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Jimmy
03-09-2012, 04:49 PM
Source says Colts have terminated contracts of Gary Brackett, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, and Melvin Bullitt.

more moves from Colts expected soon.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ianapolis-too/

edit: http://www.indystar.com/article/20120309/SPORTS03/203090373/Indianapolis-Colts-cut-Brackett-Addai-Clark-and-Bullitt?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPA GE

SuperPacker
03-09-2012, 04:50 PM
Free Agency Thread (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48083&page=292)

descendency
03-09-2012, 05:01 PM
They should just ask the league to give them an SEC team and let them take their starters.

VernonLawson89
03-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Poor Andrew Luck

SuperPacker
03-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Poor Andrew Luck

he'll probably end up pulling an eli an refusing to go to indy. that would be funny :lol:

falloutboy14
03-09-2012, 05:12 PM
Hopefully they can get him an offensive line in the draft. If they can run the ball well (they did last year) he should be able to survive. That said, Colts are going to have a ton of money to spend next off-season.

Sloopy
03-09-2012, 05:15 PM
Hopefully they can get him an offensive line in the draft. If they can run the ball well (they did last year) he should be able to survive. That said, Colts are going to have a ton of money to spend next off-season.

I think a lot of draft picks will need to be used to acquire peaces for that new defensive scheme.

Although this certainly doesn't help the situation.

SolidGold
03-09-2012, 05:19 PM
Fleener might be following Luck to Indy to be his safety valve at the top of round 2

SuperPacker
03-09-2012, 05:23 PM
Fleener might be following Luck to Indy to be his safety valve at the top of round 2

this is now my 4th wish for the offseason.

FUNBUNCHER
03-09-2012, 08:09 PM
I thought the Colts LIKED Andrew Luck??lol

I see a rough rookie season ahead for the 'franchise'.

Philliez01
03-09-2012, 08:20 PM
This makes me sad.

Ness
03-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Well, it was a good run for the Colts.

descendency
03-09-2012, 08:37 PM
he'll probably end up pulling an eli an refusing to go to indy. that would be funny :lol:

The colts should have signed him before they made these cuts...

killxswitch
03-09-2012, 08:41 PM
If you look at it rationally, these cuts make a ton of sense and don't hurt Luck at all.

Bracket - old, slow, small, and already replaced by Pat Angerer. Massively overpaid. Terrible contract by Bill Polian.

Clark - completely crumbled when Manning didn't play. Dropped every 3rd pass that hit him in the hands. He is a Manning creation. Both Wayne and Garcon stepped up and had 900+ yard seasons. Clark was pathetic, he's over 30, he can't block, and he's gotten hurt a lot. No big loss.

Addai - Lots of wear and tear, not fast, and his knowledge of the Manning offense was his best trait. Overpaid. I like him, he is the toughest loss, but he's a RB. He's replaceable.

Bullitt - Has a glass shoulder and he should've never been paid starter money. Another zero-impact cut.

Meanwhile these cuts free up $25 million in new cap space for 2013.

ShutDwn
03-09-2012, 08:59 PM
If you look at it rationally, these cuts make a ton of sense and don't hurt Luck at all.

Bracket - old, slow, small, and already replaced by Pat Angerer. Massively overpaid. Terrible contract by Bill Polian.

Clark - completely crumbled when Manning didn't play. Dropped every 3rd pass that hit him in the hands. He is a Manning creation. Both Wayne and Garcon stepped up and had 900+ yard seasons. Clark was pathetic, he's over 30, he can't block, and he's gotten hurt a lot. No big loss.

Addai - Lots of wear and tear, not fast, and his knowledge of the Manning offense was his best trait. Overpaid. I like him, he is the toughest loss, but he's a RB. He's replaceable.

Bullitt - Has a glass shoulder and he should've never been paid starter money. Another zero-impact cut.

Meanwhile these cuts free up $25 million in new cap space for 2013.

The biggest hit is lossing leadership, but with a rebuilding team I think it can be good to cut ties with some guys to let new leadership grow. I hope the Colts develop a new attitude and this is a good first step.

Hurricanes25
03-09-2012, 09:20 PM
I agree with killxswitch. They opened up a ton of cap space and I don't think they lost much at all. They got rid of a lot of dead weight.

BradysKnee
03-09-2012, 09:44 PM
I agree with killxswitch. They opened up a ton of cap space and I don't think they lost much at all. They got rid of a lot of dead weight.

Yea he's right. Good moves IMO.

niel89
03-09-2012, 11:17 PM
The biggest hit is lossing leadership, but with a rebuilding team I think it can be good to cut ties with some guys to let new leadership grow. I hope the Colts develop a new attitude and this is a good first step.

Good call. As long as they have younger guys that can step up to the leadership roles then these were fine moves. Not having some locker room leaders really hurts a team and can leave them directionless, especially when they are losing a bunch (which the Colts will be for the next year or two.)

zachsaints52
03-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Killxswitch hit the nail on the head. Luck isn't losing much.

They still have Saturday, right?

vidae
03-09-2012, 11:29 PM
I thought Saturday was a FA.

zachsaints52
03-09-2012, 11:30 PM
I thought Saturday was a FA.

