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derza222
04-29-2012, 10:04 AM
Why not? Obviously the team didn't hit on a few needs, so there are a lot of potential positions that could get addressed early next year.

The big ones that stick out are OLB, RT, and S.

No OLB was drafted this year obviously. I think that's a sign they like Maybin, so hopefully he steps up this year and does a little more than just bending the edge on third downs. Don't see Pace or Thomas staying past this year, so even if he does it's a need and if not it's a huge, huge need. Hopefully Coples improves the pass rush, but it's going to need to come from that spot too. Will be interesting to see what happens there. I think actually a relatively important factor in whether or not that gets drafted early is the team's success next year. Since it seems like they're going to hold onto the QB's as is for a bit, if the team is terrible and drafts high they might be in position to get a legit edge rusher. They seem very picky about it and don't want to reach on a guy just because it's a need if they don't like the fit, which I kind of like, but eventually it does need to get addressed. Next year's class looks good too, but as we all know that can definitely change quickly.

Obviously RT was one of the weakest spots on the team last year, and again it didn't really get addressed in the draft. Griffin seems like he has RT size but not RT feet, so it appears that he'll preferably stay in at guard and Hunter, Ducasse, and Howard will compete for the starting spot. Needless to say, the team is in trouble unless somebody steps up there. It appears that the team likes Howard and feels the need to give Ducasse a shot. Hopefully with a full offseason program for both young guys and a scheme that may fit them better as it's less complicated, one of them can find success and step up. If not, which unfortunately seems likely, after two years of ignoring it I think it has to get shored up. Shouldn't be too hard, signing somebody in free agency or spending a day 2 pick on a player who can be a solid starter, but it's tough for them to continue ignoring it.

Safety's an interesting spot because we're going to see a lot of turnover this year. Obviously Landry is coming in, and obviously Landry has had issues staying healthy. I think most Jets fans would like to see Eric Smith replaced as well given he really struggles in coverage, and a Landry-Smith duo seems like it would easily get exploited. I'm personally curious to see whether or not they bring back Leonhard, because that with mean three veterans (Landry, Leonhard, Smith), two rookies (Bush, Allen), and a second year guy who entered the supplemental draft and they carried on the practice squad and eventually the roster last year (Tracy Wilson). I think they like Wilson and he'll get the same opportunities that Bush and Allen do. I also think they may need to keep 5 safeties with Landry's health issues, and they can probably justify that by using the younger guys on specials and in sub packages. Regardless, Landry's on a one year deal and he can't be franchised plus he's likely to get hurt, Smith probably/hopefully isn't a long term starter and may not be around much longer, and we've got 3 essentially young unproven guys. Hopefully some of the younger guys stick and they seem like they could complement each other well, and I do think that Ryan's scheme asks things from safeties but it's not necessarily a priority. This could go in any number of directions, but it seems likely that we don't have two clear cut starters heading into next year. Similar situation to RT, I think both are better than OLB but quite shaky.

The three sleeper positions that could be somewhat significant needs are TE, CB and RB.

At TE Keller's in a contract year, and Cumberland is a really interesting guy but hasn't really proven anything. There's questions about how well Keller fit's Sparano's system given he doesn't block that well, and I know they started talks on a contract extension but nothing's solidified yet. I don't think it'd be a huge priority position since I think Sparano's looking more for ideally a Jason Witten type and probably a poor man's version of him but not a field stretcher you invest a high draft pick in, but there's potentially a need for a starter there.

At CB there's a lot invested but depth behind the top 3 is pretty bad right now, Revis is threatening to hold out again, and Ryan loves corners. It's something I could definitely see getting addressed early and being a big time priority position if things break the wrong way.

And RB's a pretty important one too. We all know they really liked Trent Richardson this year. Shonn Greene and Joe McKnight haven't proven anything beyond the fact that they're average NFL players who should be solid backups, Bilal Powell hasn't proved he belongs in the NFL, and Ganaway's a rookie. I think Greene's mediocrity was definitely partially to blame for the team's lack of success last year, and could certainly be upgraded if nobody steps up (which seems likely). For a run-first team I get having a big stable of backs, but they need to be able to run the ball successfully. If they continue to refuse to put together a dominant offensive line, then they need a dominant back. Otherwise I'm not sure how the "ground and pound" offense is supposed to be successful.

Other than that I think the other positions probably aren't going to get looked at very seriously.

At DE obviously Coples and Wilkerson were high draft picks, there's some UDFA depth that they like there, DeVito, Pitoitua, and Dixon are all solid and they like adding other UDFA depth to that spot. Don't see it getting a serious look.

Then at NT Pouha should be around, Ellis is waiting in the wings and looked solid in limited time, and Tevaseu is a pretty solid player in his own right.

The ILB spot looks good with Harris-Scott right now, Harris-Davis if Scott plays terribly this year and hopefully long term, Mauga as solid depth and the UDFA Dowtin as an interesting depth project.

At QB I think financially they're kind of stuck with Sanchbow for a little while, although if both suck next year I'd be open to adding another one. But they won't, so I think it's moot.

Wide receiver could become an issue, but I'm not sure it's a priority position and hopefully it's in decent shape. I don't really see Schilens being here beyond this year, because if he starts and explodes he'll move on for a big contract elsewhere and if he's bad then he won't be brought back. Turner's a decent depth guy and probably has a better shot to compete than most give him credit for. Love Kerley as a slot guy, think he'll stick there long term, and White's interesting there as well. It essentially boils down to Holmes and Hill, but I don't think they draft a guy unless both suck. Seems like Holmes will be here for better or for worse, and they're not going to draft someone to replace their high upside rookie, they'll sign a veteran. So I don't think it's a major draft need, but could see it getting addressed in FA. Hopefully Holmes gets passes thrown his way and is happy and Hill has a Torrey Smith-ish (if maybe a little worse) season and begins developing into a long-term starter. But if not, I still think it's a FA need not a draft need after taking Hill this year.

Guard I kicked around adding to the sleeper needs because Moore's a FA after this year and they're probably letting him go, but I think they're happy with Slauson, love Schlauderaff, and just drafted Griffin. They'll probably let Schlauderaff and Griffin compete for the job next year, maybe sign a vet for depth or draft a guy late, but I think they're happy with that spot.

Center as we were talking about in the 2012 draft thread would be nice to add some solid depth at, and maybe Griffin can be that guy, but not a serious need for a starter.

Fullback they'll address if Conner falls flat on his face next year, but again not a serious need worth mentioning up top. Wonder if Ganaway gets some looks there too.

Kicker and punter I'd be very open to upgrading and think we all would, but that's something that late picks get used on so I didn't feel like throwing it up top.

YotoJets007
04-29-2012, 11:06 AM
I know we should not waste our time figuring out what is the most pressed position that will be coveted for a first round pick. However, I like to add a quarterback because Sanchez and Tebow will enter the final season next year.

1. Wildcat quarterback is always plenty but Washington State quarterback Jeff Tuel should be looked at for late round pick up. He has all tools including arm strength and runner but he dealt with several serious injuries.

Geno Smith of West Virginia could be it since he has tools for both pocket and runner. The skipper Hog does not want him to run anywhere so his passing skill should be much better this year. He has a shot for the Heisman Trophy.



2. BPA at quarterback should begin with Tyler Wilson but the problem is I think all quarterbacks who served under either Petrino or Smith did not offer any good QB value for NFL longevity.

3. DE from Louisana State, Sam Montgomery, should be at least 1st round check out prospect for a package OLB. Pace and Thomas may be gone after this year.


Thats a start from me.


RG and RT are always that plenty for mid-late rounders but I do hope Sparano's man is able to turn a raw OL and Hunter into a solid strongside OL.


S will be the last position to evaluate. Deunta Williams went UDFA. Iloka went 5th. Forget it.

derza222
04-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Entirely fair. Basically all we do on this site is speculate anyway though, so it's never really too early to start.

Just saw/remembered that Shonn Greene is a FA after the season. Given I don't expect him or anyone else to blow the lid off the league this season and he'll likely be gone, I'd imagine there's a good chance that position is targeted early since it's a major priority spot. But maybe we get lucky and somebody steps up, they've certainly used a lot of picks on the spot in the past.

YotoJets007
05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
I have tried to build the draft prospect ranking but it could send me to a mental hospital. *knocks on wood*

It is virtually impossible to complete draft ranking of my preference without a season underway.

Never hurt to start earlier, my foot. :cj:

SenorGato
05-28-2012, 06:13 PM
Jarvis Jones or some emerging pass rusher...Sam Montgomery is a player I really like.

YotoJets007
05-31-2012, 04:02 PM
No draft discussion for a month? lol.

YotoJets007
06-21-2012, 10:46 AM
Okay, I will start.


Jackson Jeffcoat from Texas? Is he top 10-15 talents?

I know a picture does not justify anything but his arms look short. I don't think he offers a good run defender. to be fair, Texas defense always shift players around so it is going to be difficult to identify prospects' actual talents. I may think that Alex Okafor is a well around player including run defender as he should be taken off the board before Jeffcoat.





For S part, Tony Jefferson, T.J. McDonald, Eric Reid, Matt Elam, Kenny Vaccaro, and Isaiah Johnson are on my list.

Jefferson out of Oklahoma, JR.- a true ball hawker with man cover skill. He may need to bulk up to handle NFL ballcarrier.

McDonald out of USC, SR.- Has been playing zone coverage with above average run support.

Reid out of LSU, JR.- Similar to McDonald but his talents remain unnoticed because of Claiborne, Taylor and Matteieu being on the field with Reid. He may not forgo his senior campaign unless his talents are unveiled by himself in 2012.

Elam out of Florida, JR.- I think I like him as SS better. His coverage is good but not enough for bigger range. Instinct and run defenders are too much to ignore.

Vaccaro out of Texas, SR.- Nobody dares to challenge at his side. He is a well around FS but does not make any thunderous play. I am not going to campaign for him to be a Jet but I will keep eyes on him. He can be a good steal in 3rd or 4th round depending how progressing the season and scouting will be.

Johnson out of Georgia Tech, JR- He has untapped talents to be a solid either S and he plays under Al Groh. Problem is GT has too many players to compete for secondary jobs. If he plays a lot this year and impresses enough numbers of scouts then he can be a solid 4th rounder.


Keep it in mind, I did not watch all of them play. I just picked up words throughout internet to set up the wish list for me to watch those players or you to chime in with your knowledge.

YotoJets007
08-16-2012, 11:09 AM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3090984#post3090984

I have Jets taking Te'o in the 1st round, Rambo in 2nd and Renfree in 3rd.

Te'o has an abundant of experiences in both 4-3 and 4-3 schemes. He can blitz or pass rush from anywhere as LB. He is big enough to play standing up OLB and has enough speed to play SAM or Will in 4-3. No brainer pick I believe.

Rambo can cover TE and RB well to upgrade the S talent. I am not sure Landry or Bell will stay with us for another 2 years after this season. It does not matter because adding talents to the safety depth chart will always be appreciated.

Renfree has a good package as a prolific passer. He improves in decision making under David Cutcliffe. The pick should create a shock for Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow because both Sanchez and Tebow are not committed to a long term as a Jet, yet. Both deserve a serious push from Renfree. Just because he is a Blue Devil does not mean he is not worth anywhere higher than 4th round.

RT replacement is on hold because I am not ready to call OL impotent. Austin Howard tended to have a good first impression but after that, he is nobody. Hunter can be a good service at RT under Sparano as OL coach has been protecting Hunter. Matt Slauson could be a full time RT next year, meaning G becomes primarily with Brandon Moore potentially electing for FA.

what do you guys think?

derza222
08-16-2012, 11:14 PM
As of right now, I have no idea whether or not the Jets are going to be playing 4-3 or 3-4. That said, I don't like Te'o as a 3-4 OLB, and the Jets have no need for a 3-4 ILB with Harris and Davis, at least at this point. And I think the major perk to moving to the 4-3 is there would be no need to add anything particularly significant (or draft any position early) except maybe a DE since you can get really talented 4-3 OLB's in rounds 2 or 3 and I presume you'd see Davis at WLB and Harris at MLB, both of whom would play most downs so you're looking for a guy who's basically going to be in on early downs and could easily be found in round 3 or 4 or as a mediocre FA. All of that said, regardless of scheme I'm not huge on Te'o.

Rambo I could see. I think realistically the team doesn't put a huge premium on the safety spot and is developing Allen and Bush to start next year. Both have played well in camp, they complement each other very well and I think both fit the scheme. But it's still a question mark so I can't knock it.

As for QB, I think that's a position that if the Jets are drafting where you have them they don't need to add another. If they have a worse record I'd have no problem addressing it in round 1. You're kind of unlikely to find a worthwhile player in another round though so I'd rather either see them burn a pick on a first rounder or a late round backup time. Seems like a waste of a third to me, but that's just my personal opinion.

Major need spots would include RB (I think the group of RB's is terrible for a run first offense, can only hope Powell or McKnight emerges as a legitimate option heading into next year), OL (pretty much anywhere, with Slauson and Moore as FA's guard works and RT is obviously a huge question mark), TE (Keller's gone, don't see it as a first round need but maybe day 2 or early day 3), DE as I mentioned, and then the positions you drafted. That's my take.

YotoJets007
08-17-2012, 02:40 PM
If Sparano system was not working then I would scream for new regime. However, Super Bowl will be held in New Meadowland Stadium for 2013 championship season (Feb. 2 2104) so I am pretty sure Jets want to stay contending for an obvious goal.

If Jets can't run anywhere then G will be vastly revamped. Jets could either draft G in both 1st and 2nd rounds or pay a lot of money to get 2 Gs (unlikely). 2 Guards and TE Fauria in first 3 rounds are my kind of jumpstart.


SAM is one of the easiest positions to fill in, I agree. When I had him going to Jets in the first round I thought he was at least 6 3 255. It looks like he is merely 6 1 250 or lighter now. He would upgrade to either Davis or Harris for 3-4 ILB so it is a mistake on my part. Size is the reason I picked Te'o over Porter who will pay OLB in 4-3 for Sumlin and Jarvis.

YotoJets007
08-21-2012, 02:22 PM
I have been focusing ponderously on a quick fix until I saw one comment somewhere in the internet about Jets picking Coples over DeCastro even though Jets owned one of the worst OL in NFL last year. Defense suffered a "down" season but it was still above average.

If Jets actually drafted for future then I should change the draft strategy. I reviewed the 2013 and 2014 potential free agents and few potential cuts in either year on the nyjetscap site. I believe that 2014 is the best time to trim down the roster. That could mean Jets ride it out hard this year and next year with veterans. 2013 draft may be an essence to bolster 2 teams (1st and 2nd stringers) if Jets actually cut several key players in 2014.

Since I could not foresee who will be cut in 2014, I focus on potential unrestricted free agents because if you fill out those contingent positions for upcoming free agent departures then the draft needs for 2014 will be fewer.

I know it is frivolous to count on late round draftees or undrafted prospects to replace starters in near future but it is Jets' job to develop those young players into at least solid 2nd stringers. Right now, Jets have only one team on the squad and most of the rest is worth 3rd stringer or worse. For me, I think Jeff Cumberland, Bilal Powell and Caleb Schlauderff are worthy of 2nd stringers. Look at those upcoming free agents and potential replacements and tell us what do you think to adjust the 2013 draft priority for any picks prior to 5th round.


2013 Free Agents and Internal Options:

Brandon Moore. = Robert T. Griffin
Dustin Keller. = Jeff Cumberland (RFA).
Mike DeVito. = Quinton Coples.
Shonn Greene. = Bilal Powell.
Matt Slauson. = Caleb Schlauderff.
Aaron Maybin. = Ricky Sapp (RFA).
Laron Landry. = Josh Bush.
Yeremiah Bell. = Antonio Allen.
Bryan Thomas. = Garrett McIntyre.
Chaz Schilens. = Stephen Hill.

Tanner Purdum RFA.
Marcus Dixon RFA.
Joshua Mauga RFA.
Austin Howard RFA or UFA.

2014 Free Agents:

Calvin Pace.
Joe McKngiht.
Eric Vladimir Ducasse.
John Connor.
Smith.

Nick Bellore RFA.
Garrett McIntrye RFA or UFA.
TJ Conley RFA.


Best savings by cutting players will come up next week.

YotoJets007
08-21-2012, 07:27 PM
Get over with it.


I merely list all savings of over 1mm per potential cut player.

I don't have any concrete information for trading player because nobody ever knows until a trade is actually imminent. Sorry.

This lists may be inaccurate due to a potential holdout, restructure, contractual language, etc but it is an excellent basic (nyjetscap) to figure out the future. I add the 2015 list because 2013 late round draftees could be groomed into starter for cheaper.


Remember it is totally unbiased. Highest to Lowest saving sort.

2013 Sufficient Saving if Cut-

Jason Smith: 12mm saving out of 12mm.
Calvin Pace: 8.56mm saving out of 11.57mm.
Bart Scott: 7.15mm saving out of 8.65mm.
David Harris: 4mm saving out of 13mm.
Sione Pouha: 3.83mm saving out of 6.17mm.
Eric Smith: 3mm saving out of 3mm.
Antonio Cromartie: 1.25mm saving out of 10.75mm.
Tim Tebow: 1.05mm saving out of 2.194mm.

2014 Sufficient Saving if Cut-


Antonie Cromartie: 9.5mm saving out of 10.75mm.
Mark Sanchez: 8.3mm saving out of 13.1mm.
Santonio Holmes: 8.25mm saving out of 10.75mm.
Bart Scott: 8mm out of 8mm.
Sione Pouha: 5.5mm saving out of 6.67mm.
David Harris: 5mm saving out of 7mm.
D'Brickashaw Ferguson: 2.55mm saving out of 10.42mm.
Muhammad Wilkerson: 1.31mm saving out of 2.19mm.
Kyle Wilson: 1.17mm saving out of 2.26mm.


2015 Sufficient Saving if Cut-

Mark Sanchez: 12.4mm saving out of 15.6mm.
Santonio Holmes: 8mm saving out of 9.25mm.
Nick Mangold: 7.4mm saving out of 10.4mm.
Darrelle Revis: 6mm saving out of 6mm.
D'Brickashaw Ferguson: 5.25mm saving out of 10.42mm.
Stephen Hill: 1.03mm saving out of 1.5mm.

YotoJets007
09-01-2012, 05:16 PM
If Geno Smith and Shawnee Alston have monstrous senior campaign then I would want them for first and 2nd/3rd round picks. Don't argue with me!:diablo::diablo::diablo:

derza222
09-02-2012, 11:02 AM
I do like Geno Smith. Big, nice pocket presence, gets good zip on the ball. Like the way he's able to buy time and keep his eyes downfield. Alston isn't really the kind of back I'd like to bring in though, think the Jets would be better off adding a home run threat at RB or try to hit on a smaller, quick guy who can catch the ball out of the backfield (Ray Rice, Maurice Jones-Drew, Doug Martin, LeSean McCoy).

Frankly there are a good amount of quarterbacks I like in this draft, at least as of right now since obviously a lot can change during the season. I'm not giving up on Sanchez quite yet and frankly I do think he'll be a good NFL quarterback at some point, I'm just not sure it will be with the Jets. But I think at this point if the offense really craps out like it looks like it will something needs to shake up, and if it's a quarterback so be it.

While we're talking about West Virginia guys, how about Tavon Austin? Would be a great guy to bring in and add an explosive element to the offense IMO.

YotoJets007
09-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Tavon Austin is a nice distraction causer. No objection here.


I watched Clemson game. I thought TE Brandon Ford should be bigger than the listing said and looked good in both passing and blocking. Love his cute revenge on Auburn's CB #25.

Andre Ellington may be the exact RB Derza has been screaming for. He looked a real RB despite his questionable size for durability.

YotoJets007
09-10-2012, 02:29 PM
Bryan Thomas, Aaron Maybin and Calvin Pace could be goners after this season. I can see Pace's contract restructured to stay.

I doubt Tannenbaun will draft pass rushing OLB in the first round ever again. Jets can pull the similar manner with Stephen Hill in 2013 draft's 2nd round to grab a fallen 1st round grade OLB.


Lets assume Jets stay pat.... Quanterus Smith of Western Kentucky should be the ONE Jets and fans keep eyes on. 6 5 250 speedy edger who registered 3 sacks against friggin Alabama. His latest list has read 6 5 246 so I am not certain that he actually has fast game speed at 250-255. Because he has been undersized, his run defense isnot there yet.


