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Matthew Jones
05-03-2012, 08:50 PM
I need to do more work on E.J. Manuel, Denard Robinson, etc. before I post their scouting reports but I figured I'd post the notes I took last year on some of the top quarterback prospects in this draft class since people seem interested in discussing 2013 already. Let me know what you think!

Matt Barkley, Southern California (6'1", 220, 4.75)

Positives:

• Possesses excellent competitiveness, work ethic, leadership ability, and composure
• Footwork is already very polished both from under center and in the shotgun
• Arm strength is more than adequate to make all of the throws in the NFL
• Has outstanding accuracy and touch when throwing the deep ball/fade
• Does a great job executing screens of all varieties (running backs, receivers, rollouts)
• Timing on all throws is exceptional and can see plays before they develop
• Extremely good velocity and ball placement when throwing on bootlegs
• Lots of experience in Southern California’s pro-style offense under Lane Kiffin
• Manipulates the defense effectively with his eyes as well as with his ball fakes
• Can create a little bit of time with his mobility inside the pocket
• Has three years of starting experience already and has improved substantially each year

Negatives:

• Height is a little bit less than ideal for an NFL quarterback; measurement may be important
• Occasionally takes too many chances with the ball which lead to turnovers
• Balls can sail on him at times when he gets impatient and throws off the back foot
• Arm strength is not elite; lacks the cannon of someone like Matthew Stafford

Grade: First round

Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech* (6’5”, 255, 4.65)

Positives:

• Outstanding size and bulk; physically reminiscent of Cam Newton
• Looked very composed in his first season as the starting quarterback
• Footwork is surprisingly advanced for an underclassman
• Has an over-the-top throwing motion with a quick release
• Has operated from under center at times in college
• Arm strength is strong enough to make all NFL throws
• Uses the proper amount of touch on the ball; very catchable passer
• Looks to throw first and run second; uses mobility to buy time
• Has strong instincts and a lot of power when running the ball
• Makes sound decisions with the ball on the read-option

Negatives:

• Has only one year of starting experience thus far
• Takes most of his snaps from out of the shotgun
• Misses low too often on his throws (intermediate)
• Makes too many of his throws off of his back foot
• Must learn to protect his body more on the run
• Not quite the same athlete as someone like Cam Newton
• Had some issues with ball security (as well as handling shotgun snaps)

Grade: First round

Aaron Murray, Georgia* (6’1”, 210, 4.75)

Positives:

• Has an over-the-top throwing motion along with a very quick release
• Footwork is already very polished and looks natural dropping back and moving in the pocket
• Knows how to look the safety off and goes through progressions if receivers are covered
• Is a very accurate passer when throwing to all levels of the field
• Throws a nice spiral and has enough zip to fit the ball into tight spaces
• Ability to throw accurately on the run will be very appealing to west coast offenses
• Sells his fakes very well on the play-action pass
• Very confident and makes decisions with the ball quickly
• Competitiveness on the field is outstanding; plays with a lot of heart
• Athletic enough to escape defenders and gain yards on the move
• Plays in the SEC against some of the best defenses in college football
• Cadence has led defenders to jump offsides

Negatives:

• Does not possess ideal height for an NFL quarterback
• Durability could become an issue (reckless and exposes himself to big hits)
• Ball security is an issue and has had some fumbling problems
• Was forced to redshirt as a freshman due to a shoulder injury

Grade: First round

Tyler Wilson, Arkansas (6'3", 220, 4.80)

Positives:

• Has desirable height for an NFL quarterback and enough bulk to hold up
• Played in a pro-style spread offense under coach Bobby Petrino
• Has experience working from under center and turning his back to the defense
• Has a quick release and is confident pushing the ball down the field
• Arm strength is excellent and can rifle the ball downfield with zip to all areas
• Tight windows are no problem and can stick it to a receiver in coverage
• Generally accurate passer who uses the proper amount of touch most of the time
• Is willing to throw covered receivers open by making anticipatory throws
• Has some scrambling ability and is somewhat accurate on the run as well
• Play fakes are effective; does a nice job of selling the handoff

Negatives:

• Footwork looks clumsy at times and will require some work on his drops
• The arm angle on his delivery is extremely inconsistent and side-arms it at times (especially on the run)
• Balls can occasionally sail on him due to inconsistent footwork and mechanics
• Needs to do a better job of keeping the ball down in order to protect receivers
• Stares down his targets too often and needs work in regards to looking off the safety
• Ball security could be an issue; needs to do a better job of avoiding fumbles
• The majority of his throws are on pre-determined reads out of the shotgun
• Can be overly aggressive and throw into coverage positioned to make a play on the ball
• Will only have two years of starting experience in five seasons at Arkansas

