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View Full Version : HUGE development regarding Bountygate


Jimmy
05-04-2012, 07:32 AM
Andrew Brandt, ESPN's Business analyst, just got off ESPN's Mike & Mike.

HUGE news regarding the Bountygate scandal.

The NFLPA has filed a grievance vs. the NFL challenging Commissioner Goodell's authority to suspend the four players he did. More to come.

What's the NFLPA's argument?

The argument is that the new CBA, which was signed at the Hall of Fame Aug 4, has a provision in there that says the commissioner cannot levy discipline against conduct PRIOR TO THE CBA. You have the CBA Aug. 4, 2011, and then you have bounty gate WAY before. So anything before Aug. 4, this grievance says, is immune to the commissioner ruling against it.

Even if that argument fails, the NFPA argues that bountygate shouldn't be in front of Goodell. It should be in front of Ted Cottrell and Art Shell, who are designated parties to hear what goes on ON-THE-FIELD, esp. these big, violent hits.

Their strategy all along is to get this out of Goodell's control, and it appears as if they will be able to.

This is a paraphrase of Andrew Brandt, who again is on Mike and Mike right now.

bigbluedefense
05-04-2012, 07:52 AM
I wonder if Greg Williams can appeal for the same reason.

Caddy
05-04-2012, 08:03 AM
Does the exclusion apply to everything prior to the signing date, or just what happened between the expiry of the previous CBA and signing of the new one?

Jimmy
05-04-2012, 08:03 AM
Does the exclusion apply to everything prior to the signing date, or just what happened between the expiry of the previous CBA and signing of the new one?

Everything prior to the signing date.

Caddy
05-04-2012, 08:06 AM
Everything prior to the signing date.

Where is the grievance filed?

A Perfect Score
05-04-2012, 08:10 AM
Bountygate is still a stupid name for a scandal.

WCH
05-04-2012, 08:18 AM
*gate really needs to stop. The Watergate scandal was called "Watergate" because they broke into the Watergate Hotel. If another scandal were to happen at Watergate, would it be called Watergategate? What if the break-in had taken place at a Four Seasons? Would this be the "Bounty Seasons" scandal (actually, that name would suck less).

A Perfect Score
05-04-2012, 08:20 AM
*gate really needs to stop. The Watergate scandal was called "Watergate" because they broke into the Watergate Hotel. If another break-in were to happen at Watergate, would it be called Watergategate? What if the break-in had taken place at a Four Seasons? Would this be the "Bounty Seasons" scandal (actually, that name would suck less).

Bounty Season sounds like a wicked awesome action movie starring this man:

http://www.caption-of-the-day.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/steven_seagal.jpg

Asteinebach
05-04-2012, 08:45 AM
I would imagine that the NFLPA digging this up in the CBA might change the face of all the suspensions handed down. This might take some time, but if it works, we could see reduced suspensions of all players and coaches involved.

Let me just go on record as saying that I agree with all the suspensions that Goodell handed down, even with the case of Jonathon Vilma.

Giantsfan1080
05-04-2012, 08:46 AM
The coaches aren't subject to the NFLPA. They have their own seperate agreement I'm pretty sure.

As for this loophole are you telling me not one lawyer in the NFL office didn't notice this? I would imagine they have to be prepared.

K Train
05-04-2012, 08:47 AM
this rules, i hope they make goodell eat ****

GallopingGhost
05-04-2012, 08:48 AM
Lawyered...

Trogdor
05-04-2012, 09:08 AM
:facepalm:

"On-the-field incidents". This isn't just about the fact they were playing with intent to injure. The fact they were receiving financial incentives outside their contracts to perform said acts is a major facet.

Contractual issues are not "on-the-field incidents". Guaranteed this was discussed at length and not a surprise curveball.

The union is absolutely shameful for screaming about protecting the players and play safety during the CBA agreement and then attacking punishment for players taking extra money to maim and injure intentionally.

Rabscuttle
05-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Why is the union protecting members that were trying to harm other union members? A big reason for unions losing power has been their desire to protect the bottom feeders at the expense of all other entities involved.

jojo
05-04-2012, 09:44 AM
this rules, i hope they make goodell eat ****

Me too, just to see the look on his face.

