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View Full Version : Why are so many people down on Sam Bradford?


stlouisfan37
05-15-2012, 03:05 PM
So I have come to realize in the last few months that there are a lot of people who are down on Sam Bradford, don't think he will become great, however you want to say it. Before the draft several people made suggestions that the Rams should have traded him and taken Griffin. Now that the draft is over, some people are suggesting that the Rams will end up with a top 5 pick and should then scrap the Sam Bradford experiment altogether and draft a new franchise QB.

I am totally aware of the fact that I am a Rams fan and, therefore, probably think more of him than maybe I should. That being said, I think I am a pretty objective fan for the most part. I have no problem admitting that my team has been the worst team in the NFL for some time now.

I think Sam showed a lot of poise and promise his rookie year. Last year I think it was a huge mistake to bring in a new OC with a completely different system, and I agree with those that say it damaged his psyche some. Now, going into his 3rd year with a 3rd OC, people are starting to compare him to David Carr. I am not ready to go that far yet. I think the real difference is that the new regime in St. Louis has finally brought stability to the team, something that was deeply lacking previously. With all that being said, I do think now is the time for him to have some level of success to rebuild whatever confidence has been lost over the last couple of years.

So I would like to know what it is about Sam Bradford that you do or don't like. Skillset? Mindset? The fact that he is from Oklahoma? Please be honest. I'm trying to keep my personal bias in check here.

killxswitch
05-15-2012, 03:09 PM
Combo of the offense he came from and his shoulder problems. I thought he was the #2 QB from that class, so I'm wrong so far. But I still don't think he will ever be more than a middle-tier starting QB.

Lil Quip
05-15-2012, 03:13 PM
I was duly impressed with his rookie season. However, he had major injury concerns in college, which seemed to a degree to follow him into the pros.

He was also a spread guy, and I think he is a guy that can't be the most talented guy on offense to have a top flight offense.

Lastly, something that he has absolutely no control over, is that I believe he was the last draft class that had the mind boggling rookie contracts. He just costs a ton compared to Griffin Luck and Newton.

If he can stay healthy I think he can be a good starter, but not great. I think he is plenty talented enough to lead that offense if they stock it with their multitude of picks.

wicket
05-15-2012, 03:21 PM
Yards per Attempt, you cant throw for 6 yrds/attempt and have a 54% completion percentage. Bradford just flat out makes to little happen, he doesnt make many mistakes but Bradford is not someone you sorry about on 3rd and 9 and mainly Brees and Rodgers have shown how as a dominant QB that is where you can make a team great, almost by yourself.

vidae
05-15-2012, 03:28 PM
I'm not down on him at all. He was in a Josh McDaniels offense with almost no talent around him. Roger Saffold decided to suck and he had no receivers. The only weapon he had was Steven Jackson, and they can't do it by themselves.

Give him weapons, fix up that offensive line, and I think he can be very good, great even.

fenikz
05-15-2012, 03:30 PM
His lack of any actual arm strength will always limit him, he simply can not throw a 15+ yard pass with accuracy or zip

And the Rams have used multiple picks on receivers even trading for Brandon Lloyd

Bixby (Thumper)
05-15-2012, 03:41 PM
- I never liked him to begin with.
- He is fragile and injury prone.
- He is not in a good situation and the weapons around him are bad. His offensive line is bad.
- He's learning his third offense in three years.
- He's got a noodle arm and a check down mentality. Doesn't threaten defenses vertically.
- His biggest strengths coming out of Oklahoma were his intelligence and his accuracy. The scheme at Oklahoma gave him very defined reads, lots of space, didn't consistently make NFL caliber reads and throws, hasn't been able to run a pro-style offense yet. And he's proven to not be very accurate, especially on intermediate and deep throws.

georgiafan
05-15-2012, 03:45 PM
Injury concerns
Arm Strength
Low yards per attempt
Lack of talent around him

Roddoliver
05-15-2012, 04:22 PM
53.5% of completed passes. 6.1 YPA. 6 touchdown passes in 10 starts. That's downright scary for a 1st overall pick. I thought a franchise QB could make other players look better.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-15-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't mind him. I actually feel bad for him. He stuck on a garbage team who needs to get their collective heads of their butts. 3 new systems in 3 years is miserable! That's not how you develop a franchise QB. Get some talent for the guy!

