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View Full Version : Is USC's Nick Perry A Legit Top 12 Pick?


SenorGato
02-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Dammit. This is generally seen as true? He's just one of those guys who's quietly cemented it? How good are we talking here?

DraftSavant
02-01-2012, 11:12 PM
Depends on whether or not he shows hip flexibility in drills and workouts. He's stiff on tape. Is it a coaching issue or a physical limitation? That's the question.

SickwithIt1010
02-01-2012, 11:32 PM
Ive gotten to watch him a ton the last couple years at SC and the guy is a physical freak. He is so god damn fast off the ball its stupid, he does play stiff at times but he strikes me as a guy who will be able to change that.

MidwayMonster31
02-01-2012, 11:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Buffalo picked him. Watching tape of Perry matchup with Martin, I came away more impressed with Perry's speed, athleticism and variety of rush moves.

fenikz
02-02-2012, 01:11 AM
Unless he just falls flat at the combine he will go top 15 being the highest upside pass rusher in this draft

RaiderNation
02-02-2012, 01:53 AM
The combine will really determine where Perry goes, similarly to Aldon Smith last year. Perry doesn't have the height/length of Smith, but smaller pass rushers that are athletic are still making huge impacts(James Harrison, Von Miller).

Perry could be the surprised top 10 pick this year if a team falls in love with his raw talent, maybe Miami or a team trades up...

TACKLE
02-02-2012, 02:00 AM
The combine will really determine where Perry goes, similarly to Aldon Smith last year. Perry doesn't have the height/length of Smith, but smaller pass rushers that are athletic are still making huge impacts(James Harrison, Von Miller).

I agree that Perry's stock is very much going to be dictated by his combine performance but I don't understand how that's similar to Aldon Smith - none of his times were overly impressive and he looked very stiff in agility drills and he still went 7th overall.

Shane P. Hallam
02-02-2012, 07:43 AM
The combine will really determine where Perry goes, similarly to Aldon Smith last year. Perry doesn't have the height/length of Smith, but smaller pass rushers that are athletic are still making huge impacts(James Harrison, Von Miller).

Perry could be the surprised top 10 pick this year if a team falls in love with his raw talent, maybe Miami or a team trades up...

Moving to the 4-3, not sure if Miami would want Perry with his hand down at DE.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-02-2012, 11:27 AM
Depends on whether or not he shows hip flexibility in drills and workouts. He's stiff on tape. Is it a coaching issue or a physical limitation? That's the question.


Yup. This was why I had him in my "hated prospects" list thread we had a few weeks back. He's someone I can't wait to watch at the combine.

SuperPacker
02-02-2012, 11:29 AM
I think he goes at #10 to the Bills. So much upside.

DraftSavant
02-02-2012, 11:38 AM
Yup. This was why I had him in my "hated prospects" list thread we had a few weeks back. He's someone I can't wait to watch at the combine.

I've put it like this: if he can flex his hips and bend the edge, his ceiling is a Tamba Hali type of player. If he can't, he's Ray Edwards.

That's a huge difference. One can be the foundation of your front seven and is schematically versatile. The other is a nice player if he's the fourth best guy on your D-line, and can only play 4-3 LE.

SuperPacker
02-02-2012, 11:42 AM
I've put it like this: if he can flex his hips and bend the edge, his ceiling is a Tamba Hali type of player. If he can't, he's Ray Edwards.

That's a huge difference. One can be the foundation of your front seven and is schematically versatile. The other is a nice player if he's the fourth best guy on your D-line, and can only play 4-3 LE.

I dont think he can play 4-3 DE. Hes strictly a 3-4 OLB IMO.

ElectricEye
02-02-2012, 11:47 AM
I'm going to go with the crowd a bit here. Perry is probably the consensus highest rated guy that I just haven't gotten a real good feel for yet. I've heard so many mixed things about the kid and when I watch him I come away with mixed impressions as well. Really tough player for me to find a fit for. I think his pass rush skills obviously translate pretty well to standing up in a 3-4...but I'm not sure the rest of it is there. Doesn't look like he changes directions very well or like he's all that fluid. I could honestly go either way on him.

tjsunstein
02-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Still a question mark to me, and I don't think I would take a chance on him that early in the draft but I can see why teams would. As some have mentioned, his hip flexibility is a concern and the combine will sort that out as to how far along he is with it. Someone said it best, whether it's physical limitation or coaching remains to be seen.

I still like Upshaw and Mercilus more right now but there's no doubting Perry's upside here. One of the biggest question marks heading into the combine and could change the landscape of the first round if he grades out well. I'll be keeping my eye out for him.

