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BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 07:45 AM
I thought we could use a thread to talk about random things throughout the offseason that aren't really worth a topic of their own but don't fit logically anywhere else.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/08/report-redskins-plan-to-franchise-fred-davis/

The Redskins are planning to use the franchise tag on Fred Davis.

Also, fun thing I found researching for a full fantasy forum offseason I'd like to do:

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html

Each team's projected salary cap number.

The teams who are likely to be over the $121-$125 million cap (not yet set) are:

St. Louis Rams $120,982,904

Detroit Lions $122,760,121

New York Giants $124,735,807

New York Jets $128,092,733

Dallas Cowboys $128,910,735

Carolina Panthers $129,962,768

Oakland Raiders $140,861,316

Pittsburgh Steelers $149,885,537

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 07:59 AM
You gonna make any end of the year thoughts? *eagerly waits*

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:02 AM
Manningham gets overpaid by a lot. He will be completely useless his first year, but by year 2 settles in to be a nice but still overpaid player for whatever team signs him.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:04 AM
You gonna make any end of the year thoughts? *eagerly waits*

Maybe, let me think of some things. I'm currently working on a free agents and salary cap list for a potential fantasy forum offseason if there is enough interest.

Manningham gets overpaid by a lot. He will be completely useless his first year, but by year 2 settles in to be a nice but still overpaid player for whatever team signs him.

Probably. He wouldn't be a bad 2nd tier type of free agent WR signing. But I'm like you in that I think he gets paid like a #1 WR by someone and never lives up to it.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:06 AM
Normally I'd say the Redskins would way overpay for him. But with Shanny there now, maybe they don't.

But 3 years ago, Mario would have Redskins written all over him.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:08 AM
Normally I'd say the Redskins would way overpay for him. But with Shanny there now, maybe they don't.

But 3 years ago, Mario would have Redskins written all over him.

He's already gone. He said he wants to play somewhere warm after being in Michigan and NY.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:10 AM
He's already gone. He said he wants to play somewhere warm after being in Michigan and NY.

Yeah I heard that on WFAN yesterday. He's a goner. We have options though, I'm not too worried.

I want a vertical guy to replace him though. Laurent Robinson?

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:10 AM
I'd say that San Fran might be a fit. Not quite "warm" but warmer than Michigan and NY. They have a need for a deep threat who can actually catch the damn ball and he'd only be the 2nd or 3rd receiving option.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:12 AM
Yeah I heard that on WFAN yesterday. He's a goner. We have options though, I'm not too worried.

I want a vertical guy to replace him though. Laurent Robinson?

Smith. I really want him back. Cruz can be the vertical guy. He can be either. Smith can come back and work back slowly as the slot guy in the 3 wides like how he started his career when we had Plax/Toomer.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:14 AM
You guys also have Jernigan. Hopefully his development continues.

Giantsfan1080
02-08-2012, 08:15 AM
I could see Mannigham going to the Rams or Jags. Teams are both desperate for a WR.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:16 AM
You guys also have Jernigan. Hopefully his development continues.

There has been no development. At least that we can see. He doesn't see the field. And his returns have been average to less than average in my opinion. That's what I was originally hoping for in him, a return man. We haven't had a stud returner since Ron Dixon.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:16 AM
Smith. I really want him back. Cruz can be the vertical guy. He can be either. Smith can come back and work back slowly as the slot guy in the 3 wides like how he started his career when we had Plax/Toomer.

I love Smith, the problem is, Cruz has developed into such a good slot WR, I don't want to take him out of the slot. He's pretty much indefensible in the slot with 1 guy on him, and that creates a ton of matchup nightmares for defenses.

If we move him outside, he'll still be effective, but he's easier to take out of the game with a 2 deep safety look.

I rather get another deep threat guy on the outside to punish teams vertically.

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:20 AM
What about Hixon?

GOD DMAN steelers how are you so over the cap?

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:20 AM
I could see Mannigham going to the Rams or Jags. Teams are both desperate for a WR.

And he'd be expected to be the #1 in either place. I don't think he could even live up to that, especially give the QB situations.

There has been no development. At least that we can see. He doesn't see the field. And his returns have been average to less than average in my opinion. That's what I was originally hoping for in him, a return man. We haven't had a stud returner since Ron Dixon.

You guys have said it yourselves all year that Gilbride's system is very complex for the WRs. He may just need some more time to pick it up. Plus with the fact that you were 3 deep with quality WRs this year, he probably didn't get many opportunities.

See what he looks like in his 2nd year with a full offseason before dismissing him entirely.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:21 AM
What about Hixon?

GOD DMAN steelers how are you so over the cap?

Ancient defense basically. I seriously think some team should try to swipe Mike Wallace while the Steelers are stuck figuring out how to get under the cap.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:22 AM
What about Hixon?

GOD DMAN steelers how are you so over the cap?

Back to Back ACLs. Can't count on him.

Also we need to look at TEs. We lost Ballard and Beckum to ACLs in the Super Bowl so we can't count on them for next year. TE and OL. And a WR to replace Mario. Throw in a LB somewhere and I'm set.

Now let's talk about other non Super Bowl winning teams. Don't want to dominate the discussion anymore.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:24 AM
It's going to pain me to see Luke Keuchly in an Eagles uniform next year. Also, if they let go of Asante, I think that's a major mistake. Asante is their best CB, and DRC is a solid #2 but not as good as they thought he'd be.

And Nmandi is overrated. Don't believe the hype.

Gotta keep Asante.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:24 AM
I find it funny the Cowboys keep talking about how they are gonna get Carl Nicks, but they would have to release a few players and not be able to sign Bradie James, Mat McBriar, Alan Ball, Keith Brooking, Anthony Spencer.....

jrdrylie
02-08-2012, 08:25 AM
The Steelers are lucky Mike Wallace is a restricted free agent and not an unrestricted free agent. That far over the cap, there is no way they would be able to keep him. If I'm San Francisco or New England, I offer him a big contract that Pittsburgh can't possibly match without drastically trimming some fat and then give up a first round pick.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:25 AM
I find it funny the Cowboys keep talking about how they are gonna get Carl Nicks, but they would have to release a few players and not be able to sign Bradie James, Mat McBriar, Alan Ball, Keith Brooking, Anthony Spencer.....

Would they miss any of those guys besides McBriar?

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:26 AM
I find it funny the Cowboys keep talking about how they are gonna get Carl Nicks, but they would have to release a few players and not be able to sign Bradie James, Mat McBriar, Alan Ball, Keith Brooking, Anthony Spencer.....

Um, well, they really don't want any of them back. They all suck or are mediocre. Other than McBriar.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:27 AM
What about Hixon?

GOD DMAN steelers how are you so over the cap?

Big Ben, Polomalu, Woodley, Harrison, Timmons all make over 8 mil (Ben tops at 17 mil)

And you have Willie Colon making almost 6 mil, Hines making almost 5, and Ike Taylor making 7.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:30 AM
Would they miss any of those guys besides McBriar?

Um, well, they really don't want any of them back. They all suck or are mediocre. Other than McBriar.

So your going to get rid of half of your top tacklers? Do you have another MLB to start? I thought Ball, James, Brooking (can understand him leaving), Spencer all started games...

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:31 AM
Franchise Tag Wallace.

Steelers need to force Aaron Smith to retire. He has been a great 3-4 DE, but hasn't played a full season in like 4 years. Time to hang it up.

I hear they are restructuring deals, but that doesn't really help it just delays it 1 or 2 years. That is partly the reason we are in this mess, restructured some deals and winning SBs means you have a price to pay, in bonus and new deals. Also making mistakes by overpaying certain Oline positions.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:33 AM
Big Ben, Polomalu, Woodley, Harrison, Timmons all make over 8 mil (Ben tops at 17 mil)

And you have Willie Colon making almost 6 mil, Hines making almost 5, and Ike Taylor making 7.

Hines will be getting cut, or have his salary reduced to the bare minimum. Casey Hampton will also be cut taking his $8.1 million cap number off the books. Aaron Smith and Chris Hoke are retiring as well, Farrior too possibly. If he doesn't, he'll be cut along with Larry Foote I think.

The Steelers actually shouldn't have TOO hard of time getting under the cap, but their defensive depth is going to get kneecapped pretty damn badly as result.

That's why I'd try to steal Mike Wallace away while they figure it all out. They can cut all of those guys to get UNDER the cap, but far enough under to match a primo market deal for Wallace? Doubtful.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:33 AM
So your going to get rid of half of your top tacklers? Do you have another MLB to start? I thought Ball, James, Brooking (can understand him leaving), Spencer all started games...

They have Lee. Who is the best of the bunch. Maybe one comes back between James and Brooking. And they get someone else. Top tacklers is deceiving. Getting a ton of tackles isn't always a good thing.

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:35 AM
Hines will be getting cut, or have his salary reduced to the bare minimum. Casey Hampton will also be cut taking his $8.1 million cap number off the books. Aaron Smith and Chris Hoke are retiring as well, Farrior too possibly. If he doesn't, he'll be cut along with Larry Foote I think.

The Steelers actually shouldn't have TOO hard of time getting under the cap, but their defensive depth is going to get kneecapped pretty damn badly as result.

That's why I'd try to steal Mike Wallace away while they figure it all out. They can cut all of those guys to get UNDER the cap, but far enough under to match a primo market deal for Wallace? Doubtful.


Courtesy of Goose http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2846114&#post2846114

Shows where we can save money, don't agree with letting go of Clark.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 08:36 AM
So your going to get rid of half of your top tacklers? Do you have another MLB to start? I thought Ball, James, Brooking (can understand him leaving), Spencer all started games...

Tackle numbers don't really mean much. Somebody's gotta tackle somebody. They have Lee, they have Carter, they just need a backup ILB which they can get in teh draft in the middle rounds, and Spencer is a mediocre pass rusher. A Ray Edwards type. He can easily be replaced with a cheaper option or a better one in the draft.

Hell, they have Victor Butler already on their roster, and I've always felt that Butler is better than Spencer anyway. Spencer only started bc of he was a 1st round pick.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:37 AM
Courtesy of Goose http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2846114&#post2846114

Shows where we can save money, don't agree with letting go of Clark.

Your depth would still be getting gashed badly. I think your best bet with guys like Hampton would be to cut them outright and if no one else is interested, resign them later for veteran minimums.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:37 AM
They have Lee. Who is the best of the bunch. Maybe one comes back between James and Brooking. And they get someone else. Top tacklers is deceiving. Getting a ton of tackles isn't always a good thing.

I know about Lee, but I meant if you have a another since you run a 3-4. And that just adds to the number, so say bare minimum 3 mil. How will you shed 20 mil to get to Nicks?

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:39 AM
Your depth would still be getting gashed badly. I think your best bet with guys like Hampton would be to cut them outright and if no one else is interested, resign them later for veteran minimums.

Yeah, but with cutting Hampton outright we have nobody left to play the NT position, unless we want to chance it with Hood and rookie NT.

Everyone in the league knows Hampton only plays 2 downs, so someone will offer him just enough to play the backup role.