Keep eyes on him. He will play against Kentucky and Southern Miss in next 2 games. Afterwards, unfortunately, he wont play against bigger games until the bowl berth if clinched.

Hurricanes25
09-10-2012, 08:43 PM
If Greene continues to run like this, I want a RB in that 2nd-4th round range to pair with Powell (hopefully he shows us something this year).

thetedginnshow
09-11-2012, 04:21 AM
I don't really think we need any additional games to let us know that we need to draft another RB.

derza222
09-11-2012, 06:04 PM
I could have told you that another RB was necessary before any games. Maybe we get lucky and Powell breaks out, but otherwise it's pretty much a lock that they draft one I think. Doubt they re-sign Greene, I'll be disappointed if they do.

YotoJets007
09-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Powell is the RB of the future. Greene fits in just fine. At least 85 yards per game for 13 games will get him 1k a season. That is good.

Only thing Jets lack is 2nd stringer RB. I can count on Powell taking over that job some time soon. McKnight get nowhere.


Remember Tannenbaun is Bellicheck's boy, not Parcells'. Bellicheck did draft RB in the first round once and it was disastrous. Parcells had never drafted RB in first round I believe.

Bellicheck and Parcells liked to trade down. Tannenbaun likes to trade up. The value of RB remains unclear as I still don't believe Tannenbaun will ever draft any RB any higher than 3rd round.

Giants drafting David Wilson in the first round last year so it may possibly influence on Tannenbaun's decision-making.


Knile Davis is so so, so far. I hope his value will slip into 2nd round and Jets snare him in the exact fashion of Stephen Hill.

YotoJets007
09-13-2012, 01:16 PM
Oh, I forget about Florida's Mike Gillislee. If his actual size is acceptable then he will be a 1st round prospect. He is about to surpass his collegiate career in total offense yards this weekend and he is senior. His wear and tear should be very fresh for NFL career.

YotoJets007
09-17-2012, 10:29 AM
Scratch Quanterus Smith off. I have no idea how the hell could he register 3 sacks against Alabama. Unless he had leg injury, he played like he had the thyroid condition issue.

- Finally went ahead of LOS but did not finish off plays.
- no explosiveness.
- frequently lost balance.
- no moves other than bull rush.


RB Mike Gillislee looked all right with groin injury. Groin injury was not a reason why he struggled. It was IOL. Could not open any holes. Gillislee made 2 big plays as a result OL finally opened hole twice. Andre Ellington is easily better because he has tons of experience.

YotoJets007
09-17-2012, 11:37 AM
I wish Jeff Driskel is senior this year. I like the way he has played.

YotoJets007
09-24-2012, 02:12 PM
Perhaps, Jets should draft 2 G or 1 G and 1 T that high. Howard would be called for holding many times if regular referees were officiating.

2 Gs with Howard at RT as he continues developing.

Or Jets could draft better T and move Howard inside replacing Moore.

derza222
09-24-2012, 08:14 PM
I don't see Howard moving inside, don't see many guards that small I think shorter tackles would get leverage way too easily.

That said I could easily see drafting a couple of offensive lineman early. Frankly I don't think the offensive line is the biggest problem on the team, but a dominant offensive line would certainly help the run game and it would be easier to pass obviously.

Obviously with both guards being FA's that's a potential need spot, although with Ducasse getting time I think they're trying to groom him for a starting spot next year. Then I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they either re-signed Moore to a short term deal or tried to let Schlauderaff start or compete with a rookie. And I don't think tackle is locked up with Howard either so that's an option, although it would be nice if he developed into a starter.

Not to beat a dead horse but I'm obviously not thrilled with Greene so unless someone steps up I could see that being a spot. Tight end is obviously potentially a need with Keller as a FA. Both safeties will be FA's so that's potentially a need, one OLB spot is pretty much wide open and there's a ton of pass rushers so that's another potential direction too. And depending on what happens the rest of the season QB could be an option. Should be interesting.

YotoJets007
09-27-2012, 11:51 AM
Backup OL need to show something to keep draft needs to minimal.

Cutting Pace and Scott to create good cap room to invest in both G via free agency is a good possibility but needing of LB will be skyrocketed.


It is tough to prioritize draft needs. No wonder, nobody has balls to do Jets mock. :spam:

YotoJets007
09-29-2012, 04:34 PM
Geno Smith? My god!

Tavon Austin is a must if Grimes and Powell handle RB duty just fine.

SenorGato
09-29-2012, 05:14 PM
Jarvis Jones in 1 and Jonathan Cooper in 2 please. Michael Williams, the Alabama TE, a little later.

Also, cut Scott and restructure Pace. Pace is a good player who wears the stigma of being a well paid NFL player, which is against the rules unless you're a QB or Ware/Suggs. Give him the Bryan Thomas role and he'll do it better than Thomas.

YotoJets007
10-17-2012, 09:24 AM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54087

I missed the opportunity but I probably wont get invited anyway. It was made by Derza and Hurricanes. Who else?


1st Round selection (12th overall): OG Chance Warmack, Alabama.

If Jets held any pick inside the top 15, the pick should be a play maker. It is too way high for Guard.

2nd Round selection: WR Stedman Bailey, West Virginia.

I like it. I think he can play outside at next level. I can see him making Holmes expendable after 2013 season.

3rd Round selection: OT Brennan Williams, North Carolina.

He is known for technique but he is strong enough for run blocking. I don't know where will he fit as Sparano is a sucker for a mauler. He could be a surprise for LT job as I think he will be at next level.


4th Round selection: Traded Away.

I have no idea what is the return but I am stick to draft only. Jets opted to trading 4th round pick away before they had a chance to land Landry Jones, a quarterback from Oklahoma, or Bruce Taylor, a pass rusher from Virginia Tech.

Personally, I probably don't go after them either but I would love to get Kniles Davis, a running back from Arkansas, or Blidi Wreh-Wilson, a cornerback from Connecticut.

Hurricanes25
10-17-2012, 01:59 PM
Just Derza and I, Yoto. For the 4th round, we traded away our pick to move down 13 spots and obtain a future 4th rounder. Then we traded away the 4th, for Paul Kruger and a 6th.

YotoJets007
10-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Just Derza and I, Yoto. For the 4th round, we traded away our pick to move down 13 spots and obtain a future 4th rounder. Then we traded away the 4th, for Paul Kruger and a 6th.

In that case, I am not sure if Kruger is an ideal for pass rushing job but SOLB will be needed to fill if his back checks out good.

derza222
10-18-2012, 06:53 PM
Out of curiosity, what playmaker would you have wanted to see drafted in the first round Yoto?

Old School
10-18-2012, 11:13 PM
Lattimore....... oh wait ......... I'm not Yoto .......... just saying .......

Hurricanes25
10-18-2012, 11:22 PM
Lattimore....... oh wait ......... I'm not Yoto .......... just saying .......

I love Lattimore but I would be extremely hesitant to take him in the first round. He is a bit injury prone, and he's gonna have a lot of mileage on those wheels before he even gets to the NFL. That's very concerning to me. Not to mention that RB's generally not good values in the 1st round.

derza222
10-19-2012, 07:56 AM
Nah that's cool Old School...I think 'Canes summed up my thoughts nicely there. I'd also like a bit more of a big play threat for going RB that early. There just weren't many playmakers I thought were good values at that point and Warmack filled a huge hole and will help in pass pro and the run game.

YotoJets007
10-19-2012, 10:28 AM
Out of curiosity, what playmaker would you have wanted to see drafted in the first round Yoto?

Dunno. I just can't go back and randomly pick any "passed on" playmaker. The fans' value regarding prospects is variously overblown. Robert Woods may be an ideal if his high ankle checks out good, meaning his explosiveness and speed could return.

In this mock, I would prefer Te'o to Warmack easily but I am pretty sure you and Cane protect Harris and Davis' stocks as starters.


Definitely no RB in any of top 20.

YotoJets007
10-19-2012, 10:31 AM
I love Lattimore but I would be extremely hesitant to take him in the first round. He is a bit injury prone, and he's gonna have a lot of mileage on those wheels before he even gets to the NFL. That's very concerning to me. Not to mention that RB's generally not good values in the 1st round.


Mike Gillislee and Gio Bernard are very fresh on wear and tear. I don't know if they actually have a shot for 1st round money but they look like they are.

YotoJets007
10-19-2012, 10:47 AM
DaMontre Moore, DE out of Texas A&M. He is a junior but if he is eligible for this mock, he should be a consensus for that first round pick.

derza222
10-19-2012, 11:01 AM
So in a year where the Jets are likely to have no starting OLB, safety, guard, running back, or tight end heading into the offseason you really think ILB is the move? Not to mention the issues at quarterback and right tackle, the fact that ILB isn't a critical position in the 3-4, and the fact that bringing in a more talented receiver would probably help the offense. I just don't get it. It's not like Harris and Davis are Patrick Willis and Navorro Bowman, but they're each certainly better than what the Jets are going to have at 10, 11 other starting spots heading into next season.

Moore wasn't eligible for the mock, Bernard I like and would love the Jets to land on day 2 in the real draft but also wasn't eligible.

YotoJets007
10-19-2012, 01:39 PM
So in a year where the Jets are likely to have no starting OLB, safety, guard, running back, or tight end heading into the offseason you really think ILB is the move? Not to mention the issues at quarterback and right tackle, the fact that ILB isn't a critical position in the 3-4, and the fact that bringing in a more talented receiver would probably help the offense. I just don't get it. It's not like Harris and Davis are Patrick Willis and Navorro Bowman, but they're each certainly better than what the Jets are going to have at 10, 11 other starting spots heading into next season.

Moore wasn't eligible for the mock, Bernard I like and would love the Jets to land on day 2 in the real draft but also wasn't eligible.


That is a joke. I had him in my draft mock. Humor failed. I need to practice harder.


For a playmaker in the first round, it is either quarterback, running back, pass rusher or big time wide receiver. Whoever fills one of those position is more logical than taking G in top 15.

derza222
10-19-2012, 04:15 PM
That is a joke. I had him in my draft mock. Humor failed. I need to practice harder.


For a playmaker in the first round, it is either quarterback, running back, pass rusher or big time wide receiver. Whoever fills one of those position is more logical than taking G in top 15.

BPA at those spots was Bray - Lattimore - Lemonier (maybe, pass rusher was fairly subjective but the best ones were gone) - Woods. So the value was tough there, Woods was the one we thought about most.

YotoJets007
10-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I don't blame you. Warmack is a sure thing.

YotoJets007
10-22-2012, 02:48 PM
LOL at Shane's 2 round mock. two of Jets posters wanted Te'o in the first round. I guess we should :wave: to Derza a good-bye. :naughty:


http://marbury.typepad.com/.a/6a00e5500eaa978834015432e52e92970c-500wi


It is not uncommon that juniors from all universities in Texas choose to stay for a senior campaign but what about BYU? My stereotype for Mormon people is that they dedicate their time to education and goodsy services.

WR Cody Hoffman, TE Kaneakua Friel, and LB Kyle Van Noy look good.

YotoJets007
10-28-2012, 05:25 PM
Quanterus Smith.. Remember him? He got 5 sacks in the game against Florida Atlantic. Unfortunately, he has disappeared more games.

Lattimore seeks the medical redshirt. If not, Jets should get him as UDFA. http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfv7qoTVMV1qzgp2x.gif

YotoJets007
10-29-2012, 10:31 AM
If there is no Chance Warmack for Jets then who is next better G? I don't want to see Slauson start anywhere at the LOS next season.

Hurricanes25
10-29-2012, 11:38 AM
If there is no Chance Warmack for Jets then who is next better G? I don't want to see Slauson start anywhere at the LOS next season.

Barrett Jones would be the next guy, although he'll probably be a C at the next level. After them 2, there's a fairly big drop to whoever is number 3.

YotoJets007
10-29-2012, 12:35 PM
Barrett Jones would be the next guy, although he'll probably be a C at the next level. After them 2, there's a fairly big drop to whoever is number 3.

Maybe few OT can work out as G like Brian Waters.

derza222
11-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Dallas Thomas would fit that mold, he's played some at both spots. Not a bad prospect though I only watched one game of his and would like to see more. Seemed like a solid day 2 option.

YotoJets007
11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
Dallas Thomas definitely crosses my mind. Him or Brian Winters could be nice day 2 pick. Both are a little bit lite for run blocking scheme.

How about LaAdrian Waddle? Much heavier and stronger for Sparano's system. Where do you think he would go?

YotoJets007
11-12-2012, 02:29 PM
First 3 round picks:

1- QB Mike Glennon, North Carolina State.
2- OL Dallas Thomas, Tennessee.
3- OLB Jaime Collins, Southern Miss.

Is it a good start or what?

Robcards
11-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Don't think we draft a QB until 2014 honestly, I could be wrong but last I checked cutting Sanchez after this season would be an enormous cap hit.

Assuming we pick around the 10-15 range here's what I see at the moment:

Round 1. Damontre Moore - OLB - Texas A & M
Good fit for the Jets scheme and he'd plug right into the primary rush linebacker spot. Has experience playing in a 3-4 as A&M just switched back to 4-3 this season but he still drops back in coverage occasionally. Explosive, disruptive, and versatile, he'd be a huge addition to a pathetic pass rush.

Round 2. Giovani Bernard - RB - North Carolina
We've had a horrible time replacing LT as a passing down back. Shonn Greene's contract expires after this year as well so the feature-back spot is up for grabs as well. Bilal Powell hasn't exactly wowed while he's been in there and has been having trouble staying healthy as well. I wanted Lattimore up until the unfortunate injury but after watching Bernard play a bunch he's definitely got what it takes to be a feature back in the NFL.

Round 3. Zach Ertz - TE - Stanford
Dustin Keller's contract is expiring as well and between the health issues and the drops I just don't want him back in a Jets uniform next year, and unless he has an amazing 2nd half I don't see how he is. Fortunately this class looks strong at TE (assuming guys like Ertz and Reed and Eifert declare) and Ertz is the complete package with good size, run-blocking, and good hands.

Day 3 depth selections: OL, WR, S, RB

SenorGato
11-22-2012, 06:37 AM
First 3 round picks:

1- QB Mike Glennon, North Carolina State.
2- OL Dallas Thomas, Tennessee.
3- OLB Jaime Collins, Southern Miss.

Is it a good start or what?

Or what.

I'm thinking more like:

DaMontre Moore
Jonathan Cooper/Rick Wagner/Some OL
Dion Jordan
Robert Lester
Michael Williams (TE)
Some RB
Some WR

AntoinCD
11-22-2012, 07:09 AM
Or what.

I'm thinking more like:

DaMontre Moore
Jonathan Cooper/Rick Wagner/Some OL
Dion Jordan
Robert Lester
Michael Williams (TE)
Some RB
Some WR

Dion Jordan in the 3rd? I would be shocked if he fell into the second

Razor
11-22-2012, 07:17 AM
You're not getting Damontre Moore unless you're picking in the 4-7 range, which I really doubt you will.

derza222
11-22-2012, 09:18 AM
Yeah unfortunately it looks like there's a good chance the Jets are going to miss out on all quarterbacks and the top tier pass rushers. I would love Moore or Jones (provided his health checks out, which I think is a bigger question mark than some care to admit at this point - look at what happened with Bowers a few years ago) and couldn't complain a dice roll on a QB but I'm not sure any of that is going to happen.

As for the QB point that Robcards made, at this point it isn't cost prohibitive to take a QB high in the draft. So I think now more than ever, the franchise QB rule in the draft applies to all teams. And that being the case, if the Jets think there's a franchise QB on the board when they pick, don't pass him up. Just one more year for the young guy to get his feet wet/you find out whether or not he's a bust a year earlier.

SenorGato
11-22-2012, 05:35 PM
I like Jordan alot and should have slashed him with Moore (/Jordan/Jones). Jordan's athleticism makes him legit enough for me that I just want him on the team. He's got the potential to play a similar role to what A. Thomas did for Rex, but with even freakier athleticism and more roles. I'd like at least one LB prospect early.

I have decided that if Logan Thomas falls far enough (like mid-3rd far) I would be very into the idea of the Jets drafting him.

YotoJets007
11-23-2012, 09:55 AM
Mike Glennon in the 1st round is a must. A mid round qb to be groomed under Mark Sanchez is a brilliant idea. ha!

derza222
11-23-2012, 10:13 AM
I like Jordan a lot also, I just don't see him as a third round guy. Pretty sure he's going in the first. Aside from the fact that I think he'd fit better on a team that already has a stud pass rusher in place, I'd be happy with the Jets drafting him.

YotoJets007
11-23-2012, 01:37 PM
I like Jordan a lot also, I just don't see him as a third round guy. Pretty sure he's going in the first. Aside from the fact that I think he'd fit better on a team that already has a stud pass rusher in place, I'd be happy with the Jets drafting him.


Half-Agreed... If Jets are manageable to land 2 veteran pass rushers as free agents then I am all for it. Otherwise, I don't think he will have a success with Jets after witnessing Aaron Maybin and Ricky Sapp.


Jordan can play coverage better than either Maybin or Sapp but without pass rushing it does not matter.


The way Jets had played and Wilfork had dominated last night, I may be tempting to get Johnathan Hankins despite of 3rd 1st round DL in a row.

derza222
11-24-2012, 02:36 PM
You draft Jordan as a versatile guy, not a pass rusher. His upside is just off the charts. Put him on tight ends, have him rush the passer, play zones, cover backs out of the backfield...the Jets could use a pass rusher but if there isn't one on the board they also need a lot more athleticism at LB.

With Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson, where does Hankins play in an even or odd front?

YotoJets007
11-24-2012, 03:22 PM
You draft Jordan as a versatile guy, not a pass rusher. His upside is just off the charts. Put him on tight ends, have him rush the passer, play zones, cover backs out of the backfield...the Jets could use a pass rusher but if there isn't one on the board they also need a lot more athleticism at LB.

With Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson, where does Hankins play in an even or odd front?


Jordan was supposed to be a dangerous pass rusher basing on his speed and off edge speed but so far I have watched him play a delay action. It is difficult to know whether or not he is a true pass rusher.


Jordan's coverage is good for one side of field, a quarterback will look other side. I don't see value that way in top 10. True pass rusher does cause game changing matter. Coverage does not.


I don't envision Ellis as a starting caliber NT. Hankins would start NT but will line up multiple positions like Wilkerson does.

derza222
11-24-2012, 07:43 PM
To me Jordan is high ceiling, high floor. He doesn't rush the passer much in college but is still fairly productive. Lots of pass rushing potential, but he can also do all sorts of things on the field. I kind of get the top 10 point you make, but if the other pass rushers are off the board and there's no QB either I'd take him. Super talented guy.

Agree to disagree on Ellis, I think he's good enough to be the long term NT.

Old School
12-17-2012, 09:52 PM
To begin the offensive overhaul: First three picks wish list .......

1 - J. Matthews - OT - Hard to argue with the bloodlines here. Obvious need. O-Line would look much different with him on the right side.
2 - T. Austin - WR - Harvin/Cobb - Lite. Play Maker that probably wont be available here. Could be there if we don't win out, and improve our draft position.
3 - A. Murray - QB - A winner. Produced even after AJ Green left. The height doesn't scare me.

YotoJets007
12-17-2012, 10:42 PM
Murray's arm is made for dome.


If Mike Glennon is selling well in this off season, I go with him over pass rusher in the first round.

Robcards
12-22-2012, 08:49 AM
Shoot me if the jets get Vick, smith, or Flynn. A day 2 qb is the way to go, QBs coming out are way better than before. I'd much rather have Kirk cousins, a 4th round guy than Vick or Alex Smith. Someone like Zac Dysert or Aaron Murray or Tyler bray on day 2 would have to be an improvement on Sanchez, with upside, and wouldn't cost anything.

