Alan Branch???

[Merlin]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10091269

Check out Pat Kirwan's latest mock.

I have to be honest if things happen as he suggest's in the top 5, I'll stick my face into a fan! (that's switched on at full power!)

I hate it, even though their is alot of talk about teams trading up with Detroit, I doubt Cleveland would do it, especially with two potential franchise QB's available, on top of which, we all know it would cost the earth for a team outside the top 5 to do it. Cleveland could just sit their and wait for the runner-up in the QB battle.

Arizona could move up with us, a LT is a "need" after letting Leonard Davis leave to Dallas, but to then have us picking Branch?????

PS, when did Luke Petitgout, Jeff Garcia, Chris Simms Bruce Gradkowski and Jake Plummer leave us for Arizona...lols


1. **Oakland: Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech -- The Raiders have lots of needs, but as long as quarterback is one of them, they have to respond by selecting the guy with the great deep ball, JaMarcus Russell. By passing on the opportunity to get Schaub in a trade, it looks like a QB -- BUT if the Raiders secure a QB like Josh McCown from the Lions, then here comes Calvin Johnson. Let's go with Johnson, the top-rated player on most draft boards!

2. **Cleveland (after trade with Detroit): JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU -- The Lions here could take Russell, Gaines Adams or move down. It would not surprise me if it is a swap with Cleveland.

3. **Detroit (after trade with Cleveland): Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson -- Now that they've traded down, the Lions could go in a lot of directions. I think they'll sit right here and take a quarterback later in the draft.

4. **Arizona (after trade with Tampa Bay): Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin -- No reason to move up if Calvin Johnson is gone at the top spot, so now they let the draft come to them. Joe Thomas is a solid pick even though they have Luke Petitgout, but they will seriously talk about Brady Quinn even though they have Jeff Garcia, Chris Simms Bruce Gradkowski and maybe Jake Plummer. I say they move down one spot with the Cardinals and let them takes Thomas.

5. **Tampa Bay (after trade with Arizona): Alan Branch, NT, Michigan -- Quinn is still out there, but I say the Bucs are thinking Branch. The massive Michigan nose tackle is a rare talent and the Tampa Bay defense needs an injection of youth.

[zCaddyz]

boo-no....

[-black]

the Bucs would either take Landry or Okoye....dont worry

[Watchman]

Can't see them taking Branch, not at all.

[Caddy]

After Branch's workouts, the earliest he should expect to go is 6 to the Redskins. And at this point in time that is a reach. In that particular situation I would expect the Bucs to take Joe Thomas.

[Watchman]

After Branch's workouts, the earliest he should expect to go is 6 to the Redskins. And at this point in time that is a reach. In that particular situation I would expect the Bucs to take Joe Thomas.

I agree, I can't see the Bucs passing on a franchise LT. I think Thomas is #2 on their board after CJ.

[Caddy]

I know UT and S are a need and all. But who doesn't want their very own Walter Jones or Orlando Pace or *insert franchise left tackle here*.

[etk]

I know UT and S are a need and all. But who doesn't want their very own Walter Jones or Orlando Pace or *insert franchise left tackle here*.

Who doesn't want their very own Kevin Williams, Warren Sapp, Tommie Harris, etc.

The same could be said about any position, and once again, LT is not the most important position on our line.....

That would be a great trade, but we would never take Branch, I can say that in confidence. I don't buy all this workout crap either, his stock is not dropping, teams know what kind of player he is. You put a NT in a T & shorts and he's not going to impress you, put on the tape and you see impressive quickness for a big guy. We don't need him though, and Okoye is higher on our board I assume.

[Merlin]

I know UT and S are a need and all. But who doesn't want their very own Walter Jones or Orlando Pace or *insert franchise left tackle here*.Notre Dame "homer alert!"......Or Tom Brady, Payton Manning *insert franchise QB ;-)

I think Okoye would be much better suited in our system, I've never been overly impressed when I've seen Branch.

[Caddy]

I can't see how you can argue that an UT is more important than a Franchise LT. Anyone would tell you that LT is valued higher than UT on any team. It is the responsibility of the LT to block the highest quality pass rushers in the NFL. Whether he is protecting the QB's blind side or not is irrelevant, you need to keep your Freeney's away from the QB at all costs.

[etk]

I can't see how you can argue that an UT is more important than a Franchise LT. Anyone would tell you that LT is valued higher than UT on any team. It is the responsibility of the LT to block the highest quality pass rushers in the NFL. Whether he is protecting the QB's blind side or not is irrelevant, you need to keep your Freeney's away from the QB at all costs.

When the difference in importance is very small, and one position is a bigger need than another, it justifies a pick. I rate Okoye higher than Thomas too, but I'm not sure how our coaches feel, but we all know Gruden loves Okoye. There is also the matter of us needing to add youth to our defense, and Okoye being the youngest prospect ever (I think).

It's funny how you don't just call it a LT, you call it a Franchise LT, as if that makes it sound more important. From now on I'm calling Okoye a Franchise UT! Do you ever hear someone call a RT a Franchise RT. No, and as long as Simms is our QB, LT is our less valuable OT position, and thus not worthy of the "franchise" coinage. Trueblood is our franchise T, are we that greedy that we need 2, when we don't even have a frickin pass rush!

Your other argument about how the best pass rusher is a RE is not true either. There are plenty of great LEs in the league, it's almost equal. We used to face Peppers, Kerney & Will Allen twice a year, and they are all LEs.

