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Complex
02-08-2012, 12:43 PM
In an appearance with Burns and Gambo on Arizona Sports 620 in Phoenix, Warner made the case against Eli’s potential induction into the Hall of Fame.

“I fully disagree with that,” Warner said of talk that Eli will get in. “You know because I know we put a lot of weight on championships, and rightfully so. But championships are won as a team, and I’m fully convinced of that. You never see one guy — a great player, great quarterback — carry a team through the playoffs and into a Super Bowl and win a Super Bowl that way. I’ve never seen it. You know even in that game [Super Bowl XLVI], it’s 21-17. That’s the game. There wasn’t a quarterback just up and down the field carrying the team.

“Yeah, he made the plays down the stretch, no question about it,” added Warner, who spent the 2004 season with Eli in New York. “He’s had two great playoff runs, or his team has had two great playoff runs. But I also look at the rest of his career. I mean, he has an 82 . . . quarterback rating throughout his career. You know, he’s had five of his eight seasons where he has thrown 16 interceptions or more. His completion percentage on his career is 58 percent. To me, those aren’t Hall of Fame numbers and by that I mean every time you step on the field you’re a game changer, you’re a difference maker. And I don’t believe Eli Manning has been that guy until this year. I think this year is the first time in his career when he’s become that guy.”

Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats. Without that, Warner thinks Eli should be kept out due to the fact that he has been “extremely inconsistent throughout his career.”


Who is more is of a Hall of Famer?

Nalej
02-08-2012, 12:44 PM
Right now: Kurt
When it's all said and done: Eli

fenikz
02-08-2012, 12:44 PM
Warner as of right now and some people don't think he should get it, eli has plenty of work to do

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Eli Manning goes to sleep at night and dreams of being as effective as Kurt Warner. DREAMS I TELL YOU!

brat316
02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats.

Can't really argue with that, if he plays this well for 5 more seasons he'll get in.

Complex
02-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Can't really argue with that, if he plays this well for 5 more seasons he'll get in.

That will be like 8-9 good seasons from Elisha, which will double Kurt Warners good seasons.

brat316
02-08-2012, 12:53 PM
That will be like 8-9 good seasons from Elisha, which will double Kurt Warners good seasons.

or 6, since the first few were meh.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
That will be like 8-9 good seasons from Elisha, which will double Kurt Warners good seasons.

Pretty much.

Warner's got that "you can't tell the story of the NFL without him" type of career, though. And both the Rams and Cardinals were trash before and after he took them to Superbowls.

I think they'll both get in. :shrug:

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Better question: Elisha Manning or Elisha Cuthbert? I choose Cuthbert.

Complex
02-08-2012, 12:58 PM
or 6, since the first few were meh.

How will that be 6? He had a great season this year plus 5 more seasons of being good is 6. I know Eli has had more than one good season in his career.

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Eli has consistently been a great 2minute drive QB, he's been consistently a great late game QB and has been consistently improving. Whereas Kurt Warner has consistently been great with great talent...and sucked horrifically without it. So I'll take Eli's over Kurt any sunday, especially since we haven't even seen the best out of Eli.

Complex
02-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Better question: Elisha Manning or Elisha Cuthbert? I choose Cuthbert.

They are both pronounced the same?

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 01:03 PM
Eli has consistently been a great 2minute drive QB, he's been consistently a great late game QB and has been consistently improving. Whereas Kurt Warner has consistently been great with great talent...and sucked horrifically without it. So I'll take Eli's over Kurt any sunday, especially since we haven't even seen the best out of Eli.

Yeah because Eli's got no talent on that offense whatsoever. It sure as hell isn't as talented as the mighty Cardinals!

They are both pronounced the same?

I sure hope so.

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 01:03 PM
Pretty much.

Warner's got that "you can't tell the story of the NFL without him" type of career, though. And both the Rams and Cardinals were trash before and after he took them to Superbowls.

