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Scotty D
04-26-2012, 12:06 AM
http://i.imgur.com/A8cA0.jpg

Schedule
Round 1 - Thursday, April 26 (8 PM ET)
Rounds 2-3 - Friday, April 27 (7 PM ET)
Rounds 4-7 - Saturday, April 28 (Noon ET)

Current Lions Draft Picks
Round 1, Pick 23 (23)
Round 2, Pick 22 (54)
Round 3, Pick 22 (85)
Round 4, Pick 22 (117)
Round 5, Pick 23 (158)
Round 7, Pick 12 (219) (From Seahawks)
Round 7, Pick 23 (230)

Scotty D
04-26-2012, 12:29 AM
What do you guys think is the percentage chance that Avril gets traded on draft day? I'll go with 30%.

Mayock gave us Courtney Upshaw and Kiper gave the Lions Doug Martin. Waiting for Rick Gosselin's and Scott Wright's mocks.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 04:51 AM
I think it really depends a lot on what the Lions do in round one. They don't have to trade him, but if there's a guy like Chandler Jones, Courtney Upshaw, or Nick Perry on the board, I can see us shopping him around. I'd say it's about 50/50. The Lions haven't been known for moving players on draft day, but the Avril situation is definitely a precarious one. Apparently Avril has already turned down numerous offers that would make him among the highest paid DE's in the League.

Who's 3 guys you'd love to see the Lions pick up this year?

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:08 AM
I think is Dre or Gilmore are on the board in the late teens Mayhew will do his best to make a jump up and take them.

There is no secret we NEED a CB. It only has gotten more pressing with Marshall joining the division. Oline and LB will help but our exact same oline is in tact from last year and with healthy RBs they can survive the season.

Oline I assume gets addressed round 2 however.

Mayhew has been agressive to get guys he wants, if it takes our 3rd and 5th rounder so be it. Get the young CB we need, we are in a pretty ideal position to do it

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 05:11 AM
I'm not a big fan of Kirkpatrick. I see him being a lot like Amari Spievey in the NFL. If Gilmore is there, yeah, move up 7 picks (no more than that) to get him. Otherwise, this is a really deep CB class. You can still win on a DB in the 2nd round with guys like Josh Robinson, Casey Hayward, Trumaine Johnson, or Brandon Boykin.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:12 AM
What do you guys think is the percentage chance that Avril gets traded on draft day? I'll go with 30%.

Mayock gave us Courtney Upshaw and Kiper gave the Lions Doug Martin. Waiting for Rick Gosselin's and Scott Wright's mocks.

I don't see ithappening. For starters we would need him to sign the tender. Also with Osi basically demanding a trade as well and a a fair amount of DEs with early round grades we won't get fair value.

I do think a DT will be traded and my money is on Corey Williams. We have to be comfortable with a DT rotation of Suh, Fairley, Hill. Corey's cap hit is i believe 5 mil and I could see a team like philly or even STL wanting him.

Question is what value do we get for him?

If we do end up taking a DE at 23 i think they'll still stay put. KVB has one more year here tops (I still think we should cut him now). Upshaw may be able to play OLB for us and DE in passing downs this year and we can shift him to DE next year.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:14 AM
I'm not a big fan of Kirkpatrick. I see him being a lot like Amari Spievey in the NFL. If Gilmore is there, yeah, move up 7 picks (no more than that) to get him. Otherwise, this is a really deep CB class. You can still win on a DB in the 2nd round with guys like Josh Robinson, Casey Hayward, Trumaine Johnson, or Brandon Boykin.

I persoanally like Kirkpatrick a lot. I like his size (would be good for both Jennings and Marshall) and I like that he is a Bama and a Saban product.

Guy has been bred in one of the best defensive systems in the country and did very well there. He seems to be fairly physical as well and can help in run support, something Schwartz definitley likes

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 05:15 AM
a fair amount of DEs with early round grades we won't get fair value.

Value becomes a fluid concept after round 1 when some teams have missed out on the DE they wanted. I still think we could pick up a 2nd for Avril, maybe more. As for Williams, I wouldn't mind seeing him get moved, but we'd probably only get a 5th for him at best.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 05:17 AM
Guy has been bred in one of the best defensive systems in the country and did very well there. He seems to be fairly physical as well and can help in run support, something Schwartz definitley likes

My only beef with Dre is that I don't think he's fast or smooth enough to keep up with Marshall, Harvin, and Jennings. He's physical, yes, but after the bump he'd be getting burned deep. Then, year two, we'd try to get our value out of him by moving him over to SS. I just don't see it as a great value. We can get the same type of player in round 2 with Trumaine Johnson.

Also, I find it worth adding that I am a fan of the CB's the Lions currently have on roster. Mind you, our worst secondary issues became evident when Louis Delmas got injured. He's the leader of the defense when he's on the field. Without him, the entire secondary suffered. I think the biggest crime our CB's committed was being inexperienced and unsupervised. I like Aaron Berry, Alphonso Smith, Jacob Lacey, and Chris Houston.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:44 AM
My only beef with Dre is that I don't think he's fast or smooth enough to keep up with Marshall, Harvin, and Jennings. He's physical, yes, but after the bump he'd be getting burned deep. Then, year two, we'd try to get our value out of him by moving him over to SS. I just don't see it as a great value. We can get the same type of player in round 2 with Trumaine Johnson.

Also, I find it worth adding that I am a fan of the CB's the Lions currently have on roster. Mind you, our worst secondary issues became evident when Louis Delmas got injured. He's the leader of the defense when he's on the field. Without him, the entire secondary suffered. I think the biggest crime our CB's committed was being inexperienced and unsupervised. I like Aaron Berry, Alphonso Smith, Jacob Lacey, and Chris Houston.

I agree with you actually that his speed is an issue (although Marshall is not a speed reciever and he should be able to stay with him). My belief however, is that any of those recievers are bound to be doubled anyway. And if you look at the tape a lot of the times we get burned is because our CBs can't bump or play at the line.

Our defense gets to the QB, everyone knows that. Thats why a CB that can take away the short pass could fit perfectly in our system.

Our CB squad is average at best, but they are also all very similar, poor in run support and they all have to play off the line. Think about the Oakland game last year, our CBs were playing 10 yards off the reciever and we got torched as they threw short passes all the way down the field.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:45 AM
With that said, what is everyones feelings on Jenkins? Huge talent, huge character issues. if he is there second rounds do you take the gamble?

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 05:53 AM
With that said, what is everyones feelings on Jenkins? Huge talent, huge character issues. if he is there second rounds do you take the gamble?

I wouldn't. I won't go as far to say the Lions' as an organization feel the same way, but as a fan, I'd hate to have him. Just because we've had so many off the field issues from our rookies last year. Adding him in with that bunch would not provide a good environment for him.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 06:41 AM
I wouldn't. I won't go as far to say the Lions' as an organization feel the same way, but as a fan, I'd hate to have him. Just because we've had so many off the field issues from our rookies last year. Adding him in with that bunch would not provide a good environment for him.

I agree. I just had to ask because I was reading the mlive boards and they were all so pro Jenkins (in round 1).

It is tempting knowing how talented this guy is, but with the youth in our lockerroom and all the drug incidents this offseason Mayhew is walking a fine line between having an uncontrolable lockerroom

cotts1
04-26-2012, 10:01 AM
I disagree about Jenkins. The kid smokes pot, he isn't a thug like Pac-man Jones. I don't see marijuana as a big problem. Just immaturity issues that almost every kid goes through at some point. Jenkins will grow up. I would bet at least 50% of the players in the NFL smoke pot regularly. These kind of problems are very correctable.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Happy draft day.

No way Avril traded without signing his tender. Plus Lo Jack is a free agent next year, KVB is old and his salary in 2013 is not worth his ability and Willie Young is a restricted free agent. And Avril isn't signed long term yet so right now only 2 under contract in 2013(1 very old). Lions getting a DE wouldn't be a bad option if the Gilmore/Dre/Barron/Glenn arent' there and they don't want to take a risk on Jenkins/Mike Adams. I really don't like Martin. Falling like a rock, Scott has us taking him in Round 2.

Going to be interesting to see if anyone falls or if Mayhew makes a trade up or down.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 11:00 AM
I've been hearing the Lions are in play to move up for Mark Barron. They'd have to go higher to get him than I'd be willing to do. Looks like Barron could be gone as soon as 9 or 10, so we'd have to give up a King's ransom.

I agree with you about Jon Martin, but if we get him in round two, that's decent value.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Yeah giving up a bunch of picks for a safety is kind of crazy especially considering our future needs on Oline and impending free agents(Houston,Delmas,Lo Jack,Durant,Gosder,Levy,Lee-Hill, maybe Avril). Barron and Delmas would be quite the combo though. Back end better be locked down for years to come. And both Spievey and Delmas struggled in run D last year. Barron would help improve that too.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah, John Clayton sounded off on ESPN a few minutes ago saying that the Lions have contacted the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Cardinals. Looks like Barron, maybe even Gilmore. Neither is worth moving up that high. They'd better make it a lean deal.

Scotty D
04-26-2012, 12:18 PM
So its becoming clear Mayhew loves to trade up.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-26-2012, 12:19 PM
Yeah well they tried to trade up last year for Patrick Peterson. Didn't want to give up 2nd and 3rd to Zona. Not that suprising.

Lions will have to give up some picks though as they can't swap picks because they have the later draft positions in this draft. Hopefully not a future 1st though. That isn't worth it if it does happen.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 12:24 PM
If we keep all of our picks this year, I'd give up a 1st and a 2013 1st to grab a chance at Barron/Gilmore. Those guys would be very solid additions to our defense.

We just can't be nearsighted with the 1st round. We need to add depth along the offensive and defensive fronts.

Scotty D
04-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Well, at least they would be trading the 32nd overall pick.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Well, at least they would be trading the 32nd overall pick.

Mwuahahahahahaha. Yes.

Scotty D
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
Scott Wright's mock

Round 1 - Dre Kirkpatrick, CB - Bama
Round 2 - Jon Martin, OT - Stanford
Round 3 - Tyrone Crawford, DE -Boise St

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 02:11 PM
If we got Dre and Martin i would be one happy happy man.

I honestly don't think it could go better for us.

BRAVEHEART
04-26-2012, 02:32 PM
I'd love to trade down and get Perry if he's in the second. Bring him back to Detroit.

WMD
04-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Yeah, John Clayton sounded off on ESPN a few minutes ago saying that the Lions have contacted the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Cardinals. Looks like Barron, maybe even Gilmore. Neither is worth moving up that high. They'd better make it a lean deal.

Barron is, but I wouldn't trade up for Gilmore.

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Barron is, but I wouldn't trade up for Gilmore.

Again, I have to gauge the players abilities vs. the teams needs. We have enough needs where giving up 3 picks this year to get Barron is asinine.

boknows34
04-26-2012, 05:08 PM
A roundup of mock drafts and who they have going to the Lions.

Scott Wright - Dre Kirkpatrick
Mike Mayock - Courtney Upshaw
Michael Lombardi - Dre Kirkpatrick
Charley Casserly - Cordy Glenn
Charles Davis - Jonathan Martin

Albert Breer - Jonathan Martin
Bucky Brooks - Mike Adams
Greg Cosell - Mike Adams
Don Banks - Riley Reiff
Peter King - Amini Silatolu (trade down with Baltimore)

Nolan Nawrocki - Stephon Gilmore
Chad Reuter - Nick Perry
nfl.com mock draft - Cordy Glenn

Mel Kiper's is hidden behind ESPN Insider.

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:51 PM
kiper was doug martin and is now Jon Martin (changed it this afternoon so I am told)

detroit4life
04-26-2012, 05:52 PM
lots of talk about us moving up. If the price is right both gilmore and baron are worth it. Hands down our biggest needs and these are 2 impact players

Asteinebach
04-26-2012, 07:43 PM
Barron won't be anywhere around. He's about to be the #7 overall pick. Gilmore might even be gone by 12.

mriforgot
04-26-2012, 08:47 PM
So, with Gilmore and Kirkpatrick off the board, who do the Lions take at 23? Reiff if he's there? Or do they take someone who's fallen (ie. Ingram, Jones).

eeth
04-26-2012, 09:05 PM
I hope Decastro falls, I would love to have the top guard come in and improve our O line.

boknows34
04-26-2012, 09:14 PM
I hope Decastro falls, I would love to have the top guard come in and improve our O line.

Lions on the board. DeCastro, Reiff and Glenn all available.

WMD
04-26-2012, 09:25 PM
Great pick. I didn't expect to be able to choose between Reiff and DeCastro, and you can't really go wrong with either one. Glad we didn't trade up and we ended up getting great value.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-26-2012, 09:28 PM
Rieffff great value. Future LT.

eeth
04-26-2012, 09:40 PM
Yeah can't complain about a LT.

Xiomera
04-26-2012, 09:47 PM
I'd rather have had DeCastro, but this works. I'm glad they went OLine. I didn't see any other position having better value there and it happens to address a need, albeit a second tier need.

