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Razor
05-02-2012, 07:24 AM
With the 2012 NFL Draft in the books it's time to turn our attention to the 2013 NFL Draft. SI has posted its first mock draft (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andrew_perloff/05/01/2013.nfl.mock.draft/index.html) where we get Star Lotulelei. This is my dream scenario at this point since I'd love to stay in the 4-3 and add a dynamic presence next to Wilfork. I think he'll end up being a top 10 player though. As for my wish list for next year's draft check my sig throughout the year.

Vaylor
05-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Robert Lester falling to the 3rd round seems unrealistic.

Razor
05-02-2012, 04:05 PM
Robert Lester falling to the 3rd round seems unrealistic.

Why is that exactly? He has limited athletic ability and inconsistent tackling ability so that might push him further down. Especially in what looks to be a strong safety class next year. I'm currently working on my pre season rankings and for safeties they look like this:

S
1. David Amerson, North Carolina State Wolfpack #1
2. Eric Reid, LSU Tigers #
3. Kenny Vaccaro, Texas Longhorns #
4. Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma Sooners #
5. Bacarri Rambo, Georgia Bulldogs #
6. Tyrann Mathieu, LSU Tigers #7
7. Matt Elam, Florida Gators #
8. TJ McDonald, USC Trojans #
9. Robert Lester, Alabama Crimson Tide #
10. Ray Ray Armstrong, Miami Hurricans #26

Matthew Jones
05-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Why is that exactly? He has limited athletic ability and inconsistent tackling ability so that might push him further down. Especially in what looks to be a strong safety class next year. I'm currently working on my pre season rankings and for safeties they look like this:

S
1. David Amerson, North Carolina State Wolfpack #1
2. Eric Reid, LSU Tigers #
3. Kenny Vaccaro, Texas Longhorns #
4. Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma Sooners #
5. Bacarri Rambo, Georgia Bulldogs #
6. Tyrann Mathieu, LSU Tigers #7
7. Matt Elam, Florida Gators #
8. TJ McDonald, USC Trojans #
9. Robert Lester, Alabama Crimson Tide #
10. Ray Ray Armstrong, Miami Hurricans #26

Where would Tavon Wilson rank in there?

descendency
05-03-2012, 06:58 PM
That's pretty nice that we get a premiere player that low. Premiere? you ask... yes. Todd McShay thinks he might go #1 overall.

Razor
05-04-2012, 12:44 AM
Where would Tavon Wilson rank in there?

I'm pretty sure he'd be number one due to his special teams capabilities... ;)


I'm working on my rankings right and tweaking here and there. My hope is to post a top ten for each position within a month or so but the depends on how things are going with my masters thesis.


That's pretty nice that we get a premiere player that low. Premiere? you ask... yes. Todd McShay thinks he might go #1 overall.

I'm not sure who you're talking about, but if it's Lester Todd McShay is officially insane.

descendency
05-04-2012, 06:00 AM
I'm not sure who you're talking about, but if it's Lester Todd McShay is officially insane.

Star Lotulelei, NT, Utah.

descendency
05-04-2012, 06:01 AM
Robert Lester falling to the 3rd round seems unrealistic.

So does Barrett Jones (OT, Alabama) being anywhere near where NE drafts in the first round.

Razor
05-04-2012, 06:44 AM
So does Barrett Jones (OT, Alabama) being anywhere near where NE drafts in the first round.

And if we go back one year having Fletcher Cox in the top 15 and Coples and Paige-Moss out of the top 15 was idiocy defined. Barrett is moving to center this year and will likely be drafted as an interior OL. Bama has a studly O-line this year with Cyrus Kouandjio moving to LT. So let's not pretend like it's out of the realm of possibility that we get Jones.

descendency
05-04-2012, 12:56 PM
And if we go back one year having Fletcher Cox in the top 15 and Coples and Paige-Moss out of the top 15 was idiocy defined. Barrett is moving to center this year and will likely be drafted as an interior OL. Bama has a studly O-line this year with Cyrus Kouandjio moving to LT. So let's not pretend like it's out of the realm of possibility that we get Jones.

He is??? He was a premiere LT...

:confuse:

Razor
05-04-2012, 01:01 PM
He is??? He was a premiere LT...

:confuse:

I know, but CK is a huge, athletic LT that they can't have on the bench. Between CK, Jones, Fluker and Warmack that's probably the best OL in the NCAA although Vols has a lot of talent as well.

descendency
05-09-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm currently working on my pre season rankings and for safeties they look like this:

S
1. David Amerson, North Carolina State Wolfpack #1
2. Eric Reid, LSU Tigers #
3. Kenny Vaccaro, Texas Longhorns #
4. Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma Sooners #
5. Bacarri Rambo, Georgia Bulldogs #
6. Tyrann Mathieu, LSU Tigers #7
7. Matt Elam, Florida Gators #
8. TJ McDonald, USC Trojans #
9. Robert Lester, Alabama Crimson Tide #
10. Ray Ray Armstrong, Miami Hurricans #26

I'd list Amerson as a corner over safety. He played all over the field for NC State, but I think his best games came at boundary corner.

Matthew Jones
05-09-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm thinking New England will go for a wide receiver in this upcoming draft unless there is a top five-technique available. A cornerback would make sense as well if Devin McCourty has another poor season or Ras-I Dowling ends up on I.R. again.

descendency
05-09-2012, 10:00 PM
I'm interested to see how our guard situation shakes out. We could easily be targeting one of them in the first as well.

Don Vito
05-09-2012, 10:07 PM
Barrett Jones is a guy who I like a lot. He can play all over the line and is just a beast. Keep looking at the Bama and LSU guys, the next few years they will continue to churn out top notch NFL talent.

Don Vito
05-09-2012, 10:11 PM
I like how we finally picked a lot of guys from big football schools this year. Bama, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Illinois/Syracuse to an extent. This draft was so uncharacteristic of our recent drafts but I like it.

Razor
05-10-2012, 02:14 AM
I'd list Amerson as a corner over safety. He played all over the field for NC State, but I think his best games came at boundary corner.

I have him listed as my top corner as well, but like Malcolm Jenkins I think some teams will look at him as a FS.

Matthew Jones
05-10-2012, 10:50 AM
I'm interested to see how our guard situation shakes out. We could easily be targeting one of them in the first as well.

I think the interior depth looks pretty strong this year (PFF 2011 +/- in parenthesis):

LG: Logan Mankins (0.4) - Robert Gallery (-21.5) - Ryan Wendell (5.1)

C: Dan Connolly (-3.1) - Dan Koppen (5.6*) - Nick McDonald (0.5)

RG: Brian Waters (20.2) - Marcus Cannon (0.1) - Donald Thomas (0.3)

* denotes 2010

Wendell is the real surprise on that list for me, he played very well over 360 snaps and played LG, C, RG, and even one at FB. Gallery's grade is terrible (especially considering he missed four games) and makes me wonder if the Patriots wouldn't be better off cutting him and moving forwards with six interior linemen (Mankins, Wendell, Connolly, Koppen, Waters, Cannon.) Dante Scarnecchia may be able to do something with Gallery but focusing on developing a 32 year-old offensive lineman may be a waste of time when there are some promising backups on the team with a lot of experience in the system. Wendell and Connolly can play guard or center and Cannon can play guard or right tackle so there is some versatility on the Patriots' line.

Razor
06-02-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm thinking New England will go for a wide receiver in this upcoming draft unless there is a top five-technique available. A cornerback would make sense as well if Devin McCourty has another poor season or Ras-I Dowling ends up on I.R. again.

I doubt that BB would go back to the 3-4 given his selections in this year's draft. I think safety will be high on the list of needs next year too, but receiver is my number one need for this team going into this season. Ocho is probably going to get cut, Branch might be gone too. Welker is playing a dangerous game right now and I'm starting to doubt whether BB will want him back unless it's a very team friendly deal. Lloyd has reportedly looked great in OTAs, but even if he's a great receiver this year for us we need something across from him. I really like Marquess Wilson right now. I think he could fall a bit if he doesn't live up to what he did last year, but I really like his long frame, deceptive speed and very good hands. His ability to make plays on the sideline and in the end zone intrigues the **** out of me. Of course there are other, bigger names at receiver next year, but I doubt that we'll have a shot at Woods, Allen or Hunter (if he's declaring). Da'rick Rodgers is an interesting name for us, so is Tavon Austin. From my point of view next year's receiver class could shape up to be extremely good wrt. classical number one receivers, but also other types. And since safety and WR looks to be our greatest needs I hope BB will make a splash again next year and secure some talent for us.

At this point I'm all for trading Welker mid season if he hasn't signed a new deal yet. If we can get a second rounder for him I'd be thrilled.

AntoinCD
09-11-2012, 04:42 AM
So, with a week of the NFL season gone and two of college football what do you guys think right now?

I gotta believe the Pats will target an interior offensive lineman early in the draft. Chance Warmack, Barrett Jones and Khaled Holmes should all be close to the range the Pats are picking in the first.

Although one guy to keep an eye on is Bjoern Werner. He would be a base LE for the Pats and a huge upgrade over Ninkovich and give us a studly d-line of Jones, Wilfork, Love and Werner.

Thoughts?

Razor
09-11-2012, 05:55 AM
I think we're pretty much in agreement Antoin. :) My priority list right now would be:

1. Interior OL
2. LDE
3. WR
4. Safety
5. Offensive tackle

Obviosuly it looks like we in the bottom of the first come april, so players that I like who look like they're going in that range would be:
Bjoern Werner (a slight reach)
Marquess Wilson
Robert Woods (maybe)

Chance Warmack and Barrett Jones are my early personal favorites, but I think they'll be long gone when we're making our first pick unfortunately. :(

Razor
10-14-2012, 05:31 PM
So... Which SS do you guys want come april? Chung is a complete disaster.

Nalej
10-14-2012, 06:21 PM
Doesn't matter. Ebner and Wilson both at S at the same time is unacceptable.

Razor
10-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Yeah, that was a bad call. However, all DBs besides Wilson looked like horseshit today. This was just a terrible effort by the DBs.

descendency
10-14-2012, 09:34 PM
Yeah, that was a bad call. However, all DBs besides Wilson looked like horseshit today. This was just a terrible effort by the DBs.

Except Ras-I Dowling...

*frustrated*

Babylon
10-14-2012, 10:46 PM
I think when you have a collective crappy unit back there you're almost better off going for another pass rusher. When BB started bringing some pressure today the Pats were pretty much controlling the game. Where they'll be drafting they probably can't expect much help for the secondary.

Matthew Jones
10-14-2012, 10:53 PM
Here's how the forum mock has gone thus far:

1. OL Barrett Jones, Alabama (6'5", 310)

2. DE Cornellius Carradine, Florida St. (6'4", 265)

3. WR Cobi Hamilton, Arkansas (6'3", 210)

We've got two fourth-round picks left.

Razor
10-17-2012, 10:51 AM
I just read a mock at Walterfootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php). I wish I never had... So stupid...

