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Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 09:30 AM
I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, but it's my prediction that the Carolina Panthers are going to win the NFC South by a landslide this year. I am predicting a 12-4 season with a 1st round Bye in the playoffs.

Also, if they could somehow move up and grab Morris Claiborne, they'd have all the pieces in place for a Championship run.

Anyone see the Saints or Bucs as the favorites?

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 09:55 AM
Not if Cam Newton ends up on the cover of Madden... but I do agree. The Saints are going to suck because of the debacle of this off season and they were overrated anyway plus the super bowl hosting curse, the Bucs have young talent but who knows, and the Falcons are just bleh to me. So yes, I could definitely see the Panthers doing some damage if Newton isn't on the cover.

As a Lions fan you better hope Cam gets the cover of Madden, because you obviously don't want Calvin on there.

Rosebud
04-21-2012, 10:02 AM
Eh, I actually expect the Giants to loss to them next year, but that D was absolutely pathetic last year, I expect it to be better but I don't expect it yet to be good. Add a little sophomore slump, the thin receiving corps and I think ultimately Carolina ends up around 6-7 wins, but I wouldn't be shocked if they squeezed 9 wins out of this season.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 10:12 AM
Let's take baby steps first. First get a over .500 record first. I'd be VERY surprised if your prediction came true. But it's football, so it very well could happen. I just don't expect it.

jojo
04-21-2012, 10:27 AM
Let's take baby steps first. First get a over .500 record first. I'd be VERY surprised if your prediction came true. But it's football, so it very well could happen. I just don't expect it.

Like in life itself, in the NFL you have to always take the long, hard, uphill road to success.

I say 7-9/8-8/9-7, welcome to mediocrity. Yes as NY+G says it's possible For Carolina to see the playoffs but not probable. They need to elevate the overall talent level of that team to contend in the brutal NFCS, maybe a little less competitive since everyone thinks the Saints will tank it due to the bounty hunting suspensions & the consensus thinks that hands the division to the Falcons, already a playoff team who made a quantum leap in talent with last yr's tradeup for Julio Jones that was very expensive with the huge down pymt. in this draft.

I was 100% wrong about Cam Newton being a bust, I admit it, but so were a lot a people. Have to give kudos to Rivera's coaching staff for prepping him to perform at the NFL level in such an abbreviated training camp, & Newton took most of it on himself to win games they were no way, shape or form favored to win as the talent level was obviously subpar there.

So as for the Panthers, we'll see:waiting:

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Like in life itself, in the NFL you have to always take the long, hard, uphill road to success.

I say 7-9/8-8/9-7, welcome to mediocrity. Yes as NY+G says it's possible For Carolina to see the playoffs but not probable. They need to elevate the overall talent level of that team to contend in the brutal NFCS, maybe a little less competitive since everyone thinks the Saints will tank it due to the bounty hunting suspensions & the consensus thinks that hands the division to the Falcons, already a playoff team who made a quantum leap in talent with last yr's tradeup for Julio Jones that was very expensive with the huge down pymt. in this draft.

I was 100% wrong about Cam Newton being a bust, I admit it, but so were a lot a people. Have to give kudos to Rivera's coaching staff for prepping him to perform at the NFL level in such an abbreviated training camp, & Newton took most of it on himself to win games they were no way, shape or form favored to win as the talent level was obviously subpar there.

So as for the Panthers, we'll see:waiting:

I learned a long time ago when I started watching all sports, that nothing is impossible. So they could make the playoffs, but like I said I'd be VERY surprised. I keep a realistic mentally and temper my expectations accordingly. So if I was a Panthers fan, I'd just want baby steps. Next step .500 or best case over .500 record. If that happens I'd be happy with the progress.

Cam had a good first year, but I also learned good or bad, I wait to evaluate QBs. He just like any player can be good early on and stink later. Or the opposite can happen where a QB struggles and gets better as he learns. So I hold on off on evaluating QBs until a couple years. That even includes good or bad early on.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 10:34 AM
If they're better than the other teams in their division, why do they have to finish around 8/8 just because they were **** 2 years ago? That doesnt make any sense.

If the Panthers draft well there isnt much in their way of them winning the NFC South. The Saints dont have any picks in the first two rounds and they lost a lot of talent through free agency, the Falcons dont have a first round pick and they arent that good anyway and the Bucs are just the Bucs.

Most teams would take longer than 2 years to go from drafting #1 to the playoffs, but most teams dont draft Cam Newton and then see their division rivals get worse over the off season.

tjsunstein
04-21-2012, 10:36 AM
I like the Falcons personally but the Saints wont just roll over.

NorrinRadd12
04-21-2012, 10:36 AM
I'm a Bucs fan and agree that Carolina will win the division. New Orleans has alot going against them, Atlanta will be solid as usual but not good enough and the Bucs just stink.

Bulldogs
04-21-2012, 10:45 AM
The division is looking pretty solid all-around this season. Should be interesting. I can't wait to see Matt Ryan and Julio Jones with a full offseason to work together.

PoopSandwich
04-21-2012, 11:18 AM
I see the Bears as the team to shock everyone this year.

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 12:00 PM
I agree the Saints won't just roll over and die this year, but it was already a very competitive division last season. With Sean Payton gone for a year, and with Gregg Williams out, this team just entered into a mini-transitional state, so to speak. Obviously the HC will be back, but the defense will have a different look this year, and they'll obviously be tightly scrutinized. Not that that makes a difference if they are still winning.

It might be a bad investment to bet against Drew Brees, but I don't see them being a dominating force without their Head Coach.

The Falcons are a good football team, but they were really just average running the football last year, and I'm starting to think that Michael Turner is getting a little burnt out. The defense was good up front, but they had secondary issues which they won't be able to address early in the draft this year either. I don't see them improving much.

The Bucs are kinda the dark horse. Obviously Freeman kinda had a Sophomore slump year, but I think he's overall a pretty solid starting QB. They don't come much tougher than him. If they can get consistent production out of the backfield, they might threaten for the Division Crown.

Overall, I just think Carolina is in the best position to make huge strides this year. Assuming Cam has another productive season, they are already very talented offensively. They brought back Steve Smith, they still have DeAngelo running the ball pretty well, and I anticipate they'll draft a complimentary receiver at some point. I think Brian Quick would be a great fit for them. Defensively, they paid a king's ransom to keep Charles Johnson, which is fine, he's a good player. They really just need to add some help defensively in the draft, and you know Rivera is a defensive minded guy.

6-10 to 10-6 is plausible. Especially when you consider the circumstances within the division.

Rosebud
04-21-2012, 12:16 PM
Saints might be better this year with Spags running the D. Also they didn't really lose that much in FA and still have the key pieces, strong OL and ground game, Drew Brees with good weapons. Atlanta's still very solid and a year ago the Bucs where a young up n coming team. If they rtespond well to the new staff, grow mentally tougher and draft well they could win the division to. Carolina has a shot since I see this as a very tight division, but they're the underdogs going in barring a great draft and the Bucs ******** the bed.

Don Vito
04-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Only because of Greg Hardy

MasterShake
04-21-2012, 01:06 PM
I see it completely differently.

I see Cam Newton regressing heavily in passing. Teams will have him figured out and he will have to do most of his damage running. Think mike vicks early years.

Cam Newton and the panthers will be fun to watch but he will continously have them just missing the playoffs. Or 1 and done.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 01:09 PM
Dont forget Cam Newton didnt even have an offseason to prepare. If he does regress, i think it will be only very slightly.

And its pretty hard to stop Cam Newton. He's accurate, he has a strong arm and he can run.

MasterShake
04-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Dont forget Cam Newton didnt even have an offseason to prepare. If he does regress, i think it will be only very slightly.

And its pretty hard to stop Cam Newton. He's accurate, he has a strong arm and he can run.

Its pretty hard to know for sure after 1 year, but with Cam Newton I get the feel that He will be too mistake prone similar to Romo and Cutler. This will have them in the playoff chase every year, but probably wont win it all.

niel89
04-21-2012, 01:34 PM
Maybe, but it still is a huge up hill battle. Their 6 wins last year were not that impressive (Jax, Was, Ind, TB x2, Hou), granted they were also very competitive in a lot of other games too.

The Saints will slip a little but I think to around 10-6. They will still have Brees and that offense. The Falcons will still be solid and consistent. They have the best shot at winning the division imo. TB hopefully can't be worse.

The Panthers might be a better team next year and have less wins honestly. Newton might regress even though there isn't an obvious reason at this point. The defense still isn't great and the really need another receiver because if Smith gets shut down/injured I'm not sure where they go with the ball.

Saints-Tigers
04-21-2012, 03:00 PM
The Saints didn't lose anything in FA. We had a big win in FA. Carl Nicks would be a big loss, but replacing him with Ben Grubbs was really nice. Meachem is JAG, and is like the 5th or 6th option in our passing game anyway.

We added more than we lost for sure, lets see what happens with the player suspensions.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 03:18 PM
The Saints didn't lose anything in FA. We had a big win in FA. Carl Nicks would be a big loss, but replacing him with Ben Grubbs was really nice. Meachem is JAG, and is like the 5th or 6th option in our passing game anyway.

We added more than we lost for sure, lets see what happens with the player suspensions.

