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pappanorm
02-26-2012, 06:43 PM
The Washington Redskins have been rumored to be willing to offer as much as their #1, #2, and number #3 this year, and their #1 next year for the number #2 pick in this year's draft (from St. Louis), for the rights to select Robert Griffin III as their franchise quarterback. If this latest rumor is true then I think that my Browns are in deep doodoo. With Holmgren & Heckert being relatively new to Cleveland, I have no idea how they work or what their thinking could be. The 'Skins owner from what I understand is a gambler out to win. So where does that leave my Brownies?

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 06:48 PM
If the Skins are offering 1, 2, 3, and a future 1 for RG3, then I don't think you try to beat that offer. Go sign/trade for Matt Flynn or something, if you're the Browns.

scottyboy
02-26-2012, 06:49 PM
i think the browns would still be in fine position. Now, I'm no expert on the state of the Browns, but in this scenario they could opt to take Richardson or Blackmon, OR with Claiborne/Kalil there, have a large market to trade down...or pick one of them as Claiborne and Haden would be a ridiculous young and talented CB duo. Wouldn't take Kalil, but would have a good market for him. But again, there'd be a great market for both so the browns could indeed move down. They could also make a strong push for a guy like Matt Flynn in free agency. With picks 22 and 37, they also have a great chance to grab a WR with either of those in such a deep class and another position of need (I'm no expert on the Browns, not sure of their main needs outside of playmakers on O and an upgrade over McCoy). I still think they're in fine shape. As a giants fan, I'd die on the inside seeing RG3 a skin...but if they give up that much than jesus, that might be worth it

fear the elf
02-26-2012, 06:49 PM
It leaves us with Colt McCoy. Yeah, I'd like to have RGIII, but not at the cost of our entire draft. There's just not enough talent on this team to give up that much.

Shane P. Hallam
02-26-2012, 06:50 PM
The Washington Redskins have been rumored to be willing to offer as much as their #1, #2, and number #3 this year, and their #1 next year for the number #2 pick in this year's draft (from St. Louis), for the rights to select Robert Griffin III as their franchise quarterback. If this latest rumor is true then I think that my Browns are in deep doodoo. With Holmgren & Heckert being relatively new to Cleveland, I have no idea how they work or what their thinking could be. The 'Skins owner from what I understand is a gambler out to win. So where does that leave my Brownies?

Do you have any type of link?

bearsfan_51
02-26-2012, 06:50 PM
The 'Skins owner from what I understand is a gambler out to win.
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkmqr3tKnH1qib9dlo1_500.jpg

fear the elf
02-26-2012, 06:53 PM
Yeah, I think scotty hit it. Try to trade back a couple of picks and grab the best WR or maybe even a RT or RG and go after the WR at #22. Grab a Doug Martin/Lamar Miller at #37 and that's not a bad haul.

scottyboy
02-26-2012, 07:00 PM
Yeah, I think scotty hit it. Try to trade back a couple of picks and grab the best WR or maybe even a RT or RG and go after the WR at #22. Grab a Doug Martin/Lamar Miller at #37 and that's not a bad haul.

if you guys move back a bit and come out with something like:
Decastro
Floyd
and Miller/Martin

that's a damn good haul, with a few extra picks scattered in there

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 07:08 PM
Dude isn't trolling. Skins beat reporters and team source 'insiders' have stated that Bruce Allen and the Rams have been in negotiations for the #2 picks for several weeks already and will have a deal in principle before FA starts.

The deal has to be untouchable to prevent late players from getting into the bidding and trumping the SKins offer.

I know my team's owner is a nutcase and believes more money and trading draft picks can buy happiness.
Does Cleveland or Miami's FO feel the same way?

Nothing confirmed, but as they say in the intelligence world, the internet chatter in Redskins land is deafening.

If we hear on draft day that the Rams have traded the #2 pick to the Skins, the deal was done months ago.

The only caveat is that there was the same chatter about the Cutler deal, until it came down to which QB was considered more valuable in a trade to Denver; Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton??

Danny won't get burned like he did on that last deal.
I hope.;)

Clarkw267
02-26-2012, 07:10 PM
I don't think there's any way they can go into next season with Colt McCoy as the starter... unless they draft one of the 2nd tier guys, and have him bridge the gap until the rook is up to speed.

