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Giantsfan1080
01-22-2012, 10:41 PM
Giants vs. Patriots (6:29 P.M. NBC)

Discuss.

tjsunstein
01-22-2012, 10:52 PM
This is my nightmare. I hate the whole idea of this game.

bored of education
01-22-2012, 10:58 PM
I am not watching the game.

diabsoule
01-22-2012, 11:04 PM
This is my nightmare. I hate the whole idea of this game.

How do you think Saints fans feel? They beat the Giants by 25 in the regular season and would've hosted them again in the Dome if they would've beat the 49ers.

I'm still vomiting.

DanZilla
01-22-2012, 11:09 PM
Hopefully the Pats can come out with the W and get sweet revenge.

Brodeur
01-22-2012, 11:16 PM
This is my nightmare. I hate the whole idea of this game.

How do you think Saints fans feel? They beat the Giants by 25 in the regular season and would've hosted them again in the Dome if they would've beat the 49ers.

I'm still vomiting.

Being the last two Super Bowl winners probably helps you two. Just throwing that out there...

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:25 PM
Being the last two Super Bowl winners probably helps you two. Just throwing that out there...

LOL! Do those guys have any perspective? The last two Super Bowl winners and they got thrashed by better teams and they're whining.

I wish you two 12 years of mediocrity and bad luck.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:27 PM
The Patriots finally beat a team with a winning record and they needed a drop Lee Evans GW and a Billy Cundiff missed chip shot to do it.

They're only better at QB and TE match up wise with the Giants and the QB gap isn't that big anymore. This is going to be a shoot out in a dome but I'm giving the edge to the Giants.

Nicks-Cruz-Manningham are just so much better than anybody the Patriots have in the secondary. The Giants athletic DL will have the advantage on a fast track.

2 weeks worth of Myra Kraft memorial stories. OH YIPPIE!

Ness
01-22-2012, 11:28 PM
I'm guessing Giants take it.

Complex
01-22-2012, 11:28 PM
Kobe's commercials suck. All his sneakers suck minus one pair that I liked.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:29 PM
Peyton Manning looks like he's retiring. His younger brother has a chance to win his 2nd Super Bowl in the Stadium he built against his only equal during the past 10 years.

Yo btw did you guys know the Patriots and Giants played in a Super Bowl in 2007 before? Am I the first person to mention this?

scottyboy
01-22-2012, 11:29 PM
scotty=nervous

Jvig43
01-22-2012, 11:31 PM
Jvig = Nervous/Happy for a chance at revenge.

Complex
01-22-2012, 11:31 PM
2 weeks worth of Myra Kraft memorial stories. OH YIPPIE!

I am going to hate this. I will help ESPN with one story Myra made the FG go left. Robert Kraft or someone will say it was Myra that made Billy miss the FG ,then they will show the person face and he or she will start tearing up.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Jvig = Nervous/Happy for a chance at revenge.

No matter what happens that perfect season is not going to happen. LOL at Patriot fans trying to forget this fact.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2012, 11:35 PM
Rachel Nichols said we were 7-7 haha.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:35 PM
I am going to hate this. I will help ESPN with one story Myra made the FG go left. Robert Kraft or someone will go it was Myra that made Billy miss the FG ,then they will show the person face and he or she will start tearing up.

Oh my God. We get you love your wife Robert Kraft but stop trotting out her memory every chance you get.

LOL at Kraft looking up to the heavens when he was presented the Lamar Hunt trophy moments after he kissed Drew Bledsoe with a creepy Steven Tyler in the background.

2 weeks of Myra Kraft stories is already more annoying than Jerome Bettis comes home to Detroit stories.

Jvig43
01-22-2012, 11:37 PM
No matter what happens that perfect season is not going to happen. LOL at Patriot fans trying to forget this fact.

Haha Where did I ever try to say winning would erase that super bowl loss? Go back to the illiterate troll hole you crawled out of and stay there.

Brodeur
01-22-2012, 11:38 PM
Both teams are going for their fourth Super Bowl right? Hmmm, early prediction time:

Pats- 27
Giants- 31

MVP: Victor Cruz

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:38 PM
Where did I ever try to say winning would erase that super bowl loss? Go back to the illiterate troll hole you crawled out of and stay there.

A chance at revenge??? Jeez why you heffta be so mad?

Complex
01-22-2012, 11:39 PM
That BJ Raji commercial is still funny.

Jvig43
01-22-2012, 11:41 PM
A chance at revenge??? Jeez why you heffta be so mad?

"An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/revenge

Again where was I saying it would be erased? Why do you have to be so dumb?

Brent
01-22-2012, 11:42 PM
Let's do this, New England Trolls!

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:45 PM
"An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/revenge

Again where was I saying it would be erased? Why do you have to be so dumb?

You went to the dictionary to post the actual definition of revenge??? Damn you are worked up. Your favorite team just made the Super Bowl. Be happy.

Just remember that no matter what happens in 2 weeks you still lost in 2007. No matter how hard you try and forget it.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:46 PM
After this Super Bowl we should ban New York and Boston sports teams and their fans from participating in sports. The books are closed after Super Bowl 46.

Jvig43
01-22-2012, 11:47 PM
You went to the dictionary to post the actual definition of revenge??? Damn you are worked up. Your favorite team just made the Super Bowl. Be happy.

Just remember that no matter what happens in 2 weeks you still lost in 2007. No matter how hard you try and forget it.

Haha Well clearly you still need the definition as you keep implying that it somehow means that it will erase our 2007 loss to the Giants, yet I don't see how that would be possible because if I tried to forget it, I wouldn't be using the word "revenge" to describe this game ( We wouldn't have anything to take revenge for - just to spell it out for you again). You need to pick your trolling game up there buddy haha.

Leon Sandcastle
01-22-2012, 11:49 PM
Haha Well clearly you still need the definition as you keep implying that it somehow means that it will erase our 2007 loss to the Giants, yet I don't see how that would be possible because if I tried to forget it I wouldn't be using the word "revenge" to describe this game. You need to pick your trolling game up there buddy haha.

I'm not even trolling dog. Seriously. I'm just a sad Bills fan. P.S. I hate you and your team.

TEAM ELISHA NELSON MANNING!

49erNation85
01-23-2012, 01:08 AM
For get this **** of a rematch pos of crap game. The half time show will be crap any how just like last year meh. Can we move onto April already for the draft .

PoopSandwich
01-23-2012, 01:12 AM
Gonna be a great ******* game for sure

sbh15
01-23-2012, 01:37 AM
How do you think Saints fans feel? They beat the Giants by 25 in the regular season and would've hosted them again in the Dome if they would've beat the 49ers.

I'm still vomiting.

i can understand this, but this giants team is not playing like the one that lost to new orleans by 25. still, you would definitely have had reason to be confident against them.

and i don't get why everyone's got piss in their cornflakes here, the last time these teams played in the super bowl it was ******* awesome

diabsoule
01-23-2012, 09:17 AM
LOL! Do those guys have any perspective? The last two Super Bowl winners and they got thrashed by better teams and they're whining.

I wish you two 12 years of mediocrity and bad luck.

All Saints fans knew before the Sean Payton hire and Drew Brees acquisition was mediocrity and bad luck.

Cudders
01-23-2012, 09:21 AM
Donít understand people getting so upset over the media-fabricated rematch angle. It isnít. Not of Super Bowl XLII, at least. There are some leftovers from that game, but itís not like these teams are exact replicas of their predecessors. That was four seasons ago. A lot has changed.

Iím still quite excited about this game. First off, Iíve got to give a lot of credit to Fewell these past few weeks. I was a harsh critic and thought he would be their undoing in the postseason, but heís stepped up and delivered so far. Itíll be intriguing to see what kind of game plan he draws up to combat the Patriots this time around. Thatís such a tough offense to scheme against, especially if youíve already played them because theyíre able to be multiple and force you to reveal indicators. And Brady doesnít need much information to be insanely successful.

Obviously, Gronkís health is the biggest issue for the Patriots. New England has the best two-tight end set in the league, but to me, Hernandezís effectiveness declines when he doesnít have an all-around beast like Gronk on the field. Itís much easier to scheme against Hernandez when heís the focal point. And I understand Gronk came back from the locker room, but Iím not reading too much into that. He was a blocker and the run went opposite side. He wasnít asked to execute much there. Asking him to run and cut on a gimp ankle is a different animal. He screams gamer to me though, so I donít doubt heíll give it his absolute best shot.

If I were on the Giants offensive staff, I would be salivating at what I saw last night. Julian Edelman was on the field at defensive back on the Super Bowl-deciding drive. And he was even left in situations where he was locked up with Anquan Boldin. When drafting a rough script, I think itís a foregone conclusion to dial up some unbalanced formations. Put four wide outs on the field and stretch that defense. Force New England to substitute and enter their sub-packages. If Edelman finds the field, Eli will find him. Heíll isolate him pre-snap and pick on him all game long. Belichick is a bright defensive mind and a master game-planner, but thatís a glaring mismatch and depth in the defensive backfield is a critical component against a quarterback like Eli.

Jughead10
01-23-2012, 09:24 AM
The Giants have a lot more leftovers than the Patriots do. And the guys that are leftover are the main players in most cases, thus both teams getting back. The biggest difference is the WRs for the Giants and the TEs for the Pats.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 09:26 AM
I have the Giants by a TD. Cruz and Nicks are going to beast all over that New England secondary and I think the Giants D will hold the Pats in check enough to win the rematch.

Canadian_draft_fan
01-23-2012, 09:36 AM
Why do these threads always degenerate into name calling?

Anyway Peter King pointed out that the Giants have the clearest sign they are going to win the SB. in 2007 the Gmen lost in week 15 to the Skins, in 2011 the Gmen lost to the Skins in week 15.

Based on that irrefutable evidenced I'm calling the Giants to win even though I hate them, LOL!!

Sloopy
01-23-2012, 09:37 AM
I have the Giants by a TD. Cruz and Nicks are going to beast all over that New England secondary and I think the Giants D will hold the Pats in check enough to win the rematch.

Giants D is overrated

/troll

But really I think the Giants take this one. Without reiterating my points from last week, I think that we have seen this season/sunday what good teams can do to the Pats.

On a side note: Hey Pats fans... I bet you can't wait to hear about 2007 for the next two weeks :D

Whether it be stupid comments about how you can't get it back or just the straight up, "well just look at 2007, clearly this means we can beat them in 2012."

yanksknicks
01-23-2012, 09:43 AM
31-23 Pats.

Sloopy
01-23-2012, 09:50 AM
31-23 Pats.

I'm assuming Eli and his receivers will do better than 23 on this defense. They let Flacco and friends put up 20.

I know that it doesn't guarantee them to do better, but I have a pretty good feeling considering.

jrdrylie
01-23-2012, 09:51 AM
34-33 Giants

crossroads
01-23-2012, 09:52 AM
Man, there's just so much anger and resentment on these boards the last couple days....anyways, I think this turns into one of those "team with the ball last wins" type of games...gun to my head, I say Giants win 31-28, but won't be surprised at all if the Pats win.

As much as I don't think New England has any way to cover the Nicks/Cruz combo, I also don't know that the Giants have anyone who can cover Gronkowski without letting Hernandez go buck wild on them.

CDCB14
01-23-2012, 09:57 AM
This is my nightmare. I hate the whole idea of this game.

I live in connecticut and I'm a Cowboys fan, prime country for both teams, and both of their fans suck. I don't even know what to do. I almost want to blow up the earth. Worst possible super bowl. I'm not watching.

Prowler
01-23-2012, 10:29 AM
This is going to be such a terrible media type of game.

1) Tom Brady trying to match Montana's Super Bowls. Which will lead to pointless arguing over who's better.

2) WTF happens if the Giants win? Brady is now one of the all-time greats, except when he plays against Eli? Will he be labeled Eli's *****? Just terrible. Nobody will mention the defenses, it will be Eli destroying Tom Brady.

3. New England vs New York...the entire West Coast probably just stopped watching football this year.

Razor
01-23-2012, 11:05 AM
I'm guessing Giants take it.
So am I... I can't see the Patriots winning this. I believe that we have a chance, but I'm a rational human being and don't believe in miracles. If anyone could beat the Giants it'd be the Patriots fueled by revenge, but I'm not holding my breath.

Jvig = Nervous/Happy for a chance at revenge.

Razor = ******** himself by thought of what Eli-te and his receivers can do to this atrocious Patriots secondary...

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 11:19 AM
This is going to be such a terrible media type of game.

1) Tom Brady trying to match Montana's Super Bowls. Which will lead to pointless arguing over who's better.

2) WTF happens if the Giants win? Brady is now one of the all-time greats, except when he plays against Eli? Will he be labeled Eli's *****? Just terrible. Nobody will mention the defenses, it will be Eli destroying Tom Brady.

3. New England vs New York...the entire West Coast probably just stopped watching football this year.

Well the west coast should stop sucking. Other than the 49ers this year, the Wests have been the lousiest divisions the last couple of years. The AFC West was all .500 this year, the NFC West was below .500 last year.

Pats/Giants, Packers/Steelers, Saints/Colts...hell Pittsburgh Arizona was the last time a team from the western half of the country even played in one. And before that, it was Giants/Pats, Bears/Colts...