Super Bowl hosting curse, and you guys just aren't that good anyway. Combine all of that with the bounty scandal... the Panthers could easily beat you for the division.

Jvig43
04-21-2012, 03:20 PM
Not to mention the NFL is rigged so obviously the Saints will start fumbling on the one yard line and get punts blocked in the 4th quarter.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 03:24 PM
Not to mention the NFL is rigged so obviously the Saints will start fumbling on the one yard line and get punts blocked in the 4th quarter.

You think so? They will probably lose in some fishy ways because of the super bowl hosting curse... but I doubt it will be in that fashion.

You are a patriots fan though... sucks to suck right? The sports world is going to be such a better place when the patriots are back to going 4-12 every year.

AHHHH I LOVE IT!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 03:41 PM
I think it's probably Atlanta's division to lose this year. NO still has the talent, but you can't win with a Coach By Committee atmosphere. That won't work. Plus the distractions are just going to weigh heavily on the team. It's a throwaway year for them.

Carolina has the offense, but that defense was awful last year. I don't get why they hired Sean McDermott as DC, he was an awful DC in Philly. They need a talent overhaul on defense.

I can see 8-8, maybe better with a good draft. But right here right now, I gotta go with Atlanta.

Atlanta will make the playoffs and have another 1 and done postseason. They just aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 03:45 PM
If they can find two starters on defense, through the draft, i think they'll make a big push towards winning that division.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 03:50 PM
I see the Bears as the team to shock everyone this year.
Not to get too far off-topic, but would that really be a shock to anyone? The Bears almost made the Superbowl two years ago and were doing very well until Cutler and Forte got hurt. I still think they are a top 10 NFL team.

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 03:52 PM
The Bears and Packers both come out of the NFCN. I think the Lions take a step back.

That defense is going to need an overhaul soon though. Those linebackers can't play at an elite level forever. And without Briggs and Urlacher controlling the middle of the field, that defense won't be any good.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 03:54 PM
The Bears and Packers both come out of the NFCN. I think the Lions take a step back.

That defense is going to need an overhaul soon though. Those linebackers can't play at an elite level forever. And without Briggs and Urlacher controlling the middle of the field, that defense won't be any good.
Yeah, the window is 2-3 years for this team.

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 04:00 PM
Yeah, the window is 2-3 years for this team.

Not necessarily. I'd say that's the window for this defense. The offense on the other hand will continue to get better and better over the next 2 to 3 years.

It all depends on how well you draft. The team can be overhauled and not miss a beat as long as you draft well for the next 2 years. Guys will step in and replace the aging guys if they draft well.

Saints-Tigers
04-21-2012, 04:14 PM
Super Bowl hosting curse, and you guys just aren't that good anyway. Combine all of that with the bounty scandal... the Panthers could easily beat you for the division.

LOl. We're kinda good... could be worse.

CJSchneider
04-21-2012, 04:31 PM
Super Bowl hosting curse, and you guys just aren't that good anyway. Combine all of that with the bounty scandal... the Panthers could easily beat you for the division.

Do you even watch football?

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 04:52 PM
Do you even watch football?

Do you? I have no respect for the saints at all. They're very beatable. If fact, if I had to choose 10 teams i'd most want to play they would probably be in my top 5. Jimmy Graham is a freak, but mehhh. I don't care if you improved your linebackers that defense is still child's play. At least Gregg Williams left.. never understood why he was though of as a good defensive coordinator, he's pathetic.

Not to mention the Saints and their little story is annoying now too. Katrina is over with and they won their super bowl... ESPN blowing them any chance they get is old now. I wanted them to win that Super Bowl just as much as anyone cause I hate Peyton Manning, but it's done with. Ending your perfect season that year in the superdome was fun though.

Anyway, sucks that we have to wait till week 16 to kick your ass. Hopefully the game even means something.

CJSchneider
04-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Remind me who you played against in the play-offs last year?

niel89
04-21-2012, 05:10 PM
Not to get too far off-topic, but would that really be a shock to anyone? The Bears almost made the Superbowl two years ago and were doing very well until Cutler and Forte got hurt. I still think they are a top 10 NFL team.

Bears are a top 10 team that I always forget about and underrate. The defense is still great, but in my mind its Cutler & Forte and nothing else on offense to be afraid of. Marshal pairing back up with Cutler is gonna be awesome. He is gonna get a ton of passes each game. Force feed him the ball.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 05:13 PM
Remind me who you played against in the play-offs last year?

:facepalm:

You lost... who cares? All you have is a worse draft pick to show for it. I love people who try to brag about making the playoffs if their team didn't win the super bowl. Jets fans bragging about two AFC title losses gets me the most. Who gives a ****? Two can play that game though. Remind me how good your franchise is? How many rings do you have?

Besides, you barely beat us in 2010 with John Kitna at QB when the team was 3-7... If Roy Williams wasn't the epitome of fail and doesn't fumble the Cowboys win. We kicked the **** out of you when you were 13-0 in your house.

The Cowboys roster is infinitely better than the Saints lol. :gtfo:

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 05:19 PM
At least the Saints had the chance to win the Superbowl.

Its funny how you try to mock the Saints when you support the Cowboys, the most underachieving, useless, piece of **** team in the league.

What makes the Saints roster so much worse than the Cowboys? They have Drew Brees and you have Tony Romo... [/discussion]

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 05:19 PM
I think the NFC North will be one of the most competitive divisions. I don't have high expectations for the Vikings, but aside from them, there's going to be a fiery competition in that division.

niel89
04-21-2012, 05:19 PM
:facepalm:

You lost... who cares? All you have is a worse draft pick to show for it. I love people who try to brag about making the playoffs if their team didn't win the super bowl. Jets fans bragging about two AFC title losses gets me the most. Who gives a ****? Two can play that game though. Remind me how good your franchise is? How many rings do you have?

Besides, you barely beat us in 2010 with John Kitna at QB when the team was 3-7... If Roy Williams wasn't the epitome of fail and doesn't fumble the Cowboys win. We kicked the **** out of you when you were 13-0 in your house.

The Cowboys roster is infinitely better than the Saints lol. :gtfo:

And yet the Saints are still the better team. Any way you cut it 13-3 > 8-8.

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 05:26 PM
Besides, you barely beat us in 2010 with John Kitna at QB when the team was 3-7... If Roy Williams wasn't the epitome of fail and doesn't fumble the Cowboys win. We kicked the **** out of you when you were 13-0 in your house.

Is it just me or are most Cowboys fans as diluted about their team as Jerry Jones is? Cowboys have been painstakingly average for the last 10 years. Every year it's the same thing, people talking about Dallas winning the division. Every year it's the same thing, Cowboys failing to make playoff appearances.

6 winning seasons in 12 years further reinforces my point. Painfully average.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 05:32 PM
Its funny how you try to mock the Saints when you support the Cowboys, the most underachieving, useless, piece of **** team in the league.
http://www.fatzkendog.de/clap.gif

Raiderz4Life
04-21-2012, 05:33 PM
Wow...SP showing his fangs haha

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 05:36 PM
At least the Saints had the chance to win the Superbowl.

Its funny how you try to mock the Saints when you support the Cowboys, the most underachieving, useless, piece of **** team in the league.

What makes the Saints roster so much worse than the Cowboys? They have Drew Brees and you have Tony Romo... [/discussion]

Just because I love Newcastle and the season they are having, I shall not retaliate. Romo is a baller though.

To Bearfan_51... I don't know if you should just be banned or actually hunted, castrated, and killed for posting a GIF of Ryan Gosling. I don't even know how to describe the epic fail of that.

:facepalm:

jojo
04-21-2012, 05:38 PM
Is it just me or are most Cowboys fans as diluted about their team as Jerry Jones is? Cowboys have been painstakingly average for the last 10 years. Every year it's the same thing, people talking about Dallas winning the division. Every year it's the same thing, Cowboys failing to make playoff appearances.

6 winning seasons in 12 years further reinforces my point. Painfully average.

Actually I can speak to that. I'm a Dallas fan & date back to the Ice Bowl (we lost that too).

Yes it's been BEYOND disappointing to have that talent level & be average AT BEST the last few yrs. I wanted to bitchslap Garret when the coaching staff lost that game in Zona last yr. :suicide:

I think he caved under the pressure of Jerry looking over his shoulder, I know it comes with the job, but he grew up in the team his whole life & s/b a master at manipulating Jerry as well as at game strategy & management. He choked at both last season, so I still don't crown him as NFL HC material..... yet. Win a playoff game then we'll talk you damn ginger

Raiderz4Life
04-21-2012, 05:38 PM
Just because I love Newcastle and the season they are having, I shall not retaliate. Romo is a baller though.

To Bearfan_51... I don't know if you should just be banned or actually hunted, castrated, and killed for posting a GIF of Ryan Gosling. I don't even know how to describe the epic fail of that.

:facepalm:

Think you're the only one failing right now tbh.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 05:42 PM
A fan has the right to talk about their team playing in the playoffs. That's a step closer to the super bowl. The football season is marathon so if you get a ticket to the tourney then as a fan you should be proud.

It means things are headed in the right direction. Fans have right to be happy about that. I don't personally mind when fans bring up going to playoffs. If they get their butt owned in the first round, then it becomes funny, but still making it is a good thing. There team is on the right path. Now all they have to do is take that next step.

