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View Full Version : Damontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M


gpngc
05-14-2012, 11:08 PM
That is all.

Bixby (Thumper)
05-15-2012, 04:23 AM
Care to elaborate?

fenikz
05-15-2012, 06:06 AM
10 characters

HakeemtheMachine
05-15-2012, 08:20 AM
I think he is very underrated. People seem to give most of the hype to his teammate Sean Porter but Moore is the better prospect. First 1 I did of him

Dont remember how i posted vids here its been so long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DciH6GgnDCc

SenorGato
05-15-2012, 09:46 AM
When did A&M get interesting?

This guy has nice size, moves well, has thrown up 14 sacks in two years, and generally looks like a cool prospect.i like him better than Mr. Estonia SMU DE.

gpngc
05-15-2012, 10:56 PM
I think he is very underrated. People seem to give most of the hype to his teammate Sean Porter but Moore is the better prospect. First 1 I did of him

Dont remember how i posted vids here its been so long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DciH6GgnDCc

Mr. Nicks speaks the truth.

He doesn't tackle well, hasn't developed pass-rush moves, but his potential is scary.

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2012, 04:45 AM
When did A&M get interesting?

This guy has nice size, moves well, has thrown up 14 sacks in two years, and generally looks like a cool prospect.i like him better than Mr. Estonia SMU DE.


A&M has been Linebacker U of the Southwest for years.
Johnny Holland/John Roper/Aaron Wallace/William Thomas/Quentin Coryatt/Reggie Brown/Warrick Holdman/Dat Nguyen are the most notable.

Von Miller might be the best of them all.

I don't know if any college program has had more LBs drafted in the last 25 years than A&M off the top of my head.

Brent
05-16-2012, 05:34 AM
Keep your eye on Stephen Jenkins, #45, DaMontre is probably going to get himself suspended, again, at some point.

gpngc
10-25-2012, 10:59 AM
Kiper has this dude ranked #5 on his big board right now.

I have to say I saw this coming.

duesouth
10-26-2012, 06:32 AM
i like him better than Mr. Estonia SMU DE.

Different type of player - but agree Moore is a much better prospect.

Stamper
10-26-2012, 05:45 PM
I feel like his 5 & 10 yard splits are off the charts for someone his size. I was watching a little bit of his tape recently and noticed how his acceleration was so high.

Ex: Often times on hb & qb draws he would engage his blocker, notice the ball carrier and just shoot off his man, thus creating his high number of TFL's.

He has a great motor but hasn't developed many pass rush moves. I obviously think thats teachable and not much of a deal breaker.

Scott Wright
10-26-2012, 08:03 PM
Love this guy! Added him to the first round in my new mock.

Moore has done a great job of filling Von Miller's shoes.

18.0 Sacks and 34.5 TFL in his last 19 games!

Abaddon
10-29-2012, 06:11 PM
A&M belongs in the SEC. We accept them as one of our own.

Mizzou, on the other hand...

Abaddon
11-01-2012, 05:10 PM
Moore is #5 on Rob Rang's big board now.

keylime_5
11-01-2012, 05:18 PM
He's the top pass rusher and a top 10 pick in most mocks now. I hope the Browns take him.

Brent
11-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Keep your eye on Stephen Jenkins, #45, DaMontre is probably going to get himself suspended, again, at some point.
Happy to be wrong on this!

Brent
11-03-2012, 01:07 PM
BTW, he just chased down a WR who had a 10 yard lead on him to save a TD

Iamcanadian
11-03-2012, 01:47 PM
I like him a lot but he's still behind Mingo, Montgomery and Dion Jordan IMO and maybe a few others as well. It's a great DE class. I'm kind of intrigued by Ezikiel Ansak of BYU who was once a 200 meter sprinter and is getting some comparisons to Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants.

dannyz
11-07-2012, 02:16 AM
I just read that he wants to come back for another year. I don't know if that is smart because right now it's all there for him and he could be a top 10 pick but if he went back would have to battle Clowney and the other guys for next year.

duesouth
11-07-2012, 03:25 AM
I like him a lot but he's still behind Mingo, Montgomery and Dion Jordan IMO and maybe a few others as well. It's a great DE class. I'm kind of intrigued by Ezikiel Ansak of BYU who was once a 200 meter sprinter and is getting some comparisons to Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants.

Ansah looks a bit bigger and stronger than JPP did at this stage of his career. Considering he hasn't played much football he's pretty good with his hands. Does play too high when he gets tired, but that can be said of quite a few prospects. If you can find the tape on YouTube of him blowing up a fake punt against Boise it's worth it - dumped the blocker right on his backside and made the tackle short of the first down.

Unique skill set and I think may test out better at the Combine than JPP, who I seem to recall was fairly average outside of wing span.

bruschis4all
11-07-2012, 08:17 AM
A&M has been Linebacker U of the Southwest for years.
Johnny Holland/John Roper/Aaron Wallace/William Thomas/Quentin Coryatt/Reggie Brown/Warrick Holdman/Dat Nguyen are the most notable.

Von Miller might be the best of them all.

I don't know if any college program has had more LBs drafted in the last 25 years than A&M off the top of my head.

How many on your list became good pro players? Please. PSU has a more impressive list in the NFL Today than they have had over 25 years; Bowman, Lee, Wake, Hali, Connor and Posluszny. Not to mention Conlan, Arrington, Brandon Short. Linebacker U. USC and Ohio St have put more lb's in the NFL than A&M.

keylime_5
11-07-2012, 10:18 AM
I like him a lot but he's still behind Mingo, Montgomery and Dion Jordan IMO and maybe a few others as well. It's a great DE class. I'm kind of intrigued by Ezikiel Ansak of BYU who was once a 200 meter sprinter and is getting some comparisons to Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants.

I like him a lot more than the LSU guys because he actually produces. Seems those two (Mingo especially) have all the ability of being 10+ sack guys but they don't get to the QB enough.

coltDraftnik
11-09-2012, 10:36 PM
I like him a lot more than the LSU guys because he actually produces. Seems those two (Mingo especially) have all the ability of being 10+ sack guys but they don't get to the QB enough.

I agree completely about the LSU guys. It is one thing to smoosh a cupcake, and something else to make a play in a big game. The very first 5 min I watched an A&M game this year, Moore got a sack. I think it was verses Mississippi State. You see a guy for 5min, and he makes a play. Not Bad. He'll be gone before my Colts can get him. I don't actually see a whole lot of play makers at LB this year. I'd be wary of Mante Te'o in the first. I think he is going to slip a little. Damontre Moore is definately my favorite LB this year. Speaking of the Penn State linebackers, I think this year they did it again. Michael Mauti would be a steal in the 3rd. He definately stands out.

stlouisfan37
11-10-2012, 05:14 AM
How many on your list became good pro players? Please. PSU has a more impressive list in the NFL Today than they have had over 25 years; Bowman, Lee, Wake, Hali, Connor and Posluszny. Not to mention Conlan, Arrington, Brandon Short. Linebacker U. USC and Ohio St have put more lb's in the NFL than A&M.

I have found it to be very cyclical. About 6 years ago I did a study on whether or not statements like "Penn St=Linebacker U" actually held water. At that time the only linebacker from Penn St. who was starting in the NFL was Antonio Pierce, and the Giants cut him the next year.

And the school that produced the most starting offensive linemen? I was shocked to discover that it was...wait for it...Purdue?

87Canes
11-11-2012, 08:02 PM
I have found it to be very cyclical. About 6 years ago I did a study on whether or not statements like "Penn St=Linebacker U" actually held water. At that time the only linebacker from Penn St. who was starting in the NFL was Antonio Pierce, and the Giants cut him the next year.

