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View Full Version : Demaryius Thomas vs. Julio Jones


whatadai
01-10-2012, 07:08 PM
Just looking for opinions on both of these guys...

I remember seeing scouting reports, maybe not from here, saying that Thomas is similar to Calvin Johnson...now I'm seeing people say Jones has talent that could be almost as good as Calvin Johnson. I think they're somewhat similar in several aspects of their play so I would just like to get a comparison on them.

Just wondering what you guys think about both players and how their current situations with their team, quarterback, etc. will affect their future production and progress?

eltwentyone
01-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Julio is INSANE, freak, A hybrid of Boldin and Fitsgerald

ElectricEye
01-10-2012, 07:15 PM
I was thinking about this a bit myself. I'll take Jones and feel pretty good about it, but I think both have a chance to develop into real nice players with similar playing styles. I really loved both of them coming out.

This is assuming Thomas stays healthy too. It's great to see him doing as well as he has been, but you certainly can't feel good about how many tough blows he's been dealt health wise so far.

ChiFan24
01-10-2012, 07:21 PM
I think people need to stop throwing Calvin Johnson comparisons around. Guy is Randy Moss circa 2003 in my mind. He makes his QB's job so much easier. Best WR in the NFL, no question in my mind.

To answer the question, I think Julio Jones is better than Bebe. He was my number 1 overall prospect in the past draft, and he didn't let me down.

niel89
01-10-2012, 07:28 PM
I like Demaryius Thomas but Jones is a clear better player. I wonder how Thomas is athletically compared to where he was pre achilles injury.

noondog
01-10-2012, 07:40 PM
Julio Jones is an unbelievable talent and it won't be long before he's a top 5 WR in the league.

While DeMaryius is gifted, he lacks that "it" that the special ones have. I don't expect him to come down with the tough grab or throw the sick stiff arm out of nowhere to break one off. Not saying he's never done either, but I just don't expect it of him. I do of Julio.

Denver Bronco56
01-10-2012, 10:47 PM
People fail to remember Demaryius coming out of college... guy was a FREAK

6'3, 235, and ran a 4.3 (Supposedly, Thomas once ran not a 4.18. But a 4.38-second 40 is recorded for him, which is nevertheless flying for a guy his size)


FEW guys have that kind of size and speed

Complex
01-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Julio Jones.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Demaryius is a very very talented receiver, but he struggles to stay on the field. It was crazy last year, he'd put up a big game here and there and in between be sitting on the sidelines in street clothes.

Bulldogs
01-11-2012, 12:01 AM
People fail to remember Demaryius coming out of college... guy was a FREAK

6'3, 235, and ran a 4.3 (Supposedly, Thomas once ran not a 4.18. But a 4.38-second 40 is recorded for him, which is nevertheless flying for a guy his size)


FEW guys have that kind of size and speed

Julio is 6'4, 220, ran a 4.38 on a bum foot. Had surgery on it the following week.

DBNYDP
01-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I think Jones is a little better athletically but I like the fact that Thomas is a bit bigger and is just tough to go down. Couple games this year where he consistently got the ball showed him carrying defenders with him, it was remarkable. As for hands I think its a wash, both drop some really easy passes and both make some great catches look easy.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 12:09 AM
Julio Jones is an unbelievable talent and it won't be long before he's a top 5 WR in the league.

While DeMaryius is gifted, he lacks that "it" that the special ones have. I don't expect him to come down with the tough grab or throw the sick stiff arm out of nowhere to break one off. Not saying he's never done either, but I just don't expect it of him. I do of Julio.


He just did that, this WEEK, to win an overtime playoff game.


Julio is 6'4, 220, ran a 4.38 on a bum foot. Had surgery on it the following week.

Nit picky, but he's more like 6'2.5.


I still like Julio better.

descendency
01-11-2012, 12:23 AM
CJ and Randy Moss ran a good 10th faster than both JJ and DT, in spite of being heavier. Both are nice athletes, but are not all world good like CJ and Moss were.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 12:27 AM
Number 1 receivers draw double and triple coverage. Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson dismantle double and triple coverage.

tjsunstein
01-11-2012, 12:27 AM
I love Demaryius Thomas but he isn't as complete as a WR as Julio is and you could get away with saying 'yet'.

Sloopy
01-11-2012, 09:25 AM
I love Demaryius Thomas but he isn't as complete as a WR as Julio is and you could get away with saying 'yet'.

I'll second this.

I will say that it's nice to see DT making progress after the injury. I remember a number of people thinking he would never come back from it

Vox Populi
01-11-2012, 10:53 AM
CJ and Randy Moss ran a good 10th faster than both JJ and DT, in spite of being heavier. Both are nice athletes, but are not all world good like CJ and Moss were.

