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View Full Version : Mayock: "Luck is great but not once in a life-time"


bucfan12
02-15-2012, 04:33 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/mayock-luck-is-great-but-not-a-once-in-a-lifetime/

Finally someone who makes sense. As much as I like Andrew Luck and think he's worthy of a top 3 pick, he's not this great prospect that so many are hyping him to be. He isn't the next John Elway in terms of physical tools or talent, he doesn't have the upside of Peyton Manning.

I think the comparison to Sam Bradford is kind of harsh. Luck does remind me a bit of a Matt Ryan, but probably a better prospect.

Prowler
02-15-2012, 05:04 PM
I think his arm is a little weaker than Aaron Rodgers, but his athleticism reminds me of him more than Matt Ryan. Andrew Luck is the anti-Jamarcus Russell. He's a guy who can still make all the throws, but is lightyears ahead of some NFL QBs(Sanchez, Gabbert) in presnap recognition. Its a game of matchups, and Luck knows where his matchups are on every play. I'm not worried about his arm. I think accuracy clearly trumps strength, as Drew Brees has proven.

Forenci
02-15-2012, 05:10 PM
I think his arm is a little weaker than Aaron Rodgers, but his athleticism reminds me of him more than Matt Ryan. Andrew Luck is the anti-Jamarcus Russell. He's a guy who can still make all the throws, but is lightyears ahead of some NFL QBs(Sanchez, Gabbert) in presnap recognition. Its a game of matchups, and Luck knows where his matchups are on every play. I'm not worried about his arm. I think accuracy clearly trumps strength, as Drew Brees has proven.

Pretty much this. We get too enamored with physical tools at the QB position.

No, Luck doesn't have a cannon but he has solid/good arm strength. More than enough to do whatever is needed with the ball. What makes him special is his mechanics, footwork, accuracy and of course what's between the ears.

Peyton Manning didn't have a rocket arm coming out of college either. I would argue Luck has a ton of upside too. No, maybe he won't be Peyton Manning, but then again who really is? Peyton is almost in his own league in terms of what he's done at the position in terms of running an offense.

niel89
02-15-2012, 05:24 PM
The 'once in a lifetime' tag is a little much. Manning and Elway are both considered in the same life time and they were better prospects. It's exciting to tag a player as other worldly but it people get sick of talking about it.

That being said I think that Luck is the best combination of physical talent, pro readiness, intangibles, and production since Peyton. I don't actually think that is the biggest statement in the world either once you go back and look at the QBs between then and now.

DraftSavant
02-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Such revisionist history with Manning as a draft prospect.

People had this exact same argument with him when he was coming out. Same questions about an elite arm, too.

FUNBUNCHER
02-15-2012, 05:39 PM
I think Luck's arm is underrated because he focused so much on throwing with touch and accuracy that you rarely saw him rip the ball even on downfield routes. The few times he did I saw a guy with a stud arm.

It's hard for me to place Luck as a prospect simply because he's been hyped as the next-big-thing for two years.
He's definitely an unusual prospect as in there aren't any easy comparisons for him.

I don't have a problem with people comparing him to Peyton Manning coming out of Tennessee, since most analysts only view Peyton as an all world prospect in hindsight compared to his pro career.

Peyton still came up small in big games as a Vol, and the year after he left nearly the exact same football team with Tee Martin at QB won the NC.

If Luck improves just 20% on the QB his was in college, he's going to be awesome in the NFL.

descendency
02-15-2012, 05:42 PM
I think the comparison to Sam Bradford is kind of harsh. Luck does remind me a bit of a Matt Ryan, but probably a better prospect.

It's really harsh when the guy you are comparing him to is bottom 3 in QBR the past 2 years. He's in the same class as Jimmy Clausen, Blaine Gabbert, and Colt McCoy.

At least with Matt Ryan, he's an average QB.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 05:43 PM
When has anyone called him "once in a life time".

All i've heard is "best prospect since Peyton Manning" or "once in a decade". Both of these are true.

descendency
02-15-2012, 05:43 PM
The few times he did I saw a guy with a stud arm.

He tried to gun it every down quite a few times after Phil Simms came out and said his arm was just average.

Babylon
02-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Such revisionist history with Manning as a draft prospect.

People had this exact same argument with him when he was coming out. Same questions about an elite arm, too.

Exactly. There was the whole he couldnt win a title, arm issues, even some opting for Ryan Leaf.

