PDA

View Full Version : Top of the 2009 Draft...Looking Ugly


BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 08:57 AM
Word out of St. Louis is that, unless he takes a massive pay cut, Jason Smith will be released.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/18/jason-smith-faces-the-chopping-block-in-st-louis/

So, let's take a quick look at the top of that draft class shall we?

1 - Lions - Matt Stafford - Appears to working out

2 - Rams - Jason Smith - Could be cut, playing awful

3 - Chiefs - Tyson Jackson - Adequate starter? Maybe? Two career sacks.

4 - Seahawks - Aaron Curry - Already traded for peanuts

5 - Jets - Mark Sanchez - Good team success, but word is they may look for competition for him. Not a good sign.

6 - Bengals - Andre Smith - Weight/conditioning/injury issues, this year was his best year so far but that isn't saying a lot

7 - Raiders - DHB - This year was also his best so far, and also isn't saying a lot.

8 - Jags - Eugene Monroe - Lots of starts but not the stud you hope for this high in the draft.

While it's not 2005 ugly, there's only one sure-fire good player in there. A couple of adequate starters, two guys who might be turning it around and...uglyness abound.

It's a far cry from this past draft where the entire top 7 are either already studs or are studs in the making.

To me, Curry was the biggest surprise. I can't believe he was bad enough to be traded for some used footballs.

Smith being rumored to be cut isn't that surprising...his play has been awful. He isn't even getting it done after being moved to RT.

Jackson was overdrafted to begin with, and while I realize his primary job as a 3-4 DE isn't to get sacks, only having 2 in 3 years as a top 3 pick still isn't good. It's a case where, while he may not be a bad player, he isn't playing like a top 3 pick should.

It definitely looks like a below average draft crop for that high up.

Sloopy
01-18-2012, 09:23 AM
This might also be attributed to the # of reaches made and the fact that you should really never draft a 4-3 OLB that high... well rarely (Von Miller) but Curry wasn't the pass rush type.

Splat
01-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Tyson Jackson "could" end up being a solid starter he flashes at times, but will never ever live up to that pick.

Would be nice to have BJ Raji instead...

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 09:49 AM
Tyson Jackson "could" end up being a solid starter he flashes at times, but will never ever live up to that pick.

Would be nice to have BJ Raji instead...

At least it's not like the next 5 guys were complete studs. But if you're going to draft a 3-4 end that high, the guy better be the next Richard Seymour. Or at least Aaron Smith.

Jackson isn't even in the ballpark with those guys.

DraftSavant
01-18-2012, 10:34 AM
I still don't know how Jason Smith's stock ******* skyrocketed so high leading up to the draft.

That is a laughably average top 10.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 10:37 AM
I still don't know how Jason Smith's stock ******* skyrocketed so high leading up to the draft.

That is a laughably average top 10.

He was athletic! ATHLETIC!! Look at how his feet move! Oh and hand use!!

Who cares that he played in a conference where defense is outlawed and looks like a TE when handling pass rushers of even average strength.

ATHLETIC!

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 10:52 AM
I still don't know how Jason Smith's stock ******* skyrocketed so high leading up to the draft.

That is a laughably average top 10.

I had Mike Oher as my #1 OT throughout the entire season. Hooray for being right (Kind of...). I was ecstatic when the Ravens got him.

Smith's stock jumped because people weren't sure if Oher and Smith could play LT, so naturally the value of the hyperathletic Smith, who most definitely had the feet to play the position, increased tremendously. Unfortunately for the Rams, football isn't played in practice shorts and Smith just doesn't have the strength and tenacity to succeed in the NFL. Plus, he was supplanted by Roger Saffold after missing most of his rookie season with injury, and I think people underestimate the impact switching from LT to RT can have on some players, especially if they only have experience at the former.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:01 AM
I had Mike Oher as my #1 OT throughout the entire season. Hooray for being right (Kind of...). I was ecstatic when the Ravens got him.

