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BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 10:27 AM
Welcome to the 2012 DC Fantasy Forum Offseason!

This goes far beyond your typical forum mock draft. We will be including free agency, trading, franchise tags, salary cap management and so much more this time around.

One important thing to note is this email address: forummockbb@gmail.com

That is where you will send all official transactions and offers. I’ve set this up because we have a limit of 100 PMs and I will almost certainly hit that max once we get rolling. So send any cuts, restructures, trades, free agent offers, franchise tag designations, etc. there please.

Please always include these things in the subject line for ease of reference:
TEAM NAME - DC USERNAME - DETAILS OF THE EMAIL

(For “details,” it should be one of these things: Cuts, Trade, Franchise/RFA, Free Agent List, etc.)

And always include these things in the body as well:

DC Username
Your Team
Transaction/Offer

(Redundancy is a good thing here.)

I will not send you spam or anything like that, so don’t worry about sending from your personal email. I just need you to include your username and your team because I may not be able to tell who you are otherwise.

So here are the steps we will be going through and the basic procedures for each.

0.) Signing Up

To sign up, simply send an email to me at forummockbb@gmail.com with the following information:

1.) Username:
2.) Cell Phone #: (I will ONLY use this if it's ok with you. I'll only use it let you know when you're up to select in the draft. If you're not able to make the pick yourself, you can text it to me.)
3.) 5 teams you would most like to GM.

Please also include if you would be willing to work with a Co-GM and who that is (if you have one in mind.) Co-GMs are expected to work together and to keep eachother apprised of possible moves or deals. Both will have the power to make trades or selections.

Since I'm familiar with most of the posters, I'm not going to ask for more than that. I know you and have likely participated with you in the past.

1.) Salary Cap Management

(I had originally planned to go more in depth with this, but because the real life teams keep making cuts and restructures, it’s too much of a pain to keep up with, so I have modified my original plans.)

Now, I’m lousy with math and believe me, you do not want me going anywhere near exact numbers and bonuses and cap penalties and all of that if you value your (and my) sanity. So, rather than deal with every single penny of dealing with player transactions, I’ll be using ball park estimates.

This page lists the teams relatively current salary situations: Salary Cap Projections. (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/nfl-salary-cap-projections-for-2012-season.html)

Additionally, teams are allowed to carry over their remaining 2011 cap space. I will combine these with the totals listed in the link above:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/

For the sake of this forum offseason, I will set it so that all teams will be below the salary cap. Teams currently over the cap (those listed in the 3rd section of the first article) will be placed JUST UNDER the cap (since they’ll have to be there eventually anyway.) Any real life cuts that those teams make prior to us beginning will be added to the free agent list here. Once we’ve started, the team is yours and real life transactions will no longer automatically occur here.

You can further improve your team’s salary cap situation by cutting players. This will be the first thing we do. To cut a player, you will simply send an email to the address listed above with the player’s name and a link to a reliable source (read: NOT a forum post) that says what his 2012 cap hit would have been. If you are unable to find such a source, use Rotoworld. (Find the player and click on “view contract details.) We will just use his 2012 salary for our purposes here.

I reserve the right to reject an unrealistic cut. Once a player has been cut, he will be added to the free agent list and assigned a ranking there.

I will keep track of each move a team makes and how it affects their salary cap situation. As I said before, our starting point will be the salary cap situations in the link above. I will not be keeping track of every single dollar spent or saved, it will be more like just using rough figures.

The further under the cap you go, the better your chances become of landing higher quality and/or a larger quantity of available free agents. This process will be explained later.

2.) Franchise Tags and Restricted Free Agents

While cuts are going on, teams may also designate franchise players and set tenders on RFAs. You will simply submit these to me via the email address above. The basic real life rules of both of these processes apply.

Since applying the franchise tag to a player means you will be making him a top 5 paid player at his position, this will count against your salary cap situation and hinder your ability to go after higher level free agents. Once franchised, you will be given the option to match any offers made to your franchise player. If you choose not to match, the signing team will owe you two first round picks.

For RFAs, it will be assumed that all of them are already tendered at the lowest level possible (the right to match offers only, no compensation.) If you wish to apply a higher tender (1st round, 2nd round, or round the player was drafted in,) you will simply submit this in an email to me. If another team makes an offer to the player, you will have the ability to match it. If you choose not to, that team will owe you whatever the compensation was set at. (There are some teams with “exclusive rights” free agents who I didn’t include in the list because, for all intents and purposes, they are not free agents. You will automatically just keep them all.)

Please note, that like franchising a player, setting a higher RFA level may hinder your ability to sign free agents. So apply tenders carefully.

3.) Free Agent Signing Period

Once teams have been given every opportunity to cut players as well as franchise or tender them, we will begin the free agent signing period.

You may notice on the free agent list that each player has been put in a tier. A breakdown of these tiers follows:

A.) Elite - The top tier. The very best free agents who will require a massive salary and will instantly, drastically improve the team they go to. (Examples: Mario Williams, Carl Nicks, Vincent Jackson, etc.)

B.) Quality - Guys who are very good but aren’t quite elite, or, in some cases, elite players that won’t command a giant salary due to age or other concerns like a recent injury. (Examples of the former: Mario Manningham, Tracy Porter, Curtis Lofton....Examples of the latter: London Fletcher, Jeff Saturday, John Abraham.)

C.) Mid Level - Guys who could be serviceable starters, good role players, good rotational players, great backups, are really old but still pretty good players, or were once good players but suffered a serious injury.. (Examples: Deion Branch, Jeff Backus, John Carlson, etc.)

D.) Low Level - Everyone else. Nobodies, has beens, never weres, fullbacks, punters, and kickers etc.

(These are essentially set, so don't bother complaining. They've been run past several sets of trusted eyes to end up where they are. Unless you spot a grievous error, I'm not changing them.)

Basically, when you submit your offers, instead of an actual dollar figure, you will simply write the tier level you would be willing to pay that free agent.

Now, just because a player is in a certain tier, it doesn’t mean you can’t make them a better or worse offer. For example, if there is a Quality player you really want, offer him an Elite level contract. If you are the only team to do so, he will almost certainly sign with you. Additionally, if a Elite level player doesn’t get an Elite level offer during the first round of signings, he may be willing to accept a Quality level offer the 2nd time through. So feel free to offer a guy less than his level if he’s not getting much interest elsewhere.

I will consider your cap situation (in additional to any other factors I can think of or that you present as arguments in your list) as to who signs where. If you’re a team way under the cap, money isn’t likely to be a factor in your initial signings. If, after the first round of free agency, you signed several Elite or Quality players, it will become more difficult for you to sign additional high level free agents. Teams who don’t have much cap space and are attempting to sign high level free agents will also struggle. This is how your cap situation will come into play.

Additionally, you may sign an unlimited number of “veteran minimum” deals that I will not count against your cap situation. You must say in your offer that is is for the veteran minimum. If a player has any better offers, he will take those over yours. However, there may be a few situations where a player would take the veteran minimum offer of a better team over a better offer from a lesser team. (For example, a veteran nearing the end of his career may take a veteran minimum offer from a Superbowl contender to try and win a ring over a Low level offer from a lesser team.)

Speaking of “rounds,” we will do THREE rounds of free agency. The first will thin out the ranks a bit and a lot of the big names will probably sign. Players will not accept offers from below the tier they are listed at during this period. Then, you will get a little time to regroup for a 2nd round to clean up a bit. Most players will simply take the best offer available during this period. Once the cleanup 2nd round is finished, we will do the draft. Following the draft, all remaining free agents (as well as undrafted free agents) will be available to be signed for any offer. If there are a lot of free agents still available after the 2nd round, I may consider adding a 3rd pre-draft signing period...we’ll see how it goes.

Now, how exactly will the signing of free agents work? Well, the better your cap situation, the more high tier offers you’ll be able to make. Teams way under the cap can basically make offers to anyone while teams with less cap space will not. If you used your franchise tag or made high level RFA tenders, it will be harder for your to sign Elite or Quality level free agents. Additionally, if you sign a high level free agent and/or several lower level ones in the first round of free agency, it will be harder for you to get high level players in the 2nd round of free agency.

Like I’ve said, I will be keeping track of your teams salary situation using the numbers in the articles above as a starting point (and adjusting them for cuts, franchise tags, RFA tenders, etc.) Once you’ve submitted your offers, I will look through them all and determine who the free agent will sign with based on your offer, your salary cap situation and whatever arguments you make for why that player would want to sign with your team in the email.

Now, I mentioned arguments. When you submit your offers via email, I highly encourage you to include arguments in addition to simply what level offer you want to make the player. I don’t want you to write a book for each one, because I probably won’t read it all, so please just make a few bullet points. Use common sense but also, be creative. Here are some sample arguments you could make:

- He’ll be a starter on my team
- He will get to play with/next to Player X who is a Pro Bowler
- He’ll fit our system really well (add some details about how he’ll fit)
- Our head coach is his former coordinator who he liked
- A link to an article saying that the player would like to play there
- ETC. (use your imagination, creativity wins bonus points with me.)

