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View Full Version : Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis


mightytitan9
02-23-2012, 12:09 AM
I'm sure there's already a thread about him somewhere, however, I'm asking a specific question so I'm starting my own thread.

My question is, how does he compare to Haloti Ngata, Linval Joseph and Kenrick Ellis?

Ngata was 6041 338 and did 38 reps at the combine, he was dominant at Oregon and I believe the only reason he went where he did was because he had knee concerns (can someone verify that, I found nothing on it but thought I remembered hearing it when he came out but that's been a while ago).

Linval Joseph was very similar to Ngata physically. Standing 6044 328 pounds and knocking out 39 reps. I really like him coming out. He ended up going middle of the second.

Kenrick Ellis was 6047 346 and did 26 reps, he was from a smaller school (hampton) where he got by largely because of his size. He ended up going in the late 3rd round.

Poe moves extremely well for his size, but I don't see a dominant performance from him on his film (which is relatively hard to find). I think he compares most to Joseph, Am I the only one that things top 15 is too high for this guy? I know he's kind of shot up on these boards slowly, but overall as a prospect I still think the guys a late 1st early-mid 2nd rounder. What are your thoughts?

descendency
02-23-2012, 12:25 AM
Ellis went lower than he probably should have because of legal troubles.

He's a top 16 lock because you can't get 350 pound men that can do what Poe can. Some NT needy team will over draft him.

Brothgar
02-23-2012, 12:25 AM
I think he compares favorably to Vince Wilfork more than those in this thread.

mightytitan9
02-23-2012, 12:29 AM
Ellis went lower than he probably should have because of legal troubles.

He's a top 16 lock because you can't get 350 pound men that can do what Poe can. Some NT needy team will over draft him.

Care to make a friendly wager he goes top 16?

Complex
02-23-2012, 12:38 AM
Ellis had legal trouble that is why fell. I think he broke some dudes jaw and still hasn't gone to trial for it.

edit: He is link to his legal troubles. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2012/02/jets-dl-kenrick-ellis-trial-postponed-until-may

TACKLE
02-23-2012, 12:49 AM
Poe moves extremely well for his size, but I don't see a dominant performance from him on his film (which is relatively hard to find). I think he compares most to Joseph, Am I the only one that things top 15 is too high for this guy? I know he's kind of shot up on these boards slowly, but overall as a prospect I still think the guys a late 1st early-mid 2nd rounder. What are your thoughts?

Does Poe's dominance on the field make him a top 15 pick? No, maybe not. However, his athleticism, his leverage, his strength and his most of all his movement skills for a man his size are rivaled by probably only one athlete in football on the planet (Ngata). He's a little different type player who although isn't as strong vs. the run, he's a more natural and more fluid pass rusher than Ngata was. Because he's big and most haven't gotten to watch him play, people are naturally going to label him as 'raw' but I would actually describe him as one of the more technically sound DT's in this draft. It's not like he's limited to just 34 NT either. I truly believe that with the exception to 4-3 DE, there isn't a single position in a single system that he couldn't succeed at on the D-Line.

Teams don't draft stats, they draft guys with projectable games and skillsets. Poe is a 'once in every couple years' type athlete and a piece of clay that can be molded into the centerpiece of a defense. Guys like that, well, they tend to go early.

descendency
02-23-2012, 01:11 AM
Care to make a friendly wager he goes top 16?

Sure. He's going to blow up the Combine bench and weigh ins. I wouldn't bet on it, but I have a sneaky suspicion that KC will be very very interested at pick 11.

My only worry is that teams view him as out of shape like they did with Terrence Cody, but almost every source I can find on him seems to say he's not a 3 down player, but could be.

niel89
02-23-2012, 01:35 AM
Ngata did have an acl tear in his sophomore season. Another knock on Ngata was he supposedly took plays off and didn't give enough effort to go along with his talent all the time.

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2012, 01:48 AM
Sure. He's going to blow up the Combine bench and weigh ins. I wouldn't bet on it, but I have a sneaky suspicion that KC will be very very interested at pick 11.

Hasn't KC spent enough high first round picks on 5-techs in the last five years?

RaiderNation
02-23-2012, 01:49 AM
Poe and Brockers will battle to go in the top 10, possibly to Carolina or Miami. Brockers has the slight lead right now, but I could see Poe being a top 10 pick as well. You don't find big guys that can move like him, and Poe will be able to be a factor in a 3-4 front at both NT and DE similarly to what Ngata, Wilfolk and Raji do.

