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ramsrule
04-30-2012, 06:25 PM
In an earlier thread, as a Rams fan, I expressed concern with the Rams selection of Brockers because LSU players seem to underwhelm in the NFL. Below is a list of LSU players who are on, or will be on, NFL rosters.


Joe Barksdale Oakland Raiders Offensive Tackle
Dwayne Bowe Kansas City Chiefs Wide Receiver
Michael Brockers St. Louis Rams Defensive Tackle
Ron Brooks Buffalo Bills Cornerback
Morris Claiborne Dallas Cowboys Defensive Back
Ryan Clark Pittsburgh Steelers Safety
Jacob Cutrera Tampa Bay Buccaneers Linebacker
Travis Daniels Kansas City Chiefs Cornerback
Glenn Dorsey Kansas City Chiefs Defensive End
Early Doucet Arizona Cardinals Wide Receiver
Matt Flynn Seattle Seahawks Quarterback
Chris Hawkins Tennessee Titans Cornerback
Devery Henderson New Orleans Saints Wide Receiver
Jacob Hester San Diego Chargers Fullback
Trindon Holliday Houston Texans Wide Receiver
Tyson Jackson Kansas City Chiefs Defensive End
Bradie James Houston Texans Linebacker
Ricky Jean Francois San Francisco 49ers Defensive Tackle
Quinn Johnson Tennessee Titans Fullback
Donnie Jones Houston Texans Punter
Chad Jones New York Giants Safety
Brandon LaFell Carolina Panthers Wide Receiver
LaRon Landry New York Jets Safety
Lazarius Levingston Seattle Seahawks Defensive End
Nate Livings Dallas Cowboys Offensive Guard
Todd McClure Atlanta Falcons Center
Danny McCray Dallas Cowboys Safety
Richard Murphy Jacksonville Jaguars Running Back
Drake Nevis Indianapolis Colts Defensive Tackle
Stephen Peterman Detroit Lions Offensive Guard
Patrick Peterson Arizona Cardinals Cornerback
Rueben Randle New York Giants Wide Receiver
Stevan Ridley New England Patriots Running Back
Perry Riley Washington Redskins Linebacker
Kelvin Sheppard Buffalo Bills Linebacker
Marcus Spears Dallas Cowboys Defensive End
Craig Steltz Chicago Bears Safety
Curtis Taylor Oakland Raiders Safety
Brandon Taylor San Diego Chargers Tight End
Terrence Toliver Detroit Lions Wide Receiver
Corey Webster New York Giants Cornerback
Andrew Whitworth Cincinnati Bengals Offensive Tackle
Kyle Williams Buffalo Bills Nose Tackle
Keiland Williams Detroit Lions Running Back
Al Woods Pittsburgh Steelers Defensive Tackle

McClure has been a good center for the Falcons; Peterson has loads of potential as he is already one of the best return men; Landry has been solid, but only 4 career ints????; Henderson has been a consistent deep threat for the Saints; while Bowe is a stud. But overall, LSU players have not exactly set the NFL on fire. I think the only player who receives consistent pro bowl recognition is Bowe, while Peterson may warrant that type of attention sooner rather than later.

Now let's take a school such as Boston College, who has spent the last few years near the bottom of the weak ACC.

Alex Albright Dallas Cowboys Linebacker
Ron Brace New England Patriots Defensive End
Anthony Castonzo Indianapolis Colts Offensive Tackle
Gosder Cherilus Detroit Lions Offensive Tackle
Jo-Lonn Dunbar St. Louis Rams Linebacker
Rob Francois Green Bay Packers Linebacker
Antonio Garay San Diego Chargers Defensive Tackle
Matt Hasselbeck Tennessee Titans Quarterback
Mark Herzlich New York Giants Linebacker
Mathias Kiwanuka New York Giants Linebacker
Dan Koppen New England Patriots Center
Luke Kuechly Carolina Panthers Linebacker
James McCluskey Oakland Raiders Fullback
Ryan Purvis New York Giants Tight End
B.J. Raji Green Bay Packers Nose Tackle
Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons Quarterback
Damik Scafe San Diego Chargers Defensive End
Chris Snee New York Giants Offensive Guard
Matt Tennant New Orleans Saints Center
Jeremy Trueblood Tampa Bay Buccaneers Offensive Tackle

Hasselbeck has been a pro-bowler and played in a Superbowl, Ryan is arguably a top ten qb, Snee, Raji, Trueblood, and Koppen have been very good players.

I am probably overanalyzing the Rams pick, but I am a little nervous about this selection.