Prowler
01-23-2012, 11:24 AM
I still can't shake what's going to happen to Tom Brady if the Patriots lose to the Giants.

"Eli better than Tom" "Tom=Eli's female dog"

I think he'd go postal and rampage the NFL for 70 TDs next year if he losses this game and has to listen to that.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I still can't shake what's going to happen to Tom Brady if the Patriots lose to the Giants.

"Eli better than Tom" "Tom=Eli's female dog"

I think he'd go postal and rampage the NFL for 70 TDs next year if he losses this game and has to listen to that.

Gronk is good and all, but Brady needs like 3 Randy Mosses to do that.

SuperPacker
01-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I dont know who i want to win. The Giants would be funny because they would of beat the Pats again, but if Tom Brady wins he would have his 4th superbowl which would be awesome!

MetSox17
01-23-2012, 11:48 AM
Here's hoping for that meteor to head to Indianapolis..

Prowler
01-23-2012, 11:54 AM
Peyton Manning has been game-planning that meteor this entire season. He's ready for it and that meteor will never know what hit it. It's going to be knocked away from our planet and into the asteroid belt. There, it will inform other passing meteor's and asteroids thinking about jetting to Earth to stay put or avoid Earth at all cost. Peyton Manning just saved Earth from Armageddon. Bruce Willis sit your ass down and go back to the oil rig.

BradysKnee
01-23-2012, 12:00 PM
I hope Gronk can do this to some of the Giants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATNd01-hlxE

A Perfect Score
01-23-2012, 12:12 PM
Here's hoping for that meteor to head to Indianapolis..

Yeah I have zero interest in watching these two teams play.

PackerLegend
01-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Here's hoping for that meteor to head to Indianapolis..

U read my mind.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Everyone is just jealous.

scottyboy
01-23-2012, 12:24 PM
haters gonna hate.

the only one whos hatred towards the Giants I can understand is metsox because he's a division rival. i dont get the random giants hate from other fan bases.
well, except ATL because he has to live with the douchebag giants fans, so that too is at least slightly understandable

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 12:26 PM
haters gonna hate.

the only one whos hatred towards the Giants I can understand is metsox because he's a division rival. i dont get the random giants hate from other fan bases.
well, except ATL because he has to live with the douchebag giants fans, so that too is at least slightly understandable

Jets fans are also justifiably pissy. A divisional rival or the rival they share a city with?

tjsunstein
01-23-2012, 12:27 PM
LOL! Do those guys have any perspective? The last two Super Bowl winners and they got thrashed by better teams and they're whining.

I wish you two 12 years of mediocrity and bad luck.
You wouldn't know this as a Bills fan but after you win a Super Bowl, your expectations actually go up. Sure, the Packers won the Super Bow last year but I'd lie if I said I was content with a 15-1 season and a loss at home against the eventual NFC champ. The Packers were plenty capable of beating the Giants, they just came out and played their worst game in a solid 400 days. That's the perspective I have.

Not to take anything away from Eli and the Giants, they're playing incredible right now on both sides of the ball.

Everyone is just jealous.
That 'everyone' includes you, right?

scottyboy
01-23-2012, 12:29 PM
Jets fans are also justifiably pissy. A divisional rival or the rival they share a city with?

yeah but the majority of jets fans are huge douches and they deserve to be in this situation. guarantee that, douchers. Thinking they're not the little brothers and constantly talking ****. I show absolutely 0 sympathy for them.

and i dont mean the guys here, we have good posters here, just the ones in reality and the team in general

Sloopy
01-23-2012, 12:30 PM
I love T-sizzle:

44HQGlTUyh8

Be an analyst, don't be a douche-bag

Rosebud
01-23-2012, 12:30 PM
You wouldn't know this as a Bills fan but after you win a Super Bowl, your expectations actually go up. Sure, the Packers won the Super Bow last year but I'd lie if I said I was content with a 15-1 season and a loss at home against the eventual NFC champ. The Packers were plenty capable of beating the Giants, they just came out and played their worst game in a solid 400 days. That's the perspective I have.

Not to take anything away from Eli and the Giants, they're playing incredible right now on both sides of the ball.


That 'everyone' includes you, right?

I think that's absurd. I was disappointed when plax shot himself and cost us back to back titles in 2008, but you and diab were reacting worse than I did to losing to the god damned most-despicable-fanbase-in-the-league Iggles.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 12:31 PM
That 'everyone' includes you, right?

Meh. I'd prefer my team be in the Superbowl obviously, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying the last meaningful game of the season.

I'm just pushing back against all of the people who are like "eww, awful matchup...I have no interest in this...I hope a meteor strikes the stadium...etc"

Enjoy it guys because it's the last football game you'll get for like 8 months.

bigbluedefense
01-23-2012, 12:42 PM
I understand the hate. I won't try to defend either team. But when you say you're not going to watch the Super Bowl this year....stop it. Just stop.

You'll watch every single play and all the commercials. We all will. We post on a goddamn football forum for crying out loud, we're all gonna watch the Super Bowl.

CDCB14
01-23-2012, 12:48 PM
I understand the hate. I won't try to defend either team. But when you say you're not going to watch the Super Bowl this year....stop it. Just stop.

You'll watch every single play and all the commercials. We all will. We post on a goddamn football forum for crying out loud, we're all gonna watch the Super Bowl.

Actually, i'm really not watching the superbowl. I'm going to get noise canceling headphones and watch movies for 4 hours. I hate both teams more than anything lol this is the worst possible scenario.

If anything I guess i'll root for the Pats because of Bob Kraft's wife dying, but i'm still not watching.

ElectricEye
01-23-2012, 12:50 PM
I understand the hate. I won't try to defend either team. But when you say you're not going to watch the Super Bowl this year....stop it. Just stop.

You'll watch every single play and all the commercials. We all will. We post on a goddamn football forum for crying out loud, we're all gonna watch the Super Bowl.

This is a great way of putting it my friend. It could be the Jets and the Cowboys(picked that one sort of arbitrarily) and I would still watch every snap.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 12:50 PM
Dude, the Packers were in it last year and the Bill Polian Colts before that. And I watched both Superbowls.

You just don't NOT watch the Superbowl.That's stupid.

descendency
01-23-2012, 12:50 PM
Jets fans are also justifiably pissy. A divisional rival or the rival they share a city with?

Share? Big Brother could be winning a Super Bowl while little brother has to sit back and watch.

SuperPacker
01-23-2012, 01:27 PM
I wont have to go through the pain of watching adverts. WOOOO!!!

But it will be at 1AM in the morning. BOOOO!!!

nepg
01-23-2012, 01:32 PM
I understand the hate. I won't try to defend either team. But when you say you're not going to watch the Super Bowl this year....stop it. Just stop.

You'll watch every single play and all the commercials. We all will. We post on a goddamn football forum for crying out loud, we're all gonna watch the Super Bowl.
Since 1996, I rarely watch Super Bowls that don't include the Patriots.

Smooth Criminal
01-23-2012, 01:58 PM
I understand the NE hate. They're one of the AFC regulars, them the Colts, and the Steelers being the only teams to win the AFC since 2003. Any of those 3 is going to get some hate as teams that win a lot usually do. Add that to Belicheck's smug attitude and people still not getting over the Pats cheating in early superbowls, and you've set yourself up as the national villain.

As to the Giants, they're in a huge market and have other huge market rivals that aren't happy about them being here. They won it just a few years ago, and again people hate seeing the same teams win. I feel like Eli still is an unpopular guy around fans as well, not sure why though.

I'll definitely watch, always will, and root for the Giants again just like I did in 07. Eli is quickly becoming one of my favorite non Steelers and I couldn't stomach watching Brady get a 4th ring.

MetSox17
01-23-2012, 02:01 PM
I'm gonna be watching because i will be praying for that meteor to hit. I need visual confirmation.

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 02:02 PM
I understand the NE hate. They're one of the AFC regulars, them the Colts, and the Steelers being the only teams to win the AFC since 2003. Any of those 3 is going to get some hate as teams that win a lot usually do. Add that to Belicheck's smug attitude and people still not getting over the Pats cheating in early superbowls, and you've set yourself up as the national villain.

As to the Giants, they're in a huge market and have other huge market rivals that aren't happy about them being here. They won it just a few years ago, and again people hate seeing the same teams win. I feel like Eli still is an unpopular guy around fans as well, not sure why though.

I'll definitely watch, always will, and root for the Giants again just like I did in 07. Eli is quickly becoming one of my favorite non Steelers and I couldn't stomach watching Brady get a 4th ring.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

They may have taped one Rams walkthrough practice and that somehow morphs into "they cheated in the early Superbowls"

...

ElectricEye
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
I'm so excited to re-live all of this.

bigbluedefense
01-23-2012, 02:17 PM
I can't wait to play the Jets in the Super Bowl. Subway Series!!!1111

BeerBaron
01-23-2012, 02:18 PM
I can't wait to play the Jets in the Super Bowl. Subway Series!!!1111

It'll happen right after all the old timers here get their wish of an all PA Superbowl.

That might be on I just refuse to watch...

sweetness34
01-23-2012, 02:51 PM
That 'everyone' includes you, right?

Meh, not really because with Cutler and Forte healthy we're playing in the Super Bowl. :)

Babylon
01-23-2012, 02:53 PM
It'll be worth watching just for the adjustments both teams will have to make to win. I expect to see a lot of extra lineman formations by New England to keep the Giants pass rushers away from Brady. On the other side the Giants are going to have to cover better with their safeties. Both Green Bay and San francisco TEs were left open more than they can afford to let happen with NE.

sweetness34
01-23-2012, 02:58 PM
You just don't NOT watch the Superbowl.That's stupid.

Last year was pretty hard man. I would've had a lot of enjoyment watching the Packers lose, but witnessing Rodgers tear up that defense was such a horrible feeling. What made it even worse was that their offensive execution was pretty incredible to watch.

Wait, I just praised the Packers in the Super Bowl? ****, ****, ****.

Goddammit Johnny Knox. Why did you have to slip on that route? Ugh.

Get healthy man though because that injury was horrific.

crossroads
01-23-2012, 03:14 PM
It'll be worth watching just for the adjustments both teams will have to make to win. I expect to see a lot of extra lineman formations by New England to keep the Giants pass rushers away from Brady. On the other side the Giants are going to have to cover better with their safeties. Both Green Bay and San francisco TEs were left open more than they can afford to let happen with NE.

Both Gronk and JPP will be on the field at the same time. That alone is reason enough to watch this game.

BloodBrother
01-23-2012, 03:41 PM
I generally want the NFC champ to win in most cases...unless its a division rival or the Cowboys. My sister's husband is a Giants fan to so that helps

BradysKnee
01-23-2012, 04:12 PM
I want to hear Rex Ryan's prediction for this game.

descendency
01-23-2012, 04:17 PM
I want to hear Rex Ryan's prediction for this game.

The Jets will win the Super Bowl.

Babylon
01-23-2012, 04:20 PM
I want to hear Rex Ryan's prediction for this game.

Then we'll bet the other way.

JRTPlaya21
01-23-2012, 04:33 PM
Go Giants......guess I'll stick with that NFC East pride & after all the hate that was in the cfb thread about that BCS rematch I say just enjoy the ride guys.

DraftSavant
01-23-2012, 04:39 PM
If you are not excited for Rob Brokowski and the rest of the Trolling Elvii for Superbowl media week...you are not a human being.

J-Mike88
01-23-2012, 05:34 PM
This is my nightmare. I hate the whole idea of this game.
Me too, we wanted Brady vs Rodgers.

But now that it's here, GO GIANTS. Just like last time.

DraftSavant
01-23-2012, 05:35 PM
This game is basically Rex Ryan's nightmare, right?

Complex
01-23-2012, 05:40 PM
This game is basically Rex Ryan's nightmare, right?

Yep and ESPN's wet dream.

DraftSavant
01-23-2012, 05:41 PM
Yep and ESPN's wet dream.

Not enough Tebow or Favre. Brady and Eli were ESPN afterthoughts all year.

Splat
01-23-2012, 05:46 PM
I'm not a fan of either team but will pull for NE because of Brian Waters.

Complex
01-23-2012, 05:50 PM
Not enough Tebow or Favre. Brady and Eli were ESPN afterthoughts all year.

NY(a Manning) and Boston(Brady and Belicheck) not good enough for ESPN? the only way it would be better if Tim Tebow was a special guest referee.

descendency
01-23-2012, 06:10 PM
If Denver played Favre's team, it'd have two of the best QBs in the NFL at one point:

Tebow and Favre and John Elway, when he comes down and replaces Teboh.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:10 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/24/justin-tuck-people-dont-give-us-a-shot-and-we-like-that/

Alright, first, WHY are the Patriots the favorites?

Secondly, I guess I don't really have one...

WHY are the Patriots the favorites? They're not my favorites.

DraftSavant
01-24-2012, 12:24 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/24/justin-tuck-people-dont-give-us-a-shot-and-we-like-that/

Alright, first, WHY are the Patriots the favorites?

Secondly, I guess I don't really have one...

WHY are the Patriots the favorites? They're not my favorites.

Everyone is trying to figure this out.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Everyone is trying to figure this out.

I'm glad I'm not alone then. I think I like just about ALL of the matchups in favor of the Giants.