Nitpicking here, but in what world was Moss heavier than either Thomas or Jones? They were both heavier than Moss ever was when they were still in college. The only guy in the NFL who compares favorably to Moss is AJ Green. There is no one else, and Green definitely isn't even close to athletic as Moss was when he was young and putting any effort into his game.

Julio Jones is built in the mold of Terrell Owens. Thomas is most like Brandon Marshall. Either way, Jones is the more talented and athletic receiver right now and regardless of the conservative offense that he plays in, he will have more opportunities for production than Thomas will in Denver unless Tebow significantly improves his game to the point that he doesn't have to rely on Thomas getting a few 50 yard catches per game. They both need to work on their concentration and eliminating drops though.

ElectricEye
01-11-2012, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't say Thomas is like Brandon Marshall. Marshall is a 4.5 possession guy. DT ran a 4.3. Shows up when watching them as well.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 11:14 AM
BeyBey kinda reminds me of the young, Green Bay version of Javon Walker (before his knees got completely shredded).

Vox Populi
01-11-2012, 11:37 AM
I wouldn't say Thomas is like Brandon Marshall. Marshall is a 4.5 possession guy. DT ran a 4.3. Shows up when watching them as well.

I was mostly talking about builds because of descendancy saying Moss was bigger (heavier) than both Thomas and Jones. Just like my AJ Green comparison doesn't really perfectly fit Moss' athleticism because of the significant differences in speed when Moss was young, its more about builds and the players sizes relating to their athleticism that was being discussed.

nepg
01-11-2012, 12:22 PM
Julio is already better and has more upside than Thomas. And I really like Thomas.

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 12:56 PM
I love Thomas, but at this point he's got a lot of learning to do. He's got the athletic ability but he's so far behind on the route precision that will allow his athletic ability to shine. He's got the deep route covered, and everyone saw his speed on display in a big way on that 80 yard touchdown.

The difference to me is that Julio just has a gear that BeyBey doesn't have. Not only is he a better route runner, and more physical, he's faster too. He may not have shown it on a broken foot with a 4.39 @ the combine, but watching him pull away from defenders vs watching BeyBey slightly pull away. It's just totally different realm of elite speed.

Julio to me at this point has already surpassed where Thomas is, and he has a higher ceiling as well. I love the big play ability of both guys, and I think that Thomas can develop into a nice #2 WR in the NFL, I don't ever see him being that #1 type guy, which I think Julio has already started to become in Atlanta. He hasn't eliminated Roddy, but given a full offseason and him staying healthy, I think he'll end up being the better ATL WR.

A Perfect Score
01-11-2012, 01:09 PM
The correct answer is AJ Green, he'll be better then both in the long run.

Denver Bronco56
01-11-2012, 01:10 PM
I will agree neither Jones or Thomas are in the class of athlete as Moss or Johnson Jr.

But both are EXTREMELY gifted...and i would say that with the offense that the broncos are running run, run, run hit it deep... if they continue that and tebow finally has an offseason to work on his technique thomas will continue to be a HUGE deep threat.

In college he averaged 25 yards a catch


Given that he is still coming back from injury and isnt a 100% but was still capable of doing what he has been able to i would say the sky is the limit

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-11-2012, 01:14 PM
I wouldn't say Thomas is like Brandon Marshall. Marshall is a 4.5 possession guy. DT ran a 4.3. Shows up when watching them as well.

Marshall isn't a "possession" guy, at least he wasn't in Denver. He's not the fastest guy, but that doesn't make him a possession receiver. He had tons of plays in Denver that were at least as impressive athletically as DT's last week.

wqv4Xa3Ur3I

Specifically at 0:25 is the play that most sticks in my mind. Then there was the GW TD against the Cowboys in his last year in Denver. The Denver version of Brandon Marshall was an ELITE receiver, as good as anyone now not named Calvin, Larry or Andre.

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 01:14 PM
The correct answer is AJ Green, he'll be better then both in the long run.

"better" or different?

I'll go with different. Julio is a more accomplished blocker (an underrated aspect of a WR) plus he's more physical, and just a different type of WR. Can't hate on AJ for the year he had, but statistically Julio per game was better than Green. But Green stayed healthy for the most part where Julio did not, so that's a + for Green.

I honestly think both are going to be phenomenal and I don't think either team got the 'worse' WR, but I think they are just different and both will end up in the top tier of WRs. Much like Harrison vs TO vs Moss. 3 different WRs who were all, all-time great talents at the position.