If the Browns came out with

4. Richardson
22. Glenn (As RT to replace Pashos)
37. Tannehill/Osweiler

I think that would be solid.

STsACE
02-26-2012, 07:10 PM
It leaves us with Colt McCoy. Yeah, I'd like to have RGIII, but not at the cost of our entire draft. There's just not enough talent on this team to give up that much.


True. Too many other needs to have to give up that much. I'd think twice though if Indy would take that for Luck.

fear the elf
02-26-2012, 07:36 PM
if you guys move back a bit and come out with something like:
Decastro
Floyd
and Miller/Martin

that's a damn good haul, with a few extra picks scattered in there

I would love that draft.

fap fap fap fap fap

fear the elf
02-26-2012, 07:40 PM
I don't think there's any way they can go into next season with Colt McCoy as the starter... unless they draft one of the 2nd tier guys, and have him bridge the gap until the rook is up to speed.

If the Browns came out with

4. Richardson
22. Glenn (As RT to replace Pashos)
37. Tannehill/Osweiler

I think that would be solid.

Meh, I disagree with your evaluation of Colt. I'm not saying he's a franchise guy or anything, just that he's not as bad as you make him out to be.

Also, I think we are polar opposites in our preference of draft prospects. I do not like your "draft."

kalbears13
02-26-2012, 07:42 PM
I would love that draft.

fap fap fap fap fap

I agree completely. If they were to somehow able to nab Flynn, the Browns would be in great shape.

vidae
02-26-2012, 07:43 PM
I'm surprised the Skins wouldn't go the Manning route first, or at least test the waters before offering this much.

TonyGfortheTD
02-26-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm surprised the Skins wouldn't go the Manning route first, or at least test the waters before offering this much.

This is the Redskins we're talking about though. Nothing should surprise anyone.

J-Mike88
02-26-2012, 08:37 PM
If the Skins are offering 1, 2, 3, and a future 1 for RG3, then I don't think you try to beat that offer. Go sign/trade for Matt Flynn or something, if you're the Browns.
I believe Flynn is destined for Miami and it's been in the cards since Philbin went there.

bruschis4all
02-26-2012, 08:53 PM
I believe Flynn is destined for Miami and it's been in the cards since Philbin went there.

I think Peyton to Miami. Flynn to Cleveland Or Seattle.

brat316
02-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Seattle didn't meet with RGIII. So maybe they want Flynn?

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 09:00 PM
I think Peyton to Miami. Flynn to Cleveland Or Seattle.

I think Peyton Manning and the offense that Joe Philbin will be importing from Green Bay are just a terrible match.

You hire Philbin as your HC because you want to run Mike McCarthy's offense. You bring in Peyton Manning as your QB because you want to run Peyton Manning's offense. They're not especially compatible.

bruschis4all
02-26-2012, 09:11 PM
I think Peyton Manning and the offense that Joe Philbin will be importing from Green Bay are just a terrible match.

You hire Philbin as your HC because you want to run Mike McCarthy's offense. You bring in Peyton Manning as your QB because you want to run Peyton Manning's offense. They're not especially compatible.

That's insulting to Peyton Manning. He can run any offensive co-ordinator's offense. I've seen the Colts spread people out just like GB does. He might be the smartest qb whomever played. And, he can't run Joe Philbin's offense?
Yeah, right.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 09:26 PM
That's insulting to Peyton Manning. He can run any offensive co-ordinator's offense. I've seen the Colts spread people out just like GB does. He might be the smartest qb whomever played. And, he can't run Joe Philbin's offense?
Yeah, right.

Peyton Manning can run any offense he wants, he just doesn't want to learn a new offense in the last few years of his career. Professional quarterbacks aren't dumb, but they don't like to change course midstream (no professional athletes do.) Wherever Peyton Manning goes (and remember they have to sell him on going there, not the other way around), they're going to have to adapt to him, not the other way around.

It's not really different than how when Brett Favre went to the Jets, and the Vikings, those teams more or less abandoned their offensive identity and did what Favre wanted.

Wrathman
02-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Seattle didn't meet with RGIII. So maybe they want Flynn?

