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Tampa 2 4 life
03-29-2007, 11:45 AM
PHOENIX - Jon Gruden was on his second cup of coffee at the NFC coaches' breakfast Wednesday morning at the Arizona Biltmore Resort by the time a question hanging in the cool desert air finally snapped him awake.

Is it harder picking players in the top five of the NFL draft?

"I'd rather pick No. 1 and do whatever I want," Gruden said. "Why would it be harder?"

Gruden might have to wait until the Bucs pick fourth overall next month, but it's clear he would prefer not to. It's also becoming more obvious the player Tampa Bay would consider moving up for is Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson.

Like many teams, the Bucs were blown away by Johnson's pro day workout March 15 in Atlanta.

"You put his body on at the combine and you have this big guy looking at you on the big screen with his shirt off and he's chiseled and he's 6-5 and 240 pounds and he runs 4.36 for us," Gruden said. "Then he jumps 11-7 and he's mad as hell at himself. I've been doing this 16 years and I've never seen 11-7, especially from a 6-5, 240-pound guy. Then he jumps 44 1/2 inches and he's mad as hell, he thinks he should've gotten 47. And he's a great kid. He'll look you in the eye and he wants to be good. Everybody you talk to at Georgia Tech says that's a good kid right there, that Calvin Johnson. He's going to be a great player.

"I think the next couple weeks when we get all the information and do all the behind-the-scenes, one-on-one work on these guys, there's a chance. You go and you get a private day with two or three of these guys, and there's a lot to learn when you work out a guy privately. But there's a chance we could move up."

During a one-hour interview, Gruden basically professed his affection for each player projected to go in the top five.

He compared the strength of LSU junior quarterback JaMarcus Russell with the savvy of Notre Dame senior Brady Quinn. He even said Adrian Peterson might be the "best back I've ever seen coming out of college."

And, yes, he made a case for taking the Oklahoma junior, even though the Bucs drafted Cadillac Williams high in 2005.

"Well, you never know. Look at the teams to win," he said. "You're looking at Corey Dillon and Laurence Maroney. You look at Thomas Jones and (Cedric) Benson or Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai. This is an important trait. If you're going to run the ball 35 or 40 times a game, there's a lot of love to spread around if you've got two great backs."

While Johnson didn't play in a pro-style offense, he demonstrated an ability to run crisp routes at his pro day workout. The Bucs plan to work out Russell and Quinn, although it seems unlikely they would take a quarterback after signing Jeff Garcia and trading for Jake Plummer. The only thing Gruden is sure of is that they will get a good player.

"The draft is no perfect science," he said. "There's going to be error. But you try to find a guy with as few holes as you can. There's got to be something the guy can't do. ... If the guy don't make it then there's going to be a lot of guys that are going to be wrong. I'd say that about the quarterbacks.

"And I personally think this running back might be the best back I've ever seen coming out of college. This is a punishing guy. You go back and watch him as a freshman. In nine games, he has 1,800 yards. This guy won't go out of bounds, every time he carries the ball he tries to hurt you. Bad. And he's fast and mean as hell. So we're going to get a good player there. It's just a matter of what we want to do.

"The kid, Joe Thomas from Wisconsin, is a hell of an offensive tackle. Are you kidding me? He's got a lot of upside. This is what we need in Tampa. We need to get a good player. Then we need to get another one and another one. Then we need to go to training camp and win some football games."

Source: http://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/29/Bucs/Gruden_hints_at_move_.shtml

Booger
03-29-2007, 11:50 AM
So he basically talked up the top 5 prospects, no big surprise. I'd pay more attention to the guys he isnt mentioning.

If CJ is gone, I really dont have a feel for what the Bucs will do.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-29-2007, 11:56 AM
I'll agree that it's probably a smokescreen, but I thought it was interesting the way he talked up a two-back system. We did use it with Pittman after all.

Booger
03-29-2007, 12:27 PM
Here is another quote from Gruden:

"We hope it's very competitive, but at the same time, I hope it's so clear and obvious to everybody who the quarterback should be we don't even have to think about it. We're going to let Chris Simms break the huddle as the starter April 10 in our OTA days, try to teach Jeff Garcia the offense and keep bringing [Bruce] Gradkowski along."

That should make etk happy, having Simms at the top of the depth chart. Although all it really means is that Garcia needs some more time with the playbook.

Gruden is really a great interview, got to love the guy.

