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BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 08:09 AM
Baltimore at New England - Sunday 3:00pm EST

NY Giants at San Fran - Sunday 6:30pm EST


For the first time in years I don't really have a rooting interest/team I hate in the playoffs. (Last year it was the Packers, before that, the Colts and Eagles took turns as my most hated teams.)

Giants/49ers is going to be a great game I think. Both teams are playing at even higher levels than when they first, and that was a great game. I'm pulling for the 49ers because I like what Harbaugh has done there, but my gut tells me the Giants win that one close.

I think the Patriots might level Baltimore. I hope I'm wrong and that it's a good game, but the Patriots are playing with a fire that I haven't seen out of them in years while the Ravens...barely beat the Texans when gifted with turnovers. How Cam Cameron runs the Ravens offense will determine this one I think. I'm saying Patriots by two scores for right now though.

CJSchneider
01-17-2012, 08:25 AM
My initial non-homer wish for a Harbaugh Super-Bowl still remains possible.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 08:42 AM
Baltimore at New England - Sunday 3:00pm EST

NY Giants at San Fran - Sunday 6:30pm EST


For the first time in years I don't really have a rooting interest/team I hate in the playoffs. (Last year it was the Packers, before that, the Colts and Eagles took turns as my most hated teams.)

Giants/49ers is going to be a great game I think. Both teams are playing at even higher levels than when they first, and that was a great game. I'm pulling for the 49ers because I like what Harbaugh has done there, but my gut tells me the Giants win that one close.

I think the Patriots might level Baltimore. I hope I'm wrong and that it's a good game, but the Patriots are playing with a fire that I haven't seen out of them in years while the Ravens...barely beat the Texans when gifted with turnovers. How Cam Cameron runs the Ravens offense will determine this one I think. I'm saying Patriots by two scores for right now though.

The media disagrees with you on Baltimore. NFLN ESPN etc are preaching that New England isn't physical enough and won't last.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 08:46 AM
The media disagrees with you on Baltimore. NFLN ESPN etc are preaching that New England isn't physical enough and won't last.

The media...idiots. All of them. Pandering to the masses. The Ravens defense is somewhat overrated. They got no pass rush last week, and granted, the Patriots o-line isn't as good as the Texans, but Brady being significantly better than Yates makes up for that. I anticipate Gronk having another big day, and they can always include more to Welker, something they didn't even need to do against Denver.

Raiderz4Life
01-17-2012, 08:53 AM
The Ravens are my team for the playoffs but man...Flacco and Cam Cam are killing them...if someone doesn't do an intervention with Cam he'll run....eerr...pass...this team put of the playoffs.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:01 AM
The Ravens are my team for the playoffs but man...Flacco and Cam Cam are killing them...if someone doesn't do an intervention with Cam he'll run....eerr...pass...this team put of the playoffs.

I'm telling ya what I see happening. Ravens get the ball first, run twice with Ray Rice for minimal gains, incomplete pass on 3rd down. The Pats get the ball and Brady takes them straight in for a TD.

Joe Flacco throws 63 times and Ray Rice touches the ball 6 times for the rest of the game. Pats win big.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:10 AM
I'm telling ya what I see happening. Ravens get the ball first, run twice with Ray Rice for minimal gains, incomplete pass on 3rd down. The Pats get the ball and Brady takes them straight in for a TD.

Joe Flacco throws 63 times and Ray Rice touches the ball 6 times for the rest of the game. Pats win big.

You could certainly be right. I don't think BB is going to let Rice run. He'll just let Flacco throw and be patient and wait for his mistakes.

A Perfect Score
01-17-2012, 09:16 AM
I'm telling ya what I see happening. Ravens get the ball first, run twice with Ray Rice for minimal gains, incomplete pass on 3rd down. The Pats get the ball and Brady takes them straight in for a TD.

Joe Flacco throws 63 times and Ray Rice touches the ball 6 times for the rest of the game. Pats win big.

Stop saying this, I am having nightmares you dick. And I need my sleep.

I don't agree that the Ravens defense is overrated. I know we've often been susceptible to big plays, especially in the back end, but there is quite literally no other defense I'd want in the playoffs then ours. Yeah, the Niners can play some great defense, but give me Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in the playoffs every time. Not to mention, I fully expect Terrell Suggs to have multiple sacks this game. No way does he get held in check 2 weeks in a row.

I honestly believe that if we run the football, beat the living piss out of Gronk and Hernandez at the LoS and don't give them free releases, and keep ******* Flacco upright, that we'll take this game home.

Commie and I were talking in IRC the other day about how Ed Reed might be the best player left in the NFL without a ring. He's arguably a Top 5 player at his position, ever.

Shane P. Hallam
01-17-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm telling ya what I see happening. Ravens get the ball first, run twice with Ray Rice for minimal gains, incomplete pass on 3rd down. The Pats get the ball and Brady takes them straight in for a TD.

Joe Flacco throws 63 times and Ray Rice touches the ball 6 times for the rest of the game. Pats win big.

Vegas agrees, and I trust Vegas.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Commie and I were talking in IRC the other day about how Ed Reed might be the best player left in the NFL without a ring. He's arguably a Top 5 player at his position, ever.

Except he's extremely average now. Painfully average. People will get fooled by his INT and near INTs last week that he is in full form again. He's not. Yates is just terrible. Although I saw Ed Reed make a tackle this weekend after Lewis whiffed on one. First one in like 3 years. If he ever tried to cover Hernandez or Gronk he'll be on the sideline hurt by halftime.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Stop saying this, I am having nightmares you dick. And I need my sleep.

I don't agree that the Ravens defense is overrated. I know we've often been susceptible to big plays, especially in the back end, but there is quite literally no other defense I'd want in the playoffs then ours. Yeah, the Niners can play some great defense, but give me Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in the playoffs every time. Not to mention, I fully expect Terrell Suggs to have multiple sacks this game. No way does he get held in check 2 weeks in a row.

I honestly believe that if we run the football, beat the living piss out of Gronk and Hernandez at the LoS and don't give them free releases, and keep ******* Flacco upright, that we'll take this game home.

Commie and I were talking in IRC the other day about how Ed Reed might be the best player left in the NFL without a ring. He's arguably a Top 5 player at his position, ever.

Who beats up the TEs off the line? Do you sacrifice your pass rush to do so?

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 09:21 AM
Who beats up the TEs off the line? Do you sacrifice your pass rush to do so?

Plus Hernandez lines up the backfield a ton. Seems like they did it even more than usual against the Broncos.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:24 AM
Plus Hernandez lines up the backfield a ton. Seems like they did it even more than usual against the Broncos.

I don't think anyone realizes what an effect that has. Teams see the personel and think hey empty backfield spread.

They send out personel accordingly and got burnt when an RB lined up.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:24 AM
Stop saying this, I am having nightmares you dick. And I need my sleep.

I don't agree that the Ravens defense is overrated. I know we've often been susceptible to big plays, especially in the back end, but there is quite literally no other defense I'd want in the playoffs then ours. Yeah, the Niners can play some great defense, but give me Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in the playoffs every time. Not to mention, I fully expect Terrell Suggs to have multiple sacks this game. No way does he get held in check 2 weeks in a row.

I honestly believe that if we run the football, beat the living piss out of Gronk and Hernandez at the LoS and don't give them free releases, and keep ******* Flacco upright, that we'll take this game home.

Commie and I were talking in IRC the other day about how Ed Reed might be the best player left in the NFL without a ring. He's arguably a Top 5 player at his position, ever.

http://i.imgur.com/JmUTj.jpg

APS, I don't say these things to hurt you, I say them because I feel that they are true.

As has been said, Belichick is almost certainly going to focus on taking away the run (if Cam Cameron even calls run plays...) and just wait for Flacco to make mistakes.

A Perfect Score
01-17-2012, 09:25 AM
Except he's extremely average now. Painfully average. People will get fooled by his INT and near INTs last week that he is in full form again. He's not. Yates is just terrible. Although I saw Ed Reed make a tackle this weekend after Lewis whiffed on one. First one in like 3 years. If he ever tried to cover Hernandez or Gronk he'll be on the sideline hurt by halftime.

This isn't really true. He's been somewhat physically limited over the past few seasons, especially with the pinched nerve in his neck. You won't see him lay the lumber as often as he used to, be he's far from incapable of making tackles and he certainly does it regularly. Moreover, he's STILL the best center fielder in football. Nobody sets up QBs like Ed Reed, and that's just as true today as it has been his entire career. He still has the burst to close to the ball, trust me.

As far as jamming the big TE's off the line, you've gotta hope that someone manages to mangle them within 5 yards. I don't know if we'll leave it to a LB, or try and man up Pollard on one of them inside, but we will need to find a way to take care of those 2. Ladarius Webb just had a very strong season and is playing lights out on the fringe, but I feel like we could see him lined up in man on Hernandez on several occasions as well.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:27 AM
This isn't really true. He's been somewhat physically limited over the past few seasons, especially with the pinched nerve in his neck. You won't see him lay the lumber as often as he used to, be he's far from incapable of making tackles and he certainly does it regularly. Moreover, he's STILL the best center fielder in football. Nobody sets up QBs like Ed Reed, and that's just as true today as it has been his entire career. He still has the burst to close to the ball, trust me.

As far as jamming the big TE's off the line, you've gotta hope that someone manages to mangle them within 5 yards. I don't know if we'll leave it to a LB, or try and man up Pollard on one of them inside, but we will need to find a way to take care of those 2. Ladarius Webb just had a very strong season and is playing lights out on the fringe, but I feel like we could see him lined up in man on Hernandez on several occasions as well.

I think that's the dilemma your coaching staff faces this week. Let the TEs have a free release and rush the passer with LBs or Jam them and slow their routes. No way in hell you can expect a DB to slow down either of them off the line.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:33 AM
No one has figured out a good way to slow up the TEs yet. That's why they are so dominant in the league right now. We saw Gronk, Graham and Davis all completely explode last week. You don't think the defensive minds on the other team were trying to stop them?They were, none have found a good way to actually accomplish it yet.

I touched on this in my "thoughts" thread. What do you do? What can you do?

If you have an extremely athletic linebacker like a Boley or a Briggs, you can put him on the TE. But even then, someone like Gronk or Graham with that kind of size and speed is going to get his catches.

Cover them with a safety? Doubtful. They give up far too much in size.

"Chipping" the TE with a pass rush to slow him up might help, but that slows up your pass rush too.

Right now there just isn't a good way to do it.

Hines
01-17-2012, 09:34 AM
I can't believe I'm going for the Patriots Sunday. It almost feels like I'm worshiping the devil right now. I just do not want the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Either way, I'm going for the NFC in the playoffs(another yuck), but that's only because I hate the two teams in the AFCCG.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:35 AM
I can't believe I'm going for the Patriots Sunday. It almost feels like I'm worshiping the devil right now. I just do not want the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Either way, I'm going for the NFC in the playoffs(another yuck), but that's only because I hate the two teams in the AFCCG.

You have no right to complain, you lost to Tebow. You deserve to see the Ravens in the Superbowl after that.

A Perfect Score
01-17-2012, 09:37 AM
You have no right to complain, you lost to Tebow. You deserve to see the Ravens in the Superbowl after that.

Haha this made my morning. They did lose to Tebow, didn't they? How terrible are the Steelers.

Hines
01-17-2012, 09:37 AM
You have no right to complain, you lost to Tebow. You deserve to see the Ravens in the Superbowl after that.

I think I'd rather let James Harrison hit me like he hit McCoy before I root for the Ravens and to have them in the Super Bowl. Hell, I'd even let in his prime Mike Tyson punch me in the face with no glove before seeing that.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 09:39 AM
I would like to see what Webb can do on the TEs, specifically Hernandez (I wouldn't put him on Gronk) He can be pretty physical at the LOS and is probably one of our best cover guys at this point.

Gronk is the real problem. Do we put Suggs on him? (Was covering Andre Johnson at times last week) Then we lose almost all of our pass rush.

My ideal would probably be to put Suggs on Gronk for a good amount of the snaps while throwing in some rushes. MEanwhile have Webb line up in the slot on Hernandez and use some of his blitzing abilities as well.

I don't think you can use any one scheme the whole game so it will have to get switched up a lot.

Still, I think this is a better game than people think. Probably ends up being the best game of the weekend as I have the NYG putting the stomp on the 49'ers

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 09:41 AM
Put your best CB on Hernandez, and you have no one to cover Welker.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:42 AM
I would like to see what Webb can do on the TEs, specifically Hernandez (I wouldn't put him on Gronk) He can be pretty physical at the LOS and is probably one of our best cover guys at this point.

Gronk is the real problem. Do we put Suggs on him? (Was covering Andre Johnson at times last week) Then we lose almost all of our pass rush.

My ideal would probably be to put Suggs on Gronk for a good amount of the snaps while throwing in some rushes. MEanwhile have Webb line up in the slot on Hernandez and use some of his blitzing abilities as well.

I don't think you can use any one scheme the whole game so it will have to get switched up a lot.

Still, I think this is a better game than people think. Probably ends up being the best game of the weekend as I have the NYG putting the stomp on the 49'ers

I gotta disagree I think the 9ers game will be much better, especially if it rains.

It will be a grinder. I think the 9ers will put some serious heat on Eli and we'll see how good he really is in bad conditions against an Elite Defense.

I think the Pats Ravens game will be more of a shoot out to be honest. Probably 28+ for each team. Flacco will pass alot I expect but a pick or two from him should be enough.

A Perfect Score
01-17-2012, 09:44 AM
Put your best CB on Hernandez, and you have no one to cover Welker.

Welker can have his little 3 and 4 yard gains, as long as Gronk isn't running people over down the seam on his way to 40 yard TDs. Welker scares me much less then the TEs do.

At least this week we know damn well the Pats aren't going to be running the ball like the Texans. If we are going to stop them, we're going to have to stop them through the air.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 09:45 AM
Welker can have his little 3 and 4 yard gains, as long as Gronk isn't running people over down the seam on his way to 40 yard TDs. Welker scares me much less then the TEs do.

At least this week we know damn well the Pats aren't going to be running the ball like the Texans. If we are going to stop them, we're going to have to stop them through the air.


Wes Welker:
REC
122

YDS
1,569

AVG
12.9

Where do you get 3-4 yards?

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:47 AM
Welker can have his little 3 and 4 yard gains, as long as Gronk isn't running people over down the seam on his way to 40 yard TDs. Welker scares me much less then the TEs do.

At least this week we know damn well the Pats aren't going to be running the ball like the Texans. If we are going to stop them, we're going to have to stop them through the air.