D-Unit
02-02-2012, 12:22 PM
I never really saw him as an elite caliber talent... but he's the kind of guy that just gets the job done. Over and over, he made plays for USC. Lunch pail player with admirable work ethic. Don't really make the connection to high "upside" like everyone is saying. I think he maxes out everything he's got. High floor, sure.

Punisher
02-02-2012, 12:53 PM
I never really saw him as an elite caliber talent... but he's the kind of guy that just gets the job done. Over and over, he made plays for USC. Lunch pail player with admirable work ethic. Don't really make the connection to high "upside" like everyone is saying. I think he maxes out everything he's got. High floor, sure.

As a USC fan I second this.

I love Perry and his non stop motor, but to me he is a borderline 1st rounder at best. He doesn't really have the hip flexibility to be an elite top 15 prospect. Straight line speed and work ethic are his best attributes.

That said, he will be a good NFL player and hopefully I'm wrong on my assessment.

rawdawg
02-02-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't know how you pick Nick Perry over Courtney Upshaw, if you're a team looking for a pass rusher. Upshaw looks like the real deal. He's got more size and experience as a 3-4 OLB. Plus, Upshaw has much more position flexibility, as I think he can play both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. The Skins aren't going to take an OLB and Buffalo is the only other 3-4 team in the top 10. I don't see anyway that Perry goes top 10 unless a team trades up (Green Bay?, San Diego?). I probably wouldn't touch Perry if I'm a 4-3 team.

bitonti
02-02-2012, 03:58 PM
he fits real well in Seattle to replace Chris Clemons

but he will have to run elite to be worth that pick.

Grizzlegom
02-02-2012, 06:00 PM
I don't really understand the hype for him or Melvin Ingram personally. Both are getting pushed way up due to the lack of top level pass rushing talent and if things keep moving the way draftniks are saying, both will be WAY overdrafted in the top 20. Both have late first/early second round grades from me. Perry's game reminds me of Brooks Reed from last year.

A Perfect Score
02-02-2012, 06:02 PM
I personally don't understand the top 10 love, but I think he's one of those outside guys, along with Irvin, Branch, and Mercilus, who everyone will value lower then they actually go. I do, however, think he's a first round guy.

Babylon
02-02-2012, 06:32 PM
he fits real well in Seattle to replace Chris Clemons

but he will have to run elite to be worth that pick.

I'm not seeing him in Seattle even with the Pete Carroll connection, which is becoming less and less with SC players. I'm in the 3-4 OLB camp. My opinion of him when he played the Huskies was that he's so damn fast chasing the QB. He really put pressure on Locker whenever he ran that side of the field.

Duffman57
02-03-2012, 12:32 AM
NO....SHHHHHH, he's a top 18 pick and THATS IT ;)

SenorGato
02-03-2012, 12:47 PM
NO....SHHHHHH, he's a top 18 pick and THATS IT ;)

I'm thinking top 16. I give him mucho props for his makeup, which seems very strong from the interview videos all over the place. There's more interviews with him on the internet than there is playing video.

bitonti
02-03-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm in the 3-4 OLB camp.

the only 100% sure 3-4 OLB is Upshaw. Ingram is maybe 75% sure because of all the film of him standing up and his Senior Bowl.

these others, Perry, Mercilus, Curry etc. that's all projection. Could Perry be a 3-4 OLB? He _could_ but there's not alot of evidence to prove it. Like Aldon Smith it's a hope.

SenorGato
02-03-2012, 01:02 PM
the only 100% sure 3-4 OLB is Upshaw. Ingram is maybe 75% sure because of all the film of him standing up and his Senior Bowl.

these others, Perry, Mercilus, Curry etc. that's all projection. Could Perry be a 3-4 OLB? He _could_ but there's not alot of evidence to prove it. Like Aldon Smith it's a hope.

If a 6'1" guy with questionable length, hips, and speed is the only sure 3-4 OLB in this draft, then should 3-4 teams even bother with any of these guys?

Said it many times bit, but pretty much every 3-4 OLB playing 3-4 OLB today was a DE convert or a "projection." Hell, you're projecting Upshaw to play 3-4 OLB as a pro because he's a college 3-4 OLB.

Aldon Smith worked out, just like a bunch of other converts. There have been busts because that the nature of going from college to the pros...not everyone makes it. Upshaw is not immune to it because of his college position + good weight for a 3-4 OLB.

bitonti
02-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Upshaw is not immune to it because of his college position + good weight for a 3-4 OLB.

he played 4 years of 3-4 outside linebacker for arguably the best defense in the nation.

whether he's an all pro or pro bowler, yes I agree that's up for debate. He's certainly not a perfect prospect.