Grade: First round

Tyler Bray, Tennessee* (6’5”, 210, 5.15)

Positives:

• Excellent height and will be one of the tallest NFL quarterbacks
• Throwing motion won’t require many adjustments in the NFL
• Does a nice job of stepping into his throws when given time
• Gets great zip on the ball to all areas of the field and can throw into tight spaces
• Anticipates wide receivers getting open/gives people chances to make plays
• Already has lots of experience playing against SEC defenses
• Does not operate exclusively out of the shotgun; has also worked under center
• Has a little bit escapability in the pocket especially against an edge rush
• Highly competitive on-field demeanor who plays with some swagger

Negatives:

• Needs to add a significant amount of bulk in order to withstand punishment
• Many of his throws are based off of predetermined reads (must check down more)
• Most of his snaps have been taken out of the shotgun
• Can get too aggressive with the ball and needs to throw it away more often
• Inconsistent footwork and looks clumsy and uncoordinated in his drops
• Needs to put more touch on the ball while throwing intermediate routes
• Must improve ball security while scrambling (holds the ball away from his body)
• Work ethic is an issue after admitting to being “lazy” in 2011
• Did not play very well against top competition and padded his stats against weaker teams

Grade: First or second round

E.J. Manuel, Florida St. (6’4”, 245, 4.60)

Positives:

• Possesses excellent size and bulk for an NFL quarterback
• Very intelligent, has already graduated from Florida St. (pursuing Master’s)
• Was given the freedom to make audibles based on the defense
• Already has a lot of experience dropping back from under center
• Footwork is very impressive after only a year and a half as the starter
• Has a quick release along with an over-the-top throwing motion
• Arm is strong enough to make throws to all areas with velocity
• Can challenge defenses with his feet (used on read options/designed runs)
• Will have almost three years of starting experience after the upcoming season

Negatives:

• Occasionally makes some poor decisions with the ball (forces throws)
• Locks onto his primary target and must go through more progressions
• Must improve timing (deliver passes quicker and earlier in routes)
• Inconsistent game-to-game in terms of performance/production
• Does not run with as much authority as his size should allow him to
• Ball security could be an issue (fumble at goal line vs. Florida)

Grade: Second round

Landry Jones, Oklahoma (6’4”, 230, 4.75)

Positives:

• Possesses prototypical size and bulk for an NFL quarterback
• Has a quick delivery and gets the ball out very early
• Footwork is already fairly clean but could step into his throws more
• Arm strength is good enough to make every NFL throw
• Athletic enough to escape the rush and gain yardage
• Is effective at operating the short passing game (screens)
• Does a respectable job of throwing the ball on the run (especially short)
• Has extensive starting experience and has been very productive
• Tough and will take a hit in order to make a throw

Negatives:

• Throwing motion is inconsistent; alters arm angles too much
• Play-action passes look a little bit lazy; does not sell very well
• Waits for open receivers rather than making anticipatory throws
• Will have to learn how to look off the safety when he gets to the NFL
• Not an incredibly accurate passer and must improve ball placement
• Often throws the ball a little bit too soft and could use more zip
• A lot of his throws have lack a tight spiral and can be difficult to catch
• Plays in a spread offense with a lot of predetermined reads

Grade: Second or third round

Mike Glennon, North Carolina St. (6'4", 225, 4.85)

Positives:

• Possesses the height and bulk to start as an NFL quarterback
• Has a very powerful arm and can rocket the ball downfield
• Quick in his drop-back and gets the ball out in a hurry
• Consistently throws a tight spiral to all levels of the field
• Has the ability to zip the ball into tight windows if necessary
• Excels at throwing seam routes because of his arm strength
• His timing on intermediate routes is outstanding

Negatives:

• Almost all of his throws were based off of predetermined reads
• Robotic; does not recognize defenses and make necessary adjustments
• Needs to work on stepping into his throws (feet too close together)
• Decision-making is very questionable which leads to turnovers
• Overly confident in his arm and does not consider alternative options
• Occasionally sprays the ball when throwing downfield
• Needs to improve his touch; puts too much on the ball on short throws
• Ball placement requires improvement; often throws too low

Grade: Third round

Geno Smith, West Virginia (6’3”, 215, 4.80)

Positives:

• Has enough height and bulk to satisfy any NFL team’s size requirements
• Gets great zip on the ball and can push the ball downfield in a hurry
• Does a nice job of stepping into throws when going downfield
• Has a quick release as well as a three-quarters throwing motion
• Effective on bootlegs and can challenge the defense with his athleticism
• Is able to elude defenders in the backfield in order to buy more time
• Confident in his ability to make throws into small windows
• Looks to throw first and run only in order to buy time for his receivers

Negatives:

• Lacks touch with the ball and looks to throw as hard as possible all the time
• Forces the ball into tight coverage and tries to make throws that aren’t there
• Frequently lets balls sail and is not an accurate passer; struggles on seam routes
• Takes almost all of his snaps out of the shotgun in a simplified spread offense
• Stares down targets and does not utilize his checkdowns very effectively
• Can be fooled by defenses and occasionally takes far too long to make throws

Grade: Fourth round

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
05-03-2012, 09:44 PM
I love your work RoP.

You do a fantastic job!

Matthew Jones
05-03-2012, 09:47 PM
I love your work RoP.

You do a fantastic job!

Thanks! I really appreciate it. Let me know if you want me to look into any other prospects.

ncst8fan83
05-03-2012, 10:07 PM
I'd love to see your views on Mike Glennon's prospects as well as things he may need to improve upon to move up the draft boards.

Ozzy
05-03-2012, 10:33 PM
ncst8fan83 I'd love to see your views on Mike Glennon's prospects as well as things he may need to improve upon to move up the draft boards.Good point.

And to expand on that issue, one could argue with a real breakout year and productive year, any one of these senior or junior quarterbacks could be 1st round picks. All have that type of ability, just will come down to who performs the best and who under achieves and cannot reach their accomplishments from a year ago.

Matt Barkley USC
Logan Thomas Virginia Tech
Tyler Wilson Arkansas
Aaron Murray Georgia
Tyler Bray Tennessee
Mike Glennon NC State
Landry Jones Oklahoma
Geno Smith West Virginia
EJ Manuel Florida State
AJ McCarron Alabama
Danny O'Brien Wisconsin

keylime_5
05-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Great work!

My personal opinions about these QBs: Smith is the best pure passer in this group. He plays in that system that produced all those Texas Tech QBs, but he is legit with how he throws the ball. Very good upside and I don't see how he doesn't get into the 1st or 2nd round next year even if teams put a 3rd round grade on him due to the fact that late 1st grade QBs like Tannehill get pushed into the top 10 and 3rd round grade QBs like Josh Freeman get pushed into the top 20.

On that note, Aaron Murray is a guy I see dropping down into round 2 or 3 because of his height. 6'1" tops, more likely 6'0" or 5'11". Absolutely no way this guy is a first round QB IMO. They won't draft 6 foot tall QBs that high in the NFL no matter how good he looks, and Murray has been good but not that good.

It will be interesting to watch Tyler Wilson this year after losing all of his WRs and Bobby Petrino - the coach who always makes QBs look way better than they really are with his system.

JaxJag_1
05-03-2012, 10:41 PM
Appreciate the work.

I just don't get the Aaron Murray love. If he goes any higher that the 3rd round, that's a massive reach in my opinion.

Ozzy
05-03-2012, 10:47 PM
Appreciate the work.

I just don't get the Aaron Murray love. If he goes any higher that the 3rd round, that's a massive reach in my opinion.I have to agree, he could be a 1st round guy with a great year, but at times he looks pretty average. But if he shows on the field leadership this year he has not in the past that will help his case.



keylime_5

It will be interesting to watch Tyler Wilson this year after losing all of his WRs and Bobby Petrino - the coach who always makes QBs look way better than they really are with his system. Very true, will be interesting how he does without all those receivers too, only the TE and Hamilton are back that have real talent, but Wade could be a good one also. Real surprised Garrick McGee is not the coach yet at Arkansas, the guy would be perfect and was a huge reason they were so good in my opinion. Real interested to see how Brandon Mitchell turns out for them as well!

Matthew Jones
05-04-2012, 01:00 AM
I'd love to see your views on Mike Glennon's prospects as well as things he may need to improve upon to move up the draft boards.

I'm going to take a look and get back to you, let's shoot for sometime today!

Matthew Jones
05-04-2012, 01:02 AM
I have to agree, he could be a 1st round guy with a great year, but at times he looks pretty average. But if he shows on the field leadership this year he has not in the past that will help his case.