That's an extreme understatement. If you get half your defense fixated on covering the TEs, Welker will make a mockery of them underneath for at least 7-8 yards a pop. Brady was having such a good day with the TEs dominating last week they didn't even need to go to Welker.

If only the Patriots had a deep threat taking the top off the defense...with Welker and the TEs, they'd unfuckingstoppable.

TheBoyWonder22
01-17-2012, 09:50 AM
That's an extreme understatement. If you get half your defense fixated on covering the TEs, Welker will make a mockery of them underneath for at least 7-8 yards a pop. Brady was having such a good day with the TEs dominating last week they didn't even need to go to Welker.

If only the Patriots had a deep threat taking the top off the defense...with Welker and the TEs, they'd unfuckingstoppable.That's why they signed Chad Ochocinco!

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 09:50 AM
Put your best CB on Hernandez, and you have no one to cover Welker.

I would be fine with Jimmy Smith on Welker... especially if they weren't making Jimmy play 5 yards off the LOS like they did against SD and instead let him get physical with Welk

A Perfect Score
01-17-2012, 09:50 AM
Wes Welker:
REC
122

YDS
1,569

AVG
12.9

Where do you get 3-4 yards?

I'm going to assume our defense is good enough to prevent stuff like 99 yard TDs. Ill take Welker working underneath over those TEs burning us deep. The backside fade to Hernandez that the Pats run regularly terrifies me as much as any play in their playbook.

Hines
01-17-2012, 09:50 AM
I think I'd put Jimmy Smith on Gronk since Smith is a big guy. Steelers put Cortez Allen on Gronk and did a pretty nice job I think on him.


Edit: Smith on Gronk, Webb on Welker, Suggs shadowing and blitzing, Reed also spying on Hernandez and playing up top. I wouldn't trust Pollard on anyone this game.

coordinator0
01-17-2012, 09:52 AM
I think that's the dilemma your coaching staff faces this week. Let the TEs have a free release and rush the passer with LBs or Jam them and slow their routes. No way in hell you can expect a DB to slow down either of them off the line.

Eh, the only LB we'd be losing any pass-rush with if we had him jam the TEs at the line with is Suggs. We're still not a traditional 3-4 team that rushes both of it's OLBs on most plays. I expect Johnson will be right up on Gronkowski or Hernandez.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm going to assume our defense is good enough to prevent stuff like 99 yard TDs. Ill take Welker working underneath over those TEs burning us deep. The backside fade to Hernandez that the Pats run regularly terrifies me as much as any play in their playbook.

Then you're just picking slow poison over the quick strike death.

I just don't think the Ravens match up all that well with Patriots offense.

I think I'd put Jimmy Smith on Gronk since Smith is a big guy. Steelers put Cortez Allen on Gronk and did a pretty nice job I think on him.

Jimmy Smith may be big for a CB, but he's still giving up what...4-5 inches and 50-60 pounds to Gronk? He may be better suited to keeping up with him than a LB, but he's going to get outmuscled for every one of those contested passes that good TEs get.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 09:54 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/17/no-serious-damage-to-ed-reeds-ankle/

Plus, gimpy Ed Reed. If he's left as the only guy to stop Gronk from getting the end zone, he might make the tackle but it could end up being his last one of the game.

Hines
01-17-2012, 09:55 AM
Then you're just picking slow poison over the quick strike death.

I just don't think the Ravens match up all that well with Patriots offense.



Jimmy Smith may be big for a CB, but he's still giving up what...4-5 inches and 50-60 pounds to Gronk? He may be better suited to keeping up with him than a LB, but he's going to get outmuscled for every one of those contested passes that good TEs get.

I'm talking about how big and physical Smith is. Put him on him and don't let him break a long gain on a catch. If I were Baltimore, I'd be happy with the 7-94 and no TDs the Steelers gave him. He catches the ball, Smith tackles him right then.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 10:01 AM
I would be fine with Jimmy Smith on Welker... especially if they weren't making Jimmy play 5 yards off the LOS like they did against SD and instead let him get physical with Welk

Jimmy Smith could not cover Welker period. You are delusional to suggest it. Reminds me Cromartie trying to 1v1 Welker.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 10:05 AM
Jimmy Smith could not cover Welker period. You are delusional to suggest it. Reminds me Cromartie trying to 1v1 Welker.

I think thats pretty strong talk for a reasonably untested CB... Cromartie might be big and tall but he hardly plays physical at the LOS his advantage is his jumping ability and ability to go up with big/tall WR and fight for contested balls.

I think that Welker getting jammed to death at the LOS would be much different.

phlysac
01-17-2012, 10:10 AM
I have the NYG putting the stomp on the 49'ers

Reasoning?

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 10:11 AM
Smith on Welker would be awfully big test for an unproven rookie in the biggest game of the year. It could work, but I'd like my chances if I were the Pats.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 10:16 AM
Smith on Welker would be awfully big test for an unproven rookie in the biggest game of the year. It could work, but I'd like my chances if I were the Pats.

It certainly could fail and he could fall flat on his face... but then you have switch it up. I think you have to go into this game with a few different looks/coverage schemes or you'll fail anyway.

I would like to see if it would work, jamming Welker on these short routes and playing him close to the LOS would probably be the ideal way to stop him and I think Jimmy would be our most physical guy.

You could try him on a Gronk or Hernandez but if he flops there it's going for a TD.

Reasoning?

I'm not trying to upset 49'ers fans :P it's just my prediction.

The Gmen are hot right now and playing well on the road.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 10:19 AM
It certainly could fail and he could fall flat on his face... but then you have switch it up. I think you have to go into this game with a few different looks/coverage schemes or you'll fail anyway.

I would like to see if it would work, jamming Welker on these short routes and playing him close to the LOS would probably be the ideal way to stop him and I think Jimmy would be our most physical guy.

You could try him on a Gronk or Hernandez but if he flops there it's going for a TD.



I'm not trying to upset 49'ers fans :P it's just my prediction.

The Gmen are hot right now and playing well on the road.

I dunno I think Welker will eventually burn Smith. Maybe not deep over the top but he'll get a ton of seperation and YAC. The only thing it would do is allow more time to get pressure on Brady.

coordinator0
01-17-2012, 10:21 AM
I think putting Webb on Welker for most of the game is a far more likely scenario. Probably better for us too, I'd rather not move Smith into the slot where he hasn't played much (at all?) this year and Webb has been very good all season.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 10:21 AM
I dunno I think Welker will eventually burn Smith. Maybe not deep over the top but he'll get a ton of seperation and YAC. The only thing it would do is allow more time to get pressure on Brady.

Bad thing? :P

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 10:23 AM
I think putting Webb on Welker for most of the game is a far more likely scenario. Probably better for us too, I'd rather not move Smith into the slot where he hasn't played much (at all?) this year and Webb has been very good all season.

Just to so I don't seem like a complete Raven hater, as I also think like BB it will be ugly for them, I absolutely love Webb. He is the most underrated player in this league. I'm counting the days until his free agency.

Jvig43
01-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Welker getting his 3-4 yards? APS you silly drunk bastard.

TheBoyWonder22
01-17-2012, 10:23 AM
If the Pats win it all, I think the traditional 3-4 is gonna start to die out. San Francisco is doing big things with it now. But I think with all of these big tight ends coming into the league, teams will be forced to address this mismatch through schematic implementation of big, fast linebackers.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Bad thing? :P

No. If you get there. If you don't, I think Welker would be wide open if Smith were to really get physical with him at the LOS.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 10:25 AM
I think putting Webb on Welker for most of the game is a far more likely scenario. Probably better for us too, I'd rather not move Smith into the slot where he hasn't played much (at all?) this year and Webb has been very good all season.

I still think we are going to need him blitzing a lot (indeed out of the slot) especially if we end up having Suggs covering Gronk

phlysac
01-17-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm not trying to upset 49'ers fans :P it's just my prediction.

The Gmen are hot right now and playing well on the road.

Not upsetting. Just trying to pick your brain. Can't argue with gut feelings. I'll simply counter with this...

The 49ers are hot right now and playing well at home.


;)

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 10:32 AM
Not upsetting. Just trying to pick your brain. Can't argue with gut feelings. I'll simply counter with this...

The 49ers are hot right now and playing well at home.


;)

Very true. I might actually have to retract my previous statement I think both games will end up being pretty good. I still think the Gmen win but I will take back that they are going to roll over them

Rosebud
01-17-2012, 10:38 AM
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but I just can't see Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco beating Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady. I'm with BB on this and think Belly is going to sell out against the run, being even willing to give up some big scores early to get Cam to give up on the run and go all pass. And in that game of trickeration I'm going with the master of deception.

As for the Ravens D I'd agree that they're a little over-rated, but only because this year they had great seasons from their top stars who stayed healthy, kinda like the bears D last year, and so there's parts that can be taken advantage of if the stars they have don't make up for them. That's why I think Brady will be able to take advantage of that D, especially if the D is able to bait the Ravens into an up tempo shoot out style game.

HOMER CORNER
This Giants/9ers game has me sick. I genuinely think that the giants can make it through to the superbowl, but both teams are very different from the teams that played in the regular season. That game was Alex Smith’s coming out party in many respects, as the giants sold out to stop the run and Smith was able to take advantage of the soft zones and was able to use his mobility to avoid the minimal pressure we did manufacture. Now he’s coming of a huge 4th quarter performance in a game that has already entered 9ers lore.

Meanwhile the Giants passing attack has grown even sharper so that the mistakes that gave the 9ers their turnovers in the previous matchup are much less common, the running game is a little less futile, as teams ease up on it over the course of the game to focus on our passing game and thus has come through with some key plays.

The biggest difference however is the defense, no longer is the “rush-3, drop 7 and have one guy stick his thumbs up his ass” a staple of our defense. We’re bringing at least 4 on almost every play and we’ve dropped many of the complicated adjustments that lead to so many blown coverages in the regular season.

I can’t fully blame Fewell for that scheme for exactly the same reasons I can’t blame Killdrive fully for his retardedly complex passing concepts, if you have smart guys who have chemistry and experience in the scheme playing together for a while it can become absolutely unstoppable, but what’s infuriating is that he stuck to it in a season where we were losing a solid Corner every other week, starting with the one guy who was better in zones than simple man. With that kind of turnover, expecting guys to be able to communicate well enough to play simple zone is tough enough without expecting them to read the offense to determine which zones they need to be dropping into.

Looking at the matchups from the perspective of a giants fan, here are the areas that I think will make or break this game.

VD and Delanie Walker vs Boley and Jacquain Williams
Last week Alex Smith and Vernon Davis hooked up to eviscerate the saints. For the giants to prevent falling in similar fashion they will need Boley and Williams to play great in coverage. While these two have done a phenomenal job this season they are both smaller guys that a freak like VD could overpower. The Giants have been horrible in the middle of the field for many years but this season that changed as those two did a great job on more finesse TEs like Finley, Witten and Hernandez. What gives me hope is how the team managed to contain Gronk and the Pats passing game in a game I was sure the Pats were not going to loss. Replicating that success will be huge to giving our defense a chance to make the stops we'll need to win.

The Giants DL, what of it?
This ties in with the previous point, the giants DL will need to have a great game since they can’t just pin their ears back and attack the way they could just go after Aaron Rodgers, what would be very unfortunate would be to have to chip their TEs with our Ends if our Linebackers are unable to contain them. While JPP can still affect plays without getting to the QB thanks to his ridiculous orangutan arms, having him hit VD at the line on every play would be a real kick in the balls.

Especially since I’m worried about that running game, so far we haven’t been tested by a running game like this one since our D got its **** together and in the last matchup selling out to stop the run played directly into our soft coverages. If Canty’s not 100% this could end up deciding the game as an effective running game will minimize how much we can go with multiple DEs and our nickel package, something that could prove crucial if we need to start chipping VD off the line and could lead to Alex Smith having all day to run around once again.

What are we going to see from the 9ers D?
The 9ers D has been the league’s best run stuffing unit this season and a big part of that is the mobility of their inside backers that lets them stay in their base D in many situations where other teams need to shift into their nickel packages. For a team as bad at running the ball and as dedicated to balance as the giants this will be a huge battle. If the giants passing game can force the 9ers to back out of their base packages the running game will get the opportunity to make some plays. Something that has a tremendous impact on our offensive efficiency since Eli needs to face less 3rd and super longs, even if Eli has been on fire on them so far. Additionally keeping Aldon and Jason Smith off of Eli is going to be a struggle that the credible threat of a running game would be really helpful for. Fortunately the giants passing game is clicking so I have a good feeling about this one, unlike the matchup of our Run D against Frank Gore and that big OL.


Which ever side is able to win these battles will go a long way to determining the winner of the game. What makes this so hard for me is that I could see those matchups going either way and I’m not sure how either team will carry their momentum into this game, seeing the 9ers come out flat after their epic first playoff win in almost a decade wouldn’t surprise me at all and seeing the giants come out sloppy with the media blowing hot air up their asses after the back to back smackdowns they’ve laid on the opposition would surprise me even less. That said I think both teams will come out firing and this will settle into another physical battle that may just come down to who has the ball in their hands last.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 10:45 AM
Is Delanie Walker going to play?

Rosebud
01-17-2012, 10:47 AM
Is Delanie Walker going to play?

I think he's still questionable? Would be sweet if he didn't and we could try both Boley and Williams out on VD to see which one does better against him and let the other guy have more freedom, the way we played Finley with Williams for the most part while Boley got to stick in a zone.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 10:52 AM
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but I just can't see Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco beating Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady.

I've been saying for a while now that I don't think the Ravens can ever win a Superbowl with Cam Cameron. He's a slightly less extreme version of Mike Martz.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2012, 10:53 AM
From early comments it sounded like Walker thought he'd be ready to play.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
From early comments it sounded like Walker thought he'd be ready to play.

Walker himself seems to think he'll be ready to go:
https://twitter.com/#!/Dwalk46/status/158753338001850369

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/17/49ers-could-get-big-offensive-addition-sunday/

Team is less sure.

bantx
01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
I'm hoping for a Ravens and 49ners superbowl. Please knock Eli off, it's always hard to like Eli with my bias against him, but he's playing so good right now.

hockey619
01-17-2012, 10:57 AM
even as a giants fan, i wouldnt be too down if the 9ers made it to play the ravens. I just dont want to see the patriots win, i cant handle all the extreme smugness from their irritatingly arrogant fans. youd think it was actually them that won those super bowls and not the team...

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:04 AM
even as a giants fan, i wouldnt be too down if the 9ers made it to play the ravens. I just dont want to see the patriots win, i cant handle all the extreme smugness from their irritatingly arrogant fans. youd think it was actually them that won those super bowls and not the team...