San Diego Chicken
04-30-2012, 06:40 PM
I don't think it's just LSU, it's alot of big college programs. USC, Texas, Florida, they seem to produce lots of busts. Talented teams mask alot of individual flaws that prospects might have. For example Brockers, it didn't seem to matter if he didn't push the pocket or have any pass rush moves because he's playing next to two stud pass-rushers. I'm not saying he's going to bust although he wasn't my favorite prospect but at the end of the day his weakness doesn't hurt LSU as much as it would a team that didn't also have Mingo and Montgomery, therefore making everyone look better. It's not that teams should just avoid these guys from powerhouse programs because that would be stupid, but I think you need to take a harder look at their flaws than you would a kid from a smaller school.

Warhawk137
04-30-2012, 06:44 PM
I don't think it looks that out of the ordinary. And a perfectly reasonable explanation is that high-profile schools may be more complete teams in the first place, and have great coaching to develop their players, and are more heavily scouted by NFL teams, and thus have more mediocre-to-decent roster-filler types that make the NFL, where similar guys from smaller schools may not have the kind of experience, development, coaching, and exposure that those from the big schools do.

ramsrule
04-30-2012, 07:27 PM
I don't think it's just LSU, it's alot of big college programs. USC, Texas, Florida, they seem to produce lots of busts. Talented teams mask alot of individual flaws that prospects might have. For example Brockers, it didn't seem to matter if he didn't push the pocket or have any pass rush moves because he's playing next to two stud pass-rushers. I'm not saying he's going to bust although he wasn't my favorite prospect but at the end of the day his weakness doesn't hurt LSU as much as it would a team that didn't also have Mingo and Montgomery, therefore making everyone look better. It's not that teams should just avoid these guys from powerhouse programs because that would be stupid, but I think you need to take a harder look at their flaws than you would a kid from a smaller school.

Valid point. But USC, Texas and Florida have produced some studs as well. Troy Palomala (sp?), Ryan Khalil, Clay Matthews, Brian Cushing for USC; Casey Hampton, Jamaal Charles, Jermicheal Finley, Brian Orakpo, and Earl Thomas for Texas; the Pouncy's, Dunlap, Hernandez, and Percy Harvin for Florida. Granted, these schools had their share of disappointments and busts, they also appear to have more success at the pro level than LSU (though one could make a argument that Florida players are somewhat disappointing).

Then you look at a program like Miami.

Spencer Adkins Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
Baraka Atkins Dallas Cowboys Linebacker
Allen Bailey Kansas City Chiefs Defensive End
Jon Beason Carolina Panthers Linebacker
Travis Benjamin Cleveland Browns Wide Receiver
Damien Berry Baltimore Ravens Running Back
Matt Bosher Atlanta Falcons Place kicker
Rashad Butler Houston Texans Offensive Tackle
Calais Campbell Arizona Cardinals Defensive End
Graig Cooper Philadelphia Eagles Running Back
Antonio Dixon Philadelphia Eagles Defensive Tackle
Dedrick Epps New York Jets Tight End
Jason Fox Detroit Lions Offensive Tackle
Orlando Franklin Denver Broncos Offensive Tackle
Tavares Gooden San Francisco 49ers Linebacker
Richard Gordon Oakland Raiders Tight End
Frank Gore San Francisco 49ers Running Back
Jimmy Graham New Orleans Saints Tight End
Leonard Hankerson Washington Redskins Wide Receiver
Brandon Harris Houston Texans Cornerback
Dwayne Hendricks New York Giants Defensive Tackle
Devin Hester Chicago Bears Wide Receiver
Andre Johnson Houston Texans Wide Receiver
Ray Lewis Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
Colin McCarthy Tennessee Titans Linebacker
Willis McGahee Denver Broncos Running Back
Bryant McKinnie Baltimore Ravens Offensive Tackle
Brandon Meriweather Washington Redskins Safety
Lamar Miller Miami Dolphins Running Back
Santana Moss Washington Redskins Wide Receiver
Chris Myers Houston Texans Center
Cory Nelms San Francisco 49ers Cornerback
Greg Olsen Carolina Panthers Tight End
Roscoe Parrish San Diego Chargers Wide Receiver
Kenny Phillips New York Giants Safety
Ed Reed Baltimore Ravens Safety
Antrel Rolle New York Giants Safety
Darryl Sharpton Houston Texans Linebacker
Sam Shields Green Bay Packers Cornerback
Sean Spence Pittsburgh Steelers Linebacker
Tommy Streeter Baltimore Ravens Wide Receiver
DeMarcus Van Dyke Oakland Raiders Cornerback
Olivier Vernon Miami Dolphins Defensive End
Jonathan Vilma New Orleans Saints Linebacker
Brandon Washington Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Guard
Reggie Wayne Indianapolis Colts Wide Receiver
Vince Wilfork New England Patriots Nose Tackle
D.J. Williams Denver Broncos Linebacker
Kellen Winslow Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tight End
Eric Winston Kansas City Chiefs Offensive Tackle