[Caddy]

Most people will argue against what you are saying. Sure you have some valid points, but it is a known fact that teams generally line up their best pass rusher at RE.

And in regards to the "franchise" term. Seeing as though only LT and QB are mentioned with the word franchise as a preface, recgonises how important it can be to a team.

[Merlin]

When the difference in importance is very small, and one position is a bigger need than another, it justifies a pick. I rate Okoye higher than Thomas too, but I'm not sure how our coaches feel, but we all know Gruden loves Okoye. There is also the matter of us needing to add youth to our defense, and Okoye being the youngest prospect ever (I think).

It's funny how you don't just call it a LT, you call it a Franchise LT, as if that makes it sound more important. From now on I'm calling Okoye a Franchise UT! Do you ever hear someone call a RT a Franchise RT. No, and as long as Simms is our QB, LT is our less valuable OT position, and thus not worthy of the "franchise" coinage. Trueblood is our franchise T, are we that greedy that we need 2, when we don't even have a frickin pass rush!


Your other argument about how the best pass rusher is a RE is not true either. There are plenty of great LEs in the league, it's almost equal. We used to face Peppers, Kerney & Will Allen twice a year, and they are all LEs.Maybe Simms is no longer "our QB"?

I would agree however, I see our D-line as an area of need, especially over our O-line at least, we may look to address the C position at some point, though it will depend on the talent available as to which day it will be?

As for the term Franchise, I would agree with 24C24's interpritation of it.

[Caddy]

Maybe Simms is no longer "our QB"?

I would agree however, I see our D-line as an area of need, especially over our O-line at least, we may look to address the C position at some point, though it will depend on the talent available as to which day it will be?

As for the term Franchise, I would agree with 24C24's interpritation of it.

Games are won and lost in the trenches so it would not surprise me at all if we go O-Line/D-Line with our 1st 3 picks.

It can easily be argued that we need upgrades at LT, C, DE and DT and we could take any number of players at any number of picks.

[zCaddyz]

I dont think we will take a branch or joe thomas but it will be eather adams or the 19 year-old kid or maybe even anderson "bust"

[Watchman]

... and as long as Simms is our QB, LT is our less valuable OT position, and thus not worthy of the "franchise" coinage.

You are making the assumption that Simms wins the starting QB spot. I'm betting Garcia does.

[etk]

Teams use the term "franchise for RBs, QBs & Tackles. We already have a franchise tackle by the name of Jeremy Trueblood.

You speak as if we need an upgrade at all those positions. The truth is that we don't need an "upgrade" at DE or DT, we need an instant-impact bonafide starter. We have one of the weakest defensive lines in the league right now, and our offensive line is improving. We rarely blitz, so we have to spend 2-3 early picks on DLine. We can't afford to "upgrade" our offensive tackles when they are fine as it is.

Teams line up their bast pass rusher wherever they want to. There is no "dominant" side to the DE position, it depends on the system where certain players go. If you are implying that we need Thomas to block the speed rushers at RE, you will be sadly disappointed because he doesn't have the arm length to consistently block guys like Freeney.

For those of you don't think/want Simms to be our starter, just do me a favour and please look at the facts. Look at what he has done for our team when healthy, and look at the other factors that were involved, like OLine, supporting cast, age, etc. He has already proven himself as starting caliber, and he is still young and maturing.

[Caddy]

An upgrade means we need something better than what we have, how is that incorrect.

[Booger]

Teams use the term "franchise for RBs, QBs & Tackles. We already have a franchise tackle by the name of Jeremy Trueblood.

You speak as if we need an upgrade at all those positions. The truth is that we don't need an "upgrade" at DE or DT, we need an instant-impact bonafide starter. We have one of the weakest defensive lines in the league right now, and our offensive line is improving. We rarely blitz, so we have to spend 2-3 early picks on DLine. We can't afford to "upgrade" our offensive tackles when they are fine as it is.

Teams line up their bast pass rusher wherever they want to. There is no "dominant" side to the DE position, it depends on the system where certain players go. If you are implying that we need Thomas to block the speed rushers at RE, you will be sadly disappointed because he doesn't have the arm length to consistently block guys like Freeney.

For those of you don't think/want Simms to be our starter, just do me a favour and please look at the facts. Look at what he has done for our team when healthy, and look at the other factors that were involved, like OLine, supporting cast, age, etc. He has already proven himself as starting caliber, and he is still young and maturing.

Jeremy Trueblood is not a "franchise" OT. He was considered by many a reach in round 2 of last year, and we will be lucky if he becomes an above average starter at his position.

On a league-wide basis, I think that our d-line would still rank above our OL. In saying that, our OL has an infusion of young talent, where our DL does not. It comes down to value, wherein I would prefer Joe Thomas and Anthony Spencer over Gaines Adams and Tony Ugoh.

You call our OT's fine as they are, we have Trueblood (unproven starter), Petitgout (proven starter with injury concerns), Anthony Davis (below average starter, good depth player) and Torrin Tucker (I never want to see him in a regular season game). I dont see how that group is any better than our DL group. The bottom line is that we need help at OT, DE, and DT. All of those needs can be addressed on the first day of the draft.