Also, when submitting offers, be as specific as possible. I will reply asking you to clarify if I cannot understand it. If you do not respond to clarify, I will just go by what I assume you meant. All signings are final. Ways to be specific and avoid confusion include:

- I would like one of these DEs (list them, ranked 1-X)
- I would like one of these Elite players and one of these Quality players, but not at the same position (list them ranked in the order you want them)
- I want as many of these players as I can get (list them in a general order of preference)
- Etc.

And feel free to include as many players on your list as you want. Have backup plans for your contingency plan’s backup plans. Just make sure you’re specific in how you list them and how you word everything. Like I said, I’ll try to get clarification from you if I have a question, but I’ll go by whatever I think you meant if I don’t hear back from you.

Additionally, if you want to submit an updated list after each round of free agency, feel free to do so. Just put “UPDATED!” at the end of the subject line so I know to use the new one. (Otherwise, I’ll just continue to reference the most recent one I’ve received from you.)

And remember to include signings that aren’t big. For example, if you only have one QB under contract, you will need a backup at some point. Remember to include even minor signings like that.

I will announce the time by which all offers must be submitted for each round of free agency. I will then take some time to go through all of the offers and determine who signs where.

I will not allow inactive teams to simply languish. Since that could severely throw off realism and make it less fun for everyone else, I will make some offers on their behalf. (For example, if the Saints GM were to be inactive, I will franchise tag Drew Brees and include them when considering offers for their free agents.) However, active teams will always have the advantage when it comes to signing players. SO BE ACTIVE.

4.) Trading

You will be free to make trades. You can swap players, include picks, include future picks...whatever. However, do note, that any trades you make will be taken into consideration when it comes to your ability to signing free agents.

Typically, when players are traded, they sign new contracts with their new teams. Additionally, any bonus money they were owed becomes immediately due. So trade wisely.

To submit a trade, both parties must simply email me the details of the trade. I will then approve or reject it. If rejected, I will reply to let you know my reasoning.

Please note: there will be no sign-and-trades allowed. You may trade franchise players or tendered RFAs, but if you sign a free agent, he is yours.

5.) The Draft

It will work just like a regular forum mock. Free agent signing will be suspended from the end of the 2nd (or 3rd if another is added) signing period until after the draft. Specific draft rules will be posted at draft time. (General forum mock rules apply. Two hour time limit for first round picks, one hour for all other rounds. Etc etc etc.)


6.) Templates of what to include in the emails

Here is a template for what to send me if you wish to cut a player:

To: forummockbb@gmail.com
From: You

Username: BeerBaron
Team: Steagles

Cut: WR Bill Smith
2012 Salary: $5 Million
(Insert justification here if it is a questionable cut)
(Insert link to a page including the player’s 2012 salary or cap hit)

Template to use a Franchise Tag or set an RFA tender:

To: forummockbb@gmail.com
From: You

Username: BeerBaron
Team: Steagles

Franchise Tag: WR Bob Smith
(Justification if it’s a questionable move)

Set RFA Tender: 1st round on DE John Smith
(Justification if it’s a questionable move)

Here is a template for what to submit when signing a free agent:

To: forummockbb@gmail.com
From: You

Username: BeerBaron
Team: Steagles

I would like to sign ONE of these defensive ends:

1.) DE Mario Williams (Elite)
- Offer: Elite Level
Reasons why he would want to come to my team:
- Play next to Pro Bowler X on the D line
- Fits our system well
- Our defensive coordinator is his former d-line coach
- No one on our team currently has his number.
- Here’s an article saying that he likes BBQ ribs and we have really good BBQ rib places (link)

2.) DE Calais Campbell (Elite)
- Offer: Elite Level
Reasons why he would want to come to my team:
- blah blah blah

3.) DE Robert Mathis (Elite)
- Offer: Elite Level
Reasons...
- blah blah blah

4.) DE Israel Idonije (Quality)
- Offer: Quality Level
Reasons...

5.) DE Adam Carriker (Mid)
- Offer: Mid Level
Reasons...

I would like to sign ONE of these wide receivers:

1.) blah blah
2.) blah blah
3.) blah blah

I would like to sign as many of these players as a I can, but NOT more than one of each position:
(In order of overall preference)

1.) RB X - Blah
2.) TE Z - Blah
3.) RB Y - Blah
4.) DT W - Blah
5.) OG Q - Blah

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 10:27 AM
Here is a link to the free agent list. Please let me know if you for some reason cannot see it.

Free Agent List (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkBmBGPV6_L9dHZWd3FwaUI2eG16WXJQN1VTOXhSa lE)

* - Restricted Free Agent
** - Resigned in Real Life (By the actual team.)

I will keep that updated with all transactions.

--------------------
Moves that are occurring automatically:

- Peyton Manning is a free agent
- Mario Williams is a free agent
- Matt Flynn is a free agent
- Vincent Jackson is a free agent

I am making these happen to keep things a little more interesting.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 10:34 AM
GM list:

1. Indianapolis (2-14) - killxswitch
2. St. Louis (2-14) - holt_bruce81
3. Minnesota (3-13) - marshallb
4. Cleveland (4-12) - DeepThreat
5. Tampa Bay (4-12) - Caddy
6. Washington (5-11) - dirty thirty
7. Jacksonville (5-11) - Unbiased
8. Miami (6-10) - draftguru151
9. Carolina (6-10) - ncst8fan
10. Buffalo (6-10) - redbills
11. Kansas City (7-9) - vidae
12. Seattle (7-9) - princefielder28
13. Arizona (8-8) - fenikz
14. Dallas (8-8) - Jrdrylie
15. Philadelphia (8-8) - Go_Eagles77
16. New York Jets (8-8) - Hurricanes25/Derza222
17. Oakland (8-8) - BeerBaron
18. San Diego (8-8) - Shane P. Hallam
19. Chicago (8-8) - ChiFan24
20. Tennessee (9-7) - diabsoule
21. Cincinnati* (9-7) - Docta
22. Atlanta* (10-6) - ATLdirtybirds
23. Detroit* (10-6) - Broth223
24. Pittsburgh* (12-4) - Hines
25. Denver* (8-8) - TheBoyWonder22
26. Houston* (10-6) - Grizzlegom
27. New Orleans* (13-3) - zachsaints52
28. Green Bay* (15-1) - SuperPacker
29. Baltimore* (12-4) - APS/TACKLE
30. San Francisco* (13-3) - CJ Schneider
31. New England* (13-3) - Matthew Jones
32. New York Giants* (9-7) - scottyboy/OSUGiants17

jrdrylie
02-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Signup email sent!

zachsaints52
02-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Ready to put my GM cap on.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 11:17 AM
5 sign ups in 20 minutes...not a bad start.

DiG
02-13-2012, 11:24 AM
could be the best forum mock yet

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 11:28 AM
could be the best forum mock yet

We'll see. Work isn't too busy for me right now and we don't have any new releases coming out that will cause me problems, so I should be able to stay on top of everything.

I do know that this coming Saturday night and next weekend I'll be busy. I'll try not to have any important times overlap with those though and I can always check on my phone. (I just don't want to have to do a lot of work from there though, lol...it's a pain in the ass.)

So I will do everything in my power to make sure this goes well.

CJSchneider
02-13-2012, 11:29 AM
Could we set it up so we are all using the same source site for salary figures?
That being said, what are some suggestions (I don't want to seem pushy)

Nalej
02-13-2012, 11:33 AM
I'm too busy juggling school and family time to truly invest in this but I can serve as a Patriots consultant.
Bounce ideas off of, get a different POV on a player, etc.

Either way, I'll keep my eyes on this. These usually turn out really well.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Could we set it up so we are all using the same source site for salary figures?
That being said, what are some suggestions (I don't want to seem pushy)

I gave links to the sources of the 2012 projected cap numbers and the 2011 carry overs, so use those for cap management purposes.

As for individual salaries, I recommend Rotoworld. That is what I will check ones I receive against if they aren't from there. It's super convenient because it's listed right on the player's page.

If someone finds another reliable source and it seems legit, I'm willing to use it.

TheBoyWonder22
02-13-2012, 11:46 AM
I forgot to put this in my email, I would be fine co-gming.

marshallb
02-13-2012, 11:49 AM
I forgot to put this in my email, I would be fine co-gming.

Dammit. Me too, I'd be fine with co-GMing with pretty much anyone.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 11:50 AM
I forgot to put this in my email, I would be fine co-gming.