There isn't much of a difference between Brady and Eli right now, and Eli has the far better weapons for taking advantage of the Patriots weakness in the secondary.

And the Giants pass rush should make short work of the Patriots o-line, forcing Brady into quick passes at best.

I just don't get this.

Prowler
01-24-2012, 12:29 PM
http://0.tqn.com/d/jewelry/1/0/_/5/SuperBowlXXXIX.jpg

and

http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/alg_tom_brady.jpg

Its true that the Giants are playing well, but they still had their downs during the regular season and barely made the playoffs.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:35 PM
I counter with:

http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2008_02_sbnews1.jpg

And

http://i.imgur.com/cHE3y.jpg

And

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1130/fan_g_cruznicks_sy_576.jpg

AND

http://media.nj.com/giants_impact/photo/10414257-large.jpg

This is stupid. The Pats should not be favorites in this game.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm glad I'm not alone then. I think I like just about ALL of the matchups in favor of the Giants.

There isn't much of a difference between Brady and Eli right now, and Eli has the far better weapons for taking advantage of the Patriots weakness in the secondary.

And the Giants pass rush should make short work of the Patriots o-line, forcing Brady into quick passes at best.

I just don't get this.

I think we're fine with quick passes. We're not the same offense we were in 2007, far from it. Things take far less time to develop with the group we have now. Far less explosive, but I think we match up better than we did. I'm not sure why we're favorites either as the Giants have far more talent than we do on both sides of the ball, but I think we'll be able to move the ball on them some, in spite of how hot they are on that side of the ball.

Giantsfan1080
01-24-2012, 12:37 PM
More casual bettors bet the Super Bowl and the Pats and Brady are a bigger name than the Giants. In order to keep the betting qual on both sides this is the line they came up with.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:38 PM
I think we're fine with quick passes. We're not the same offense we were in 2007, far from it. Things take far less time to develop with the group we have now. Far less explosive, but I think we match up better than we did. I'm not sure why we're favorites either as the Giants have far more talent than we do on both sides of the ball, but I think we'll be able to move the ball on them some, in spite of how hot they are on that side of the ball.

As long as the Giants offense goes off against your D like I predict, the Giants would probably be fine with allowing you the short passes.

It decreases big play potential, causes you to make more plays to move up the field increasing the potential for mistakes (like Welker volleyball setting the pass up to a waiting defender,) and increases the likelihood that Brady gets frustrated and just forces a pass (like the pick going for Slater in the Ravens game.)

I truly and honestly have no idea who could consider the Patriots favorites in this game. That's not to say they can't win, but they sure as hell shouldn't be favored.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 12:42 PM
As long as the Giants offense goes off against your D like I predict, the Giants would probably be fine with allowing you the short passes.


Why would they be? That's our game. Short completions with yards after the catch and hit the seams with Gronk. If I'm the Giants, I'm trying to take away those passes and try to make us beat them deep, even. That's what the Ravens did to an extent and we couldn't do it. I don't think the Giants have the type of personnel to do that as much though.

Prowler
01-24-2012, 12:45 PM
do the Giants have the personnel to stop Gronk and Hernandez? Which running game is more effective? Which oline? Nicks and Cruz are great, but the Patriots have plenty of weapons also.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:50 PM
do the Giants have the personnel to stop Gronk and Hernandez? Which running game is more effective? Which oline? Nicks and Cruz are great, but the Patriots have plenty of weapons also.

I like Boley's odds to at least slow one of the TEs down than what most teams have been able to throw at the Pats.

Run game will be whoever focuses on it more. The Giants has been quite effective in spurts, but the Pats have shut down the last two run games they've faced in the Broncos and Ravens.

O-lines are...a crap shoot. The Pats will need to help Solder. He didn't look too hot against the Ravens and the Giants have a lot more to throw at him than the Ravens did. If Paul Kruger gets through I have to wonder what kind of havoc JPP, Tuck and Osi might wreak.

And yes, the Pats have their own weapons, but the Giants are 3 deep with quality receivers while the Pats aren't even 1 deep with quality DBs. (At least based off of the performances this season...it's a godawful unit.)

I like the Giants receivers against the Pats secondary and the Giants pass rush against the Patriots o-line a lot more than I like any aspect of the Patriots game over something of the Giants.

Hence my confusion as to why the Pats are favored.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 12:50 PM
I am a pretty big homer but I gotta agree. No way we should be favorites going into this. The Giants are more talented and experienced in the playoffs.
The whole redemption/BB/Brady thing is played far too hard in Vegas.

Offense:

QB ==
RB ==
WR Giants
TE Patriots
OL Patriots

DL Giants
LB ==
DB Giants

ST Patriots

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:53 PM
I wouldn't be as unequivocal about the o-lines either. Guard play specifically, sure, give it to the Pats. Snee is good but I'd take Mankins and Waters.

But the Pats tackles scare me against the pass rush potential of the Giants. Paul Kruger made Nate Solder his ***** a few times...him vs JPP/Tuck/Osi could get ugly fast.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't be as unequivocal about the o-lines either. Guard play specifically, sure, give it to the Pats. Snee is good but I'd take Mankins and Waters.

But the Pats tackles scare me against the pass rush potential of the Giants. Paul Kruger made Nate Solder his ***** a few times...him vs JPP/Tuck/Osi could get ugly fast.

It's not as bad as you think. Vollmer should be back and regardless Gronk is the best chipping TE in the league. He basically helped isolate Suggs the whole game last week.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 12:59 PM
It's not as bad as you think. Vollmer should be back and regardless Gronk is the best chipping TE in the league. He basically helped isolate Suggs the whole game last week.

Still, a returning-from-injury Vollmer and a well past his prime Matt Light aren't a whole lot better considering what they'll be up against.

Prowler
01-24-2012, 01:00 PM
I think Brady will breathe easier knowing that he isn't looking for Ed Reed, Suggs, or Ray Lewis on every down. Its easy enough to identify the rush from the dline and not have to worry about Ed Reed jumping a route. The Giants D vs Alex Smith is scary, but it doesn't do much to worry me against a Tom Brady.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Still, a returning-from-injury Vollmer and a well past his prime Matt Light aren't a whole lot better considering what they'll be up against.

It's true that's why I expect the Pats to do this often and early.

Hern---------- Gronk-Light-Mankins-Conn-Waters-Vollmer-Solder---------- Welker
----------------------------------------Brady


----------------------------------------BJGE

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 01:05 PM
It's true that's why I expect the Pats to do this often and early.

Hern---------- Gronk-Light-Mankins-Conn-Waters-Light-Solder---------- Welker
----------------------------------------Brady


----------------------------------------BJGE

Cloning Light this week?

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 01:06 PM
Cloning Light this week?

I wouldn't pick Matt Light, that's for sure...heh

I'm guessing one of the Lights is supposed to be Vollmer?

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 01:07 PM
Regardless, as a Giants fan, I'd love to see that formation. Brady under center with a 6 OL eligible. Where can I sign up for that?

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 01:08 PM
Cloning Light this week?

Er Vollmer.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 01:09 PM
Regardless, as a Giants fan, I'd love to see that formation. Brady under center with a 6 OL eligible. Where can I sign up for that?

I really expect the Pats to run run run on you guys early. Mix it up certainly but I think they are strongly committing to the run.

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 01:12 PM
I really expect the Pats to run run run on you guys early. Mix it up certainly but I think they are strongly committing to the run.

Thank you.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 01:17 PM
Thank you.

Why? You routinely give up 120/g and last week for some reason the 9ers didn't commit to it as much.

I think setting up playaction with a strong rushing attack is absolutely essential to stopping your pass rush and opening up the intermediate areas for Gronk and Hern.

FlyingElvis
01-24-2012, 01:24 PM
I fear the passing attack the Giants are packing. They're uber-talented and can smoke any defense. Sprinkle in a huge dose of uber-untalented Patriots D and this is not a winnable game. Vince needs to be a dominant force again or things could be ugly.

That can clearly happen, as Wilfork is one of the best in the game.

The saving grace is that the Giants D, while playing well of late, is vulnerable. You can bet your arses the Pats will be scheming TE isolation plays all day in order to repeat the success Davis just had against the Gmen.

I agree the Pats will likely feature more running than most anticipate. We all know it's the best way to slow a rush. The Giants have not been strong against the run this year and the Pats aren't afraid to exploit formations and defensive packages. Personally, I would love to see some screen passes, as that helps against sell-out type pass rush, too.

The line is completely understandable. It's pretty rare (unheard of?) that the lower ranked team would be favored coming into any game. This is still a matchup of 1 seed v. 4 seed, and the line takes that into account. The MHK, revenge, Montana's record, or any other Pats friendly angle is certainly going to push the spread in NE's favor. Every time a talking head spews that nonsense it only solidifies the group-think mentality that the average gambler gobbles up. The same sillyness existed when the Bills beat NE early in the season - undeniable evidence for anyone who cared to look showed a hot Bills team doing everything the Pats couldn't stop exceptionally well.

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 01:25 PM
Why? You routinely give up 120/g and last week for some reason the 9ers didn't commit to it as much.

I think setting up playaction with a strong rushing attack is absolutely essential to stopping your pass rush and opening up the intermediate areas for Gronk and Hern.

You don't have the San Fran O-line. For every 20 yards rushing you get that could be 60 through the air you didn't. I hope you get away from your bread and butter, the passing game.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 01:27 PM
Also, BGE is no Frank Gore. He doesn't fumble...ever...but he's very, very, very plain.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 01:31 PM
You don't have the San Fran O-line. For every 20 yards rushing you get that could be 60 through the air you didn't. I hope you get away from your bread and butter, the passing game.

I do not want a shootout vs Eli and your WRs vs our secondary.

Slowing the game out and tiring out your defense is the best course.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 01:37 PM
I said it in the team forum already, but I think this is a perfect time to try to get the backs involved in the passing game again. Woodhead had half the production that he had last year and we just didn't seem too interested in using that as a weapon. Seems like a good thing to use against the Giants and a good wrinkle to try to add in to stay unpredictable. I'm guessing Ridley plays too after sitting last week. We really missed his explosiveness last week.

As far as the 6 offensive linemen thing goes, it will happen at some point. We've done it all year. It's not a run exclusive look either. We've passed and ran equally from it.

I'm really not concerned about not being able to move the ball though. It's a what have you done for me lately and of course everyone is going to focus on the fact we didn't score on the Ravens, but when we're on our game we can score with anyone. What we did all year doesn't become negated because of one game.

Giantsfan1080
01-24-2012, 01:38 PM
I just wanted to point out that Matt Light is Osi's *****. Light even tried to fight Osi in the game earlier this year because he was getting beat by him.

Razor
01-24-2012, 01:40 PM
PFF_MikeClay Mike Clay
Brandon Jacobs managed 22 yards on 21 'one yard to go' carries this season. #Giants

This is worrying.... For the Pats. This just means that the ball will be in Eli's hands for most of the game. We're going to get absofuckinglutely killed.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Brandon Jacobs is infuriating. If he ran as big as he is, he'd be un-*******-stoppable. Grrrr.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm really not buying into this whole thing where Eli can outscore us comfortably if we can get Gronk healthy. The Giants have some advantages for sure and I've already said they should be favored, but I just don't understand that one. A lot is being made of the Ravens shutting us down, but it's not like we didn't have opportunities. I can almost guarantee that we won't have as many trips to the redzone without touchdowns as we did against Baltimore.

I don't think we're getting credit for playing better football on defense than we were in the first meeting with the Giants either. This defense is a whole different ballgame. We're still one of the worst units in the league in terms of stopping the pass, but we're far less hapless. As cliche as it is, this looks like a Belichick defense now. We have a bunch of guys who do their job and are capable of making big plays in big moments. It's not pretty, but I feel a hell of a lot better about this group than I did in our first meeting.

Citing more cliches fearlessly, a lot of people are underestimating this team right now. We already had something to prove after the way we played against the Ravens, but this is the kind of situation this team really likes....even if the reality of it is that most people are calling this a pretty even game to be decided by a touchdown.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 01:50 PM
Dude, if Joe Flacco were anyone but Joe Flacco that game might have been a slaughter. And hell, if not for Sterling Moore being useful at the most opportune time, the Ravens would be in this game and all of the talk would be how bad the Pats defense was.

Is the defense improved since Henne and Vince Young carved them up? Yeah, but let's not pretend they're suddenly GOOD. Less terrible.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 01:52 PM
That's good enough to win if our offense plays their best football. I fully expect Eli to put up more than 330 yards with a few touchdowns. If Brady can get healthy and play the way he's capable of playing, we can outscore them.

The gameplan will be completely different than it was against Baltimore as well. Eli is an elite quarterback and we'll treat him like an elite quarterback. We dared Joe Flacco to beat us and he nearly did. He gets a lot of credit for that...but he wasn't on top of the priority list. Not the way Eli will be.

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 01:52 PM
We also didn't have Hakeem Nicks that game. So any better the defense has gotten, is negated by that in my opinion. But I do agree the defense isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 01:55 PM
We also didn't have Hakeem Nicks that game. So any better the defense has gotten, is negated by that in my opinion. But I do agree the defense isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

...and don't get me wrong. You guys are going to pass the ball and score on us. I just wouldn't count this group out of making a big play at some point. They haven't done it in the playoffs yet, but they're more than capable of doing it. We've lost the turnover battle two straight games. That's not who we are as a football team and I'm not betting on that happening again.

