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Matthew Jones
01-21-2012, 03:46 AM
Some of the notable prospects with character flags:

RB Dan Herron, Ohio St. - suspension (improper benefits)

RB LaMichael James, Oregon* - arrest (domestic violence)

WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma St.* - arrest (DUI)

WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma - arrest (stealing gasoline)

WR Michael Floyd, Notre Dame - arrests (alcohol/DUI)

WR Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina* - weight/work ethic

WR DeVier Posey, Ohio St. - suspension (improper benefits)

OT Mike Adams, Ohio St. - suspension (improper benefits)

DT Devon Still, Penn St. - motor/passion

DT Billy Winn, Boise St. - motor

DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina - motor/passion

DE Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma* - academics

LB Vontaze Burfict, Arizona St.* - anger management/maturity/weight

CB Jamell Fleming, Oklahoma - academics

CB Cliff Harris, Oregon* - arrests (marijuana/speeding)/dismissed from Oregon

CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama - arrests (marijuana)/dismissed from Florida

CB Trumaine Johnson, Montana - arrest

CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama* - arrest (marijuana)

FS Mark Barron, Alabama - arrest (obstruction)

GatorsBullsFan
01-21-2012, 08:18 AM
I know my jags are projected by most people to get Coples but I don't want him at all...I think his football knowledge is low, his nose for the ball is low, and he gets man handled too much

underscore
01-21-2012, 09:31 AM
Sorry, I don't understand why Devon Still is on this list.

Matthew Jones
01-21-2012, 09:41 AM
Sorry, I don't understand why Devon Still is on this list.

Still had a reputation for being lazy and taking lots of plays off prior to his senior season, in which he put everything together and made use of his considerable talents. NFL decision-makers will have to decide whether or not Still only produced because 2011 was a "contract year" similar to what Albert Haynesworth did in order to secure his big payday, or whether Still's senior campaign represents a newfound maturity.

Complex
01-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Forgot Janzen Jackson

keylime_5
01-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Herron and Posey got improper benefits, but I don't think you'll find any cleaner character kids in the entire draft, especially with Posey. AJ Green got improper benefits as well, he didn't have any character concerns any more than these guys. I guess it's a topic worth debate, but getting stuff in exchange for football equipment isn't as bad as it sounds. Terrelle Pryor was the ring leader in that scandal anyhow.

FUNBUNCHER
01-21-2012, 11:18 AM
The worst character red flag for an NFL prospect IMO is work ethic and motor.

The other issues are about par for too many players in the NFL entering the league IMO.

I think Burfict has a chemical imbalance and may need psychiatric mood stabilizers to be a successful pro.
He sounds bipolar.

shylo3716
01-21-2012, 11:23 AM
The worst character red flag for an NFL prospect IMO is work ethic and motor.

The other issues are about par for too many players in the NFL entering the league IMO.

I think Burfict has a chemical imbalance and may need psychiatric mood stabilizers to be a successful pro.
He sounds bipolar.

Please link me to your best Burfict interview

raynman
01-21-2012, 11:52 AM
I know my jags are projected by most people to get Coples but I don't want him at all...I think his football knowledge is low, his nose for the ball is low, and he gets man handled too muchyeah, he's got a bad motor and work ethic and he's a sucky lockerroom presence. the talent is there, but once teams start looking at him and talking to teammates and coaches and tarheel insiders coples is going to slide. he's not very well respected. even tarheel fans i know don't like him. he's got bust written all over.
Sorry, I don't understand why Devon Still is on this list.Still had a reputation for being lazy and taking lots of plays off prior to his senior season, in which he put everything together and made use of his considerable talents. NFL decision-makers will have to decide whether or not Still only produced because 2011 was a "contract year" similar to what Albert Haynesworth did in order to secure his big payday, or whether Still's senior campaign represents a newfound maturity.totally agreed. the thing that bothers me about still is that its just been this year that people have noticed his motor improving. what's so special about this year? it's a contract year.

his senior season just happens to be the season that he pulls his stuff together and improves his motor (even though i still see him as one who gets tired late in the game). to me that screams a player who will only really show up in a contract year.

not someone i want to take a risk on in the first round, esp. with a top 10 pick.

Brent
01-21-2012, 11:53 AM
I doubt most NFL people care about college kids taking improper benefits.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Herron and Posey got improper benefits, but I don't think you'll find any cleaner character kids in the entire draft, especially with Posey. AJ Green got improper benefits as well, he didn't have any character concerns any more than these guys. I guess it's a topic worth debate, but getting stuff in exchange for football equipment isn't as bad as it sounds. Terrelle Pryor was the ring leader in that scandal anyhow.