As far as Simms is concerned, after the 2005 season, I think that almost everybody was ready to crown him the starting QB for the next 5-10 years. But the fact remains that he was downright awful last season, and regressed from his play in 2005. We have more than enough reason to be sceptical about his ability to be a starting QB.

[Merlin]

Teams use the term "franchise for RBs, QBs & Tackles. We already have a franchise tackle by the name of Jeremy Trueblood.

You speak as if we need an upgrade at all those positions. The truth is that we don't need an "upgrade" at DE or DT, we need an instant-impact bonafide starter. We have one of the weakest defensive lines in the league right now, and our offensive line is improving. We rarely blitz, so we have to spend 2-3 early picks on DLine. We can't afford to "upgrade" our offensive tackles when they are fine as it is.

Teams line up their bast pass rusher wherever they want to. There is no "dominant" side to the DE position, it depends on the system where certain players go. If you are implying that we need Thomas to block the speed rushers at RE, you will be sadly disappointed because he doesn't have the arm length to consistently block guys like Freeney.

For those of you don't think/want Simms to be our starter, just do me a favour and please look at the facts. Look at what he has done for our team when healthy, and look at the other factors that were involved, like OLine, supporting cast, age, etc. He has already proven himself as starting caliber, and he is still young and maturing.If Simms proves to be our man, I will be the first one to hand out the party balloons, I don't have a problem with that in the slightest, if our QB succeeds our team is likely to be succeeding as well, or at the very least, proving to be competitive, I hope he can prove me wrong, but first he'll need to win the opportunity to do it in camp.

I have already voiced my opinions concerning the needs surrounding our D-line, and I hope we get the chance to really address "it" in the draft.

As for Thomas and his physical "imperfections" he's played with them all his life, and they've made him into a possible top 5 draft pick, I don't see his physical attributes as a sign of impending failure, or success, if he gets the job done, and proves it week in and week out on the field (where it matters)as a Coach, I'm interested, but right now, I don't think a T is our first priority.

[Watchman]

For those of you don't think/want Simms to be our starter, just do me a favour and please look at the facts. Look at what he has done for our team when healthy, and look at the other factors that were involved, like OLine, supporting cast, age, etc. He has already proven himself as starting caliber, and he is still young and maturing.

"Want"? I "want" the Bucs to have some stability at the QB position. I "want" the Bucs to have a QB that actually forces D's to respect the passing game. I want opposing d-linemen to actually feel they need to rush the passer as opposed to simply stopping and raising their arms to block a pass attempt. When healthy (in 2005) Simms was ok, he didn't set the world on fire. He was the 19th rated passer in the league.

The facts are that Simms was ok in 2005 and so freaking bad in 2006 that had he remainded healthy he might have found the bench anyway the way he was playing.

If the Bucs were so convinced I imagine they would have locked Simms up with a long term deal. Instead they gave him a 2 year deal and brought Garcia in for very similar money, and traded for Jake Plummer. The fact is that Simms has never consistently shown that he is the long term answer at QB, and the Bucs moves this offseason seem to indicate that they aren't real sure either.

At the end of the day I wanted Simms to be the guy, but he has shown that he can be.

[etk]

An upgrade means we need something better than what we have, how is that incorrect.

We have a wide-set hole at DE & DT. That deserves more than an upgrade. Do you honestly think we can get by this season with Rice, Spires, Hovan & Wyms, with no depth outside of Kevin Carter??? There's no ******' way, that line is horrible! We are a team that prides ourselves on defense and the Tampa 2, but we won't get more than 25 sacks with that group....

On the other hand, our offensive line situation is adequate. We have starters that can do the job, and we have made the playoffs before with a mediocre line. We are much younger on our OLine and deeper. An upgrade would be great at 4/5 positions, but not when it sacrifices a position of absolute need. Trueblood is obviously not a "franchise" T, but he is our RT of the future, so I guess that technically makes him one, even if he's not great at all. Are you guys ready to throw Petitgout in the trash before he even got a chance? If not, is it worth drafting a "future" OT when we can do it another year without sacrificing our pass rush? If not, is it worth drafting Thomas to be our LG?

I just can't see us drafting an OT and sacrificing those other needs. We used to be a team that goes BPA, but lately we are drafting based on need, and it has worked better. CJ is the only exception IMO, because he is instant-offense and a gamebreaker. If he is unavailable, we will probably draft Okoye, because Wyms is injury-prone and we have poor depth. Carter will slide out to DE or possibly get cut. I don't think we will take Adams over Okoye, because we have Charles Grant in the back of our minds.

[ks_perfection]

Trueblood isn't a franchise Tackle. You have to be great at the position to qualify as one, being decent or above average doesn't cut it. Petitgout is an old veteran, he's already proven what he can and can't do, playing on a new team won't result in major changes at this stage of his career.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

We took two OL last year. It wouldn't be a great move to use another first round pick on one. We've never had great offensive lines, and we've gotten by just fine. We just need adequacy from that position. On the other hand, Defensive line might be the most important part of a Cover Two defense. Joe Thomas is a great player, but we have more important things to upgrade right now.

[etk]

Amobi Okoye ran a 4.88 at his pro day, with a 4.44 short shuttle (301 lbs). Sounds like a perfect Tampa 2 UT to me :)

Also from Louisville, Nate Harris ran a 4.46 and a 36 inch vertical. William *** had a 38½-inch vertical jump, 9-foot-10 long jump, 4.15 short shuttle, 6.89 three-cone drill and 16 bench presses.