Very true, will be interesting how he does without all those receivers too, only the TE and Hamilton are back that have real talent, but Wade could be a good one also. Real surprised Garrick McGee is not the coach yet at Arkansas, the guy would be perfect and was a huge reason they were so good in my opinion. Real interested to see how Brandon Mitchell turns out for them as well!

Murray is at least a leader by example; he routinely puts his body on the line in order to win. That was actually one of my negatives in the scouting report though because he took a bunch of huge hits in the games I watched.

SolidGold
05-04-2012, 07:39 AM
Nice write up of all the QBs

Not a Logan Thomas - he was pretty good his first year but it seemed like he was lacking something. I think their are 5 QBs that should go before him. For all the Newton comparisons he did not really make many game changing plays with his feet. He lost Boykin, Coale and Wilson so it will be interesting to see if that impacts his play this year.

Tyler Wilson will have a very good year - he lit up the spring game. I don't think Petrino's loss will impact his game much. For all the talk of Petrino system QB's - the two that did not make it were LeFors and Brohm. Brohm was a huge bust but LeFors was undersized and the definition of college QB. Mallet would of been a first rounder but character questions caused his drop. Wilson is probably the most well rounded QB prospect.

I would also like to see a write up on Glennon. He ended last year on fire, I think he has a shot to go round 1 with a good season.

Matthew Jones
05-04-2012, 09:12 AM
Nice write up of all the QBs

Not a Logan Thomas - he was pretty good his first year but it seemed like he was lacking something. I think their are 5 QBs that should go before him. For all the Newton comparisons he did not really make many game changing plays with his feet. He lost Boykin, Coale and Wilson so it will be interesting to see if that impacts his play this year.

Tyler Wilson will have a very good year - he lit up the spring game. I don't think Petrino's loss will impact his game much. For all the talk of Petrino system QB's - the two that did not make it were LeFors and Brohm. Brohm was a huge bust but LeFors was undersized and the definition of college QB. Mallet would of been a first rounder but character questions caused his drop. Wilson is probably the most well rounded QB prospect.

I would also like to see a write up on Glennon. He ended last year on fire, I think he has a shot to go round 1 with a good season.

Wilson has a great arm but his mechanics (especially his throwing motion) are very inconsistent; he sidearms way too many passes and needs to clean up his footwork as well so I'd like to see improvements in those two areas this year. Logan Thomas looks a lot more advanced in that regard which is why I have him ahead at this point, although I'll agree that he's not the athletic freak that Cam Newton is (more of a Josh Freeman/Ben Roethlisberger type of athlete.)

Matthew Jones
05-04-2012, 09:46 AM
Just added a scouting report for E.J. Manuel after reviewing the Florida game. I also watched him against Oklahoma, Boston College, Miami, and Notre Dame last season although my focus was more relaxed last season. I'm going to watch Mike Glennon next. There's a video of him online in case anyone wants to watch him for themselves:

hEn_9QvOCfI

I may download another of Glennon's games as well.

SolidGold
05-04-2012, 10:13 AM
Glennon has a cannon...that throw at :55 seconds was awesome

Matthew Jones
05-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Just posted my notes on Glennon!

tjsunstein
05-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Glennon has a cannon...that throw at :55 seconds was awesome
I guess it was a great throw since it was completed but it wasn't really a good decision.

But, awesome work RoP!

ncst8fan83
05-05-2012, 02:43 PM
Just posted my notes on Glennon!

Completely agree on just about everything you noted. A couple things I will point out:
a) he's listed at 6'6" 232#
b) isn't EVERY read predetermined? I get that he mostly goes with his first pre-snap read, but he's in a west coast offensive system that the QB's are not really given full reign to toy with on the fly.

With that said, your 3rd round grade is fair at the moment, but I could definitely see him rocket up boards once the combine comes around. Nice to know your thoughts though.

Raiderz4Life
05-05-2012, 02:55 PM
I would love the Raiders to land someone like Wilson. I would ideally like Barkley or Bray but doubt we're in position to draft any of em.

Matthew Jones
05-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Completely agree on just about everything you noted. A couple things I will point out:
a) he's listed at 6'6" 232#
b) isn't EVERY read predetermined? I get that he mostly goes with his first pre-snap read, but he's in a west coast offensive system that the QB's are not really given full reign to toy with on the fly.

With that said, your 3rd round grade is fair at the moment, but I could definitely see him rocket up boards once the combine comes around. Nice to know your thoughts though.

He just seems to attempt a pass to his primary target every time regardless of coverage/defense; I'd like to see him go to his second or third options rather than trying to rifle it in there.