I do agree on letting go with Foote and Farrior.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:39 AM
I know about Lee, but I meant if you have a another since you run a 3-4. And that just adds to the number, so say bare minimum 3 mil. How will you shed 20 mil to get to Nicks?

You don't have to shed 20 million. I'm sure Nicks cap hit the first year of a contract would be under 5 million.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:41 AM
Yeah, but with cutting Hampton outright we have nobody left to play the NT position, unless we want to chance it with Hood and rookie NT.

Everyone in the league knows Hampton only plays 2 downs, so someone will offer him just enough to play the backup role.

I do agree on letting go with Foote and Farrior.

Hampton is 35, frequently overweight and out of shape AND coming off an ACL injury that required surgery.

Seriously, just chance it. If some other team does snatch him up, roll with what you have, draft a rookie and/or find some 320+ pound low level veteran to plug the hole.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:43 AM
You don't have to shed 20 million. I'm sure Nicks cap hit the first year of a contract would be under 5 million.

Your 9 mil over, adding James/Brooking for 3 mil, and signing him for just 5 mil would be releasing 17 mil. On top of 5-6 mil for rookie contracts, thats 22 mil.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:43 AM
Hampton is 35, frequently overweight and out of shape AND coming off an ACL injury that required surgery.

Seriously, just chance it. If some other team does snatch him up, roll with what you have, draft a rookie and/or find some 320+ pound low level veteran to plug the hole.

Chiefs would probably give him a chance in a heartbeat.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:44 AM
Don't underrate how creative teams can be when signing guys to deals. Who would have thought that Philly would have signed everyone they did last year AND still be $6 million under this year?

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 08:48 AM
Your 9 mil over, adding James/Brooking for 3 mil, and signing him for just 5 mil would be releasing 17 mil. On top of 5-6 mil for rookie contracts, thats 22 mil.

I think your math is off. They can find a way to get under if they really want him.

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:53 AM
Hampton is 35, frequently overweight and out of shape AND coming off an ACL injury that required surgery.

Seriously, just chance it. If some other team does snatch him up, roll with what you have, draft a rookie and/or find some 320+ pound low level veteran to plug the hole.

Oh yeah I forgot about the ACL. He won't even be playing this year, CUT it iz.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 08:53 AM
I think your math is off. They can find a way to get under if they really want him.

I dont understand how my math is off when I clearly stated where the money is going to...?

And who would help restructure their deals to help the team? Most are in the early stages of their new contracts, so they probably wouldn't.

brat316
02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
How could I forget 3 ACL injuries in 1 game?

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 08:59 AM
How could I forget 3 ACL injuries in 1 game?

The Giants had two in the Superbowl, both TEs. Crazy. I think they should be players for Finley if he hits the market. If not, look to draft someone. The guy from Clemson or at worst, Coby Fleener.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Don't want Finley. Too many drops, can't block. Dumb. He's the exact opposite of what we need in a Run N Shoot offense.

Damix
02-08-2012, 09:03 AM
The Giants had two in the Superbowl, both TEs. Crazy. I think they should be players for Finley if he hits the market. If not, look to draft someone. The guy from Clemson or at worst, Coby Fleener.

I've made my thoughts pretty clear in the Giants thread but I still don't think it is a first round need. Grab a Carlson, Kellen Davis, or hell even Martellus Bennett for cheap and grab a 3 or 4th rounder to develop. Those 2 + Pascoe, + Ballard and Beckum on PUP. We'll make due.

I don't see the Giants being huge players in FA this year, just depth.

bucfan12
02-08-2012, 09:03 AM
Manningham will get paid like Dexter Jackson did from his Super Bowl performance. Both are just role players that will be overpaid on the market.

I'd like Manningham as a #3 guy, but he's going to get paid this off-season. Something tells me it'll be the Redskins.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:03 AM
Don't want Finley. Too many drops, can't block. Dumb. He's the exact opposite of what we need in a Run N Shoot offense.

Ha, I'm glad I'm not the only person who hates that moron. Still, he's the best free agent likely to hit the market. Your other options are like Martellus Bennett, Visanthe Shiancoe and coming-off-of-injury John Carlson.

ehhhh....not great.

I've made my thoughts pretty clear in the Giants thread but I still don't think it is a first round need. Grab a Carlson, Kellen Davis, or hell even Martellus Bennett for cheap and grab a 3 or 4th rounder to develop. Those 2 + Pascoe, + Ballard and Beckum on PUP. We'll make due.

I don't see the Giants being huge players in FA this year, just depth.

You don't want Kellen Davis. He's like a 3rd TE as a blocker and that's about it. Get a TE who can actually contribute a little as a receiver.

brat316
02-08-2012, 09:04 AM
Martellus Bennet lolz

brat316
02-08-2012, 09:04 AM
Steelers are going to have to work some miracles if they want to put up a good defense, fix the oline and make the playoffs.

With lebeau, the defense will be taken care of. We already have young DEs ready to step in a play. Cbs we drafted last year have to start seeing significant time. They'll draft for the defense as always.

Retooling the oline, going back to the running game with ACL injury Mendy, and a new OC Haley, I don't know what to make of that.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 09:05 AM
I dont understand how my math is off when I clearly stated where the money is going to...?

And who would help restructure their deals to help the team? Most are in the early stages of their new contracts, so they probably wouldn't.

Well for one the allotted rookie pool was already included in those numbers on the first page.

Damix
02-08-2012, 09:07 AM
You don't want Kellen Davis. He's like a 3rd TE as a blocker and that's about it. Get a TE who can actually contribute a little as a receiver.

What was Jake Ballard? I'd rather spend money to resign Mario and keep those 3 receiving threats then spend big on a TE or draft one in the first round.

brat316
02-08-2012, 09:09 AM
How much do you have to spend? Does anybody know? Cause watch out for these teams.

Cincinnati Bengals $80,641,237

Tennessee Titans $92,739,765

Washington Redskins $94,351,284

Kansas City Chiefs $95,844,195

Tampa Bay Buccaneers $98,899,458

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 09:09 AM
You don't want Kellen Davis. He's like a 3rd TE as a blocker and that's about it. Get a TE who can actually contribute a little as a receiver.

That's what they said about Ballard. And we got by.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:10 AM
What was Jake Ballard? I'd rather spend money to resign Mario and keep those 3 receiving threats then spend big on a TE or draft one in the first round.

I don't think you want to spend that much to keep a 3rd WR either. He'll get paid more than he should to start somewhere else. I'd say good riddance.

And there's no reason your TE always has to be a 6th o-lineman out running routes. It's becoming an incredibly important position in today's league.

That's what they said about Ballard. And we got by.

Again, "getting by" isn't all you should desire at a position where having a stud can take your offense to the next level.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:11 AM
How much do you have to spend? Does anybody know? Cause watch out for these teams.

Cincinnati Bengals $80,641,237

Tennessee Titans $92,739,765

Washington Redskins $94,351,284

Kansas City Chiefs $95,844,195

Tampa Bay Buccaneers $98,899,458

I don't believe the salary floor comes into effect until 2013. Still, those teams will likely be dangerous if they choose to spend money. Could you imagine the Bengals or Titans signing Mario Williams?

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Well for one the allotted rookie pool was already included in those numbers on the first page.

"Second, keep in mind that teams must preserve at least $5 million to sign their rookie class. The more picks, the more cap space needed."

No where does it say its already added.

And this:
http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/

Same sites numbers, and it says you have to add the 5 mil for draft picks.

Damix
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
I don't think you want to spend that much to keep a 3rd WR either. He'll get paid more than he should to start somewhere else. I'd say good riddance.

And there's no reason your TE always has to be a 6th o-lineman out running routes. It's becoming an incredibly important position in today's league.



Again, "getting by" isn't all you should desire at a position where having a stud can take your offense to the next level.

Already have an elite passing offense, I don't want to make any changes.

Concentrate on bringing back the run game and keep feeding the defensive pipeline.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 09:16 AM
TE is going to be tricky for us this year.

brat316
02-08-2012, 09:18 AM
I don't believe the salary floor comes into effect until 2013. Still, those teams will likely be dangerous if they choose to spend money. Could you imagine the Bengals or Titans signing Mario Williams?

That is what I was thinking. Lucky for the Steelers, the Bengals are cheap as shiit. Mario Williams vs the pile of poo we put at LT or RT, Ben would have more than a sprained ankle.

Him on the Titans would be a slap in the face to the Texans but hey money talks.

Also read on Rotoworld, that Eagles are considering Tulloch. Would be a good move rather than going with a rookie again. But I can't see the Lions who are finally becoming note worthy letting go of their MLB.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:19 AM
"Second, keep in mind that teams must preserve at least $5 million to sign their rookie class. The more picks, the more cap space needed."

No where does it say its already added.

And this:
http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/

Same sites numbers, and it says you have to add the 5 mil for draft picks.

They project the cap at $124 million.

Therefore, we’ll safely project the salary cap to be at $124 million in ’12.

The teams under "Tightening the Belt" are the ones who, if you add the $5 million rookie class, will need be over without making any other changes.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:20 AM
How much do you have to spend? Does anybody know? Cause watch out for these teams.

Cincinnati Bengals $80,641,237

Tennessee Titans $92,739,765

Washington Redskins $94,351,284

Kansas City Chiefs $95,844,195

Tampa Bay Buccaneers $98,899,458

Cincy is going to have to resign Benson, Simpson, Collins, Nelson (did he do good?), Sims, Pacman, etc.

Titans have to resign Courtland, Griffin, Jones, and Scott.

Redskins are franchising Davis, and still need Fletcher, Landry, McIntosh, and maybe one or two more.

Chiefs have Bowe and Carr, maybe Weigmann, Gregg, Orton, McClain, Belcher, Jones.

Bucs have to resign pretty much no one, maybe Ronde and Josh Johnson.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 09:20 AM
"Second, keep in mind that teams must preserve at least $5 million to sign their rookie class. The more picks, the more cap space needed."

No where does it say its already added.

And this:
http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/

Same sites numbers, and it says you have to add the 5 mil for draft picks.

I stand corrected. However if the Cowboys want to get under for Nicks, they will. Teams always find a way. The Skins did it for years. Does Nicks want to leave. I understand that you're sensitive about him leaving, but should you be?

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:21 AM
i'm just happy denver has cap space and mcdaniels isn't around to spend it all on dan graham to power his te-screen based offense.

True, but anyone you sign will have to come in with the understanding that the first year will be a bust until Elway can finally get Tebow scraped off his damn shoe.

THEN you can start competing for realzies.

brat316
02-08-2012, 09:21 AM
i'm just happy denver has cap space and mcdaniels isn't around to spend it all on dan graham to power his te-screen based offense.

23 million is a good amount to bring in some mid level FAs. Well 17, save 5 for rookies. Maybe you can get another Rb and let go of Noshow.

I wonder what would happen if Denver signed Manning?

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:22 AM
23 million is a good amount to bring in some mid level FAs. Well 17, save 5 for rookies. Maybe you can get another Rb and let go of Noshow.

I wonder what would happen if Denver signed Manning?

Elway would be be rushed my a mob with torches and pitchforks, drawn and quartered, and then have is head placed on a pike by the Tebow fanatics. That's what.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:23 AM
They project the cap at $124 million.