I would love all 3 of these guys in Bucs unis. Okoye is obviously a first-rounder, but Harris could slip to the 4th, and *** could be had very late. They're all perfect for our system, I'm lovin the Louisville connection!

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Amobi Okoye ran a 4.88 at his pro day, with a 4.44 short shuttle (301 lbs). Sounds like a perfect Tampa 2 UT to me :)

*Drooling*

[Caddy]

Amobi Okoye ran a 4.88 at his pro day, with a 4.44 short shuttle (301 lbs). Sounds like a perfect Tampa 2 UT to me :)

Also from Louisville, Nate Harris ran a 4.46 and a 36 inch vertical. William *** had a 38½-inch vertical jump, 9-foot-10 long jump, 4.15 short shuttle, 6.89 three-cone drill and 16 bench presses.

I would love all 3 of these guys in Bucs unis. Okoye is obviously a first-rounder, but Harris could slip to the 4th, and *** could be had very late. They're all perfect for our system, I'm lovin the Louisville connection!

Measurables aren't everything. The guy did only average 2.5 sacks a season. Imagine if he had that extra little bit of production.

[TRJ997]

Kirwan changed his pick to Jamaal Anderson. Better than Branch, but I still don't like the pick.

[ks_perfection]

I'd rather have Quinn than either of those 2.

[-black]

Geeze man, why do Buc fans want a OT or a QB over our defensive needs? I just dont get it. CJ is obviously an anamoly, but how can we not all be in unity that defense is our top priority?

[Booger]

Geeze man, why do Buc fans want a OT or a QB over our defensive needs? I just dont get it. CJ is obviously an anamoly, but how can we not all be in unity that defense is our top priority?

Because we have the #4 overall pick, and most fans would not be satisfied with a Gaines Adams or an Alan Branch. Unless it is Julius Peppers or Mario Williams, a good DL prospect just isnt sexy enough to take #4 overall.

Especially considering the depth at DL in this draft, most people would take a potential "franchise" LT or QB or WR in round one, and three defensive players in rounds 2 and 3. Our defensive needs would be well addressed, and we would have a cornerstone piece to add to our offense.

In my opinion, the value just isnt there to take a defensive player at #4 overall. If CJ is gone, and we cant trade down, I think that Thomas or Quinn should be selected.

[Watchman]

Geeze man, why do Buc fans want a OT or a QB over our defensive needs? I just dont get it. CJ is obviously an anamoly, but how can we not all be in unity that defense is our top priority?

Because the Bucs offense was much worse than the Bucs defense.

[-black]

Because the Bucs offense was much worse than the Bucs defense.

the offense also had three rookies in important positions (QB, G, T) while the defense will only continue to get worse with age....the offense with their youth can only get better

when was the last time we dent defense with our first pick in the 1st round?

[Watchman]

the offense also had three rookies in important positions (QB, G, T) while the defense will only continue to get worse with age....the offense with their youth can only get better

when was the last time we dent defense with our first pick in the 1st round?

McFarland I believe. I personally think CJ or Thomas will make more of an impact to the team with the 4th pick. However, if both are gone I'm hoping for some help on the d-line. If there was an elite DT or DE prospect then it would be a no brainer, but I don't see that as being the case.

[etk]

What depth on the defensive line in this draft?

The way I see it, Okoye & McDonald are both very good UT prospects. After those 2, there's a bunch of guys with overrated stock because of a lack of talent overall. I'd grade this UT class a D. If we don't get Okoye, we are entering this season with a very poor group of UTs.

At DE, there's Adams & Anderson, and neither of them are elite DE prospects. After those 2, there's Crowder, Abiamiri, Johnson, etc. Nothing special at all.

On a different note, there is major talk heating up about us trading up for CJ. Obviously our coaches are not thrilled about Joe Thomas or any other prospects. If we don't like Thomas that much, we won't take him over a true need.

[Booger]

On a different note, there is major talk heating up about us trading up for CJ. Obviously our coaches are not thrilled about Joe Thomas or any other prospects. If we don't like Thomas that much, we won't take him over a true need.

Yeah, cause media speculation classifies as "major talk heating up about us trading up for CJ".

And this leads you to conclude that "obviously our coaches are not thrilled about Joe Thomas or any other prospects".

Honestly, you cant believe anything anybody says this time of year. Media members are as speculative as you and I, and anything Gruden/Kiffen/Allen say about any prospect should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

In my opinion, there is no chance that the Bucs trade up to #2. We would have to give up one or more day 1 picks, and no WR is worth doing so (not even CJ). I can finally admit that CJ will very likely be selected if he is there at #4, no matter who else is available (Joe Thomas included), but there will be no trading up come draft day.

[Booger]

What depth on the defensive line in this draft?

The way I see it, Okoye & McDonald are both very good UT prospects. After those 2, there's a bunch of guys with overrated stock because of a lack of talent overall. I'd grade this UT class a D. If we don't get Okoye, we are entering this season with a very poor group of UTs.

At DE, there's Adams & Anderson, and neither of them are elite DE prospects. After those 2, there's Crowder, Abiamiri, Johnson, etc. Nothing special at all.



I'll give you the UT class is weak, although I think that guys like Carriker and Crowder could project well in that position. Somebody like Harrell, McDonald, Thomas, or Mebane could be had in round 3 or 4.