Good, that may be important. I'm getting them at a good rate now so I may need to pair some people up.

scottyboy
02-13-2012, 12:17 PM
tl;dr
lolz.

my email has been sent. I'm in a comical mood today, as you will soon find out BB

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 12:19 PM
tl;dr
lolz.

my email has been sent. I'm in a comical mood today, as you will soon find out BB

Yes, very clever. I already know how badly you want Dan Connor as the Giants new MLB and have that be the only free agent signing you make. Consider it done.

Nalej
02-13-2012, 12:20 PM
Pwned.

/commissioner

scottyboy
02-13-2012, 12:21 PM
Yes, very clever. I already know how badly you want Dan Connor as the Giants new MLB and have that be the only free agent signing you make. Consider it done.

......
****.

OSUGiants17
02-13-2012, 01:32 PM
tl;dr
lolz.

my email has been sent. I'm in a comical mood today, as you will soon find out BB

scotty...co-gm's???

redbills
02-13-2012, 01:37 PM
Looks like its gonna be a fun one!

ATLDirtyBirds
02-13-2012, 02:07 PM
I'll send my sign up when I'm home from work.

RaiderNation
02-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Unfortunately not going to be able to participate in this one. Good luck to who ever gets the Raiders, should be interesting to see how this runs.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 02:20 PM
Unfortunately not going to be able to participate in this one. Good luck to who ever gets the Raiders, should be interesting to see how this runs.

Lame. The Raiders are going to be hard to fill because of their lack of draft picks and cap hell.

DeepThreat
02-13-2012, 02:50 PM
What's the rule on re-negotiating contracts? Not allowed?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 02:57 PM
Hey, someone test something for me. Find Garrison Sanborn on the free agent list and let me know if you can read the "comment" for him under "new team."

I'm not sure if those are just for me or if everyone can see them. If everyone can see them, then I'm going to use that as a way to denote what tender RFAs are at and possibly some other things as well.

What's the rule on re-negotiating contracts? Not allowed?

Thought about it...I'm going to say no. If you want to keep a guy who is a free agent, franchise him or try to resign him once he hits the market.

DeepThreat
02-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Hey, someone test something for me. Find Garrison Sanborn on the free agent list and let me know if you can read the "comment" for him under "new team."

I'm not sure if those are just for me or if everyone can see them. If everyone can see them, then I'm going to use that as a way to denote what tender RFAs are at and possibly some other things as well.



Thought about it...I'm going to say no. If you want to keep a guy who is a free agent, franchise him or try to resign him once he hits the market.

The comment is there.

So, if there's a player whose contract I don't like, could I cut him then re-sign him under a different tier?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 03:17 PM
The comment is there.

So, if there's a player whose contract I don't like, could I cut him then re-sign him under a different tier?

Yeah, that would be fine. You risk others making offers to him though. I thought about having a restructure/resigning process, but I just couldn't come up with a great formula for it.

Plus I think it'll be more fun this way for everyone I think. More outright cuts add to the free agent pool.

Caddy
02-13-2012, 03:22 PM
Appy sent sir!

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 03:23 PM
Appy sent sir!

I'm not going to have to give you a punter in every round am I? Boards will be sent, yes?

Caddy
02-13-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm not going to have to give you a punter in every round am I? Boards will be sent, yes?

I've been in every forum mock for years and rarely miss a pick...

vidae
02-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Application sent. I'm going to ask boe, but if anyone would like to co-GM the Chiefs with me I'm more than open to it.

Hines
02-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Are the numbers for the cap space going to be tweeked? I know the Steelers aren't that above the cap anymore.

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 04:41 PM
For the sake of this forum offseason, I will set it so that all teams will be below the salary cap. Teams currently over the cap (those listed in the 3rd section of the first article) will be placed JUST UNDER the cap (since they’ll have to be there eventually anyway.) Any real life cuts that those teams make prior to us beginning will be added to the free agent list here. Once we’ve started, the team is yours and real life transactions will no longer automatically occur here.

For Hines^^

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 04:44 PM
15 openings left and I have 4 applicants who are willing to take anyone really. So once they're filled in, I've got 11 teams left open. Encourage others to join please.

Hines
02-13-2012, 04:47 PM
For Hines^^

Maybe I shouldn't have skimmed through the reading. :)

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 04:49 PM
Something important to note:

Moves that are occurring automatically:

- Peyton Manning is a free agent
- Mario Williams is a free agent
- Matt Flynn is a free agent

I am making these happen to keep things a little more interesting.

I've added that to the post with the free agent list link. Just a heads up.

zachsaints52
02-13-2012, 04:52 PM
Oh snap! Gonna be a wild ride on this one.

DeepThreat
02-13-2012, 04:56 PM
Something important to note:



I've added that to the post with the free agent list link. Just a heads up.

When are you planning on starting free agency/when should we send you our lists?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 05:08 PM
When are you planning on starting free agency/when should we send you our lists?

Just hold your lists until the teams are announced. Cuts, franchise tagging and RFA tendering will happen first. Trading will also be allowed to start in that time.

Once I've heard from every team (or have attempted to contact their GM if they don't send anything,) I'll open up free agency.

I'll post rumors and teasers in the Media Thread and once all teams have had a chance to submit, I'll make the signing announcement for the first round.

zachsaints52
02-13-2012, 05:20 PM
Just hold your lists until the teams are announced. Cuts, franchise tagging and RFA tendering will happen first. Trading will also be allowed to start in that time.

Once I've heard from every team (or have attempted to contact their GM if they don't send anything,) I'll open up free agency.

I'll post rumors and teasers in the Media Thread and once all teams have had a chance to submit, I'll make the signing announcement for the first round.

Do you think Peyton would be the biggest QB FA over Brees? Or you saying this because at the very least Brees would get franchised?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 05:23 PM
Do you think Peyton would be the biggest QB FA over Brees? Or you saying this because at the very least Brees would get franchised?

Yeah, Drew Brees isn't going to be a free agent. I'll be seeing to that if the GM does not.

diabsoule
02-13-2012, 06:52 PM
I'll be signing up later today.

redbills
02-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Should Stevie Johnson really be elite? With his flags and big time drops?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 08:46 PM
Should Stevie Johnson really be elite? With his flags and big time drops?

Eh, he's close enough to the fence where I'll just let the market decide what he's worth.

CJSchneider
02-13-2012, 09:06 PM
When should we find out what team we are the GM/co-GM of?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 09:21 PM
Once all the teams are filled.

CJSchneider
02-13-2012, 09:23 PM
How close are we?

BeerBaron
02-13-2012, 09:28 PM
How close are we?

Technically 14. Two are basically filled but I'd like those GMs to actually still submit applications. And then I have 4 or 5 guys willing to be filled in wherever.

So we have about 8 or 9 teams to fill yet. I'll start mass PMing tomorrow if I have to.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 02:50 AM
So is every team carrying over the remaining 2011 cap BB? I might have misread but are we using it or just forgetting it?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 05:49 AM
So is every team carrying over the remaining 2011 cap BB? I might have misread but are we using it or just forgetting it?

We're going to use it.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:31 AM
I'll be signing up later today.

Still never got yours. If you're willing to just take anyone, it would help us tremendously.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 07:06 AM
I've added another player to the "will definitely be a free agent" list:

- Vincent Jackson is a free agent

Another guy who doesn't look like he'll be tagged in real life and who, by virtue of being of a free agent, will make things more fun/interesting here.

Matthew Jones
02-14-2012, 07:49 AM
My application has been sent!

killxswitch
02-14-2012, 08:12 AM
App sent. asdf.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 08:16 AM
My application has been sent!

App sent. asdf.

Got both of yours. BTW, killswitch, MaxV already said he was too busy to solo GM, but he may wish to co-GM with you. No harm in asking him at least.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 08:24 AM
8 teams to go (Carolina, Seattle, Philly, Oakland, San Diego, Tennessee, Houston, Green Bay) and I have princefielder and Shane ready to slot in wherever. I'll give prince GB if no one else comes in begging for them, Seattle otherwise. Shane will just get whoever. And I'm still expecting a signup from Diab who'll probably just go wherever. I sent out some PMs earlier this morning to other guys asking them to join up but haven't heard back yet.

If worst comes to worst, I can take Oakland. They have no draft picks and are in cap hell, so they won't be that active anyway. No one can ***** that I favored myself that way.

Grizzlegom
02-14-2012, 09:27 AM
App Sent.

Random note on the Free Agents, Philip Merling is a restricted free agent for the Dolphins, since he spent a season on the Non-Football Injury list, it didn't count as an accrued season so he's restricted.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 09:34 AM
App Sent.

Random note on the Free Agents, Philip Merling is a restricted free agent for the Dolphins, since he spent a season on the Non-Football Injury list, it didn't count as an accrued season so he's restricted.

Interesting, I didn't know that. I'll update the list. I got your app btw.