The teams under "Tightening the Belt" are the ones who, if you add the $5 million rookie class, will need be over without making any other changes.

You aren't making any sense still.

Thats why they have the Rams, who sit at 120 mil, on the "Tightening the Belt" Because once you put in 5 mil, they are over the cap. Hence, they did not add the 5 mil.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:24 AM
I stand corrected. However if the Cowboys want to get under for Nicks, they will. Teams always find a way. The Skins did it for years. Does Nicks want to leave. I understand that you're sensitive about him leaving, but should you be?

Your fine.

He wants Evans money "plus inflation". Yes, I was a Nicks fan when we signed him, projected him to be a star (can ask some of my friends) I love him and know he is #2 priority.


And I don't see any of your high level guys restructuring to be honest, because they all basically have new deals, or last year restructured (Romo, Witten I believe)

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:24 AM
You aren't making any sense still.

Thats why they have the Rams, who sit at 120 mil, on the "Tightening the Belt" Because once you put in 5 mil, they are over the cap. Hence, they did not add the 5 mil.

That's right, they didn't. At no point in what I just said did I say they did.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:28 AM
It just came to my attention that Tracy Porter is also a free agent for the Saints this year. Why isn't he talked about with their big free agents like Nicks, Colston and Meachem?

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 09:28 AM
Your fine.

He wants Evans money "plus inflation". Yes, I was a Nicks fan when we signed him, projected him to be a star (can ask some of my friends) I love him and know he is #2 priority.


And I don't see any of your high level guys restructuring to be honest, because they all basically have new deals, or last year restructured (Romo, Witten I believe)

Haha not my guys. Don't you dare say that.

I'm just realistic and know the Cowboys can find a way to shed money if they really want to. But why would Nicks even want to leave as long as the money is fairly equal.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:31 AM
It just came to my attention that Tracy Porter is also a free agent for the Saints this year. Why isn't he talked about with their big free agents like Nicks, Colston and Meachem?

Because he regressed after the SB run and Patrick Robinson took his place towards the end of the year. And he probably will command too much money, especially since we have Greer, P-Rob, Johnny Patrick, Leigh Torrence.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-08-2012, 09:34 AM
Lamarr Woodley has restructured his deal, lowering his base salary to the veteran minimum of $700,000. The money will be paid in close-to-equal parts over the remaining years of his contract.

The move clears about $6.5 million in cap space. It's being rumored Timmons is next in line for a similar restructure.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:37 AM
Lamarr Woodley has restructured his deal, lowering his base salary to the veteran minimum of $700,000. The money will be paid in close-to-equal parts over the remaining years of his contract.

The move clears about $6.5 million in cap space. It's being rumored Timmons is next in line for a similar restructure.

Is the money going to the other years guarenteed?

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 09:37 AM
Because he regressed after the SB run and Patrick Robinson took his place towards the end of the year. And he probably will command too much money, especially since we have Greer, P-Rob, Johnny Patrick, Leigh Torrence.

Yeah, but Porter would be great in Spags' man heavy scheme. Kid was built for it and a guy I desperately wanted the giants to give spags when he came out. Greer's a good corner, but porter could be amazing and if you retain him, have P-Rob keep progressing, Greer and work on that pass rush a little you could have an elite defense and be superbowl locks, even if Brees is the only offensive FA you keep, especially palying in your dome where Brees is going to be nasty even with a weaker OL and receiving corps.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:42 AM
Lamarr Woodley has restructured his deal, lowering his base salary to the veteran minimum of $700,000. The money will be paid in close-to-equal parts over the remaining years of his contract.

The move clears about $6.5 million in cap space. It's being rumored Timmons is next in line for a similar restructure.

Heh, just keep shoving everything forward and deal with this same situation again in a few years.

Your defense is mostly old and most of the players need to go within the next year.

Steelers fans won't like it, but they need to face the sad reality that they're going to experience a time of rebuilding sooner rather than later.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:45 AM
Yeah, but Porter would be great in Spags' man heavy scheme. Kid was built for it and a guy I desperately wanted the giants to give spags when he came out. Greer's a good corner, but porter could be amazing and if you retain him, have P-Rob keep progressing, Greer and work on that pass rush a little you could have an elite defense and be superbowl locks, even if Brees is the only offensive FA you keep, especially palying in your dome where Brees is going to be nasty even with a weaker OL and receiving corps.

Greer is by far our best corner, and probably our 3rd best FA signing in the past decade (Brees and now Sproles the others)

I just think he would command too much money, while he would be (at best) our 4th priority in the offseason. If he wanted like 3-4 mil, wouldn't be too bad. But I see someone giving him a Jason David type contract and not living up to it.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-08-2012, 09:45 AM
Is the money going to the other years guarenteed?

I believe it is. It's being called a late signing bonus.

Link for confirmation:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4224/lamarr-woodley

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:47 AM
I believe it is. It's being called a late signing bonus.

Link for confirmation:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4224/lamarr-woodley

That wouldve been a very risky move if it wasn't.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:47 AM
Greer is by far our best corner, and probably our 3rd best FA signing in the past decade (Brees and now Sproles the others)

I just think he would command too much money, while he would be (at best) our 4th priority in the offseason. If he wanted like 3-4 mil, wouldn't be too bad. But I see someone giving him a Jason David type contract and not living up to it.

http://stratfordcharter.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/burnt_toast-724090.jpg

Easily one of the worst signings ever. EVER.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-08-2012, 09:49 AM
Heh, just keep shoving everything forward and deal with this same situation again in a few years.

Your defense is mostly old and most of the players need to go within the next year.

Steelers fans won't like it, but they need to face the sad reality that they're going to experience a time of rebuilding sooner rather than later.

I think this is LeBeau's last year, so they're keeping his guys for one more year.

After that, rebuild. I don't think it'll be as complicated as people think. Two offseasons should do it. We already have the two DEs, two (maybe three, depending on Worilds) of the LBs, and a bunch of young CBs (Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Cortez Allen).

I'm hoping for Burfict and Chapman this year, and safeties the next. Also a FA somewhere.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 09:53 AM
I think this is LeBeau's last year, so they're keeping his guys for one more year.

After that, rebuild. I don't think it'll be as complicated as people think. Two offseasons should do it. We already have the two DEs, two (maybe three, depending on Worilds) of the LBs, and a bunch of young CBs (Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, Cortez Allen).

I'm hoping for Burfict and Chapman this year, and safeties the next. Also a FA somewhere.

That's two too many for the Steeler fans I know. That 7-9 season a few years back nearly killed them. It's a spoiled fanbase that can't comprehend losing seasons. Hell, just losing in the Wildcard round this year had them on the ledge.

Also, Burfict? On the Steelers? I think they're more likely to draft your or I than they ever would be to touch someone like Burfict. Freakishly talented, certainly, but they've already got the NFL breathing down their neck for the hits Harrison puts on people. Burfict blowing a guy up or throwing a punch after the play would be tolerated for all of about 10 seconds.

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 09:54 AM
Greer is by far our best corner, and probably our 3rd best FA signing in the past decade (Brees and now Sproles the others)

I just think he would command too much money, while he would be (at best) our 4th priority in the offseason. If he wanted like 3-4 mil, wouldn't be too bad. But I see someone giving him a Jason David type contract and not living up to it.

Don't have to sell me on Greer, loved the guy when he played for the Bills, just think that Spags could turn Porter into an even better corner than Greer, and if Robinson keeps growing as well that's a trio that can be as good as any in the NFC. Give Spags corners like that and you won't need Colston or Meachum.

Hell, I think the Saints should just sign Brees and Porter, let Nicks walk and focus on signing Mario Williams. With that trio of corners and a DE rotation featuring guys like Mario, Cam Jordan and Will Smith and any offense featuring Brees and a solid running game and they'd be easy superbowl favorites.

Shane P. Hallam
02-08-2012, 09:57 AM
Steelers fans won't like it, but they need to face the sad reality that they're going to experience a time of rebuilding sooner rather than later.


Eh, the Steelers go about building the team in a unique way. The older positions (DE, OLB, CB,) all have young back-ups who are being developed and contributed this year. That does leave ILB, NT, etc, positions that need addressed soon.

With the way the team has drafted, rebuilding for Pittsburgh isn't the same as Jacksonville rebuilding.

zachsaints52
02-08-2012, 09:57 AM
Don't have to sell me on Greer, loved the guy when he played for the Bills, just think that Spags could turn Porter into an even better corner than Greer, and if Robinson keeps growing as well that's a trio that can be as good as any in the NFC. Give Spags corners like that and you won't need Colston or Meachum.

Hell, I think the Saints should just sign Brees and Porter, let Nicks walk and focus on signing Mario Williams. With that trio of corners and a DE rotation featuring guys like Mario, Cam Jordan and Will Smith and any offense featuring Brees and a solid running game and they'd be easy superbowl favorites.

I don't see that would help us overall. Yes, we would be better defensively, but our offense would hinder because your talking about letting a Top 10 (in my eyes) WR, a WR whose decent, and the best OG in football walk.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Eh, the Steelers go about building the team in a unique way. The older positions (DE, OLB, CB,) all have young back-ups who are being developed and contributed this year. That does leave ILB, NT, etc, positions that need addressed soon.

With the way the team has drafted, rebuilding for Pittsburgh isn't the same as Jacksonville rebuilding.

True, there are those in worse shape, but you fans here tend to put a lot of faith in guys like Worilds, Hood, Hayward, etc.

I'd prefer to see them actually contribute more. For instance, Worilds got some starts this year when Harrison and Woodley missed time and was invisible in what I saw.

If all of those guys work out and immediately contribute as starters, then yes, you might not be in too bad of shape. But there's hardly a guarantee of that happening and it will still leave your depth looking pretty thin with only so many draft picks to replace it. (Considering you need to address other areas like the o-line as well with them.)

brat316
02-08-2012, 10:03 AM
Eh, the Steelers go about building the team in a unique way. The older positions (DE, OLB, CB,) all have young back-ups who are being developed and contributed this year. That does leave ILB, NT, etc, positions that need addressed soon.

With the way the team has drafted, rebuilding for Pittsburgh isn't the same as Jacksonville rebuilding.

Eventually we are going to have to let someone walk to free up the cap space. We can't keep everyone forever.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:05 AM
Eventually we are going to have to let someone walk to free up the cap space. We can't keep everyone forever.

Hampton and Ward this year I predict. I wouldn't even try to keep them around. If no one else signs them, bring them back at veteran minimums.

brat316
02-08-2012, 10:07 AM
True, there are those in worse shape, but you fans here tend to put a lot of faith in guys like Worilds, Hood, Hayward, etc.

I'd prefer to see them actually contribute more. For instance, Worilds got some starts this year when Harrison and Woodley missed time and was invisible in what I saw.

If all of those guys work out and immediately contribute as starters, then yes, you might not be in too bad of shape. But there's hardly a guarantee of that happening and it will still leave your depth looking pretty thin with only so many draft picks to replace it. (Considering you need to address other areas like the o-line as well with them.)

Ehhh, I'm not convinced on Worilds. Good as a backup/ST, but it seemed like he was always a step late to the big play.