When they get into negotiations with the PA Goodell will close this loophole & crush them in his standard monomaniacal mode, like Darth Vader telepathically crushed the throat of an underling who gave the wrong answer in Empire.

descendency
05-04-2012, 10:01 AM
I wonder if Greg Williams can appeal for the same reason.

No. The CBA doesn't apply to him.

Edit: It would have to be different reasoning. The NFLCA is a joke.

Sloopy
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Maybe I'm just misinformed (haven't really been following this, just don't really care) but weren't they caught on tape still participating in these activities all of the way until their final playoff game? And Didn't that playoff game take place after the signing of the new CBA?

Don't understand how this really fixes anything.

FUNBUNCHER
05-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Outcomes should come into play in deciding whether 'harm' to the game was done by Gregg WIlliams offering to pay players for particularly vicious hits.

Intent alone in the NFL should not be a crime.

When Butkus says he wants to hit a player so hard I want his 'head to pop off', or Lawrence Taylor issues the same kind of sentiment, you don't fine them for it.

If Gregg Williams hadn't offered monetary compensation for big hits, I hope this wouldn't be a scandal.
However it ticks me off that people still talk as if the Saints were turning opponents into paraplegics on Sundays.

Goodell needs to be taken down a peg IMO. He's power crazy.

Ravens1991
05-04-2012, 11:12 AM
So the Skins and Cowboys shouldnt be punished for that cap situation right?

Jimmy
05-04-2012, 11:28 AM
So the Skins and Cowboys shouldnt be punished for that cap situation right?

The argument is that [B]the new CBA, which was signed at the Hall of Fame Aug 4, has a provision in there that says the commissioner cannot levy discipline against conduct PRIOR TO THE CBA.

the keyword in the statement is "CONDUCT". Player conduct and behavior on and off the field.

Cap situations don't have to do with conduct.

Monomach
05-04-2012, 11:31 AM
Well, they were still doing it last season, well after the new CBA had been signed. That documentary dude had the audio of it before the 49ers game.

Back under Goodell's control it goes...

Jimmy
05-04-2012, 02:28 PM
Well, they were still doing it last season, well after the new CBA had been signed. That documentary dude had the audio of it before the 49ers game.

Back under Goodell's control it goes...

yes, audio. Gregg Williams. no proof villa or Hargrove, who wasn't even on the team last year if I'm correct, participated after aug 4.

D-Unit
05-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Why are people upset at Goddell? Why are people siding with the players involved in this bountygate? Screw 'em. Heck, it'd be better off for the Saints if Vilma was gone. He sucks.

Dangermouse
05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
I hope they win, to be honest.

Dangermouse
05-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Why are people upset at Goddell? Why are people siding with the players involved in this bountygate? Screw 'em. Heck, it'd be better off for the Saints if Vilma was gone. He sucks.

Think about it as a defensive guy, how do you actually hit a guy without trying to hurt him? It's not possible. That's why we use pads and helmets. Every time you make a hit you're trying to injure the other player, and if you're not, then you aren't giving it enough. Only difference here is it was openly discussed in the locker room and money changed hands.

Flyboy
05-04-2012, 02:53 PM
However it ticks me off that people still talk as if the Saints were turning opponents into paraplegics on Sundays.

Goodell needs to be taken down a peg IMO. He's power crazy.

Thank you very much. I avoid many of the Bountygate threads mainly because I just don't have the energy to fight and argue in them, however, it's a great point. Even amongst all this, during those seasons we were far from a hardly "dirty" team. Like Joe Vitt said, we got punished for the spoken word more so than the clenched fist and the fact that we ignored the warnings and kept doing it. While as a team, we do deserve to be punished but I don't think one person can really mention an incident in which we specifically target a player with specific hits to specific body parts. It just didn't happen.