That means 7 teams left, with 2 fill in GMs plus hopefully Diab, so really 4 or 5 true openings left.

Hurricanes25
02-14-2012, 10:28 AM
I sent in my application.

ncst8fan83
02-14-2012, 11:03 AM
I'll do it but probably won't be doing too much outside of the draft. Carolina doesn't have much wiggle room with salaries.

vidae
02-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Just an fyi (and not a big deal) but Ryan Succop was signed to a deal, so he's not a FA anymore.

fenikz
02-14-2012, 11:25 AM
lol Richard Marshall is quality? Awesome

Rashad Johnson is a RFA btw

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 11:43 AM
I sent my application in!

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 11:51 AM
I'll do it but probably won't be doing too much outside of the draft. Carolina doesn't have much wiggle room with salaries.


That'd be fine. Just send the sign up email still. You'll still probably want to make some minor signings and stuff for backup players, but if you just want to try and keep the status quo plus draft, that's fine.

Just an fyi (and not a big deal) but Ryan Succop was signed to a deal, so he's not a FA anymore.

I'll look it up and fix it. If you (or anyone) notices other similar problems with the free agent list, pm them to me.

lol Richard Marshall is quality? Awesome

Rashad Johnson is a RFA btw

I'll fix Rashad. And from what I looked up, that seemed about right for Marshall. If he's not worth it then the market will decide.

I sent my application in!

Got it.

fenikz
02-14-2012, 11:59 AM
Well he is a 4th string CB and 3rd string FS, I just won't offer but it's gonna fool someone

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 12:01 PM
Well he is a 4th string CB and 3rd string FS, I just won't offer but it's gonna fool someone

Most places say things like this:

Richard Marshall (ARZ) - Marshall has never been an elite corner, but has some solid seasons under his belt-and potentially none better than this year. He's a physical, capable starting corner and one of the best in the business in run support. Playing a combination of corner and safety (due to the injury of Kerry Rhodes), he was valuable and played a key role in the development and improvement of the Cardinals secondary in the second half of the season. The team will most likely make a play to retain him at a fair price.

So, I went with Quality. So be it.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Alright, if ncst8fan takes Carolina and I fill in Shane, prince and diab, we're down to 2 teams. I'm considering just taking Oakland since they won't be able to do much anyway (plus I have a fun idea for them to spice things up)

So, that leaves Philly. I asked EATW to take them, but he didn't. I'll ask GoEagles77 as he's done well in the past.

fenikz
02-14-2012, 12:15 PM
with this format there isn't any way for me to sign Manning then cut Kolb is there?

:(

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 12:20 PM
with this format there isn't any way for me to sign Manning there cut Kolb is there?

:(

"Then" cut Kolb? Yeah there is. You can make additional cuts anytime. We're just going to start that sooner than we start signing guys, like real life is right now.

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
So are we looking to make an 80 man roster for training camp or just the 53 man roster for the start of the season?

EDIT: This is a great time for me because im not at school until next monday so the more we could get done by then the better! I'll still be around for all the draft picks and if not i'll be sure to leave a draft board.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 12:42 PM
So are we looking to make an 80 man roster for training camp or just the 53 man roster for the start of the season?

Aim for what the season roster will look like plus rookies. I'm not going to be keeping a running count of the total players for each team, but I generally have in mind it looking like what it would look like during the season plus rookies (drafted and UDFAs.)

So, I guess technically somewhere in the middle.

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
Aim for what the season roster will look like plus rookies. I'm not going to be keeping a running count of the total players for each team, but I generally have in mind it looking like what it would look like during the season plus rookies (drafted and UDFAs.)

So, I guess technically somewhere in the middle.

Ok cool and how far are we going with this? Are we finsihing after free agency has finished?

marshallb
02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
I've got a question about the Vikings salary cap numbers, BB. What does Antoine Winfield's contract look like in that? Because a clause was triggered (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Clause_triggered_in_Antoine_Winfields_contract_red ucing_2012_salary121211) in his contract that cuts his salary next year by $4 million, and that would be a pretty big difference in what the Vikings would be able to do in FA.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 01:49 PM
I've got a question about the Vikings salary cap numbers, BB. What does Antoine Winfield's contract look like in that? Because a clause was triggered (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Clause_triggered_in_Antoine_Winfields_contract_red ucing_2012_salary121211) in his contract that cuts his salary next year by $4 million, and that would be a pretty big difference in what the Vikings would be able to do in FA.

Just use Rotoworld: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1165/antoine-winfield

They do mention the de-escalator.

The overall contract situation I'm just going by that article and adding the carryover from last year (the PFT article.)

marshallb
02-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Just use Rotoworld: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1165/antoine-winfield

They do mention the de-escalator.

The overall contract situation I'm just going by that article and adding the carryover from last year (the PFT article.)

OK, I was just wondering if that article has that de-escalator in it or not.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 01:54 PM
OK, I was just wondering if that article has that de-escalator in it or not.

That I couldn't tell you. How significant of a difference is it? I see that it's down to $3 million now, what would it have been before?

marshallb
02-14-2012, 02:01 PM
That I couldn't tell you. How significant of a difference is it? I see that it's down to $3 million now, what would it have been before?

It was $7 million, so a difference of 4 mil.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 02:02 PM
It was $7 million, so a difference of 4 mil.

I'll just keep it in mind in case you and another team are really close on a free agent. Otherwise it probably won't make too much of a big deal.

marshallb
02-14-2012, 02:10 PM
I'll just keep it in mind in case you and another team are really close on a free agent. Otherwise it probably won't make too much of a big deal.

Sounds good to me. It wasn't a big deal, just happened to stumble across it again and figured I should ask.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
I'm still waiting on someone to take the Eagles and hopefully for ncst8fan to formally apply for the Panthers.

I'll post the teams I do have later tonight even I don't get those filled right away.

redbills
02-14-2012, 02:27 PM
Sounds good.

derza222
02-14-2012, 02:33 PM
Sent my app in earlier today.

A Perfect Score
02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Oh, I haven't sent in an application for this. Do I have to BB?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 02:52 PM
Oh, I haven't sent in an application for this. Do I have to BB?

I filled you and Tackle in but never actually got applications from either of you.

A Perfect Score
02-14-2012, 02:55 PM
I filled you and Tackle in but never actually got applications from either of you.

Yeah I'll work the Ravens. TACKLE hasn't been around as much lately, but he's more then welcome to contribute at any point in the process. Until he confirms that, come to me about Ravens things.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 03:14 PM
We're going to use it.

That means I have like 50+ million. :O

A Perfect Score
02-14-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm going to cut so much unwanted garbage. BB, am I allowed to cut COORDINATORS TOO?

ZOMGZ PLEASE!!! I want new ones on both sides of the ball.

jrdrylie
02-14-2012, 03:19 PM
Question about the Colts Salary Cap situation. Based on the link posted, they have somewhere between $5-10 million in cap space plus the carry over from 2011. Does that already figure in cutting Manning or will they have an additional $28 million to work with by not paying Manning the roster bonus?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Question about the Colts Salary Cap situation. Based on the link posted, they have somewhere between $5-10 million in cap space plus the carry over from 2011. Does that already figure in cutting Manning or will they have an additional $28 million to work with by not paying Manning the roster bonus?

Ah, you bring up a good point. I never thought of that....I'll have to do some research.

Also, you're the Cowboys. Yeah, sorry for moving you around so much...

TACKLE
02-14-2012, 03:36 PM
Yeah I'll work the Ravens. TACKLE hasn't been around as much lately, but he's more then welcome to contribute at any point in the process. Until he confirms that, come to me about Ravens things.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l58ztlxkvn1qcczsno1_400.gif

DiG
02-14-2012, 03:36 PM
my quick research says that the colts are $7-8m under the cap including Peytons current salary. Cutting Peyton will supposedly save an additional $6m off of that figure (Remaining Signing Bonus hits cap this year [$4M/year for 4 years remaining] $16M)

marshallb
02-14-2012, 03:38 PM
One more question BB. Will we be using compensatory picks or not?

A Perfect Score
02-14-2012, 03:40 PM
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l58ztlxkvn1qcczsno1_400.gif

Excellent. I shall be on IRC later tonight so we can discuss strategy.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 03:55 PM
Excellent. I shall be on IRC later tonight so we can discuss strategy.

If I had to Co-Gm with APS...

http://myfacewhen.com/images/325.gif

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Are you gonna be picking Kellen Moore in this forum mock Caddy? And if you do please dont put up that horrible photo of him ;)

Caddy
02-14-2012, 03:58 PM
I can guarantee that at some stage during this forum mock, I will be posting that picture. You're just going to have to deal with it.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:05 PM
my quick research says that the colts are $7-8m under the cap including Peytons current salary. Cutting Peyton will supposedly save an additional $6m off of that figure (Remaining Signing Bonus hits cap this year [$4M/year for 4 years remaining] $16M)

Alright, we'll roll with that. I'll make some adjustments to the numbers.