SenorGato
02-23-2012, 01:52 AM
Ellis had legal trouble that is why fell. I think he broke some dudes jaw and still hasn't gone to trial for it.

edit: He is link to his legal troubles. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2012/02/jets-dl-kenrick-ellis-trial-postponed-until-may

Ellis is the man.

Poe...meh.

vidae
02-23-2012, 02:01 AM
Hasn't KC spent enough high first round picks on 5-techs in the last five years?

Poe would slide into NT from day one and start there, and NT is a maaajor need for this club. With most NTs you don't start em right away but with RAC and Anthony Pleasant coaching him up I think you see him there from day 1.

I actually think there is an outside shot we move back and still grab him, but who knows.

descendency
02-23-2012, 02:22 AM
I actually think there is an outside shot we move back and still grab him, but who knows.

I was thinking this too, but with the Jets at 16, I'd be concerned about Rex Ryan targetting him too.

They are letting Pouha walk.

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2012, 02:49 AM
Poe would slide into NT from day one and start there, and NT is a maaajor need for this club. With most NTs you don't start em right away but with RAC and Anthony Pleasant coaching him up I think you see him there from day 1.

I don't like Poe as an NT in an odd-front at all, to me his height makes him an LDE only, or at least "long term". He's just not going to be able to hold up in the middle, as much leverage as he's giving up.

Ideally, I want my 3-4 noses to be shorter than 6'3". I like shorter guys like Wilfork, Hampton, and Raji a lot better in the 0-tech spot than tall guys. As a 4-3 nose, Poe would be great but that's not what Crennel is going to play.

AntoinCD
02-23-2012, 05:05 AM
I'm not a fan of Poe but can see why he will get drafted highly. His play to me is just meh though. He's not actually a great run defender despite his size and s too easily blocked. I'm not sure if its a technique thing or just not playing with enough fire but it is worrying for a team thinking of drafting him. If he reaches this potential though he will be scary. I like him in a Pat Williams type role in a 43. I don't think he can anchor well enough to ply the nose in a 34

TonyGfortheTD
02-23-2012, 05:27 AM
Poe would slide into NT from day one and start there, and NT is a maaajor need for this club. With most NTs you don't start em right away but with RAC and Anthony Pleasant coaching him up I think you see him there from day 1.

I actually think there is an outside shot we move back and still grab him, but who knows.
I think you're trying way too hard to make this look sensible. Even with amazing coaching, it's still a stretch to expect him to have any impact at all as a rookie.

duesouth
02-23-2012, 07:16 AM
Ngata did have an acl tear in his sophomore season. Another knock on Ngata was he supposedly took plays off and didn't give enough effort to go along with his talent all the time.

I seem to recall scouts picking out the USC game and him being dominated by a late round OG. I also recall the reason for his up and down play in his junior year was that his Mother was terminally ill with cancer.

KaneMarko
02-23-2012, 08:04 AM
Poe would slide into NT from day one and start there, and NT is a maaajor need for this club. With most NTs you don't start em right away but with RAC and Anthony Pleasant coaching him up I think you see him there from day 1.

I actually think there is an outside shot we move back and still grab him, but who knows.

I'm warming up to the idea of the Chiefs taking him at 11 or 12. I've only seen one game with him in. And that was Memphis vs. Tulsa. Kid certainly passes the eye test. I'm still hoping the Chiefs fill the NT spot with maybe Soliai before the draft. But, as has been mentioned, NT is a HUGE need for this team. If it's not the biggest need, it's certainly a close second behind RT. And if the Chiefs can't fill the NT spot via FA, they may have to consider Poe at 11 or 12. Even though I feel 11 or 12 is a bit high for him. But, sometimes, if you have a huge need at a spot, and the prospect you want won't be there in the next round but he's still provides relative value to your pick, you have to consider pulling the trigger. Even if it is a little high.

duesouth
02-23-2012, 08:45 AM
I'm warming up to the idea of the Chiefs taking him at 11 or 12. I've only seen one game with him in. And that was Memphis vs. Tulsa. Kid certainly passes the eye test. I'm still hoping the Chiefs fill the NT spot with maybe Soliai before the draft. But, as has been mentioned, NT is a HUGE need for this team. If it's not the biggest need, it's certainly a close second behind RT. And if the Chiefs can't fill the NT spot via FA, they may have to consider Poe at 11 or 12. Even though I feel 11 or 12 is a bit high for him. But, sometimes, if you have a huge need at a spot, and the prospect you want won't be there in the next round but he's still provides relative value to your pick, you have to consider pulling the trigger. Even if it is a little high.

