PDA

View Full Version : Who Lost Money at the Combine?


StickSkills
02-26-2012, 04:22 PM
I heard Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time.

Vaylor
02-26-2012, 04:43 PM
I heard Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time.

I hope it means he falls to #27. God he would be a monster if used in the similar way Welker was this past year.

4U2NV
02-26-2012, 04:44 PM
Alshon Jeffery. Didn't do a damn thing. No way this coward goes in the first.

vidae
02-26-2012, 05:07 PM
I do think Alshon lost a bit of money. He really needed to answer some questions today and he didn't. I don't think he's a COWARD though..

GaMeTiMe
02-26-2012, 05:10 PM
Dwight Jones apparently drew the ire of a lot of coaches for effort. Bad sign in this class of receivers.

SuperPacker
02-26-2012, 05:26 PM
He'll have a chance to run well at his pro day. Anyway he'll probably be faster than Kendall Wright haha. Something went wrong there!

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 05:26 PM
I heard Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time.

Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time, but this may be a Joe Haden situation where there was some health or technique thing that really screwed him up and his pro day is going to be a better indication of his actual speed.

(If you don't recall, Haden ran a 4.57 at the combine and then a 4.43 at his pro day, the latter actually indicates how fast he plays, the former is an anomaly).

SuperPacker
02-26-2012, 05:29 PM
We can definitely say that Kendall Wright is not 4.6 fast.

Larry
02-26-2012, 05:32 PM
Sanu, his chances of going late first aren't looking good running a 4.67.

Sloopy
02-26-2012, 05:38 PM
I've said it before but I will reiterate it here.

It seems as though Alshon lost the weight just for the weigh in

It suspect the weight wasn't lost in the weight room working out and losing it the right way for it to translate to a functional weight and doesn't provide functional strength, hence why he didn't participate.

If I had to guess, a lot of the weight may even be already coming back as it was probably mostly water weight that was lost through dehydration as well as a strict diet for the week leading up to the combine.

I said it in the other thread but I remember being able to drop an entire weight class in a week leading up to a wrestling match. As soon as the weigh in was done I was eating again and drinking fluids and thus my weight undoubtedly went up. Had I actually tried to wrestle at my weigh in weight I would have been too weak to do much of anything.

Could be wrong, but these are my assumptions.

The guy really needed to show that he could lose the weight the right way and have it still be a functional weight for him. He didn't do that and I think it might cost him the first round.

I would even go as far as to tag him with high bust potential.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 05:43 PM
I would even go as far as to tag him with high bust potential.

One of the Bob McGinn's scout sources said about Jeffrey something to the effect of "He plays the game really hard, but he doesn't do anything else hard"... which definitely has the ring of truth to it. I think if he blew the interview, he could end up falling out of the second round.

Sloopy
02-26-2012, 05:47 PM
One of the Bob McGinn's scout sources said about Jeffrey something to the effect of "He plays the game really hard, but he doesn't do anything else hard"... which definitely has the ring of truth to it. I think if he blew the interview, he could end up falling out of the second round.

I just see a guy who shows up for games but doesn't put the work in outside of that 60 minutes of game time.

I see a guy who will struggle with his weight his entire career.

I'm not sure about his practice habits or time spent in the film room but if they are anything like his weight room/conditioning habits he isn't going to make it in this league.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 06:32 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

underscore
02-26-2012, 06:33 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

Then why have the combine?

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 06:42 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

Film+Workouts>Film>Workouts.

Nobody is claiming any different. Everything you do in the pre-draft process matters, if nothing else it will help you break ties. I mean, if you're looking at your board and you have two guys with the same grade at the same position, you might as well know which guy is faster, stronger, quicker, more explosive, etc. in case you have to pick between those two guys in the actual draft.

So a guy doesn't win or lose at the combine based solely on tape, they win or lose relative to other players at the same position with the same grade based on tape. The difference between being the third guy taken at your position and the fifth guy taken at your position may well be millions of dollars.

Plus, it's not like Clay Matthews or Jason Pierre-Paul were first round picks on the basis of their stellar tape, but both of those guys have put in NFL performances that had a lot to do with why they have rings now.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 06:42 PM
Then why have the combine?

For those last two reasons I listed. Interviews and having your medical team take a look at the players of interest.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 06:47 PM
Film+Workouts>Film>Workouts.