WCH
05-05-2012, 03:05 PM
I need to do more work on E.J. Manuel, Denard Robinson, etc. before I post their scouting reports but I figured I'd post the notes I took last year on some of the top quarterback prospects in this draft class since people seem interested in discussing 2013 already. Let me know what you think!

I'm really looking forward to hearing what you think of Denard Robinson. This will be his second season in a pro-style system, and I'm wondering if you think it's possible for him to improve enough to be given a shot at QB. I'm just as interested in his projection at other positions (most likely at WR, IMO).

Matthew Jones
05-05-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm really looking forward to hearing what you think of Denard Robinson. This will be his second season in a pro-style system, and I'm wondering if you think it's possible for him to improve enough to be given a shot at QB. I'm just as interested in his projection at other positions (most likely at WR, IMO).

I'm going to comment on a little bit of everything for Robinson. I'll try watching Michigan's bowl game against Virginia Tech in the next few days and writing up something.

Shane P. Hallam
05-05-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm really looking forward to hearing what you think of Denard Robinson. This will be his second season in a pro-style system, and I'm wondering if you think it's possible for him to improve enough to be given a shot at QB. I'm just as interested in his projection at other positions (most likely at WR, IMO).

Denard Robinson is going to be a divisive prospect I imagine. Move to WR seems pretty likely.

WMD
05-05-2012, 06:25 PM
Denard Robinson is going to be a divisive prospect I imagine. Move to WR seems pretty likely.
He'll be better in the NFL than Tebow!

RaiderNation
05-05-2012, 06:28 PM
If the Jets and Tebow have success in using him and Sanchez together right, I could see Robinsons stock rise a lot like Pat White did when the wildcat was the new thing to do on offense. Robinson is obviously a better athlete and football player, and a team with a struggling young QB could try and adapt to a 2 QB type system and use Robinson as slot WR and return man as well.

Mufasa
05-05-2012, 06:49 PM
You don't think Robinson will come out next year do you?

Shane P. Hallam
05-05-2012, 06:51 PM
You don't think Robinson will come out next year do you?

Kinda tough not to since he will be a senior.

Mufasa
05-05-2012, 06:56 PM
Wow really? ****, time flies.

ChiefMojo
05-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Here is a prospect that is under the radar right now but could really move up the draft boards when it comes to QB's... Dayne Crist from Kansas.

Sure many know about Crist while at Notre Dame but his best years and before injury happened when Charlie Weis was still his head coach. Now he will get one more year to prove to everyone he is indeed a quality NFL QB with him being with Weis again.

Word is Crist looked very good during the Spring at Kansas and the QB after him in Jake Heaps is looking very good also.

SenorGato
05-05-2012, 08:24 PM
Any thoughts on Sean Renfree the QB at Duke?

Wizdom
05-05-2012, 11:22 PM
Well after reading through this site, I figured I should join as I have lots to say about these posts that I'm reading and I must say I greatly enjoy all of the work that you've put into each QB. I'm going to give my two-cents about Landry Jones.

I am a huge OU fan, I have grown up a 5 minute walk from the football stadium in Norman so I've watched Landry through the years to see how he has come along. I can't give the Todd McShay type analysis that you've provided, but I can share with you the trends that he's shown over the 3 years that I've watched him play.

He is a very nervous player, he does not play well under pressure outside of a select few games. Against Florida State he threw 2 INT's and was about 11-25 in that game I believe, yet OU still won the game in large part to a great performance by the defense. Against OSU he was God awful. When he is at home though he is in my opinion the top QB in the NCAA. If you check his home stats they are Heisman potential easily, but it's the road games that kill him. He psychs himself out during all of the road games, and I don't know how much that mentality will continue on into the NFL. He also is one who has in the past struggled to go through his progressions. If you noticed when Ryan Broyles went down with the ACL injury, he did not throw a single TD pass in the last 3 games of the season. He was so focused on trying to get the ball to Ryan that once he lost that option he was somewhat doomed. He did still have Kenny Stills, Jaz Reynolds, and a few other WRs along with a pretty balanced RB corps. But there is a reason Ryan is the NCAA receptions leader, with Landry always eyeing him as his first priority for the most part. In the NFL he won't be able to do that as NFL players are talented enough to make a jump on the ball and pick him off, which will hurt him. He has improved however as going through progressions but he still needs to greatly work on that, and like you had stated earlier, improve his anticipation of routes instead of waiting to have the receiver come open.