I agree, pro teams don't care about this kind of event, it might even be a plus in their eyes.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Cordy Glenn and Ketechi Osemele have weight problems which pro scouts and GM's take quite seriously because they know an overweight prospect is very likely to gain weight at the next level, showed little commitment in college to getting in shape and is unlikely to perform at a top level for 4 quarters at the pro football level.
I could see both pay the price on draft day.

DeepThreat
01-21-2012, 12:32 PM
I agree, pro teams don't care about this kind of event, it might even be a plus in their eyes.

How could it possibly be a plus? It may not be much of a negative, but it's definitely not a positive.

FUNBUNCHER
01-21-2012, 12:35 PM
Please link me to your best Burfict interview

By 'sounds like', I meant descriptions of his behavior on the field.

Babylon
01-21-2012, 12:45 PM
I think you're painting everyone with a broad brush here under the heading of character flags. My take is there is a lot that goes along with being a college student, especially a bigtime athlete at that. For me character issues would be repeat offenders, guys that throw their girlfriends down a flight of stairs, that type of stuff. Saying a guy doesnt have a high motor or that he was involved in some sort of rules violation isnt going to move me too much if i like what i see in workouts and interviews.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2012, 01:05 PM
How could it possibly be a plus? It may not be much of a negative, but it's definitely not a positive.

They showed initiative in trying to get paid for what they do for their colleges. GM's aren't stupid, they know a lot of college players get paid under the table so it is no big deal to them if a college player wants to get paid and goes out and secures some income. Remember, a lot of these kids come from dirt poor families that have nothing. Their families can give them nothing so it would hardly surprise a GM that they tried to make some money when their colleges are taking in millions in revenue and giving them peanuts.
I'd bet that a lot of GM's would give them a plus for their initiative.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 01:09 PM
Is Jeffery on this list because of "the picture"?

AntoinCD
01-21-2012, 01:16 PM
I think you're painting everyone with a broad brush here under the heading of character flags. My take is there is a lot that goes along with being a college student, especially a bigtime athlete at that. For me character issues would be repeat offenders, guys that throw their girlfriends down a flight of stairs, that type of stuff. Saying a guy doesnt have a high motor or that he was involved in some sort of rules violation isnt going to move me too much if i like what i see in workouts and interviews.

I agree in sorts, though if I'm a GM, head coach or decision maker and my scouting department tells me that this guy is absolutely dominant...for 5 or 6 plays a game and just coasts the rest of the way I am going to have a hard time convincing myself he should be drafted highly. How can I pay him millions of dollars and then all of a sudden expect him to become a hard worker? Work ethic is not something that changes very easily, let alone when they have received their gauranteed money.

shylo3716
01-21-2012, 01:25 PM
By 'sounds like', I meant descriptions of his behavior on the field.

I still believe folks are over analyzing him as a headcase.

How does he sound in the interviews he took part of?
How does he handle himself off the field?

Those are the 2 deciding factors for me. I could care less about his demeanor on the field. I want that "Fire & Desire" in my middle. Hell if we had him plugged in our middle this year, that would have made a difference from being 8-8 for the season.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Is Jeffery on this list because of "the picture"?

He's on this list because it is a fact that he is playing out of shape and if he won't get in shape in college, what are the odds he will get into top shape at the pro level where it is so much more important.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 01:48 PM
He's on this list because it is a fact that he is playing out of shape and if he won't get in shape in college, what are the odds he will get into top shape at the pro level where it is so much more important.

Fact? You have proof of this? Link? Anything other than a opinion that has no credibility?

Or again, is this just from a picture on the freaking internet?

Jeffery has always been big. He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now.

Would you like a credible link for that?

underscore
01-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Still had a reputation for being lazy and taking lots of plays off prior to his senior season, in which he put everything together and made use of his considerable talents. NFL decision-makers will have to decide whether or not Still only produced because 2011 was a "contract year" similar to what Albert Haynesworth did in order to secure his big payday, or whether Still's senior campaign represents a newfound maturity.

Yet Still still had a 2010 on par with what Jerel Worthy did this past season. Not bad for a guy taking plays off and being lazy.

Still's problem isn't a character "problem". It was simply growing up. He had a daughter. He finally realized that he had high NFL talent. He grew up. That's what college kids do. In fact, he was one of the trumpeting forces in keeping the team together through the Sandusky crap.