I think they'll both get in. :shrug:

And you're telling me there's a way to tell the history of the NFL without talking about the QB who stopped the 18-0 patriots to wrap up one of the greatest playoff runs ever? A guy who then followed it up with another unbelievable playoff run where he beat the 15-1 Packers at home. I agree both should be hall of famers but when it's all said and done Kurt's limited number of effective seasons, and how awful he was between those runs, will make him far less worthy of a Hall of Fame spot than Eli. Especially if Eli's able to stay healthy for 5+ more seasons and win another ring, which frankly aren't exactly impossible tasks as Eli has been one of the NFL's most durable QBs since he started playing in the NFL and this giants squad is only getting more talented with Reece and Ross adding to an already very deep roster.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 01:05 PM
And you're telling me there's a way to tell the history of the NFL without talking about the QB who stopped the 18-0 patriots to wrap up one of the greatest playoff runs ever? A guy who then followed it up with another unbelievable playoff run where he beat the 15-1 Packers at home. I agree both should be hall of famers but when it's all said and done Kurt's limited number of effective seasons, and how awful he was between those runs, will make him far less worthy of a Hall of Fame spot than Eli. Especially if Eli's able to stay healthy for 5+ more seasons and win another ring, which frankly aren't exactly impossible tasks as Eli has been one of the NFL's most durable QBs since he started playing in the NFL and this giants squad is only getting more talented with Reece and Ross adding to an already very deep roster.

Did I say that anywhere in my post, or did you really just want to tell this to all of us?

Giant fans, if you start becoming overbearing cuntrags like the Packer fans, I will not hesitate to ***** slap all of you.

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah because Eli's got no talent on that offense whatsoever. It sure as hell isn't as talented as the might Cardinals!



I sure hope so.

Eli's team this year was comparable with the team Kurt took to the superbowl in Arizona. Nicks and Cruz are great, but they're not better than Fitz and Boldin, both OLs sucked/were mediocre, both teams couldn't run the ball and both had hugely inconsistent defenses. But Eli's been an effective, and phenomenal late game QB with far less while Kurt has been terrible every time he didn't have a top 3 WR and another top 20 guy to throw to.

Rosebud
02-08-2012, 01:07 PM
Did I say that anywhere in my post, or did you really just want to tell this to all of us?

Giant fans, if you start becoming overbearing ***** like the Packer fans, I will not hesitate to ***** slap all of you.

My bad, thought you were implying that Eli didn't have a similar claim with the "though" part of the sentence "Warner's got that "you can't tell the story of the NFL without him" type of career, though."

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Kurt also still has sour grapes over being benched in favor of Eli.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 01:11 PM
My bad, thought you were implying that Eli didn't have a similar claim with the "though" part of the sentence "Warner's got that "you can't tell the story of the NFL without him" type of career, though."

His family is NFL royalty, gave the middle finger to San Diego pre-draft, plays for the league's biggest market, and is the BB/Tom Brady slayer....

I thought that it was basically implied.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 01:11 PM
Kurt also still has sour grapes over being benched in favor of Eli.

I'm pretty sure Kurt freaks out anytime any young QB is praised as a potential HOFer.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
I'm pretty sure Kurt freaks out anytime any young QB is praised as a potential HOFer.

How do you get sacked 39 times in 9 games?! LOL. I remember wondering what in the world happened to Warner. Did he need a dome that badly? It was a big time mess having him as our QB.

I am not really worried about this debate, because it's not like Eli is retiring now. In this QB passing era, where we go out of our way to protect Qbs, Eli can play anywhere from 7-10 more years. So god knows how many SBs we can win, and how much more good he can do for us. So not really worried about this.

Jughead10
02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
I'm pretty sure Kurt freaks out anytime any young QB is praised as a potential HOFer.

Kurt only has 6 years of throwing for over 3,000 yards. If or when he gets into the HOF, he should be damn thankful. He was an amazing player, but he just didn't do it long enough. And he'll have to wait. Because there are more deserving guys who keep getting left out recently, and its only going to get harder because more deserving guys are coming next year, etc.

jrdrylie
02-08-2012, 01:20 PM
I was the one about a year ago who started the argument about whether McNabb or Warner is more Hall worthy. That wasn't me complimenting McNabb. It was me commenting on how overrated Warner is.