The Patriots are getting no interior pass rush. Vince Wilfork, turning 31 soon, is not having a good season and appears to be declining. Kyle Love, meanwhile, has been a non-factor for the most part. Sylvester Williams has been dominant for North Carolina this year. He has the size that Bill Belichick likes in his defensive linemen.

Don Vito
10-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Even a 5 year old knows that is bs. I watched Wilfork almost chase down Leon Washington last week who is literally half his size. Wilfork is one of the best in the league and Love has emerged as a very good player for us.

Babylon
10-17-2012, 12:59 PM
I just read a mock at Walterfootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php). I wish I never had... So stupid...

Not sure Walters mock draft constitutes a reliable source. I thought the defense line looked good against Seattle. Did a great job on Marshawn Lunch and i thought they got a pretty good push up the middle. The problem was except for the times when they brought a backer or a safety they weren'
t able to keep Wilson from scrambling outside and hurting them.

On a slightly related topic, if they can't cover in the secondary their best chance is going to be going after the QB with more than the base front. It's probably going to result in a big play here or there but right now they have no chance when it's left to the back end of the defense.

cmarq83
10-17-2012, 02:31 PM
I would say VW is not having as good of a season as last year, but I think that has more to do with the fact that he had a renaissance year last year, and it's tough to stay at that level even if he's still playing at a pro bowl level. Kyle Love hasn't taken that next step I was hoping he would, but in my estimation he's still a plus player at that position. I agree we need to try to get an interior rusher, but I think that is too high of a pick when we only need a rotational rusher.

descendency
10-17-2012, 11:52 PM
I just read a mock at Walterfootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php). I wish I never had... So stupid...

He's right about the interior pass rush part. I disagree with the Wilfork and Love not playing well part, though.

Chandler Jones is the only guy on this team that can beat a 1 on 1 block consistently in the pass rush.

descendency
10-17-2012, 11:54 PM
The problem was except for the times when they brought a backer or a safety they weren't able to keep Wilson from scrambling outside and hurting them.

If a QB is (consistently) getting enough time to get out of the pocket (save for designed plays), the DL isn't doing their job.

Razor
10-31-2012, 06:10 AM
Since my status has changed from student to unemployed I now have lots of time watching college ball. I've come up with my dream draft for the Patriots, although I admit that it's not likely to happen. Let me know what you think!

1. Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU
I think Ansah has the potential to go a lot higher than where we'll be picking come april. However, his perceived value right now is probably as a solid second round pick. When the combine rolls around we'll be hearing everyone comparing this guy to JPP. He's big, has great natural strength and is just a phenomenal athlete. Motor is non-stop. I really like the prospects of having Jones at LDE and Ansah at RDE. Ansah also lines up as a 3-tech and even at nose tackle for BYU. So he's very versatile and has great awareness.

2. Marqess Wilson, WR, Washington State
To be completely honest with you, I think that Wilson is one of the two best draft eligible receivers in this draft. The other guy I like is Cordarrelle Patterson. I'm not sure why Wilson isn't getting any hype right now. It might be because he's the only good player on that team. However, he's a poor man's Randy Moss. He has a tall, lanky frame, deceptive speed and great hands. He does have the occasional drop that makes you go "WTF!?", but he more than makes up for it with all the other great catches he makes. He's also more than willing to catch balls over the middle and will win most jump balls with ease. He's just a terrific WR imo.

3. Justin Tuggle, LB, Kansas State
After having watched some K-State games I started to really like Tuggle. I'm very pleased with our situation at LB as you all know, but all our linebackers do have a history of getting nagging injuries. Tuggle has nice size, very good athleticism and great instincts. His motor is non-stop and he's a pretty good tackler.

4a. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
Rambo isn't here just because of his name, although that might have something to do with it. He's a playmaker who's always around the ball. I'm not sure about his football IQ, but so far I want him help fix this pass defense.

4b. Ray Graham, RB, Pitt
This is mostly a value pick. I doubt that Woody will be back next year which leaves us a bit thin at RB. Graham is a very solid allround player who'll end up making some team very happy. I want that team to be the NE Patriots.

AntoinCD
10-31-2012, 09:56 AM
With the exception of Rambo I can't really argue about any player, however I would want to get an interior offensive lineman early.

Thomas, Mankins, Wendell and Connolly are a good core, however Connolly is injury prone. Mankins has been playing through injuries (until this season when he has sat). I would like to get a stud guy at OG to bolster depth and look to the future. Chance Warmack is a wet dream but Barrett Jones and Jonathan Cooper are two guys that can be had.

I love the upside of Ansah, however I would prefer Jones to play RE with Ansah as a LE similar to Justin Tuck for us.

Wilson I am ok on in the second although I would prefer other guys. Tavon Austin is the guy I would like right now in the second at WR.

Don Vito
10-31-2012, 10:24 AM
You would be upset if we got Rambo in the fourth round? I
Understand some people on here don't like him but he would be nice value there. I think that draft would be amazing.

AntoinCD
10-31-2012, 10:35 AM
You would be upset if we got Rambo in the fourth round? I
Understand some people on here don't like him but he would be nice value there. I think that draft would be amazing.

It's ok value but I honestly don't see him as an upgrade over what's on the roster. Rambo reminds me of a poor man's Patrick Chung.

Put it this way, if McCourty stays at safety long term I don't think we need a safety. McCourty is and will be a stud at safety. Gregory would be ok beside him while Wilson and/or Ebner learn the nuances. CB at that point becomes a need though.

Rambo is a guy who goes for the knockout hit too often and takes horrendous angles. In an ideal world (value and need) if the Pats take a safety I would like Elam in the 3rd

descendency
10-31-2012, 11:23 AM
Rambo reminds me of Brandon Meriweather. He thinks he's a playmaker, but he's a liability more often. He takes bad angles.

cmarq83
10-31-2012, 11:25 AM
It's ok value but I honestly don't see him as an upgrade over what's on the roster. Rambo reminds me of a poor man's Patrick Chung.

Put it this way, if McCourty stays at safety long term I don't think we need a safety. McCourty is and will be a stud at safety. Gregory would be ok beside him while Wilson and/or Ebner learn the nuances. CB at that point becomes a need though.

Rambo is a guy who goes for the knockout hit too often and takes horrendous angles. In an ideal world (value and need) if the Pats take a safety I would like Elam in the 3rd

What could have possibly given you any indication that McCourty is and will be a stud at safety? He's been pretty mediocre thus far in his career there.

Razor
10-31-2012, 11:32 AM
Rambo reminds me of Brandon Meriweather. He thinks he's a playmaker, but he's a liability more often. He takes bad angles.

This is actually true. I pondered Elam a lot, but I have a hard time figuring out his value. I love him as a player, but the whole size thing really bother me. He's a bit like Ahmad Black. Great football player, but can he play in the NFL? I'd take Elam over Rambo easily, but not before the fourth. And I have doubts that he'll last to the fourth round.

cmarq83
10-31-2012, 11:36 AM
This is actually true. I pondered Elam a lot, but I have a hard time figuring out his value. I love him as a player, but the whole size thing really bother me. He's a bit like Ahmad Black. Great football player, but can he play in the NFL? I'd take Elam over Rambo easily, but not before the fourth. And I have doubts that he'll last to the fourth round.

I Agree with ^^

I think the way Elam plays isn't conducive to his size. We already have a problem with a certain smallish safety who is always injured, and I don't like the prospect of having an even smaller guy trying to play the same way. I still like his game though, just not sure how long it will last in the NFL.

AntoinCD
10-31-2012, 11:47 AM
What could have possibly given you any indication that McCourty is and will be a stud at safety? He's been pretty mediocre thus far in his career there.

I don't see how you can say he has been mediocre either. McCourty has awesome range and make up speed. Hell the long TD the Rams got McCourty was closer making a play than Wilson was despite McCourty having a completely different assignment.

I am starting to think it is just something you have against McCourty. You stated previously he was a mediocre CB as well, despite the fact that he was having a great year that was slightly marked by a poor few plays against Baltimore.

Don Vito
10-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Elam is not tall but I would not say he is small. He has some bulk and is way bigger than Ahmad Black. His style of play reminds me of Polamalu. We've had some tough luck at safety but remember we have had an anemic pass rush for years as well as some terrible corner play. There aren't many elite safeties in this league and there is a reason for it, it seems like if a guy isn't Ed Reed you don't want any part of him. I get the frustration but who do you guys like at safety if you aren't high on Elam and hate Rambo?

Razor
10-31-2012, 02:05 PM
I like Lester in the third or fourth round, but I think he might end up going earlier than that. Kenny Vaccaro is another safety that I like. I just don't want to invest a high draft pick in a safety next year since there doesn't seem to be anyone worth it. Eric Reid will end up getting overdrafted by a whole lot. He's really not that good. Vaughn Telemaque is another player that I like, but that would have to be as an UDFA...

Don Vito
10-31-2012, 02:44 PM
I am not a Vaccaro fan personally. Reid is going to be a very good player in this league but he will be drafted in the top 15, he reminds me a lot of Barron coming out last year. Good size, tough, and a lot of tools but some questions about coverage abilities.

cmarq83
10-31-2012, 03:11 PM
I don't see how you can say he has been mediocre either. McCourty has awesome range and make up speed. Hell the long TD the Rams got McCourty was closer making a play than Wilson was despite McCourty having a completely different assignment.

I am starting to think it is just something you have against McCourty. You stated previously he was a mediocre CB as well, despite the fact that he was having a great year that was slightly marked by a poor few plays against Baltimore.

Listen I understand that cornerbacks are an easy target, but I honestly think it's time to readjust our expectations on McCourty. The guy had a fantastic rookie year which was pretty much the antithesis to what we were expecting based on what the book was on him coming out. I think he can be a consistent contributor in our secondary, but he's simply not their yet.

He's played what 4 games at safety, and took a lot of inconsistent angles from that spot last year. He had a good game like most of the secondary on Sunday, but we shouldn't jump the gun on where he's at long term yet. He hasn't set the world on fire, or really made any plays from his safety spot yet. We'll have to wait until teams start challenging him to see where he really is. When you use the word stud it elicits comparisons to guys who are actually studs from that spot, and clearly McCourty is nowhere near that level.

He has played better at cornerback so far this year, but has been beaten when it has counted in numerous situations not just the Baltimore game. I think mediocre is a fair description of his play. Not terrible like last year, but nothing exceptional like his rookie season.

Lets just call him what he is at this point an inconsistent player who has some versatility. We all hope for more from him, but if you go back and read what's been said the past year+ has been a collection of overhype and excuses.

descendency
10-31-2012, 03:52 PM
McCourty is playing bad at safety, because he's a CB. However, our CBs are deeper than our safeties, so we need him to play safety.

descendency
10-31-2012, 03:52 PM
I am not a Vaccaro fan personally. Reid is going to be a very good player in this league but he will be drafted in the top 15, he reminds me a lot of Barron coming out last year. Good size, tough, and a lot of tools but some questions about coverage abilities.

LSU's Reid? He's been terrible this year.