General manager John Schneider also said that the team will not over-react at quarterback such as "giving up draft choices to go get somebody" or "guaranteeing somebody a ton of money that you're not quite sure is the guy that's going to get you over the hump."

That tells me they won't pay a ransom to move up in the draft for RG3 and they won't overpay someone who has started two NFL games in a system very different from their own. If teams want to over-pay for Flynn, it appears the Hawks won't be silly enough to go down that path.

bruschis4all
02-26-2012, 09:32 PM
Peyton Manning can run any offense he wants, he just doesn't want to learn a new offense in the last few years of his career. Professional quarterbacks aren't dumb, but they don't like to change course midstream (no professional athletes do.) Wherever Peyton Manning goes (and remember they have to sell him on going there, not the other way around), they're going to have to adapt to him, not the other way around.

It's not really different than how when Brett Favre went to the Jets, and the Vikings, those teams more or less abandoned their offensive identity and did what Favre wanted.


I'd rather have Peyton Manning running his offense with Philbin's assistance than Flynn. Miami hasn't put in that offense yet. Their players don't know it either. Isn't Philbin smart enough to think along with the greatest offensive we've ever seen play qb? And, I'm not a Colts fan in case anyone wants to know.

PoopSandwich
02-26-2012, 09:33 PM
Rams would be dumb to pass that up even if the Browns offer both firsts this year. They need a bunch of talent and can still grab one of the premier players with a top 6 picks.

J-Mike88
02-26-2012, 09:34 PM
Clues?
Am I the only one that knows MOST of what we hear from GMs and scouts at this time of the year is BS?

This is called "The Lying Season" for a reason.
80% of what we hear from these guys this time of year is false, or twisted in some way.

Why would a GM hint at what they desire to do?

Wrathman
02-26-2012, 10:02 PM
Clues?
Am I the only one that knows MOST of what we hear from GMs and scouts at this time of the year is BS?

This is called "The Lying Season" for a reason.
80% of what we hear from these guys this time of year is false, or twisted in some way.

Why would a GM hint at what they desire to do?

Schneider's quotes leave a lot of room for interpretation including the possibility that he could be after RG3 and/or Flynn. I chose to interpret them one way, others may think they mean something else. I do think my interpretation is in alignment with the way the team has been run since Carroll arrived though...which doesn't make me right either.

vidae
02-26-2012, 10:32 PM
You can't believe anything you hear in February or March.

keylime_5
02-26-2012, 10:55 PM
i remember this time in 2006 Matt Leinart was a stone cold LOCK to go #2 overall to New Orleans.

bucfan12
02-26-2012, 11:10 PM
Skins will pull this trade off, unless Cleveland offers both 1st rounds this year. All depends on how far the Rams want to trade down. I think they want to make sure they get Blackmon.

PoopSandwich
02-26-2012, 11:26 PM
Two firsts a 2nd a third and another 2nd > two firsts, pretty sure the Rams aren't idiots.

armageddon
02-27-2012, 12:04 AM
I wonder if this gets done before FA starts ?

pappanorm
02-27-2012, 09:16 AM
Do you have any type of link?

The source of this was Howard Eskin of WIP radio in Philadelphia on Sunday. (citing Redskins sources).

Clarkw267
02-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Meh, I disagree with your evaluation of Colt. I'm not saying he's a franchise guy or anything, just that he's not as bad as you make him out to be.

Also, I think we are polar opposites in our preference of draft prospects. I do not like your "draft."

If I was a Browns fan.. that draft definitely isn't the "sexy" type of draft that is going to get fans super excited, but it's realistic, and would fill big needs.

Richardson is going to be the best player there at #4. Now they could go in a different direction, but I don't see a OT or a WR there that will be worth the pick. And the D prospects there all have question marks with the exception of Claiborne. So if they don't move back I think Trent is the guy.

Glenn is a heck of a fooball player, who showed great athleticism for his size. He can play all across the OL, and profiles well as a RT in the pros. Pashos was awful last year when he played.

I'm not a huge fan of Tannehill or Osweiler, but I just don't see how the Browns can go into this season without some competition at the QB position. Obviously if they sign a FA this would change, but there's no way of knowing that.

onejayhawk
02-27-2012, 11:47 AM
There are three approaches if the Browns want a starting QB out of this draft.
1) Take Tannehill at #4
2) Take Weeden at #36, if available
3) Trade up to the late 1st round to be certain of Weeden.