Hood, I don't know what to think. He has done a good job and being a 3-4 DE you are rarely noticed, unless your Justin Smith.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Ehhh, I'm not convinced on Worilds. Good as a backup/ST, but it seemed like he was always a step late to the big play.

Hood, I don't know what to think. He has done a good job and being a 3-4 DE you are rarely noticed, unless your Justin Smith.

I'll give you that Hood looked better when I saw him this year. Before that though, he looked completely overmatched and got shoved around a lot. I'd say the jury is still out on him but with Smith retiring, the starting job should be his.

Complex
02-08-2012, 10:28 AM
Cincy is going to have to resign Benson, Simpson, Collins, Nelson (did he do good?), Sims, Pacman, etc.

Titans have to resign Courtland, Griffin, Jones, and Scott.

Redskins are franchising Davis, and still need Fletcher, Landry, McIntosh, and maybe one or two more.

Chiefs have Bowe and Carr, maybe Weigmann, Gregg, Orton, McClain, Belcher, Jones.

Bucs have to resign pretty much no one, maybe Ronde and Josh Johnson.

No, we don't. They both suck. Jones will be cheap because he had a crappy season.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:34 AM
If you believe Griffin sucks then I think you overestimate the safety talent in the league. Go ahead and make a top 5. After about 3 names it gets hard.

Aging Ed Reed? Struggles to cover in a traditional safety role Polamalu? Eric Weddle? Daniel Manning? Youngins like Earl Thomas?

It's a very, very weak position in the league right now I think. I'd gladly take Griffin over the garbage the Bears have started the last couple years.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:39 AM
Also, back to the salary cap thing, the Patriots will have $18 million in space and ten thousand draft picks.

If they don't do something to drastically improve the defense and add a deep threat WR then seriously, **** those guys and their conservatism.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 10:43 AM
If you believe Griffin sucks then I think you overestimate the safety talent in the league. Go ahead and make a top 5. After about 3 names it gets hard.

Aging Ed Reed? Struggles to cover in a traditional safety role Polamalu? Eric Weddle? Daniel Manning? Youngins like Earl Thomas?

It's a very, very weak position in the league right now I think. I'd gladly take Griffin over the garbage the Bears have started the last couple years.

Pfffft it gets hard after Reed. For the high number of safeties drafted within the first 3 rounds, very few of them turn out.

brat316
02-08-2012, 10:46 AM
You would think with the amount of passing that happens in the college they would be good in coverage. But I guess the complexity of the systems make a big difference.

Jvig43
02-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Also, back to the salary cap thing, the Patriots will have $18 million in space and ten thousand draft picks.

If they don't do something to drastically improve the defense and add a deep threat WR then seriously, **** those guys and their conservatism.

Agreed, hoping for a big off season ala the 2007 one. Go get Djack or Vjack... or both.

brat316
02-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Also, back to the salary cap thing, the Patriots will have $18 million in space and ten thousand draft picks.

If they don't do something to drastically improve the defense and add a deep threat WR then seriously, **** those guys and their conservatism.

Vincent Jackson? Robert Meachem? Bryant Johnson?
They need to resign Wes, Branch.

Maybe they go after Mario Williams.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Agreed, hoping for a big off season ala the 2007 one. Go get Djack or Vjack... or both.

**** that noise. MIKE WALLACE. Rob a conference foe, young, elite speed, no headaches like DeSean.

Proceed to ball out like a crazy person. Wallace running deep routes will open so much up for those TEs. Brady might throw for 6000 yards.

And yes, do it even if it means letting go of Welker.

Wallace + Edelman in Welker's role >>>>> Welker and, let's say, Brandon Lloyd.

Throw in those TEs and holy god damn Batman.

brat316
02-08-2012, 10:53 AM
**** that noise. MIKE WALLACE. Rob a conference foe, young, elite speed, no headaches like DeSean.

Proceed to ball out like a crazy person. Wallace running deep routes will open so much up for those TEs. Brady might throw for 6000 yards.

I know you have to deal with super homer steelers fan all day, err day, but come on man, leave them alone.

Mike wallace is not going anywhere.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 10:57 AM
I know you have to deal with super homer steelers fan all day, err day, but come on man, leave them alone.

Mike wallace is not going anywhere.

THATS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT SANTONIO TOO! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

I feel awful for hoping for an all-out Steelers collapse, but it would please me endlessly to watch them toil in obscurity for the next 5 or so years while we win 3 consecutive Super Bowls after signing Mario Williams, Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks (While resigning Ben Grubbs, Ray Rice and Ladarius Webb. In my scenario, Flacco is traded and Tyrod Taylor leads us to the promised land 3 years in a row. TYROD).

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 10:59 AM
THATS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT SANTONIO TOO! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

I feel awful for hoping for an all-out Steelers collapse, but it would please me endlessly to watch them toil in obscurity for the next 5 or so years while we win 3 consecutive Super Bowls after signing Mario Williams, Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks (While resigning Ben Grubbs, Ray Rice and Ladarius Webb. In my scenario, Flacco is traded and Tyrod Taylor leads us to the promised land 3 years in a row. TYROD).

Ha. And Bengals fans with their $40 million in cap space and two first round picks will be watching you toil under Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco too as your key defenders continue to age.

brat316
02-08-2012, 11:07 AM
THATS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT SANTONIO TOO! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

I feel awful for hoping for an all-out Steelers collapse, but it would please me endlessly to watch them toil in obscurity for the next 5 or so years while we win 3 consecutive Super Bowls after signing Mario Williams, Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks (While resigning Ben Grubbs, Ray Rice and Ladarius Webb. In my scenario, Flacco is traded and Tyrod Taylor leads us to the promised land 3 years in a row. TYROD).

BastardO!!! *shakes fist in anger.

Mike Wallace has yet to get caught with Weed.

DiG
02-08-2012, 11:14 AM
Washington Redskins $94,351,284


not sure where that site got its info. skins are going to be at $86,920,063.
http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Also looks like they are going to franchise Fred Davis.

fenikz
02-08-2012, 11:31 AM
If AZ cuts Levi Brown and Kevin Kolb we save 41 mil, interesting

Razor
02-08-2012, 11:33 AM
not sure where that site got its info. skins are going to be at $86,920,063.
http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Also looks like they are going to franchise Fred Davis.

I think they're including dead money. The figure for the Patriots is about $6 mill higher than other places and the Pats owe roughly $6 mill in dead money.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 11:34 AM
If AZ cuts Levi Brown and Kevin Kolb we save 41 mil, interesting

That is...dare I say...Peyton Manning money.

brat316
02-08-2012, 11:34 AM
If AZ cuts Levi Brown and Kevin Kolb we save 41 mil, interesting

Enough to get P. Manning. Has AZ ever had a good LT or RT?

Nalej
02-08-2012, 11:36 AM
Also, back to the salary cap thing, the Patriots will have $18 million in space and ten thousand draft picks.

If they don't do something to drastically improve the defense and add a deep threat WR then seriously, **** those guys and their conservatism.

my thoughts exactly!

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't see that would help us overall. Yes, we would be better defensively, but our offense would hinder because your talking about letting a Top 10 (in my eyes) WR, a WR whose decent, and the best OG in football walk.

True. I just think that with a league average replacement for Nicks you'll still be able to run the ball, still have a great TE and some solid weapons. Plus I think if they went after the 3 guys I mentioned there'd still be money left over for Meachum. And with Brees and that dome that should more than enough weapons to have an excellent offense, maybe not as explosive as this years and might not put up the yards, but you wouldn't need them to do as much with a great D, and be better suited for playoff football because you're more versatile.

I fully admit that this is all simply because I love watching Spags have talent to work with and in general think that building a great defense is much more important than giving a great QB great weapons.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-08-2012, 11:38 AM
If AZ cuts Levi Brown and Kevin Kolb we save 41 mil, interesting

I'd pay $41 million to get rid of Kolb. The fact that you can get rewarded for it should make it a no-brainer.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 11:40 AM
I'd pay $41 million to get rid of Kolb. The fact that you can get rewarded for it should make it a no-brainer.

All the better if you get Peyton because no one will be pissy about the wasted draft picks and money paid to Kolb so far because YOU HAVE PEYTON ******* MANNING.

Hang onto Skelton as a backup...nice. There is no reason Arizona SHOULDN'T do it.

Scotty D
02-08-2012, 11:41 AM
I'd pay $41 million to get rid of Kolb. The fact that you can get rewarded for it should make it a no-brainer.

I'd give it a bit more time just because they gave up a 1st round and DRC. If he was just a free agent I'd be more for it.

fenikz
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Enough to get P. Manning. Has AZ ever had a good LT or RT?

Not in my lifetime aka since they moved to AZ

Reggie Wells is the best I can think of

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 11:44 AM
It's unfortunate Zona got hosed so hard on the Kolb deal, because if DRC ever figures out the intricacies of the CB position he's going to be very, very awesome. He's already good, but he's still young has as much potential as any CB in the league. Plus, PP and DRC would have been an INSANE young duo to build around.

And it's not like anyone thought Kolb would be good. It's another one of those Gabbert situations, where everyone not named Thumper knew he was going to blow enormous donkey ****. Just further evidence that I could, indeed, run an NFL franchise (If you're reading this Steve Biscotti, hook me up with a job. I'll FIRE CAM ******* CAMERON MYSELF!!!)

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 11:45 AM
I'd give it a bit more time just because they gave up a 1st round and DRC. If he was just a free agent I'd be more for it.

It was a 2nd round pick and if they can save that much money by getting rid of him now, just do it. Go all in after Peyton Manning and you still have John Skelton as plan B.

fenikz
02-08-2012, 11:46 AM
I'd give it a bit more time just because they gave up a 1st round and DRC. If he was just a free agent I'd be more for it.

2nd rounder*

But obviously we only cut Kolb for Peyton, Peyton roster bonus due March 8th, Kolb not til the 14th I think

And DRC just doesn't fit this type of defense sadly someone like Toler who is a solid tackler has more value, but he should be starting over Aso and Asante :)

Shane P. Hallam
02-08-2012, 11:55 AM
THATS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT SANTONIO TOO! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

I feel awful for hoping for an all-out Steelers collapse, but it would please me endlessly to watch them toil in obscurity for the next 5 or so years while we win 3 consecutive Super Bowls after signing Mario Williams, Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks (While resigning Ben Grubbs, Ray Rice and Ladarius Webb. In my scenario, Flacco is traded and Tyrod Taylor leads us to the promised land 3 years in a row. TYROD).

No way do the Jaguars sign Mario, VJax, and Nicks. That is who you are referencing with "we" isn't it?

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 11:56 AM
No way do the Jaguars sign Mario, VJax, and Nicks. That is who you are referencing with "we" isn't it?

That joke was funny like, 3 years ago. Not now.

brat316
02-08-2012, 11:57 AM
HAhah, I remember that. APS said he would become a Jags fan if Flacco was drafted or was it if he did good?

Nalej
02-08-2012, 11:59 AM
Nope, still funny.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 12:01 PM
Was drafting Flacco really a worse option that dealing with more Kyle Boller?