You are making this about Upshaw, the real question you should be asking is what about Perry, Curry, Mercilus etc makes people think they can play LB? you are quick to point out the flaws of Upshaw but no one says boo about Nick Perry. maybe cause we don't know as much about him.

redbills
02-03-2012, 02:53 PM
I don't know how you pick Nick Perry over Courtney Upshaw, if you're a team looking for a pass rusher. Upshaw looks like the real deal. He's got more size and experience as a 3-4 OLB. Plus, Upshaw has much more position flexibility, as I think he can play both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. The Skins aren't going to take an OLB and Buffalo is the only other 3-4 team in the top 10. I don't see anyway that Perry goes top 10 unless a team trades up (Green Bay?, San Diego?). I probably wouldn't touch Perry if I'm a 4-3 team.

bills moved back to the 43 middle of the yr. and are going to stick with it. Gaily even said it last week the base d will be a 43.

Leon Sandcastle
02-03-2012, 04:14 PM
The Bills Coaching Staff have come out this week and stated they're going with the 4-3 so I don't see him being taken by the Bills at #10 unless they're dead set that he can play DE in the 4-3.

He looks more like a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 DE to me.

bitonti
02-03-2012, 04:59 PM
He looks more like a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 DE to me.

this is probably over simplifying but JMO,

Any DE prospect can play in the 4-3. It's probably what they played in school.

not every DE can stand up and play 3-4 OLB.

granted, Perry might be light in certain DE roles (he's not a Michael Strahan type) but there are many 4-3's that have 250 pound DE for example the Falcons, Eagles, and the Colts.

DraftSavant
02-03-2012, 05:02 PM
this is probably over simplifying but JMO,

Any DE prospect can play in the 4-3. It's probably what they played in school.

not every DE can stand up and play 3-4 OLB.

granted, Perry might be light in certain DE roles (he's not a Michael Strahan type) but there are many 4-3's that have 250 pound DE for example the Falcons, Eagles, and the Colts.

Oversimplifying slightly, but on point overall.

Not to mention, his pass rush is largely based off of strength, leverage, and bullrushing, not beating the tackle in space and dipping/skimming the edge.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-03-2012, 05:13 PM
This is what I see from Nick Perry. A guy who gets off the ball well, fast in short areas, and has a nice pop on contact. This is why I don't feel confident in saying he'll bust. That's reserved for guys who don't have an explosive first movement.


But what I also see is someone who doesn't have any hip flexibility (scary for a guy who constantly runs the arch), doesn't have much of a threat to come back inside on the tackle, and someone who will be constantly pushed past the QB in the NFL.


Really want to see him at the combine.

DraftSavant
02-03-2012, 05:48 PM
This is what I see from Nick Perry. A guy who gets off the ball well, fast in short areas, and has a nice pop on contact. This is why I don't feel confident in saying he'll bust. That's reserved for guys who don't have an explosive first movement.


But what I also see is someone who doesn't have any hip flexibility (scary for a guy who constantly runs the arch), doesn't have much of a threat to come back inside on the tackle, and someone who will be constantly pushed past the QB in the NFL.


Really want to see him at the combine.

Pretty much this. He has very nice closing speed, too, which is a different animal than burst off the ball.

J-Mike88
02-03-2012, 06:57 PM
I dont think he can play 4-3 DE. Hes strictly a 3-4 OLB IMO.
That's exactly what I said about Jerry Hughes 2 years ago too, but the Colts didn't listen.

Perry needs to stand up.

Iamcanadian
02-04-2012, 06:37 AM
Like all juniors, if he wants to be a high pick, he will have to demonstrate at the combine, the physical talent to dominate at the next level. Right now, he is just one of many juniors who have potential to rise up the charts but without the combine performance, it is difficult on tape to put him anywhere near the top 10.

studnel
02-04-2012, 12:20 PM
First time poster on these boards. I have been doing my own scouting of draft prospects for years. I usually use YouTube to find video on guys. Does anyone know of another location to find video on players?

To add to the discussion on Perry, from the little tape I have seen of him I would agree with many here that say he plays stiff. My biggest questions come in the form of his ability to bend, change direction, and play in space. I need to put more time in on Nick though. At this point, I do not see him as a Top 15 pick. Anything after 20 probably fits his value better.

If anyone can point me in the direction of other locations to watch game tape on these guys that would be much appreciated. I look forward to becoming part of these draft forums on a regular basis.

Leon Sandcastle
02-04-2012, 01:43 PM
this is probably over simplifying but JMO,

Any DE prospect can play in the 4-3. It's probably what they played in school.

not every DE can stand up and play 3-4 OLB.

granted, Perry might be light in certain DE roles (he's not a Michael Strahan type) but there are many 4-3's that have 250 pound DE for example the Falcons, Eagles, and the Colts.