Warner had two great seasons, three good seasons, and an average season. In the middle he had five seasons where he was terrible. So for nearly half of his career, he was awful. Yes, he has a Super Bowl ring and another Super Bowl appearance. But there is no way he is a Hall of Fame QB.

Contrast that with Manning. He has one more ring. None of his seasons are as great as Warner's best seasons. But Manning definitely has a more consistent track record. Truthfully, neither is Hall worthy. The difference is, Manning has 7-10 more seasons to help his case.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
Kurt only has 6 years of throwing for over 3,000 yards. If or when he gets into the HOF, he should be damn thankful. He was an amazing player, but he just didn't do it long enough. And he'll have to wait. Because there are more deserving guys who keep getting left out recently, and its only going to get harder because more deserving guys are coming next year, etc.

I was the one about a year ago who started the argument about whether McNabb or Warner is more Hall worthy. That wasn't me complimenting McNabb. It was me commenting on how overrated Warner is.

Warner had two great seasons, three good seasons, and an average season. In the middle he had five seasons where he was terrible. So for nearly half of his career, he was awful. Yes, he has a Super Bowl ring and another Super Bowl appearance. But there is no way he is a Hall of Fame QB.

Contrast that with Manning. He has one more ring. None of his seasons are as great as Warner's best seasons. But Manning definitely has a more consistent track record. Truthfully, neither is Hall worthy. The difference is, Manning has 7-10 more seasons to help his case.

Oh, I completely agree, but at the end of the day, the HOF is still a 100% media-based vote. And the media loves him.

Complex
02-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh, I completely agree, but at the end of the day, the HOF is still a 100% media-based vote. And the media loves him.

I hope they like Edgerrin James. If Curtis Martin is allowed in so should Edge. But he might not get in because he has grill.

http://mikeberndt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/showcase_11.png

fenikz
02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
And Boldin barely played that Super Bowl run he pretended to have a hurt hamstring for most of it, was all Fitz Breaston and Doucet. I think Stephen Spach had more catches

Lost so much respect from me, almost enough to counterbalance playing 2 weeks after shattering his face

descendency
02-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Eli already has as many good seasons as Kurt did in his day.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 02:32 PM
Eli already has as many good seasons as Kurt did in his day.

Warner was also much more potent then Eli during those seasons. Someone on here said it best, Eli is an opportunist. He is a master of making the most out of what's given to him. Warner, on the other hand, was just dominant at times in his career. Yes, Playing with Faulk and pace and bruce and holy helped, but watch an old Rams game and check out Warner's release. It's disgustingly fast and his accuracy was absolutely unparalleled at the time.

I'll tell you one thing, I'll take a Kurt Warner and his spots of brilliance over someone like curtis Martin, who was consistently good but never great. At least when talking about who deserves to be in the HoF.

FUNBUNCHER
02-08-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm shocked that Kurt Warner came off as if Eli has NO CHANCE to make it to Canton.
Or his implication that Eli was a game-manager or a bit player on those Giants SB teams.

The Giants won the first SB because of their defense and......Eli Manning. No one was 'carrying' Eli.
To hear another professional QB argue stats like a FF geek is embarrassing.

I'm waiting to hear Warner argue that Troy Aikman doesn't belong in the HOF either.

BTW I don't think the Giants have great WRs. They have talented guys, but I don't know if they're automatically stars on another team. Nicks and Cruz are legit, but I don't doubt that Eli has spent countless hours before and after practice to get in synch with these guys.

The Giants IMO are a football team whose entire whole is greater than the sum of their parts. And Eli is the ONE player if you tried to replace would dramatically change the fortunes of that football team.

I've defended Warner's HOF bona fides before, but he's coming off like a douche on this one.