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 12:04 PM
Was drafting Flacco really a worse option that dealing with more Kyle Boller?

I was more upset with the fact that we were getting absolutely torched in the secondary and we just refused to draft a CB. It actually took until this year to get that done, oddly enough. I wanted Leodis McKelvin something bad that year at #8 though.

That, and I wasn't a big fan of Flacco as a prospect. Didn't see the accuracy (still don't, consistently anyways) or the pedigree to justify spending a Top 20 pick on him. I wanted us to take Leodis in Round 1 and Chad Henne in Round 2. I was also huge on Mike Jenkins and Brandon Flowers, who we could have got at #26 that year after we traded down.

jrdrylie
02-08-2012, 12:46 PM
Man I hate how much crap Flacco takes from Baltimore fans. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But he's 44-20 (equivalent to 11-5 per) in the regular season with five playoff wins. He has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, winning at least one game each year. I'm pretty sure that is the most regular season wins ever in a QB's first four seasons. 80% of the NFL would love to have that kind of success from their QB.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Man I hate how much crap Flacco takes from Baltimore fans. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But he's 44-20 (equivalent to 11-5 per) in the regular season with five playoff wins. He has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, winning at least one game each year. I'm pretty sure that is the most regular season wins ever in a QB's first four seasons. 80% of the NFL would love to have that kind of success from their QB.

Yeah, he's been a winner, no one would deny this. But his play specifically all those years is rarely above average.

He needs to take that next step to being a legitimate, can carry the team when needed type QB.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Man I hate how much crap Flacco takes from Baltimore fans. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But he's 44-20 (equivalent to 11-5 per) in the regular season with five playoff wins. He has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, winning at least one game each year. I'm pretty sure that is the most regular season wins ever in a QB's first four seasons. 80% of the NFL would love to have that kind of success from their QB.

I think most of the frustration comes from the fact that those wins haven't so much been because of Flacco, but in spite of him. While he has been successful in his early days in Baltimore, he's also had the luxury of playing on one of the most talented overall rosters in the NFL during that tenure. Very few teams consistently surround their young QBs with the type of talent the Ravens have, and most of the frustration with him comes from the fact that we very well could have won numerous Superbowls had his development exceeded what it has so far.

FootballGod
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Man I hate how much crap Flacco takes from Baltimore fans. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But he's 44-20 (equivalent to 11-5 per) in the regular season with five playoff wins. He has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, winning at least one game each year. I'm pretty sure that is the most regular season wins ever in a QB's first four seasons. 80% of the NFL would love to have that kind of success from their QB.

Baltimore wins in spite of Flacco. They have top 5 defenses every year. What you meant to say is that Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ngata, and Suggs are 44-20 in the regular season with five playoff wins. Flacco is riding their coat tales.

Complex
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Man I hate how much crap Flacco takes from Baltimore fans. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But he's 44-20 (equivalent to 11-5 per) in the regular season with five playoff wins. He has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, winning at least one game each year. I'm pretty sure that is the most regular season wins ever in a QB's first four seasons. 80% of the NFL would love to have that kind of success from their QB.

Around 80 percent of the starting QBs would just as many wins with the Ravens.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 12:55 PM
Around 80 percent of the starting QBs would just as many wins with the Ravens.

And most of that 20% would probably have at least one Superbowl appearance, if not Superbowl win.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 12:55 PM
I think most of the frustration comes from the fact that those wins haven't so much been because of Flacco, but in spite of him. While he has been successful in his early days in Baltimore, he's also had the luxury of playing on one of the most talented overall rosters in the NFL during that tenure. Very few teams consistently surround their young QBs with the type of talent the Ravens have, and most of the frustration with him comes from the fact that we very well could have won numerous Superbowls had his development exceeded what it has so far.

BAM! Avoid page trap and say it all before you bastards!

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 12:57 PM
I think Flacco is pretty clearly the second best guy on their offense. Take that how you will.

fenikz
02-08-2012, 12:58 PM
You're ignoring the o-line and Boldin?

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM
I think Flacco is pretty clearly the second best guy on their offense. Take that how you will.

I'd probably disagree with this. Ignoring position value, I'd venture to say Ray Rice, Vonta Leach, Marshall Yanda and Ben Grubbs are all "better" players then Flacco. You could probably make a halfway decent case for Mike Oher and Anquan Boldin too. I still think Boldin would be a hell of a receiver if he was utilized properly. If you let him work out of the slot and do most of his dmg underneath and after the catch instead of making him run those stupid ******* sideline routes, I think he's easily a 70 catch, 1000 yard and 8 TD guy no problem.

Complex
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM
I think Flacco is pretty clearly the second best guy on their offense. Take that how you will.

I think third and soon to be 4th if you are not counting lineman.

Edit: 4th soon to be 5th, forgot about Leach.

jrdrylie
02-08-2012, 01:04 PM
Sure he could have developed more. And yes, the defense and guys like Ray Rice should get much of the credit for those wins. But Flacco put the Ravens in position to go to the Super Bowl this year. Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff screwed it up.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 01:06 PM
Sure he could have developed more. And yes, the defense and guys like Ray Rice should get much of the credit for those wins. But Flacco put the Ravens in position to go to the Super Bowl this year. Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff screwed it up.

Yeah, that godawful interception he threw 5 minutes before at the Patriots 30 to Brandon Spikes of all people had nothing to do with us losing that game.

Shane P. Hallam
02-08-2012, 01:08 PM
That joke was funny like, 3 years ago. Not now.

It is still funny if I quote it:

im officially a jaguars fan now...bye bye terrible ravens who waste draft picks on horrible players...the only way the ravens could make this up to me would be by drafting quentin groves or brandon flowers, then i MIGHT forgive them


Who agrees?

scottyboy
02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
oh it's absolutely still hilarious.

the giants should just go after Ray Rice. yeah...that'd be nice

brat316
02-08-2012, 01:20 PM
Look on the bright side APS you did get Groves, on your new team.

cmarq83
02-08-2012, 02:15 PM
**** that noise. MIKE WALLACE. Rob a conference foe, young, elite speed, no headaches like DeSean.

Proceed to ball out like a crazy person. Wallace running deep routes will open so much up for those TEs. Brady might throw for 6000 yards.

And yes, do it even if it means letting go of Welker.

Wallace + Edelman in Welker's role >>>>> Welker and, let's say, Brandon Lloyd.

Throw in those TEs and holy god damn Batman.

This is a wise man. I suggested this like 3 months ago, and everyone gave me **** for it.

I really don't care what we do as long as we add some elite talent outside the hashes. Our corners suck and our outside receivers suck. We have a lot of resources to make something happen. If we got Wallace and someone like Carr, Webb, Grimes, Thomas, Greer, or Rogers to play on the outside we'd immediately improve. We're so good inside the hashes that all it takes one outside receiver, and then virtually no team matches up to us because of the TE's. The fact that Branch and Ocho are so terrible were literally our undoing.

AntoinCD
02-08-2012, 02:21 PM
This is a wise man. I suggested this like 3 months ago, and everyone gave me **** for it.

I really don't care what we do as long as we add some elite talent outside the hashes. Our corners suck and our outside receivers suck. We have a lot of resources to make something happen. If we got Wallace and someone like Carr, Webb, Grimes, Thomas, Greer, or Rogers to play on the outside we'd immediately improve. We're so good inside the hashes that all it takes one outside receiver, and then virtually no team matches up to us because of the TE's. The fact that Branch and Ocho are so terrible were literally our undoing.

Disagree about the CBs. Issue is with the safeties. If McCourty even gets remotely close to what he was last year and Dowling stays healthy then CB becomes a strength. If BB is worried about either of those happening then I'm all for drafting or picking up talent at CB.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 02:24 PM
You can never have too much CB depth. If you don't spend the money/draft picks on a deep threat WR or pass rusher, then CB is the next best place I think.

brat316
02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
How about somebody who can pressure other than 2 old guys and 1 awesome Lb?

Giantsfan1080
02-08-2012, 02:28 PM
I don't really want to start a new thread for this but does anyone have interest to do a collective NFLDC rankings of all the players in their position group? We can gather votes and then just assemble an NFLDC ranking. I know it was talked about earlier in the year and now would be a good down time to do so.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 02:35 PM
I don't really want to start a new thread for this but does anyone have interest to do a collective NFLDC rankings of all the players in their position group? We can gather votes and then just assemble an NFLDC ranking. I know it was talked about earlier in the year and now would be a good down time to do so.

TJ planned to do it after the Super Bowl. I remember he PMed certain members to figure out who could help form the NFLDC Top 100 kind of deal. I'd absolutely be down though.

cmarq83
02-08-2012, 02:36 PM
Disagree about the CBs. Issue is with the safeties. If McCourty even gets remotely close to what he was last year and Dowling stays healthy then CB becomes a strength. If BB is worried about either of those happening then I'm all for drafting or picking up talent at CB.

I could win the lottery tomorrow and then I'd be rich, but I'm not going to rely on that happening either. The fact of the matter is Dowling hasn't been healthy in years and McCourty was the only corner to give up 1000+ yards since they started tracking it 6 years ago. I'm not taking my chances with McCourty and Arrington for a 3rd straight year. Get somebody in the offseason there because there will be decent value to be had on the market. Safety is going to be a crapshoot so I'd avoid it in free agency.

I'd let McCourty play safety and corner in zone looks, and if he gets "it" back we go from there, but in the meantime it can't hurt to have CB depth.

Safety is another problem spot, but I don't think there is as simple of a fix available to us right now. Just going from Ihedigbo to somebody who is below average would greatly improve the team.

scottyboy
02-08-2012, 02:37 PM
an nfldc top 100 would be absolutely awesome

Brent
02-08-2012, 02:42 PM
an nfldc top 100 would be absolutely awesome
and inherently biased, rendering it worthless

Giantsfan1080
02-08-2012, 02:43 PM
I think ranking the guys by position would be better than an NFLDC 100 just because it's so difficult to compare offensive guys to defensive.

scottyboy
02-08-2012, 02:45 PM
and inherently biased, rendering it worthless

just because my top 5 would be Ray Rice, Britt, Brian Leonard, Chase Blackburn and Dave Tollefson doesn't mean it'd be biased

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 02:49 PM
TJ mentioned using 10-15 posters he respected to come up with unbiased results. Of course we all have our favorites, but hopefully they'd even themselves out.

brat316
02-08-2012, 03:00 PM
i would *highly* recommend doing it off-site, then posting the rankings back to the site for discussion.

I'm sure you meant criticism, name calling, and being told they are plain stupid

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
Let's just do it in here, first to one vote wins, down to 10, starting at QB.

1) Tim Tebow.

scottyboy
02-08-2012, 03:07 PM
1) Blaine Gabbert

vidae
02-08-2012, 03:09 PM
im officially a jaguars fan now...bye bye terrible ravens who waste draft picks on horrible players...the only way the ravens could make this up to me would be by drafting quentin groves or brandon flowers, then i MIGHT forgive them

Hey, at least you were right about Brandon Flowers being a stud!

