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View Full Version : Browns Baitin' #2 pick?


IrishBrowns
02-24-2012, 01:42 PM
Obviously a lot of talk has been going on about the Browns wanting to trade up to the number 2 slot. I have been thinking a lot about the Browns wanting to bait another team to trade up to the the number 2 pick, so we can get our guy at #4 Justin Blackmon. Let's say, Washington wants to trade up to #2 to get RGIII. That's fine, the Browns will end up with their man Blackmon at 4 and remove the Rams completely from the scenario from grabbing him. I don't think we are ready to give up on McCoy based on the fact that Holmgren and co. believe it takes a QB more than one year to learn the offense. Maybe we would take a QB in a middle round somewhere, but here we have an opportunity to stay at 4..Get Blackmon, finally a freak offensive weapon, and then we will still have our #22 to get another playmaker. I hope the Browns are just making it seem like they have interest so another team makes the big move

AntoinCD
02-24-2012, 01:46 PM
Definite possibility if they have a guy they really like who they are hoping to be there at 4 but I don't think much teams will have locked onto a specific player yet.

The Browns could use Blackmon, but they may see better value in taking a different position there and hoping for Michael Floyd, Reuben Randle, Alshon Jeffrey etc at 22 for example.

If the Browns have decided to go forward with McCoy and aren't going to take Griffin then it may make sense to bait a team into trading up for him so another elite player "falls" to them. Alternatively though they may hope RG3 falls to 4 and if they really don't want him they can move down a few places and pick up extra picks.

It's way too early to properly question team's motives since we're not even finished the combine yet.

keylime_5
02-24-2012, 01:48 PM
I think we'll see very early on in the free agency market if the Browns are serious about acquiring a QB this year. I would be shocked if they don't aggresively pursue bringing in a franchise QB this year to replace McCoy atop the depth chart.

Iamcanadian
02-24-2012, 03:21 PM
I think we'll see very early on in the free agency market if the Browns are serious about acquiring a QB this year. I would be shocked if they don't aggresively pursue bringing in a franchise QB this year to replace McCoy atop the depth chart.

I agree, RG111 will be a great franchise QB in this league and even at his best, McCoy will never be more than average.

The Browns will end up with egg on their face if they pass up the opportunity to draft RG111 and the franchise might not be competitive for another decade if that is their strategy. Even Flynn does not have Griffin's potential.

We are sitting on a gold mine since St.Louis doesn't need a franchise QB but we will have to outbid Washington and Miami, but with the #5 pick, we are in the driver's seat.

bitonti
02-24-2012, 03:38 PM
GO AWAY
BAITIN!

http://hateonme.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/idiocracy.jpg

(actually a very smart post that didn't deserve such a dumb response. The Browns not really being interested in RG3 is exactly their M.O.)

bruschis4all
02-24-2012, 03:42 PM
I agree, RG111 will be a great franchise QB in this league and even at his best, McCoy will never be more than average.

The Browns will end up with egg on their face if they pass up the opportunity to draft RG111 and the franchise might not be competitive for another decade if that is their strategy. Even Flynn does not have Griffin's potential.

We are sitting on a gold mine since St.Louis doesn't need a franchise QB but we will have to outbid Washington and Miami, but with the #5 pick, we are in the driver's seat.

I don't read the Cleveland papers or listen to their sports shows. But, is there a lot of pressure on them to make a move for a franchise qb?

Iamcanadian
02-24-2012, 03:55 PM
I don't read the Cleveland papers or listen to their sports shows. But, is there a lot of pressure on them to make a move for a franchise qb?

They have completely stunk since they came back into the league. Even the most die hearted fans need some hope or season ticket sales will finally feel the pressure.
Lerner has shown a quick hook personality when his team doesn't perform, so there had better be some improvement soon or even a respected football man like Holmgren will be fired.

PoopSandwich
02-24-2012, 04:06 PM
If the Browns don't come out with RG3 or Flynn this offseason is a failure.

FUNBUNCHER
02-24-2012, 04:29 PM
I don't see the baiting angle.

If any team wants to insure themselves the right to draft RGIII, they're gonna have to trade up to the 2nd pick. Getting too cute thinking he'll fall to a lower pick is crazy.