DraftSavant
02-08-2012, 04:42 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm shocked that Kurt Warner came off as if Eli has NO CHANCE to make it to Canton.
Or his implication that Eli was a game-manager or a bit player on those Giants SB teams.

The Giants won the first SB because of their defense and......Eli Manning. No one was 'carrying' Eli.
To hear another professional QB argue stats like a FF geek is embarrassing.

I'm waiting to hear Warner argue that Troy Aikman doesn't belong in the HOF either.

BTW I don't think the Giants have great WRs. They have talented guys, but I don't know if they're automatically stars on another team. Nicks and Cruz are legit, but I don't doubt that Eli has spent countless hours before and after practice to get in synch with these guys.

The Giants IMO are a football team whose entire whole is greater than the sum of their parts. And Eli is the ONE player if you tried to replace would dramatically change the fortunes of that football team.

I've defended Warner's HOF bona fides before, but he's coming off like a douche on this one.

I would support this idea, if stats weren't embarrassingly important to the HoF Selection Committee. As much as some of us may hate it, stats are a HUGE part of what is considered a HoF career.

Caddy
02-08-2012, 04:53 PM
Eli has a girls name?

armageddon
02-08-2012, 04:55 PM
Any player who takes the Rams to the SB twice and Arizona once, is a 1st ballot HOF'er. Those are the 2 worst franchises in history.

nobodyinparticular
02-08-2012, 05:02 PM
Can't really argue with that, if he plays this well for 5 more seasons he'll get in.

I absolutely agree with this. I think that Warner is spot on when it comes to his analysis.

That will be like 8-9 good seasons from Elisha, which will double Kurt Warners good seasons.

And yet that has nothing to do with Warner's ability to analyze Eli's chances at the Hall of Fame. How many good seasons did the Hall of Fame voters put in? None? That's right, because they are writers.

Warner's commentary on the decision is very sound. Eli ended up with a very good season this year and has had a couple really good playoff performances in winning the Super Bowl twice. If he can play like this some more and perhaps get another ring, he will be a Hall of Famer. At this point, Eli is not a Hall of Famer and I would pick Warner's resume over Eli's.

nobodyinparticular
02-08-2012, 05:03 PM
Eli has a girls name?

e-LIE-shuh

Like in the Bible. Rhymes with Elijah.

Caddy
02-08-2012, 05:04 PM
e-LIE-shuh

Like in the Bible. Rhymes with Elijah.

It's still a girls name!

nobodyinparticular
02-08-2012, 05:10 PM
It's still a girls name!

And so is Peyton.

Your point?

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 05:13 PM
Warner has always held a little bit of a grudge towards Eli bc Eli replaced him in NY.

To be fair, no Eli is not a HOFer right here right now. If he retired today, he's probably not a HOFer.

But there's no reason to believe that when his career is over, that he won't be a HOFer. Even if he plateaus and continues to play at this level for another 5 or so years, that alone will be enough along with his 2 SB MVPs to make it to the HOF.

FUNBUNCHER
02-08-2012, 05:15 PM
I agree APS that stats are important for HOF consideration, but for QBs there is one stat that trumps passing numbers and that's SB rings.

The Giants never entered the playoffs under Eli as the smart pick to win it all. Every one of their recent SB runs have been shocking and beyond improbable.

These aren't the Giants teams of the 1980s and early 1990s under Parcells. These Gmen aren't the 'Beasts of the East' who intimidated half the teams they played before they ever stepped onto the field.

As a SKins fan my friends and I try to console ourselves by remembering we beat this team twice in 2011, and yet all of us know that's not the same QB or football team Washington beat during the regular season.

Just surprised that a guy like Warner came out so negatively against Eli and what he's accomplished thus far in his career.

Say the dude is on his way but his career isn't over yet. Don't act like the topic itself is ridiculous and isn't worthy of discussion.

bigbluedefense
02-08-2012, 05:24 PM
I'm shocked that Kurt Warner came off as if Eli has NO CHANCE to make it to Canton.
Or his implication that Eli was a game-manager or a bit player on those Giants SB teams.