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 03:46 PM
I'd rather have Blaine Gabbert than Tim Tebow. Why? Because no one will want to kill me when I cut Blaine Gabbert.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 03:53 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/08/steelers-cut-bryant-mcfadden-arnaz-battle/

The Steelers have started the cutting process. Bryant McFadden and Arnaz Battle are the first two casualties.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 03:57 PM
I'd rather have Blaine Gabbert than Tim Tebow. Why? Because no one will want to kill me when I cut Blaine Gabbert.


Yump, that's a sig quote.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 05:08 PM
I'd rather have Blaine Gabbert than Tim Tebow. Why? Because no one will want to kill me when I cut Blaine Gabbert.

Not to mention, Tebow is a better passer.

No really though, check the stats.

BeerBaron
02-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Not to mention, Tebow is a better passer.

No really though, check the stats.

I cannot argue with this.

brat316
02-08-2012, 05:17 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/08/steelers-cut-bryant-mcfadden-arnaz-battle/

The Steelers have started the cutting process. Bryant McFadden and Arnaz Battle are the first two casualties.

not surprising, here is to cutting Kemo next.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 08:38 AM
Couple of interesting nuggets:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/franchise-tag-could-be-coming-for-wes-welker/

Greg Bedard of the Boston Globe reports that the "Patriots WILL, not might but WILL," put the franchise tag on Wes Welker.

And that:

"Bedard also believes things will turn contentious, with Welker holding out as long as possible, showing up in the middle of the season, signing the franchise tender, and playing out the string of remaining games."

Sounds ugly.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/vincent-jackson-expected-to-hit-open-market/

Also, the Chargers are not expected to use the tag on Vincent Jackson, so he will be a free agent.

Matthew Jones
02-09-2012, 08:55 AM
The issue with Welker is that he's clearly deserving of a contract extension but he's probably going to want a longer deal than it is reasonable to pay a 31-year old wide receiver (his age at the start of the 2012 season) who takes a lot of punishment going over the middle. My idea of a reasonable contract for both sides would be something along the lines of three years and $24-27 million.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 08:59 AM
The issue with Welker is that he's clearly deserving of a contract extension but he's probably going to want a longer deal than it is reasonable to pay a 31-year old wide receiver (his age at the start of the 2012 season) who takes a lot of punishment going over the middle. My idea of a reasonable contract for both sides would be something along the lines of three years and $24-27 million.

There's no denying that his production is phenomenal and he's the best at that "slot guy over the middle" role.

But, for the kind of money being talked about with a 31 year old WR and the amount the franchise tag would require him to be paid...I'd honestly consider letting him go.

Obviously, another guy wouldn't be able to match his production exactly, but if you were to say, slot Edelman into that role and then use the money you save to go after a Vincent Jackson or a Mike Wallace, I think you'll have a better overall gain for your offense.

Plus you have the TEs to help out in the possession receiving game.

fenikz
02-09-2012, 09:22 AM
Boldin got 4/28 with similar wear and tear, add a few mil for inflation and because he is a better player, 4/35 seems about right

J-Mike88
02-09-2012, 09:42 AM
...I'd honestly consider letting him go.

Obviously, another guy wouldn't be able to match his production exactly, but if you were to say, slot Edelman into that role and then use the money you save to go after a Vincent Jackson or a Mike Wallace, I think you'll have a better overall gain for your offense.

Plus you have the TEs to help out in the possession receiving game.
I agree with that for sure.
If they swapped Edelman into that role and added a deep threat like V-Jack or Wallace, imagine that offense with the healthy TE's back.

I don't see Wallace ending up there, but Jackson seems plausible.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 09:47 AM
if edelman had the full-time role, i don't think you'd see a bit of difference. and i don't believe that welker would be anywhere near as effective if he left new england. the pats should just be done with him and use the money elsewhere.

Well, I think there would still be some drop off.

Welker and that offense are perfect for eachother. I don't think Edelman would catch 122 passes for 1500 yards, but would something like 80 catches for 1000 be unreasonable? I don't think so.

And if you get that production out of Edelman, plus pick up a deep threat with the money you save by letter Welker go, the overall gain for the offense would be a lot better than simply bringing Welker back plus some 2nd or 3rd (or worse) tier FA like a Brandon Lloyd.

I agree with that for sure.
If they swapped Edelman into that role and added a deep threat like V-Jack or Wallace, imagine that offense with the healthy TE's back.

I don't see Wallace ending up there, but Jackson seems plausible.

I'm leading the crusade for the Pats to steal Wallace from the Steelers. It would be so epic. That offense would be un-*******-stoppable.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-09-2012, 10:08 AM
Yeah, I don't think the Pats would be foolish to move on.

Razor
02-09-2012, 10:45 AM
i dunno. i think welker is talented, but i think the only reason his numbers look that good is scheme. this is a scheme that the pats were perfecting for years before they had a proper slot receiver, and i don't think edelman is really that much less talented than welker that he couldn't put up the same numbers. further, i think welker goes to another team and turns into eddie royal. not bad, but not a whole lot better than average as a #3 wr.
WW absolutely killed the Patriots whenever we played him before BB went out and got him. I think he'd produce just about anywhere as long as he has a competent QB throwing him the ball.
Yeah, I don't think the Pats would be foolish to move on.
Neither do I, but I wouldn't like him to play for anyone but the Patriots. However, if we could franchise him and get a first plus something extra I wouldn't be opposed to it. I think other players would step up and Brady would adjust nicely to not having Welker.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 10:47 AM
WW absolutely killed the Patriots whenever we played him before BB went out and got him. I think he'd produce just about anywhere as long as he has a competent QB throwing him the ball.

Neither do I, but I wouldn't like him to play for anyone but the Patriots. However, if we could franchise him and get a first plus something extra I wouldn't be opposed to it. I think other players would step up and Brady would adjust nicely to not having Welker.

You're not going to get a first for a franchised 31 year old 5'10 WR who wants to be paid big money in a long term deal.

So scratch that idea out of your head right now.

Nalej
02-09-2012, 10:59 AM
You guys are either underestimating Welker or overestimating Edelman. Edelman is serviceable. He's not close to being WW in the slot.

You're not going to get a first for a franchised 31 year old 5'10 WR who wants to be paid big money in a long term deal.

So scratch that idea out of your head right now.

It only takes one team... but I agree. I could still see him being traded though.


I'd personally like him to stay, we have the cap space to keep him and add pieces.
If he's going to L.Mankins' it up though... no thank you

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 11:06 AM
You guys are either underestimating Welker or overestimating Edelman. Edelman is serviceable. He's not close to being WW in the slot.


Like I said, I wouldn't see Edelman getting 120 catches and 1500 yards. But if you put him in Welker's role and added Vincent Jackson over the top, I think Edelman would get 80 catches and 100 yards to go along with what Jackson and the TEs would provide.

It would be an overall greater benefit to your offense than resigning Welker for top 5 WR money and making do with someone lesser as a deep threat.

A Perfect Score
02-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Hell, sign Steve Smith on the cheap and let him work out of the slot. He did the same **** In NY that Welker does for NE.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-09-2012, 11:11 AM
Seriously, if Welker's content with the whole hold out thing, let him go, and get yourself Mike Wallace, re-up Branch at a fair deal, draft someone like Tommy Streeter to develop.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 11:21 AM
Seriously, if Welker's content with the whole hold out thing, let him go, and get yourself Mike Wallace, re-up Branch at a fair deal, draft someone like Tommy Streeter to develop.

He and Ryan Mallett (whose name I brainfarted on so I googled "cokehead from Arkansas" and reminded myself) will be hooking up for big scores in 2 years when Belichick trades Brady just before he starts his decline.

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 11:26 AM
OMG, an offense with Mallett, Wallace, Streeter, and teh Gronkzz would be so tits.

9 routes all day, baby! Hit dem fadez.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 11:29 AM
OMG, an offense with Mallett, Wallace, Streeter, and teh Gronkzz would be so tits.

9 routes all day, baby! Hit dem fadez.

http://i.imgur.com/8NwKH.jpg

Nalej
02-09-2012, 11:32 AM
Like I said, I wouldn't see Edelman getting 120 catches and 1500 yards. But if you put him in Welker's role and added Vincent Jackson over the top, I think Edelman would get 80 catches and 100 yards to go along with what Jackson and the TEs would provide.

It would be an overall greater benefit to your offense than resigning Welker for top 5 WR money and making do with someone lesser as a deep threat.

Bolded: If he does this then he'll be the worst receiver in the league :)

Seriously though, 80/1000 is still too much imo. 50/60 and 700 (Branch like numbers) is what I'd expect with Hernandez/Gronk/(FA deep threat pick up; Wallace or VJax would be ideal) picking up the slack left over Welker missing.

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 11:34 AM
^^^^ I agree with the above. Branch-type numbers seems about right.

Hernandez would likely pick up most of the slack underneath.

BradysKnee
02-09-2012, 11:37 AM
Yeah I really expect NE to go for Wallace or Stevie Johnson. I kinda half expect a Welker tag & trade too. Pittsburgh cannot afford to match an RFA offer at this time so I'm almost certain someone is nabbing Wallace. NE/Cinci/Cleveland are my picks.

brat316
02-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Not if we tag him

Nalej
02-09-2012, 11:39 AM
i sincerely disagree. he gets less snaps, but he's the same player. i don't think there's anything special welker does, beyond playing in an offense that's a perfect fit for his skillset with a quarterback who's at his best throwing the kind of routes welker runs. he'd be a 50 catch guy in denver.





It's the chemistry though. Have you seen Brady throw to Edelman? They always seem like they're not always on the same page. While Brady and Wes communicate via telepathy.
Granted, Edelman might get there with Brady eventually but definitely not next year.
It'll probably happen his contract year so he can hold out and leave as well.

Nalej
02-09-2012, 11:40 AM
Yeah I really expect NE to go for Wallace or Stevie Johnson. I kinda half expect a Welker tag & trade too. Pittsburgh cannot afford to match an RFA offer at this time so I'm almost certain someone is nabbing Wallace. NE/Cinci/Cleveland are my picks.

I'll give up a 1st for Wallace easy.
(It's just a 1st, right? Not a 1st/2nd or 1st/3rd anymore?)

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 11:41 AM
Yup, just a 1st. And no way PIT is gonna be able to match whatever contract a team throws at him.

Shane P. Hallam
02-09-2012, 11:42 AM
I'll give up a 1st for Wallace easy.
(It's just a 1st, right? Not a 1st/2nd or 1st/3rd anymore?)

Yup, it will cost a first for Mike Wallace.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Hell, sign Steve Smith on the cheap and let him work out of the slot. He did the same **** In NY that Welker does for NE.

I don't think the lack of a complex scheme that really takes advantage of smart and shifty slot guys was the only problem Smith had this year. I think he just wasn't healthy at any point and I'm not sure he'll be back to where he was before the injury next year.

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 11:44 AM
I don't think the lack of a complex scheme that really takes advantage of smart and shifty slot guys was the only problem Smith had this year. I think he just wasn't healthy at any point and I'm not sure he'll be back to where he was before the injury next year.

Microfracture surgery, correct?

Stick a fork in him.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Microfracture surgery, correct?

Stick a fork in him.

