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eltwentyone
01-09-2012, 07:14 PM
I made a thread a long time ago, My hate on matt Ryan longg agoo

Matt Ryan is going to be an average to borderline pro bowler, he cant take over games, he cant throw a good deep ball, Julio would be more dominant, 0-3 in the playoffs, not even athletic 4th and goal, lol DREW BREES GOAT, He needs

Now you got Jake Long a perennial pro bowler, your set for the next 10 years, but not big of an impact on the total team, a qb can adversely affect your record while a LT cant

SO now who do you choose,

I mma go for Long

Mufasa
01-09-2012, 07:25 PM
I think a lot less of Matt Ryan than most people, but he's still easily the answer. You need a QB in this league if you're going to do anything. A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT

Basileus777
01-09-2012, 09:44 PM
Even an above average quarterback is much more valuable than an all-pro left tackle.

LonghornsLegend
01-09-2012, 09:56 PM
I think this is a good question at this point. If Jake Long didn't just tear his biceps, I'd probably take him if I didn't have a QB or LT and knew what I was getting with both. I say that because I don't know about the recovery time with that injury so I'm gonna assume both are healthy.


Both positions are of very high importance, I'd rather take the elite player out of the bunch. There's an easier chance you can draft a Matt Ryan these days then a Jake Long IMO.

Matthew Jones
01-09-2012, 10:05 PM
Ryan over Long but there was no wrong answer to the "Matt Ryan, Jake Long, or Chris Long?" question.

Samson907
01-09-2012, 10:09 PM
I know its not black and white, but which team is better: Atlanta or Miami?

ATLDirtyBirds
01-09-2012, 10:15 PM
A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT

Bingo (10)

LonghornsLegend
01-09-2012, 10:16 PM
I know its not black and white, but which team is better: Atlanta or Miami?

They sure did start looking pretty good with Matt Moore and Jake Long though. I'd take that over Matt Ryan & Sam Baker to start my team.

Ness
01-09-2012, 11:02 PM
Matt Ryan. A very good quarterback gives you a better chance to win games than an All-Pro left tackle.

Brent
01-09-2012, 11:03 PM
A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT
yeah, for real, end thread.

SickwithIt1010
01-09-2012, 11:05 PM
Matt Ryan, wouldnt think twice about it...

...and I dont think highly of him.

BuddyCHRIST
01-09-2012, 11:22 PM
Matt Ryan no question and I'm also not a big fan. He has his limitations but he could be a SB winning QB. Atlanta is just not as good as they thought they were, adding Julio was an important move because they needed that explosiveness, but giving up all those picks really hurt.

They need a more consistent and explosive running game, Turner can be good if he gets his carries, but in the modern NFL its too hard to give a guy 25 carries up the gut when the other team is hitting big plays. They need a more versatile guy who can catch it out of the backfield and contribute in other ways. Ryan will never be an excellent deep thrower so they have to work around that.

And don't be foolish people, you'd really take Moore/Long over Ryan/Baker? This is not the first time a borderline starting QB has looked good to finish a season after they were basically playing with no risk. Moore did it already once in his career when he finished a season super hot with Carolina.

Miami would be stupid to not draft a QB, every consistent franchise has a great one. They've been trying to play with guys like Matt Moore ever since Marino retired.

TACKLE
01-09-2012, 11:26 PM
I guess I would take Ryan but I don't think they'd be a significantly better team with him instead of Long. They'd still be average to below average.

wogitalia
01-09-2012, 11:53 PM
I guess it becomes a question of what I have/get at the other position for who I'd take.

If I have nothing at either position though, you take the QB. 0-3 sure beats 0-0 in the playoffs and if you keep getting there eventually you might get hot(Manning, Brees, Rodgers had to lose before winning).

Ryan is a good enough prospect still to win a SB, maybe not carry a team to a SB, but you can certainly win with him and I think Atlanta are very well placed going forward(outside of having the Saints in their division and all).