I can't stand teams that get a franchise QB and do this. We saw that with the Texans and David Carr, and Alex Smith and the 9ers. What was it? 6 or 7 new OCs and that many years? Good god, that's pathetic! I am glad that they went all out and surrounded himself with tons of talent.

The Rams need to do this for Bradford, and then we can see how he does. Let him actually develop in 1 system for once.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
05-15-2012, 06:43 PM
He has ranked bottom 3 in YPA. Simply cannot go down field and when he does his deep ball is ugly.

FUNBUNCHER
05-15-2012, 08:42 PM
I'm not down on him. I still think he's going to get it done in a big way in the NFL. It's just that people on this board are in 'immediate gratification' mode with most prospects and if someone doesn't look like a pro bowler by the end of his second year, they're already labeling him a bust.

Even when Bradford came back last season, he wasn't healthy.

Like when people say Bradford has a noodle arm. Where does that come from?? He didn't have a noodle arm as a rookie. FWIW, he's the exact same height and weight as Andrew Luck, with similar arm strength but less athleticism. Bradford has maybe the worst offensive skill talent surrounding him in St. Louis with no real #1 WR.

Also, it's true Bradford is a product of OU's spread, but some player's outperform the expectations of a particular scheme. It surely wasn't the WRs on those teams that made Bradford look stellar.
Bradford was a guy in college who nearly always made the right read, always put the ball where his guy could make a play and intuitively knew how to attack a defense downfield.

Some are down on Bradford IMO because of his less than elite arm, but if he can stay healthy all season IMO Sam is going to exceed the numbers he put up as a rookie.

In five years I expect Bradford to be a top 10 QB in the NFL.

VernonLawson89
05-15-2012, 08:53 PM
Because he's a douche

fenikz
05-15-2012, 09:01 PM
Like when people say Bradford has a noodle arm. Where does that come from?? He didn't have a noodle arm as a rookie.

His average completion was actually worse as a rookie and everyone knew he had a weak arm many even rating Jimmy Clausen ahead of him because of it. The Panthers were smart enough to move forward with a new QB when given the opportunity, the Rams don't seem to be willing to do the same because of one 7-9 season

nepg
05-15-2012, 09:05 PM
Lots of injuries along the OL and he lost his safety blankets in Amendola and Fells. But he absolutely made zero progress. He wasn't ready for an advanced offense that gave him a ton of responsibility.

To be fair to Bradford, he didn't have an off-season to learn a new offense and the Rams decided to not let McD hire his own offensive staff. So none of the coaches knew the system either and the whole thing was bound to fail.

I think the lack of weapons the Rams had is over-focused, though. They didn't have very proven guys, but they had a good mix of guys that could make plays.

WCH
05-15-2012, 09:06 PM
David Carr failed because he couldn't make pre-snap reads. He couldn't do it in college, and he couldn't do it in the NFL. He just couldn't. People should stop trotting him out every time they want to talk about quarterback development gone wrong.

Flyboy
05-15-2012, 09:13 PM
- I never liked him to begin with.
- He is fragile and injury prone.
- He is not in a good situation and the weapons around him are bad. His offensive line is bad.
- He's learning his third offense in three years.
- He's got a noodle arm and a check down mentality. Doesn't threaten defenses vertically.
- His biggest strengths coming out of Oklahoma were his intelligence and his accuracy. The scheme at Oklahoma gave him very defined reads, lots of space, didn't consistently make NFL caliber reads and throws, hasn't been able to run a pro-style offense yet. And he's proven to not be very accurate, especially on intermediate and deep throws.

This pretty summed up my thoughts on him as a prospect. I was never a fan of him as a prospect and always found him to be extremely hyped and overrated. Then again, I liked Jimmy Clausen over him so....:(

whatadai
05-15-2012, 09:45 PM
The Panthers were smart enough to move forward with a new QB when given the opportunity, the Rams don't seem to be willing to do the same because of one 7-9 season

Or because the cap hit would be ridiculous?

fenikz
05-15-2012, 09:46 PM
the fact that rookies are cheaper now makes that excuse stupid

whatadai
05-15-2012, 10:30 PM
the fact that rookies are cheaper now makes that excuse stupid

What's cheap rookies have to do with a $20 million cap hit?

descendency
05-16-2012, 01:37 AM
What's cheap rookies have to do with a $20 million cap hit?