GaMeTiMe
01-21-2012, 01:54 PM
Not really sure what the point of it is, but this thread is definitely a wide net over any type of character concern, small or large, so I really wouldn't nitpick with who belongs and who doesn't.

Honestly none of these guys are serious cases except for maybe Harris, and I guess in that case Janoris Jenkins, but in his case I think it's more stupidity and hopefully he can convince teams, or at least one team since that's really all it takes, that it was a learning experience and he has been progressing as a person since starting at North Alabama...Floyd is close but we're basically talking top-10 vs. top-20 with him.

descendency
01-21-2012, 01:57 PM
Honestly none of these guys are serious cases

That really depends on what you mean by serious.

Alshon Jeffery will be questioned by many. The "fat" picture wreaks of the kind of lazy work ethic that Mike Williams (Seattle's WR) had. Teams will be wary of that.

Matthew Jones
01-21-2012, 02:09 PM
Fact? You have proof of this? Link? Anything other than a opinion that has no credibility?

Or again, is this just from a picture on the freaking internet?

Jeffery has always been big. He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now.

Would you like a credible link for that?

Why would you need a link to tell you someone is overweight when you can clearly see it with your own eyes? Most wide receivers don't have muffin tops. Speaking of opinions which have no credibility, try making more than four posts on the site before you start calling out long-time users.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 02:10 PM
I just find it funny that people see a little belly and assume he has a poor work ethic or is lazy.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2012, 02:11 PM
[QUOTE=WhiteBread;2834670]Fact? You have proof of this? Link? Anything other than a opinion that has no credibility?

Or again, is this just from a picture on the freaking internet?

Jeffery has always been big. He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now.

I'll take you opinion as stated above this, "He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now." What more is to be said?

CDCB14
01-21-2012, 02:16 PM
Guys like Burfict really won't be a problem, because all you have to do is put fines for personal fouls in his contract. He's a grown man who wants money just like everyone else. Put it in his contract that every deliberate personal foul or any type of out of control conduct is like a $50,000 fine and he'll be a scared straight little school boy real quick.

I don't get why people are acting like the personal fouls are the real problem. The real question is will he be able to develop as a player and realize his Ray Lewis type potential, because he basically just got by on athleticism and size at ASU.

Lil Quip
01-21-2012, 02:16 PM
I am surprised no one mentioned Crick. He was a well lauded prospect, but it seems like his health issues are a big red flag.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 02:17 PM
I'll take you opinion as stated above this, "He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now." What more is to be said?

That he's not lazy and has actually been working his tail off?

Lil Quip
01-21-2012, 02:26 PM
For Jeffrey, his only job right now is to make himself the best prospect possible.

Also, when in the NFL, his only job is to be a NFL receiver.

If he has a half a brain, I think he should spend some time with a nutritionist and a speed coach. I think he has plenty of time to lose the weight, keep the strength or get stronger. He can improve his speed just by shedding that excess weight.

He needs to look at a guy like Bryant as showing luck rather than he can get away it. He isn't the prospect Bryant was.

If he shows up at the combine fat and slow, I could see a big drop on draft day. Some team will take a flyer on him later, thinking they can do the things I stated above, however he should be doing that stuff already.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 02:27 PM
He said strength coach Craig Fitzgerald has given him a program he has been committed to, and he can see the difference on the field. Im faster and stronger, Jeffery said. It pays off for everybody. We are out here running and lifting weights all summer.

http://www.muscleprodigy.com/alshon-jeffery-growing-by-leaps-and-bounds-arcl-1815.html

GaMeTiMe
01-21-2012, 02:57 PM
I think for Jeffery, his do or die moment here will be Scott's bodily description of him from the combine.

FuzzyGopher
01-21-2012, 03:05 PM
I think for Jeffery, his do or die moment here will be Scott's bodily description of him from the combine.

Very long arms with poor definition and little muscle and large hands, midsection similar to Snooky.

DeepThreat
01-21-2012, 03:28 PM
They showed initiative in trying to get paid for what they do for their colleges. GM's aren't stupid, they know a lot of college players get paid under the table so it is no big deal to them if a college player wants to get paid and goes out and secures some income. Remember, a lot of these kids come from dirt poor families that have nothing. Their families can give them nothing so it would hardly surprise a GM that they tried to make some money when their colleges are taking in millions in revenue and giving them peanuts.
I'd bet that a lot of GM's would give them a plus for their initiative.