If so.... this could be really bad. If your relying on your two DE/OLBS(?) and Diem (he still there?) to be the only locker room leaders, somethings gonna happen

niel89
03-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Killxswitch hit the nail on the head. Luck isn't losing much.

They still have Saturday, right?

I'm pretty sure Saturday is a FA and/or might retire.

Looking at the Colts offensive depth chart, I see Castonzo and that's about it. I don't know about any of the other OL, but there isn't anything at WR, TE, or RB of note. The offense is almost nonexistent.

Luck will just grow another gnarly neck beard that lead the team.

zachsaints52
03-09-2012, 11:36 PM
I'm pretty sure Saturday is a FA and/or might retire.

Looking at the Colts offensive depth chart, I see Castonzo and that's about it. I don't know about any of the other OL, but there isn't anything at WR, TE, or RB of note. The offense is almost nonexistent.

Luck will just grow another gnarly neck beard that lead the team.

I know Mike Pollack is there too, and that guy from Tennessee with the long last name.

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 02:53 AM
I'm pretty sure Saturday is a FA and/or might retire.

Looking at the Colts offensive depth chart, I see Castonzo and that's about it. I don't know about any of the other OL, but there isn't anything at WR, TE, or RB of note. The offense is almost nonexistent.

Luck will just grow another gnarly neck beard that lead the team.

Well Ijialana is there and will probably play G or T along with Diem probably playing G.

Jacob Tamme can be a legitimate target at TE

Anthony Gonzo and Austin Collie aren't too reliable as far as injuries go, but they are there at WR

RB we have Darren Evans who showed promise along with Delone Carter and Donald Brown. I really don't like Brown, but you go with what you got.

With that said I wouldn't be surprised to see us use our early picks on D and look for competent people to fill in this season at WR, Oline, and use RB committee.

TitanHope
03-10-2012, 04:10 AM
The Colts' entire starting lineup went 2-14 last season, so the thread title should be read as a positive thing. Even with Luck, the Colts don't have much of an immediate future with these players (not that they really have one without them). But, the light is down the tunnel 3-4 years from now, so if they cut the vet waste, make improvements responsibly through FA, and draft talented players who can grow with and around Luck, they can make the run at that point. Although, their re-signing of Robert Mathis probably doesn't fall into the middle of that, but hey, you should always re-sign your good players and by the time they hit that 3-4 year mark, the cap increase and TV money will be hitting.

Jvig43
03-10-2012, 04:13 AM
Cuts entire starting lineup

Franchises 31 year old Mathis.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 04:34 AM
The question of who would win Alabama or Indianapolis doesnt seem to crazy now. The Colts will basically have a rookies and scrubs on the field in most positions. The only good players they'll have is Bethea, Mathis, Angerer and Luck.

asdf1223
03-10-2012, 05:29 AM
I think Mathis already signed a 4yr/32 million extension if I am not mistaken.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 05:38 AM
I think Mathis already signed a 4yr/32 million extension if I am not mistaken.

Which is why i said one of the only good players they'll have is Mathis...

Leo
03-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Brackett:
Savings of $0.2MM to the 2012 cap
Savings of $9MM to the 2013 cap
Savings of $9MM to the 2014 cap

Bullitt:
Savings of $1.065MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $3.735MM to 2013 cap

Clark:
Savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Addai:
Savings of $1.04MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $4.93MM to 2013 cap

Painter:
Savings of $0.565MM to 2012 cap

If Freeney is cut or traded they save $14.035MM to the 2012 cap.

Even though it's tough for Colts fans, especially post-Manning, cutting those players was the right thing to do, crucial really.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 10:58 AM
The Colts have to be the worst run franchise in the league if this off season is any example. If I was Luck, I'd refuse to sign with them ad normally I hate QB's who do this, but come on, do they even care to win, doesn't look like it and Luck is goping to get killed playing for them.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 11:00 AM
Just saw on Sportscenter that Diem is a FA as well.

So your hwole leadership falls on basically Robert Mathis, who will probably have a down year trying to figure out how to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme.

Hmmmmmm.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:01 AM
Brackett:
Savings of $0.2MM to the 2012 cap
Savings of $9MM to the 2013 cap
Savings of $9MM to the 2014 cap

Bullitt:
Savings of $1.065MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $3.735MM to 2013 cap

Clark:
Savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Addai:
Savings of $1.04MM to 2012 cap
Savings of $4.93MM to 2013 cap

Painter:
Savings of $0.565MM to 2012 cap

If Freeney is cut or traded they save $14.035MM to the 2012 cap.

Even though it's tough for Colts fans, especially post-Manning, cutting those players was the right thing to do, crucial really.

Yeah, if yop are in a 10 to 15 year rebuilding mode. If I was Luck, I'd insist on a trade because this team doesn't want to win. I really feel sorry for Indy fans because when they got rid of Polian, this franchise looks headed for the cross.

prock
03-10-2012, 11:02 AM
Yeah, if yop are in a 10 to 15 year rebuilding mode. If I was Luck, I'd insist on a trade because this team doesn't want to win. I really feel sorry for Indy fans because when they got rid of Polian, this franchise looks headed for the cross.