The Jets liked the fact they were deep in the playoffs and we were not. So they used that. So when we beat the 49ers, we took a shot at them

Following Sunday night's 20-17 win over the 49ers, the Giants official Twitter account, @Giants, posted a message that may have been a dig at their cross-town rivals. It tweeted:

Some teams are really happy getting to Conference Championship games, but #ImReallyGoodAt winning them! 5-0 all time! #ALLIN

Scotty D
04-21-2012, 05:43 PM
The Bears and Packers both come out of the NFCN. I think the Lions take a step back.

That defense is going to need an overhaul soon though. Those linebackers can't play at an elite level forever. And without Briggs and Urlacher controlling the middle of the field, that defense won't be any good.

Why? They didn't lose anybody.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 05:45 PM
Actually I can speak to that. I'm a Dallas fan & date back to the Ice Bowl (we lost that too).

Yes it's been BEYOND disappointing to have that talent level & be average AT BEST the last few yrs. I wanted to bitchslap Garret when the coaching staff lost that game in Zona last yr. :suicide:

I think he caved under the pressure of Jerry looking over his shoulder, I know it comes with the job, but he grew up in the team his whole life & s/b a master at manipulating Jerry as well as at game strategy & management. He choked at both last season, so I still don't crown him as NFL HC material..... yet. Win a playoff game then we'll talk you damn ginger
The Cowboys are never as talented as they and their fans think they are; it's a process of media inflation.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 05:45 PM
A fan has the right to talk about their team playing in the playoffs. That's a step closer to the super bowl. The football season is marathon so if you get a ticket to the tourney then as a fan you should be proud.

It means things are headed in the right direction. Fans have right to be happy about that. I don't personally mind when fans bring up going to playoffs. If they get their butt owned in the first round, then it becomes funny, but still making it is a good thing. There team is on the right path. Now all they have to do is take that next step.

That's debatable. For starters, usually half the teams that make the playoffs one year don't make it the next so it isn't exactly a precursor to future super bowl success. I'd rather just look at the quality of the team instead of did they make the playoffs or not.

I do understand that only 1 team out of 32 wins the super bowl but I don't really believe in bragging about the playoffs. 32 teams is way to many anyway. Expanding to 34 or more would just be ********, but that's for another discussion.

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Why? They didn't lose anybody.

I just think that the Packers are a lock for the playoffs barring any injuries, and the Bears if healthy will be a superior team.

Perhaps saying "taking a step back" was the wrong way of putting it. But from an overall talent point of view, I think the Bears and Packers will be more talented heading into the season than the Lions.

That secondary is just awful. The Lions need some DBs in the worst way. And a run game. The draft can change my perspective, of course nothing is set in stone now it all depends on the draft, but right here right now I think the Bears and Packers are more talented.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 05:47 PM
Why? They didn't lose anybody.

But the Bears got better. No doubt you're the 3rd best team in the division atm.

You still have a great shot at the playoffs though, which says something about this division.

Scotty D
04-21-2012, 05:49 PM
Eh...you guys give the Bears too much credit. It all starts QB anyway and Stafford > Cutler.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 05:50 PM
No he's not. Put Megatron on the Bears and Cutler will put up better stats.

Also, you did lose Eric Wright, although that's not much of a loss.

Also (again), had Culter and Forte not gotten hurt, it's arguable if the Lions were better than the Bears last year.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 05:51 PM
Eh...you guys give the Bears too much credit. It all starts QB anyway and Stafford > Cutler.

We still have to see Cutler with Brandon Marshall to fairly judge that. I wouldn't say Stafford and Cutler are too far apart.

And the Bears have the edge with the defense, so i think they're better right now.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 05:52 PM
No he's not. Switch the Bears receivers with the Lions receivers and Cutler will put up better stats.

I will agree with this. Give Cutler Megatron and Pettigrew and see what happens. Give Stafford the d2 receiving crew Cutler has had to work with and I doubt he is as successful.

Raiderz4Life
04-21-2012, 05:52 PM
Eh...you guys give the Bears too much credit. It all starts QB anyway and Stafford > Cutler.

No....not at all. Cutler over Stafford any day.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 05:53 PM
That's debatable. For starters, usually half the teams that make the playoffs one year don't make it the next so it isn't exactly a precursor to future super bowl success. I'd rather just look at the quality of the team instead of did they make the playoffs or not.

I do understand that only 1 team out of 32 wins the super bowl but I don't really believe in bragging about the playoffs. 32 teams is way to many anyway. Expanding to 34 or more would just be ********, but that's for another discussion.

No, but it shows they are made it through the rigors and grind of the regular season, and now in the tourney to get and hopefully win the SB. Usually other factors are added to the fact they don't make it to the playoffs.

Coaching
Injuries
schedule
and then underachieving.

But if a team makes it to the playoffs then they have a right to talk about it. If the fan of the other team wants to get them back, beat them, or have their team make it to the playoffs and hope their team doesn't for that year.

But like I said, I don't mind if a fan talks about their team making it.

prock
04-21-2012, 05:58 PM
CDCB is proving, once again, that stereotypes come from somewhere. Typical Cowboys fans...

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Cutler is the most underrated qb on this forum.

Stafford can become better than Cutler, but I'm not ready to say that yet. Give me another year.

Both are very good fwiw. I think that the Bears just have a better defense, and they both have comparable offenses. So the Bears get the edge to me

prock
04-21-2012, 06:01 PM
The Bears are gonna be real good this year if they stay healthy and that line is competent. Neither is a certainty.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 06:07 PM
CDCB is proving, once again, that stereotypes come from somewhere. Typical Cowboys fans...

Or the Saints are just bad.. but you can have it your way.

cmarq83
04-21-2012, 06:09 PM
Cutler has gone from underrated to overrated very quickly on here. I like the guy and would put him somewhere around the top 10 for QB's, but I think Stafford has clearly surpassed him. Cutler 6 years in the league still has more flaws in his game than I would like to see.

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 06:11 PM
Jay is never going to wow you with his footwork or mechanics. That's just not who he is.

But considering how well he was playing last year with a D2 league WR core, and a high school OL, I think he's actually become underrated.

He's on the same level as Phillip Rivers to me.

prock
04-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Or the Saints are just bad.. but you can have it your way.

Well, they have Drew Brees, so I won't call them bad. Their defense isn't good, but that doesn't make them a bad team. And I ******* hate the Saints.

Either way, the Cowboys are still the most underachieving team in the league, year in and year out.

Scotty D
04-21-2012, 06:15 PM
Cutler is the most underrated qb on this forum.

Stafford can become better than Cutler, but I'm not ready to say that yet. Give me another year.

Both are very good fwiw. I think that the Bears just have a better defense, and they both have comparable offenses. So the Bears get the edge to me

Stafford threw for 5k and had 41 TDs last year. Cutler has never had over 27. Cutler is not better than Stafford. Cutler is good for around 3,500 yards and 25 TDs. Better than a lot of QBs in the NFL but he's not better than Stafford.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 06:17 PM
Cutler has gone from underrated to overrated very quickly on here. I like the guy and would put him somewhere around the top 10 for QB's, but I think Stafford has clearly surpassed him. Cutler 6 years in the league still has more flaws in his game than I would like to see.
I don't think Cutler is a top 6-7 quarterback, but neither is Stafford. Stafford has put together one good season, and he had the best wide receiver in the NFL to help him.

bigbluedefense
04-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Stafford threw for 5k and had 41 TDs last year. Cutler has never had over 27. Cutler is not better than Stafford. Cutler is good for around 3,500 yards and 25 TDs. Better than a lot of QBs in the NFL but he's not better than Stafford.

Again, Cutler had awful WRs and one of the worst if not THE worst OL in the league.

When your best WR is Knox, you have a problem. You can't compare the numbers, Stafford has an infinitely more talented supporting cast on offense than Cutler.

I'm not saying Stafford is a bad qb. I just need to see a bigger sample size. I think they're very similar, and Stafford has potential to surprass him, but can we get another good year out of Stafford before we rub him down with the anointing oil?

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Well, they have Drew Brees, so I won't call them bad. Their defense isn't good, but that doesn't make them a bad team. And I ******* hate the Saints.

Either way, the Cowboys are still the most underachieving team in the league, year in and year out.

That's a false statement that gets ridiculously overblown by ESPN and the rest of the media just because the Cowboys are the Cowboys.

How about the chargers all of these years? what about peyton manning and the colts and all of their choke jobs before they finally beat the rex grossman led bears....?

There are 32 teams and only 1 wins the super bowl every year. The Cowboys failures get ridiculously overblown because they get ratings so they are always on. That's it. Going 8-8 last year wasn't a ridiculous underachievement. The secondary was terrible and/or hurt all the time, no one could generate a pass rush outside of DeMarcus Ware, our ILB's besides Sean Lee already had AARP cards and couldn't cover a statue in a phone booth to go along with pathetic run support, and you could probably find a d2 college team with a better interior OL than ours.

They used free agency to improve a lot of those things and they still have the draft. Add a healthy Miles Austin and DeMarco Murray to that and they should be much improved.