Yeah I probably was oversimplifying it but I strictly for what the Bills are looking for. He isn't a match.

Bills GM Buddy Nix has come out he wants DE guys who are 6'4, 260 +. Perry looks like he's going to measure in at 6'.25.

nfldraftnerd
02-05-2012, 12:58 AM
I never really saw him as an elite caliber talent...

I am with you there. His internet hype has inflated in the past couple months, but I think he's a 2nd round talent at best. He's got some raw talent for sure, I just don't see the nastiness I would like to see from a pass rusher at the next level. Perhaps, he moves up a tad on my board after workouts, but as far as pass rushing prospects, he's 5th on my list behind Coples, Curry, Ingram, and Upshaw.

onejayhawk
02-05-2012, 07:03 PM
I want to see his agility times, ie shuttle, 3 cone, the 10 yard and the jumps before I move him above #20.

J

SenorGato
02-06-2012, 02:37 PM
he played 4 years of 3-4 outside linebacker for arguably the best defense in the nation.

whether he's an all pro or pro bowler, yes I agree that's up for debate. He's certainly not a perfect prospect.

You are making this about Upshaw, the real question you should be asking is what about Perry, Curry, Mercilus etc makes people think they can play LB? you are quick to point out the flaws of Upshaw but no one says boo about Nick Perry. maybe cause we don't know as much about him.

In college....In college Chris Long played 3-4 years at 3-4 DE...I would never draft him to be a 3-4 DE.

Sorry, but I just don't think a college 3-4 is the same as a pro 3-4, even one as good as Alabama's. Maybe if Upshaw had things like size...more athleticism...more speed...more length...I think those advantages would help guys like Perry, Curry, and Mercilus make the transition to a pro 3-4 OLB position and be more dynamic talents at the position.

What made teams think that Williw McGinest could play 3-4 OLB? Charles Haley? DeMarcus Ware? Shawne Merriman? Calvin Pace? Terrell Suggs? Tamba Hali? Those were all college DEs...How many 3-4 OLBs were college LBs? How many of those went in the top 20?

Iunno man...I like Upshaw just fine as a player, but I'm extremely skeptical of him as a DE/OLB. I just don' think the position translate like that from college to the pros...I think he's a 4-3 DE.

Steady Lurkin
03-01-2012, 04:27 PM
NICK PERRY IS WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS

Really though, subpar shuttle, 3-cone, and 10-yard split confirms the slow first step and lack of flexibility you see on tape.

4-3 end, solely.

JHL6719
03-01-2012, 06:31 PM
NICK PERRY IS WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS

Really though, subpar shuttle, 3-cone, and 10-yard split confirms the slow first step and lack of flexibility you see on tape.

4-3 end, solely.


Coples scored a lot worse than Nick Perry in the 3-cone and shuttle, not sure about the 10-yard split. Matter of fact, Coples was the worst DE at the combine in the 3-cone and shuttle.

Perry's broad jump, vertical jump, 40 time, and bench reps were all the best of the DE's.

derza222
03-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Coples scored a lot worse than Nick Perry in the 3-cone and shuttle, not sure about the 10-yard split. Matter of fact, Coples was the worst DE at the combine in the 3-cone and shuttle.

Perry's broad jump, vertical jump, 40 time, and bench reps were all the best of the DE's.

All of that means he's explosive though, not flexible. Not like anybody was really considering Coples to stand up as a 3-4 OLB, so that's a bit of a strange comparison. There's probably a chance Perry could make it work, if memory serves Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan were a bit stiff last year as well and they looked good as rookies, but given he looked stiff on tape and tested out stiff I don't think it's ridiculous to say he's better suited as a 4-3 end.

JHL6719
03-01-2012, 06:54 PM
All of that means he's explosive though, not flexible. Not like anybody was really considering Coples to stand up as a 3-4 OLB, so that's a bit of a strange comparison. There's probably a chance Perry could make it work, if memory serves Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan were a bit stiff last year as well and they looked good as rookies, but given he looked stiff on tape and tested out stiff I don't think it's ridiculous to say he's better suited as a 4-3 end.


You can still be an elite pass rusher if you show some stiffness as long as you have lower body explosiveness. I don't know that you can be a great pass rusher without it, no matter how flexible you are.

The question I'm more interested in is whether Nick Perry should be the #1 4-3 DE in this class and a top 10 pick.

Duffman57
03-01-2012, 07:20 PM
NICK PERRY IS WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS

Really though, subpar shuttle, 3-cone, and 10-yard split confirms the slow first step and lack of flexibility you see on tape.

4-3 end, solely.

Tha who whaaaaaaa?