Nobody is claiming any difference. Everything you do in the pre-draft process matters, if nothing else it will help you break ties. I mean, if you're looking at your board and you have two guys with the same grade at the same position, you might as well know which guy is faster, stronger, quicker, more explosive, etc. in case you have to pick between those two guys in the actual draft.

So a guy doesn't win or lose at the combine based solely on tape, they win or lose relative to other players at the same position with the same grade based on tape. The difference between being the third guy taken at your position and the fifth guy taken at your position may well be millions of dollars.

Plus, it's not like Clay Matthews was a first round pick on the basis of his stellar tape at USC.

Yea you find out a guy can run fast or jump high..but if it doesn't translate onto tape, then its all for not.

Clay Mathews showed enough on tape for GB to pick him. Even though he had limited tape, he still showed explosiveness and athleticism that was tailor made for the Pack.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 06:51 PM
Yea you find out a guy can run fast or jump high..but if it doesn't translate onto tape, then its all for not.

Clay Mathews showed enough on tape for GB to pick him. Even though he had limited tape, he still showed explosiveness and athleticism that was tailor made for the Pack.

Guys sometimes become better players in the NFL than they were in college. When this happens, it's due to taking advantage of physical attributes more effectively than they were able to do so in college. You have to know that those physical attributes are there in the first place.

There are a lot more "numbers" people in the actual NFL than I think you give credit for. Not everybody is the Raiders, who put numbers over everything, but you have to believe that Clay Matthews's 1.49 second 10-yard split turned a lot more heads than whatever "explosiveness" he may have left on tape.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Guys sometimes become better players in the NFL than they were in college. When this happens, it's due to taking advantage of physical attributes more effectively than they were able to do so in college. You have to know that those physical attributes are there in the first place.

There are a lot more "numbers" people in the actual NFL than I think you give credit for. Not everybody is the Raiders, who put numbers over everything, but you have to believe that Clay Matthews's 1.49 second 10-yard split turned a lot more heads than whatever "explosiveness" he may have left on tape.

I agree... the 10 yard split is way more important than the 40 yard dash. You will never run your 40 yard dash in your football career. Football is a game of spurts.

But if you looked at the tape, you'd see the same explosiveness that you would've saw at the combine (with no pads and in a non-football related events)

Clarkw267
02-26-2012, 07:00 PM
Anyone remember Mario Manningham coming out of Michigan?

That's who Kendall Wright reminds me of, but with better hands.

Both are clearly explosive players, who for whatever reason, just can't get a good start in the 40.

STsACE
02-26-2012, 07:03 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

I believe all players can benefit from the combine. Some need to prove they can lost weight to get quicker while others need to add weight and not lose quickness. Hands. Arm Strength. Speed. Is it better than what was asked of them in school? Some players have to prove what they did in college isn't all they have to offer and it starts with the drills and workouts.

Plus it gives a chance to see how these players respond to the media and interviews AFTER not performing how they were supposed to in the workouts. Notice I said after the workouts.

And biggest loser, has got to be Jeffrey. Healthy and not running the 40 when the biggest concern is speed. A good 40 time could have kept him in the 1st round and pushed him into talks of going top 20.

ChiFan24
02-26-2012, 07:05 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

Ugh. There's always one person.

Joe Adams killed what I thought was a good chance to push the first round.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 07:08 PM
Ugh. There's always one person.

Joe Adams killed what I thought was a good chance to push the first round.

Yep. I'm the one that understands what's most important.

Joe Adams was a one-trick pony to begin with. Greg Childs is a better football player...just that he's still recovering from the injury.

ChiFan24
02-26-2012, 07:13 PM
Yep. I'm the one that understands what's most important.

Joe Adams was a one-trick pony to begin with. Greg Childs is a better football player...just that he's still recovering from the injury.

Well no, Adams is still awesome.

And the reason you were quoted has nothing to with what's important, it has to do with reality. There's a combine for a reason. NFL teams care about these drills.

Rashaan Salaam
02-26-2012, 07:15 PM
Well no, Adams is still awesome.

And the reason you were quoted has nothing to with what's important, it has to do with reality. There's a combine for a reason. NFL teams care about these drills.

Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards

ChiFan24
02-26-2012, 07:18 PM
Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards

Ignoring the fact that you are oversimplifying things, that's not what this thread is about. Certain guys lose money at the combine. That's a thing that happens, whether you agree with it or not. This thread acknowledges that.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 07:21 PM
Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards

How do you know which teams put a lot of stock in the combine and which don't? I think this is just confirmation bias on your part. Several GMs who are very highly regarded are actually fairly hardline on numbers drafting. Ted Thompson of the Packers, for example, has position specific size and athleticism requirements before he will even consider putting a player on his board. Last I heard, he's pretty good at the "draft" part of his job.

brat316
02-26-2012, 07:21 PM
guys with great triangle numbers but not production make money cause some team will take him on as a late round project. He just went from say 6-UDFA to 4-6 round. And the complete opposite can happen where its not worth to draft him cause he doesn't offer really anything even thought o tape he might have showed some flashes.

Combine is great for late round guys.

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 08:10 PM
Yea you find out a guy can run fast or jump high..but if it doesn't translate onto tape, then its all for not.

Clay Mathews showed enough on tape for GB to pick him. Even though he had limited tape, he still showed explosiveness and athleticism that was tailor made for the Pack.

If Clay Matthews had run a best time of 4.85 before the draft, I don't care what his game film looked like, I doubt he would have been drafted where he was by GB.

A great combine won't skyrocket someone who's a bum player on Saturdays, but a bad combine can drop a good player in pads.

And guys still get drafted relatively high with mediocre production because of their measurables which many NFL teams still view as 'upside'.

You can't coach big. You can't coach country strong. You can't coach lightening speed. But NFL coaches still believe they can 'coach up' players with elite tools into productive NFL players.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

Kendall Wright may still end up going in the first round, but he's no longer a top 15 prospect.
If Sanu had run a 4.3, he would have been a lock for no later than probably the 45th pick.

Guys who are expected to catch passes and cover WRs, or rush the passer and collapse the pocket need to have good test numbers to put their game film into context.

Duffman57
02-26-2012, 08:34 PM
I dont believe Wrights 40 time. He had an unofficial 4.45 and 4.50, and then the official jumped to 4.62....

Scouts dont pay attention to the official time, they trust their own watches, and NFLN has a former scout timing them at the combine, I'll go with the unofficial for most of the guys...

Jeffery definitely lost money. He really wimped out of these drills. There's no way he would've run anything good.

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 08:45 PM
Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.

Usually the combine is a check on game tape ("he looks explosive, is he explosive?") but there are times, and I believe this is one, where the game tape is a check on the combine ("there's no possible way he's that slow.")

So we wait for Wright's pro day. I think the talk of him being the #1 WR taken, though, is pretty much put to bed.

Cigaro
02-26-2012, 08:49 PM
I'll go ahead and be the next poster in line to say Jeffery lost money. He was initially poised to make money following his weight-in, but not running will obviously cost him. I think calling him a coward is a bit dramatic, because despite him losing money, I think not running may have been in his best interest. Not running likely stems from his acknowledgement of him running a slow forty, and although not running will cost him, I think running and running a very poor forty could potentially cost him more.

Duffman57
02-26-2012, 09:08 PM
Kendall Wright ran through Big 12 secondaries like they were standing still. I know the guy is fast, he just didn't run well.

But its not even like he ran bad. He ran a solid 40 time, he just got screwed by the offical timing system. Most scouts there had him somewhere between 4.4 and 4.5 IMO which is a really solid 40 time.

phlysac
02-27-2012, 12:15 AM
I think Kendall Wright had a LeSean McCoy workout.

Everyone sees it and says "oh no, slow, not explosive enough," when if you watch game tape, the speed and explosion are obvious.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 12:36 AM
I heard Kendall Wright had a bad 40 time.

I don't think Kendall Wright "lost". He might've not "gained", but I think enough folks will look at the tape again and see that this was a kid who was a deep threat (now, I'm sure after the poor 40 time, guys are going back and spinning up tapes to see if he's a deep threat or a slot guy, but I still believe he's a legit deep threat). He was a mid-late first type, and my hunch is that he's still in that range. Reminds me a lot of Lee Evans.

PoopSandwich
02-27-2012, 12:42 AM
Hopefully RG3 some how falls to 4 and Wright falls to 22 and Lamar Miller to 36 or 37 whatever the **** we pick at.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 12:44 AM
Hopefully RG3 some how falls to 4 and Wright falls to 22 and Lamar Miller to 36 or 37 whatever the **** we pick at.