As for DE's, Adams, Anderson, Moss, and Carriker are all pretty clear cut top 20 picks. The 2nd tier of guys, including the likes of Johnson, Spencer, Crowder, Abiamiri, Woodley, Moses, etc. are solid, yet unspectacular.

I would have no problem taking two of those guys in round 2.

If we go offense in round 1 (CJ, JT, or Quinn), we could still end up with 3 DL on day 1.

[-black]

your seriously underated Charles Johnson

[etk]

It's becoming more obvious the player Tampa Bay would consider moving up for is Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson. Like many teams, the Bucs were blown away by Johnson's pro day workout in Atlanta. Jon Gruden couldn't mask his excitement about the possibility of fitting Johnson into a Bucs uniform.
-- St. Petersburg Times

I don't think any of those UTs you listed are competent enough for us. That 2nd-tier of DEs are not far from the 1st, so I wouldn't mind waiting til the 2nd to take a DE.

[TRJ997]

What depth on the defensive line in this draft?

The way I see it, Okoye & McDonald are both very good UT prospects. After those 2, there's a bunch of guys with overrated stock because of a lack of talent overall. I'd grade this UT class a D. If we don't get Okoye, we are entering this season with a very poor group of UTs.



I think that Okoye is also being overrated because of the lack of overall DT depth in this draft. He seems more like a mid 1st round prospect who's moved into the top 10 because there is so much need for a disruptive UT in the NFL. To take him at 4 is a reach, but If he turns out to be the next Sapp, then who cares where we take him.

[Booger]

It's becoming more obvious the player Tampa Bay would consider moving up for is Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson. Like many teams, the Bucs were blown away by Johnson's pro day workout in Atlanta. Jon Gruden couldn't mask his excitement about the possibility of fitting Johnson into a Bucs uniform.
-- St. Petersburg Times

I don't think any of those UTs you listed are competent enough for us. That 2nd-tier of DEs are not far from the 1st, so I wouldn't mind waiting til the 2nd to take a DE.

Exactly, some local newspaper is speculating that if the Bucs moved up, it would be for CJ. I cant argue that. And I am sure that everybody on the planet was impressed by CJ's workouts, and that every team would love to have CJ on their team. Gruden and the Bucs are no exception. This hardly suggests that the Bucs are anywhere near considering a trade-up. The Bucs have given up way too many draft picks as of late (Keyshawn, Gruden, Yatta), they need all of their draft picks.

I agree with you on the DE's, which is why we should use our #4 pick on offense. We have an elite pick, which should be used on a potential elite player. Guys like Adams, Okoye, and Branch just dont scream elite player.

[Watchman]

It's becoming more obvious the player Tampa Bay would consider moving up for is Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson. Like many teams, the Bucs were blown away by Johnson's pro day workout in Atlanta. Jon Gruden couldn't mask his excitement about the possibility of fitting Johnson into a Bucs uniform.
-- St. Petersburg Times

I don't think any of those UTs you listed are competent enough for us. That 2nd-tier of DEs are not far from the 1st, so I wouldn't mind waiting til the 2nd to take a DE.

Is that the article where Gruden spoke highly about Quinn, Russell, Peterson, Thomas, and CJ?

[etk]

I don't think Joe Thomas is an elite pick. There's only 4 elite prospects this year IMO: CJ, Russell, AD & Landry. 9/10 years there is a better OT prospect than Joe Thomas, next year there will be at least 2. Houston may be willing to trade up if Thomas is still on the board. Wouldn't you agree that trading down and selecting Okoye would be much better than taking Thomas? Maybe Buffalo will trade up for Peterson, we can really try to maximize our selection.

In the words of BeansDooma, we will end up with CJ or Okoye one way or the other!

[-black]

yep

just because Joe Thomas is the best rated OT in this years class does not mean he is elite and an All Pro OT for the bext 10 years....those type of OL usually go top 3, no questions asked. He is simply the best prospect OT this year

[Booger]

I don't think Joe Thomas is an elite pick. There's only 4 elite prospects this year IMO: CJ, Russell, AD & Landry. 9/10 years there is a better OT prospect than Joe Thomas, next year there will be at least 2. Houston may be willing to trade up if Thomas is still on the board. Wouldn't you agree that trading down and selecting Okoye would be much better than taking Thomas? Maybe Buffalo will trade up for Peterson, we can really try to maximize our selection.

In the words of BeansDooma, we will end up with CJ or Okoye one way or the other!

A lot of people will disagree with you on Joe Thomas, but you are entitled.

As far as elite prospects, I would personally throw Peterson and Quinn into the mix, but can certainly understand the knocks on Quinn.

I like your question about trading down, and I would certainly take the combination of Okoye and Weddle (insert whatever 2nd round prospect you wish) over Joe Thomas. Aside from staying put and taking CJ, my next choice would be to trade down in the top 12 picks, and pick up at least another 2nd round pick.

Look at that, we agree on something.

[Caddy]

I don't think Joe Thomas is an elite pick. There's only 4 elite prospects this year IMO: CJ, Russell, AD & Landry. 9/10 years there is a better OT prospect than Joe Thomas, next year there will be at least 2. Houston may be willing to trade up if Thomas is still on the board. Wouldn't you agree that trading down and selecting Okoye would be much better than taking Thomas? Maybe Buffalo will trade up for Peterson, we can really try to maximize our selection.