…Perry EASILY has the best first step in the draft not named Bruce Irvin who's a situational guy right away for now. He had one of the best 10 yard split times for anybody on Monday at 1.56...

Perry struggled with the agility drills, but even though he looks stiff on tape, he looks solid when asked to drop into a short zone. But the truth is that if he moves to LB and a DC uses him right, he wont be droppi g into coverage more than a few times a game, and will also likely be asked to drop into the 260-265 range to advance his movement skills.

TACKLE
03-01-2012, 07:44 PM
Tha who whaaaaaaa?

…Perry EASILY has the best first step in the draft not named Bruce Irvin who's a situational guy right away for now. He had one of the best 10 yard split times for anybody on Monday at 1.56...

Perry struggled with the agility drills, but even though he looks stiff on tape, he looks solid when asked to drop into a short zone. But the truth is that if he moves to LB and a DC uses him right, he wont be droppi g into coverage more than a few times a game, and will also likely be asked to drop into the 260-265 range to advance his movement skills.

The issue with his stiffness as it relates to playing 34 OLB isn't so much about his coverage as it about his ability to rush from a wide angle. The angles from what is essentially 9-tech require the pass rusher to have the flexibility to dip low and turn the corner. It makes it easier on OT's in the sense that allows them can overplay the bullrush/inside move more because they know they can just wash the pass rusher up field when he's trying to 'run the arc'. I can't speak for Steady Lurkin but I'm guessing that is what he's referring too.

Now that's not saying Perry still can't be a very effective pass rusher. He's very explosive and turns his speed into power better than any DE in this draft. Just why he's much suited playing in tighter where he has more of a two-way go than playing out wide where he has to be able to turn the corner.

Taber21
03-01-2012, 07:45 PM
I believe there are enough 4-3 teams with needs at DE in the top 12 that he will get picked somewhere in there. The lack of top tier prototypical 4-3 DE's in this draft will add to the likely hood him and Coples go in that range.

derza222
03-01-2012, 07:47 PM
You can still be an elite pass rusher if you show some stiffness as long as you have lower body explosiveness. I don't know that you can be a great pass rusher without it, no matter how flexible you are.

The question I'm more interested in is whether Nick Perry should be the #1 4-3 DE in this class and a top 10 pick.

I don't think what type of pass rusher he'll be was the question, at least not what I was saying. The ability to stand up and play linebacker with that lack of flexibility is fair to question though, I think. Obviously the explosiveness helps, but could be just as positive with his hand in the dirt.

TACKLE
03-01-2012, 07:53 PM
Coples scored a lot worse than Nick Perry in the 3-cone and shuttle, not sure about the 10-yard split. Matter of fact, Coples was the worst DE at the combine in the 3-cone and shuttle.

Perry's broad jump, vertical jump, 40 time, and bench reps were all the best of the DE's.

Which is why I wouldn't touch him if I was a 4-3 team needing a pass rusher near the top of the draft (among other reasons). I'm all for rolling the dice on freakish athletes and developing them as pass rushers but I'm no longer convinced that Coples is that athlete.

JHL6719
03-01-2012, 08:23 PM
On the other hand, how is Nick Perry different from Everson Griffen as a prospect?

Essentially the same production, almost exact same build (height, weight, arm length, etc.), same upper body strength (reps), same speed (mid 4.6 range).

Nick Perry edges him out slightly in the vertical and broad jump.


Thoughts?

JHL6719
03-01-2012, 08:23 PM
On the other hand, how is Nick Perry different from Everson Griffen as a prospect?

Essentially the same production, almost exact same build (height, weight, arm length, etc.), same upper body strength (reps), same speed (mid 4.6 range).

Nick Perry edges him out slightly in the vertical and broad jump.


Thoughts?

Taber21
03-01-2012, 08:34 PM
If comparing their workout numbers, the fact Perry has a much better vertical, a better broad jump, and a better 10 yard shows significantly more lower body strength/explosion which is obviously quite important for pass rushers.

FUNBUNCHER
03-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Is he any different than Brian Orakpo as a 34 OLB prospect?

Duffman57
03-01-2012, 08:50 PM
On the other hand, how is Nick Perry different from Everson Griffen as a prospect?

Essentially the same production, almost exact same build (height, weight, arm length, etc.), same upper body strength (reps), same speed (mid 4.6 range).

Nick Perry edges him out slightly in the vertical and broad jump.


Thoughts?

Explosiveness. Griffen was alright, but he was more like Coples than Perry.

4.5 inches in the vert and 7" in the broad is nothing to pass over, and sure isn't "slight" in any way.