BRAVEHEART
04-26-2012, 10:27 PM
I'd rather have had DeCastro, but this works. I'm glad they went OLine. I didn't see any other position having better value there and it happens to address a need, albeit a second tier need.

Exactly, but if we can get Glenn tomorrow, then I'll be alright.

Xiomera
04-26-2012, 10:28 PM
Won't take 2 OLineman at the top. It'd be bold as hell so write off defensive improvement.

Prowler
04-26-2012, 10:38 PM
hopefully teams are scared away from Janoris and we snag him in the 2nd

Xiomera
04-26-2012, 10:43 PM
I'd be beyond shocked if Mayhew took Janoris. He'll steer clear.

bearsfan_51
04-26-2012, 11:18 PM
Yeah can't complain about a LT.
He's not a LT, that's why he dropped to 23.

Xiomera
04-26-2012, 11:23 PM
He's not a LT, that's why he dropped to 23.

Who did the Bears take? A DE? I guess we'll find out who made the better pick when they match up.

bearsfan_51
04-26-2012, 11:24 PM
I don't like the Bears pick. I'm not trying to troll. I think Reiff is a decent pick, because you really need a RT too, but that's what he is. He's a RT that should have gone in the late 1st who got pushed up because this is a weak draft for the o-line.

Ask any Iowa fan what they think of Reilly Reiff. They will all tell you that he never lived up to the hype in college and is much better suited for the right side.

Brothgar
04-26-2012, 11:25 PM
I'm happy with Reiff he is infinately better than Cherilous and I imagine a trade up for Jenkins or Robinson in the 2nd. I would skeet in my pants

WMD
04-26-2012, 11:27 PM
Wonder who we'll get in the 2nd Round... Janoris Jenkins, Cordy Glenn, Amini Silatolu, Zach Brown, Peter Konz, Mychal Kendricks, Vinny Curry, Josh Robinson, George Iloka? I'm open to anything.

Brothgar
04-26-2012, 11:27 PM
I don't like the Bears pick. I'm not trying to troll. I think Reiff is a decent pick, because you really need a RT too, but that's what he is. He's a RT that should have gone in the late 1st who got pushed up because this is a weak draft for the o-line.

Ask any Iowa fan what they think of Reilly Reiff. They will all tell you that he never lived up to the hype in college and is much better suited for the right side.

Iowa OTs usually grade out to RTs in the draft but Rieff vs Cherilous its no comparison BPA for the Lions again. except for Jenkins.

WMD
04-26-2012, 11:32 PM
He's not a LT, that's why he dropped to 23.
I figure that's why he fell, but as long as he's good at whatever he plays, I'm fine. You can't be too picky at #23.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2012, 01:43 AM
He can play LT but he has rather short arms which is his only negative, Add 2 inches to his arm length and he goes top 10. He may start out playing OG which he played in college but eventually, he'll get a shot at LT, RT is a worst case scenario.

I love the pick, Mayhew stayed true to his board and drafted the BPA.

detroit4life
04-27-2012, 02:34 AM
I agree. We can't go wrong with this pick. He will certainly be starting this year somewhere on this line. Not at LT thisyear which will give him time to develop some more. Between him and Fox I have to believe that Mayhew thinks he has his OTs of the future.

I may have preffered Decastro though. Just because he grades out to be a great OG. Ultiamately though, if you look at our division, all the teams are build to rush from the edges, not the middle. With this in mind I'm happy with it. Every team in our division (after CHI and GB both took DEs) has a threat from both sides of the ball so a RT is just as Key.

Next round interests me a lot now. Theres no denying we really need some secondary help, but if Cordy Glen or Kronz is there I wouldn't doubt Mayhew to chalk this draft up as his oline draft. Adding 2 solid young starters would pay dividends in a year or two. Allowing these guys to compete for jobs behind our veterans for a year and then having a nice change over next year. If we actually built a very good line, our offense doesn't have a single flaw in it.

detroit4life
04-27-2012, 02:36 AM
I would keep an eye on the cowboys now. Mike Jenkins is now sitting as hteir 4th CB on the depth chart. Former first who I have always though had some talent. Cowboys will be looking for a DT and don't have a second round pick. I could see us moving Corey, Hill, or maybe fluellen and a low pick for either sensabaugh or jenkins.

D-Unit
04-27-2012, 03:14 AM
I would keep an eye on the cowboys now. Mike Jenkins is now sitting as hteir 4th CB on the depth chart. Former first who I have always though had some talent. Cowboys will be looking for a DT and don't have a second round pick. I could see us moving Corey, Hill, or maybe fluellen and a low pick for either sensabaugh or jenkins.
Jenkins is actually our 3rd best CB now. I wouldn't expect to see him get traded, but there is a chance. Sensy is nothing special... I wouldn't be interested in him if I were you.

Thought you guys were fortunate to find a great value in Rieff where you were picking, but I share Xio's opinion.

detroit4life
04-27-2012, 04:06 AM
Jenkins is actually our 3rd best CB now. I wouldn't expect to see him get traded, but there is a chance. Sensy is nothing special... I wouldn't be interested in him if I were you.

Thought you guys were fortunate to find a great value in Rieff where you were picking, but I share Xio's opinion.

Interesting. I was under the assumption Sensy would be your Nickle guy. Don't know too much about Sensy but you dont think you guys will try and shop a corner?

I'm just saying it would not shock me if Mayhew goes BPA again. And if Kronz or Cordy is there it will test Mayhew's values and blueprint on how he approaches the draft since they would most likely be BPA.

Overall, I am hoping a CB is there that has enough value in Mayhews mind. I think either molk or brewster may be there in the 3rd for us which he may go that route. But i definitley think he goes secondary in round 2. The issue iss that the value has to be there.

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 05:01 AM
He's not a LT right now. But this is really the perfect pick for the Detroit Lions. I'd even take Reiff over DeCastro. Reiff offers us the versatility we needed. We've had the same offensive line for 2 full seasons now. When Reiff comes in, he'll have to compete for a starting job, but they can do so many things with him. They can start him at RT and bump Gosder down to RG. They can start him at RG and keep Gosder. All the while, he'll be working with seasoned veteran Jeff Backus and be an eventual starter at LT.

The Lions don't need to trade up at all. I say stay put, same as in the first round. And continue to take the BPA. You're not going to fail if you get the best player possible in every round. Round two, there's so much talent still on the board. Easily, I could see Amini Silatolu, Josh Robinson, Janoris Jenkins, and Zach Brown being available for us when our pick comes up. And if not all 4 of those guys, at least 2.

Great draft so far for the Lions. They don't need to go safety right away in round 2, though. Iloka might fall, then there's some solid guys that will be available in round 3.

Scotty D
04-27-2012, 05:07 AM
Man, passing on DeCastro might come back and haunt us. I'd at least like to try Reiff out at LT and see if he can handle it.

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 05:11 AM
We don't need him at LT right now. He can afford to take a year or two to be groomed for that.

Scotty D
04-27-2012, 05:17 AM
Very solid pick though. None of this Mike Adams or Jenkins non sense. Mayhew is smooth.

eeth
04-27-2012, 05:38 AM
I didn't know he wasn't projected as a LT but I still like the pick, even though I wanted DeCastro.

noondog
04-27-2012, 05:54 AM
Mayhew drafted Reiff as our LT of the future. He's made that very clear. I think at worst he carries on with career performance that's on par with Backus. In the short-term, RT will be where he cuts his teeth in the NFL. It will be similar to how the 'Boys broke in Tyron Smith. I love the pick and the value.

I would not mind one bit if Mayhew goes back to the O-line in round two. Spending a draft gathering key pieces for the future line is not sexy, but it's certainly going to benefit us in the long run.

I think we can still grab a defensive starter in round 3 if we don't go D in round 2.

georgiafan
04-27-2012, 07:44 AM
Another great draft pick and he will start at somewhere next year on the OL while maybe taking over for LT in the future. Glad the lions didnt trade up

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 07:50 AM
Another great draft pick and he will start at somewhere next year on the OL while maybe taking over for LT in the future. Glad the lions didnt trade up

Yeah, agree 100%. And for round two, there's enough talent on the board to sit there at #54 and just let someone come to you. No need to move up for Jenkins, it's not worth losing picks over. I really like Josh Robinson for the Lions in round 2.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-27-2012, 07:52 AM
Reiff gives the Lions options now and depth if Gosder is pushed to the bench. Reiff has a great shot to be LT of the future(Mayhew said so) or at worst a good RT. Gosder and Hilliard are UFA and Fox is a restricted free agent next year. This pick makes alot of sense and evenmoreso that Reiff may be an upgrade over Gosder definitely and maybe Backus at LT(we shall see on that). Reiff will start this year over Gosder and then maybe they make the switch next year with Backus at RT and Reiff at LT. Thats the best way to do it IMO.

Scott Wright should be happy. Lions finally took a Tackle Round 1.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-27-2012, 07:52 AM
And another thing I love. BPA for sure and no character issues with this farm boy from South Dakota.

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 07:54 AM
I personally think you keep Cherilus in the lineup. Maybe a move to the inside, because I can't stand Stephen Peterman at RG. We also only have 3 Guards on the entire roster right now. It would be good to keep as much consistency as possible on the O-line. jmo

SINCE1978
04-27-2012, 07:58 AM
I like the Reiff pick. GREAT value, he was not even on my radar for guys Detroit would get b/c as the #2 LT typically that is gone in the top 10. As Schwartz said, usually you are onto the #4 or #5 LT at pick #23 so outstanding talent although not the sexiest pick. LT is argualby the #3 most important position behind QB & DE ... getting the #2 talent at that spot is solid, combine that with the one of the oldest O-lines in the NFL, it's a great fit.

2 things...

"What If"
If Perry is a sack master in GB, or Mercilus truly replaces Super Mario in Houston, or if Hightower develops into a Pro Bowl LB in NE <<all likely btw >> It could have turned out a little bit better for Detroit imho, by taking one of those 3 players. But again, I like a player who's adjectives are tough, big, versatile, smart any day of the week. Only real knocks are small feet & short(er) arms ... not crucial. 3x state champ in wrestling, he is a tactical dynamo!!

"What's Next?"
Pick #54: (CB Jenkins - gone?) CB Boykin, DE Branch, DE Curry, OLB Brown, CB Norman
Pick #85: S Iloka, CB Dennard, DE Crick, CB Minnifield

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 08:01 AM
I think...

Pick #54: Josh Robinson CB UCF (I've been high on him all year)
Pick #85: Keenan Robinson LB Texas

Scotty D
04-27-2012, 12:08 PM
These guys will probably go before our pick but I want

Cordy Glenn
Silatolu
Zach Brown
Konz
Vinny Curry
Lamar Miller
Boykin

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-27-2012, 12:16 PM
I personally think you keep Cherilus in the lineup. Maybe a move to the inside, because I can't stand Stephen Peterman at RG. We also only have 3 Guards on the entire roster right now. It would be good to keep as much consistency as possible on the O-line. jmo

Gosder is too inconsistent. Reiff should start at RT and then switch to LT next year. Gosder development time is done after 4 seasons. And Gosder is a huge disappointment in run blocking. He's a free agent next year. Peterman is better than Gosder. Peterman could be upgraded but only if guard is BPA in the next 3 picks and a Round3/4 pick won't replace Peterman IMO.

Mufasa
04-27-2012, 01:12 PM
Man, passing on DeCastro might come back and haunt us. I'd at least like to try Reiff out at LT and see if he can handle it.

I think Reiff is a better pick for Detroit. I think he can play LT, and if he does work out there it's a much better pick than a guard.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Fun Fact Time!

Jeff Backus' arms measured out at 32.5"
Joe Thomas' were 33 3/4"
Riley Reiff's are 33 1/4"

arms are the same as Jordan Gross and 1/8th longer than Jason Peters

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/550086_10150772582378605_95004133604_9676268_20472 23551_n.jpg

That was him arriving at Allen Park today.

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 01:51 PM
Yuck. Showed up in a Lincoln. lol

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Even though I wanted DeCastro, Reiff provides great value at a position of need. Hopefully he can work out as a LT eventually, but even if he doesn't at least he could replace Gosder at RT. For the second round I would like to go CB but I wouldn't mine going OG if someone like Silatolu falls to us(which us unlikely IMO). So my top three for the second round would have to be like this:

1. Janoris Jenkins
2. Amini Silatolu
3. Josh Robinson

DoWnThEfiElD
04-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Pretty cool pick, I'm personally wasn't feeling the depth in the 1st round, so I'd say we did well with a safe pick who should be a consistent performer for us.

I think this pick is even better when taken in the context of our salary situation for the forseeable future. I truely hope we got a highly consistent performer who can be the anchor of our line as it becomes younger, and we can get away without paying him top -5 tackle money.

I hoping we can snag another O-line, two DBs and 1 DE from here on out.

IF we address RB I could stand Miller, or perhaps we can luck out and snag a guy like Edwin Baker in the 6 or 7th (if we have any picks).