And the school that produced the most starting offensive linemen? I was shocked to discover that it was...wait for it...Purdue?

What about Miami? Ray Lewis? Jon Beason? Jon Vilma? Colin McCarthy? DJ Williams? Ted Hendricks?

I think LB U shouldn't be about who has the most but instead the quality of those players. None of the above mentioned PSU guys come close to Ray Ray or even Ted Hendricks.

DeepThreat
11-11-2012, 08:06 PM
I like Moore in a 3-4 defense, but not as much as some seem to. He seems like he'd be better off lined up further outside, both to help his pass rush and to negate his lack of ability against the run.

I'd probably take him mid-first as a 3-4 team.

phlysac
11-11-2012, 09:03 PM
What about Miami? Ray Lewis? Jon Beason? Jon Vilma? Colin McCarthy? DJ Williams? Ted Hendricks?

I think LB U shouldn't be about who has the most but instead the quality of those players. None of the above mentioned PSU guys come close to Ray Ray or even Ted Hendricks.

Because Penn State was actually coined "Linebacker U" by the media back-in-the-day. He was studying the validity of such assertions.

bigbuc
11-19-2012, 08:46 PM
This guy has over 37 TFL and 20 sacks over the last two years. Is he top 5 player yet?

FUNBUNCHER
11-19-2012, 09:32 PM
I have found it to be very cyclical. About 6 years ago I did a study on whether or not statements like "Penn St=Linebacker U" actually held water. At that time the only linebacker from Penn St. who was starting in the NFL was Antonio Pierce, and the Giants cut him the next year.

And the school that produced the most starting offensive linemen? I was shocked to discover that it was...wait for it...Purdue?

Antonio Pierce went to Arizona, not PSU.

RCAChainGang
11-22-2012, 03:31 AM
I like his instincts to clog running lanes, but he just looked a little sluggish. I have only seen the KSU tape, but when a lineman got his hands on him he struggled to make an impact. He definitely has potential and looks like he is still learning to jump snaps, but I would put him behind several other pass rushers.

I'm no no draft guru though.

bruschis4all
11-22-2012, 07:21 AM
What about Miami? Ray Lewis? Jon Beason? Jon Vilma? Colin McCarthy? DJ Williams? Ted Hendricks?

I think LB U shouldn't be about who has the most but instead the quality of those players. None of the above mentioned PSU guys come close to Ray Ray or even Ted Hendricks.

You have to have more than 300 fans attend your games in order to be called Linebacker U.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/thanks-showing-miami-fans-photo-175408799--ncaaf.html

Brent
11-22-2012, 08:38 AM
This guy has over 37 TFL and 20 sacks over the last two years. Is he top 5 player yet?
he should be

JHL6719
11-22-2012, 10:18 AM
Derrick Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, Lee Roy Jordan, DeMeco Ryans, Keith McCants, Woodrow Lowe, Barry Krauss, E.J. Junior, Rolando McClain, Dont'a Hightower....

Abaddon
12-13-2012, 05:04 PM
Josh Liskiewitz ‏@JoshLiskiewitz
I talked at length the other day about the two tackles, but not as much on DE Damontre Moore - I gave him a 2nd round grade...

Josh Liskiewitz ‏@JoshLiskiewitz
Moore has a lot of skills you like in a DE prospect, but I don't see him bringing it consistently and he isn't an elite athlete.

Unbiased
12-13-2012, 05:56 PM
You have to have more than 300 fans attend your games in order to be called Linebacker U.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/thanks-showing-miami-fans-photo-175408799--ncaaf.html

Irrelevant post of the year....

SomethingAboutFB
01-04-2013, 09:47 PM
I like his instincts to clog running lanes, but he just looked a little sluggish. I have only seen the KSU tape, but when a lineman got his hands on him he struggled to make an impact. He definitely has potential and looks like he is still learning to jump snaps, but I would put him behind several other pass rushers.

I'm no no draft guru though.

I agree with you. I watched the cutup of Moore in the Mizzou game and LSU, he just looks slow off the snap. But tonight Cotton Bowl game, he is exploding off the LOS like there is no tomorrow. @DaneBugler said he's inconsistent, which i really see. But once he's on, he will destroy you!

Mid 1st rd would be my guess. At first I thought of him as a 3-4 OLB pass rush specialist, but tonight he showed me he can be a good 3-4 DE/DT

derza222
02-27-2013, 09:25 PM
Didn't think I saw that lack of athleticism he showed at the combine on tape, but I think it warrants a second look. Pro day will be pretty key. Where does he land now if the combine numbers stand up? Late 1/early 2 range if not worse?

Abaddon
02-27-2013, 09:31 PM
I sure did have this kid's natural talent overrated. Holy smokes.

PossibleCabbage
02-27-2013, 09:37 PM
Personally, not a fan. He can win in college, but I don't see a guy who can beat NFL talent around the edge. When I'm looking at a pass rusher I want to see something special (anything: motor, burst, strength, dip, whatever) and I can deal with deficient areas.

With Moore I see a guy who's more "no real flaws, but not significantly above average at anything". Second round pick, IMO. Not really because he's a top 50 talent, but because pass rushers always run out quickly.

Black Bolt
03-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Personally, not a fan. He can win in college, but I don't see a guy who can beat NFL talent around the edge. When I'm looking at a pass rusher I want to see something special (anything: motor, burst, strength, dip, whatever) and I can deal with deficient areas.

With Moore I see a guy who's more "no real flaws, but not significantly above average at anything". Second round pick, IMO. Not really because he's a top 50 talent, but because pass rushers always run out quickly.

I couldn't find the post, but I mentioned long ago that he looked to have a gut like a guy in his late 30's. Given his combine performance, I don't think it was due to the angle of the camera.

Kase1
03-05-2013, 05:53 PM
Im not big on the combine, so the fact that he 'tanked' at the combine doesn't do much for me, look at Vontaze Burfict last year. The kid STUNK at the combine and gave awful interviews, stepped into the NFL and played like a monster

That being said, I would LOVE 'Da Monster' Moore in the 2nd

raphael
03-05-2013, 06:19 PM
I like Moore a lot. You don't put up the production he did at such a young age through luck. He just turned 20 midway through last season. Plus he has such an all round game. With a lot of these guys it's an all or nothing case. Either they get to the quarterback or they're a handicap having on the field. The best of them get one sack a game on average. How much is that worth in terms of the negatives they bring when they don't get a sack? Aldon Smith played less than half his team's defensive snaps as a rookie and everyone was creaming themselves over him. Moore is an every down guy, and equally effective at end or linebacker. He led the team in tackles from the DE position last year. That is unheard of. Has the size (6-5, 250, 35" arms) to match up with the freak tight ends over the middle. Huge upside as well, with a pro workout program to firm up his body. Great character and personality. He and Luke Joeckel are the pick of the litter in this draft. Geno Smith not far behind.

bigbuc
03-05-2013, 07:46 PM
So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

raphael
03-05-2013, 07:59 PM
So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

I know, it's loopy. Plus football was Ansah's fourth or fifth choice in terms of trying to make a living off his athletic ability. Not to mention that he converted to Mormonism on a dime to get a ticket to the U.S. The guy will probably wind up pushing off for the Olympic bobsled team in a couple of years.

PossibleCabbage
03-05-2013, 09:12 PM
So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

You aren't drafted for what you did.

You're drafted for what we think you can do versus NFL talent.

