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nobodyinparticular
01-08-2012, 12:45 AM
The Oakland Raiders have confirmed they have hired Reggie Mckenzie as the GM to take the personnel reins after the death of Al Davis. This is common knowledge. It also appears Reggie may be released of his duties with Green Bay to take over before the end of the Packers season.

Allowing the former Raider LB to take over now would give the Raiders something they haven't had in the many years of front office and coaching changes--a head start. Al Davis has gone through many coaches and front office men, but the constant has always been the slow-moving nature in which the Raiders organization has filled its open positions. This was highlighted this offseason when the defensive coordinator position was never officially filled. Chuck Bresnahan was brought in as a "defensive assistant" while "Coach Davis" continued to interview for the coordinator position. When all Davis' options had been exhausted, Bresnahan was quietly slipped into the coordinator position. Will The new GM have multiple coaching positions to fill this offseason?

Before the spit dried off the referee's whistle as the Raiders ended another season 8-8, rumors were flying of the demise of Chuck Bresnahan as defensive coordinator. This would be a well justified move. This is a defensive team littered with premium draft picks, high priced contracts and expensive trade acquisitions. Yet the defensive team folded time and time again this season, particularly in the team's last 5 games.

What was not immediately apparent as the season ended for Oakland's football team, was the possibility that their head coach's job was not secure. Since the death of the franchise's owner, head coach Hue Jackson has been the face of the franchise. He has made multiple personnel decisions displaying seemingly unilateral power. And yet as the ink is just drying on new GM Reggie McKenzie's contract, the rumors are already flying that Hue Jackson may be on his way out. These rumors have come to a head this evening as ESPN analyst Herm Edwards is reporting that Hue Jackson will be replaced as head coach by GB assistant head coach Winston Moss.

Moss, another former Raider linebacker has been interviewed multiple times for various positions with the Raiders, most recently the head coaching vacancy which was filled by Hue Jackson last offseason.

It is easy to understand why Reggie McKenzie would want to place his stamp on the franchise, bringing in an entirely new staff from top to bottom. Very rarely does a team executive get the opportunity of a clean slate such as Oakland presents at this moment. The death of Al Davis has presented a great void of power and structure in the Oakland franchise and new owner, Mark Davis, is content to sign the checks and place competent people in positions to bring the Raiders to supremacy once again. With such a rich history in the past, talented skill position players on both sides of the ball and a black hole of power, Reggie McKenzie could build his legacy from scratch as a first time general manager. All he has to do is clean up a few loose ends in the coaching staff--Hue Jackson being one of those loose ends.

However, it doesn't make sense to get rid of the first year head coach so quickly. Hue Jackson is a man who has already established himself in the community and in this organization. Look no further than the franchise-changing trade to send 2 premium draft picks to the Cincinnati Bengals for QB Carson Palmer. This is also a man who brought the Raider offense from the doldrums of the past 5 years to a top 10 offense. The Raiders have made great strides under this leader, would it make sense to remove him in this midst of this great transition?

Beyond the improvements this team has made under Hue Jackson, it would seem this franchise is tied to Hue Jackson for the near future. Hue Jackson thought in a man whom he sees as a franchise QB and he paid a premium price to get him. Carson Palmer is Hue Jackson's man and it would be foolish to give up on him this quickly after the price that was laid to get him. Whether you like it or not, this team's fate is tied to both Hue Jackson and Carson Palmer. To remove Hue Jackson from his position, McKenzie would be jeopardizing the next 3 years of those Raider offense.

Does it make sense for McKenzie to replace Hue Jackson as head coach at this juncture? What are your thoughts?

Note: Pardon any small typos, grammatical errors or logical inconsistencies. I typed this on my iPhone and we all know about the infamous powers of autocorrect.

Raiderz4Life
01-08-2012, 01:22 AM
I'm still bitter about how the season ended but in all reality canning Hue would be a mistake. I could see him getting put on a shorter leash though, if you suck you're out. But keeping Hue would give us some continuity which we haven't had in the past 9 years or so.

VernonLawson89
01-08-2012, 03:38 AM
Hue is staying...

nepg
01-08-2012, 03:53 AM
The coaching staff they've put together in Oakland is really solid. Can't see a GM coming in and tearing that down just because he came from somewhere else. This move was made to lessen the burden on Hue Jackson so he can focus on the head coach position and what goes on on the field rather than everything.

asdf1223
01-08-2012, 04:05 AM
Mike Silver came out and said Hue's safe for now. They need a new defensive co-ordinator not a new HC in my opinion. Chuck Bresnahan makes John Marshall look like Dick Lebeau.

DBNYDP
01-08-2012, 04:11 AM
Hue Jackson shouldn't leave for the sake of the Raiders organization. He's done a pretty good job coaching his guys and if McFadden doesn't get injured this team probably makes the playoffs easy. I think he has made some bad personnel decisions but I think the hiring of a GM will allow him to focus on coaching which he has done a great job at. Raiders have had a constant carousel of coaches and replacing Jackson would not help provide continuity to this team. McKenzie landed in a pretty good I figure, the Raiders are brimming with talent and are in a very winnable even if competitive division. An offseason is going to help Palmer return to old form, and should help instill some discipline in this wild team. As a Broncos fan I think this is a scary team and I can only imagine how good it will be after a full offseason under Jackson.

BloodBrother
01-08-2012, 09:50 AM
Man, if Jackson is fired and they hire Winston Moss as coach, I'd be very worried about him taking some assistants with him to Oakland. I know Darren Perry(Packers Secondaries coach) was interviewed for the Raiders D coordinator job this past offseason and used to work there prior to coming to GB and that the Eagles showed a bit of interest as well

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 09:54 AM
He seems like a great guy. I tried to get into the NFL and send resume and scouting packages to each team. He was VERY nice enough to email me back, and I got to ask him some questions. I wish him the best of luck!

DraftSavant
01-08-2012, 11:07 AM
HueJax=Landon Calrissian.

"This deal's getting worse all the time."

RaiderNation
01-08-2012, 01:43 PM
From all I've heard, this is just all speculation and not actually reporting. Hue in all likelihood will coach for the Raiders for at least next season, and it he isn't up to par McKenzie will go get one of the young upcoming coaches from Green Bay. Hue has made major improvements to this team, and it we are able to bring in a DC to fix our defense we could easily win the division.

nobodyinparticular
01-09-2012, 09:28 PM
Mort reporting again that McKenzie is contemplating Hue. Not a sure thing to this point.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2012/01/09/report-mckenzie-contemplating-whether-to-retain-jackson/

LonghornsLegend
01-09-2012, 10:19 PM
This whole thing seems weird to me. Hue has made some pretty bold moves since Al has passed on, and they weren't that far from winning the division. Don't you at least give him next year? Didn't he already start making personnel decisions this year?

RaiderNation
01-09-2012, 10:24 PM
I just can't see McKenzie getting rid of Hue just because he wants to get one of "his" guys at HC. Hue did a great job handling everything that went on this season, and he deserves another chance to prove that Al made a good hiring last season. Tomorrow McKenzie will be introduced as the new GM, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement made then.

Mufasa
01-09-2012, 10:34 PM
Well they're going to have to ride it out with Palmer for at least one more season, so might as well let Jackson stick around for that. If they fail next year, then cut ties with both of them.

asdf1223
01-10-2012, 12:43 PM
Hue's out per Schefty. Big Mistake IMO but you could see it coming with that last press conference when he threw the entire team under the bus.

mqtirishfan
01-10-2012, 12:46 PM
****. The Raiders are going to destroy the Packers staff now.

A Perfect Score
01-10-2012, 12:48 PM
Please come back to Baltimore as the OC.

BloodBrother
01-10-2012, 12:49 PM
****. The Raiders are going to destroy the Packers staff now.

Yep. Winston Moss as coach and then perhaps he takes some assistants with him. Damn

T-RICH49
01-10-2012, 12:53 PM
Please come back to Baltimore as the OC.

Sorry he's already on his way to KC...source: My dreams :P

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:05 PM
Well I can't wait to have a 5-11 season next year. It will be interesting to see what player(s) get moved, I think just about everybody can be traded if McKenzie feels it needs to happen.

DBNYDP
01-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Darren Perry/Winston Moss are two of Reggie McKenzie's people according to Schefter.

This was a bad move IMO. Consistency is what the NFL is about, and 3 coaches in the past 3 years just makes this organization a joke. The sad thing is that there is actually a good deal of talent on the Raiders, and this constant carousel doesn't allow them to have a consistent system. I guess that is just better for my Broncos though, although I do like a good Raiders team.