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 02:20 PM
We have 2 7th round picks that I'd love to see us go out and get Edwin Baker and Aaron Corp, QB from Richmond.

Scotty D
04-27-2012, 04:50 PM
We have 2 7th round picks that I'd love to see us go out and get Edwin Baker and Aaron Corp, QB from Richmond.

Lets get Vontaze!

WMD
04-27-2012, 05:09 PM
97.1 has been annoying me.. They're all pretty much saying we MUST pick a CB in Round 2. I guess they want a CB just to get one? That's something Matt Millen would do. Like, "Hey, Courtney Upshaw was still there for us, but we passed on him to get that Cornerback we needed. We picked Dwight Bentley.. You know, because we needed a Cornerback. Had to fill that need."

Anyways, there's a few players I'd like to trade up for, but for the most part I'll be happy with whatever falls to us.

BRAVEHEART
04-27-2012, 05:18 PM
Lets get Vontaze!

:smug:

Yeah boy.

Brothgar
04-27-2012, 05:28 PM
I want Josh Robinson!

WMD
04-27-2012, 06:34 PM
There goes Janoris.

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 06:36 PM
There goes Janoris.

Really wanted him to fall, but at least Silatolu and Robinson are still on the board.

EDIT: Well we can forget about Silatolu also. Josh Robinson will probably be our pick in that case.

WMD
04-27-2012, 06:38 PM
anddd there goes Silatolu.. dag nabbit.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 06:41 PM
Haven't determined my preferences in order, but these guys would excite me. I'm cool with double dipping at oline. 2nd rounders have backup type contracts and frankly they could be replacing Backus and Cherilus both by playoff time.

Cordy Glenn
Zach Brown
Vinny Curry
Trumaine Johnson
Josh Robinson
Peter Konz
Bobby Massie
Jonathan Martin
Mike Adams

Prowler
04-27-2012, 07:09 PM
only two guys from the list are gone...just a half dozen or so picks left...

BRAVEHEART
04-27-2012, 07:41 PM
Ryan Broyles!? Even if he was healthy I would've hated this pick. F'n Garbo by Mayhew and crew.

WMD
04-27-2012, 07:42 PM
UaU6NQzEGcg

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 07:43 PM
We could have picked a receiver later in the draft since its not an immediate need. The one thing I can think that Mayhew was thinking was an eventual replacement for Bureleson, but other than that I'm stumped.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 07:52 PM
yeah, I'd give it a C. He'll become a good player, but we're 4 deep now with 2 tight ends added...6 deep at pass catchers...

I would have loved corner or oline.

georgiafan
04-27-2012, 07:52 PM
Count me in in not liking the pick

WMD
04-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Don't hate it, but we could've done better. I'm confused as to why we passed on any defensive player, or OL.. but whatever, we'll see what happens in Round 3 I guess.

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 07:57 PM
They better pick Chris Greenwood in the 4th(mainly because I don't think Johnson or Robinson will fall to us in the 3rd) and Cliff Harris in the 7th.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 08:00 PM
List of predraft workout players that Detroit brought in that are left

March 12 -- Brandon Brooks, OL, Miami (Ohio)
March 13 -- Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina
March 13 -- Kelechi Osemele, OT, Iowa State
March 19 -- Braylon Broughton, DE, TCU
March 21 -- LaMichael James, RB, Oregon
April 10 -- Kaelin Burnett, DE, Nevada
April 11 -- David Douglas, WR, Arizona
April 11 -- Kevin Murphy, OT, Harvard
April 13 -- Keith Tandy, CB, West Virginia
April 13 -- J.C. Oram, OL, Weber State
April 13 -- Dennis Kelly, OT, Purdue
April 16 -- Isaiah Frey, CB, Nevada
April 16 -- Derrick Coleman, RB, UCLA
April 17 -- Josh Kaddu, DE, Oregon
April 17 -- Conroy Black, CB, Utah
April 18 -- Bryce Brown, RB, Kansas State
April 18 -- Lamar Miller, RB, Miami
April 18 -- Rishard Matthews, WR, Nevada
April 18 -- Tyrone Crawford, DE, Boise State

Prowler
04-27-2012, 08:01 PM
what are you guys going to do when they spend a 3rd rounder on a RB?

WMD
04-27-2012, 08:07 PM
what are you guys going to do when they spend a 3rd rounder on a RB?
I will laugh. Not at the Lions, not because it'd be a not so good pick.. but just because I'm sure there's Lions fans out there who'll say "OH **** THIS TEAM CANT DRAFT RIGHT MATT MILLEN PICKING ALL OFFENSE BUILD THE TRENCHES I GIVE UP SAME OLD LIONS"

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 08:07 PM
Janzen Jackson and Cliff Harris in the 6th and 7th just to keep me sane, please.

I hate this Broyles pick, a couple weeks ago I was thinking if we could snag him in the 4th or so I would be happy. But I just don't understand it in this position with our needs.

Can anyone make sense of this pick? Is there some logic that I am missing because it just doesn't make sense to me? Is this Mayhew and the coaching staffs way of saying that our corners and linebackers are better than we think and what was on the board is not better than what we have now?

Triumphdog
04-27-2012, 08:12 PM
The Broyles pick sucks ass...and LaMichael James just went to the 49ers...damn...

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 08:13 PM
Can anyone make sense of this pick? Is there some logic that I am missing because it just doesn't make sense to me? Is this Mayhew and the coaching staffs way of saying that our corners and linebackers are better than we think and what was on the board is not better than what we have now?

I think I can.

Mayhew: "Well Jim, who do you like for our second round pick?"

Schwartz: "I think Konz could be a force on the line, but we also need help in the secondary so we could go for someone like Josh Robinson."

Mayhew: "Yeah those sound pretty good, but I think I have someone who can help us with this pick."

*Millen enters room*

Schwartz: "WTF?! What is he doing here?"

Mayhew: "Don't worry about it Jimmy, me and Matt will take care this."

Schwartz: "But I..."

Mayhew: "I said don't worry about it."

Mayhew: "So big Matt, who do you want with our pick?"

Millen: "Well you know me."

Mayhew: "HaHa, yes I do, you have taught me well, WR it is then."

Schwartz: *Sighs*

WMD
04-27-2012, 08:14 PM
Can anyone make sense of this pick? Is there some logic that I am missing because it just doesn't make sense to me? Is this Mayhew and the coaching staffs way of saying that our corners and linebackers are better than we think and what was on the board is not better than what we have now?
I assume he's insurance for Calvin since he's on the cover of Madden.. other than that, I don't know. He's good and all, but I'm not sure what the fit is or why it was necessary to pick the #3/4 WR in Round 2.

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 08:28 PM
I would have rather had James than Broyles, and both would have been luxury picks. We need to make some good picks in the next couple rounds.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Probably that quality offense players go early, and they believe that they can develop quality defenders out of late rounders. Have them in reserve roles for a year or two and then develop later.

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 08:30 PM
Probably that quality offense players go early, and they believe that they can develop quality defenders out of late rounders. Have them in reserve roles for a year or two and then develop later.

Well put. I am a fan of Broyles but the injury thing is a huge turn off. What's the point of having these great value playmaker picks if they cant play?

Whoa, who is this Josina Anderson chick? She looks like a frog. And Rachel Nichols looks as satanic as ever.

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 08:33 PM
I kinda like that corner from VT who just got busted for weed. He could be developed into something. Hosley?

WMD
04-27-2012, 08:36 PM
I don't even know who to hope for now.. Iloka I guess?

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 08:43 PM
I kinda like that corner from VT who just got busted for weed. He could be developed into something. Hosley?

I would actually be in favor of picking him in the third round. He is a great zone corner and does fairly well in man coverage.

Prowler
04-27-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm cool with Brandon Boykin, Josh Norman, Lamar Miller, Bobby Massie, Ben Jones, Sean Spence, and Cam Johnson.

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 08:46 PM
I'm cool with Brandon Boykin, Josh Norman, Lamar Miller, Bobby Massie, Ben Jones, Sean Spence, and Cam Johnson.

Agreed, although I dont like Boykin, Sean Spence might be had in the 4th. Think Josh Norman would be the pick, heard we like him.


I am a pretty big Iloka fan. Have been for sometime, Phillip Blake too. We still have a chance to make some good picks. Thanks to some of these teams really bunzing. Jacksonville picks a punter in the 3rd? ahahahah

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 09:10 PM
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2012/04/ryan_broyles_pick_explained_by.html

Silver & Blue
04-27-2012, 09:29 PM
Finally a CB.

WMD
04-27-2012, 09:30 PM
Well I knew that would happen when I randomly looked at a CB's name to put in that post earlier..

boknows34
04-27-2012, 09:33 PM
Dwight Bentley

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/dwight-bentley?id=2533024

Still think they could have taken Konz in the 2nd and had Broyles drop to them in the 3rd.

Fred Savage
04-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Dwight Bentley

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/dwight-bentley?id=2533024

Still think they could have taken Konz in the 2nd and had Broyles drop to them in the 3rd.

Like the pick. I agree, think they could have gotten Broyles later, oh well cant make them all.

Asteinebach
04-27-2012, 10:06 PM
Dwight Bentley

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/dwight-bentley?id=2533024

Still think they could have taken Konz in the 2nd and had Broyles drop to them in the 3rd.

Konz has injury concerns. That's why he slipped. In the 3rd round, all we really had to choose from was Nickel/Dime CB's. Boykin would've been better but Bill Bentley is not a bad player. Smallish, but he's got great playing speed.

I'm just so disappointed with Ryan Broyles pick. Shane P Hallam was in chat trying to justify it, but it couldn't be done. Passing on Lavonte David, Josh Robinson, Vinny Curry, and Casey Hayward was a mistake.

WMD
04-28-2012, 12:02 AM
It's one of those picks you'll have to talk yourself into liking. It's not that bad. He's a good player at least.

Scotty D
04-28-2012, 12:07 AM
Our WR depth is pretty bad actually. One injury and we take a major hit. GB took Jordy when they had a full stable of WRs. I'll take it over a RB.

WMD
04-28-2012, 12:17 AM
Our WR depth is pretty bad actually. One injury and we take a major hit. GB took Jordy when they had a full stable of WRs. I'll take it over a RB.
I figure we'll go with Calvin/Burleson/Titus/Broyles and then dump Burleson after this season... at which point we'll probably pick a 6'4" red zone WR in the 3rd.

Scotty D
04-28-2012, 01:14 AM
We were also deeper in round 2 than Lions fans are used to. It was nice picking in those top 10 or so picks after round 1.

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 01:36 AM
I like the Broyles pick from a pure talent perspective. But from an overall perspective of his draft stock I truly believe that we could have snatched him up in the 4th round. So I do believe we overreached if we are talking about his actual draft stock. But hopefully he ends up being good and I remember saying the exact thing Scotty said about if one of our top three receivers goes down with an injury we would be in trouble. So I definitely wanted a fourth WR just not this early. Although Broyles will probably replace Burleson sometime in the future and maybe become a #2 receiver eventually.

DoWnThEfiElD
04-28-2012, 08:40 AM
I like the Broyles pick from a pure talent perspective. But from an overall perspective of his draft stock I truly believe that we could have snatched him up in the 4th round. So I do believe we overreached if we are talking about his actual draft stock.

I have to believe that they had some inside info that he potentially wouldn't be there when they picked next. I'm warming up to the pick more and more because our depth was real bad. Mayhew and Schwartz both being "defensive guys" must have thought that is where better value was.

I am wondering if Mayhew, being a former DB, is too critical when analyzing these guys and tends to underrate them. I doubt it, but you never know.

georgiafan
04-28-2012, 09:48 AM
center ben jones from Uga would make sense in round 4

Asteinebach
04-28-2012, 10:27 AM
I like Terrell Manning or Ronnell Lewis for round 4. Possibly David Molk in round 5. But these will be our last two meaningful draft picks. So Whatever they do, I'd like to see a combination of any LB, DL, OL or Safety.

Fred Savage
04-28-2012, 11:01 AM
Phillip Blake, Ben Jones or Geore Iloka in round 4 for me. For some reason I am high on George Iloka think he could be good if given a year to develop.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 11:08 AM
I want a Safety, Running Back and Linebacker today. Or else.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 12:15 PM
Traded down 9 slots, picked up a 6th rounder. I'll take it. At this point, it's almost quantity over quality since all of these guys are basically lottery tickets.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 12:17 PM
Keyshawn Martin from MSU just went #121. I'll be very curious to see if he turns out better than Ryan Broyles. I'm not a Spartans fan, but I've always thought Martin could make an excellent pro. He'd be a stud return man.

boknows34
04-28-2012, 12:30 PM
I like Terrell Manning or Ronnell Lewis for round 4. Possibly David Molk in round 5. But these will be our last two meaningful draft picks. So Whatever they do, I'd like to see a combination of any LB, DL, OL or Safety.