Smith's stock jumped because people weren't sure if Oher and Smith could play LT, so naturally the value of the hyperathletic Smith, who most definitely had the feet to play the position, increased tremendously. Unfortunately for the Rams, football isn't played in practice shorts and Smith just doesn't have the strength and tenacity to succeed in the NFL. Plus, he was supplanted by Roger Saffold after missing most of his rookie season with injury, and I think people underestimate the impact switching from LT to RT can have on some players, especially if they only have experience at the former.

That's pretty much a less sarcastic explanation of it.

Athleticism and "potential" win at the top of the draft. Smith definitely had the athleticism to be the type of LT who could handle any pass rusher one on one most games.

Unfortunately, he didn't have any of the requisite secondary skills for that position, and he simply wasn't strong enough to handle playing RT.

In m most offensive schemes, the positions require different skillsets.

DraftSavant
01-18-2012, 11:09 AM
My thinking at the time re: Smith was: you're essentially getting a very poor man's version of D'Brickashaw Ferguson - who hasn't exactly torn it up or lived up to his draft stock, and has had a ton of trouble playing well down the stretch of a season because he can't keep his weight and strength.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:12 AM
My thinking at the time re: Smith was: you're essentially getting a very poor man's version of D'Brickashaw Ferguson - who hasn't exactly torn it up or lived up to his draft stock, and has had a ton of trouble playing well down the stretch of a season because he can't keep his weight and strength.

The rumors with 'Brick are that by late season, he can get down into the 270s.

I know that he definitely doesn't look like the 310 he's listed at.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:12 AM
My thinking at the time re: Smith was: you're essentially getting a very poor man's version of D'Brickashaw Ferguson - who hasn't exactly torn it up or lived up to his draft stock, and has had a ton of trouble playing well down the stretch of a season because he can't keep his weight and strength.

I understand the pick on some level. There are some positions in the NFL where you can get by purely on athleticism and with very little technique. WR, DE, CB to an extent (I'm looking at you, Antonio Cromartie...sigh) are all positions where we've seen people succeed despite little technical skill or polish. Hell, we just saw Tebow do it all season at QB, but I'd like to think that's the exception rather then the rule.

Unfortunately for the Rams, LT, and OL by extension, is a position where technique will generally trump talent. As athletic as Smith is, he was very raw as a prospect and his technique and game mentality never progressed to where his skillset should have led him.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:18 AM
I understand the pick on some level. There are some positions in the NFL where you can get by purely on athleticism and with very little technique. WR, DE, CB to an extent (I'm looking at you, Antonio Cromartie...sigh) are all positions where we've seen people succeed despite little technical skill or polish. Hell, we just saw Tebow do it all season at QB, but I'd like to think that's the exception rather then the rule.

Unfortunately for the Rams, LT, and OL by extension, is a position where technique will generally trump talent. As athletic as Smith is, he was very raw as a prospect and his technique and game mentality never progressed to where his skillset should have led him.

Case in point: I think that Duane Brown may be the best overall LT in football right now. He was drafted as a smallish athlete with good potential, but now...god damn. Pass blocking and run blocking, he straight up destroys people. Excellent technician at the position.

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:22 AM
Case in point: I think that Duane Brown may be the best overall LT in football right now. He was drafted as a smallish athlete with good potential, but now...god damn. Pass blocking and run blocking, he straight up destroys people. Excellent technician at the position.

Talk about a player who has turned his career around. How ridiculous was the Duane Brown pick at the time? People thought he was drafted a round too high, and look at him now. He has certainly worked his way into the discussion for the best LT in football. That Houston offensive line in general is just animalistic. I think Arian Foster has brought a bit of anger to that Houston offense, and it's paying huge dividends not just in his play, but in that of his offensive line as well. They played extremely well against us last week, and that's not something easily done. The Ravens have, IMO, one of the best two front 7's in the NFL (Along with San Fran, obviously).

jackalope
01-18-2012, 11:23 AM
Tyson Jackson "could" end up being a solid starter he flashes at times, but will never ever live up to that pick.

Would be nice to have BJ Raji instead...