As for Mayock or anyone else at NFLN having an opinion on a QB, one it is sure to change and two i'd listen to people in here before anyone at that outfit.

Complex
02-15-2012, 05:51 PM
I came he after I saw that article. Glad Mayock agree with me lol.BTW I think RGIII is better.

SuperPacker
02-15-2012, 05:53 PM
Exactly. There was the whole he couldnt win a title, arm issues, even some opting for Ryan Leaf.

As for Mayock or anyone else at NFLN having an opinion on a QB, one it is sure to change and two i'd listen to people in here before anyone at that outfit.

In the end how he's seen as a prospect will be decided by how he plays in the pros. People will always find ways to hate on great players like Luck, but if in 10 years he's what every expects him to be people will be saying "he's the best prospect since Andrew Luck" about college quarterbacks of the future.

K Train
02-15-2012, 06:12 PM
i wonder who he considers once in a lifetime? i mean guys like calvin and suh were incredible super elite prospects but too say ill never ever see an athlete of that caliber again would be a bold statement.

id say luck is the best QB prospect ive seen in my lifetime so far, once in a lifetime i doubt though

dannyz
02-15-2012, 06:21 PM
I like Mayock because he knows what he's talking about. I think everyone else on NFLN is just caught in the RGIII Hype because he is the new thing and that everyone has been talking about Andrew Luck for Two years now. I was watching NFLN yesterday and they made a point about always calling RGIII the Running QB because Andrew Luck has the ability to run and I think that gets overlooked because they is not a runner like Robert Griffin or Mike Vick but he has the ability to Run like Aaron Rodgers where at most he might run for 15 Yards.

PossibleCabbage
02-15-2012, 07:04 PM
The thing about Luck is "coming out, he's the best prospect anybody has seen in some time (at least since Carson Palmer)." Nobody's saying he's going to be this all time fantastic player (I mean, Carson Palmer didn't turn out that way), since a QB's success in the NFL hinges on a lot more than how good a prospect they were coming out, and there's certainly some luck involved (no pun intended.)

So while I'll say that I like Luck as a prospect better than a good number of other quarterbacks, I don't honestly expect him to be as good of an NFL player as someone like Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was a weaker prospect coming out, but he fell into an ideal situation that was probably previously unmatched and it's hard to see it recurring for anybody else (definitely not Luck, at least.)

bitonti
02-16-2012, 09:10 AM
if Luck went to Boston College instead of Stanford, Mayock would say he's the best QB prospect ever.

DeathbyStat
02-16-2012, 09:16 AM
If I have to choose between Luck and RG3 Im taking Luck every time.

But I won't be shocked if Griffin is proven to be the better QB in 5 years.

Luck is the best prospect since Manning, not the best prospect since Elway

Shane P. Hallam
02-16-2012, 09:17 AM
I think people are saying he is more "once a decade" which he is.

dolphinfan2k5
02-16-2012, 10:02 AM
Mike Vick is probably the only once in a lifetime guy that immediately comes to mind.

the_dark_knight
02-16-2012, 10:45 AM
I think people are saying he is more "once a decade" which he is.

I guess I just don't see that either. I mean look at some of the QBs from the last decade, he doesn't show anything to me that indicates he will be more special than someone like Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, or even Mark Sanchez. I just don't see anything in Luck that makes me go *wow* Sort of how I was with Matt Ryan though, who has turned into a very good QB. Not saying he's elite or anything cause he's not yet, but his tools have improved and fit the pro game better than they did at BC.

Maybe Luck will do the same thing, I just think when someone peaks so highly it makes me skeptical, so I'm leery of him. RGIII to me seems like he's not reached his potential yet, and maybe I just can't see it in Luck and I'm looking for it in RGIII.

Brothgar
02-16-2012, 10:48 AM
Here's the question. Luck or Stafford as a prospect?

SolidGold
02-16-2012, 11:04 AM
Like others have said I do not think anyone ever said Luck was a once in a life-time prospect but that many regard him as the best prospect since Peyton Manning. I would argue that he may be the best prospect since Carson Palmer - I remember Palmer was getting a lot of hype as the perfect prototype QB leading up to the 2003 draft as well.

I would take Luck over Griffin any day of the week. People do not really appreciate the mental aspect of the game Luck has mastered - he has been coached up in a pro-style offense for his whole college career. If Luck plays in the Big 12 running the same wide open spread offense with the assistance of probably first round talent at WR (Kendall Wright) he would of put up better numbers than Griffin.