Don Vito
10-31-2012, 05:02 PM
He hasn't had the year people expected out of him but I still think he will get drafted high and be a very good pro safety

descendency
10-31-2012, 07:40 PM
He sucks at coverage. He's a good run stopper, but he's being exposed now that LSU's secondary isn't basically loaded with first rounders.

RLundgaard
11-01-2012, 03:45 AM
I liked this year's draft. For the first time in many years we were aggressive and traded up. We addressed to major need. Chandler Jones aka pass rush and LB aka Hightower. These 2 players has made an in packed from day one and improved our defense a lot.

I would like to see us addressing more talent at defense next April, because I think we got plenty of playmakers on offence. Brady, Gronk, Hernandez, Riley, Lloyd (Maybe Welker) + solid and young O-Line.

descendency
12-13-2012, 10:19 AM
Sharrif Floyd and Jordan Reid both will likely declare.

Both should be high priority targets for NE.

Vaylor
12-13-2012, 04:04 PM
Sharrif Floyd and Jordan Reed both will likely declare.

Both should be high priority targets for NE.

Three TEs huh? That would be interesting.

descendency
12-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Three TEs huh? That would be interesting.

He's a guy that could play split out wide or tight on the line. Move him back in the backfield or in the slot. He's crazy athletic, like Hernandez. He could be a WR without actually drafting a WR.

Blackluck
12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
I think we're pretty much in agreement Antoin. :) My priority list right now would be:

1. Interior OL
2. LDE
3. WR
4. Safety
5. Offensive tackle

Obviosuly it looks like we in the bottom of the first come april, so players that I like who look like they're going in that range would be:
Bjoern Werner (a slight reach)
Marquess Wilson
Robert Woods (maybe)

Chance Warmack and Barrett Jones are my early personal favorites, but I think they'll be long gone when we're making our first pick unfortunately. :(

How would everyone rate the team needs now?
The above is still mostly accurate IMO with the exception of CB, either being added to or supplanting safety. I'm not sure though what position would be the priority targets for Rd 1 and 2. Seems we draft DBs every year to no avail, but given our needs I think I'd prefer to go FA for WR (and/or resign Welker/Edelman) to take that position off the draft boards - and once again draft a DB early (this even if signing Talib, which I think should be a priority.)

descendency
01-13-2013, 08:49 PM
Anyone else want Jelani Jenkins in NE to play coverage backer? His stock is going to be really low because of injuries and whatnot. I personally think he can cover really well and he could be used on special teams as well.

nepg
01-13-2013, 11:03 PM
How would everyone rate the team needs now?
The above is still mostly accurate IMO with the exception of CB, either being added to or supplanting safety. I'm not sure though what position would be the priority targets for Rd 1 and 2. Seems we draft DBs every year to no avail, but given our needs I think I'd prefer to go FA for WR (and/or resign Welker/Edelman) to take that position off the draft boards - and once again draft a DB early (this even if signing Talib, which I think should be a priority.)
Interior DL seems pretty strong with Deaderick and Love playing the second NT role next to Wilfork. That said, John Jenkins or Jesse Williams would be amazing fits.

They always take a DB or two, but I don't see it as a need this year. I've really liked how this group has developed. Keeping Talib will be key for the Pats. He really completes that unit. That said, there are some really talented DBs at the top of the draft.

More competition at DE would be nice. Looks like a deep class for it, too. A guy I'd like to see them draft as someone who could play Nink's role and just be a really valuable and versatile player is Kiko Alonso. He's really stood out in every game I've watched him in. He's a boss.

WR is always a topic of conversation, especially with the injuries they went through this past season.

I just really like the team they have, and don't see many holes - providing the young players keep getting incrementally better as they've shown they are capable of doing. The Pats will literally be in a position to draft the very best player available. I also think this is a good draft for them to take another stab at QB. Lots of unrefined talent...perfect for a team like the Pats who aren't relying on any QB they draft to amount to anything.

RWills
01-15-2013, 08:24 AM
I think our needs is
DT - need an upgrade to Deadrick who can stuff and pressure
WR - Obvious that Branch is done, Edleman needs to prove a 16 game season though he seem to develop into a much bigger role than anyone expeted. That leaves just Brandon Lloyd with Welker a FA.
DB - Won't know until FA, I expect Chung to depart and Talib is essential I would franchise him over Welker imo. Can't count on Dowling so anything from him is extra, so we could go S, CB or both.
LB - Coverage LB, someone with speed to replace White and play mostly in nickel situations. Not sure what happens with Spikes with FA
OL - Depends on what happens to Volmer in FA, if leaves OT would be a need, a C/OG combo player is needed as Connoly's concussion problems worry me longterm with his availability.

WR - I think is deep
1st round
-Cordarrelle Patterson - won't have a chiance to get him unless we trade up
-Keenan Allen - Have a shot to get him, good downfield receiver
-DeAndre Hopkins - Will have a shot to get him great after the catch, really like him, a little raw
-Justin Hunter - Has the look and make-up to be a top 10 pick but struggles with drops
-Tavon Austin - Percy Harvin light
2nd-3rd round
-Robert Woods - reminds me of a Jabar Gaffney but smaller
-Terrance Williams - Tall vertical threat
-Da'Rick Rogers - red flagged, could be a top 15 pick if head was on right
-Quinton Patton - great hands, good routes
-Denard Robinson - Former Michigan QB
-Stedman Bailey
-Aaron Dobson
-Markus Wheaton
-Marquess Wilson - Another very talented WR kicked off team
4th, 5th round
-Kenny Stills
-Aaron Mellette
-Ryan Swope - Eric Decker Light
-Cobi Hamilton - My Sleeper
-Joyce Boyce
-Theo Riddick - Tavon Austin Light
-Chris Harper
-Marcus Davis - Looks like a TO type, struggled with drops, sleeper
-Rodney Smith - Sleeper pick, if played on vertical offense could be a 2nd rounder
-Duron Carter - Chris Carters son has his fathers attitude

OL - guys who play mulitple positions
-Barrett Jones - Can play all 5 positions
-Dallas Thomas - played OT, better suited at OG
-Oday Aboushi - Can play RT or OG
-Xavier Nixon - Can play both OT and OG
-Brian Winters - OT/OG
-Manase Foketi - Sleeper
-Graham Pocic - OG/C
-ames Ferentz - The Ferentz name/Iowa OL

DT - need more pressure up the middle im base defense
-Star Lotulelei - wont get him
-Sheldon Richardson - Won't last
-Jonathan Hankins - Could fall, new Ohio St connection
-John Jenkins - Can Penetrate, but bad stanima
-Jessee Williams - Doesn't offer much penetration
-Sharrif Floyd - Played DE last year, played DT this year verstaile, a fav of mine
-Sylvester Williams - Can take over games when his head is in the game
-Bennie Logan - Another versatile 3-tech pass rusher
-Kawaan Short - loads of tackle for losses, great value for deep DT class

LB - need a nickel LB
-Kaseem Green - former S makes plays sideline to sideline, can cover TE's and RB's
-Kevin Minter/Arthur Brown - smaller faster MLB's better in coverage
-Jelani Jenkins - Might be best cover LB in draf6t and could be had for a 3rd or 4th because he doesn't take on blockers and had injury plagued year.
-DeVonte Holloman/Kenny Tate - Former safities now LB's who can play ST and have better coverage abilites than LB currently on the team.

CB - No real standouts other than Milliner who we won't have a chance to get
-Xavier Rhodes/Jonathan Banks - Bigger physical press corners have to answer their speed questions.
-Jordan Poyer/Logan Ryan/Jamar Taylor/Will Davis - Good sized/speed cover corners all available in round 2
-David Amerson/Sanders Commings - big phyiscal CB's who struggle flipping hips, could be safties
-Tharold Simon - very long, good coverage, afraid of contact
-Blidi Wreh-Wilson/Desmond Trufant/Robert Alford/Micah Hyde - Good sized/speed cover corners all available in round 3 & 4
-Tyrann Mathieu/Nickell Robey/Terry Hawthorne - smaller, aggresive cover corners available in round 3 & 4

S - Would love to upgrade Gregory, not sure Wilson is starter or sub package, deeper than most years
1st round
-Kenny Vaccaro - top S, can cover and play run
-Matt Elam - Aggressive not sure if he is Ed Reed or Brandon Meriweather, I really like him though
2nd, 3rd round
-Eric Reid - Athletic and hard hitter in run game, struggles in coverage
-Shawn Williams - A big safety but a leader and playmaker, struggles in coverage
-Phillip Thomas - Emerged as a big playmaker coming off of a missed season
-Tony Jefferson - A true centerfielder
-DJ Swearinger - Reminds me of TJ Ward, very hard hitter and playmaker
-Shamarko Thomas
- TJ McDonald - don't like him, bad angles, doesn't wrap up
- Bacarri Rambo - Has to answer speed questions
- Robert Lester - Good at the line or zone, struggles in man coverage

Vaylor
01-15-2013, 10:28 PM
Brandon Spikes won't be a UFA until 2014.

Blackluck
01-16-2013, 04:10 AM
Great list RWills
I'm hoping they sign Armstead (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8840124/armond-armstead-formerly-toronto-argonauts-nfl-teams-radar-sources) who they brought in for a workout and also scouted last year. He can play DE or DT. If they do, then WR (Patterson or Hopkins) or S (Elam) with the first pick, depending on who is available. Looks to me like there is more value for CB in rd 2. I wouldn't be against Cooper there either. Maybe Hunt or Green, although a first round for a cover LB seems too early. Much depends on FA though. Trading down and getting an extra 3 or a one or two next year also works.

nepg
01-20-2013, 12:51 AM
If they're looking at safeties, Eric Reid will be #1 on Belichick's board.

They're deep enough at DT and run enough sub packages to not have to worry about John Jenkins's gas tank. He'll have time to improve that. He's probably not the sexy pick (maybe he is), but that's who I most want them to draft. I'm happy with their current group of DT's, but I worry if something ever happens to Wilfork.

I've given up on them drafting a WR, but I'd love Stedman Bailey on this team.

nepg
01-20-2013, 02:47 AM
A more thorough breakdown...
QB
Brady
Mallett
*Kafka

No need here, but this is a good draft class to find one with either one of the 7th round picks or via UDFA.

RB
Ridley
Vereen
Bolden

Woodhead is a free agent. They'll want to re-sign him. Not much available in the draft, but I imagine they'll find a UDFA

WR
Lloyd

Serious issues here. Need to re-sign Welker and Edelman and they'll still have a need at the position when they do that. Should use one of their first 3 picks on WR.

TE
Gronkowski
Hernandez
+Hoomanawanui
Fells
Ballard

They're well-off in this department. Obviously.

OL
Solder (LT)
Mankins (LG)
Wendell (C)
Connolly (RG)
Cannon
McDonald

Need to re-sign Vollmer. They don't have the resources to replace him. If they don't re-sign Vollmer and/or Cannon can't play RG, they need to spend one of their first 3 picks on OL.

DL
Ninkovich (DE)
Deaderick (DT)
Wilfork (DT)
Jones (DE)
Cunningham
Love
Francis
Forston
Bequette
*Benard

They aren't losing anything along the DL. They need the backup DEs to step it up next season. It'd be nice to upgrade DT, but they love Deaderick and Love and can bring Ron Brace back if they need to.