If what happens to the Cowboys happened to a team like the Jaguars they wouldn't be seen as some classic underachiever they would be looked at as a team with talent who isn't all the way there yet. That is 100% true and you can't deny that. It's all about perception.

I don't want to turn this into a Cowboys or Cowboys vs. Saints thread so that is all i'll say on the subject.

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 06:19 PM
Stafford threw for 5k and had 41 TDs last year. Cutler has never had over 27. Cutler is not better than Stafford. Cutler is good for around 3,500 yards and 25 TDs. Better than a lot of QBs in the NFL but he's not better than Stafford.

Look at the resources. We cant tell who is better because Cutler is playing with the worst offensive line in the league and a bottom 5 set of receivers.

Cutler is a very talented quarterback.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 06:25 PM
Look at the resources. We cant tell who is better because Cutler is playing with the worst offensive line in the league and a bottom 5 set of receivers.

Cutler is a very talented quarterback.

I don't mind Cutler. I want to see more of him and see what he can do. Same with Stafford as well. I think the fact he is 23 or so is a great thing, and can turn out to be even more productive as he gets older. Both are good QBs, and any team would be happy with them.

Raiderz4Life
04-21-2012, 06:32 PM
Stafford threw for 5k and had 41 TDs last year. Cutler has never had over 27. Cutler is not better than Stafford. Cutler is good for around 3,500 yards and 25 TDs. Better than a lot of QBs in the NFL but he's not better than Stafford.

Because numbers are everything, got it.

niel89
04-21-2012, 06:34 PM
That's a false statement that gets ridiculously overblown by ESPN and the rest of the media just because the Cowboys are the Cowboys.

How about the chargers all of these years? what about peyton manning and the colts and all of their choke jobs before they finally beat the rex grossman led bears....?

There are 32 teams and only 1 wins the super bowl every year. The Cowboys failures get ridiculously overblown because they get ratings so they are always on. That's it. Going 8-8 last year wasn't a ridiculous underachievement. The secondary was terrible and/or hurt all the time, no one could generate a pass rush outside of DeMarcus Ware, our ILB's besides Sean Lee already had AARP cards and couldn't cover a statue in a phone booth to go along with pathetic run support, and you could probably find a d2 college team with a better interior OL than ours.

They used free agency to improve a lot of those things and they still have the draft. Add a healthy Miles Austin and DeMarco Murray to that and they should be much improved.

If what happens to the Cowboys happened to a team like the Jaguars they wouldn't be seen as some classic underachiever they would be looked at as a team with talent who isn't all the way there yet. That is 100% true and you can't deny that. It's all about perception.

I don't want to turn this into a Cowboys or Cowboys vs. Saints thread so that is all i'll say on the subject.

If the Cowboys are infinitely more talented than the Saints and then they did considerably worse than the Saints, how is that not a massive underachievement?

Also, Panthers thread = Saints v Cowboys & Cutler v Stafford haha

SuperPacker
04-21-2012, 06:35 PM
If the Cowboys are infinitely more talented than the Saints and then they did considerably worse than the Saints, how is that not a massive underachievement?

Also, Panthers thread = Saints v Cowboys & Cutler v Stafford haha

Haha yeah :D probably because there are like zero Panthers fans on this board.

niel89
04-21-2012, 06:38 PM
Haha yeah :D probably because there are like zero Panthers fans on this board.

There are few I think. I can only remember BlindSite who isn't even around anymore really. I think Jake Delhomme broke his spirit.

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 06:43 PM
A fan has the right to talk about their team playing in the playoffs. That's a step closer to the super bowl. The football season is marathon so if you get a ticket to the tourney then as a fan you should be proud.

It means things are headed in the right direction. Fans have right to be happy about that. I don't personally mind when fans bring up going to playoffs. If they get their butt owned in the first round, then it becomes funny, but still making it is a good thing. There team is on the right path. Now all they have to do is take that next step.

The Jets liked the fact they were deep in the playoffs and we were not. So they used that. So when we beat the 49ers, we took a shot at them

That's only true when you're new to the tourney. A team like Philly was in the early 00's, just can't get over the hump. A team like Detroit, they have things to be really excited about. And I don't think we see them take a step back this year. I think with a full training camp their 2nd year players will be that much better. I'm specifically excited about Titus Young as a PR/KR this year.

Iamcanadian
04-21-2012, 06:46 PM
Carolina has a very tough road to get by. I love Newton and think he will be great but it is usually year 3 before a QB fully adjusts to the pro game.
New Orleans will likely take a huge drop with their coaching staff in ruins but Atlanta is still front and center and Tampa Bay should rebound pretty solidly.
I think it will be the following season before Carolina dominates the NFC South.

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 06:49 PM
Carolina has a very tough road to get by. I love Newton and think he will be great but it is usually year 3 before a QB fully adjusts to the pro game.
New Orleans will likely take a huge drop with their coaching staff in ruins but Atlanta is still front and center and Tampa Bay should rebound pretty solidly.
I think it will be the following season before Carolina dominates the NFC South.

I think that statement is solely dependent on whether or not the Panthers are able to maintain a top 5 rushing offense again this year. Word is, they may be shopping Jonathan Stewart during the draft. If they pick up a 2nd rounder for this guy, and can add 2-3 defensive contributors, they will contend.

Iamcanadian
04-21-2012, 06:55 PM
I think that statement is solely dependent on whether or not the Panthers are able to maintain a top 5 rushing offense again this year. Word is, they may be shopping Jonathan Stewart during the draft. If they pick up a 2nd rounder for this guy, and can add 2-3 defensive contributors, they will contend.

I think they could contend as well, just saying, it is one tough division where success won't come easily.

Asteinebach
04-21-2012, 07:00 PM
I think they could contend as well, just saying, it is one tough division where success won't come easily.

Agreed. (10 char)

VAfy-ya
04-21-2012, 07:41 PM
Again, Cutler had awful WRs and one of the worst if not THE worst OL in the league.

When your best WR is Knox, you have a problem. You can't compare the numbers, Stafford has an infinitely more talented supporting cast on offense than Cutler.

I'm not saying Stafford is a bad qb. I just need to see a bigger sample size. I think they're very similar, and Stafford has potential to surprass him, but can we get another good year out of Stafford before we rub him down with the anointing oil?

But he has a uber talented RB which helps him more, considering Stafford has no one in the backfield to help take some burden off the passing game. The fact that Stafford had virtually no run game all year, and teams still couldnt stop him from putting up ridiculous numbers every week helps his case. But honestly, I think Cutler = Stafford. They're pretty much the same QB in my eyes.

dj825
04-21-2012, 07:56 PM
I think Jake Delhomme broke his spirit.

he broke all of our spirits....i think Carolina could win the division but i still dont know about our defense mainly our run defense. if we do win the division i still dont see us winning more than 9 games due to our defense and continued lack of a number 2 receiver.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 07:59 PM
But he has a uber talented RB which helps him more, considering Stafford has no one in the backfield to help take some burden off the passing game. The fact that Stafford had virtually no run game all year, and teams still couldnt stop him from putting up ridiculous numbers every week helps his case. But honestly, I think Cutler = Stafford. They're pretty much the same QB in my eyes.

Well we had no run game either. But that's when it comes down to the offensive play calling and system. We wanted to stick to balance as much as possible so we still ran the ball even though we stunk at it.

They just stopped with balance and Stafford threw for over 600 times. That's a lot! No wonder he is going to get production! 663 times and Brees with 657 last year and 658 times this year.

They are all good QBs, but now system, and play calling becomes a function when you examine personnel too.

VAfy-ya
04-21-2012, 08:47 PM
Well we had no run game either. But that's when it comes down to the offensive play calling and system. We wanted to stick to balance as much as possible so we still ran the ball even though we stunk at it.

They just stopped with balance and Stafford threw for over 600 times. That's a lot! No wonder he is going to get production! 663 times and Brees with 657 last year and 658 times this year.

They are all good QBs, but now system, and play calling becomes a function when you examine personnel too.

Meh, what's the balance in doing something over and over again, that your not good at? Teams play to their strengths when their backs are against the wall. The Lions were trying to make the playoffs. They were trying to win games the best way they could. I didnt see too much balance from you guys when Eli threw the ball 58 times in the NFCCG. Because it was win or go home and if you were going to lose, you were going to do it playing to your strength as an offense. They hit a stretch where they lost some games and they couldnt get production out of the RB position. When your two best players are your QB and your WR, its best to not overthink things and put the ball in the hands of your playmakers. I see nothing wrong in the approach they took. It got them to the playoffs. A better defense could have gotten them to a playoff win.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-21-2012, 09:05 PM
Meh, what's the balance in doing something over and over again, that your not good at? Teams play to their strengths when their backs are against the wall. The Lions were trying to make the playoffs. They were trying to win games the best way they could. I didnt see too much balance from you guys when Eli threw the ball 58 times in the NFCCG. Because it was win or go home and if you were going to lose, you were going to do it playing to your strength as an offense. They hit a stretch where they lost some games and they couldnt get production out of the RB position. When your two best players are your QB and your WR, its best to not overthink things and put the ball in the hands of your playmakers. I see nothing wrong in the approach they took. It got them to the playoffs. A better defense could have gotten them to a playoff win.