EIther the Browns make the trade up to #2 and put together a better deal than the Skins, or they don't.

This reminds me of the bidding war between Washington and Chicago for the rights to Jay Cutler. It's going to be that heated IMO.

I don't see how Mike Holmgren can fairly assess Colt McCoy and not believe RGIII is a quantum upgrade.

But for CLeveland to become competitive sooner than later, trading down in the first round and taking a QB like Tannehill, or Foles in the second and acquiring Olineman, an impact WR and a top shelf RB may be the more sensible move.

If the SKins can't get the 2nd pick away from St. Louis, I believe this will be Shanny's draft strategy btw.

PossumBoy9
02-24-2012, 05:53 PM
I don't believe the Rams taking Blackmon ahead of the Browns is all that likely.

If the Rams are picking #2, I'd guess it'd be Kalil or Claiborne.

CheeseKnuckles
02-24-2012, 06:23 PM
Really they are baiting teams so they can get Blackmon? Is he really that special? How are you so sure he is YOUR guy?

descendency
02-24-2012, 06:56 PM
If they don't get Flynn, they'll have to trade up for RG3. The only question is what Washington will offer or will they be happy to try to wait for Tannehill (or someone else).

pappanorm
02-24-2012, 08:18 PM
The Browns will acquire the #2 pick from the Rams and select RG3 to lead the offense with more weapons and better players. RG can throw deep with accuracy and create more overall opportunity to score than the limited QB that the Browns have now (McCoy) who is better suited as a back-up. The Browns have many needs but remember that all of the other teams drafting are getting better at the same time as you are. When you need to up-grade a position, you must begin with the most important position on the team which is Quarterback. If the Browns don't take RG3 this draft then when will the next opportunity be to get a QB like RG3? I just hope that picks #4 and #22 are going to be enough to get that #2 pick.

pappanorm
02-24-2012, 08:33 PM
If they don't get Flynn, they'll have to trade up for RG3. The only question is what Washington will offer or will they be happy to try to wait for Tannehill (or someone else).

Flynn seems more suited to join the Dolphins having gone to a southern college and for having connections with Philbin in Miami.

Scott Wright
02-24-2012, 08:50 PM
St. Louis needs to be careful not to overplay their hand. If the Rams want to trade that #2 overall pick, they should do it before the other quarterback dominoes (Flynn, Manning, etc.) start to fall. The market is going to start to dwindle once those guys are eligible to sign.

pappanorm
02-24-2012, 09:29 PM
St. Louis needs to be careful not to overplay their hand. If the Rams want to trade that #2 overall pick, they should do it before the other quarterback dominoes (Flynn, Manning, etc.) start to fall. The market is going to start to dwindle once those guys are eligible to sign.

Scott, Just got done listening to you on 92.3 FM "The Fan" in Cleveland. How coincidental since I just joined your forum tonight. Good job!! You know that the price tag for that #2 pick will never be less than what it is now for the Browns (4 & 22) regardless of other teams filling their quarterback needs. One thing for sure is that the Rams want to drop that hot potato (#2) for sure big time - That's why they are testing the waters now at the combine about down the road possibilities.

Scott Wright
02-24-2012, 09:55 PM
Scott, Just got done listening to you on 92.3 FM "The Fan" in Cleveland. How coincidental since I just joined your forum tonight. Good job!! You know that the price tag for that #2 pick will never be less than what it is now for the Browns (4 & 22) regardless of other teams filling their quarterback needs. One thing for sure is that the Rams want to drop that hot potato (#2) for sure big time - That's why they are testing the waters now at the combine about down the road possibilities.

Thanks for the kind words and welcome to the forums!

As for the Rams, what if Peyton Manning signs with Washington and Matt Flynn signs with Miami? Then all of the sudden Cleveland is the only team interested in moving up for RG3 and they hold all of the leverage. After all, there is no chance of the Rams taking RG3 for themselves, so if the Browns play their cards right they conceivably get away with dealing their second rounder to move up a couple spots and hang on to #22. Heck, if that scenario plays out Cleveland may even be able to stand pat and get RG3 at #4.