Hurricanes25
12-27-2012, 06:22 PM
Meh, a day 2 QB is not the way to go. Every year, there is at least 1 or 2 QB's projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd rounds that I loved (Clemens, Stanton, Henne to name a few). It usually doesn't turn out well. I even remember Scott Wright writing an article on how the success rate of a 2nd or 3rd round QB is so low.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/23qb/23qbs.php

Dalton and Kaepernick were 2nd rounders in 2011. I'll give you that.

thetedginnshow
12-29-2012, 05:29 AM
I've changed my stance on the QB thing. All the big-name guys I've seen plenty of, but I watched videos on the rest and there is one guy I like: Zac Dysert. He's not perfect, but he's a whole lot better than the rest. The guys being talked about in the first are almost all god awful. Barkley and Wilson might be serviceable but the rest just are downright bad. Dysert has a little bit of everything though. He's like smaller, knock-off version of Big Ben. He's got good mobility, a pretty good arm, and enough accuracy when he can set his feet. He can even do the quick-kick that Big Ben does! I've never seen a worse supporting cast than what I saw from his, but he still did decent despite them. Looks a little like Sunshine too, so that can't be a bad thing. I don't know if the Jets will look at him because it might be too much to ask for them to go after the single 2nd-3rd round QB I'm interested in, but I think he's the best of the bunch. We would have to actually build a team around him first, though. He's not exactly a franchise maker. But besides him... yeah, I'd wait on a QB.

AHungryWalrus
12-29-2012, 09:05 AM
If we lose this week we have a good chance of picking top 10!

thetedginnshow
12-29-2012, 10:25 AM
I haven't seen everyone, but most of the top players I've watched and I looked at videos of the top 5 Seniors of all the top positions. Right now, these would be my top prospects.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE
3. Eric Fisher, OT
4. Tavon Austin, ATH
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB
6. John Simon, DE
7. Manti Te'o, ILB

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT
2. Dee Milliner, CB
3. Justin Hunter, WR

It would be nice to see us go after at least one of these game-breakers on offense. We need quite a bit more explosiveness.

YotoJets007
12-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Meh, a day 2 QB is not the way to go. Every year, there is at least 1 or 2 QB's projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd rounds that I loved (Clemens, Stanton, Henne to name a few). It usually doesn't turn out well. I even remember Scott Wright writing an article on how the success rate of a 2nd or 3rd round QB is so low.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/23qb/23qbs.php

Dalton and Kaepernick were 2nd rounders in 2011. I'll give you that.


Well, Jets can trade back into 1st round and pick Zac Dysert or Ryan Nassib. lol.


WCO quarterbacks work just fine with any rounds. That is why I would love to see Jets switch to WCO.

derza222
12-29-2012, 12:22 PM
Today's Pinstripe Bowl should be interesting with Nassib a potential day 2 prospect and Smith likely a first round guy who may or may not be available for the Jets.

YotoJets007
12-29-2012, 05:28 PM
Today's Pinstripe Bowl should be interesting with Nassib a potential day 2 prospect and Smith likely a first round guy who may or may not be available for the Jets.


Nassib looked good but the run game has dominated for 3 consecutive bowls.

derza222
12-29-2012, 05:34 PM
Nassib looked good but the run game has dominated for 3 consecutive bowls.

Yeah he looked solid early but also had some really ugly throws. Doesn't look like somebody I'd take in the first round. I'm with 'Canes on the whole first round or bust theory with drafting starting QB's, day two picks tend not to pan out. Don't think he's worth taking this year, but who knows maybe they take him. Will be interesting to see if he plays at the Senior Bowl and if so how he plays.

All of that said, I'm pretty sure the Jets could draft a QB in round 2 or 3 (even 4) who would come in and beat out Sanchez/McElroy for the starting job. So maybe it's a possibility. I'd rather just go with a first rounder or wait it out though.

YotoJets007
12-29-2012, 09:31 PM
Well, I still go for Nassib or Dysert if no Glennon. I would love to trade down in the first round to get extra pick before picking up Nassib or Dysert so that way I won't feel under pressure to take a quarterback over better prospect.


Sean Renfree will be out of action for 6 months. ouch! Jets could sign him as UDFA.

YotoJets007
12-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Jets owning 8th overall selection is a possibility. It may be a good chance for Jets to get either Smith or Glennon.

I should start to sabotage Glennon to make sure he is no number one pick. lol.

derza222
12-30-2012, 03:51 PM
I hope Smith goes #1 overall. He's my least favorite of the top QB's, so if he goes I could see Glennon or Wilson slipping to what looks to be a top 10 pick for the Jets. Seems like 9th overall is the most likely scenario.

thetedginnshow
12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
Oh man. If we waste that early pick on a QB, I will cry. But I wouldn't be surprised.

YotoJets007
12-30-2012, 06:38 PM
Oh man. If we waste that early pick on a QB, I will cry. But I wouldn't be surprised.


How much did you like Matt Ryan? Mike Glennon surely is better than him.

thetedginnshow
12-30-2012, 08:07 PM
How much did you like Matt Ryan? Mike Glennon surely is better than him.

What? Do you really think that? I guess we'll see lol.

To answer your question, I was a fan of Ryan since his Sophomore season at BC, so I was a fairly large supporter (but I was afraid he was getting a little overhyped when he was drafted so early).

You'll have to show me something to back up your belief that Glennon could be more talented, but right now, I really don't see it. I'll be sure to watch his game tomorrow though.

YotoJets007
12-30-2012, 08:13 PM
not much but statistic may be suggestible.

Mike Glennon stats.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mike-glennon-1.html

Matt Ryan stats.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-ryan-1.html

derza222
12-31-2012, 12:13 AM
I just don't think there's much of a way around taking a QB in the first round. Maybe they try to trade back into the first, or maybe they stand pat and try to take a Dysert/Nassib/Murray if he enters on day 2. But I'm not sure who trumps the value of a potential franchise QB and will be on the board at 9 at this point. A QB just does more for the team than any other spot by a large margin.

The one exception to this would be if they sign Vick in FA, which probably isn't that unlikley. Other than that, who do they go into the season with as a starter? McElroy? They almost have to draft someone. And frankly it's going to be hard for whoever they draft to be worse than what's currently on the roster.

YotoJets007
12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
Damontre Moore enters NFL draft. I still think top 10 is too high for rushing OLB as he will need to prove that he has frame to bulk up for 4-3 DE.

I hope Jets are able to trade down to get extra picks but there is no guarantee he will be available after 11th selection.

YotoJets007
12-31-2012, 11:14 AM
Which RB do you feel more comfortable to take for 2nd round?

Eddie Lacy
Mike Gillislee
Stepfan Taylor

thetedginnshow
12-31-2012, 12:30 PM
Which RB do you feel more comfortable to take for 2nd round?

Eddie Lacy
Mike Gillislee
Stepfan Taylor

Gillislee, but I'd take Franklin over all of them.

It's only half, but a very uninspiring performance from Glennon so far. What's more, he doesn't seem to be much of a leader. If this is #1 on everyone's list... yeah, all the more reason to not take a QB in the 1st. Not to mention the fact that there are several teams ahead of us that have QB needs.

derza222
12-31-2012, 01:23 PM
Yeah, Glennon doesn't look good today. Lots of bad throws. Still flashing traits and doesn't get a lot of help from his offense, but each pick was his fault. Lots of the games I've watched of his were "good" Glennon, this one's been pretty ugly. Probably time to pump the brakes on him a bit.

I still have seen a lot of throws that show me why I liked him. Mechanically I think he can clean a couple of things up, needs to stop throwing off of his back foot so much too. His lack of mobility and decision making could be issues though. And despite this ugly game I still think he's an upgrade for the Jets. Not comfortable with him at 9 at this point after seeing bad Glennon, but interested to see how he does at the Senior Bowl.

Guy I watched recently who could be available day 2 and I was relatively impressed by is Aaron Murray. Going to try to catch some more of him. Like the way he pushes the ball downfield.

YotoJets007
12-31-2012, 01:33 PM
I did not watch the game but judging by old games, Glennon liked to throw football rather than holding football when he was under pressure. That is big no no in NFL game. At least he is not a happy trigger like Ryan Lindley.


Tom O'Brien was fired so he did not coach this game as Vandy is a SEC with full coaching.

Also, NCST is not known for hunger so it probably is a why leadership is always in question.

YotoJets007
12-31-2012, 02:06 PM
Actually, I asked Mike Glennon to sabotage himself so he could fall onto Jets' first round selection. He actually did it... lol.

derza222
12-31-2012, 02:31 PM
He's got a pretty wide range of where he could land at this point I think. Obviously game tape is going to be huge, but the Senior Bowl will be interesting as well. He could fall to the Jets' fourth round selection too...

YotoJets007
12-31-2012, 10:05 PM
If qb class is that weak, I can see few teams snatch few ones earlier to get over with it. In my eyes, Glennon, Dysert and Nassib are only ones that can play at next level for any duration of NFL play.

I am not sure I can afford to play a wait and see approach on qb, barring trade or FA signing.

YotoJets007
01-01-2013, 02:00 PM
rex burkhead looks good. I want him.

IL DUCE
01-03-2013, 07:28 PM
Actually, I asked Mike Glennon to sabotage himself so he could fall onto Jets' first round selection. He actually did it... lol.

That's a gigantic reach, and I will be disgusted with the Jets if they make a move like that. Luckily, it looks like we are looking at great GM candidates so I doubt we'd make a stupid pick like taking Glennon @9 unless he's absolutely lights out throughout the pre-draft process...Geno Smith is the only "sure-fire" 1st round guy and he will go top 5...

Also, common sense would tell you Rex has a year to get his things together...I doubt he'd put it on the back of a rookie QB...I think he'd much rather sign a veteran stop gap, maybe draft a guy in the 2nd-4th rounds, let McElroy and I guess Sanchez compete if he's still here, and put some talent around them...if Rex is fired, then go QB in Round 1 in 2014 or 2015...you only take FRANCHISE QBs in Round 1, why take a Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder or a Jake Locker when you can wait until Round 2 or later and take guys like Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick & Russell Wilson?



I say go 3-4 OLB in the 1st (preferably Damontre Moore)...then I say go pretty much all offense aside from maybe a safety at some point in the draft, but plenty of QBs to choose from in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds like Bray, Nassib, Dysert, Landry Jones, probably Glennon, etc.

Damontre Moore enters NFL draft. I still think top 10 is too high for rushing OLB as he will need to prove that he has frame to bulk up for 4-3 DE.

I hope Jets are able to trade down to get extra picks but there is no guarantee he will be available after 11th selection.

and it is a falsehood that he needs to add weight to be a 4-3 DE b/c he played 4-3 end @ Texas A&M this year and then also played 3-4 OLB last year...plus the fact is we run a 3-4 defense so why would he need to play 4-3 end? Pass rushers are the 2nd most valuable position to QBs so top 10 is certainly not too high, esp the desperate situation we have at that position w/ Pace & Thomas both gone...and I assume you say 4-3 scheme assuming Coples can be moved outside...only problem is he excels as an interior pass rusher as he did his junior year at UNC...struggles as 4-3 end, which he was his senior year at UNC so it would be a waste to convert our D to a 4-3...I'd rather have a sure-fire impact rush LB than a 2nd round QB picked 30 picks early

YotoJets007
01-04-2013, 11:16 AM
Rex Ryan style of defense varies and Moore will not survive 4-3 front in NFL level right away. Moore has to play majority of game to worth top 10 pick and Jets don't play 3-4 all the time.


Also, Mike Glennon's jersey number is 8 so taking him will fix Rex Ryan's minor flawed tattoo. lol.

thetedginnshow
01-04-2013, 05:42 PM
Looking at where the talent is in the draft and the teams ahead of us, if we stay where we are in the 1st, I think looking at one of the top OT prospects would probably be the best way to go. Of course, I'm sure that would irk many people drafting a RT in the top 10. But then again, I don't think too highly of D'Brick either. Far too early to tell which way to go, though.

YotoJets007
01-04-2013, 08:02 PM
Looking at where the talent is in the draft and the teams ahead of us, if we stay where we are in the 1st, I think looking at one of the top OT prospects would probably be the best way to go. Of course, I'm sure that would irk many people drafting a RT in the top 10. But then again, I don't think too highly of D'Brick either. Far too early to tell which way to go, though.


That would be problematic. Ferguson has been above average LT and is committed for 4 more years on hefty contract. Give or Take.

DeAndre Hopkins could be a solid candidate for #9 selection.

IL DUCE
01-04-2013, 09:26 PM
Rex Ryan style of defense varies and Moore will not survive 4-3 front in NFL level right away. Moore has to play majority of game to worth top 10 pick and Jets don't play 3-4 all the time.


Also, Mike Glennon's jersey number is 8 so taking him will fix Rex Ryan's minor flawed tattoo. lol.

Dude, we don't play THAT much of legit 4-3...our base is 3-4 which we are in a good amount, and would be in more if we had a stud rush LB and not father time Calvin Pace and his grandfather Bryan Thomas...we are in a nickel w/ a 4 man front a decent amount so maybe that's what you are thinking of, especially when we play the Pats & Bills since they run a lot of spread...we also run the 46 a decent amount...

Damontre Moore has played 4-3 DE all year this year and had 80 tackles 20 TFL and 12.5 sacks prior to the Cotton Bowl that's currently taking place...he also played 3-4 "joker" OLB in the Texas A&M 3-4 D prior to this year...he can play whatever we need him to, but we need to go BPA in the 1st round and pass rushers are strong at the top of the draft and Damontre Moore is the guy to take in my opinion

Btw, I was also begging the Jets all offseason to take Chandler Jones, whose name of course got hotter towards the draft and ended up being a stud for the Pats...didn't mind the Coples pick, but now that we have two top notch 3-4 DEs we need that 3-4 rush LB so our defense can really do it's thing...then the rest of the draft we can worry about offense besides maybe a safety in one of the middle rounds

I just don't see Glennon being worth the 9th overall pick, you compare him to Matt Ryan but Matt Ryan threw 1,000 more yards than him in his final year so I'm not impressed by Glennon...I'd be fine with him in the 2nd, but certainly not the top 10...I still believe since Rex needs to try to win this year they won't draft a QB in the 1st...vet stop gap & maybe a mid round addition

IL DUCE
01-04-2013, 09:35 PM
If anything I'd rather wait until the white Mike Vick (Johnny Manziel) comes out and draft him instead lol

Caddy
01-04-2013, 09:40 PM
not much but statistic may be suggestible.

Mike Glennon stats.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mike-glennon-1.html

Matt Ryan stats.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-ryan-1.html

A stats comparison? How cute.

thetedginnshow
01-05-2013, 01:54 AM
Well Moore certainly didn't get me interested in him at all.

Robcards
01-05-2013, 06:27 AM
If anything I'd rather wait until the white Mike Vick (Johnny Manziel) comes out and draft him instead lol

He's going to be another Tim Tebow, no thanks. There's no way Manziel's production translates to the next level, classic case of having great athleticism for college, but in the nfl there's 280 lb guys that are as athletic as him.

If we're in a position to draft a qb in 2015-16, Kevin Hogan is the guy I want atm

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 11:26 AM
He's going to be another Tim Tebow, no thanks. There's no way Manziel's production translates to the next level, classic case of having great athleticism for college, but in the nfl there's 280 lb guys that are as athletic as him.

If we're in a position to draft a qb in 2015-16, Kevin Hogan is the guy I want atm

Incorrect, Collin Klein is another Tim Tebow...Manziel is on an entirely different level...if you watched the Cotton Bowl last night he throws MUCH better than Tebow, probably not as strong as an arm as Vick but definitely more accurate...and he is WAAAY faster and WAY more shifty than Tebow ever was, he's probably a notch below Vick but he's probably on the same speed level as RG3 or maybe a tiny bit slower...

I do agree though, I like Kevin Hogan and would love for us to take him, and if we get someone like Alex Smith or whoever to fill the gap for a couple of years I'd be 100% on board with Hogan in 2015-16...

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Well Moore certainly didn't get me interested in him at all.

Watch every game he played this year and you will be interested...even though last night was a quiet game for him he still had a positive impact getting QB pressures and making plays in the run game...and I have that offsides penalty recorded, he was not offsides he just timed his jump so well that it looked like he was offsides because he came off the ball as soon as the center began his snap...and he destroyed the RG & RT that were trying to double team him...so yeah, there's a reason they called him DAMONSTER!

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 12:20 PM
Since I could not complete the 1st round mock due to a lack of quarterback quality, I go with Jets only mock here.


1.9 ----> 1.14 - WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson.

Jets traded down to 14th overall section in order to get #107(4th round) and next year's 2nd round pick. Since Panthers don't have this year's 3rd round pick, the value of it will convert into next year's 2nd round.
The trade allowed Panthers to land DT Johnathan Hankins. Jets got a legit WR aboard. It is risky to count on Hill's ACL/Development and Holmes' ACL/whining situations.


2. OLB Jamie Collins, Southern Miss.

He is similar to Dion Jordan but smaller. Coverage, run defender, edge speed. He will need to bulk up to get strength against OL. For now, he will be used as edge speed with passive drop back into coverage.

3. OLB Travis Long, Washington State.

Despite one year as OLB in 3-4 for Mike Leach, he looks a part of it. He is more of relentless player than tempo up speed. He could be a mix of Brooks Reed and Shaun Phillips. He may be a perfect ideal for Bryan Thomas' permanent replacement.

4. LG Brian Winters, Kent State.

I still think he is a 2nd rounder but I expect qb frenzy in 2nd round and athleticism frenzy in 3rd round will push decent OL further. He is excellent at run blocking. He is sound at pass protection but he may not be quick enough to handle speedy pass rusher. LG is perfect spot for Winters.

4. (Panthers). SS Duke Williams, Nevada.

Let me assume Jets will keep Bell over Landry due to tighter budget. Williams offers better LaRon Landry skill set with good coverage. Williams should be a good long fixture for SS with Josh Bush at FS.

5. QB Ryan Radcliff, Central Michigan.

There is no clear cut NFL prodigy in the qb class this year so why should we gamble higher pick on one. Radcliff has good arm strength and is capable to throw deep and into a spot instead of waiting for WR to make eye contact with him. He lacks of NFL footwork, NFL defense read and playing against legit defense. I can see him beat Greg McElroy for number 3. He is UDFA projection but his arm strength alone will make him draftable with Sean Renfree out due to chest surgery that knocks him out for a half of this year.

6. RB Rex Burkhead, Nebraska.

Shonn Greene is not coming back as of right now. Burkhead should replace him perfectly. He has good burst and quickness for 10 yards. He is able to wheel out. The rest of him is an ideal for a stud as FB.


7. RB George Winn, Cincinnati.

Another RB? Why not. I am not sold on Bilial Powell as a starting caliber. Powell, Burkhead and Winn share duties until it becomes clearer. He looks a legit runningback but I am not sure why he is not a draftable prospect at this moment. I get him in 7th round to bolster the depth. That is all I care about.



UDFA-

TE Ben Cotton, Nebraska.
K Zach Brown, Portland State or whoever available.
OL LaAdrian Waddle, Texas Tech.
OLB John Youboty, Temple.



EDIT: If you must know... Jets would have enough ammo to trade up for Terry Bridgewater(if he improved his accuracy under duress and forgo for NFL next season). 2014's 1st, 2 2nds and 2015's 1st should be juicy enough to trade up for number one selection. That way Jets don't have to suck for Bridgewater prematurely.

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Watch every game he played this year and you will be interested...even though last night was a quiet game for him he still had a positive impact getting QB pressures and making plays in the run game...and I have that offsides penalty recorded, he was not offsides he just timed his jump so well that it looked like he was offsides because he came off the ball as soon as the center began his snap...and he destroyed the RG & RT that were trying to double team him...so yeah, there's a reason they called him DAMONSTER!


Did he play against Lane Johnson? Johnson could help himself into 1st round consideration if he handled Moore well.

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 02:14 PM
Did he play against Lane Johnson? Johnson could help himself into 1st round consideration if he handled Moore well.

He was against Lane Johnson some times, since Moore played both right end & left end in the game...but mostly I saw Moore at left end playing against Oklahoma's right tackle...Lane Johnson did have a pretty good game as far as I could tell though

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 02:17 PM
Since I could not complete the 1st round mock due to a lack of quarterback quality, I go with Jets only mock here.


1.9 ----> 1.14 - WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson.

Jets traded down to 14th overall section in order to get #107(4th round) and next year's 2nd round pick. Since Panthers don't have this year's 3rd round pick, the value of it will convert into next year's 2nd round.
The trade allowed Panthers to land DT Johnathan Hankins. Jets got a legit WR aboard. It is risky to count on Hill's ACL/Development and Holmes' ACL/whining situations.