Prowler
01-24-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm really not buying into any kind of Giants hype right now. Tom Brady has been sacked a whole 1 time this post season. Eli has played another game, but he was still sacked 8 times already. Team defense sacks...Giants with 9 and Patriots with 8. I'm not really buying it. I think I'll trust the 13-3 Patriots who are more consistent and better at executing their plays than put my faith in deep shots to young WRs in a Super Bowl.

FlyingElvis
01-24-2012, 02:16 PM
...and don't get me wrong. You guys are going to pass the ball and score on us. I just wouldn't count this group out of making a big play at some point. They haven't done it in the playoffs yet, but they're more than capable of doing it. We've lost the turnover battle two straight games. That's not who we are as a football team and I'm not betting on that happening again.

They have done it. Without the TD breakup by Moore, Wilfork knocking the Ravens out of FG range + quite a few other huge plays, and Spikes INT (negated by the asinine attempt at a long ball to Slater) the Ravens might be heading to Indy instead.

The Pats D is not that much better than the last meeting, but they are playing better as a whole like you say. Sterling Moore is playing good ball, we have a few guys back that were banged up, but they still spotted the last few teams they played in the regular season a few TDs each and forced the O to play catchup. The stats they showed about playoff defense for NE are garbage. Tebow doesn't put up gaudy stats even when the Broncos are winning. That 3-and-out stat they kept displaying for "playoff defense" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. lol

This game really looks like a lock to be a last possession game, same as last time. I expect the tide to turn a few times, and the DST to notch the big play with the fewest amount of ticks remaining is the one that sets up it's offense to win.

Unless Brady looks as bad as he did last week, then it might be ugly. I don't expect him to suck without the Giants getting big pressure. So I guess that's what I think makes the biggest difference in this matchup. Which, frankly, seems like the most obvious thing in the world to say and I feel a bit foolish for having done so.

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm really not buying into any kind of Giants hype right now. Tom Brady has been sacked a whole 1 time this post season. Eli has played another game, but he was still sacked 8 times already. Team defense sacks...Giants with 9 and Patriots with 8. I'm not really buying it. I think I'll trust the 13-3 Patriots who are more consistent and better at executing their plays than put my faith in deep shots to young WRs in a Super Bowl.

Haha. Just saying if we played Tebow and had him run around behind the LOS like a chicken with his head cut off, we'd probably have 15 sacks.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 02:20 PM
They have done it. Without the TD breakup by Moore, Wilfork knocking the Ravens out of FG range + quite a few other huge plays, and Spikes INT (negated by the asinine attempt at a long ball to Slater) the Ravens might be heading to Indy instead.

I guess I should have prefaced it by saying "a big play that leads to points". Because we haven't had that yet, haha. But yeah, I'm with you on the last possession thing....and obviously if Brady plays like **** again, we're getting blown out of the stadium.

Haha. Just saying if we played Tebow and had him run around behind the LOS like a chicken with his head cut off, we'd probably have 15 sacks.

That is true. We've had some pass rush in spots, but the statistics are inflated by Timmy. One thing I'm worried about is Eli manning moving the pocket potentially. The Ravens really exposed the fact that we don't have a whole lot of athletic guys along the defensive line with that. Eli might not be Michael Vick, but if Flacco can do it he certainly can.

Leon Sandcastle
01-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Tom Brady almost always follows up a bad game with a great game. He's good enough to win this by himself.

David Diehl and Kareem McKenzie sucked it up against the Niners but I think that has more to do with how good the Smiths are and how dominating that Front 7 is more than anything.

Vollmer, Solder, Light v Osi, Tuck, JPP, Tollefson, Kiawaunka in a dome? They're good enough to win this game by themselves too.

If Manning has decent protection how do the Patriots account for Nicks, Cruz and Manningham?

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 02:43 PM
Yeah the dome plays a huge role in this. Both teams are likely putting up 30+.
The pass rush should be strong in the dome with good footing.

I do wonder how much interior pressure the Giants will be able to handle from Wilfork and Love Spikes/Mayo after seeing what they did to Yanda/Birk etc.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 02:47 PM
I'm not counting on Wilfork having that kind of game again. That was absolutely special. He's a dominant player who will never get the credit he deserves because the guys around him suck, but a NT just can't take the game into his hands like that every week. I certainly hope he can, but I'm not counting on it. Especially with that game serving as a big fat reminder that he requires double teaming in most situations.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Which I'm sure the Giants will give him considering the Pats have no other pass rush threats that really scare anyone. Why the Ravens didn't do it more, I've got nothing.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm not counting on Wilfork having that kind of game again. That was absolutely special. He's a dominant player who will never get the credit he deserves because the guys around him suck, but a NT just can't take the game into his hands like that every week. I certainly hope he can, but I'm not counting on it. Especially with that game serving as a big fat reminder that he requires double teaming in most situations.

I absolutely count on it. He went balls to the wall, he wants to win. He has 2 weeks to rest and I am guessing he's going to be a BIT more pumped for a SB than AFCC. Wilfork might be a darkhorse SBMVP.

FlyingElvis
01-24-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm not counting on Wilfork having that kind of game again. That was absolutely special. He's a dominant player who will never get the credit he deserves because the guys around him suck, but a NT just can't take the game into his hands like that every week. I certainly hope he can, but I'm not counting on it. Especially with that game serving as a big fat reminder that he requires double teaming in most situations.

He doesn't have to do it every week. Just for two of 'em, and he can even take one off in between. ;)

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Which I'm sure the Giants will give him considering the Pats have no other pass rush threats that really scare anyone. Why the Ravens didn't do it more, I've got nothing.

He'll get slowed if they do Double/Triple him (The ravens did this later in the game).
But as always it opens up other guys.

Jughead10
01-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Yeah you guys were certainly getting an unusual amount of pressure even when just rushing 3.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Seriously, Wilfork was a beast. He was literally carrying linemen into Flacco with one arm and tackling him with the other. Can't say enough about what a player he's been for us all these years of Billy Boy's personnel mistakes have been biting us in the ass.

This picture basically sums it up well;

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6171/1326122948575.jpg

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 02:54 PM
"Mistakes" or "Non-attempts?"

Seriously...the last pass rush who was really worth a damn was...McGinnest?

He needs to draft a player that can scare other teams. Retreading Mark Anderson and Andre Carter and scrounging around to find Ninkovich are stop gap solutions.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 02:59 PM
"Mistakes" or "Non-attempts?"

Seriously...the last pass rush who was really worth a damn was...McGinnest?

He needs to draft a player that can scare other teams. Retreading Mark Anderson and Andre Carter and scrounging around to find Ninkovich are stop gap solutions.

Oh, I agree. It's been amazing how well the defense has played with practice squad players and retreads. If we had hit on some more bajillion draft picks we had, we would be the Green Bay Packers. That's the shittiest thing about being a Patriots fan in the midst of this all. For as good as we've been, we should be so much better....and it doesn't even seem like we try to. We've switched defenses, moved players around, and basically done everything to avoid committing to bringing in real talent for whatever reason. The worst part is that he seems legitimately convinced that some of the guys we have are as good as the ones we could have in spite of that obviously being far from the truth. A lot of fans buy into it around here too, which is a little bit frustrating for me to say the least. I really can't complain a whole heck of a lot though, considering we're in the Super Bowl haha....but we would have a much better shot at winning it if we have done better with personnel.

Overcoming stuff is great. Putting together a roster where you don't have to overcome things is even better.

scottyboy
01-24-2012, 03:03 PM
I am ******* terrified of wilfork. Terrified.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 03:12 PM
I am ******* terrified of wilfork. Terrified.

About the samr for Cruz lol.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 03:23 PM
"The Giants know they're underdogs...." - ESPN

The network is now completely over edge to the point where they're looking down like Wile E. Coyote and now gravity is kicking in.

I feel like I'm arguing with a woman. It's beyond just disagreeing with their point, I can't even comprehend it. I don't understand why the Patriots are favored. I don't.

ElectricEye
01-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Let me preface this by saying I admit I don't know a whole heck of a lot about Vegas lines, but 3.5 isn't a whole lot is it? I've heard that's going down too. Most of the national perspective I've heard on it is calling it to be a pretty close game...and locally, we certainly feel like the Giants present some massive challenges for us to overcome, especially with how bad we stunk against Baltimore. So yeah, I wouldn't say we should be favorites either, but it seems like most view it as a pick'em game.

FlyingElvis
01-24-2012, 03:44 PM
Yes, 3 points is basically the default spread on a close game, usually going to the home team or higher seed. (3.5 is simply ensuring they don't push.)

The other point that warrants mention is the fact that ESPN is garbage.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 04:08 PM
ESPN is garbage, but it's annoying. You'd think these teams were in their 2007 forms with the way they talk.

At the very, very least it should be a toss up. If not for gambling purposes, than at least in the way people (read: ESPN) talk about it. The "3 points for homefield" is kind of meaningless in a neutral site game as well.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 04:14 PM
ESPN is garbage, but it's annoying. You'd think these teams were in their 2007 forms with the way they talk.

At the very, very least it should be a toss up. If not for gambling purposes, than at least in the way people (read: ESPN) talk about it. The "3 points for homefield" is kind of meaningless in a neutral site game as well.

It is a toss up. This is going to be a really close football game. But I guess they gotta set odds. Analysts are morons though.

SuperPacker
01-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Just hearing Skip Bayless' name makes we want to stab someone.

BaLLiN
01-24-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm really not buying into any kind of Giants hype right now. Tom Brady has been sacked a whole 1 time this post season. Eli has played another game, but he was still sacked 8 times already. Team defense sacks...Giants with 9 and Patriots with 8. I'm not really buying it. I think I'll trust the 13-3 Patriots who are more consistent and better at executing their plays than put my faith in deep shots to young WRs in a Super Bowl.

Tom Brady wasn't holding onto the ball very long, but in the previous matchup he wasn't either. The giants mixed coverages and made plays on balls that were questionable throws into coverage. Patriots played Flacco and Tebow, both have been terrible in the pocket. Giants played Ryan who operated a short passing game, Rodgers who is very mobile, and Smith who basically only passed on play action, boots, and 3 step passes. Say what you want, but the opposing teams have changed their gameplans for us due to our line. Thats impact right there.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Tom Brady wasn't holding onto the ball very long, but in the previous matchup he wasn't either. The giants mixed coverages and made plays on balls that were questionable throws into coverage. Patriots played Flacco and Tebow, both have been terrible in the pocket. Giants played Ryan who operated a short passing game, Rodgers who is very mobile, and Smith who basically only passed on play action, boots, and 3 step passes. Say what you want, but the opposing teams have changed their gameplans for us due to our line. Thats impact right there.

One thing I've found is no team has challenged NYG on the ground!
Michael Turner - 15 carries.
Packers RBs - 15 carries.
49ers RBs - 19 carries.


Compare this to their Mid-Late Reg season losses -
Packers - 24 carries.
Redskins - 39 carries.
Eagles - 27 carries.
9ers - 20 carries.

Seems pretty evident to me that running the ball is crucial to succeeding vs NY. Effective or not it slows the passrush and keeps them honest.

BeerBaron
01-24-2012, 05:35 PM
Rushing attempts is a poor way to judge it. The only recent foe who really should have run it more was San Fran since it was a much closer game.

The higher rushing totals in the losses are almost always a result of the team being ahead rushing late to put it away.

Brent
01-24-2012, 05:37 PM
One thing I've found is no team has challenged NYG on the ground!
49ers RBs - 19 carries.

Compare this to their Mid-Late Reg season losses -
9ers - 20 carries.

Seems pretty evident to me that running the ball is crucial to succeeding vs NY. Effective or not it slows the passrush and keeps them honest.
I just had to point this out.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 05:38 PM
Rushing attempts is a poor way to judge it. The only recent foe who really should have run it more was San Fran since it was a much closer game.

The higher rushing totals in the losses are almost always a result of the team being ahead rushing late to put it away.

Yes In some scenarios, but I really believe against a team like NY you have to run it on them. If you try to do what Greenbay/Atlanta did and just go pass happy those pass rushers get a full head of steam and abandon run responsibility. It also keeps Eli and co. off the field.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 05:39 PM
I just had to point this out.

Yeah that one is pretty close. I just included it to be honest about things, maybe a giant fan can enlighten us how that first game went as I never saw it.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-24-2012, 05:46 PM
Seems pretty evident to me that running the ball is crucial to succeeding vs NY. Effective or not it slows the passrush and keeps them honest.


This seems to be from the same school of thought run to set up the play action. It doesn't work like that. You just need to be able to sell the run action. DL read keys.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 06:16 PM
This seems to be from the same school of thought run to set up the play action. It doesn't work like that. You just need to be able to sell the run action. DL read keys.

It certainly does work like that.
Sure at the NFL you have to disguise playaction alot better with pulls etc but ultimately if a team is running alot, you are more likely to bite up on it.

If I see a pulling guard and I'm a DE I may try to shoot that gap or whatever depending on my scheme cause I'm guessing run. When in fact it could be a play fake.