Nick Perry is more like Orakpo, who had the exact same concerns at a smaller weight. And Nick Perry bulked up quite a bit to show up as more of a 4-3 DE since that is where the higher up teams are looking at him (since buffalo and heck even the Bucs or Phins have a shot at him, and all are playing the 43 next year). Perry would likely drop weight to play the 34 OLB and that would help his agility numbers a lot.

SenorGato
03-01-2012, 09:21 PM
Is he any different than Brian Orakpo as a 34 OLB prospect?

Taller, heavier, and probably a little longer.

Willie McGinnest?

SenorGato
03-01-2012, 09:25 PM
BTW: One of the best players in this draft.

SRogers92
03-01-2012, 10:04 PM
To sum it up: no

ATLDirtyBirds
03-01-2012, 10:10 PM
BTW: One of the best players in this draft.


Not at all.

FUNBUNCHER
03-01-2012, 10:26 PM
I'd want him to drop about 15#, but Perry looks ideal for 34 'backer IMO. He's the same height as Orakpo and about a tenth a sec faster. Both are athletic but not the most fluid athletes. Good effort guys.

I think he goes higher than some are predicting, but I dunno about top 12.

Duffman57
03-01-2012, 10:27 PM
I'd want him to drop about 15#, but Perry looks ideal for 34 'backer IMO. He's the same height as Orakpo and about a tenth a sec faster. Both are athletic but not the most fluid athletes. Good effort guys.

I think he goes higher than some are predicting, but I dunno about top 12.

I'm really PRAYING for him at #18. I really wish we lost the Raider game that last week now... :(

Iamcanadian
03-01-2012, 10:39 PM
Actually, Mayock and a number of NFL Network scout/GM types all thought Upshaw might only suit as a 4-3 DE more than as a 3-4 OLB. Upshaw looked lost in the LBer drills at the combine and showed little burst. Upshaw just didn't look at all comfortable running the LBer drills.

RaiderNation
03-01-2012, 11:16 PM
Might be the 2nd best 3-4 OLB prospect behind Ingram, Upshaw should play in the 4-3 he doesnt have the movement skills to play in the NFL. Upshaw or Ingram will likely go to Buffalo at 10, but after that Perry could sneak into the top 18 of the draft. Cardinals, Jets and Chargers all could be looking for a pass rusher in the top 20.

Duffman57
03-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Might be the 2nd best 3-4 OLB prospect behind Ingram, Upshaw should play in the 4-3 he doesnt have the movement skills to play in the NFL. Upshaw or Ingram will likely go to Buffalo at 10, but after that Perry could sneak into the top 18 of the draft. Cardinals, Jets and Chargers all could be looking for a pass rusher in the top 20.

Ingram isn't good. He will never do anything as a pass rusher in this league. If someone takes him over Perry, i'll be SO happy.

bigbuc
03-01-2012, 11:46 PM
Perry to me looks like a 4/3 end. He's a little stiff which isn't that bad as a end, but might be a problem if he opens his hips to run with a TE or RB.

The one thing that I really like about Perry is he plays hard all the time which is big for a D linemen cause most of the time they make the play on second effort.

GoRavens
03-02-2012, 12:06 AM
He's great.
USC sure knows how to breed monsters in the weight room.
He'll most likely be available when the Ravens are on the clock, so he's an interesting thought for a 3/4 outside rusher

Duffman57
03-02-2012, 03:08 AM
He's great.
USC sure knows how to breed monsters in the weight room.
He'll most likely be available when the Ravens are on the clock, so he's an interesting thought for a 3/4 outside rusher

Dont see how he gets past the Chargers at 18...AJ Smith has said over and over that we need a PASS RUSHER. He's easily the best in the class. Zero chance he makes it to the Ravens.

descendency
03-02-2012, 04:28 AM
I don't see a 34OLB. I see a wide 9 DE. He's stiff.

descendency
03-02-2012, 04:30 AM
Actually, Mayock and a number of NFL Network scout/GM types all thought Upshaw might only suit as a 4-3 DE more than as a 3-4 OLB. Upshaw looked lost in the LBer drills at the combine and showed little burst. Upshaw just didn't look at all comfortable running the LBer drills.

I heard the exact opposite from different people.

gpngc
03-02-2012, 10:46 AM
I believe there are enough 4-3 teams with needs at DE in the top 12 that he will get picked somewhere in there. The lack of top tier prototypical 4-3 DE's in this draft will add to the likely hood him and Coples go in that range.

I agree that this fact makes Coples a hot commodity.

There are like NO other good 4-3 DEs 3-down in this draft. It's sad. Cam Johnson maybe? Mercilus and Perry are better suited as backers. Maybe Curry? Maybe Upshaw? It's tough.

SenorGato
03-02-2012, 10:48 AM
Not at all.