PoopSandwich
02-24-2012, 10:10 PM
In which case I will splooge everywhere.

gpngc
02-24-2012, 10:17 PM
Thanks for the kind words and welcome to the forums!

As for the Rams, what if Peyton Manning signs with Washington and Matt Flynn signs with Miami? Then all of the sudden Cleveland is the only team interested in moving up for RG3 and they hold all of the leverage. After all, there is no chance of the Rams taking RG3 for themselves, so if the Browns play their cards right they conceivably get away with dealing their second rounder to move up a couple spots and hang on to #22. Heck, if that scenario plays out Cleveland may even be able to stand pat and get RG3 at #4.

I was about to disagree with your original post but then I thought of this scenario.

However, I think it's highly unlikely that Manning signs with WAS. I guess Flynn could though. And then if Manning signs with MIA, the only teams needing QBs would be CLE and SEA. In that situation, the Rams would have no leverage assuming they won't deal RG3 to SEA. But that would give MIN all the power, and put SEA in play, which would make CLE have to offer something to move up one measly spot.

The smokescreening and negotiating behind the scenes must be fascinating. The whole situation is so complex with so many permutations based on which FAs go where, which teams prefer which draftees, and how the GMs play their hands. And a huge piece of the puzzle is a guy who may or may not have any arm strength (and could muddy the waters even more by going to NYJ or ARZ).

The QB carousel this year is just fascinating.

descendency
02-24-2012, 10:33 PM
Flynn seems more suited to join the Dolphins having gone to a southern college and for having connections with Philbin in Miami.

Splitting hairs really. The WCO run in Green Bay is very similar to the one that Mike Holmgren has basically installed in Cleveland.

pappanorm
02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Seattle albeit a minor player in this opera would still pose a threat to the braintrust in the Browns war room on draft day. The Browns cant risk any threats from anyone so they have to act. It would just be better to give the Rams #4 & #22 to appease them. I really want RG3. What I would do with the rest of the draft is trade the 5 picks in rounds 4 thru 7 for whatever I could get in the second round. There are 7 good WR and 7 good CB's that could start for the Browns that will be gone by the end of Round 2. I'd settle for 4 damn good starters out of this draft. (plus one free agent starter).

armageddon
02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
St. Louis needs to be careful not to overplay their hand. If the Rams want to trade that #2 overall pick, they should do it before the other quarterback dominoes (Flynn, Manning, etc.) start to fall. The market is going to start to dwindle once those guys are eligible to sign.



Very true, but you only need two teams to be bidding to drive the price up. Are teams really going to trust Manning ? I don't think I would.

armageddon
02-24-2012, 10:42 PM
One thing for sure, the Rams and Fisher have to cash in on this draft. The future of the Rams in St.Louis is at stake. If the Rams can turn things around quickly and create some excitement, it might be harder for them to bolt to LA. The funny thing is, the Rams still play in a pretty full stadium considering how bad, make that how terrible they have been the past 5 years.

weasel
02-24-2012, 10:44 PM
I agree with moving the pick, but I don't think Washington and Miami will be able to pick the FA class as cleanly as is suggested.

diemertsdawgs
02-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Free agency will help sort some of this out.I dont want them to trade away the picks to move up for RG3. I'm a Browns fan and I like RG3 a lot I just feel giving up numerous picks to get him is risky. We need weapons all over the field. I take RG3 at #4 if hes still there, I also like the idea of going after Matt Flynn in free agency.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 09:32 AM
Don't think for a minute that Shanny wouldn't sign Manning AND draft RGIII.

I hear the possible trade offers from Cleveland in this thread to the Rams for their #2,(#4 and #22 picks), and I laugh. The Skins are possibly prepared to give up four picks for the #2 spot, including their #1 pick in 2013, and either Laron Landry or D Hall in a sign and trade.

IMO I don't think the #4 and #22 are going to get it done for the Browns.

Allegedly Shanny believes FLynn is overrated and not worth $50-60 mil contract, so I doubt he's a target in FA.