LB
Hightower
Mayo
Spikes
Rivera
+Fletcher

Special teamers Koutouvides and White are UFAs. Could be brought back easily. Not much that can be done for LB in the draft with so few resources available to them.

DB
McCourty (S)
Gregory (S)
Dennard (CB)
Wilson
Dowling
Ebner

The secondary has looked really good with Talib. They absolutely have to re-sign him. He should be their #1 priority this off-season. It's probably time to let Chung go and probably Arrington as well if he doesn't come super cheap. They absolutely need to draft a CB and it'd be nice if they could find a way to draft a S as well.

So, having broken down the roster, my previous desire for a big physical DT is outweighed by the needs of this team combined with the lack of draft picks.

The team has to re-sign its own players. Absolutely have to bring back Woodhead, Welker, Edelman, Vollmer, and Talib. If they do that, they're left with CB, S, and WR as the primary targets for their first 3 draft picks. CB probably being the highest priority even with Talib since their depth is weak and you can't trust Dowling to ever get/stay healthy.

Rough mock...
1. Logan Ryan, CB, Rutgers
2. Stedman Bailey, WR, West Virginia
3. Robert Lester, S, Alabama
7. James Ferentz, C, Iowa
7. Patrick Ward, T, Northwestern

Blackluck
01-20-2013, 04:19 AM
The lack of draft choices shows we're really going to need to trade down if at all possible to pick up some extra picks. The Mallett rumors are interesting - Mallett and our 1 to Cleveland for their 1st, which I can't see happening - but maybe something can be done there given the weak crop of QB's this year.

Anyway, since we can't cover TEs or RBs and still struggle on third down, I'd rank a cover LB or some sort of safety/LB hybrid as pretty high on the need list, along with speed at the WR position. We can also improve our pass rush, but it's hard to find that where we are picking. So yeah, I essentially agree with your three positions there nepg.

Matthew Jones
01-20-2013, 09:20 AM
Patriots/Ravens preview:

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/01/baltimore-ravens-at-new-england-patriots-ten-keys-to-the-afc-championship-game.html

proshoota25
01-20-2013, 10:19 AM
good talk guys. if im the pats, im targeting WR, but not until the second round. the depth in this draft is absolutely crazy. im only taking a WR in the first if it is patterson or allen.

i dont think the pats will go after eric reid. i think the most likely choice is matt elam, who seems to have a lot of pat chung/brandon meriweather in his game (Which kinda blows for us)

personally, I want another DL in the first. a guy like shariff floyd jumps off the tape for me. he would be my pick. i could see us picking a jesse williams or a john jenkins as well

nepg
01-20-2013, 11:12 AM
The lack of draft choices shows we're really going to need to trade down if at all possible to pick up some extra picks. The Mallett rumors are interesting - Mallett and our 1 to Cleveland for their 1st, which I can't see happening - but maybe something can be done there given the weak crop of QB's this year.

Anyway, since we can't cover TEs or RBs and still struggle on third down, I'd rank a cover LB or some sort of safety/LB hybrid as pretty high on the need list, along with speed at the WR position. We can also improve our pass rush, but it's hard to find that where we are picking. So yeah, I essentially agree with your three positions there nepg.

They might have that guy in either a healthy Fletcher or an expanded role for Ebner.

Razor
01-21-2013, 04:19 PM
I'm doing a forum mock on another site. So far this is the Patriot draft:

Trade down: Minnesota Vikings gives up #43 +#101 +#181. Patriots give up #31.

43: Corey Lemonier
63: Marcus Lattimore

What'd you think? Lattimore was only because of his value and the fact that I expect him to come back in 2014 with a vengeance.

Babylon
01-21-2013, 04:25 PM
My top 3 picks would be:

1. Ezekial Ansah, DE BYU
2. Robert Woods, wr USC
3. Cooper Taylor, S Richmond

Razor
01-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Well, neither Ansah or Woods were available when I was picking.

Blackluck
01-23-2013, 07:18 AM
We signed Armond Armstead - that's like a free draft choice. Unless someone unexpectedly falls, I think we might can take DT/DE off the board for early round picks.

FlyingElvis
01-23-2013, 10:30 AM
That's good news. DE / DL depth with potential to be a starter is always nice without having to spend the draft capital.

I'm on board the 'resign Talib' train. It definitely looks like the type of year where we need to keep all of our FA talent. I think the priorities have to be Kyle Arrington, Julian Edelman, Dane Fletcher, Michael Hoomanawanui, Aqib Talib, and Sebastian Vollmer. (Not in that order.)

Welker would be nice but I'm not expecting it to happen. As I mentioned in the team thread, I think the market will be soft but all it takes is one team backing up the Brinks Truck and he's gone. Amendola and Welker may just swap teams this offseason . . .


As always, I want to see us draft true pass rush help. DL and off the edges. Safety is next in line (though I do like what I saw from Tavon so I could see that position being filled if he progresses well through the offseason.) WR is clearly a big need. Welker is likely gone. Edelman is fragile. Branch and Stallworth are has-beens. I still like Lloyd.

FlyingElvis
01-23-2013, 03:26 PM
Today's fun list: WRs and DBs drafted by BB during his tenure in NE. "x" preceding a name denotes 5th round or later. Bolded are guys that have been decent or better for us (and I'm being generous.) Here's hoping he just drafts whichever guys he believes should NOT be on the board this year. It can't be much worse. lol

WR:
Brandon Tate
xJulian Edelman
xMatt Slater
Chad Jackson
xPK Sam
Bethel Johnson
Deion Branch
xDavid Givens

DB:
Patrick Chung
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Brandon Meriweather
xMike Richardson
xWillie Andrews
Ellis Hobbs
James Sanders
xChristian Morton
Guss Scott
Dexter Reid
Asante Samuel
Eugene Wilson
xHakim Akbar
xLeonard Myers
Brock Williams
xAntwan Harris

So, realistically, we want WRs in round 7 so we can get maximum results. :facepalm:

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 04:41 PM
Today's fun list: WRs and DBs drafted by BB during his tenure in NE. "x" preceding a name denotes 5th round or later. Bolded are guys that have been decent or better for us (and I'm being generous.) Here's hoping he just drafts whichever guys he believes should NOT be on the board this year. It can't be much worse. lol

WR:
Brandon Tate
xJulian Edelman
xMatt Slater
Chad Jackson
xPK Sam
Bethel Johnson
Deion Branch
xDavid Givens

DB:
Patrick Chung
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Brandon Meriweather
xMike Richardson
xWillie Andrews
Ellis Hobbs
James Sanders
xChristian Morton
Guss Scott
Dexter Reid
Asante Samuel
Eugene Wilson
xHakim Akbar
xLeonard Myers
Brock Williams
xAntwan Harris

So, realistically, we want WRs in round 7 so we can get maximum results. :facepalm:

Meriweather was at least decent for a period. Also, what about McCourty?

Jvig43
01-23-2013, 04:49 PM
Yeah saying Chung was decent is pretty damn generous.

FlyingElvis
01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
Meriweather was at least decent for a period. Also, what about McCourty?

Nice catch. I must have missed him name in the jumble of info on the draft history page.

descendency
01-25-2013, 05:40 AM
Yeah saying Chung was decent is pretty damn generous.

He had his moments. There were people that thought he was on his way as a safety to being a top 5 safety (at one point... lol).

His biggest problem has been staying healthy.

AntoinCD
01-25-2013, 07:49 AM
I'm starting to think DeAndre Hopkins is my top choice for the Pats. He's probably a low 4.4/high 4.5 guy but he can get behind a defense. His route running is fantastic. He runs nice comeback routes and we have seen the Pats incorporate a lot of back shoulder throws this year. He also runs some sick double moves. He's not as electric with the ball in his hands as Tavon Austin or Cordarrelle Patterson but he's no slouch when it cokes to yac either

Jvig43
01-25-2013, 07:59 AM
I really am not looking to encourage Mcdaniels to run the back shoulder throw plays.

Razor
01-25-2013, 08:13 AM
I'm really starting to like Marquise Goodwin from Texas and Aaron Dobson from Marshall. Another guy that I've been high on for a few year now is Marquess Wilson. All of those would do well in our offense, but I'm not sure if BB would draft them. They'd have to show that they can grasp the option route concepts that the offense employs. Playing receiver in NE is really a difficult task..

descendency
01-25-2013, 03:05 PM
Maybe he's already outside of NE's draft range, but my #1 prospect is Ezekiel Ansah. He has the skills to be incredibly dominant in the NFL at LDE.

Ansah on one side and Jones on the other.... would be nightmarish for any OL coach.

Razor
01-25-2013, 03:09 PM
I agree, but I don't think we'll get a chance to get him unless we trade up. You can't let physical talent like that drop when he's playing a position where athleticism >> everything else.

AntoinCD
01-26-2013, 10:03 AM
Maybe he's already outside of NE's draft range, but my #1 prospect is Ezekiel Ansah. He has the skills to be incredibly dominant in the NFL at LDE.

Ansah on one side and Jones on the other.... would be nightmarish for any OL coach.

Ansah would be a great choice if he somehow slides, though I think he will rise to the top 10. One guy I absolutely love, providing his kness checks out, is Tank Carradine. I like him more than Werner

Armchair Scout
01-26-2013, 11:51 AM
The Patriots could use a pure pass rushing DE to put in on passing downs at the very least. They have tons of size inside, but they could use some speed. I wouldn't mind the Pats taking Alex Okafor in the first if he is available. I must admit I am not a big fan of Ansah, but he does have potential.

Pats also could use another outside receiver. Stedman Bailey or Aaron Dobson could be really good picks in the 2nd/3rd rounds. I am not enchanted by any of the 1st round receivers, except Tavon Austin, but the Pats will likely keep either Welker or Edelman, and they don't really need any more small slot receivers.

The Pats could also use a strong safety. I like Vaccaro and Swearinger, who both can cover and defend the run, so they could definitely help the Pats secondary.

descendency
01-27-2013, 09:10 AM
I'm not a fan of Tavon Austin. He's a good pick in the 3rd or 4th round. Not the first. See the link below.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2012/futures-west-virginia-wr-tavon-austin

I recently saw a name I think might end up being a surprise first rounder or maybe second rounder for NE. Phillip Thomas, Safety, Fresno State. He has some issues to fix in the open field (he struggles with incredibly illusive backs, which NE can fix easy) but he does everything on the field and loves the film room. Lots of athletic talent. Very solid tackler. 6'1", 215 and looks like he could be 225 if he wanted.

His biggest knock is his lack of elite speed (he's probably a 4.5-4.6 guy), but the rest of his combine numbers will be very good.

One of the things that I liked when I saw him was he seemed to get better as the games went on. He adjusted very well.

edit: apparently Jonathan Cyprien had a huge week at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDxTBKjPBgQ

He is straight up beast mode in that video.