Ohhhh, they're nowhere near as bad as the Packer fans would have been winning two straight.

I can see the threads now...

"Aaron Rodgers, GOAT?"

"2010-11 Packers, GOATT?

<twitch><twitch>

Iamcanadian
01-17-2012, 11:08 AM
Well both games appear to be a toss up IMO.

I'm thinking the Giants and Eli are on another one of those runs and San Fran will have a really tough time stopping them but it should be close.

I love Tom Brady as a QB, one of the best I've ever seen, and I think they win especially if Reed cannot play or is playing at half speed because of his injury. However, Baltimore has won a lot of big games this season so it should be close.

Should be a great weekend with outstanding football.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Well both games appear to be a toss up IMO.

I'm thinking the Giants and Eli are on another one of those runs and San Fran will have a really tough time stopping them but it should be close.

I love Tom Brady as a QB, one of the best I've ever seen, and I think they win especially if Reed cannot play or is playing at half speed because of his injury. However, Baltimore has won a lot of big games this season so it should be close.

Should be a great weekend with outstanding football.

*At home. 8-0 there, 4-4 on the road with embarrassing losses, including to the likes of Jacksonville.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 11:15 AM
*At home. 8-0 there, 4-4 on the road with embarrassing losses, including to the likes of Jacksonville.

That Jacksonville game is so long ago at this point it is irrelevant. Everyone seems to be on our bandwagon and we lost to the damn Foreskins twice. I'd just be more concerned with how the Ravens played this past week. If they play like that against the Patriots, they will not win. They also didn't play exceptionally well in week 17 either.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:21 AM
That Jacksonville game is so long ago at this point it is irrelevant. Everyone seems to be on our bandwagon and we lost to the damn Foreskins twice. I'd just be more concerned with how the Ravens played this past week. If they play like that against the Patriots, they will not win. They also didn't play exceptionally well in week 17 either.

Last week:

0 sacks, 2 QB hits

Flacco 50% completion

Rice <3.0 ypc

Gimpy Ed Reed

AND on the road where they are 4-4 on the year and lost to the likes of Jacksonville.

I don't have much confidence in the Ravens needless to say.

Complex
01-17-2012, 11:22 AM
The media disagrees with you on Baltimore. NFLN ESPN etc are preaching that New England isn't physical enough and won't last.

Are you serious? the media has been on Belichecks nuts saying he is back. He is turning free agents cast offs like Sterling Moore into starter. Moving a struggling Devin McCourty to safety. Putting Julian Eldman(sp?) on defense. How that ravens don't have much of a shot without Ed Reed being healthy.

KCJ58
01-17-2012, 11:25 AM
Wheres the pick em' thread?

Complex
01-17-2012, 11:27 AM
Last week:

0 sacks, 2 QB hits

Flacco 50% completion

Rice <3.0 ypc

Gimpy Ed Reed

AND on the road where they are 4-4 on the year and lost to the likes of Jacksonville.

I don't have much confidence in the Ravens needless to say.

It's not like the Patriots have been dominating besides against Tebow. They were down 21-0 against the Bills and came back to score 49 unanswered points but that had a lot to do with Stevie Johnson being benched after his TD celebration. Against the redskins and Dolphins they barely won.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:30 AM
It's not like the Patriots have been dominating besides against Tebow. They were down 21-0 against the Bills and came back to score 49 unanswered points but that had a lot to do with Stevie Johnson being benched after his TD celebration. Against the redskins and Dolphins they barely won.

All totally true, won't argue that.

It's just a feeling I have. I look at the teams...one led by Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and playing with a playoff fire I haven't seen in a long time with them...and the other led by Joe Flacco with Cam Cameron calling plays. And coming off of a game where they couldn't even touch the 3rd string rookie QB in the pocket.They barely won while being gifted turnovers, something I doubt the Patriots will hand them.

hockey619
01-17-2012, 11:30 AM
Ohhhh, they're nowhere near as bad as the Packer fans would have been winning two straight.

I can see the threads now...

"Aaron Rodgers, GOAT?"

"2010-11 Packers, GOATT?

<twitch><twitch>

eh ive been reading the boards since fall of 04 and they were pretty bad then, very comparable to the packers now. but eh hopefully we'll have to deal with neither and the pats will somehow lose to the ravens this weekend.

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 11:33 AM
The Giants / 49ers game should be a great one, with the last possession making the difference. Defense wins championships. The 49ers bring the D and apparently can play some offense, too. I do think the Giants are playing their best football at the right time, though. It's just a question of whether or not they get the ball last.

The Pats / Ravens game is the one I think turns into a blowout. The only problem I am having is that it could go either way. If NE comes out fired up and playing great it could easily be a Patriots rout. But this D can give up tons of yardage and the Ravens can trample the Patriots morale quickly if they can score early. Selling out to stop the run is cool and all, but can backfire pretty quickly when you have an atrocious defensive backfield.

Pressure up the middle is the difference with Brady. The lack of middle pressure from the Broncos had me reasonably optimistic for that game. The same can't be said for the Ravens.

gpngc
01-17-2012, 11:38 AM
I think people are confusing the Ravens playing very poorly with the Texans playing pretty well. Aside from a few drops, the game circumstances (rookie QB on the other side, playing with the lead for the majority) made it completely understandable that the Ravens offense looked the way it did. But the main reason was that Houston defense. Wade Phillips did a hell of a job with that group.

It's a week-to-week league. Baltimore will play well this week. Everyone is on their case because they were least impressive in victory. Fact is, last week doesn't matter at all this Sunday at 3:30.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 11:39 AM
I think people are confusing the Ravens playing very poorly with the Texans playing pretty well. Aside from a few drops, the game circumstances (rookie QB on the other side, playing with the lead for the majority) made it completely understandable that the Ravens offense looked the way it did. But the main reason was that Houston defense. Wade Phillips did a hell of a job with that group.

It's a week-to-week league. Baltimore will play well this week. Everyone is on their case because they were least impressive in victory. Fact is, last week doesn't matter at all this Sunday at 3:30.

Well said.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:40 AM
Yes, let's never take anything that ever happened in the past into consideration for predicting future events. I'm sure that will go well. Let's eliminate history classes from schools too, because why not?

Jvig43
01-17-2012, 11:42 AM
eh ive been reading the boards since fall of 04 and they were pretty bad then, very comparable to the packers now. but eh hopefully we'll have to deal with neither and the pats will somehow lose to the ravens this weekend.

I wasn't around until 2007 (was following as a non member in 2006) and outside of RC (who rarely posts anymore) I think the Pats fans on this board are all pretty awesome modest guys so hopefully thats not what your referring to.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 11:44 AM
Yes, let's never take anything that ever happened in the past into consideration for predicting future events. I'm sure that will go well. Let's eliminate history classes from schools too, because why not?

I think he's referring to the fact each game is its own battle and things in the nfl change very quickly.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:48 AM
I think he's referring to the fact each game is its own battle and things in the nfl change very quickly.

I won't necessarily disagree with that but when you look back over the season...see the Ravens at 4-4 on the road...the lousy game they had last week...

And I keep breaking it down to this. Who do you take if pressed? A Bill Belichick coached team with Tom Brady at QB or a team with Joe Flacco at QB and Cam Cameron calling the shots?

I just don't like the Ravens in this matchup.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 11:51 AM
I won't necessarily disagree with that but when you look back over the season...see the Ravens at 4-4 on the road...the lousy game they had last week...

And I keep breaking it down to this. Who do you take if pressed? A Bill Belichick coached team with Tom Brady at QB or a team with Joe Flacco at QB and Cam Cameron calling the shots?

I just don't like the Ravens in this matchup.

I agree with what you are saying. I do think the Pats win this one cleanly, but you never know if a team is gonna come out flat for whatever reason.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 11:51 AM
Another random side thought:

You know how people were pissing and moaning that Eli made the pro bowl?

Out of him, Rodgers, Brees and Stafford....who is the only one still going?

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 11:52 AM
I think gpngc has it right. Houston has been under the radar and continues to get zero credit for the way they played. It's all about the Ravens playing poorly, and we all should know it's very rarely that simple. I think the Texans D is far better than the Patriots and their Oline (and philosophy) is probably the better unit, too.

ElectricEye
01-17-2012, 12:22 PM
I think gpngc has it right. Houston has been under the radar and continues to get zero credit for the way they played. It's all about the Ravens playing poorly, and we all should know it's very rarely that simple. I think the Texans D is far better than the Patriots and their Oline (and philosophy) is probably the better unit, too.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. Don't underestimate the fact that the Texans were able to run the ball, which always keep the pressure back. People didn't give Houston enough credit going into the playoffs. They showed that against the Bengals and they certainly showed that against Baltimore, even in a loss. If Schaub was healthy, they might have had the best shot out of anyone to win the Super Bowl.

This game has me very nervous, I'm not going to lie. Really a toss up, strength on strength kind of game. We've had very mixed results against teams that run this style of defense in the past, usually going from one extreme to the other. I think that trend probably continues on Sunday. Our offensive line played their best game of the season against some very good Denver pass rushers, but the Ravens front is an entirely different animal, with multiple players who can take the game over.

I think this is one of those games where the tone will be set one way or the other early, even if the score stays close. It will be an interesting battle early on to determine who gets to decide what type of game it is. I think one of the real things we've got going for us in this one is that even if the Ravens win that battle, we've still got enough to hang around. With the type of offense we have, scoring can come at anytime. So even if they hold us to to say, 13 points through the first three, we well could explode and just score on every possession at the end. A lot of pressure will be on Flacco and their offense to convert scoring opportunities and to possess the ball as much as possible.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
We'll see EE. I'm starting to question myself for having more faith in the Patriots in this one than actual Patriots fans.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 12:27 PM
We'll see EE. I'm starting to question myself for having more faith in the Patriots in this one than actual Patriots fans.

EE's always nervous lol.

But he's right on a lot of topics.

I think if NE gets up early say 14 then we win. Camcam will want to pass all the time and the Pats can play it instead of focusing on the run. That's what the gamechanger will be, if the pats can get up early on them.

JETS5128
01-17-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm gonna pre-face this post by saying I'm admittedly a patriots hater (obviously) but I see some serious flaws with this team.

1. No defense, physical element: For lack of a better word, this is a soft team. They simply do not have the horses to play hard-hitting, physical, playoff football. They dont stop the run, they cant stop the pass, and they cant run the ball. Their O-line and D-line, while still good, have regressed from where they used to be. Wilfork and Gronk are the only physically imposing/intimidating players on this team. They have shown in the past that when they get hit in the mouth they simply cannot hit back. They are soft, bottom line.

2. Little known fact but the Pats have played TWO teams with a winning record this year. TWO freakin teams. Oh, and they lost to both of them. They are not battled tested like the other 3 teams remaining. They have been coasting the past 2 months and haven't even shared the field with a legitimate team since November.

3. One man show: This is not a championship caliber TEAM. You look at the Giants, Ravens and Niners and you see good/great players in all 3 levels of offense and defense. You look at the Pats, and they are just Tom Brady and friends. You get pressure on Brady and keep him from killing you, and you win. That simple. They have no other ways to beat you. No defense that can get stops or create turnovers, no running game to take the pressure off Brady and slow down the pass rush. Nothin. If Brady isn't perfect, the Pats lose.

I just dont see how this group is gonna win this weekend. Its gonna take Flacco straight ******** the bed and throwing 2-3 picks so Rice stops getting touches and the Ravens have to play catch-up. While possible, it certainly isn't likely (especially given the defense he's playing)

Am I the only one who see's this?

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 12:31 PM
EE's always nervous lol.

But he's right on a lot of topics.

I think if NE gets up early say 14 then we win. Camcam will want to pass all the time and the Pats can play it instead of focusing on the run. That's what the gamechanger will be, if the pats can get up early on them.

Hence the scenario I've been touting. If the Pats can get ahead early, Cam will go pass wacky. That is his forte.

And regardless of the defense, I like any team against the Ravens if Joe Flacco is flinging the ball around wildly the whole game.

bigbluedefense
01-17-2012, 12:35 PM
Tough game this week. I respect the hell out of the 49ers. They play football the way I wanted the Giants to play football. That team reminds me of the Parcells Giants.

And oddly, we've taken on the old 49er style of play. It's like a role reversal from the old rivalry days of the 80s.

The game is going to come down to turnovers and redzone offense. I know most games come down to those 2 things, but my point in saying that is that these 2 teams are so evenly matched that I think whoever scores more TDs in the redzone and makes less mistakes wins it.

Tuck called the first meeting btw them a "4 yards and a cloud of dust game." This will be no different.

ElectricEye
01-17-2012, 12:36 PM
We'll see EE. I'm starting to question myself for having more faith in the Patriots in this one than actual Patriots fans.

The one thing I can really say for this team is that they're peaking at the right time. Even though the score with the Broncos didn't mean or prove much at the end, we still played our best football on the year. Especially along the front seven and the offensive line. I'm just not sure that we'll be able to repeat that type of performance. Until that game, a full 60 minutes of consistent football had eluded us.

I just don't think this team has had a test quite like the Ravens yet. We played three playoff teams(including a weak Denver one) and two of them were able to completely knock us off our game. The Ravens are the type of team that's capable of doing that. Everyone seems to think that our tight ends are unstoppable. That's mostly true, but there have been teams that are able to limit the damage. If you can get a pass rush and force Gronk to stay in to protect and play solid zone on top of it, it just knocks everything off. Hernandez is a different player without Gronk demanding the lions share of the coverage. Still a useful one, but he's not capable of dominating a game on his own. We're able to mix up coverage schemes on those two by going to the no huddle, but again, if you can rush the passer it kind of forces us away from doing that.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 12:36 PM
I think gpngc has it right. Houston has been under the radar and continues to get zero credit for the way they played. It's all about the Ravens playing poorly, and we all should know it's very rarely that simple. I think the Texans D is far better than the Patriots and their Oline (and philosophy) is probably the better unit, too.

I'm gunna make a third motion for this.

Even you BB have stated that this team with Schaub may have been the best team in the playoffs.

I still think this is a closer game than anyone thinks.

The Pats SHOULD have thumped the Broncos, a lot of teams should have. This shows that the pats definitely have their **** together.

On the other hand the Ravens beat a very good team in a close game in which the Texans team could not overcome a rookie QB. This shows the Ravens can indeed hang with good teams.

Yes the Pats have a better QB... they also lack the same caliber run game, OL and most importantly Defense

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 12:44 PM
I'm gunna make a third motion for this.

Even you BB have stated that this team with Schaub may have been the best team in the playoffs.

I still think this is a closer game than anyone thinks.

The Pats SHOULD have thumped the Broncos, a lot of teams should have. This shows that the pats definitely have their **** together.