If the SKins strike out with either Peyton or RGIII, I believe they attempt to grab Tannehill later in the first, or go stop gap with a FA and wait until the 2013 draft to find their guy.

bengalbuck
02-25-2012, 10:46 AM
I think there are 2 major factors that have to play out before determining how this all goes down:

1. I think Kalil has really emerged as a strong #3 (along with the 2 QBs). The question becomes whether a truly elite guy emerges as the #4. I think the main candidates are Claiborne, Blackmon and possibly Reiff. Cleveland would have a lot more leverage if one of those 3 guys separates from the pack.

If St. Louis views Kalil as elite and aren't in love with any of the options at 4, they will justifiably ask for a huge bounty to move down. If a guy like Blackmon runs a great 40 and separates from the pack at WR or Reiff tests great and closes the gap with Kalil, it will be a lot easier for St. Louis to trade down. Plus, that 4 will hold more value than the 6 in trade down scenarios (as of now, I'm not sure there's a huge difference between 4 and 6 as far as the Rams are concerned).

2. The QB FA situation has to play out. If Manning ends up anywhere other than Miami or Washington, St. Louis has to be ecstatic. That will likely lead to 2 teams being pretty desperate to move up for a QB. It would also really help the Rams if Tannehill's stock doesn't rise too much. If he's not viewed as a realistic top 8 option as the draft nears, more leverage for STL with 2 out of 3 of Miami, Wash, CLE coveting RG3.

H.O.O.D
02-25-2012, 11:44 AM
Don't think for a minute that Shanny wouldn't sign Manning AND draft RGIII.

I hear the possible trade offers from Cleveland in this thread to the Rams for their #2,(#4 and #22 picks), and I laugh. The Skins are possibly prepared to give up four picks for the #2 spot, including their #1 pick in 2013, and either Laron Landry or D Hall in a sign and trade.

IMO I don't think the #4 and #22 are going to get it done for the Browns.

Allegedly Shanny believes FLynn is overrated and not worth $50-60 mil contract, so I doubt he's a target in FA.

If the SKins strike out with either Peyton or RGIII, I believe they attempt to grab Tannehill later in the first, or go stop gap with a FA and wait until the 2013 draft to find their guy.

So 4 and 22 are laughable to get a deal done, where St.Louis would still be able to land either the #1 WR or CB in this class which are both huge needs and it adds up on the value chart. Yet you think others are going to take you seriously with Washington giving up 2 first round picks, 2 other picks + Hall or Landry ? So where does this "possibly prepared" statement come from ? Your best guess or do you have a source ? I haven't seen anyone think that St.Louis would get THAT much for the 2nd pick.

That's beyond a boat load to move up 4 spots from 6 to 2(The Jets gave up 17, their 2nd rounder + Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff to move up 12 spots and Atlanta gave up 2 firsts, a 2nd and 2 4ths to move up 21 spots). Washington may have done some crazy things in the past but not so sure they would give up all that. Maybe the 2 firsts and 2 other picks (depending on what picks those are) but I don't see a Landry or Hall going with that.

FWIW, McShay had this to say :

It’s been speculated that the Redskins would have to give up this year’s first-round pick, next year’s first-rounder and this year’s second- or third-rounder to get that pick from the Rams.

But ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay believes that the asking price could be less thanks to the rookie wage scale that was implemented last year.

McShay believes that Washington possibly could wrestle that No. 2 pick away from St. Louis in exchange for this year’s first-round pick, as well as this year’s second-rounder (38th overall) and fourth-rounder (102nd overall).

“I do think they’d flip-flop the first round and somewhere in the ballpark of the second and the fourth,” McShay said while speaking on a pre-draft conference call.

But Washington — which currently holds a first, second, third, two fourths, a fifth, sixth and seventh-round pick in this year’s draft — might have to sweeten the deal because of competition from the Cleveland Browns, who also need a quarterback and hold two first-round picks, including the fourth overall spot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/mcshay-redskins-have-options-in-nfl-draft/2012/02/17/gIQA1mquJR_blog.html

Looking at the trade value chart, the 2nd pick is valued at 2600 points.

4 (1800) + 22 (780) = 2580

6 (1600) + 39 (510) = 2110

So Washington's 1st and 2nd + another 2nd would be just about as good as Cleveland's 2 first in point value. Now obviously things don't always go exactly by the chart but Washington would be overpaying by a country mile. It is also obvious that 4 & 22 will hold more value to the Rams than 6, 39 and a 2013 2nd rounder but Washington could probably sweeten their offer by making that 2013 2nd round pick a 1st and paint Cleveland out of the picture and it still comes in at less than what you are saying.