I don't know too much about McKenzie but does anyone think that the Raiders might move to a 3-4? Obviously he saw it used a lot with the Packers. What kind of offense is he going to run? Anyone know him better to answer those type of questions? Does this possibly make the Raiders a team that might go out and get a 2nd round QB or something like that?

bearsfan_51
01-10-2012, 01:07 PM
Hue Jackson is a jackass. That is all.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see:

HC Winston Moss
OC ????
DC Darren Perry

Hopefully we can bring in a OC that can use the young talent we have on offense, our WR's have been improving and if DMC can be healthy we can still make some noise in the West next season.

JETS5128
01-10-2012, 01:17 PM
God please let him come to the jets. Such a perfect fit plus him and Rex are friends from BAL, Literally all i want right now is Hue on the Jets

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:19 PM
Good luck to where ever Hue goes, I supported him 100% but I guess major changes need to be made. Hopefully Hue can get his new team to trade a 1st round pick for Palmer :)

theMadStork
01-10-2012, 01:21 PM
the good thing about this is at least we are just starting with a blank slate right now.. If we'd kept Hue, the questions would continue. Now McKenzie is gonna put in all of his guys and we should have consistency for the next # of years. This will now be McKenzie's team.

EvilNixon
01-10-2012, 01:27 PM
After Hue sold us out with that Palmer trade, he needed to kick rocks. Now we can dump Palmer too.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:29 PM
After Hue sold us out with that Palmer trade, he needed to kick rocks. Now we can dump Palmer too.

Then have what at QB? Jason Campbell again? Pryor already? We can't draft a good one this year without a 1st so maybe we try to win the Barkley sweepstakes in the 2013 draft....

49ersfan_87
01-10-2012, 01:32 PM
Then have what at QB? Jason Campbell again? Pryor already? We can't draft a good one this year without a 1st so maybe we try to win the Barkley sweepstakes in the 2013 draft....

Matt Flynn? You have an ex-Packer as GM, probably will hire a Packers coach as HC..makes sense.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:35 PM
Matt Flynn? You have an ex-Packer as GM, probably will hire a Packers coach as HC..makes sense.

I don't feel to good about Flynn as a starting QB. Look at Schaub and Cassel, both have been decent at times but aren't anywhere close to being top 10 QB's in the league. Palmer IMO is a better option then Flynn, but McKenzie likes doesn't agree. I just hope that if we sign Flynn, that it isn't as long as Kolb's contract. If a 3 year deal could be worked out, I would alright with the signing...

Raiderz4Life
01-10-2012, 01:36 PM
Idk how i feel about this...hopefully its for the best.

Raiderz4Life
01-10-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't feel to good about Flynn as a starting QB. Look at Schaub and Cassel, both have been decent at times but aren't anywhere close to being top 10 QB's in the league. Palmer IMO is a better option then Flynn, but McKenzie likes doesn't agree. I just hope that if we sign Flynn, that it isn't as long as Kolb's contract. If a 3 year deal could be worked out, I would alright with the signing...

Woah...you are waaaay underselling Schaub. Schaub has proved to be a pretty damn good QB.

EvilNixon
01-10-2012, 01:41 PM
Then have what at QB? Jason Campbell again? Pryor already? We can't draft a good one this year without a 1st so maybe we try to win the Barkley sweepstakes in the 2013 draft....

Palmer isn't better than Jason Campbell...and Pryor isn't even in the picture atm.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:43 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see:

HC Winston Moss
OC ????
DC Darren Perry

Hopefully we can bring in a OC that can use the young talent we have on offense, our WR's have been improving and if DMC can be healthy we can still make some noise in the West next season.

Also could see

HC Joe Philbin- Current Packers OC, has had top 10 ranked offense for past 3 seasons.
OC Tom Clements- Ton of coaching experience and could look for a promotion.
DC Darren Perry-Coached in Oakland before and has won Super Bowls as a player and coach 3 times.

If Philbin gets the job at HC I wouldn't be surprised to see Flynn be brought in, but if Moss is the new HC the odds drop some for Flynn.

slightlyaraiderfan
01-10-2012, 01:43 PM
Not happy with it, Hue was good with the offense...but I'm sure this happened because Hue is a stubborn **** and he wanted to be involved with more than just being a HC, so I'm not surprised.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 01:48 PM
Woah...you are waaaay underselling Schaub. Schaub has proved to be a pretty damn good QB.
He's never got his team to the playoffs(only played half the season this year), and he always struggled when Andre Johnson was out. He is surrounded by a top 3 rushing attack and a top 5 defense. Plus having a top 5 WR to throw too isnt bad either. Even having all of that he didn't put up that good of numbers.

Palmer isn't better than Jason Campbell...and Pryor isn't even in the picture atm.

You have to be kidding. Palmer turned the ball over more, but he is a much better pass all around and a better leader as well IMO. Campbell had DMC behind him and did limit what Hue could do at times on offense. Palmer started to improve in different area's each week and I'd rather keep him than Campbell at this moment.

Leon Sandcastle
01-10-2012, 01:49 PM
Expect Winston Moss to be named Head Coach and like someone else surmised earlier I expect Matt Flynn to be brought in this offseason.

I liked Hue Jackson though. He seems like a good coach.

EvilNixon
01-10-2012, 01:49 PM
Palmer flat out stunk most of his time here. Horrible decision maker.

Raiderz4Life
01-10-2012, 01:54 PM
I kinda missed Campbell...a lot...the last few games we played. Yea he wasn't spectacular but at least he didn't throw 3 picks a game.

soybean
01-10-2012, 02:03 PM
Woah...you are waaaay underselling Schaub. Schaub has proved to be a pretty damn good QB... in fantasy football

I agree. 10 characters

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 02:03 PM
Comcast SportsNet's Henry Wofford talked with Jackson, who said he is shocked by what happened.

Jackson told Wofford that he was called into Reggie McKenzie's office and was told that the team no longer needs his services.

When Jackson asked why, McKenzie responded that he was starting from scratch and bringing in his own guys. Jackson also asked if he was being let go because of his coaching or his relationship with players. McKenzie would not provide details, but said it has nothing to do with his reportedly bad relationship with the players.

Said Jackson to Wofford: "Come on Henry, you know I did everything possible to keep my job. McKenzie said I was not in his plans for the future and he basically wants to gut this place."

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/raiders-talk/post/Report-Raiders-fire-Hue-Jackson?blockID=628388&feedID=2801

Burger
01-10-2012, 02:12 PM
That is exactly what you guys need to get over the hump unfortunately.

theMadStork
01-10-2012, 02:15 PM
Jason Campbell was getting worse. He was making a lot more bad decisions than he did in the first few games. Palmer made some bad throws/picks, but he also made some unbelievable throws that no one else that we'd be able to get could make.
Palmer played a hell of a lot better this season than his TD/INT #s indicated.

This coming from a person that thought Palmer was DONE when we traded for him.

SolidGold
01-10-2012, 02:41 PM
Campbell is nothing better than average. Every year some excuse is made for him not reaching his potential. I watched him enough in DC to know what he is...a good guy but an avg at best QB. Palmer should stay in OAK, he seems to be gelling with the young WR corp. Getting McFadden back should help as well. They mortgaged their future for Palmer.

As for Hue Jackson, I kind of felt that last year he had something to do with Cable getting canned. I liked his brash personality/ but I think McKenzie saw a power struggle waiting to happen...Hue seemed to want full control of everything in the Raiders organization.

Iamcanadian
01-10-2012, 02:49 PM
Al Davis hired 'yes men' as his HC's. Anytime a HC challenged Al's authority, he was replaced. Hue Jackson was just another 'yes man' in Al Davis's hires. He should be dumped and a real HC hired if MacKenzie wants to make a serious Super Bowl run and put his stamp on this franchise, otherwise Oakland is just wasting another year of Palmer's career.

jackalope
01-10-2012, 02:52 PM
I think this is a good move for the Raiders long term. Expect a lot of trading back in the draft the next few years in order to build depth and develop McKenzie's core of players.

Also could see

HC Joe Philbin- Current Packers OC, has had top 10 ranked offense for past 3 seasons.
OC Tom Clements- Ton of coaching experience and could look for a promotion.
DC Darren Perry-Coached in Oakland before and has won Super Bowls as a player and coach 3 times.

If Philbin gets the job at HC I wouldn't be surprised to see Flynn be brought in, but if Moss is the new HC the odds drop some for Flynn.

I'd like to think that if Philbin were named head coach, Clements would stay in Green Bay to be OC. Also, who know if Philbin would want a head coaching job right now considering what he just went through. Very well may want to stay in Wisconsin at this point and not move his family

As a Packer fan this makes me nervous that McKenzie could bring in Moss and then raid the Packers coaching staff. Keep in mind though that Packer coaches can't be interviewed until after they're out of the playoffs (week off before Superbowl may be exception).