WCH
05-04-2012, 07:07 PM
Guys, I'd be pretty shocked if the NFLPA actually presents a case that they think can win. Keep in mind, the NFL has multiple independent first-hand testimonies and 18000 pages of documents that implicate some two dozen players. This was confirmed just two days ago, by outside legal advisors. Also keep in mind that when the Williams tape was released, offensive players (who make up half of the NFLPA constituency) took to twitter to express their outrage while the public was nothing short of *shocked.* The last thing that either side wants is a legal battle or PR battle that would force the NFL to actually start leaking/releasing evidence.

This is a bunch of hand-waving. The NFLPA is just going through the motions, and Vilma is going to fall on the sword (whether he fully realizes it or not).

Bucs_Rule
05-05-2012, 11:38 AM
It's just like statue of limitations. It doesn't matter if they have video tapes of a robbery, if the crime was too far in the past nothing can be done.

If the new CBA says players cannot be punished for what happened before it was signed then they cannot be punished.

VAfy-ya
05-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Guys, I'd be pretty shocked if the NFLPA actually presents a case that they think can win. Keep in mind, the NFL has multiple independent first-hand testimonies and 18000 pages of documents that implicate some two dozen players. This was confirmed just two days ago, by outside legal advisors. Also keep in mind that when the Williams tape was released, offensive players (who make up half of the NFLPA constituency) took to twitter to express their outrage while the public was nothing short of *shocked.* The last thing that either side wants is a legal battle or PR battle that would force the NFL to actually start leaking/releasing evidence.

This is a bunch of hand-waving. The NFLPA is just going through the motions, and Vilma is going to fall on the sword (whether he fully realizes it or not).

Very much this. The NFLPA is not going to create a PR nightmare and division within its union over a couple of suspended players. Those players will have to bite the bullet but being those players are also union members themselves, the NFLPA has to look like they support them as well, which is this move by them to hopefully get some of their suspensions reduced.

BeerBaron
05-05-2012, 12:45 PM
******* loopholes.

descendency
05-05-2012, 07:13 PM
Guys, I'd be pretty shocked if the NFLPA actually presents a case that they think can win. Keep in mind, the NFL has multiple independent first-hand testimonies and 18000 pages of documents that implicate some two dozen players. This was confirmed just two days ago, by outside legal advisors. Also keep in mind that when the Williams tape was released, offensive players (who make up half of the NFLPA constituency) took to twitter to express their outrage while the public was nothing short of *shocked.* The last thing that either side wants is a legal battle or PR battle that would force the NFL to actually start leaking/releasing evidence.

This is a bunch of hand-waving. The NFLPA is just going through the motions, and Vilma is going to fall on the sword (whether he fully realizes it or not).

The problem is the NFLPA can not win. Either way the players are hurt. This isn't high school debate.

Bulldogs
05-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Guys, I'd be pretty shocked if the NFLPA actually presents a case that they think can win. Keep in mind, the NFL has multiple independent first-hand testimonies and 18000 pages of documents that implicate some two dozen players. This was confirmed just two days ago, by outside legal advisors. Also keep in mind that when the Williams tape was released, offensive players (who make up half of the NFLPA constituency) took to twitter to express their outrage while the public was nothing short of *shocked.* The last thing that either side wants is a legal battle or PR battle that would force the NFL to actually start leaking/releasing evidence.

This is a bunch of hand-waving. The NFLPA is just going through the motions, and Vilma is going to fall on the sword (whether he fully realizes it or not).

Great post, fully agree.

Gay Ork Wang
05-05-2012, 07:45 PM
People hate on Goddell way too much.

Raiderz4Life
05-05-2012, 07:52 PM
People hate on Goddell way too much.

He's just easy to hate

nepg
05-05-2012, 08:03 PM
Bounty Season sounds like a wicked awesome action movie starring this man:

http://www.caption-of-the-day.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/steven_seagal.jpg

With this man as the main antagonist

http://justcelebs.fateback.com/photos/lundgren/dolph8.jpg

bucfan12
05-06-2012, 08:04 PM
I believe Goodell couldn't hand out any discipline to any violations during the time of March 2011 until August 2011, the time there was really no CBA.

This isn';t an excuse for what the Saints were doing when a contract was in place.