Ronnell Lewis and an extra 6th rd pick.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 12:38 PM
I like the Lewis pick. Apparently, Schwartz views him as a DE though, which is odd. His supposed strength is his tackling. Gonna be a great special teamer, they say.

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 12:47 PM
I like the Lewis pick too! I thought he was BPA for awhile in rd 4. Thought they were taking him @ 22, so to drop a few slots, pick up a 6th & get him is great. 36 reps of 225 & a 4.6 ... Dang! Bentley should be solid too, Broyles is a position of debate but I like his skills. Burleson will not play more than 2 more seasons I bet. All 4 picks so far seem to have a very "lunch pail" mentality, which works for me, & Deroit.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 12:50 PM
I want a safety next. They really have no one in the way of a developmental guy at that position, do they? Silva still here?

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 12:56 PM
I want a safety next. They really have no one in the way of a developmental guy at that position, do they? Silva still here?

Agree.
Yeah looks like Silva is still listed on 2012 roster ...
Iloka, Martin, Allen, Robinson all still available. GB just took a S from Maine?! WTF

cotts1
04-28-2012, 12:57 PM
I like the Reiff pick. Lions would love to be a little more balanced offensively but the reality is we are a passing team. Pass protectors are much more valuable to us than run blockers like DeCastro.

Broyles was a shocker but I understand the pick. He was considered by many as a 1st round talent before the ACL injury. The fact that he was ready to workout for teams 3 months after his surgery is ridiculous. He should be ready to go when training camp gets here. Seems as though the Lions want to emulate the Packers by being able to roll out 4-5 highly capable WR/TE's on the field at any given time.

I love the Bentley pick. I would have loved if the Lions traded up to get Jenkins in round 2 but Bentley was the guy I wanted in round 3. He has a very similar skill set to Jenkins. Obviously hasn't proved it against elite competition but he has the raw talent required to be a good NFL CB.

Ronnell Lewis looks like a good pick as well. Tweener but has a chance to be successful in our scheme.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:18 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOO! We've got another Doug Hogue on our hands here, folks. Whitehead for a future 4th? No thanks.

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Whitehead pick interesting, at least it's more back 7 help! Still have 23rd pick in 5th, again hoping S.

Just read Jake Long might be on the outs in Miami with them drafting Stanford's Martin & going more finess. Wow. I know it's fantasy, but Reiff as RT & Long LT, that would be sweet! $11m sweet right? Hahaha....

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:21 PM
They re-signed Backus. Won't happen.

cotts1
04-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Do not understand why they would give up a future 4th to get Whitehead....seriously who would have taken him before the Lions pick at 158. Seems like Mayhew is just making trades for fun now....

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:24 PM
I also don't get the valuation of picks. Either the Lions badly overspent to get that pick, or they didn't get enough from the 49ers earlier.

cotts1
04-28-2012, 01:25 PM
They re-signed Backus. Won't happen.

Not a guaranteed contract though....

cotts1
04-28-2012, 01:27 PM
I also don't get the valuation of picks. Either the Lions badly overspent to get that pick, or they didn't get enough from the 49ers earlier.

Agreed, I think we just overpaid for Whitehead.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:31 PM
Not a guaranteed contract though....

It ain't happenin.

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 01:36 PM
Yes! Greenwood!!!!!

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 01:45 PM
I also don't get the valuation of picks. Either the Lions badly overspent to get that pick, or they didn't get enough from the 49ers earlier.

Agree............

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 01:47 PM
Yes! Greenwood!!!!!

Seriously?? I like the Albion thing,that's cute but really? What do you know about him ....

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:48 PM
We just drafted a practice squad guy. No way the Lions have 2 of their 5 corners on the 53-man roster be rookies.

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 01:55 PM
We just drafted a practice squad guy. No way the Lions have 2 of their 5 corners on the 53-man roster be rookies.

Probably true of whitehead w/ LB corp... Tulloch,Levy,Durant,Lewis,Palmer,Hogue etc do they keep that many for special teams??

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 01:56 PM
Lewis is viewed as a DE by the Lions' brass.

And I don't remember Hogue doing a single thing last year.

boknows34
04-28-2012, 02:01 PM
Greenwood is 6-1, 193 with 4.43 speed and a 43" vertical.

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 02:14 PM
Seriously?? I like the Albion thing,that's cute but really? What do you know about him ....

His draft stock was rising quite a bit in the past couple of weeks. He has a 43 inch vertical and ran a 4.41 40 time at his pro day, so their is no doubt about his measurables. I have watched a decent amount of his game film(TONS of it on YouTube of him) and you can tell that QBs try to avoid throwing to his side of the field. I don't think he'll make an impact right away, but I think he will sometime in the future.

georgiafan
04-28-2012, 02:17 PM
So how many picks Is left¿

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 02:25 PM
So how many picks Is left¿

We have 1 in the 6th and 1 in the 7th left.

BRAVEHEART
04-28-2012, 03:03 PM
Outside of Bentley, I don't like this draft. First Mayhew draft that I just don't like.

Prowler
04-28-2012, 03:49 PM
I'm going with an initial B for the draft. Nobody can argue that Reiff wasn't a good pick. DeCastro will probably be better, but an opportunity for an offensive tackle was just too good. The Broyles pick was ******** because we could have had a stronger oline, a better corner, or a DE to leverage against Avril. I am against the pick, but he does have his advantages. I'm not worried about his knee, ask the Patriots how Wes Welker's knee was been a huge concern last season. He'll be fine and probably will be an explosive weapon that opens the offense up even more. Its hard to argue against getting people who can put the ball in the end zone. Hopefully the D gels even more and a successful offseason with mini camps and practices will get them playing better. With the rest of the draft, well we do need depth and it would be nice to upgrade our special teams.

If Reiff turns out to be our left tackle for the next decade, then nobody will care that some corner that probably won't even amount to anything anyway wasn't picked in the 2nd round. They'll just see Ryan 'Welker' Broyles scoring TDs and moving the chains.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 04:02 PM
C+ ... picks have been WAY too developmental the last three players.

Prowler
04-28-2012, 04:22 PM
those picks don't really matter

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 04:24 PM
those picks don't really matter

Perennially good teams find starters in the late rounds all the time. They DO matter, and I don't see anyone whose ceiling is a future starter.

Fred Savage
04-28-2012, 04:44 PM
Did anyone pick up George Iloka?

Edit: Wow I like Cinncys draft

BRAVEHEART
04-28-2012, 05:04 PM
Okay, it's clear Mayhew lost a bet to somebody in the organization who's a OU fan.:facepalm:

Prowler
04-28-2012, 05:10 PM
...nobody cares about late rounders. We'll find a situational pass rusher and some linebackers. The corners won't beat out anybody we have, but there's nobody else in the draft after the 3rd round who would of had a chance to do that anyway.

BRAVEHEART
04-28-2012, 05:13 PM
...nobody cares about late rounders. We'll find a situational pass rusher and some linebackers. The corners won't beat out anybody we have, but there's nobody else in the draft after the 3rd round who would of had a chance to do that anyway.

Speak for yourself. Studs are found everywhere including after the draft.

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Well, at least I got my Chris Greenwood and Travis Lewis picks right even though they were off by a round or two. Personally I will give this draft a B-. The pick that really took me by surprise was the Broyles pick. Not because he isn't talented but I thought we could have got him in the third or fourth round. Besides our two first rounds the rest of the picks we made were developmental picks and I hope Schwartz and the rest of the staff can make them into good players, but only time will tell.

Xiomera
04-28-2012, 05:21 PM
Travis Lewis is a good pick. Reminds me of when we took Follett in the 7th. A LB that was highly-regarded prior to slipping during his senior year.

Mufasa
04-28-2012, 05:29 PM
I really like the Ronnell Lewis pick if the defensive can find creative ways to use him.

SINCE1978
04-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Did anyone pick up George Iloka?

Edit: Wow I like Cinncys draft

Yeah they had a weekend, for sure!

Silver & Blue
04-28-2012, 07:20 PM
Looks like we just signed Kellen Moore as a UDFA.

Brothgar
04-28-2012, 08:01 PM
Looks like we just signed Kellen Moore as a UDFA.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25100000/Vince-Lombardi-Trophy-returned-to-Title-Town-green-bay-packers-25169869-515-445.jpg

Mufasa
04-28-2012, 08:08 PM
alkjfsssssssnmcvjkearikkkkcedslv

Iamcanadian
04-28-2012, 08:28 PM
I think we are seeing a new phenomena on the Lion's draft. We are actually drafting to improve our special teams and correct any depth problems rather than try to reach for very questionable starter prospects because we are desperate. It is how the very good teams draft and I guess we are now entering that special group.
There is also the strong possibility that these kinds of special teamers develop as starters down the road. That is how the better teams develop players.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2012, 08:33 PM
Did anyone pick up George Iloka?

Edit: Wow I like Cinncys draft

Cincy's drafts always look good on paper because they are very thin in scouts and are forced to rely on only a few guys to find prospects for them. Every year, they stick with the name players even if everybody else passes on them, because they have no way to find the more obscure types who turnout to be far better picks.
It may look good on paper but in the end, it usually ends up being rather mediocre.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2012, 08:39 PM
I'm going with an initial B for the draft. Nobody can argue that Reiff wasn't a good pick. DeCastro will probably be better, but an opportunity for an offensive tackle was just too good. The Broyles pick was ******** because we could have had a stronger oline, a better corner, or a DE to leverage against Avril. I am against the pick, but he does have his advantages. I'm not worried about his knee, ask the Patriots how Wes Welker's knee was been a huge concern last season. He'll be fine and probably will be an explosive weapon that opens the offense up even more. Its hard to argue against getting people who can put the ball in the end zone. Hopefully the D gels even more and a successful offseason with mini camps and practices will get them playing better. With the rest of the draft, well we do need depth and it would be nice to upgrade our special teams.

If Reiff turns out to be our left tackle for the next decade, then nobody will care that some corner that probably won't even amount to anything anyway wasn't picked in the 2nd round. They'll just see Ryan 'Welker' Broyles scoring TDs and moving the chains.

I think Broyles has a very solid shot to be a real star. He's coming off of an injury so he got zero hype because he couldn't workout, but you can be sure that Mathew did a thorough medical check on the guy and there was no way he was getting out of round 2.

I absolutely love the Reiff pick, he played OG, RT and LT in college. They will play him for a year at RT or OG and then he will replace Backus as a seasoned vet when Backus retires.

And I also love the Bentley pick. He's a tough little guy who won't back down from anybody which is the type of player Schwartz covets.

Asteinebach
04-28-2012, 08:58 PM
Ronnell Lewis may become the most prolific player we drafted. He's a sleeper guy with great pass-rushing skills. I think they might even try him down with his hand in the dirt in nickel packages. I love that pick. Travis Lewis isn't a bad player either, and Chris Greenwood is the perfect fit for our defense. I think Bill Bentley was an average pick, same as Broyles.

Fred Savage
04-28-2012, 09:03 PM
Oh wow, didnt know that about Cinncy.

I hope this is one of those drafts that when we look back it was really effective. You made some great points Canadian. This draft doesnt look sexy on paper but I am stating to come around. I am still kinda puzzled by the trade up for Whitehead though. Can anyone make sense of that?

Iamcanadian
04-28-2012, 09:47 PM
Oh wow, didnt know that about Cinncy.

I hope this is one of those drafts that when we look back it was really effective. You made some great points Canadian. This draft doesnt look sexy on paper but I am stating to come around. I am still kinda puzzled by the trade up for Whitehead though. Can anyone make sense of that?

When teams trade up it is usually because they asbsolutely love somebody so that should be a great thing.

Scotty D
04-29-2012, 07:50 AM
If we hit on 1 DB and one of the LBs I'll be happy. Giving up the future 4th was dumb. Feels like they got antsy.

Asteinebach
04-29-2012, 07:57 AM
If we hit on 1 DB and one of the LBs I'll be happy. Giving up the future 4th was dumb. Feels like they got antsy.

Time will tell on this one. If the kid comes in and makes an impact as a rookie, then it'll be worth it. 4th round value on players, you're looking for sleepers anyway. They knew they didn't have a 6th and they had some guys in the draft that they still saw as a fit.

I think Ronnell Lewis and Chris Greenwood may be the cream of our crop. Obviously Riley is going to make an impact, if he gets on the field. And Broyles may be a good pick in the long term, but he won't make a difference in 2012.

Prowler
04-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Here are some articles about the Lion's thoughts on some of the later prospects.

Bill Bentley
http://blogs.detroitlions.com/2012/04/28/nfl-films-greg-cosell-breaks-down-lions-first-three-picks/

“I liked Bentley on film. I think he’s an off-coverage corner. He’s what we call a cluer and keyer. He does a very good job reading the triangle (reading from the corner through the quarterback). He has similar attributes to Asante Samuel. That’s the style of corner he is.”

Chris Greenwood
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/draft/article-1/Twentyman-Lions-see-Chris-Greenwood-as-their-Brandon-Carr/fa7b58c9-a2e0-4639-ac3c-567521c1c7d8

“Rob Lohman, who scouts that area, came back and raved about his physical talent and skill,” Lions general manager Martin Mayhew said of Greenwood.