If you draft people solely based on what they did in college, Everette Brown and Kellen Moore would have been top 10 picks. Brown's Senior Season at FSU was arguably more impressive than Moore's last season at TAMU, but Everette Brown couldn't beat anybody in the NFL. What makes you think Moore can?

That's the question you should be considering, not "what did he do in college."

As for Ansah, sure he only had 4.5 sacks in his college career, but you know who else had 4.5 sacks in his college career and was mistakenly selected behind 5 other pass rushers? Clay Matthews. If you think a guy's going to be great, then it doesn't really matter what he did in college.

SenorGato
03-05-2013, 09:29 PM
E.Brown was like 5'10 or something on top of not testing very well. Matthews was a LB not a DE in college.

I'm waiting for Moore's pro day before I'm off.

raphael
03-05-2013, 09:40 PM
E.Brown was like 5'10 or something on top of not testing very well. Matthews was a LB not a DE in college.

I'm waiting for Moore's pro day before I'm off.

Brown actually tested pretty well, 4.65 40, 26 reps, in those two events. But he had 71 tackles over three seasons in college, Moore had 85 last year alone. PLAYING DE :freakout: So, yeah bad comparison. Damontre was a couple of years younger when he did it as well.

Matthews grew up in football and loved the game so much he walked on at USC to get a chance to play. Ansah could care less. He tried just about every other sport going before ending up on a football field, and has hated the game for the most part since he did, according to reports from BYU. Again there is at least a two year age difference between the two athletes coming out. I'm betting on more than that. I'd say that Ansah is closer to 30 than 20 at the moment. Also Clay had 5.5 sacks fwtw...:evil_laugh:

Black Bolt
03-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Im not big on the combine, so the fact that he 'tanked' at the combine doesn't do much for me, look at Vontaze Burfict last year. The kid STUNK at the combine and gave awful interviews, stepped into the NFL and played like a monster

That being said, I would LOVE 'Da Monster' Moore in the 2nd

Burfict isn't that good.

metafour
03-05-2013, 10:21 PM
You aren't drafted for what you did.

You're drafted for what we think you can do versus NFL talent.

Yes, but where does Age relative to Performance fit into the picture? I actually considered starting a thread on this because this question goes relatively unanswered in the football scouting world, whereas for instance in baseball it pretty much shapes and defines player evaluation. Nothing paints this picture better than the International Free Agent market in baseball in which 16 year olds from Latin America are signed by MLB teams. A 16 year old showing certain tools/physical skills can be worth $1.5 million...however, that exact same player might be worth $10,000 or less if he is 18 years old instead of 16. Even 1-2 years makes a giant difference...so much so that the MLB has been fighting age and identity tampering for years. There are countless cases of kids taking on entirely new identities so that they can pass off as ~2 years younger in the eyes of evaluators. Obviously the baseball model cant simply be shifted over to football; but could this be a bigger growth indicator in football than most make it out to be?

Damontre Moore is extremely young for the class he is in. He will be just a month over 20.5 years old come draft day. He is a full 2 years younger than Werner, more than 2 years younger than Montgomery, just under 2 years younger than Mingo. 3.5 years younger than Carradine. These guys all compete at the same Combine; but there is quite a bit of variance in how old they are relative to one another. Think of it this way...Moore could have came back for his Senior season, and by next year's draft would still be younger than all of the players I mentioned above will be this year. He could sit on his ass for a full year after that, and only then would he be of comparable age to most of the top DE's in this draft.

The question here is how you fit his age into his overall scouting profile. IMO given his age and weak Combine, you almost have to look at him as a project player. However...the flip-side to that coin is that his age could mean that this kid has a lot left in the tank in terms of physical projection. What would his 40 time be in 2-3 years, or his bench press? How about his overall physical package? It wont be until 2-3 years from now that he will actually be the same age as the majority of his "competition" in this year's draft. How will his skills have evolved or devolved in that large time-frame?

raphael
03-05-2013, 10:51 PM
Yes, but where does Age relative to Performance fit into the picture? I actually considered starting a thread on this because this question goes relatively unanswered in the football scouting world, whereas for instance in baseball it pretty much shapes and defines player evaluation. Nothing paints this picture better than the International Free Agent market in baseball in which 16 year olds from Latin America are signed by MLB teams. A 16 year old showing certain tools/physical skills can be worth $1.5 million...however, that exact same player might be worth $10,000 or less if he is 18 years old instead of 16. Even 1-2 years makes a giant difference...so much so that the MLB has been fighting age and identity tampering for years. There are countless cases of kids taking on entirely new identities so that they can pass off as ~2 years younger in the eyes of evaluators. Obviously the baseball model cant simply be shifted over to football; but could this be a bigger growth indicator in football than most make it out to be?
Damontre Moore is extremely young for the class he is in. He will be just a month over 20.5 years old come draft day. He is a full 2 years younger than Werner, more than 2 years younger than Montgomery, just under 2 years younger than Mingo. 3.5 years younger than Carradine. These guys all compete at the same Combine; but there is quite a bit of variance in how old they are relative to one another. Think of it this way...Moore could have came back for his Senior season, and by next year's draft would still be younger than all of the players I mentioned above will be this year. He could sit on his ass for a full year after that, and only then would he be of comparable age to most of the top DE's in this draft.

The question here is how you fit his age into his overall scouting profile. IMO given his age and weak Combine, you almost have to look at him as a project player. However...the flip-side to that coin is that his age could mean that this kid has a lot left in the tank in terms of physical projection. What would his 40 time be in 2-3 years, or his bench press? How about his overall physical package? It wont be until 2-3 years from now that he will actually be the same age as the majority of his "competition" in this year's draft. How will his skills have evolved or devolved in that large time-frame?

:banana: :wave:
Been trying to get this point across for awhile. Moore has longer arms than guys who are 20-30 pounds heavier and four or five years older than himself. Obviously he isn't going to compare well in a strength test. But would he be a better prospect if he was 23 instead of 20, with 31" arms instead of 35" arms? I'm sure he'd probably do 25-30 reps if that were the case, without much problem.

His 40 was a mess because he pulled a muscle, probably. Not that he would break any records healthy, but he was top 5 in both his jumps, which shows the explosiveness is there. Damontre had better stats at his age than Von Miller did playing for the same team. Miller was rated as a second round pick after his junior season. They were playing lesser competition then as well.

He is in the top ten in both vertical and broad jumps for all DE tested at the Combine over the past three years. That is enough athleticism for me.

phlysac
03-05-2013, 11:27 PM
E.Brown was like 5'10 or something

6'2" 256 lbs.

TitanHope
03-05-2013, 11:27 PM
4 inches doesn't make the difference between 12 repetitions and 25-30 reps. And even if it did, it doesn't excuse how guys with similar arm lengths and longer were boosting 20+ times. Moore being the youngest of the group doesn't make him some runt of the litter. He's a grown ass man who had months to dedicate himself into getting his body into peak physical shape. And he got embarrassed.

raphael
03-05-2013, 11:42 PM
4 inches doesn't make the difference between 12 repetitions and 25-30 reps. And even if it did, it doesn't excuse how guys with similar arm lengths and longer were boosting 20+ times. Moore being the youngest of the group doesn't make him some runt of the litter. He's a grown ass man who had months to dedicate himself into getting his body into peak physical shape. And he got embarrassed.