I must add, I think that OT has become one of the least important positions on offense.

jsagan77
01-10-2012, 12:14 AM
I think if you gave Ryan a top 5 D he'd be a whole heck of a lot better in most peoples eyes. He carries that team into the playoffs every year and I'd be elated to have Ryan as a Skin and I would give up 2 1sts and a 2nd for him tomorrow.

Bengalsrocket
01-10-2012, 12:15 AM
Matt Ryan > Jake Long for a team's success.

DBNYDP
01-10-2012, 12:28 AM
I don't know if anyone is going to get what I'm going to say because I'm struggling to put it into words but you don't replace a top 10 QB for better or worse. I'm sure there are cases where it isn't true but like if you QB is in the top 10 it is near impossible for the FO to replace him. But if you have a decent QB like the 20th best in the league and the best LT, you can replace your QB. This probably sounds really stupid and I'm going to leave it up so maybe someone can understand what I'm trying to say. Hopefully I'll think of a better way to explain it.

To be clear I'd take Matt Ryan but in a hypothetical scenary with just like a rated QB I'd wonder what is best for the long term of your franchise.

descendency
01-10-2012, 12:48 AM
Even an above average quarterback is much more valuable than an all-pro left tackle.

This. People blame David Carr's OL for him being so bad now, but I blame David Carr's pocket presence.

Peyton Manning gets away with having a below average line because he has amazing pocket presence. Tom Brady's elite pocket presence gets under-rated because he's behind a very good OL.

But you won't see many QBs who have elite OLs in front of them that somehow magically learn to read defenses. If you can't, you just can't.

edit: the only debate here is whether the Falcons could have suckered someone to trade away a franchise for them for that pick instead of making it on an average QB.

edit2: How many 4-5 win seasons is Joe Thomas going to have to suffer through before they finally make the playoffs? He's clearly the best OT of his generation and he isn't even on an average team. Matt Ryan is an average QB on an average team.

Halsey
01-10-2012, 01:51 AM
Matt Ryan.

Burger
01-10-2012, 02:55 AM
I would take Jake Long everyday of the week. I do not think Matt Ryan has a very high ceiling. He proves over and over again that the team is carried by Michael Turner. The Falcons should of beat the Giants, but Ryan has screwed that up. Give me Jake Long, a great center, and another QB. What are the alternative QB and left tackle options for picking either one of those two?

Bulldogs
01-10-2012, 07:22 AM
I would take Jake Long everyday of the week. I do not think Matt Ryan has a very high ceiling. He proves over and over again that the team is carried by Michael Turner. The Falcons should of beat the Giants, but Ryan has screwed that up. Give me Jake Long, a great center, and another QB. What are the alternative QB and left tackle options for picking either one of those two?

Michael Turner is soft. This isn't to take anything from Joe Thomas and Jake Long, but look at their teams' success. A above-average QB is more valuable than an elite tackle.

the_dark_knight
01-10-2012, 07:31 AM
Matt Ryan, there is no debate here. He's on the doorstep to being an elite QB. Notice the performance of the Falcons offense with Ryan calling plays, vs when the OC Mike Mularkey was calling plays. Matt Ryan is Peyton 2.0 and he's only 4 years in. To be in playoff games 3/4 years is pretty dang good, the wins in the playoffs don't come easy, and Matt Ryan was not to fault for the Arizona or the New York losses. He could be blamed for the Green Bay loss however.

Making more hate threads isn't going to get you anywhere, and hating Matt Ryan just makes you look foolish.

Bulldogs
01-10-2012, 07:35 AM
I would like to clarify that most Falcons fans don't think Matt Ryan is actually Peyton 2.0. I do think he is much better than most people here give him credit for though. I've been very outspoken about how I believe he is a top 10 QB in the NFL. I believe this offseason with Julio and hopefully a new OC will finally push him to, in most people's minds, an elite QB. Would not be surprised at all to see him with 4500 yards, 30-35 TDs, and 10 INTs next season.

the_dark_knight
01-10-2012, 07:43 AM
I would like to clarify that most Falcons fans don't think Matt Ryan is actually Peyton 2.0. I do think he is much better than most people here give him credit for though. I've been very outspoken about how I believe he is a top 10 QB in the NFL. I believe this offseason with Julio and hopefully a new OC will finally push him to, in most people's minds, an elite QB. Would not be surprised at all to see him with 4500 yards, 30-35 TDs, and 10 INTs next season.