DBNYDP
01-11-2012, 01:36 PM
I think Thomas is going to be a better more versatile Marshall. Marshall was vertical threat for a pass happy Broncos in his last year, but that doesn't make him a very good vertical threat. His speed limits how much he is going to burn you deep and it isn't like Burress where he just destroys defenders in jump balls. Marshall has always been best on short routes where you give him a chance to get a lot of YAC, which is one of the reasons you seem him get close to 100 catches every year. I think Marshall is probably a bit stronger after the catch and breaks tackles with more ease but Thomas makes up for it with being a superior deep threat. He has elite speed (when healthy I think he's closer to 4.3 than 4.4 speed), and better vertical ability. Thomas is surprisingly not the dominant blocker that you would think coming Georgia Tech and possessing his size. He really needs to work on being more physical at the line, and he still needs to develop his route running. Against KC you saw how a physical corner can totally throw the guy off his route and shut him down, that can't happen when he's such a relied upon guy.

Punisher
01-11-2012, 01:38 PM
Marshall isn't a "possession" guy, at least he wasn't in Denver. He's not the fastest guy, but that doesn't make him a possession receiver. He had tons of plays in Denver that were at least as impressive athletically as DT's last week.

wqv4Xa3Ur3I

Specifically at 0:25 is the play that most sticks in my mind. Then there was the GW TD against the Cowboys in his last year in Denver. The Denver version of Brandon Marshall was an ELITE receiver, as good as anyone now not named Calvin, Larry or Andre.

Marshall has really declined since his days in Denver.

ElectricEye
01-11-2012, 01:45 PM
Marshall isn't a "possession" guy, at least he wasn't in Denver. He's not the fastest guy, but that doesn't make him a possession receiver. He had tons of plays in Denver that were at least as impressive athletically as DT's last week.

wqv4Xa3Ur3I

Specifically at 0:25 is the play that most sticks in my mind. Then there was the GW TD against the Cowboys in his last year in Denver. The Denver version of Brandon Marshall was an ELITE receiver, as good as anyone now not named Calvin, Larry or Andre.

I disagree completely. Every time I watched Marshall, even in the Denver days, I never really came away thinking he was super explosive. Nothing in that video changes my mind either. He's an athletic guy, and being a more of possession receiver doesn't make him a bad player(although I think he's fairly overrated at this point), but I don't see a guy who was ever as explosive as the two guys we're talking about.

Statistics are a dirty way to make an argument, but if you run 4.57 and average like 12 yards a catch for your career, you are what you are.

whatadai
01-11-2012, 01:46 PM
I love Thomas, but at this point he's got a lot of learning to do. He's got the athletic ability but he's so far behind on the route precision that will allow his athletic ability to shine. He's got the deep route covered, and everyone saw his speed on display in a big way on that 80 yard touchdown.

The difference to me is that Julio just has a gear that BeyBey doesn't have. Not only is he a better route runner, and more physical, he's faster too. He may not have shown it on a broken foot with a 4.39 @ the combine, but watching him pull away from defenders vs watching BeyBey slightly pull away. It's just totally different realm of elite speed.

Julio to me at this point has already surpassed where Thomas is, and he has a higher ceiling as well. I love the big play ability of both guys, and I think that Thomas can develop into a nice #2 WR in the NFL, I don't ever see him being that #1 type guy, which I think Julio has already started to become in Atlanta. He hasn't eliminated Roddy, but given a full offseason and him staying healthy, I think he'll end up being the better ATL WR.

I agree with everything here except Jones' speed being better than Thomas'. From memory I remember what plays you are talking about, but I don't remember the defensive backs that Jones pulled away from. DT was being chased down by some of the fastest DBs in the NFL right now on that 80 yard run. At best, I would say their speed is equal, but I don't think Jones is faster than DT.

I also don't get why everyone is already so quick to calling Jones a top 5 WR. I mean...it's obvious that Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson take the top 3...and there are many WRs that are arguable for the last 2 spots in the top 5. Not saying I can't see Green and Jones both being top 5, I just think people should stop rushing to conclusions so quickly after half a season, considering Jones missed a lot of games and disappeared for some.

That's another thing I want to ask. Talent-wise there aren't many knocks on DT except for his drops and his route running. However, Jones drops a lot of the same passes and they both have a history in dropping passes in clutch moments. DT's route running can be blamed on the GT system, but it's probably the easiest thing to improve for a WR in the NFL...people had the same "poor route running" comments on Calvin Johnson when he came out. Injury-wise, Jones has just been as "injury prone" as Thomas. DT has just been unlucky and he's clearly made a full recovery from his injuries. The biggest knock on Jones that I can see is that he disappears for some games. I watch the games and I'm not sure if he just hasn't acclimated to the NFL completely yet or if he doesn't run with a high motor. It seems as if he's running his route, just because he's suppose to run his route, not to get open and block out the DB. I can see why people rank Julio higher...he's had more success earlier in his career.