In the 3 years that I've watched Landry play however, he has VASTLY improved his skill set and talents. There was an article in the local newspaper about a month ago where he went to Florida this offseason to work with NFL QB coaches on his footwork and his mechanics I think. I am very interested to see if he's improved this year. The talent around him this year though may be the best of any team in the country, and I mean that from a non-biased fan. They're going to make him look like a very good QB if he can get the ball out and to them which I trust he can. If you don't believe me on the talent group around him, this was called the best WR class that OU has ever had by Coach Stoops. I believe Landry can greatly improve his draft stock this season, and as a fans sake I sure hope he does. Great work anyways and I hope you update this as the season unfolds, I want to see your later analysis of Landry to come.

jth1331
05-07-2012, 11:46 AM
As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.

Matthew Jones
05-07-2012, 12:45 PM
Here is a prospect that is under the radar right now but could really move up the draft boards when it comes to QB's... Dayne Crist from Kansas.

Sure many know about Crist while at Notre Dame but his best years and before injury happened when Charlie Weis was still his head coach. Now he will get one more year to prove to everyone he is indeed a quality NFL QB with him being with Weis again.

Word is Crist looked very good during the Spring at Kansas and the QB after him in Jake Heaps is looking very good also.
I'll be keeping an eye on Crist this year if I get the opportunity.
Any thoughts on Sean Renfree the QB at Duke?
I didn't watch any Duke games last year because their top draft prospect was Matt Daniels, sorry.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-07-2012, 01:43 PM
He just seems to attempt a pass to his primary target every time regardless of coverage/defense; I'd like to see him go to his second or third options rather than trying to rifle it in there.

This is my main complaint with Glennon. Even if he comes off his first read it's almost always on the same side of the field.

Also, for all his arm strength he doesn't seem to throw deep or even intermediate-deep all that often.

He was very good last year for a first year starter...if he was a freshman or sophomore. Unfortunately, he was a redshirt junior. Draftable either way, but not sure he'll ever live up to his supposed potential at this point

TuckNole
05-07-2012, 02:34 PM
As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.

Sounds like FSU fans pining for Ponder all last year.

Ghost of Juice
05-07-2012, 03:05 PM
Does anyone think if Denard adds some weight he might have a shot at RB? I love his vision and I think that he can help more at RB than WR.

brat316
05-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Qb friendly draft, like the draft of 04.

Big Bird
05-07-2012, 03:26 PM
I said it in another thread and will say it again, Landry Jones arm talent is very good. The guy struggles, but Mark Sanchez went 5th overall and he had less starts, similar struggles, and an inferior arm to Landry Jones.

Also, it was interesting you didn't bring up how Barkley handles pressure whatsoever. Biggest downfall I've seen with him so far. He doesn't always seem to throw with conviction. Constantly hesitating on his passes, taking false steps when defenders aren't near him. It's the reason why his deep ball sails miles away from his receivers most of the time.

I like Barkley, but I've cooled on him big time and can't seem to comprehend this #1 overall talk.

dmoneyrockin
05-07-2012, 07:59 PM
Does anyone think if Denard adds some weight he might have a shot at RB? I love his vision and I think that he can help more at RB than WR.





I agree. I think he could get a shot at RB. I like his skill set for the position, and he's already bigger than high picks this year in Pead and James.


Ultimately I see him playing a "SLASH" type role in the nfl. He's too good of an athlete and playmaker to leave him on the bench as a backup QB.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
05-07-2012, 11:07 PM
RoP,

Any chance we could get your thoughts on Brad Sorensen of Southern Utah?

I know that may be hard since I don't think a lost of Thunderbird tape is online.

Iamcanadian
05-08-2012, 07:32 AM
I certainly love the hard work but I really question your ability to assess your rankings properly based solely on your own judgment.
Bucky Brooks early assessments are usually pretty solid and as an ex scout he has serious contacts within the scouting profession and tends to report what a majority of them are thinking at this point in the 2013 draft process, which is sketchy at best. His final rankings may be only average but as a starting point, he is a real source.
I think the mistake you make is the failure to check your opinions against other sources and rely only on your own abilities. GM's in the NFL hire numerous scouts to assess talent, note their collective opinions and then scout the players in the end themselves before coming to a final decision. They obviously have scouts they trust more than others but I doubt they dismiss anybodies opinions without checking them out thoroughly.
You appear to have a bright future as a draftnik but in the end your reputation will be based on your final assessments and to rely totally on your own opinion as I previously stated, is not how real scouting is done. You need a system where you check out others opinions more closely and then go back and reassess your own to see if they have seen something you missed or visa versa.
I give this advise as a 55 year draftnik who has been at this hobby for a long time, and I absolutely love the hard work I see you putting in and believe you could be another 'Scott' in the making.