Two future Hall of Famers (Lewis and Reed), another who is well on his way (Andre Johnson), one who has Hall of Fame numbers (Reggie Wayne), one of the best running backs in the league (Frank Gore), and Pro Bowlers at one time or another such as McKinnie, Vilma, Graham, Wilfork, Rolle, Myers, Moss, Hester, and McGahee - as well as a plethora of others who are very good NFL players.

mightytitan9
04-30-2012, 08:23 PM
I don't want to get too much into it, but LSU wasn't a powerhouse program in the 90s, and Miami was in the 90s and early 00s.

LSU has, really in just the past decade or so became a national powerhouse. Give LSU some time and I'm sure there list will look almost as impressive as Miami.

Miami was producing stars at nearly every level (although it's amazing QB and O-Line never seemed to develop much) while LSU really just seems to produce DT's, DB's, a few WR's and some odd ones here and there/

ramsrule
04-30-2012, 08:34 PM
I don't want to get too much into it, but LSU wasn't a powerhouse program in the 90s, and Miami was in the 90s and early 00s.

LSU has, really in just the past decade or so became a national powerhouse. Give LSU some time and I'm sure there list will look almost as impressive as Miami.

Miami was producing stars at nearly every level (although it's amazing QB and O-Line never seemed to develop much) while LSU really just seems to produce DT's, DB's, a few WR's and some odd ones here and there/

Good point regarding quarterbacks. Other than Kelly and perhaps Kosar, Miami never really produced top flight qbs. Yeah, Testeverde played for decades, but never was the player many thought he would be.

Even as of late, Miami has produced good players. Olsen, Graham, Beason, Winston, Phillips, Shields, Franklin, and Campbell.

LSU has not really produced too many DTs, though they have had a few good db's (Peterson and Landry being two of the better ones).

You may be onto something as far as LSU lacking in the pro department due to their lack of past success....look at Alabama. They are not exactly supplying the NFL with Pro Bowlers. Just five or six years ago, they were dismal.

Mark Anderson Buffalo Bills Defensive End
Javier Arenas Kansas City Chiefs Cornerback
Mark Barron Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive Back
Antoine Caldwell Houston Texans Offensive Guard
James Carpenter Seattle Seahawks Offensive Tackle
Josh Chapman Indianapolis Colts Defensive Tackle
Terrence Cody Baltimore Ravens Defensive Tackle
Marcell Dareus Buffalo Bills Defensive Tackle
Brandon Deaderick New England Patriots Defensive End
Roman Harper New Orleans Saints Safety
Dont'a Hightower New England Patriots Linebacker
Mark Ingram New Orleans Saints Running Back
Kareem Jackson Houston Texans Cornerback
Jarret Johnson San Diego Chargers Linebacker
Rashad Johnson Arizona Cardinals Safety
Mike Johnson Atlanta Falcons Offensive Guard
Marquis Johnson St. Louis Rams Cornerback
Julio Jones Atlanta Falcons Wide Receiver
Dre Kirkpatrick Cincinnati Bengals Defensive Back
Evan Mathis Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Guard
Rolando McClain Oakland Raiders Linebacker
Le'Ron McClain San Diego Chargers Running Back
Greg McElroy New York Jets Quarterback
DeQuan Menzie Kansas City Chiefs Cornerback
Charlie Peprah Green Bay Packers Safety
Trent Richardson Cleveland Browns Running Back
Ramzee Robinson Denver Broncos Cornerback
DeMeco Ryans Philadelphia Eagles Linebacker
Brad Smelley Cleveland Browns Running Back
Andre Smith Cincinnati Bengals Offensive Tackle
Courtney Upshaw Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
Chavis Williams Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
John Parker Wilson Atlanta Falcons Quarterback

SuperMcGee
04-30-2012, 08:46 PM
I think the only player who receives consistent pro bowl recognition is Bowe, while Peterson may warrant that type of attention sooner rather than later.



