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gpngc
03-19-2012, 10:50 AM
The Panthers just signed Mike Tolbert to a four-year deal. What team do you think will trade for Jonathan Stewart (DeAngelo Williams signed an awful megadeal last offseason)?

Stewart quietly was very impressive last season.

The Panthers OL was awful at run-blocking for some reason and he had to split time with Williams.

But he was every bit of the back that we all expected him to be last season in terms of power and breaking tackles.

And he far exceeded expectations as a third-down back in terms of receiving and especially as a pass protector. He CLEARLY worked very hard at that and actually turned into one of the best 3DBs in the league.

This move is curious because you traditionally don't trade a guy that valuable, coming off a career year, who has clearly worked hard to develop his game by working on his blocking and receiving.

Maybe he requested a trade? And now the Panthers signed Tolbert so they can follow through? That makes more sense than just trading your 3rd best offensive player. Maybe he wanted a shot to be a 3-down featured back and didn't like DWill's presence? That makes sense.

Or maybe the Panthers really just want three RBs that need the ball. Hm.

Just checked his stats.

He averaged 5.4 yards per carry, had 47 receptions, didn't lose a fumble, and scored 5 touchdowns despite Newton also scoring a million rushing TDs and Williams taking his carries.

Again, he was CLEARLY better than Williams and played 3rd downs over him.

And he's 24 years old. The injury history is concerning, but he's 100% healthy now coming off a healthy year AND he doesn't have as much wear-and-tear on his wheels because he missed so much time.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is an extremely curious move by Carolina and one that some team is going to be VERY happy to take advantage of.

Stewart will be a VERY significant acquisition for someone. Pick #25 might not even be too high for John Fox. I'd expect a bunch of teams to make offers...

He's valuable. But how valuable?

And any chance they keep all three? Mike Goodson had 0 touches last year as the third back...

Or maybe they can somehow get out of DWill's deal....?

But if they do indeed trade Stewart... where!?

Nalej
03-19-2012, 10:56 AM
What's his contract look like? Is he in his last year? Or... ?

BeerBaron
03-19-2012, 10:57 AM
2012 is the last year of his rookie deal, so whoever he's playing for next year will need to sign him to a long term deal. Carolina can't reasonably afford 2 RBs being paid top 5-10 money.

Nalej
03-19-2012, 10:59 AM
Ah, well then take the Pats hat out of it then.
I saw "pass protection" and "receiving" and "3rd down back" and pictured BB (not ^^^) drooling

TACKLE
03-19-2012, 11:01 AM
I've felt for a while that Stewart could be one of the top backs in the league if he ever got the full workload. He's really a complete package at RB and has a pretty special size/speed ratio. If it were me, I wouldn't have a problem giving up a mid 2nd for him though a 3rd is probably a more likely price.

Jakey
03-19-2012, 11:05 AM
Steelers.

DO IT.

DO IT NOW!

Nalej
03-19-2012, 11:05 AM
Send him to Denver now as Peyton's new toy

BeerBaron
03-19-2012, 11:07 AM
Steelers.

DO IT.

DO IT NOW!

But my Steelers fan friend says that Mendenhall is the best back in the league. They don't need Stewart.

A Perfect Score
03-19-2012, 11:19 AM
I've felt for a while that Stewart could be one of the top backs in the league if he ever got the full workload. He's really a complete package at RB and has a pretty special size/speed ratio. If it were me, I wouldn't have a problem giving up a mid 2nd for him though a 3rd is probably a more likely price.

This. Basically what I said in the Free Agency thread this morning as well. A conditional 3rd that escalates to a 2nd if he reaches certain incentives sounds about right.

brat316
03-19-2012, 11:26 AM
But my Steelers fan friend says that Mendenhall is the best back in the league. They don't need Stewart.

You should hit him with a steel beam. Remind him of that ACL injury and that he probably won't be back this season.

Hell ya the steelers should take Stewart...if we can make magic cap space.

brat316
03-19-2012, 11:27 AM
This. Basically what I said in the Free Agency thread this morning as well. A conditional 3rd that escalates to a 2nd if he reaches certain incentives sounds about right.


That depends on what the Panthers are looking for, if they want to wait good trade, if they want picks now, which they probably would.

