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thule
02-28-2012, 03:25 PM
Last combine this article came out on nfl.com and I think it's a fairly accurate way to look at past and future prospects.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ecd9a3&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this. But how does Melvin Ingram Stack up against Ware and Spencer and the position

40-yard dash Speed over distance
Target - 4.70
Ware - 4.56
Spencer - 4.70
Ingram - 4.79

225-pound bench press reps Upper body strength
Target - 23
Ware - 27
Spencer - 30
Ingram - 28

Vertical jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 36
Ware - 38.5
Spencer - 32.5
Ingram - 34.5

Broad jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 9-9
Ware - 10-2
Spencer - 9-4
Ingram - 9-1

20-yard shuttle Flexibility, burst, balance
Target- 4.10
Ware - 4.07
Spencer - 4.43
Ingram - 4.18

3-cone drill Agility, change of direction
Target- 7.10
Ware - 6.85
Spencer - 7.14
Ingram - 6.83


Using just the numbers. I think it's safe to say Ingram offers more agility and change of direction over spencer and spencer has him in straightline speed and strength.

To me I'd lean for a little more quickness and agillity out of a rusher I think because think about how many times spencer has been just a milisecond late....with that extra agility maybe those are sacks.

D-Unit
02-28-2012, 03:32 PM
I did a study of DE combine numbers since 2005 last night. Nobody came even close to grading out the way Ware graded out. He really was a marvel.

thule
02-28-2012, 04:01 PM
Who blew up the combine? I'm looking at Bruce Irvin...top in his group in almost every catagory. Reached the target in everything but vertical jump.

Combine Measurements
Demarcus Ware - 6-4 251
Bruce Irvin - 6'3 245

40-yard dash Speed over distance
Target - 4.70
Ware - 4.56
Bruce Irvin - 4.50

225-pound bench press reps Upper body strength
Target - 23
Ware - 27
Bruce Irvin - 23

Vertical jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 36
Ware - 38.5
Bruce Irvin - 33.5

Broad jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 9-9
Ware - 10-2
Bruce Irvin - 10-3

20-yard shuttle Flexibility, burst, balance
Target- 4.10
Ware - 4.07
Bruce Irvin - 4.03

3-cone drill Agility, change of direction
Target- 7.10
Ware - 6.85
Bruce Irvin - 6.70


Give Irvin a year under a strength coach and I think you can add more to his lower half. His weak point was his vert and I have a feeling it was because he needs to add more strength to his lower half. He's a twitch athlete like Ware but he's not quite as strong or as far along. This is my darkhorse.

leroyisgod
02-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Who blew up the combine? I'm looking at Bruce Irvin...top in his group in almost every catagory. Reached the target in everything but vertical jump.

Combine Measurements
Demarcus Ware - 6-4 251
Bruce Irvin - 6'3 245

40-yard dash Speed over distance
Target - 4.70
Ware - 4.56
Bruce Irvin - 4.50

225-pound bench press reps Upper body strength
Target - 23
Ware - 27
Bruce Irvin - 23

Vertical jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 36
Ware - 38.5
Bruce Irvin - 33.5

Broad jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 9-9
Ware - 10-2
Bruce Irvin - 10-3

20-yard shuttle Flexibility, burst, balance
Target- 4.10
Ware - 4.07
Bruce Irvin - 4.03

3-cone drill Agility, change of direction
Target- 7.10
Ware - 6.85
Bruce Irvin - 6.70


Give Irvin a year under a strength coach and I think you can add more to his lower half. His weak point was his vert and I have a feeling it was because he needs to add more strength to his lower half. He's a twitch athlete like Ware but he's not quite as strong or as far along. This is my darkhorse.

Gotta love a Mountie

E-Man
02-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Damn those Irvin numbers are off the charts! I really like Ingram though. Right now I'm favoring Decastro over him, but I'd be very happy with Ingram as well.

leroyisgod
02-28-2012, 05:38 PM
I'd love me some Irvin in the 3rd round.