I thought you wanted the Jets to take Mike Glennon 9th overall?

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 02:22 PM
I thought you wanted the Jets to take Mike Glennon 9th overall?


Nah... I just fooled around.

Robcards
01-05-2013, 02:32 PM
Incorrect, Collin Klein is another Tim Tebow...Manziel is on an entirely different level...if you watched the Cotton Bowl last night he throws MUCH better than Tebow, probably not as strong as an arm as Vick but definitely more accurate...and he is WAAAY faster and WAY more shifty than Tebow ever was, he's probably a notch below Vick but he's probably on the same speed level as RG3 or maybe a tiny bit slower...

I do agree though, I like Kevin Hogan and would love for us to take him, and if we get someone like Alex Smith or whoever to fill the gap for a couple of years I'd be 100% on board with Hogan in 2015-16...

Manziel really isn't that fast, trust me if the combine were tomorrow his athleticism would likely not even be as good as Andrew Luck. Regardless, I wasnt making a comparison to Tebow, more using Tebow as an example of a guy who was athletic enough to crush at the college level and had an arm that was decent enough to win a Heisman but sucks in the NFL. They're obviously much different players, but if anything Tebow's better size is more important than Manziel's better arm. I'm sure theres a chance that Manziel will be good in the NFL, but I wouldn't consider it a good one and whoever takes him is taking on a very huge bust risk.

Robcards
01-05-2013, 02:34 PM
Since I could not complete the 1st round mock due to a lack of quarterback quality, I go with Jets only mock here.


1.9 ----> 1.14 - WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson.

Jets traded down to 14th overall section in order to get #107(4th round) and next year's 2nd round pick. Since Panthers don't have this year's 3rd round pick, the value of it will convert into next year's 2nd round.
The trade allowed Panthers to land DT Johnathan Hankins. Jets got a legit WR aboard. It is risky to count on Hill's ACL/Development and Holmes' ACL/whining situations.


2. OLB Jamie Collins, Southern Miss.

He is similar to Dion Jordan but smaller. Coverage, run defender, edge speed. He will need to bulk up to get strength against OL. For now, he will be used as edge speed with passive drop back into coverage.

3. OLB Travis Long, Washington State.

Despite one year as OLB in 3-4 for Mike Leach, he looks a part of it. He is more of relentless player than tempo up speed. He could be a mix of Brooks Reed and Shaun Phillips. He may be a perfect ideal for Bryan Thomas' permanent replacement.

4. LG Brian Winters, Kent State.

I still think he is a 2nd rounder but I expect qb frenzy in 2nd round and athleticism frenzy in 3rd round will push decent OL further. He is excellent at run blocking. He is sound at pass protection but he may not be quick enough to handle speedy pass rusher. LG is perfect spot for Winters.

4. (Panthers). SS Duke Williams, Nevada.

Let me assume Jets will keep Bell over Landry due to tighter budget. Williams offers better LaRon Landry skill set with good coverage. Williams should be a good long fixture for SS with Josh Bush at FS.

5. QB Ryan Radcliff, Central Michigan.

There is no clear cut NFL prodigy in the qb class this year so why should we gamble higher pick on one. Radcliff has good arm strength and is capable to throw deep and into a spot instead of waiting for WR to make eye contact with him. He lacks of NFL footwork, NFL defense read and playing against legit defense. I can see him beat Greg McElroy for number 3. He is UDFA projection but his arm strength alone will make him draftable with Sean Renfree out due to chest surgery that knocks him out for a half of this year.

6. RB Rex Burkhead, Nebraska.

Shonn Greene is not coming back as of right now. Burkhead should replace him perfectly. He has good burst and quickness for 10 yards. He is able to wheel out. The rest of him is an ideal for a stud as FB.


7. RB George Winn, Cincinnati.

Another RB? Why not. I am not sold on Bilial Powell as a starting caliber. Powell, Burkhead and Winn share duties until it becomes clearer. He looks a legit runningback but I am not sure why he is not a draftable prospect at this moment. I get him in 7th round to bolster the depth. That is all I care about.



UDFA-

TE Ben Cotton, Nebraska.
K Zach Brown, Portland State or whoever available.
OL LaAdrian Waddle, Texas Tech.
OLB John Youboty, Temple.



EDIT: If you must know... Jets would have enough ammo to trade up for Terry Bridgewater(if he improved his accuracy under duress and forgo for NFL next season). 2014's 1st, 2 2nds and 2015's 1st should be juicy enough to trade up for number one selection. That way Jets don't have to suck for Bridgewater prematurely.


Sweet, we ignore all of our needs to take a WR. A reach at that. :freakout:

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 02:48 PM
Manziel really isn't that fast, trust me if the combine were tomorrow his athleticism would likely not even be as good as Andrew Luck. Regardless, I wasnt making a comparison to Tebow, more using Tebow as an example of a guy who was athletic enough to crush at the college level and had an arm that was decent enough to win a Heisman but sucks in the NFL. They're obviously much different players, but if anything Tebow's better size is more important than Manziel's better arm. I'm sure theres a chance that Manziel will be good in the NFL, but I wouldn't consider it a good one and whoever takes him is taking on a very huge bust risk.

Yeah I just don't see the terrible throwing motion from Manziel that Tebow had (and Collin Klein also has)...also watching him last night in the Cotton Bowl where Tebow would break free on broken plays and roll over people, Manziel looked like a running back making people miss and running through small spaces...I think he has at least as much athleticism as Russell Wilson, so maybe that's a more appropriate comparison

Robcards
01-05-2013, 02:50 PM
Yeah I just don't see the terrible throwing motion from Manziel that Tebow had (and Collin Klein also has)...also watching him last night in the Cotton Bowl where Tebow would break free on broken plays and roll over people, Manziel looked like a running back making people miss and running through small spaces...I think he has at least as much athleticism as Russell Wilson, so maybe that's a more appropriate comparison

Keep in mind he weighs about 40 lbs less than Russell Wilson though.

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 03:35 PM
Sweet, we ignore all of our needs to take a WR. A reach at that. :freakout:



WR is kind of a need. Hopkins is not a reach in the first round.

Robcards
01-05-2013, 03:56 PM
WR is kind of a need. Hopkins is not a reach in the first round.

Wr isn't a need. Holmes hill and Kerley are locked in next year. We currently need 2 OLB 2 G 1 RB 1-2 TE 1 RT 2 S, we can't afford to use picks on positions other than those

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 05:15 PM
Wr isn't a need. Holmes hill and Kerley are locked in next year. We currently need 2 OLB 2 G 1 RB 1-2 TE 1 RT 2 S, we can't afford to use picks on positions other than those


In my mock

2 OLB- checked.
2 G- One downed with with few in house choices for RG.
1-2 TE- checked.
1 RB- checked.
1 RT- checked.
2 S- One downed.

That is all without free agency. What is your point?

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Keep in mind he weighs about 40 lbs less than Russell Wilson though.

40 lbs less than Russell Wilson?

Russell Wilson - 5'11" 205 lbs

Johnny Manziel - 6'0" (listed 6'1") 200 lbs

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 06:00 PM
I would like to see the Jets do something like this:

Round 1 - Damontre Moore (OLB/DE, Texas A&M)
Round 2 - Eric Reid (S, LSU)
Round 3 - Zac Dysert (QB, Miami of Ohio)
Round 4 - Travis Kelce (TE, Cincinnati)

Of course you can mix running back or maybe a WR into the 2-4 rounds but we could probably get a guy like Knile Davis, Christine Michael or Spencer Ware in the 5th to fill some RB depth, I really just would like them to take a stud pass rusher in the 1st and then focus on needs like OG, OT, RB, WR, TE, QB & S in the rest of the draft...also would like us to sign a nice UDFA FB and maybe look at a guy like Dustin Hopkins as a kicker in the 6th or 7th

Also wouldn't mind if we took either Gabe Jackson or Alvin Bailey in rounds 3-4 to fill a huge hole @ OG

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 06:49 PM
http://www.recordpub.com/sports/2013/01/03/ksu-left-tackle-winters-set-to-begin-pursuit-of-nfl-career-following-godaddy-com-bowl.html

Zero chance that he will fall into 4th round. Shame on me.

YotoJets007
01-05-2013, 06:53 PM
I would like to see the Jets do something like this:

Round 1 - Damontre Moore (OLB/DE, Texas A&M)
Round 2 - Eric Reid (S, LSU)
Round 3 - Zac Dysert (QB, Miami of Ohio)
Round 4 - Travis Kelce (TE, Cincinnati)

Of course you can mix running back or maybe a WR into the 2-4 rounds but we could probably get a guy like Knile Davis, Christine Michael or Spencer Ware in the 5th to fill some RB depth, I really just would like them to take a stud pass rusher in the 1st and then focus on needs like OG, OT, RB, WR, TE, QB & S in the rest of the draft...also would like us to sign a nice UDFA FB and maybe look at a guy like Dustin Hopkins as a kicker in the 6th or 7th

Also wouldn't mind if we took either Gabe Jackson or Alvin Bailey in rounds 3-4 to fill a huge hole @ OG


I am kind of bittersweet to watch Travis Kelce continue shooting up the draft board.

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 08:41 PM
Yeah he could go as high as the 3rd round...he is good at blocking and both receiving though...I'd love Dion Sims also in the 3rd or 4th round

We can definitely fill a lot of holes in this draft if we draft right...good OGs, TEs, RBs, WRs, QBs, safties all to be had in different rounds...still think we need to take best rush LB available in the 1st though, need our own D-Ware type player

Robcards
01-05-2013, 10:35 PM
In my mock

2 OLB- checked.
2 G- One downed with with few in house choices for RG.
1-2 TE- checked.
1 RB- checked.
1 RT- checked.
2 S- One downed.

That is all without free agency. What is your point?

My point is there is 0% chance they take a wr in the first. It's not a need and there won't be a wr that is BPA so it makes no sense whatsoever. How would Hopkins be BPA even if we trade back to 14?

derza222
01-05-2013, 11:07 PM
I think an argument could be made for taking a WR in round one if they happened to be a clear BPA. That would be completely shocking based on everything we know at this point in terms of who's in the draft, though. And I think from a positional perspective there are clearly larger needs at most other positions.

Provided we bring in Gamble as expected I'm expecting a pass rusher in the first round and a QB somewhere on day 2. We'll see what happens though.

IL DUCE
01-05-2013, 11:21 PM
I think an argument could be made for taking a WR in round one if they happened to be a clear BPA. That would be completely shocking based on everything we know at this point in terms of who's in the draft, though. And I think from a positional perspective there are clearly larger needs at most other positions.

Provided we bring in Gamble as expected I'm expecting a pass rusher in the first round and a QB somewhere on day 2. We'll see what happens though.

Agreed, but if we somehow get Alex Smith and have an OC like Norv Turner that fits his style I could see us focusing on filling other holes other than QB on Day 2

derza222
01-06-2013, 06:47 AM
I really hope we don't get Alex Smith. Not sure how much that really helps.

IL DUCE
01-06-2013, 08:30 AM
I really hope we don't get Alex Smith. Not sure how much that really helps.

I'm not a huge fan but he's certainly better than Sanchez...Rex will want a stop-gap vet either way b/c he likely has to win in 2013 to keep his job...if we get Norv Turner, Alex Smith did well in his system plus I'm just doing dot connecting with the supposed Gamble hire...plus maybe we could send them Sanchez for Alex Smith and maybe send them a mid round pick or a player...

So unless Rex gets assurance that he doesnt have to win this year to keep his job we'll be signing either Matt Moore or Jason Campbell, or guys who need to be traded for or will likely be released like Alex Smith, Michael Vick or Matt Flynn...not saying I agree with these moves, but they are likely to occur

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 09:17 AM
My point is there is 0% chance they take a wr in the first. It's not a need and there won't be a wr that is BPA so it makes no sense whatsoever. How would Hopkins be BPA even if we trade back to 14?


Calvin Pace could take a pay cut to remain with us. Bryan Thomas could take a vet minimum to remain working for Ryan. Defense has done just fine without pass rusher.

Santonio Holmes will be removed from the squad after 2013. Stephen Hill is far away from NFL ready. Jeremy Kerley serves the best at slot. Mark Sanchez and the pass offense haven't productive. Whoever is under center, he will need a 2 or 3 year stability in QB-WR relationship. Tannenbaum sabotaged this relationship with Sanchez in past.


Saying that WR is zero need is incorrect. Hopkins has shot to be first WO off the board. So thus, he could be BPA.

If you insist on spending the first round selection to fill a need then it is a quarterback. QB situation is by far worse than OLB situation before the off season kicks in.

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 09:26 AM
I really hope we don't get Alex Smith. Not sure how much that really helps.


I don't think 49ers will let Alex Smith walk. 2 reasons. Kaepernick is still unproven and few teams scream for qb solution or gap-stop with weak qb class for 2013 draft and free agency (after Joe Flacco).


However, if 49ers indeed release Smith then Jets should take him. He is already beyond the struggle stage and knows how to control the football better. Sanchez is stuck in the struggle stage and Jets have no wait time for him to get around and help Jets back to a playoff contender.

IL DUCE
01-06-2013, 09:41 AM
I don't think 49ers will let Alex Smith walk. 2 reasons. Kaepernick is still unproven and few teams scream for qb solution or gap-stop with weak qb class for 2013 draft and free agency (after Joe Flacco).


However, if 49ers indeed release Smith then Jets should take him. He is already beyond the struggle stage and knows how to control the football better. Sanchez is stuck in the struggle stage and Jets have no wait time for him to get around and help Jets back to a playoff contender.

Yeah I don't think they'd let him walk unless they need to free up cap room...I do think however they would listen to reasonable trade offers for him, and with Gamble running the show I'm sure he could work out a fair deal for him

derza222
01-06-2013, 12:18 PM
I'm not a huge fan but he's certainly better than Sanchez...Rex will want a stop-gap vet either way b/c he likely has to win in 2013 to keep his job...if we get Norv Turner, Alex Smith did well in his system plus I'm just doing dot connecting with the supposed Gamble hire...plus maybe we could send them Sanchez for Alex Smith and maybe send them a mid round pick or a player...

So unless Rex gets assurance that he doesnt have to win this year to keep his job we'll be signing either Matt Moore or Jason Campbell, or guys who need to be traded for or will likely be released like Alex Smith, Michael Vick or Matt Flynn...not saying I agree with these moves, but they are likely to occur

I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.

IL DUCE
01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.

Fair enough, but I think he will attempt to put Rex in a position to succeed either way...plus with Gamble coming from San Fran I don't see why he wouldn't attempt to get Alex Smith especially if the OC we hire runs a system similar to San Fran or one that plays to his strengths...I could see a deal like Alex Smith for Sanchez & Cromartie just making sense, although I'd probably rather send Cromartie to the Lions, Colts, Bucs, Raiders or another CB needy team for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick

Robcards
01-06-2013, 01:02 PM
Calvin Pace could take a pay cut to remain with us. Bryan Thomas could take a vet minimum to remain working for Ryan. Defense has done just fine without pass rusher.

Santonio Holmes will be removed from the squad after 2013. Stephen Hill is far away from NFL ready. Jeremy Kerley serves the best at slot. Mark Sanchez and the pass offense haven't productive. Whoever is under center, he will need a 2 or 3 year stability in QB-WR relationship. Tannenbaum sabotaged this relationship with Sanchez in past.


Saying that WR is zero need is incorrect. Hopkins has shot to be first WO off the board. So thus, he could be BPA.

If you insist on spending the first round selection to fill a need then it is a quarterback. QB situation is by far worse than OLB situation before the off season kicks in.


I am willing to wager a lot of money that DeAndre Hopkins isn't the BPA when the Jets pick in the first round. Keenan Allen and Terrance Williams are much better WRs. That and most of the pass rushers in this class are much higher value than any wideout let alone the third best one. It's just completely unreasonable to think Hopkins will be a Jet. Hopkins will probably be selected in the late 1st

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 01:53 PM
I am willing to wager a lot of money that DeAndre Hopkins isn't the BPA when the Jets pick in the first round. Keenan Allen and Terrance Williams are much better WRs. That and most of the pass rushers in this class are much higher value than any wideout let alone the third best one. It's just completely unreasonable to think Hopkins will be a Jet. Hopkins will probably be selected in the late 1st


I can give you Keenan Allen but since he is out with PCL surgery, I don't know if game film is enough to warrant him as top WR.

Terrance Williams runs lousy routes. I don't see him ahead of Robert Woods who may be a bottom 1st rounder.

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.



Rex Ryan wants a quarterback that moves the chain regularly for better game management. Tom Gamble will give him one. If Ryan wants Mike Vick then Gamble has to overrule him and give him Alex Smith.

That is something I want to witness.

derza222
01-06-2013, 01:59 PM
Fair enough, but I think he will attempt to put Rex in a position to succeed either way...plus with Gamble coming from San Fran I don't see why he wouldn't attempt to get Alex Smith especially if the OC we hire runs a system similar to San Fran or one that plays to his strengths...I could see a deal like Alex Smith for Sanchez & Cromartie just making sense, although I'd probably rather send Cromartie to the Lions, Colts, Bucs, Raiders or another CB needy team for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick

I disagree that he's going to try to put Rex in a position to succeed year 1. The team has an absolutely awful cap situation, about half of their starters are free agents or are guaranteed to be cut, and is coming off a 6-10 season. This year has to be a rebuilding year, the team is just not in a situation where they can add a few guys and compete for the playoffs.

This is a season where they take their lumps, let young guys develop, and try to come back and compete in 2014/2015. That's the smart way to do it, and I have to assume Gamble is a smart guy. If anything Rex is a guy to take the heat for a bad season this year before Gamble brings in a coach he actually wants in my opinion. They try to bring in Smith and compete this year it's just going to set the team back even further.

Rex Ryan wants a quarterback that moves the chain regularly for better game management. Tom Gamble will give him one. If Ryan wants Mike Vick then Gamble has to overrule him and give him Alex Smith.

That is something I want to witness.

Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 02:02 PM
Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?


Dunno. It has something to do with weak qb class.

derza222
01-06-2013, 02:07 PM
Dunno. It has something to do with weak qb class.

I could see bringing in a cheap backup type. But a guy like Smith is going to want money and a long-term deal if released, and is owed a substantial amount of money on his current contract. If he was an elite QB that would be one thing, but he's a mediocre quarterback who's not going to make his supporting cast better.

Why tie up the cap in the future for a guy like that when your team clearly needs to rebuild? Or even this year when you have little to no cap room? It just makes no sense to me. If the end goal is eventually winning a Super Bowl, I have no idea how bringing in Alex Smith helps you achieve that.

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
I could see bringing in a cheap backup type. But a guy like Smith is going to want money and a long-term deal if released, and is owed a substantial amount of money on his current contract. If he was an elite QB that would be one thing, but he's a mediocre quarterback who's not going to make his supporting cast better.

Why tie up the cap in the future for a guy like that when your team clearly needs to rebuild? Or even this year when you have little to no cap room? It just makes no sense to me. If the end goal is eventually winning a Super Bowl, I have no idea how bringing in Alex Smith helps you achieve that.


Well... 2013 budget is tighter but 2014 cap room is plenty.

y1 should be the lowest of the contract.

y2 should be the highest salary of the contract.


If Gamble thinks Alex Smith is the answer so be it. If Gamble wants a rookie quarterback some time in first two years then passing on Smith if his price is too high.

Now, I concern of Smith's demanding the starter contract because having him aboard may affect Revis' new contract. Will Jets draft CB as BPA this April in wake of Revis being potentially non Jet for 2014?

derza222
01-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Well... 2013 budget is tighter but 2014 cap room is plenty.

y1 should be the lowest of the contract.

y2 should be the highest salary of the contract.


If Gamble thinks Alex Smith is the answer so be it. If Gamble wants a rookie quarterback some time in first two years then passing on Smith if his price is too high.

Now, I concern of Smith's demanding the starter contract because having him aboard may affect Revis' new contract. Will Jets draft CB as BPA this April in wake of Revis being potentially non Jet for 2014?