Well, every move they have made thus far has been a smart one. They cleared up a lot of cap space and didn't really lose anyone of much value at all.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:11 AM
Well, every move they have made thus far has been a smart one. They cleared up a lot of cap space and didn't really lose anyone of much value at all.

And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 11:13 AM
And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

Oh no the Colts released a load of players no one will want becasue their either past it or no good. How could they?!

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah, if yop are in a 10 to 15 year rebuilding mode. If I was Luck, I'd insist on a trade because this team doesn't want to win. I really feel sorry for Indy fans because when they got rid of Polian, this franchise looks headed for the cross.

And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

You say the Packers, but if you noticed other teams (Saints, Patriots, Falcons,Jets,) all got some of their main players in Free Agency.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Oh no the Colts released a load of players no one will want becasue their either past it or no good. How could they?!

You do realize how many players the Colts have lost and they aren't all past it or no good????

You tell me where do you find 15 starters in 5 months???

Would you want to be an Indy fan?????

Will Luck survive physically with no OL, no WR's, no TE and no defense????

It is going to be very ugly and a disgrace for Indy fans and the NFL, especially if Luck gets a serious injury.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 11:29 AM
You do realize how many players the Colts have lost and they aren't all past it or no good????

You tell me where do you find 15 starters in 5 months???

Would you want to be an Indy fan?????

Will Luck survive physically with no OL, no WR's, no TE and no defense????

It is going to be very ugly and a disgrace for Indy fans and the NFL.

Find starters in FA and Draft, and a couple that was backups (Pat Angrerer comes to mind)

If I was a true Indy fan before, I'd still be a Indy fan....

You do realize they still have other picks this year, in a solid 2-4th round WR group and OT group?

How is it a disgrace? Someone always has to lose a game, not all teams can go 8-8 and it be even.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:39 AM
Find starters in FA and Draft, and a couple that was backups (Pat Angrerer comes to mind)

If I was a true Indy fan before, I'd still be a Indy fan....

You do realize they still have other picks this year, in a solid 2-4th round WR group and OT group?

How is it a disgrace? Someone always has to lose a game, not all teams can go 8-8 and it be even.

The draft is a crapshoot and the best of teams find 3 starters a draft, many of whom take a year or 2 to fully develop into starters. Indy will need to be perfect with no flops just to get back to 8 wins in 4 years. One or 2 slips and it could easily turn into a decade especially considering their GM is inexperienced and learning on the job.

FA is a place where smart teaqms add the final pieces to the puzzle, you cannot build a team through FA. Besides what decent FA's will want to sign with Indy, a team going nowhere.

Just be glad you are not an Indy fan because this mess could take a decade to correct.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 11:42 AM
The draft is a crapshoot and the best of teams find 3 starters a draft, many of whom take a year or 2 to fully develop into starters. Indy will need to be perfect with no flops just to get back to 8 wins in 4 years. One or 2 slips and it could easily turn into a decade especially considering their GM is inexperienced and learning on the job.

FA is a place where smart teaqms add the final pieces to the puzzle, you cannot build a team through FA. Besides what decent FA's will want to sign with Indy, a team going nowhere.

Just be glad you are not an Indy fan because this mess could take a decade to correct.

So the Bucs who won 10 games 2 years ago who did a complete overhaul was just luck I guess.

Everythings a crapshoot when it comes to the NFL. A player can regress, or go to a new system and suck (Jason David).... To say it will be a 10 year rebuilding mode with the guys in the scouting department that the Colts have is quite a stretch.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 11:44 AM
Tell me who the Colts will miss then.

Dallas Clark - Lost it...
Curtis Painter - Oh no!
Addai - Average running back.
Brackett - Overpaid, getting old, can be replaced.

Leo
03-10-2012, 11:50 AM
Yeah, if yop are in a 10 to 15 year rebuilding mode. If I was Luck, I'd insist on a trade because this team doesn't want to win. I really feel sorry for Indy fans because when they got rid of Polian, this franchise looks headed for the cross.I think it will take them 3-4 years to get back. 10-15 is nonsense. Look, these players, while they were important to the Colts during their run, are either not worth their contracts, injury prone or getting old.

Clark: Older and in obvious decline overpaid

Bracket: Replaced by Angerer, who is just as good. Also overpaid

Bullitt: Never was anything other than a role player an average starter and has a chronic shoulder issue (need shoulder to tackle)

Wayne: Wants 1 WR money but only has 1-2 years left of that type of production. People hit the wall at a certain point 34-35ish and it’s over…ask Marvin Harrison

Addai: Most overrated player of the era. Good guy buy his best skill is pass blocking. Will make a good 3rd down back somewhere

Freeney: Still a beast but clearly wants out because he wont restructure knowing that they won’t carry him at 19mil. Freeney is more suited to a 4-3 anyways would be a situational player in a 3-4 and still productive but not an every down player which is not worthy of huge dollars.