“We had him in for the private workout and he was just phenomenal; great guy. He had transferred to a couple different schools (Northwood, Eastern Michigan and then Albion), but (is) just really, really physically gifted.

“We all go through this process and we have several guys in the draft who we like, everybody liked Chris Greenwood as a Lion. The guy just has some real skill set.

“Gunther (Cunningham) was in Kansas City when they drafted Brandon Carr and he thought that this guy kind of reminded him of that process.”

Jonte Green
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/draft/article-1/Lions-liked-Jonte-Green-all-through-the-pre-draft-process/1a507cea-97b5-4228-a77c-fb2842cacacc

"My visit was great,” Green said. “I knew coach (Marcus) Robertson, I saw him at my pro day. He already had high expectations of me. He knows what kind of player I can become. I came in there met the coach and felt real good about the opportunity and I actually feel real good about the team."

Green should feel good about the open vacancy the Lions have at one of the starting cornerback spots opposite Chris Houston and he should get a chance to compete for it.

“He jumped through a lot of hoops for us,” Lions head coach Jim Schwartz said of the pre-draft process with Green.

“We liked his combination of size and speed and aggressiveness. He’s an aggressive tackler.”

Travis Lewis
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/draft/article-1/Travis-Lewis-coming-to-Detroit-with-a-chip-on-his-shoulder/2868ccb2-0f5a-467e-ab98-e653166912d1

“He played this last year hurt – he broke his toe early in the season and it affected him,” Schwartz said.

“But if you look back, he has a history of production at a Big 12 school. He was Big 12 Freshman of the Year, has been on the All-Big 12 team a bunch of times. He didn’t run real well, but if you watch him on the field, he plays fast.

“As much as anything, a guy that steps right on the field in college at a major level of competition and starts for four years, I’ve got a lot of respect for that. He showed a lot of toughness this year and he’s been productive.”

Like Temple linebacker Tahir Whitehead, who the Lions selected in the fifth round, Lewis can come in right away and help on special teams and compete for the Lions' fourth linebacker spot, which doesn’t have anyone’s name etched in stone on it right now.

Also, apparently "The Hammer" is a big bullrider.

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/draft/article-1/OHara-Lewis-brings-some-plain-old-country-character-to-Detroit/758c1986-f6fc-41d2-b7b9-2a6b8bffe3b1

"Inflict pain," Lewis said in a conference-call interview with the Detroit media Saturday afternoon.

He grew up in Dewar, Oklahoma, population 918 according to the 2010 census. The Dewar Dragons played eight-man football. Despite that, Lewis was a high school All-American and wound up getting a scholarship to Oklahoma.

One scouting service rated him the No. 2 high school linebacker in the nation after his 2008 season. Lewis was a two-way player at Dewar. As a junior, he hit the 2,000-yard rushing mark and scored 40 touchdowns. On defense, he had 11 interceptions.

He was a power-lifter in high school and also participated in another sport – rodeo. He was a bullrider. He gave that up when he got to Oklahoma.

"Right now, I just train horses," Lewis said.

He said he liked the "adrenalin" of bullriding.

"It's the rush," he said. "It's like taking a skydive. It's real intense."

He's ridden bulls for the full eight-second time limit "a few times," but he's also been thrown off.

detroit4life
04-30-2012, 05:48 AM
Not a sexy draft at all but has the makings of a draft that could look great in a couple years. If broyles allows us to cut Burleson's contract next year its aplus for us (burleson is getting paid a lot).

If we get a starter quality player out of any of those CBs or LBs its a plus for us. It will take time, but with the amount of holes on this team right now and the age of our superstars thats how we need to address it. When drafting at 23 as a team with very little cash, I like hiw Mayhew treated thist draft. You can't fix such a wide array of holes in one year. However, this draft many have fixed a lot for 2 years down the line.

I'll give it a B. I still question the Broyles pick and would have preffered an impact defensive player but we can give it time. Development of some of these players are crucial. Schwartz and Cunningham have a pretty good track record of developing CBs (Carr and Finnegan come to mind). Lets hope thats the approach they are taking

jayceheathman
04-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Lewis is viewed as a DE by the Lions' brass.

And I don't remember Hogue doing a single thing last year.

Jonte Green is not that good and I have watched him his whole career. When Devon House was on the team, the teams always picked on Green. This last year wasn't too bad for him.

Asteinebach
04-30-2012, 03:08 PM
I like Ronnell Lewis at defensive end. Arms are a little short, but he plays with a high level of intensity. Travis Lewis will play outside, and he'll likely just be special teams and a depth player. But he still plays with a full head of steam.

Again, I'm really excited about local prospect Chris Greenwood. I think he might have been the biggest sleeper pick for us. He's got great size, 4.35 speed, and some decent ball skills.

Is there anyone who expects anything from Ryan Broyles in his 1st year? As far as I know, he's starting the season on the PUP, and might even have to go onto the IR once the season starts. I can't imagine this guy being an impact player for us. He's also really small. 5'10" and 182lbs? He's never going to make it at the next level. But I'm sure we'll have tons of fun see Josh Robinson against the Vikings twice a year.

Prowler
04-30-2012, 03:47 PM
I do think that Broyles will be a stud. I'm not worried about ACLs with slot wide receivers. Wes Welker wasn't slowed at all last season. Broyles is even walking and running now anyway. He just can't step in any cleat holes or anything on the field and continue rebuilding strength on it.

Scotty D
04-30-2012, 11:23 PM
Does anyone else think the Bears had a pretty terrible draft? Not worried at all about that class.

Brothgar
04-30-2012, 11:31 PM
Does anyone else think the Bears had a pretty terrible draft? Not worried at all about that class.

I'm concerned about Alshon classic boom or bust. But if he booms OH what a boom he will be. Shea will be productive as long as J Pep is on the other side. Nothing else really awes me.

detroit4life
05-01-2012, 02:39 AM
I'm concerned about Alshon classic boom or bust. But if he booms OH what a boom he will be. Shea will be productive as long as J Pep is on the other side. Nothing else really awes me.

Alshon does not concern me to be honest. For starters he is a very poor mans Brandon Marshall already. Problem is, he is much slower than Marshall and when i say very poor i mean VERY poor version of him.

He won't get open. Seperation is a big issue for him and Cutler doesn't have good enough accuracy to drop it in to him IMO. I'm sure he will make some highlight catches here and there and may be an option in the endzone but he will have a hard time finding the field

Prowler
05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
http://blogs.detroitlions.com/2012/05/01/early-look-at-the-jersey-numbers-for-lions-draft-picks/
jersey numbers

Riley Reiff #71

Ryan Broyles #84

Bill Bentley #28

Ronnell Lewis #97

Tahir Whitehead #59

Chris Greenwood #33

Jonte Green #36

Travis Lewis #50

SINCE1978
05-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Not a very scary draft in Chicago, I agree. But lke Detroit, they are getting a few key players back from injury (Cutler & Forte are like our Best, Delmas & Fairley) & a rookie T last year Gabe Carimi (like our RB Leshoure) who never played due to an early injury.

Iamcanadian
05-02-2012, 07:44 PM
Does anyone else think the Bears had a pretty terrible draft? Not worried at all about that class.

Personally, I think all the NFC North teams improved themselves, I don't like Jeffery for Chicago but McClellin is a perfect Cover 2 DE. Minny took Cleveland to the cleaners to move down one spot and still be guaranteed to get Kalil and Green Bay did quite well, so I don't think we lost or gained any ground in the draft.
We are a serious Super Bowl threat as long as injuries don't derail us.

Scotty D
05-02-2012, 10:51 PM
Yeah, its kind of scary to think of what GB did last season with a very questionable defense.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
05-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Yeah, its kind of scary to think of what GB did last season with a very questionable defense.

I agree but I don't think their offense will be as incredible as they were. The Pack O was phenomenal last year. Rodgers will still have a very good year but I just can't see him doing that freakisly well again. 40 plus tds and onl 6 picks. 120 rating and high 60 some percent (was 70 some percent during the the first half). That won't happen again. More like 2010 and 2009 numbers for the Pack O which is still very good but not ridiculous. Bears twice, Saints, Houston, Giants, San Fran better bring their A games against the Pack to give them some losses and the Lions better split at least. Must stay healthy for that.

Also their D, is relying on two rookies and Peprah still. Cullen Jenkins did so much for that D. Jenkins numbers(sacks/hits/pressures) in 2010 were very very good and Raji had a very good year in 2010 and then a poor year in 2011(28 more sacks/hits/pressures combined by Raji in 2010 compared to 2011). Worthy down the line could be a Jenkins but as a rookie I just don't see Worthy being a Jenkins. Perry is talented and their pass rush will be better but it won't be 2010 D good, just middle of the pack. I think the Lions D will be better IF the Lions D stays fairly healthy. Lions Dline is very good and deep, LBs are solid and secondary was top 5 before injuries and now I think the Lions have better depth.

Iamcanadian
05-03-2012, 11:53 AM
I agree but I don't think their offense will be as incredible as they were. The Pack O was phenomenal last year. Rodgers will still have a very good year but I just can't see him doing that freakisly well again. 40 plus tds and onl 6 picks. 120 rating and high 60 some percent (was 70 some percent during the the first half). That won't happen again. More like 2010 and 2009 numbers for the Pack O which is still very good but not ridiculous. Bears twice, Saints, Houston, Giants, San Fran better bring their A games against the Pack to give them some losses and the Lions better split at least. Must stay healthy for that.

Also their D, is relying on two rookies and Peprah still. Cullen Jenkins did so much for that D. Jenkins numbers(sacks/hits/pressures) in 2010 were very very good and Raji had a very good year in 2010 and then a poor year in 2011(28 more sacks/hits/pressures combined by Raji in 2010 compared to 2011). Worthy down the line could be a Jenkins but as a rookie I just don't see Worthy being a Jenkins. Perry is talented and their pass rush will be better but it won't be 2010 D good, just middle of the pack. I think the Lions D will be better IF the Lions D stays fairly healthy. Lions Dline is very good and deep, LBs are solid and secondary was top 5 before injuries and now I think the Lions have better depth.

I'm not sure that offenses will decline even a bit. The new rules have really opened up the passing attacks and I don't think last season was just a one year wonder. I think they will have to change the rules again to give defenses a real shot at stopping the pass otherwise, the completion stats will remain ridiculous and all previous passing records will go by the wayside, not because the current players are better but simply because the rules have become ludicrous.

Green Bay and a healthy Chicago are going to be tough nuts but we haven't reached our potential and can still get a lot better so I'm not worried. It is going to be a real dog fight to the end which should set up a Super Bowl win for the survivor.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
05-03-2012, 12:07 PM
Very true. The new rules really help Green Bay, Detroit, New England, New Orleans out. Good QB and plethora of weapons and you get Green Bays year and the Lions having a 5,000 yard QB.

I just hope Green Bay comes back to Earth though. Still top 5 in the league but not second scoring offense of all time.

Like I said Houston,San Fran, Chicago twice, New York better bring their A games to give Green Bay some losses(because Saints,Falcons,Chicago twice and even Detroit didn't last year, Giants were close) to give Detroit a chance. And Detroit has to split with Green Bay. November game is huge. Detroit had to play Green Bay and New Orleans twice without Houston and Delmas for two games last year. Houston played hurt in Week 17 and Delmas played hurt in playoff game and Houston went down in 2nd Quarter of the playoff game. It spelled disaster especially when the Dline didn't show up either. I think with Houston,Delmas and the Lions pass rush, we match up very well against Green Bay. It was 0-0 mid 2nd Qtr until Houston and Delmas went down last year and 7-3. Prior to them going down with injuries Green Bay hadn't scored a td on us in almost 8 Quarters (second half game 1 2010, all game 2 2010 and most of first half game 1 2011 prior to injuries).

Prowler
10-24-2012, 09:09 AM
alright... we are 2-4 with our remaining schedule: Seattle, @Jacksonville, @Minnesota, Green Bay, Houston, Indianapolis, @Green Bay, @Arizona, Atlanta, and Chicago.

With the way that we are currently playing, I will project us to finish around 6-10. We could easily finish 9-7, but I think the safe money is on 6-10. (We can beat Seattle, Jacksonville, Minnesota, Indy, and Arizona but we'll f*ck up at least one of those games and maybe steal a late season win from Atlanta or Chicago)

6-10, historically into the 6-12 range of draft picks.

We'll say Geno Smith and Barkley still manage to go top 5.
We'll pretend for argument's sake that we will not take Star Lotulelei or Johnathan Hankins.