DraftSavant
01-24-2012, 06:17 PM
This seems to be from the same school of thought run to set up the play action. It doesn't work like that. You just need to be able to sell the run action. DL read keys.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Same with LBs.

There's a difference between "run-action" and "play-action." DL and LBs don't watch the backfield action. Understand this concept, people.

"Pulling" for a play-action pass (or using pass pro concepts that mirror some of your running plays) really helps, but the key is the offensive line. If they stand up, the defense is going to bail. If they fire out, the D will fly up like it's run, even if your runningback has only rushed for 2 yards all game.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 06:19 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Same with LBs.

There's a difference between "run-action" and "play-action." DL and LBs don't watch the backfield action. Understand this concept, people.

Of course not. They'd be ******. You need to read the OL. In the NFL they are very creative with playaction. If it didn't work they wouldn't use it.

DraftSavant
01-24-2012, 06:20 PM
Ninja edited you.

DraftSavant
01-24-2012, 06:21 PM
Of course not. They'd be ******. You need to read the OL. In the NFL they are very creative with playaction. If it didn't work they wouldn't use it.

There's a difference between run-action and play-action. Learn it.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 06:30 PM
There's a difference between run-action and play-action. Learn it.

I know what you mean but to me they're pretty hand in hand nowadays lol.

The fundamental remains... If you are running well or poor effects it.

bored of education
01-24-2012, 06:36 PM
There have been some nerds saying a team that runs well are rarely ever the best the best PA/RA team rather the better PA/RA teams are those with the best o-line units and coaches.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 06:38 PM
There have been some nerds saying a team that runs well are rarely ever the best the best PA/RA team rather the better PA/RA teams are those with the best o-line units and coaches.

I actually would believe that. I think what DS and you are saying is true. I just can't fathom a team being very effective running the ball not playing some role in it as well.

bored of education
01-24-2012, 06:42 PM
I actually would believe that. I think what DS and you are saying is true. I just can't fathom a team being very effective running the ball not playing some role in it as well.

IF you give BJGE 20 carries and he rushes for 45 yards it will not prevent a team from biting on the play action. it will be mainly because of the line's ability to sell it.

BradysKnee
01-24-2012, 06:46 PM
IF you give BJGE 20 carries and he rushes for 45 yards it will not prevent a team from biting on the play action. it will be mainly because of the line's ability to sell it.

Yes that is obviously a huge part of it. But if you have BJGE 20 carries for 118 yards. It certainly adds to that.

scottyboy
01-25-2012, 03:29 AM
as scared as I am of wilfork, i'm that much not afraid of BJGE. hopefully i'm not jinxing it but like....come on

BradysKnee
01-25-2012, 06:30 AM
as scared as I am of wilfork, i'm that much not afraid of BJGE. hopefully i'm not jinxing it but like....come on

BJGE and co aren't special but the OL is well coached and is capable of great run blocking.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 06:32 AM
At least with BJGE you're safe from fumbles. Not having a fumble in his pro career is pretty awesome! Even though it has been a short career.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 07:03 AM
I said it a few pages back, BGE's no fumble streak is impressive but he's a very, very average back all around. He'll churn out some yardage if the blocking is there but he's far from a dominant player.

I'd really like to see the Pats get Woodhead more involved in the old Kevin Faulk role. He just dropped off the face of the earth production wise this year and I'm not 100% sure why. That squirmy little back out of the backfield has always been a huge part of the Patriots success starting with Faulk back in the day and evolving into Woodhead last year.

Now this year...nada.

BradysKnee
01-25-2012, 07:33 AM
I said it a few pages back, BGE's no fumble streak is impressive but he's a very, very average back all around. He'll churn out some yardage if the blocking is there but he's far from a dominant player.

I'd really like to see the Pats get Woodhead more involved in the old Kevin Faulk role. He just dropped off the face of the earth production wise this year and I'm not 100% sure why. That squirmy little back out of the backfield has always been a huge part of the Patriots success starting with Faulk back in the day and evolving into Woodhead last year.

Now this year...nada.

Yeah and you know, I don't think its Woodhead. They just haven't been using him. Screens etc have slowly faded out from our offense for some reason with RBs. We have gotten a little too TE happy. I'd love to see Woodhead featured a bit more especially if NY is going to have to match him up with a LB.

bigbluedefense
01-25-2012, 07:47 AM
The 2 most successful defensive gameplans against the Patriots have been last year by the Jets in the playoffs and this year's AFCCG with Baltimore.

If you notice both games, they shared a similar gameplan: Baltimore and NYJ both crowded the middle of the field with defenders and gambled on the Patriots inability to beat their CBs deep in 1 on 1 matchups. Both safeties would hover around 15 to 20 yards beyond the LOS and play the crossing routes/TE routes up the seam.

Both teams played nickel and would cede the run game in favor of stopping the passing attack of their 2 TE sets.

So I expect Fewell to run a similar scheme. I also expect a lot of concepts from the Pats where they line up both TEs wide to counter this.

It's going to be a great chess match. Let's not forget, the Giants just went against VD and Walker, so they are familiar with defending the 2 TE set.

Also, on the other side, I think you all are selling the Patriots a little short. Every time Eli plays the Pats, they do a great job of defending him. I don't know what it is, but Bellichick knows something about the Mannings that nobody else knows, bc he knows how to confuse them. When we played the Pats this year, we were scoreless at half. Think about that. And they didn't have Brandon Spikes, and I believe they didn't have Patrick Chung either.

Those 2 additions have greatly improved their defense. Also, Ballard is not healthy at all, he was a complete non factor vs the 49ers, and Mario is still hurt too. He has been a nonfactor for most of the 2nd half of the season.

The key to beating us is stopping Nicks and Cruz. If you can take them both out of the game, we're done offensively. The 49ers took them out with a lot of Cover 2. To their credit, they have the linebackers to pull this off. The Pats do not.

It will be a close game. We match up well with them, but they are scrappy.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 07:53 AM
It will be a close game. We match up well with them, but they are scrappy.

Whoever would have thought we'd be describing a Belichick/Brady Pats team as "scrappy?"

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Things like this are why I always say I'd take Belichick as my coach if I needed to win a game:

As Cundiff ran onto the field, Belichick motioned toward the side judge, which is what coaches do when they plan to try an icing timeout. But Belichick never called the icing timeout.

Badass.

bigbluedefense
01-25-2012, 08:08 AM
Beating Bellichick and Brady twice in 1 season is going to be really tough.

I like how we match up with them, but I'm very nervous.

BradysKnee
01-25-2012, 08:08 AM
Things like this are why I always say I'd take Belichick as my coach if I needed to win a game:



Badass.

Yeah I also like how he didn't celebrate right away as he looked for flags on the field. No one else even bothered.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 08:10 AM
The closer we get to the game the more excited im getting! At first i was like "wow really cant be arsed to watch this game" but now im really looking forward to it.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:11 AM
Beating Bellichick and Brady twice in 1 season is going to be really tough.

I like how we match up with them, but I'm very nervous.

Aye. I don't want anyone to misconstrue my complaining about the Patriots being favored for guaranteeing a loss or anything like that. I feel like the Giants are the better team, but the beauty of the NFL is that the better team doesn't always win.

Belichick is a brilliant coach headed for the HoF, and will forever be mentioned with Walsh and Noll and Lombardi as the greatest of all time.You'd be stupid to ever count out a team coached by him.

Still...the Pats shouldn't be favored.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 08:14 AM
I wonder where Belicick would be if he didn't have Tom Brady at QB...

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:16 AM
I wonder where Belicick would be if he didn't have Tom Brady at QB...

He'd have found someone else. Do you hold it against Walsh for finding Joe Montana? Sometimes you just find a perfect fit. It shouldn't be counted against anyone.

Also, at least for their early last decade success, Belichick was far more crucial. Brady stepped up when he had to, but they wouldn't have even been in those Superbowls without Belichick's picture perfect defensive scheming to stop guys like Peyton Manning in the playoffs every year. Belichick was in Peyton's head.

Bigburt63
01-25-2012, 08:26 AM
The spread had to start with the pats by 3 to entice people to take the points. As time goes by, I'm sure it will drop. Personally I think the giants are or at least should be favored. They are a matchup nightmare for the patriots on both aides of the ball. Does the guarantee a victory? Of course not, this is the NFL. There is a lot of talk about how the giants look like 2007 all over again though, justified or not

bigbluedefense
01-25-2012, 08:30 AM
To be fair, we were 9-7 at the end of the day. That has to count for something.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:32 AM
To be fair, we were 9-7 at the end of the day. That has to count for something.

The team that started 7-7 isn't even on the same planet as the team who showed up for the playoffs.

And that's pretty much entirely thanks to the fact that the coordinators got less ******** and Eli is clutch as hell.

Jughead10
01-25-2012, 08:33 AM
I think the spread is off but not by much. I would have thought it would have been -2 or -1.5 by the Pats. Favored but not by a FG. Especially with the neutral field and perfect conditions.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 08:33 AM
He'd have found someone else. Do you hold it against Walsh for finding Joe Montana? Sometimes you just find a perfect fit. It shouldn't be counted against anyone.

Also, at least for their early last decade success, Belichick was far more crucial. Brady stepped up when he had to, but they wouldn't have even been in those Superbowls without Belichick's picture perfect defensive scheming to stop guys like Peyton Manning in the playoffs every year. Belichick was in Peyton's head.

i know hes a great coach, im just stiring ;)

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:35 AM
i know hes a great coach, im just stiring ;)

To be most effective at stirring the pot, you need to make backhanded compliments or really low powered disses to get everyone else arguing.

For instance, had you have said something like "How many playoff wins does Belichick have without Brady again?" it would have been more effective.

bigbluedefense
01-25-2012, 08:37 AM
The team that started 7-7 isn't even on the same planet as the team who showed up for the playoffs.

And that's pretty much entirely thanks to the fact that the coordinators got less ******** and Eli is clutch as hell.

Has a 9-7 team ever won the SB though? We have that going against us.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 08:38 AM
To be most effective at stirring the pot, you need to make backhanded compliments or really low powered disses to get everyone else arguing.

For instance, had you have said something like "How many playoff wins does Belichick have without Brady again?" it would have been more effective.

And it would of been better if there were a few more people online. A few Patriots fans maybe...

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:40 AM
Has a 9-7 team ever won the SB though? We have that going against us.

There's a first time for everything. I'd be less worried about that than I would say, the fact that your run game was the worst in the NFL this year.

It's been less of a handicap for teams lately with the Packers, Saints, Colts and Cardinals the last few years all being ranked at or near the very bottom, but at least those teams could pick up a short yardage first down when they absolutely had to.

That's one of my big reservations of the Giants. You're a horrible short yardage team.

Bigburt63
01-25-2012, 08:43 AM
Has a team with the 31st ranked defense ever won a super bowl ( and forthw record I'm not much into rankings that take yards as the sole factor, but the point remains)? As BB said, there is a first time for everything.

The giants were really the last place rushing team? I know Eli's was winging it around more often but didn't think the run game was that low ranked. Might not be as big a factor if they have as much success throwing as most believe they will.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:48 AM
Has a team with the 31st ranked defense ever won a super bowl ( and forthw record I'm not much into rankings that take yards as the sole factor, but the point remains)? As BB said, there is a first time for everything.

The giants were really the last place rushing team? I know Eli's was winging it around more often but didn't think the run game was that low ranked. Might not be as big a factor if they have as much success throwing as most believe they will.

Dead last.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true

I will say this. With the way the Pats defense snuffed out the Broncos and Ravens run games (1st and 10th in the league) I doubt they'll have much trouble with the Giants dead last run game.

But that may not matter if they can't cover Cruz and Nicks or get pressure on Eli.

Nalej
01-25-2012, 08:52 AM
How have the OTs of the giants been this year? I read that their left side, Diehl, was terrible.
Any truth to that? With Vince clogging up the middle, edge pressure could go a long way in slowing down Cruz/Nicks.

Jughead10
01-25-2012, 08:56 AM
How have the OTs of the giants been this year? I read that their left side, Diehl, was terrible.
Any truth to that? With Vince clogging up the middle, edge pressure could go a long way in slowing down Cruz/Nicks.

I'd say Diehl is average. We had Beatty at LT who was terrible until I'm not sure what week. Somewhere in the middle of the season. I think Beatty played when we beat the Pats. I'd still say Diehl is better than McKenzie. McKenzie has trouble with speed.

Our run game is strange. It is literally plasy of 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 35. yet the 35 yard plays have all game in key situations. We've been lucky in that way.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 08:57 AM
How have the OTs of the giants been this year? I read that their left side, Diehl, was terrible.
Any truth to that? With Vince clogging up the middle, edge pressure could go a long way in slowing down Cruz/Nicks.

Edge pressure COULD go a long way...I have about 5% faith in anyone on the Patriots regularly providing it though. The 49ers sacked Eli 6 times but they have Aldon and Justin Smith, plus a great overall blitzing LB corps.

The Patriots have...none...of that. In fact, other than Wilfork, I don't think any member of the Patriots front 7 would start over any member of the 49ers front 7.

You might get lucky and get one of Mark Anderson's patented "overun the play completely but have the QB hold the ball for a while so you get a 2nd shot at him from behind" sack.