I was thrilled when reports surfaced that the Chiefs would draft Jackson. Meant that the Packers wouldn't get him at 9 (which I thought would have still been a reach) and Raji or Orakpo were more likely to be there.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:25 AM
Talk about a player who has turned his career around. How ridiculous was the Duane Brown pick at the time? People thought he was drafted a round too high, and look at him now. He has certainly worked his way into the discussion for the best LT in football. That Houston offensive line in general is just animalistic. I think Arian Foster has brought a bit of anger to that Houston offense, and it's paying huge dividends not just in his play, but in that of his offensive line as well. They played extremely well against us last week, and that's not something easily done. The Ravens have, IMO, one of the best two front 7's in the NFL (Along with San Fran, obviously).


They allowed TJ Yates to be touched twice. Not sacked twice. But TOUCHED twice. Protecting a rookie QB (who are usually guilty of holding onto the ball, staring down receivers, not sliding well in the pocket, etc) like that is just absurd.

And Foster is a young Clinton Portis. That one-cut-and-run style fits him perfectly. He plants and then I swear teleports the first 5 yards of his run. His burst is insane and he's all the more dangerous behind that line.

If they play like that with a healthy Matt Schaub next year, I **** you not, they'll probably be my Superbowl favorites.

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 11:27 AM
Profootballtalk.com reports that Rams RT Jason Smith "will be landing on waivers" if he doesn't agree to a dramatic salary reduction for 2012.
A league source tells PFT that Smith has received an "ultimatum" from the Rams. His base salary is a whopping $10 million, and only $1 million of it is guaranteed. Since being the No. 2 overall pick in the 2009 draft, Smith has started only 26 of a possible 48 games. When healthy, Smith has been terrifically poor in pass protection and added very little as a run blocker. Jan. 18 - 11:40 am et

Ouch. Go Rams.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:28 AM
Ouch. Go Rams.

Trade him in the forum mock while you can. I'll give you a conditional 7th!

A Perfect Score
01-18-2012, 11:32 AM
They allowed TJ Yates to be touched twice. Not sacked twice. But TOUCHED twice. Protecting a rookie QB (who are usually guilty of holding onto the ball, staring down receivers, not sliding well in the pocket, etc) like that is just absurd.

And Foster is a young Clinton Portis. That one-cut-and-run style fits him perfectly. He plants and then I swear teleports the first 5 yards of his run. His burst is insane and he's all the more dangerous behind that line.

If they play like that with a healthy Matt Schaub next year, I **** you not, they'll probably be my Superbowl favorites.

Coming into the year, I was absolutely certain that Arian Foster was going to be a ZBS flavour of the week and Ben Tate would have 50% of the carries by midseason. Holy hell was I ever wrong. I'll gladly eat crow if I was wrong about a player, and Arian Foster is one guy I was most definitely wrong about. He runs as hard as anyone in the NFL right now, and that includes AP and MJD, the guys I'd consider the #1 and #2 RBs in the NFL, respectively. Foster would battle Ray Rice for the #3 spot though, most definitely.

Want to hear something crazy though? Ben Tate rushed for 942 yards on 175 carries this year. As a backup.

Complex
01-18-2012, 11:54 AM
Jason Smith sucks really? Rams fans were telling me that he was someone you could build around along with their 3rd and 4th WR's.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 11:55 AM
Jason Smith sucks really? Rams fans were telling me that he was someone you could build around along with their 3rd and 4th WR's.

Nothing in that sentence will change under Jeff Fisher, will it?

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 11:56 AM
Jason Smith sucks really? Rams fans were telling me that he was someone you could build around along with their 3rd and 4th WR's.

He doesn't suck. He's just always injured.

Complex
01-18-2012, 12:00 PM
Nothing in that sentence will change under Jeff Fisher, will it?