Oh yes. What's not to like?

SenorGato
03-02-2012, 10:52 AM
Actually, Mayock and a number of NFL Network scout/GM types all thought Upshaw might only suit as a 4-3 DE more than as a 3-4 OLB. Upshaw looked lost in the LBer drills at the combine and showed little burst. Upshaw just didn't look at all comfortable running the LBer drills.

Some smart people have called him a 4-3 DE for much longer...Upshaw I mean...he doesn't move like a LB, even if he did play one in college.


He'd be PERFECT for the Pats' new 4-3. He's a Freeney-esque DE...without the 4.4 obviously.

JoeJoeBrown
03-02-2012, 11:00 AM
I find his offerings to be very mediocre. But people still seem to love his work.

Still, there is no way I would take him after that abomination of a movie "A Madea Christmas". Turrble.

SRogers92
03-02-2012, 11:08 AM
Ingram isn't good. He will never do anything as a pass rusher in this league. If someone takes him over Perry, i'll be SO happy.



You'd think you'd have a job as a scout with all of that foresight you have. But instead ... you're stuck on a message board speaking in absolutes. Carry on.

SenorGato
03-02-2012, 11:40 AM
You'd think you'd have a job as a scout with all of that foresight you have. But instead ... you're stuck on a message board speaking in absolutes. Carry on.

I like Perry more than Ingram. Not saying Ingram won't do anything as a pro, but I will say that as a prospect I find him overrated.

D-Unit
03-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Buyer Beware.

Perry has good games and then disappears for the next 6.

Duffman57
03-02-2012, 11:49 AM
NICK PERRY IS WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS

Really though, subpar shuttle, 3-cone, and 10-yard split confirms the slow first step and lack of flexibility you see on tape.

4-3 end, solely.

You'd think you'd have a job as a scout with all of that foresight you have. But instead ... you're stuck on a message board speaking in absolutes. Carry on.

That's the fun part of the draft. You can make statements like this, and by the time it is proven or not, nobody willl remember what you're view on a guy unless u remember.

But adding up what I've seen from him, I just don't see how he's ever going to be a threat rushing the passer. I don't doubt that he can be a solid defensive player that is very versatile, but he has average burst off the line, short arms that prevent him from using his arms well if he ever decided to actually use his hands (which he never does). He is strictly a bull rush guy, which is hard to do with such short arms, and going up vs NFL LTs, I just don't see him making a difference...

ATLDirtyBirds
03-02-2012, 11:53 AM
Oh yes. What's not to like?


Stiff, only speed rushes, gets high on contact. I don't hate him like I used too, but he's not one of the best prospects in the class. Not at all.

SenorGato
03-02-2012, 01:21 PM
Stiff, only speed rushes, gets high on contact. I don't hate him like I used too, but he's not one of the best prospects in the class. Not at all.

Meh he's stiff but not to where it actually hinders him or his game. It's just something to point out as far as I'm concerned...Not to mention its becoming the new "he takes plays off" that 300+ pound DTs get for 3-4 OLB prospects.

Completely disagree on the speed rush...he can bull rush, hes got a spin move, and he swims.

IMO throw him in the pile of guys you can plug and play and expect competence from. Underrated. I'm going to go as far as saying I'd take him over Ingram if I was a 3-4 team.

bitonti
03-02-2012, 01:52 PM
. I'm going to go as far as saying I'd take him over Ingram if I was a 3-4 team.

People are underrating Ingram. and Upshaw. These guys are football players thru and thru.

Babylon
03-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Buyer Beware.

Perry has good games and then disappears for the next 6.

He was a nightmare for my Huskies. I think in the right defense (3-4) he is going to be invaluable chasing down the new eral of mobile QBs. Hoping for him to land at one of the two New England picks.

J-Mike88
03-03-2012, 12:05 PM
He was a nightmare for my Huskies. I think in the right defense (3-4) he is going to be invaluable chasing down the new eral of mobile QBs. Hoping for him to land at one of the two New England picks.
Perry is on record saying he prefers to play with his hand on the ground, not standing up as a 34 backer.
I expect he does to a conventional 43 defense.

LOL at everyone who says a guy takes plays off, or disappears for stretches.

So does DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller, etc. They disappear at times when teams focus on stopping them.

SenorGato
03-04-2012, 03:27 AM
People are underrating Ingram. and Upshaw. These guys are football players thru and thru.

As is Perry...who is the biggest and best athlete of the three.

I'm starting to think Perry is more underrated than either. From what I've been reading on forums it's almost like he's being penalized for having great workout numbers at the combine...As if that's all the junior with 21 career sacks at USC is about. Pop on some Perry and he's a better mover than Upshaw while being a much better pass rusher than Ingram.