Splat
01-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Silly Raiders.

It's a wonder any one takes that job any more. This will be their 8th HC since 2001.

BloodBrother
01-10-2012, 02:57 PM
I think this is a good move for the Raiders long term. Expect a lot of trading back in the draft the next few years in order to build depth and develop McKenzie's core of players.



I'd like to think that if Philbin were named head coach, Clements would stay in Green Bay to be OC. Also, who know if Philbin would want a head coaching job right now considering what he just went through. Very well may want to stay in Wisconsin at this point and not move his family

As a Packer fan this makes me nervous that McKenzie could bring in Moss and then raid the Packers coaching staff. Keep in mind though that Packer coaches can't be interviewed until after they're out of the playoffs (week off before Superbowl may be exception).

Eh, Moss can go. If Darren Perry goes back to Oakland with Moss or hell, he becomes the coach himself(he or Moss have been rumored as possible head coaches for them), I'd hope GB promotes Joe Whitt to take over for Perry

jackalope
01-10-2012, 03:02 PM
Eh, Moss can go. If Darren Perry goes back to Oakland with Moss or hell, he becomes the coach himself(he or Moss have been rumored as possible head coaches for them), I'd hope GB promotes Joe Whitt to take over for Perry

The guy that I'm most worried about losing is Clements. He's done a great job with the QBs.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 03:03 PM
Here is an idea to get rid of Palmer now, trade him to Seattle. Pete Carrol needs a QB and he could pull a Hue Jackson and trade a draft pick for Carson. The Seahawks are desperate for a QB, Tavaris Jackson is a back up at best and this team can be a wildcard contender easily with Palmer under center. If he Raiders could get away with a 1st or 2nd I'd be happy.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Here is an idea to get rid of Palmer now, trade him to Seattle. Pete Carrol needs a QB and he could pull a Hue Jackson and trade a draft pick for Carson. The Seahawks are desperate for a QB, Tavaris Jackson is a back up at best and this team can be a wildcard contender easily with Palmer under center. If he Raiders could get away with a 1st or 2nd I'd be happy.
In what ways is Carson Palmer significantly better than Tarvaris Jackson? I wouldn't even take on the extra salary.

Raiderz4Life
01-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Carrol isn't as stupid as Hue....we probably would get a 3rd and that is the absolute best case scenario all planets lined up solar eclipse type deal.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Raiders fans need to consider that Palmer's contract is 12.5 million dollars in 2012, 13 million in 2013 and 15 million in 2014.

Even if you had to give up NO draft picks, would you even want that?

asdf1223
01-10-2012, 03:28 PM
Yeah, the Seahawks already hired the GB guy who loves to trade down to be their GM two years ago. They are not going to give up anything close to what the Raiders gave up and the Raiders arent going to give up Palmer for pennies on the dollar.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Yeah, the Seahawks already hired the GB guy who loves to trade down to be their GM two years ago. They are not going to give up anything close to what the Raiders gave up and the Raiders arent going to give up Palmer for pennies on the dollar.

Carrol had a pretty bad draft last year IMO, and he could feel pressured into getting a starting caliber QB like Palmer, who he is confortable with since he played for him at USC. Tavaris Jackson is a joke IMO, and to those who say Palmer isn't an upgrade over Jackson clearly didn't see Palmer play this season. His INT numbers are high but he played better then what his stats show. The Raiders offense is still young and suffered a lot of injuries to key players. DMC out for 9 games, DHB/Moore/Ford/Murphy all missed game this year, and not having a defense that can stop the other teams offense really made Palmer have to play out of his confort zone.

QB's always get trade for more then what they are worth, and Seattle could feel like if they get a QB who could potentially be the next Matt Hasselbeck type QB for this organization. They have the RB, decent WR group, improving defense, but they are just missing the QB to make a run with.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2012, 04:04 PM
Carrol had a pretty bad draft last year IMO, and he could feel pressured into getting a starting caliber QB like Palmer, who he is confortable with since he played for him at USC. Tavaris Jackson is a joke IMO, and to those who say Palmer isn't an upgrade over Jackson clearly didn't see Palmer play this season. His INT numbers are high but he played better then what his stats show. The Raiders offense is still young and suffered a lot of injuries to key players. DMC out for 9 games, DHB/Moore/Ford/Murphy all missed game this year, and not having a defense that can stop the other teams offense really made Palmer have to play out of his confort zone.

QB's always get trade for more then what they are worth, and Seattle could feel like if they get a QB who could potentially be the next Matt Hasselbeck type QB for this organization. They have the RB, decent WR group, improving defense, but they are just missing the QB to make a run with.
Answer my questions. If Palmer is starter quality and Jackson is a joke, why? And why is Palmer worth 12.5 million dollars + draft pick?

asdf1223
01-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Carrol had a pretty bad draft last year IMO, and he could feel pressured into getting a starting caliber QB like Palmer, who he is confortable with since he played for him at USC. Tavaris Jackson is a joke IMO, and to those who say Palmer isn't an upgrade over Jackson clearly didn't see Palmer play this season. His INT numbers are high but he played better then what his stats show. The Raiders offense is still young and suffered a lot of injuries to key players. DMC out for 9 games, DHB/Moore/Ford/Murphy all missed game this year, and not having a defense that can stop the other teams offense really made Palmer have to play out of his confort zone.

QB's always get trade for more then what they are worth, and Seattle could feel like if they get a QB who could potentially be the next Matt Hasselbeck type QB for this organization. They have the RB, decent WR group, improving defense, but they are just missing the QB to make a run with.

They got 2 very good starters on defense in Richard Sherman and KJ Wright. They also got their leading receiver as a UDFA. Coupled that with the very good draft they had last year, I'm pretty sure no one is complaining about their talent evaluation.

And Pete isnt Steve Spurrier part 2. Multiple times he's passed on higher rated USC prospects to draft players from the same position from rival schools. The only USC guys they have on their roster are Mike Willams, backup TE and 2 backup LBs. He's shown zero inclination to have his guys from the past around.

TimmG6376
01-10-2012, 04:23 PM
Media at press conference seems "surprised" that Hue was fired. This is a culture overhaul. This is not a shock.

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 04:28 PM
Answer my questions. If Palmer is starter quality and Jackson is a joke, why? And why is Palmer worth 12.5 million dollars + draft pick?

You can cut him after next season without a cap hit, and I'm sure they can get enough room to do that. Teams are always desperate for QBs and would you rather have Palmer on a 1 year deal with a option for future years or draft a guy like Ryan Tannehill who IMO is about as good of a prospect as Christian Ponder(who will take atleast another 2 years before he becomes a good NFL QB).

RaiderNation
01-10-2012, 04:51 PM
Here is my recap of the press conference:

McKenzie will take as long as it takes to find the right guy for the Head Coaching job, and the process to find one begins now. McKenzie also likes Palmer, but admits the Bengals got the better of us in the trade down the line. He knows we don't have enough picks, but don't be surprised for him to try and get more. McKenzie believes an organization starts from the top down, and has to be a "chain of command". Everything will be looked into, the expectations didn't get reached. McKenzie likes both the 3-4 and 4-3 defense. Mark Davis will consult with McKenzie in finding the new Head Coach, but McKenzie will have the main control in the personel moves. McKenzie wants a system that works and gets win, doesn't mean he will go with 100% with Packers schemes. Mark Davis seems to regret the Palmer trade, had to be done too fast and it had to be done. McKenzie feels like he is back home now with the Raiders, the job couldn't be passed up and he is excited to be apart of this organziation. McKenzie will evaluate everything, no quick decisions. He doesn't want to give up a player and see them go be a Pro Bowl player somewhere else. He promises to improve every part of this team. Mark Davis doesn't think he will sell his fathers team and legacy. Mark Davis is looking into a new stadium, either in Oakland, the 49ers new stadium or potential other area's(L.A.). Mark feels injuries really hurt this team a lot, thinks we could have won the division. McKenzie wants to bring great communication to the team, have one goal to win football games. McKenzie knows how to get the job done, he is ready to roll up his sleeves and get the Raiders to be better. The top prioroity is to get the personel staff together, then the team better. McKenzie ready for the draft process, he wants to try and upgrade every area to get the best group of players. Both Campbell and Palmer will looked at, McKenzie believes competition is vital. Palmer isn't protected and if we can upgrade we will.

Raiderz4Life
01-10-2012, 05:00 PM
I honestly think you're vastly overrating Palmer.