IDK we always had a pretty good O-line with Jeff Fisher except the last 2 years our run blocking sucked but pass blocking was good. But that was probably do to Mike Munchak coaching. We see I guess.

keylime_5
01-18-2012, 12:00 PM
There was so much talent found in the from pick 13 - 32 in 2009. What a great year to trade down ;)

Brian Orakpo
Brian Cushing
Malcolm Jenkins
Josh Freeman
Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Pettigrew
Alex Mack
Percy Harvin
Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Clay Matthews
Eric Wood
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
Ziggy Hood
Beanie Wells

Complex
01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
He doesn't suck. He's just always injured.

Why did he get benched twice this season? he only played like 8 games this season and got benched twice.I guess he got benched for being awesome.

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
There was so much talent found in the from pick 13 - 32 in 2009. What a great year to trade down ;)

Brian Orakpo
Brian Cushing
Malcolm Jenkins
Josh Freeman
Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Pettigrew
Alex Mack
Percy Harvin
Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Clay Matthews
Eric Wood
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
Ziggy Hood
Beanie Wells

Damnit, you piss me off.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
There was so much talent found in the from pick 13 - 32 in 2009. What a great year to trade down ;)


Or trade for Jay Cutler, as the case may be...

That first year with all the INTs sucked, but considering the protection he gets, his receivers, and his coordinators (Joe Montana would struggle to look good with Ron Turner and Mike Martz,) the success he has had has been nothing short of astonishing

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 12:12 PM
Why did he get benched twice this season? he only played like 8 games this season and got benched twice.I guess he got benched for being awesome.

He was benched because Spags has a man crush on Adam Goldberg, and Jason Smith suffers from Alex Barron Syndrome. Sometimes he needs an ass kicking.

Doesn't help that the Rams Offensive Line coach can't coach up anyone. Just look at Rodger Saffold, man has all the tools to be a franchise Left Tackle, but everyone talks about him moving to Right Tackle, Jason Smith moving to Guard and the Rams selecting Matt Kalil. Like Moving from Left Tackle to Right Tackle is some easy transition. And Smith to Guard is just Laughable, he has two concussions in two years, imagine him inside against 300+ pound Tackles, his head might fall off.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 12:13 PM
He was benched because Spags has a man crush on Adam Goldberg, and Jason Smith suffers from Alex Barron Syndrome. Sometimes he needs an ass kicking.

Doesn't help that the Rams Offensive Line coach can't coach up anyone. Just look at Rodger Saffold, man has all the tools to be a franchise Left Tackle, but everyone talks about him moving to Right Tackle, Jason Smith moving to Guard and the Rams selecting Matt Kalil. Like Moving from Left Tackle to Right Tackle is some easy transition. And Smith to Guard is just Laughable, he has two concussions in two years, imagine him inside against 300+ pound Tackles, his head might fall off.

You absolutely disqualified any logical point you may have been trying to make about Smith not being terrible.

keylime_5
01-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Or trade for Jay Cutler, as the case may be...

That first year with all the INTs sucked, but considering the protection he gets, his receivers, and his coordinators (Joe Montana would struggle to look good with Ron Turner and Mike Martz,) the success he has had has been nothing short of astonishing

any year you can trade picks to Josh McDaniels for a player is a good day.

holt_bruce81
01-18-2012, 12:19 PM
You absolutely disqualified any logical point you may have been trying to make about Smith not being terrible.


Point I was trying to make, I would like to see how these guys do with a real coaching staff. Not a Kermit the Frog "oh nice try buddy, you can do it!" coaching staff.

scottyboy
01-18-2012, 12:23 PM
the bottom of that 1st round is just so much better than the top, jeebus.

and that 2nd round isn't exactly filled with studs either...

however, 5 rutgers players being drafted make it worthwhile

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 12:28 PM
Point I was trying to make, I would like to see how these guys do with a real coaching staff. Not a Kermit the Frog "oh nice try buddy, you can do it!" coaching staff.

I don't know if you consider the Dallas coaching staff any better (doubtful,) but Barron was also quite terrible there.

If a guy fails once, it may be because of coaching. Twice...he's probably a lousy player.