IMO Cleveland could get a deal done with 4, 37 and another pick and get that deal sealed before FA starts, which would still be of great benefit to the Rams because FA could take all or a good chunk of their leverage away.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Put it this way, there are rumors in D.C. that a deal has already been done with the Rams for their 2nd pick.

Of course Cleveland is a player, but I don't think they have the inside track for the Rams pick.

Just a fan sharing what I've heard. We'll all know soon enough.

H.O.O.D
02-25-2012, 12:19 PM
Put it this way, there are rumors in D.C. that a deal has already been done with the Rams for their 2nd pick.

Of course Cleveland is a player, but I don't think they have the inside track for the Rams pick.

Just a fan sharing what I've heard. We'll all know soon enough.

On the interwebs there are rumors St.Louis had preliminary talks with Washington, amongst other teams. Doubt a deal is done, bet it is much closer to the 2 sides merely feeling each other out at this point in the process.

If Washington has a deal done they'd be wise to make it official before another team comes to the table with a better offer or more intriguing offer.

armageddon
02-25-2012, 12:25 PM
No way a deal is done already. The Rams will will hold out for the best bid possible. They will also send out smoke screens to try to drive the price up. I guarantee it will take more than you guys are saying. It will take MORE than both of the Brown's #1's. Not much, but a little more. Probably have to add a 2nd or 3rd also. The Skins will use next yrs #1 as bait too.

Browns - both 1sts + 2nd
Skins - 1st, 2nd 3rd + 2013 1st

RG3 won't go for less than that. Guarantee it.

armageddon
02-25-2012, 12:27 PM
But ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay believes that the asking price could be less thanks to the rookie wage scale that was implemented last year.


=================

Huh ? Makes no sense. The price will be MORE because the rooks are getting paid way less. No more Mr.Bradford's 60 mill guarantee deals.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 12:29 PM
Skins - 1st, 2nd, 4th and next year's #1.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 12:33 PM
yay for bogus draft rumors in april. no trade will happen until right before the draft. this is a last second league. does anyone actually think that whatever washington offers the rams won't give cleveland a chance to match? they have better picks in every round plus an extra first and multiple 4ths.....not to mention that these guys haven't even worked out or interviewed, teams haven't signed free agents or made trades, and no one has set their draft board yet.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 12:35 PM
....and if Washington signs Manning there is a 0% chance they move for Griffin. That's just stupid. Signing Manning = win now mode. They would try to acquire pieces to win a super bowl as soon as they can (Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne?) much like Minnesota when they brought in Favre or Arizona with Warner.

armageddon
02-25-2012, 12:36 PM
Skins - 1st, 2nd, 4th and next year's #1.



I think that would get it done. The Brown's would have to add their 2012 2nd this year to stay in the race. That would make it a VERY tough decision for the Rams. I would lean to the Skins bid because their 2013 1st > Browns 2012 #22.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 12:45 PM
2013 first is not > #22 this year. You can spend the 22 this year, which makes it more valuable. Plus every other pick in every round for the Browns is higher than the Redskins'.

It is really simple. If the Redskins offer a package that the Browns don't match, they can get Griffin. If the Browns are willing to match, no way do the Rams take less. Browns are in the driver's seat, and they can get to #2 if they are willing to pay whatever the Redskins are willing to pay.

armageddon
02-25-2012, 12:47 PM
2013 first is not > #22 this year. You can spend the 22 this year, which makes it more valuable. Plus every other pick in every round for the Browns is higher than the Redskins'.



Skins 2013 1st will be a high one imo. That's why I said Skins 2013 1st > Browns 2012 #22. Possibly a top 5 pick.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 12:49 PM
....and if Washington signs Manning there is a 0% chance they move for Griffin. That's just stupid. Signing Manning = win now mode. They would try to acquire pieces to win a super bowl as soon as they can (Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne?) much like Minnesota when they brought in Favre or Arizona with Warner.