LSU has not really produced too many DTs, though they have had a few good db's (Peterson and Landry being two of the better ones).


http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/07/sports/Kyle_Williams-2.jpg

ARE YOU NOT IMPRESSED!?

ramsrule
04-30-2012, 09:13 PM
http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/07/sports/Kyle_Williams-2.jpg

ARE YOU NOT IMPRESSED!?

Good find. I obviously forgot about Mr. Williams. Had a breakout year. 5th rounder I believe. I hope Brockers can duplicate his success in the NFL.

mightytitan9
04-30-2012, 10:16 PM
Good point regarding quarterbacks. Other than Kelly and perhaps Kosar, Miami never really produced top flight qbs. Yeah, Testeverde played for decades, but never was the player many thought he would be.



LSU has not really produced too many DTs, though they have had a few good db's (Peterson and Landry being two of the better ones).


Yeah I was talking the second life of Miami football, from the 90s-2000s they havent produced any QBs.

And you don't think 5+ DT's in the past 10 years if good?

Duffman57
04-30-2012, 11:32 PM
Jarrett Lee is also technically "in" the NFL, but he wont last long, he's on the Chargers now though.

YAYareaRB
04-30-2012, 11:36 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/football/ncaa/01/03/quinn.russell/t1_russell.jpg

I wish THIS woulda came to the NFL.. but, instead we got THIS

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5CkKtonbiA4/THXjaazBvLI/AAAAAAAAAGI/njJWE5PSbRk/s1600/Jamarcus-Russell-Purple-Drank.jpg

CC.SD
04-30-2012, 11:54 PM
it's true. I hate this program actually, and am still fairly bitter about buster davis and jacob hester being not just awful, but really pretty pathetic to the extent that you never thought they were even trying hard. Hester actually is still on the Bolt roster despite being a fullback that takes away from the running game's potency, although will be a special teamer/backup to McClain this year.

We also have Scafe and Lee in camp, AJ Smith loves LSU like i loved that girl in high school who did meth, until she literally got a facial scar from a car crash. Man that was insaaaane. waht an apt metaphor.

JHL6719
05-02-2012, 12:27 AM
Miami has obviously produced some great pros (or at least they used to) but half the players on that Miami list absolutely suck, or are barely rosterable players.

It's hard to give Miami credit for "producing" solid pros lately because even though some of them turned out to be solid pros, they it's only because of the coaching they got once in the NFL. They were raw as a turnip leaving Miami and the program did absolutely nothing to develope these players.

A lot of the best pros that Bama produced over the years are recently retired like Chris Samuels, Shaun Alexander, etc... or were tragically killed in car accidents like Derrick Thomas was.

Cornelius Bennett, George Teague, Kevin Turner, Justin Smiley, Deshea Townsend, Sam Shade, etc. all ranged from outstanding to solid pros.


Same for LSU with guys like Kevin Mawae, Alan Faneca, Kevin Faulk, Booger McFarland, etc.


Alabama has produced some of the best pros that the NFL has ever had if you go back a little... guys like Ozzie Newsome, John Hannah, Dwight Stephenson, Joe Namath, Bart Starr, Kenny Stabler, etc.

The more draft picks a program produces, the higher the bust percentage increases. Likewise, so does the odds of produces average pros.

As great as Miami was in the 90's and 2000's, look at all the 1st round busts... Yatil Green, Mike Rumph, Phillip Buchanon, Jerome McDougle, Damione Lewis, William Joseph, etc. Dan Morgan was a nice player but made of glass.

Remember Randall Hill?


You have to produce a lot of average pros in order to produce a lot of great ones.

boknows34
05-02-2012, 02:22 AM
Then you look at a program like Miami.

Two future Hall of Famers (Lewis and Reed), another who is well on his way (Andre Johnson), one who has Hall of Fame numbers (Reggie Wayne), one of the best running backs in the league (Frank Gore), and Pro Bowlers at one time or another such as McKinnie, Vilma, Graham, Wilfork, Rolle, Myers, Moss, Hester, and McGahee - as well as a plethora of others who are very good NFL players.

Those great Miami teams from the late 90s to the start of the last decade also featured Clinton Portis, Edge James, Jeremy Shockey and the late great Sean Taylor.