DraftSavant
01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
Coming into the year, I was absolutely certain that Arian Foster was going to be a ZBS flavour of the week and Ben Tate would have 50% of the carries by midseason. Holy hell was I ever wrong. I'll gladly eat crow if I was wrong about a player, and Arian Foster is one guy I was most definitely wrong about. He runs as hard as anyone in the NFL right now, and that includes AP and MJD, the guys I'd consider the #1 and #2 RBs in the NFL, respectively. Foster would battle Ray Rice for the #3 spot though, most definitely.

Want to hear something crazy though? Ben Tate rushed for 942 yards on 175 carries this year. As a backup.

The first time I saw Ben Tate play at Auburn, I knew he was destined to go to a ZBS team.

RaiderNation
01-18-2012, 02:28 PM
DHB started to look very solid down the line for the Raiders, and I would take him over Crabtree anyday of the week. Also Aaron Curry looked much better with the Raiders, and I think if we move to the 3-4 this off season he could really excell as a ILB/OLB role on our team.

WMD
01-18-2012, 02:33 PM
I'm just glad the Lions took (Jason Smith/Aaron Curry) #1 overall. He has finally given this franchise some stability at (LT/LB). He is one of the main reasons the Lions made the playoffs for the first time since 1999, and actually have a bright future.

Oh wait.. we passed on those two bums. GO STAFFORDDDDDDD!

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2011/11/0ffab10348b5420a37a997f13d56f2df.jpg

MetSox17
01-18-2012, 04:26 PM
I don't know if you consider the Dallas coaching staff any better (doubtful,) but Barron was also quite terrible there.

If a guy fails once, it may be because of coaching. Twice...he's probably a lousy player.

Alex Barron was something awful and he single handedly cost us the Redskins game a few years ago. When your RT can cost you a game, you know he's bad.

DraftSavant
01-18-2012, 04:32 PM
I'm just glad the Lions took (Jason Smith/Aaron Curry) #1 overall. He has finally given this franchise some stability at (LT/LB). He is one of the main reasons the Lions made the playoffs for the first time since 1999, and actually have a bright future.

Oh wait.. we passed on those two bums. GO STAFFORDDDDDDD!

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2011/11/0ffab10348b5420a37a997f13d56f2df.jpg

Admire the broswag. Matt Stafford and his round face don't give a ****.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 04:35 PM
As long as none of them bump his shoulder, he should be ok.

Basileus777
01-18-2012, 04:51 PM
I wanted Raji, and was vexed when took Tyson Jackson. At least we didn't draft Sanchez though.

BeerBaron
01-18-2012, 06:19 PM
I wanted Raji, and was vexed when took Tyson Jackson. At least we didn't draft Sanchez though.

I don't think you'd be THAT much worse off if you did though. I can't see Cassel leading you anywhere that Sanchez couldn't.

MetSox17
01-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Matt Cassel is the president of the painfully average quarterbacks club.

Basileus777
01-18-2012, 06:33 PM
I don't think you'd be THAT much worse off if you did though. I can't see Cassel leading you anywhere that Sanchez couldn't.

I'll agree with that. But I'd rather have Orton over Sanchez, and he's just a mediocre QB we picked off of the waiver wire, not the 5th pick in the draft. Sanchez's draft status makes him hard to get rid of too.

K Train
01-18-2012, 10:25 PM
Case in point: I think that Duane Brown may be the best overall LT in football right now. He was drafted as a smallish athlete with good potential, but now...god damn. Pass blocking and run blocking, he straight up destroys people. Excellent technician at the position.

he was a huge reach, he was a rotational player at LT because he couldnt play a whole game, then he was a less then marginally servicable starterm and now hes a monster....just awesome to see a player be so bad and turn into being so good

JRTPlaya21
01-18-2012, 10:29 PM
the bottom of that 1st round is just so much better than the top, jeebus.

and that 2nd round isn't exactly filled with studs either...

however, 5 rutgers players being drafted make it worthwhile

And that's why scottyboy is one of my favorite posters. I'll be that way if Bama can get 4 or 5 early this year.

DraftSavant
01-18-2012, 10:34 PM
And that's why scottyboy is one of my favorite posters. I'll be that way if Bama can get 4 or 5 early this year.