FordFairlane
03-19-2012, 11:34 AM
But my Steelers fan friend says that Mendenhall is the best back in the league. They don't need Stewart.

Your friend is ********. Mendenhall is not even a top ten back in the league and he is coming off an ACL tear. He most likely is out next year or at best on the PUP list and going to be a free agent in 2013.

Matthew Jones
03-19-2012, 11:36 AM
Carolina should hold onto Jonathan Stewart. After this season, DeAngelo Williams will have no guaranteed money remaining on his deal and Stewart will be looking for a new contract. Split the carries this year, see who you like better, and move forwards with them. They can always tag-and-trade Stewart next year if DeAngelo plays well, or try and move DeAngelo if Stewart is superior. Cutting DeAngelo after the season would allow the Panthers to avoid paying him the 4-$22 or so that will be remaining on Williams' contract, which could then be put towards locking up Stewart.

BeerBaron
03-19-2012, 11:38 AM
You should hit him with a steel beam. Remind him of that ACL injury and that he probably won't be back this season.

Hell ya the steelers should take Stewart...if we can make magic cap space.

You speak with logic, reason and common sense. Those things are outweighed by insane homerism. (I was mostly just making a joke...)

The fact that the Steelers are looking at rolling into 2012 with a banged up Mendenhall, Isaac Redman and maybe a rookie is hilarious to me.

Ben will have to throw 40 times a game again behind an o-line that I don't trust to protect him and he'll end up hurt again.

gpngc
03-19-2012, 11:40 AM
Carolina should hold onto Jonathan Stewart. After this season, DeAngelo Williams will have no guaranteed money remaining on his deal and Stewart will be looking for a new contract. Split the carries this year, see who you like better, and move forwards with them. They can always tag-and-trade Stewart next year if DeAngelo plays well, or try and move DeAngelo if Stewart is superior. Cutting DeAngelo after the season would allow the Panthers to avoid paying him the 4-$22 or so that will be remaining on Williams' contract, which could then be put towards locking up Stewart.

That sounds reasonable, but what the hell are they going to do this season? Unless Tolbert's willing to play FB, it's not going to work with three mouths to feed (four if you count Cam).

I suspect JStew asked for a trade. He knows he's going to be a FA after this season so he wants to get a chance to showcase his worth. He definitely didn't feel he was maximizing his value by sharing the carries with DWill.

ShutDwn
03-19-2012, 11:55 AM
That sounds reasonable, but what the hell are they going to do this season? Unless Tolbert's willing to play FB, it's not going to work with three mouths to feed (four if you count Cam).

I suspect JStew asked for a trade. He knows he's going to be a FA after this season so he wants to get a chance to showcase his worth. He definitely didn't feel he was maximizing his value by sharing the carries with DWill.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/

I'm shocked, but a trade apparently isn't expected according to a Panthers reporter on twitter. A big part of this signing is that Tolbert is a decent good teams player which has been the biggest theme of the Panthers silent offseason. ESPN says Tolbert left $1M on the table to come to Panthers but I don't know anything else about the deal.

The only thing I really know is that Mike Goodson is gone.

gpngc
03-19-2012, 12:14 PM
"Multiple team sources" tell the Charlotte Observer that Jonathan Stewart is "unlikely" to be traded despite the Panthers' addition of Mike Tolbert.
The Panthers will face a tough decision when Stewart enters 2013 free agency, but for now they're poised to keep him along with DeAngelo Williams and Tolbert. Tolbert will likely shoulder some of the load on passing downs, and cover kicks on special teams. Stewart and Williams will be the primary backs. The Panthers could consider cutting Williams and re-signing Stewart next offseason, although releasing DeAngelo would cause a roughly $5 million cap hit in 2013.
Source: Charlotte Observer
Mar 19 - 1:05 PM

I guess Tolbert will play primarily specials? His deal must be peanuts...

Oh well.

BeerBaron
03-19-2012, 12:16 PM
The Panthers ****** that situation up so badly. I have no idea why they paid so much to DeAngelo to keep him when a 1-2 of Stewart and Goodson would have been more than adequate.