These moves had to be done, for the long term health of the Colts.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 11:53 AM
Tell me who the Colts will miss then.

Dallas Clark - Lost it...
Curtis Painter - Oh no!
Addai - Average running back.
Brackett - Overpaid, getting old, can be replaced.

Id be more upset losing Saturday in FA, who clearly will not be back.

crossroads
03-10-2012, 11:58 AM
The draft is a crapshoot and the best of teams find 3 starters a draft, many of whom take a year or 2 to fully develop into starters. Indy will need to be perfect with no flops just to get back to 8 wins in 4 years. One or 2 slips and it could easily turn into a decade especially considering their GM is inexperienced and learning on the job.

FA is a place where smart teaqms add the final pieces to the puzzle, you cannot build a team through FA. Besides what decent FA's will want to sign with Indy, a team going nowhere.

Just be glad you are not an Indy fan because this mess could take a decade to correct.

It's a bit of a cliche, but sometimes you have to take a step-back in order to take two steps forward. Is the draft a crapshoot? Absolutely, but you have to have the confidence in yourself as a GM that you can and will find good players. The Colts are currently moving away from the Peyton Manning era. They know that they won't be in a position to contend for the next couple of years, so they might as well try for as fresh of a start as possible. Lukcily for them, they already have the most important piece of any rebuild, a potential franchise QB in Andrew Luck.

As others have pointed out in the thread, they didn't exactly release franchise players here. Addai's pretty much the text-book definition of an average running back. Dallas Clark is going to be 33 in June and is coming off the worst season of his career. Melvin Bullit's played in 6 games the past two season, and even when he's healthy he's just ok. The Colts are a bad team who are going to be bad next year as well. If you're going to suck, you might as well suck with cheap, young guys.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 11:59 AM
Tell me who the Colts will miss then.

Dallas Clark - Lost it...
Curtis Painter - Oh no!
Addai - Average running back.
Brackett - Overpaid, getting old, can be replaced.

Dallas Clark had an injury, if he's recovered, he's an All Pro TE. Then there is Reggie Wayne, Garcon, Diem, Anthony Gonzalea(coming off an injury), Joseph Addai, a productive RB, Jeff Saturday, all Pro OC,

When you cut 15 staters some of which were all pros, you lose not only starters but leadership to show the younger players how to play the game.

This is far wose than what Tampa Bay did a few years ago, this is cutting practically everybody. This is a complete dump of which I have never seen before. It is unprecedented.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 12:03 PM
Dallas Clark had an injury, if he's recovered, he's an All Pro TE. Then there is Reggie Wayne, Garcon, Diem, Anthony Gonzalea(coming off an injury), Joseph Addai, a productive RB, Jeff Saturday, all Pro OC,

When you cut 15 staters some of which were all pros, you lose not only starters but leadership to show the younger players how to play the game.

This is far wose than what Tampa Bay did a few years ago, this is cutting practically everybody. This is a complete dump of which I have never seen before. It is unprecedented.

Addai sucks
Dallas regressed this year when someone other then Peyton threw to him
Diem is old and lost a step
Saturday hurts (I mentioned just before) but he is like 35?
Wayne hurts, but knowing they wouldn't have Peyton he wouldn't come
Gonzalez is injury prone, like White

Dont you think some of those guys were All-Pros because of Peyton? I can say without a doubt some of the reason Jahri and Nicks are All-Pros is because Brees.

Saints-Tigers
03-10-2012, 12:04 PM
They're cutting most of the starters from a 2-14 team. Oh no. Those guys all had a chance to keep their job this past season, and then we realized that most of them were only employed because of Peyton.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 12:05 PM
Addai sucks
Dallas regressed this year when someone other then Peyton threw to him
Diem is old and lost a step
Saturday hurts (I mentioned just before) but he is like 35?
Wayne hurts, but knowing they wouldn't have Peyton he wouldn't come
Gonzalez is injury prone, like White

Dont you think some of those guys were All-Pros because of Peyton? I can say without a doubt some of the reason Jahri and Nicks are All-Pros is because Brees.

This.

The only important players the Colts are losing is becasue of running out contracts not becasue of releasing anyone.

Saturday and Wayne will probably be the only loss.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 12:07 PM
And because Wayne will get mad money your looking at another 3rd rounder atleast

crossroads
03-10-2012, 12:11 PM
Dallas Clark had an injury, if he's recovered, he's an All Pro TE. Then there is Reggie Wayne, Garcon, Diem, Anthony Gonzalea(coming off an injury), Joseph Addai, a productive RB, Jeff Saturday, all Pro OC,

When you cut 15 staters some of which were all pros, you lose not only starters but leadership to show the younger players how to play the game.

This is far wose than what Tampa Bay did a few years ago, this is cutting practically everybody. This is a complete dump of which I have never seen before. It is unprecedented.

The only loses on that list that they'll actually feel are Wayne, Garcon, and probably Diem and Saturday. But Saturday's 37, he can't and won't play forever, and this will give them a chance to see what Mike Pollak can do. And yeah, losing Wayne will suck, but he's going to get overpaid by someone so Indy's likely dodging a bullet on that one. Garcon, if he doesn't come back will probably be the biggest loss. Thankfully, as others have pointed out in the thread, this upcoming draft is loaded with WR's, so they should have a decent shot at replacing him.