AntoinCD
01-28-2013, 08:35 AM
I'm not a fan of Tavon Austin. He's a good pick in the 3rd or 4th round. Not the first. See the link below.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2012/futures-west-virginia-wr-tavon-austin

I recently saw a name I think might end up being a surprise first rounder or maybe second rounder for NE. Phillip Thomas, Safety, Fresno State. He has some issues to fix in the open field (he struggles with incredibly illusive backs, which NE can fix easy) but he does everything on the field and loves the film room. Lots of athletic talent. Very solid tackler. 6'1", 215 and looks like he could be 225 if he wanted.

His biggest knock is his lack of elite speed (he's probably a 4.5-4.6 guy), but the rest of his combine numbers will be very good.

One of the things that I liked when I saw him was he seemed to get better as the games went on. He adjusted very well.

edit: apparently Jonathan Cyprien had a huge week at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDxTBKjPBgQ

He is straight up beast mode in that video.

Overall I don't think that's a good article. The writer states Austin can't be compared to Harvin or Cobb because he is a small WR and they aren't and uses a measurement of his own creation to determine what a small WR is. It's easier to say the guy isn' a top prospect physically when you compare him to Welker and Amendola, however he is very similar to Harvin and pretty similar to Cobb.

This background information about these other slot receivers is to underscore the point that, if Austin is truly one of the five best receiver prospects in this yearís draft class, then I believe one of these factors must apply:

1. Austinís dynamic ability approaches that of Steve Smith.
2. The NFLís offensive evolution to spread sets with hybrid players is increasing the value of slot receivers.
3. This is one of the weaker classes of senior receivers in recent years.



Steve Smith was a 4.39 guy at the combine. He is also very shifty. Austin will likely be at worst a low 4.4 guy and is also very shifty. What separates Steve Smith from others is his physicality.

The offensive evolution does show that slot receiver value has grown.

It is one of the weaker crops of senior WRs

descendency
01-28-2013, 10:44 AM
I don't think the article is great, but I think the overall point is correct: Guys like Tavon Austin don't belong in round 1. And guys like him that NE uses in their system are generally late rounders or UDFAs.

Austin isn't as big and physical as Percy Harvin. Harvin gets somehow associated with the rest of the guys from UF that have been smaller speed backs when he was a bigger and stronger RB. He's closer to Gillislee than other UF backs.

I don't have a huge problem with Austin if he's drafted in a round that makes sense for the type of talent he is, but that round is like the 3rd.

nepg
01-28-2013, 10:17 PM
Ehh... We see guys like Austin get underdrafted all the time. DeSean Jackson, Antonio Brown, Steve Smith, Wes Welker... We ridiculously large sample sizes of what these guys are capable of doing on the field. We know they're extremely fast and can make plays. We know exactly what they are - which is someone that brings the production level of a Top 15 pick - and we see them go late in the draft over and over and over again. Why? It's dumb. You know what the guy is. You know his skill set translates to today's game. You know he'll be highly productive and you pass on him until later. It's silly.

RWills
01-29-2013, 10:14 AM
DAndre Hopkins or Terrance Williams would be good first round picks but nto a fan of Williams for the 1st round, struggles underneath. Hopkins would be a great fit.

I think second round might bring more value if we can't get Hopkins with Justin Hunter, Markus Wheaton, Aaron Dobson, Da'Rick Rogers or Marquis Goodwin

I think we need a safety or CB in round 1 or 2, plenty with size and pop. With safety Vaccaro would be awesome but a trade up is needed. Elam would be greta but his size and how he plays worries me, still would spend a first round on him. Reid reminds me of Chung to much, Phillip Thomas is a playmaker but his tackliing worries me and his speed. Jonathan Cyprien would be a great 2nd round pick, he attacks, hits hard and can cover, same for JJ Wilcox of Georgia Southern a 2nd-3rd rd pick was a former WR then RB now a hard hitting safety. All 3 Georgia guys Williams, Rambo and Commings will go around 3rd-4th would be hard hitting solutions but coverage problems.

CB is another 1st-3rd round deep draft with size/speed...Trufant/Jamar Taylor/Poyer/Logan Ryan/Will Davis/Darius Slade would like nice, Banks and Wilson's grade will be combine to see is they are man or zone but they are strong at the press. Later rounds like Mathieu/Amerson/Webb/Simon/Anthony/Hawthorne/Hyde/McGee could be 3rd-5th rd, options that fit. deep with CB and S IMO

descendency
01-30-2013, 12:16 PM
Thomas may struggle with deep speed, but tackling is something that can be fixed fairly easy. The only issue I have with his tackling is that he doesn't really hit with any force (he's not going to be confused with Rodney Harrison)

Armchair Scout
02-01-2013, 12:27 AM
I really like Austin. I get that people shy away from drafting slot receivers high, but Austin is as close to as good a slot receiver as you'll find in college. I think the author in that previously cited article severely underrated Austin's speed and elusiveness. He is far superior athletically to Davone Bess and Dexter McCluster. The number of players in college football who would have scored on the 4th and 4 play against Texas can probably be counted with your fingers. Plus, Austin has outstanding hands and has shown an ability to carry the ball out of the backfield.

I'm not sure the Pats need to draft Austin, but if they aren't planning on keeping Welker, Austin would be an excellent pick.

nepg
02-01-2013, 05:49 PM
I think I'd have to put Trufant as my #1 fairly realistic target for the Pats. I think WR will be the best value in the second round and a quality safety will fall to them in the third.

descendency
02-04-2013, 03:22 PM
I think I may want John Jenkins in my top 5. You just can't coach 6'4", 360 and athletic. There are plenty of DBs in this class that are worth it, but getting quality DL and OL is very hard.

AntoinCD
02-05-2013, 08:37 AM
I think I may want John Jenkins in my top 5. You just can't coach 6'4", 360 and athletic. There are plenty of DBs in this class that are worth it, but getting quality DL and OL is very hard.

The opposite actually seems true for the Pats. Seldom do they miss on defensive linemen, and I can't remember anyone drafted even remotely highly who failed on the o line. However Belichick just can't catch a break on these DBs.

Jvig43
02-05-2013, 09:47 AM
Ron Brace.

nepg
02-05-2013, 05:50 PM
I think I may want John Jenkins in my top 5. You just can't coach 6'4", 360 and athletic. There are plenty of DBs in this class that are worth it, but getting quality DL and OL is very hard.
I'd be all about Jenkins, Jesse Williams, or Brandon Williams but I just don't think the Patriots have room to draft a DL even if they re-sign everyone they need to re-sign.

cmarq83
02-05-2013, 05:53 PM
Not sure about the hype with Jenkins. He looks every bit a 360lb type athlete to me. He's looks way more like Terrance Cody than Haloti Ngata to me.

descendency
02-05-2013, 08:20 PM
I'd be all about Jenkins, Jesse Williams, or Brandon Williams but I just don't think the Patriots have room to draft a DL even if they re-sign everyone they need to re-sign.

Jesse Williams won't be a first round pick in NE. NE won't take a guy who can't play at least 3 downs. Jesse Williams was a 2 down NT at Alabama. He has no pass rush whatsoever.

Jenkins is actually a better pass rusher (despite the size difference) than Williams.

nepg
02-05-2013, 09:55 PM
Not sure about the hype with Jenkins. He looks every bit a 360lb type athlete to me. He's looks way more like Terrance Cody than Haloti Ngata to me.
He's a lot more athletic and mobile than Cody.

Jcn92
02-16-2013, 05:05 PM
I hope that the Pats seriously consider Tavon Austin. I feel like he has the type of speed that this offense could use. Also he can takeover for Welker in the slot and use his speed to stretch the field. I could see Belichick using him in a lot of different ways like he does with Hernandez when he puts him at H-Back. Austin isn't an H-Back but I could see them getting creative and using him in some formations where he lines up behind the line of scrimmage.

proshoota25
02-16-2013, 07:11 PM
If I am using a first round pick for a receiver, I am taking Patterson or Allen and that's it. If you are targeting some of these second tier receivers (Hunter, Austin, Woods, T. Williams) then trade out of the first and try to get additional picks.

I am really focusing on a secondary player in the late first. I would love Banks, Matt Elam, Eric Reid, Cyprien, Desmond Trufant, or Jordan Poyer. There is a lot of depth here in the late first or early second area..... again I would love to trade down. I would love a DE/OLB type but I do not think anyone is going to be there for the taking worthy of that spot. A guy like Short (not at OLB, obviously) would work for me.

If your targeting these two specific areas, trade down BB!

TNPatsFan
02-23-2013, 07:51 AM
Well the combine workouts start today.

At the start of last season I was convinced that the Pats were going to have to spend an early pick on an OL, most probably an interior OL, and that's what I was paying the most attention to at the start of the college season.

But now I don't even think that's one of their top 5 needs. The OL came together and did a pretty good job. Not spectacular, but not nearly as bad as they looked in August and September. Just make sure they don't lose Vollmer or they will need to draft an OT (or sign a FA).

In the draft I think they absolutely need to get at least one WR and at least one DB (depending on the Talib and Dennard situations). They also need another pass rusher to go opposite Jones and some depth at LB.

descendency
02-24-2013, 12:51 PM
Corey Fuller (WR, VT) put up some solid #2 WR numbers (at worst). He was 6'2", 205 with 33.5 inch arms and 9.5 inch hands. Ran a low 4.4. Went to youtube and quickly watched him play some and he definitely runs routes similar to NE's system, but doesn't run many routes.

However, he caught some of the worst thrown balls I've seen. Logan Thomas has absolutely terrible accuracy. Just terrible.

cmarq83
02-24-2013, 01:57 PM
So yeah, these receivers, I want one.

Vaylor
02-24-2013, 03:58 PM
So yeah, these receivers, I want one.

I would like two or three.

MidwayMonster31
02-24-2013, 04:02 PM
A lot of the receivers had very good days today. I think there is plenty of value to be had for you guys in the second round. I would not be surprised to see Justin Hunter turn into the best receiver of this class after all is said and done. He picked up near the end of the season and ran well. Markus Wheaton and Robert Woods will be very good fits for the Pats as well.

descendency
02-24-2013, 04:55 PM
I read an interesting comment from a packers scout on Alec Ogletree:

"He's a top-10 talent. If you're the Patriots, you're taking the guy. It would be just a gift. And that's what's going to end up happening."

I'm not reading that much into the last sentence, but the second one is what intrigues me. Of all of the teams that pick in the late part of the first round (routinely), he picks NE - arguably one of the teams with the least need for a LB (though, Ogletree fits exactly the kind of LB they need...).

I wonder what he was thinking there.

Jvig43
02-24-2013, 09:50 PM
Cmarq would punt kittens off a bridge if we drafted another LB in the first again haha

I'm pretty sure this time we'd be on board with him tho.

AntoinCD
02-25-2013, 10:40 AM
I love this WR class. I would actually be happy with a draft haul of Robert Woods or Deandre Hopkins in the first, Marquise Goodwin in the second, Ryan Swope in the third and then fix everything else in FA. Hope to get some offensive line depth late in the draft too

The Pats really need to tear **** up at the WR position

Razor
02-25-2013, 01:28 PM
Cmarq would punt kittens off a bridge if we drafted another LB in the first again haha
Haha, this made me laugh way more than I probably should.