On the other hand the Ravens beat a very good team in a close game in which the Texans team could not overcome a rookie QB. This shows the Ravens can indeed hang with good teams.

Yes the Pats have a better QB... they also lack the same caliber run game, OL and most importantly Defense

If they had Schaub you may have gotten blown out. A red zone possession handed to you on a muffed punt and 3 picks against a rookie QB...and you escaped with a one score victory. That was FUGLY. Even the ugliest win is better than the grandest loss, but it doesn't bode well for the future.

Maybe it will be a wakeup call for your team and they'll come out hot. Based on past road...mediocrity to say it nicely...I have my doubts.

And I just hate Cam Cameron. Tell me you feel comfortable with him as your playcaller in the AFC Championship game. Make that case if you can because I can't fathom it.

I always say that if I need to win one game, I want Bill Belichick as my head coach. Belichick's defensive mind >>>^∞ Cam Cameron's offensive mind.

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 12:45 PM
I'm gonna pre-face this post by saying I'm admittedly a patriots hater (obviously) but I see some serious flaws with this team.

1. No defense, physical element: For lack of a better word, this is a soft team. They simply do not have the horses to play hard-hitting, physical, playoff football. They dont stop the run, they cant stop the pass, and they cant run the ball. Their O-line and D-line, while still good, have regressed from where they used to be. Wilfork and Gronk are the only physically imposing/intimidating players on this team. They have shown in the past that when they get hit in the mouth they simply cannot hit back. They are soft, bottom line.

2. Little known fact but the Pats have played TWO teams with a winning record this year. TWO freakin teams. Oh, and they lost to both of them. They are not battled tested like the other 3 teams remaining. They have been coasting the past 2 months and haven't even shared the field with a legitimate team since November.

3. One man show: This is not a championship caliber TEAM. You look at the Giants, Ravens and Niners and you see good/great players in all 3 levels of offense and defense. You look at the Pats, and they are just Tom Brady and friends. You get pressure on Brady and keep him from killing you, and you win. That simple. They have no other ways to beat you. No defense that can get stops or create turnovers, no running game to take the pressure off Brady and slow down the pass rush. Nothin. If Brady isn't perfect, the Pats lose.

I just dont see how this group is gonna win this weekend. Its gonna take Flacco straight ******** the bed and throwing 2-3 picks so Rice stops getting touches and the Ravens have to play catch-up. While possible, it certainly isn't likely (especially given the defense he's playing)

Am I the only one who see's this?

No, you're not the only one. The problem isn't recognizing this. The problem is stopping Brady. If the oline keeps him clean I don't think the Ravens can win. If the oline gives up the middle pressure that turns Brady into a scared, long-haired, water slide queen, it's the Ravens game.

I honestly don't see a middle ground in this game. It's one or the other. If they get to Brady it's easy, if they don't it's the Cam/Flacco aerial flop in an ugly game of catchup. The Pats D can cause turnovers. It's just a matter of how many points they give up prior to the big play.

Then again, it could be shootout and Flacco could look like a god. If Dan Orvlovsky can do it, anyone can.

ElectricEye
01-17-2012, 12:47 PM
I think most of the perspective I've heard from Ravens fans on our offensive line is flawed. It's not a group that's much more than average to a tick above, but they're extremely capable of playing good football for long stretches. The problem has been consistency. In early game situations where we aren't in no-huddle attack mode, they've been exposed for having issues picking up extra pressure. They've had issues generally settling in even...but when they have, they've done a great job of keeping Brady clean and have done it against some pretty decent pass rushers. They haven't been bad for an entire game once on the year, except maybe against Pittsburgh. That game had some extenuating circumstances though. Most of the pressure came from the right side, where Vollmer was trying to come back for the first time in like a month.

bigbluedefense
01-17-2012, 12:49 PM
There's really 1 reason and 1 reason only why I think the Patriots will win this game fairly convincingly:

Joe Flacco.

If the Ravens had a qb with any sort of pocket presence, ability to read defenses, or consistent accuracy and anticipation skills, they'd win. But they don't. They have Joe Flacco.

ElectricEye
01-17-2012, 12:50 PM
There's really 1 reason and 1 reason only why I think the Patriots will win this game fairly convincingly:

Joe Flacco.

If the Ravens had a qb with any sort of pocket presence, ability to read defenses, or consistent accuracy and anticipation skills, they'd win. But they don't. They have Joe Flacco.

That's something I'm comfortable with. I could see Flacco getting a lot of yards on us, but as long as we contain the big play we'll be fine against the pass. We've been better and better about that lately. McCourty playing safety has been a big part of that.

I actually think our pass rush gets to him a bit too. That's been an area we've done well with lately, with Mark Anderson playing as well after losing Andre Carter. Shaun Ellis has even come on a little bit.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 12:54 PM
If they had Schaub you may have gotten blown out. A red zone possession handed to you on a muffed punt and 3 picks against a rookie QB...and you escaped with a one score victory. That was FUGLY. Even the ugliest win is better than the grandest loss, but it doesn't bode well for the future.

Maybe it will be a wakeup call for your team and they'll come out hot. Based on past road...mediocrity to say it nicely...I have my doubts.

And I just hate Cam Cameron. Tell me you feel comfortable with him as your playcaller in the AFC Championship game. Make that case if you can because I can't fathom it.

I always say that if I need to win one game, I want Bill Belichick as my head coach. Belichick's defensive mind >>>^∞ Cam Cameron's offensive mind.

Me too friend but we have been overcoming him all year.

I will never feel comfortable with him as a play caller.

My only point is that this idea that they will come out and beat us "soundly" is ridiculous.

The Pats certainly have their own deficiencies to deal with, mainly the fact that they are 0-2 against teams with winning records this season.

I will take a 4-4 record on the road with some let down losses to bad teams over an 0-2 record against teams who are better than .500

Baltimore's record against teams with winning records: 6-0 i'll take my chances

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 12:58 PM
There's really 1 reason and 1 reason only why I think the Patriots will win this game fairly convincingly:

Joe Flacco.

If the Ravens had a qb with any sort of pocket presence, ability to read defenses, or consistent accuracy and anticipation skills, they'd win. But they don't. They have Joe Flacco.

LEAVE JOE FLACCO ALONE! YOU ARE ALL TOO HARD ON HIM! HE'S SENSITIVE!

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 12:58 PM
Me too friend but we have been overcoming him all year.

I will never feel comfortable with him as a play caller.

My only point is that this idea that they will come out and beat us "soundly" is ridiculous.

The Pats certainly have their own deficiencies to deal with, mainly the fact that they are 0-2 against teams with winning records this season.

Except for...yanno...in the losses where Rice disappears and Flacco chucks the ball 900 times.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 12:59 PM
To be fair to Joe, Boldin doesn't get open. Joe made some super tight throws this past week in the completion he made.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 01:03 PM
To be fair to Joe, Boldin doesn't get open. Joe made some super tight throws this past week in the completion he made.

Boldin isn't the type of receiver who "gets open" really. He plays a physical game and makes tough catches then batters his way for some YAC.

Why Cam Cameron will send him 40 yards down the field when he can't get separation I have no idea...

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:04 PM
Except for...yanno...in the losses where Rice disappears and Flacco chucks the ball 900 times.

I understand that man, and I hate him too.

I still feel like you are overlooking the Pats deficiencies as well.

We may be able to get away with Cam's play calling (passes) against the 31st worst passing defense in the league.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 01:05 PM
I understand that man, and I hate him too.

I still feel like you are overlooking the Pats deficiencies as well.

We may be able to get away with Cam's play calling (passes) against the 31st worst passing defense in the league.

Flacco will probably throw for 300+ yards. However I think 2-3 turnovers (picks/fumbles) will seal it IMO.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 01:10 PM
I understand that man, and I hate him too.

I still feel like you are overlooking the Pats deficiencies as well.

We may be able to get away with Cam's play calling (passes) against the 31st worst passing defense in the league.

I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 01:14 PM
I understand that man, and I hate him too.

I still feel like you are overlooking the Pats deficiencies as well.

We may be able to get away with Cam's play calling (passes) against the 31st worst passing defense in the league.

This is definitely being lost in the mix, I think.

I realize it was a while ago but this D was lit up in consecutive weeks by Vince Young (400 yards!) and Dan Orvlovsky (353) - nobody can convince me those two are better QBs than Flacco.

JETS5128
01-17-2012, 01:15 PM
There's really 1 reason and 1 reason only why I think the Patriots will win this game fairly convincingly:

Joe Flacco.

If the Ravens had a qb with any sort of pocket presence, ability to read defenses, or consistent accuracy and anticipation skills, they'd win. But they don't. They have Joe Flacco.

I think you are under-estimating Flacco and over-rating the importance if QB play then.

Last week Flacco was 14/27 for 170 and 2 scores against an elite defense while being pressured/harassed all day and with the running game completely shut down. Ray Rice isn't getting 60 yards on 20 carries against the Pats. That is a fact. I'm also willing to bet the Pats get nowhere near the same amount of pressure the Texans got last week. AND the Houston secondary is so vastly superior to New England's. I know it looks real ugly sometimes when this offense is out of sync, but there not going up against a good unit this week. There going against a unit that Matt Moore, Rex Grossman and Ryan Fitzpatrick had field days against. Flacco is a superior QB to those guys, he will be fine. Its not like hes TJ Yates tossing up picks left and right. Hes a slightly above average QB with a live arm and ability to make big plays

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:17 PM
I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.

These teams had MUCH better defenses than the situation this year.

I like Belichick as well but I saying he will come up with "something" isn't exactly convincing me they will walk away with an easy W.

Where was his brilliance in the two losses to teams with winning records?

McCourty at safety has worked out okay but he made some terrible decisions in the run game and will still take some serious adjusting if they intend to keep him there long term.

If one wishes to take that kind of risk in the playoffs, I guess thats their prerogative, but I wouldn't do it. It may work out great, but I think it equally has a chance to be a dismal decision.

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 01:17 PM
I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.

I don't think it's a question of too much faith in Belichick. It's just a whole lot easier to "come up with" something when you have a studly collection of players.

With that said, there are guys in this current D that look to be comfortable and truly understanding how to play. That is a key factor - especially at "the right time."

bigbluedefense
01-17-2012, 01:18 PM
Flacco is an average qb. His stats are misleading, he was awful in that game. I'd put Flacco right around 15 or 14 in terms of qb rankings in the NFL, which makes him middle of the pack.

I'm not saying he's Blaine Gabbert by any means, but in a battle of Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco, even with Flacco's defense being much better than Brady's, I'm betting on Brady to make more plays to win the game.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-17-2012, 01:19 PM
I'd be pretty shocked if we don't see a NYG-NE rematch.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:21 PM
Flacco is an average qb. His stats are misleading, he was awful in that game. I'd put Flacco right around 15 or 14 in terms of qb rankings in the NFL, which makes him middle of the pack.

I'm not saying he's Blaine Gabbert by any means, but in a battle of Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco, even with Flacco's defense being much better than Brady's, I'm betting on Brady to make more plays to win the game.

As FE pointed out:

Vince Young and Dan Orlovsky shredded this Defense

Flacco > than VY and Orlovsky combined :P

JETS5128
01-17-2012, 01:22 PM
I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.

He's also the guy that lost a home playoff game to a 2nd year Joe Flacco who threw 10 times. Oh and he let a 2nd year Mark Sanchez throw for 3 TDs and a 127 rating in another home playoff loss

I would say too much faith is an understatement

Complex
01-17-2012, 01:26 PM
I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.

A bunch of teams outside of the Broncos took down young Peyton in the playoffs. Some of them didn't win but it wasn't their fault the Cots defense came alive.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:26 PM
I hope no one cares who starts the Pick 'em threads but I posted one so we can get these picks in the books :P

SuperPacker
01-17-2012, 01:29 PM
Ravens/49ers superbowl would be pretty amazing! A great defensive game and throw in the brothers facing off and i just need to see this game!

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Ravens/49ers superbowl would be pretty amazing! A great defensive game and throw in the brothers facing off and i just need to see this game!

Where were you on turkey day?

JETS5128
01-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Flacco is an average qb. His stats are misleading, he was awful in that game. I'd put Flacco right around 15 or 14 in terms of qb rankings in the NFL, which makes him middle of the pack.

I'm not saying he's Blaine Gabbert by any means, but in a battle of Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco, even with Flacco's defense being much better than Brady's, I'm betting on Brady to make more plays to win the game.

Think about what your saying man. If Flacco can be awful and still throw 2 TDs and no turnovers, what happens if he plays well, even just decent? Not mention hes going up against an incredibly inferior defense.

Its not a battle of Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco tho. Its Ravens v Patriots, and Brady over Flacco is just about the only advantage the Pats have (Him and his recievers)

Better O-line? Ravens
Running game? Ravens
D-line? Ravens
Linebackers? Ravens
Secondary? Ravens

Its one thing when your QB is turning the ball over and giving points to the other team. Flacco hasn't been doing that. Just because hes not Tom Brady doesnt mean he cant beat the Patriots. Th Ravens are a better team across the board

Complex
01-17-2012, 01:32 PM
I want the Ravens vs SF/NYG don't matter. I want Ed Reed to win a SB. I know if the Ravens win it will start Joe Flacco is elite talk. ugh

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Better O-line? Ravens
Running game? Ravens
D-line? Ravens
Linebackers? Ravens
Secondary? Ravens

What is funny is that this is a similar set up to the Giants-Packers game that no one thought the Giants would win


I want the Ravens vs SF/NYG don't matter. I want Ed Reed to win a SB. I know if the Ravens win it will start Joe Flacco is elite talk. ugh

Don't you say that :P

I think Ravens fans are pretty realistic about who Joe is as a QB. He isn't anything great but he is exactly what we need. A guy who can make throws to move the chains when needed to with the run game being the focal point.

If only Cam Cameron would realize this

bigbluedefense
01-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Think about what your saying man. If Flacco can be awful and still throw 2 TDs and no turnovers, what happens if he plays well, even just decent? Not mention hes going up against an incredibly inferior defense.

Its not a battle of Tom Brady vs Joe Flacco tho. Its Ravens v Patriots, and Brady over Flacco is just about the only advantage the Pats have (Him and his recievers)

Better O-line? Ravens
Running game? Ravens
D-line? Ravens
Linebackers? Ravens
Secondary? Ravens

Its one thing when your QB is turning the ball over and giving points to the other team. But just becuase hrs not Tom Brady

I get what you're saying. You're right, I'm being too harsh. I just don't trust Flacco in a big game. He's yet to show me he's capable of putting together a great game when he's on the spot.