We tried establishing the run. 25 times wasn't bad. I just saying, if QBs are going to throw that many times, then it's not surprising that Stafford and Brees get their stats too. Makes me respect Rodgers more for getting his production with only 504 passing attempts.

We are a balanced team, and you took 1 element away. We tried to stick with it, and we are also well rounded on offense. This season was a mess because we were dead last. If possible watch, that 589 attempts will drop.

I doubt Brees and Stafford have that number dropped If I were to guess maybe Stafford certainly not Brees and NO.

VAfy-ya
04-21-2012, 09:24 PM
We tried establishing the run. 25 times wasn't bad. I just saying, if QBs are going to throw that many times, then it's not surprising that Stafford and Brees get their stats too. Makes me respect Rodgers more for getting his production with only 504 passing attempts.

We are a balanced team, and you took 1 element away. We tried to stick with it, and we are also well rounded on offense. This season was a mess because we were dead last. If possible watch, that 589 attempts will drop.

I doubt Brees and Stafford have that number dropped If I were to guess maybe Stafford certainly not Brees and NO.

What Im saying is, untill they can improve on other aspects of the offense, nothing wrong with hitching your wagons to two stallions and seeing where that takes you. I seriously hope they understand they can't win like that, year in and year out.

And it made more sense for you guys to try and be balanced throughout the year because of the talent at RB you posessed. The Lions were not in same boat, in terms of talent. Thats why I can give them a pass(no pun intended).

Halsey
04-21-2012, 09:28 PM
All this Panthers hype is deja vu:

2011: "OMG Josh Freeman is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"

2012: "OMG Cam Newton is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"


Newton and Freeman are talented and all, but they have a long way to go before being what many fans think they already are.

Bulldogs
04-21-2012, 10:13 PM
Cutler is the most underrated qb on this forum.

Stafford can become better than Cutler, but I'm not ready to say that yet. Give me another year.

Both are very good fwiw. I think that the Bears just have a better defense, and they both have comparable offenses. So the Bears get the edge to me

What? Cutler is universally jizzed on in these forums. Every time anybody questions him they are immediately shut down. I don't dislike Cutler either, just saying. I don't want to hear people fall back on the Cutler weapons excuse after this year though. Top 5 running back, top 10 receiver, and a decent option in Earl Bennett. Whenever Knox comes back he's a good player too.

CDCB14
04-21-2012, 10:29 PM
What? Cutler is universally jizzed on in these forums. Every time anybody questions him they are immediately shut down. I don't dislike Cutler either, just saying. I don't want to hear people fall back on the Cutler weapons excuse after this year though. Top 5 running back, top 10 receiver, and a decent option in Earl Bennett. Whenever Knox comes back he's a good player too.

Offensive line is still the most important thing in football besides QB though, and the Bears OL would struggle blocking North Dakota State. That alone should give Cutler a lot more respect.

Bulldogs
04-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Offensive line is still the most important thing in football besides QB though, and the Bears OL would struggle blocking North Dakota State. That alone should give Cutler a lot more respect.

I do respect Cutler. And no, they wouldn't struggle against North Dakota State, so let's cut it out with the hyperboles. If they are that worried about the line they should just finally address it.

bearsfan_51
04-21-2012, 10:38 PM
Our line isn't great, but a lot of it was also Martz's scheme. He basically needs Orlando Pace for his 7-step dropbacks to work.

gpngc
04-21-2012, 11:29 PM
All this Panthers hype is deja vu:

2011: "OMG Josh Freeman is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"

2012: "OMG Cam Newton is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"


Newton and Freeman are talented and all, but they have a long way to go before being what many fans think they already are.

Cam Newton had the greatest season by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL. With virtually no offseason. He almost single-handedly changed a doormat into a competitive squad. Even with no defense.

His situation is not comparable to Freeman's. During Freeman's career year he lit up horrible defenses and took advantage of an easy schedule.

And at every level, all Newton has ever done is improve the quality of play of those around him. There's no reason to suggest he won't continue to do so in Carolina.

Sportsfan486
04-22-2012, 12:58 AM
I can't see the Panthers making the playoffs. They'd have to win the division. I think you've got two from the North and two from the East, then the South and West division winners.

I think the Saints get around 10 this year and the Falcons drop off (quietly they lost some people and some key guys have gotten old.) The Bucs are still the Bucs unless Freeman recovers his mojo.

I think the Panthers hit 8 or 9 wins and miss the playoffs.

TitansCJftw
04-22-2012, 01:26 AM
All this Panthers hype is deja vu:

2011: "OMG Josh Freeman is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"

2012: "OMG Cam Newton is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"


Newton and Freeman are talented and all, but they have a long way to go before being what many fans think they already are.

This is an awesomely bad comparison kudos... sigh

Caddy
04-22-2012, 02:11 AM
All this Panthers hype is deja vu:

2011: "OMG Josh Freeman is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"

2012: "OMG Cam Newton is the greatest QB!! He can pass and run! OMFG he's unstoppable defenses can't gameplan for him! NFC South FTW!"


Newton and Freeman are talented and all, but they have a long way to go before being what many fans think they already are.

People didn't hype Freeman because he can run, because he isn't a running QB like Newton. He has decent speed and a physical presence that allows him to run. He had nowhere near the hype (excluding these boards :facepalm:) that Newton had though.

Saints-Tigers
04-22-2012, 02:38 AM
Do you? I have no respect for the saints at all. They're very beatable. If fact, if I had to choose 10 teams i'd most want to play they would probably be in my top 5. Jimmy Graham is a freak, but mehhh. I don't care if you improved your linebackers that defense is still child's play. At least Gregg Williams left.. never understood why he was though of as a good defensive coordinator, he's pathetic.

Not to mention the Saints and their little story is annoying now too. Katrina is over with and they won their super bowl... ESPN blowing them any chance they get is old now. I wanted them to win that Super Bowl just as much as anyone cause I hate Peyton Manning, but it's done with. Ending your perfect season that year in the superdome was fun though.

Anyway, sucks that we have to wait till week 16 to kick your ass. Hopefully the game even means something.

When is the last time the Cowboys beat the Saints... or even won a significant game?

I remember they beat us when we were 13-0, and treated it like the super bowl, but I'm pretty sure we've routed them more than a few times in recent history.

Picking the Cowboys to win a game in december is quite bold though, I'll give you that.

Scotty D
04-22-2012, 03:33 AM
Stafford is better than Cutler. Keep making excuses and playing the "If" game. If Cutler didn't get hurt! If Cutler had Megatron! If Cutler had a ******* angel guiding his throws than he'd be better than Stafford. Then you'd see!

ChiFan24
04-22-2012, 04:26 AM
Stafford is better than Cutler. Keep making excuses and playing the "If" game. If Cutler didn't get hurt! If Cutler had Megatron! If Cutler had a ******* angel guiding his throws than he'd be better than Stafford. Then you'd see!

Nah, Cutler's definitely better. And I think the Lions fans that say otherwise are just grossly underrating how amazing Calvin Johnson is, and how things are far less complex for a QB when he's on the field. Stafford is very good but his numbers are ridiculously inflated the way Culpepper's were when he had Moss.

Also, "keep making excuses" is such a lazy argument. Considering factors outside of the most basic numbers is what brought player evaluation out of the stone age for every other major sport (i.e. sabremetrics). Different players play under different conditions and sometimes things are completely out of their control. Why am I supposed to ignore that?

Asteinebach
04-22-2012, 06:18 AM
Nah, Cutler's definitely better. And I think the Lions fans that say otherwise are just grossly underrating how amazing Calvin Johnson is, and how things are far less complex for a QB when he's on the field. Stafford is very good but his numbers are ridiculously inflated the way Culpepper's were when he had Moss.

Stafford is without question the better of the two QB's. Cutler hasn't done a single thing to impress me since he left Denver. Stafford can float the ball into any spot on the field. The Megatron argument is moot. In order to hit Megatron last year he had to fight the ball through double and triple coverage at times. He thread so many needles last year it was silly.

Also take into consideration Brandon Pettigrew and Nate Burleson combined for just under 160 catches last year. As a matter of fact, in the past 3 years Cutler has thrown for 63 TD's. Matt Stafford has thrown for 60. Except Stafford missed 19 of his first 32 possible starts.

Barring future injuries, Stafford is definitely the better QB. He might have been better at one time. But he just hasn't done enough in recent years to compete.

Asteinebach
04-22-2012, 06:27 AM
Our line isn't great, but a lot of it was also Martz's scheme. He basically needs Orlando Pace for his 7-step dropbacks to work.

P.S. Bears fans have lots of excuses this year. :lol:

SchizophrenicBatman
04-22-2012, 07:20 AM
We're a year away. As much credit as Cam deserves for his season with barely any practice, people really overlook how much the limited offseason hurt defenses. Remember his first two games were two of his best. He's still going to be a stud, but next year might be a little underwhelming

The defense will improve but was simply too bad last year to be anything more than sub-average next year.

In other words, we're destined for 7-9 unless the team runs for a combined 4000 yards

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 07:20 AM
You act like Stafford has been good for a long time, he's only had one good season.

The "Cutler had worse players around him" argument is completely relevant. Having **** receivers is bad enough, but when you're offensive line is **** as well there's not much a QB can do. His receivers dont get open and he has no time to throw the ball. How could that not be relevant?