Stash
01-10-2012, 05:13 PM
I'm kind of up in the air with the Hue firing. If he was trying to get more control and the GM saw a possible power struggle developing, then that is perfectly understandable. There were times during the season when I questioned some of Hue's in-game decisions (not taking points early in a game, getting a little pass happy at times) and he also did not fix the Raiders discipline problems.

I like that McKenzie is rebuilding this staff from the ground up, I think that will benefit the Raiders in the long run and help change the culture with the team. The part I'm worried about is the offense in general. Hue really did a great job turning that into our strength, but who knows what happens now. He may not be a great HC, but he was a damn good OC for us.

eltwentyone
01-10-2012, 05:16 PM
I think hue is a good coach, but when he got gm powers, he gott crazy with all that power, and I think he wouldve stayed but throwing your team under the bus, and the type of personality would clash with Mckenzie, Oakland got good pieces but damnnn they gott rid of this bs first, hopefully it already happened

bearsfan_51
01-10-2012, 05:33 PM
You can cut him after next season without a cap hit, and I'm sure they can get enough room to do that. Teams are always desperate for QBs and would you rather have Palmer on a 1 year deal with a option for future years or draft a guy like Ryan Tannehill who IMO is about as good of a prospect as Christian Ponder(who will take atleast another 2 years before he becomes a good NFL QB).
That's what Tarvaris Jackson is. A guy who will be half decent while you're grooming someone else. Palmer is no better than that, and he's older.

Xonraider
01-10-2012, 06:40 PM
Silly Raiders.

It's a wonder any one takes that job any more. This will be their 8th HC since 2001.

This was something that had to be done.

boknows34
01-11-2012, 03:20 AM
Former Raiders exec Michael Lombardi is not surprised by the move and says it brings much needed change.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d825e2a4a/article/jacksons-firing-signals-muchneeded-change-arrives-in-oakland


We used to have a saying at the Raiders when I worked there: "The jungle is never dangerous as long as you know the trails." With Reggie McKenzie coming on board as the new "football man" in Oakland, it appears that there no longer is going to be a jungle. The entire Raider organization is about to transform.

Only days after being named general manager, McKenzie took swift action in letting everyone know who holds the power, firing coach Hue Jackson before even meeting the media. McKenzie needs to start fresh and build his own organization, and to do that properly he needed his own man in the head chair.

When Al Davis died in October, everyone knew there would be change coming to the Raiders. It had to happen, too, because change was something Davis never embraced. Things were done in an old style, an old manner, and because Davis had success doing things his own way, he was never willing to adjust to the new era. Davis would often talk to me about how he wanted to change the way we operated. That was his way of letting me know he knew what I was thinking, but it was not going to happen.

Now, the Raiders will embark on a new era, one that will have some lineage to the old days, but clearly become more modern. Because McKenzie comes from Green Bay, expect the Packer infrastructure to come to town. The Packers operate in a traditional manner -- the GM runs the football side, the coaches coach, the scouts scout and everyone knows their role. McKenzie will set up shop the same way in Oakland because this is what he knows and this is what makes him most comfortable. And comfort is important when you have never had the authority that has been bestowed upon him.

Jackson was a casualty of this new era. He tried to be the leader and fill the void when Davis died. But in reality, he tried too hard. I think Jackson had the right idea but chose the wrong course of action. He alienated too many people in the building and was seen as too self-serving. General Mark Welsh once said, "Leadership is a gift given by those who follow." Jackson was losing followers each day.

I am strongly of the belief that a new head coach must assume a different style and perspective when he moves from an assistant chair to the head chair. When I hear people say Packers coach Mike McCarthy has changed since becoming a head coach, it makes me realize he understands the responsibility. This is the reason why McCarthy has been able to be so successful. So the change by Jackson was warranted, but not in the manner he went about it.

McKenzie will run the Raiders his way. He knows he has to bring in some new blood, but he also should know there are some outstanding people in the building who are looking for leadership and guidance and want to help the franchise win. The worst decision McKenzie can make is to blindly clean everyone out. He needs to take his time and evaluate the people already in place and allow them an opportunity to either shine or resist change.

These changes are for the best and McKenzie can start his new career without any obstacles or road blocks. Time is of the essence. Had McKenzie waited like Mike Holmgren did in Cleveland, he would be a year behind. McKenzie starts fresh so he can start fast.

Would Al Davis have been happy with this succession plan? No one will ever know. All Davis would care about is winning and having a team that put fear into opponents. That is McKenzie's charge now.

nobodyinparticular
01-11-2012, 06:55 PM
Well... This is interesting... I have three thoughts on this decision the McKenzie made to clean house.

1) There certainly were pros and cons to Hue Jackson as head coach

Pros:
a. Huge part of the offensive rebirth in Oakland. Offense was horrible for years and Hue brought life to the offense.
b. Seemed to have the respect of the Raiders players through the season.
c. Fate seemed tied to Carson Palmer. There is so much invested in Palmer they are getting rid of him. Might as well keep the coach who wanted him here.
d. Continuity in the face of so many changes is important.
e. Had become the face of the franchise after Al's passing.

Cons:
a. For as good as he was with the team through the season, there are reports that he began to lose the team at the end of the season.
b. Team discipline was clearly an issue. Some fans may say Raiders get picked on, but you can't argue offsides, false start or delay of game and the Raiders had way too many of those too.
c. Made some idiotic decisions in-game. Like the deep pass on 3rd down with 2 min to go against Detroit.
d. Seemed to get too power-hungry when Al passed away, trying to play GM, HC, OC, QB coach, etc.
e. The decision to take his request for power to the media just isn't the way to do things. Madden and Wolf reportedly did not like that.
f. 1-4 to close the season when even 2-3 would win the division is just awful.

Clearly there were plenty of reasons to keep him and plenty of reasons to get rid of him. I would have rather kept him for another year with the hope that he could be on board with McKenzie's personnel leadership and maybe with a less-crazy year and less on his plate he would perform better. However, if he just couldn't see himself falling under the power of McKenzie he had to go immediately.

2) McKenzie certainly has a case for wanting a clean slate. The Raiders, for the past four and a half decades, have been working with the same formula as they try to win. It has worked in the past, but throughout the years, this formula has merely been tweaked here and there with new variables (mostly head coaches and coordinators) being added. This left the formula both out of date and unworkably fudged. With this in mind, wiping the slate absolutely clean and starting a new formula isn't such a bad idea.

3) The up-front issues with the Oakland Raiders were certainly out of date, but the unseen parts of the inner workings are even worse. For example, the scouting department was almost non-existent, the chain of command in every area began and ended with Al, the medical equipment and scouting was out of date and most people involved are either too old or not qualified to do the job.

Reggie McKenzie needs to go through, top to bottom, and fully assess the inner workings of the staffing and personnel. Mark Davis need to go through, top to bottom, and fully assess the inner workings of the structure, medical equipment and operations side of the organization. And the head coach needs to be able to fall in line with this method of thinking. It was clear that Hue's view of leadership was much closer to Al's view of leadership--get your hands on everything so that you can make things work your way. McKenzie's here to change that style into a structured order and Mark Davis is also on board with that. As that structure modernized, so too will the behind-the-scenes pieces. But the head coach needs to be on board with that. I'm not saying Hue Jackson would have complained if Mark and McKenzie brought in new, state-of-the-art medical equipment, but it seemed Hue wanted to have his hands on everything. Reggie McKenzie's structure does not provide for that type of head coaching control.
--------------------------------------

In the end, I can get on board with the decision. I am very excited as it seems Mark Davis is going to strive to modernize this franchise in a way that it very much needed to be modernized. People can say "This is what makes them the Raiders" but this is in no way the Raiders franchise of July 25, 1966-Oct 8 2011. This is a new direction under new leadership which is very strictly contrasted to every coaching change in the past--because Al Davis was still in control and a change in head coach was generally without effect on any other part of the organization. And yet as the Raiders clean house, they can still pay homage to the great legacy of the Raiders past. One way they will do this is by bringing in old Raider connections including Ron Wolf and John Madden advising Mark Davis, Reggie McKenzie a former Raider himself as the general manager and perhaps another former Raider in Winston Moss to be the head coach.

I'm looking forward to what this change brings to the organization.

nepg
01-11-2012, 07:11 PM
After much deliberation, I've decided that firing Hue Jackson was the right move. Unfortunately.

Jackson had become far too powerful since Al's passing, and the longer he stayed on, the messier things were going to get with trying to put together a proper front office.

Mark Davis is smart to recognize that he doesn't have it in him to juggle all of the responsibilities his father had and that Hue Jackson shouldn't have GM-power.