My point is, Julio Jones had a great WR across from him, a good QB, and overall a better offensive team surrounding him than Thomas. The week Thomas finally came back was when Tebow was just starting to take over the offense. They both needed time to acclimate with the system and to each other, and it has really shown at the end of the season how much more in tune they are with each other. While I don't like Tebow as a QB, I have to admit that he's been improving a bit, those throws in the wild card game were spot on for Thomas, but Thomas also showed his ability to burn a very fast/pro-bowl caliber CB, track balls, and catch with his hands. I also think people need to consider that Thomas is basically having his rookie season with a new offensive scheme and a new QB with a completely different skill set than before, and he didn't have an off-season with Tebow.

Basically, I think Jones and Thomas are very similar players and their success can be very similar. I see that Jones is currently the more complete WR with the better team surrounding him, which makes him the safer choice for success. But Thomas only needs to improve his route running and have a full off-season with Tebow, or get a real QB, to reach where Jones is at, which I think is very possible.

I don't know...I just think he's a dark horse for a breakout season next year and that people aren't giving credit where credit is due. And this is coming from a huge Raiders fan.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-11-2012, 01:49 PM
Marshall has really declined since his days in Denver.

He's still an 80 reception guy, too, which is crazy. But yeah, he's nowhere near the game breaker he was in Denver. You could almost think it's just a side effect of him not being with Cutler anymore, but he actually probably had his best year statistically with Orton. Thomas though has miles upon miles to go before he's half as good as Denver Brandon Marshall. Was a circus catch machine and a huge play just waiting to happen.

TimmG6376
01-11-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree with everything here except Jones' speed being better than Thomas'. From memory I remember what plays you are talking about, but I don't remember the defensive backs that Jones pulled away from. DT was being chased down by some of the fastest DBs in the NFL right now on that 80 yard run. At best, I would say their speed is equal, but I don't think Jones is faster than DT.

I call BS. Ike Taylor and Mundy are some of the fastest DBs in the NFL?

Punisher
01-11-2012, 01:51 PM
He's still an 80 reception guy, too, which is crazy. But yeah, he's nowhere near the game breaker he was in Denver. You could almost think it's just a side effect of him not being with Cutler anymore, but he actually probably had his best year statistically with Orton. Thomas though has miles upon miles to go before he's half as good as Denver Brandon Marshall. Was a circus catch machine and a huge play just waiting to happen.

As a Denver fan watching Cutler and Marshall regress makes me feel a lot better about not having these attitudes on our roster. I take a lot more pride in my team knowing they have a team mentality rather than a selfish one.

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 01:56 PM
You had a lot to say there, but I can verify that on multiple occasions that Julio pulled away from DBs that were just as fast as a guy like Taylor, who is not one of the fastest DBs in the NFL by any stretch of the imagination. Julio showed his speed not only on his 80 yard touchdown catch, but on those crossing routes where he out runs 3 different DBs with angles on that play.

Speed wise I know in shorts they're similar, but carrying pads, I'd easily take Jones over DT for speed.

I'm not speaking for others when I say this, but when I speak of them as top 5 WRs, I'm talking about once they've reached their potential, they are not there yet. They have a top 5 WR skillset, but still have a lot of time to prove it and do it.

DT is good, and I like him, but in my opinion he's not even in consideration to be a top 5 WR when compared to guys who are up and coming in his age range, To me it's clearly AJ and Julio having 2 of those future spots locked up, but I don't think Calvin will be knocked off that #1 spot for quite some time, he makes a decent QB look like a great talent.

whatadai
01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
I call BS. Ike Taylor and Mundy are some of the fastest DBs in the NFL?

The closest guys to him were Taylor and Mundy. Taylor is fast, Mundy is probably average. But he didn't give any other DB in that backfield a chance to even slightly catch up, even very quick/fast guys like Polamalu. He broke away from Ike Taylor easily. He also wasn't very open to begin with, he just blocked out Ike Taylor and Tebow threw it where Mundy couldn't get it. He also had stiff arms/attempted arm tackles on him during that run and that slows you down considerably. Considering he's not even a year removed from his achilles injury and it was still nagging him only a few months ago, I think people are underrating his speed.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
Something always was off about Marshall to me (and not the obvious, his brain).

It's weird, he's one guy that seemed like he made it look more difficult than he was. The most spectacular low YPC and low TD guy(relative to elites) ever....

Good receiver, never as explosive as some thought.

Punisher
01-11-2012, 01:59 PM
It should be no question Julio is, was, and always will be the better receiver. I'm just glad DT has come out, and when healthy(ugh) is a game changer. I had him pegged as a bust after his injury plagued first year.

whatadai
01-11-2012, 02:02 PM
You had a lot to say there, but I can verify that on multiple occasions that Julio pulled away from DBs that were just as fast as a guy like Taylor, who is not one of the fastest DBs in the NFL by any stretch of the imagination. Julio showed his speed not only on his 80 yard touchdown catch, but on those crossing routes where he out runs 3 different DBs with angles on that play.

Speed wise I know in shorts they're similar, but carrying pads, I'd easily take Jones over DT for speed.