Go back a bit further and you'll find Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin, Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland, the Blades brothers and Jerome Brown (RIP). Even long before the Hurricanes became a powerhouse in the 80s they still produced two HOF Raiders legends in Ted Hendricks and Jim Otto.

bearfan
05-02-2012, 08:13 AM
I hate the LSU program for this reason. There is just a lack of good-great players that come out of it. Someone mentioned that it is a problem with many of the bigger schools, and that may be true. A program like LSU gets a lot of hype because they have been so good the past decade, and I feel that causes people to "fall in love" with certain players even if they aren't that good.

steelernation77
05-02-2012, 09:27 AM
Interesting when you compare those results with Iowa, a program whose prospects receive much less hype. Also note that Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders and Eric Steinbach are currently not on this list:

Pat Angerer Indianapolis Colts Linebacker
Jonathan Babineaux Atlanta Falcons Defensive Tackle
Christian Ballard Minnesota Vikings Defensive Tackle
Jordan Bernstine Washington Redskins Cornerback
Rob Bruggeman Kansas City Chiefs Center
Bryan Bulaga Green Bay Packers Offensive Tackle
Scott Chandler Buffalo Bills Tight End
Adrian Clayborn Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive End
Sean Considine Baltimore Ravens Safety
Mike Daniels Green Bay Packers Defensive End
Ryan Donahue Detroit Lions Punter
A.J. Edds Indianapolis Colts Linebacker
Bradley Fletcher St. Louis Rams Cornerback
Robert Gallery New England Patriots Offensive Guard
Adam Gettis Washington Redskins Offensive Guard
Charles Godfrey Carolina Panthers Safety
Shonn Greene New York Jets Running Back
Chad Greenway Minnesota Vikings Linebacker
Jeremiha Hunter New Orleans Saints Linebacker
Nate Kaeding San Diego Chargers Place kicker
Aaron Kampman Jacksonville Jaguars Defensive End
Mitch King New Orleans Saints Defensive Tackle
Karl Klug Tennessee Titans Defensive Tackle
Matt Kroul New York Jets Defensive Tackle
Bryan Mattison St. Louis Rams Offensive Tackle
Marvin McNutt Philadelphia Eagles Wide Receiver
Tony Moeaki Kansas City Chiefs Tight End
Brandon Myers Oakland Raiders Tight End
Seth Olsen Indianapolis Colts Offensive Guard
Shaun Prater Cincinnati Bengals Cornerback
Riley Reiff Detroit Lions Offensive Tackle
Allen Reisner Minnesota Vikings Tight End
Tyler Sash New York Giants Safety
Amari Spievey Detroit Lions Safety
Ricky Stanzi Kansas City Chiefs Quarterback
Jeff Tarpinian New England Patriots Linebacker
Julian Vandervelde Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Guard
Marshal Yanda Baltimore Ravens Offensive Guard

mqtirishfan
05-02-2012, 10:11 AM
I'm going to throw out a 'correlation does not imply causation' worry here. There are only so many productive NFL players at a given time. Right now, LSU hasn't produced as many as they could have. I think guys like Brockers, Claiborne and Randle will help change this trend.

bigbluedefense
05-02-2012, 04:13 PM
Corey Webster is from LSU and he's a boss. Top 5 CB in the league.

bornnraisedwhodat
05-03-2012, 01:26 PM
It's sad when the most consistent WR to come out of LSU is Devery Henderson.

Saints-Tigers
05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
^^ Dwayne Bowe.

JHL6719
05-03-2012, 07:58 PM
Eddie Kennison was pretty good.

keylime_5
05-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Dwayne Bowe
Ryan Clark
Devery Henderson
Bradie James
LaRon Landry
Patrick Peterson
Kyle Williams
Corey Webster
Andrew Whitworth
Todd McClure

Just glancing over the list those guys right there were/are pretty darn good players in the NFL - most of them pro bowl or at least pro bowl quality. There are a bunch of other guys on that list who are established starters in the league even if they aren't pro bowlers or stars. I'm pretty positive Morris Claiborne is going to be really good as well.

Sure LSU has had a fair share of high pick busts, but so does every other school who produces that large of a volume of top picks (look at USC, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Georgia, Florida State, etc.)

SchizophrenicBatman
05-04-2012, 12:30 PM
It's been covered pretty well but when you're on a top team you get more exposure, hence guys at LSU that would've been 2nd-3rd rounders elsewhere going in round 1, same for 4th-5th rounders getting pushed up, etc

Boston College is in the dumpster now but they were a very consistent, if unexciting, 8-9 win team for a very long time (save the one year with Matt Ryan where they peaked at #2 overall). They get no exposure being in a pro sports town with a small fanbase

Complex
05-04-2012, 12:33 PM
Miami has obviously produced some great pros (or at least they used to) but half the players on that Miami list absolutely suck, or are barely rosterable players.