He did it vs the Steelers this year, so maybe that's a sign. But for the most part, I don't view him as a big game qb. He's gonna have to prove me wrong for me to start trusting him. That's all.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 01:34 PM
What is funny is that this is a similar set up to the Giants-Packers game that no one thought the Giants would win

People thought the Giants would win. The main thing in that match up is the difference in QB was FAR less than it is here. And our WRs and QB both outplayed their counter parts as well. It was a beating. Without a few favorable calls it could have been worse.

BradysKnee
01-17-2012, 01:35 PM
He's also the guy that lost a home playoff game to a 2nd year Joe Flacco who threw 10 times. Oh and he let a 2nd year Mark Sanchez throw for 3 TDs and a 127 rating in another home playoff loss

I would say too much faith is an understatement

To compare those games is redundant. The team has grown and clearly wasn't ready to play either of those, but those games are useless to dwell on or compare.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 01:36 PM
People thought the Giants would win. The main thing in that match up is the difference in QB was FAR less than it is here.

That and the Giants are peeking. The Ravens slept walked against a team that handed them turnovers and won by one score.

Everything that typically causes me to doubt a team is going for the Ravens right now.

Complex
01-17-2012, 01:37 PM
To compare those games is redundant. The team has grown and clearly wasn't ready to play either of those, but those games are useless to dwell on or compare.

Just 3-4 weeks ago you guys claimed the pats were the worst defense ever.

JETS5128
01-17-2012, 01:45 PM
I get what you're saying. You're right, I'm being too harsh. I just don't trust Flacco in a big game. He's yet to show me he's capable of putting together a great game when he's on the spot.

He did it vs the Steelers this year, so maybe that's a sign. But for the most part, I don't view him as a big game qb. He's gonna have to prove me wrong for me to start trusting him. That's all.

I admit it is hard to trust Flacco haha. Its easier to trust him against an awful defense tho, and he's gaining experience/maturity in this his 4th year. This is the biggest moment for him in his career as he is the only thing (unless Brady goes off off off off) thats standing between Baltimore and an SB apperance.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:46 PM
People thought the Giants would win. The main thing in that match up is the difference in QB was FAR less than it is here. And our WRs and QB both outplayed their counter parts as well. It was a beating. Without a few favorable calls it could have been worse.

WHO? I know people who WANTED the Giants to win... I don't think that many people predicted that the Giants would come in and beat the 15-1 Packers.

(for the record, I did predict the Giants would win :P )

That and the Giants are peeking. The Ravens slept walked against a team that handed them turnovers and won by one score.

Everything that typically causes me to doubt a team is going for the Ravens right now.

and the Pats beat arguably one of the worst teams in the playoffs (other than an injury hampered Stealers) and are 0-2 against teams with winning records.

Not to mention your semi-contradicting yourself friend. You even said that the Texans might (paraphrasing) have been the best team in the playoffs. I wouldn't have called it sleep walking it was a well played, tough game with some bad play calling on one OC part

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 01:48 PM
WHO? I know people who WANTED the Giants to win... I don't think that many people predicted that the Giants would come in and beat the 15-1 Packers.

(for the record, I did predict the Giants would win :P )

There were certainly some. At least on this board. Maybe not on the national sports media. A few Packers fans were getting all pissy at the love people were giving the G-Men.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2012, 01:52 PM
3 guys on ESPN picked the Giants also. There were a decent amount going for the Giants.

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 01:52 PM
Not to mention your semi-contradicting yourself friend. You even said that the Texans might (paraphrasing) have been the best team in the playoffs. I wouldn't have called it sleep walking it was a well played, tough game with some bad play calling on one OC part

*With Matt Schaub. If they had him you would have been blown out. 4 free turnovers and you turned it into a one score victory over a team led by a rookie QB?

That's beyond what any reason team could hold you too. That takes self inflicted wounds as well.

Raiderz4Life
01-17-2012, 01:53 PM
I loved how Michael Strahan was the only one who picked the G-men as well...big **** you to all them other tards in there haha

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:55 PM
I know this isn't the end all be all but:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50492

Packers:10
Giants:5

I think there were a lot of people saying they wanted the Gmen or were rooting for them, but when it came to making picks I think the Pack was the favorite

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 01:56 PM
*With Matt Schaub. If they had him you would have been blown out. 4 free turnovers and you turned it into a one score victory over a team led by a rookie QB?

That's beyond what any reason team could hold you too. That takes self inflicted wounds as well.

I don't disagree that Schaub would be the difference but the lack of Schaub didn't exactly make them a scrub team.

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
I know this isn't the end all be all but:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50492

Packers:10
Giants:5

I think there were a lot of people saying they wanted the Gmen or were rooting for them, but when it came to making picks I think the Pack was the favorite

Of course they weren't picked the most. But 33% isn't bad for a 9-7 team going to a 15-1 team, who were a more than a TD favorite. Considering all that I think a decent amount of people took them.

That being said, you have a 12-4 team going to a 13-3 with basically the same point spread, and I don't think you'll see as many people taking the Ravens.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 02:01 PM
Thats fine and well but I think it's interesting that the matchup the way that Jets fan put it:

Better O-line? Ravens
Running game? Ravens
D-line? Ravens
Linebackers? Ravens
Secondary? Ravens

is kind of similar to the Giants-Packers match up yet no one thinks the Ravens can do it.

I will again list the biggest stat for me:

Pats record against teams with winning records 0-2

Ravens record against teams with winning records 6-0

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 02:02 PM
Thats fine and well but I think it's interesting that the matchup the way that jets fan put it is kind of similar to the Giants-Packers match up yet no one thinks the Ravens can do it.

I will again list the biggest stat for me:

Pats record against teams with winning records 0-2

Ravens record against teams with winning records 6-0

I don't think it is similar at all. The only similarity is the Pats and Packers. And even that's pushing it.

Those wins against the Steelers for the Ravens are so long ago at this point. They've been pretty average looking down the stretch.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 02:07 PM
I don't think it is similar at all. The only similarity is the Pats and Packers. And even that's pushing it.

DL: Ravens/Giants
LB: Ravens/(probably Packers)
Secondary:Ravens/Giants

OL:Ravens/Giants
WR/TE:Patriots/Packers
Run Game: Ravens/Giants
QB: Patriots/Packers

I know it isn't this simple but the match ups are somewhat similar.

Elite passing team with terrible D (31 and 32) against a defensive team with a good run game/OL

Giants have a better QB and probably better WR/TE group (although the Ravnes WR/TE isn't terrible)

MidwayMonster31
01-17-2012, 02:10 PM
I realize this, but Belichick isn't just going to let it happen in a playoff game. He's going to come up with something. Remember, this is the guy who took down young Peyton Manning in epic fashion multiple times in the playoffs.

And if the something he comes up with works even slightly, it could be a bad day for the Ravens. Having McCourty play more safety is a nifty trick to start.

Perhaps I have too much faith in Belichick.Yes you do.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2969_Belichick%27s_mojo_kicked_in_the_nuts.html

Jughead10
01-17-2012, 02:15 PM
DL: Ravens/Giants
LB: Ravens/(probably Packers)
Secondary:Ravens/Giants

OL:Ravens/Giants
WR/TE:Patriots/Packers
Run Game: Ravens/Giants
QB: Patriots/Packers

I know it isn't this simple but the match ups are somewhat similar.

Elite passing team with terrible D (31 and 32) against a defensive team with a good run game/OL

Giants have a better QB and probably better WR/TE group (although the Ravnes WR/TE isn't terrible)

If anything for the majority of the year, we were also like the Packers and Patriots. I believe we may have been 30 or 29 to the Packers/Pats 31 and 32. Our run game also I believe was statistically last in the league. Our defense has obviously turned it on and played lights out recently, however our run games is still poor. And probably better WR/TE group? Understatement of the year.

SuperPacker
01-17-2012, 02:28 PM
Where were you on turkey day?

Probably asleep. Packers games and Superbowls are the only time i stay up to watch the 8PM ET games. If I did watch them i would only get 2 hours sleep before i go to school.

FlyingElvis
01-17-2012, 02:38 PM
3 guys on ESPN picked the Giants also. There were a decent amount going for the Giants.

The Playbook crew was split on NFLN, too. Baldy & Sterling picked NYG and Thiesman & Millen picked GBay. If those two humps pick your team it's the kiss of death.

SuperPacker
01-17-2012, 02:44 PM
The Playbook crew was split on NFLN, too. Baldy & Sterling picked NYG and Thiesman & Millen picked GBay. If those two humps pick your team it's the kiss of death.

Sterling was being the biggest Packers homer ever! He had to wear a Rams jersey to decrease his packer homerism.

Rosebud
01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
DL: Ravens/Giants
LB: Ravens/(probably Packers)
Secondary:Ravens/Giants

OL:Ravens/Giants
WR/TE:Patriots/Packers
Run Game: Ravens/Giants
QB: Patriots/Packers

I know it isn't this simple but the match ups are somewhat similar.

Elite passing team with terrible D (31 and 32) against a defensive team with a good run game/OL

Giants have a better QB and probably better WR/TE group (although the Ravnes WR/TE isn't terrible)

Wish the giants OL and running game where as good as the Ravens running game and OL, that was at most a wash between the giants and packers. Going in the giants had an advantage at defending the pass and a QB and passing game that were sharp.

The Patriots are much less superior roster other than QB and the passing attack, where the Patriots are vastly superior much more so than Rodgers and co. were over Eli and his boys.

The more apt comparison would be to the 9ers/Saints game although that's faulty to because Alex Smith blew everyone away with his great performance. So it was unexpected just like a similar performance from Flacco would be justly unexpected in this game if Cam forces him to throw the ball 40+ times.

Ness
01-17-2012, 04:06 PM
I loved how Michael Strahan was the only one who picked the G-men as well...big **** you to all them other tards in there haha

That was awesome. He was the lone man standing and got the last laugh.

yodabear
01-17-2012, 04:43 PM
I picked the 49ers to go 3-13, lose to the Saints last week, so I will never pick them, it would **** them up!

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 04:45 PM
I picked the 49ers to go 3-13, lose to the Saints last week, so I will never pick them, it would **** them up!

I think you confused them with the Rams.

Jvig43
01-17-2012, 05:17 PM
Thats fine and well but I think it's interesting that the matchup the way that Jets fan put it:

is kind of similar to the Giants-Packers match up yet no one thinks the Ravens can do it.

I will again list the biggest stat for me:

Pats record against teams with winning records 0-2

Ravens record against teams with winning records 6-0

A couple of things to point out, both those loses for the Pats were awhile ago while it was reported that Brady was having Elbow issues. Secondly you guys have lost to the Jags, Seahawks, Titans, and only managed to beat the browns and cards by one score. Lastly, you got ******* smoked by the Chargers a few weeks ago and while the Pats lost to two winning teams we lost by one score each time. While I have been saying the Pats are going nowhere in the post season because of the defense I think your vastly overstating the importance of those records. It's the AFC championship game, both teams are healthy and the only record that matter right now are that we are both 1-0 in the playoffs.

Basileus777
01-17-2012, 05:27 PM
Thats fine and well but I think it's interesting that the matchup the way that Jets fan put it:

is kind of similar to the Giants-Packers match up yet no one thinks the Ravens can do it.

I will again list the biggest stat for me:

Pats record against teams with winning records 0-2

Ravens record against teams with winning records 6-0
Eh, the Giants don't really resemble the Ravens much at all. They are a team built around an elite QB and passing attack, that's hardly the case for Baltimore. The Pats and Packers are pretty similar, but that alone doesn't make for much of an argument.

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 07:40 PM
A couple of things to point out, both those loses for the Pats were awhile ago while it was reported that Brady was having Elbow issues. Secondly you guys have lost to the Jags, Seahawks, Titans, and only managed to beat the browns and cards by one score. Lastly, you got ******* smoked by the Chargers a few weeks ago and while the Pats lost to two winning teams we lost by one score each time. While I have been saying the Pats are going nowhere in the post season because of the defense I think your vastly overstating the importance of those records. It's the AFC championship game, both teams are healthy and the only record that matter right now are that we are both 1-0 in the playoffs.

I couldn't agree with you more. My point isn't to say that the Ravens are definitely going to beat the Pats; rather that those who aren't even giving the Ravens a shot are out of their minds.

It will be a good game

BeerBaron
01-17-2012, 07:46 PM
Alright, let's turn this into me "not giving them a shot..." I see how it goes. ;)

It's like the Packer fans last week who were pissing and moaning because people were giving the Giants "a chance."

Just a feeling that I have...looking at the coaches, looking at the QBs, getting a feel from last week's games...

Pats by 10.

Just the feeling. Maybe I'm wrong.

Raiderz4Life
01-17-2012, 07:56 PM
I would really like Balti to win...but idk...not an easy game

Sloopy
01-17-2012, 08:39 PM
Alright, let's turn this into me "not giving them a shot..." I see how it goes. ;)

It's like the Packer fans last week who were pissing and moaning because people were giving the Giants "a chance."

Just a feeling that I have...looking at the coaches, looking at the QBs, getting a feel from last week's games...

Pats by 10.

Just the feeling. Maybe I'm wrong.

Haha I'm not saying just you sir :P

I am all for giving the Pats a chance, I just think it's ridiculous to not give the Ravens one.

We will have to see how it turns out :)

49erNation85
01-17-2012, 10:30 PM
49ers are gonna take it ! Well at least I hope they down the Giants just like they did the Saints 5 more long days....

Ness
01-18-2012, 12:41 AM
Looks the Giants are already talking smack.

Can the Giants be stopped? Unknown. Can Antrel Rolle stop talking? Not even remotely possible.

Rolle, the safety who's gone from tasty barbecue to functional piece of a strong defense, already made it clear he believes the Giants are a team of destiny. Now's he's turning his attention to comments made by 49ers tight end Vernon Davis, who said last weekend he hoped -- quite understandably -- the Giants would beat the Packers so the NFC Championship Game would be played in San Francisco.

Davis got the outcome he was looking for, of course, but Rolle has a word of warning for his Sunday opponent.

"They better be careful what they ask for," Rolle said Tuesday on WFAN-AM (via the New York Daily News). "Because their wish has been granted."

Rolle said he "can only hope" Davis said what he did on account of the home-field ramifications involved. Rolle followed that with another bravado-fest that sounded like the type of thing a professional wrestler would bark at "Mean" Gene Okerlund before the Royal Rumble.