Tiquan's hightop fade>>>>>

Brodeur
01-18-2012, 10:41 PM
As long as none of them bump his shoulder, he should be ok.

He got reamed multiple times this year and missed two snaps all year (and was relieved by Shaun Hill in a blowout twice, but that doesn't really count). So, I don't really think that's valid anymore. Stafford is a top 7 QB and was a great, great pick.

vidae
01-18-2012, 10:51 PM
Hah, suck it Rams! So glad we got Tyson Jackson!

brb slitting own wrists :(

TonyGfortheTD
01-19-2012, 01:46 AM
I still don't know how Jason Smith's stock ******* skyrocketed so high leading up to the draft.

That is a laughably average top 10.

Mike Mayock put in his game tape and started verbally blowing him, even though it was just merely average.

WCH
01-19-2012, 04:57 AM
Athleticism and "potential" win at the top of the draft. Smith definitely had the athleticism to be the type of LT who could handle any pass rusher one on one most games.


There also seems to be an element of randomness to who's stock skyrockets. With the 2009 draft as an example, I still don't see how Aaron Maybin was the 11th overall pick while Connor Barwin went in the 40s. They had almost identical college production (both were one-year wonders, also) and if anything Barwin was more athletic and put up his sack numbers after a move to DE from TE. But for some reason, people chose to ride Aaron Maybin's nuts.

I think that the 20-30 range would have been more appropriate for both players.

General Zod
01-19-2012, 05:07 AM
I still to this day cant believe how Jason Smith turned out. I might not been as high on him as some, but I at least thought he could be a serviceable starter somewhere on the O line.

Wodwo
01-19-2012, 07:58 AM
DHB started to look very solid down the line for the Raiders, and I would take him over Crabtree anyday of the week.

Both players actually started to look very solid in the second half of the season. I'm happy for DHB because it can't be fun to be viewed as a serious reach. Crabtree wasn't 100% healthy from his foot (again) until midway through the season.

Just for fun, here's the last eight games of the 2011 season for each 2009 1st round WR that played all those games (No Britt or Maclin).



DHB

REC: 37 Yards: 541 AVG: 14.6 TD: 3

Crabtree

REC: 42 Yards: 560 AVG: 13.3 TD: 3

Nicks

REC: 38 Yards: 617 AVG: 16.2 TD: 4

Harvin

REC: 56 Yards: 633 AVG: 11.3 TD: 6



The first three had some problems with drops during the season. Crabtree had an absolutely awful game against the Saints in the divisional round. Nicks is the complete opposite, absolutely beasting it up in the playoffs. Crabtree will really need to step up his game against the Giants this weekend.

In any case, I say the jury is still out on DHB and Crabtree. There's no denying that they aren't the best WRs from that draft class, though.

BeerBaron
01-19-2012, 08:22 AM
Crabs needs a full training camp. Due to injuries and his rookie hold out, I don't think he's had a full NFL training camp yet.

As for DHB, the drops kill me. I don't care how fast, big, awesome you are otherwise...none of it matters if you can't actually catch the damn ball. That's why guys like him and Ted Ginn and Braylon bother me so much. I HATE receivers who drop a lot of passes.

And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?

Wodwo
01-19-2012, 08:48 AM
Crabs needs a full training camp. Due to injuries and his rookie hold out, I don't think he's had a full NFL training camp yet.

As for DHB, the drops kill me. I don't care how fast, big, awesome you are otherwise...none of it matters if you can't actually catch the damn ball. That's why guys like him and Ted Ginn and Braylon bother me so much. I HATE receivers who drop a lot of passes.

And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?

Yeah, Crabtree hasn't had a single offseason working with the team. I don't know if that's good enough to excuse his drops, though. He had 7 this season on one less target than DHB, who dropped 6. At least Crabtree isn't trying to play Volley Ball anymore with the tipped interceptions he had last season.