The Giants won the first SB because of their defense and......Eli Manning. No one was 'carrying' Eli.
To hear another professional QB argue stats like a FF geek is embarrassing.

I'm waiting to hear Warner argue that Troy Aikman doesn't belong in the HOF either.

BTW I don't think the Giants have great WRs. They have talented guys, but I don't know if they're automatically stars on another team. Nicks and Cruz are legit, but I don't doubt that Eli has spent countless hours before and after practice to get in synch with these guys.

The Giants IMO are a football team whose entire whole is greater than the sum of their parts. And Eli is the ONE player if you tried to replace would dramatically change the fortunes of that football team.

I've defended Warner's HOF bona fides before, but he's coming off like a douche on this one.

Thank you. One of my biggest pet peeves is this ridiculous notion that Eli was carried by our team in 07 when we won the SB.

Eli carried our offense that postseason. Our run game was hovering around 3.5 ypc, and Eli made so many big game drives I lost count. He was our offense, and without Eli, there's no way we beat Tampa, let alone go on and win the SB that year.

I also feel that Eli makes our WR core look better than it is. It's funny how our WR suddenly is one of the best in the league when the perception before the season was we were crippled by our losses in FA.

Eli's weapons have changed throughout his career, but he hasn't, and the proof is in the pudding. We change out pieces to our offense all the time and never miss a beat, bc Eli can turn a Jake Ballard, a guy who was a UDFA who runs a 5.0 40 look like a starting TE, among others.

All I ask other fans to do is this: Pay attention to what Eli is doing btw the snaps. Just do that. See all the **** he does btw the snaps. Then name me how many qbs in this league do as much as he does btw the snaps.

Eli didn't magically turn this good in 1 season. He's been this good for a long time, the only people who saw it were Giants fans for the most part. The difference this year in comparison to years past is he finally has weapons who are on the same page as he is.

Thats the run n shoot. It's a system that requires chemistry and years to master. You can't just plug in an athlete and expect him to succeed at WR. It doesn't work that way.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2012, 05:27 PM
I'm of the mind that Hakeem Nicks is one of the better receivers in the NFL, and Cruz just decided he wanted to have his way with the NFL. Say what you will about Eli's ability to make his receivers better, but he wasn't the one breaking all those tackles on his way to 99 yard TD receptions. Food for thought.

Complex
02-08-2012, 05:39 PM
Eli did not make his WR's better. Nicks has been ballin out for awhile now. Victor Cruz was tearing it up in the preseason before tearing his ACL or w/e he hurt.It's not like Cruz was some scrub or a underachieving WR. He was a unknown player. Mario Manningham was a inconsistent, which he still is. I don't see anything that Eli has done to make them better.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Eli did not make his WR's better. Nicks has been ballin out for awhile now. Victor Cruz was tearing it up in the preseason before tearing his ACL or w/e he hurt.It's not like Cruz was some scrub or a underachieving WR. He was a unknown player. Mario Manningham was and is inconsistent which he still is. I don't see anything that Eli has done to make them better.

Of course he is does. He has been working with them via film work and extra sessions. He also is the one lone constant fixture while we had a 100% turnover on offense.

We lost:

Plax
Toomer
Shockey
Boss
Smith

We added new talent and probably less talented OL players, and still one guy remains the same. That was one of the main reasons why we drafted Eli in the first place. Accorsi went and scouted him, and knew he made the people around him better. He said it in a bunch of interviews and I think wrote it in his book as well.

Believe or not, not a big deal, but Accorsi said it himself when he went and scouted Eli. That was one aspect he liked about him, and thus one of the reasons he had a chubby for Eli and went ALL IN to get him.



http://www.charged.fm/blog/post/1463...ccorsi-in-2002


Eli Manning 2002 scouting report by EA.


Manning during his junior season at Ole Miss. Eli played Auburn that day in 2002. It reads:

Wears left knee brace… During pregame warmup, didn't look like he had a rocket arm… As game progressed, I saw excellent arm strength under pressure and the ability to get velocity on the ball on most throws. Good deep ball range. Good touch. Good vision and poise.