I'm not speaking for others when I say this, but when I speak of them as top 5 WRs, I'm talking about once they've reached their potential, they are not there yet. They have a top 5 WR skillset, but still have a lot of time to prove it and do it.

DT is good, and I like him, but in my opinion he's not even in consideration to be a top 5 WR when compared to guys who are up and coming in his age range, To me it's clearly AJ and Julio having 2 of those future spots locked up, but I don't think Calvin will be knocked off that #1 spot for quite some time, he makes a decent QB look like a great talent.

Personally, I think Taylor is quite fast, what makes it seem like he isn't is his hips aren't very fluid so when he turns he slows down considerably. But I agree with everything else you said. I think Green and Jones both have a higher ceiling than DT, but everyone is making DT's ceiling seem like it's at above average at best, when I think he has top 10 talent if he improves his route running, stops getting injured, and has a QB instead of a FB throwing to him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-11-2012, 02:03 PM
I disagree completely. Every time I watched Marshall, even in the Denver days, I never really came away thinking he was super explosive. Nothing in that video changes my mind either. He's an athletic guy, and being a more of possession receiver doesn't make him a bad player(although I think he's fairly overrated at this point), but I don't see a guy who was ever as explosive as the two guys we're talking about.

Statistics are a dirty way to make an argument, but if you run 4.57 and average like 12 yards a catch for your career, you are what you are.

During his Denver career, he was able to get open deep when they went to him, but most of the time, he ran underneath routes. He was a lock 100 receptions, and any time you're thrown to that often, it's going to drive your average down(unless you're Calvin Johnson). And I really don't care how explosive DT is in shorts on a track, Brandon Marshall was every bit as explosive on the field. You can't rack up as many YAC as he did without being able to distance yourself from defenders. Even when he broke tackles to get those yards, he still ran away from the ones who didn't get him.

Punisher
01-11-2012, 02:11 PM
During his Denver career, he was able to get open deep when they went to him, but most of the time, he ran underneath routes. He was a lock 100 receptions, and any time you're thrown to that often, it's going to drive your average down(unless you're Calvin Johnson). And I really don't care how explosive DT is in shorts on a track, Brandon Marshall was every bit as explosive on the field. You can't rack up as many YAC as he did without being able to distance yourself from defenders. Even when he broke tackles to get those yards, he still ran away from the ones who didn't get him.

I feel like he's basing his assessment off of Marshall's play now with the Dolphins. If that is the case, then I agree, he is not as explosive as he once was. Watching his highlight from Denver, and watching him now in Miami feels like watching 2 different players as far as explosiveness.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-11-2012, 02:11 PM
Something always was off about Marshall to me (and not the obvious, his brain).

It's weird, he's one guy that seemed like he made it look more difficult than he was. The most spectacular low YPC and low TD guy(relative to elites) ever....

Good receiver, never as explosive as some thought.

The low TD thing was something that really plagued the whole team. All the Denver fans can tell you about how bad the playcalling was in the red zone under Mike Shanahan. It was weird to have one of the best offenses yardage wise that just stagnated inside the 20. The year Shanahan left, even working with an inferior QB in Orton, he was able to top 10 TDs for the first(and only, so far) time in his career. I'll definitely concede the point that he was never on the very top tier, where Andre, Fitz and Megatron are now, but he was just below.

I still think his YPC was pushed down just based on how he was utilized. He was the go to guy, and the safety valve, and had a lot of hitches run for him. There are plenty of instances of him getting open deep for scores, he just ran shorter high percentage routes because he was capable of turning those easy completions into larger gains, which he often did. Even being really pass heavy those years, even with a Jay Cutler, the offense wasn't really that vertical.

Vox Populi
01-11-2012, 03:02 PM
I think people are forgetting how terrible Cutler was in the redzone early in his career. He had like double digit end/redzone picks or something when he was in Denver, and because Marshall dropped quite a few redzone touchdown passes this year they think that its always been that way.

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 03:12 PM
The closest guys to him were Taylor and Mundy. Taylor is fast, Mundy is probably average. But he didn't give any other DB in that backfield a chance to even slightly catch up, even very quick/fast guys like Polamalu. He broke away from Ike Taylor easily. He also wasn't very open to begin with, he just blocked out Ike Taylor and Tebow threw it where Mundy couldn't get it. He also had stiff arms/attempted arm tackles on him during that run and that slows you down considerably. Considering he's not even a year removed from his achilles injury and it was still nagging him only a few months ago, I think people are underrating his speed.

Taylor is fast in Madden, he's not fast on the field. Sorry, he's just not.

You wanna talk about slowing down, the stiff arm actually sped him up by pushing off the other guy and it boosted his speed. Did he let him catch up, no, but he didn't really pull away. Watch Julio's touchdowns, he doesn't just pull away, he absolutely devastates the defenders to the point that when he shows them his heels they can't even continue. When I see a guy pull away like Julio did on several plays this year, where he's pulling away by yards instead of feet, it's just a different level.