Myeehh....he did poorly in two events, did excellant in the two others he participated in. Strength will improve with maturity. A lot. His college production, his effort, his intelligence, and his personality trump any off day at the track to me. Three years of work on the field > than two days at the Combine by a 100 times at least. But you pick your players how you see fit.
Then we won't be fighting over the same guy on draft day :biggrin:

pierce2walker
03-05-2013, 11:57 PM
Myeehh....he did poorly in two events, did excellant in the two others he participated in. Strength will improve with maturity. A lot. His college production, his effort, his intelligence, and his personality trump any off day at the track to me. Three years of work on the field > than two days at the Combine by a 100 times at least. But you pick your players how you see fit.
Then we won't be fighting over the same guy on draft day :biggrin:

You could say this about so many high production college guys that didn't make it in the pros. Stop acting like physical tools don't matter. They do. Those other things matter as well, but its about evaluating how that total package of a player will translate and produce against NFL players.

TitanHope
03-06-2013, 12:01 AM
Myeehh....he did poorly in two events, did excellant in the two others he participated in. Strength will improve with maturity. A lot. His college production, his effort, his intelligence, and his personality trump any off day at the track to me. Three years of work on the field > than two days at the Combine by a 100 times at least. But you pick your players how you see fit.
Then we won't be fighting over the same guy on draft day :biggrin:

I didn't like Moore before the combine.

raphael
03-06-2013, 12:17 AM
You could say this about so many high production college guys that didn't make it in the pros. Stop acting like physical tools don't matter. They do. Those other things matter as well, but its about evaluating how that total package of a player will translate and produce against NFL players.

Absolutely, but I think Moore's "physical tools" are just fine. He is 6-5, 250, with 35" arms, 10 1/2" hands. Room on his frame to add another 25 pounds easily if he wanted. Is among the top 10 DE in two of the four combine events he particpated in, of all players tested over the past three years. Also, you don't end up with 27 D1 sacks by the time you turn 20 years old without "physical tools". He didn't do it using ropes and wires.

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2013, 01:29 AM
I didn't like Moore before the combine.

I didn't either. I see a mediocre NFL pass rusher when I watch him. He's the sort of guy you can have on your roster, but if he's a backup he won't play much and if he's the starter you'll be constantly trying to replace him.

There's absolutely nothing less valuable in the scouting process than "accumulated college stats" and that's pretty much where all of the Moore love is coming from. I can name 8-9 pass rushers I'd draft before Moore.

brasho
03-06-2013, 05:21 AM
:banana: :wave:
Been trying to get this point across for awhile. Moore has longer arms than guys who are 20-30 pounds heavier and four or five years older than himself. Obviously he isn't going to compare well in a strength test. But would he be a better prospect if he was 23 instead of 20, with 31" arms instead of 35" arms? I'm sure he'd probably do 25-30 reps if that were the case, without much problem.

His 40 was a mess because he pulled a muscle, probably. Not that he would break any records healthy, but he was top 5 in both his jumps, which shows the explosiveness is there. Damontre had better stats at his age than Von Miller did playing for the same team. Miller was rated as a second round pick after his junior season. They were playing lesser competition then as well.

He is in the top ten in both vertical and broad jumps for all DE tested at the Combine over the past three years. That is enough athleticism for me.

If there is no validity to the theory that he pulled a hamstring in the 40, the lack of speed considering his weight is alarming. His VJ and BJ suggest he might have decent get off but his unofficial 10 yard time of 1.69 suggests otherwise.

To make excuses, however, for his poor showing on the BP due to his arm length is reaching. 12 reps for a 250 lb man is embarrassing and shows a severe lack of work ethic in the gym. He has NEARLY 35 inch arms... big deal. There were 4 other DEs with the same arm legnth or more and none did less than 9 more reps than Moore. Goodman, with his 36 3/8 inch arms, did 14 more reps than Moore. Johnthan Banks, he of the 6'2 185 lb frame and 34 inch arms, managed 10 reps. Moore should have claimed tendonitis in an elbow before going out there and show everybody he hasn't visited the gym much during his college career.

The 4.95 is shockingly bad, but not a death sentence. Terrell Suggs and James Harrison were both in that range (but perhaps a tad faster). The disturbing thing to me is that he hasn't worked his tail off to get better. And everybody knows that handing a huge pile of cash to somebody that isn't a hardworker doesn't usually work out well.

raphael
03-06-2013, 01:05 PM
There's absolutely nothing less valuable in the scouting process than "accumulated college stats" and that's pretty much where all of the Moore love is coming from.

Yeah, what a lousy way to judge a football player. How well they did on the field. Teams should just send their scouts to Africa, or Khazakstan, or Siberia, and bring back busloads of physical freaks. Give them a couple of weeks of instruction and they're good to go.:evil_laugh:

raphael
03-06-2013, 01:13 PM
. And everybody knows that handing a huge pile of cash to somebody that isn't a hardworker doesn't usually work out well.

Moore won the Second Effort award that the Texas coaches give out each week TWICE AS OFTEN as any other player on the team last year. What is the point of spending two months practicing takeoffs on a track. Or pushing 225 pounds off your chest for four or five hours a day so you can push 225 pounds off your chest better? The actual football benefits are pretty much ZILCH. In terms of future benefits on the field a player would be better off watching film the whole time. Or just relaxing and allowing his body to recuperate and heal. When the Combine events become weekly and held in front of 60 or 70 thousand people in stadiums with trophies and money on the line for performance, then you can start pimping the guys who spend all their time training for the events. Or you can just wait a few years for the Olympic track and field events.

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2013, 01:27 PM
Yeah, what a lousy way to judge a football player. How well they did on the field. Teams should just send their scouts to Africa, or Khazakstan, or Siberia, and bring back busloads of physical freaks. Give them a couple of weeks of instruction and they're good to go.:evil_laugh:

For me, the priorities go Film > Athleticism > Interviews >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accumulated Stats.

If you have 58 sacks in a season, that's great, but if you got 56 of them against true freshman LTs from Division II schools and you regularly get shut down by everybody else, then I really don't care about your NCAA record there.

I mean, Margus Hunt's performance in his bowl game is a lot less impressive when you note that he was lined up against a true freshman, right?

raphael
03-06-2013, 01:31 PM
For me, the priorities go Film > Athleticism > Interviews >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accumulated Stats.

If you have 58 sacks in a season, that's great, but if you got 56 of them against true freshman LTs from Division II schools and you regularly get shut down by everybody else, then I could care less about your NCAA record there.

I mean, Margus Hunt's performance in his bowl game is a lot less impressive when you note that he was lined up against a true freshman, right?

Moore played in the best conference in the nation, and had the best overall defensive stats in that conference. What's more he was a consistent producer for all three years he played college ball. Nothing fluky about what he did on the field. Then you bring up the ultimate "workout warrior" in this draft to try to discredit Moore?:confuse: Seems like you're just invalidating all your own points with that example.

Babylon
03-06-2013, 01:41 PM
I didn't like Moore before the combine.

When he was up against Lane Johnson in the bowl game he was non existant. I'm with you on not wanting him period.

raphael
03-06-2013, 02:00 PM
I've heard it said that NFL evaluators value the Combine workouts at no more than 5% of a player's grade in the draft. Most of the ones I've heard speak on the matter say that the medical testing and interview process is by far the most valuable aspect of the event in their eyes. It's more of a draftnik fascination than a scouting one, I think.

pierce2walker
03-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Moore played in the best conference in the nation, and had the best overall defensive stats in that conference. What's more he was a consistent producer for all three years he played college ball. Nothing fluky about what he did on the field. Then you bring up the ultimate "workout warrior" in this draft to try to discredit Moore?:confuse: Seems like you're just invalidating all your own points with that example.

You know who put up possible the greatest stats ever in that same, conference all while being praised as one of the hardest workers out there? Tim Tebow.