Sees the field… In shotgun on most plays and his only running option is a draw… his offensive line is poor. Red-shirt freshman left tackle. Eli doesn't trust his protection. Can't. No way he can take any form of a deep drop and look downfield. With no running game (10 yards rushing the first half) and no real top receivers, he's stuck with the three-step drops and waiting til the last second to see if a receiver can get free. No tight end either. No flaring back. So he's taking some big hits. Taking them well. Carried an overmatched team entirely on his shoulders. I imagine, except for Vanderbilt, his team is overmatched in every SEC game… He's big, never gets rattled. Rallied his team from a 14-3 halftime deficit basically all by himself. Led them on two successive third quarter drives to go ahead, 17-16. The first touchdown, a 40-yard streak down the left sideline, he dropped the ball over the receiver's right shoulder. Called the next touchdown pass himself, checking off to a 12-yard slant… Makes a lot of decisions on play calls at the line of scrimmage, but they ask too much of him. They don't just let him play. This is a guy you should just let play… When he's inaccurate, he's usually high, but rarely off target to either side… Plays smart and with complete confidence. Doesn't scold his teammates, but lets them know when they line up wrong or run the wrong pattern… Threw three interceptions. Two were his fault. Trying to force something both times. He could have run on one of them, a fourth down play. He has a lot to learn.

Summary: I think he's the complete package. He's not going to be a fast runner, but a little like Joe Montana, he has enough athletic ability to get out of trouble. Remember how Archie ran? In that department, Eli doesn't have the best genes, although I never timed mom Olivia in the 40. But he has a feel for the pocket. Feels the rush.

Throws the ball, takes the hit, gets right back up… Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic. As [former Baltimore Colts defensive back] Bobby Boyd told me once about Unitas, “Two things set him apart: his left testicle and his right testicle.”... Peyton had much better talent around him at Tennessee. But I honestly give this guy a chance to be better than his brother. Eli doesn't get much help from the coaching staff. If he comes out early, we should move up to take him. These guys are rare, you know.

Ernie Accorsi

Caddy
02-08-2012, 05:55 PM
And so is Peyton.

Your point?

I wasn't aware I was required to have one. Making an enjoyable observation.

WCH
02-08-2012, 07:41 PM
I think that when it's all said and done, Eli will be a borderline HoF candidate (I mean that as a compliment) and the only thing that could keep him out of the HoF is the fact that people will always think of him as "Peyton's brother." When your name conjures up thoughts of the GOAT, that hinders your HoF prospects.

Similarly, Archie isn't remembered as fondly now as he was before Peyton set fire to the NFL. Archie is now little more than "Peyton's father" to anybody outside of the Saints fanbase.

Jvig43
02-08-2012, 10:07 PM
I said it way back in the beginning of the year, but Eli has the best three WR core in the NFL hands down for me. Not to take away from Eli but we shouldn't be arguing whether or not Eli made them. They are disgustingly good receivers.

fenikz
02-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Eli already has as many good seasons as Kurt did in his day.

But none even half as good as Kurt's best

FUNBUNCHER
02-08-2012, 11:50 PM
I said it way back in the beginning of the year, but Eli has the best three WR core in the NFL hands down for me. Not to take away from Eli but we shouldn't be arguing whether or not Eli made them. They are disgustingly good receivers.

Victor Cruz would have put up 1500 yards receiving anywhere else in the league??

Cruz/Nicks/Manningham are obviously talented, but I can't assume their talent equates to production in that Giants offense without Eli.

GB, NO, Dallas, KC and Cincy all of have talented WR corps. NY deserves to be in the discussion, but I don't know how you could say at the beginning of the season the Giants unit was the best.

Bengalsrocket
02-09-2012, 12:22 AM
GB, NO, Dallas, KC and Cincy all of have talented WR corps. NY deserves to be in the discussion, but I don't know how you could say at the beginning of the season the Giants unit was the best.