It's hard to give Miami credit for "producing" solid pros lately because even though some of them turned out to be solid pros, they it's only because of the coaching they got once in the NFL. They were raw as a turnip leaving Miami and the program did absolutely nothing to develope these players.

.

Miami > Alabama at making pros deal with it.

mightytitan9
05-04-2012, 01:00 PM
Corey Webster is from LSU and he's a boss. Top 5 CB in the league.

lol you're funny :facepalm:

mightytitan9
05-04-2012, 01:04 PM
Miami has obviously produced some great pros (or at least they used to) but half the players on that Miami list absolutely suck, or are barely rosterable players.

It's hard to give Miami credit for "producing" solid pros lately because even though some of them turned out to be solid pros, they it's only because of the coaching they got once in the NFL. They were raw as a turnip leaving Miami and the program did absolutely nothing to develope these players.



this is a very valid point, miami gets some of the best recruits and are under utilized or outperformed there. nfl teams love to take risk on late round miami guys cuz they have so much talent, just needs coached up

Rosebud
05-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Corey Webster is from LSU and he's a boss. Top 5 CB in the league.

I don't get how he's still under-rated. When it was just the superbowl run, that was one thing, one it had been just the superbowl run and one season of great play, that was another, but it's been ******* years of elite play and people still forget about him.

OSUGiants17
05-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Judging by that list, LSU is best at producing WRs and DBs. Most of the pro talent from their seems to play those two positions while the busts play other positions. I think it's due to the intensity of the SEC at those positions.

phlysac
05-04-2012, 06:32 PM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ricky+Jean+Francois+Divisional+Playoffs+New+SKJyGv 5O5o_l.jpg

8CX7pPVaDUk

ChiFan24
05-04-2012, 07:00 PM
lol you're funny :facepalm:

....

Webster is awesome.

OSUGiants17
05-04-2012, 07:38 PM
lol you're funny :facepalm:

Name 5 better or :frog:

vidae
05-04-2012, 07:52 PM
Brandon Flowers!

Halsey
05-04-2012, 08:09 PM
Fans spend way too much time judging prospects based on which school they're from. Players are individuals. School is only a part of the puzzle. Look around the NFL. Many successful NFL players come from schools that have little to no correlation with the individual players NFL success. Take the Giants for example. How many good QBs are there from Ole Miss other than Eli? How many good WRs from UMASS other than Cruz? Good pass rushers from South Florida other than Pierre Paul? There's more to a prospect than the school he went to. A lot more.

mightytitan9
05-04-2012, 08:25 PM
Name 5 better or :frog:

Off the top of my head:

Darrelle Revis
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomaugh (he did have a very bad year though)
Jonathan Joseph
Cortland Finnegan

excluded Woodson and Leon Hall

Websters a good CB, but he benefits from the D-Line in front of him. He isn't nearly as good as the 5 I listed, whether stats say so or not. He's probably top 10, but top 5 he is not

OSUGiants17
05-04-2012, 09:23 PM
Off the top of my head:

Darrelle Revis
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomaugh (he did have a very bad year though)
Jonathan Joseph
Cortland Finnegan

excluded Woodson and Leon Hall

Websters a good CB, but he benefits from the D-Line in front of him. He isn't nearly as good as the 5 I listed, whether stats say so or not. He's probably top 10, but top 5 he is not

Champ Bailey is so overrated it's not even funny, he was good 3 years ago but is not a top 8 CB anymore. Cortland Finnegan is another overrated CB and a punk, dude is maybe number 10. I am guessing you are a Titans fan. O and Nnamdi had an awful year.

Top 5 CBs:
1. Revis
2. Webb
3. Joseph
4. Rogers
5. Webster

JHL6719
05-04-2012, 11:05 PM
Miami > Alabama at making pros deal with it.


You'd have a great point if it wasn't so horribly inaccurate.

Also, Miami wouldn't have a football program if it weren't for an Alabama guy to begin with.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 10:46 AM
Off the top of my head:

Darrelle Revis
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomaugh (he did have a very bad year though)
Jonathan Joseph
Cortland Finnegan

excluded Woodson and Leon Hall

Websters a good CB, but he benefits from the D-Line in front of him. He isn't nearly as good as the 5 I listed, whether stats say so or not. He's probably top 10, but top 5 he is not

Champ was top 5...3 years ago at best. He's not what he used to be. Still good, but not top 5. Finnegan is not top 5 at all. And Nmandi is not top 5 until he can bounce back from the awful year he had last year. Woodson is old and washed up, he might move to safety. Hall is legit, I have Hall in my top 5 but I'm concerned about his injury.