One more question BB. Will we be using compensatory picks or not?

Hmm...we could. Be nice if they were announced before we get to the draft. (They're irrelevant before that since they can't be traded.) If not, we'll think up something.

GoEagles told me he wants in as the Eagles, so hopefully we are full now. I'll just take the Raiders and be low key with them. I'll post up the teams and GMs and...cutting, franchising, RFA tendering, trading, circle jerking over moves....all can begin.

But first I must eat. I have a meeting run 40 minutes long and missed chili day at work. By the time I got to the break room there was nothing left. Seriously. So I haven't eaten in like 10 hours....

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 04:07 PM
I can guarantee that at some stage during this forum mock, I will be posting that picture. You're just going to have to deal with it.http://www.e-laws.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/sad-face.jpg

Caddy
02-14-2012, 04:07 PM
Alright, we'll roll with that. I'll make some adjustments to the numbers.



Hmm...we could. Be nice if they were announced before we get to the draft. (They're irrelevant before that since they can't be traded.) If not, we'll think up something.

GoEagles told me he wants in as the Eagles, so hopefully we are full now. I'll just take the Raiders and be low key with them. I'll post up the teams and GMs and...cutting, franchising, RFA tendering, trading, circle jerking over moves....all can begin.

But first I must eat. I have a meeting run 40 minutes long and missed chili day at work. By the time I got to the break room there was nothing left. Seriously. So I haven't eaten in like 10 hours....

PM RaiderNation. He has taken the Raiders in the last few forum mocks.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:08 PM
PM RaiderNation. He has taken the Raiders in the last few forum mocks.

Already did, he turned them down.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 04:08 PM
Already did, he turned them down.

What a jerk!

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 04:09 PM
So it officially starts when? And the first deadline to do whatever we're doing now is when?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:12 PM
We'll see how long it takes for me to hear from every team in terms of cuts and things. Hopefully no more than a day or two. Then, I'll let people know when they can start sending free agent offers. I'll give everyone some time to get them in and then I'll temporarily close it until I review the offers.

marshallb
02-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Hmm...we could. Be nice if they were announced before we get to the draft. (They're irrelevant before that since they can't be traded.) If not, we'll think up something.

I don't think they announce them until sometime toward the end of March, like last year they announced them March 25th which would be way late. This guy predicted them (http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/1/6/2686334/2012-compensatory-draft-pick-predictions) and has been pretty close in the past, although we may have/want to make a few changes.

Matthew Jones
02-14-2012, 04:40 PM
We could always use the compensatory picks I awarded in the last forum mock. I put a lot of work into coming up with the list, and aside from some minor modifications which I would be happy to make, it's probably more convenient to stick with those than to go through every team's free agent signings all over again as well as re-checking the dollar amounts for all of the major free agents.

Brothgar
02-14-2012, 04:46 PM
Where are the team announcements?

Matthew Jones
02-14-2012, 04:46 PM
Just took a look and things were actually pretty much correct, although I adjusted the order a little bit by moving Johnathan Joseph from the fourth to the third round, reorganizing the list of players with an average annual value of $6 million per season, adjusting Darryn Colledge's average annual value, and adding salary information for Robert Gallery. I'm no AdamJT13, but basing everything off of average annual value (with the length of the contract serving as a tie-breaker) seemed like the most impartial method possible. Here's the result; feel free to use it as-is, make any adjustments you see fit, or make a different list:

Round 3

Raiders - CB Nnamdi Asomugha ($12)
Bengals - CB Johnathan Joseph ($9.25)

Round 4

Vikings - WR Sidney Rice ($8.25)
Bills - LB Paul Posluszny ($7)
Seahawks - QB Matt Hasselbeck ($7)

Round 5

Raiders - TE Zach Miller ($6.75)
Packers - DT Cullen Jenkins ($6)
Giants - DT Barry Cofield ($6)
Vikings - DE Ray Edwards ($6)
Colts - LB Clint Session ($6)
Titans - DE Jason Babin ($5.75)
Cowboys - DT Stephen Bowen ($5.50)
Packers - Daryn Colledge ($5.25)
Chargers - LB Kevin Burnett ($5.25)
Bears - FS Danieal Manning ($5)
Raiders - OG Robert Gallery ($5)

Round 6

Ravens - CB Josh Wilson ($4.5)
Falcons - OG Harvey Dahl ($4)
Giants - TE Kevin Boss ($4)
Vikings - QB Tarvaris Jackson ($4)
Jets - WR Brad Smith ($3.75)
Packers - LB Nick Barnett ($3.75)
Bills - SS Donte Whitner ($3.75)
Chargers - RB Darren Sproles ($3.5)
Colts - OT Charlie Johnson ($3.5)
49ers - LB Takeo Spikes ($3)

Round 7

Ravens - RB Willis McGahee ($2.75)
Ravens - TE Todd Heap ($2.75)
Panthers - QB Matt Moore ($2.5)
Browns - CB Eric Wright (N/A)
Buccaneers - LB Barrett Ruud (N/A)
Ravens - RB Le'Ron McClain (N/A)

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:48 PM
Team announcements:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2858033&#post2858033

zachsaints52
02-14-2012, 04:54 PM
Got the.... Saints? Weird I figured Diabs or CJ woulda took them.

marshallb
02-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Just took a look and things were actually pretty much correct, although I adjusted the order a little bit by moving Johnathan Joseph from the fourth to the third round, reorganizing the list of players with an average annual value of $6 million per season, adjusting Darryn Colledge's average annual value, and adding salary information for Robert Gallery. I'm no AdamJT13, but basing everything off of average annual value (with the length of the contract serving as a tie-breaker) seemed like the most impartial method possible. Here's the result; feel free to use it as-is, make any adjustments you see fit, or make a different list:

Round 3

Raiders - CB Nnamdi Asomugha ($12)
Bengals - CB Johnathan Joseph ($9.25)

Round 4

Vikings - WR Sidney Rice ($8.25)
Bills - LB Paul Posluszny ($7)
Seahawks - QB Matt Hasselbeck ($7)

Round 5

Raiders - TE Zach Miller ($6.75)
Packers - DT Cullen Jenkins ($6)
Giants - DT Barry Cofield ($6)
Vikings - DE Ray Edwards ($6)
Colts - LB Clint Session ($6)
Titans - DE Jason Babin ($5.75)
Cowboys - DT Stephen Bowen ($5.50)
Packers - Daryn Colledge ($5.25)
Chargers - LB Kevin Burnett ($5.25)
Bears - FS Danieal Manning ($5)
Raiders - OG Robert Gallery ($5)

Round 6

Ravens - CB Josh Wilson ($4.5)
Falcons - OG Harvey Dahl ($4)
Giants - TE Kevin Boss ($4)
Vikings - QB Tarvaris Jackson ($4)
Jets - WR Brad Smith ($3.75)
Packers - LB Nick Barnett ($3.75)
Bills - SS Donte Whitner ($3.75)
Chargers - RB Darren Sproles ($3.5)
Colts - OT Charlie Johnson ($3.5)
49ers - LB Takeo Spikes ($3)

Round 7

Ravens - RB Willis McGahee ($2.75)
Ravens - TE Todd Heap ($2.75)
Panthers - QB Matt Moore ($2.5)
Browns - CB Eric Wright (N/A)
Buccaneers - LB Barrett Ruud (N/A)
Ravens - RB Le'Ron McClain (N/A)

I always thought that anything over $7 million annually would equate to a 3rd round pick, and then anything over $6 mil would equate to a 4th, meaning that Rice would be a 3rd and Miller would be a 4th. Other than that it looks good from what I've read.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:56 PM
Got the.... Saints? Weird I figured Diabs or CJ woulda took them.

Diab never officially signed up, I just gave him a team because he said he was going to. And CJ was willing to take some others.

zachsaints52
02-14-2012, 04:57 PM
Diab never officially signed up, I just gave him a team because he said he was going to. And CJ was willing to take some others.

True.

Can we set up trade blocks and all?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
You do whatever you want within the rules laid out on the first page.

I'm going to put up a depth chart thread where you can list things like your trade block and such. I ask that people keep them updated for ease of keeping track of your moves.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-14-2012, 05:00 PM
So, what are we doing now? Cuts?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 05:02 PM
So, what are we doing now? Cuts?

We're starting the first stage. Email me your cuts, franchise tags, RFA tenders, trades. And post your depth chart/trade block.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 05:04 PM
Kellen Winslow and Jeff Faine are on the block. Please, don't rush me.

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Will i get a chance to resign my players or will it just go to free agency and me hoping i get the players i want back.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 05:28 PM
Will i get a chance to resign my players or will it just go to free agency and me hoping i get the players i want back.