You can't speak for 'most' you might be able to speak for 'most' on this board but you cannot speak to 'most'.

There are more similarities between Peyton and Matt than I care to list. Matt isn't in Peyton's realm right now statistically, or with consistency or anything like that, no one's saying he is. Just wanted to point that out.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 07:54 AM
I'm torn on Matt Ryan. I don't know how I feel about him. There are qualities I like, he has good pocket presence, he's great btw the snaps, reading defenses, making protection adjustments, audibles, etc.

But there are also some qualities that make me dislike him. He has very questionable arm strength, inconsistent accuracy, and he's just gotta win a playoff game.

It's one thing if he had a great game vs the Giants and he came up short, but he was downright awful. Not looking downfield, making inaccurate throws, showing his lack of arm strength, getting outchecked by Boley at the LOS, he just had a bad game all over.

The arm strength issue is what it is, that's not going to magically disappear, but he's gotta win a playoff game. That's really hurting him in my eyes. The playoffs are when you really show what you are as a player, and he's just not getting it done.

jrdrylie
01-10-2012, 08:02 AM
Matt Ryan went to a team that had never had consecutive winning seasons. Now they have had four consecutive winning seasons and playoff appearances in 3 of 4 years.

Jake Long's team is 31-33 with one playoff appearance (and that was when Tom Brady was out for the year). Jake Long is a great offensive tackle. But when you compare his influence on the Dolphins and compare it to Ryan's influence on the Falcons, it isn't even close. Matt Ryan all day long.

LonghornsLegend
01-10-2012, 08:42 AM
It's one thing if he had a great game vs the Giants and he came up short, but he was downright awful. Not looking downfield, making inaccurate throws, showing his lack of arm strength, getting outchecked by Boley at the LOS, he just had a bad game all over.


That, and his statistics have dropped significantly in all 3 playoff games. He's had 3 bad games now in the playoffs, and not all those Falcons teams were just that bad either. It may not be a trend or anything, but I'm concerned when a franchise QB is good enough to produce in the regular season and get his team to the playoffs, then plays well below average once he gets there.


I'm fine with being in the minority on this one, if Matt Ryan needs a top 5 defense, a top 5 offensive line, and a million weapons around him to win a playoff game, how good is he really? I've heard about all those excuses, you give any decent QB that much help and he'd do well also.


If he had played as well as Stafford had, they probably win that game. Props to the Giants D no doubt, but I guess I'll just have to listen to excuses for Matt Ryan because his team isn't perfect. I'm not waiting for him to win a playoff game, but showing up for one would be nice.

JHL6719
01-10-2012, 09:17 AM
Matt Ryan.

Miami's offense was just fine at the end of the season with that bust guard from Ole Miss they took in the 3rd round a few years ago filling in at left tackle while Long was hurt.

I think they're both overrated, but at least Ryan can win you some games and who knows, give him a defense and he just might surprise you.

SuperPacker
01-10-2012, 10:38 AM
It depends what players you have. If you have Rodgers or Brees at QB then you take long but if you have Rex Grossman playing then you take Ryan.

Iamcanadian
01-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Atlanta, for the first time in their history has made the playoffs 4 years in a row, before they never made it twice in a row even with Vick.

Miami isn't near being a playoff team so taking Long was a huge mistake and who knows when they will be able to correct it. They broke the 'Golden Rule', always take a potential franchise QB if you don't have one, whenever the opportunity arises.

Is it Ryan's fault they haven't won a playoff game or should his HC and OC get some of the blame??? Ditto for Rivers in San Diego, is it his fault they haven't made the playoffs the last 2 years or is it Turner's problem???

I'd take Ryan everyday of the week over Long.

Mufasa
01-10-2012, 03:37 PM
It depends what players you have. If you have Rodgers or Brees at QB then you take long but if you have Rex Grossman playing then you take Ryan.