It sucks to fire Hue because he's done some great things for the organization, but in order to build long-term and have a functional staff (FO & coaching combined), he had to go.

nobodyinparticular
01-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Everyone is talking about what this means for the coaching staff, but I want to know what you do with the players right now.

It's clear McKenzie is going for a full reboot. By rebuilding the coaching staff, you have to figure the team is going to go through some struggles on the football side. Do you try to keep puttering along and hope the veterans on this team help push them through to achieve, or do you begin to sell off your assets for draft picks to start over on the field too?

As it comes to their salary cap, the Raiders are VERY top heavy. They have a few contracts that take up a lot of space. These guys are Richard Seymour, Kamerion Wimbley, Carson Palmer, Stanford Routt, Michael Huff and then a few others. Of course the recent draft picks are also expensive between McClain, McFadden and DHB. If you can, do you try to get whatever you can (3rd rounder?) for Seymour? Would you cut Wimbley? Trade Routt for a 6th?

How do the Raiders approach the player personnel side of this transition?
How would you approach it?

A Perfect Score
01-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Everyone is talking about what this means for the coaching staff, but I want to know what you do with the players right now.

It's clear McKenzie is going for a full reboot. By rebuilding the coaching staff, you have to figure the team is going to go through some struggles on the football side. Do you try to keep puttering along and hope the veterans on this team help push them through to achieve, or do you begin to sell off your assets for draft picks to start over on the field too?

As it comes to their salary cap, the Raiders are VERY top heavy. They have a few contracts that take up a lot of space. These guys are Richard Seymour, Kamerion Wimbley, Carson Palmer, Stanford Routt, Michael Huff and then a few others. Of course the recent draft picks are also expensive between McClain, McFadden and DHB. If you can, do you try to get whatever you can (3rd rounder?) for Seymour? Would you cut Wimbley? Trade Routt for a 6th?

How do the Raiders approach the player personnel side of this transition?
How would you approach it?

Go back in time and don't trade a first and second rounder for Carson Palmer.

boknows34
01-11-2012, 07:43 PM
Don Banks at cnnsi pulls no punches on Hue Jackson.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/01/10/hue.jackson.firing/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

The Hue Jackson error in Oakland is over, and as it turns out, maybe the Raiders are starting to make progress after all.

Jackson's firing on Tuesday after just one tumultuous season represents a clean break of sorts in Oakland, from the way things were done when Al Davis ran the whole show for decades, to the way business will now be conducted with new Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie in charge.

Jackson was the last coaching hire of Davis, the iconic Raiders owner who died in early October at 82. And his dismissal is now the first move made by McKenzie, the respected former Green Bay personnel executive who promises to bring some sense of sanity, accountability and a more traditional mode of NFL operations to Oakland.

I haven't even heard his introductory press conference yet, but I like what I've seen from McKenzie so far.

As a head coach, I thought Jackson was a fraud, and the kind of guy who had no qualms maneuvering behind the back of former Raiders head coach Tom Cable, even while he was serving as Cable's offensive coordinator in 2010. Jackson talked colorfully and confidently, and was masterful at the art of self-promotion and the cultivation of media members. But he kind of showed his true self in that damaging season-wrap-up press conference he gave the day after his Raiders melted down at home against San Diego in Week 17, costing themselves the AFC West title and Oakland's first playoff berth since 2002.

Jackson went on a tirade, repeatedly speaking of how "pissed'' he was at his team for the loss, shirking any meaningful effort to take responsibility for the season-defining defeat, and basically throwing his defensive coaching staff under the bus in the process.

Remarkably tone deaf when he needed an acute sense of his own vulnerability and lack of accountability, Jackson vowed to "take a stronger hand in this whole organization,'' to ensure that the same underachieving scenario never unfolded again for his Raiders, who started the year 7-4 but lost four of their final five games to record their ninth consecutive non-winning season.

Nice try, Hue. Instead of more authority, Jackson got shown the door. And that in and of itself is reason for hope in Oakland. McKenzie, a former Raiders linebacker in the 1980s, comes to town after serving 18 years in the Green Bay front office. He knows what a successful NFL team looks like, and how one operates. And most importantly, he knows how an NFL head coach should think, sound and conduct himself. I'm pretty sure Jackson went 0-for-3 on that front.

Jackson has already spouted off to a local Bay Area media outlet in the wake of his firing, saying McKenzie "is going to gut this place,'' adding that the Raiders' new GM "wants to bring in his own guys. No job is safe right now.''

News flash: That's typically how it works when an NFL franchise hires a new general manager. He gets the right to bring in his own head coach, and his own people, and to "gut'' the place if necessary. Just because Oakland was the exception to the rule of how NFL teams operated during Davis' long and often bizarre fiefdom -- at least in the final decade of his life -- doesn't mean Jackson passes for credible when he tries to make the normal sound like the aberration.

And if a new GM decides the head coach is more of a liability than an asset, he goes, too, especially if he's coming off an underachieving 8-8 season in which an almost certain playoff berth was squandered in the weakest of divisions.

A team is a reflection of its head coach, and Jackson's Raiders were undisciplined and sloppy on the job, breaking NFL records for both penalties and penalty yardage in 2011. Oakland was often its own worst enemy, and that too is a trait Jackson shared, with his blatant grabs for power within the organization, his inability to take overall responsibility for the product on the field, and his highly debatable decision to mortgage the team's draft future in trading for quarterback Carson Palmer in October.

If Jackson thought his track record this season made him deserving of even more authority within the organization, then he was only judging by the same general state of dysfunction that has ruled the Raiders for most of the past decade. With McKenzie quickly recognizing Jackson for what he was, Oakland actually just took a significant step away from its dysfunctional ways and toward progress.

In Oakland, doing things the way they've always been done hasn't worked of late. And finally someone noticed. Jackson's one costly year on the job will set the Raiders back on the draft front, but not as much as if McKenzie had not had the courage to cut the team's losses and move on.

In Cable's final season of 2010, Oakland's 8-8 really did register as progress, being the first time in eight years the Raiders avoided a double-digit loss season. Jackson's 8-8 season, with its late-season collapse and dubious Palmer trade, will go down in Oakland history as a failure.

Firing a head coach who seemingly just got to town is a typical Raiders move. But that doesn't mean it's always the wrong call. This time, Oakland got it right. With Jackson gone, the McKenzie era is off to a very good start.

bearsfan_51
01-11-2012, 07:59 PM
Everyone is talking about what this means for the coaching staff, but I want to know what you do with the players right now.

It's clear McKenzie is going for a full reboot. By rebuilding the coaching staff, you have to figure the team is going to go through some struggles on the football side. Do you try to keep puttering along and hope the veterans on this team help push them through to achieve, or do you begin to sell off your assets for draft picks to start over on the field too?

As it comes to their salary cap, the Raiders are VERY top heavy. They have a few contracts that take up a lot of space. These guys are Richard Seymour, Kamerion Wimbley, Carson Palmer, Stanford Routt, Michael Huff and then a few others. Of course the recent draft picks are also expensive between McClain, McFadden and DHB. If you can, do you try to get whatever you can (3rd rounder?) for Seymour? Would you cut Wimbley? Trade Routt for a 6th?

How do the Raiders approach the player personnel side of this transition?
How would you approach it?
Considering some of the absurd contracts the Raiders have given out, I don't think they have many valuable assets to trade.

nobodyinparticular
01-11-2012, 08:12 PM
Considering some of the absurd contracts the Raiders have given out, I don't think they have many valuable assets to trade.

And if they can't get anything out of them, do you cut them? (like Wimbley, etc.)

boknows34
01-11-2012, 08:14 PM
- McKenzie is trying to revitalize the entire Raider organization. He is going to install an actual scouting department. Up to this point, the Raider scouting department consisted of Al Davis and his stop watch and a few former players who became scouts. For 48 years, Davis was the general manager, head scout, head of pro player personnel, head of everything. There was no room for another voice.

- McKenzie is going to break the Raider tradition (aka: Al's way) of hiring all the assistants before the Head Coach. He will name his Head Coach first and then allow that individual to hire his entire staff. This has never happened in Oakland. Not even Jon Gruden was allowed to hire his own defensive coordinator or special teams coaches. Al did this all for him. All of Hue Jackson's coaches were hired last year before he was offered the job.

- I think Hue's mouth and ego talked his way out of Oakland. In an interview following the Week 17 loss to the Chargers, he demanded to be a part of the "GM search" along with new owner Mark Davis. Its clear that the power Jackson suddenly found himself with after Davis' death had gone completely to his head which I'm sure pissed off Davis. Hue should have simply kept his mouth shut and accepted that he would work with anyone that Davis deemed fit be General Manager, rather than demanding to be a part of the process.