You also say Stafford threw 'needles' to Johnson whilst in triple coverage. Yet you bring up his stats when throwing to other receivers as if that isnt affected by a third of the defense looking at one player.

I like both QB's, but saying Stafford is better than Cutler 'without question' is just wrong.

cmarq83
04-22-2012, 07:40 AM
What? Cutler is universally jizzed on in these forums. Every time anybody questions him they are immediately shut down. I don't dislike Cutler either, just saying. I don't want to hear people fall back on the Cutler weapons excuse after this year though. Top 5 running back, top 10 receiver, and a decent option in Earl Bennett. Whenever Knox comes back he's a good player too.

I have to agree with this. Cutler used to get crapped on here, but there was one prime time game where he hung in tough despite his line absolutely giving in. Now everybody on here loves him, and have basically forgotten some of the obvious flaws in his game 6 years into his career. He has poor footwork, his accuracy isn't great, he tries to fit too many balls still into tight windows that lead to interceptions, and although he's been partially vindicated his character and toughness aren't exactly what you would want from your franchise QB. Has his game evolved a bit in the past couple of years? Yes, but it's not like he has this long track record of consistently great play either.

With Stafford you get virtually all the strengths of Cutler and more. I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that in 2012 Stafford will be a better QB than Cutler.

Asteinebach
04-22-2012, 08:01 AM
You act like Stafford has been good for a long time, he's only had one good season.

Yeah, I'm just not buying the "no tools" excuse. Earl Bennett was his teammate in college. Johnny Knox has proven he can make some big time circus catches, and you also have one of the league's true premier backs in the backfield. 3 years and still no production to mention. Last year, he played in 10 games and threw 13 TD's. Comparatively, Stafford in 2010 played in 5 games and threw 6 TD's. When he first came into the league from Vandy, we all knew the book on this guy. And it proved to be true. He's a gunslinger. He drew a lot of Brett Favre comparisons, because he could throw lasers, but he wasn't savvy and wasn't terribly accurate.

I just don't see why everyone wants to jump on the Cutler Bandwagon.

irishbucsfan
04-22-2012, 11:12 AM
I got a fuzzy feeling when Von Miller mentioned Freeman in the same breath as Newton and Vick.

He dropped 20 pounds this offseason and is gonna get back to huge sexy timezzz.


http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2010/NFL/WeeklyGallery/week12/m3pg-vertical.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/579218_10150825092854595_95501124594_11461023_2552 44181_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301809_10150828741119595_95501124594_11468471_1527 596921_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/582657_10150815453389595_95501124594_11453089_5080 46510_n.jpg

bearsfan_51
04-22-2012, 11:15 AM
Yup. Those are pictures.

irishbucsfan
04-22-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm an educator.

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 12:00 PM
Freeman is looking sexy there! When were they taken?

irishbucsfan
04-22-2012, 12:35 PM
Freeman is looking sexy there! When were they taken?

Our 3 day mini camp last week. He's gonna ball out this year, by land and air.

Raiderz4Life
04-22-2012, 12:39 PM
Man...who knew Lions fans were getting so delusional.

cmarq83
04-22-2012, 01:25 PM
Man...who knew Lions fans were getting so delusional.

I don't think it's delusional to say that Stafford today is better than Cutler. I think they actually can put together a pretty favorable argument for their side.

Bulldogs
04-22-2012, 01:29 PM
I think it's a bit extreme on both ends. Both sides say they'd "easily" take their guy. I would personally choose Stafford before Cutler but it's not by a considerable margin like some here like to think.

prock
04-22-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't think it's delusional to say that Stafford today is better than Cutler. I think they actually can put together a pretty favorable argument for their side.

I think Stafford is a little better, but not by much. I think it's just ignorant that they are not acknowledging the lack of weapons Cutler has, or at the very least not realizing the impact it has. His 1st and 2nd options are solid rd and 4th receivers. Forte is the only thing keeping him alive.

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 01:38 PM
I think it's a bit extreme on both ends. Both sides say they'd "easily" take their guy. I would personally choose Stafford before Cutler but it's not by a considerable margin like some here like to think.

Basically this. I'd choose Stafford over Cutler, but people saying 'Stafford over Cutler by a mile' are just wrong. No one is saying Cutler is a mile better than Stafford, but Lions fans have to go all deluded on us.

And they say people are wrong for bringing up completely relevant points, just because they dont support their point of view.

Bulldogs
04-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Basically this. I'd choose Stafford over Cutler, but people saying 'Stafford over Cutler by a mile' are just wrong. No one is saying Cutler is a mile better than Stafford, but Lions fans have to go all deluded on us.

Wrong. I've seen at the very least two people say Cutler is definitely better.

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Wrong. I've seen at the very least two people say Cutler is definitely better.

Well then they're wrong as well.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 01:52 PM
Part of what makes Cutler so impressive is how well he's able to operate with that **** OL and no receiver that's a consistent playmaker, much less a dominant freak that could beat double and triple coverage who opened up everybody else. Give Jay a downfield weapon like Megatron and the ensuing holes in coverage; he might break Brady's TD record.

cmarq83
04-22-2012, 02:00 PM
Part of what makes Cutler so impressive is how well he's able to operate with that **** OL and no receiver that's a consistent playmaker, much less a dominant freak that could beat double and triple coverage who opened up everybody else. Give Jay a downfield weapon like Megatron and the ensuing holes in coverage; he might break Brady's TD record.

Simmer down there with the hyperbole, Cutler had Marshall and a damn impressive O-line in Denver around year 3, and still only hit about half the TD record.

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 02:02 PM
Simmer down there with the hyperbole, Cutler had Marshall and a damn impressive O-line in Denver around year 3, and still only hit about half the TD record.

Megatron > Marshall, js.

Scotty D
04-22-2012, 02:10 PM
Jay Cutler had one decent season after throwing 27 TDs and 26 INTs in his first year in Chicago. I really don't see what he's done to earn all this love. Stafford has eclipsed anything Cutler has ever done and its in his third season.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
04-22-2012, 02:20 PM
I have to say...seeing Cutler for the better part of his career the dude is one tough son of a *****. People give him **** here in Chicago because he doesnt like dealing with the media. So what, **** the media.

Given what he has done in Chicago with the atrocious offensive line, lack of receivers, and one true weapon in Forte, it is quite amazing what Cutler has done.

I'll take Cutler over Stafford, but it is damn close. Too much of an injury concern with Stafford. Dude has all the talent in the world and better weapons than Cutler, but the injuries give the slight edge to Cutler.

ChiFan24
04-22-2012, 02:25 PM
Jay Cutler had one decent season after throwing 27 TDs and 26 INTs in his first year in Chicago. I really don't see what he's done to earn all this love. Stafford has eclipsed anything Cutler has ever done and its in his third season.

Were you sleeping during our MNF matchup? That's what Cutler has to work with every single game. It's not an excuse, it's reality.

And again, I'd been of the opinion that he is the most dominant WR since prime Moss, but it seems Lions fans would rather Stafford be overrated than CJ be given the respect he deserves. And I think that's stupid.

Bulldogs
04-22-2012, 03:01 PM
This upcoming season will be very telling. Can Stafford repeat? Will Cutler finally prove he's an elite QB with Brandon Marshall joining the team?

niel89
04-22-2012, 03:07 PM
I like Stafford more by a hair, but Cutler situation is incredibly bad. His receivers are bottom 5 & his OL is bottom 5. It's a miracle that he can do anything at all.

Saints-Tigers
04-22-2012, 03:15 PM
I think Stafford is Cutler, but he's smarter, more accurate, and less whiney whine.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 03:17 PM
I think Stafford is Cutler, but he's smarter, more accurate, and less whiney whine.

He's a lot like Cutler, but not as tough, doesn't throw on the move as well or avoid the rush and isn't as accurate.

As for Cutler's #s in a different NFL with Marshall obviously don't compare to Megatron. Megatron put up 2 more TDs than Marshall's career high, with the **** QBs he had throwing him the ball last year. Not to consider that Megatron is the most dominant deep threat this league has seen since Randy was still wearing purple while Marshall might be a better deep threat than Anquan Boldin...maybe...or how drastically the rules have changed and how passing numbers have inflated since then.

cmarq83
04-22-2012, 03:22 PM
He's a lot like Cutler, but not as tough, doesn't throw on the move as well or avoid the rush and isn't as accurate.

How is he not as tough? Do you not remember when he stayed in with a mangled shoulder to win the game against the Browns? It's not like his line is elite either, he made a ton of throws last year by standing in tough and taking hits. I would venture to say he's more accurate than Cutler too. Some of his passes were absolutely beautifully placed last season. People just assume that it's him throwing fade routes to Megatron, but that isn't really the case. Stafford really did some amazing things last season.

Scotty D
04-22-2012, 03:24 PM
He's a lot like Cutler, but not as tough, doesn't throw on the move as well or avoid the rush and isn't as accurate.

As for Cutler's #s in a different NFL with Marshall obviously don't compare to Megatron. Megatron put up 2 more TDs than Marshall's career high, with the **** QBs he had throwing him the ball last year. Not to consider that Megatron is the most dominant deep threat this league has seen since Randy was still wearing purple while Marshall might be a better deep threat than Anquan Boldin...maybe...or how drastically the rules have changed and how passing numbers have inflated since then.