Bigburt63
01-25-2012, 08:58 AM
Dead last.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true

I will say this. With the way the Pats defense snuffed out the Broncos and Ravens run games (1st and 10th in the league) I doubt they'll have much trouble with the Giants dead last run game.

But that may not matter if they can't cover Cruz and Nicks or get pressure on Eli.

Obviously my biggest fear. To stop the run the last 2 games we had been sacrificing some speed, bringing in deaderick at end over ninkovich. A prime example ofbhowbthis does not get pressure on the qb was when flaccid would roll out. The 280 de simply was not fast enough to catch him. I understand Eli doesn't roll out much ( at least to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) but putting ninkovich at end an bringing in a guy like fletcher or even another db is going to have to happen this week. Hopefully this won't soften the defense any to the run.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Obviously my biggest fear. To stop the run the last 2 games we had been sacrificing some speed, bringing in deaderick at end over ninkovich. A prime example ofbhowbthis does not get pressure on the qb was when flaccid would roll out. The 280 de simply was not fast enough to catch him. I understand Eli doesn't roll out much ( at least to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) but putting ninkovich at end an bringing in a guy like fletcher or even another db is going to have to happen this week. Hopefully this won't soften the defense any to the run.

Eli doesn't even need to do much rolling out to beat you in that case. Three 300+ pound DTs as your only down lineman probably means a lot of time in the pocket for Eli, and he'll pick you apart.

Cruz is such a slippery little ****** who doesn't stay covered for long. If he finds an opening to sit in and Eli has time, Eli will hit him.

The Pats will have to get some pressure and I don't completely trust the pass rushing talent they have to do that consistently.

Nalej
01-25-2012, 09:18 AM
While I tend to agree with you on M. Anderson, I don't think you're being totally fair.
He blows against the run but he's done a decent job of applying edge pressure on the qb.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 09:19 AM
While I tend to agree with you on M. Anderson, I don't think you're being totally fair.
He blows against the run but he's done a decent job of applying edge pressure on the qb.

Yeah...wait until your team decides not to upgrade the position and continues to try and roll with him as the primary pass rusher.

"Blows against the run" is also an understatement.

Nalej
01-25-2012, 09:22 AM
I gave up on BB upgrading the pass rush a long time ago.
I did like it better when A. Carter was healthy and Anderson only came in on obvious passing situations.

FlyingElvis
01-25-2012, 10:02 AM
ESPN is garbage, but it's annoying. You'd think these teams were in their 2007 forms with the way they talk.

At the very, very least it should be a toss up. If not for gambling purposes, than at least in the way people (read: ESPN) talk about it. The "3 points for homefield" is kind of meaningless in a neutral site game as well.
lol . . . you really can't let the line go, can you? It's not for homefield, it's because a 13 win team is playing a 9 win team. If the Patriots were underdogs people would be flooding the books. Personally, the line is perfect for anyone who is smart enough to actually try and win - take the points! The Giants will not be held in check. The game will most likely be a last possession FG and betting on the Gmen will win loot.
To be fair, we were 9-7 at the end of the day. That has to count for something.

^ Exactly.

Things like this are why I always say I'd take Belichick as my coach if I needed to win a game:


As Cundiff ran onto the field, Belichick motioned toward the side judge, which is what coaches do when they plan to try an icing timeout. But Belichick never called the icing timeout.



Badass.
I was watching the clock tick expecting a Ravens TO and was muttering away at my TV that NE better NOT call a TO to ice the kicker b/c they already screwed themselves worse than any TO would do.

ElectricEye
01-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Yeah...wait until your team decides not to upgrade the position and continues to try and roll with him as the primary pass rusher.

"Blows against the run" is also an understatement.

Anderson has really been an upgrade over what we had before. That's more an indictment of us, but he's made some plays that have been relevant. He played really well down the stretch of the regular season and against the Broncos. He got pressure on Flacco in spots too, he just didn't finish. The sack he got had more to do with Wilfork, as he got run wide and ran completely to the otherside of the play and blindsided Flacco as Wilfork was about to get him. I'm no going to knock him too much though. He's clearly a limited player, but he's really done some nice things. Inconsistent and he's cost us some too, but compared to what we're used to I'll take that. I pray that no one in the NFL has to deal with Tully Banta-Cain again.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 10:12 AM
That's good that he's better than Tully Banta-Cain. That's improving your grade from an F to a D- at least.

ElectricEye
01-25-2012, 10:15 AM
I'll take it. Anderson plays have come in moments that have been relevant too, as opposed to Tully's obligatory blowout sacks against the Bills. Anderson and Carter on third down was great while it lasted.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 10:18 AM
I took it when he was a rookie who got 13 sacks as a situational pass rusher. Then when we made him a starter he was horrific. The next time he actually sheds a block will be the first time he sheds a block (not counting plays where he gets blocked like 10 yard behind the QB and his blocker just gives up.)

And I'm pretty sure he has fewer tackles on non-QBs than Deion "Don't Hurt Me" Sanders....

He's a frustrating player, is my point basically.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Which game was it where he got about 4 sacks but no one them were from his effort, they just fell into his lap. That was f****** annoying, because he was getting credit for it and shows how much stats are taking over the game.

Bigburt63
01-25-2012, 10:27 AM
Limited but as EE said, a huge upgrade over tbc and whoever else we threw out there. He makes a few plays a game and while he is a liability against the run he can be covered up there a bit by others. Every now and then he makes a tackle look stupid and I'll take that (limited) output over nothing. Tbc might have even delivered the rare negative pass rush: qbs feel more comfortable when he rushes.

Nalej
01-25-2012, 10:47 AM
Which game was it where he got about 4 sacks but no one them were from his effort, they just fell into his lap. That was f****** annoying, because he was getting credit for it and shows how much stats are taking over the game.

That was A.Carter was the one with 4 sacks.
M.Anderson was a beast in that game too though.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 10:57 AM
My Mark Anderson hate aside, I think the Giants have the 4 best pass rushers in the game. Seriously.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 11:14 AM
That was A.Carter was the one with 4 sacks.
M.Anderson was a beast in that game too though.

Oh yeah haha. Still, same thing and really annoying.

Cudders
01-25-2012, 02:25 PM
The more I think about it, the more I love and canít wait for this game. It has the potential to be a classic chess match. Iím excited to see what each tactician brings to Indianapolis with them.

First off, New England has the talent to put up some points on this defense. Thatís not even a question. If Gronkowski gets a clean bill of health, Iím even more confident of that fact. I know Tom wasnít terrific against the Ravens, but I just canít see him following a bad game with another bad game. Heís too motivated and too special. This isnít the same kind of record-breaking, home run-hitting spectacle the Giants derailed in Super Bowl XLII. Itís still a potent offense that can string together a bunch of well-timed base hits and sustain drives with the best of them though.

Iím expecting a ton of 12 personnel and three wide, two-tight end sets because thatís their bread and butter. Thatís when this offense is most dangerous and multiple. Gronkowski and Hernandez are match-up nightmares for NFL defenses across the board. I know Baltimore held them somewhat in check, and deserves some credit for it, but letís be honest. Brady just wasnít Brady that day. He was missing throws he usually completes on the first drive of preseason. Gronkowski is hands down the best all-around tight end in the game and Hernandez is a serious receiving threat that can eat leftover coverages alive. And the fact that both tight ends line up all over the field makes it even harder to scheme against. Add route guru Wes Welker to the equation and the Patriots have a short spread that operates with surgical precision when No. 12 is firing.

Thereís been a lot of talk about New England using their running game to neutralize the Giantsí fearsome pass rush. I donít think thatís the smartest approach because itís a fairly dramatic philosophical shift from their staple offensive concepts. Sure, it needs to be an important part of the game plan for balance reasons and there are certain elements of their run game the Patriots can use to attack that front four, but it shouldnít be the go-to option to erase it. When the Patriots sprinkle in their running game, I anticipate a good amount of draws, traps, and whams. Each has their advantages in dealing with an aggressive defensive line and New England has featured all of them. I still think calling a no-huddle, up-tempo game with hard run-action is the best approach though.

In addition, Belichick loves using plus-sized tight end sets to gain traction on the ground. Iím positive at some point that the Patriots will substitute Nate Solder in at tight end with Gronkowski and then split Hernandez out wide. Itís a standard wrinkle of theirs and packs a strong punch at the point of attack. I think the true impact of the running backs, and itís been said in here, could come in the passing game though. After endless hours of film sessions, each team has a remarkably clear and meticulously documented picture of the otherís tendencies. What they like to call out of very specific formations, what they like to run in certain down and distances, what they favor in need-to-convert situations, etc. An underrated part of Super Bowl preparations is which team draws up effective tendency-breakers. Danny Woodhead has been invisible after blowing up last year because New Englandís screen game has been phased out. It wouldnít surprise me if Belichick chooses to re-introduce that wrinkle in Indianapolis or starts slinging it around out of his three-ďtight endĒ sets. Heís shown heís capable of doing both.

But the thing that worries me most about the Patriotsí offense is their lack of vertical explosiveness. This teamís receivers are full of zone-busters. In order to be complete, this offense needs a deep man-beater. I know Ochocinco was brought in to be that target, but he still hasnít adapted to the choice route part of their game. The Jets and Ravens have put forth a rough blueprint for hindering the Patriots. Get in their face at the line and clog the short crossing routes. In zone situations, rush four and drop five wide underneath with two deep up top. Make them challenge down the field with Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Julian Edelman, and Matthew Slater. If New England succeeds at that, then a tip of the cap to them is in order. Just force them into doing what is unusual for them.

In that regard, I think the Giants have a solid chance at executing it. Their jumbo nickel sub-package should see the field a ton. Substituting Deon Grant into that roving linebacker role in nickel situations extends the Giants rangier coverage abilities without sacrificing too much in terms of run support. That package was conceived with offenses like the Patriotsí in mind. Nickel linebackers Michael Boley and Jacquian Williams are smooth athletes in space that can turn-and-run with their tight ends. Those are one-on-one match-ups that New England would feel comfortable with, for sure, but both defenders are better equipped for sticking with them than most. And Corey Webster is a premium, top-shelf corner without question when heís put in positions that suit his skill set. Heís been miscast at certain points throughout his career, but he thrives in press-man situations. Heís tough, uses good length and technique to frustrate and re-route receivers at the line, and possesses the fluid, loose hips to keep tight to his man on deeper patterns. I love Websterís game so much. It will be interesting to see if Perry Fewell largely deploys Webster to shadow Welker around the field. If Webster can eliminate some of Welkerís effectiveness himself, it makes answering the tight end riddle that much easier.

The most critical component (and most discussed) of the Giants defense is their front four though. In Super Bowl XLII, their pass rush terrorized the Patriots and kept that offense in check all evening. But there is a stark difference between these two offenses. That Patriots offense was predicated on downfield explosiveness. It featured five- and seven-step drops with slow-developing routes. In 2008, the Giants were able to get to Brady as he hit the top of his drop. This Patriots offense is built toward utilizing big bodies and smart receivers in the middle of the field. Therefore, it is a lot more flexible in its drop depth. In 2012, the Giants are going to see more three-step drops and quick passes incorporated into the game plan in an effort to slow the rush.

Now, that doesnít mean the Giants front four canít be successful in this game because that NASCAR package is flat-out disgusting. I donít care if Belichick keeps Solder in pass protection and asks Gronkowski to chip before releasing into his route because that offensive line is still going to have its hands full in those scenarios. Even more so if the Giants mix up and roll through their coverage shells behind that rush. Containing four pass rushers of that caliber is a tough task. New Englandís best method to minimize their exposure to the NASCAR package is to remain on-schedule on offense. If the G-Men can just pin their ears back and get after it, itís going to be tough to handle for the Pats.

On the flip side, I donít see how the Patriots defense slows Eli Manning and that offense. Bill Belichick is a brilliant defensive mind, but I just donít see the talent to pull it off. New Englandís been stout in their run defense down the stretch, but New York wonít be leaning on their ground game for much more than balance purposes. And Vince Wilfork has been the lone monster for Belichick, but I donít see Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride being as nonchalant in their protection schemes as Cam Cameron was. Not for a game of this magnitude. There were a lot of occasions where Wilfork was left in prime positions to make things happen for his defense and he did to his credit. At this point, protection schemes should be geared toward containing Wilfork and daring another person to step their game up and capitalize on it. For me, I donít see another person in their compliment of pass rushers that scares me of doing that. This isnít a stalwart offensive line though, so I suppose itís plausible for someone else to have a big game. It would surprise me though given the pressure Eli endured and persevered through last week. And I expect the Giants are content with riding Eli to the final second, so barring an uncharacteristic game, I donít see how that back seven competes with this group of receivers.

That said, I think at some point on their first drive weíll see the Giants come out with an unbalanced, shotgun formation. The deeper New England has to go in the backfield to match-up, the greater it benefits New York. Once again, Julian Edelman was on the field as a defensive back on a potential Super Bowl-deciding drive and he was locked up in coverage against Anquan Boldin. Itís impossible to hide someone like that. If Edelman finds the field, Eli will scan the field to find him and exploit that match-up for as long as he can. I expect the Giants to run bunch and mesh concepts to further test these green Patriot defensive backs. Iím sure Gilbride will unveil a new wrinkle or two that breaks their tendencies, too. Overall, between the twenties, I donít see New York having much problem moving the chains at allÖ

ÖAnd thatís the caveat for New England. Their red zone defense. Itís been stingier than their total defense all season long and it needs to show up again big-time. New York is an anemic short-distance team and that enables New England to drop seven or eight defenders into coverage behind a line of wide two-gappers. With windows shrinking, Eli will be forced to hit stick throws so long as the Patriots play for body presence or the Giantsí running game will have to show the ability to pound the rock when the opportunity presents itself. If New England holds New York to field goals instead of touchdowns, it gives their offense valuable breathing room and magnifies their margin for error a little.