You can franchise one and tender any of your RFAs at higher levels, otherwise, you just have to try and win them back.

More fun that way.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Stupid BB. Nobody was supposed to know about Connor Barth! Now I have to think about franchising him!

redbills
02-14-2012, 05:45 PM
Packers cut LB Nick Barnett ($3.75). They don't get a pick since they cut him I thought?

Matthew Jones
02-14-2012, 05:45 PM
Packers cut LB Nick Barnett ($3.75). They don't get a pick since they cut him I thought?

You're right on that one. Another pick should be added to the seventh round (there are 32 compensatory picks per year.)

RaiderNation
02-14-2012, 05:48 PM
What a jerk!

I'm willing to be co-GM's with you BB. I won't be able to help much during this weekend, but I do have a feel for the Raiders cap situation and what they will likely do this off season.

Go_Eagles77
02-14-2012, 05:53 PM
Hey BB, how do you let us know if we're accepted or not?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:00 PM
Stupid BB. Nobody was supposed to know about Connor Barth! Now I have to think about franchising him!

Haha, I was trying to **** some people's plans over with that post.

I'm willing to be co-GM's with you BB. I won't be able to help much during this weekend, but I do have a feel for the Raiders cap situation and what they will likely do this off season.

If you want to PM me your ideas, I'll take them. Whoever you'd cut, sign, whatever. I'm open to suggestions.

Hey BB, how do you let us know if we're accepted or not?

Check the first page. I guess I could make it more clear...

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 06:03 PM
You can franchise one and tender any of your RFAs at higher levels, otherwise, you just have to try and win them back.

More fun that way.

More scary that way ;) im guessing i'll have the priority though, if say jermicahel finley has two offers at the same level one from me and one from another team would he automatically go to me? Or at least have more chance of going to me?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:05 PM
More scary that way ;) im guessing i'll have the priority though.

In some cases, the team will have an advantage in resigning. Not all though.

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 06:09 PM
In some cases, the team will have an advantage in resigning. Not all though.

Ok, yeah thats fair.

But saying as the Green Bay Packers are a historic, competitive team we will get the advantages when it comes to free agency siginings right? ;)

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:09 PM
Well, you'll have to make that argument in your reasoning for signing a guy.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 06:11 PM
Why would anyone want to play in the snow when they could play in a stadium that has a pirate ship!

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 06:12 PM
Well, you'll have to make that argument in your reasoning for signing a guy.

Yeah ok.

I'll be sending you my cuts tomorrow.

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Why would anyone want to play in the snow when they could play in a stadium that has a pirate ship!

Maybe because they dont wanna play with this guy...

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/1113/dm_101112ncf_boisest_idaho_final.jpg

Im saving the real one for you ;)

Caddy
02-14-2012, 06:18 PM
Maybe because they dont wanna play with this guy...

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/1113/dm_101112ncf_boisest_idaho_final.jpg

Im saving the real one for you ;)

Lucky for them, they wouldn't know they'd be playing with rainbow fingers until it is too late!

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
I was working on the Cardinals and suddenly 4 more emails come in. I'm going to be at this for a while...don't fret if I don't get to your team right away.

Brothgar
02-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Good I don't have to go crazy trying to get this done tonight then.

fenikz
02-14-2012, 06:24 PM
And 1 more(or 2) but they should say the same thing

SuperPacker
02-14-2012, 06:28 PM
Lucky for them, they wouldn't know they'd be playing with rainbow fingers until it is too late!

Thats not a nice suprise to throw on your players.

scottyboy
02-14-2012, 06:36 PM
yeah i probs wont have my cuts in til tomorrow

also, i'm verifying. whatever the tits that means

redbills
02-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Bills willing to deal FredEx for the right price. Pm me and make an offer.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 06:48 PM
Make sure that both parties in a trade send me emails. Just a reminder.

Shane P. Hallam
02-14-2012, 06:50 PM
I'd suggest a separate timeline thread for when things are due (cuts, each wave of free agency, draft, trades, etc).

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 07:00 PM
I'd suggest a separate timeline thread for when things are due (cuts, each wave of free agency, draft, trades, etc).

Alright, I'll work it out. It's just cuts, franchise tags, RFAs and possible trades right now.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 07:01 PM
A timeline is a good idea. That way there is no excuse if people fail to meet those deadlines.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 07:04 PM
Alright, I'll get a timeline up shortly.

Also, does anyone know the actual RFA tender levels in the new CBA? I know the 1st and 3rd no longer exists.

I believe it's:

1st
2nd
Round the Player was Drafted in
Right to Match Only (No compensation)

Everything I can find easily online still only has the old RFA tender levels.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 07:25 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51014

There's the timeline. Does anyone have an answer for my RFA question above?

redbills
02-14-2012, 07:25 PM
That is all i found as well.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 07:27 PM
Alright, well, everyone who sent me an RFA tender of a 3rd round, I'm just going to make it a 2nd round tender and move on.

Go_Eagles77
02-14-2012, 07:53 PM
PM me if you're interested in DeSean Jackson or Asante Samuel.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 08:10 PM
Dear people,

Stop franchising guys I want.

Cheers,
Caddy

ChiFan24
02-14-2012, 08:18 PM
Shockingly enough, Forte has been tagged. If someone wants to sign him though, I'll happily take a couple first rounders.

Shane P. Hallam
02-14-2012, 08:27 PM
Looking to move Marcus McNeil or Luis Castillo on the cheap.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 08:28 PM
Would not have expected Simpson to get the tag, but even with that, the Bengals are still one of the furthest teams under the cap.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 08:38 PM
Lol at that franchise

Shane P. Hallam
02-14-2012, 08:46 PM
I feel like Mike Brown would murder himself before franchising Jerome Simpson

Caddy
02-14-2012, 08:47 PM
Can GM's be fired?

Hines
02-14-2012, 08:47 PM
BB, I sent you an email. Let me know if I did it correctly.

Shane P. Hallam
02-14-2012, 08:48 PM
Can GM's be fired?

Yes, you are fired Caddy.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 08:48 PM
Yes, you are fired Caddy.

:( :( :( :(

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 08:49 PM
BB, I sent you an email. Let me know if I did it correctly.

Yeah, I got it. Looks good.

Hines
02-14-2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I got it. Looks good.

Don't be surprised if you get another email soon. I'm still deciding on one other cut.

DiG
02-14-2012, 08:57 PM
Skinzzzzzzzzzz

DiG
02-14-2012, 09:03 PM
free agents in depth charts done confused me...

DiG
02-14-2012, 09:08 PM
what irc room are we in?

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 09:20 PM
free agents in depth charts done confused me...

Yeahh....

what irc room are we in?

No idea. Forgot all about it actually, hah.

diabsoule
02-14-2012, 09:20 PM
I completely forgot about IRC too.

Titans just sent in their tenders

TheBoyWonder22
02-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Broncos cuts and depth chart in tomorrow. I think I'm now second in terms of the amount of money I have to spend. Expect some big moves by Denver, I'm still deciding on what to do with Timmy.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 10:02 PM
Broncos cuts and depth chart in tomorrow. I think I'm now second in terms of the amount of money I have to spend. Expect some big moves by Denver, I'm still deciding on what to do with Timmy.

Yep, only Tampa has more with Cincy right there too.

ChiFan24
02-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Stevie Johnson franchised?!? How dare he be put into the same elite category as Jerome Simpson! The Bears are highly disappointed.

Caddy
02-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Yes, you are fired Caddy.

Yep, only Tampa has more with Cincy right there too.

:D CAP SPACEEEEEE

Can't wait to see if someone with a low first signs Arian Foster away.

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Stevie Johnson franchised?!? How dare he be put into the same elite category as Jerome Simpson! The Bears are highly disappointed.

Bowe and VJax are both hitting the market at least.

:D CAP SPACEEEEEE

Can't wait to see if someone with a low first signs Arian Foster away.

The last time the Bucs had copious amounts of cap space they....tried and failed to get Haynesworth the first time through?

Caddy
02-14-2012, 10:09 PM
The last time the Bucs had copious amounts of cap space they....tried and failed to get Haynesworth the first time through?

I'm running **** this time though, not Mark Dominik!

BeerBaron
02-14-2012, 10:31 PM
Keep everything coming. I've got to get to bed if I want to function at work tomorrow, but I'll catch back up whenever I have time.

Matthew Jones
02-14-2012, 10:45 PM
Just emailed in my first trade. Who's ready for my Bill Belichick impersonation?

marshallb
02-15-2012, 12:56 AM
I'll get my cuts and stuff into you tomorrow BB.

Caddy
02-15-2012, 02:17 AM
The last time the Bucs had copious amounts of cap space they....tried and failed to get Haynesworth the first time through?