Bucky Brook's top 5 QB's:
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
E.J. Manuel
Tyler Bray
t-Aaron Murray
t-Landry Jones

Logan Thomas and Geno Smith are probably close but IMO Thomas who hasn't played QB all that long, is very raw compared to the others.
I'd love to see you break down Bucky Brook's assessment against your own opinions on why you disagree or what you may have missed. You can find his assessment on NFL.com.

SenorGato
05-08-2012, 10:29 AM
I didn't watch any Duke games last year because their top draft prospect was Matt Daniels, sorry.

I hear good things.

Matthew Jones
05-08-2012, 10:37 AM
I certainly love the hard work but I really question your ability to assess your rankings properly based solely on your own judgment.
Bucky Brooks early assessments are usually pretty solid and as an ex scout he has serious contacts within the scouting profession and tends to report what a majority of them are thinking at this point in the 2013 draft process, which is sketchy at best. His final rankings may be only average but as a starting point, he is a real source.
I think the mistake you make is the failure to check your opinions against other sources and rely only on your own abilities. GM's in the NFL hire numerous scouts to assess talent, note their collective opinions and then scout the players in the end themselves before coming to a final decision. They obviously have scouts they trust more than others but I doubt they dismiss anybodies opinions without checking them out thoroughly.
You appear to have a bright future as a draftnik but in the end your reputation will be based on your final assessments and to rely totally on your own opinion as I previously stated, is not how real scouting is done. You need a system where you check out others opinions more closely and then go back and reassess your own to see if they have seen something you missed or visa versa.
I give this advise as a 55 year draftnik who has been at this hobby for a long time, and I absolutely love the hard work I see you putting in and believe you could be another 'Scott' in the making.

Bucky Brook's top 5 QB's:
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
E.J. Manuel
Tyler Bray
t-Aaron Murray
t-Landry Jones

Logan Thomas and Geno Smith are probably close but IMO Thomas who hasn't played QB all that long, is very raw compared to the others.
I'd love to see you break down Bucky Brook's assessment against your own opinions on why you disagree or what you may have missed. You can find his assessment on NFL.com.
Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.

Wizdom
05-08-2012, 10:48 AM
As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.

Good to see another OU alumni on the forums. Boomer Sooner!

But you're exactly right between Landry and Bradford. Just a quick fact, I watched Sam play his senior year against a high school that's just right down the road from mine. You'd never think the kid would be that good, he didn't even make it to the state playoffs his senior year, he went something like 5-7. Also, at the time when he was being recruited, my friend's dad was the Offensive Coordinator at OU at the time, and he was the only coach on the coaching staff who wanted to recruit Sam... Look how that turned out.

But as far as football now, Landry's draft stock greatly plummeted from last year, especially the second half of the season. He played very poorly without Broyles, but even before he was out he was going downhill as far as his performance. Landry has all the skill sets to be a great QB, he has a good arm, he's about 6'3" or so I think, and is a pretty hefty guy when you see him without pads. But he greatly has struggled with progressions and his accuracy at times. Sometimes he has incredible accuracy, but other passes just make you shake your head when watching OU. Kirk Herbstreit had him winning the Heisman last year as his preseason prediction, but I think this year he has a much better chance as far as his performance will allow him. The receiving corps is going to be incredible this year, and hopefully they help him out to improve his draft stock. My prediction is Landry will go around 25th overall, and be the next Aaron Rodgers plan, sitting behind a starting QB now as they mold him into something great. He won't ever be as good as A-Rod, but same concept.

Iamcanadian
05-10-2012, 12:29 AM
Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.

I agree with most of what you are saying, however nobody will care how they played last year if they suddenly put it all together in their final seasons. Size and potential count for a lot in the preseason evaluations. Their previous season won't count for squat if they have a super senior or junior year. You'd be amazed how many NFL QB's did very little till their final season when they blossomed.
Of all the QB's on Brook's list, the one that worries me the most is Wilson because Petrino doesn't have a good record for producing pro QB's.

TuckNole
05-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.

Don't think Thomas is more advanced than Manuel. Thomas isn't asked to do much at all in the way of checks and reads in that offense, which are EJ's problems. EJ would look better than he currently does if he played in VT's simpler offense and Thomas would look terrible trying to run Fisher's offense.


I'm just not a fan of either as a top prospect.