Well if the Niners don't release Smith I think he's due approximately 8 million. That's basically all of the Jets' cap room after they release a bunch of guys. Do you really think a team heading into the draft of:

QB: Smith
RB: Powell
FB: ?
WR: Holmes (coming off an injury)
WR: Hill
WR: Kerley
TE: ? (Keller and Cumberland are FA's)
OT: Ferguson
OT: ? (Howard is a RFA)
G: Schlauderaff
G: Ducasse
C: Mangold

DE: Wilkerson
DT: Pouha
DE: Coples
OLB: Sapp
ILB: Harris
ILB: Davis (Scott will be cut)
OLB: ? (Pace will be cut, Thomas and McIntyre are FA's)
CB: Revis
S: Bush
S: Allen
CB: Cromartie

Is a contender? Folk is a FA also. This team would have the draft and money to sign a couple of minor FA's. They would at the very least NEED to bring in a starting OLB, a starting TE, and a starting RT or re-sign guys. And the depth behind those guys is as bad as you would think at most positions.

After cutting all of the guys who would reasonably be cut and not cutting in Sanchez and bringing in Smith they would have about 6M in space plus I think they can roll over 4M that was unused last year but not sure on that. If they have the 4M to roll over pretty much all of that would get used on rookies, so maybe 6M to bring in a few guys or re-sign a couple FA's. Probably closer to 5 though.

Point being, with or without Alex Smith next year's team is going to be bad. But why tie up long-term and present money in an average QB who limits your ability to put together a good team this year and ties up cap space down the road? How does he have success on that supporting cast on offense, with at best a slightly above average defense anyway?

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 02:45 PM
Releasing Smith won't wipe a whole 8m. 5m is guaranteed with 3m roster bonus. 5m is still pricey if he is released.

Paying him 1.5m to start for us in 2013 is not problematic.

derza222
01-06-2013, 02:47 PM
Not sure what your point is there. You think the 49ers release Smith and the Jets are going to be able to sign him to a one year, 1.5 million dollar deal?

YotoJets007
01-06-2013, 03:00 PM
Dion Jordan sucks.... 10 chars.

Robcards
01-06-2013, 07:49 PM
I'm annoyed that Kruger had such a dominating performance today I was hoping the jets could use what little cap space they had on him but if he keeps crushing he's gonna cost too much :(

thetedginnshow
01-07-2013, 01:48 AM
Well if the Niners don't release Smith I think he's due approximately 8 million. That's basically all of the Jets' cap room after they release a bunch of guys. Do you really think a team heading into the draft of:

QB: Smith
RB: Powell
FB: ?
WR: Holmes (coming off an injury)
WR: Hill
WR: Kerley
TE: ? (Keller and Cumberland are FA's)
OT: Ferguson
OT: ? (Howard is a RFA)
G: Schlauderaff
G: Ducasse
C: Mangold

DE: Wilkerson
DT: Pouha
DE: Coples
OLB: Sapp
ILB: Harris
ILB: Davis (Scott will be cut)
OLB: ? (Pace will be cut, Thomas and McIntyre are FA's)
CB: Revis
S: Bush
S: Allen
CB: Cromartie

Is a contender? Folk is a FA also. This team would have the draft and money to sign a couple of minor FA's. They would at the very least NEED to bring in a starting OLB, a starting TE, and a starting RT or re-sign guys. And the depth behind those guys is as bad as you would think at most positions.

After cutting all of the guys who would reasonably be cut and not cutting in Sanchez and bringing in Smith they would have about 6M in space plus I think they can roll over 4M that was unused last year but not sure on that. If they have the 4M to roll over pretty much all of that would get used on rookies, so maybe 6M to bring in a few guys or re-sign a couple FA's. Probably closer to 5 though.

Point being, with or without Alex Smith next year's team is going to be bad. But why tie up long-term and present money in an average QB who limits your ability to put together a good team this year and ties up cap space down the road? How does he have success on that supporting cast on offense, with at best a slightly above average defense anyway?

After seeing it all out on paper, I'm really excited because I think our GM will finally do the right thing and draft some quality O-Linemen.

Robcards
01-07-2013, 11:24 AM
After seeing it all out on paper, I'm really excited because I think our GM will finally do the right thing and draft some quality O-Linemen.

Slauson will likely be cheap enough to keep, and I expect they will tender Howard. If not, o-line is much easier to get from FA than other positions of need. We have to get a qb, OLB, and RB from the draft I feel

derza222
01-07-2013, 11:43 AM
I kind of don't expect them to keep Slauson around, but maybe they will. I'm kind of thinking that Moore gets a similar deal to Pouha last year and Ducasse ends up starting at LG. That's certainly where things seemed to be headed last year anyway.

IL DUCE
01-07-2013, 11:49 AM
I disagree that he's going to try to put Rex in a position to succeed year 1. The team has an absolutely awful cap situation, about half of their starters are free agents or are guaranteed to be cut, and is coming off a 6-10 season. This year has to be a rebuilding year, the team is just not in a situation where they can add a few guys and compete for the playoffs.

This is a season where they take their lumps, let young guys develop, and try to come back and compete in 2014/2015. That's the smart way to do it, and I have to assume Gamble is a smart guy. If anything Rex is a guy to take the heat for a bad season this year before Gamble brings in a coach he actually wants in my opinion. They try to bring in Smith and compete this year it's just going to set the team back even further.



Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?

Yeah I was just dot connecting with Alex Smith...it's more likely someone like Matt Moore will be signed...and I agree and feel the same way that they should take their lumps, I also thought that was how they should've approached the season this year which they did a little bit....also remember Gamble has personal history with Rex from their fathers coaching together 20 years ago and has said he would love to have Rex as his coach...that said, I've also said several times that it's good situation for the GM to have Rex as a scape goat...I don't know if they will try to compete but if it means offloading Sanchez for Alex Smith I could see it, otherwise it's likely they'll just bring in a Matt Moore or Jason Campbell type guy on a 1 year insurance deal and have him compete with Sanchez/McElroy & possibly a mid round rook

IL DUCE
01-07-2013, 11:58 AM
I kind of don't expect them to keep Slauson around, but maybe they will. I'm kind of thinking that Moore gets a similar deal to Pouha last year and Ducasse ends up starting at LG. That's certainly where things seemed to be headed last year anyway.

If Tannenbaum were still here I'd agree...if Moore is cool with just going year by year at this point in his career I could see us bringing him back, but if he wants a pay day he needs to look elsewhere...Ducasse might even be cut unless we keep him for depth, and Slauson didn't like the whole rotation deal much so he may walk either way...I could see a cheap FA like Louis Vasquez coming in or drafting OG in the 3rd/4th round...

Also, our cap situation isn't as dire as everyone thinks...we could restructure deals of guys we know will be around like Harris or Mangold to alleviate some pressure but we will still be up to it...just need to draft impact rookie starters in the first 4 rounds and probably look to trade Cromartie for a 2nd or 3rd round pick...also can probably force Jacksonville to throw us a 5th for Tebow since the owner seems to covet him so badly...cutting Scott, Pace, E Smith, J Smith (and possibly Po'uha) and letting free agents like Greene, Keller, Thomas & Landry ( :crying: ) walk in free agency should also help

thetedginnshow
01-08-2013, 09:34 AM
I haven't seen everyone, but most of the top players I've watched and I looked at videos of the top 5 Seniors of all the top positions. Right now, these would be my top prospects.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE
3. Eric Fisher, OT
4. Tavon Austin, ATH
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB
6. John Simon, DE
7. Manti Te'o, ILB

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT
2. Dee Milliner, CB
3. Justin Hunter, WR

It would be nice to see us go after at least one of these game-breakers on offense. We need quite a bit more explosiveness.

I was giving Te'o the benefit of the doubt, but watching him more closely, he's not very good. Having trouble rounding out top tens, but I'll get to it eventually.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE
3. Eric Fisher, OT
4. Tavon Austin, ATH
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB
6. John Simon, DE
7. Montee Ball, RB

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT
2. Dee Milliner, CB
3. Kevin Minter, LB
4. Tyler Eifert, TE
5. Zach Ertz, TE
6. Taylor Lewan, OT
7. Justin Hunter, WR
8. Eddie Lacy, RB

derza222
01-08-2013, 04:23 PM
I was giving Te'o the benefit of the doubt, but watching him more closely, he's not very good. Having trouble rounding out top tens, but I'll get to it eventually.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG Good player, probably goes before the Jets' second and I'd be upset with taking a guard at 9. Maybe in a trade down?
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE Will be interesting to see if he ends up being worth taking at 9, or is available in the 2nd. Wide range right now.
3. Eric Fisher, OT Similar to Cooper. Would prefer more of a mauler at RT also.
4. Tavon Austin, ATH Exactly the kind of player the offense needs. Would be awesome if he's there in the second.
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB Solid mid-round RB option.
6. John Simon, DE Maybe a late day 2 early day 3 pass rusher if they ignore that spot early.
7. Montee Ball, RB Ditto Franklin.

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT Great player, won't be there.
2. Dee Milliner, CB Great player, don't want another corner. Pretty sure he won't be there at 9 either.
3. Kevin Minter, LB Haven't focused much on him. Bigger need than I'd like to admit, but I think we ignore it this season.
4. Tyler Eifert, TE Would be awesome in the second if Keller bounces.
5. Zach Ertz, TE Another solid day 2 option if Keller bounces. Prefer Eifert though.
6. Taylor Lewan, OT Will be interesting to see if he's considered a top 10 pick. Wouldn't be my favorite move, but I could live with it.
7. Justin Hunter, WR Not a huge Hunter guy honestly. Seems frail and not particularly tough. Talent is clear though.
8. Eddie Lacy, RBLike Lacy. Would prefer one of a few backs who I think will go later and be at least as good and better fits, but I wouldn't be unhappy with him on day 2.

Not much love for this class of pass rushers I see.

thetedginnshow
01-08-2013, 09:59 PM
They were just very uninspiring from what I've seen of them. Guys like Okafor looked slow, guys like Jordan looked fast but very undisciplined. Simon's the only one I've seen a ton of though, and I may be a little biased. But he's the best Ohio State defender I've seen in a long time. And sorry, this was just my list of top prospects for the class. They weren't necessarily tailored to what the Jets need and where we'll be picking. I guess I should look at that soon...

YotoJets007
01-08-2013, 10:04 PM
Mauling OT? Nah. If Jets actually want a pass happy offense then mauling OT is not an option.

gpngc
01-08-2013, 10:06 PM
I could see teams getting scared of Jarvis Jones' medical situation and the Jets jumping on him at 9.

As a pseudo Jet-fan that would be my ideal choice.

YotoJets007
01-08-2013, 10:09 PM
I won't touch Jarvis Jones until 4th or later round. He is slow, small and WIMP.


He has no room to bulk up.

thetedginnshow
01-08-2013, 11:30 PM
Not much love for this class of pass rushers I see.

I will say though that Bjoern Werner's jump off the snap is pretty unreal. He could be amazing, but I was just worried because even though I think he's always been the better pass rushing prospect between him and Tank, the fact that teams had to deal with the both of them might have skewed the perception on him. And, I just really rarely have seen FSU defenders live up to the hype in the pros in recent years, so I'm a bit skeptical. I'll just have to see more of him.

This is all preliminary stuff though. I'm sure everything will be much more fine-tuned closer to the draft...

Robcards
01-09-2013, 09:30 AM
I won't touch Jarvis Jones until 4th or later round. He is slow, small and WIMP.


He has no room to bulk up.

Thank God you're not in the Jets decision room in any form whatsoever.

derza222
01-09-2013, 10:06 AM
I think at this point barring a trade down the first pick is going to be a pass rusher, a QB, or an offensive tackle. Think that's the most likely to least likely of the three. Based on needs and where value seems to be at this point I just can't think of another spot that they go with. Obviously a lot can change at this point. I don't think tackle's a likely move either, but kind of a dark horse possibility.

Robcards
01-09-2013, 10:21 AM
I think at this point barring a trade down the first pick is going to be a pass rusher, a QB, or an offensive tackle. Think that's the most likely to least likely of the three. Based on needs and where value seems to be at this point I just can't think of another spot that they go with. Obviously a lot can change at this point. I don't think tackle's a likely move either, but kind of a dark horse possibility.

We're on the hook for a LOT of guaranteed money in D'Brickashaw's contract and you don't draft RTs in the top 10. Pass rusher or QB are basically the only positions they can go at 9, barring a trade.

thetedginnshow
01-09-2013, 10:32 AM
We're on the hook for a LOT of guaranteed money in D'Brickashaw's contract and you don't draft RTs in the top 10. Pass rusher or QB are basically the only positions they can go at 9, barring a trade.

Things have kind of changed from the old school of thought with the rookie contract scaling, though. Now it's much more reasonable to take virtually any position at that point. Still sort of unlikely that they do (though I think they should heavily consider it), but I wouldn't rule it out.

YotoJets007
01-09-2013, 11:32 AM
Thank God you're not in the Jets decision room in any form whatsoever.


Same to you.

derza222
01-09-2013, 11:32 AM
We're on the hook for a LOT of guaranteed money in D'Brickashaw's contract and you don't draft RTs in the top 10. Pass rusher or QB are basically the only positions they can go at 9, barring a trade.

I don't think it's likely at all, but as TTGS pointed out with the rookie cap it's not a ton of money tied up in the position so I think it's possible. Slim chance, but better than the rest of the positions on the team - it's a need and there will be tackles taken in the top 10 this year. I would still be very surprised if it's any position besides pass rusher or QB.

YotoJets007
01-09-2013, 11:35 AM
Things have kind of changed from the old school of thought with the rookie contract scaling, though. Now it's much more reasonable to take virtually any position at that point. Still sort of unlikely that they do (though I think they should heavily consider it), but I wouldn't rule it out.

Rookie scale may prevent the ridiculous ransom from top 10 prospects but the value of position has not changed this quick.


49ers only did it so far I know.

thetedginnshow
01-15-2013, 09:48 PM
Who are three prospects that would make your draft day?

Right now, I would say Johnathan Cooper, Zach Ertz, and John Simon.

CollegeFan
01-16-2013, 09:01 AM
Jets are basically in a rebuilding mode...too much cap...they may end up being the worst team in football this year. Too much turmoil

derza222
01-16-2013, 09:29 AM
I'm somewhat torn on how to start the rebuild. Not sure if I'd rather they take a shot on a franchise QB or just bolster the front 7 and offensive line this year.

YotoJets007
01-16-2013, 09:58 AM
Borrowing Billy Beane for one season. LOL. I just watched Moneyball.


Anyways, as everyone knows that Mark Sanchez will start for us again in 2013 season, as long as Rex Ryan's future is in the muddle, I can't see Jets taking franchise qb in the first round. However, it is all depend on who is GM.


-GM without strong background may go after versatile prospects. That way top prospects can play any schemes for this year and next year.

-GM that keeps system may go after fittable prospects.

-GM with WCO/4-3 background may go after prospects for future.



Personally, I like one who keeps the system because I could not wait until next year to change the system.

If Gm is happening to be hailed from WCO/4-3 system then Jets will have to trade down from 9th overall selection twice or thrice to get a bunch of picks. That way, GM could use first 4 rounds for future and the rest of the draft would be chosen by Rex Ryan. 5th round and later is technically practice squadders so it is better to let Ryan takes his men to play a specific roles for him during rookie season.

YotoJets007
01-16-2013, 10:10 AM
Crap.... Nathan Stanley's hand size is shorter than 9 inches. He has strong arm but he spins westward instead of southward. He is one of few qbs I have eyed on as a development qb over Greg McElroy.

thetedginnshow
01-16-2013, 03:05 PM
The more I watch of Gio Bernard, the more I fall in love with him. Also, the more I realize while Cooper is a great athlete and pretty good Guard, he isn't a great one. Probably not necessarily worthy of an early first rounder. As of now, my top 3 for us (not necessarily in the 1st) would be Gio Bernard, Cordarrelle Patterson, and John Simon.

derza222
01-16-2013, 03:34 PM
I do love Gio Bernard as well, my only concern with him is the medical. He's awesome though.

Patterson's an interesting name to bring up. On one hand I don't think WR is a need for 2013. But on the other hand if we're going with a two plus year rebuild he's got big time potential, would be an excellent complement to Hill long-term, and the offense desperately needs playmakers.

If they make a pick like that in the first it will be quite obvious that the GM isn't drafting to help save Rex's job...which I wouldn't mind. Probably the only way to draft offense in the first round unless they trade down or like a QB, and as much as we all want a pass rusher and a real QB the offense is the real problem and this QB class is highly questionable.

thetedginnshow
01-16-2013, 03:44 PM
I do love Gio Bernard as well, my only concern with him is the medical. He's awesome though.

Patterson's an interesting name to bring up. On one hand I don't think WR is a need for 2013. But on the other hand if we're going with a two plus year rebuild he's got big time potential, would be an excellent complement to Hill long-term, and the offense desperately needs playmakers.

If they make a pick like that in the first it will be quite obvious that the GM isn't drafting to help save Rex's job...which I wouldn't mind. Probably the only way to draft offense in the first round unless they trade down or like a QB, and as much as we all want a pass rusher and a real QB the offense is the real problem and this QB class is highly questionable.

I think what has gotten the Jets into trouble before is the short-sightedness of believing everything hinges on what happens that year. WR, to me, is just as much of a need as anything else. Kerley is truly a slot receiver. Hill did not necessarily instill any confidence. If it were possible, Holmes might be cut by now. Plus, if we're looking for an attacking style with explosiveness and unpredictability, who exactly of those guys makes you think of any of that? If I were them, I would be looking for guys at every skill position.

Could you tell me the medical history of Bernard? I was unaware he had an injury history. It's kind of hard to project with those guys though who will stay healthy. I also like Gillislee and Franklin, as those are other speedsters that feature well-rounded skill-sets. With RB, WR, and even TE, there are a lot of options that fit what it appears like we are interested in, so to me it would just be about finding the right fit at the right pick (and, of course, balancing that out with our tremendous amount of other needs).

The only positions I wouldn't consider drafting, unless we saw an influx of picks, would be FB, C, DT, CB, S, P, and K. But, I wouldn't touch QB. Based off of my personal opinion, there could be at least 5 QBs coming out next year that I believe are better than every one in this class.

Also, one thing to think about is that if we do bring aboard Idzik, we might just see Flynn as well.

YotoJets007
01-16-2013, 05:14 PM
The words around had that Gio Bernard's knee may be more damaging than we thought. He looked good for now but in long term, we don't know for sure.


The way I see if Jets did not do anything creatively.

LG, RG, OLB, OLB, SS, FS are immediately needs for starting duty.

QB, WR, CB, CB are needs as backup plan for 2014.


Obviously, we can't fill all holes with one draft.

If we postpone QB need then we could do the same way to WR because we may have different OC for 2014 if Rex Ryan is gone. Cross WR and QB.

Revis is dealing with new contract. Cromartie may be a cap casualty for 2014. Jets could draft one CB for now. CB need.

Jets could bring Bell back for another season at afford price. Cross SS.

LG can be found in 2nd round. Leave RG to late rounder, UDFA or Ducasse. Cross RG. LG need.

CB, LG, OLB, OLB are the most pressing needs for 2013 draft. Say, OLB, LG, CB, OLB for first 4 rounds. Next 3 could be RB, TE, FS. I can live with it.

derza222
01-16-2013, 06:39 PM
I think what has gotten the Jets into trouble before is the short-sightedness of believing everything hinges on what happens that year. WR, to me, is just as much of a need as anything else. Kerley is truly a slot receiver. Hill did not necessarily instill any confidence. If it were possible, Holmes might be cut by now. Plus, if we're looking for an attacking style with explosiveness and unpredictability, who exactly of those guys makes you think of any of that? If I were them, I would be looking for guys at every skill position.

Could you tell me the medical history of Bernard? I was unaware he had an injury history. It's kind of hard to project with those guys though who will stay healthy. I also like Gillislee and Franklin, as those are other speedsters that feature well-rounded skill-sets. With RB, WR, and even TE, there are a lot of options that fit what it appears like we are interested in, so to me it would just be about finding the right fit at the right pick (and, of course, balancing that out with our tremendous amount of other needs).

The only positions I wouldn't consider drafting, unless we saw an influx of picks, would be FB, C, DT, CB, S, P, and K. But, I wouldn't touch QB. Based off of my personal opinion, there could be at least 5 QBs coming out next year that I believe are better than every one in this class.