Steady Lurkin
03-04-2012, 12:26 PM
He's one of those guys who's tough to figure out. He's a power rusher with closing speed like Carlos Dunlap, except he's not built like that kind of traditional defensive end.

SenorGato
03-05-2012, 12:32 AM
Is the difference between this guy and Orakpo basically Orakpo staying for his senior season and letting the beat build?

ellsy82
03-05-2012, 05:23 AM
The dude posted a 83.83 KEI...

That's the highest I've ever seen from anyone. JJ Watt had an 81 last year, and that was the highest I've seen since, what? Woodley? Those two guys have done pretty good.

ellsy82
03-05-2012, 05:25 AM
He's stiff? That can be taught out of a player. His potential is through the roof. Its not like his 13 TFL and 8.5 sacks aren't productive last year.

bitonti
03-05-2012, 09:12 AM
As is Perry...who is the biggest and best athlete of the three.


perry is the best athlete in a straight line. Force to change direction, backpedal or run sideline to sideline, there are many better athletes.

if there is a top 12 surprise DE it's Mercilus not Perry.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
perry is the best athlete in a straight line. Force to change direction, backpedal or run sideline to sideline, there are many better athletes.

if there is a top 12 surprise DE it's Mercilus not Perry.

I'll laugh at whoever takes Mercilus top 15.

ellsy82
03-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I'll laugh at whoever takes Mercilus top 15.

Why? He's a one hit wonder, sure...but he's a helluva pass rusher. I could see Miami taking him if they deem him worthy. Its not like his combine hurt his stock or anything.

Taber21
03-06-2012, 10:21 AM
Can someone translate this into english for me.

My guess is he is trying to mock someone who has brain damage from concussions and cannot formulate sentences? If true, disgraceful.

Either that, or it is some cheap attempt to promote the sale of baseball hats?

ATLDirtyBirds
03-06-2012, 10:28 AM
Meh he's stiff but not to where it actually hinders him or his game. It's just something to point out as far as I'm concerned...Not to mention its becoming the new "he takes plays off" that 300+ pound DTs get for 3-4 OLB prospects.

Completely disagree on the speed rush...he can bull rush, hes got a spin move, and he swims.

IMO throw him in the pile of guys you can plug and play and expect competence from. Underrated. I'm going to go as far as saying I'd take him over Ingram if I was a 3-4 team.


Tightness is definitely a legitamate concern from someone who soley runs the arc.

Why? He's a one hit wonder, sure...but he's a helluva pass rusher. I could see Miami taking him if they deem him worthy. Its not like his combine hurt his stock or anything.

Let me start by saying, he's purely a pass rusher. Not a good run defender at all. Might not be the biggest deal considering the NFL game, but still not ideal for someone we are talking about going this early.

Also, I just feel as if when there's contact, he's done. Struggles to disengage, gets upright, loses leverage, etc. Also, I haven't charted all of his sacks, but it seems like he made a quite a few of his plays from the DT spot. I suppose you can argue that means he has some versatility and the DC coordinator can be creative with him, but when someone's production blows up one year and they're doing a lot of it from unique usage (Jamaal Anderson, DaQuan Bowers) it scares me.

SenorGato
03-06-2012, 11:43 AM
Tightness is definitely a legitamate concern from someone who soley runs the arc.


1. Then it's a good thing he does more than run the arc.

2. It's also a good thing that that tightness can be worked on.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-06-2012, 12:28 PM
1. Then it's a good thing he does more than run the arc.

2. It's also a good thing that that tightness can be worked on.



If you say so. I haven't seen him do all that much besides his speed rush personally. And I don't see any kind of explosiveness/suddeness when trying to change direction. I'll try and find some more tape since you seem pretty adament about this.

A Perfect Score
03-06-2012, 12:32 PM
The thing about Perry is he reminds me so much of Aldon Smith sometimes, and I hated Aldon Smith. The other thing is, Aldon Smith dominated as a rookie. So where does that leave me? Confused. No idea what to make of him as a prospect.

I'll tell you one thing though, Perry doesn't have the inside counter that works so god damned well for Smith.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-06-2012, 12:37 PM
The thing about Perry is he reminds me so much of Aldon Smith sometimes, and I hated Aldon Smith. The other thing is, Aldon Smith dominated as a rookie. So where does that leave me? Confused. No idea what to make of him as a prospect.

I'll tell you one thing though, Perry doesn't have the inside counter that works so god damned well for Smith.


^^^. I think Aldon's leg injury wasn't accounted for another and made him look unimpressive at times though...I also don't think Perry has the same kind of hand usage as Aldon (although Perry's is good).