There is no initiative. It's not like these players are scheming on how to make money. They are being offered it and accepting it. There is no creativity or brilliance.

J-Mike88
01-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Jeffery has always been big. He's even on record saying he never worked out in high school and couldn't even bench 150 pounds. He's up to 250 or so now.

Would you like a credible link for that?
Sounds an awful lot like the former USC Mike Williams. That scared away a lot of teams, but the Lions bit.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Sounds an awful lot like the former USC Mike Williams. That scared away a lot of teams, but the Lions bit.

Mike Williams was what, 2 years removed from college football (he and Clarrett tryed to declare as Soph. and got revoked) and a football environment at all before he entered the NFL and played for the Lions?

His last season at USC was in 2003, his first season in Detroit was in 2005.

Bad example IMO.

keylime_5
01-21-2012, 04:48 PM
Mike is still always out of shape and still has a bad work ethic. He's had plenty of years in the NFL to improve it and he still hasn't. He had a little better year in 2010 playing with Hasselbeck for Pete Carroll, but still a total bust. If Jeffery isn't more proactive about staying in shape than he was at Carolina then he is destined for the same fate.

Menardo75
01-21-2012, 05:49 PM
I've seen every one of Billy Winn's games and I have never seen a problem with his motor.

keylime_5
01-21-2012, 05:56 PM
it seems like we've gotten away from "character" issues and are delving into any red flags of any sorts. Work ethic and health have nothing to do with character. Character red flags are about attitude, personality, and getting into trouble on and/or off the field.

descendency
01-21-2012, 06:05 PM
His last season at USC was in 2003, his first season in Detroit was in 2005.

Bad example IMO.

A player who really wants to be in the NFL won't accrue rust, 2 years removed or not.

I'd agree that it's not a perfect example, but fat with low motivation to be otherwise is a huge red flag. There are plenty of examples of players that were useless because of low desire and they almost universally bust.

raynman
01-21-2012, 06:15 PM
it seems like we've gotten away from "character" issues and are delving into any red flags of any sorts. Work ethic and health have nothing to do with character. Character red flags are about attitude, personality, and getting into trouble on and/or off the field.
i would consider bad work ethic and laziness to be a character issue. sure, it won't get you in jail, but it can be just as detrimental to a team.

keylime_5
01-21-2012, 06:40 PM
you don't have to have a great work ethic to have top notch character. they are separate issues in my opinion. They might often come hand-in-hand, but you can't assume a guy who doesn't work as hard as the best has character problems. Vernon Gholston - great guy, all smiles, never gets into trouble, great team mate - didn't put in the effort to be the best football player. That kind of thing happens. Not everyone is dedicated or driven to be the best. That's more of having a competitive nature than anything.

WhiteBread
01-21-2012, 06:43 PM
A player who really wants to be in the NFL won't accrue rust, 2 years removed or not. I'd agree that it's not a perfect example, but fat with low motivation to be otherwise is a huge red flag. There are plenty of examples of players that were useless because of low desire and they almost universally bust.Agreed on all accounts. Mike Williams was out of shape due to his long lay off out of football and not applying himself. He's a bonafide 1st round bust. Matt Millen was an idiot.

raynman
01-21-2012, 09:12 PM
you don't have to have a great work ethic to have top notch character. they are separate issues in my opinion. They might often come hand-in-hand, but you can't assume a guy who doesn't work as hard as the best has character problems. Vernon Gholston - great guy, all smiles, never gets into trouble, great team mate - didn't put in the effort to be the best football player. That kind of thing happens. Not everyone is dedicated or driven to be the best. That's more of having a competitive nature than anything.it's a character trait.

laziness is a character flaw. it's a red flag. and it can be a costly one.

it doesn't mean you're a bad guy. but it also doesn't take away from it being a negative character trait. it doesn't contribute to winning. it hurts team morale. it sets a bad example. it drags down a team. it makes that player a liability.

it's a red flag.

keylime_5
01-21-2012, 09:25 PM
i never said it wasn't a red flag. I just think there is a distinction between not having a great work ethic and what we call character concerns.

raynman
01-21-2012, 09:56 PM
when you are trying to build a team with players you can count on....ehhh...there's not much a a distinction. they will both be high maintenance players that usually aren't worth the bother.

actually i'd rather take someone who has gotten busted for pot possession and gets in trouble once in a while off field but busts his butt in practice and on the field than someone who is a good guy but lazy player that you have to work hard to keep motivated. neither are particularly good for the organization but you'll probably get more production from the bad seed than the lazy one.