“We’ll be more active in free agency that we were last year,” Bucs G.M. Mark Dominik said Tuesday via the Tampa Tribune. “We purposely rolled every penny we could into this year’s cap. Clubs didn’t have to do that, but we wanted to. We have plans.” 60+ million in cap spaceSee, the Bucs are serious this time!!!! I mean, they have to be, right?

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 06:09 AM
I sent you an email BeerBaron.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 07:01 AM
I need to get ahead at work and then I'll start going through the emails I've received.

Also, please send your cuts and franchise tag announcements to me. Matt posted everything he needed to, but I'd prefer to get the first so that I can be sure to update the free agent list and the team's salary cap situation. I don't want to miss anyone.

Finally, feel free to list your RFA's and Franchise players in your depth chart. You only have to remove them if someone else signs them.

Grizzlegom
02-15-2012, 07:01 AM
Jacoby Jones is available, send me a PM if you're interested.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 07:16 AM
Im franchising Jermichael Finley but im willing to trade him for anyone that wants a TE with tons of potential.

DiG
02-15-2012, 07:48 AM
skins making big moves early. for a teaser you can check my depth chart...

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 07:52 AM
skins making big moves early. for a teaser you can check my depth chart...

Just remember that for a move to be official, it has to go through me, so please email them to me.

DiG
02-15-2012, 07:53 AM
Just remember that for a move to be official, it has to go through me, so please email them to me.

i emailed them 5-10 minutes ago :)

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 07:54 AM
i emailed them 5-10 minutes ago :)

I haven't gotten it yet, but sometimes emails take a while to go through. You may just want to doublecheck the email address. If it's correct, it'll get to me at some point.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 07:58 AM
I got it now. It just takes a little bit I guess.

DiG
02-15-2012, 07:58 AM
I haven't gotten it yet, but sometimes emails take a while to go through. You may just want to doublecheck the email address. If it's correct, it'll get to me at some point.

hmm you're right. no idea where that other email address came from but it was the wrong address. should have it now.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 07:59 AM
skins making big moves early. for a teaser you can check my depth chart...

peyton manning...

Matthew Jones
02-15-2012, 08:06 AM
skins making big moves early. for a teaser you can check my depth chart...

You've cloned Kory Lichtensteiger?

My God...

DiG
02-15-2012, 08:09 AM
You've cloned Kory Lichtensteiger?

My God...

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/7/14/128920822159019619.jpg

Matthew Jones
02-15-2012, 08:11 AM
Player-to-player comparisons are finally valid! That Kory Lichtensteiger guy really reminds me of Kory Lichtensteiger.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 08:16 AM
Yeah, well the Bears have a Devin Hester at WR and a Devin Hester at CB. Your arguments are invalid.

Line both guys up deep to return punts and kicks and...dear god...the carnage...

But seriously, the Bears really need help at CB. We have Tillman, DJ Moore....and Donovan Warren. Think about that for a second.

jrdrylie
02-15-2012, 08:23 AM
What does it mean if a guy is Exclusive Rights? Do I have to tender them?

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 08:28 AM
What does it mean if a guy is Exclusive Rights? Do I have to tender them?

An Exclusive Rights free agent is basically a guy who isn't under contract, but has fewer than 3 years in the league I think, so he's basically stuck on his current team unless that team chooses not to tender him.

Most of them are so irrelevant and cheap that I didn't even bother including them on the free agent list, since for all intents and purposes, they aren't free agents. Everyone keeps their Exclusive Rights free agents.

killxswitch
02-15-2012, 08:33 AM
So do teams get first crack at their own free agents like in real life or is it just a free-for-all?

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 08:38 AM
So do teams get first crack at their own free agents like in real life or is it just a free-for-all?

Gonna be a free for all. More fun that way I think. A lot of teams will have advantages in resigning their own players though if the deals are fairly equal.

If you think the guy will resign, or has said he wants to, include that in your arguments or a link to an article where he says it. It'll help your case.

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 08:42 AM
An Exclusive Rights free agent is basically a guy who isn't under contract, but has fewer than 3 years in the league I think, so he's basically stuck on his current team unless that team chooses not to tender him.

Most of them are so irrelevant and cheap that I didn't even bother including them on the free agent list, since for all intents and purposes, they aren't free agents. Everyone keeps their Exclusive Rights free agents.

Saints main guys for this is Brian de le Puente and Jonathon Amaya, both of whom I want back.

Also, what about the deals that have undisclosed picks? I know the Reggie trade to the Dolphins has a pick based on performance.....

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 08:44 AM
Saints main guys for this is Brian de le Puente and Jonathon Amaya, both of whom I want back.

Also, what about the deals that have undisclosed picks? I know the Reggie trade to the Dolphins has a pick based on performance.....

See if you can find anything at all about it that would specify. Otherwise, we'll just make something up that seems reasonable.

Grizzlegom
02-15-2012, 08:50 AM
See if you can find anything at all about it that would specify. Otherwise, we'll just make something up that seems reasonable.

The Bush trade was a swap of 6th round picks + amaya

killxswitch
02-15-2012, 08:54 AM
Just sent my cuts and one restructure. I did the best I could with it since there weren't many instructions on a restructure. I think it is pretty realistic though, especially for our purposes.

I hope everybody is using Spotrac.com for their salary cap stuff. It is so easy.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 08:56 AM
Restructures were only going to be accepted if they happened in real life before we started. I just didn't have a good idea on how to enforce fair rules on it here. I'll take a look at what you sent and we'll see if we can work something out.

I just didn't want to include it because suddenly, everyone will by trying to restructure half their roster and I just didn't want to deal with it.

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 08:57 AM
Restructures were only going to be accepted if they happened in real life before we started. I just didn't have a good idea on how to enforce fair rules on it here. I'll take a look at what you sent and we'll see if we can work something out.

I just didn't want to include it because suddenly, everyone will by trying to restructure half their roster and I just didn't want to deal with it.

That would be bad because I know one of my cuts would restructure.....

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 09:00 AM
The Bush trade was a swap of 6th round picks + amaya

Link? Ive always wondered because it was a undisclosed pick.

Grizzlegom
02-15-2012, 09:05 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/30767/at-last-details-of-reggie-bush-trade

killxswitch
02-15-2012, 09:08 AM
If the restructure won't work I will have to cut the guy.

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 09:10 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/30767/at-last-details-of-reggie-bush-trade

Thanks.

Pretty sucky though, I was hoping Loomis woulda jokingly added if he runs for 1k we get a 2nd.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 09:12 AM
If the restructure won't work I will have to cut the guy.

Yeah, just to keep everything fair, I'll just have you release him. If you want him back cheaper, try to resign him and explain that in your arguments. If he doesn't get better offers elsewhere, he'll probably resign.

That goes for anyone who wants to resign someone they've cut.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 09:43 AM
Do we need to leave space for rookies and how much does each free agent group cost against the cap?

draftguru151
02-15-2012, 09:46 AM
The only way restructuring would work if its a younger guy late in his contract with a high cap number this year getting a long term extension to lower his number. Wouldn't mind being able to do that, maybe each team can get one of those if it makes sense and BB approves the extension?

Shane P. Hallam
02-15-2012, 09:47 AM
The only way restructuring would work if its a younger guy late in his contract with a high cap number this year getting a long term extension to lower his number. Wouldn't mind being able to do that, maybe each team can get one of those if it makes sense and BB approves the extension?

It's a tad late for those of us who released guys we would have tried to restructure, lol.

TheBoyWonder22
02-15-2012, 09:48 AM
I've got money to blow. I don't think I'll miss any of my guys.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 09:49 AM
The only way restructuring would work if its a younger guy late in his contract with a high cap number this year getting a long term extension to lower his number. Wouldn't mind being able to do that, maybe each team can get one of those if it makes sense and BB approves the extension?

What about the young guys that out performed their contracts? I'm sure Victor Cruz will be making noise come the start of the season if he doesnt get a better deal.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 09:51 AM
Do we need to leave space for rookies and how much does each free agent group cost against the cap?

No, I included that already. I feel like I explained this somewhere already but the article listing the 2012 cap numbers doesn't account for the $5 million teams save for rookies and in-season moves. They do mention it though. So, I set the cap to $125 and deducted $5 million for each team.

This has already been included in my calculations for every team, so none of you need to worry about it.

It's a tad late for those of us who released guys we would have tried to restructure, lol.

Indeed. If you want the guy back, try to resign him as a free agent and just explain that you wanted to keep him after a restructure and all that. If interest isn't high in him otherwise, you're odds of getting him back are good.

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 09:51 AM
What about the young guys that out performed their contracts? I'm sure Victor Cruz will be making noise come the start of the season if he doesnt get a better deal.

I dont think we are worried about that, since we are just looking at offseason.

Just go ahead with the stuff he laid out.