People get caught up in 40 times so they label Griffin more exciting because he will run a fast 40. For whatever reason all the "expert draftniks" seem to think Griffin will have a Newton like influence on the team that drafts him when the fact of the matter is when you peel back the layers a little Newton and Griffin are different types of players physically - its lazy journalism/analysis.

Prowler
02-16-2012, 11:07 AM
Stafford's potential was way higher, but he was touted as more of a project. Stafford was sporadic with his short throws and really only started to become good his Junior year. He had flashed his enormous potential, but he was still only a 55% passer until then.

Luck has back to back years of going over 70% and did it while showing that he could adapt to a 3 TE offense devoid of real deep threats. I would say that Stafford was the kid born with all the gifts in the world, while Luck is the prodigy that completely understands how to be successful.

I think its a matter of taste between the two. Top talent vs top skill. It just depends on how much people consider skill to be talent when evaluating them. If I'm Oakland or Jacksonville, then I'm taking Luck because I can't develop talent, but if I'm New England then I'm taking Stafford.

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2012, 11:29 AM
I put Luck over most prototype QB prospects over the lat ten + years because of his athleticism.
His straight line speed is going to be one of the best for the position in the NFL, after Vick/Newton/Locker/Gabbert/Rodgers/Alex Smith.

In goal line offense, Luck is a guy who can roll out wide and take it into the endzone by himself, easily.

BuddyCHRIST
02-16-2012, 03:22 PM
He reminds me of a more athletic Eli Manning (when Eli Manning is playing well ie this year). Great pre snap, can make every throw (any Luck arm strength concerns are way over blown), very accurate and very cool, calm and collected. The way Luck interviews reminds me alot of Eli.

brat316
02-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Why are people saying best prospect since Manning? Lets remember in terms of prospect and not the NFL player. Ryan Leaf was the better prospect, had errr thing, was tough and had the rocket arm.
Manning didn't have the arm, other stuff
In Manning’s case, he may be a solid and productive NFL QB, but he may not have Hall of Fame type skills, but it certainly won’t be for lack of effort..
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/4.html

But they are very close replace Manning with Luck
Manning is probably the most prepared QB to enter the NFL draft in several years.. He has had a storybook college career, and has been in a top level program with excellent coaching, and he has maturity and great intangibles to go along with his natural skills.. He should be able to pick up the mental aspects of the game early on the NFL level, and should play very quickly. He has great overall field vision. He is a fierce competitor, and all of his mechanics are very solid. He has good arm strength, but not necessarily a “gun” that you might expect from a QB at the top of the draft..

Iamcanadian
02-16-2012, 03:48 PM
First, it is a quote by somebody besides Mayock himself. I'll wait till I hear Mayock speak on Luck himself before I jump the gun.

I still think Mayock will call him once in a decade prospect when he goes over Luck as a prospect. He's one of the best I have seen in my 55 odd years of following the draft.

Of course we are talking about Luck as a prospect, that carries no guarantee that he will be better than Peyton, Montana or Elway, just that he has that type of ceiling, which means nothing till you actually produce as a pro.

Ceiling doesn't mean you will be better than those you are compared to, just gives a prospect a mark he is capable of.

brat316
02-16-2012, 03:49 PM
I put Luck over most prototype QB prospects over the lat ten + years because of his athleticism.
His straight line speed is going to be one of the best for the position in the NFL, after Vick/Newton/Locker/Gabbert/Rodgers/Alex Smith.

In goal line offense, Luck is a guy who can roll out wide and take it into the endzone by himself, easily.

Young, Steve not vince fast?

dannyz
02-16-2012, 04:24 PM
Why are people saying best prospect since Manning? Lets remember in terms of prospect and not the NFL player. Ryan Leaf was the better prospect, had errr thing, was tough and had the rocket arm.
Manning didn't have the arm, other stuff

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/4.html

But they are very close replace Manning with Luck

I think it is crazy, I has really young and not following the Draft back then but reading that report about Peyton Manning it's like a report about Andrew Luck (Great Mental part/Mature, not a Cannon for an Arm) and the Situation this year is kinda like 1998 in that you have a Guy that has been really good for a few years and is considered the #1 Overall Pick for a year or two when a guy comes out of nowhere and people really like that guy. With Peyton/Andrew you already know what you are getting and that is a Great Player but the Upside is not as great as the other QB that has a better arm and a good player. I am not saying Andrew Luck will be Peyton Manning or Robert Griffin will be Ryan Leaf but the situation is kinda similar.