I love this WR class. I would actually be happy with a draft haul of Robert Woods or Deandre Hopkins in the first, Marquise Goodwin in the second, Ryan Swope in the third and then fix everything else in FA. Hope to get some offensive line depth late in the draft too

The Pats really need to tear **** up at the WR position

I just got a massive erection when I read this. Another scenario would be Tavon Austin, Robert Woods and Cobi Hamilton. That would be pretty beastly imo.

cmarq83
02-25-2013, 06:15 PM
Cmarq would punt kittens off a bridge if we drafted another LB in the first again haha

I'm pretty sure this time we'd be on board with him tho.

I was never anti-LB, I just wanted a potential pass coverage LB. I mentioned multiple times before the draft that I was squarely in the David, Wagner, and Kendricks camp.

Anyways Ogletree in the first would be a no go for me. I like him, but not 1st round like him and we wouldn't give him enough snaps to justify that high of a pick. We can fill the void there later on as we only need a rotational LBer to sub in for Spikes or Hightower in Nickel situations.

Also, I was thinking on doubling up on receivers as well. I'm more in the Tavon Austin/ trade up higher in the 2nd for Justin Hunter camp.

descendency
02-26-2013, 10:21 PM
Saw a pretty well known internet mock drafter with the idea that I had a few months ago (trade Mallett, draft Glennon in the late 3rd) which I think is an excellent idea. The only problem is that Glennon might not make it to the late 3rd and unless NE is taking a future pick for Mallett, we won't be sure that Glennon will be around in the early 90s.

Vaylor
02-27-2013, 04:54 AM
Saw a pretty well known internet mock drafter with the idea that I had a few months ago (trade Mallett, draft Glennon in the late 3rd) which I think is an excellent idea. The only problem is that Glennon might not make it to the late 3rd and unless NE is taking a future pick for Mallett, we won't be sure that Glennon will be around in the early 90s.

With Brady's contract being fully guaranteed, I don't see the value in taking a QB this year or next.

cmarq83
02-27-2013, 05:39 AM
Saw a pretty well known internet mock drafter with the idea that I had a few months ago (trade Mallett, draft Glennon in the late 3rd) which I think is an excellent idea. The only problem is that Glennon might not make it to the late 3rd and unless NE is taking a future pick for Mallett, we won't be sure that Glennon will be around in the early 90s.

I don't know what we'd get in return for Mallett, but I doubt it would be much better than what we'd give up having to draft Glennon in the 3rd. Mallett is the much superior player of the 2 IMO. I'll take 2 years of having him as a backup even if we can't resign him once his contract ends.

descendency
02-27-2013, 01:03 PM
With Brady's contract being fully guaranteed, I don't see the value in taking a QB this year or next.

He'll be 40 his last season. He talks about playing to 45, but that's insane. At the point when he's in his late 30s, every season you should have a competent backup.

As far as Mallett vs Glennon, I think they are basically identical prospects (minus the off field stuff). I would expect a high second round pick for Mallett. Honestly, with what the Chiefs just gave up for Alex Smith, I would expect a mid first rounder... lol.

proshoota25
02-28-2013, 01:09 AM
if we go corner in the first....who would you pick that's realistic?

i think im leaning trufant

AntoinCD
02-28-2013, 05:06 AM
if we go corner in the first....who would you pick that's realistic?

i think im leaning trufant

Trufant would be my guess but I wouldn't rule out Taylor or Banks

Jvig43
02-28-2013, 11:43 AM
I only saw that Banks ran a terrible 40 time, how was the rest of his combine?

nepg
02-28-2013, 06:02 PM
I don't think the corners make it to the Pats in the first, but if Rhodes or Trufant is there, jump all over it.

I had them taking Justin Hunter in my mock. S, CB, and WR are their primary needs. I had Vacarro and Reid gone and the top 3 corners were gone. Hunter seems like the #3 WR in the draft at this point.

nepg
02-28-2013, 06:04 PM
With Brady's contract being fully guaranteed, I don't see the value in taking a QB this year or next.
If they can get something significant for Mallet and land one of the QBs from this class with their late pick, why not just bring Hoyer back and make this happen? It really is starting to look like Mallet will never start for the Pats.

The QBs in this class have a lot of potential, they just have flaws that make them bad fits for teams that definitely need to hit on a guy. The Pats aren't in that position.

RWills
03-08-2013, 09:20 AM
Don't think Rhodes will be available when we pick, he can go as high as 12.

I see us trading down easy, there will be teams at the top of 2 wanting to trade back into round 1 to get a QB, makes sense cause 1st rd picks are 5-year contracts whereas 2nd rd is 4 year, you would want that QB an eztra year of cheap salary.

Expect a run on CB's from bottom of rd 1 thru rd 2. So if we're thinking from our pick till about the our pick in rd 2 CB's we could look at are...

Trufant - Not as physical as you saw in the Sr bowl but has proved himself, not sure if he would last.

Blidi Wreh-Wilson - Big, long armed, 2x captain and a good kid that loves football, sounds like a Patriot. teams like Ind, Jax, NYJ, Buf will look at him in rd 2, would have to take in rd 1

Jamar Taylor - He doesn't get enough credit, feisty speedy cover corner but struggles at pressing at the LOS another early 2nd rd prospect

Jonathan Banks - He is a pro, good kid, Joe Haden ran a worst 40, he just makes plays. another tall long armed CB, can still go late round 1 to middle rd 2

The rest could be had with our second rd

Robert Alford - Fast, electric returner, strong and good at press, mean attitude, not as big as one would like, tends to be overagressive

BW Webb - Another feisty corner but doesn't like to work through blocks, struggles in back pedal, good zone awareness, rmeinds me of Asante Samuel

Jordan Poyer - Smooth CB w/ fluid hips can play man and zone, lacks second gear and struggles at press.

Darius Slay - Long and Physical with speed might be a better pro than Banks, hard worker and good ST'r, lacks a drive to the ball

Leon McFadden - great feet, and can snatch the ball, understands zone but is on the smaller size

David Amerson - Boom or Bust, fast strightline speed, good size, very good ball skills. Gets beat to much, constantly struggled on doubles and fakes, gave up a lot vertical TDs

The reast is 3rd round possibilities
Tyrann Mathieu
Will Davis
Logan Ryan
Tharold Simon
Brandon McGee
Terry Hawthorne
Dwayne Gratz

FlyingElvis
03-08-2013, 09:39 AM
Robert Alford - Fast, electric returner, strong and good at press, mean attitude, not as big as one would like, tends to be overagressive

Drafting a guy who can truly be a return man would be a nice change. I'd love to see that, though I guess it depends on where our defensive philosophy lies this year.

nepg
03-10-2013, 06:23 PM
It really looks like they need to bring in a FA CB. I don't see one worth taking lasting till #29 and they don't have a ton of ammunition to trade up with (nor is it really worth it to trade up).

Trufant or Rhodes would be dream picks in the first round, but I have both going in the Top 20.

I think Robert Alford is a legitimate option at #29, but that may be a better opportunity to take a player at a different position.

descendency
03-10-2013, 09:44 PM
I only saw that Banks ran a terrible 40 time, how was the rest of his combine?

He looked bad all around.

He's definitely falling. (I was shocked when he was rising)

proshoota25
03-14-2013, 08:38 PM
reports are going around that the pats seemed very interested in the honey badger at the combine. they grilled him the hardest too apparently

Jvig43
03-15-2013, 08:58 AM
Elaborate haha

cmarq83
03-19-2013, 04:25 PM
How does everyone feel about Kyle Long in the 2nd? He reminds me a lot of Nate Solder, and our last 2 picks of raw, long, athletic offensive tackles have paid off immensely. I feel like with Scar as our coach we have a good chance of turning a guy like Long into a Vollmer type. Even if Vollmer resigns we still could use an upgrade at guard currently, and 1-2 years from now we may need to reevaluate the Mankins contract because up to this point his play has not matched his contract. Long could probably play guard for us as well.

Also if Cooper or Warmack fall to the low 20's we should be having serious discussions about trading up to get them.

proshoota25
03-19-2013, 06:20 PM
i doubt kyle long lasts that long in the second round. i think he will get picked somewhere between 35-50

Blackluck
03-20-2013, 12:41 PM
I don't think I would trade up in the draft, too many holes and not enough picks to fill them.

Anyway, here's my list so far and possible round. Can't decide if any of the receivers (outside of Allen, should he drop) be taken 1st. I'm assuming we trade out of the first and get a high 2nd round pick for one of those receivers, although the more I read on S.Williams, the better he sounds as a first round choice.

DT
S. Williams (1)
B. Winters (3)
J. Williams (1? I can't decide on J. Williams and his fit for us. I wouldn't be disappointed if we end up taking him though.)

DE
C. Carradine (1?)
M. Hunt (2? If we get an extra pick from somewhere)

WR - Rd 2 except for Allen (no particular order)
K. Allen (1) (He might drop!)
J. Hunter
Q. Patton
D. Hopkins
D. Rogers
K. Stills
M. Wheaton
A. Dobson

CB
Trufant (1)
J Taylor (3)

OLB (Cover LB, situational blitzer)
S.Moore OLB (3)
C.Thomas (3)

OL
Anyone with the Scar seal of approval works for me

cmarq83
03-20-2013, 04:21 PM
I don't think I would trade up in the draft, too many holes and not enough picks to fill them.


Outside of receiver and possibly RT if Vollmer signs elsewhere I wouldn't classify any spot as having a hole. We have several spots where we can improve upon, but just throwing a draft pick doesn't necessarily solve that problem. The depth isn't as amazing as it's been in year's past, however I still think we have better depth than most teams. There are also still a lot of guys out there, and we should still have a few dollars here and there to throw around.

Blackluck
03-21-2013, 07:48 AM
Yeah, I can see where 'holes' might be a bit strong, and our record with 3rd round picks hasn't been exactly stellar. If it were me though, I'd probably trade out of the first, then take the extra pick and trade up from our 2nd round pick (so we have a high two, a middle two, and a middle three.) By the time we pick at the bottom of the second I have a feeling all the players I would be looking forward to adding will be gone. :/

Razor
03-22-2013, 01:49 PM
We've worked out Jeff Tuel. I want to believe that we've only done that so we can question him about Marquess Wilson.

Blackluck
03-22-2013, 02:00 PM
Lol. Was it just me or did Wilson look really good at the combine? Any chance he lasts to 7?

Blackluck
03-24-2013, 02:35 PM
edit: Took out the trade.

1 (29) C. Carradine DE
2 (59) M. Wheaton WR
3 (91) W. Shields CB

DT might be higher priority but if Carradine is on the boards I think we take him, we don't have many chances at his talent where we pick. CB to back up Talib and play outside when Talib goes out with injury as Arrington on the outside isn't a good idea (and Dowling seems a lost cause.)

Didn't mock the 7th rounders, no idea at that point.

Nalej
04-01-2013, 08:20 AM
Margus Hunt... what can you guys tell me about him? His physical skills seem through the roof.