And did you really list Anthony Gonzalez and the 5 catches he has over the last 3 years as a loss?

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I'm a Colts fan and I love most of these players, but it is just what has to happen.

crossroads
03-10-2012, 12:22 PM
I think if anything this just highlights how piss poor of a job Polian had done as a GM the last few years that they have such poor quality depth behind all these 30+ year olds that they're either cutting or letting walk.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 12:23 PM
I think if anything this just highlights how piss poor of a job Polian had done as a GM the last few years that they have such poor quality depth behind all these 30+ year olds that they're either cutting or letting walk.

Agreed x 10.

ShutDwn
03-10-2012, 12:34 PM
They're cutting most of the starters from a 2-14 team. Oh no. Those guys all had a chance to keep their job this past season, and then we realized that most of them were only employed because of Peyton.

This.

Some Colts fans are acting like cutting these players leaves the team in shambles. I really wonder if they all blacked out in 2011 and forgot how their "best" players showed up to win two games after going to the playoffs 11/12 years.

I think cutting some players, even though they are fan favorites is the right way to move on from the Peyton era.

Rosebud
03-10-2012, 12:42 PM
If you look at it rationally, these cuts make a ton of sense and don't hurt Luck at all.

Bracket - old, slow, small, and already replaced by Pat Angerer. Massively overpaid. Terrible contract by Bill Polian.

Clark - completely crumbled when Manning didn't play. Dropped every 3rd pass that hit him in the hands. He is a Manning creation. Both Wayne and Garcon stepped up and had 900+ yard seasons. Clark was pathetic, he's over 30, he can't block, and he's gotten hurt a lot. No big loss.

Addai - Lots of wear and tear, not fast, and his knowledge of the Manning offense was his best trait. Overpaid. I like him, he is the toughest loss, but he's a RB. He's replaceable.

Bullitt - Has a glass shoulder and he should've never been paid starter money. Another zero-impact cut.

Meanwhile these cuts free up $25 million in new cap space for 2013.

This is what I was coming in to post.

The biggest hit is lossing leadership, but with a rebuilding team I think it can be good to cut ties with some guys to let new leadership grow. I hope the Colts develop a new attitude and this is a good first step.

What leadership? Soft and complacent isn't what I want anyone teaching the kids the Colts need to be bringing in to become successful again.

killxswitch
03-10-2012, 12:43 PM
IamAmerica'sHat has no idea what he's talking about, don't waste your time explaining obvious things to him. These were smart cuts and the Colts will be competing for the division again by 2014. I can't wait til we have Luck and the rest of this class a year in, a high pick in the 2013 draft, and a ton of cap space to bring in a guy like Revis or Willis or Megatron in free agency.

LonghornsLegend
03-10-2012, 12:43 PM
And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.


What the hell are you talking about? The draft, nor Free Agency has started yet. The only moves they could have made were releasing players and they did just that, which was the right move.


You act like they just obliterated a ton of decisions already. The players they cut weren't going to contribute a bunch of wins next season, and this is the same team Peyton would be on.


So what moves would you have liked to see them do from January to now? You sound like you haven't followed football in 30 years and like you haven't witnessed how fast teams can turn around their fortunes.

Rosebud
03-10-2012, 12:50 PM
And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

You understand that teams sign stop gap players to provide competition with youngsters and depth right? The Colts might go out and make an impact signing or two and grab some cheap temporary options while they build up that foundation. Guys that won't be on the team by the time they're competing but will give the young players someone to play with while they grow and build up their talent base. Trying to determine whether the team is going anywhere right now is ********, even though so far they've made all of the right moves.

prock
03-10-2012, 01:13 PM
And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

The draft and free agency. They will sign stop gaps. Maybe a top FA or two. Lots of picks. Pretty simple.

senormysterioso
03-10-2012, 01:14 PM
they have almost $40 million in dead money next year now.http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/10/colts-moves-result-in-38-million-of-dead-money/

killxswitch
03-10-2012, 01:56 PM
they have almost $40 million in dead money next year now.http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/10/colts-moves-result-in-38-million-of-dead-money/

Not next year, this year. 2012 is already lost so it is time to eat dead cap and be ready to really improve in 2013.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 02:04 PM
Next year the Colts are gonna be big players in the draft and free agency. Assuming they get the #1 pick again, which seems inevitable, they'll draft Robert Woods and go out and get some good free agents.

draftguru151
03-10-2012, 02:16 PM
10-15 year rebuilding process is LITERALLY the dumbest thing I have ever read.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 02:19 PM
10-15 year rebuilding process is LITERALLY the dumbest thing I have ever read.

:lol:

Must say i lol'ed hard when i read that.

zachsaints52
03-10-2012, 03:15 PM
Next year the Colts are gonna be big players in the draft and free agency. Assuming they get the #1 pick again, which seems inevitable, they'll draft Robert Woods and go out and get some good free agents.

Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?