DraftSavant
02-16-2012, 04:32 PM
First, it is a quote by somebody besides Mayock himself. I'll wait till I hear Mayock speak on Luck himself before I jump the gun.

I still think Mayock will call him once in a decade prospect when he goes over Luck as a prospect. He's one of the best I have seen in my 55 odd years of following the draft.

Of course we are talking about Luck as a prospect, that carries no guarantee that he will be better than Peyton, Montana or Elway, just that he has that type of ceiling, which means nothing till you actually produce as a pro.

Ceiling doesn't mean you will be better than those you are compared to, just gives a prospect a mark he is capable of.

Mayock said it in a conference media call, bro....

Babylon
02-16-2012, 05:01 PM
Here's the question. Luck or Stafford as a prospect?

I like Stafford better from a physical standpoint but i think Luck has an advantage in the intangible category.

JHL6719
02-16-2012, 05:43 PM
First, it is a quote by somebody besides Mayock himself. I'll wait till I hear Mayock speak on Luck himself before I jump the gun.

I still think Mayock will call him once in a decade prospect when he goes over Luck as a prospect. He's one of the best I have seen in my 55 odd years of following the draft.Of course we are talking about Luck as a prospect, that carries no guarantee that he will be better than Peyton, Montana or Elway, just that he has that type of ceiling, which means nothing till you actually produce as a pro.

Ceiling doesn't mean you will be better than those you are compared to, just gives a prospect a mark he is capable of.


Did you really agree with Fate Echols going in the top 10 in '62 while Billy Neighbors fell all the way to #43 overall?

Also, what was your scouting report like on Roman Gabriel?

Giantsfan1080
02-16-2012, 05:45 PM
I've been saying it for 2 years but Luck=Eli but with more mobility. They are very very similar.

indyfan1985
02-16-2012, 06:11 PM
I like Stafford better from a physical standpoint but i think Luck has an advantage in the intangible category.

Luck has the advantage in the physical standpoint as well other than arm strength. Luck is more athletic, is bigger, more accurate, better thrower on the run.

Miaoww
02-16-2012, 06:12 PM
i wonder who he considers once in a lifetime? i mean guys like calvin and suh were incredible super elite prospects but too say ill never ever see an athlete of that caliber again would be a bold statement.

id say luck is the best QB prospect ive seen in my lifetime so far, once in a lifetime i doubt though

Julius Peppers.

DraftSavant
02-16-2012, 06:20 PM
Julius Peppers.

Until Mario Williams came along a few years later and beat him at just about every combine event, while weighing in heavier.

initial_flo
02-16-2012, 06:30 PM
Its probably the case where Luck has been around for so long in the stream of conciousness where people will start to put him down a bit.

Luck is a beast, has awesome accuracy, and is a perfectionist. And totally an underrated athlete. All the talent and quick decision making anyone can ask for.

Im hoping the Colts talk themselves out of Luck and the Browns have a crack at him in April. Wishful thinking but whatever...

TACKLE
02-16-2012, 06:35 PM
Until Mario Williams came along a few years later and beat him at just about every combine event, while weighing in heavier.

I kinda doubt most of his times were better but there's no way to know because Peppers' times aren't listed. Though the urban legend is that he ran a 4.48 at his pro day.

VikesWookie
02-16-2012, 07:44 PM
Would Bronko Nagurski be considered a "once in a lifetime" prospect?

SenorGato
02-16-2012, 09:00 PM
Here's the question. Luck or Stafford as a prospect?

I'm the guy who would say Stafford. Stafford was an awesome prospect....

Luck is going to be really good. The guy can do whatever he wants to do in life...iw studying mechanical engineering?

Brothgar
02-16-2012, 09:20 PM
I like Stafford better from a physical standpoint but i think Luck has an advantage in the intangible category.

-ahVTorF2OI

I like Stafford's intangibles.

JHL6719
02-16-2012, 09:31 PM
I never thought Stafford was that great of a prospect. I could never get his performance against Alabama's defense as a junior out of my head.

UGA was ranked #3 and had a night game at home against the #8 ranked Crimson Tide in Sanford Stadium (the "Blackout Game")

At halftime, Alabama had a 31-0 lead after Stafford had went 8/14, for 58 yards, no TD's, 1 INT, and an intentional grounding penalty in the first half.