Watchman
03-29-2007, 12:58 PM
Here is another quote from Gruden:

"We hope it's very competitive, but at the same time, I hope it's so clear and obvious to everybody who the quarterback should be we don't even have to think about it. We're going to let Chris Simms break the huddle as the starter April 10 in our OTA days, try to teach Jeff Garcia the offense and keep bringing [Bruce] Gradkowski along."

That should make etk happy, having Simms at the top of the depth chart. Although all it really means is that Garcia needs some more time with the playbook.

Gruden is really a great interview, got to love the guy.


Simms should be #1 on the depth chart right now. He's been in the system the longest, and has the most starts in Gruden's system. I don't think he'll be the starter once week 1 rolls around though. But the competition for starting QB should be really interesting this year.

etk
03-29-2007, 01:30 PM
This whole time I've been saying he's the obvious clear-cut starter, you guys were in denial if you thought he wasn't.

Booger
03-29-2007, 01:48 PM
This whole time I've been saying he's the obvious clear-cut starter, you guys were in denial if you thought he wasn't.

Yeah, if the season started tomorrow, Simms would likely start.

However, there is 5 months for Garcia to overtake Simms, and I would be surprised if it took that long.

The "clear-cut starter" Simms is not.

etk
03-29-2007, 02:15 PM
Explain how you think Garcia will "overtake" Simms?

Booger
03-29-2007, 02:39 PM
Explain how you think Garcia will "overtake" Simms?

The only reason Simms is currently slated as the #1 QB is because Garcia hasn't had a chance to learn the offense. When his level of comfort with the playbook and terminology is close to Simms, his playing ability will allow him to overtake Simms.

Honestly, throw some tape in of Simms from last season. I dont understand why you wouldnt want some QB competition.

etk
03-29-2007, 03:11 PM
The only reason Simms is currently slated as the #1 QB is because Garcia hasn't had a chance to learn the offense. When his level of comfort with the playbook and terminology is close to Simms, his playing ability will allow him to overtake Simms.

Honestly, throw some tape in of Simms from last season. I dont understand why you wouldnt want some QB competition.

I would be terrified if we didn't have a good backup at QB. Simms might continue his bad play from 06, or he might get injured again. Having Garcia is a nice luxury, but I wouldn't expect him to win over a starting job for opening day.

Caddy
03-29-2007, 04:15 PM
If Garcia can continue his form from last season why would you not want him to start?

etk
03-29-2007, 04:16 PM
If Garcia can continue his form from last season why would you not want him to start?

Because he is old and balding, and I'd like to see and evaluate the performance of Simms, our possible QB of the future. I think they are about equal though in terms of helping us win, so starting Garcia would not hurt the team by any means, but we have to evaluate Simms one way or the other.

Caddy
03-29-2007, 04:24 PM
Because he is old and balding, and I'd like to see and evaluate the performance of Simms, our possible QB of the future. I think they are about equal though in terms of helping us win, so starting Garcia would not hurt the team by any means, but we have to evaluate Simms one way or the other.

Old and balding has nothing to do with Garcia starting. If he is a better player than Simms and gives us the best opportunity to win, he must start.

etk
03-29-2007, 04:39 PM
Old and balding has nothing to do with Garcia starting. If he is a better player than Simms and gives us the best opportunity to win, he must start.

Okay, but we really have to see Simms play.

Garcia will retire soon, and if we don't see Simms play, we won't know whether or not he is the future. We could lose him, and then he becomes a Pro Bowler for X team. On the other hand, we could keep him and bypass drafting a QB, and then he absolutely blows and we are trapped for a full season.

Caddy
03-29-2007, 04:40 PM
We are obviously never going to come to a conlcusion, all we are doing is beating a metaphorical 'dead horse'.

Severe Punishment
03-29-2007, 04:41 PM
Because he is old and balding, and I'd like to see and evaluate the performance of Simms, our possible QB of the future. I think they are about equal though in terms of helping us win, so starting Garcia would not hurt the team by any means, but we have to evaluate Simms one way or the other.
hahahaha..so you hate on the guy for being bald ?.....honestly ?

Watchman
03-29-2007, 04:48 PM
This whole time I've been saying he's the obvious clear-cut starter, you guys were in denial if you thought he wasn't.