It's not that DT isn't fast, he is, and he's very fast out of pads. But sometimes it doesn't translate, and that's where someone like Julio stands out. He carries his pads as if they're just part of him and doesn't lose speed in pads, where some drop a full tenth or more, Julio seems to play as fast as his timed speed.

ElectricEye
01-11-2012, 03:19 PM
During his Denver career, he was able to get open deep when they went to him, but most of the time, he ran underneath routes. He was a lock 100 receptions, and any time you're thrown to that often, it's going to drive your average down(unless you're Calvin Johnson). And I really don't care how explosive DT is in shorts on a track, Brandon Marshall was every bit as explosive on the field. You can't rack up as many YAC as he did without being able to distance yourself from defenders. Even when he broke tackles to get those yards, he still ran away from the ones who didn't get him.

...which makes him more of a possession receiver. He was/is better at working underneath and picking up yards after the catch because of his size and how tough he is to tackle in the open field.

You're making it out like it's a dirty word. It really isn't. I'm just going to have to flat out disagree with him being explosive too. I don't worry about Brandon Marshall burning me deep at all and his statistics reflect that....nor does the film. I would agree with you about the way he was utilized if it changed when he went to Miami. It really hasn't. His numbers are better, but Miami sending him down the field has really exposed the fact that his hands run really hot and cold too.


Something always was off about Marshall to me (and not the obvious, his brain).

It's weird, he's one guy that seemed like he made it look more difficult than he was. The most spectacular low YPC and low TD guy(relative to elites) ever....

Good receiver, never as explosive as some thought.
Yeah, this is basically where I am too. Good player, but I wouldn't have ever called him an elite receiver, even when he was putting up numbers.

K Train
01-11-2012, 03:37 PM
im taking julio every single time and its not even remotely close. Julio was one of the best non calvin WR prospect ive ever seen (AJ too) both easily had top 5 grades....thomas was the first WR taken just because Dez was an ass.

He'll never be anything close to what julio will be imo, even though he made ike taylor look like a fool, im not buying into it

Timbathia
01-11-2012, 04:29 PM
The low TD thing was something that really plagued the whole team. All the Denver fans can tell you about how bad the playcalling was in the red zone under Mike Shanahan. It was weird to have one of the best offenses yardage wise that just stagnated inside the 20. The year Shanahan left, even working with an inferior QB in Orton, he was able to top 10 TDs for the first(and only, so far) time in his career. I'll definitely concede the point that he was never on the very top tier, where Andre, Fitz and Megatron are now, but he was just below.

I still think his YPC was pushed down just based on how he was utilized. He was the go to guy, and the safety valve, and had a lot of hitches run for him. There are plenty of instances of him getting open deep for scores, he just ran shorter high percentage routes because he was capable of turning those easy completions into larger gains, which he often did. Even being really pass heavy those years, even with a Jay Cutler, the offense wasn't really that vertical.

IMO the biggest problem with Marshall in the vertical game during his time in Denver is that he was never particularly great catching the ball over his shoulder. Great hands facing the ball (short and intermediate routes), but nowhere near as good as the elite guys when running with it. With guys like Moss, Megatron, etc. if they are going deep in single coverage you always throw it and you always expect they will come down with it. I never felt that way with Marshall.

Denver Bronco56
01-11-2012, 06:26 PM
"Despite his inexperience and lack of consistent play in college,[2] the Pittsburgh Steelers selected Taylor in the fourth round (125th overall) in the 2003 NFL Draft.[6] The selection was made based primarily on Taylor's rare combination of size and speed — leading up to the draft, he was timed as fast as 4.18 seconds in the 40-yard dash. However, most NFL coaches and general managers still failed to see his potential.[3][5]"


Thomas DUSTED a player that ran a 4.18 at one point.. i dont care if he is a little older, Taylor was sprinter speed fast

Punisher
01-11-2012, 06:39 PM
"Despite his inexperience and lack of consistent play in college,[2] the Pittsburgh Steelers selected Taylor in the fourth round (125th overall) in the 2003 NFL Draft.[6] The selection was made based primarily on Taylor's rare combination of size and speed — leading up to the draft, he was timed as fast as 4.18 seconds in the 40-yard dash. However, most NFL coaches and general managers still failed to see his potential.[3][5]"


Thomas DUSTED a player that ran a 4.18 at one point.. i dont care if he is a little older, Taylor was sprinter speed fast

Please just stop. Ike Taylor is not Deion Sanders. He is not that fast.