Bama ended up letting Stafford pad his stats in the 2nd half by playing soft coverage due to Saban having called off the dogs at that point.

Stafford had never even completed better than 55% of his passes until A.J. Green came along.

I've never seen anything like that out of Andrew Luck. Then again, Luck has never faced a Nick Saban defense, or anything close to it.

the_dark_knight
02-17-2012, 07:24 AM
I think the stat about never completing 55% of his passes before AJ Green, it's the same thing that's happening for him in the NFL. He's got CJ, and that's pretty much all he needs. I think Stafford is pretty much garbage as a QB, he buckles really badly under pressure, chuck and duck. Several of those touchdowns late in the game he threw to Calvin were just floaters into triple coverage that Calvin won. So Luck vs Stafford I'd pick Luck pretty easily, and I'm not overly impressed with him either.

SolidGold
02-17-2012, 07:24 AM
I never thought Stafford was that great of a prospect. I could never get his performance against Alabama's defense as a junior out of my head.

UGA was ranked #3 and had a night game at home against the #8 ranked Crimson Tide in Sanford Stadium (the "Blackout Game")

At halftime, Alabama had a 31-0 lead after Stafford had went 8/14, for 58 yards, no TD's, 1 INT, and an intentional grounding penalty in the first half.

Bama ended up letting Stafford pad his stats in the 2nd half by playing soft coverage due to Saban having called off the dogs at that point.

Stafford had never even completed better than 55% of his passes until A.J. Green came along.

I've never seen anything like that out of Andrew Luck. Then again, Luck has never faced a Nick Saban defense, or anything close to it.

Yea...its a shame the BCS robbed us of a chance to see Luck go up against Alabama or LSU.He did however perform much better than Griffin against their common opponent Ok. St.

Complex
02-25-2012, 11:29 PM
One NFL scout compares Stanford QB Andrew Luck to Matt Ryan as a "really good game manager" who's been overhyped by the media.
"He is a Matt Ryan-type player," said the scout. "He can't carry the team on his shoulders, but he's a really good manager. His arm isn't even close to Aaron Rodgers' and he doesn't have Aaron's feet. He's smart, competitive, tough. His teammates love him. The media has put so much pressure on this kid. It's unbelievable. They've basically anointed him Jesus Christ."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draft-outlook-es4aae2-140451293.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Prowler
02-26-2012, 07:06 AM
I think the stat about never completing 55% of his passes before AJ Green, it's the same thing that's happening for him in the NFL. He's got CJ, and that's pretty much all he needs. I think Stafford is pretty much garbage as a QB, he buckles really badly under pressure, chuck and duck. Several of those touchdowns late in the game he threw to Calvin were just floaters into triple coverage that Calvin won. So Luck vs Stafford I'd pick Luck pretty easily, and I'm not overly impressed with him either.

Matt Stafford 5,038 yards 41 TDs 16 INTs

Calvin Johnson 1,681 yards 16 TDS

You're right, Stafford is such garbage. Its totally all CJ helping him. You're ******* kidding me right now, right?

Ozzy
02-26-2012, 07:55 AM
I would agree with Mayock, before the season Luck was once in a life time prospect considering how he played his freshman and sophomore years. But now, this year, he was more average and did not play at his best in the biggest games. Still hard to argue you would not take him over the past few #1 pick QBs....


Since 1998 here are the quarterbacks I would not take over Luck.
2010 Sam Bradford
2009 Matthew Stafford
2007 JaMarcus Russell
2005 Alex Smith
2003 Carson Palmer
2002 David Carr
1999 Tim Couch



These three I would take over Luck when they came out, sure now one would not take Vick seeing how he has done, but coming out of VT hard to not take him back then.

2004 Eli Manning
2001 Michael Vick
1998 Peyton Manning

Leon Sandcastle
02-26-2012, 09:53 AM
Never thought I'd say this, this time last year but Cam Newton is going to be the better player.

papageorgio
02-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Never thought I'd say this, this time last year but Cam Newton is going to be the better player.

Newton will be way better he can actually throw passes farther than 20 yards unlike Luck.

Luck has the captain check down problem that many young qb's have. Hes similar to trent edwards in the way he plays.

Thats not a knock either because Trent was a middle of the pack QB before his concussions.

Luck will have a similar career in being a middle of the pack QB who can manage a game. Thats not worth a 1st overall selection.