Also, one thing to think about is that if we do bring aboard Idzik, we might just see Flynn as well.

Kind of agreed on not thinking enough into the future. I do think that they haven't tried to really rebuild, but I don't think they tended to draft for need early. Generally they just draft poorly. Last year they didn't really draft for an immediate need with Coples, the year before that I'd argue Wilkerson was the BPA and the draft was before FA though he did fit a need, Wilson wasn't really a need pick either. I think we as fans generally assume they're going to draft for need more than they do, but that hasn't been a huge issue. I think the larger problem has been trading away picks and missing on others.

On Patterson I do think he would make sense in some ways. He could be BPA at #9 as well, kind of depends if there's a pass rusher worth taking left at that point. If you can get a Percy Harvin type of player it goes a long way towards having a functional offense. Get the ball into his hands short, hand offs, be creative, but let him develop as well. He can get deep some too and flashed abilities to catch the ball over the middle and in the intermediate area. Could be a really well rounded, star offensive player. Across from him if Hill develops he would be able to stretch the field and get deep from time to time as a number two. I do think that they should take offensive talent where they can get it, but finding a legit quarterback would go a long, long way.

Bernard I believe had knee injuries in high school that kind of came back in college. Redshirted due to a torn ACL which is why he's eligible despite being a sophomore and missed some games due to an injury this year. There's been a lot of smoke that his medical could be a serious issue for teams. We'll see. There's a ton of potential upgrades at RB in this draft for the Jets though. I like Joseph Randle a lot, would add a bunch of explosiveness. Mid-round guys like Robbie Rouse and Ray Graham could do some things, there's a bunch of other options too. I'd imagine they'll add someone at some point in the draft, and wouldn't be surprised if that guy started.

Flynn is definitely a possibility too, wonder what his cap number is like.

thetedginnshow
01-17-2013, 05:58 AM
Ah. That's a bummer about Bernard. He might have a short career then. I'm on board with your boy Randle though. He seems like he could be a good one, at least as a compliment to Powell. I am worried about his lean frame, but he seems like a tough guy.

I particularly liked this interview, where he proves to be the sort of guy I think every club should want, but especially ours:

S6zNHS4v2XI

All the RBs come with their fair share of question marks. I will say though that watching them all, if it isn't Bernard, Ray Graham is probably the most impressive RB in this class. He might even just flat out be the best. There's some things he does that are just outstanding. But he has quite the injury history himself. It's funny no one is really talking about Ball. Despite all the question marks, this is an impressive class with a lot of high-profile guys, so it would just be a question of finding the right one, but there are surely going to be some steals in that 2nd-4th round range.

Oddly enough, it would seem that at all the impact positions (RB, WR, TE, OLB) there appears to be a lot of explosive talent, which would lead you to believe that those would be the areas in the draft where we would at least want to dig to find steals in the middle rounds. Maybe use the 1st rounder (with the trade down always prayed for) on the O-Line. If it were up to me, blindly following a set order, I would go something like OG, OLB, RB, WR, and then TE.

derza222
01-17-2013, 08:10 AM
I love Randle's explosiveness. Think he could be a Jamaal Charles type guy if everything breaks right. Have Powell in the backfield to take carries and don't give him a huge load, but the way the league is right now I think to justify handing the ball off consistently you almost need to have a game breaker. He's also good out of the backfield and good in pass pro which are awesome traits to have. I'm at work so I can't see the interview, but I'll definitely catch that later.

I kind of like that order, I think they can find that RB even later than the third round, though. Not sure OLB value will be good in the second either, and I'm not sure the team can afford to take a guard in the top 10. If they don't go pass rusher, quarterback, or maybe Patterson I think they have to move down.

thetedginnshow
01-17-2013, 08:19 AM
I just can't seem to find a pass rusher I like of those top guys, but I'll do more researching. It's just really hard to project a 3-4 LB. Most of them though, to me, just weren't that impressive, of the guys being talked about. Jones was the only one that really ever flashed. The others didn't do much for me. But I'll look into Moore, Werner, Jordan, Okafor, and the LSU pair a little closer.

EDIT: One guy to maybe keep an eye on is David Bass for a later round. Apparently he's been too fast for everyone there at the East/West practices. And on a different front, maybe also look at S Cooper Taylor.

Robcards
01-17-2013, 08:46 AM
I just can't seem to find a pass rusher I like of those top guys, but I'll do more researching. It's just really hard to project a 3-4 LB. Most of them though, to me, just weren't that impressive, of the guys being talked about. Jones was the only one that really ever flashed. The others didn't do much for me. But I'll look into Moore, Werner, Jordan, Okafor, and the LSU pair a little closer.

EDIT: One guy to maybe keep an eye on is David Bass for a later round. Apparently he's been too fast for everyone there at the East/West practices. And on a different front, maybe also look at S Cooper Taylor.

What tape were you watching to not like what you saw from Damontre Moore? I've been in love with the guy since early last year, he's an absolute animal I'd love for him to be there at 9th. Mingo and Jordan could both be huge busts, just super athletes that need work. Werner wouldn't really fit as a 3-4 LB but luckily he's projected to be the first rusher off the board.

thetedginnshow
01-17-2013, 10:00 AM
What tape were you watching to not like what you saw from Damontre Moore? I've been in love with the guy since early last year, he's an absolute animal I'd love for him to be there at 9th. Mingo and Jordan could both be huge busts, just super athletes that need work. Werner wouldn't really fit as a 3-4 LB but luckily he's projected to be the first rusher off the board.

I'm not really sure. I was wrong. He looks, without question, the best on tape. I guess I was mostly turned off by the perceived motor questions that I had heard about, but the effort this year seems pretty clear and the A&M coaches even said he was noted for his effort. However, it is a bit troubling hearing early on in his career there that Von Miller had to motivate him to play. But maybe he's a changed man. There does appear to be something off about him though. And listening to him talk, he doesn't sound all too smart. But that stuff might not be a problem, so long as he keeps the effort up. I will say though that if he checks out, and because he will be impressive at the combine, he won't be there at our pick. That was part of the issue I took with going OLB in the 1st in the first place. There's possibly now four 3-4 teams in front of us, and so even if there were two top 3-4 OLB prospects there, they would almost assuredly be taken.

As a side-note, Jarvis Jones may be good at rushing the passer, but he doesn't seem very good at doing anything else. Provided he's healthy, though, he still might fit the bill for being an elite pass rusher. Not quite sure though. On the field, he doesn't seem all too smart. But, maybe all of this, plus some medical question marks, will send him right into the Jets' arms, where Rex can coach him into a beast...

thetedginnshow
01-17-2013, 10:27 AM
On a different front, if we have to take a mid-round QB to develop, I wouldn't be opposed to Colby Cameron. He only started for one full year, but I like his poise, I like his athleticism, and I think he has the arm to make any throw. If he came along with his top guy, Quinton Patton, that would be even better.

derza222
01-17-2013, 06:38 PM
I just can't seem to find a pass rusher I like of those top guys, but I'll do more researching. It's just really hard to project a 3-4 LB. Most of them though, to me, just weren't that impressive, of the guys being talked about. Jones was the only one that really ever flashed. The others didn't do much for me. But I'll look into Moore, Werner, Jordan, Okafor, and the LSU pair a little closer.

EDIT: One guy to maybe keep an eye on is David Bass for a later round. Apparently he's been too fast for everyone there at the East/West practices. And on a different front, maybe also look at S Cooper Taylor.

Yeah it's tough, the class is solid though. Pass rushers are more about projection than much else though at this point, and the defensive coaching staff here is solid. As long as you get a guy who wants it and has the tools I think they'll be okay.

You've got a guy like Jordan who has great athleticism, flexibility, and length, a good motor, frame to add bulk, is more stout than you'd think, has the versatility to drop into coverage, and stood up in college. He's raw rushing the passer but has all the tools you could ask for and has only been playing defense for three years.

Or a guy like Mingo who has great athleticism as well, violent hands, and good motor. Again needs to add weight, struggles a little to bend and run the arc, but he's got a lot to work with and is a bit younger than Jordan. Played against better competition though.

Moore you already came around on, and I haven't watched much of Werner or Okafor. Not a big Montgomery guy either. The other one is Ansah, who has great straight line speed, is extremely strong, and looks comfortable standing up. New to football but an unreal athlete, has played inside at BYU which will help a lot with his technique, and is getting JPP comparisons for a reason.

I just have a feeling somebody from that group will emerge. The same could apply to quarterbacks too. Maybe they go receiver or move down for a lineman. Not sure, but there are a lot of pass rushers in this class and it's a need so I could see it being likely.

thetedginnshow
01-17-2013, 07:45 PM
I just think that would be a lot of coaching up for a top ten pick. Those guys don't really impress me when I watch them. I watched plenty of LSU and the only player on their defense that I liked was Minter. Jordan just doesn't really have the frame to get bigger, and as is he gets washed out all the time on plays. I feel like he lacks a real edge to be a great pass rusher. He could be a decent, well-rounded OLB, but we don't really need another Pace.

Honestly, I just don't see a lot there that early. I will hope for a rise from a skill position player. Of course, the unfortunate thing is that the few teams before us all have very similar needs to us. It would seem that especially with the strength of the draft in the middle rounds and all our needs, to me, the clear-cut best option would be to trade down. But I call for trading down pretty much every year.

derza222
01-17-2013, 09:02 PM
I dunno that I agree about Jordan. He has a huge frame to put weight on, and when I've watched him he's pretty stout. Plus he's an elite athlete, way better than Pace. As far as the coaching for a top 10 pick, I don't think it's a huge deal. You look at a guy like Aldon Smith who had a much more productive first year in college than second year, or JPP who was pretty raw (though not quite a top 10 pick) and they've both found a lot of success, and early. I think the position is more about finding traits and developing guys, but that's just me.

I do agree about trading down being ideal, but I call for it every year also and it's just beginning to feel pointless.

Power
01-18-2013, 01:53 AM
trading down year for sure

thetedginnshow
01-18-2013, 03:10 AM
I dunno that I agree about Jordan. He has a huge frame to put weight on, and when I've watched him he's pretty stout. Plus he's an elite athlete, way better than Pace. As far as the coaching for a top 10 pick, I don't think it's a huge deal. You look at a guy like Aldon Smith who had a much more productive first year in college than second year, or JPP who was pretty raw (though not quite a top 10 pick) and they've both found a lot of success, and early. I think the position is more about finding traits and developing guys, but that's just me.

I do agree about trading down being ideal, but I call for it every year also and it's just beginning to feel pointless.

I do agree with you to some extent. There's just something I look for in a player when watching them. It's something undefinable that helps them leap off the screen. Alongside that, I like at their work ethic and what I can gather from interviews. But that's mainly with guys I've had the pleasure of watching a lot of their games. That's why people like Jordan and Mingo, who I've seen plenty of, I grade a little more harshly. But some of these prospects I didn't see a lot of, so then when I try to watch videos of them where I'm specifically only watching to see what they do, it sort of makes things more difficult because I can't go off of my natural instinct. And Jordan has a very lean frame, and is especially skinny in his lower body, so I would disagree that he has the frame to put on more weight (the right kind of weight, anyway). I seriously would rather us take Simon at #9 than either of those guys. But I don't know. I will still put faith in Rex and believe that if they have the desire (which I'm not positive of), he can make anyone great.

derza222
01-18-2013, 08:05 AM
Yeah, I get that you're looking for certain things when you're looking at a guy. I just tend to look at traits and see if I think they project. In terms of the Jets though, I don't think they need a guy who's that developed. Dunbar can help a lot with pass rushing technique, the staff is pretty solid.

In terms of Jordan, I think we're defining frame differently. He doesn't have particularly broad shoulders but he's a huge (6'6, 6'7) guy with really long arms and he's unbelievably skinny. If you just look at pictures there he's not close to maxed out in terms of the weight he can carry. He could easily add 15, 20 pounds to get up to that 255-260 range in his arms, core, or legs. And his functional strength is pretty good right now. I agree he has to add weight, but I don't think he's got a maxed out frame. Whether or not he's able to keep on weight, an issue I know Maybin had, is a different issue and I really have no idea.

Also I would've mentioned this regardless of whether we were discussing Jordan, but Scott has the Jets taking him in his new mock. Interesting that he has them passing on Mingo, who he has ranked higher.

YotoJets007
01-18-2013, 10:51 AM
I am concerning about drafting OLB in the 1st round because what if Rex Ryan is axed and 4-3 dude is hired as new HC for 2014. Jordan can play OLB like in 4-3 but what about others?

If new GM wants pass rusher in the first round then it has to be his decision on which one. He has to get sense of pass rusher's ability to do both 4-3 or 3-4. Converting Jordan to 4-3 OLB is a waste of pick.

Werner or Ansah may make sense.

derza222
01-18-2013, 12:14 PM
It's a non-issue in my eyes. In a switch to the 4-3 they'd need a pass rushing end anyway, as I presume Wilkerson would kick inside and Coples would play left end. So if they take a 3-4 OLB in the first and switch schemes next year they'll probably pay 4-3 end with a guy like Jordan potentially playing 4-3 OLB, but maybe not.

YotoJets007
01-18-2013, 01:49 PM
That "MAYBE" is an issue. What if Jordan turns out OLB in 4-3 and we have to draft a pass rusher instead of a quarterback in the first round of next year's draft.

thetedginnshow
01-18-2013, 02:04 PM
Yeah, I get that you're looking for certain things when you're looking at a guy. I just tend to look at traits and see if I think they project. In terms of the Jets though, I don't think they need a guy who's that developed. Dunbar can help a lot with pass rushing technique, the staff is pretty solid.

In terms of Jordan, I think we're defining frame differently. He doesn't have particularly broad shoulders but he's a huge (6'6, 6'7) guy with really long arms and he's unbelievably skinny. If you just look at pictures there he's not close to maxed out in terms of the weight he can carry. He could easily add 15, 20 pounds to get up to that 255-260 range in his arms, core, or legs. And his functional strength is pretty good right now. I agree he has to add weight, but I don't think he's got a maxed out frame. Whether or not he's able to keep on weight, an issue I know Maybin had, is a different issue and I really have no idea.

Also I would've mentioned this regardless of whether we were discussing Jordan, but Scott has the Jets taking him in his new mock. Interesting that he has them passing on Mingo, who he has ranked higher.

I do think we have different beliefs on how people can put on weight. From what I've seen, when your frame is that small and your lower body is that small, yes, like anyone, you can add muscle, but your mass will not really do you any good. If he had a bigger lower body but what the same exact weight as he is now, he wouldn't have to put on any weight at all. The problem is that because he's so long and lanky, even with added weight, he's not going to be able to get low enough to have an advantage getting around the edge, and without the big lower body, he can't really get under linemen and drive them back. That's how I see it anyway. I guess we'll see. I'd just rather we see on someone else's team.

derza222
01-18-2013, 02:22 PM
To keep this brief, I think the lack of weight in his lower body is a different point altogether and entirely valid. I'm sure he'll come to the combine heavier than he played at in college, it'll be interesting to see where he carries it and how well he moves with it. Probably less of an issue than if he was playing with his hand down, but still a concern.

This ended up more about Jordan than I intended. I like him a lot and we'll see what happens with him, but obviously he's not a flawless prospect. Still, I think you're looking for more polish from a pass rusher than I think we need or will go after. I'm not sure it'll happen, but too hard to dismiss. And we'd all be happy with a trade down.

Iamcanadian
01-18-2013, 03:07 PM
I would think the Jets need to concentrate on offense in the draft, WR's in particular. If your not going to give Sanchez a #1 WR, then I see another long season coming for the Jets. I think you need a change of pace RB as well.
Your defense is solid if Revis is healthy but your offense is the pits.

derza222
01-18-2013, 03:47 PM
Agreed the offense needs a lot more work than the defense. That said, if it's a multiple year rebuild (which I think it should be) I think you take the better players right now. Offense would be ideal but I wouldn't pass up a better defensive player who has a path to a starting job in a year or two.

Whether or not they go WR kind of depends on whether or not Holmes is brought back and what Idzik thinks of Hill. If Holmes returns and they like Hill it's not really a priority IMO.

I do hope Sanchez doesn't touch the ball next year, so giving him a #1 WR is far from a priority in my eyes. An explosive RB or one who at least can get more yardage than what's blocked (and catch the ball out of the backfield) would be ideal as well. Tight end will likely be a need with Keller as a FA.

thetedginnshow
01-20-2013, 08:36 AM
With my dislike for a lot of the top guys, I've been hunting for mid-round OLBs. I found my gem in Travis Long, out of WSU. I hate WSU, so I generally only watch the UW games, but now I sort of regret that. He's really good. He played as a down lineman and as a LB, as they moved him around a lot, so he's got plenty of experience in a 3-4 set-up. He has the hips and the technique to get around the edge standing up. He has an impressive array of pass-rushing moves, he's stout against the run, great motor, solid closing in on the QB (also, if Chase Thomas is ever brought up, he's horribly slow and there's no real comparison in my mind). And even better, he played for a perennial loser, so no worries there! He should be around in the 4th or 5th, depending on how he tests out (not sure if he'll be invited to the combine). I'm sort of hoping Idzik has been paying attention to the local scene.

derza222
01-20-2013, 08:45 AM
I know you like Simon too, do you like him as an OLB? May be around in the third...fourth even.

thetedginnshow
01-20-2013, 09:19 AM
Well, I found someone much better. Jamie Collins out of Southern Miss. He's essentially Dion Jordan if he knew how to play football. In high-school he was a QB, played a small amount of time at Safety, but has been a DE/LB for most of his time in college. Electric off the edge. His closing speed on the QB is up there with Jordan, Mingo, and Werner. He has a 97-yard INT return to his name. Hearing his coach talk about him just makes him seem even more impressive with all the things they had him do. Very natural in coverage. He wouldn't be the best against the run, but that isn't really why you draft a 3-4 OLB anyway. With some bulk I think he could be serviceable. Solid motor. He played Special Teams too and appeared to be one of the first people down the field almost every time, so that's another thing to his credit. He might end up being a 2nd rounder by the time all is said and done, but he'd be worth it.

thetedginnshow
01-20-2013, 09:22 AM
I know you like Simon too, do you like him as an OLB? May be around in the third...fourth even.

Are you asking if I like Simon as an OLB? In a 3-4, I only like Simon as an OLB. I would be very surprised if he was available that late, but if he was, then that'd be a no-brainer to me. He's incredible.

derza222
01-20-2013, 10:43 AM
Collins looked pretty good against Nebraska. I don't like him as much as I like Jordan, but if you're comparing the value of taking Jordan at 9 versus taking an offensive player at 9 or trading down and taking Collins later I think that's the better option. Better build for the position, not as stout despite that though but did a better job getting off of blocks. Motor actually didn't really impress me but I wouldn't say it was bad, ability to drop into coverage wasn't as good as Jordan either but good enough for a 3-4 OLB and certainly will have an easier time transitioning to that position than most. Probably a good schematic fit. I'd be down for drafting him. Wonder what he comes into the combine at. Obviously heavier than Jordan who was playing at like 227. My one concern with him, and I know you mentioned his issues against the run, is that he doesn't look like he'll be able to set the edge all that well and I think that's pretty important in Rex's defense. Particularly with Coples likely starting at the 5 tech and not being the most stout for that position either. They bring in the wrong guys and the defense will just get run over all game.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the OLB position this offseason. Not much cap space to go out and get a starter. Thomas is likely gone/retiring, and Pace will be cut. McIntyre started a bunch this season though. Do they bring back Pace on the cheap and start him, start McIntyre, bring in a FA, some combo of those 3, or do they just draft two guys? Almost regardless of where they draft someone they'll be getting an athleticism upgrade, but an experience downgrade obviously. Rex has had success plugging guys in and having the defense not miss a beat, but I wonder if they're going to be losing too many guys for that to work this season.

thetedginnshow
01-20-2013, 11:57 AM
Actually, the more I look at him, the more I realize Simon is probably not a good fit for the 3-4. I just love him. Nathan Williams is probably a much better fit, but he's not anything exceptional.

derza222
01-20-2013, 12:11 PM
Yeah, after watching one (impressive) game against Nebraska I don't particularly like Simon as a fit for the Jets. Really good, technically sound player but I don't think he looks great in space or changing directions. Think he'd be better off in a 4-3. Could maybe see him fit with a team like Pittsburgh too.

thetedginnshow
01-20-2013, 12:17 PM
He's also really slow off the snap, which I never noticed before. But I think he'll be good if he gets into the right situation.