"I don't give a damn who we're playing, man," he said. "That's my take. I'll take any opponent, any given day. That's my attitude. If someone has a problem with it, oh well. But that's how I am. That's how I was raised. I don't shy away from any opponent. My heart doesn't pump any Kool-Aid, only blood. I'm ready for whenever, however, whatever, however it gets to me. I'm ready for it."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826180a1/article/rolle-keeps-rolling-giants-safety-calls-out-49ers-te-davis?module=HP11_around-the-league

Brent
01-18-2012, 05:33 AM
Looks the Giants are already talking smack.
the NFL is a bunch of ******* alpha males, what do you expect?

Ness
01-18-2012, 05:39 AM
the NFL is a bunch of ******* alpha males, what do you expect?

Not complaining. Just observing. The 49ers players never do this though. Interesting. Even after a 13-3 season you've never heard a peep.

Bengalsrocket
01-18-2012, 06:10 AM
Not complaining. Just observing. The 49ers players never do this though. Interesting. Even after a 13-3 season you've never heard a peep.

You don't get extra points for being humble or respectful (you also don't get extra points for smack talk either though).

However, if anyone comes out looking good in this, it's the Giants. At least they weren't scared of Green of Bay like Vernon Davis.

Ness
01-18-2012, 06:12 AM
You don't get extra points for being humble or respectful (you also don't get extra points for smack talk either though).

However, if anyone comes out looking good in this, it's the Giants. At least they weren't scared of Green of Bay like Vernon Davis.

Vernon Davis was scared because he wanted a home game?

"Oh look at me I'm tough let's go on the road for all of our playoff games"

Wow what a badass.

Vernon Davis mentioned in a recent radio interview he did yesterday that he wanted another playoff game mostly for the fans sake.

Bengalsrocket
01-18-2012, 06:17 AM
Vernon Davis was scared because he wanted a home game?

"Oh look at me I'm tough let's go on the road for all of our playoff games"

Okay buddy...

If you're publicly speaking about wanting another team to get knocked out of the play offs so you don't have to play them, it says to me that you're scared. It doesn't matter if you're worried about the team or the stadium you play in.

I never said Davis should root to play on the road just so he can say he is tough. I'm saying he should have never opened his mouth in the first place. Now he's going to host the Giants to a possible lose.

Keep your mouth shut and let your performance do the talking imo.

bigbluedefense
01-18-2012, 06:18 AM
Supposedly there will be monsoon conditions in SF this Sunday. That's good for SF, it will limit our deep passing attack.

Ness
01-18-2012, 06:26 AM
If you're publicly speaking about wanting another team to get knocked out of the play offs so you don't have to play them, it says to me that you're scared. It doesn't matter if you're worried about the team or the stadium you play in.

I never said Davis should root to play on the road just so he can say he is tough. I'm saying he should have never opened his mouth in the first place. Now he's going to host the Giants to a possible lose.

Keep your mouth shut and let your performance do the talking imo.

He said he wanted the fans to have another home game. I guess that means he's scared then LMFAO. Right, Vernon Davis is frightened.

Ness
01-18-2012, 06:31 AM
Supposedly there will be monsoon conditions in SF this Sunday. That's good for SF, it will limit our deep passing attack.

It will most likely be cold. Monsoon conditions don't really happen here, if ever. Apparently it's going to rain, but the weather flops here so much I'm always skeptical this far ahead. I usually am confident about two days before whatever. It's supposed to rain the entire week though, so it should be wet at Candlestick Sunday. Shame.

Razor
01-18-2012, 06:46 AM
Supposedly there will be monsoon conditions in SF this Sunday. That's good for SF, it will limit our deep passing attack.

Before I read this I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday. Now, not so much. Should make it a game at least instead of the blowout I was expecting otherwise.

Ness
01-18-2012, 06:52 AM
Before I read this I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday. Now, not so much. Should make it a game at least instead of the blowout I was expecting otherwise.

Not sure how you thought the 49ers would get blown out when they are at home, and the most they've lost by is 10 points all season long (which was on the road)...not to mention didn't they just beat the greatest offense known to mankind?

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 06:59 AM
Not sure how you thought the 49ers would get blown out when they are at home, and the most they've lost by is 10 points all season long (which was on the road)...not to mention didn't they just beat the greatest offense known to mankind?

No you didn't. The Giants did that in Super Bowl 42.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 07:06 AM
No you didn't. The Giants did that in Super Bowl 42.

No! According to Packer fans, this team was GOAT at ehhhhrything.

farfromforgotten
01-18-2012, 07:10 AM
If you're publicly speaking about wanting another team to get knocked out of the play offs so you don't have to play them, it says to me that you're scared. It doesn't matter if you're worried about the team or the stadium you play in.

I never said Davis should root to play on the road just so he can say he is tough. I'm saying he should have never opened his mouth in the first place. Now he's going to host the Giants to a possible lose.

Keep your mouth shut and let your performance do the talking imo.

Didn't Victor Cruz just admit to being relieved to not have to face the Saints again?

Razor
01-18-2012, 07:11 AM
Not sure how you thought the 49ers would get blown out when they are at home, and the most they've lost by is 10 points all season long (which was on the road)...not to mention didn't they just beat the greatest offense known to mankind?

Yeah, I know... Before the playoffs I dubbed the Giants as the most dangerous team going into the post season. I stand by that now more than ever. I don't think your offense stands a chance tbh, and with the way Eli has been playing lately, especially on the road, I just don't see you winning. I'd love for the niners to win, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's going to happen. Right now the Giants are my favorites to win the SB. Neither the Patriots and especially the Ravens would stand a chance against them in the SB, whereas I think San Francisco would lose the SB no matter who there were to face.

BradysKnee
01-18-2012, 07:12 AM
No you didn't. The Giants did that in Super Bowl 42.

Yeah, even the Pats offense this year > Saints IMO.

farfromforgotten
01-18-2012, 07:16 AM
Before I read this I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday. Now, not so much. Should make it a game at least instead of the blowout I was expecting otherwise.

Its one thing to think the Giants are going to win. But to say that they would "absolutely kill" the 49ers on Sunday is laughable. We are at home. We have played solid D all year. We are not going to get "killed" in this game. No matter what the weather forcast is.

Ness
01-18-2012, 07:20 AM
Yeah, I know... Before the playoffs I dubbed the Giants as the most dangerous team going into the post season. I stand by that now more than ever. I don't think your offense stands a chance tbh, and with the way Eli has been playing lately, especially on the road, I just don't see you winning. I'd love for the niners to win, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's going to happen. Right now the Giants are my favorites to win the SB. Neither the Patriots and especially the Ravens would stand a chance against them in the SB, whereas I think San Francisco would lose the SB no matter who there were to face.

Oh it's fine. Everyone has doubted San Francisco this season and we've usually made them look like idiots.

Let's see, 49ers weren't supposed to beat Eagles, Lions, Giants, Steelers, and the Saints. Yet we did.

Yeah I wonder how the Giants would have done on the road against New Orleans had the 49ers lost. Would you still be drinking the kool-aid jack?

bigbluedefense
01-18-2012, 07:22 AM
Not sure how you thought the 49ers would get blown out when they are at home, and the most they've lost by is 10 points all season long (which was on the road)...not to mention didn't they just beat the greatest offense known to mankind?

I'll be shocked if this game is a blowout either way. These 2 teams are very evenly matched. That SF defense is so tough. So fast, incredible tackling, so fundamentally sound, Justin Smith is an animal, Aldon is going to be a star in this league, they have the best defense in the league imo.

And Rogers is a great CB. They have a good safety duo. Just studly all over. Their only weakness is nickel CB. That's the guy we gotta expose.

Ness
01-18-2012, 07:23 AM
Its one thing to think the Giants are going to win. But to say that they would "absolutely kill" the 49ers on Sunday is laughable. We are at home. We have played solid D all year. We are not going to get "killed" in this game. No matter what the weather forcast is.

But what about Manning's road success? o.O

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 07:38 AM
Ness, you're sounding like the Packers fans last week...

"Wahh! Why are people giving the Giants a chance!?!?!?!? Why isn't anyone talking about the 49ers!?!?!?!"

People are giving the Giants a chance because they have a really good chance. They just went in and knocked off everyone's presumptive Superbowl favorites on the road a few years after this core group stopped an undefeated team in the Superbowl.

You make it seem as though anyone who isn't unequivocally in favor of the 49ers is in some way a biased moron.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 07:40 AM
Ness, you're sounding like the Packers fans last week...

"Wahh! Why are people giving the Giants a chance!?!?!?!? Why isn't anyone talking about the 49ers!?!?!?!"

People are giving the Giants a chance because they have a really good chance. They just went in and knocked off everyone's presumptive Superbowl favorites on the road a few years after this core group stopped an undefeated team in the Superbowl.

You make it seem as though anyone who isn't unequivocally in favor of the 49ers is in some way a biased moron.

I was going to post something similar to this. I don't know what it is but the Giants being given a chance is really getting to people. The 49'ers are favored for crying out loud so it's not like everyone in the world has the Giants romping to a victory.

farfromforgotten
01-18-2012, 07:53 AM
Ness, you're sounding like the Packers fans last week...

"Wahh! Why are people giving the Giants a chance!?!?!?!? Why isn't anyone talking about the 49ers!?!?!?!"

People are giving the Giants a chance because they have a really good chance. They just went in and knocked off everyone's presumptive Superbowl favorites on the road a few years after this core group stopped an undefeated team in the Superbowl.

You make it seem as though anyone who isn't unequivocally in favor of the 49ers is in some way a biased moron.

I don't really hear any talk about the 49ers. Which I'm fine with, btw. Maybe I'm not listening close enough. All I heard last week was the 49ers can't keep up with Brees and Co. They can't score enough. Blah blah blah. I really haven't listened to much sports talk this week so I don't know how the talking heads are calling this one.

All I know is, as a 49ers fan, is I was more worried about us being able to stop Brees, Sproles, and Graham than I am Manning, Hicks, and Cruz. No disrespect to the Giants and those players. Should be another great game.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 07:55 AM
I was going to post something similar to this. I don't know what it is but the Giants being given a chance is really getting to people. The 49'ers are favored for crying out loud so it's not like everyone in the world has the Giants romping to a victory.

Honestly, that does still surprise me a little bit. Just a little. Just for the pure fact that I would have though the Giants knocking off the Packers would have given them a boost.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 07:59 AM
Vegas knows how good they really are and the Giants fans here do as well. Not one of us thinks that we'll go into SF and dominate the game. This is going to be a grind it out type of day where it's basically a toss up. The SF defense has been great all year, you have a coach who preaches exactly what I like to see in a football team, and now a QB who has more confidence than almost any other with the way he's played. I absolutely think the Giants can win this game but I'm also not booking my trip to Indy right now.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:05 AM
How big is the gap? I would have guessed fewer than 3 points.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 08:06 AM
It's at 2.5 points right now.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:08 AM
Seems about right. It's probably a toss up game, so you give the 49ers a little for homefield.

farfromforgotten
01-18-2012, 08:11 AM
Vegas knows how good they really are and the Giants fans here do as well. Not one of us thinks that we'll go into SF and dominate the game. This is going to be a grind it out type of day where it's basically a toss up. The SF defense has been great all year, you have a coach who preaches exactly what I like to see in a football team, and now a QB who has more confidence than almost any other with the way he's played. I absolutely think the Giants can win this game but I'm also not booking my trip to Indy right now.

Good post. Can't wait for this game!

Razor
01-18-2012, 08:25 AM
Oh it's fine. Everyone has doubted San Francisco this season and we've usually made them look like idiots.

Let's see, 49ers weren't supposed to beat Eagles, Lions, Giants, Steelers, and the Saints. Yet we did.

Yeah I wonder how the Giants would have done on the road against New Orleans had the 49ers lost. Would you still be drinking the kool-aid jack?

Well... Yes. I picked to 49ers to beat the Saints, I'm fully aware that the 9ers are a very good team. I just feel like the Giants are a better team who can still throw the ball in bad weather. I don't get this hostility from 49er fans when you go against them, it's like the Packers fans a few weeks ago. I know the 49ers have a good team, that's not the point.

abaddon41_80
01-18-2012, 08:29 AM
I just don't understand all this talk about how the Giants are the hottest team right now. Weren't the Saints considered the hottest team coming into their game against the 49ers?

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 08:34 AM
I just don't understand all this talk about how the Giants are the hottest team right now. Weren't the Saints considered the hottest team coming into their game against the 49ers?

At home they were. Many had doubts with them on the road. For the Giants it is probably reversed. Play better on the road and worse at home.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:35 AM
Well... Yes. I picked to 49ers to beat the Saints, I'm fully aware that the 9ers are a very good team. I just feel like the Giants are a better team who can still throw the ball in bad weather. I don't get this hostility from 49er fans when you go against them, it's like the Packers fans a few weeks ago. I know the 49ers have a good team, that's not the point.

I just find your "predictions" kind of outrageous. 49ers are going to get blown out at home where they are 8-1 and the most they've lost by is 10 points via a road game? Against a team they already beat earlier this season? You know the 49ers lead the NFL in takeaways and lead the NFL in not giving it away right?

And all of those factors go out the window because Manning plays well on the road? Just seems like you assume the storybook journey is going to continue because it makes well for a nice movie or something.

And what hostility are you speaking of? How am I being hostile towards you?

Razor
01-18-2012, 08:38 AM
At home they were. Many had doubts with them on the road. For the Giants it is probably reversed. Play better on the road and worse at home.

Yeah, this was my problem with the Saints. At home they're an unstoppable force, but on the road they're Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. And you never really know who decides to show up. That was why I was so sure the 9ers would win against the Saints this week. I feel like the Giants are a great away team and have some favorable matchups in this game. I've been on the Giants bandwagon since late in the season since this season just reminded me of their 2007 campaign. So yeah, I think the Giants are going to win the SB. But I really hope that the Patriots are able to upset them.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:38 AM
Ness, you're sounding like the Packers fans last week...

"Wahh! Why are people giving the Giants a chance!?!?!?!? Why isn't anyone talking about the 49ers!?!?!?!"

People are giving the Giants a chance because they have a really good chance. They just went in and knocked off everyone's presumptive Superbowl favorites on the road a few years after this core group stopped an undefeated team in the Superbowl.

You make it seem as though anyone who isn't unequivocally in favor of the 49ers is in some way a biased moron.

There is a difference between giving the Giants a chance and saying the 49ers are going to get blown out at home. I didn't say the Giants couldn't win the game.

Rosebud
01-18-2012, 08:39 AM
Not complaining. Just observing. The 49ers players never do this though. Interesting. Even after a 13-3 season you've never heard a peep.

What Antrelle Rolle said was no worse than VD saying he was hoping we'd win...

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:40 AM
I just don't understand all this talk about how the Giants are the hottest team right now. Weren't the Saints considered the hottest team coming into their game against the 49ers?