Jcn92
04-02-2013, 08:46 AM
Margus Hunt... what can you guys tell me about him? His physical skills seem through the roof.

I'm not too big on the guy as he seems like he is a huge project and if you draft him you're drafting him based on potential. His lateral quickness is not great and he is an extremely raw prospect. If you watch him in the Senior Bowl you'll come away unimpressed, he did not look good. I wouldn't use a first on him.

Jcn92
04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
I was listening to the NFL Draft Tracker podcast and they had Scott Pioli on and he revealed some very interesting things about the Patriots and the way they draft. He talked about how Belichick and the organization as a whole targets players who were captains in college and have a college degree. After looking at the Patriots first round draft picks I realized that under Belichick they have rarely drafted a player with a first round pick who was not a senior. The only players they have used a first round pick on that were not seniors or were not in college for four years are Vince Wilfork, Benjamin Watson, Lawrence Maroney, and Chandler Jones. I don't really count Chandler Jones either because he completed his college degree shortly after declaring for the NFL draft. Pioli emphasized that the organization put a very heavy emphasis on their players having college degrees. Hightower, Solder, McCourty, Mayo, and Meriweather were all team captains. Solder and McCourty were in college for five years. I just thought this was interesting and didn't realize the pattern in types of players the Patriots were using there first round picks on.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2013, 09:39 AM
I was listening to the NFL Draft Tracker podcast and they had Scott Pioli on and he revealed some very interesting things about the Patriots and the way they draft. He talked about how Belichick and the organization as a whole targets players who were captains in college and have a college degree. After looking at the Patriots first round draft picks I realized that under Belichick they have rarely drafted a player with a first round pick who was not a senior. The only players they have used a first round pick on that were not seniors or were not in college for four years are Vince Wilfork, Benjamin Watson, Lawrence Maroney, and Chandler Jones. I don't really count Chandler Jones either because he completed his college degree shortly after declaring for the NFL draft. Pioli emphasized that the organization put a very heavy emphasis on their players having college degrees. Hightower, Solder, McCourty, Mayo, and Meriweather were all team captains. Solder and McCourty were in college for five years. I just thought this was interesting and didn't realize the pattern in types of players the Patriots were using there first round picks on.

Yes, BB & Co. have always valued 4 years (preferably in a big-name program) with emphasis on team leaders/captains and increasing production. I don't think he's ever drafted any player that came out as a sophmore and it's only been a few juniors (Meriweather is one you missed).

That philosophy is one of the reasons I really thought we'd draft Hankerson a few years back. Though it's pretty clear at this point he would have been yet another WR slop for us, anyway.

Jcn92
04-02-2013, 09:49 AM
Yes, BB & Co. have always valued 4 years (preferably in a big-name program) with emphasis on team leaders/captains and increasing production. I don't think he's ever drafted any player that came out as a sophmore and it's only been a few juniors (Meriweather is one you missed).



Meriweather was actually at the University of Miami for 5 years, 2002-2006.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2013, 09:54 AM
Right you are. I'm not sure why I always thought he was one of the few exceptions.

Vaylor
04-02-2013, 05:03 PM
Right you are. I'm not sure why I always thought he was one of the few exceptions.

Probably because his low football IQ is making you assume he never managed to get a degree, which isn't an unfair assumption to be honest.

cmarq83
04-02-2013, 05:05 PM
Probably because his low IQ is making you assume he never managed to get a degree, which isn't an unfair assumption to be honest.

Fixed for you.

Jcn92
04-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Based on the Patriots tendency to draft Seniors/Team Captains I thought I would compile a list of players who fit their needs, might be available when they pick in the first, and fit the bill of players with at least four years of college or were captains

Senior AND Captain (Nate Solder)
Kenny Vaccaro, S, Texas
Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
Alex Okafor, DE, Texas
Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State
Bidi Wreh-Wilson, CB, UCONN
Jamar Taylor, CB, Boise State
Jonathan Banks, CB, Mississippi State
Jonathan Cyprien, S, FIU
Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon State
Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech

Senior But Not Captain
Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
Sylvester Williams, DT, UNC
Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
DJ Hayden, CB, Houston

At Least 4 Years of College AND Captain (Jerod Mayo)
Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia

At Least 4 Years of College (Chandler Jones)
Xavier Rhodes, CB, FSU
Kevin Minter, ILB, LSU

cmarq83
04-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Based on the Patriots tendency to draft Seniors/Team Captains I thought I would compile a list of players who fit their needs, might be available when they pick in the first, and fit the bill of players with at least four years of college or were captains

Senior AND Captain (Nate Solder)
Kenny Vaccaro, S, Texas
Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
Alex Okafor, DE, Texas
Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State

Senior But Not Captain
Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
Sylvester Williams, DT, UNC

At Least 4 Years of College AND Captain (Jerod Mayo)
Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia

At Least 4 Years of College (Chandler Jones)
Xavier Rhodes, CB, FSU
Kevin Minter, ILB, LSU

As previously mentioned I will punt kittens off of a bridge if we take another slow linebacker who can't cover with a high pick. I could talk myself into any other spot on the field, but taking a guy like Te'o makes absolutely no sense even with Spikes's impending free agency next season.

Jcn92
04-10-2013, 06:25 PM
I'm not advocating taking him. I just listed the players that fit the mold of who the type of player that Pats have drafted in recent years with their first round pick.

Blackluck
04-11-2013, 08:35 AM
Based on the Patriots tendency to draft Seniors/Team Captains I thought I would compile a list of players who fit their needs, might be available when they pick in the first, and fit the bill of players with at least four years of college or were captains

Senior AND Captain (Nate Solder)
Kenny Vaccaro, S, Texas
Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
Alex Okafor, DE, Texas
Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State

Senior But Not Captain
Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
Sylvester Williams, DT, UNC

At Least 4 Years of College AND Captain (Jerod Mayo)
Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia

At Least 4 Years of College (Chandler Jones)
Xavier Rhodes, CB, FSU
Kevin Minter, ILB, LSU

Thanks for compliling that list, saves me some leg work :)

Of those players listed, I can see us taking only Trufant, but like many of the other players listed I think he'll be gone. I can't see us taking a LB in the first, although I'd personally not be opposed to Brown. If Williams were there I don't know if we would take him, but everything I've read is that Williams has inside rush potential, and those guys don't tend to last long anyway.

It certainly looks like we'll be trying really hard to trade out of the first. The Sander's offer sheet tells me that after the numerous WRs we've looked at through the draft visits, they don't see any that can come in and start right away, which also leads me to believe we won't be taking a WR with our first pick, but rather a developmental guy with our second one. If we stay at the end of the second I have to wonder who will be left. Maybe Wheaton, Stills or Swope? Rogers will still be there, but I don't know if we take that gamble. Been reading there are question marks on Hunter's football IQ, so I'd be surprised if we take him. (I think there's even a decent chance we won't take any WR.)

If it were me and assuming the DE's are gone (Werner or Carradine) I'd go with Allen, Woods or maybe Hopkins with the first pick. However, I think the most likely first pick will end up being corner, one of B. Wilson, J. Taylor or possibly Banks (any of which gives me a sad :erf: )

Oh, and I really can't see us taking Te'o so hopefully kittens everywhere will be safe from Cmarq's wrath. :evil_laugh:

Jcn92
04-11-2013, 10:35 AM
If it were me and assuming the DE's are gone (Werner or Carradine) I'd go with Allen, Woods or maybe Hopkins with the first pick. However, I think the most likely first pick will end up being corner, one of B. Wilson, J. Taylor or possibly Banks (any of which gives me a sad :erf: )


I forgot to look up Wilson, Taylor and Banks. Thanks for mentioning those guys. All three were captains and seniors so I've added them to the list. I also wouldn't be surprised if they pass on WR in the first round. Based on the players that are on the list I made and your comment about the Sanders offer being a sign of their thoughts of the WRs in the draft, I think they will take one of the senior CB's available. Trufant, if he falls, and Wreh-Wilson seem like the types of guys that Belichick would want, followed by Banks.

Of the WRs I can't see them taking Hopkins. Not only because he was only in college for three years and not a captain, but also because I heard him say that this past season was the first year that he really concentrated on football and worked on it year round. I can't see Belichick drafting that type of guy. If I could see him taking a WR with only three years under his belt, and it's between Woods and Allen, I would have to go with Woods. I feel he is the most polished and complete WR in this class and could see Belichick taking a chance on him if he really wants a WR.

Blackluck
04-12-2013, 07:45 AM
I like Woods, and we really need a long term solution there. I'm guessing he's an early 2nd round pick, so we'd have to take him with our first pick. With BB you never know, but I doubt we end up doing that.

Speaking of never knowing, we've had D.Jordan, T. Austin and now E. Ansah in for private workouts. It's one thing to do due diligence (in case they drop) or even for scouting potential AFC East rival picks, but it seems a little odd. Something brewing here with the Pats moving up (way up)? I really can't see Cleveland swapping their pick for Mallet and 29, but really that's the only way we can get those players

RWills
04-14-2013, 10:40 PM
I really want them to trade out to get extra picks but you can only have 53 players. We all are hoping for a WR and/or CB and we can never predicting BB. I really want a WR in round 1, what's going for me is he hasn't dont it yet. Starting to put together my board of who I think will be on their short list, see if I nab one...
(Austin will require a trade up)

Pick 29
WR
-Keenan Allen - His knee might knock him down more than people expect maybe into round 2. He snatches the ball out of the air and doesn't body catch(like Patterson)
-DeAndre Hopkins - you watch him play how can you not like him, he goes hard and is competetive for every ball.
-Justin Hunter - He is a risky pick but is the only true deep threat in the draft plus he is a good kid with good work ethic.
CB
-Jamar Taylor - I think BB would love him and I wouldn't be suprised if he ended up being a top 20 pick
-Blidi Wreh-WIlson - Just sounds like a Patriot, another Captain like Taylor good size and can play all 4 downs which BB likes.
-DJ Hayden - Don't be shocked they have inside info at Houston and Hayden if healthy would easy be a top 15 pick
DL
-DT-Sylvester Williams - A big three tech is hard to find, I will bet he will be a top 15 pick though.
-DE-Datone Jones - can play DE in multi formations and DT in a 4 man front
-DE-Tank Williams - Take away the injury and he is a top 15 pick, better than Werner
-DE-Marqus Hunt - I'm not a fan but he can play all 4 downs and in hybrid formations, someone he can mold.
S
-Jonathan Cypien - Can play close to the line and center field, hits a ton and runs sideline to sideline. I think Wilson will play the nickel S role on our D.
-Eric Reid - Excellent 2011 tape, has the size and speed they like and can play all 4 downs.
-Matt Elam - He likes Florida players, if Elam was 6' 215 he would be a top 20 pick.

Trade Down - Low 2nd round
To come tomorrow

Blackluck
04-15-2013, 09:05 AM
Good list.
I would add Woods, he appears to be the most accomplished route runner.
Hunter scares me. I would be surprised if we take the risk.

While I personally think we can use a safety upgrade, I'd also be surprised if we take one. Everything I've read indicates NE is happy with T. Wilson' progress, and they probably give him another year to develop.