The Chiefs should just develop the Powe kid they drafted out of Ole Miss last year. Poe will test out better at the Combine than Powe did - but Powe can play and I would expect him to push for a starting job this coming season.

KaneMarko
02-23-2012, 11:38 AM
The Chiefs should just develop the Powe kid they drafted out of Ole Miss last year. Poe will test out better at the Combine than Powe did - but Powe can play and I would expect him to push for a starting job this coming season.

The Chiefs have been without a true NT since Pioli got here. And Powe only suited up for one game last year and couldn't wrestle PT from an ancient, on the verge or retiring, Kelly Gregg. Chiefs spent almost the entire year with Ammon Gordon as the backup NT.

I don't know if the Chiefs can afford to place all their chip on Powe and his development. I like the kid. But the Chiefs need a NT now. And waiting on Powe carries a huge risk IMO. I just don't have a lot of high hopes on Powe at this point.

killxswitch
02-23-2012, 11:54 AM
The Chiefs have been without a true NT since Pioli got here. And Powe only suited up for one game last year and couldn't wrestle PT from an ancient, on the verge or retiring, Kelly Gregg. Chiefs spent almost the entire year with Ammon Gordon as the backup NT.

I don't know if the Chiefs can afford to place all their chip on Powe and his development. I like the kid. But the Chiefs need a NT now. And waiting on Powe carries a huge risk IMO. I just don't have a lot of high hopes on Powe at this point.

DTs take longer than most other positions to develop. I wouldn't give up on Powe yet.

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 10:34 AM
Well holy hell this guy's stock just went through the roof and into outer space.

44 bench reps.
4.87 40.
6'4, 350 lbs.

Top 10 pick?

K Train
02-27-2012, 10:35 AM
poe makes me wet

vidae
02-27-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah Poe won't make it to the Chiefs now so it's all a moot point.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2012, 10:48 AM
Poe next to Linval would be great. And then stick our DEs around, and we are good to go. In 3rd and long situations we can add another DE, or see what Marvin Austin can do. Poe is a very interesting prospect! I think he would be a damn good fit for our DL.

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 10:49 AM
Poe next to Linval would be great. And then stick our DEs around, and we are good to go. In 3rd and long situations we can add another DE, or see what Marvin Austin can do. Poe is a very interesting prospect! I think he would be a damn good fit for our DL.

So how would you suggest the SB champs trade up to get him?

keylime_5
02-27-2012, 10:50 AM
we said before the combine that this guy has ngata-like athletic ability considering his movement skills for his size. Scott always said that he would rise and be a top 15 pick. he is so very raw for his position, but his physical talent for a DT that big is top 5 pick like - it will be interesting to see where he goes. big risk since he is a project that you have to develop out of a chunk of raw clay, but extremely high upside.

K Train
02-27-2012, 10:56 AM
hes one extremely large, fast, and powerful chunk of raw clay though

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2012, 10:59 AM
So how would you suggest the SB champs trade up to get him?

No, I am just coveting out loud, however, I wouldn't advocate trading up. Our DL is fine as it is. We can roll in next season, and still be good. I like this prospect and think he will be a good fit in the middle. But I am very happy with staying put, and see how the draft takes shape. Last year we stayed at our spot, and the teams went for QBs, and prince fell to us. I'd stay at our pick, and go BPA and be very happy with that. There is no need to trade up and lose picks. I am happy staying at 32 and going BPA.

I trust Reese though. If he and marc ross, feels that trading up for anyone is a best thing, I am fine with it, but I don't see Reese trading up.

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 11:12 AM
No, I am just coveting out loud, however, I wouldn't advocate trading up. Our DL is fine as it is. We can roll in next season, and still be good. I like this prospect and think he will be a good fit in the middle. But I am very happy with staying put, and see how the draft takes shape. Last year we stayed at our spot, and the teams went for QBs, and prince fell to us. I'd stay at our pick, and go BPA and be very happy with that. There is no need to trade up and lose picks. I am happy staying at 32 and going BPA.

I trust Reese though. If he and marc ross, feels that trading up for anyone is a best thing, I am fine with it, but I don't see Reese trading up.

I am struggling with having to accept that the Colts have zero chance to get him. He is exactly the type of player that our new defense needs and I think with our new coaching staff we would have the right guys to develop him. But we could trade away every pick this year and still only hope to trade up to about the 16th pick. I can't imagine giving away multiple picks across two years for him.

vidae
02-27-2012, 11:18 AM
I am struggling with having to accept that the Colts have zero chance to get him. He is exactly the type of player that our new defense needs and I think with our new coaching staff we would have the right guys to develop him. But we could trade away every pick this year and still only hope to trade up to about the 16th pick. I can't imagine giving away multiple picks across two years for him.