Highest Currently Rated Guys in No Order(Value to Us)
Jarvis Jones(Top3)
Barkevious Mingo(Top 3)
Chance Warmack(Mid-Late 1st)
Manti Te'o(1st)
Bjeorn Warner(Top 10)
Robert Woods(1st)
Justin Hunter(1st)
Dee Milliner(Top 10)
Luke Joeckel(Top 10)
Johnthan Banks(Top 10)
Marcus Lattimore(1st)
Sam Montgomery(Top 10)

Personal Projected Bottom Teams
Jacksonville(1-5) Geno
Cleveland(1-6) Jarvis
Kansas City(1-5) Barkley
Carolina(1-5) Star/DE
Tampa Bay(2-4) Milliner
Oakland(2-4) Hankins/Star
NY Jets(3-4) Robert Woods
St. Louis(3-4) Joeckel
Buffalo(3-4) QB? Hunter? Mingo?

So, we're looking at Barkevious Mingo, Montgomery, Warner, Te'o, Banks, etc. I don't like MLBs this early unless they are Patrick Willis...Do we snatch Banks for need or go with a stud DE? David Amerson should be late 1st. I really do like the potential 2nd Round CBs like Desmond Trufant and Xavier Rhodes. Chance Warmack would be great...but guards should ideally be taken in the middle rounds.

Somewhere around us
Tennessee(3-4)
Cincinnati(3-4)
Washington(3-4)
New Orleans(2-4)
Philadelphia(3-3)
Miami(3-3)

Maybe This Year Mayhew
10-24-2012, 09:32 AM
Nooooooooooo I refuse until they get to 6 losses.

Prowler
10-24-2012, 09:40 AM
lol, if we start tanking now they we can dump Suh and get Lotulelei...

WMD
10-24-2012, 11:32 AM
We were supposed to be looking forward to the playoffs.. not the draft. Thanks, Madden Curse!

Prowler
10-24-2012, 02:41 PM
We were supposed to be looking forward to the playoffs.. not the draft. Thanks, Madden Curse!

If Barry Sanders were to unretire...do you think we'd make the playoffs? Michael Vick all of a sudden would become good again, and there would be peace on Earth.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
10-29-2012, 02:08 PM
See. Beat Jags and the Lions are back in things at 4-4. Especially if Vikings lose at Seattle. Lions/Vikings could be huge

noondog
10-30-2012, 04:03 PM
So we got Mike Thomas from the Jags. I wish our secondary was just half as deep as our receiving core.

Prowler
10-30-2012, 04:32 PM
Well...maybe if Calvin would stop dropping balls like a little punk. I swear that he's dropped more balls this year than he has in a couple seasons.

WMD
10-30-2012, 09:31 PM
I like Mike Thomas but I don't think we needed to trade for a WR. He's a good #2 though and had a good year back when Mike Sims-Walker was relevant.. Mike Thomas can return punts and kicks, so maybe he's a replacement for Stefan Logan? We do have Justin Miller on the roster though, so I don't really get it. Hopefully we didn't give up anything under a 6th for him.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
10-31-2012, 08:16 AM
2014 5th round pick for him. Justin Miller cut. Thomas will challenge Logan for returns and good depth for the future in the slot with him and Broyles on the team. Burleson is cut next year for sure

noondog
11-19-2012, 07:49 AM
Well, this thread should start picking up steam again.

fml

Maybe This Year Mayhew
11-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Yeah 6 losses before Thanksgiving. Barring a miracle 6-0 streak or 5-1 with alot of teams crumbling in the Vikings, Bucs, Cowboys and Saints. Though they play each other and Vikings still have 4 vs Bears/Pack games.

Such a what could have been season. 4 special teams returns, 1 fumble and 2 int returns allowed (most in the league). And Redzone woes and defensive 4th Quater woes at crucial times(at San Fran, OT Titans, at Vikings, Green Bay).

I vote DE(can't stand KVB, Jackson or Young this season) and Safety(due to Delmas injuries) with interior Oline help(Peterman/Raiola) in the mid rounds. And Pettigrew, Scheffler and Titus better get their act together next year and Stafford needs to be way more consistent(games like Green Bay 45% can't happen).

detroit4life
11-19-2012, 11:37 PM
Ahh back to this again....

I think it is guaranteed a CB or DE. Maybe LB but Te'o doesn't make sense when we just signed tulloch.

Mayhew is bound to make some serious cuts after this season. I expect KVB and Burleson gone. Avril shown the door or re-signed to a lower contract than we offered last offseason. I have to assume Corey Williams will be traded or cut, fairley needs to be playing every down as a #13 overall pick.

Other cuts will be backus or gosder. This will allow Mayhew to bring in atleast 1 veteran DB and franchise delmas. Therefore I think DE is a good bet.

Mingo would add some scary speed next to suh and fairley....

Maybe This Year Mayhew
11-20-2012, 07:52 AM
Ahh back to this again....

I think it is guaranteed a CB or DE. Maybe LB but Te'o doesn't make sense when we just signed tulloch.

Mayhew is bound to make some serious cuts after this season. I expect KVB and Burleson gone. Avril shown the door or re-signed to a lower contract than we offered last offseason. I have to assume Corey Williams will be traded or cut, fairley needs to be playing every down as a #13 overall pick.

Other cuts will be backus or gosder. This will allow Mayhew to bring in atleast 1 veteran DB and franchise delmas. Therefore I think DE is a good bet.

Mingo would add some scary speed next to suh and fairley....

Corey Williams, Levy, Delmas, Durant, Avril, Lawrence Jackson, Chris Houston, Sammie Lee Hill, Lacey, Florence, Ashlee Palmer, Jason Hanson, Gosder Cherilus are free agents. Willie Young, Jason Fox and Spievey are restricted free agents.

Out of those I think Delmas is franchised due to knee issues and the safety tag not being bad, hopefully we get Houston back or we are in trouble in the secondary as he is the only consistent cover man, Sammie Lee Hill back and cheaper than free agent Corey Williams and one of Durant or Levy back but probably not both (Tahir Whitehead or Travis Lewis may be playing next year). It's going to be very tight because Stafford is over 20 million cap number with not much wiggle room from allocated signing bonuses and Suh is at 18 plus million cap number. New contract for Suh could help but Stafford has too much signing bonus money due. The old CBA and now some restructures we made still screws us.

Raiola, KVB and Burleson will be cap cuts. No doubt about that. KVB has sucked so bad this year. Avril depends on what we can offer, he's our only solid DE but he's not a good DE like he thinks. He may walk if they don't agree on the contract.

Gosder might be resigned if they get rid of Backus. But I think I'd rather let Gosder walk, roll with Reiff and Backus for a year.

Hanson enjoy him while you can, we might not have the cap luxury for a 3 million dollar kicker.

Changes are coming in Motown. Some could be addition by subtraction but some we may not be able to replace especially if Avril and Houston walk.

detroit4life
11-22-2012, 04:54 PM
I think corey williams is gone. Fairley has played great and his price tag too high.

bigredballer
12-11-2012, 10:34 PM
Do you mean Dee Milliner? Mark Barron was drafted by TB last year #7 overall.

WMD
12-11-2012, 11:52 PM
I don't know much about anybody yet.. but so far I'm thinking Sam Montgomery might be a good one for us. Xavier Rhodes intrigues me.

I mainly judge players based on their size and name. Some guys just don't have the name of a good player. For example, Bjoern Werner does not sound like a good player name. I will pass on him.

and yes, I am aware that this means we'll be drafting Bjoern Werner.

weasel
12-12-2012, 06:32 AM
I think the DE's are in play so Guys like Woerner, Mingo, Montgomery and Damontre Moore enter the discussion. I think T'eo is the next Urlacher. Jarvis Jones is a contender and might be too good to pass up. Then there is Banks, Milliner and Vaccaro. Also, there is Joekel and Warmack. If the pick does not come from these eleven guys I should eat my hat.

Prowler
12-16-2012, 06:56 PM
Draft Order(i'm using SoS that is a week old, so should be a little off)

Kansas City 2-12 .485 vs Indy, @Denver
Jacksonville 2-12 .550 vs NE, @Tennessee
Philadelphia 4-10 .497 vs Washington, @NYG
Oakland 4-10 .497 @Carolina, @San Diego
Detroit 4-10 .556 vs Atlanta, vs Chicago
Tennessee 4-9 .550 vs NYJ, @Green Bay, vs Jacksonville

and we have Atlanta and Chicago left...

I'm praying for the top two to stupidly reach for Geno and Barkley. Philly could go oline or DE and then Oakland can take Star.

noondog
12-17-2012, 08:57 AM
I don't know much about anybody yet.. but so far I'm thinking Sam Montgomery might be a good one for us. Xavier Rhodes intrigues me.

I mainly judge players based on their size and name. Some guys just don't have the name of a good player. For example, Bjoern Werner does not sound like a good player name. I will pass on him.

and yes, I am aware that this means we'll be drafting Bjoern Werner.

His name makes me laugh because it starts with a "BJ". :facepalm:

Milliner is my #1 choice right now, followed closely by Te'o. We need leadership, and I think Te'o would bring that in spades.

detroit4life
12-17-2012, 05:50 PM
Ok well we are now looking at drafting at the 5 spot. With ATL and CHI it is a good chance we could end up top 3.

With that said, If we are in a position to draft Joeckel do we have to do it? I know it once again ignores our greatest needs. But it also solidifies our Oline with a future LT and RT.

Allows us to cut backus and gosder or move backus to OG (doubtful).

Not saying I like this idea. It is just a very interesting situation considering Mayhew's known to go BPA and he would have to intrigued at grabbing an elite LT prospect.

WMD
12-17-2012, 06:12 PM
If someone would've told me we were picking in the Top 5 before the season started, I would have stabbed their face off. I knew it was gonna be a tough schedule and expected a little bit of a down year but still.. This season has been a huge mess. Calvin being on the verge of breaking Jerry Rice's record just doesn't even feel that special with the season we're having.

WMD
12-17-2012, 08:34 PM
Ok well we are now looking at drafting at the 5 spot. With ATL and CHI it is a good chance we could end up top 3.

With that said, If we are in a position to draft Joeckel do we have to do it? I know it once again ignores our greatest needs. But it also solidifies our Oline with a future LT and RT.

Allows us to cut backus and gosder or move backus to OG (doubtful).

Not saying I like this idea. It is just a very interesting situation considering Mayhew's known to go BPA and he would have to intrigued at grabbing an elite LT prospect.
Yeah, it'd be tough to pass up the best OT prospect. We could have Joeckel and Reiff at the OT spots for hopefully the next 10+ years. But it ignores our Defensive needs which are just all over the place..

There's no way we can be this bad next year, so maybe Mayhew will offer up our 2014 Round 1 pick for a Round 1 pick this year, probably in the 20's somewhere, and target Defense or a Guard/Center with that pick and our 2nd Rounder. I don't know, maybe something like:

1. OT Luke Joeckel
1. OG/C Barrett Jones / OT/G DJ Fluker / DE Ezekiel Ansah / DE Sam Montgomery / ???
2. CB Xavier Rhodes / S Eric Reid / ???

I don't know... maybe we could go for Milliner and address OL and stuff later.. who knows.. but it's only 4 months away, we gotta start planning!

Prowler
12-17-2012, 10:40 PM
Picking top 5 is where we should ignore all need. Its a future shaping pick. The talent is at DE, LBer, and potentially LT. If we net a top flight pass rusher, left tackle of the future, or a true game and culture changer on defense with that first pick then we take it. I do want to see how Joeckel stacks up to previous LTs, but if he's truly the next Joe Thomas, then let's do it.

As for our secondary...I think Dee is in play, but I don't know why we'd put a giant emphasis on it now when they've never done that in the past. Also, our guys will be smarter and the game will slow down for our 3 rookies next year. We need Houston back, but I think a full offseason program and a year of experience should allow for some growth. I think an impact safety is much more of a need. We can't rely on Delmas to do everything and he's breaking down.

1st round:
Joeckel/Jones/Moore/Te'o/Mingo
2nd round:
Reid/Next available safety/Rhodes/Amerson/Trufant/Zach Ertz because Pettigrew pisses me off
3rd round:
Travis Frederick G/C Wisconsin

Prowler
12-18-2012, 11:42 AM
actually...finally checking thenetrat again...I think the easiest solution to our problem is the 'get rid of Avril' option. If we clear his 10.6 million, then we can give Houston 3m, resign Durant and Levy for 4, have a couple million for escalations in Stafford, Calvin, and Suh's contracts. We would still have our starting offensive line with Reiff essentially replacing Cherilus(but probably playing left) and anybody else that we want to cut or lose is pretty replaceable. Not bringing back Corey Williams and resigning SLH just makes things easier. We can keep Burleson if he looks like he'll recover just fine and we can trade Titus to anyone else for pretty much anything. I'd take a 6th rounder.

Draft a top flight DE, safety, C/G, Right Tackle, and another WR.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-18-2012, 03:54 PM
actually...finally checking thenetrat again...I think the easiest solution to our problem is the 'get rid of Avril' option. If we clear his 10.6 million, then we can give Houston 3m, resign Durant and Levy for 4, have a couple million for escalations in Stafford, Calvin, and Suh's contracts. We would still have our starting offensive line with Reiff essentially replacing Cherilus(but probably playing left) and anybody else that we want to cut or lose is pretty replaceable. Not bringing back Corey Williams and resigning SLH just makes things easier. We can keep Burleson if he looks like he'll recover just fine and we can trade Titus to anyone else for pretty much anything. I'd take a 6th rounder.