I dont think its a lock but its looking likely. This is the least talented team in the NFL.

crossroads
03-10-2012, 03:34 PM
Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?

I don't think you can ever say a team is a "lock" to be get the #1 pick. There's just too much weird **** that can happen in any game (the whole "any given sunday" cliche) that there's just no such thing as a guarantee. They'll certainly be one of the favourites though.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Even the best of teams can find at best 4 starters per draft and some of those take a year or 2 before they actually start, that's assuming Pollock can actually make great picks.
To replace 15 starters is a minimum of 3 years if and that is a big if, everything in the draft goes right. I'm giving him credit for finding 4 to 6 starters in FA, and good luck with that.

The best teams in the NFL don't waste money on FA's till they reach the point where maybe they need a couple to fill in around their other solid players, teams that try to build through FA usually fail miserably.

I've seen teams rebuild many times over the years but I have NEVER seen a team gut itself like INDY did, it is unprecedented and I'll be very interested, like the league will, to see what kind of success they have, but I'm not holding my breath expecting great things.

GaMeTiMe
03-10-2012, 05:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with any of these moves, I'm surprised anyone thinks otherwise. Other than Harrison and Wayne the Colts had a pretty garbage all-around team throughout most of the Peyton era (and Tarik Glenn and a few other guys before someone jumps on that, you get my point) and honestly their defense has always been a complete joke from scheme to personel. This team has the chance to draft one of the best QB prospects that's come along in a while, changed management top to bottom, has flipped the defensive philosphy upside down and really has nothing on the roster other than a few poor old souls that will just miss the Peyton days which will only feed into their demise in Indy. If Mathis buys into the system and becomes a beast 3-4 rusher he's a different story, if Luck ever led Indy anywhere he'd be one of the most talked about players as the only "old-school" and "new-school" Colt

Unless Luck legit carries the team on his back on a consistent basis in his rookie season they're looking at a sure-fire top 10 pick next year and for all we know another stud player. Through this class and next year's as well as free agent pieces both years and Luck (hopefully) being a true top QB in the league they will be fine. They are far better off gutting the roster completely than fooling themselves by keeping guys like Clark and Brackett around.

Vox Populi
03-10-2012, 05:25 PM
The Colts will be fine. They replaced over paid veterans whose production can be replicated by cheaper options while they look to build a more talented YOUNG roster. The only guys under 30 they got rid of were Addai and Bullitt (29 and 28). Diem, Wayne, Saturday, Brackett, Clark are all old, over paid, or frequently injured. Freeney will get them compensation of some form when hes traded too. If the Colts don't go out and spend money in free agency this year they'll get even more compensation for guys like Saturday, Diem, Garcon and Wayne (I think they're all FA's) as well even though I think only Wayne and Garcon will get any decent money.

Keeping those guys around for Luck to try to win with, when a healthy Peyton Manning literally had to carry a younger, more talented roster to a 10-6 record in 2010, and then the same guys produced a 2-14 season in 2011 would be completely pointless. The Colts are building a completely different kind of team. They're going to have a new kind of leadership and mentality instilled by the new coaching staff, and they'll want Andrew Luck to be the leader for them.

The Colts will probably be really bad for a couple years, and have some pretty high draft picks to go along with the massive amount of cap space that they'll have next year in free agency to get the guys that fit their new system. Not that its an acceptable argument, but playing against Gabbert twice a year won't hurt their record, and I don't see the Titans being anything more than a completely mediocre team for a while unless Locker puts it all together and turns out to be a fantastic player.

Yeah. The Colts will be crap for a couple years. They were going to be bad with those players anyways. Might as well get rid of them at the start and not force the guys into a rebuilding project and free up some cap room. The Mathis extension is a little puzzling, but I guess he fit into the new staffs plans based on their conversations with him. He definitely seems like a guy who could make a Dumerville-esque transition to a 3-4 though.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 05:28 PM
Very exciting times for the Colts!

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 05:40 PM
It actually is. I was so tired of all the bs of Polian.

SuperPacker
03-10-2012, 05:43 PM
It actually is. I was so tired of all the bs of Polian.

I'm pleased for you. Well not pleased, but intruiged to see what happens over the next few years.

Steady Lurkin
03-10-2012, 05:52 PM
Even the best of teams can find at best 4 starters per draft and some of those take a year or 2 before they actually start, that's assuming Pollock can actually make great picks.
To replace 15 starters is a minimum of 3 years if and that is a big if, everything in the draft goes right. I'm giving him credit for finding 4 to 6 starters in FA, and good luck with that.

The best teams in the NFL don't waste money on FA's till they reach the point where maybe they need a couple to fill in around their other solid players, teams that try to build through FA usually fail miserably.

I've seen teams rebuild many times over the years but I have NEVER seen a team gut itself like INDY did, it is unprecedented and I'll be very interested, like the league will, to see what kind of success they have, but I'm not holding my breath expecting great things.

This is actually EXACTLY how teams gut and rebuild themselves in the salary cap era.

You cite Green Bay as an example...guess you don't remember the purge they went through post-Sherman.

The Giants completely gutted their roster post-Fassel.