Peyton isn't playing for 5 more years. The Skins will still need to find his replacement in a couple seasons and if you can grab him now, why not??

Manning is an unknown; new offense, playing outdoors, weak triceps that's taken RPMs off his intermediate and deeper throws. However Peyton is still good enough to win 9-10 games next year with Shanahan.

No, if the Skins can fix their QB problem for the next decade AND win now in 2012, why not do it??

SIgn Peyton, bring in a WR like Colston as a FA, maybe find another safety/CB and all systems are go.

IMO the Skins right now are more talented than the Colts were last year without Peyton, so it's not like the team needs a complete rebuild to compete for a wildcard with him as the starter.

I love RGIII, but expecting him to lead the Skins to the playoffs as a rookie is not realistic.

H.O.O.D
02-25-2012, 12:49 PM
yay for bogus draft rumors in april. no trade will happen until right before the draft. this is a last second league. does anyone actually think that whatever washington offers the rams won't give cleveland a chance to match? they have better picks in every round plus an extra first and multiple 4ths.....not to mention that these guys haven't even worked out or interviewed, teams haven't signed free agents or made trades, and no one has set their draft board yet.

If St.Louis is smart they would want that deal done ASAP. Don't wanna risk losing any or all leverage, however like you said RG3 hasn't worked out yet so it may prove difficult to get the deal done right now.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 12:52 PM
Peyton isn't playing for 5 more years. The Skins will still need to find his replacement in a couple seasons and if you can grab him now, why not??

Manning is an unknown; new offense, playing outdoors, weak triceps that's taken RPMs off his intermediate and deeper throws. However Peyton is still good enough to win 9-10 games next year with Shanahan.

No, if the Skins can fix their QB problem for the next decade AND win now in 2012, why not do it??

SIgn Peyton, bring in a WR like Colston as a FA, maybe find another safety/CB and all systems are go.

IMO the Skins right now are more talented than the Colts were last year without Peyton, so it's not like the team needs a complete rebuild to compete for a wildcard with him as the starter.

I love RGIII, but expecting him to lead the Skins to the playoffs as a rookie is not realistic.

well that's not how teams operate in the NFL. If they sign Manning then they'll use all of their resources in free agency and the draft this year to make a super bowl run. If they take a QB then it wouldn't be until the middle rounds. Taking a QB in the top 5 this year means they want the guy to either start right away or wait a year. Peyton Manning signing with Washington would be a win now move, not a stopgap/keep the seat warm for Griffin move.

ryno626
02-25-2012, 12:54 PM
Scott, Just got done listening to you on 92.3 FM "The Fan" in Cleveland. How coincidental since I just joined your forum tonight. Good job!! You know that the price tag for that #2 pick will never be less than what it is now for the Browns (4 & 22) regardless of other teams filling their quarterback needs. One thing for sure is that the Rams want to drop that hot potato (#2) for sure big time - That's why they are testing the waters now at the combine about down the road possibilities.

If you go off the point value chart the Browns could move up to two without giving up #22. It would take either their second & fourth rounder or a combination of their 2nd rounder and a future pick.

edit - but of course that all changes if multiple teams get involved. They may need to throw in additional picks to sweeten the deal.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
The Redskins had one major problem last season; Rex Grossman.
He averaged like 2 turnovers a game. It's not like the Skins were getting rocked by teams last year and they still beat the Giants twice.

A smart consistent QB at the helm and a healthy safety that either covers the mistakes of our younger corners or allows D Hall to freelance is all the D really needs.

THe SKins aren't thinking Super Bowl with Manning, they wanna make the playoffs.
This isn't similar to the Minnesota situation. WHen they signed Favre they looked like a SB contender minus a pro bowl QB.

Even with a 28 year old Peyton Manning this isn't a SB squad.
Snyder wants to get back in the playoffs AND build a SB contender through the draft.

Signing Manning and drafting RGIII does both.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
If you go off the point value chart the Browns could move up to two without giving up #22. It would take either their second & fourth rounder or a combination of their 2nd rounder and a future pick.

the value chart is better used for midround pick trades. when it comes to top 10 picks, you can throw the chart out the window - especially now with the rookie wage scale. If there is a bidding war for the #2 pick, then the top offer wins out, and it will far surpass the value of the #2 pick on the trade chart.