1. Darrelle Revis
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Joe Haden
4. Corey Webster
5. Leon Hall

Sloopy
05-05-2012, 11:32 AM
Champ was top 5...3 years ago at best. He's not what he used to be. Still good, but not top 5. Finnegan is not top 5 at all. And Nmandi is not top 5 until he can bounce back from the awful year he had last year. Woodson is old and washed up, he might move to safety. Hall is legit, I have Hall in my top 5 but I'm concerned about his injury.

1. Darrelle Revis
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Joe Haden
4. Corey Webster
5. Leon Hall

I dunno about that, I think he may need to move to safety, and he has been a glorified nickel type guy, but the man lead the league in interceptions last year.

In terms of last years production (as you are judging Nnamdi on), he was one of the better CBs in the league last year even if it was out of the slot.

Just my two cents. Not saying Webster isn't good or where he places in overall CBs

OSUGiants17
05-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Champ was top 5...3 years ago at best. He's not what he used to be. Still good, but not top 5. Finnegan is not top 5 at all. And Nmandi is not top 5 until he can bounce back from the awful year he had last year. Woodson is old and washed up, he might move to safety. Hall is legit, I have Hall in my top 5 but I'm concerned about his injury.

1. Darrelle Revis
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Joe Haden
4. Corey Webster
5. Leon Hall

Haden is not top 5.....yet. Carlos Rogers and Lardarius Webb both looked better than him too.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 11:35 AM
I dunno about that, I think he may need to move to safety, and he has been a glorified nickel type guy, but the man lead the league in interceptions last year.

In terms of last years production (as you are judging Nnamdi on), he was one of the better CBs in the league last year even if it was out of the slot.

Just my two cents. Not saying Webster isn't good or where he places in overall CBs

The nickel CB in your scheme is more of a blitzer/underneath zone cover guy than a true CB. Woodson moves around a lot and does a lot of things on defense.

As a pure cover corner, he's definitely lost a step. Interceptions are only part of the story. He's just not a top 5 cover guy anymore.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 11:36 AM
Haden is not top 5.....yet. Carlos Rogers and Lardarius Webb both looked better than him too.

Haden is lights out. I know he's young, but in 2 years he's been amazing. He shouldn't be punished for being young.

Sloopy
05-05-2012, 11:39 AM
The nickel CB in your scheme is more of a blitzer/underneath zone cover guy than a true CB. Woodson moves around a lot and does a lot of things on defense.

As a pure cover corner, he's definitely lost a step. Interceptions are only part of the story. He's just not a top 5 cover guy anymore.

I just want to make sure we know I'm a Ravens fan here :P

Our Nickels do blitz and I know the Packers use a similar scheme (nickel blitzes) so I didn't know which you were referring to.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 11:41 AM
I just want to make sure we know I'm a Ravens fan here :P

Our Nickels do blitz and I know the Packers use a similar scheme (nickel blitzes) so I didn't know which you were referring to.

Oh, I was referring to the Packers. Woodson is almost like a pseudo linebacker in their scheme.

Sloopy
05-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Oh, I was referring to the Packers. Woodson is almost like a pseudo linebacker in their scheme.

I tend to agree, he is indeed an overrated Nickel guy, but if you punish Nnamdi for his production last year, you also have to give props to a guy who, in terms of production, was very good.

I only say this because I am actually wrestling with myself over my top 10 CB list (SWDC top 100 thread). In terms of last years production, he might be the best CB in the league, but I just don't know if I can put him there.

WCH
05-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Lets not trivialize what Woodson does. He's not a shutdown cover corner, but there aren't many guys who could get 7 INTs, 17 PDs, 2 sacks, and 74 tackles as a hybrid defender. "Overrated" and "washed up" is a blatant exaggeration; and if the league were filled with guys who could do what Woodson does, then we'd see a lot more guys doing what Woodson does.

This is also incredibly unnecessary hyperbole if we're just trying to make a case for Webster being a quality CB. People know how good he is.

jojo
05-05-2012, 12:41 PM
I don't get how he's still under-rated. When it was just the superbowl run, that was one thing, one it had been just the superbowl run and one season of great play, that was another, but it's been ******* years of elite play and people still forget about him.

Webster is a piece of defecated matter as a player, one of the dirtiest guys out there, in college at LSU a swell as in the NFL -- he cheats a lot. Remember when he pushed the Bama WR down in the EZ, both hands, to get the INT? No flag, he was at home, & after all it was SEC officiating. SEC Commiosh said it should have been flagged, but he stole the TD.