Wait, what?

ugA8G4rv_8g

cmarq83
04-22-2012, 03:24 PM
Megatron also had his most productive season in 5 since he's been in the league with a full season of Stafford. If you remember correctly up until last season the story with Megatron was how he hadn't hit his potential yet. Well last season with Stafford he did.

SuperPacker
04-22-2012, 03:26 PM
Megatron also had his most productive season in 5 since he's been in the league with a full season of Stafford. If you remember correctly up until last season the story with Megatron was how he hadn't hit his potential yet. Well last season with Stafford he did.

Maybe because he actually had a QB throwing too him. Stafford has been out injured for every other season. I dont see how this helps your argument.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 03:30 PM
Not being as tough as Cutler doesn't make you a *****. Only Big Ben deals with as ****** of protection as Cutler does and Matt Stafford just isn't as good at is either of them at it. He throws a pretty ball and will cement himself in the top ten if he can stay healthy again next year, but Jay Cutler impresses me a lot more when i watch the two of them play.

Scotty D
04-22-2012, 03:33 PM
lol wut, are we forgetting the playoff game against Green Bay fiasco.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 03:57 PM
lol wut, are we forgetting the playoff game against Green Bay fiasco.

You mean the one where he got hurt and the bears went on to lose? Damn Cutler not being indestructible!...but do you really wanna play this game while you're defending Matt Stafford? Won't really go that well for you...

niel89
04-22-2012, 04:01 PM
Whenever I watch a Bears game I always feel bad for Cutler. He honestly looks visibly depressed on the field. WR drops a pass again, "(sigh...) Huddle up guys...)" DE comes clean around the edge on 3rd down, "Back to the sideline...."

This face constantly

http://wlusidelines.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img115884331.jpg

bigbluedefense
04-22-2012, 04:02 PM
Cutler has a hot wife. Spoiled rotten and probably a *****, but hot none the less.

Scotty D
04-22-2012, 04:06 PM
You mean the one where he got hurt and the bears went on to lose? Damn Cutler not being indestructible!...but do you really wanna play this game while you're defending Matt Stafford? Won't really go that well for you...

Being tough is different than injury prone. You said Cutler was tougher than Stafford. I don't really buy that. Stafford would have been on that field against Green Bay. There were reports Drew Brees played a whole season with the same injury Cutler had been diagnosed with.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
Being tough is different than injury prone. You said Cutler was tougher than Stafford. I don't really buy that. Stafford would have been on that field against Green Bay. There were reports Drew Brees played a whole season with the same injury Cutler had been diagnosed with.

So after playing through an entire season of getting the **** beaten out of him every time he drops back to throw he finally decides that the NFC Championship game is when it's time to quit? Does that make sense to you? If it were a matter of toughing it out he would've been out there, otherwise he wouldn't have survived even that long.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-22-2012, 04:11 PM
I forgot about that game where he took himself out! I lost respect for him for that. He did that while Rivers hopped around on 1 foot still playing his playoff game against the Pats.

Halsey
04-22-2012, 04:20 PM
Cam Newton had the greatest season by a rookie QB in the history of the NFL.

I disagree. His team went 6-10, and the only win they had vs a winning team was vs the Texans minus Schaub. It's great that he had nice stats, but passing stats were up around the NFL. It's no coincidence that multiple single season passing and receiving records were broken in 2011.

Asteinebach
04-22-2012, 05:21 PM
Being tough is different than injury prone. You said Cutler was tougher than Stafford. I don't really buy that. Stafford would have been on that field against Green Bay. There were reports Drew Brees played a whole season with the same injury Cutler had been diagnosed with.

Yeah, the entire time Stafford missed with injury, all his coaches and teammates could talk about is how unfortunate it was, and how tough the kid is. Comparing Cutler and Stafford's "toughness" to me is basically useless.

And I don't see how Cutler and Roeth get a free pass because they supposedly have "the worst protection" in the League. Obviously those of you who claim this as an excuse are woefully uninformed. On BOTH the plays that injured Stafford, Jeff Backus got put firmly on his ass. The first courtesy of Andre Carter (a game I was at), and the second thanks to Julius Peppers. It's not like the guy sprained his thumb and claimed a separated throwing shoulder.

And I seriously don't see where all the Stafford-hating is coming from on this board. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he's basically proved you all wrong about your 2009 positional rankings?

WCH
04-22-2012, 05:54 PM
Aaron Rodgers > Jay Cutler + Matt Stafford

Seriously, I like Cutler a lot. I really do. But Stafford just had a 40 TD, 5000 yard season at the age of 23. Unless last season was a complete fluke, his best years are probably still ahead of him. He's not going to decline physically for a number of years, and he's only going to get better from a mental standpoint. He wasn't as good as Marino in 1984, but that's about how far you have to go back to find a 23 year old QB who topped Stafford's season.

Asteinebach
04-22-2012, 06:28 PM
Aaron Rodgers > Jay Cutler + Matt Stafford

Seriously, I like Cutler a lot. I really do. But Stafford just had a 40 TD, 5000 yard season at the age of 23. Unless last season was a complete fluke, his best years are probably still ahead of him. He's not going to decline physically for a number of years, and he's only going to get better from a mental standpoint. He wasn't as good as Marino 1984, but that's about how far you have to go back to find a 23 year old QB who topped Stafford's season.

Well said.

Rosebud
04-22-2012, 06:29 PM
Yeah, the entire time Stafford missed with injury, all his coaches and teammates could talk about is how unfortunate it was, and how tough the kid is. Comparing Cutler and Stafford's "toughness" to me is basically useless.

And I don't see how Cutler and Roeth get a free pass because they supposedly have "the worst protection" in the League. Obviously those of you who claim this as an excuse are woefully uninformed. On BOTH the plays that injured Stafford, Jeff Backus got put firmly on his ass. The first courtesy of Andre Carter (a game I was at), and the second thanks to Julius Peppers. It's not like the guy sprained his thumb and claimed a separated throwing shoulder.

And I seriously don't see where all the Stafford-hating is coming from on this board. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he's basically proved you all wrong about your 2009 positional rankings?

Stafford hate? A lot of people rank him as a top 5 QB. Just cause some of us don't and think Cutler's a better QB doesn't make Stafford some sort of under-rated superstar on this board. Just like just because Stafford doesn't have Willie Roaf and Jonathon Ogden protecting him doesn't mean his OL is nearly as bad as the lines Cutler and Big Ben operate behind. Hell Backus is probably better than David Diehl at this point and I wouldn't trade the Giants OL for the Bears or Stillers OL if Mike Wallace was coming with it. FTR I thought Stafford was the top prospect when he came out and was a great pick for the Lions, so no, he's not proving my draft boards wrong.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2012, 06:41 PM
I don't think it's unfair to ask Stafford to do it for another season before we anoint him. Hes a great young qb, but jeez it's only been one season.

Ness
04-22-2012, 07:05 PM
Cutler has a hot wife. Spoiled rotten and probably a *****, but hot none the less.

Cutler also has diabetes.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2012, 07:08 PM
Cutler also has diabetes.

It's a small price to pay. I envy his ability to be a complete douchebag.

Ness
04-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Aaron Rodgers > Jay Cutler + Matt Stafford

Seriously, I like Cutler a lot. I really do. But Stafford just had a 40 TD, 5000 yard season at the age of 23. Unless last season was a complete fluke, his best years are probably still ahead of him. He's not going to decline physically for a number of years, and he's only going to get better from a mental standpoint. He wasn't as good as Marino in 1984, but that's about how far you have to go back to find a 23 year old QB who topped Stafford's season.

Yes he had a great season. But if you put it into context, the guy threw the ball 663 times, which lead the league...and his average per pass attempt was 7.6. That average is alright, but in this day and age it's not anything special. With the amount of times he passed the ball it would have been a shock if he didn't throw for over 5,000 yards.

Ness
04-22-2012, 07:14 PM
It's a small price to pay. I envy his ability to be a complete douchebag.

Wait, why is Cutler a douchebag? There was that entire situation in Denver, but...other than that I can't remember him being so outspoken consistently that would garner him that kind of label, compared to someone like...Warren Sapp.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2012, 07:42 PM
Wait, why is Cutler a douchebag? There was that entire situation in Denver, but...other than that I can't remember him being so outspoken consistently that would garner him that kind of label, compared to someone like...Warren Sapp.

His douchebaggery is pretty well known, especially to the media. I loved that one Rick Reily article on Cutler being a douchebag. It's obviously biased, but it was still funny.

Especially when Olsen was like "Jay is Jay" as his response to why Cutler is a douchebag.

Ness
04-22-2012, 07:51 PM
His douchebaggery is pretty well known, especially to the media. I loved that one Rick Reily article on Cutler being a douchebag. It's obviously biased, but it was still funny.

Especially when Olsen was like "Jay is Jay" as his response to why Cutler is a douchebag.