Well this post is rather dumb and worthless.

Complex
01-10-2012, 03:38 PM
Jake Long. Matt Ryan would not of made a difference in Miami.

jrdrylie
01-10-2012, 03:39 PM
Jake Long. Matt Ryan would not of made a difference in Miami.

Jake Long sure has made a huge difference in Miami.

FlyingElvis
01-10-2012, 03:50 PM
They sure did start looking pretty good with Matt Moore and Jake Long though. I'd take that over Matt Ryan & Sam Baker to start my team.

Honestly, I think that actually adds credence to his comment. Matt Moore was playing far better football than Henne and some of it without Long, so it seems QB is clearly more important.

Ryan is still the better choice. QBs make the difference. Great QBs with mediocre tackles can still dominate. The reverse does not hold true.

eltwentyone
01-10-2012, 05:25 PM
Matt Ryan is fooling the organization that they got a good team, like trading for Julio, I mean they completely neglected defensive side of the ball, and overpaid for players, with an Long you aint making those decisions.

We are not talking about QB vs LT, thats easy, go with QB ex Rivers, Rothlesberger etc. were talking about Matt Ryan and Jake Long.

Honestly, Matt Ryan is fools gold doe, man I drafted him thought he would kill it with Julio, Next year, we will see how consistent he is.

I dunno, I rather be in Dolphins position right now then Atlanta, got too much pressure, disappointment, next year when Atlanta makes it to the playoffs, how optimistic/excited you gonna be? can Matt Ryan lead? Really 2 points in a playoff game??? matches Ryans number, i didnt even watch the game, how da fook did they shut the O down.

Bulldogs
01-10-2012, 05:32 PM
Jake Long. Matt Ryan would not of made a difference in Miami.

And why not? He sure as hell made a difference in Atlanta. Keep in mind this prior to Matt Ryan being drafted, this team had NEVER had back to back winning seasons. That's unheard of. Since he's been drafted, we've never had a losing season. People don't realize how well he played down the stretch this year, sure he ****** the dog in the playoffs, but there was a combination of things that led to this. I'm telling you guys he's going to blow up next season, especially if we get an OC who isn't afraid to mix things up.

Bulldogs
01-10-2012, 05:35 PM
Matt Ryan is fooling the organization that they got a good team, like trading for Julio, I mean they completely neglected defensive side of the ball, and overpaid for players, with an Long you aint making those decisions.

We are not talking about QB vs LT, thats easy, go with QB ex Rivers, Rothlesberger etc. were talking about Matt Ryan and Jake Long.

Honestly, Matt Ryan is fools gold doe, man I drafted him thought he would kill it with Julio, Next year, we will see how consistent he is.

I dunno, I rather be in Dolphins position right now then Atlanta, got too much pressure, disappointment, next year when Atlanta makes it to the playoffs, how optimistic/excited you gonna be? can Matt Ryan lead? Really 2 points in a playoff game??? matches Ryans number, i didnt even watch the game, how da fook did they shut the O down.

It shows. The game wasn't solely on Ryan. Sure, I'll be the first to admit he didn't match his regular season success, but plenty things led to this. The game was called pretty poorly by the OC, the O-Line was awful, Turner couldn't do a thing, and Roddy White dropped four passes. Towards the end when they knew we had to pass, Ryan had no time in the pocket. Again, I'm not saying he played very well, but to put it on him solely is ridiculous. Stats don't always tell the story. You're the classic guy who plays fantasy football with a guy and think that determines the kind of player he is.

eltwentyone
01-10-2012, 05:36 PM
I'm telling you guys he's going to blow up next season, especially if we get an OC who isn't afraid to mix things up.