J

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm sure it's been noted (too lazy to check), but the Browns can match a Redskins 1/2/3 package this year and a 1/2 next year (although the rumors I thought were being bandied around were more 1/2/3 this year and 1 + players) without giving up as much picks, as it pertains to generic perceptions on value (I still think people take the trade value chart too strictly, teams have always adjusted things, either on paper or in their minds, to rationalize deals) due to their 2nd first.

That said, if the price gets way too high, I think the best move is to go after a vet QB (if they don't believe in McCoy enough), and draft someone in the 2nd round. They are a step behind the Redskins in the rebuilding process, in terms of talent, so it might be more beneficial to keep the picks around.

Of course, if you truly believe in the QB to be elite, the cost would definitely be worth it.

bitonti
02-27-2012, 04:10 PM
good article in philly.com that said the Eagles might be the secret team in the RG3 sweepstakes

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/140518133.html

makes sense on alot of levels.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 04:14 PM
That's the rumors on 97.5 in Philly when I passed by Philly the other day (although Schwartzman? made it sound like more of a fan rumor than a legitimate rumor). Not sure I buy it, though. They'd have to offer 2 arms and more to make that deal, and they would definitely need to send young talent. Just not sure they have the fuel to make the trade.

vidae
02-27-2012, 04:15 PM
They just gave Michael Vick a $100m contract, so now they're going to trade up to #2 with less firepower than other teams to draft another QB when they have needs all over their team?

It doesn't make as much sense to me as it does to you.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 04:19 PM
well, I think they can get out of the Vick deal in a year. Too lazy to check right now, but someone can rotoworld that.

Bigger issue is still the lack of chips to legitimately make this move. The Rams are likely going to want a guy they view as an impact player out of this draft, so to get them budge so far down would mean a package that's just insane. I mean, we're talking about a Ricky Williams type deal and more, probably. Just don't see it (unless they, say, offer McCoy up in some fashion).

vidae
02-27-2012, 04:20 PM
I don't disagree, but at what point are you cutting off your nose to spite your face? A rookie QB is going to need pieces around him to succeed, and giving up a player like McCoy would be a big mistake. He'd be such a huge asset to a rookie in that situation.

toonsterwu
02-27-2012, 04:25 PM
well ... the cynical argument would be that Andy Reid wastes RB's anyways ...

That said, I think this is more wishful thinking by some Philly fans. I'm mildly surprised the Redskins seem all-in on Griffin III (although it's interesting to note that Shanahan is a fairly tight-lipped/tight ship guy when it comes to the draft, and the one QB name you don't hear associated with them as much is Tannehill ... ), and I think Cleveland giving a slightly decreased package may be more appealing to the Rams than some sort of mega-package from the Eagles (when comparing generic values) due to the Browns draft positioning. Beyond the, there's just too many teams with QB needs before Philly. If RG3 somehow fell (I doubt it), I think even Buffalo would investigate.

keylime_5
02-27-2012, 04:33 PM
reasons why the eagles makes no sense for Griffin:

-they just handed out all these contracts to players in their prime (Babin, Nnamdi, DRC, Jenkins, etc.) because they CLEARLY are trying to make a super bowl run and win NOW.

-Andy Reid is the guy who picks the players...and he is on the hotseat after last year's colossal disappointment.....you really think he's gonna bring in a rookie QB when he has to win this year?

-Michael Vick, the $100M man......who btw is just a year removed from an amazing, MVP worthy season.

-the team picks 15th.........they would have to give up Ricky Williams type compensation to outbid the other contenders for RG3.

this is just stupid wishful thinking by some in the Philadelphia media.





I can see Buffalo, Arizona, Kansas City.....even Denver being the "mystery teams" but not Philly.