RaiderNation
03-19-2012, 01:33 PM
Denver makes sense with Fox and Manning in town, Willis McGahee is old and Stewart could possibly Manning's best RB since Edgerrin James. A 2nd would be decent value for both sides, and Denver has the cap room to make this type of move.

mightytitan9
03-19-2012, 01:36 PM
I went with Tampa, although I doubt htey'd trade him to a division rival I think it'd be agood fit

Brown Leader
03-19-2012, 01:36 PM
I'm sure Clev's interested but he's always nicked up. Pass.

ShutDwn
03-19-2012, 01:51 PM
The Panthers ****** that situation up so badly. I have no idea why they paid so much to DeAngelo to keep him when a 1-2 of Stewart and Goodson would have been more than adequate.

I don't think they foresaw Cam being where he is. I think they believed DeAngelo would be carrying the ball a lot more. It's still way to big a contract, but I would bet on it being restructured next year. The Panthers do this all the time.

The thing about Mike Goodson is that he can't stop fumbling. He got into Rivera's doghouse in training camp early and helped himself by fumbling twice in the opening preseason game and then didn't get minutes till the last game. It's a fixable problem but I suspect there is more between them than just fumbles. Someone may fix him, but he won't get time when Williams and Stewart fumbled once all last year.

I also don't like weighting performances by players during horrible seasons for the team too heavily.

If they don't trade Stewart I wouldn't expect Tolbert to get many carries. He can offer a lot of versatility to the Panthers as a fullback and special teamer. I can't see Tolbert having any leverage in negotiations so I hope this contract is small.

YotoJets007
03-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Stewart's value may be about 3rd -4th round compensatory pick for 2014 draft so that means Panthers should acquire any higher than 3rd round pick for 2012 draft.

I would love to have him for 3rd round pick if moving Stewart were a must. I still am perplexed about them signing Tolbert.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2012, 03:28 PM
I've felt for a while that Stewart could be one of the top backs in the league if he ever got the full workload. He's really a complete package at RB and has a pretty special size/speed ratio. If it were me, I wouldn't have a problem giving up a mid 2nd for him though a 3rd is probably a more likely price.

I've thought this about him for a very long time. Stewart is a beast, and if it is only going to take a 2nd rd pick teams should be lining up to do it. Cincy anyone? Two 1st rd picks and Stewart with the 2nd? Mmmmm.

I wish Carolina wasn't so stupid. Let's just let this guy rot on the depth chart and keep giving everyone else carries and then trade him so they are looking for another RB again in a week.


NFL teams never cease to amaze me. They resigned Deangelo again for what? Signed Tolbert for what? J-Stew and Goodson was a good combo and a cheap one at that.


Someone is going to get a steal if they get him out of Carolina.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-19-2012, 03:29 PM
I really wonder what he gets on the open market. He could be our next Turner (but more versatile), who is also an FA.

zachsaints52
03-19-2012, 03:32 PM
What about the Packers? Seems like they need a RB and Kuhn gets most of the short yardage situations.

bigbuc
03-19-2012, 05:48 PM
The deal they signed Williams to was the worst last year. Guy had one amazing season....

Caulibflower
03-19-2012, 06:44 PM
I like the Lions and Green Bay for him. Those would be good situations and would take advantage of his skills pretty well.

gpngc
03-19-2012, 06:47 PM
The Panthers beat writers are flip-flopping with this like crazy. I don't know if it's to gain leverage in trade talks or what.

I still want to know Tolbert's contract details. If it is a tiny deal, maybe he really did just sign to play FB and specials...

You know what, they don't even have a FB on their roster.

I think he'll play FB. Maybe they paid him the most $ he could get on the open market if he agreed to play FB and not eat up many touches?

This thread may end up pointless.

ShutDwn
03-19-2012, 06:55 PM
Contract details
http://mobile.catscratchreader.com/2012/3/19/2885794/a-look-at-mike-tolberts-contract-with-the-panthers

Tolbert is playing FB and special teams while making $700k in the first year with $2.4 guaranteed. The panthers aren't planning on trading either of their two current backs although Tolbert has options incase Stewart leaves.

Looks like judgement should have waited for actual details because this is an excellent deal.

Caddy
03-19-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't understand why Tolbert would go to Carolina. Surely a team like Ciny could have offered him more playing time.

ShutDwn
03-19-2012, 07:15 PM
I don't understand why Tolbert would go to Carolina. Surely a team like Ciny could have offered him more playing time.