- Most new GM's want to bring in their own guy in their first year. Remember when Mike Holmgren stuck with Mangini for his first year in Cleveland? That didn't work out too well and only delayed his "project" with a wasted year. McKenzie learned from that experience. Like he said in the press conference "I want to bring my own guy in." No nonsense attitude.

- Hue was and still will be for another team a very good Offensive Co-ordinator. He had a potent offense, even with the injuries, but didn't prove himself to be solid head coach. Oakland broke the league record for penalties and penalty yardage after Hue claimed all season long that he would "fix it" or be held "accountable." Well....he was held accountable. The Raiders were 7-4 after beating the Bears and needed to only win 2 more games to make the playoffs. What was Hue's response? Getting waxed by Miami with a lame duck head coach, getting killed in Green Bay, losing at home to Detroit after being up 13 in the 4th Quarter and the icing on the cake was losing at home to San Diego to lose the division and playoff spot. How did Hue hold himself accountable following these embarrassing losses? He conducts a post game interview where he calls out the defense, the coaches, players, organization, etc. He barely ever acknowledges his own faults and throws everyone under the bus. That's not how a NFL coach handles a loss and Madden and Wolf were certainly not impressed.

- These are the sort of changes that many Raider fans have been calling on for 15 years. Everything is changing in Oakland...the culture, attitude, organization, coaches, scouts, future stadium deals, etc. The Raiders have finally entered the modern era of professional football and its far too long overdue.

bearsfan_51
01-11-2012, 08:17 PM
And if they can't get anything out of them, do you cut them? (like Wimbley, etc.)
I don't know enough about the specifics of the Raiders salary cap position (other than they are over), but I don't think you cut productive veterans unless you have someone capable of replacing them. Having given up so many draft picks, I don't think that would be the case for the Raiders.

LonghornsLegend
01-11-2012, 09:01 PM
- McKenzie is trying to revitalize the entire Raider organization. He is going to install an actual scouting department. Up to this point, the Raider scouting department consisted of Al Davis and his stop watch and a few former players who became scouts. For 48 years, Davis was the general manager, head scout, head of pro player personnel, head of everything. There was no room for another voice.

I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.

Abaddon
01-11-2012, 10:01 PM
Outstanding move. I was concerned by all of the "Hue is safe" reports, but it turns out that McKenzie is on a mission. I'm in.

Abaddon
01-11-2012, 10:19 PM
I dunno how accurate this info is, but I'd wager that it's pretty close.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/2012/cap-hit/oakland-raiders/

Just look at the top 12 players in terms of salary cap numbers:

Richard Seymour at Defensive Tackle $15,000,000

Carson Palmer at Quarterback $12,500,000

Kamerion Wimbley at Linebacker $11,000,000

Tommy Kelly at Defensive End $8,892,856

Darren McFadden at Running Back $6,716,667

Stanford Routt at Cornerback $6,250,000

Michael Huff at Safety $5,828,750

Aaron Curry at Linebacker $5,700,000

Shane Lechler at Punter $5,650,000

Rolando McClain at Linebacker $5,570,000

John Henderson at Defensive Tackle $4,750,000

Hiram Eugene at Safety $2,500,000

Bloated contracts of mostly uninspiring players.

Seymour plays very well in spurts, but disappears for weeks at a time. There's no way in hell that Oakland will honor his $7.5 million roster bonus + his $7.5 million salary. $15 mill for one season, or cut with 0 cap penalties? This one is easy. He's gone.

Tommy Kelly's contract was a tragic joke. His play elevated with Seymour next to him, but he still erratic. Even more so than Seymour. Good bye. $8.9 million more freed up.

$4,750,000 for John Henderson? A reserve who can't stay healthy? I hope you saved some of that cash, because it's league minimum wherever you land after you get trimmed. Good luck with your future endeavors.

$2.5 million for Hiram freaking Eugene? And some people doubted that Al had gone senile. Holy crap. Peace, dude.

I guarantee, even with some cap penalties involved, these 4 moves put Oakland well under the cap. Add in some Swedish massaging of Aaron Curry, Shane Lechler, Stanford Routt, and Kamerion Wimbley's contracts and you're rolling. Only Lechler actually performs at a high level every week, so if the other 3 get the ax too, oh well. More chances for Reggie to prove his supporters right when they say he's a great player evaluator.

If I'm Darren McFadden, I'm pondering my future as well. Being as dynamic as you are brittle would keep you employed under the old guard. I'm betting those days have passed as well.

Looks like Cooper Carlisle is set to make $3 mill in both 2012 and 2013. I bet he doesn't see it.

Very easy cap situation here.

RaiderNation
01-11-2012, 11:15 PM
With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.

If we can land a few defensive players, and maybe a WR we could still be decent next season. For now Carson Palmer is our QB according to Reggie McKenzie, but once a coaching staff is brought together that could easily change. Bringing in Matt Flynn to be apart of our new coaching staff(likely going to have a ton of Packer assistants that will be getting promotions) will give us a chance next year with all the talent we already have on offense.

If we go 3-4 on defense, we could look to sign Mario Williams to a huge deal, and add a NT like Garay or Pouha. We have some young talent on our defense, we just need a new scheme and coaches to play them to their stregnths. Lamarr Houston could play some 3-4 DE easily, McClain and Curry at ILB and Wimbley at OLB. Players like Matt Shaughnessy, Desmond Bryant and Jarvis Moss will have to make position changes or get cut, but they all are still pretty young and have potential.

We likely won't try and pull a Eagles/Heat type off season though, I just hope we make some moves since we don't have much of a draft until our compensary pick in the 3rd for the Asmougha signing. New players need to be added to this team, especially on defense, so don't be surprised to see us at least sign 2 or 3 decent players this off season.

bearsfan_51
01-12-2012, 12:12 AM
With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.
Franchise tag

_YL_
01-12-2012, 12:15 AM
RM is not gona spend big in FA cause its just not what he is use to Packers have never been big in FA he will look at the second tier FA. Dont expect Seymour to be back unless he takes a nice pay cutt its ethier him or Kelly. I expect to see a lot of player changing.

Oakland will be moving to the 34 so only need Kelly or Seymour. John Henderson most likely cutt. CJ should be cutt. Q.Groves also. I'll give Wimbley one year to show he is worth keeping around in the 34 . Hopefully the put Curry inside with McClain so in FA I expect to see Oakland go after a NT and another pass rushing OLB.

nobodyinparticular
01-12-2012, 12:56 AM
If we go 3-4 on defense, we could look to sign Mario Williams to a huge deal, and add a NT like Garay or Pouha. We have some young talent on our defense, we just need a new scheme and coaches to play them to their stregnths. Lamarr Houston could play some 3-4 DE easily, McClain and Curry at ILB and Wimbley at OLB. Players like Matt Shaughnessy, Desmond Bryant and Jarvis Moss will have to make position changes or get cut, but they all are still pretty young and have potential.


If we are going with a pipedream signing like Mario Williams--pipedream of pipedreams--I wouldn't think about putting him back in a 3-4 D. Sign him, have him play all along the line in a 4-3, slide Houston in for much of the time (DE on running plays), Shaugnessy at RE and Desmond Bryant as key rotation player at DT (who has probably outplayed both Seymour and Kelly in the 2nd half of this season). Cut two or all of Henderson, Seymour, Kelly and go after a cheapo run-stuffing 4-3 NT--anyone over 340 lbs off the street will do. If you really want to keep Wimbley, rotate him in at RE or stand up rusher on a 5-man line.

That give you depth of Williams, Shaughnessy, Houston, Bryant, Wimbley, Moss, Scott, random 340+ lber or two on the line. Would you be amazing in run defense up the middle? No, but talk about a ridiculously talented d-line.

Curry is serviceable as a WLB, McClain is good cleaning up in the middle on the run but never stick him on a TE. That would mean the Raiders either need to stick with a guy like Huff on the TE every play or go after a SLB who shines in coverage.

But that's neither here nor there because Mario Williams won't be coming to Oakland, nice as it is to think about.

nobodyinparticular
01-12-2012, 01:19 AM
How do people feel about ESPN's QBR? Palmer came out at #11 through the season, just below Stafford, Rivers, Roeth and Vick. This is also just better (by only a smidge) than Manning and Cutler.

I just don't know what to make of this.

On one end of the spectrum, I saw 90% of his plays were actually very positive. He looked like a real QB for much of the game, especially after the first few games when he got to know the system and WRs. On the other hand, his mistakes were just CRIPPLING. He's like the Anti-Tebow because when the Raiders needed their QB to pull a win out of his ass, he threw a pick and gave the game away. When it mattered most, he flat out sucked. And... even sometimes when it didn't matter.