I hope that was simple enough for you.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 06:50 PM
"Despite his inexperience and lack of consistent play in college,[2] the Pittsburgh Steelers selected Taylor in the fourth round (125th overall) in the 2003 NFL Draft.[6] The selection was made based primarily on Taylor's rare combination of size and speed — leading up to the draft, he was timed as fast as 4.18 seconds in the 40-yard dash. However, most NFL coaches and general managers still failed to see his potential.[3][5]"


Thomas DUSTED a player that ran a 4.18 at one point.. i dont care if he is a little older, Taylor was sprinter speed fast

Not sure if srs...

BamaFalcon59
01-11-2012, 06:50 PM
Taylor is fast as hell.

Or he was, at one point.

Either way, Demaryius Thomas is definitely a top-notch athlete.

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 06:51 PM
He was fast, but never 4.18 fast. That's just absurd.

And he's 31 now, and I'd venture to guess runs no faster than a 4.5 at this point.

Denver Bronco56
01-11-2012, 06:57 PM
I have found numerous sources stating Taylor running a 4.18.... so yea that was pretty serious... and even at 31 he is probably still a 4.3 guy... He has WHEELS

DraftSavant
01-11-2012, 07:14 PM
And I can find numerous sources saying Kevin Jones ran a 4.2 at VT. Doesn't mean it's true. It is not humanly possible to run in the 4.1s.

K Train
01-11-2012, 07:17 PM
He was fast, but never 4.18 fast. That's just absurd.

And he's 31 now, and I'd venture to guess runs no faster than a 4.5 at this point.

hes still the fastest DB we have, probably in the 4.3s easily still...he trains all year long, he hasnt lost a step.

he got stiff armed by thomas and abused all day but he DID WORK on WRs this year

Ike Taylor’s 2011 season by receiver
A.J. Green, Cincinnati 6-87 yards, TD
Demaryius Thomas, Denver 4-204 yards, TD
Wes Welker, New England 4-23 yards
Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona 3-58 yards
Brandon Lloyd, St. Louis 3-39 yards
Anquan Boldin, Baltimore 3-35 yards
Andre Johnson, Houston 3-23 yards
Michael Crabtree, SF 3-23 yards
Jonathan Baldwin, KC 2-26 yards
Nate Washington, Tenn 2-11 yards
Dwayne Bowe, KC 1-25 yards
Mohamed Massaquoi, Clev 1-25 yards
Rob Housler, Arizona 1-20 yards
Steve Breaston, KC 1-18 yards
Jason Hill, Jacksonville 1-18 yards, TD
Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis 1-11 yards
Deion Branch, New England 1-10 yards
Josh Cribbs, Cleveland 1-10 yards
Mike Williams, Seattle 1-9 yards
Damian Williams, Tennessee 1-8 yards
Mike Thomas, Jacksonville 1-3 yards
Torrey Smith, Baltimore 1-2 yards
Pierre Garcon, Indianapolis 1-(-2) yards
46 catches 686 yds. 3 TD's

Bucs_Rule
01-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Top 10 Fastest 40 Yard Dash Times in History (since 2000 when times were recorded electronically)

4.24: Chris Johnson, RB, East Carolina (2008)

Unofficially Bo Jackson was fastest with 4.12

http://www.muscleprodigy.com/fastest-40-yard-dash-times-in-nfl-history-arcl-1122.html

Rosebud
01-11-2012, 09:06 PM
As a Denver fan watching Cutler and Marshall regress makes me feel a lot better about not having these attitudes on our roster. I take a lot more pride in my team knowing they have a team mentality rather than a selfish one.

Go Tebow and what not but Jay Cutler's regressing? When the **** did this happen?

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 09:27 PM
And I can find numerous sources saying Kevin Jones ran a 4.2 at VT. Doesn't mean it's true. It is not humanly possible to run in the 4.1s.

And no one will ever run a 4 min mile either...oh wait. Don't talk when you don't know bro, just makes you look bad. Sanders ran in the 4.1s, that dude from new Orleans who used to drive a garbage truck for a little while ran in the 4.1s that's how he even made the team.

the_dark_knight
01-11-2012, 09:30 PM
I have found numerous sources stating Taylor running a 4.18.... so yea that was pretty serious... and even at 31 he is probably still a 4.3 guy... He has WHEELS

He's far from 4.3, he couldn't touch dudes runnin in the 4.3s, he'd look stupid. He's easily in the 4.5s maybe even 4.6s at this point.

whatadai
01-11-2012, 11:22 PM
hes still the fastest DB we have, probably in the 4.3s easily still...he trains all year long, he hasnt lost a step.