As cabbage said, film and athleticism are much more important than accumulated stats because its about projecting how a player's ability will translate to the NFL when going against NFL level talent and athleticism.

Moore doubters such as cabbage, TH, and myself watch Moore on film and see a player who lacks explosion off the line, doesn't have great speed around the edge, and doesn't show explosive power either. The combine results that you so easily dismiss are important because they confirm what we have observed in the film and thus confirm our doubts as to whether or not Moore can produce when playing against NFL O-Lineman.

This graphic offers a glimpse at to why we have concerns with Moore's tape:
http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/time2.gif

You'll notice that 44.4% of Moore's sacks come as coverage sacks, which is something you don't see when you purely look at the stats. His high average sack time and 11.11% of his sacks coming as "speed sacks" are concerning when you consider that Moore is only 250 and doesn't show immense power either (see film and bench). When I watch Moore on film, I see a guy who gets a lot of his sacks by being "slippery", which I have my doubts about translating against NFL level OTs.

I think this sums up my and the majority argument against Moore so you can kind of take it or leave it at that.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2013, 02:23 PM
If Moore decided to blow off the combine just because it wasn't an actual football game or directly related to playing an actual game, he's not very smart.

It's not like Damontre enter the combine as a lock top 10 pick.
If he'd shown up at the combine and ran a 4.6 and threw up 25+ reps in the BP, he might be in the discussion for the 1st overall pick.

The combine for many teams is a way to gauge a player's work ethic.

Prospects who don't have the motivation to get into shape for the combine are usually the same players who aren't going to put in the extra work that it requires to be an outstanding professional football player.

Moore at this point looks either immature for not preparing for the combine or a little bit lazy.

Pass rusher is one of the most difficult skillsets to scout and predict how a player will transition once he's in the NFL.

GUys who lack the drive, motivation or work ethic to commit themselves to improving their games in the pros are usually those pass rushers who bust.

Moore to me is a wildcard. I like his film to an extent, but he never really flashed elite athleticism the few times I saw him.

IMO he's not in the class of Dion Jordan or Ziggy Ensah in terms of raw athleticism.
I hope Demontre Moore doesn't take the same approach to his pro day, if he chooses to perform in it at all.

raphael
03-06-2013, 02:29 PM
Moore is what he is. No one thought he would test amazingly well at the Combine. He gets his production how he gets it, which is going to be a bit different from anyone else. I'm not arguing those points. The point is that he gets it, gets it pretty consisently against a high level of competition, and gets it at an exceptionally young age and early stage of his development. Most serious draft observers knew long before the Combine that players like Ansah and Hunt would test very well. There were no surprises. But that doesn't make their on field performance any better. Damontre will have had about five years of pro coaching and pro off field workout programs when he is the age they are now. He isn't going to be a big sack total guy, probably, but that is a pretty small part of what goes on in the course of the game or the season on the field. He does all the little things well. He can play a lot of snaps. He is a high character guy who is well liked by his teammates.
He is versatile and humble. Comparing him to Tebow is no put down at all in my eyes. Tebow took the Broncos farther than Manning did, with far less to work with. He's a terrific football player and person. Has a better career record than Sam Bradford from that draft. About the same passer rating. Taken 25 spots later in the draft and earns about 1/10 the money Bradford does.

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2013, 02:35 PM
When I watch Moore on film, I see a guy who gets a lot of his sacks by being "slippery", which I have my doubts about translating against NFL level OTs.

One thing that gets underrepresented when evaluating college pass rushers is that NFL OTs hold much more often (and much more effectively) than do college OTs. Moore, like every NFL pass rusher, will get held on darn-near every play in the NFL and it will rarely get called (you basically have to try to take a guy's head off to get a holding call some of the time.) "Slippery" is perhaps the hardest thing for a pass rusher to consistently win with in the pros. Even technique guys struggle when transitioning for this reason.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2013, 02:37 PM
I still like Damontre as a 34 OLB, but he scares me as a 43 DE.

BTW no one thought he'd run a 4.9 at the combine or put up so few reps on the BP.

For a 6'5, 250# LB/DE to put up less than 15 reps screams that a player didn't train at all for this combine test once the season was over.

I like Tebow too, but you can't compare him to Bradford. Tebow can't read defenses and his accuracy is beyond awful. He's a gamer though, but his QB skills are not NFL caliber.

pierce2walker
03-06-2013, 02:38 PM
Moore is what he is. No one thought he would test amazingly well at the Combine. He gets his production how he gets it, which is going to be a bit different from anyone else. I'm not arguing those points. The point is that he gets it, gets it pretty consisently against a high level of competition, and gets it at an exceptionally young age and early stage of his development. Most serious draft observers knew long before the Combine that players like Ansah and Hunt would test very well. There were no surprises. But that doesn't make their on field performance any better. Damontre will have had about five years of pro coaching and pro off field workout programs when he is the age they are now. He isn't going to be a big sack total guy, probably, but that is a pretty small part of what goes on in the course of the game or the season on the field. He does all the little things well. He can play a lot of snaps. He is a high character guy who is well liked by his teammates.
He is versatile and humble. Comparing him to Tebow is no put down at all in my eyes. Tebow took the Broncos farther than Manning did, with far less to work with. He's a terrific football player and person. Has a better career record than Sam Bradford from that draft. About the same passer rating. Taken 25 spots later in the draft and earns about 1/10 the money Bradford does.
http://thegboatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/8p10n.gif

Tebow very well may be out of NFL soon. For a reason. That reason is that he sucks.

mightytitan9
03-06-2013, 02:38 PM
This is my post on Moore taken from another thread just a little while ago

Jared Allen only put up 13 reps with a 1.68 10yd split. Marcus Spears put up 15 @ over 300 pounds. All while Vernon Gholston went for what 37 reps?

Terrell Suggs ran a 4.84 40.

Workout numbers don't really alarm me, if you say you don't like his film thats fine i can respect that. But workout numbers are overrated.

Moore was never believed to be a "speedster" like Kearse, and I think people who don't watch him expected him to be. He ran a 4.72 on campus @ Texas A&M. I think people (who haven't watched him enough) have always overestimated him as an athlete.

As for your link, I've been saying it for a while that he was asked to spy or read the QB a lot of his sacks did come from spying/reading, then releasing to sack the QB. That's not new information.

I'd like to see how many QB pressures he had, because there's tons of times he pressured with no sack.

He can play (both) sides of the line, he can run the arch or make a move inside - great at running stunts.

Watch his film and it's not a guy that runs a 4.9 he runs down WRs and RBs too often for that, I don't care what his numbers are. He was 8-10 yards behind a WR at one point and ran him down and the WR was at full speed running straight. I don't know many WRs that run 5+ seconds 40. If he's there in the 2nd we'd be stupid not to take him (assuming we didn't already take a DE or Carradine is available)

Put on film of him against LSU or OU when he plays primarily all 43 DE and he's a different guy than he is at 3-4 OLB. Pay attention to what offenses he's playing, if he's playing against a mobile QB he's asked to contain, spy and read. Against a pro-style pocket passer, he's usually just asked to go get the QB.

Just my 55 cents

Anyone that saw Moore run saw that he likely hadn't worked on his get off. He was slow at the start and ran an unofficial 4.87 the first time. The 2nd time he clearly pulled up prior to finishing as he pulled a hammy.

Could he have came better prepared to the combine? Yes, I believe he could have. Does that effect what I see on tape? No, it does not.

raphael
03-06-2013, 02:40 PM
One thing that gets underrepresented when evaluating college pass rushers is that NFL OTs hold much more often (and much more effectively) than do college OTs. Moore, like every NFL pass rusher, will get held on darn-near every play in the NFL and it will rarely get called (you basically have to try to take a guy's head off to get a holding call some of the time.) "Slippery" is perhaps the hardest thing for a pass rusher to consistently win with in the pros. Even technique guys struggle when transitioning for this reason.