As he's aged he tends to grabs receivers, but I'll admit he's good at man coverage, hand-fighting for the jump ball, & acting (like it wasn't him when he draws the flags). Why he is overrated is beyond me. F*cking hate him.

Best LSU player in the NFL now is CB & RS Patrick Peterson for Zona, here's his 2011 accolades:

Most punt return yards by a rookie in a season: 699 (2011)
Most punt returns in a season for touchdown (tied): 4 (2011)
Longest game-winning punt return touchdown in overtime: 99 yards (2011)
NFL Player of the Month (2011)
2x NFL Player of the Week (2011)
Pro Bowl (2011)

SchizophrenicBatman
05-05-2012, 03:09 PM
Champ Bailey is so overrated it's not even funny, he was good 3 years ago but is not a top 8 CB anymore. Cortland Finnegan is another overrated CB and a punk, dude is maybe number 10. I am guessing you are a Titans fan. O and Nnamdi had an awful year.

Top 5 CBs:
1. Revis
2. Webb
3. Joseph
4. Rogers
5. Webster

Quick hint: If you're a fan of the team a player is on and you rate a guy as the #5 player at his position, he's not in the top 5

SuperPacker
05-05-2012, 03:18 PM
Woodson is not a top 5 cornerback, or even a top 10 cornerback. He doesnt even play as a cornerback half the time.

He's a top 5 defensive playmaker though.

mightytitan9
05-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Champ Bailey is so overrated it's not even funny, he was good 3 years ago but is not a top 8 CB anymore. Cortland Finnegan is another overrated CB and a punk, dude is maybe number 10. I am guessing you are a Titans fan. O and Nnamdi had an awful year.

Top 5 CBs:
1. Revis
2. Webb
3. Joseph
4. Rogers
5. Webster

Did you guess this all by yourself? Can't believe you could break the code of my username. Cortland Finnegan is one of the most underrated CB;s in the NFL based on the fact that everyone thinks he's overrated. He's top 5, if he has a d-line like the Giants he'd be talked about all the time.

How many titans games do you watch? I'm guessing not many, and if you say a lot I know you're lying.

Face it, Webster isn't a top 5 CB. You can argue about my list all you want, but anyway you split it Webster isn't top 5

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 04:19 PM
I think having Cortland Finnegan as a top 5 CB is hilarious. He's not even top 10.

But then again you also think the Titans have the best offensive line in the history of football so I'm not shocked.

mightytitan9
05-05-2012, 04:23 PM
I think having Cortland Finnegan as a top 5 CB is hilarious. He's not even top 10.

But then again you also think the Titans have the best offensive line in the history of football so I'm not shocked.

And when did I say this? I said top 5 LT and the top RT in football. That equates to best offensive line in football history?

Well, if you believe that I guess how you overrate Corey Webster so much

mightytitan9
05-05-2012, 04:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/23050/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-cornerbacks

In this poll by espn, Finnegan ranked #10. Webster ranked #21.

Obviously this is a year old, but the thought of Webster being top 5, or better than Finnegan at that, is laughable

bigbluedefense
05-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Just quit while you're ahead. You're making yourself look more foolish by citing ESPN like that.

Finnegan isn't anywhere near a top 5 CB.

mightytitan9
05-05-2012, 04:30 PM
I never said Finnegan was top 5, but he's better than Webster, so if you rank him top 5 then I guess you'd have to rank Finnegan top 5.

ChiFan24
05-05-2012, 04:38 PM
I never said Finnegan was top 5, but he's better than Webster, so if you rank him top 5 then I guess you'd have to rank Finnegan top 5.

No he's not dude. Just stop.

mightytitan9
05-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Whats with this boards love of Corey Webster, he's a top 10-15 CB in this league.

Rosebud
05-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Quick hint: If you're a fan of the team a player is on and you rate a guy as the #5 player at his position, he's not in the top 5

So is Eli not a top 5 QB? Cruz n Nicks aren't both in that tier of WRs behind the top 3 who are all deserving of a top 5 spot? Your point is cute, but ultimately flawed because somebody's a fan of a team that has the 5th best player at his position.

Sloopy
05-05-2012, 05:53 PM
Woodson is not a top 5 cornerback, or even a top 10 cornerback. He doesnt even play as a cornerback half the time.

He's a top 5 defensive playmaker though.

See this is where it is hard to grade him. I agree that he is more of a playmaker than a CB (might not put him top 5 though... then again maybe, would have to think about it)

His production was above that of almost any other CB in this league.