Still, I could be intrigued by seeing Palmer with an offseason under his belt, a little bit of lost weight (no one mentioned he was pudgier than I've ever seen by a good 15 lbs or so). Give him more time with a full stable of WRs and see what happens. But you're also talking to the guy who has rooted for the following QBs (I use the term loosely): Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter, Josh McCown, Bruce Gradkowski, Daunte Culpepper, Charlie Frye and Jason Campbell. This is very likely a situation of settling for the least ugly girl at the bar.

Damn, that's a lot of turnovers. But QBR still likes Palmer...

You're Reggie McKenzie. What do you do with Carson Palmer (and his $12 million)?

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 01:27 AM
Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.

RaiderNation
01-12-2012, 01:36 AM
I'm still saying Palmer played decent this year for us under the circumstances he had to play with. Young WR's that couldn't stay healthy, missing his best weapon in DMC the whole time, a defense that was non-existent at large streches the entire season and on top of that he came off the couch to play in a NFL game off of 3 days of practice. We can cut Palmer after the 2012 season with little/no cap hit, and we might have a top pick next year to draft our QB of the future.

Borat
01-12-2012, 01:59 AM
Holy **** NIP, you typed this thing on your iphone? Very impressive.

nobodyinparticular
01-12-2012, 02:04 AM
Things have been crazy for me recently so I feel like I'm overflowing with thoughts on this issue. Reading through the presser transcript this morning, this caught my eye

Q: Your opinion of Carson Palmer as a quarterback and the trade that brought him here?

Reggie McKenzie: No. 1, as a personnel guy, I love my picks. No. 1, I love more, I love good players. Now, bringing in Carson at the time the Raiders brought him in, to me, as a player, that’s a good move. You have to get players that can help you win games. Now, did the position of the situation present itself favorably for Cincinnati? Absolutely. But you do what you have to do. That’s just the way it is, the cost of doing business. You’re trying to help your team win. You can’t put parameters from a standpoint of knowing the possibility was not as good, on the other hand. But as far as Carson Palmer is concerned, I think he’s a good quarterback. Period.

Fairly PC answer as it relates to Palmer, but McKenzie seems to like him well enough. Certainly didn't give a full commitment to him (as a QB in to lead Oakland in the next half decade) but that's understandable. However, what stands out to me is how McKenzie panned the trade in terms of value. It's very clear McKenzie is in agreement with pretty much everyone--the 2 premium picks were a horrible load to trade for Palmer.

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 08:58 AM
This is why I thought back then, and still do now, that the Richard Seymour trade was terrible for Oakland. If it doesn't bring you a SB(which it was never going to do) why make it? Sure you got some great play out of him, sure he was a leader for the team, then what? What benefit did he provide to the team in the grand scheme of things?


You could of drafted a guy you liked with that pick, and he'd be just hitting his prime and be a key component of the team for a long time, instead most people are talking about cutting Seymour.


You make trades like that when your a playoff team, have been on the cusp for years, and that move likely puts you over the top. Instead, he helped the Raiders be mediocre instead of below average, thus getting worse picks in the draft the next few years after.


Never saw any point what so ever in making that deal.

NIN1984
01-12-2012, 10:02 AM
I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.

I feel for you man. Its pretty clear Jerry Jones is crazy and will become the next Al Davis. Hopefully he was paying attention to how the Raiders just completely fell apart, because Al just couldn't stop. JJ needs to wake up now before its too late.

_YL_
01-12-2012, 10:14 AM
I don't see how RM doesnt keep Palmer. RM is all about competition so he is not gonna come out and nane him the starter he says he is gonna bring in someone to push him but the FA market for QBs aside from M.Flynn who a lot of Raider fans want but I dont know how u can carry Palmer contract and Flynn contract.

Yeah looking back the Seymour fade doesnt look all.that good. He has.really slowed.down plays good in spurts but not someone who can count on every play. I would be surprised to see.him back

jackalope
01-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.

This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.

nobodyinparticular
01-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.

This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.

I'm going to agree with jackalope here. McKenzie has already shown the willingness to end the relationship at perhaps the detriment tote short term for the benefit of a full rebuild. We saw that with Hue Jackson's firing.

So then it comes to whether or not Palmer fits the system. It comes down to whether or not McKenzie wants a clean slate with his players on the field as much a the coaching staff. It comes down whether or not McKenzie believes Palmer is a starting QB in this league, or if he's worth the money as a significant upgrade over the next available QB who would likely be much cheaper.

There is certainly a lot that will go into the decision making process on this, but I don't think Mckenzie will have many qualms about the resources wasted on Palmer. He doesn't seem afraid to cut his losses early on for the benefit of a fresh start.

nobodyinparticular
01-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Holy **** NIP, you typed this thing on your iphone? Very impressive.

Thanks Borat. :-)

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 01:18 PM
This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.

Well its not a guarantee that Flynn will come here. Also, NIP asked what to do with Palmer, I'm just saying there isn't a whole lot you can do, cut him and take the hit...possible...only if we get someone to take over not Campbell or Pryor though, or we can trade him for absolutely nothing.

Abaddon
01-12-2012, 01:46 PM
With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.

You don't rebuild by dumping your own overpriced players in favor of someone else's.

McKenzie will fill the roster with lower tier FAs and use whatever draft picks he can muster to start building the team in his image.

Abaddon
01-12-2012, 01:51 PM
You're Reggie McKenzie. What do you do with Carson Palmer (and his $12 million)?

Rumor has it there was a 2nd round pick or two being waved at Mike Brown last year. Stands to reason McKenzie could recoup a 2, maybe more. I expect that he'll be open to the idea. He certainly sounded like he would be.

Abaddon
01-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.

Who's "we"? "We" are McKenzie's team now, and he didn't have anything to do with Palmer's arrival. I full expect he'll entertain offers for Palmer.

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 01:53 PM
Rumor has it there was a 2nd round pick or two being waved at Mike Brown last year. Stands to reason McKenzie could recoup a 2, maybe more. I expect that he'll be open to the idea. He certainly sounded like he would be.

No...Oakland is not getting a 2nd rounder for Palmer...maybe a 3rd..if we're lucky.

SuperPacker
01-12-2012, 02:20 PM
I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.

You arent hoping Jerry Jones dies are you?

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 02:24 PM
You arent hoping Jerry Jones dies are you?

He has relinquished GM control before while not dying. Chances of it happening are always slim, but one can always hope Jerry brings in a football minded GM from a winning organization, hands him the keys and lets him do his job.

GaMeTiMe
01-12-2012, 02:24 PM
What kind of trade commodities do the Raiders have that they can dangle for picks? I'm sure there are a few young, promising players McKenzie is inheriting that he isn't quite fond of and other teams are. Maybe one of the top-3 WRs? Michael Bush under the franchise tag? A front 7 player that won't fit in the 3-4?


They're going to be running a new scheme on defense and are probably going to have to overhaul a lot of the defensive roster. That'll have to include some group of draft picks and I don't see how they don't add a pick or two from now until April.

SuperPacker
01-12-2012, 02:40 PM
This whole Oakland situation is fascinating! They have a draft and develop minded GM but have no draft picks, they have a QB that is overpaid and underperforming that RM has no ties too and they have a lot of players they could get rid of on big salaries which could free up money for free agents but then that would go against RM's philosophies. They are also changing defensive schemeso they have questions surrounding where to play players and what to do with the players that dont fit the scheme.

Oaklands offseason is definitely one to watch!

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 02:45 PM
Is it a sure thing we're switching schemes or is everyone just assuming we are?

TimmG6376
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
If the choice is Winston Moss he has experience in both 3-4 and 4-3 so scheme change may not be imminent.

SuperPacker
01-12-2012, 02:55 PM
Is it a sure thing we're switching schemes or is everyone just assuming we are?

I just assumed it was because everyone else is speaking like it is.

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 03:08 PM
I just assumed it was because everyone else is speaking like it is.

I'm a big 43 guy but idc either way, just wanted to know if it was a sure thing. A hybrid type D would be pretty awesome imo.

SuperPacker
01-12-2012, 03:38 PM
I'm a big 43 guy but idc either way, just wanted to know if it was a sure thing. A hybrid type D would be pretty awesome imo.

What would be the best fir for the players that you have? You could have Houston and Seymour/Kelly DE, Wimbley at ROLB, McClain and Curry at ILB but then you would maybe need to go and get a NT and a LOLB. You could stick with the 4-3 which seems like a better fit for the players you have.

Im a 3-4 guy though. I think a 3-4 with the right personel is better than a 4-3 with the right players however i dont agree with forcing players to play in places the shouldnt.