CDCB14
02-28-2012, 06:07 PM
Who blew up the combine? I'm looking at Bruce Irvin...top in his group in almost every catagory. Reached the target in everything but vertical jump.

Combine Measurements
Demarcus Ware - 6-4 251
Bruce Irvin - 6'3 245

40-yard dash Speed over distance
Target - 4.70
Ware - 4.56
Bruce Irvin - 4.50

225-pound bench press reps Upper body strength
Target - 23
Ware - 27
Bruce Irvin - 23

Vertical jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 36
Ware - 38.5
Bruce Irvin - 33.5

Broad jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 9-9
Ware - 10-2
Bruce Irvin - 10-3

20-yard shuttle Flexibility, burst, balance
Target- 4.10
Ware - 4.07
Bruce Irvin - 4.03

3-cone drill Agility, change of direction
Target- 7.10
Ware - 6.85
Bruce Irvin - 6.70


Give Irvin a year under a strength coach and I think you can add more to his lower half. His weak point was his vert and I have a feeling it was because he needs to add more strength to his lower half. He's a twitch athlete like Ware but he's not quite as strong or as far along. This is my darkhorse.

I wouldn't mind picking Irvin to be our successor for Ware. People need to remember Ware is turning 30. He won't be around forever. Irvin is not going to be a strong side linebacker. Let him learn from Ware to be our weak side 'backer of the future. He'd be a hell of a 3rd rounder if he's there. Throw him on the field on 3rd and long and just let him use his athleticism until he develops into a complete player.

TheFinisher
02-28-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't think Irvin will be there in the 3rd although if I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time. I think our 2nd would be more of a realistic landing spot, he's a tough guy to scout because he was just a terrible fit in WVU's defense. His speed rush off the edge is pretty undeniable though and even if that's all you can do that still carries some legit value.

I was more pleased with his weigh-in than his test numbers, 6-3 245 is pretty ideal for a standup LB and should ease some of the concerns about him holding up at the POA. I think most expected him to weigh in closer to 230.

D-Unit
02-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Irvin did flash some fancy stuff at the combine. I'm still a little standoffish about him, but I can see the potential. There are other guys I prefer in Rounds 2-3 though.

E-Man
02-28-2012, 08:01 PM
What type of defense did WVU play?

thule
02-29-2012, 11:11 AM
What type of defense did WVU play?

3-3-5 was their base set

Trogdor
02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
If you are a fan of using targets for drafting as well as tape (I am) another guy you have to look at is...

Jake Bequette. Seems our initial interviewing/scouting is on the money. He hit every mark and after he does his bench he could join Ingram as a "4 mark guy". SackSEER certainly isn't infallible but I love the correlation between high marks and NFL production.

27 reps and he'd hit all the marks.

SackSEER’s other workout metric is the short shuttle run. The drill measures change-of-direction speed, burst, and hip flexibility, which are understandably important to rushing the passer. DeMarcus Ware had a jaw-dropping short shuttle of 4.07 seconds, Aaron Schobel ran the shuttle in 4.03 seconds, and Kyle Vanden Bosch ran the shuttle in 4.08 seconds. No elite edge rusher has emerged from any round of the NFL Draft since at least 1999 with a short shuttle slower than 4.42 seconds.

Important to note. Bequette ran the exact same time in the short shuttle. His 4.82 may not be impressive but timing only JUST behind Irvin for the top time in the short shuttle AND 3 cone speaks to his ability to move.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/2/28/2830352/2012-nfl-combine-outside-linebacker-prospects-under-the-microscope

D-Unit
02-29-2012, 12:27 PM
If you're looking at measurables, Nick Perry joins the conversation.

I just don't like him a lot because he'll get 3 sacks one game and then disappear for the next 4 games. He might do better in the NFL than he did in college though, so I'd hate to completely write him off. He does show up big in big games.

D-Unit
02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
If you are a fan of using targets for drafting as well as tape (I am) another guy you have to look at is...