I am gonna sig this, I thought he was gonna blow up this year, Murlakey staying or going? but the game against the giants, was beyond horrible, Thats performance should not be coming from an experienced team, I watched a couple of games, he doesnt have a good arm, and throws a bad deep ball, so called hurry up apparently hes supposed to be good at is bs lol,

0-3 doe, thats classic, I am staying away from the falcons except Julio, dudes beast, how many deep balls had he caught this year, be reasonable.

why you blaming the 0-line doe>>>> whers that manning in Ryan :hah: Ryan should have been able to overcome that, games happen where there is no run game, cmon son, Ryan doesnt have it, so he needs a good run game, a good oc, good wr, good defense, LMAO Ryan aint worth it, reminds me of what people say of Cassel. how he took his team 11-5 to the playoffs with New England

Bulldogs
01-10-2012, 05:45 PM
I am gonna sig this, I thought he was gonna blow up this year, Murlakey staying or going? but the game against the giants, was beyond horrible, Thats performance should not be coming from an experienced team, I watched a couple of games, he doesnt have a good arm, and throws a bad deep ball, so called hurry up apparently hes supposed to be good at is bs lol,

0-3 doe, thats classic, I am staying away from the falcons except Julio, dudes beast, how many deep balls had he caught this year, be reasonable.

He's great at the hurry up. Mularkey is 50/50 right now by the way. Ryan transitioned slowly into this new offense we have going, compare the first half of this season to the second half. He was a whole different player.

eltwentyone
01-10-2012, 05:51 PM
He's great at the hurry up. Mularkey is 50/50 right now by the way. Ryan transitioned slowly into this new offense we have going, compare the first half of this season to the second half. He was a whole different player.

Alright so next year, Is make or break in your opinion for Matt Ryan?

FlyingElvis
01-11-2012, 08:57 AM
Alright so next year, Is make or break in your opinion for Matt Ryan?

lol. I think it's safe to say Bulldogs is sold on Ryan as a good QB. A winning season every year . . . tough to argue otherwise, honestly. His preseason fantasy hype train and subsequent failure to produce fantasy gold are irrelevant.

Every time I saw the Falcons play it looked like a team with an identity crisis on the offensive side. They have the weapons to run a full time passing attack like the other big-boys but don't want to abandon the run game. The two schools conflict and it shows. Get him better protection and open the offense up (Turner is looking too old for the heavy workload anyway) and I think we'd see a pretty sick showing by Ryan.

jrdrylie
01-11-2012, 09:22 AM
I dunno, I rather be in Dolphins position right now then Atlanta, got too much pressure, disappointment, next year when Atlanta makes it to the playoffs, how optimistic/excited you gonna be? can Matt Ryan lead? Really 2 points in a playoff game??? matches Ryans number, i didnt even watch the game, how da fook did they shut the O down.

So let me get this straight. You have the choice of two teams. The first is a team who will have four different coaches in seven seasons, no franchise QB in over a decade, no good chance of getting one in the draft this season, and one playoff appearance in the last ten years. The second team has a QB who has led them to four winning seasons and three playoff appearances in his first four years and the same coach for the last four years. And you would choose the first team? That is ridiculous.

Da-Phins
01-11-2012, 09:24 AM
Matt Ryan. You never pass on a potential franchise QB for an elite LT....NEVER. Last I check these top contenders have an above average/good LT but a franchise QB.

Mitchell
01-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Matt Ryan and this shouldn't and can't be argued.

As a Redskins fan, I saw Trent Williams play as well as any Left Tackle in the league this year (took him a couple games to get going). Ultimately, whether Rex Grossman had 5 more seconds or not, we were still going to lose the game with or without Trent.

If Matt Ryan is throwing the ball behind backup Willie Smith, we actually have a chance to win the game.

Left Tackles come AFTER franchise quarterbacks, unfortunately for some teams (Redskins included), there was no franchise quarterback available.

abaddon41_80
01-11-2012, 10:18 AM
For my team I think Long would offer a much bigger bigger improvement than Ryan but if I was starting a franchise from scratch it would be a harder choice. I suppose I would lean towards Ryan, even though Long is much better at his position, because I have always found the LT position to be incredibly overrated. With bad players on offense a great LT isn't going to make much of a difference. With bad players an average QB can have a greater impact.

Mitchell
01-11-2012, 10:24 AM
For my team I think Long would offer a much bigger bigger improvement than Ryan but if I was starting a franchise from scratch it would be a harder choice. I suppose I would lean towards Ryan, even though Long is much better at his position, because I have always found the LT position to be incredibly overrated. With bad players on offense a great LT isn't going to make much of a difference. With bad players an average QB can have a greater impact.