I don't think Moore will be drafted for his pass rushing skills. Not that they are bad, I think he comes out with the most career sacks of anyone in this draft, but for his all round defensive skills. So, it's a bit pointless to just focus on that aspect and judge him from there. He can play on the line, play standing up outside, play interior linebacker. Most likely he will shift around a lot, since defensive schemes are becoming more complex in response to offensive schemes becoming more complex. If you're a one dimensional player it's very easy for the offense to negate you.

Menardo75
03-06-2013, 05:30 PM
I watched three games of this guy and I saw a guy that made very few plays when the play was coming to him and got most of his tackles running things down from the backside. He also does not have an array of pass rush moves or counter moves. I think taking this guy before the second round would be a big mistake. He is very raw and needs a lot of coaching.

raphael
03-06-2013, 06:16 PM
I watched three games of this guy and I saw a guy that made very few plays when the play was coming to him and got most of his tackles running things down from the backside. He also does not have an array of pass rush moves or counter moves. I think taking this guy before the second round would be a big mistake. He is very raw and needs a lot of coaching.

Well if he got 85 tackles running players down from the backside, his foot speed can't be all that bad. SEC running backs and quarterbacks aren't exactly slugs when they're carrying the football.

raphael
03-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Moore finished top 5 in two of the four events he participated in at the Combine. Ziggy Ansah finished top 5 in one of six events he participated in. How does one guy come off as an athletic schlub and the other as a physical phenom?

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Moore finished top 5 in two of the four events he participated in at the Combine. Ziggy Ansah finished top 5 in one of six events he participated in. How does one guy come off as an athletic schlub and the other as a physical phenom?

Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL, when Moore ran in the 4.9's, it sent huge red flags across the GM planet.
Now, he did come up lame in his second try at the combine and maybe he can make a dramatic improvement at his Pro Day, but he had better run in at least the 4.7's if he wants to remain a 1st rounder.

As for Ansah, he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl, against the best seniors in the nation, and completely dominated them. Personally, I think Ansah is getting way overhyped but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't touch him before the 20th pick but that's just me.

mightytitan9
03-06-2013, 06:53 PM
Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL, when Moore ran in the 4.9's, it sent huge red flags across the GM planet.
Now, he did come up lame in his second try at the combine and maybe he can make a dramatic improvement at his Pro Day, but he had better run in at least the 4.7's if he wants to remain a 1st rounder.

As for Ansah, he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl, against the best seniors in the nation, and completely dominated them. Personally, I think Ansah is getting way overhyped but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't touch him before the 20th pick but that's just me.

Terrell Suggs 4.84, going once, going twice. SOLD!!

raphael
03-06-2013, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=Iamcanadian;3293631]Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL...QUOTE]

Well, what's the gripe. Damontre ran "no less than the 4.7s". Matter of fact he ran way more than the 4.7s.:wave:

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 07:05 PM
Terrell Suggs 4.84, going once, going twice. SOLD!!

Suggs did run a 4.84 at his Combine but was timed at Arizona St. in 4.65. Try again.

nepg
03-06-2013, 07:08 PM
Suggs did run a 4.84 at his Combine but was timed at Arizona St. in 4.65. Try again.
Who's to say Moore (or Werner/Montgomery) won't improve their 40s dramatically at their Pro Days?

raphael
03-06-2013, 07:11 PM
Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 07:14 PM
Who's to say Moore (or Werner/Montgomery) won't improve their 40s dramatically at their Pro Days?

I already said this in my first post, he definitely came up limping when he tried his 2nd 40 at the combine and if it's healed, he probably can run faster but his first 40 in the 4.9's is pretty slow for a NFL DE who will be drafted because they want a pass rusher.
I really believe he will run a decent 40 at his pro day but if he doesn't I doubt he sees round 1.

raphael
03-06-2013, 07:16 PM
Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 07:18 PM
Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.

12 lifts obviously isn't very impressive but I think when you add in his 40 time, it just sent shivers up GM's backs about him. He is going to need a fast Pro Day to recover some of his shine.
Mingo and Jordan had sensational 40's and we will have to wait on Jones who ranking is up in the air right now mostly because of injury concerns.

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 07:21 PM
Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.

He isn't going to be an ILB with 12 lifts but a 3-4 OLB is a strong possibility but he'll have to run a heck of a lot faster if he wants to start in the NFL. 4.9's is what you want from a DT not a LBer or a DE.

raphael
03-06-2013, 07:35 PM
He isn't going to be an ILB with 12 lifts but a 3-4 OLB is a strong possibility but he'll have to run a heck of a lot faster if he wants to start in the NFL. 4.9's is what you want from a DT not a LBer or a DE.

Well according to someone here who watched his tape he got most of his sacks and tackles running the play down from behind. Maybe he hypnotized his opponents so they stopped and waited for him to catch up.

Iamcanadian
03-06-2013, 07:49 PM
Well according to someone here who watched his tape he got most of his sacks and tackles running the play down from behind. Maybe he hypnotized his opponents so they stopped and waited for him to catch up.

Or just maybe, he was playing against college players and not pros. I'm not saying he won't improve his 40 time, all I'm saying is that he had better do it if he wants to remain a 1st rounder. That's a reason why they hold Pro Days. I said he was limping in his 2nd 40 at the combine, maybe the pulled muscle slowed him down even in his 1st run. All I'm saying is he needs a far better 40 at his Pro Day. His 4.9--- certainly shocked me.

bornnraisedwhodat
03-07-2013, 10:46 AM
I just dont see why people are caught up on his 40 time. If you liked what you saw from him during the year, the combine shouldnt change that.

I personally never saw him as a top 10 pick but def a top 25 player. Not as explosive as Werner but hardworking and crafty on the field. Seems like the type of guy the Steelers would pick up and he'd go to 5 pro bowls..

AcheTen (Thumper)
03-07-2013, 10:48 AM
Besides, Terrell Suggs ran a slow-as-molasses 40 in his day as well. Having a great 40 isn't a prerequisite to being a great pass rusher, especially if you do alot of work with your strength/leverage.

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Moore won the Second Effort award that the Texas coaches give out each week TWICE AS OFTEN as any other player on the team last year. What is the point of spending two months practicing takeoffs on a track. Or pushing 225 pounds off your chest for four or five hours a day so you can push 225 pounds off your chest better? The actual football benefits are pretty much ZILCH. In terms of future benefits on the field a player would be better off watching film the whole time. Or just relaxing and allowing his body to recuperate and heal. When the Combine events become weekly and held in front of 60 or 70 thousand people in stadiums with trophies and money on the line for performance, then you can start pimping the guys who spend all their time training for the events. Or you can just wait a few years for the Olympic track and field events.

I think youre missing the point. YOU CAN'T significantly improve your reps of 225 in a few months... it takes years. And from the evidence, Moore has been a stranger in the weightroom. The benefits of being strong in the chest and triceps are enormous, especially for players that block or take on blocks on a constant basis. We can all point to videotape and say one guy CAN play and the other guy CAN'T but when it is all said and done it comes down to physical ability and if a guy dominates in college against guys that will be doing something other than playing football for a living, that tells very little about how well he will do against a guy that plays football as his job... and prepares for his job like there is no tomorrow (which means dedication in the gym, watching film, in practice, etc). Moore's absolute lack of ability to push the bar up more than 12X is extremely alarming. He does not work hard, he has not worked hard, and anybody that says anything the opposite has never been in or around a weightroom or football field.