In the words of BeansDooma, we will end up with CJ or Okoye one way or the other!

You really think that Jake Long and Sam Baker are substantially better than Joe Thomas. Thomas is an elite prospect within this years draft and I think giving Landry that title is a bit of a reach. Sure he is a great prospect, but he is not of Sean Taylors potential coming out of college.

I believe the Bucs would take Thomas in a heart beat if CJ were unavailable. You can't get good LT's in Free Agency. Petitgout is fine, but for all we know he could be the next Steussie. Gaines Adams probably has a better chance of being drafted than Okoye does if we stay put.

[etk]

*claps hands vigorously*

I did mention Peterson (AD), and Quinn is close to an elite prospect, depending on the system and team. Truthfully he could be a good QB, but I don't like the idea of him on our team, and I have a personal vendetta against ND & their players. Any other college fan does.......

[Booger]

*
I did mention Peterson (AD)

Oops, my bad.

[etk]

You really think that Jake Long and Sam Baker are substantially better than Joe Thomas. Thomas is an elite prospect within this years draft and I think giving Landry that title is a bit of a reach. Sure he is a great prospect, but he is not of Sean Taylors potential coming out of college.

I believe the Bucs would take Thomas in a heart beat if CJ were unavailable. You can't get good LT's in Free Agency. Petitgout is fine, but for all we know he could be the next Steussie. Gaines Adams probably has a better chance of being drafted than Okoye does if we stay put.

First bold: Absolutely! I think Staley will end up better than Thomas as well.

Landry: He is a complete S, and safeties are becoming valuable leaders on defense. I think it's rubbish (lol) to say a safety is not worth a top 5-10 pick, and Landry is better at his position than almost any other prospect this year.

I don't believe we will take Thomas because we don't need him. I believe that our outlook on the T position for the next 2 years will be to wait for great value. That could be this year, if we trade down and get Thomas or get Staley in the 2nd. If not, I am content with waiting 1-2 years to draft a future "franchise" LT. I think Petitgout is a capable starter, and will be for the next 2-3 years. Give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to draft a replacement, when our other needs have been addressed.

2nd bold: We will not draft Adams ahead of Okoye just because one might not be rated as highly as the other. We are going to draft the player that we want, and it looks pretty apparent that we like and want Okoye more than Adams. It's not like we are worried that draft experts think Okoye isn't worth a top 5 pick, and we're not scared of getting a bad grade.

[Caddy]

etk all I'm hearing from you is a substantial amount of "I think" and "I believe". At least 5 times. Personal opinions are great, we all have them.

[etk]

etk all I'm hearing from you is a substantial amount of "I think" and "I believe". At least 5 times. Personal opinions are great, we all have them.

So don't listen to me, I don't give a rats ass. What are your opinions, anyway? Whatever Scott tells you?

[Caddy]

Lol, it is amazing how personal people take things sometimes. Why do you make the conclusion that my opinions are Scotts opinions? I just don't make that connection..

[etk]

Lol, it is amazing how personal people take things sometimes. Why do you make the conclusion that my opinions are Scotts opinions? I just don't make that connection..

If you want to attack me, at least have the decency to take what you give.

I make that conclusion because all of your opinions on players sound like they're coming straight from his mouth. How much American college football is at your hands in Australia? Not much I assume, so where are your resources to form your own conclusions on players? None of your statements are ever bold or unique, you state the obvious.......

[Watchman]

yep

just because Joe Thomas is the best rated OT in this years class does not mean he is elite and an All Pro OT for the bext 10 years....those type of OL usually go top 3, no questions asked. He is simply the best prospect OT this year

You don't think there is a very good chance that Joe Thomas goes in the first 3 picks?

[Caddy]

Yet another person dismissing my knowledge due to geographical proximity, typical. Our opinions are our own, what makes yours so much better than mine. The answer is nothing. Neither of us get paid to scout players, realistically all we are doing is speculating.

And regarding how much college football we get. A little thing called Pay TV can cater for any need..

[Tampa 2 4 life]

You don't think there is a very good chance that Joe Thomas goes in the first 3 picks?

I have him pegged at 5.

[Watchman]

I have him pegged at 5.

Yeah, maybe a little higher, but I don't think he'll go any lower. I also don't think he'll get past the Bucs at #4 if CJ is off the board.

[-black]

You don't think there is a very good chance that Joe Thomas goes in the first 3 picks?

oh I think he has a very good chance, but guys like Odgen, Pace, Boseli, they were locks to the top 3, no questions asked, simply because they were elite....JT is good, im not knocking him like he is garbage, but he is not in their category when it comes to prospects....he simply is the best OT prospect in the draft....just like D'Brick was last year

[Caddy]

I think in regards to Joe Thomas you also have to factor in the needs of the teams picking in the Top 3. The Raiders/Lions/Browns and even the Bucs all have other needs which need to be addressed and thus Thomas will possibly fall to the Cards.