I don't want to rag on my own team here, but I don't think Cincy has been the "top" WR conversation for a long time. At the Beginning of this season we had a Rookie WR in the #1 spot, an unproven 2nd rounder who had not seen the field really since he was drafted (he got in a couple of games in '10 at the end, when we sat Chad and T.O., but it wasn't enough to prove himself). Jordan Shipley was coming off an injury right before he got re-injured too. Past that we don't don't have anyone worth talking about. Even Gresham is terribly inconsistent despite being a great athlete.

Bucs_Rule
02-09-2012, 01:25 AM
Before this year Eli was viewed as an above average to very good QB. This is his first year of being great. One year of being great and 2 rings isn't enough.

If he continues to play at this level then he will get in, which is most likely. If not then no.

Ness
02-09-2012, 04:48 AM
Warner was also much more potent then Eli during those seasons. Someone on here said it best, Eli is an opportunist. He is a master of making the most out of what's given to him. Warner, on the other hand, was just dominant at times in his career. Yes, Playing with Faulk and pace and bruce and holy helped, but watch an old Rams game and check out Warner's release. It's disgustingly fast and his accuracy was absolutely unparalleled at the time.

I don't think a lot of people remember how dominant Warner was. And you are the first person I've heard on here talking about Warner's release. And that was it. He used to throw some rocket balls that were deadly accurate. That Rams season in 1999 is still the best season by a quarterback ever in my opinion. It was just rainbow after rainbow to Bruce, Holt, or Hakim. Warner was just absurdly good. After he hurt his hand he never got his touch back. Even when he went to the Cardinals. That velocity from his throws was just never the same.

boknows34
02-09-2012, 05:37 AM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/08/lombardi-vs-warner-the-debate-over-elis-hall-worthiness/?module=HP11_content_stream

“I know as well as anybody that Super Bowls are often synonymous with quarterback careers,” Warner said. “But when I think of a Hall of Famer, I think of someone who is consistently great — not just at critical moments like Eli has been. … When I think of a Hall of Famer, I think of a guy that every time out is a great player, every season (he) displays greatness.”

Isn't Warner shooting himself in the foot by saying this when it comes to his own HOF credentials? ''Every season displaying greatness'' .... except for that 5-year period in the middle of your career with an 8-23 record as a starter.

bigbluedefense
02-09-2012, 07:20 AM
I'm of the mind that Hakeem Nicks is one of the better receivers in the NFL, and Cruz just decided he wanted to have his way with the NFL. Say what you will about Eli's ability to make his receivers better, but he wasn't the one breaking all those tackles on his way to 99 yard TD receptions. Food for thought.

Eli did not make his WR's better. Nicks has been ballin out for awhile now. Victor Cruz was tearing it up in the preseason before tearing his ACL or w/e he hurt.It's not like Cruz was some scrub or a underachieving WR. He was a unknown player. Mario Manningham was a inconsistent, which he still is. I don't see anything that Eli has done to make them better.

They came into the league as all pro caliber athletes, but the run n shoot offense takes a while to get used to. Nicks needed a good 2 years, Cruz learned quickly but is much better now than he was at the beginning of the season, Mario still sucks at the system bc he's an idiot.

It's why he threw 26 INTs last year. Way too many communication errors on offense last year.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 09:52 AM
Thank you. One of my biggest pet peeves is this ridiculous notion that Eli was carried by our team in 07 when we won the SB.

Eli carried our offense that postseason. Our run game was hovering around 3.5 ypc, and Eli made so many big game drives I lost count. He was our offense, and without Eli, there's no way we beat Tampa, let alone go on and win the SB that year.

I also feel that Eli makes our WR core look better than it is. It's funny how our WR suddenly is one of the best in the league when the perception before the season was we were crippled by our losses in FA.

Eli's weapons have changed throughout his career, but he hasn't, and the proof is in the pudding. We change out pieces to our offense all the time and never miss a beat, bc Eli can turn a Jake Ballard, a guy who was a UDFA who runs a 5.0 40 look like a starting TE, among others.