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:05 PM
I've heard it said that NFL evaluators value the Combine workouts at no more than 5% of a player's grade in the draft. Most of the ones I've heard speak on the matter say that the medical testing and interview process is by far the most valuable aspect of the event in their eyes. It's more of a draftnik fascination than a scouting one, I think.

Do you know why? Because only about 5% of the time guys run a lot better or worse than they are supposed to.

Everybody knew what Ansah and Hunt and Mingo and others were going to run. Everybody knew that Moore wasn't going to break 4.70... but barely breaking 5.0 is the 5% you're talking about here.

Anybody else remember the name Jason Chorak? Great college stats, horrible physical testing... didn't make it in the NFL.

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:08 PM
The combine for many teams is a way to gauge a player's work ethic.



Takes the prize!

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:14 PM
For a 6'5, 250# LB/DE to put up less than 15 reps screams that a player didn't train at all for this combine test once the season was over.

.

Now you're giving him too much credit. Two months of solid work on the bench MIGHT increase reps by 2-5. Signficant gains on the bench take place over years, not months. What Moore has demonstrated is that he has had an allergy to the gym for years, not months. It's not uncommon for a player that didn't have the greatest work ethic in college to completely blow it off in the NFL... which means he won't be getting better physically but ALSO means when he gets hurt and has to do rehab, he won't do it.

To me, Moore is a guy I wouldn't touch until round 2... if I were a 3-4 team. If I were a 4-3 team he would be a guy I wouldn't touch until round 4. Small slow DEs with poor work ethics just don't excite me.

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:22 PM
This is my post on Moore taken from another thread just a little while ago

Anyone that saw Moore run saw that he likely hadn't worked on his get off. He was slow at the start and ran an unofficial 4.87 the first time. The 2nd time he clearly pulled up prior to finishing as he pulled a hammy.

Could he have came better prepared to the combine? Yes, I believe he could have. Does that effect what I see on tape? No, it does not.

And what you discovered with Allen and Suggs are exceptions, not rules. It is well documented that Allen and Suggs didn't perform well... still, Suggs has/had far more strength than Moore, Allen was more explosive with a way better frame (6'6 265 and also ran 4.72 official). It is also true that Suggs was faster than Moore.

While both players (Suggs and Allen) were either weak or slow... neither was the dreadful combination of both.

brasho
03-07-2013, 12:25 PM
Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.

And if Moore was smart he would've dodged it too claiming tendonitis. Instead his stupidity and lack of work ethic were out there for all to see. Bad move on his part.

Babylon
03-07-2013, 12:55 PM
And if Moore was smart he would've dodged it too claiming tendonitis. Instead his stupidity and lack of work ethic were out there for all to see. Bad move on his part.

So you substitute lack of work ethic with bull####### people. Scouts can see through that.

raphael
03-07-2013, 02:12 PM
So you substitute lack of work ethic with bull####### people. Scouts can see through that.

Basically it seems they're panning Moore because he can't be bothered to try to fool evaluators into taking him higher in the draft than he might deserve to go. They also ignore the fact that he was top five in two of the four events he did, which was one more top five performance than Ansah managed. Two more than Jarvis Jones, and most of the other DE participants.

There are tens of thousands of college athletes who are gym rats. There is only one college athlete who was the best defensive player in the SEC last season.

FUNBUNCHER
03-07-2013, 04:42 PM
Basically it seems they're panning Moore because he can't be bothered to try to fool evaluators into taking him higher in the draft than he might deserve to go. They also ignore the fact that he was top five in two of the four events he did, which was one more top five performance than Ansah managed. Two more than Jarvis Jones, and most of the other DE participants.

There are tens of thousands of college athletes who are gym rats. There is only one college athlete who was the best defensive player in the SEC last season.

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/files/2012/11/JarvisAndres.jpg:wave:

SickwithIt1010
03-07-2013, 04:49 PM
Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.

Bahahaha what?

Robcards
03-07-2013, 04:51 PM
His poor combine just made it so the Jets can get him at 9. I like it. Go Damonster!

raphael
03-07-2013, 06:00 PM
http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/files/2012/11/JarvisAndres.jpg:wave:

Moore won the Raphael Award, though.

PossibleCabbage
03-08-2013, 10:58 AM
So at his pro day today, Moore improved his bench from a worrying 12 reps to a "low-side-of-acceptable" 19 reps, but he decided to stand on his 40 yard dash at the combine (4.95.) That second decision is, to put it charitably, a poor choice on his part.

If I'm a GM, I'm reading into this "he ran his best 40 ever at the combine and doesn't want to put his real time on tape." Who's giving him advice?

raphael
03-08-2013, 11:01 AM
So at his pro day today, Moore improved his bench from a worrying 12 reps to a "low-side-of-acceptable" 19 reps, but he decided to stand on his 40 yard dash at the combine (4.95.) That second decision is, to put it charitably, a poor choice on his part.

If I'm a GM, I'm reading into this "he ran his best 40 ever at the combine and doesn't want to put his real time on tape." Who's giving him advice?

Maybe his hammy is still bothering him. Maybe he just hates running 40s. Doesn't change what he accomplished on the field, or make him a different player than he was a month ago.

PossibleCabbage
03-08-2013, 11:06 AM
Maybe his hammy is still bothering him. Maybe he just hates running 40s. Doesn't change what he accomplished on the field, or make him a different player than he was a month ago.

If his hamstring is bothering him, why did he then run the short shuttle?

If he hates running 40s, then too bad he's applying for a job that potentially pays millions of dollars, suck it up.

You seem to be way more enamored with his tape than I am. I watched him, and I'm just not that impressed. Fourth tier guy on my board.

raphael
03-08-2013, 12:18 PM
Moore's shuttle and 3 cone times were both in top 5 of the Combine. So, of 6 events, he finished top 5 in four of them. Ansah finished top five in one. No other DE finished top 5 in more than four of the six. His 19 lifts were the same as Pierre-Paul, who was 20 pounds heavier with the same height and arm length. Damontre beat every other of Pierre-Paul's Combine number except the 40. Wasn't JPP supposed to be a workout warrior? Isn't Ansah supposed to be a workout warrior.

Get your heads out of your butts over this. For everyone flapping about "not seeing it on tape", you know what? No one puts any value at all on your "eye for talent". None, zero, zilch. So save your breath.

brasho
03-08-2013, 01:19 PM
So at his pro day today, Moore improved his bench from a worrying 12 reps to a "low-side-of-acceptable" 19 reps, but he decided to stand on his 40 yard dash at the combine (4.95.) That second decision is, to put it charitably, a poor choice on his part.

If I'm a GM, I'm reading into this "he ran his best 40 ever at the combine and doesn't want to put his real time on tape." Who's giving him advice?

Hey, 19 is pretty patheic for a 250 lb guy from a major program, but at least it shows he has done SOME work in the weightroom. 19 sucks for the most part, but 12 is totally unacceptable.

The 40 business... yikes. Not sure I want to touch that. 4.95 is horrid for his position and weight. Is there any proof that he has/had an injury?

bigbuc
03-08-2013, 01:26 PM
Moore's shuttle and 3 cone times were both in top 5 of the Combine. So, of 6 events, he finished top 5 in four of them. Ansah finished top five in one. No other DE finished top 5 in more than four of the six. His 19 lifts were the same as Pierre-Paul, who was 20 pounds heavier with the same height and arm length. Damontre beat every other of Pierre-Paul's Combine number except the 40. Wasn't JPP supposed to be a workout warrior? Isn't Ansah supposed to be a workout warrior.