He played in carolina in college, he was in Chud's offense, he knows Rivera and he wants to play with Cam. I bet he is a frequent safety outlet for Cam.

He is likely the replacement for Shockey in the offense although they play different positions.

Caddy
03-19-2012, 07:17 PM
He played in carolina in college, he was in Chud's offense, he knows Rivera and he wants to play with Cam. I bet he is a frequent safety outlet for Cam.

He is likely the replacement for Shockey in the offense although they play different positions.

Those things may be true, but surely he could have gotten more money/more playing time elsewhere.

WCH
03-19-2012, 07:22 PM
What about the Packers? Seems like they need a RB and Kuhn gets most of the short yardage situations.

I honestly can't figure out if they need a RB, or if they just don't care whether or not they have a RB. They basically set up the run by establishing the pass, and I don't see them making a trade for an established player at the RB position. They seem content with Starks and Kuhn, even if those guys aren't great.

But if they did add Stewart, I'd be a very happy Cheesehead.

Rosebud
03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
I honestly can't figure out if they need a RB, or if they just don't care whether or not they have a RB. They basically set up the run by establishing the pass, and I don't see them making a trade for an established player at the RB position. They seem content with Starks and Kuhn, even if those guys aren't great.

But if they did add Stewart, I'd be a very happy Cheesehead.

Starks is the one Packer I really love so they better not add someone to steal his touches.

*token would look great on my giants for a conditional 3rd or 2nd, especially if they trade Osi for a 2nd, post.*

H.O.O.D
03-19-2012, 09:19 PM
Pittsburgh could also be an option if they do trade J-Stew.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2012, 09:59 PM
He played in carolina in college, he was in Chud's offense, he knows Rivera and he wants to play with Cam. I bet he is a frequent safety outlet for Cam.

He is likely the replacement for Shockey in the offense although they play different positions.

All of those are idiotic reasons to sign with a team, I'm sorry. I'm not in his head to know fully but none of those even matter in the grand scheme of things. On the latter about being a frequent safety outlet, sure, but last time I checked they already had a ton of guys who can do just that and Stewart is a lot better at it.


If they are dumb enough to trade him they are going to make somebody insanely better. Detroit with J-Stew & Javhid Best? Yea right...This seems like a situation where they would rather sit on their hands instead of letting him get a gig somewhere.


I agree with he could very well be our next Michael Turner, there aren't many 25 carry, feature backs in the league but he's got everything you look for to be a dominant one.

WCH
03-19-2012, 10:54 PM
Starks is the one Packer I really love so they better not add someone to steal his touches.

*token would look great on my giants for a conditional 3rd or 2nd, especially if they trade Osi for a 2nd, post.*

A Giants fan loves Starks? I think I see what you did there...

Rosebud
03-19-2012, 11:19 PM
A Giants fan loves Starks? I think I see what you did there...

I went to UB for 2 years while he was there. Had some friends have classes with him and from what they said he was just a really good guy and a great RB for the Bulls. Then when his injury robbed him of a first round contract I was really hoping the Giants or Bills would pick him up and turn him into another late round steal cause the kid had great talent, a great head on his shoulders and balls when he ran.

WCH
03-19-2012, 11:25 PM
I went to UB for 2 years while he was there. Had some friends have classes with him and from what they said he was just a really good guy and a great RB for the Bulls. Then when his injury robbed him of a first round contract I was really hoping the Giants or Bills would pick him up and turn him into another late round steal cause the kid had great talent, a great head on his shoulders and balls when he ran.

Oh, cool! Thanks for the back story. You understand my suspicion, given that the Giants kept him pretty well contained during their two meetings last year (one 20+ yard run not withstanding).

I actually like him a lot too. He seems to work hard and doesn't do anything stupid. He's a lot like Ryan Grant, except he doesn't fall down the first time you touch him.

Rosebud
03-19-2012, 11:29 PM
Oh, cool! Thanks for the back story. You understand my suspicion, given that the Giants kept him pretty well contained during their two meetings last year (one 20+ yard run not withstanding).

I actually like him a lot too. He seems to work hard and doesn't do anything stupid. He's a lot like Ryan Grant, except he doesn't fall down the first time you touch him.