All I ask other fans to do is this: Pay attention to what Eli is doing btw the snaps. Just do that. See all the **** he does btw the snaps. Then name me how many qbs in this league do as much as he does btw the snaps.

Eli didn't magically turn this good in 1 season. He's been this good for a long time, the only people who saw it were Giants fans for the most part. The difference this year in comparison to years past is he finally has weapons who are on the same page as he is.

Thats the run n shoot. It's a system that requires chemistry and years to master. You can't just plug in an athlete and expect him to succeed at WR. It doesn't work that way.

The sad part is if our OL didn't suck to start the season, Eli would never have gotten to throw the ball enough to put up the numbers he did this year despite playing just as well. But that's why he's been under-rated for so much of his career, a lack of opportunity to accumulate the #s that are so important to get mass appreciation for his talents and play. I mean, do you think Eli gets half this much respect if our running game weren't terrible and Killdrive could run the ball 35+ times a game?

Warner was also much more potent then Eli during those seasons. Someone on here said it best, Eli is an opportunist. He is a master of making the most out of what's given to him. Warner, on the other hand, was just dominant at times in his career. Yes, Playing with Faulk and pace and bruce and holy helped, but watch an old Rams game and check out Warner's release. It's disgustingly fast and his accuracy was absolutely unparalleled at the time.

I'll tell you one thing, I'll take a Kurt Warner and his spots of brilliance over someone like curtis Martin, who was consistently good but never great. At least when talking about who deserves to be in the HoF.

As long as teams just feel like giving him game winning drive after game winning drive there's not much more you can ask out of a QB. The ability to make teams play terrible against you is just so important. Especially if you can make them do it in the biggest moments, against the best coaches, consistently, for years and years...

BaLLiN
02-09-2012, 11:17 AM
2tUsUoMIHZc

Ness
02-09-2012, 01:18 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/08/lombardi-vs-warner-the-debate-over-elis-hall-worthiness/?module=HP11_content_stream

“I know as well as anybody that Super Bowls are often synonymous with quarterback careers,” Warner said. “But when I think of a Hall of Famer, I think of someone who is consistently great — not just at critical moments like Eli has been. … When I think of a Hall of Famer, I think of a guy that every time out is a great player, every season (he) displays greatness.”

Isn't Warner shooting himself in the foot by saying this when it comes to his own HOF credentials? ''Every season displaying greatness'' .... except for that 5-year period in the middle of your career with an 8-23 record as a starter.
Well Warner is just being honest. He could probably care less about endorsing himself as a HOF candidate. And he'd probably tell you himself that he was not very good for about 5 years.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:22 PM
Well Warner is just being honest. He could probably care less about endorsing himself as a HOF candidate. And he'd probably tell you himself that he was not very good for about 5 years.

Yeah, but he's advocating for a criteria that won't be applied to him when he's getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. And I can supersize with people that are rubbed the wrong way by that.

yodabear
02-09-2012, 01:39 PM
Eli can beat Brady, Kurt couldn't. THANKS FOR REMINDING ME ABOUT SUPER BOWL 36 U DICK!

Ness
02-09-2012, 01:52 PM
Yeah, but he's advocating for a criteria that won't be applied to him when he's getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. And I can supersize with people that are rubbed the wrong way by that.

He's just sharing his opinion on how he believes HOF candidates should be measured at a position he played, even if he is screwing himself over. I don't think it's anything personal.

Rosebud
02-09-2012, 01:55 PM
He's just sharing his opinion on how he believes HOF candidates should be measured at a position he played, even if he is screwing himself over. I don't think it's anything personal.

Eh, Kurt's always fallen on the more critical side with Eli, a guy who replaced him when Kurt could clearly still put up big numbers with a top 3 WR and solid supporting corps. Add how he's not really screwing himself because that criteria will not be held against him, and it's easy to see how people take his words with a significant grain of salt.