Get your heads out of your butts over this. For everyone flapping about "not seeing it on tape", you know what? No one puts any value at all on your "eye for talent". None, zero, zilch. So save your breath.

I with this guy. Moore has shown in two different conferences that he can be a top pass rusher. He's going to fall right into a team like Pitt, where he'll then put up 11 sacks as a rookie.

BallerT1215
03-08-2013, 01:27 PM
Still think he is a good player.

bornnraisedwhodat
03-08-2013, 01:27 PM
Watch he comes into the league and is straight beast mode. The guy can play football.

raphael
03-08-2013, 02:22 PM
DM was up to 260 at his pro day, so I guess the interviewers told him he will play DE more than OLB. Showed good agility for a 6-5, 260 pounder. May still run his 40 at a later date according to Tony Pauline.

killxswitch
03-08-2013, 02:31 PM
19 is not weak, it's perfectly acceptable. I posted in another thread that I figured he is a young guy that went straight from playing a full college season to prepping for the combine and just overworked himself.

Not running the 40 again is puzzling. He's got to be faster than what he showed that the Combine. But if so, why not run? Just weird.

I still strongly doubt he falls past the first 25ish picks. Based on what I've seen though he's not that great coming out of a 3 point stance so I still expect 3-4 teams to have interest in him as a stand-up rusher.

TitanHope
03-08-2013, 03:13 PM
Moore won the Raphael Award, though.

That's extremely apparent.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2013, 03:19 PM
Hey, 19 is pretty patheic for a 250 lb guy from a major program, but at least it shows he has done SOME work in the weightroom. 19 sucks for the most part, but 12 is totally unacceptable.

The 40 business... yikes. Not sure I want to touch that. 4.95 is horrid for his position and weight. Is there any proof that he has/had an injury?

I really don't know what to malke of him but he's not likely to go top 20 any longer, but I did observe at the Combine that he pulled up lame in his second 40.

raphael
03-08-2013, 05:42 PM
He was running in the 4.7 range in training. I think most NFL scouts give him that. He and Joeckel should go 1-2 in this draft. In no particular order. Geno Smith is right there too.

Robcards
03-08-2013, 05:53 PM
According to mr. Mayock, Moore tweaked his hamstring during on-field drills and that's why he didn't run the 40

BallerT1215
03-08-2013, 05:55 PM
Seems to have a tender hammy now a days.

Witten4HOF
03-08-2013, 06:03 PM
Seems to have a tender hammy now a days.

Miles Austin syndrome

SunTzu_22
03-08-2013, 06:06 PM
Still think he is a good player.

Short and sweet, I completely agree with this. Would like to see what a coach like Gus Bradley in Jacksonville could do with him.

raphael
03-08-2013, 06:42 PM
It seemed doubtful that his hamstring would be healed. The Combine was only 10 days ago. Props to DM for toughing it out in the tests he did. His agility times pretty impressive for a guy with a tender hamstring.

killxswitch
03-08-2013, 07:12 PM
While I think more of Moore than some of you, I'm not real impressed with his first step. Seemed like one of the last to react to the snap. I think that is partially youth (older players showed in tests that their reaction time is significantly faster) and it may also just be who he is as a player. I don't think him playing standing up will be a problem. He's going to benefit a lot from solid coaching wherever he goes. I wonder if he wouldn't have benefitted from staying in school another year. I understand why he didn't though.

raphael
03-08-2013, 10:42 PM
thats like being the principal of a homeschool.

No, it's like being Minister Of Education of a homeschool.

raphael
03-08-2013, 10:45 PM
Short and sweet, I completely agree with this. Would like to see what a coach like Gus Bradley in Jacksonville could do with him.

Gus preaches speed though. That might rule out Moore in Jax. But he is such a great character, maybe he and Gus connect at some other level.

RCAChainGang
03-08-2013, 11:06 PM
While I think more of Moore than some of you, I'm not real impressed with his first step. Seemed like one of the last to react to the snap. I think that is partially youth (older players showed in tests that their reaction time is significantly faster) and it may also just be who he is as a player. I don't think him playing standing up will be a problem. He's going to benefit a lot from solid coaching wherever he goes. I wonder if he wouldn't have benefitted from staying in school another year. I understand why he didn't though.

The bold is what I talked about earlier this year in this thread. He doesn't seem to explode off the edge with confidence. Seems a little sluggish to start. Like you, I think that can be fixed easily. However, he doesn't have the acceleration of players like Dion Jordan. He does have good hands and bend around OTs. Regardless of all the knocks on him, I would love to see him get drafted by the Colts in the 1st.

energizerbunny
03-08-2013, 11:39 PM
my biggest knock on Moore is that I'am not sure if he wants to be an nfl player, or just get paid like one. Some of his recent actions need to be questioned.

nobodyinparticular
03-09-2013, 12:11 AM
He was running in the 4.7 range in training. I think most NFL scouts give him that. He and Joeckel should go 1-2 in this draft. In no particular order. Geno Smith is right there too.

FutureScout, is that you?

bigbuc
03-09-2013, 12:48 AM
my biggest knock on Moore is that I'am not sure if he wants to be an nfl player, or just get paid like one. Some of his recent actions need to be questioned.

The guy went through drills today with a pulled hammy. A player who's shown two different years, two different positions in two different conferences that he can live in the backfield knows how to play football.

This kid is a top 15 pick

DBNYDP
03-09-2013, 07:28 AM
Dude made plays in college and has a really good 3 cone time. Maybe not elite or as good as he was hyped up to be, but someone's going to get a really good pass rusher in the late first.

TitanHope
03-09-2013, 09:45 PM
I've had Moore as a 3-4 OLB for a while. He may be able to play end, and him bulking up to 260 was an effort to not be taken off 4-3 teams' big boards, but I think he'll be better standing up based on his pass-rushing skills. He likes to dodge OL's rather than take them head on, and uses his elusiveness to get to the QB. He'll be able to stunt easier too.

His poor 40 time makes me worry about him being able to cover TE's, and his below average strength makes me worry about his ability to set the edge. Him doing well in the jumps shows he has explosive ability, and long arms should help him shed blocks. Those are two traits I really value when analyzing the combine, so he does have some things going for him. Thankfully he didn't bomb the shuttle and cone drills, or OLB could be a long shot then too.

I figure Moore is a late 1st Round 3-4 OLB prospect, and I have him 5th among DE's and tied with Mingo for 3rd among rush-backers.

Also, why did Brent say Moore could've been suspended this year? He have character concerns or grade trouble?

PossibleCabbage
03-09-2013, 10:40 PM
I just can't grade out Moore as a good 3-4 OLB. He's not fast, and he's not strong, and he's not particularly disciplined. I just can't see a first round pick there.

PACKmanN
03-10-2013, 12:04 AM
Moore's game isn't really being able to out muscle you. I don't place an importance to his bench numbers. His speed is what I worry the most. Hell, the NFL doesn't even place an importance on being physical anymore(a Michael Strahan type). It's all about quickness

raphael
03-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Moore's game isn't really being able to out muscle you. I don't place an importance to his bench numbers. His speed is what I worry the most. Hell, the NFL doesn't even place an importance on being physical anymore(a Michael Strahan type). It's all about quickness

Damontre said at his pro day he isn't a weight room type of guy. I'm sure as a pro he'll spend more time there. In terms of natural strength and quickness, he is top drawer for his size. You can take a good football player and make him stronger and faster much more easily than you can take a strong fast guy and make him a good football player.