I'll be posting my top 3 by position sometime today. Still working on the offense. It's going to be specifically for our team. I won't do C, NT, FB, K, and P because the first one we don't need, NT I don't see enough viable prospects for, and the last three I just don't know enough about.

derza222
01-20-2013, 12:32 PM
Good leverage, hand use, just a natural pass rusher. Was slow off the ball at points. Pretty good against the run too.

Long looked pretty stout, able to keep the edge which I think is prioritized in this defense, flashed some movement skills. Kind of reminded me of the OLB's we have and want to replace, maybe a bit more athleticism though. Some work with Dunbar on his pass rushing repertoire could work though, had a nice spin for his sack.

Wonder what we're going to do about FB. I know Philly tended to use a lot of single back sets, but they also had two on the roster at the end of the season. Will be interesting. I'm also thinking maybe McKnight gets a shot, the more wide open style of offense should suit him better than what was being run before.

YotoJets007
01-20-2013, 01:18 PM
Well, I found someone much better. Jamie Collins out of Southern Miss. He's essentially Dion Jordan if he knew how to play football. In high-school he was a QB, played a small amount of time at Safety, but has been a DE/LB for most of his time in college. Electric off the edge. His closing speed on the QB is up there with Jordan, Mingo, and Werner. He has a 97-yard INT return to his name. Hearing his coach talk about him just makes him seem even more impressive with all the things they had him do. Very natural in coverage. He wouldn't be the best against the run, but that isn't really why you draft a 3-4 OLB anyway. With some bulk I think he could be serviceable. Solid motor. He played Special Teams too and appeared to be one of the first people down the field almost every time, so that's another thing to his credit. He might end up being a 2nd rounder by the time all is said and done, but he'd be worth it.


Collins is 2 years older. He won't bulk up to 250ish. Sitting at about 230. Von Miller type OLB.

Travis Long, Eric Martin, David Bass among with Chase Thomas should be looked at if we don't select OLB in the first round.


About QB situation. What the hell can we do about it? Mornhinweg stays for one season or 3 years. I think I am going to pass on qb this year.

YotoJets007
01-20-2013, 01:21 PM
Good leverage, hand use, just a natural pass rusher. Was slow off the ball at points. Pretty good against the run too.

Long looked pretty stout, able to keep the edge which I think is prioritized in this defense, flashed some movement skills. Kind of reminded me of the OLB's we have and want to replace, maybe a bit more athleticism though. Some work with Dunbar on his pass rushing repertoire could work though, had a nice spin for his sack.

Wonder what we're going to do about FB. I know Philly tended to use a lot of single back sets, but they also had two on the roster at the end of the season. Will be interesting. I'm also thinking maybe McKnight gets a shot, the more wide open style of offense should suit him better than what was being run before.


FB that can catch like 49ers have done. Rex Burkhead? Zach Line? Both are big RB that can fit as FB at next level.

derza222
01-20-2013, 08:21 PM
Pretty good class of TE's too if they elect not to retain Keller. Not particularly that elite guy at the top but Eifert and Ertz are obviously solid, Escobar looks like he can really move in highlights though I haven't seen any full games, Travis Kelce is a very good blocker for a TE and pretty sure handed/athletic enough, and Dion Sims is somebody I haven't seen but sounds like would fit.

YotoJets007
01-21-2013, 11:01 AM
Collins is 2 years older. He won't bulk up to 250ish. Sitting at about 230. Von Miller type OLB.

Travis Long, Eric Martin, David Bass among with Chase Thomas should be looked at if we don't select OLB in the first round.


About QB situation. What the hell can we do about it? Mornhinweg stays for one season or 3 years. I think I am going to pass on qb this year.



Collins is heavier than Thomas. :tomatoes:

Collins must be a good lean while Thomas is a balloon guy.

thetedginnshow
01-21-2013, 01:42 PM
QB
1. Geno Smith - He has an awfully long wind-up. That's about all I hate about him though. Really, he just reminds me of Byron Leftwich in general, which isn't the worst thing, considering this QB class.
2. Zac Dysert - I am going to hold it against him that his record was so bad. His supporting cast was awful, but a winner probably would have made them a little better. He's got a little bit of everything though. Not sure how he is on the deep ball. He seems to have marginal arm strength. But beyond that, he seems to be a very poor man's Big Ben. Who would that be? Tarvaris?
3. Ryan Nassib - He makes some really awful throws, but I think he has all the tools there. He would take quite a while to make good, though.

RB
1. Mike Gillislee - He has it all. I don't trust Florida players by and large to stay healthy, but with pretty much every RB in this class appearing as an injury risk to me, I can't hold that against him. He has great patience, explosiveness, decisiveness, and vision. His blocking ability might be the best of all the backs in the class. Very natural hands. He's physical when he has to be and has the speed to get away from anyone. Really, he almost seems like Percy Harvin the RB. But he reminds me a lot of a smaller Arian Foster (which, probably not coincidentally, is his favorite RB).
2. Ray Graham - I love him. He's from New Jersey, too. Great moves in the box. He might have the best vision of any of them. He just seems to know something everyone else doesn't. Great hands and the ability to break away. Could be a better blocker, but he tries, and you can't expect much from someone that small. Needs to hang onto the ball, too. But I like his approach to the game.
3. Gio Bernard - I only know 3 other Gio's in my life: one is very successful, one is doing well, and the other was a sweet boss in Pokemon. So I think he will be good as well. He's had a slew of injuries, but of the faster backs, he's just so much better, IMO, than the rest, that I have to put him here. Great vision, quick, good hands, but could be a better blocker.

WR
1. DeAndre Hopkins - Great hands and solid route-running. I can't tell how fast he actually is, but he seems reasonably quick.
2. Stedman Bailey - Runs good routes, has good hands, quick, and just always seems to be open. Very smart receiver.
3. Quinton Patton - Great route-runner, nice hands, and pretty quick. Perfect for the WCO.

TE
1. Zach Ertz - Reminds me of Jason Witten. Very fierce blocker with solid athleticism and pretty good hands. I think he's a much better prospect than Fleener was.
2. Gavin Escobar - He can stretch the field a little. Good athleticism and could be a very nice red-zone threat.
3. Travis Kelce - He can do a little bit of everything. He's no world-beater, but he could be in the same breath as the Owen Daniels' of the world. Not the greatest of blockers, but very reliable hands.

OT
1. Luke Joeckel - All-Pro caliber LT. But that's why we won't be able to get him.
2. Eric Fisher - Very athletic, nimble guy. For the WCO, his pass protection would serve to be top-notch.
3. Lane Johnson - Just another good one from Oklahoma.

OG
1. Jonathan Cooper - Incredible athlete for his size. He isn't perfect, but he's great in the run game. He really drives guys back. Pass pro could use some work, but he isn't bad by any means. He has all the tools to be special.
2. Chance Warmack - I think he's very overrated. I don't ever remember an Alabama lineman being good, and I think he just falls right in line with them. He isn't bad, but he's just sooo fat and while marginally athletic, he puts himself out of place a lot. He's just a big guy. But I could see him being passable more often than not.
3. Larry Warford - I had Pugh here off a guess, but I will just go back to what I originally believed. To me, he looked almost as good as Warmack. He's very athletic for his size. He actually reminds me a lot of Brandon Moore.

DE
1. Star Lotulelei - Incredible athlete. Very quick and good with his hands. Pretty smart, too.
2. Sheldon Richardson - Also very quick. Much more in the mold of the J.J. Watt sort of 3-4 DE.
3. Ezekiel Ansah - Great athlete, great motor, and he's only getting better.

OLB
1. Alex Okafor - Okay, I was very mistaken. For some reason, I was of the belief Okafor didn't have the desirable body and hips to be a 3-4 OLB, but then I see him standing up for the half the plays on defense. So I was wrong. He isn't great against the run and he'd be passable against the pass (punny), but he would make his money as a pass rusher, which is what we need. He's fierce, he's quick off the line, he's a playmaker, and he's relentless. And, he's been tearing it up in the post-season here. Really, considering where we're at and thinking about what could have the greatest impact on our team, he should probably be our first round selection.
2. Damontre Moore - What sets him apart is how great he is against the run. More in the Woodley mold of OLBs, but he isn't quite the same pass rusher. He's a decent pass rusher, but he's not especially explosive and doesn't have the best of instincts. But he has a good motor and plays his part well. Pretty much Calvin Pace.
3. Jamie Collins - Great motor, quick off the snap, former QB, terrific in coverage. I love all that he did for that program and how highly they speak of him. He could be a terror off the edge.

ILB
1. Kevin Minter - Incredible tackler that fights through traffic well. He'd just be a solid ILB.
2. Greg Blair - Brother of Pitt great DeJuan Blair. Very athletic, jack-of-all-trades.
3. A.J. Klein - Just a monster in the middle. Great tackler.

CB
1. Dee Milliner - Best CB in the draft. He can do a little bit of everything. He's quick, great instincts, and physical. Everything I'd want in a CB.
2. Micah Hyde - Scott has him as a Safety. I'm not sure why. He has incredible ball skills and he's pretty quick. A good, solid cover corner.
3. Jordan Poyer - Quick with great instincts. Maybe more of a nickel but I think he could be a weakside corner.

S
1. Duke Williams - Fastest Safety in the draft. Good in coverage and has a little bit of everything. He runs himself out of plays on occasion, though.
2. D.J. Swearinger - Big thumper, enforcer type. He's passable in coverage, but he would make his money in the box.
3. Cooper Taylor - Big, but rangy and could be great covering those TEs we'll have to deal with for the next decade.

thetedginnshow
01-22-2013, 03:23 AM
Not that this is a position of need, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of good, serviceable cornerbacks come out of this class. If they spent a late round pick on one, I wouldn't hate it. RB, WR, TE, and CB seem to have the most depth. If we don't address all three of those offensive positions, it would be a shame.

...But on that note, I see from Scott's notes that it mentions the Jets looking at Stepfan Taylor. Many other sources say the Jets had a lot of people talking to him as well. That would be an average pick. He just doesn't have that breakaway speed, but he has all the necessary tools to play in the WCO and if they look at his physical stature, they might fall in love. He actually reminds me a lot of Thomas Jones in every way imaginable. And while that wouldn't be a bad pick, I think there are better guys you can get to really put a defense on their heels, rather than having a guy to get quiet 1,000-yard seasons every year. He's nothing more than an average back in my eyes and certainly not dynamic... like Johnathan Franklin, who has also received some praise. I just worry that guys like him, Ellington, and Randle benefited too much from the wide-open read option attacks they were a part of and might not be quite what they're billed up as. But, here's hoping he's good, and if he is, that he's good on the Jets.

YotoJets007
01-22-2013, 10:57 AM
Stepfan Taylor is a old school RB so he won't fit in the system Rex Ryan wants to have. However, Jets will need a good run game to control a game. Taylor can go out and catch some football. Maybe line him up at FB with dynamic RB in the backfield at the same time.

YotoJets007
01-22-2013, 11:00 AM
I won't pay any attention to Senior Bowl practices until Wednesday or Thursday but I am kind of disappointed in Ryan Nassib's mechanic that does not allow him to throw a good deep bomb. 10 hand size and strong arm? What a waste.

YotoJets007
01-22-2013, 11:06 AM
2nd round for LG?

Brian Winters, Dallas Green, Kyle Long, or Larry Warfold.

I think I rather to sign Matt Slauson and draft another stud skill prospect in 2nd.

YotoJets007
01-22-2013, 05:32 PM
Walter Stewart is cleared for football. Him and D.J. Hayden would be greater stories if they become starting calibers for Jets.

I kind of wish Jets did not draft Quinton Coples last year so Datone Jones could be ours this year. Damn.

Robcards
01-23-2013, 12:38 AM
I won't pay any attention to Senior Bowl practices until Wednesday or Thursday but I am kind of disappointed in Ryan Nassib's mechanic that does not allow him to throw a good deep bomb. 10 hand size and strong arm? What a waste.

Nassib looks blah, I hope the bills take him. Zac Dysert looks almost undraftable, I don't see what the hype is with him. Glennon looks like Peyton manning next to those guys lol

GET LOOSE
01-23-2013, 03:41 PM
Wasn't feeling any of the qbs at the senior bowl but I had no expectations for any of them anyway. But I agree Glennon is at least tolerable the other guys look horrible

GET LOOSE
01-23-2013, 07:59 PM
I hear we're interested in Tyrann Mathieu. Wouldn't mind picking him up in the 4th or 5th round and seeing what he can do. Hes got play making potential and always seems to be around the ball

derza222
01-23-2013, 08:07 PM
I think they're showing interest in a lot of people at this point. Mathieu would make sense in the mid-late rounds as a third or fourth corner depending on whether or not they move anyone and maybe playing some safety.

Saw they expressed interest in Denard Robinson too. Would prefer him as a running back to as a receiver and even then I'm concerned he won't offer much as a pass blocker.

thetedginnshow
01-24-2013, 01:04 AM
I would like to believe this is them just doing their "due diligence". Every prospect I've seen them tied to has, in my mind, huge question marks. I would like to believe they're not drafting any of them.

YotoJets007
01-24-2013, 09:51 AM
Senior Bowl participants are good for first 3 rounds and Jets have 3 picks during this span so I believe Jets will get at least 1 of them.

If Jets let Slauson walk then WVA Madsen or California Schwenke should be a Jet for a right pick. Granted, both are struggling as G but I willingly let either start RG. Mangold has dealing with various injuries so I would like to have another solid center on the roster.

derza222
01-25-2013, 12:37 PM
Agree with you Yoto, would be nice to have a guard who can swing to play center on the roster. Travis Frederick, maybe.

Apparently the Jets spent a ton of time with Glennon at the Senior Bowl. Don't know why they'd let that get out if they were actually interested, though.

YotoJets007
01-25-2013, 04:01 PM
I am not sure about Glennon playing WCO but is it possible that Mornhinweg will modify WCO to WCO spread?

YotoJets007
01-25-2013, 07:57 PM
Ryan Nassib is kind of reminding me of Drew Brees. He needs to fix his throwing mechanic. Loosening arm action may help him throw better football. If all of his arm strength comes from rigid muscle pressure then he is no good to me.

Since Jets may seek for another veteran qb to compete with Mark Sanchez who obviously will stay with us, I would gamble on Ryan Nassib for right value to replace Greg McElroy on the qb depth.

Robcards
01-25-2013, 11:17 PM
Ryan Nassib is kind of reminding me of Drew Brees. He needs to fix his throwing mechanic. Loosening arm action may help him throw better football. If all of his arm strength comes from rigid muscle pressure then he is no good to me.

Since Jets may seek for another veteran qb to compete with Mark Sanchez who obviously will stay with us, I would gamble on Ryan Nassib for right value to replace Greg McElroy on the qb depth.

Ugh. What in the world even comes close to drew Brees about Ryan Nassib? Watching him at senior bowl practice next to Glennon he looks horrific. I wouldn't take him before round 4, he's way overhyped and overrated.

derza222
01-26-2013, 01:28 PM
Yeah I don't see it with Nassib either. Far from my favorite QB option. Part of me wouldn't mind if they waited until next year and just shored up the fronts on both sides of the ball.

YotoJets007
01-29-2013, 09:47 AM
Since Matt Barkley knows WCO well, he could be a good use as 2nd round pick. I think Mayock and co will talk about him a lot during the combine week.

thetedginnshow
01-29-2013, 11:08 AM
“We’re going to discuss exactly what they want in their players and it may be a little bit different than what we’ve had before and that will give use direction heading into the draft and also free agency. But we’re definitely going to look to add some playmakers to our offense,” Bradway told me.

“We need to generate offense — offense is what the league is about now. We have some young guys that have to develop and they can’t fail, and we’re going hard to get those kids developed. But we’re going to be a team — going forward — that is going to look to the draft and supplement in free agency. We have to keep our eye on those explosive playmakers, guys that get chunks of yards and score points.”

I mean, this was probably obvious, but it's good to see things will mainly go through the draft (rather than free agency like before) and that we're really looking to get playmakers on offense. So expect players to be drafted at virtually every hole on offense we currently have.

derza222
01-29-2013, 11:15 AM
Yeah, I liked that quote. Makes me wonder if they're seriously interested in upgrading skill spots. Still think Cordarrelle Patterson is a sleeper to go at #9.

Don't know if there are enough draft picks to choose players at virtually every hole the Jets currently have on offense lol.

YotoJets007
01-29-2013, 11:43 AM
I mean, this was probably obvious, but it's good to see things will mainly go through the draft (rather than free agency like before) and that we're really looking to get playmakers on offense. So expect players to be drafted at virtually every hole on offense we currently have.


well, playmakers should be coming from draft not free agency. Patterson and Hopkins are ideal for a 1st round pick.


So are Bailey, Patton, Wheaton, Dobson, few players for 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Robcards
02-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Yeah, I liked that quote. Makes me wonder if they're seriously interested in upgrading skill spots. Still think Cordarrelle Patterson is a sleeper to go at #9.

Don't know if there are enough draft picks to choose players at virtually every hole the Jets currently have on offense lol.

So are we already giving up on Hill then? Don't see how we can use a 1st round pick on a WR when we have holes at every other position but have 2 promising young WRs in Kerley and Hill, and a guy we can't cut until 2014 pretty much. Sooo many holes at other spots, we need to accumulate as many picks as possible. If we can get 49ers 1st and 2nd for Revis let's do it to it, or jags/chiefs 2nd and 3rd would effectively be the same thing

derza222
02-17-2013, 09:50 PM
Kerley is a slot WR, Hill is far from a sure thing and not a WCO fit, the Jets can easily cut Holmes now, and should be looking to build a long-term team not a team for 2013 anyway. The offense flat out lacks playmakers, period. Obviously there is no QB but unless they fall in love with a guy that's not an option at 9. No running backs or tight ends worth the pick, would be surprised to see a guard, looks like they're running with Howard next year so that eliminates tackle.

To me, the offense needs someone defenses have to gameplan to stop. A gamebreaker. Patterson is the most obvious option for that in the draft right now IMO. I'm sure we'll see other guys end up being studs later in the league, but nobody else who's a realistic option at 9 fits that mold IMO. Plus as a big guy who's dynamic with the ball in his hands he's a perfect WCO fit and a great complement to Hill long-term.

Now I don't think they have to draft him, but I absolutely think he should be in the mix. It's pretty much the only offensive pick that makes sense if you don't think there's a QB worth taking at 9. Other than that you're looking at what, whichever pass rusher is left? What if they don't like their options there after a few guys come off the board? All the guys who will be there at 9 have warts anyway and the offense is way worse than the defense. Who else, Kenny Vaccaro or is it just pass rusher or bust? I just think people have to be open minded in terms of the draft and 2013 needs are basically irrelevant anyway because the 2013 Jets are probably going to be bad. They have to think long-term.

I see the benefits to trading Revis too, but I wouldn't be so quick to do it.

Robcards
02-18-2013, 01:33 PM
Honestly I'm starting to lean towards Chance Warmack at 9. Would fill a big need and since the top 10 is weak as hell why not take a guard? Not buying into the anti-Damontre hype either, the guy is a beast and if he's there at 9 the Jets have got to take him.

I also don't think releasing Santonio is 'easy' like you're making it sound. Pretty sure we'd take an enormous cap hit if we cut him, more than what his salary is worth. Might as well keep him for 2013 and cut him next year when the hit isn't anywhere near as astronomical.

derza222
02-18-2013, 02:28 PM
Warmack is good, but I'm not sure the drop off from him to someone who will be available at the top of round 2 (Travis Frederick, Larry Warford) is that dramatic. Hell, there was just a great article about how Ducasse and Slauson were essentially equivalent in terms of how the offense produced when they were on the field. If they re-sign Moore to a similar deal to what Pouha got last year and roll with Ducasse at LG it's not even a need. I also tend to think the draft will go more similarly to prior years. Guards don't go top 10. DeCastro was supposed to be the best guard in years and went in the twenties. Plus some may like Cooper better than Warmack. I just don't see a guard going top 10 and immediately making elite guard money. We'll see though.