I think so, but I'm too lazy to google it. Either way I think he needs another year to work on getting healthy and he might be able to help a patient team later in the season. Wouldn't mind bringing him back to the giants to see if he can't get healthy at any point in the season. If Mario leaves like it seems he wants to we'll have Jernigan, Barden and Devin Thomas battling for the third WR spot. While I actually like all 3 of those guys I'd like the giants to bring in a vet as well, dream scenario we sign Robinson to be pencilled in as the #3 but need to still prove he deserves the job over the summer. Then bring Steve in and stick him on PUP to see if he can get healthy so that when Robinson gets hurt we have someone who can step in should Jernigan and Barden prove to be busts.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Barden sucks. Let it go.

Laurent Robinson is legit. There were times when I'd see him on the field, and I thought it was Miles Austin. He runs just like him.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Not if we tag him

Ha, yeah. You're going to franchise tag someone with your salary cap situation.

You're pretty much just going to have to put the highest RFA tender on him and pray.

brat316
02-09-2012, 12:07 PM
We cut down about 10 million, I think another 5 or so since Timmons did his today. If we cut Casey Hampton and save 8 there, Hines 2, and do a little bit here and there we can resign/tag Wallace and sign a few of our other guys.

BradysKnee
02-09-2012, 12:17 PM
We cut down about 10 million, I think another 5 or so since Timmons did his today. If we cut Casey Hampton and save 8 there, Hines 2, and do a little bit here and there we can resign/tag Wallace and sign a few of our other guys.

You'd be hardpressed again and have no wiggle room after signing draft picks. It's not realistic to resign Wallace.

Giantsfan1080
02-09-2012, 12:23 PM
Barden will replace Manningham's numbers next year. You heard it here first. He might even get more TD's because he's a bigger red zone threat.

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 12:25 PM
http://i.imgur.com/8NwKH.jpg

http://b.images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/14318465.jpg

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 12:27 PM
Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

Razor
02-09-2012, 12:28 PM
You're not going to get a first for a franchised 31 year old 5'10 WR who wants to be paid big money in a long term deal.

So scratch that idea out of your head right now.

WW looked faster and more explosive this year than any of the other years. He caught the ball better (SB excluded) than before too. I would probably "settle" for a late first or equivalent value since I think he is that good. He's not only a product of Brady, neither is Brady a product of WW. They're co-dependent and I think WW deserves some of the credit. I don't think WW is going to want big money either. I think $7 mill. per year is fair as long as there are some incentives included. He's earned that contract imo, even though he wasn't playing for pennies before either.

Sloopy
02-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-09-2012, 12:42 PM
OMG, an offense with Mallett, Wallace, Streeter, and teh Gronkzz would be so tits.

9 routes all day, baby! Hit dem fadez.

It'd be orgasmic. I think we all know what's going to happen though.

Franchise Welker, let Branch go, sign Lloyd, draft 4th round WR (T.Y. Hilton?)

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-09-2012, 12:51 PM
Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

Denver's D is really overrated. I seriously don't get it. 20th in yards and 24th in points. They have some nice pieces on defense certainly, but they have a ways to go before they're even an above average defense. The reason we won so many games is that the running game was so prolific and Tebow was able to do some crazy things in 4th quarters. It wasn't the defense carrying the team like the 2000 Ravens.

San Diego SHOULD still win the West. Rivers and a bunch of scrubs>>>>>>>>>> the scrubs of the AFC West that don't have Rivers. I just hope Tebow makes enough progression this offseason to the point where he's at least a decent passer, most of the time. That game against the Steelers gave me hope, we know he has it in him to be able to make good throws, just has to do it consistently. If he can do that, we might have a shot at the division again. But he's not taking anyone by surprise anymore if he doesn't improve. Second games against the Chiefs and Patriots we put up a combined 13 points. Not gonna cut it, even if our defense gets as good as people pretend it is.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 12:55 PM
My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

Matt Cassel is the 2nd best QB in the division. Scary eh?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-09-2012, 12:56 PM
My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

I still think San Diego should win. It's a QB driven league and they're the only team in the division with an above average QB. And it's been that way since the Cutler trade. If the Chiefs defense steps up to being an elite unit, and Charles comes back and has a great year, I can understand it, but otherwise, I'll be shocked if San Diego doesn't win, same way I am every year they don't. No excuses in that division.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Barden sucks. Let it go.

Laurent Robinson is legit. There were times when I'd see him on the field, and I thought it was Miles Austin. He runs just like him.

Probably. But he'll get one more year from this team and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he actually did well if he's healthy when it's his turn to see the field.

Laurent Robinson is the guy I'd most like to bring in, he's going to get hurt at somepoint, but he'd do great to start the season while we groom Jernigan a little more.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

I think it's because Tebow got me to start praying that he's able to keep doing what he's done. Now the Chargers are going to fall apart, the Raiders will keep self-imploding and the Chiefs will keep Cassel as their QB...

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 01:12 PM
Probably. But he'll get one more year from this team and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he actually did well if he's healthy when it's his turn to see the field.

Laurent Robinson is the guy I'd most like to bring in, he's going to get hurt at somepoint, but he'd do great to start the season while we groom Jernigan a little more.

He deserves preseason and nothing more. If he can't show us something in the preseason, then he needs to get cut. There's absolutely no point of keeping a WR as your 4th/5th guy when he's constantly hurt, never sees the goalline, and can't play special teams. He provides nothing to the team in that situation.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:13 PM
He deserves preseason and nothing more. If he can't show us something in the preseason, then he needs to get cut. There's absolutely no point of keeping a WR as your 4th/5th guy when he's constantly hurt, never sees the goalline, and can't play special teams. He provides nothing to the team in that situation.

Ramses Barden not having a huge TC? BBD have you just erased all memory of everything that happened before we won the Superbowl? Ramses Barden is great at two things, riding the bike, and dominating training camp when he's not a rookie.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 01:16 PM
Ramses Barden not having a huge TC? BBD have you just erased all memory of everything that happened before we won the Superbowl? Ramses Barden is great at two things, riding the bike, and dominating training camp when he's not a rookie.

I meant preseason games. Not just practice in shorts.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:17 PM
i disagree. if it weren't for tebow's near complete inability to convert a third down, well, ever, i think our d's numbers look rather dramatically different. nearly without fail, the only reason we were in a game for tebow to 'win' was because our defense wasn't breaking and because colquitt was making up for our offensive ineptitude. for instance, after our bye week, we held the opposing team under 20 half the time. we scored more than 20 3 times. in two out of the three games we gave up over 40 during that span, tebow was utterly and completely atrocious in 2 of them. the third was against the eventual afc champion. and all of this was with a defense that had one viable starter in the secondary, one decent linebacker, and journeymen at DT. a great defense? no. a pretty good one? absolutely.

I really like some of those pieces you guys have.

Ayers-Bunkley-???-Doom
Miller-???-DJ Williams

isn't a bad start on the front 7. Not sure if Mays is the guy to make it all work from the middle, but if you guys add a stud DT and fix that secondary he might be good enough.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:20 PM
I meant preseason games. Not just practice in shorts.

But he'll be on the PUP list by then. How can he play in the preseason games if he's hurt?

-Vw2CrY9Igs

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 01:22 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Ian Gold?! I love being reminded of bad 00s football players.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 01:24 PM
i disagree. if it weren't for tebow's near complete inability to convert a third down, well, ever, i think our d's numbers look rather dramatically different. nearly without fail, the only reason we were in a game for tebow to 'win' was because our defense wasn't breaking and because colquitt was making up for our offensive ineptitude. for instance, after our bye week, we held the opposing team under 20 half the time. we scored more than 20 3 times. in two out of the three games we gave up over 40 during that span, tebow was utterly and completely atrocious in 2 of them. the third was against the eventual afc champion. and all of this was with a defense that had one viable starter in the secondary, one decent linebacker, and journeymen at DT. a great defense? no. a pretty good one? absolutely.

I think that outside of Von Miller, Denver's defense last year was just the conglomeration of a lot of mediocre players overachieving.

Dumervil wasn't much of a factor...Joe Mays? Marcus Thomas? Brodrick Bunkley? Meh, meh and meh. All free agents to boot. Woodyard? Also meh. Also a free agent. Robert Ayers? Worse than meh. Rafael Bush? Cassius Vaughn? Who?

Champ Bailey is also 33 so I give him another year or two at most.

The defense seriously overachieved for a stretch. Not to mention that during that stretch of wins, they faced the QBing awesomeness of, in order, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Mark Sanchez, Philip Rivers having a ****** year, Christian Ponder and Caleb Hanie.

And Tom Brady, the one healthy good QB you faced, just ****** you up. Like, badly. Twice.

Although if you manage to sign Mario Williams, Curtis Lofton and like Brandon Carr, we can certainly talk more about it.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:27 PM
ty warren would fill in the other DT if he's ever healthy again. and i hate dj williams. he's never been the same since mike shanahan moved him out of WLB for ******* ian homeless-guy's-version-of-ernie-sims gold.

ideally, nate irving is ready to step in next year. joe mays is fine in a relief role, but he's just not good enough to be more than an occasional player.

Totally forgot you guys have Irving. Hell, if you guys can find a stud DT so that you're not depending on Ty Warren's health, That would be a very good front 7 that just need another rotational DE to keep guys fresh and make sure you never loss your ability to rush the passer. It would be cool if you guys and the Bills could fuse your defenses. Dareus-Kyle Williams with those edge guys would be amazing...so yeah, that Denver defense, people think it's good because it did a good job considering how much it was on the field and has some very nice pieces to build a great D out of.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-09-2012, 01:28 PM
Lawrence Timmons has restructured his deal today, lowering his base salary to $700,000 and moving a signing bonus from this year to equal parts in the remaining year in his contract.

The move saves $5.14 million, meaning the Steelers have saved a little over $15 million during the past three days, and are only $5 million away from being under the cap.

They still need to shed more cap room to resign players and draft picks, but this is going better than expected. Assuming we need to shed $25 million more to keep Wallace ($5 more to be under, $5 for rookies, $15 for our FAs), here's what could happen:

Release OG Chris Kemoeatu - save $3.577 million
Release ILB Larry Foote - save $3.00 million

--- Now under the cap

Release Jonathan Scott - save $2.2 million
Release Will Allen - save $1.28 million
Restructure Casey Hampton - save $3.89 million
Restructure Hines Ward - save $3 million

That's $17 million so far. Roethlisberger will probably also get a restructure, maybe Polamalu or Harrison too.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:28 PM
I think that outside of Von Miller, Denver's defense last year was just the conglomeration of a lot of mediocre players overachieving.

Dumervil wasn't much of a factor...Joe Mays? Marcus Thomas? Brodrick Bunkley? Meh, meh and meh. All free agents to boot. Woodyard? Also meh. Also a free agent. Robert Ayers? Worse than meh. Rafael Bush? Cassius Vaughn? Who?

Champ Bailey is also 33 so I give him another year or two at most.

The defense seriously overachieved for a stretch. Not to mention that during that stretch of wins, they faced the QBing awesomeness of, in order, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Mark Sanchez, Philip Rivers having a ****** year, Christian Ponder and Caleb Hanie.