I think that's wishful thinking. Here's hoping for Browns fans, though. That said, I think it's almost a lock that someone goes up to 2 to get RG3 (still think it's the Browns).

TrillFam
02-27-2012, 12:50 AM
Sanu, his chances of going late first aren't looking good running a 4.67.

I don't infused understand why any are saying Sanu did poorly. Everyone who saw him run his 40 said he didnt get out of his stance well....thats a fixable problem that will be corrected easily. Other than the 40, he excelled in every drill in which he competed. His numbers show a superb athlete for a supposed possession WR. 10'6 broad, 6.88 3 cone, 36 vert those arent bad numbers at all.

I believe the WR that lost the most money was Reuben Randle. He was supposed to big a 6'4 burner but measured under 6'3 & had the worst day of the projected 1-2 round WRs. He was near the bottom in every event and that vertical is just inexcusable for a WR.

31" vertical jump (38th out of 39)
4.55 40 yd dash (tied for 27th out of 40)
10'1" broad jump (tied for 19th out of 36)
Bench reps (tied for 18th out of 39)
3 cone drill (17th out of 26)
20 yd shuttle (25th out of 26)
60 yd shuttle (last of 13)

SolidGold
02-27-2012, 02:24 PM
Burfict lost alot

lod01
02-27-2012, 05:12 PM
Alshon Jeffery. Didn't do a damn thing. No way this coward goes in the first.

Coward is good. Puss. Wuss Loser also fit the bill. He'll bust out.....of the league.

lod01
02-27-2012, 05:17 PM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

I could give you a ton of names to prove you wrong but I'lll just go with one.

RB Chris Henry. Total bum in college who looked like a superstar at the combine. Got him moved all the way to the 2nd rd. No chance in hell he gets drafted in the 2nd without the combine. He was a 5th rounder at best. Thus he won and won big $.

Iamcanadian
02-27-2012, 05:59 PM
I think it just showed perhaps that Kendall Wright is a product of RG111. A great QB can make an average receiver excellent, ask Wes Welker.
On the other hand Wright will have another shot at his pro day, but right now he is no longer a 1st rounder.

batsandgats
02-27-2012, 06:28 PM
I think it just showed perhaps that Kendall Wright is a product of RG111. A great QB can make an average receiver excellent, ask Wes Welker.
On the other hand Wright will have another shot at his pro day, but right now he is no longer a 1st rounder.
Matt Cassel was great? B.J. Symons was great? Kingsbury was great? 1k under all of these guys... Joey Harrington/Daunte Culpepper (post knee injury) and Cleo Lemon were great in Miami? The only difference in Miami was that Welker didn't see as many snaps on offense because he was also a return man with 2129 all purpose yards.

The only thing it showed was that Wright doesn't look great without pads on.

descendency
02-27-2012, 06:46 PM
Welcome to the combine, where the good teams ignore it and the bad teams set their draft boards

Except the good teams don't ignore it.

Every team evaluates game film, then goes to the combine with expectations. If a player exceeds (or fails to meet) them, then you go back and watch the film and see if you think he's a workout warrior or if you miss-evaluated him. You then adjust accordingly.

That means, a first round guy who "blows up the combine" will rise and "good teams" aren't at the top of the first round.

--------------------------------------

The Combine is the first, and only, opportunity where everyone is on an even playing field. The best teams are the ones that can extract what each performance actually means and makes good decisions based on it.

There is a big difference between being a QB at Mississippi State (where you play Alabama, LSU, and other SEC teams) and being a QB at Troy. However, when you get to the Combine, you get a chance to actually see if that guy from Troy really measures up.

You'd obviously prefer to see them in pads playing a real game or 10, but that won't ever happen.

holt_bruce81
02-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Jeffery not running didn't really hurt him. He's still going to run at his pro day. He only helped his stock with that weigh in.

PossibleCabbage
02-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Jeffery not running didn't really hurt him. He's still going to run at his pro day. He only helped his stock with that weigh in.

Though, by putting all his eggs in one basket, if Jeffery doesn't run especially well at his pro day, he will have thoroughly torpedoed his stock.

Unless he runs sub 4.5 at his pro day, no way I'd take him in round 1.

holt_bruce81
02-27-2012, 08:00 PM
Though, by putting all his eggs in one basket, if Jeffery doesn't run especially well at his pro day, he will have thoroughly torpedoed his stock.