Yeah, he's the only guy I felt bad about not doing better against us...a little bit. He really has a good head on his shoulders and he's got great talent, he runs really hard, has excellent balance and can break off big runs. That team just doesn't have the OL or commitment to the run to fully take advantage of him and keep their offense more diverse and harder to disrupt.

GaMeTiMe
03-20-2012, 12:47 AM
They're even throwing DeAngelo Williams' name out there as a possibility to be traded or even cut. I think Stewart is a much more likely candidate because of both of their contract situations but if they are able to swallow the hit they'd take by cutting Williams I would definitely respect that move as an admitted mistake and opportunity to commit to Stewart long-term. Nothing wrong with Stewart as a featured back with Tolbert and Goodson spelling him, Tolbert also getting some time at FB. In a heavy rushing attack with Cam Newton probably being the leader of it all, that is deadly. Williams only held them back last year.

Unbiased
03-20-2012, 12:50 AM
Pittsburgh could also be an option if they do trade J-Stew.

They showed a lot of interest in him before the draft.

H.O.O.D
03-20-2012, 08:39 AM
They showed a lot of interest in him before the draft.

While the Steelers had no interest in free agent running back Mike Tolbert, they do have one very big concern at the position. They do not believe Rashard Mendenhall will be of much use to them in 2012, which is the final year of his contract.
Its possible Mendenhall may have had his last carry with the Steelers.
Sources told me that the Steelers will not count on Mendenhall returning to form until at least the 2013 season, and his contract with the Steelers will have expired by then. GM Kevin Colbert basically said hes not counting on him until 2013 when he said this on Feb. 13: I never feel good about an ACL until a year. Im not a doctor, but that's my mindset. If he gets back before that, to me it's a bonus.
Even if he does get back before that, however, hes not expected to be at the level he was as a running back before the injury in the playoff game at Denver and subsequent surgery. The Steelers not only have lost Mendenhall, they likely wont re-sign UFA Mewelde Moore.
So, where does that leave them? It leaves them with Isaac Redman as their starter with Jonathan Dwyer, John Clay and Barron Batch in the stable behind him.
Are they comfortable with that?

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/115416-ed-minus-mendenhall-do-steelers-have-enough-rbs

Little doubt that they address the position in the draft or look to the FA/trade market to add a body, maybe even two.

GoRavens
03-20-2012, 12:51 PM
Expect Miami, Denver, and Cincinatti to be the front runners to execute this trade.
Either way you cut it, DeAngelo or Stewart is gone next year.

Asteinebach
03-23-2012, 02:35 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and say this about Stewart: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Stewart has never really gotten a fair shake at being an NFL RB. He was fun to watch in college, and has had flashes of brilliance in the NFL. It could be one of those situations where a team knows what they're getting, but maybe Carolina doesn't know what's leaving town? Michael Turner comes to mind...for some reason.

Caulibflower
03-23-2012, 09:19 PM
He could almost be another version of Jerome Bettis, and underappreciated young running back who goes to Pittsburgh and then establishes himself as one of the best backs in the NFL. Mendenhall doesn't look good for the upcoming year, Pittsburgh's a team that likes to run the ball, and Stewart is a versatile back, the rare talented veteran that really doesn't have many miles on his tires. I really like him to Pittsburgh.

Asteinebach
03-23-2012, 09:37 PM
Veteran at the age of 25...that's a pretty good shake if it is Pittsburgh. I've heard they're looking to cut Mendenhall or possibly trade him.

Miaoww
03-23-2012, 10:24 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and say this about Stewart: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Stewart has never really gotten a fair shake at being an NFL RB. He was fun to watch in college, and has had flashes of brilliance in the NFL. It could be one of those situations where a team knows what they're getting, but maybe Carolina doesn't know what's leaving town? Michael Turner comes to mind...for some reason.

The Panthers are well aware of what they've got in Stewart. They'll be desperate to keep him in Charlotte. It's simply a matter of whether they have the money or not.

Oh and he hasn't 'rotted on the depth chart', he's split carries pretty equally with Williams. This has allowed both backs to be kept fresh, which is something I'm sure they appreciate.

H.O.O.D
03-24-2012, 09:20 AM
Veteran at the age of 25...that's a pretty good shake if it is Pittsburgh. I've heard they're looking to cut Mendenhall or possibly trade him.

This is his contract year.