he got stiff armed by thomas and abused all day but he DID WORK on WRs this year

Ike Taylor’s 2011 season by receiver
A.J. Green, Cincinnati 6-87 yards, TD
Demaryius Thomas, Denver 4-204 yards, TD
Wes Welker, New England 4-23 yards
Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona 3-58 yards
Brandon Lloyd, St. Louis 3-39 yards
Anquan Boldin, Baltimore 3-35 yards
Andre Johnson, Houston 3-23 yards
Michael Crabtree, SF 3-23 yards
Jonathan Baldwin, KC 2-26 yards
Nate Washington, Tenn 2-11 yards
Dwayne Bowe, KC 1-25 yards
Mohamed Massaquoi, Clev 1-25 yards
Rob Housler, Arizona 1-20 yards
Steve Breaston, KC 1-18 yards
Jason Hill, Jacksonville 1-18 yards, TD
Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis 1-11 yards
Deion Branch, New England 1-10 yards
Josh Cribbs, Cleveland 1-10 yards
Mike Williams, Seattle 1-9 yards
Damian Williams, Tennessee 1-8 yards
Mike Thomas, Jacksonville 1-3 yards
Torrey Smith, Baltimore 1-2 yards
Pierre Garcon, Indianapolis 1-(-2) yards
46 catches 686 yds. 3 TD's

Probably not 4.18 fast, but I wouldn't be surprised of 4.4 fast. He's the fastest player on the Steelers...Wallace is the only one who might give him competition for that title. He doesn't look fast in games because his hips are not very fluid so he loses a step when he turns, that's why no one sees that speed. CBs also stick to their WRs...they don't burn a WR...so no one sees his true speed...and he rarely ever has to catch up with any WRs. I don't get why people say Taylor isn't fast.

Saints-Tigers
01-11-2012, 11:47 PM
Michael Lewis wasn't even nearly a 4.1 guy. AND IT WAS BEER TRUCKS.

Man I miss the BEer Man, what a people's champ.

the_dark_knight
01-12-2012, 07:43 AM
Michael Lewis wasn't even nearly a 4.1 guy. AND IT WAS BEER TRUCKS.

Man I miss the BEer Man, what a people's champ.

I beg to differ, there were multiple reports of him running in the 4.1s, that's how he even got a tryout with the team. I remember being amazed that a guy driving a beer truck (thanks for correction) even got a try out with an NFL team. Now, those reports may have been totally bogus, but that's what they said many times on different broadcasts I heard of Stains games.

Trogdor
01-12-2012, 07:55 AM
And I can find numerous sources saying Kevin Jones ran a 4.2 at VT. Doesn't mean it's true. It is not humanly possible to run in the 4.1s.

The fastest recorded 40 yard split on record belongs to Olympian Maurice Greene. During his World Record 60 meter run of 6.33, a mark that still exists, Green crossed the 40 yard mark at 4.18. Remembering that .25 seconds must be subtracted from that time due to Accu-track timing and you come up with a 40 yard dash time of 3.93 seconds.

Reason for the .25 seconds is because that is counting the firing of the starting gun which he reacted to rather than "accu-track" which begins on movement. Perfectly human to run a 4.1, 4.0, hell 3.93 :P

Running times in shorts, indoors, and on a synth track means absolutely nothing compared to a 40 time with full pads on grass/turf with cleats though.

Timbathia
01-12-2012, 04:24 PM
Running times in shorts, indoors, and on a synth track means absolutely nothing compared to a 40 time with full pads on grass/turf with cleats though.

Not to mention that it was at the END of a football game. Fatigue, etc., come into the equation as well. 40 yards dashes are heavily influenced by reaction time and how quickly you can get to your top speed. In the play we are discussing it was almost purely about top speed and how well they can maintain it. 40 yard times are mostly irrelevant.

LonghornsLegend
01-13-2012, 04:03 PM
Give me Julio. At least people have the right to be excited about him, he put up a good season beginning to end, not just a good game, or a good month. He's big, strong, can beat you over the top or underneath, everything you could ask for.


I was a very, very big DT fan coming out of Tech, but he's getting way too much love for a guy who has been hurt quite a bit and hasn't strung together enough consistency yet. His stats may suffer because of Tebow, but keep in mind when Denver throws nobody is expecting it so you have the element of surprise on top of very little coverage.


How about we see him play a full season, 14-16 games, beating double coverages, and produce at a high level first? I do like what I've seen out of him to close the season, but I need to see way more consistency before hopping all over him, and how he handles it when he's the focus of the defense.

whatadai
01-13-2012, 05:02 PM
How about we see him play a full season, 14-16 games, beating double coverages, and produce at a high level first? I do like what I've seen out of him to close the season, but I need to see way more consistency before hopping all over him, and how he handles it when he's the focus of the defense.

You can say all of this about Julio too. He hasn't played 14-16 games. He hasn't beaten double coverage. He hasn't produced at a high level consistently. Roddy White is still the focus of defenses.

Demaryius Thomas is the #1 on his team and gets #1 CBs on his team already unlike Julio...he's been pretty consistent for over a month so far.

I'm not saying Thomas is any sure thing...but Julio is the one getting all this love when Thomas hasn't been far behind in his production and what he's done on the field.