Answered your own question man, there's just no way to justify a franchise left tackle over a franchise quarterback. Matt Ryan isn't even that great of a franchise quarterback so far in his young career, but you still make the playoffs every year.

eltwentyone
01-11-2012, 02:46 PM
So let me get this straight. You have the choice of two teams. The first is a team who will have four different coaches in seven seasons, no franchise QB in over a decade, no good chance of getting one in the draft this season, and one playoff appearance in the last ten years. The second team has a QB who has led them to four winning seasons and three playoff appearances in his first four years and the same coach for the last four years. And you would choose the first team? That is ridiculous.


http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/234947/duYUy.jpg

jrdrylie
01-11-2012, 03:15 PM
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4443/jakelong.jpg

eltwentyone
01-11-2012, 03:47 PM
http://i.imgur.com/CgRcJ.jpg

Bulldogs
01-11-2012, 05:18 PM
http://i.imgur.com/CgRcJ.jpg

Good argument. The best rebuttal you've had thus far is "he didn't put up alot of fantasy points!!!".

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 05:47 PM
A very, very good (but not transcendent) left tackle (a devalued position) or a quarterback who hasn't showed that he can:

a) be the foundation of his offense
b) raise the performance of those around him and/or overcome their deficiencies

Not as cut and dry as it seems. What's the difference between Matt Ryan from, say, Matt Cassel other than where they were drafted?

I'll say this...I'm not jealous my team didn't have the first overall pick that year. :shrug:

Dangermouse
01-11-2012, 05:49 PM
Ryan - 4 winning seasons of 4, 3 playoff appearances.

Long - 1 winning season out of 4, 1 playoff appearance.


There's your answer.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 05:55 PM
Sedrick Ellis has more playoff games, wins, and a Superbowl ring. That's better than either Long or Ryan. Shoulda drafted him.

Why should Matt Ryan be attributed for Atlanta's success any more than, say, Michael Turner? The year they missed the playoffs, Turner was injured a lot. When he gets the ball a lot, they win.

Matt Ryan is not the foundation of the Atlanta offense. As such, this is much harder to quantify than people are making it out to be. How many other QBs could replicate what Ryan has done so far?

LonghornsLegend
01-11-2012, 06:06 PM
I think alot of people have forgotten that Miami went 11-5 in 2008 after drafting Jake Long. Just because in this scenario you may prefer to take Long isn't the same thing as saying "I'll take an elite LT and ignore QB forever". It's not Jake Long's fault that Miami thought Pat White was the answer.


It's also not like the team sucking is Jake Long's fault either. I don't even know that Miami is in the playoffs with Matt Ryan. ATL snuck in with a wildcard this season, and look at the group of weapons he was provided with. I'm supposed to think he'd somehow do better with what Miami has? Good QB's miss the playoffs all the time last time I checked.


I just don't think people should be trying to rationale the question by the shape the team is in. If Miami landed Andy Dalton would that be changing anyone's minds? Because it still wouldn't have anything to do with the question at hand.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 06:12 PM
I think alot of people have forgotten that Miami went 11-5 in 2008 after drafting Jake Long. Just because in this scenario you may prefer to take long isn't the same thing as saying "I'll take an elite LT and ignore QB forever". It's not Jake Long's fault that Miami thought Pat White was the answer.


It's not like the team sucking is Jake Long's fault. Also, I don't know that Miami is even in the playoffs with Matt Ryan. ATL snuck in with a wildcard this season, and look at the group of weapons he was provided with. I'm supposed to think he'd somehow do better with what Miami has? Good QB's miss the playoffs all the time last time I checked.


I just don't think people should be trying to rationale the question by the shape the team is in. If Miami landed Andy Dalton would that be changing anyone's minds? Because it still wouldn't have anything to do with the question at hand.

Boom. (10)

stl705
01-11-2012, 06:19 PM
Given what we know now, I'd still go with the All-Pro LT.