Obviously I'm with you on hating it when WRs drop a high % of passes. The 49ers were just terrible this season. Even Frank Gore joined in with 6 drops... in his 32 whole targets. WTF? Gore has had more receptions every season since 2006 than he had targets this season and he drops 6? SMH.

BeerBaron
01-19-2012, 08:50 AM
I recall reading that, when Larry Fitzgerald was informed that he only had one dropped pass this season in 153 target, he got upset because "that's one too many."

Yeah, here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/larry-fitzgerald-upset-about-one-drop-in-153-passes-thrown-his-way/

THAT is how I want my WR to respond.

Wodwo
01-19-2012, 09:02 AM
I recall reading that, when Larry Fitzgerald was informed that he only had one dropped pass this season in 153 target, he got upset because "that's one too many."

Yeah, here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/larry-fitzgerald-upset-about-one-drop-in-153-passes-thrown-his-way/

THAT is how I want my WR to respond.

Hell yes. Master your art, *************.

Fitzgerald has the best hands in the league. Not just because he can catch every good pass, but the combination of body control, ball tracking adjustments, freakish hand-eye coordination, and the uncanny ability to react to passes tipped by the DB. He is just absolutely amazing. He works his ass off to be that way, too. I love that guy, I don't care that he plays for a division rival, one of the best players in the NFL. Period.

Sorry for the tangent/rant, guys.

BeerBaron
01-19-2012, 09:05 AM
It just wouldn't be a thread without the occasional tangent...

I honestly believe that if Fitzgerald had/has/gets consistently good QB play for his entire career and avoids major injuries, he could have threatened some of Rice's records.

Extremely hard worker with even better natural abilities. A few too many years with guys who aren't Kurt Warner probably means he'll never get into the record territory, but he should finish as a top 5 all time WR in just about every category.

Wodwo
01-19-2012, 09:56 AM
It just wouldn't be a thread without the occasional tangent...

I honestly believe that if Fitzgerald had/has/gets consistently good QB play for his entire career and avoids major injuries, he could have threatened some of Rice's records.

Extremely hard worker with even better natural abilities. A few too many years with guys who aren't Kurt Warner probably means he'll never get into the record territory, but he should finish as a top 5 all time WR in just about every category.

I completely agree and Jerry Rice is my favorite player of all time. Of course, this is a different era of football (especially in the passing game), but Fitzgerald just deserves recognition for being the amazing player that he is anyway. It's so rare to find an athlete in any sport that has that combination of raw talent and work ethic. Plus he seems like a really good kid.

I wish he'd opted to leave the Cardinals. Le sigh.

Brodeur
01-19-2012, 10:45 AM
Fitzgerald is no Calvin.

Thecollegedropout
01-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Sanchez isn't as bad as the likes of Tyson Jackson cmon....I know he is a villain on the boards but lets see the guy with a capable OC(Hopefully Sparano is that...still reservations) and a guy who is at the very least ok at RT and who won't get Sanchez killed every few seconds.

nepg
01-19-2012, 02:27 PM
At least it's not like the next 5 guys were complete studs. But if you're going to draft a 3-4 end that high, the guy better be the next Richard Seymour. Or at least Aaron Smith.

Jackson isn't even in the ballpark with those guys.
Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...

Bengals78
01-19-2012, 02:36 PM
Andre Smith had a good year. Especially when in the first 4 games he had Clint Boling at RG (no where near ready) and Mike McGlynn late in the year.
If he stays healthy, I still think he can be a top RT.

BeerBaron
01-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Sanchez isn't as bad as the likes of Tyson Jackson cmon....I know he is a villain on the boards but lets see the guy with a capable OC(Hopefully Sparano is that...still reservations) and a guy who is at the very least ok at RT and who won't get Sanchez killed every few seconds.

You're required to have more faith as a fan. I don't share your optimism. Playcalling never helped him, but you can separate Sanchez' performance out a little bit and he doesn't look like an NFL franchise QB.

We'll see.

Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...

You are a non-Chiefs fan Chiefs homer. Tyson Jackson was not work the #3 pick in the draft. Actual Chiefs fans will tell you this.