As it stands, I favor the Giants at this premature date. But the Patriots shouldnít be disregarded. New England poses their threats. I just think that Tom Brady is going to have to be close to perfect for them to pull it out. And, luckily for us as non-Giant fans, he absolutely has that capability.

Canít wait.

Jughead10
01-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Great post above. Only thing about our big nickel is that Rolle actually plays the slot or rover position more than Grant. Grant often worries me in the deep safety roll, but like you said, the Patriots deep game isn't a strength. I'd rather have Rolle man up on Hernandez out of the slot or even if he lines up in backfield.

DraftSavant
01-25-2012, 02:39 PM
That was a ******* excellent post, sir.

scottyboy
01-25-2012, 02:50 PM
I feel that every one of Cudders' 85 posts are better than 99%, if not all, of mine.

FlyingElvis
01-25-2012, 02:59 PM
I feel that every one of Cudders' 85 posts are better than 99%, if not all, of mine.

You are not alone.

BradysKnee
01-25-2012, 03:21 PM
Can't put it any better than above.

BeerBaron
01-25-2012, 03:23 PM
As it stands, I favor the Giants at this premature date. But the Patriots shouldn’t be disregarded. New England poses their threats. I just think that Tom Brady is going to have to be close to perfect for them to pull it out. And, luckily for us as non-Giant fans, he absolutely has that capability.

Can’t wait.

Mirrors my feelings exactly.

SuperPacker
01-25-2012, 03:26 PM
Cudders, will you marry me?

ElectricEye
01-25-2012, 03:32 PM
When I grow up, I want to be Cudders. I wasted about four hours watching the game again and writing some thoughts in the team forum and couldn't say what I wanted to get at as well as he did.

Giantsfan1080
01-25-2012, 05:07 PM
Well I'll just say it here also but that was an excellent post. Can't find fault with much of it at all.

scottyboy
01-25-2012, 05:08 PM
The ONLY flaw is the lack of mention that both teams have a rutgers corner. That's it though

Bigburt63
01-25-2012, 06:44 PM
The ONLY flaw is the lack of mention that both teams have a rutgers corner. That's it though

2 Rutgers corners for the patriots.

Plat
01-25-2012, 10:51 PM
Cudders with a grade A post...

MT2314
01-26-2012, 04:21 AM
The more I think about it, the more I love and canít wait for this game. It has the potential to be a classic chess match. Iím excited to see what each tactician brings to Indianapolis with them.

First off, New England has the talent to put up some points on this defense. Thatís not even a question. If Gronkowski gets a clean bill of health, Iím even more confident of that fact. I know Tom wasnít terrific against the Ravens, but I just canít see him following a bad game with another bad game. Heís too motivated and too special. This isnít the same kind of record-breaking, home run-hitting spectacle the Giants derailed in Super Bowl XLII. Itís still a potent offense that can string together a bunch of well-timed base hits and sustain drives with the best of them though.

Iím expecting a ton of 12 personnel and three wide, two-tight end sets because thatís their bread and butter. Thatís when this offense is most dangerous and multiple. Gronkowski and Hernandez are match-up nightmares for NFL defenses across the board. I know Baltimore held them somewhat in check, and deserves some credit for it, but letís be honest. Brady just wasnít Brady that day. He was missing throws he usually completes on the first drive of preseason. Gronkowski is hands down the best all-around tight end in the game and Hernandez is a serious receiving threat that can eat leftover coverages alive. And the fact that both tight ends line up all over the field makes it even harder to scheme against. Add route guru Wes Welker to the equation and the Patriots have a short spread that operates with surgical precision when No. 12 is firing.

Thereís been a lot of talk about New England using their running game to neutralize the Giantsí fearsome pass rush. I donít think thatís the smartest approach because itís a fairly dramatic philosophical shift from their staple offensive concepts. Sure, it needs to be an important part of the game plan for balance reasons and there are certain elements of their run game the Patriots can use to attack that front four, but it shouldnít be the go-to option to erase it. When the Patriots sprinkle in their running game, I anticipate a good amount of draws, traps, and whams. Each has their advantages in dealing with an aggressive defensive line and New England has featured all of them. I still think calling a no-huddle, up-tempo game with hard run-action is the best approach though.

In addition, Belichick loves using plus-sized tight end sets to gain traction on the ground. Iím positive at some point that the Patriots will substitute Nate Solder in at tight end with Gronkowski and then split Hernandez out wide. Itís a standard wrinkle of theirs and packs a strong punch at the point of attack. I think the true impact of the running backs, and itís been said in here, could come in the passing game though. After endless hours of film sessions, each team has a remarkably clear and meticulously documented picture of the otherís tendencies. What they like to call out of very specific formations, what they like to run in certain down and distances, what they favor in need-to-convert situations, etc. An underrated part of Super Bowl preparations is which team draws up effective tendency-breakers. Danny Woodhead has been invisible after blowing up last year because New Englandís screen game has been phased out. It wouldnít surprise me if Belichick chooses to re-introduce that wrinkle in Indianapolis or starts slinging it around out of his three-ďtight endĒ sets. Heís shown heís capable of doing both.

But the thing that worries me most about the Patriotsí offense is their lack of vertical explosiveness. This teamís receivers are full of zone-busters. In order to be complete, this offense needs a deep man-beater. I know Ochocinco was brought in to be that target, but he still hasnít adapted to the choice route part of their game. The Jets and Ravens have put forth a rough blueprint for hindering the Patriots. Get in their face at the line and clog the short crossing routes. In zone situations, rush four and drop five wide underneath with two deep up top. Make them challenge down the field with Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Julian Edelman, and Matthew Slater. If New England succeeds at that, then a tip of the cap to them is in order. Just force them into doing what is unusual for them.

In that regard, I think the Giants have a solid chance at executing it. Their jumbo nickel sub-package should see the field a ton. Substituting Deon Grant into that roving linebacker role in nickel situations extends the Giants rangier coverage abilities without sacrificing too much in terms of run support. That package was conceived with offenses like the Patriotsí in mind. Nickel linebackers Michael Boley and Jacquian Williams are smooth athletes in space that can turn-and-run with their tight ends. Those are one-on-one match-ups that New England would feel comfortable with, for sure, but both defenders are better equipped for sticking with them than most. And Corey Webster is a premium, top-shelf corner without question when heís put in positions that suit his skill set. Heís been miscast at certain points throughout his career, but he thrives in press-man situations. Heís tough, uses good length and technique to frustrate and re-route receivers at the line, and possesses the fluid, loose hips to keep tight to his man on deeper patterns. I love Websterís game so much. It will be interesting to see if Perry Fewell largely deploys Webster to shadow Welker around the field. If Webster can eliminate some of Welkerís effectiveness himself, it makes answering the tight end riddle that much easier.

The most critical component (and most discussed) of the Giants defense is their front four though. In Super Bowl XLII, their pass rush terrorized the Patriots and kept that offense in check all evening. But there is a stark difference between these two offenses. That Patriots offense was predicated on downfield explosiveness. It featured five- and seven-step drops with slow-developing routes. In 2008, the Giants were able to get to Brady as he hit the top of his drop. This Patriots offense is built toward utilizing big bodies and smart receivers in the middle of the field. Therefore, it is a lot more flexible in its drop depth. In 2012, the Giants are going to see more three-step drops and quick passes incorporated into the game plan in an effort to slow the rush.

Now, that doesnít mean the Giants front four canít be successful in this game because that NASCAR package is flat-out disgusting. I donít care if Belichick keeps Solder in pass protection and asks Gronkowski to chip before releasing into his route because that offensive line is still going to have its hands full in those scenarios. Even more so if the Giants mix up and roll through their coverage shells behind that rush. Containing four pass rushers of that caliber is a tough task. New Englandís best method to minimize their exposure to the NASCAR package is to remain on-schedule on offense. If the G-Men can just pin their ears back and get after it, itís going to be tough to handle for the Pats.

On the flip side, I donít see how the Patriots defense slows Eli Manning and that offense. Bill Belichick is a brilliant defensive mind, but I just donít see the talent to pull it off. New Englandís been stout in their run defense down the stretch, but New York wonít be leaning on their ground game for much more than balance purposes. And Vince Wilfork has been the lone monster for Belichick, but I donít see Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride being as nonchalant in their protection schemes as Cam Cameron was. Not for a game of this magnitude. There were a lot of occasions where Wilfork was left in prime positions to make things happen for his defense and he did to his credit. At this point, protection schemes should be geared toward containing Wilfork and daring another person to step their game up and capitalize on it. For me, I donít see another person in their compliment of pass rushers that scares me of doing that. This isnít a stalwart offensive line though, so I suppose itís plausible for someone else to have a big game. It would surprise me though given the pressure Eli endured and persevered through last week. And I expect the Giants are content with riding Eli to the final second, so barring an uncharacteristic game, I donít see how that back seven competes with this group of receivers.

That said, I think at some point on their first drive weíll see the Giants come out with an unbalanced, shotgun formation. The deeper New England has to go in the backfield to match-up, the greater it benefits New York. Once again, Julian Edelman was on the field as a defensive back on a potential Super Bowl-deciding drive and he was locked up in coverage against Anquan Boldin. Itís impossible to hide someone like that. If Edelman finds the field, Eli will scan the field to find him and exploit that match-up for as long as he can. I expect the Giants to run bunch and mesh concepts to further test these green Patriot defensive backs. Iím sure Gilbride will unveil a new wrinkle or two that breaks their tendencies, too. Overall, between the twenties, I donít see New York having much problem moving the chains at allÖ

ÖAnd thatís the caveat for New England. Their red zone defense. Itís been stingier than their total defense all season long and it needs to show up again big-time. New York is an anemic short-distance team and that enables New England to drop seven or eight defenders into coverage behind a line of wide two-gappers. With windows shrinking, Eli will be forced to hit stick throws so long as the Patriots play for body presence or the Giantsí running game will have to show the ability to pound the rock when the opportunity presents itself. If New England holds New York to field goals instead of touchdowns, it gives their offense valuable breathing room and magnifies their margin for error a little.

As it stands, I favor the Giants at this premature date. But the Patriots shouldnít be disregarded. New England poses their threats. I just think that Tom Brady is going to have to be close to perfect for them to pull it out. And, luckily for us as non-Giant fans, he absolutely has that capability.

Canít wait.

Nice write up. It was so fair and balanced I couldn't tell who you were rooting for? The last paragraph says you think the Giants will win .... so do I.

Blackluck
01-26-2012, 04:34 AM
Nevermind :)

P.S That is an awesome write up by Cudders, far and away the best thing I've read on the game

bigbluedefense
01-26-2012, 07:23 AM
Cudders, please post here more often. That was an excellent post.

He nailed it. That was awesome. He has a deep understanding of the Patriots schemes and I really appreciate that knowledge.

One of the more unnoticed aspects of both these teams are the complexity of both offenses. Both run a lot of run n shoot concepts, and run a lot of choice routes. The Pats are more multiple in their packages, the Giants are more multiple in their choice routes. It's 2 offensives that take similar concepts and runs them in a slightly different manner.

This truly will be a great chess match for all the reasons stated above.

To stop the Giants offense, you gotta stop Cruz and Nicks. It's easier said than done of course. Too much is being made out of our complimentary pieces, they are not that effective right now. Ballard is banged up and a complete non factor right now, and Mario is nursing a knee injury that has made him noneffective for most of the 2nd half of the season.

So basically, if you can force them to beat you, youre looking good bc they both haven't been entirely effective lately. It's all about Nicks and Cruz.

The 49ers were largely effective in stopping both in the 2nd half with a Cover 2 shell with Cruz being the focal point of the coverage in the slot. They put their best CB on him in the slot, pressed him, and the ILB would play that robber zone in the middle of the field to eliminate his routes in the slot. The deep safety would key on him on his side and pretty much leave the CB to fend for himself vs Mario.

On the other side, the Tampa 2 shell would eliminate Nicks. This was largely effective but to be fair, the 49ers have the linebackers to pull this off, I don't feel that the Pats can pull it off with the same effectiveness. Nor do the Pats have the pass rush with 4 guys to make it as effective.

Also, it needs to be noted that it's difficult to just eliminate both Cruz and Nicks in our offense bc of the choice route concepts we employ. The routes aren't set in stone. Those routes will adjust to what the defense is showing you. So you can't just assume Nicks is going deep, he might go square in on a Tampa coverage, he might go skinny, etc. So the 2 WRs will adjust on the fly to whatever coverages they face. And both, along with Eli directing them, are very good at these adjustments. Which is why it's so difficult to contain both.

You can draw up concepts to eliminate both, but adjustments will be made in the choice routes to attack those concepts, and then adjustments to those concepts will be made to attack those choices.