Yes, it's hard to find a franchise QB; but I don't believe it's impossible. I would rather shore up a spot on the most valuable spot on my O-line for a decade over a decent QB who you have to build a great team around.

I may be a bit of a gambler, but I'm looking for a franchise QB that can lead me to a superbowl. Personally, I'd draft a QB every other year if I can't find a good one. If I was the Jaguars, Browns, or Jets GM, I would certainly take RG3 if he's available or I can get him. Gabbert is not a starting NFL QB and I think that's clear (usually it takes a couple years to know, but Gabbert really is that bad).

There are legitimate franchise QBs available... may not be every year, but you can find them if you work hard enough. Let's give the Bears some credit for getting Cutler. Yes, a QB like Cutler isn't available except every 5-7 years through trade, but I think you can keep gambling on QBs if you think they will be great. Cincy did great with Dalton, obviously the Panthers had a great steal in Newton and Ponder/Locker are looking like they will be better than Ryan.

I can't bash Ryan too much because he's an average qb and better than half hte starters in the league; but in my opinion, if you're looking for a superbowl, you need a superbowl QB (unless you're team is absolutely stacked like the 00 Ravens).

Bengalsrocket
01-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Sometimes I wonder how we create the logic we use on this forum.

Does everyone realize that you cannot always get a QB as good as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady?

Sometimes as a franchise, you have to take a chance on a young guy who may not end up being hall of fame candidate - but as long as he's good enough to get you into the play offs then you have a shot.

If you're in a constant state of looking for a franchise QB that can compete with with top tier QB's then you'll end up like the Dolphins, who are perpetual losers as of late sitting on top of their "all-pro" franchise left tackle.

Certainly once the Dolphins do get their guy, that QB will be much better protected than Matt Ryan was as a rookie. But is it worth sacrificing the last 3 (or however many) while waiting for that QB?

Malaka
01-11-2012, 09:08 PM
The consensus has gone towards the QB because that is the "franchise," however, when was was the last time an average QB even won the Super Bowl?

The closest you can come up with is Eli in 2007, 5 years ago, and he has developed in to that Super Bowl capable, franchise QB. Even then he was mediocre, but playing at an elite level in the playoffs. Before that? Big Ben can be considered, Brad Johnson of the Bucs, and coincidentally only a few years before that Trent Dilfer. So since 2000 only 2, arguably, three QBs were average-to below average starters which everyone seems to be calling Matty Ice. Before 2000, you have to back to Mark Rypien in 94' and McMahon in 85'.

Every single team in between those 4/5 guys was a top performer. Favre, Warner, Young, Elway, P. Manning, Brady, etc. For arguments sake, let's do a statistical analysis on this matter. From 1990-2011, there have been 21 Super Bowls, and 5/21 gives you a 24% chance of winning the Super Bowl if you do not have an elite, franchise QB. Of course this is all just theory, but really I think it could have some weight as it seems to be more causation than correlation.

Moral of the story? Great QBs win Super Bowls not so much the just good ones. The general consensus is that Matt Ryan is an average one. Yeah, he's better than half the QBs in the league, but there's about 10 (give or take, not the point right now) I'll take over him.

Chances are slim I win won with him, and so I gotta go with Jake Long, and keep searching for that franchise guy. Sure, it's hard to quantify but that's part of the job description as an NFL GM. So I totally understand the pressure, but I still have to with the correct move and that's the better overall, pound for pound player-- Jake Long.

Mufasa
01-11-2012, 09:42 PM
When's the last time an elite LT won the Super Bowl? Jonathan Ogden 10 years ago. You can win Super Bowls with average tackles. I don't think Matt Ryan is all that great, but he's a QB you can win a Super Bowl with. Maybe he's not a guy that's going to win it for you, but you can win with him. Sure you'd rather have that elite guy that'll lead you there, but good luck finding one. You can spend the next 20 years looking for that and never have success. Matt Ryan will get you closer than Jake Long.

Caddy
01-11-2012, 11:05 PM
I'll take Matt Ryan. He is a great QB. I have nothing else to add.