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 11:49 AM
Newton will be way better he can actually throw passes farther than 20 yards unlike Luck.

Luck has the captain check down problem that many young qb's have. Hes similar to trent edwards in the way he plays.

Thats not a knock either because Trent was a middle of the pack QB before his concussions.

Luck will have a similar career in being a middle of the pack QB who can manage a game. Thats not worth a 1st overall selection.

Dude don't underrate Luck's arm because he was trying to 'aim' most of his passes last year. You rarely saw Luck throw the ball last season at his max velocity. He played like a touch passer, but he's much more than that as a quarterback.

His arm is strong, just below elite.

It's hard to imagine you don't see Luck's potential to be a top 10 QB in the pros.

You put him in a real pro vertical system that takes advantage of his entire skill set and he's going to dominate.
Stanford ran a conservative ball control offense out of necessity, not because Luck was a mediocre QB.

Manning's career is on the downside and it's happened to every great QB, eventually the franchise has to make plans for the future.

Teams rarely get a chance to draft a legit franchise QB, Indy knows this more than most. They got a decade and a half out of Peyton AND paid him $26 mil last season to not play a down of football.

Only a Peyton relative would keep Manning over the chance to draft Luck.

Prowler
02-26-2012, 12:26 PM
Luck ran a 3 TE offense and didn't have Doug Baldwin anymore. No kidding he checked down. Who the heck else was there to throw to?

niel89
02-26-2012, 01:11 PM
Luck has no problem with a 20 yard throw. His arm strength really isn't an issue at all. Luck does check down the ball... but normally after going through his first 3 reads.

Babylon
02-26-2012, 01:31 PM
Luck ran a 3 TE offense and didn't have Doug Baldwin anymore. No kidding he checked down. Who the heck else was there to throw to?

Owusu was pretty much shot for most of the second half also. Luck's arm strength isnt an issue.

BengalsPwn
02-26-2012, 06:37 PM
Luck is so incredible b/c of his true intangibles. Has everyone forgotten about the time Luck destroyed Shareece Wright on the running backs fumble? Or the great 1 handed catch he made. He never dogs any play whether its his mistake or his teammates. I had to watch Andy Dalton in his first playoff game throw JJ Watt a pick six and him just stand there and watch him run past him instead of trying to hit him. Its once in a lifetime you find a guy who does all these things plus can throw accurate darts all over the field and run over db's with his feet.

Clarkw267
02-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Owusu was pretty much shot for most of the second half also. Luck's arm strength isnt an issue.

For sure. They had 1 legit threat on the outside, and it was true freshman Ty Montgomery.

Give the guy weapons, and there won't be any arm strength questions.

49erNation85
02-26-2012, 06:48 PM
The Colts better go after some wide outs this FA or draft or Luck won't have any one again to throw too ..

papageorgio
02-26-2012, 08:10 PM
The Colts better go after some wide outs this FA or draft or Luck won't have any one again to throw too ..

Are you people ******* kidding me or what. This guy had a stud offensive line. Great tight ends and running backs. His receiver were not bad either. Excuses after excuses for this guy checking down every other play.

This guy is nowhere near RG3 or Newton as a prospect. I cant wait to see him fail to live up to his expectations.

Manning is the Goat and only won one super bowl because of the terrible ownership and management of the colts.

Luck will fail because he doesnt have the arm strength and is scared to make the difficult throws.

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 08:16 PM
Peyton wasn't Peyton in the playoffs against elite teams.

Luck had nearly the same stats passing as RGIII last season. What kind of numbers was he expected to put up to justify his draft position??

6000 yards and 50 TDs??

Luck is a guy who's going to generate offense and points IMO no matter who he's playing with.
To say he plays conservative assumes he wrote the Cardinal playbook.

papageorgio
02-26-2012, 08:18 PM
Peyton wasn't Peyton in the playoffs against elite teams.

Luck had nearly the same stats passing as RGIII last season. What kind of numbers was he expected to put up to justify his draft position??

6000 yards and 50 TDs??

Luck is a guy who's going to generate offense and points IMO no matter who he's playing with.
To say he plays conservative assumes he wrote the Cardinal playbook.

His stats are meaningless he plays in a scrub conference. If you actually watch him play you can see how much he checks down and gets bailed out by his teammates. You could plug in any QB and have decent stats in that system.

dannyz
02-26-2012, 08:36 PM
His stats are meaningless he plays in a scrub conference. If you actually watch him play you can see how much he checks down and gets bailed out by his teammates. You could plug in any QB and have decent stats in that system.