Lastly I would add DE - if Carradine, Werner, or maybe D. Jones (scheme diverse) are sitting there I think we take them.

TNPatsFan
04-15-2013, 03:40 PM
The Pats have been looking hard at all pass rushers and wide receivers. I think if Werner or Carradine somehow fall to 29 they take him. If not, then if Keenan Allen or possibly Trufant are available they take him. If none of those are there then they trade back. I would also like Hopkins a lot at 29 but I'd like him a lot more at 39 than 29.

Finally I'm a big fan of both Woods and Hunter but I don't think either are going in the first round.

RWills
04-15-2013, 07:28 PM
The Pats have been looking hard at all pass rushers and wide receivers. I think if Werner or Carradine somehow fall to 29 they take him. If not, then if Keenan Allen or possibly Trufant are available they take him. If none of those are there then they trade back. I would also like Hopkins a lot at 29 but I'd like him a lot more at 39 than 29.

Finally I'm a big fan of both Woods and Hunter but I don't think either are going in the first round.

I like Allen and I think he can fall to us.

I agree with Woods not being a round 1, was going to include him in a trade scenario

Im scared of Hunter but with his size, speed and character dont be suprised if he goes round 1.

I love Wheaton but he struggles tracking deep balls

RWills
04-15-2013, 09:25 PM
Here is my board of players if we were to trade down 5-15 spaces down to pick up picks

OL
Justin Pugh - Can play all 5 positions and even though I dont want an OL early, pretty much guarantees it will happen
WR
-Robert Woods - Playing next to Lee actually hurt him but he also had a foot injury, still crafty route runner with good hands.
-Quinton Patton - Another favorite of mine, very similar to Reggie Wayne, deceptive speed
DT
-Jesse Williams - More of a 2 down player but is a high motor tough player who played NT and 5-Tech
-Jonathan Hankins - He is a guy I wouldn't want at 29 but he can play 5-tech and 3-tech
-Kawann Short - Just look at his tackles for loss, the guy gets in the backfield
LB
-Kiko Alanso - Athletic and tall MLB who loves to take on blockers, think of Spikes BUT who can cover (Spikes is in his last year)
CB
-Darius Slay - Has the size and triangle numbers BB likes and he is not ignored on film.
-Jonathan Banks - BB doesn't care about bad 40's in round 2 and he is a ball hawk who does well with press zone

PICK 59

WR
-Markus Wheaton - Fast, smooth route runner, good kid, tracks deep ball not so well but coachable
-Terrence Williams - A deep threat who had a bad 40 went from end of rd 1 to rd 2.
-Aaron Dobson - Like this guy, bug, fast knows how to play the deep ball, unknown because of injury through sr bowl and combine
DT
-John Jenkins - Could fall this far becuase of weight, the man can crush the pocket
MLB
-Jon Bostic - He is flying up charts, he is a 3 down player which is hard to find in MLB's
CB
-Tyrann Mathieu - Wouldn't be suprised if BB does a slight reach, the kid can play
-David Amerson - Not a fan of his tape and his triangle numbers are awful but his 2011 tape is awesome and BB takes gambles in 2nd rd
-Jordan Poyer - I like but I am not excited about it him plays better off than press
-Robert Alford - Mirrors man to man, plays slot, aware of zone but struggles with bigger players
S
-DJ Swearinger - A hard hitting leader of a safety who covered the opposing slot

TNPatsFan
04-15-2013, 09:32 PM
I'm a Vols fan and a Justin Hunter fan (I actually like him better than Cordarrelle Patterson). But even though I'd love to see the Pats draft Hunter, I'd have some reservations. For some reason I just feel like he has the biggest bust potential of all the top WR's in this draft.

RWills
04-16-2013, 09:35 AM
I'm a Vols fan and a Justin Hunter fan (I actually like him better than Cordarrelle Patterson). But even though I'd love to see the Pats draft Hunter, I'd have some reservations. For some reason I just feel like he has the biggest bust potential of all the top WR's in this draft.

Patterson's body catching and not knowing the route tree worries me more than Hunter...wonder how much was mental with ACL injury, even Cosell called Hunter the most explosive.

Razor
04-18-2013, 12:09 PM
I've been a long time deciding that I want the Patriots to do this year in the draft. I've finally come to a conclusion. Whilst trading down would give us some midround picks and/or picks next year, I really want us to draft DJ Hayden out of Houston. His ability to turn his hips and run with receivers is just amazing, and I can't help but compare him to Revis when I watch him play. He's active against the run and plays the ball well. I'm pretty excited about him to be quite honest. We may not even get a shot at drafting him, but if we do I think we should pull the trigger and find a receiver and a defensive end in rounds 2 and 3 respectively.

Blackluck
04-18-2013, 01:43 PM
Ironically, just read this from one of the draftniks I follow on twitter:

Ethan Hammerman ‏@Ethanhamm 10m
In impromptu mocks I keep creating in my head, I always seem to slot Hayden to NE. Just seems like a natural fit.

Ethan Hammerman ‏@Ethanhamm 10m
I could see the Patriots being big fans of D.J. Hayden.

For me, I have no idea who I want with the first pick. Lots of ways to go - I'd probably be most disappointed with an OL lineman not named Cooper, or most CBs (Hayden would be fine, he does look very fluid.)

Jvig43
04-18-2013, 07:09 PM
I've been a long time deciding that I want the Patriots to do this year in the draft. I've finally come to a conclusion. Whilst trading down would give us some midround picks and/or picks next year, I really want us to draft DJ Hayden out of Houston. His ability to turn his hips and run with receivers is just amazing, and I can't help but compare him to Revis when I watch him play. He's active against the run and plays the ball well. I'm pretty excited about him to be quite honest. We may not even get a shot at drafting him, but if we do I think we should pull the trigger and find a receiver and a defensive end in rounds 2 and 3 respectively.

After catching up on alot of tape, I am just not a fan of any of the WRs coming out of the draft this year. As such, I would be more than ok with this scenario.

AntoinCD
04-19-2013, 04:38 AM
After catching up on alot of tape, I am just not a fan of any of the WRs coming out of the draft this year. As such, I would be more than ok with this scenario.

I agree about Hayden and I would be quite happy to see him in NE. However I have to disagree about the WRs. I don't see any AJ Green or Julio Jones types this year, however there are some real good options IMO. Hopkins, Allen, Woods, Hunter, Wheaten, Patton, Rodgers etc. Both Hunter and Rodgers have massive potential to be #1 WRs but come with inherent risks. The rest of the guys, especially Hopkins, Allen and Woods could be really good fits here

Jcn92
04-19-2013, 08:51 AM
Out of Hopkins, Allen, Woods, Hunter, Wheaton, Patton, and Rodgers I would say that Wheaton and Patton are the most likely because of both are team captains and seniors, Patton is a fifth year senior. Hopkins has stated that he has really participated in football year round for one year and that was this past year. I really cant see the Pats drafting him after this (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9187853/deandre-hopkins-mark-harrison-occupied-trashed-hotel-rooms-combine-sources-say). I don't know much about the other juniors Hunter and Allen. I really like Robert Woods and he seems like someone who plays older than he is.

Jvig43
04-19-2013, 09:37 AM
Hopkins actually is my favorite pick for us to be honest. Just watching tape, he attacks the ball incredible well, runs very polished routes and is able to get off the line when facing contact. There were some dumb drops I saw from Hopkins here and there but hes my favorite prospect for us right now. Not sure we take him but I can hope.

Blackluck
04-21-2013, 05:43 AM
Good article by Bedard (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/04/20/patriots-have-struck-out-receiver-and-the-secondary/ECYHRoPfU8EHxv00L9uiFP/story-3.html) at Boston.com discussing NE difficulty at drafting DB and WR. Interesting note on the Wunderlic scores: Chris Harper (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=38438) scored an impressive 33. Sounds like a good mid round pick, maybe in combination with Wheaton? (After more research though, put me on the Bailey bandwagon for our 2nd or 3rd pick.)

TNPatsFan
04-21-2013, 11:00 AM
I'd love to see the Pats get Bailey.

I think he's my favorite WR in that second tier after Allen/Hopkins/Hunter/Woods. He may not be a deep threat but he can get open and he catches everything.

cmarq83
04-21-2013, 01:07 PM
In all honesty I don't see why Kendall Wright was a mid-first round pick and Bailey is a late 2nd-early 4th round prospect. They have similar concerns in terms of build and timed speed, but they were both immensely successful in college, and had success vertically despite average timed speed. Bailey is actually a much better blocker and a bit harder to tackle.

I think i have to give a bit of a speed nod to Wright because he does look much faster on the field than his timed speed shows, but if guys like Wright and Manningham can have success vertically in the NFL I have no idea why Bailey can't.

Of all the receivers in this class I think Bailey could plug into our outside spot from day 1 with the most success. He may not have the upside of a Hunter, but we need contributions right away, and I know Bailey can do it.

Razor
04-21-2013, 01:23 PM
Yeah, I've been a big fan of Bailey for a long time now. He'd be an awesome fit in our system. I'm really starting to like Hopkins too... Now if only he didn't play for Clemson...

Blackluck
04-22-2013, 08:23 AM
Here's how I'm seeing the different scenarios depending on how the picks go before us. Players listed are in no particular order. Since we're picking at the bottom of each round, we might end up with a pick graded out one or two rounds lower, which doesn't particularly trouble me (unless it's a mega reach ala Wilson.) Am I missing anything?

Scenario 1 (WR run)
WR - Woods/Allen/Wheaton
CB - Wilson/Commings/Poyer/Slay
BPA*(OL/DL/LB)

Scenario 2 (CB run)
CB Hayden/Taylor/Trufant
WR Bailey/Patton/Rodgers/Swope
BPA*(OL/DL/LB)

Scenario 3 (DL prospects drop, least likely)
DL- Carradine, Warner, Williams (S. or J.)
WR Bailey/Patton/Rodgers/Swope
CB Davis/Alford/Gratz

Trading down shouldn't appreciably change 1 or 2 imo unless we trade way down into the 2nd. We'll probably pick up a 4th and take whatever position we don't fill in the third. Reading that next year's draft is stocked, so picking up a 2014 1 or 2 in lieu of a 4th this year works.

descendency
04-22-2013, 06:22 PM
An interesting result from FO:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/playmaker-score-2013

The one thing they seemingly miss is that the lower bound is a positively sloped line (meaning that no player who averages 1000 yards per season is worse than a 200 playmaker score. This means Quinton Patton, Tavon Austin, Keenan Allen, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Kenny Stills are not likely to ever be 1000 yards per season guys.

To be honest, I agree with the overall tone of this article. While there are a lot of good WRs in this class, there aren't any must have ones. There seem to be a bunch of guys that could be decent contributors and busts.

Blackluck
04-23-2013, 12:04 PM
That's some sobering statistics.
Here's another view of over valued and under valued prospects based on college production:
Over rated (http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/metrics-study-overrated-draft-prospects)
Under rated (http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/metrics-study-undervalued-draft-prospects)