Unless he runs sub 4.5 at his pro day, no way I'd take him in round 1.

What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?

Taber21
02-27-2012, 08:09 PM
What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?

Your pro day is a controlled environment. Your school and your team have done whatever needs to be done in order to assist you to be the best you can at the exact moment you run your 40, and perform in all position drills for that matter. The combine is a much more pressure packed, uncontrollable environment where players tend to do slightly worse than their own pro days. Due to these factors, if you wait until your pro day and still do not perform well, teams tend to look worse on that performance than a bad performance at the combine.

PossibleCabbage
02-27-2012, 08:21 PM
What's the difference between not running well at the combine or not running well at the proday?

He looks like a guy who is going to put in the minimal amount of effort in order to get drafted high, and nothing more when the major concern scouts have about Jeffrey is that while he plays hard, and he does absolutely nothing else hard.

I mean, I'm not saying that Jeffrey didn't do anything except drop wait in time for the combine weigh-in and he didn't run the 40 because he wasn't at all ready for it, but what has happened is darn near exactly what would have happened if that was the case.

PossibleCabbage
02-27-2012, 09:52 PM
Looking back at it, didn't Brockers have kind of an awful combine?

I mean, he was great at the weigh-ins, no one can deny that. But even with his long arms, 19 reps is kind of embarrassing for a defensive tackle. He also ran the third slowest 40 of any DL prospect (5.36 seconds, ahead of Dominique Hamilton and Christian Tupou, neither of whom is a lock to even be drafted), he jumped poorly (26.5" and 105" vert and broad), and his shuttle was atrocious (4.81 seconds).

I mean, it's not like this is a guy with tons of great tape, this is a guy with 14 college starts who was thought of as a top ten pick because of his great tools, but what if the only thing he really has going for him is that he's really tall and long? Can you really take him in the top 10 now?

I'm inclined to put him behind Still, Cox, and Poe.

Don Vito
02-27-2012, 10:00 PM
He did not wow like people thought he would, but I still think he goes in the top 20. Some of those numbers do scare me a little bit, I'm not going to lie. He is still very young and has the ability to be a dominant DL in the NFL, but I think everyone was expecting a lot more from him.

gpngc
02-27-2012, 10:03 PM
Brockers doesn't have top-10 film is my problem with him. Just a lot of potential. And size. I prefer Cox but he's limited to 3-tech. Brockers could potentially play anywhere. Or nowhere. He's scary (both ways).

I really don't care AT ALL about his 40-yard dash though. Or the jumps. Although he doesn't have a great burst on tape so I'm not surprised he didn't jump incredibly.

PossibleCabbage
02-27-2012, 10:21 PM
Brockers doesn't have top-10 film is my problem with him. Just a lot of potential. And size.

What sort of potential does he have other than size? I mean, he can get stronger... but he's not explosive and he doesn't move well. What are you going to do with that?

gpngc
02-27-2012, 11:02 PM
What sort of potential does he have other than size? I mean, he can get stronger... but he's not explosive and he doesn't move well. What are you going to do with that?

Refine his technique. He does move pretty well for his size - we are just overreacting to a 40-yard dash by a 300+ pound guy who will never run 40 yards. You can improve your first step if you work at it. And your hands.

bitonti
02-27-2012, 11:10 PM
Looking back at it, didn't Brockers have kind of an awful combine?

I mean, he was great at the weigh-ins, no one can deny that. But even with his long arms, 19 reps is kind of embarrassing for a defensive tackle. He also ran the third slowest 40 of any DL prospect (5.36 seconds, ahead of Dominique Hamilton and Christian Tupou, neither of whom is a lock to even be drafted), he jumped poorly (26.5" and 105" vert and broad), and his shuttle was atrocious (4.81 seconds).

I mean, it's not like this is a guy with tons of great tape, this is a guy with 14 college starts who was thought of as a top ten pick because of his great tools, but what if the only thing he really has going for him is that he's really tall and long? Can you really take him in the top 10 now?

I'm inclined to put him behind Still, Cox, and Poe.


great post also let's not forget Brockers has 2 career sacks. He went from top 10 to possibly late 1 or beyond. That's alot of money to lose.