Caulibflower
02-27-2012, 04:39 PM
if you guys move back a bit and come out with something like:
Decastro
Floyd
and Miller/Martin

that's a damn good haul, with a few extra picks scattered in there

This is what I'm thinking. If you're the Browns and that's the package you're having to compete with trying to trade for the pick, the value you're giving up seems to be greater than the difference between Colt McCoyand Robert Griffin. Griffin's waaaaaay sexier, but McCoy's a young QB still. He had a sophomore slump with Peyton Hillis failing to come close to replicating his success from the year before. This will be his make-or-break year. And remember, this is Mike Holmgren's project; he's got a good record of bringing in talent. If the Browns don't make a move for Griffin, they could still end up with something like Claiborne or a stud lineman, Malcolm Floyd and then another running back like you said, LaMar Miller or Doug Martin (...Turbin?) to compete with and/or spell Peyton Hillis. Then if Colt McCoy can't get it done with Greg Little and Malcolm Floyd on the outside and a couple of legit runners in the backfield (And who knows how good Montario Hardesty would be if he could stay healthy), THEN you go and draft a Matt Barkley or somebody, and your offense is already stacked and ready to go. Not to mention the possible Claiborne/Haden secondary you mentioned. Or maybe they even take Kuechly or something.

DeepThreat
02-27-2012, 04:54 PM
This is what I'm thinking. If you're the Browns and that's the package you're having to compete with trying to trade for the pick, the value you're giving up seems to be greater than the difference between Colt McCoyand Robert Griffin. Griffin's waaaaaay sexier, but McCoy's a young QB still. He had a sophomore slump with Peyton Hillis failing to come close to replicating his success from the year before. This will be his make-or-break year. And remember, this is Mike Holmgren's project; he's got a good record of bringing in talent. If the Browns don't make a move for Griffin, they could still end up with something like Claiborne or a stud lineman, Malcolm Floyd and then another running back like you said, LaMar Miller or Doug Martin (...Turbin?) to compete with and/or spell Peyton Hillis. Then if Colt McCoy can't get it done with Greg Little and Malcolm Floyd on the outside and a couple of legit runners in the backfield (And who knows how good Montario Hardesty would be if he could stay healthy), THEN you go and draft a Matt Barkley or somebody, and your offense is already stacked and ready to go. Not to mention the possible Claiborne/Haden secondary you mentioned. Or maybe they even take Kuechly or something.

There is just one problem with this argument.

Colt McCoy is beyond terrible and needs upgraded immediately.

(And it's Michael Floyd)

bitonti
02-27-2012, 05:14 PM
-the team picks 15th.........they would have to give up Ricky Williams type compensation to outbid the other contenders for RG3.



that assumes that all the Redskins mortgaging everything stories are real. I don't know if I believe Bruce Allen will bless Snyder trading away everything. Eagles have 2 second round picks, those plus the 1st rounder is a decent starting bid. maybe they throw in a defender like Trent Cole.

One reason I like this rumor is cause let's be real the Eagles aren't drafting an inside linebacker in rd1. it's just not gonna happen. Why? Cause they are the Eagles.

Caulibflower
02-27-2012, 05:23 PM
There is just one problem with this argument.

Colt McCoy is beyond terrible and needs upgraded immediately.

(And it's Michael Floyd)

He sure wasn't good last year, but Cleveland had problems throughout its offense. The running game fell apart and defenses didn't have to take it seriously, and his no. 1 wideout was a rookie, and a raw one at that. And you're talking about a second-year QB who doesn't have outstanding physical traits, but can make things happen with talent around him. I won't write off Colt yet, because I think he can have success in a team that's efficient and executes well. Kind of to the NFL what Kellen Moore was to college football. But I'll readily concede that if last year was what you're basing your opinion of Colt McCoy on, there's not a lot to be excited about.

SuperPacker
02-27-2012, 05:28 PM
Robert Griffin would look too good in a Browns uniform to go to the Redskins!

GRIFFIN TO CLEVELAND!!!

Iamcanadian
02-27-2012, 05:53 PM
The Browns are in the driver's seat no matter what Washington, Miami or Seattle do. With the 4th pick, St. Louis can still get Blackmon after Minny takes Kalil. if they trade further back, Blackmon will likely be taken by Cleveland and St. Louis will be left empty handed.
If Cleveland wants to pay the price, there is no way Washington can outbid them.
I fully expect RG111 to be wearing a Cleveland uniform next season.

keylime_5
02-27-2012, 05:58 PM
You are a little more optomistic than me (which might be a first, haha), because I think the combination of Shannahan and Snyder is going to result in some crazy compensation that Holmgren/Heckert won't match. Blackmon might run a bad time and could drop down draft boards - but hoping that Blackmon lights it up is good for the Browns in any case, whether it be to make St.Louis fall in love with him or in the event that the Browns take him.