Draft a top flight DE, safety, C/G, Right Tackle, and another WR.

They'll have 20-25 million with cap casualties of KVB, Burleson and maybe Raiola or Peterman and let Avril and Corey Williams walk. Unless there is some bonus escalation based on performance. Calvin for example breaking the yardage record.
If they can bring back Burleson after cutting him I say go for it but depends on his injury and Broyles injury. Plenty of money to bring back Houston and Delmas, Lee-Hill and possibly both starting OLBs with 20 million.

Gosder they can either cut Backus for a cap casualty to save money for Gosder money and re-sign Gosder with that money or let Gosder walk and roll with Reiff and Backus for a year at tackle.

Avril all depends on how much he wants.
Lacey/Florence I let walk and roll with Bentley, Green and Greenwood with Houston and hopefully a draft CB.

Decisioin needs to be made on Hanson who is a free agent.

Some backups too like Ashlee Palmer, Lawrence Jackson, Corey Hilliard restricted free agency for Willie Young, Jason Fox and Amari Spievey.

Trading Young and what to do with Bests contract.

Going to be an interesting offseason at least.

Prowler
12-19-2012, 02:41 PM
The only thing that sucks is that Avril will want too much. Even if he ignores Mario Williams and Charles Johnson's contracts, he'll eye Calais Campbell's 5 yr 55 million and want 5/60. We're overpaying him a touch right now at 10.6, so I'm not a big fan of guaranteeing him more.

Which means, we'll have to draft a DE, Safety help (or Vet? Trade for Titus?), and more interior oline help. I like Travis Frederick from Wisconsin to replace Peterman and eventually take over for Raiola. They can hopefully draft him in the 3rd and use him like they've used Reiff. Frederick is a little big, but we won't be so soft up the middle with him there.

It sucks, because I want safety help to pair with Delmas...but Xavier Rhodes, Amerson, Trufant, etc would be nice to have. Maybe Shawn Williams or Phillip Thomas later can make up for not drafting Reid in the 2nd.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-19-2012, 03:48 PM
I'm afraid of Houston's demands too. The Lions don't get any better just replacing Houston with a rookie talented corner via the draft.

Interesting they signed Ron Bartell to a 2 year deal. Florence and Lacey are gone.

detroit4life
12-19-2012, 03:55 PM
1: DE- Damontre Moore
2: S- David Amerson or Eric Reid
3: OG-Travis Frederick

Use the money we save by letting Avril walk on a CB, I'd love to see us get a guy like Sean Smith or Brent Grimes

Vastly Improved Secondary, Interior Oline help, and a young DE to replace Avril who I think is the best DE in the draft.

Prowler
12-19-2012, 04:03 PM
I like Smith and Grimes. I want the man press guys. If we wanted to...its 5 years too late, but Aso could be cut by the Eagles after they get rid of Andy Reid.

detroit4life
12-19-2012, 04:20 PM
I like Smith and Grimes. I want the man press guys. If we wanted to...its 5 years too late, but Aso could be cut by the Eagles after they get rid of Andy Reid.

Yeah good point. I definitely think he will be cut. He would make as a great pick up too.

I agree with the man press guys. With the DLine we have man press guys would make our defense very good.

The way this draft is shaking up it seems like we are better off drafting a DE early and signing a veteran CB with the money we would be giving to Avril.

weasel
12-20-2012, 11:11 AM
DaMontre Moore or T'eo or Joekel. That's where they go.
Really Joekel, or Lewan and Barrett Jones in the first two rounds and maybe Stafford can start working on his mechanics/footwork with a real QB coach.., bye Linehan.
If they go Moore or T'eo they re-work DE with Moore in the first or T'eo then Ansah. Write off Cliff and his 12 million+.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-20-2012, 12:02 PM
1: DE- Damontre Moore
2: S- David Amerson or Eric Reid
3: OG-Travis Frederick

Use the money we save by letting Avril walk on a CB, I'd love to see us get a guy like Sean Smith or Brent Grimes

Vastly Improved Secondary, Interior Oline help, and a young DE to replace Avril who I think is the best DE in the draft.

I agree I think that would be the perfect offseason but I just don't see us getting Houston back and another high priced corner. Avril off the books gives us 10.6 million but Stafford and Suh's cap number will raise about 10 million and 7 million respectively with not much wiggle room with a new deal for each them due to the restructures they have made with allocated signing bonuses.

weasel
12-22-2012, 05:30 AM
There are significant savings to be had in Jeff Backus 7.5M, Dom Raiola 4.5M,
Nate Burleson, 2.5 M, Gosder Cherilous 3M, Titus salary?, Kevin Jones salary, cut out the 12.5+M for Avril, 5M for Vandenbosch... Say they draft Joekel or Lewan and get Barrett Jones for center. They drop 15 million in salary and pick up 5 or 6M for a bonus of 9+M. OL is fixed for ten years with Rieff at RT, Lewan(or the guy from CMU) at LT and Jones at C/G.
That is just an example. I'm not advocating that position but I could see it as a way to go esp, if they trade down and get an extra 2nd rd. draft pick to bolster the defense.

detroit4life
12-23-2012, 12:14 AM
There are significant savings to be had in Jeff Backus 7.5M, Dom Raiola 4.5M,
Nate Burleson, 2.5 M, Gosder Cherilous 3M, Titus salary?, Kevin Jones salary, cut out the 12.5+M for Avril, 5M for Vandenbosch... Say they draft Joekel or Lewan and get Barrett Jones for center. They drop 15 million in salary and pick up 5 or 6M for a bonus of 9+M. OL is fixed for ten years with Rieff at RT, Lewan(or the guy from CMU) at LT and Jones at C/G.
That is just an example. I'm not advocating that position but I could see it as a way to go esp, if they trade down and get an extra 2nd rd. draft pick to bolster the defense.

I agree, there are definitely a lot of cuts that can be made to clear up some space. I doubt Raiola is cut this year but all the others are very likely to happen IMO, along with corey williams who is a 5 M cap hit as well.

I am not sure what type of jumps stafford and suh will get but that will be the big determination in how much room we will have.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-26-2012, 12:00 PM
So I totaled the sacks hits and hurries for the Lions for the DEs and DTS and compared to 2011.

DE sacks were down 11 compared to 2011, hits were up 2 for DEs and hurries were 50 less than 2011. I think that 50 less has something to do with a lack of turnovers.

DT sacks up 6, hits up 18 compared to 2011 and hurries were down 7 compared to 2011. DT is just fine with Fairley and Suh rushing the passer. Both having top 5 years for DTs. Suh is 2nd and Fairley is 5th in the league.

Also blitz sacks were down 4 compared to 2011 (6 to 2).

57 less hurries is the reason we have 17 less turnovers on top of the 3 strip sacks that the Lions didn't recover this time. Avril had 6 on his own last year. KVB had one at least.

If they don't draft a DE, they are in trouble.

Prowler
12-26-2012, 12:17 PM
Avril's 20something tackles every year just isn't cutting it either. I'm in love with Damontre Moore. He's a freak and might as well be renamed Von Miller.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-26-2012, 01:18 PM
Avril's 20something tackles every year just isn't cutting it either. I'm in love with Damontre Moore. He's a freak and might as well be renamed Von Miller.

Avril and KVB were already bad in run defense but they actually got worse compared to 2012. Willie Young got much worse too. Lawrence Jackson actually does a good job in run defense. Bring him back on the cheap just for that as a backup. Suh got a little worse in run d which isn't good but continue to be a beast pass rusher and SLH got a signifcant worse compared to 2011 in run defense. Missing Corey may have hurt the run D some even though Fairley beasted. Fairley was good in run D in 2011 and did great this year in run defense and pass rush. Fairley is the man, all around good DT.

Levy got worse in run D and is average in coverage, Tulloch got worse by a good amount too but did well in coverage. Durant got better in run defense but is a liability in coverage.

Keep Durant and let Levy walk. Hope Tulloch rebounds to 2011 form and gets more help in front of him especially at DE. Hope the three rookie CBs grow too. Green did average this year(actually better than Bentley) but I didn't like what I saw against the Falcons from Green on the Falcons TD drive. He got beat for at least 3 of the 5 Ryan throws for first downs. Lacey was average this year, Houston was very good except for the Falcon game. We need to bring Houston and Delmas back but get Delmas insurance with another safety. Don Carey actually has the best coverage grade of all the secondary in more limited action.

Prowler
12-26-2012, 01:28 PM
Walter football gave us the best mock that I've seen. Damontre Moore, Barrett Jones, and Desmond Trufant. A+ mock based on talent and need.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-26-2012, 01:35 PM
Walter football gave us the best mock that I've seen. Damontre Moore, Barrett Jones, and Desmond Trufant. A+ mock based on talent and need.

I would absolutely love that draft too. I could see Jones and Trufant rising though so they won't be an option early 2nd and early 3rd for Detroit. One can dream though.

DE, stud safety and interior Oline is my big dream though. Re-sign Houston, Delmas, Jackson, SLH(still has upside) and Durant(for run defense).

Avril walking is risky but I just can't take the inconsistency despite a good 2011. KVB,Burelson cap cuts. Levy and Corey Williams walks. Maybe one of Peterman or Raiola cap cut. Gosder depends on if Backus retires or what they do there. But I think I want Gosder to walk too and go with Reiff and Backus for a year. Gosder just isn't the run blocker we need.

Prowler
12-26-2012, 05:13 PM
So...what do we think about Joeckel, Taylor Lewan, or other prospects? I'll put my thoughts into the quick one round grade shorthand with only one prospect for each sub-grade...

A type draft

A+ Damontre Moore: I think he's the best potential DE. I hope he declares.
A Luke Joeckel: Somewhere between Joe Thomas and other elite LTs is what I've been hearing. He's kept Jake Mathews on the right side. I'm willing to live with having a dominant set of tackles who can switch with each other and keep Stafford protected.
A- Jarvis Jones: Impact player on defense and undisputed talent level. Free agents and a decline in our LB corp plus his ability to potentially convert to DE or play multiple positions should be a plus.

B solid draft

B+ Dee Milliner: Take the top ranked corner and stop worrying about our outside pass coverage. Not a bad way to go.
B Manti Te'o: A new leader on defense who can work his way up and alongside/through Tulloch.
B- Bjoern Werner: Hardworker, strong attacker who can make our dline even more bully-ish.

C curveball but whatever draft

C+ Taylor Lewan: I love the stability and investing in Oline, but would have to show he can be a LT to merit a top pick. We blew a 1st rounder on Gosder and RTs do not deserve that pick.
C Star Lotulelei: F'ing Overkill, but he's great. 5-2 defense? He should be a D or an F grade, but the sheer novelty and talent keep him in the curveball C bracket. All-Time great DT rotation. Centers and guards wouldn't sleep at nights.
C- Chance Warmack: lol@guard top 5. new salary cap eases things...still probably really dumb. The so called, "Best olineman in the country" had better be that for us to take him.

D terrible value and reach draft

D+ Barkevious Mingo: Not as bad as grade reflects, but still had some better options. Can switch places with other DEs depending on combine, offseason, and bowl performances. He's only down here because his stock has fallen.
D Kenny Vaccaro: He better run a 4.3 40 and be Eric Berry for top 5.
D- Alex Ogletree: I love him...but linebacking position is like RB. He had better be Patrick Willis to take here.

F Millen is back draft

Zach Ertz: I wouldn't argue too loudly if we took him in the 2nd. We run a 2 TE offense and could use someone who wouldn't cost us multiple games and can hold on to the ball. There is a reason why us and New England are at the top of total offense.
Justin Hunter: Not arguing against an impact receiver, but he looks like more of a project and I'd rather have some more polish here.
Keenan Allen: I like him, but maybe we should protect Stafford or try and play defense.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-26-2012, 06:33 PM
So...what do we think about Joeckel, Taylor Lewan, or other prospects? I'll put my thoughts into the quick one round grade shorthand with only one prospect for each sub-grade...

A type draft

A+ Damontre Moore: I think he's the best potential DE. I hope he declares.
A Luke Joeckel: Somewhere between Joe Thomas and other elite LTs is what I've been hearing. He's kept Jake Mathews on the right side. I'm willing to live with having a dominant set of tackles who can switch with each other and keep Stafford protected.
A- Jarvis Jones: Impact player on defense and undisputed talent level. Free agents and a decline in our LB corp plus his ability to potentially convert to DE or play multiple positions should be a plus.

B solid draft

B+ Dee Milliner: Take the top ranked corner and stop worrying about our outside pass coverage. Not a bad way to go.
B Manti Te'o: A new leader on defense who can work his way up and alongside/through Tulloch.
B- Bjoern Werner: Hardworker, strong attacker who can make our dline even more bully-ish.