Same goes for KC, and they're literally missing ONLY a QB (which the Colts are getting plopped into their laps).

Baltimore has gutted their roster TWICE. Once after their Superbowl and again after moving on from Billick.

You get into way, way, way more trouble when you try to put off the rebuilding process with bad, veteran contracts and restructuring (think Jon Gruden in Tampa. And Al Davis, for that matter).

mightytitan9
03-10-2012, 09:48 PM
The truth is the Colts have been aging for years, when they cut Peyton Manning they basically said goodbye to being a 10 win team for the next 5 years. Can anyone say they're suprised they cut these guys too?

All of them were support players they resigned because their window was still open, once they cut Manning their window closed so they released high paid players to try to cut their rebuilding from 5 years to 3.

Needless to say, they're still in trouble. They don't have a very good RB, WR, TE or O-Line. They have a defense switching schemes. I doubt many offensive players are going to sign as FA's because they don't wanna play with a rookie QB, so they're looking at building in the draft, take into effect they're needing 3-4 Defensive guys, and there'es not enough picks to go around

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 10:37 PM
The truth is the Colts have been aging for years, when they cut Peyton Manning they basically said goodbye to being a 10 win team for the next 5 years. Can anyone say they're suprised they cut these guys too?

All of them were support players they resigned because their window was still open, once they cut Manning their window closed so they released high paid players to try to cut their rebuilding from 5 years to 3.

Needless to say, they're still in trouble. They don't have a very good RB, WR, TE or O-Line. They have a defense switching schemes. I doubt many offensive players are going to sign as FA's because they don't wanna play with a rookie QB, so they're looking at building in the draft, take into effect they're needing 3-4 Defensive guys, and there'es not enough picks to go around

The question I ask, is, 'will Luck survive physically from the abuse he is going to take with no OL', could he even have second thoughts about coming to Indy, his agent cannot be too pleased, and if he signs with Indy and they cannot replace those players sufficiently over the next 3 years, will he resign with Indy when his contract expires????

Usually in my experience, successful teams allow the new HC to decide who fits in and who should go, in training camp. Here it looks to me that the new GM and Irsay himself are making the decisions and the HC will be asked to make do.

Anybody who says this is the way it is done, is out of touch with the football world. The last major overhaul of a team to this extent took place at Tennessee under the guidance of Jeff Fisher, a very experienced HC who had a large say in who went and who stayed.

It is going to be a long 5 years to find out how it plays out even with an excellent QB in Luck.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-10-2012, 10:43 PM
They should just ask the league to give them an SEC team and let them take their starters.

That wouldn't be allowed, it would probably take them over the salary cap.

RCAChainGang
03-10-2012, 10:44 PM
I actually think all of these releases make sense for what Chuck Pagano would want. These players just ate up cap and really won't work in the new system. I wouldn't say this is Grigson and Irsay only.

mightytitan9
03-10-2012, 10:50 PM
The question I ask, is, 'will Luck survive physically from the abuse he is going to take with no OL', could he even have second thoughts about coming to Indy, his agent cannot be too pleased, and if he signs with Indy and they cannot replace those players sufficiently over the next 3 years, will he resign with Indy when his contract expires????

Usually in my experience, successful teams allow the new HC to decide who fits in and who should go, in training camp. Here it looks to me that the new GM and Irsay himself are making the decisions and the HC will be asked to make do.

Anybody who says this is the way it is done, is out of touch with the football world. The last major overhaul of a team to this extent took place at Tennessee under the guidance of Jeff Fisher, a very experienced HC who had a large say in who went and who stayed.

It is going to be a long 5 years to find out how it plays out even with an excellent QB in Luck.

These players were overpaid players with injury concerns. I don't necessarily
agree it was the right choice, but I can't argue it was the wrong choice. The best hopes the Colts have is find some guys other teams don't want, or that other teams are wanting as backups and want a chance to start.

The Colts are in serious risk or totally ruining Lucks career, which would be fine with me. Best case scenario is to get an offensive line and just run a very basic, vanilla offense that's run heavy in my opinion. You can't go all David Carr on Luck

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-11-2012, 10:29 AM
That wouldn't be allowed, it would probably take them over the salary cap.

I was curious what this would look like...

TE - Orson Charles, Georgia

OL - Barrett Jones, Alabama
Will Blackwell, LSU
Cordy Glenn, Georgia
Alex Hurst, LSU

C - William Vlachos, Alabama

WR - Jarius Wright, Arkansas

Rueben Randle, LSU

QB - Tyler Wilson, Arkansas

RB - Trent Richardson, Alabama
Michael Dyer, Auburn

AP - *Joe Adams, Arkansas
*Chris Rainey, Florida

DEFENSE
DL - Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
Sam Montgomery, LSU
Corey Lemonier, Auburn
Jake Bequette, Arkansas

LB - Dont'a Hightower, Alabama
Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
Jarvis Jones, Georgia

DB - Mark Barron, Alabama
Tyrann Mathieu, LSU
Morris Claiborne, LSU
Bacarri Rambo, Georgia

This could be a super bowl winner in a few years. I see atleast 13 first 2 rounders.