SolidGold
02-27-2012, 06:08 PM
A lot of it is going to depend on Flynn/Manning. Both Cleveland and Miami have been linked to Flynn and Manning to the Redskins talk has been going on for the past few weeks.

I can't see the Redskins mortgaging the next two drafts for one player, they have been doing a good job building through the draft. I don't think Shannahan could survive another bad season so gambling on a rookie QB to come in right away and lead them to the playoffs would be a big risk.

fear the elf
02-27-2012, 07:31 PM
He sure wasn't good last year, but Cleveland had problems throughout its offense. The running game fell apart and defenses didn't have to take it seriously, and his no. 1 wideout was a rookie, and a raw one at that. And you're talking about a second-year QB who doesn't have outstanding physical traits, but can make things happen with talent around him. I won't write off Colt yet, because I think he can have success in a team that's efficient and executes well. Kind of to the NFL what Kellen Moore was to college football. But I'll readily concede that if last year was what you're basing your opinion of Colt McCoy on, there's not a lot to be excited about.

This is pretty much how I feel. Colt did pretty much nothing to convince anyone last year, but traditionally QB's take time to develop and he was a 3rd Rd. pick for a reason.

I'd rather not give up what looks to be at least 3 top 40 picks and maybe more just to put a rookie in the same ****** situation.

fear the elf
02-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Also, just look at the main "contributors" to this offense last year. I can't imagine RGIII doing significantly better with this supporting cast.

Greg Little - was raw and a year removed from football
Josh Cribbs - jack of all trades, probably an OK slot guy
Ben Watson - pretty decent when not concussed
Hillis/Hardesty/Ogbonnaya - Chris ******* Ogbonnaya was the best of the three last year
OL - Thomas, Mack, and three other guys not worth a ****

PoopSandwich
02-27-2012, 07:35 PM
You are a little more optomistic than me (which might be a first, haha), because I think the combination of Shannahan and Snyder is going to result in some crazy compensation that Holmgren/Heckert won't match. Blackmon might run a bad time and could drop down draft boards - but hoping that Blackmon lights it up is good for the Browns in any case, whether it be to make St.Louis fall in love with him or in the event that the Browns take him.

This is how I feel. I think Washington is going to put some ridiculous package together to get him, while Holmgren and Heckertt are smarted than mortgaging an entire future for one player.

I think the limit I would pay for the 2nd pick would be both firsts and a third next year with maybe a super late pick this year... Too hard to rationalize giving up anything more.

PhillyBirds25
02-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Eagles trade: 1st, 2nd, 2nd(Ari), 4th, 6th, 2013 1st and 2013 4th for #2 overall and RG3!

CHAMPIONSHIP!

bearsfan_51
02-27-2012, 08:50 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Colt did pretty much nothing to convince anyone last year, but traditionally QB's take time to develop and he was a 3rd Rd. pick for a reason.

I'd rather not give up what looks to be at least 3 top 40 picks and maybe more just to put a rookie in the same ****** situation.
The Browns will never be anything until they replace McCoy. I probably wouldn't give up 3 picks either, but I wouldn't blame them if they did. They have nothing at QB.

Rabscuttle
02-27-2012, 08:53 PM
Eagles trade: 1st, 2nd, 2nd(Ari), 4th, 6th, 2013 1st and 2013 4th for #2 overall and RG3!

CHAMPIONSHIP!

Trading away those picks also frees up cap room for the team to buy a set.

fear the elf
02-28-2012, 08:27 AM
The Browns will never be anything until they replace McCoy. I probably wouldn't give up 3 picks either, but I wouldn't blame them if they did. They have nothing at QB.

They could get to 8-8 with all of those picks!!!11! At this point, I'd take that!

But seriously, I'd rather get the talent at other positions now and pay the King's ransom for a QB next year. That's just how I prefer to build a team. Create a good situation, place a QB in said good situation, watch him thrive. I know some people don't agree with that philosophy, but it's so simple really ;)