And Tom Brady, the one healthy good QB you faced, just ****** you up. Like, badly. Twice.

Although if you manage to sign Mario Williams, Curtis Lofton and like Brandon Carr, we can certainly talk more about it.

Bunkley was a great run stuffer for the eagles and exactly the type of guy they needed in the middle of their defense to make the wide-9 with those LBs anything less than terrible.

I really think that a stud DT makes that a strong front 7 that could be a great defense if you figured out a way to make the secondary as good. It's not like there's any reason for them to spend picks or money on offensive players this year.

brat316
02-09-2012, 01:29 PM
What happened to Rahim Moore?

brat316
02-09-2012, 01:30 PM
Lawrence Timmons has restructured his deal today, lowering his base salary to $700,000 and moving a signing bonus from this year to equal parts in the remaining year in his contract.

The move saves $5.14 million, meaning the Steelers have saved a little over $15 million during the past three days, and are only $5 million away from being under the cap.

They still need to shed more cap room to resign players and draft picks, but this is going better than expected. Assuming we need to shed $25 million more to keep Wallace ($5 more to be under, $5 for rookies, $15 for our FAs), here's what could happen:

Release OG Chris Kemoeatu - save $3.577 million
Release ILB Larry Foote - save $3.00 million

--- Now under the cap

Release Jonathan Scott - save $2.2 million
Release Will Allen - save $1.28 million
Restructure Casey Hampton - save $3.89 million
Restructure Hines Ward - save $3 million

That's $17 million so far. Roethlisberger will probably also get a restructure, maybe Polamalu or Harrison too.

I thought Hampton was at 8?

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 01:36 PM
Keep pushing that money back, baby!!!

Honestly, restructuring guys like Hampton and Ward is a terrible, terrible idea.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-09-2012, 01:36 PM
I thought Hampton was at 8?

His total cap charge is, but his base salary is only about half of that, and from what I understand, the other 4 is guaranteed for this year.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-09-2012, 01:37 PM
ty warren would fill in the other DT if he's ever healthy again. and i hate dj williams. he's never been the same since mike shanahan moved him out of WLB for ******* ian homeless-guy's-version-of-ernie-sims gold.

ideally, nate irving is ready to step in next year. joe mays is fine in a relief role, but he's just not good enough to be more than an occasional player.


Is Woodyard any good? I've always been a fan and has looked solid when I've seen him.

BradysKnee
02-09-2012, 01:46 PM
Lawrence Timmons has restructured his deal today, lowering his base salary to $700,000 and moving a signing bonus from this year to equal parts in the remaining year in his contract.

The move saves $5.14 million, meaning the Steelers have saved a little over $15 million during the past three days, and are only $5 million away from being under the cap.

They still need to shed more cap room to resign players and draft picks, but this is going better than expected. Assuming we need to shed $25 million more to keep Wallace ($5 more to be under, $5 for rookies, $15 for our FAs), here's what could happen:

Release OG Chris Kemoeatu - save $3.577 million
Release ILB Larry Foote - save $3.00 million

--- Now under the cap

Release Jonathan Scott - save $2.2 million
Release Will Allen - save $1.28 million
Restructure Casey Hampton - save $3.89 million
Restructure Hines Ward - save $3 million

That's $17 million so far. Roethlisberger will probably also get a restructure, maybe Polamalu or Harrison too.

You're assuming those guys will restructure.

Punisher
02-09-2012, 01:46 PM
That post prior was by far the most optimistic post I've seen from NJX on the Broncos in idk how long.

brat316
02-09-2012, 01:49 PM
You're assuming those guys will restructure.

Ward will. Hampton just cut him yo.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-09-2012, 01:50 PM
You're assuming those guys will restructure.

It's either that or they get cut. If they get cut we get even more cap room. Hines was the #5 receiver, it would be more of a sentimental loss than an actual football loss. Hampton can still play, but he's old with bad knees.

I don't think either would get a large contract on another team, being 35, declining, and in the case of Hampton, injured.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:50 PM
I even kinda like Ayers, I think he'll improve on this season now that he's back at LE in a 4-3. He was a good run defender and could become a guy who moves inside for Bunk on passing downs so that Miller can put his pay in the dirt and another DB can come onto the field.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:52 PM
That post prior was by far the most optimistic post I've seen from NJX on the Broncos in idk how long.

I've been saying this for a little while now, but Tim Tebow broke logic. We now live in a world of pure chaos where anything can happen. JBCX predicted the Giants making the superbowl, NJX gets positive on the broncos and Jeremy Lin makes Linning a thing.

DraftSavant
02-09-2012, 01:57 PM
You're assuming those guys will restructure.

Guys are always willing to restructure. The salary becomes signing bonus/guaranteed money.

A restructuring is not a paycut.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:19 PM
How is Nate Irving doing? I had a huge mancrush on the guy during the draft. I thought he'd be a stud.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:23 PM
who knows, i don't think he played a live down all season.

How was he in PS? Any flashes? I'm surprised he didn't play at all for you guys.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Seriously, Hampton just needs cut. I feel like a broken record but:

- He's 35
- He always shows up to camp overweight and out of shape
- Suffered an ACL injury in the playoff game that required surgery
- Will count $8.1 million against the cap next year.
- He's 35, overweight and out of shape and had an ACL injury that required surgery

Seriously. **** bringing him back. Steeler fans get this stupid boner-inducing attachment to anyone who spends more than like 4 years on the team, particularly defenders.

Cut him and sign literally anyone cheaper and you'll get the same impact.

Constantly pushing guaranteed money forward just means you'll be facing an even worse situation down the line.

Jughead10
02-09-2012, 02:27 PM
You can always cut and then re-sign him at the vet minimum with an incentive or two.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/ballard-beckum-expected-to-start-next-season-on-pup-list/

Ballard and Beckum likely to start the 2012 season on the PUP list. The Giants badly need TE depth.

keylime_5
02-09-2012, 02:30 PM
I want the Redskins to sign Manning and the Dolphins to sign Flynn so Griffinzzzzzzzzomg ends up in Cleveland w/o trading all our good picks.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:31 PM
Fleener is looking like a lock for us right now. Which sucks, bc Burfict is growing on me and I would love to grab him in the 1st.

AntoinCD
02-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Fleener is looking like a lock for us right now. Which sucks, bc Burfict is growing on me and I would love to grab him in the 1st.

Eh, I don't get the Burfict love. High ceiling and all but I don't buy the hype.

I think if the Giants some how kept Manningham and added Fleener in the draft that passing attack could be ridiculous though

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Eh, I don't get the Burfict love. High ceiling and all but I don't buy the hype.

I think if the Giants some how kept Manningham and added Fleener in the draft that passing attack could be ridiculous though

Cause -> Effect

The guy has freakish talent but he's already got a James Harrison reputation without having even played a down yet in the NFL. If he looks at a guy wrong after the play, flags will be flying.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Eh, I don't get the Burfict love. High ceiling and all but I don't buy the hype.

I think if the Giants some how kept Manningham and added Fleener in the draft that passing attack could be ridiculous though

I'm still scouting Burfict, so my opinion on him could change.

Fleener, my worry with him is he's probably a 4.7-4.8 at 245 lbs. He'll need to get to 265-270 lbs in our system bc you block so much in the run game and the TE's ability to set the edge vs DEs is critical to the success of our offense.

Now when he packs on that weight, how fast is he gonna be? I don't see the point of getting a slow TE in the 1st round.

That's my concern.

Complex
02-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Mario Williams will have a 22.9 million dollar tag if he gets franchised. He is not coming back. The Texans are like 20mil over the cap.


Mario Williams future titan.

Vox Populi
02-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Giants should just go after Carlson instead of drafting a TE.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm still scouting Burfict, so my opinion on him could change.

Fleener, my worry with him is he's probably a 4.7-4.8 at 245 lbs. He'll need to get to 265-270 lbs in our system bc you block so much in the run game and the TE's ability to set the edge vs DEs is critical to the success of our offense.

Now when he packs on that weight, how fast is he gonna be? I don't see the point of getting a slow TE in the 1st round.

That's my concern.

You won a Superbowl starting Ballard on one bad knee for the last chunk of the season. I think it's pretty clear that speed is not high on the priority list at TE for the Giants.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:40 PM
You won a Superbowl starting Ballard on one bad knee for the last chunk of the season. I think it's pretty clear that speed is not high on the priority list at TE for the Giants.

So why spend a 1st on a guy right? The problem is, if you go into the season with a 4th round rookie TE as your only healthy TE, you're playing with fire.

And as eluded to above, if we sign a guy like Carlson, we overpay for an injured TE who again, isn't exactly a world beater athlete.

I want an athlete dammit. I'm tired of these slow white guys. (No offense to the board)

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:42 PM
If not Carlson, then sign like, Visanthe Shiancoe to a 2 year deal. He's older, probably won't cost much, and brings more as a receiver than the guys you had anyway since Beckum is pretty much a bust now.

AntoinCD
02-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Or, if you want an athlete the Pats will trade you Aaron Hernandez for JPP and Hakeem Nicks

Nalej
02-09-2012, 02:45 PM
...and Cruz.

Jughead10
02-09-2012, 02:45 PM
We also have the best TE coach in football. TE is obviously a need, but whoever we field, Pope will get every bit out of them. He can spot these guys a mile away.

AntoinCD
02-09-2012, 02:48 PM
...and Cruz.

Good idea. That way we don't need to keep Welker

Nalej
02-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Good idea. That way we don't need to keep Welker

Bingo. Plus, it makes the trade perfectly fair as well.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Osi for Gronk. We'll throw in Barden.

Nalej
02-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Someone test him for drugs. Now.
We were trying to have a serious conversation but you went and ****** it up. Thanks.

BeerBaron
02-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Pats fans, shut it.

You will franchise Welker, get him all pissy, he will hold out half the season and return out of football shape too late to help you.

Meanwhile, you'll sign Brandon Lloyd and draft TY Hilton in the 4th round as the only additions to your receiving corps.

Deal with it.

AntoinCD
02-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Osi for Gronk. We'll throw in Barden.

That trade was fairer for the Pats before Barden was put in

AntoinCD
02-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Pats fans, shut it.

You will franchise Welker, get him all pissy, he will hold out half the season and return out of football shape too late to help you.

Meanwhile, you'll sign Brandon Lloyd and draft TY Hilton in the 4th round as the only additions to your receiving corps.

Deal with it.

Hey I'm happy with that as long as we get a few 2nd round DBs and a future first round pick. #winningatthedraft

keylime_5
02-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Burfict is going to drop on draft day. I expect him to go somewhere in round 2.

Also Dwayne Allen > Coby Fleener. He'll get drafted before him at least.

Nalej
02-09-2012, 02:53 PM
Pats fans, shut it.

You will franchise Welker, get him all pissy, he will hold out half the season and return out of football shape too late to help you.

Meanwhile, you'll sign Brandon Lloyd and draft TY Hilton in the 4th round as the only additions to your receiving corps.

Deal with it.

Can I please live in my fantasy world until draft day? Is that ok with you!?
*crosses fingers , wishes on stars, blows out candles for MW17, VJax or DJax*