I am sick of listening to you. If you knew anything about Andrew Luck it's that they run a PRO STYLE Offense and don't need to pass the ball to Win Games, What WR's did Andrew Luck have? Yeah the TE's are good because they were the only ones that were any threat to catch the ball. RGIII was in the Shotgun 95% of the time had a 1ST Round WR to throw to plus his Offensive Line was not that bad either and the Big 12 Defenses Suck big time. We get it you Love RGIII and don't like Andrew Luck but don't come on this Site and Troll people on here.

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 08:39 PM
You're misrepresenting his game. Luck's game isn't based on checkdowns. He wasn't leaving TDs out there on the field because he was afraid to throw the football.

Luck was being bailed out by his teammates?? That's crazy.

papageorgio
02-26-2012, 08:40 PM
I am sick of listening to you. If you knew anything about Andrew Luck it's that they run a PRO STYLE Offense and don't need to pass the ball to Win Games, What WR's did Andrew Luck have? Yeah the TE's are good because they were the only ones that were any threat to catch the ball. RGIII was in the Shotgun 95% of the time had a 1ST Round WR to throw to plus his Offensive Line was not that bad either and the Big 12 Defenses Suck big time. We get it you Love RGIII and don't like Andrew Luck but don't come on this Site and Troll people on here.

buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.

bucfan12
02-26-2012, 08:45 PM
When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.

wogitalia
02-26-2012, 09:21 PM
I said it the first time I saw him and it's held true everytime since, Luck moves better in the pocket than anyone that I've seen at a collegiate level. That to me is his single best trait and also the reason I think he is the best QB prospect I've seen.

Something that all the top QBs in the league have is elite footwork, Mannings, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Roethlisberger all move within the pocket, Luck has that Rodgers like ability to also move outside the pocket but it is within the pocket that he is at his best and why I think he is special.

niel89
02-26-2012, 11:17 PM
When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.

I will concede that Griffin has better arm stregth, a deep ball, athleticism, and he can make more when a play breaks down with his feet, but those are the only things that I think Griffin has over Luck. Luck is better in probably every other way and at a minimum equal to Griffin. Luck's pocket presence is simply elite. His ability to go through 4 reads and make it look standard is something a lot of QB never get down.

It's also easy to just say that the NFL is now incorporating the spread offense but traditional pro style offensive elements are still the norm and Luck has 3 years advantage working in offense that is highly comparable to pro teams. Luck's ability presnap is being down played way too much. I'm not saying that he was his own OC out there, but his ability to read a defense & change the play give him an enormous advantage. Griffen is a smart kid and will get there, but Luck is there.

Prowler
02-26-2012, 11:42 PM
buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.

You're right, the guy who takes the vast majority of his snaps under center ran a very simple offense. They guy who could call run or bootleg audibles and used hand signals ran the simple offense.

Also, even though most of the time I've seen Coby Fleener in traditional TE spot on the line or in the backfield, he still pushes the seam like Gronk or Hernandez. You do realize how beneficial it is for a QB to recognize his good matchups and manipulate his team into the best situations to take advantage of it right? Checking down and "getting bailed out by ones teammates" is what football is. You get the ball in the hands of your playmakers. Hell, Luck's YPA is 8.7 which is comparable to Tom Brady's 8.6 YPA this year. Tom's similar play of checking down and getting bailed out by his tight ends led him to 5,235 yards and the Super Bowl this year. Luck had 200 less attempts, but statistically would have been right next to him.

Your arguments are terrible and indefensible.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 12:29 AM
I'm too lazy to go through a thread right now, so I apologize if it's been mentioned.

a) Mayock was criticizing, for lack of a better way to say it, the terminology, not the talent. Did you listen to his interview on PFT with Florio? Said Luck was as good a bet as there is to become an all-pro in this draft. He's simply saying that he doesn't like calling someone elite. Mayock also notes

b) Peyton Manning, as a prospect, had questions. More than anything, listening to the interviews and write-ups, it sounds like Mayock is criticizing the comparison of Luck to Manning/Brady right NOW, whereas many of the people, including myself, are comparing Luck to them as

c) Prospects. There's nothing definite about prospects. Luck's been the only QB that I've actually used the "ready" label, but even in saying that, I know I'm somewhat betraying my own principles on QB prospects (that I don't buy the term "pro-ready" as it is used by draftniks on QB prospects. The argument is that Luck, as a prospect, is the best thing since Manning (and I think there's an argument that he's better than Manning as a prospect ... the amount of responsibilities he had at the line was simply staggering for a QB prospect.