This is what I don't get. This is what the Packer fans were pissing and moaning about last week too.

The core group of this Giants team went on a run like this once before and just knocked off everyone's presumptive favorites in the Packers. And now they're on another tear. They ended the regular season beating down the Jets and Cowboys to get into the playoffs, allowed only a safety vs. the Falcons and just demolished the Packers. Demolished them. Take away the drives aided by horrible officiating and the Giants basically allowed a supposed GOAT candidate offensive unit 6 points.

And people, aka fans of the opposing team, are complaining about them being given a chance. God forbid that a team on a tear isn't even being given a chance. How dare they!

I think there's a little bit of fear mixed in...deep down inside, everyone is a little afraid of the Giants. Eli is playing like an elite QB and their defense is on a great 4 game stretch. So people just don't want to hear about them.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:40 AM
There is a difference between giving the Giants a chance and saying the 49ers are going to get blown out at home. I didn't say the Giants couldn't win the game.

Quote for me one post where anyone said the 49ers were going to get blown out. Morons on ESPN don't count.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:42 AM
What Antrelle Rolle said was no worse than VD saying he was hoping we'd win...

Didn't say one was better than the other.

Razor
01-18-2012, 08:42 AM
Quote for me one post where anyone said the 49ers were going to get blown out. Morons on ESPN don't count.

I think he's referring to me saying that I was expecting the Giants to absolutely kill the 49ers until I heard that there is going to be bad weather. I never said anything about a blowout though... I guess the 9ers fans are a bit on edge lol.

abaddon41_80
01-18-2012, 08:43 AM
This is what I don't get. This is what the Packer fans were pissing and moaning about last week too.

The core group of this Giants team went on a run like this once before and just knocked off everyone's presumptive favorites in the Packers. And now they're on another tear. They ended the regular season beating down the Jets and Cowboys to get into the playoffs, allowed only a safety vs. the Falcons and just demolished the Packers. Demolished them. Take away the drives aided by horrible officiating and the Giants basically allowed a supposed GOAT candidate offensive unit 6 points.

And people, aka fans of the opposing team, are complaining about them being given a chance. God forbid that a team on a tear isn't even being given a chance. How dare they!

I think there's a little bit of fear mixed in...deep down inside, everyone is a little afraid of the Giants. Eli is playing like an elite QB and their defense is on a great 4 game stretch. So people just don't want to hear about them.

My point is that before the Saints played the 49ers everyone considered them to be the hottest team in the playoffs. Now that they are eliminated everyone is going back and acting like they have said the hottest team all along has been the Giants.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:45 AM
Quote for me one post where anyone said the 49ers were going to get blown out. Morons on ESPN don't count.

Before I read this I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday. Now, not so much. Should make it a game at least instead of the blowout I was expecting otherwise.

Razor is trying to get out of this now, but apparently it was going to be a blowout if it wasn't going to rain Sunday.

Oh I'm sorry, "kill" and "blowout" are completely different.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:46 AM
My point is that before the Saints played the 49ers everyone considered them to be the hottest team in the playoffs. Now that they are eliminated everyone is going back and acting like they have said the hottest team all along has been the Giants.

No, not everyone. Like one moron somewhere maybe. Go back and look through my "thoughts" threads. At one point I picked the Giants as my (non-wildcard) "Wildcard" team for which no result would surprise me.

And last week, I said the Saints/49ers game was going to be a good game toss-up, and in the end, it was.

I feel the same way about this week's game. Giving the Giants a chance =/= "ZOMG best team ever blowout winzz!!"

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 08:46 AM
My point is that before the Saints played the 49ers everyone considered them to be the hottest team in the playoffs. Now that they are eliminated everyone is going back and acting like they have said the hottest team all along has been the Giants.

Again, I'm not sure if that is entirely true.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:47 AM
Again, I'm not sure if that is entirely true.

Saints were favored by 4 points in that game. I listen to a lot of podcasts and sports radio all week. Most people thought the Saints would win.

Rosebud
01-18-2012, 08:48 AM
Didn't say one was better than the other.

You said that the 9ers don't talk ish the way Antrelle Rolle was...

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 08:48 AM
Saints were favored by 4 points in that game.

At that proves what? That reason for a point spread is to split wagering 50/50. The fact that the Saints were favored doesn't mean people thought they were the hottest team. Maybe they were just down on the 49ers. Hell they turned the ball over 5 times and still almost won. The Packers turned the ball over a lot against us and got beat badly. Besides the Pats defense, the 49ers offense is probably the worst unit left in this tournament. People still don't trust it.

Razor
01-18-2012, 08:48 AM
Razor is trying to get out of this now, but apparently it was going to be a blowout if it wasn't going to rain Sunday.

Oh I'm sorry, "kill" and "blowout" are completely different.

Take a look at what I wrote at first:
Supposedly there will be monsoon conditions in SF this Sunday. That's good for SF, it will limit our deep passing attack.

Before I read this I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday. Now, not so much. Should make it a game at least instead of the blowout I was expecting otherwise.

What's changed? I've been saying the same thing the whole ******* time. Get a grip... I know you're excited to be back in the playoffs, but that doesn't mean you're unfuckingbeatable.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:49 AM
You said that the 9ers don't talk ish the way Antrelle Rolle was...

Still didn't say one was better than the other though. Some folks like trash talk. That's fine. I'm just saying I noticed a difference.

abaddon41_80
01-18-2012, 08:49 AM
Maybe not on this board, though there were plenty here saying they were, but almost every ESPN/NFLN/CBS/whatever analysts did exactly that. Given the stats I am just surprised that there seem to be more people picking the Giants than the 49ers, especially after the 49ers just proved that they could win a shootout when no one thought they could.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 08:52 AM
Maybe not on this board, though there were plenty here saying they were, but almost every ESPN/NFLN/CBS/whatever analysts did exactly that. Given the facts I am just surprised that there seem to be more people picking the Giants than the 49ers, especially after the 49ers just proved that they could win a shootout when no one thought they could.

Do you think they could do it again? They certainly don't want to play that way if they had their choice, and haven't shown being capable of doing that at any other point this season.

Ness
01-18-2012, 08:52 AM
Take a look at what I wrote at first:


What's changed? I've been saying the same thing the whole ******* time. Get a grip... I know you're excited to be back in the playoffs, but that doesn't mean you're unfuckingbeatable.

Where did I say the 49ers were unbeatable? I said that I thought it was ridiculous that they would get blown out at home.

I did take a look at what you said:

I was sure that the Giants would absolutely kill the 9ers on sunday.

I guess that is different from being blown out though.

Again, where did I say the 49ers were unbeatable before you reply.

Razor
01-18-2012, 08:56 AM
Where did I say the 49ers were unbeatable? I said that I thought it was ridiculous that they would get blown out at home.

I did take a look at what you said:



I guess that is different from being blown out though.

Again, where did I say the 49ers were unbeatable before you reply.

That was a good job completely removing what I stated about the effects of the weather change, gj on that. You should work in the middle east:
yfAeMtcURg0
And no, "absolutely kill" is not the same as "blowing them out". It might be to you, but so far you've succesfully demonstrated that you're not capable of getting the simplest of messages. So I don't expect you to start now.

Rosebud
01-18-2012, 08:58 AM
Still didn't say one was better than the other though. Some folks like trash talk. That's fine. I'm just saying I noticed a difference.

Are you trying to troll me?

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 08:58 AM
Here's how I would rank the units as Jughead brought up:

1. NE Offense
2. SF Defense
3. NY Offense
4. Bal Defense
5. NY Defense
6. Bal Offense
7. SF Offense
8. NE Defense

Ness
01-18-2012, 09:00 AM
What you said about the weather doesn't matter Razor. Especially since I addressed it earlier here. If I was trying to hide that why would I have told BeerBaron this quote?

Razor is trying to get out of this now, but apparently it was going to be a blowout if it wasn't going to rain Sunday.

Nice try at an attempt to make me look like the bad guy. Oh and before you reply I guess you can use the tactic of "see you are still using 'blowout' when I said 'kill'" card.

Because those terms are in no way synonymous regarding a football game.

Still waiting to see where I said the 49ers are unbeatable.

Rosebud
01-18-2012, 09:02 AM
Here's how I would rank the units as Jughead brought up:

1. NE Offense
2. SF Defense
3. NY Offense
4. Bal Defense
5. NY Defense
6. Bal Offense
7. SF Offense
8. NE Defense

I'd put Baltimore's O on par with San Fran's. I trust Joe Flacco just as much as I do Alex Smith while trusting Harbaugh a lot more than Cam to not go full ****** with his playcalling.

Similarly I'd put the giants D and Baltimore's on par with one another, especially the way the giants are playing right now, after shutting out the Falcons and holding the Packers to 6 points without the refs got involvement. Now I do expect Fewell to go full ****** any minute now, but until he does I think our D has been at least on par with theirs.

abaddon41_80
01-18-2012, 09:04 AM
Do you think they could do it again? They certainly don't want to play that way if they had their choice, and haven't shown being capable of doing that at any other point this season.

They haven't done so because, for the most part, they haven't needed to. When they got down by 20 at Philadelphia they did exactly that, though. Smith went 9/9 for 179 yards and two touchdowns in the third quarter of that game. Every time the 49ers have had to throw this season, sans @Arizona and @Baltimore, they have been successful in doing so. I have no doubt in my mind that they can win another shootout if they need to.

I see this game going very similarly to the first game against the Giants. The Giants will sell-out to stop the run and be mildly successful in doing so, though not as much as last time because Gore presumably won't get injured, and try and force Alex Smith to beat them. He will play as well as he did the last time and the 49ers defense will force a couple of turnovers of Eli. Lets not forget that if Ted Ginn doesn't give the Giants an interception then the 49ers likely win the last game by two scores.

I see the final being something like 27-24 in favor of the 49ers, with turnovers being the difference.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 09:05 AM
I'd put Baltimore's O on par with San Fran's. I trust Joe Flacco just as much as I do Alex Smith while trusting Harbaugh a lot more than Cam to not go full ****** with his playcalling.

Similarly I'd put the giants D and Baltimore's on par with one another, especially the way the giants are playing right now, after shutting out the Falcons and holding the Packers to 6 points without the refs got involvement. Now I do expect Fewell to go full ****** any minute now, but until he does I think our D has been at least on par with theirs.

If I did a tier system they I would agree with the defensive rankings. I'd still keep Baltimore offense ahead of the SF offense though because Rice is better than Gore and I like Boldin and Smith more than the SF WR's.

Razor
01-18-2012, 09:11 AM
What you said about the weather doesn't matter Razor. Especially since I addressed it earlier here. If I was trying to hide that why would I have told BeerBaron this quote?



Nice try at an attempt to make me look like the bad guy. Oh and before you reply I guess you can use the tactic of "see you are still using 'blowout' when I said 'kill'" card.

Because those terms are in no way synonymous regarding a football game.

Still waiting to see where I said the 49ers are unbeatable.
I that case I must have misinterpreted you. But I never tried to get out of anything. Had the weather been good the Giants would've killed the 9ers imo. I stand by that now and will continue to do so. I like the 9ers' chances much better in bad weather. This is my opinion, and you can disagree with me all you want coz it won't change.

Ness
01-18-2012, 09:18 AM
I that case I must have misinterpreted you. But I never tried to get out of anything. Had the weather been good the Giants would've killed the 9ers imo. I stand by that now and will continue to do so. I like the 9ers' chances much better in bad weather. This is my opinion, and you can disagree with me all you want coz it won't change.

Well it is what it is. I wasn't trying to be hostile to you. By the way I like your signature gif.

hockey619
01-18-2012, 09:43 AM
Well it is what it is. I wasn't trying to be hostile to you. By the way I like your signature gif.

you stated that the niners havent lost by more than 10 at home this year and that was the reasoning to not expect a blowout. to be fair, GB was undefeated at home and the Giants trucked them. Just saying that that argument doesnt really hold water here.




i expect this to be a great game. the 9ers want to run the ball, and the giants really havent been that great at stopping the ground game and dont have the best LBers so this bodes well for the 9ers. Im not sure how the Gmen handle VD (rolle? kenny philips would be an ok matchup with him but idk hes on fire) but i think they can easily handle SF's wide recievers. Its really VD especially on PA's and that ground game that worry me.

On O, i think it comes down to how the giants work the sidelines. i think SF can take away the middle and the ground game with their linebackers only manningham is really fast enough to be a bad mismatch in the middle cruz could be an issue too but not as consistent of a worry there i dont think. it really comes down to what cruz and nicks can do on the outside with back shoulder passes and jump balls, nerve racking thought when the weather isnt supposed to be good.

i really think this is going to be a tight contest and as a giants fan, i dont really care if SF wins, i love the way their coached and wouldnt mind watching them in the super bowl.

farfromforgotten
01-18-2012, 09:45 AM
Quote for me one post where anyone said the 49ers were going to get blown out. Morons on ESPN don't count.

Sweater-vest mentions the Gmen "stomping us" in an earlier post. Razor states that they would "kill us" if the weather were different. Stomping and killing a team could be seen as "blowing out" a team I would think. Now neither of these posters are Giants fans from what I know.

I think Giants and 49er fans have a healthy respect for eachother on these boards right now. I guess that because no poster from another teams fan base has come in here and said that the 49ers are gonna stomp or kill the Giants that some people may be a little irked by that. I don't think that any of us 49ers fans are gonna post something like that. We think we're gonna win, and if your team is still playing at this point in the season you should think that.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 10:19 AM
Just to bring the trash talking up a notch. In the limited wall space we have at our small place, I only managed to get my girlfriend to agree to two framed sports pictures on the walls. An autographed picture of this being one of them.

http://sadpanda.us/images/734226-LLUM83L.jpg

How about this part 2 this weekend. JPP on Alex Smith. Although it won't quite have the same effect.

Ness
01-18-2012, 10:20 AM
you stated that the niners havent lost by more than 10 at home this year and that was the reasoning to not expect a blowout. to be fair, GB was undefeated at home and the Giants trucked them. Just saying that that argument doesnt really hold water here.
I mentioned that as one of the reasons. Not just the only one.

Those are two different situations though when talking about the 49ers and Packers. We're talking about a defense that just played a game last week. Green Bay's starting unit hadn't played a game since Christmas. Oh and the Packers had the last ranked defense in the NFL. So I think it kind of does make sense if you want to compare those two situations.

Obviously it's possible that the 49ers could get blown out. The entire song and dance I went through earlier with Razor though was basically asking him what the basis for that conclusion was...and the only answer was "Manning is on fire".