C curveball but whatever draft

C+ Taylor Lewan: I love the stability and investing in Oline, but would have to show he can be a LT to merit a top pick. We blew a 1st rounder on Gosder and RTs do not deserve that pick.
C Star Lotulelei: F'ing Overkill, but he's great. 5-2 defense? He should be a D or an F grade, but the sheer novelty and talent keep him in the curveball C bracket. All-Time great DT rotation. Centers and guards wouldn't sleep at nights.
C- Chance Warmack: lol@guard top 5. new salary cap eases things...still probably really dumb. The so called, "Best olineman in the country" had better be that for us to take him.

D terrible value and reach draft

D+ Barkevious Mingo: Not as bad as grade reflects, but still had some better options. Can switch places with other DEs depending on combine, offseason, and bowl performances. He's only down here because his stock has fallen.
D Kenny Vaccaro: He better run a 4.3 40 and be Eric Berry for top 5.
D- Alex Ogletree: I love him...but linebacking position is like RB. He had better be Patrick Willis to take here.

F Millen is back draft

Zach Ertz: I wouldn't argue too loudly if we took him in the 2nd. We run a 2 TE offense and could use someone who wouldn't cost us multiple games and can hold on to the ball. There is a reason why us and New England are at the top of total offense.
Justin Hunter: Not arguing against an impact receiver, but he looks like more of a project and I'd rather have some more polish here.
Keenan Allen: I like him, but maybe we should protect Stafford or try and play defense.

Agreed on all grades. If we are the 6th-9th pick though those Bs and Cs and Ds become more of a reality. I hope QBs go very early but it doesn't seem like a QB year.

I could live with a stud Joeckel at LT and Reiff at RT for 10 plus years. Keep Stafford upright and much better run blocking off tackle would be real nice.

I really want a DE bad. 60 less hurries than last year, many less strip sacks and many less ints due to opposing QB having more time.

Teo I just can't see him on the outside. Are there any other stud OLBs that are athletic that can cover and play the run well. I see Levy walking in FA.

Prowler
12-26-2012, 07:04 PM
Damontre has 80 tackles, 20 tfl, 12.5 sacks, and 2 blocked kicks.

Gerald Hodges from Penn State should be solid in the late 2nd-4th rounds.
Kenny Tate is worth a late look as a nickel package coverage linebacker.
I don't really see anyone that is a substantial upgrade over Ashlee Palmer unless we go early with the pick.

detroit4life
12-27-2012, 11:54 AM
I love Moore too. Agree with everything that was said. A Dline on Suh, Fairley, Moore is just downright scary.

Joeckel will work well for the future, no reason to have to explain why. My belief on Lewan is that after this bowl game (where I expect Clowney to dominate him) he will fall out of the 1st round.

Jarvis Jones scares me with his health. Not a fan really and I do not think he fits our team or philosophy. Schwartz's plan on defense is to rush 4, so a pass rushing OLB doesn't thrill me unless we change our approach.

In the second round I want to address our secondary. There should be a handful of guys there at our pick: Rhodes, Reid, Amerson, etc

After that I hope we take some young Olinemen and Wrs. Need value after this, hopefully a future replacement at OG, C, and a slot reciever (again I know)

weasel
12-28-2012, 10:01 AM
I really like Jarvis Jones but we have to look at his injury history.

Prowler
12-28-2012, 05:31 PM
Gunther is an old guru and can adapt to Jarvis Jones. I remember the first season of the new coaching staff when we blitzed over half of the time. We have better personnel and if we add some secondary help then it could be the change that we desperately need.

I'm not a wide9 fan though. Our DTs are good enough to collapse the pocket every play that I would prefer to only have one DE lineup wide and move the pocket to one side so we can dictate having the QB throw it into heavy coverage or have to throw across the field.

ex. just line Avril up wide and have the other DE as more of a base. Avril's wide technique can force the QB to the right and we can have a heavier zone on that side of the field to limit the QB's options. It cuts the field in half and limits the QB's options, but I'm not a defensive coordinator...

weasel
12-29-2012, 07:36 AM
I am sure Avril and his 12.5 million are gone.
KVB and his money are gone and that leaves a gaping hole at DE
Chris Houston is going to demand bank and if we cannot fit him in there we might be looking at Greenwood, Green and Bentley.
Cherilous and Backus are expensive options which need review. Gosder is a throw away in my opinion, easy to replace, but Backus is nearing the end and very expensive.
That is 5-6 positions which will determine the direction we go. Some will be resolved before we draft.
Delmas is probably a re-sign, Levy and the rest of the defensive back seven are all up for new contracts , too. Yikes,

boknows34
12-29-2012, 02:24 PM
Not to mention Stafford and Suh see their cap value jump from approx $15.5m to $37.5m next season.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-29-2012, 06:55 PM
I am sure Avril and his 12.5 million are gone.
KVB and his money are gone and that leaves a gaping hole at DE
Chris Houston is going to demand bank and if we cannot fit him in there we might be looking at Greenwood, Green and Bentley.
Cherilous and Backus are expensive options which need review. Gosder is a throw away in my opinion, easy to replace, but Backus is nearing the end and very expensive.
That is 5-6 positions which will determine the direction we go. Some will be resolved before we draft.
Delmas is probably a re-sign, Levy and the rest of the defensive back seven are all up for new contracts , too. Yikes,

Avrils 10.6 number. But yeah Avril lowered his value this year but he'll probably hit the open market. You never know Tulloch and Houston hit the open market and they both came back.

KVB was junk this year. He served a purpose but he's addition by subtraction.

I am worried about Houston given the corner market next year. He must be priority number 1 though because just drafting a rookie CB in Round 1 to replace Houston does not make us better at all.

Backus and Gosder will be an interesting decision. I think I want Gosder to walk due to poor run blocking(it's important for RT), keep Backus for one more year and then get another right tackle after 2013 to pair with Reiff.

Delmas hopefully is back too. I wouldn't mind the franchise for him actually but a re-sign is probably better for the cap obviously. It's hard to determine his worth. The injuries drive his price down some but his agent know the Lions need him badly.

I think one of Levy and Durant will be back and either Whitehead, Palmer or Lewis will start next year. I prefer Durant back. Palmer is a free agent but he can be brought back cheap especially if he gets a chance to start. He'll jump at that.

Spievey concussions can let him walk, he's restricted if we really want him but maybe not even worth the 1.2 million tender. Lacey could come back cheap. Florence is gone. They signed Bartell to a 2 year deal to replace and get the three rookies back. Houston is the big one though that I'll be holding my breath on.

Sammie Lee Hill will be another interesting decision. See how much he is worth. Corey Williams probably walks. Hanson may retire, that is 3 million we can save right there with a rookie kicker. Fox is a restricted free agent, he probably gets the 1.2 million tender. Hilliard is a free agent, depends on Fox but he could be brought back cheap too.

Shaun Hill's salary jumps too but we need to keep him.

Prowler
12-29-2012, 09:34 PM
For Reference
2012 Salary Cap 120.6 Million
2013 Salary Cap 121 Million projected by the league office on 12/27 (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/12/27/3805450/2013-nfl-salary-cap-amount-steelers-space)

Lions Top Contract Hits for 2013

Name $2013($2012)
Stafford 20.32m(8.935m)
Suh 17.1725m(6.5625m)
Johnson 12.2m(11.5m)
KVB 10.68625m(4.611m) 3.68250m(save 7m) if cut against 2013 cap, and 1.01875 hits in 2014 and 2015 caps
Backus 7.9m (2.35m) final contract year
Burleson 6.531m (2.495705m) 2.031642 cap hits in 2013 & 2014 if cut
Raiola 6.125m (5.225m) final contract year 1.825m signing bonus for 2013
Jahvid Best 4.9285m (4.693m) 3.28m is a signing bonus in 2013 and 2014....not cuttable, hope he gets healthy
Tulloch 4.750m (2.5m)
Shaun Hill 3.25m(2.25m) final contract year
Peterman 2.915m (2.990m) final contract year
Nick Fairley 2.6965m (2.247m)
Tony Scheffler 2.45m (2.05m) final contract year
Pettigrew 2.420m (2.33625m) final contract year
Rob Sims 1.85m (1.5m)
Riley Reiff 1.815850m (1.4525m)
Drayton Florence 1.5m (1.5m) final contract year
Mike Thomas 1.45m (1.45m)
John Wendling 1.073333m (.908333m) final contract year
Broyles .836025m
Leshoure .822157m(.732157m)
Tyrell Johnson .715m (.7m) final contract year
Brian Robiskie .715m (.3075m) final contract year
Bill Bentley .617278m
Bill Nagy .555m
Tahir Whitehead .533m (.443m)
Chris Greenwood .528m
Jonte Green .504250m (.414250m)
Travis Lewis .494750m (.404750m)
Kellen Moore .481250m (.39125m)
Ronnell Lewis .480m

Titus Young 1.0075m .4525m cap hit 2013 and 2014 if cut

Total: 120,322,963m on like 30 people
Available Money: 677,037 to spend on like 40-50 guys(40x $600k= $24m)

Smart Cuts
KVB saves $7,003,750
Burleson saves $4,499,358
Titus Young saves $555,000 if cut and $1,007,500 if traded
Raiola saves $4,300,000
Jeff Backus I'm fuzzy on LTBE stuff, but his signing bonus is only 750k, which could save 7.15m
Total saved if Young traded and Backus only counting 750k is: $23,960,608

Free Agents 2012 cap hit
Cliff Avril 10.605m
Corey Williams 5.21875m
Chris Houston 4.625m
Gosder 4.620m
Justin Durant 3.625m
Jason Hanson 3.225m
DeAndre Levy 1.927m
Dylan Gandy 1.85m
Louis Delmas 1.747m
Corey Hilliard 1.26m
SLH 1.26m
Jacob Lacey 1.176m
Lawrence Jackson 1.015m
Titus Young 1.0075m
Nick Harris .925m
Kassim Osgood .890m
Stefan Logan .865m
Kevin Smith .605m
Will Heller .605m
Don Mulbach .605m
Ashlee Palmer .615m
Jason Fox .600302m RFA
Amari Spievey .570208m RFA
Joique Bell .54m RFA
Don Carey .54m
Willie Young .506m RFA
Ricardo Silva .465m RFA
Kris Durham .465m
Some prorated late pickups that I won't list

Source: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-30-2012, 10:39 AM
Cutting KVB and Burleson won't save that much in fact they will each be about 800K more as dead money than what they are on the books this year in 2012. They will be cut because if they are not cut their cap numbers are huge in 2013 so we are saving that money but that is money not on the books yet compared to the baseline starting point of the cap number right now. What you have to do is compare the dead cap money after the cut to their cap number in 2012. That is the true savings when making a cap cut.

For instance Burlesons dead money would be 3.1 million or so if cut(not a June cut). His cap number in 2012 is 2.3 million. So it costs the Lions 3.1 million towards the cap (800K more compared more compared to 2012 (3.1-2.3)). However if they don't cut Burleson his cap number is 6.074 million which is way too high. So therefore Burleson should be cut but it doesn't save us that much in new money for 2013 just future money.

Use this for the cap numbers

http://thenetrat.com/salarycap.html

Prowler
12-30-2012, 03:19 PM
that sounds even worse.

Come on Oakland.

boknows34
12-30-2012, 08:25 PM
5th overall pick.

Brodeur
12-30-2012, 10:47 PM
Bring on Bjoern Werner!

Prowler
12-30-2012, 11:28 PM
we can rename our place Fjord Field

Iamcanadian
12-30-2012, 11:47 PM
I'm hoping Te'o is still available at #5, he'd shore up our run defense considerably.

WMD
12-31-2012, 02:42 AM
Can we just take Jadeveon Clowney this year?

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-31-2012, 09:01 AM
So who may take a DE.

Jags unless they go QB, Raiders with their new competent GM. Eagles go Joeckel probably. KC probably not.

Iamcanadian
12-31-2012, 12:18 PM
The trouble is, there are no 4-3 DE's available in the top 10 picks, never mind top 5. Moore and Mingo look like 3-4 OLB's to me and aren't big enough to play any part in stopping the run. We aren't going to contend for a Super Bowl till we can stop the run and that's why I believe Te'o will be our pick. He will add a toughness to our defense which it totally lacks today. Sure, I'd like a solid DE or a CB but we are drafting too early to get value at those positions, IMO.

Te'o
9 Takeaways
7 interceptions
2 FF

Scotty D
12-31-2012, 01:11 PM
Yeah, but can he or Tulloch play OLB?

WMD
12-31-2012, 01:22 PM
I think Tulloch can.

Can we dump the Wide Nine next year please? That'd be the best way to help our Run D.

Iamcanadian
12-31-2012, 01:32 PM
I think Tulloch can.

Can we dump the Wide Nine next year please? That'd be the best way to help our Run D.

That's why I'm for firing Cunningham, his defensive scheme just doesn't work although Schwartz may also want that system in place.