Unbiased
03-11-2012, 02:33 PM
You do realize how many players the Colts have lost and they aren't all past it or no good????

You tell me where do you find 15 starters in 5 months???

Would you want to be an Indy fan?????

Will Luck survive physically with no OL, no WR's, no TE and no defense????

It is going to be very ugly and a disgrace for Indy fans and the NFL, especially if Luck gets a serious injury.

They didn't have a TE to begin with. Dallas Clark is atrocious at this point in his career. You really think they shouldn't have cut him?

Rabscuttle
03-11-2012, 02:58 PM
2011 - Suck for Luck


2012 - 20?? - Suck with Luck

This could be a rough couple of seasons if there aren't a lot of hits in the draft early and some shrewd free agency deals. There best hope to jumpstart the process is for a lights out year by Barkley and another year of ineptitude.

Who knows, maybe next year the Rams will be trading their windfall to get a qb.

Rosebud
03-11-2012, 03:25 PM
There's a difference between good starters and crap players that are forced into starting because their team's run awfully. Indy can find ****** starters, but at least these new crappy starters will be cheaper, younger and won't be complacent. Things were getting bad, despite Peyton covering for an increasingly worsening roster. They were going to keep getting uglier without shrewd signings and strong drafts.

niel89
03-11-2012, 04:41 PM
The Colts are in serious risk or totally ruining Lucks career, which would be fine with me. Best case scenario is to get an offensive line and just run a very basic, vanilla offense that's run heavy in my opinion. You can't go all David Carr on Luck

They have some pieces for an OL so they can get it together pretty soon hopefully. However running a basic vanilla offense would be a huge waste. One of Lucks best abilities is to learn & absorb info really quick. I agree they should go run heavy, but Luck would be able to run a pretty complex offense pretty early on, and his ability to read presnap audible would help him be healthier.

One of my favorite aspects of Luck is his ability to take a hit. The guy is a tank out there. I've never seen a game where after a sack/hit on him he didn't tell the guy 'good hit' or laugh it off. He deals well with contact, so much so that Coach Shaw had to make him run less and slide more last year.

Steady Lurkin
03-11-2012, 05:25 PM
This is actually EXACTLY how teams gut and rebuild themselves in the salary cap era.

You cite Green Bay as an example...guess you don't remember the purge they went through post-Sherman.

The Giants completely gutted their roster post-Fassel.

Same goes for KC, and they're literally missing ONLY a QB (which the Colts are getting plopped into their laps).

Baltimore has gutted their roster TWICE. Once after their Superbowl and again after moving on from Billick.

You get into way, way, way more trouble when you try to put off the rebuilding process with bad, veteran contracts and restructuring (think Jon Gruden in Tampa. And Al Davis, for that matter).

**** a page trap.

Rosebud
03-11-2012, 05:51 PM
They have some pieces for an OL so they can get it together pretty soon hopefully. However running a basic vanilla offense would be a huge waste. One of Lucks best abilities is to learn & absorb info really quick. I agree they should go run heavy, but Luck would be able to run a pretty complex offense pretty early on, and his ability to read presnap audible would help him be healthier.

One of my favorite aspects of Luck is his ability to take a hit. The guy is a tank out there. I've never seen a game where after a sack/hit on him he didn't tell the guy 'good hit' or laugh it off. He deals well with contact, so much so that Coach Shaw had to make him run less and slide more last year.

Luck reminds me a lot of Eli and I don't think developing him similar to Eli would be a bad idea at all. Rebuild the OL quick so that you can depend on the run while he's working through his mistakes. Giants signed Plaxico Burress to be give Eli the opportunity to have success when he did get to take his shots down the field, they signed Kareem McKenzie and Shaun O'Hara to bolster the OL and running game before using their highest pick the following season on Chris Snee. The giants built an offense that was based on the running game and so they were able to carry through the peaks and valleys of a young QBs development, while also giving Eli enough weapons to go out and make plays to.

If I'm the colts this offseason, priority number one in FA is going after an OL. If you can get Nicks or Grubbs, do it. Pay them whatever they want because having a great interior OL is crucial to protecting Luck from interior pressure and giving him a reliable running game. Of course you try and snag a guy like Vincent Jackson if you're not going to have to outbid a true contender and pay a "rebuilding team premium", but if not just be patient and see what big play receiver you can bring in, even if it is a more complimentary option like Mario Manningham. Then in the draft you hope like hell that there isn't a run on offensive lineman in the late first and a guy like Konz or Mike Adams slides to 33.

I know Luck is a very intelligent player and that is what makes him so special. But to me that is all of the more reason to take things slowly with him, build a team that'll run the ball and control the line of scrimmage so he can really absorb all of the things NFL defenses do that no one in the college game can. That way you also get to really develop the passing attack along with him, focusing the schemes and personnel on where he has his greatest success.

This strategy also helps cover for a defense which is being completely rebuilt, it helps the colts control the clock, shorten the game, and limit the number of 3 and outs from their young quarterback.

zachsaints52
03-11-2012, 06:03 PM
^^^^^

That guy speaks truth.