Just as they tell you that Matt Cassel is not an NFL franchise QB or someone who ever could be.

Iamcanadian
01-19-2012, 03:43 PM
It was considered a weak draft for elite players at the time so it should come as no surprise that few have reached star status. Teams couldn't trade down because NFL GM's realized that later in round 1, they would find talent just as good if not better than what they could get in the 1st 10 picks.

fear the elf
01-19-2012, 03:45 PM
The Browns traded down a couple of times...

Iamcanadian
01-19-2012, 03:54 PM
The Browns traded down a couple of times...

That is because they had a team that wanted a QB badly and Sanchez was there but what good has it done the Browns who also needed a QB.
You must really like 4-12 records.

fear the elf
01-19-2012, 04:05 PM
That is because they had a team that wanted a QB badly and Sanchez was there but what good has it done the Browns who also needed a QB.
You must really like 4-12 records.

What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)

Rosebud
01-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...

I still think Jason Smith had the second most raw talent out of that top 4 after Andre Smith. He just also needed the most work, but I still think he can and Saffold can get back to the level of play they were at last year and build on it.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-19-2012, 04:54 PM
And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?

Along with leading the NFL this year. Quite the career arch for Roddy.

05-06: Painfully terrible
07: Break out, good WR.
08-09: Ok, he's really good. Legit top 10
10: Top 3 WR?
11: What the ****?



Still a good WR, but it's amazing how much he regressed.

keylime_5
01-19-2012, 04:57 PM
What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)

yeah. At least we got a good center out of it. Otherwise we'd have no QB and no center. We could've had some really great other players after that trade to if Mangini weren't drafting: Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Clay Matthews, even Josh Freeman. Not to mention LeSean McCoy taken a pick after David Veikune in round two.

WCH
01-19-2012, 05:51 PM
Along with leading the NFL this year. Quite the career arch for Roddy.

05-06: Painfully terrible
07: Break out, good WR.
08-09: Ok, he's really good. Legit top 10
10: Top 3 WR?
11: What the ****?



Still a good WR, but it's amazing how much he regressed.

Possibly an emerging vision problem?

BlindSite
01-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Ugh what an ugly draft in hindsight.

Captain Munnderlyn, Sherrod Martin and Robinson are the only highlights god was Everette brown a painful ******* pick.

Bengalsrocket
01-19-2012, 07:23 PM
It was considered a weak draft for elite players at the time so it should come as no surprise that few have reached star status. Teams couldn't trade down because NFL GM's realized that later in round 1, they would find talent just as good if not better than what they could get in the 1st 10 picks.

I seriously hate this mentality of the draft. If you have the first overall pick, you can literally take whoever you want. You could grab the 3rd ranked Punter if you think he'll give your organization the most wins.

Splat
01-19-2012, 08:00 PM
Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

He was solid at times but "pretty good" is a stretch. It's hard to watch him play knowing he is making 70 million...

I'm so glad those days of crazy rookie deals are over.

Thecollegedropout
01-19-2012, 08:47 PM
What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)
You guys got Brent Ratliff....oh and Abram Elam....and Kenyon Coleman. Not bad of a heist value wise.

DeathbyStat
01-20-2012, 03:02 PM
Called the Andre Smith and DHB busts, but was wrongly really behind Curry, but it was too high to take a line backer that is not a pass rusher

themaninblack
01-20-2012, 07:03 PM
Andre Smith had a good year. Especially when in the first 4 games he had Clint Boling at RG (no where near ready) and Mike McGlynn late in the year.
If he stays healthy, I still think he can be a top RT.

Absolutely agree. He can be a mauler in the run game and is solid in pass pro but still not great at it though I expect to see continued improvement. Best part about it is that we are going to be able to resign him for pretty cheap one would think.

themaninblack
01-20-2012, 07:04 PM
Called the Andre Smith and DHB busts, but was wrongly really behind Curry, but it was too high to take a line backer that is not a pass rusher

Wouldn't really call Andre a bust just yet. He's been very good when he's in the game especially this year.