You are in denial if you think the teams moves in free agency point towards Simms as the clear cut starter. Simms should be #1 on the depth chart right now, but I don't think he will be come opening day. Good for him if he is, maybe he at long last prove he's the long term answer at QB. But, the evaluation of Simms is going into what, year 3. He is or he isn't.

etk
03-29-2007, 04:48 PM
hahahaha..so you hate on the guy for being bald ?.....honestly ?

No, i think he is a good QB, maybe if you read my other posts you would know what I meant. Him being bald is just funny, I don't really care but we need to evaluate our possible QBs of the future.

Severe Punishment
03-29-2007, 05:20 PM
I don't get at all how saying a guy is bald translates to NFL success...nor do I find it funny.

etk
03-29-2007, 05:25 PM
I don't get at all how saying a guy is bald translates to NFL success...nor do I find it funny.

I don't get how Quinn is a "prodigy", but I don't harass you about it on your team forum.....

Severe Punishment
03-29-2007, 05:31 PM
na, you save it for other forums ...what exactly is the difference ?
and way to deflect the conversation towards something completely irrelevant.

You hate on the guy for genetics ? why not hate him cuz he's tall or short or fat or has freckles ?... And you say it's "funny" to make fun of a guy for something he can't control ? wow. just wow.

etk
03-29-2007, 07:23 PM
na, you save it for other forums ...what exactly is the difference ?
and way to deflect the conversation towards something completely irrelevant.

You hate on the guy for genetics ? why not hate him cuz he's tall or short or fat or has freckles ?... And you say it's "funny" to make fun of a guy for something he can't control ? wow. just wow.

When did I ever say I hated Garcia?

Beans
03-29-2007, 07:33 PM
na, you save it for other forums ...what exactly is the difference ?
and way to deflect the conversation towards something completely irrelevant.

You hate on the guy for genetics ? why not hate him cuz he's tall or short or fat or has freckles ?... And you say it's "funny" to make fun of a guy for something he can't control ? wow. just wow.

Good lord, man, chill out. Do you have like fatal baldness or something? Did etk strike some personal chord? It's a joke about Jeff Garcia being bald, relax.

Caddy
03-30-2007, 01:24 AM
Jeff Garcia isn't even bald so this topic is void. The proof is right here :D

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1263/untitledhi0.png

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 01:51 AM
Good lord, man, chill out. Do you have like fatal baldness or something? Did etk strike some personal chord? It's a joke about Jeff Garcia being bald, relax.
You're completely missing the point.
It doesn't have to become personal to be an ignorant statement directed with an attitude that making fun of people is okay...and even beyond that, to think it's okay to try and publicaly try and embarrass someone for things that they don't or can't control, is just pathetic.
And "relax" ? I don't think biggotry is something people should "lay off"
because a few ignorant people find it funny. but hey, that might be just me.

etk
03-30-2007, 07:15 AM
You're completely missing the point.
It doesn't have to become personal to be an ignorant statement directed with an attitude that making fun of people is okay...and even beyond that, to think it's okay to try and publicaly try and embarrass someone for things that they don't or can't control, is just pathetic.
And "relax" ? I don't think biggotry is something people should "lay off"
because a few ignorant people find it funny. but hey, that might be just me.

Good lord, someone needs a hug.....

Booger
03-30-2007, 09:26 AM
You're completely missing the point.
It doesn't have to become personal to be an ignorant statement directed with an attitude that making fun of people is okay...and even beyond that, to think it's okay to try and publicaly try and embarrass someone for things that they don't or can't control, is just pathetic.
And "relax" ? I don't think biggotry is something people should "lay off"
because a few ignorant people find it funny. but hey, that might be just me.

It's a football message board, I think that you should relax.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-30-2007, 10:30 AM
Since when is a bald crack bigotry?

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 01:31 PM
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Since when is a bald crack bigotry?
Your phrasing is confusing. It leads the reader to believe that the standard has "always been" that it's allowable to remain biggoted against a specific group. When in reality the entire basis for being unbiased is to allow for all people to coexist without fears of retaliation.

It's a football message board, I think that you should relax. I promise you if someone on here, made a wiseassed crack about
someone's skin color, or religion...there would be a major debate. My point
is that ANY thing that can't be altered and changed to "fit in" shouldn't be mocked, riddiculed or joked at. When it becomes "okay" to poke fun at a specific group, then ALL groups become "fair game".

Good lord, someone needs a hug.....
And someone needs a reality check.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-30-2007, 03:37 PM
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.