So basically, this is a chess match. And in all likelihood, you will see both offenses and defenses employ different gameplans and methods per quarter to keep the other team on their toes.

Adjustments vs adjustments vs adjustments. That's what this game will be about. It's going to be a big time chess match vs 2 coaches who do a great job at preparing. Coughlin vs Bellichick will be very enjoyable to watch from a X and O perspective.

Giantsfan1080
01-26-2012, 08:20 AM
So the post by Cudders made it to a very famous Giants message board. Who is chris r?

BeerBaron
01-26-2012, 08:21 AM
Coughlin vs Bellichick will be very enjoyable to watch from a X and O perspective.

I give the advantage to Belichick if all else were equal. Luckily for Coughlin, I think he has the better overall team talent.

The fun part for me is seeing if Belichick (and Brady by extension) can overcome that.

Giantsfan1080
01-26-2012, 08:32 AM
It would be more Gilbride vs. Belichick as the chess matchup.

bigbluedefense
01-26-2012, 11:56 AM
I think on gameday, it's Gilbride vs Belichick and Fewell vs Bellichick (let's be honest, Bellichick runs everything on their end).

The 2 weeks prior to gameday though, I think Coughlin plays a big part in creating the blueprint to execute on game day.

yodabear
01-26-2012, 11:56 AM
Can't believe I am saying this, but.................









Go Patriots.

GRONK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/rob-gronkowski.jpg

GRONK SMASH!

BeerBaron
01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I think on gameday, it's Gilbride vs Belichick and Fewell vs Bellichick (let's be honest, Bellichick runs everything on their end).

The 2 weeks prior to gameday though, I think Coughlin plays a big part in creating the blueprint to execute on game day.

I still say advantage Belichick. His problem is having the lesser talent at most positions.

bigbluedefense
01-26-2012, 12:07 PM
I still say advantage Belichick. His problem is having the lesser talent at most positions.

Bellichick wins that matchup vs any coach in the league. Period. He's the best coach of our generation.

We have to hope our talent can trump all the Xs and Os that will go down on Sunday.

critesy
01-26-2012, 04:13 PM
The more I think about it, the more I love and canít wait for this game. It has the potential to be a classic chess match. Iím excited to see what each tactician brings to Indianapolis with them.

First off, New England has the talent to put up some points on this defense. Thatís not even a question. If Gronkowski gets a clean bill of health, Iím even more confident of that fact. I know Tom wasnít terrific against the Ravens, but I just canít see him following a bad game with another bad game. Heís too motivated and too special. This isnít the same kind of record-breaking, home run-hitting spectacle the Giants derailed in Super Bowl XLII. Itís still a potent offense that can string together a bunch of well-timed base hits and sustain drives with the best of them though.

Iím expecting a ton of 12 personnel and three wide, two-tight end sets because thatís their bread and butter. Thatís when this offense is most dangerous and multiple. Gronkowski and Hernandez are match-up nightmares for NFL defenses across the board. I know Baltimore held them somewhat in check, and deserves some credit for it, but letís be honest. Brady just wasnít Brady that day. He was missing throws he usually completes on the first drive of preseason. Gronkowski is hands down the best all-around tight end in the game and Hernandez is a serious receiving threat that can eat leftover coverages alive. And the fact that both tight ends line up all over the field makes it even harder to scheme against. Add route guru Wes Welker to the equation and the Patriots have a short spread that operates with surgical precision when No. 12 is firing.

Thereís been a lot of talk about New England using their running game to neutralize the Giantsí fearsome pass rush. I donít think thatís the smartest approach because itís a fairly dramatic philosophical shift from their staple offensive concepts. Sure, it needs to be an important part of the game plan for balance reasons and there are certain elements of their run game the Patriots can use to attack that front four, but it shouldnít be the go-to option to erase it. When the Patriots sprinkle in their running game, I anticipate a good amount of draws, traps, and whams. Each has their advantages in dealing with an aggressive defensive line and New England has featured all of them. I still think calling a no-huddle, up-tempo game with hard run-action is the best approach though.

In addition, Belichick loves using plus-sized tight end sets to gain traction on the ground. Iím positive at some point that the Patriots will substitute Nate Solder in at tight end with Gronkowski and then split Hernandez out wide. Itís a standard wrinkle of theirs and packs a strong punch at the point of attack. I think the true impact of the running backs, and itís been said in here, could come in the passing game though. After endless hours of film sessions, each team has a remarkably clear and meticulously documented picture of the otherís tendencies. What they like to call out of very specific formations, what they like to run in certain down and distances, what they favor in need-to-convert situations, etc. An underrated part of Super Bowl preparations is which team draws up effective tendency-breakers. Danny Woodhead has been invisible after blowing up last year because New Englandís screen game has been phased out. It wouldnít surprise me if Belichick chooses to re-introduce that wrinkle in Indianapolis or starts slinging it around out of his three-ďtight endĒ sets. Heís shown heís capable of doing both.

But the thing that worries me most about the Patriotsí offense is their lack of vertical explosiveness. This teamís receivers are full of zone-busters. In order to be complete, this offense needs a deep man-beater. I know Ochocinco was brought in to be that target, but he still hasnít adapted to the choice route part of their game. The Jets and Ravens have put forth a rough blueprint for hindering the Patriots. Get in their face at the line and clog the short crossing routes. In zone situations, rush four and drop five wide underneath with two deep up top. Make them challenge down the field with Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Julian Edelman, and Matthew Slater. If New England succeeds at that, then a tip of the cap to them is in order. Just force them into doing what is unusual for them.

In that regard, I think the Giants have a solid chance at executing it. Their jumbo nickel sub-package should see the field a ton. Substituting Deon Grant into that roving linebacker role in nickel situations extends the Giants rangier coverage abilities without sacrificing too much in terms of run support. That package was conceived with offenses like the Patriotsí in mind. Nickel linebackers Michael Boley and Jacquian Williams are smooth athletes in space that can turn-and-run with their tight ends. Those are one-on-one match-ups that New England would feel comfortable with, for sure, but both defenders are better equipped for sticking with them than most. And Corey Webster is a premium, top-shelf corner without question when heís put in positions that suit his skill set. Heís been miscast at certain points throughout his career, but he thrives in press-man situations. Heís tough, uses good length and technique to frustrate and re-route receivers at the line, and possesses the fluid, loose hips to keep tight to his man on deeper patterns. I love Websterís game so much. It will be interesting to see if Perry Fewell largely deploys Webster to shadow Welker around the field. If Webster can eliminate some of Welkerís effectiveness himself, it makes answering the tight end riddle that much easier.

The most critical component (and most discussed) of the Giants defense is their front four though. In Super Bowl XLII, their pass rush terrorized the Patriots and kept that offense in check all evening. But there is a stark difference between these two offenses. That Patriots offense was predicated on downfield explosiveness. It featured five- and seven-step drops with slow-developing routes. In 2008, the Giants were able to get to Brady as he hit the top of his drop. This Patriots offense is built toward utilizing big bodies and smart receivers in the middle of the field. Therefore, it is a lot more flexible in its drop depth. In 2012, the Giants are going to see more three-step drops and quick passes incorporated into the game plan in an effort to slow the rush.

Now, that doesnít mean the Giants front four canít be successful in this game because that NASCAR package is flat-out disgusting. I donít care if Belichick keeps Solder in pass protection and asks Gronkowski to chip before releasing into his route because that offensive line is still going to have its hands full in those scenarios. Even more so if the Giants mix up and roll through their coverage shells behind that rush. Containing four pass rushers of that caliber is a tough task. New Englandís best method to minimize their exposure to the NASCAR package is to remain on-schedule on offense. If the G-Men can just pin their ears back and get after it, itís going to be tough to handle for the Pats.

On the flip side, I donít see how the Patriots defense slows Eli Manning and that offense. Bill Belichick is a brilliant defensive mind, but I just donít see the talent to pull it off. New Englandís been stout in their run defense down the stretch, but New York wonít be leaning on their ground game for much more than balance purposes. And Vince Wilfork has been the lone monster for Belichick, but I donít see Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride being as nonchalant in their protection schemes as Cam Cameron was. Not for a game of this magnitude. There were a lot of occasions where Wilfork was left in prime positions to make things happen for his defense and he did to his credit. At this point, protection schemes should be geared toward containing Wilfork and daring another person to step their game up and capitalize on it. For me, I donít see another person in their compliment of pass rushers that scares me of doing that. This isnít a stalwart offensive line though, so I suppose itís plausible for someone else to have a big game. It would surprise me though given the pressure Eli endured and persevered through last week. And I expect the Giants are content with riding Eli to the final second, so barring an uncharacteristic game, I donít see how that back seven competes with this group of receivers.

That said, I think at some point on their first drive weíll see the Giants come out with an unbalanced, shotgun formation. The deeper New England has to go in the backfield to match-up, the greater it benefits New York. Once again, Julian Edelman was on the field as a defensive back on a potential Super Bowl-deciding drive and he was locked up in coverage against Anquan Boldin. Itís impossible to hide someone like that. If Edelman finds the field, Eli will scan the field to find him and exploit that match-up for as long as he can. I expect the Giants to run bunch and mesh concepts to further test these green Patriot defensive backs. Iím sure Gilbride will unveil a new wrinkle or two that breaks their tendencies, too. Overall, between the twenties, I donít see New York having much problem moving the chains at allÖ

ÖAnd thatís the caveat for New England. Their red zone defense. Itís been stingier than their total defense all season long and it needs to show up again big-time. New York is an anemic short-distance team and that enables New England to drop seven or eight defenders into coverage behind a line of wide two-gappers. With windows shrinking, Eli will be forced to hit stick throws so long as the Patriots play for body presence or the Giantsí running game will have to show the ability to pound the rock when the opportunity presents itself. If New England holds New York to field goals instead of touchdowns, it gives their offense valuable breathing room and magnifies their margin for error a little.

As it stands, I favor the Giants at this premature date. But the Patriots shouldnít be disregarded. New England poses their threats. I just think that Tom Brady is going to have to be close to perfect for them to pull it out. And, luckily for us as non-Giant fans, he absolutely has that capability.

Canít wait.

summarize for the illiterate plz and thx

Prowler
01-26-2012, 06:15 PM
summarize for the illiterate plz and thx

Damn, I've been thinking, these coaches are good.

Them Patriots can ball. No doubt. Gronk is one bamf if his ankle is good. Tom had a down game, but he'll be back. He's a hall of famer. They don't have Randy Moss, but the Patriots are still good.

I'm thinking they are going to use their 2 tight ends a lot because they are pretty good. Brady had an off game, but he's still Tom ******* Brady.

New England has to do what they do. Don't do the run **** if that ain't their game. Sprinkle it in and keep things up tempo. Keep them guessing, but do what you do.

Coach B uses his tight ends for the running game. Nate Solder might get some looks at TE to help. However, they need to reestablish Woodhead in the passing game to surprise the Giants.

Nobody gets deep for New England. They suck at the deep ball.

The Giants match-up well with New England's short passing game.

The Giants front 4 are good. I think they'll see a lot of 3 step drops.

However, the Giants are going to git'r done. NASCAR! I don't care who Bill has blocking, Tom will be pressured.

The Patriots aren't stopping Eli. Their back 7 blow. The only good player on the D is Wilfork. Total mismatch favoring Eli.

They'll probably keep spreading New England out until Julian Edelman has to play D. Then Eli will rape him.

The only thing is that New England has played decent in the red zone on D. The Giants need to be better running the ball to score.

On paper, the Giants are favored...but they are playing Tom Brady. Can't count him out.

Bart Scott

/quote

Hines
01-26-2012, 06:32 PM
24-21 Giants. It's going to be a classic game.

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:18 PM
So...pro bowl is on...time to watch this joke of a "game."

Raiderz4Life
01-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Every time I see the Pro Bowl rules...I laugh

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:39 PM
No one wants to hit anyone or do anything. The runs are embarrassing. It looks like everyone is moving through jello.

Splat
01-29-2012, 06:40 PM
No effort what so ever lol. They should just take the pads off and play flag football.

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:41 PM
No effort what so ever lol. They should just take the pads off and play flag football.

Seriously.

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:43 PM
Larry Fitzgerald doesn't know how to not give full effort.

TACKLE
01-29-2012, 06:44 PM
The pass protection by these O-Lines has been fantastic....

Raiderz4Life
01-29-2012, 06:44 PM
OMG...this is way worse than I expected.

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:45 PM
OMG...this is way worse than I expected.

We need Roy Williams back to blow people the **** up. He never deserved to be there, but he made it more interesting.

TACKLE
01-29-2012, 06:47 PM
revis = overrated

Raiderz4Life
01-29-2012, 06:48 PM
We need Roy Williams back to blow people the **** up. He never deserved to be there, but he made it more interesting.

I remember him...yes he did.

BeerBaron
01-29-2012, 06:49 PM
revis = overrated

He's probably like "Larry, what the ****? You're not supposed to go that hard!"

brat316
01-29-2012, 06:51 PM
Love the pass rush LOLzzz. I think NFC is trying "harder" than the AFC pass rush.

Ness
01-29-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't think I've made it through an entire Pro Bowl since 2004.

I wish they would bring the Skills challenge back. That was the best part.