Ness
01-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Just to bring the trash talking up a notch. In the limited wall space we have at our small place, I only managed to get my girlfriend to agree to two framed sports pictures on the walls. An autographed picture of this being one of them.

http://sadpanda.us/images/734226-LLUM83L.jpg

How about this part 2 this weekend. JPP on Alex Smith. Although it won't quite have the same effect.

You know we're gonna bring the pain jack.

http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2003/01/06/sportsGIANTS49ers_t640.jpg?a6ea3ebd4438a44b86d2e9c 39ecf7613005fe067

Should be a good game.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 10:29 AM
You know we're gonna bring the pain jack.

http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2003/01/06/sportsGIANTS49ers_t640.jpg?a6ea3ebd4438a44b86d2e9c 39ecf7613005fe067

Should be a good game.

Was that even a good play? I only remember the refs screwing us that game.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 10:32 AM
Was that even a good play? I only remember the refs screwing us that game.

Was Bill Leavy officiating that one too?

I'm not kidding. The two games with some of the worst officiating blunders I've ever seen were both Leavy reffed.

Ness
01-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Was that even a good play? I only remember the refs screwing us that game.

Tai Streets scoring a touchdown? Yeah that was a good play seeing as it took the lead.

49ers got a way with a bad call, I admit. But you can't tell me that the Giants didn't deserve to lose that game after giving up like 21 unanswered points or whatever it was.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 10:45 AM
Was Bill Leavy officiating that one too?

I'm not kidding. The two games with some of the worst officiating blunders I've ever seen were both Leavy reffed.

Ron Winter. Almost just a bad.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 10:56 AM
There is no god damned way the Giants defense is as good as the Ravens. GTFO with that ****. Haloti Ngata and Terrell Suggs are both better then anyone you have on your defense, and Ray Lewis is worth more then your entire LB core combined. Hell, Ed Reed is worth more then your entire secondary as well.

I love me some Justin Tuck and JPP played out of his mind this year, but come on. Osi is a situational pass rusher at this point in his career.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:04 AM
Ed Reed isn't as good as Rolle. Not anymore. And Suggs is hit/miss. He's disappeared in a few games where JPP never disappears. But I would still put your D better.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Ed Reed isn't as good as Rolle

LOL not sure if serious.

And Suggs is hit/miss

I love that people think because of ONE GAME where Suggs didn't get a sack, he is hit/miss. Forget the fact that he convincingly covered ANDRE JOHNSON (thats right, LB on a WR, and not just any WR) he didn't get a sack so he has to be bad right?

But I would still put your D better.

Yes, the 3rd ranked defense in the league this year might be a little better than the 27th ranked. You guys have been playing better, but let's not kid ourselves here.

Come on man, I know your better than this

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:13 AM
LOL not sure if serious.

100% serious. He's not anymore. Obviously over the course of their careers it isn't close. But right now, Reed isn't as good. Physically he just can't do what Rolle can.

Ness
01-18-2012, 11:13 AM
Ed Reed isn't as good as Rolle right now? I'll take my chances with Reed man.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:16 AM
100% serious. He's not anymore. Obviously over the course of their careers it isn't close. But right now, Reed isn't as good. Physically he just can't do what Rolle can.

Antrel Rolle has been, for the majority of his career, a glorified nickel back. He's never been as good at FS as he has been sliding down into the slot and working inside.

I'm taking Ed Reed 10/10 in this discussion, even at this stage of their respective careers. I've the sneaking suspicion everyone else who isn't a Giants fan would feel similarly.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm already on record saying that I think the Ravens D is a little overrated. Suggs is pass rush option A, B and C. Lewis and Reed still bring the intimidation factor, but Lewis pretty clearly isn't as fast as he used to be and Reed is always nursing an injured something.

Still better than the Giants D? Ehh, I guess. But the Giants D has really picked it up in recent weeks. I don't think there's as big of gap as the season statistics may indicate.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:17 AM
100% serious. He's not anymore. Obviously over the course of their careers it isn't close. But right now, Reed isn't as good.

On what basis is Rolle on the same level as Reed? It's pretty ridiculous to even think about... People AVOID throwing Reeds way like the plague and he still has more INTs and passes defended than Rolle.

I'm sorry to say this but it is really starting to seem like the Giants fans around here are turning into the PackerZZZ fans of last year.

Eli better than Peyton thread? Check

Claiming random players on team are better than player X in the league who is widely considered the best at their position? Check

The INJURIEZZZ? Check

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:19 AM
Antrel Rolle has been, for the majority of his career, a glorified nickel back. He's never been as good at FS as he has been sliding down into the slot and working inside.

I'm taking Ed Reed 10/10 in this discussion, even at this stage of their respective careers. I've the sneaking suspicion everyone else who isn't a Giants fan would feel similarly.

Because Reed goes by on reputation. I watch nearly every Ravens game. He's not the same player anymore. He just can't cover like Rolle can. And Rolle plays nickel back out of absolute necessity. With our injuries he's the only guy who can man up on someone in the slot or cover a TE, all while getting his helmet dirty inside on the run game.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:19 AM
I'm already on record saying that I think the Ravens D is a little overrated. Suggs is pass rush option A, B and C. Lewis and Reed still bring the intimidation factor, but Lewis pretty clearly isn't as fast as he used to be and Reed is always nursing an injured something.

Still better than the Giants D? Ehh, I guess. But the Giants D has really picked it up in recent weeks. I don't think there's as big of gap as the season statistics may indicate.

Forget the fact that they are were the #3 defense in the league this year... clearly overrated.

It's not like they are doing poorly and people are claiming that they are still good (overrated). They are putting up the stats to back it up.

I'm sorry, I have a lot of respect for a lot of you guys... but you seem to all being caught up in the moment of one game.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:22 AM
On what basis is Rolle on the same level as Reed? It's pretty ridiculous to even think about... People AVOID throwing Reeds way like the plague and he still has more INTs and passes defended than Rolle.

I'm sorry to say this but it is really starting to seem like the Giants fans around here are turning into the PackerZZZ fans of last year.

Eli better than Peyton thread? Check

Claiming random players on team are better than player X in the league who is widely considered the best at their position? Check

The INJURIEZZZ? Check

I never said Eli is better than Peyton. And someone who considers Reed the best at his position is going off past performances. He's getting the fading star treatment at this point from fans around the league. Oh who should I vote for Pro Bowl? Oh Ed Reed he's been there a ton, he must still be amazing.

Despite being older, Lewis is playing at a higher level respectively at his position than Reed is in my opinion.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:24 AM
I never said Eli is better than Peyton. And someone who considers Reed the best at his position is going off past performances. He's getting the fading star treatment at this point from fans around the league. Oh who should I vote for Pro Bowl? Oh Ed Reed he's been there a ton, he must still be amazing.

This may be, I would still take him over Rolle whom I wouldn't even put at 2nd best FS in the league if I had Reed at #1.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:26 AM
Because Reed goes by on reputation. I watch nearly every Ravens game. He's not the same player anymore. He just can't cover like Rolle can. And Rolle plays nickel back out of absolute necessity. With our injuries he's the only guy who can man up on someone in the slot or cover a TE, all while getting his helmet dirty inside on the run game.

Well Rolle is a converted CB, I'd expect him to play better in man zero then Reed. That's not the point. If you ask any QB in the league who their least favorite person to throw against is, it's not Darrelle Revis. And it isn't Nnamdi Asomuagha. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have all said, within the past few seasons even, that Ed Reed is till the single most feared defensive back when talking about pass coverage. The effect he has on the way a QB moves the ball through the air is quite literally unmatched both now and over the duration of his career.

I'll readily admit he isn't the physical presence he used to be from the back end, but he is still an electric player in coverage. And I watch every Ravens game.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:26 AM
This may be, I would still take him over Rolle whom I wouldn't even put at 2nd best FS in the league if I had Reed at #1.

I wouldn't put Rolle as the second best FS in the league either. But I'm not sure if Reed is in my top 5. Safeties are so interchangeable these days anyway. Not for the Ravens though. Mainly because of Reed's current skill set.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:28 AM
Well Rolle is a converted CB, I'd expect him to play better in man zero then Reed. That's not the point. If you ask any QB in the league who their least favorite person to throw against is, it's not Darrelle Revis. And it isn't Nnamdi Asomuagha. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have all said, within the past few seasons even, that Ed Reed is till the single most feared defensive back when talking about pass coverage. The effect he has on the way a QB moves the ball through the air is quite literally unmatched both now and over the duration of his career.

I'll readily admit he isn't the physical presence he used to be from the back end, but he is still an electric player in coverage. And I watch every Ravens game.

Oh thats not a good argument. Players blow smoke up each others' asses all the time. Favre could come out of retirement next year and they'd be giving him similar praise. Also, I am not talking about the past few seasons. I'm talking about only this season.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:30 AM
I wouldn't put Rolle as the second best FS in the league either. But I'm not sure if Reed is in my top 5. Safeties are so interchangeable these days anyway. Not for the Ravens though. Mainly because of Reed's current skill set.

Even IF you don't want to put him #1 (thats your prerogative I guess) you'd be hard pressed to find 5 safeties better than Ed Reed even now.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:33 AM
This thread is kind of funny...

It just started yesterday, and we're already 10 pages in. So far, there was a lengthy Pats/Ravens debate that eventually devolved into blatant homerism and cooler heads just getting the **** out...then the 49ers fans became the Packers fans from last week bitching about the Giants being "given a chance," and now we're debating Giants D vs. Ravens D.

You get this deep into the playoffs and hostilities man, they go through the roof. Was I like this last year?

And yes, I am guilty of inciting most of it.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:38 AM
Oh thats not a good argument. Players blow smoke up each others' asses all the time. Favre could come out of retirement next year and they'd be giving him similar praise. Also, I am not talking about the past few seasons. I'm talking about only this season.

I mean, I suppose you're entitled to an opinion. I certainly won't agree with it, because I think Reed is still the best eraser in the NFL, but I suppose you're entitled to it.

Don't mistake my argument here as a complete dismissal of the Giants D, either. I've often lauded Justin Tuck as one of the best and most versatile defensive linemen in the league, and I defended JPP several times this year as one of the best young pass rushers in the league. In fact, I think you've probably got the best overall defensive line in the league. Problem being, once you move past the front 4, I'd be hard pressed to find another player I think could supplant someone on Baltimore. It actually pains me to see who you're starting at LB, although I suppose you could do worse then Boley.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:38 AM
I'm really not debating Giants D vs. Ravens D. As I said the Ravens are better. Although we're probably playing better at this moment. I'm more debating that Reed is a shell of himself and quite overrated at this point. He really only brings one skill to the table and it's not nearly as good as it used to be. Great he'll take away the deep ball. The Patriots dont throw the ball deep anyway. And wham Ed Reed has just been basically taken out of the game.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:40 AM
I mean, I suppose you're entitled to an opinion. I certainly won't agree with it, because I think Reed is still the best eraser in the NFL, but I suppose you're entitled to it.

Don't mistake my argument here as a complete dismissal of the Giants D, either. I've often lauded Justin Tuck as one of the best and most versatile defensive linemen in the league, and I defended JPP several times this year as one of the best young pass rushers in the league. In fact, I think you've probably got the best overall defensive line in the league. Problem being, once you move past the front 4, I'd be hard pressed to find another player I think could supplant someone on Baltimore. It actually pains me to see who you're starting at LB, although I suppose you could do worse then Boley.

I do absolutely love Webb, but Webster would probably be your #1 CB. At least 1a and 1b. But besides that and our disagreement on Reed, I agree about the back 7.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:40 AM
And yes, I am guilty of inciting most of it.

Lol as long as you admit it man :P

@ Jug: I will say your front 4 is pretty damn awesome, it's not even up for debate as APS said.

I guess we will have to just agree to disagree about Reed.

I will say that we may have a chance to find out, I have Ravens and Giants in the playoffs.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:41 AM
Lol as long as you admit it man :P

Gotta get the convo started somehow.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:42 AM
I do absolutely love Webb, but Webster would probably be your #1 CB. At least 1a and 1b. But besides that and our disagreement on Reed, I agree about the back 7.

That's true, I totally forgot about Webster for some reason. He was an absolute stud during that SB run of yours. Webb played out of his mind this year and really made huge strides, but you're right, Webster would be our #1 ahead of him.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Ahh I love this time of year. Not one Giants fan said Eli was better than Peyton by the way. No one.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 11:45 AM
I do absolutely love Webb, but Webster would probably be your #1 CB. At least 1a and 1b. But besides that and our disagreement on Reed, I agree about the back 7.

I would actually love Webster on our team at #1. I really want a CB to push Webb down and if J. Smith improves we could put Webb at Nick where he is a beast, both in coverage and blitzing.

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 11:47 AM
I wish I kept up with this thread. When you click on it and it's on page ten, there's no telling where the Convo has gone lol

It's tough for me to pick, do I want a rematch or do I want to hear about the "Super Harbowl" for two weeks.

Just because I'm thinking about these two scenarios. It'll be the 49ers vs Patriots.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:51 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/18/bill-belichick-has-a-man-crush-on-ed-reed/

Belichick seems to think highly of Reed at least.

“Can’t say I’ve [coached] against anyone better in the secondary than Ed Reed,” Belichick said.

Jughead10
01-18-2012, 11:53 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/18/bill-belichick-has-a-man-crush-on-ed-reed/

Belichick seems to think highly of Reed at least.

As a career of course. Seems like they were raving over game tape from 2009. But this is also in the article "While this hasn’t been Reed’s best season, he’s coming off a terrific performance against the Texans."

Terrific performance with a lot of help from a 5th string rookie QB.

Nalej
01-18-2012, 12:04 PM
That's nothing new... BB has always had a hard on for Ed Reed.

Complex
01-18-2012, 12:05 PM
Reed is better than Rolle wait for it...........






















and its not even close.

Giantsfan1080
01-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Blah Eli is limited at practice today because he's sick. Stomach bug something or other. I hope this doesn't go through the whole locker room.

bigbluedefense
01-18-2012, 01:00 PM
I'm not gonna say Rolle is as good as Reed, even today when Reed has taken a step back bc Reed is one of my favorite players of all time.

But Rolle is pretty underrated on this board. I think the stigma of him failing as a CB and transitioning to FS has rubbed a lot of ppl the wrong way.

He's been a great FS for us. He can even play SS, he's a great blitzer, one of our best tacklers, can play in the box, can play single high, can play nickel CB, he's done it all for us and has done it all at a very high level.

Rolle was worth every penny we gave him. I dislike his mouth, but the dude is a player.

Raiderz4Life
01-18-2012, 01:28 PM
I love this thread....the blazing hostility and the blatantly blind homerism is so entertaining haha

Good job BB