[-black]

I think in regards to Joe Thomas you also have to factor in the needs of the teams picking in the Top 3. The Raiders/Lions/Browns and even the Bucs all have other needs which need to be addressed and thus Thomas will possibly fall to the Cards.



lol the Raiders OL was HORRIBLE
the Lions OL gave up like 70 sacks
The Browns OL was one of the worsein the league

THEY HAVE NEEDS AT OL....if Pace, Boseli, or one of them was in this years draft, the would be taken in the top 3.

and thanks for agrreing that the Bucs have needs other than the OL :) Go defense

[etk]

lol the Raiders OL was HORRIBLE
the Lions OL gave up like 70 sacks
The Browns OL was one of the worsein the league

THEY HAVE NEEDS AT OL....if Pace, Boseli, or one of them was in this years draft, the would be taken in the top 3.

and thanks for agrreing that the Bucs have needs other than the OL :) Go defense

It's true, all of those teams realize that there are better players available to draft, even though they need help on their line. Supposedly Detroit wants to trade down and take Willis, possibly an indicator of what they think about Thomas? Thomas will probably end up in Arizona, possibly by trade, or at #5.

[Merlin]

Yet another person dismissing my knowledge due to geographical proximity, typical. Our opinions are our own, what makes yours so much better than mine. The answer is nothing. Neither of us get paid to scout players, realistically all we are doing is speculating.

And regarding how much college football we get. A little thing called Pay TV can cater for any need..Welcome to the club...lols

[Watchman]

I think in regards to Joe Thomas you also have to factor in the needs of the teams picking in the Top 3. The Raiders/Lions/Browns and even the Bucs all have other needs which need to be addressed and thus Thomas will possibly fall to the Cards.

Similar to the best player in the draft being available at #4, but I don't think he will be.

[Caddy]

Similar to the best player in the draft being available at #4, but I don't think he will be.

That is a valid point. Most people believe he is the genuine best player in the draft. But he still has a good chance of being available at #4.

[Booger]

lol the Raiders OL was HORRIBLE
the Lions OL gave up like 70 sacks
The Browns OL was one of the worsein the league

THEY HAVE NEEDS AT OL....if Pace, Boseli, or one of them was in this years draft, the would be taken in the top 3.

and thanks for agrreing that the Bucs have needs other than the OL :) Go defense

The Raiders have a ton of $ invested in Gallery and the Lions in Backus.

The only way he gets past the Browns is if they want one of the QB's instead.

[-black]

Similar to the best player in the draft being available at #4, but I don't think he will be.



not at all similar. The 3 teams do not have a need for a 1st round WR. Try again

[-black]

The Raiders have a ton of $ invested in Gallery and the Lions in Backus.

The only way he gets past the Browns is if they want one of the QB's instead.

Gallery is their RT, and isnt Det the same franchise that put top 10 money into the WR position for 3 out of 4 years? it never stopped them before so thats a bad excuse. If Pace, Boseli, or Oden was in this years draft, he would go top 3, ZERO questions asked. Thomas is prospect wise not on their level or comparable.

[-black]

It seems some posters feel if we keep saying "oh he is the next ____<insert Hall of Fame LT's name" then he will end up being that.

[Booger]

If Pace, Boseli, or Oden was in this years draft, he would go top 3, ZERO questions asked. Thomas is prospect wise not on their level or comparable.

No arguments here, he is not in the same class as Pace, Boselli, or Ogden, but those are the three best players at the LT position over the last 15 years.

Just because Russell isnt Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, or John Elway, doesnt mean that he isnt worthy of the top overall pick.

[Watchman]

not at all similar. The 3 teams do not have a need for a 1st round WR. Try again

I don't need to try again, because it is very similar. CJ and Thomas are both regarded as top 5 picks in this years draft. CJ is generally the concensus best player in the draft, however each could go anywhere within the top 5 depending on the teams needs. OAK could be without Moss and Porter in the not so distant future, DET despite its recent drafts could use help at the WR position, and so could CLE. All of the top 5 teams could use OL help as well. 4 of the top 5 could use a QB. CJ falling to 4 or Thomas falling to 5 is very similar, the needs of the team in large part is going to dictate where the top prospects are drafted within the top 5.

Hell many think Okoye will go at 4 purely based on need.

[Caddy]

It seems some posters feel if we keep saying "oh he is the next ____<insert Hall of Fame LT's name" then he will end up being that.

I am pretty sure that everyone on these message boards no the draft is a relative crapshoot thus making your comment void. I think you are mistaking optimism for stupidity.

[etk]

Just because Russell isnt Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, or John Elway, doesnt mean that he isnt worthy of the top overall pick.

Russell is a pretty damn rare prospect, I mean guys like Mayock say he would enter the league with the strongest arm, period. He has pretty much unlimited range, off his back foot!

Joe Thomas, on the other hand, is an above-average first round tackle. Worth a top 15 pick, but not a prospect we won't forget.

[Caddy]

Russell is a pretty damn rare prospect, I mean guys like Mayock say he would enter the league with the strongest arm, period. He has pretty much unlimited range, off his back foot!

Joe Thomas, on the other hand, is an above-average first round tackle. Worth a top 15 pick, but not a prospect we won't forget.

I think Thomas is a Top 5 prospect, no way he slips out of that group. With the Lions, Browns, Bucs and definitely Cards being possibilities.

[etk]

I think Thomas is a Top 5 prospect, no way he slips out of that group. With the Lions, Browns, Bucs and definitely Cards being possibilities.

He will go top 5, but his talent range is 10-15 IMO. His value is definitely top 10 because of his position, but I think Ryan Kalil is a better offensive line prospect, and Grubbs is not far behind Thomas either.

[Caddy]

You say tomato I say tomato.. Obviously doesn't have the same effect when I say it online, but you get what I mean..