You could get Poe if you really wanted him.. you have the first pick in the draft!

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 11:18 AM
You could get Poe if you really wanted him.. you have the first pick in the draft!

I briefly thought about that but of course that would be insane.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2012, 11:27 AM
I am struggling with having to accept that the Colts have zero chance to get him. He is exactly the type of player that our new defense needs and I think with our new coaching staff we would have the right guys to develop him. But we could trade away every pick this year and still only hope to trade up to about the 16th pick. I can't imagine giving away multiple picks across two years for him.

Yeah well you guys earned the first pick, so that will be QB. You can trade back I guess, but you'd be crazy not taking Luck. So, yeah you guys have no shot at Poe, but that's a good problem to have if you need a franchise QB. Think of it this way, you will go from Manning to Luck, and if Luck reached his potential then you have no dark years of finding a QB. Look at Dallas after Aikman left. Finally they found Romo, but before that they went through QBs. Miami is still trying to find their QB since Marino retired.

Take Luck, and use free agency, and the other picks to add to the team.

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 11:31 AM
Yeah well you guys earned the first pick, so that will be QB. You can trade back I guess, but you'd be crazy not taking Luck. So, yeah you guys have no shot at Poe, but that's a good problem to have if you need a franchise QB. Think of it this way, you will go from Manning to Luck, and if Luck reached his potential then you have no dark years of finding a QB. Look at Dallas after Aikman left. Finally they found Romo, but before that they went through QBs. Miami is still trying to find their QB since Marino retired.

Take Luck, and use free agency, and the other picks to add to the team.

Oh no question the Colts will take Luck. It's not even something to hesitate on. I am thrilled about Luck. He is going to be such a stud. I just want real life to be like Madden where I trade old guys away for picks and move up to get every guy in the draft that I want.

BeerBaron
02-27-2012, 11:32 AM
Yeah, Luck > Poe...potential franchise QB > any position ever really.

But damn, I just caught up on Poe's actual performance numbers at the combine. The only other person that big who can move that fast is Haloti Ngata.

I think we'll be hearing Poe's name called far sooner than anyone expects. Panthers potentially even.

btw, unrelated, but I liked the comment by a Colts person that said something like "Griffin could actually FLY at the combine and the Colts would still take Luck."

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Yeah, Luck > Poe...potential franchise QB > any position ever really.

But damn, I just caught up on Poe's actual performance numbers at the combine. The only other person that big who can move that fast is Haloti Ngata.

I think we'll be hearing Poe's name called far sooner than anyone expects. Panthers potentially even.

Ngata's 40 was 5.13. He also put up 37 on bench vs. Poe's 44. Poe is in uncharted territory here. I'm not saying he will be as good as Ngata, that will be difficult. But if he isn't it won't be because he's not big, strong, or fast enough.

BeerBaron
02-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Ngata's 40 was 5.13. He also put up 37 on bench vs. Poe's 44. Poe is in uncharted territory here. I'm not saying he will be as good as Ngata, that will be difficult. But if he isn't it won't be because he's not big, strong, or fast enough.

Ok Mr. Particulars......his actual numbers were better than Ngata's. But Ngata has consistently showed unreal athleticism for his size on the field in the NFL. So he carries the gold standard until Poe displays the same.

vidae
02-27-2012, 11:37 AM
His number was adjusted from 4.87 to 4.98. Overrated!

killxswitch
02-27-2012, 11:41 AM
His number was adjusted from 4.87 to 4.98. Overrated!

Good maybe he'll drop to the 2nd.

vidae
02-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Good maybe he'll drop to the 2nd.

More likely he drops to 11 now! \o/

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2012, 11:48 AM
More likely he drops to 11 now! \o/

And by 11 you mean 32? : )




Kill,

Yeah, but real life isn't madden! LOL. You're in a very good situation. When Phil Simms time was done, we went through Danny Kannel, Mike Cherry, Dave Brown before getting Carrie collins. Look at Dallas, with Hutchinson, Henson, and others I forgot. It's a very hard thing to find that franchise QB.

You are fine, in a very good spot, and have nothing to worry about in terms of potential. Now it will come down to developing Luck, and surrounding him with talent. If he busts, then I'd look at the franchise and how they developed him before analyzing him, and his part. So you guys are in a very ideal spot, most teams who need a QB would really love.

For us, I just wait until 32, and see what falls down. We may get a good bargain if someone slides, if not, just hold pat, and take BPA, and move on.