Ozzy
02-28-2012, 10:46 PM
Everything can change clearly with pro days and a better time. It is not the end all, but nothing I have seen other than 40 times in terms of the combine performance, not including off the field issues, can hurt a players draft stock more.


Dwayne Allen 40 at 4.89- Very surprised, thought he was a much better athlete than that as a 40 time, on the field he easily looks like the best athlete but had shocking numbers. Could lose out completely on the possibility of being in the 1st round. Great skills but needs to show he is an elite athlete to get picked up high.


Vontaze Burfict 40 at 4.93- Very surprised, Larry Foote back in the day also ran a very slow 40 that was close to 5 sections, but not sure Burfict has the instincts and feel Foote had.


Leonard Johnson 40 at 4.65- Great corner, poor time, can improve it I bet and will, should not be an issue if he does improve.


Eric Page 40 at 4.60- Surprised such a fast little playmaker is so slow in the 40, interesting but again he could improve on that time.


Robert Blanton 40 at 4.66- Bad showing for a corner already at the boarder of being undrafted.


Kendall Wright 40 at 4.61- Surprise to all, but again he can improve the time and I expect him too. He plays a lot faster on the field than this time says.

duesouth
02-29-2012, 03:59 AM
Leonard Johnson - CB - Iowa State - short CB - can't run and can't jump = late day three pick.

Th30ry
02-29-2012, 08:06 AM
If you think anyone won or loss the combine...then you guys need help.

Film > Workouts.

The only benefits from the combine are the player interviews & medical reports.

I agree that what you put on the film far outweighs the workouts, but we see it year after year, if a guy looks pretty solid on tape, and puts up great numbers at the combine he elevates his stock tremendously in some cases. Where as the opposite is true as well, if he looks decent on tape but has a poor showing at the combine people begin to drop said player down their boards because you can't coach speed.

There are some well run, and some poorly run organizations in the league that place a different value on different attributes, that's what you've got here. Some teams attach little weight to these numbers, others attach too much weight to football metrics. That's why there is no perfect science, and it's part of what keeps us all coming back for more!

brat316
02-29-2012, 08:47 AM
Workouts really = Potential. You see that film, you think this, you get this. Now you see this, and get WOW, now go back see why didn't he do that.

Maybe the top 15 pick has a lot of room to grow and get better with those #s, now he moves up a few slots. After reviewing tape you do see flashes of those #s.

Or for some teams the opposite happens, drop him a few cause he never showed those #s looking all through the film.

And then you have guys with good tape, but not great numbers. He is what he is, doesn't look like much room to grow with the tools he has.

Don't you want your 32nd pick to look like he should have been #1 overall pick, 3-4 years down the line?

zachsaints52
02-29-2012, 08:54 AM
Vontaze. People talked late first, running a 4.9 something made people second guess.

San Diego Chicken
02-29-2012, 09:01 AM
I always go back to this old piece written by one of the best football minds of all time.

http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh3.htm

The gyst: Football people can see value in the combine, but from different angles than us fans do.

brat316
02-29-2012, 09:29 AM
Reading on the 40, it would be pretty interesting if they ran it from the position they usually start at in football. The only guys that should be running it from the down position would be the linemen.

Th30ry
02-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Vontaze. People talked late first, running a 4.9 something made people second guess.

Didn't Brandon Spikes run over 5.0 in the 40? He's playing pretty well in New England, sometimes people (especially us draftniks) tend to overplay what the difference between a MLB at 4.75 and 4.9 truly is, that .15 can easily be made up with instincts in most cases.

brat316
02-29-2012, 09:37 AM
Didn't Brandon Spikes run over 5.0 in the 40? He's playing pretty well in New England, sometimes people (especially us draftniks) tend to overplay what the difference between a MLB at 4.75 and 4.9 truly is, that .15 can easily be made up with instincts in most cases.

yeah, he didn't go in the first. And because of the right coach his weaknesses are hid.

zachsaints52
02-29-2012, 09:42 AM
Didn't Brandon Spikes run over 5.0 in the 40? He's playing pretty well in New England, sometimes people (especially us draftniks) tend to overplay what the difference between a MLB at 4.75 and 4.9 truly is, that .15 can easily be made up with instincts in most cases.

yeah, he didn't go in the first. And because of the right coach his weaknesses are hid.

Pretty much this. He was a 4th rounder iirc.