[-black]

I don't need to try again, because it is very similar. CJ and Thomas are both regarded as top 5 picks in this years draft. CJ is generally the concensus best player in the draft, however each could go anywhere within the top 5 depending on the teams needs. OAK could be without Moss and Porter in the not so distant future, DET despite its recent drafts could use help at the WR position, and so could CLE. All of the top 5 teams could use OL help as well. 4 of the top 5 could use a QB. CJ falling to 4 or Thomas falling to 5 is very similar, the needs of the team in large part is going to dictate where the top prospects are drafted within the top 5.

Hell many think Okoye will go at 4 purely based on need.

no, its not similar at ALL. If Oakland gets rid of Moss, then CJ WILL be the pick. None of the teams in the top 3 have a pressing need for a WR, but on the other hand each team in the top 3 has a pressing need on the OL. Even saying the best OT in the draft and possibly the best WR this decade is "similar" is ludicrous, its not even a comparable situation. JT could be available at 5 because those teams would rather go a different position EVEN though they have a need for OL help. CJ could be available at 4 because they have no need at WR and he COULD be the pick simply because he is the BPA. Put any WR prospect in this years draft, and he could possibly fall to 4. Put Boseli or Pace in this years draft and he is a lock for the top 3.

Just because Russell isnt Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, or John Elway, doesnt mean that he isnt worthy of the top overall pick.

exactly, but Im not the one hyping Joe Thomas to be the next "cant miss franchise LT for the next 15 years that we cant pass on" either. If he was in the class of Pace or Odgen I'd be all for taking him. But not taking a solid LT when we have more pressing needs on defense

[etk]

You say tomato I say tomato.. Obviously doesn't have the same effect when I say it online, but you get what I mean..

Obviously, nobody is forced to agree with my opinions (but I'll try:)), or care for them for that matter. It does help to hear negative opinions on highly ranked players, because one can get a false idea on just how good some players are. Just because Scott says Joe Thomas is an elite prospect and Gaines Adams is the best DE doesn't mean those are the players we should want to draft. That's what makes the draft so fun, not everyone thinks the same about the top prospects (CJ excluded)!

Who are the highly-ranked players that you guys see underachiving or *gasp* busting?!

[etk]

no, its not similar at ALL. If Oakland gets rid of Moss, then CJ WILL be the pick. None of the teams in the top 3 have a pressing need for a WR, but on the other hand each team in the top 3 has a pressing need on the OL. Even saying the best OT in the draft and possibly the best WR this decade is "similar" is ludicrous, its not even a comparable situation. JT could be available at 5 because those teams would rather go a different position EVEN though they have a need for OL help. CJ could be available at 4 because they have no need at WR and he COULD be the pick simply because he is the BPA. Put any WR prospect in this years draft, and he could possibly fall to 4. Put Boseli or Pace in this years draft and he is a lock for the top 3.





Why is it so hard for some people to call CJ the best WR prospect ever? Who was ever better?!?

I disagree with your Moss theory. It may just be media speculation, but the consensus among almost everyone now is that JR is a lock. The same thing happened with Bush last year, so CJ may be the pick, but I highly doubt it. I also doubt that Oakland will trade Moss. Kiffin is excited to coach him and thinks he can help him return to stardom. I think Kiffin is right, especially if he has his dad's bloodlines!

[Caddy]

Obviously, nobody is forced to agree with my opinions (but I'll try:)), or care for them for that matter. It does help to hear negative opinions on highly ranked players, because one can get a false idea on just how good some players are. Just because Scott says Joe Thomas is an elite prospect and Gaines Adams is the best DE doesn't mean those are the players we should want to draft. That's what makes the draft so fun, not everyone thinks the same about the top prospects (CJ excluded)!

Who are the highly-ranked players that you guys see underachiving or *gasp* busting?!

That is 100% true. If you analyse any player enough you can find weaknesses, except for CJ that is.

[Watchman]

no, its not similar at ALL. If Oakland gets rid of Moss, then CJ WILL be the pick. None of the teams in the top 3 have a pressing need for a WR, but on the other hand each team in the top 3 has a pressing need on the OL. Even saying the best OT in the draft and possibly the best WR this decade is "similar" is ludicrous, its not even a comparable situation. JT could be available at 5 because those teams would rather go a different position EVEN though they have a need for OL help. CJ could be available at 4 because they have no need at WR and he COULD be the pick simply because he is the BPA. Put any WR prospect in this years draft, and he could possibly fall to 4. Put Boseli or Pace in this years draft and he is a lock for the top 3.






Who the hell said they were similar? I said their situations were similar, i.e. teams in the top 3 passing on them based on other needs being a priority.

[ks_perfection]

Why is it so hard for some people to call CJ the best WR prospect ever? Who was ever better?!?

I disagree with your Moss theory. It may just be media speculation, but the consensus among almost everyone now is that JR is a lock. The same thing happened with Bush last year, so CJ may be the pick, but I highly doubt it. I also doubt that Oakland will trade Moss. Kiffin is excited to coach him and thinks he can help him return to stardom. I think Kiffin is right, especially if he has his dad's bloodlines!

Oakland won't trade Moss because no one else will give much up to get him.

[Watchman]

You know I always heard reports that OAK was looking to trade Moss, but I never heard what they were asking in terms of draft picks. The only rumor with any detail was Moss for Rodgers.