Jake Bequette. Seems our initial interviewing/scouting is on the money. He hit every mark and after he does his bench he could join Ingram as a "4 mark guy". SackSEER certainly isn't infallible but I love the correlation between high marks and NFL production.

27 reps and he'd hit all the marks.



Important to note. Bequette ran the exact same time in the short shuttle. His 4.82 may not be impressive but timing only JUST behind Irvin for the top time in the short shuttle AND 3 cone speaks to his ability to move.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/2/28/2830352/2012-nfl-combine-outside-linebacker-prospects-under-the-microscope
I think he's going to be a steal if he lasts where these mock drafters are rating him (Round 5).

thule
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
Perry came out and said he would prefer to play in a 4-3 defense. Not saying he wouldn't play for the 3-4 but he really looked stiff in the position drills to me...not fluid and COD wasn't that good either.

Trogdor
02-29-2012, 03:20 PM
Perry came out and said he would prefer to play in a 4-3 defense. Not saying he wouldn't play for the 3-4 but he really looked stiff in the position drills to me...not fluid and COD wasn't that good either.

Perry runs fast in a straight line. He scares me to death in a 3-4.

No elite edge rusher has emerged from any round of the NFL Draft since at least 1999 with a short shuttle slower than 4.42 seconds.

Perry's time? 4.66.

smith22
03-10-2012, 06:30 AM
Perry came out and said he would prefer to play in a 4-3 defense. Not saying he wouldn't play for the 3-4 but he really looked stiff in the position drills to me...not fluid and COD wasn't that good either.

While watching Path to the Draft, they said he seemed stiff/uncomfortable and more of a 4-3 type guy.

thule
03-20-2012, 08:37 PM
Might as well add Mercilus to this list since I think we might be targeting him.

40-yard dash Speed over distance
Target - 4.70
Ware - 4.56
Spencer - 4.70
Ingram - 4.79
Mercilus - 4.68

225-pound bench press reps Upper body strength
Target - 23
Ware - 27
Spencer - 30
Ingram - 28
Mercilus - 27

Vertical jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 36
Ware - 38.5
Spencer - 32.5
Ingram - 34.5
Mercilus - 32

Broad jump Explosiveness, leg strength
Target- 9-9
Ware - 10-2
Spencer - 9-4
Ingram - 9-1
Mercilus - 9-10

20-yard shuttle Flexibility, burst, balance
Target- 4.10
Ware - 4.07
Spencer - 4.43
Ingram - 4.18
Mercilus - 4.46

3-cone drill Agility, change of direction
Target- 7.10
Ware - 6.85
Spencer - 7.14
Ingram - 6.83
Mercilus - 7.04

When I look at just the numbers and how his numbers stack up against the others I see a couple of things that stick out.

He rated above the target in the 40, bench, broad, 3-cone.
He rated below the target in the vert and 20 yard shuttle.

One NFL person, however, told us that after Tuesday's workout there's "no doubt that he can play upright as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme."

Mercilus showed excellent conditioning through a grueling defensive line drill. During linebacker drills, he "picked up coaching well," according to an NFL source, which eases concerns about him making the switch to linebacker.

Another NFL person told us that Mercilus "worked out like a first-round pick today.”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-03-06/nfl-draft-2012-whitney-mercilus-illinois#ixzz1pi9K6vUT

He's a guy who is actually probably a little more suited for the strong side imo. Much like Aldon was last year.

But that said I think you can see why Ingram is the higher rated rusher and will be taken higher on draft day. He has that sack artist quickness...Mercilus will stack the edge and chase more plays down on the strong side. I think this is why dallas might target him over some of the other rushers.

D-Unit
03-20-2012, 08:40 PM
Love Mercilus. Would make me very happy on draft day if we drafted him at 14.

CDCB would probably dig a grave though.

leroyisgod
03-21-2012, 07:14 AM
Love Mercilus. Would make me very happy on draft day if we drafted him at 14.

CDCB would probably dig a grave though.

I'm just afraid he was a one hit wonder.