_____

Luck is not the QB with the highest ceiling in this draft, as he lacks elite arm strength. Griffin III has a higher ceiling. I do think Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning (I won't dare compare to Elway as I've never seen enough of Elway in college to make a statement), but that is a combination of upside and "readiness". The arm strength is still good enough, and as today showed, he's a good overall athlete (which was evident on film). The accuracy/mechanics are there, and by all accounts, the intangibles are there. The QB specific abilities, the ability to see different planes of the field and attack hi/low, 1-5, the ability to make line adjustments, and so forth - his readiness in those aspects is what separates him from other QB prospects.

I love RG3. I never thought I would get to the point of saying that, but I do. In any other year, he's a clearcut number 1 overall, no 2nd question. I still firmly believe that, in general, you take Luck over RG3, but if you are superbly confident in your coaching staff, and in RG3, I can understand taking upside.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 12:31 AM
buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.

What? Luck ran a superbly complex offense, where he was making pro calls at the line on adjustments.

Now, RG3 is getting a bit unfairly bashed in one regard - he ran a spread, but it was a bit more complex than most spread offenses.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 12:33 AM
When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.

One of my bigger concerns with Griffin III is that his mechanics seem to break down at times. Luck has better intermediate accuracy, IMO, and is more adept at hitting the tough seam passes or the hard 15-yard outs. I think Luck has far better pocket presence (the ability to scramble doesn't correlate directly with pocket presence - there's some aspect there, but Luck moves his feet very, very well), and I think, due to the complexity of the offense and the multiple read looks Luck went through, that you have to give him the vision nod as well.

descendency
02-27-2012, 06:27 AM
My concern with Luck is that he's Matt Ryan and not Peyton Manning. Obviously, that still warrants a #1 overall pick, but you do have to wonder if players like Matt Kalil or Robert Griffin become all time greats at their positions.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2012, 06:36 AM
I'm too lazy to go through a thread right now, so I apologize if it's been mentioned.

a) Mayock was criticizing, for lack of a better way to say it, the terminology, not the talent. Did you listen to his interview on PFT with Florio? Said Luck was as good a bet as there is to become an all-pro in this draft. He's simply saying that he doesn't like calling someone elite. Mayock also notes

b) Peyton Manning, as a prospect, had questions. More than anything, listening to the interviews and write-ups, it sounds like Mayock is criticizing the comparison of Luck to Manning/Brady right NOW, whereas many of the people, including myself, are comparing Luck to them as

c) Prospects. There's nothing definite about prospects. Luck's been the only QB that I've actually used the "ready" label, but even in saying that, I know I'm somewhat betraying my own principles on QB prospects (that I don't buy the term "pro-ready" as it is used by draftniks on QB prospects. The argument is that Luck, as a prospect, is the best thing since Manning (and I think there's an argument that he's better than Manning as a prospect ... the amount of responsibilities he had at the line was simply staggering for a QB prospect.

_____

Luck is not the QB with the highest ceiling in this draft, as he lacks elite arm strength. Griffin III has a higher ceiling. I do think Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning (I won't dare compare to Elway as I've never seen enough of Elway in college to make a statement), but that is a combination of upside and "readiness". The arm strength is still good enough, and as today showed, he's a good overall athlete (which was evident on film). The accuracy/mechanics are there, and by all accounts, the intangibles are there. The QB specific abilities, the ability to see different planes of the field and attack hi/low, 1-5, the ability to make line adjustments, and so forth - his readiness in those aspects is what separates him from other QB prospects.

I love RG3. I never thought I would get to the point of saying that, but I do. In any other year, he's a clearcut number 1 overall, no 2nd question. I still firmly believe that, in general, you take Luck over RG3, but if you are superbly confident in your coaching staff, and in RG3, I can understand taking upside.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/03a/8aa/0f5/resized/success-kid-meme-generator-toonster-posts-again-knowledge-increases-262944.jpg

bitonti
02-28-2012, 09:14 AM
the fact that he had to upgrade from once in a generation to once in a lifetime to find a term he didn't agree with, says it all. Luck is once in a generation. He's not once in a lifetime. That's probably a fair comment. He's not the best QB to come along for 75 years.