CowboysBeastMode
05-10-2012, 05:26 PM
i disagree with your assessment of murray i think he's mark sanchez. his physical tools are just "good enough" and his accuracy seemed streaky game to game imo.

i think with a good year geno smith could be in 2nd round possibilities

and for denard robinson, he is an incredible athlete but his passing makes tebow look like dan marino

descendency
05-10-2012, 05:40 PM
Qb friendly draft, like the draft of 04.

Every year someone says this and half of the people don't declare.

ChiefMojo
05-12-2012, 11:50 PM
I guess I'm bigger on Logan Thomas than some. I see a better version of Josh Freeman. It is pretty amazing how advance Thomas is with so little time playing QB.

In reality I like Thomas, Bray and Wilson better than Barkley. I know it seems Barkley is the consensus #1 but I just don't see it.

stlouisfan37
05-16-2012, 05:05 AM
I watched some of the videos that people posted on the video thread. I really like that thread. I can see myself developing another addiction:)

I really like Aaron Murray. I think he has a great arm, a quick release and, my favorite trait in a QB, decisiveness. When he sees an open man he immediately goes with it. I wish he was taller. Some guys deal with lack of height better than others. He appears to play "short" to me. Then again, I watched his tape right after watching Bray, who is 6'6".

Speaking of Bray, am I the only one that noticed that when he drops back to pass he always gives away which side of the field he is going to by shifting his front foot in that direction as he sets up? If you watch his tape, as he settles into his drop his front foot turns either right, left or straight ahead, and he always throws that direction. Not only is it a dead giveaway as to where he is going with the ball, but is reduces his field of vision significantly as well. If I was a corner playing against him I would be looking to jump that every time. It's obviously a footwork issue. The question to me is how difficult would it be to fix such a habit. He does have a really nice arm, is very accurate, and a better athlete than most QB's. I want to watch more of him for sure.

I watched the entire Oregon game and came away fairly unimpressed with Barkley. He is definitely a strong game manager and has control of his offense. Really, more than anything, I just don't think he has a very good arm. Yes, he makes all the throws, but the difficult throws to the sidelines always come in low and the ball loses steam quickly. What's more, he almost launches his entire body into it in order to get it there. He only threw 4 or 5 passes over 20 yards the entire game and, honestly, on deep throws I thought his receivers made him look good. He does a lot of "dinking and dunking" and is very accurate in the short and intermediate game. Someone here made a comment along the lines of "Barkley makes 60 yard deep throws look effortless." I would like to know what a good game is to watch to see him do that. On a side note, Marquise Lee is really good. He might be my new favorite receiving prospect alongside Sammy Watkins.

Jones did nothing for me. His footwork leaves a lot to be desired. He never sets his feet, which I think is probably more responsible for his lack of velocity than an actual lack of arm strength. He rattles easily and doesn't look to have a whole lot of pocket presence or poise. I don't see him tearing up the NFL.

I like Wilson a lot, and I think he looks to be the most complete from the small amount I have watched here. He stands tall in the face of a passrush, and has a lot of zip on his throws. I thought he looked very comfortable as the leader of his team. While he didn't complete a lot of his deep throws, they were all pretty much right on the money. If he has a weakness it is that he isn't elusive or real athletic. It will be interesting to see how he does this year after losing his receivers to the NFL.

I am going to keep an open mind about all of these guys, as I haven't watched nearly enough to make a thorough analysis. My initial rankings, however, would be...

1) Wilson
2) Murray
3) Bray
4) Barkley
5) Jones

703SKINS202
05-18-2012, 09:11 AM
I think Geno Smith has way too much talent/potential to go lower than the third, more likely the 2nd.

Matthew Jones
05-18-2012, 09:32 AM
I think Geno Smith has way too much talent/potential to go lower than the third, more likely the 2nd.

You may be right but I don't think he'll develop into a quality starting quarterback. The first two rounds should be reserved for starting-caliber quarterbacks, with developmental guys going afterwards. Smith has a nice arm but his offense is a difficult translation because he didn't do a lot of things NFL quarterbacks have to do. I didn't see top-notch decision-making or accuracy when I watched.

WCH
05-18-2012, 09:36 AM
Every year someone says this and half of the people don't declare.

Another common statement is: "I wouldn't draft QB-X. Next year is a better QB draft, so I would just wait until then."

Obviously, nobody said that this past season. Most years, though, they do. I think people are excessively optimistic when they watch sophomore QBs. I know that I thought sophomore Chad Henne was going to be a star, but he's basically the same guy that he was then.