And everyone knows Vontaze doesnt have the insticts to make up the difference. He gets hyped, lays a big hit, and its suppose to make him amazing.

brat316
02-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Spikes in the second round.

Babylon
02-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Spikes in the second round.

Correct on the second round. I thought Spikes was/is more instinctive as a player. Their 40s are about the same but one guy was a ring leader of a defense the other just a pretender.

As for guys that lost money i think the group consisting of Cliff Harris, Janoris Jenkins and Dre Kirkpatrick may have made some or lost some depending on what came out of their interviews. Probably have to wait till draft day to find out.

brat316
02-29-2012, 11:05 AM
Dre still a Cb or safety?

toonsterwu
02-29-2012, 11:51 AM
Dre still a Cb or safety?

CB to start his career. He is what he is, though. You aren't going to love putting Dre' on an island and having him run verticals all day long, but he's a smart, tough instinctive cornerback.

brat316
02-29-2012, 11:58 AM
Malcolm Jenkins effect then?

steelersrock151
02-29-2012, 12:05 PM
Think Mike Adams lost some money. He didn't have a good rep at the end of the season, but he rocked at the Senior Bowl, and people were jumping him up their draft boards. He proved at the combine that one good game does not a draftee make.

keylime_5
02-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Think Mike Adams lost some money. He didn't have a good rep at the end of the season, but he rocked at the Senior Bowl, and people were jumping him up their draft boards. He proved at the combine that one good game does not a draftee make.

His tape is very good though, so I don't think an average to below average combine will hurt him very much. Offensive linemen aren't affected by workout numbers as much as other positions.

PossibleCabbage
02-29-2012, 12:26 PM
His tape is very good though, so I don't think an average to below average combine will hurt him very much. Offensive linemen aren't affected by workout numbers as much as other positions.

He lost money in the sense that "he's now definitely the #3 OT" whereas before he had a chance at the #2. Not only is Reiff a better athlete, Reiff played better in college.

Martin has a chance to jump him too, if he has a really good pro day.

But Adams is still a first round pick. It would be weird for only 3 OTs to go in the first.

Babylon
02-29-2012, 12:44 PM
Brock Osweiler probably had a chance to come in and wow a team and maybe pull a Joe Flacco in this draft but i think his flame has died a little. I know there is always pro days but i think a lot of teams put less stock in those.

PossibleCabbage
02-29-2012, 01:04 PM
Brock Osweiler probably had a chance to come in and wow a team and maybe pull a Joe Flacco in this draft but i think his flame has died a little. I know there is always pro days but i think a lot of teams put less stock in those.

I don't remember him at the combine at all, did he just opt out?

keylime_5
02-29-2012, 01:07 PM
He lost money in the sense that "he's now definitely the #3 OT" whereas before he had a chance at the #2. Not only is Reiff a better athlete, Reiff played better in college.

Martin has a chance to jump him too, if he has a really good pro day.

But Adams is still a first round pick. It would be weird for only 3 OTs to go in the first.

I think he was the #4 OT going into the combine and is the #4 OT still. Martin gets no love here. He reminds me of Trent Williams (who went #4 overall) who was a ZBS fit with great athleticism despite not having a great senior year. I think Martin will be the 2nd OT drafted when all is said and done....Reiff #3, Adams #4.

Babylon
02-29-2012, 01:23 PM
I don't remember him at the combine at all, did he just opt out?

Some kind of foot sprain. He can probably rehab his stock some before the draft but i think any chance of moving into that first round is gone, if it ever was there.

PossibleCabbage
02-29-2012, 01:32 PM
I think he was the #4 OT going into the combine and is the #4 OT still.

I agree with that. But the way a lot of people were talking, after the Senior Bowl Adams was a lock to be the #2 OT taken with a good combine. He didn't have a good combine, and being the fourth OT taken is really much more consistent with his actual play on the field. Adams can block, but he's way too inconsistent for me to consider taking him ahead of Reiff or Martin. Consistency, to me, is really the single most important thing for offensive tackles, once you establish that they're above the required threshold for technique, strength, and athleticism.

SolidGold
02-29-2012, 01:34 PM
I don't remember him at the combine at all, did he just opt out?

Yea I think so. He said he injured his foot or something like two months ago. It was a really dumb decision on his part...I was disappointed as I thought he was the next guy in line after Tannehill. He could of worked out and really helped his stock. I think he just was taking his agent's advice.