Your phrasing is confusing. It leads the reader to believe that the standard has "always been" that it's allowable to remain biggoted against a specific group. When in reality the entire basis for being unbiased is to allow for all people to coexist without fears of retaliation.

By this backwards-*** logic, if I tell a blonde joke all of a sudden I hate blonde haired people? Do you realize how stupid you're sounding?

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 03:39 PM
In reality, that'd be true.
Anytime you segregate a group of people to bash or riddicule or mock, you are being discriminant.

And if you don't "get" that, do you realize how stupid that sounds ?

Tampa 2 4 life
03-30-2007, 03:44 PM
I bet you hate stand up comedians, right?

And with that I'll stop feeding the troll.

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 04:18 PM
people who bash a group aren't comics...they're bigots.

I have no problem with REAL comics. Nor do I have a problem if
they poke fun at themselves. However, classifying a group for the sake of
making fun of them isn't comedy it's hatred. I suppose, that sort
of "comedy" could be funny,if you have the mentality of an 8 year old.

And way to "be the better person"...by namecalling.
I'm guessing you're still in high school.

etk
03-30-2007, 05:33 PM
Someone needs to just loosen up and have some fun. I mean everyone jokes about their own kind, Garcia makes jokes about his baldness or how old he is. Sorry if not all posters on the message board have Ghandi-like morals, in your opinion.

Caddy
03-30-2007, 05:43 PM
I am generally the one arguing with a few of these guys but when did baldness become a race or ethnicity? :)

etk
03-30-2007, 05:45 PM
I am generally the one arguing with a few of these guys but when did baldness become a race or ethnicity? :)

When Severe Punishment was in a sensitive emo mood :).......

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 07:14 PM
I tell ya what, how about I spout off on how a certain skinny guy is this or that...or maybe someone of jewish faith, or perhaps a black guy.


Then we'll see if we all think it's fun and games.

Chucky
03-30-2007, 07:45 PM
I tell ya what, how about I spout off on how a certain skinny guy is this or that...or maybe someone of jewish faith, or perhaps a black guy.


Then we'll see if we all think it's fun and games.

being bald and being jewish, are completely different things, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing

ks_perfection
03-30-2007, 08:42 PM
I tell ya what, how about I spout off on how a certain skinny guy is this or that...or maybe someone of jewish faith, or perhaps a black guy.


Then we'll see if we all think it's fun and games.

You will not. We don't want that trash in this forum.

Severe Punishment
03-30-2007, 08:59 PM
You will not. We don't want that trash in this forum.So bashing is reserved for men that are white and bald ?...hello hypocrites.

etk
03-30-2007, 09:05 PM
I tell ya what, how about I spout off on how a certain skinny guy is this or that...or maybe someone of jewish faith, or perhaps a black guy.


Then we'll see if we all think it's fun and games.

Go ahead, spout off on jews, I won't be a little wuss about it.

etk
04-02-2007, 02:46 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/01/Bucs/Bucs_promising_Simms_.shtml

Gruden is great at smokescreens, he says there's a good chance we will take Russell, Quinn or AD. If CJ isn't available, we will probably find takers to trade down, because nobody has a clue who we would pick, and teams don't want to risk it.

But make no mistake, Gruden longs to have the same starting quarterback for more than one season. He has had seven since he arrived in 2002.

"You're on a new team every year when you change quarterbacks," he said. "It's no fun, really. You're not going to reach the real promised land in terms of all your efforts until you're two or three or four years into the relationship."

All the more reason to stick with Simms :)

Booger
04-02-2007, 03:28 PM
All the more reason to stick with Simms :)

Simms has been here what, 5 years? IMO, the 2-year deal says a lot about Gruden's level of confidence in Simms. If Simms hadnt gotten injured last season, there is little doubt in my mind that he would have walked away on the open market. The fact that Simms got hurt kinda squashed his market value, allowing the Bucs to give him another shot at a fair price. Add that to the fact that we have no other QBs on the roster who have the ability to start if our FA acquisition (Garcia) cant get a good grasp on the offense.

I think that Simms was ultimately retained by default, and I wouldnt be surprised at all to see a QB selected at #4 overall.

Say we draft Quinn at #4 overall, and trade Simms for a late second/early third round pick, we can still add 4 defensive players on day 1 of the draft.

Caddy
04-02-2007, 04:26 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/01/Bucs/Bucs_promising_Simms_.shtml

Gruden is great at smokescreens, he says there's a good chance we will take Russell, Quinn or AD.

AD.. We better not take AD