H.O.O.D
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
Skins 2013 1st will be a high one imo. That's why I said Skins 2013 1st > Browns 2012 #22. Possibly a top 5 pick.

Nobody would have bought the 9ers picking 30th this year if I tried to sell it last year. It's all guesswork right now.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 01:02 PM
The Redskins had one major problem last season; Rex Grossman.
He averaged like 2 turnovers a game. It's not like the Skins were getting rocked by teams last year and they still beat the Giants twice.

A smart consistent QB at the helm and a healthy safety that either covers the mistakes of our younger corners or allows D Hall to freelance is all the D really needs.

THe SKins aren't thinking Super Bowl with Manning, they wanna make the playoffs.
This isn't similar to the Minnesota situation. WHen they signed Favre they looked like a SB contender minus a pro bowl QB.

Even with a 28 year old Peyton Manning this isn't a SB squad.
Snyder wants to get back in the playoffs AND build a SB contender through the draft.

Signing Manning and drafting RGIII does both.

If they want to compete for a super bowl now and in the next couple years they will sign Manning. If they want to build for the long term then they will draft Griffin and not sign Manning. No way they do both. They have a good enough defense and they would only be a WR or 2 away from being able to compete on offense if they sign Manning. If they sign Peyton Manning then it is obvious that they will be expecting to compete for super bowls immediately. If they bring in a young QB maybe they do so with a 2nd or 3rd rounder - or even trade back into the late first - but they won't go all in for Griffin and trade all those draft picks if they sign Manning. That's just not how teams work in the NFL.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 01:04 PM
Skins 2013 1st will be a high one imo. That's why I said Skins 2013 1st > Browns 2012 #22. Possibly a top 5 pick.

that's not how it works. teams usually value a pick next year as equal to a pick this year that is a round earlier.....so 2013 2nd rounders are trade for high 3rd round picks in 2012, etc. If you want a high 2nd round pick this year, you'll have to trade a 2013 first or something of equal value to get it. A 2013 first round pick (even from a team who has a top 10 pick this year) is roughly equal to a late 2012 first rounder.

armageddon
02-25-2012, 01:17 PM
that's not how it works. teams usually value a pick next year as equal to a pick this year that is a round earlier.....so 2013 2nd rounders are trade for high 3rd round picks in 2012, etc. If you want a high 2nd round pick this year, you'll have to trade a 2013 first or something of equal value to get it. A 2013 first round pick (even from a team who has a top 10 pick this year) is roughly equal to a late 2012 first rounder.



Yeah, you're probably right.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 01:20 PM
Just saying that signing Manning for the Skins IMO isn't about a SB run in 2012.
It's about getting Shanahan's program on solid footing and becoming a playoff caliber squad.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 01:28 PM
I would be surprised if any team signs Peyton Manning without the expectations of contending. Making the playoffs is a goal for any team, let alone one with a stud QB. I think most teams set a little more lofty goals for themselves once they already have a great QB.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2012, 01:42 PM
Is Manning still a great QB??? Playing in a new offense for the first time in 15 years at less than full strength throwing the football???

I'll believe he's fully healthy when I see it. Until then I prefer to believe Peyton will be a good QB in his next NFL job, but not top 3.

keylime_5
02-25-2012, 05:19 PM
we don't know how the surgeries will affect how good Manning is, but if anyone signs him the expectations will be that he is still an elite QB. how realistic that is will be a big player in the decisions of teams like the Redskins.....sign Manning and take the risk of his health to make a super bowl run now - or trade a bundle of picks and get Griffin to solve the QB position for the long term? that is their question to answer this offseason.

pappanorm
02-25-2012, 09:27 PM
If you go off the point value chart the Browns could move up to two without giving up #22. It would take either their second & fourth rounder or a combination of their 2nd rounder and a future pick.

edit - but of course that all changes if multiple teams get involved. They may need to throw in additional picks to sweeten the deal.

Browns picks in rounds 4 thru 7 add up to about 230 pts. which is the equivalant of two late 3rd round picks. I would rather spend less picks on better quality players. I just do not have much faith in players taken after round 3. They just amount to being back-ups I suppose.