They could slowly build a 3-4 defense through the draft and free agency but that will be hard with no picks and RM prefering to not spend big in free agency.

Raiderz4Life
01-12-2012, 04:01 PM
What would be the best fir for the players that you have? You could have Houston and Seymour/Kelly DE, Wimbley at ROLB, McClain and Curry at ILB but then you would maybe need to go and get a NT and a LOLB. You could stick with the 4-3 which seems like a better fit for the players you have.

Im a 3-4 guy though. I think a 3-4 with the right personel is better than a 4-3 with the right players however i dont agree with forcing players to play in places the shouldnt.

They could slowly build a 3-4 defense through the draft and free agency but that will be hard with no picks and RM prefering to not spend big in free agency.

If we are going to switch a hybrid defense may be our best choice. Start getting the guys we're going to keep experience in the 3-4 while keeping the 4-3 as our base. NT will be our no. 1 priority since they're vital and I don't believe we had one. I still remember the last time we tried running the 3-4 with Sapp and Kelly at DE and Ted Washington and Terdell Sands at NT....*shivers*

LonghornsLegend
01-12-2012, 04:14 PM
Whatever defense it is, Lamaar Houston will be a stud in it. He's one of the more versatile players in the league, always has been.

RaiderNation
01-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Whatever defense it is, Lamaar Houston will be a stud in it. He's one of the more versatile players in the league, always has been.

He is a perfect fit in a 3-4 defense IMO, and we need to trade/cut some old over payed players like Seymour, Kelly, Henderson, Eugene and more. We can clear up a lot of cap space and really try to draft well in the 2013 draft. We could look to sign a F/A or 2 as well at key positions to help the transition. Palmer looks to be our QB next season for now. That could change once a hire is made at HC.

Ness
01-12-2012, 05:30 PM
The other day I thought firing Hue Jackson was the right move. Now I'm starting to have second thoughts. I think they should have kept him around another season. If it wasn't for that press conference where it seemed like he wasn't taking that much responsibility, I think he may still have his job. He was on the Rich Eisen podcast a day after he was fired, and it was interesting to hear what he had to say regarding to the entire season from the Palmer trade to his dismissal.

The team was looking pretty decent early on until Campbell got hurt and McFadden was out for the year as well. One thing I've learned this past decade with the 49ers is that a revolving door of head coaches and assistants really isn't going to work and starting over year after year when it's not done the first time is doomed to fail. That is something I think Al Davis really screwed up the franchise with before his death. The Raiders went 8-8 and could have won the division in the last week of the season. That isn't that bad considering the significant injuries the team faced. I would have given Jackson another year.

Maybe Reggie McKenzie can help. Wouldn't be surprised to see Carson Palmer out of there as well.

WCH
01-12-2012, 05:33 PM
This whole Oakland situation is fascinating! They have a draft and develop minded GM but have no draft picks, they have a QB that is overpaid and underperforming that RM has no ties too and they have a lot of players they could get rid of on big salaries which could free up money for free agents but then that would go against RM's philosophies. They are also changing defensive schemeso they have questions surrounding where to play players and what to do with the players that dont fit the scheme.

Oaklands offseason is definitely one to watch!

Has he said this? Do we know this for certain? RM was originally trained by Ron Wolf, and he loved to make a big splash in the Free Agent or trading market.

TimmG6376
01-12-2012, 06:28 PM
Has he said this? Do we know this for certain? RM was originally trained by Ron Wolf, and he loved to make a big splash in the Free Agent or trading market.

Good point. I think the assumption is that coming from the Packers he won't be much of a player in the FA market, however, those decisions are all Thompson. We don't know that McKenzie's stance on FA is as set in stone as TT. McKenzie may have been in favor of more FA acquisitions but Thompson ultimately made the call.

Abaddon
01-12-2012, 06:47 PM
I would have given Jackson another year.


And you would have set the franchise back a year in the process.

RaiderNation
01-12-2012, 11:06 PM
The Oakland Raiders have extending their list of potential head-coaching candidates to Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator Dom Capers, according to a league source.

Miami Dolphins interim coach Todd Bowles will interview for the Raiders' head-coaching vacancy on Friday, and numerous executives throughout the league expect new Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie to give strong consideration to longtime Packers assistant coach Winston Moss as well.

McKenzie, who was introduced by the Raiders on Tuesday, said he has a short list of candidates, but the offensive or defensive background of a coach will not influence the choice, and head-coaching experience isn't a prerequisite. He will give his head coach authority to hire his own staff.

Regardless, McKenzie is likely to be bringing more Packers personnel with him to Oakland. Teams are not permitted to interview Packers coaches until after their season ends.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d825f0ce7/article/packers-dc-capers-on-raiders-list-of-candidates?module=HP11_headline_stack

Capers is a proven defensive coach, and has HC experience already. He would do wonders with the talent we already have on defense...

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 03:19 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d825f0ce7/article/packers-dc-capers-on-raiders-list-of-candidates?module=HP11_headline_stack

Capers is a proven defensive coach, and has HC experience already. He would do wonders with the talent we already have on defense...

FFS! Are you just planning on taking every single one of our staff? Anyway i doubt Capers would even want to be a head coach. He seems pretty happy sitting in his box during games.

I know Capers has been getting a lot of blame for how 'bad' the defense is playing but its not even his fault! Matthews is getting double/triple teamed on every snap but everyone else on the team is incapable of rushing the passer. Im sick of Dom getting all the blame.

SuperPacker
01-13-2012, 03:23 AM
Has he said this? Do we know this for certain? RM was originally trained by Ron Wolf, and he loved to make a big splash in the Free Agent or trading market.

Just because of what he said about the Palmer trade. He said he likes his draft picks which told me right away he thought the trade was stupid and that if it was him he would if kept his picks and kept Boller.

Ness
01-13-2012, 04:35 AM
And you would have set the franchise back a year in the process.

That's what they said about the Texans keeping Kubiak.

The Raiders offense was coming together. It's the defense that was terrible.

WCH
01-13-2012, 05:32 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d825f0ce7/article/packers-dc-capers-on-raiders-list-of-candidates?module=HP11_headline_stack

Capers is a proven defensive coach, and has HC experience already. He would do wonders with the talent we already have on defense...

And his .375 winning percentage is why nobody other than RM is even rumored to be considering him.

Ness
01-13-2012, 06:15 AM
I wouln't be too thrilled with Capers as my head coach.

One winning season out of eight. And the other seven weren't even .500 seasons. All of them were losing ones.

DraftSavant
01-13-2012, 11:28 AM
I wouln't be too thrilled with Capers as my head coach.

One winning season out of eight. And the other seven weren't even .500 seasons. All of them were losing ones.

Two expansion teams, to be fair. I mean, ****, HOU just made the playoffs for the first year EVER.

Raiderz4Life
01-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Idk...not too excited about Capers either.

RaiderNation
01-13-2012, 01:31 PM
Idk...not too excited about Capers either.

I'm starting to doubt how accurate the report is, Capers is rumored to love being the DC in Green Bay and loves sitting up in the box instead of being on the sideline. I wouldn't rule him out yet, but I would say hiring a guy like Winston Moss is still the most likely thing to happen

BloodBrother
01-13-2012, 02:27 PM
I don't see McKenzie bringing in a retread/old guy like Capers as his first HC as GM of the Raiders.

Ness
01-13-2012, 06:49 PM
Two expansion teams, to be fair. I mean, ****, HOU just made the playoffs for the first year EVER.

Tom Coughlin had the same hurdle and had the Jaguars in the AFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise. Good coaching can do wonders.

Mufasa
01-13-2012, 06:53 PM
Tom Coughlin had the same hurdle and had the Jaguars in the AFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise. Good coaching can do wonders.

Dom Capers had the Panthers in the NFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise.

DraftSavant
01-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Tom Coughlin had the same hurdle and had the Jaguars in the AFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise. Good coaching can do wonders.

So did Capers.

Dom Capers had the Panthers in the NFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise.

What he said.

Abaddon
01-13-2012, 08:36 PM
That's what they said about the Texans keeping Kubiak.

The Raiders offense was coming together. It's the defense that was terrible.

As an OC, Jackson isn't so bad. As a HC, he's awful. Horrible game manager. No ability to make halftime adjustments. He's Norv Turner, but worse.

Abaddon
01-13-2012, 08:44 PM
Tom Coughlin had the same hurdle and had the Jaguars in the AFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise. Good coaching can do wonders.

Dom Capers had the Panthers in the NFC Championship game in just the second year of the franchise.

http://saptstrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/8e634c2b_homer-doh.jpg