Moore I think I'd like. When we start to get into everyone else, I have concerns. I think this is a class of pass rushers where a ton of guys have flaws, most are good and have good upside but there aren't a lot of elite pass rushes - they're getting pushed up by the lack of high end talent in this draft and the demand for pass rushers in the league.

As far as Holmes goes, it's mostly dead money but not all and they'd save around a million cutting him. Not sure if they want him on the team to influence younger players. It's highly doable though. And my point about building a longer-term team still stands.

Robcards
02-21-2013, 01:34 AM
Pick 9 is what? 4 years 12 mil or so? That's not really elite guard money. I don't think anyone likes cooper more than warmack. The drop off from warmack to every other guard is quite huge from what I've read. But then again the drop off of the top 3 rush linebackers (Moore jones and Mingo) to the ones that will be left when the jets pick again is huge as well so IMO they have to take OLB in the first unless somehow all 3 are gone at 9 which I don't see happening.

thetedginnshow
02-21-2013, 06:04 AM
Pick 9 is what? 4 years 12 mil or so? That's not really elite guard money. I don't think anyone likes cooper more than warmack. The drop off from warmack to every other guard is quite huge from what I've read. But then again the drop off of the top 3 rush linebackers (Moore jones and Mingo) to the ones that will be left when the jets pick again is huge as well so IMO they have to take OLB in the first unless somehow all 3 are gone at 9 which I don't see happening.

I don't know if you're citing "professionals" only, but I like Cooper more than Warmack. Watching them play, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about Warmack. He's good, but not great. I would also disagree on who the top 3 rush linebackers are, but to each his own.

Has anyone watched Miguel Maysonet play? He's awfully impressive. He has that Ray Rice/MJD sort of body type that would be perfect for an eventual feature back. Small-school guy, but he was productive and did just fine when he faced big-league teams. Not sure if he hits the hole with explosion - I'll have to compare him to the other runningbacks. But he does have good vision and leg drive. Might be a steal later on in the draft.

I also hear Dee Milliner is having surgery on a torn labrum after the combine. It almost assuredly won't, but if it dropped his stock to the second round, despite the other needs, I would be jumping for joy if we took him.

Iamcanadian
02-21-2013, 12:11 PM
IMO, Warmack is the top rated prospect in this year's draft but will fall due to the position he plays. Whoever gets him will have a future HOF OG for the next decade. Alabama ran the ball extremely effectively in the SEC on every team, and Warmack was the main reason why. He completely dominated every DT he faced including many who will start in the NFL.

derza222
02-21-2013, 02:53 PM
If you look at what the top guards in the NFL make, Warmack would step into the league making top 10 guard money if he's drafted at 9. I'm sure it's far from universal as well, but some may like Cooper over Warmack due to scheme fit - they're very different players so it's far from ridiculous to say. So much of the same stuff was said about DeCastro last year too, Warmack may be better and the draft may be weak but that's a half round difference high in the draft and DeCastro didn't step in and dominate either.

I also will get crap for this but I want no part of Jarvis Jones.

gpngc
02-21-2013, 03:06 PM
I doubt the Jets go guard in the first. Marty has WCO roots and that doesn't mean big-time OGs.

Plus Idzik has seen first hand that guards can be found later after striking out with Carpenter and Moffitt (so far).

They absolutely need to come away with pass rusher and there are enough available to take one at 9. If not, I'd be shocked if they didn't take one in the 2nd.

Remember, Idzik saw Seattle trade down or at least attempt to every single year there. And if there's a team that needs to trade down, it's this year's Jets. If they absolutely love Moore, Jordan or Ansah is there, then maybe they pull the trigger, but I could see them moving down to maybe No. 13 (where maybe TB wants to move up for Milliner) adding a pick or two, and still nabbing a pass rusher (maybe even Mingo) later in the first.

The Jets depth after trading up so much was always so lacking. After his time in Seattle and from what I've heard from him, Idzik is going to bring the competition aspect to the team which can only be good for depth.

thetedginnshow
02-21-2013, 04:06 PM
If you look at what the top guards in the NFL make, Warmack would step into the league making top 10 guard money if he's drafted at 9. I'm sure it's far from universal as well, but some may like Cooper over Warmack due to scheme fit - they're very different players so it's far from ridiculous to say. So much of the same stuff was said about DeCastro last year too, Warmack may be better and the draft may be weak but that's a half round difference high in the draft and DeCastro didn't step in and dominate either.

I also will get crap for this but I want no part of Jarvis Jones.

DeCastro actually was hurt his rookie season. He'll get his chance next year.

I completely agree about Jones. I didn't see what was so special before, but after the rumors about his practice habits (or lack thereof) and him skipping out on the combine, as well as what I see in interviews, not to mention the medical history, I just think there is a Manti-Teo's-girlfriend-sized red flag on him.

And a lot of good posts there. I think drafting a play-maker early on at a pivotal position would be far more beneficial to us than what a Guard may bring, considering our lack of game-breaking skill position players. That being said, RB, WR, and OLB happen to be particularly deep in this draft (I'm hesitant on how many of the OLBs will be successful, but there is at least a lot of talent there), so I would not particularly have a problem with us addressing the line first.

Old School
02-21-2013, 05:21 PM
It's been tough to find first round mocks that don't have the Jets taking a Defensive player with pick #9, even with their offensive deficiencies. I feel like I'm being brainwashed that one of these dudes will be our pick:

Dion Jordon
Jarvis Jones
Star Lotulelei
Barkevious Mingo

derza222
02-21-2013, 06:22 PM
DeCastro actually was hurt his rookie season. He'll get his chance next year.

I completely agree about Jones. I didn't see what was so special before, but after the rumors about his practice habits (or lack thereof) and him skipping out on the combine, as well as what I see in interviews, not to mention the medical history, I just think there is a Manti-Teo's-girlfriend-sized red flag on him.

And a lot of good posts there. I think drafting a play-maker early on at a pivotal position would be far more beneficial to us than what a Guard may bring, considering our lack of game-breaking skill position players. That being said, RB, WR, and OLB happen to be particularly deep in this draft (I'm hesitant on how many of the OLBs will be successful, but there is at least a lot of talent there), so I would not particularly have a problem with us addressing the line first.

On DeCastro, he played a couple preseason games and a few towards the end of the season. Injury didn't help, but he didn't blow anyone away in the beginning of the year or at the end of the season IIRC.

Jones, I don't love on the field. Really, really small for a 3-4 OLB (not sure why this doesn't get mentioned more), looks average athletically, doesn't get off blocks well, lots of his production comes from running by OT's or broken plays/coverage sacks. Definitely made big plays at big moments, but just strikes me as the type who is a better collegian than a pro and doesn't project well to the league. Throw in the injury/risk for a shortened career and the fact that he might have issues bulking up because it's tough to lift because of it although he's really small for a 3-4 OLB and I just don't see it at all. I think he's in for a big slide, but hopefully for him and us he's off the board by 9. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see it.

Positions are really weird this year, there's a lot of talent in the late 1-early 2 range. Getting a guard like Warmack would be nice, but there are other nice talents there. Even moving Fluker to guard is really interesting. And like you said it's not a priority position. I think they're only going to draft 1 guard max this year and it's something that can be addressed later. Personally I'd be fine with them re-signing Moore and going Ducasse/Moore at G unless there's an awesome value they can't pass up. Definitely agree about the depth at WR/RB, on WR though I could see going that way early or not at all since I don't think a #2 is going to do anything for the team. Would imagine they can wait on RB. And I've just got a tough time sorting my way through the OLB class. A good amount of talent but no really super clean prospects. No way they're going TE in the first but I like that class on day 2/early day 3 a lot, would imagine Keller walks since they don't have that much cap room.

Old School
02-21-2013, 09:12 PM
Jones, I don't love on the field. Really, really small for a 3-4 OLB (not sure why this doesn't get mentioned more), looks average athletically, doesn't get off blocks well, lots of his production comes from running by OT's or broken plays/coverage sacks. Definitely made big plays at big moments, but just strikes me as the type who is a better collegian than a pro and doesn't project well to the league. Throw in the injury/risk for a shortened career and the fact that he might have issues bulking up because it's tough to lift because of it although he's really small for a 3-4 OLB and I just don't see it at all. I think he's in for a big slide, but hopefully for him and us he's off the board by 9. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see it.


All great points, and I'm not saying that I want the Jets to make this pick, but the numbers and production don't lie. This guy led the nation in sacks, tackles for a loss, and forced fumbles. Three huge categories, and he missed two games. If they picked him it wouldn't be the worst pick.

And just to throw it out there, if we go defense, I want Star. Having Coples, Wilkerson, and Lotulelei, would make our D-Line young and one of the best in the NFL.

derza222
02-21-2013, 11:42 PM
Sack production doesn't tend to mean that much when translating guys to the next level. Plenty of guys have had tons of sacks in college and didn't translate well to the league because of their lack of physical tools and they didn't have Jones' injury red flags. And again, how many 6'2-6'3 240-245 lb 3-4 OLB's do you see in the league? That's tiny for that position. And he's not a freak from a speed or strength perspective. The tape just says average player to me.

As for Star, what about Ellis?

thetedginnshow
02-22-2013, 03:51 AM
Doesn't hurt to have a healthy rotation on the line, and Ellis doesn't really have "star" written on his name so it seems (haha get it).

Does everyone believe Star to be a NT in the 3-4? Having watched him, if he were in the 3-4, I feel like he would be better in space as the DE because he's so fast and agile. He never really struck me to have the strength to play NT. But I do know some compare him to Ngata (more or less racist comparisons, to me), who can play NT. He doesn't necessarily have to put up big bench numbers this week, as I don't think Ngata did. But he has to have the right mindset.

We would have a lethal blend of athleticism on the line, but 1st round picks three years in a row there would seem a bit excessive to me. We need help in a lot of places, and I would feel like that might not be the best position to address. I wouldn't hate the pick, but this is a deep DT class, and if they did want to go that route, getting someone like Hughes later on in the draft might be more beneficial?

The first pick, to me, just has to be a top notch player. I don't really care what position it's at. There's plenty of depth in this draft to get play-makers on both sides of the ball at the positions we really need, so that first pick should just be the absolute best player available.

Old School
02-22-2013, 07:36 PM
Doesn't hurt to have a healthy rotation on the line, and Ellis doesn't really have "star" written on his name so it seems (haha get it).

Does everyone believe Star to be a NT in the 3-4? Having watched him, if he were in the 3-4, I feel like he would be better in space as the DE because he's so fast and agile. He never really struck me to have the strength to play NT. But I do know some compare him to Ngata (more or less racist comparisons, to me), who can play NT. He doesn't necessarily have to put up big bench numbers this week, as I don't think Ngata did. But he has to have the right mindset.

We would have a lethal blend of athleticism on the line, but 1st round picks three years in a row there would seem a bit excessive to me. We need help in a lot of places, and I would feel like that might not be the best position to address. I wouldn't hate the pick, but this is a deep DT class, and if they did want to go that route, getting someone like Hughes later on in the draft might be more beneficial?

The first pick, to me, just has to be a top notch player. I don't really care what position it's at. There's plenty of depth in this draft to get play-makers on both sides of the ball at the positions we really need, so that first pick should just be the absolute best player available.



Star's versatility makes him a strength in the 3-4 or in space as a DE. With Ellis in the mix, they would be able to move him around. Defensive players with versatility has to have Rex salivating. I do think however that he will find his niche on the inside though. His build and strength are perfect for DT, and could anchor the run. I've seen the Ngata comparisons, but I've also seen him compared to Kevin Williams. I'd take either of those any day.

Your thoughts on the 1st pick having to be a top notch player though is tricky. There is no definite top 10. At this point rankings are all over the place. A pick at #9 could easily hold the same value in talent as the #20 pick. This would be a great year to trade down, but I don't how many teams would feel the need to. My hope is the Jets put calls out to the league that pick #9 is up for grabs as the first eight picks unfold. Hopefully a team or two will be excited about what is sitting there, and we take an offer to move down and gain a pick or two. Point is that this is a great year to trade down, but probably one of the most difficult to do so with the depth of 1st round talent.

thetedginnshow
02-23-2013, 01:54 AM
Star's versatility makes him a strength in the 3-4 or in space as a DE. With Ellis in the mix, they would be able to move him around. Defensive players with versatility has to have Rex salivating. I do think however that he will find his niche on the inside though. His build and strength are perfect for DT, and could anchor the run. I've seen the Ngata comparisons, but I've also seen him compared to Kevin Williams. I'd take either of those any day.

Your thoughts on the 1st pick having to be a top notch player though is tricky. There is no definite top 10. At this point rankings are all over the place. A pick at #9 could easily hold the same value in talent as the #20 pick. This would be a great year to trade down, but I don't how many teams would feel the need to. My hope is the Jets put calls out to the league that pick #9 is up for grabs as the first eight picks unfold. Hopefully a team or two will be excited about what is sitting there, and we take an offer to move down and gain a pick or two. Point is that this is a great year to trade down, but probably one of the most difficult to do so with the depth of 1st round talent.

Yeah, I think most of us agree that we would love a trade down, but do see the problems with making it happen. I don't think it's out of the question, but we might possibly have to get less than true value, or have a very fortunate set of circumstances unfold. However, my point about getting a top talent with our first rounder didn't really have to do with that. Whether we're at #9 or #20, it doesn't make much difference. What I was trying to say was that I would be open to us addressing any position with our first rounder, no matter how much of a need it was (something like C would probably be one of the few bad decisions), as long as we were getting the biggest impact player available.

Robcards
02-23-2013, 01:50 PM
Can someone explain to me why Star Lotuleilei is being discussed in a Jets draft thread?

1. No way he is there at 9
2. Our front 3 is one of the areas we don't need to draft someone early. Some depth, sure, but not a 1st rounder.

Makes no sense to me why these many words are being wasted on a guy that has little to no chance of becoming a Jet. I'm aware I said the same of Coples pre-draft, but I'm obviously a bigger fan of Mike Devito than the organization was, but they just used 2 1st rounders in a row on DE and both are looking good, and with Pouha and Ellis at NT there's no reason to take another front 3 guy.

Old School
02-23-2013, 07:02 PM
Can someone explain to me why Star Lotuleilei is being discussed in a Jets draft thread?

1. No way he is there at 9
2. Our front 3 is one of the areas we don't need to draft someone early. Some depth, sure, but not a 1st rounder.

Makes no sense to me why these many words are being wasted on a guy that has little to no chance of becoming a Jet. I'm aware I said the same of Coples pre-draft, but I'm obviously a bigger fan of Mike Devito than the organization was, but they just used 2 1st rounders in a row on DE and both are looking good, and with Pouha and Ellis at NT there's no reason to take another front 3 guy.




No doubt, I agree that there is a good chance Star wont be there. And that this is not the greatest area of need for the Jets. But the draft is a crap shoot, anything can happen, and you really can't rule anyone out. As evidenced by your Coples analysis last year. I brought Star up because he could make a very good unit, outstanding, one of the best in the league for years to come. There are many players I'd like the Jets to target, and with the depth of 1st round talent, I'm still not sure at this point who I'd like them to get the most with pick 9. Personally I'd like the Jets to address the offense first.

Old School
02-23-2013, 07:51 PM
On NFL.com's mock drafts, Tannenbaum has the Jets taking Patterson with the 9th pick. Should I be worried that I would actually like that pick ......... ???

thetedginnshow
02-24-2013, 04:39 PM
On NFL.com's mock drafts, Tannenbaum has the Jets taking Patterson with the 9th pick. Should I be worried that I would actually like that pick ......... ???

Haha. I would say that's a red flag.

Also, Star has a heart condition, so he's probably out of the picture.

Receivers and runningbacks are really showing up at the combine. TONS of speed and explosion from guys that can really play. If we don't come out of this draft with at least one of both RB and WR with both being game-breakers, it will be a loss.

thetedginnshow
02-24-2013, 06:41 PM
With the reports of the Chiefs trading for Alex Smith, we may want to do more research on Geno Smith, since that might be our pick. Of course, if people think he's all that good, I wouldn't see why Buffalo wouldn't take him ahead of us.

EDIT: Actually, I should expand that to CLE, ARI, and maybe even PHI, not just BUF.

Old School
02-24-2013, 08:05 PM
Haha. I would say that's a red flag.

Also, Star has a heart condition, so he's probably out of the picture.

Receivers and runningbacks are really showing up at the combine. TONS of speed and explosion from guys that can really play. If we don't come out of this draft with at least one of both RB and WR with both being game-breakers, it will be a loss.



It seems right now that round two is where you are going to want to grab a WR. Guys like Hunter, Patton, Wheaton, Woods, Bailey, Hopkins(probably gone in round one). So Geno pick one, Hunter pick two. Does that get anyone excited about the offense next season?

Side note, Arizona seems to really like Barkley, so maybe they'll pass on Geno. Also, Glennon looked pretty bad today on his throws. His stock seems to be falling.

thetedginnshow
02-25-2013, 10:30 AM
Well, it's safe to say Damontre Moore is off the board now lol. This has been a very awful combine for him.

Really, I don't trust any of these potential 3-4 OLBs, but considering the athleticism, the production, and the motor, Dion Jordan would probably have to be the only one I'd be interested in at #9.

Robcards
02-25-2013, 11:40 PM
I officially hate our pick right now. I've been a huge Damontre Moore fan since last year, but wow he's become a tough guy to root for now with the horrific measurables and interviews.

And so much for Star not being there when we pick, he may make Da'quan Bowers' plummet look like nothing.

Cordarelle was supposed to blow up the combine to solidify himself as a top 10 pick, which he did not do. Honestly I think Tavon Austin may be the #1 WR in the draft now, even considering his height.

I have not been a fan of Dion Jordan at all, I really want to like him as he's a very probable pick for the Jets and would fill a big need... but his tape looks awful. I haven't seen anything in the tape that would indicate that he can be a premier pass rusher, or even a mediocre pass rusher.

Mingo was a disappointment as well.

So who does that leave that I'd actually want with the #9 pick?

1. Trade back. Easier said than done, no one is going to want to trade up and if they do itll be for a day 3 pick at most.
2. Ezekiel Ansah. I'd seriously consider switching to a full-time 46 or 4-3 if this is the pick. I just don't see how Ansah could be a good 3-4 OLB, he has to be a full time rusher. Coples would make a good 4-3 LE as well and Wilkerson and Pouha/Ellis can play DT.
3. Chance Warmack. G is a huge need and he's a stud and is one of the few guys who haven't fallen on his face so he's moved up on the boards by default.
4. Kenny Vaccaro. Same as above, huge need with both our starters on the way out and he hasn't fallen on his face so he's moved up a bit as well.

I may throw up if they take Dion Jordan, a WR, or QB with that pick. (or dare i say, trade up, ugh)

thetedginnshow
02-26-2013, 12:54 AM
I think the only losses in my mind would be if they took a QB or traded up, but I find it hard to believe that they would do either. As far as the other positions go, there are so many explosive athletes up there at the top that even if it wasn't a star, they'd at the very least be improving our speed on one side of the ball.

Personally, if it was my first year on the job in the Big Apple, if I couldn't swing a trade down, I'd just take one of the Guards. Huge risk factors with just about everyone else (well, not RT, but I think that's a far less likely pick).

Robcards
02-26-2013, 06:11 AM
Been a huge Bray fan throughout his college career, nice to see him bulk up a bit. Would be ecstatic if we got him in the 2nd

msolimani
02-26-2013, 08:53 AM
This may sound crazy to some people at this point in the draft process but I would love Tavon Austin at #9 overall for the Jets. Trading back a couple of spots and grabbing him would be ideal, but either way I would love adding him to this stale offense. People can question his size all they want and try to figure out a proper NFL comparison for him but in my opinion there isn't anyone quite like him in the league right now (Maybe Percy Harvin but Tavon is different in some areas).

He's the type of play maker this Jets offense has been missing for a while (Come back Brad Smith!). You can line him up all over the field, any time he touches the ball it can go for six, and he's a match up nightmare for any team. There aren't many people you can say that about in the NFL.

Some people might think ninth overall is too high for him but I think well be looking back at this somewhat unusual draft class in a couple of years and mention Tavon Austin as one of the top talents. A few teams are going to fall in love with him throughout this process and I really hope the Jets are one of them. Thoughts?