Hines
02-15-2012, 09:52 AM
Are there going to be updated cap numbers?

draftguru151
02-15-2012, 09:54 AM
It's a tad late for those of us who released guys we would have tried to restructure, lol.

You probably wouldn't cut a young guy who you'd like to extend.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 09:55 AM
Are there going to be updated cap numbers?

I'm not going to post exact numbers, but if you guys would like it, I'll make another post similar to my previous one in the media thread letting everyone know generally where they stand.

If I start throwing out exact numbers as I have them, there will be minor disagreements EVERYWHERE.

"Where did you get that I'm only $30 million under? My calculations are that I should be $31.5 million under! WTF BB as;ldkfjal;skjdfa;lkajsf!!!!!!!!!"

If one million makes a difference in not getting a guy, then you should have made better arguments.

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 09:57 AM
i know it's a stupid and insignificant thing and I hate being that guy, but it says on the giants site Ballard and Pascoe as RFA's...can I just say I keep them because let's be real here...it's 2 white guys, one with a torn ACL and one is bear pascoe

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 09:59 AM
i know it's a stupid and insignificant thing and I hate being that guy, but it says on the giants site Ballard and Pascoe as RFA's...can I just say I keep them because let's be real here...it's 2 white guys, one with a torn ACL and one is bear pascoe

They're both exclusive rights I believe. I left them off the free agent list as result.

If no other team has a chance to actually sign the guy, I didn't bother putting him on the list. And that is how Exclusive Rights free agents work. It's almost an oxymoron to call them a "free agent."

They're "free" to sign only with the team they're currently on.

And they're all typically on minimum deals, so everyone keeps them at no penalty.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:01 AM
i know it's a stupid and insignificant thing and I hate being that guy, but it says on the giants site Ballard and Pascoe as RFA's...can I just say I keep them because let's be real here...it's 2 white guys, one with a torn ACL and one is bear pascoe

i'll trade you jermichael finley

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 10:05 AM
i'll trade you jermichael finley

uhm, did you just read BB's post? I can keep Ballard and Pascoe for virtually nothing. I don't need Finley

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 10:06 AM
uhm, did you just read BB's post? I can keep Ballard and Pascoe for virtually nothing. I don't need Finley

Yeah, you keep them, but it's not like either is a world beater. Plus Ballard and Beckum are expected to start the year on the PUP list...you'll need a TE eventually.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 10:08 AM
READ:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2860200&#post2860200

If most of the teams have submitted everything, free agency will hopefully open up tomorrow morning.

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 10:08 AM
Yeah, you keep them, but it's not like either is a world beater. Plus Ballard and Beckum are expected to start the year on the PUP list...you'll need a TE eventually.

i guess someone was too busy making incriminating news stories to turn on their sarcasm meter...

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:09 AM
Yeah, you keep them, but it's not like either is a world beater. Plus Ballard and Beckum are expected to start the year on the PUP list...you'll need a TE eventually.

what he said...

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:10 AM
i guess someone was too busy making incriminating news stories to turn on their sarcasm meter...

that was the least sarcastic post ever lol.

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 10:49 AM
Ravens will have their stuff in by tonight. Just going through cuts and so on.

DiG
02-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Ravens will have their stuff in by tonight. Just going through cuts and so on.

For the fun of the mock you should just let Ray Rice walk ;)

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:54 AM
would i be allowed to trade charles woodson or would it be too unrealistic?

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 10:54 AM
For the fun of the mock you should just let Ray Rice walk ;)

YOU SHOULD GO TO HELL!

Seriously though, even if I let him walk, you wouldn't get him. Scotty would pay him $20 mill a year to come to the giants.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 10:55 AM
For the fun of the mock you should just let Ray Rice walk ;)

Cam Cameron has threatened resignation if the Ravens overpay to bring him back. Cam is sick and ************* tired of having to call so many of his precious plays for Rice. He'd MUCH rather be showing off his offensive geniusness by sending Boldin 40 yards deep and having Flacco stand in the pocket ready to throw a bomb to him.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 10:56 AM
would i be allowed to trade charles woodson or would it be too unrealistic?

That wouldn't be too crazy. I find it unrealistic that you'll find a partner though, heh.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:57 AM
That wouldn't be too crazy. I find it unrealistic that you'll find a partner though, heh.

pro bowl player, 7 ints last year, great leader of men. sounds like a 1st round pick to me.

And he could easily make the move to safety so his career still has a some upside.

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Cam Cameron has threatened resignation if the Ravens overpay to bring him back. Cam is sick and ************* tired of having to call so many of his precious plays for Rice. He'd MUCH rather be showing off his offensive geniusness by sending Boldin 40 yards deep and having Flacco stand in the pocket ready to throw a bomb to him.

For the record, the Ravens are firing the living hell out of Cam Cameron and Dan Pees. We'll be bringing in Hue Jackson to run the offense, and...someone to run the defense. I haven't gotten that far yet.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 10:58 AM
For the record, the Ravens are firing the living hell out of Cam Cameron and Dan Pees. We'll be bringing in Hue Jackson to run the offense, and...someone to run the defense. I haven't gotten that far yet.

The Ravens making wise coaching decisions? Too unrealistic. Rejected.

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 10:59 AM
YOU SHOULD GO TO HELL!

Seriously though, even if I let him walk, you wouldn't get him. Scotty would pay him $20 mill a year to come to the giants.

HE. WILL. BE. MINE.

muwahahahaha

no but really, I'm going to get him

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 10:59 AM
The Ravens making wise coaching decisions? Too unrealistic. Rejected.

going by that rule the packers shouldn't be allowed to sign any free agents :(

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 11:00 AM
HE. WILL. BE. MINE.

muwahahahaha

no but really, I'm going to get him

Sure, just give us JPP and your first rounder.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 11:00 AM
The Giants accidentally release this headline on their web page:

Mara family signs over share of Giants franchise to sign Ray Rice; Ravens given 100 first round picks in compensation.

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 11:01 AM
The Ravens making wise coaching decisions? Too unrealistic. Rejected.

ITS HAPPENING BB! I AM IN CHARGE OF THE GOD DAMNED RAVENS!

Cam Cameron fired. Hue Jackson hired. Book it.

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 11:08 AM
pro bowl player, 7 ints last year, great leader of men. sounds like a 1st round pick to me.

And he could easily make the move to safety so his career still has a some upside.

A first round pick for Woodson? Wowwwwwwwwww.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 11:08 AM
A first round pick for Woodson? Wowwwwwwwwww.

Packers fan overvaluing a Packers player? No way! That never happens!

zachsaints52
02-15-2012, 11:09 AM
Packers fan overvaluing a Packers player? No way! That never happens!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BeerBaron again.

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 11:10 AM
Sure, just give us JPP and your first rounder.

or. OR. I'll just do what BB said.

I'll just sign him away from you, it's not a big deal or anything.

fenikz
02-15-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm sure you just don't feel the need to make another post but did you get my RFA tender for Hyphen

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 11:11 AM
or. OR. I'll just do what BB said.

I'll just sign him away from you, it's not a big deal or anything.

Too bad Brian Leonard isn't also a free agent. Both of those guys in your offensive backfield? Jacobs and Bradshaw who?

16-0 and another Superbowl yo.

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 11:12 AM
I'm sure you just don't feel the need to make another post but did you get my RFA tender for Hyphen

Yes. And he's listed as such on the free agent sheet. (Check the comment by hovering over his name)

scottyboy
02-15-2012, 11:12 AM
Too bad Brian Leonard isn't also a free agent. Both of those guys in your offensive backfield? Jacobs and Bradshaw who?

16-0 and another Superbowl yo.

Do you seriously think that I haven't already PM'ed the Bengals about Brian Leonard? Go through my PM's. No seriously, do it.
because I have.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 11:19 AM
A first round pick for Woodson? Wowwwwwwwwww.

I hope you know I was joking ;)

fenikz
02-15-2012, 11:19 AM
Yes. And he's listed as such on the free agent sheet. (Check the comment by hovering over his name)

Using an iPad don't know if possible

You forgot Rashad Johnson again though

A Perfect Score
02-15-2012, 11:22 AM
I'd comfortably give a 5th rounder for Woodson. Imagine Ed Reed and Charles Woodson patrolling the same secondary. INTERCEPTIONZZZ

BeerBaron
02-15-2012, 11:25 AM
I'd comfortably give a 5th rounder for Woodson. Imagine Ed Reed and Charles Woodson patrolling the same secondary. INTERCEPTIONZZZ

Two games in, both would be injured. They'd hobble around and get the occasional garbage pick.

But teh leadershipzzzzz you say? Pfft...

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 11:28 AM
Two games in, both would be injured. They'd hobble around and get the occasional garbage pick.

But teh leadershipzzzzz you say? Pfft...

Woodson doesnt have an injury past...