What has he done specifically though. Does he call reporters idiots? Does he ignore them and not answer questions? Is he evasive? There have been coaches and players in the past like Corey Dillon, Sterling Sharpe, and Bill Belichick that have seemed kind of annoyed when talking to the media, but I don't think the general consensus on those guys are that they are jerks. And if it's just Cutler and the media's relations making him out to be an asshole, well I'd have to take that with a grain of salt. The media is the media.

gpngc
04-22-2012, 10:06 PM
I disagree. His team went 6-10, and the only win they had vs a winning team was vs the Texans minus Schaub. It's great that he had nice stats, but passing stats were up around the NFL. It's no coincidence that multiple single season passing and receiving records were broken in 2011.

They won six games and were competitive in all but two games. Without him, a very similar roster was NON-COMPETITIVE the year before.

Last year, the Panthers scored 406 points behind Newton. Only FOUR teams in the entire NFL scored more. So please don't discredit Newton's amazing year because 'passing stats were up.'

His situation is not comparable to Josh Freeman's. He's a much more dynamic player. Most educated fans foresaw the Bucs struggling last season after Freeman went 25/6 TD/INT against an extremely soft schedule the year before.

Ness
04-22-2012, 11:09 PM
I can't think of any other rookie that has come into the NFL and had a better season than Cam Newton, from an individual standpoint. Newton elevated that offense, and showed he can be a playmaker not only through the air, but on the ground too. Panthers fans should be excited for a long time. No one thought Newton would be this good this quickly. All they have to do is improve that defense and keep building around Newton on offense.

Raiderz4Life
04-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Yes he had a great season. But if you put it into context, the guy threw the ball 663 times, which lead the league...and his average per pass attempt was 7.6. That average is alright, but in this day and age it's not anything special. With the amount of times he passed the ball it would have been a shock if he didn't throw for over 5,000 yards.

THANK YOU!!

He threw more times than even Drew Brees.

Stafford is good and he's shown what he can do. But until he does this one or 2 more times, I can't anoint the kid.

Cutler is still slightly better than Stafford in my book. And I'm with BBD I envy him lol

Scotty D
04-23-2012, 03:47 AM
Yes he had a great season. But if you put it into context, the guy threw the ball 663 times, which lead the league...and his average per pass attempt was 7.6. That average is alright, but in this day and age it's not anything special. With the amount of times he passed the ball it would have been a shock if he didn't throw for over 5,000 yards.

And Cutler's was 7.39 before he got hurt, lol. Stafford had no running game, the defense knew what was coming.

Jay Cutler puts up worse stats, has a lower ceiling, and gets injured just as much but somehow he is better.

:confused2:

Ness
04-23-2012, 03:54 AM
And Cutler's was 7.39 before he got hurt, lol. Stafford had no running game, the defense knew what was coming.

Jay Cutler puts up worse stats, has a lower ceiling, and gets injured just as much but somehow he is better.

:confused2:
I was never talking about Cutler.

Saints-Tigers
04-23-2012, 04:25 AM
Throwing more times isn't always a good thing. The fact that Stafford had such success throwing that many times, which was really too many, is a positive, not a negative.


Anyway, to get back on topic, it's the NFC south, no matter who wins the division, no one should really be shocked, and calling one team to win or lose the division isn't really a bold statement. The one thing you can count on in the NFC South is the Falcons not winning the Super Bowl :)

Asteinebach
04-23-2012, 07:20 AM
The one thing you can count on in the NFC South is the Falcons not winning the Super Bowl :)

That's ice cold man, ice cold. :lol:

Let's, hypothetically, say that Carolina added Michael Floyd, Devon Still, Mychael Kendricks, and Chase Minnifield. Would that be enough to put them into the playoffs?

Rosebud
04-23-2012, 10:12 AM
That's ice cold man, ice cold. :lol:

Let's, hypothetically, say that Carolina added Michael Floyd, Devon Still, Mychael Kendricks, and Chase Minnifield. Would that be enough to put them into the playoffs?

That defense would still be pathetically bad. The DL would still suck and the secondary would still be weak.

ChiFan24
04-24-2012, 04:39 AM
I wish I had access to a video of all of Stafford's throws in 2011. His job description is to throw it to Calvin Johnson or to throw to the guy that's wide open because Calvin Johnson is dictating so much freaking coverage because he's by far the best WR in the league. Stafford is good and can sling it from the pocket better than anyone in the league, but I would not trade Cutler for him in 2012. I'm glad there are others that can see that.

Asteinebach
04-24-2012, 04:41 AM
I wish I had access to a video of all of Stafford's throws in 2011. His job description is to throw it to Calvin Johnson or to throw to the guy that's wide open because Calvin Johnson is dictating so much freaking coverage because he's by far the best WR in the league. Stafford is good and can sling it from the pocket better than anyone in the league, but I would not trade Cutler for him in 2012. I'm glad there are others that can see that.

As a Lions fan, I did watch Matty Stafford in all 17 games this year. I won't go as far as to say he's at the same caliber as CJ. I will go as far as to say he's the best QB the Detroit Lions have ever had. You can watch his placement for 60 minutes and know that.

cmarq83
04-24-2012, 06:39 AM
I wish I had access to a video of all of Stafford's throws in 2011. His job description is to throw it to Calvin Johnson or to throw to the guy that's wide open because Calvin Johnson is dictating so much freaking coverage because he's by far the best WR in the league. Stafford is good and can sling it from the pocket better than anyone in the league, but I would not trade Cutler for him in 2012. I'm glad there are others that can see that.

This is pretty blatantly untrue. On a highlight video people put all the bombs on there, but you're pretty much delusional if you think what you said above is really true.

ChiFan24
04-26-2012, 12:31 AM
This is pretty blatantly untrue. On a highlight video people put all the bombs on there, but you're pretty much delusional if you think what you said above is really true.
It's an exaggeration, but it's more true for him than it is for any other QB in the league. I'm not saying Stafford is a bad or even an average QB. I'd probably rank him 8th or 9th or so - he is a very good QB. I've seen plenty of Lions games. He throws an absolutely beautiful ball and does fit it into tight areas against good coverage. I just don't think his job is as difficult as other QB's. And if there were a video of all of his throws (...not a highlight video), I think people would realize that Calvin Johnson makes his job a lot less complex than Jay Cutler's, for example.

Monomach
04-26-2012, 01:27 AM
Matt Stafford's progression:

1. Is Calvin Johnson wide open? If yes, chuck it in his general direction. He'll get his hands on it. If no, go to #2.

2. Is Calvin Johnson only covered by one guy? If yes, chuck it in his general direction. He'll get his hands on it. If no, go to #3.

3. Is Calvin Johnson only covered by two guys? If yes, chuck it in his general direction. He'll get his hands on it. If no, go to #4.

4. Is Calvin Johnson covered by three guys? If yes, throw it to one of the 2-3 uncovered receivers.

yodabear
04-26-2012, 01:30 AM
I was gonna come in here and talk **** about u not going out on that much of a limb cuz I don't see the Panthers winning the division as that much of a limb, but the fact u added run away with with a 12-4 record and a first round bye, I will not talk this ****.

FUNBUNCHER
04-26-2012, 08:28 AM
I disagree. His team went 6-10, and the only win they had vs a winning team was vs the Texans minus Schaub. It's great that he had nice stats, but passing stats were up around the NFL. It's no coincidence that multiple single season passing and receiving records were broken in 2011.


You need to go back and check and see how many games Carolina had a lead in the 4th quarter and their defense caved. The Panthers easily could have been a 9 win team last season if their defense was more talented, which is why I don't think there's any chance they win 12 games in 2012 in the NFCS.

There aren't that many candidates for 'best rookie season ever' for a QB. Forget passing for 4K, 60% completions and 21 TD passes. Add to that Cam rushed for 14 TDs(!).

There's nothing to disagree with because there's no debate.

The only people who question how incredible Cam's rookie season was in a labor negotiation shortened season (for a guy who started ONE SEASON at Auburn in the spread option), are those who are still rooting for him to bust.

THe Panthers need upgrades at every level of their D; DT/LB/secondary. IMO they're at least one more offseason away before they can leapfrog the Bucs and Falcons as the 2nd best team in the division.

I don't see Cam regressing.
Maybe he doesn't pass for 4K, but I expect more TD passes, a higher completion percentage and IMO Newton can rush for 10+ TDs in a 16 game season anytime he wants.

As for the secondary thread topic, how can you not respect Cutler's game after watching him play last season?? I like the speed of Knox and Hester, but even as a SKins fan I don't look at that WR corps with envy. And Cutler got BLOWN UP on so many plays last year and still came back to the huddle and threw strikes to a bunch of slot and backup WR talent. Adding Brandon Marshall to that unit could be genius if he doesn't implode.

I became a closet Lions fan last season, and believe that Stafford AND Megatron are both great talents who happen to be on the same roster.

But if you put Cutler on the Lions he would have had very similar stats to Stafford IMO. However you put Stafford on the Bears I don't think he would have finished the season. Cutler's a better athlete, more mobile, and the guy just takes bigger hits than any QB in the league and still plays at a high level.

The NFCN, if not the best division in football, is at least the most competitive.
No division has the caliber of QBs of Rodgers/Stafford/Cutler.

And I laugh at Cowboys fans talking about making the playoffs is overrated.:facepalm:
THe NFL isn't the NBA. Making the playoffs in the NFL is still a big deal.
The only other team that's done less with more is the Chargers.