You don't have to cut him to draft a QB. Obviously, you'd like to get rid of him, but a dome team shouldn't be pathetic on offense. That's basically what they are...

stlouisfan37
05-16-2012, 03:10 AM
I appreciate the feedback guys. General opinion on him ranges from "because he's a douche" to "in 5 years I think he will be a top 10 QB."

For what it's worth, I wasn't real high on him coming out of college. I wanted Ndamukong Suh. The only Oklahoma QB I could even think of that did anything in the NFL was Troy Aikman, who spent half of his collegiate days at UCLA. But in hindsight it was the right move. Without him we likely wouldn't have landed Fisher, and without Fisher we wouldn't have landed Snead.

I think he will surprise some, but I doubt he becomes a perennial pro-bowler. I don't think anyone can argue the fact that he was thrust into a less-than-ideal situation with a defensive-minded head coach and few weapons to work with. I like the fact that the new staff has added a couple of pieces, but not gone apeshit crazy in free agency. Whenever a team adds too many pieces at once there are players who get lost in the shuffle. I see the Rams making decent strides this season and then adding another piece or two next year.

whatadai
05-16-2012, 03:18 AM
You don't have to cut him to draft a QB. Obviously, you'd like to get rid of him, but a dome team shouldn't be pathetic on offense. That's basically what they are...

I'm not saying they're not pathetic offensively. Just saying the Rams were stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they drafted Griffin as the successor...there's no logic to keeping Bradford at his $12 million salary this year. But if they traded or cut him they would have gotten $20 million in penalties...so that would have been difficult to swallow too. Not only that, but they would be quitting on him after two years while the fan base doesn't hate him yet. Considering that they haven't really surrounded him with any talent whatsoever, it just wasn't the time to cut ties. That and it's a new staff so Bradford going into his 3rd year and 3rd offense is as much as a crapshoot for success as Griffin going into his rookie year. Not only that...the ransom they got can't be argued against. By dropping 12 draft spots they gained 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders while still getting a player they believe will make an immediate impact.

bigbluedefense
05-16-2012, 07:21 AM
I don't get it either. He had a very good rookie year, and had a down sophomore year with awful talent around him and a new offense he never fit into.

He went from being great to zomg he suckzzz so quickly here it was unbelievable. I'm still a Bradford fan, have been for awhile, and I think he'll be just fine.

georgiafan
05-16-2012, 07:44 AM
Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.

Monomach
05-16-2012, 09:09 AM
I said it before that draft, after that draft, and after his "impressive" (lol) rookie season: he's not going to be a good QB. I think he was a bad prospect and didn't understand the love he got. I still don't understand the love he gets.

I'm going to say it yet again...Sam Bradford will have a worse career than Clausen and Skelton. Well, assuming Clausen can get out of Carolina soon.


So that's why I'm down on him.

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.

Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.

K Train
05-16-2012, 09:48 AM
Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.

hines ward, cedric wilson, antwaan randel el=marginal WR talent


about bradford though, im not really going to be nice about it because i think he really kinda sucks and doesnt have too much of a future as an NFL QB. He was promising his rookie year i suppose but once he was forced to throw 10 yards down the field, that promise kinda disappeared. No one fears sam bradford, i dont expect that to change very much

Monomach
05-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Did I just read where someone called Hines Ward a marginal WR talent? :facepalm:

Hines Ward was a top possession receiver. The "marginal" version of Hines Ward is more like an Earl Bennett.

K Train
05-16-2012, 09:56 AM
Did I just read where someone called Hines Ward a marginal WR talent? :facepalm:

Hines Ward was a top possession receiver. The "marginal" version of Hines Ward is more like an Earl Bennett.

hines ward was always pretty average. the only thing that separates a guy like him from a guy like steve smith, or even cotchery his replacement is that he throws a good block and an even better blind side block.

just cause he was paid like a top WR for so many years doesnt mean he was actually a top WR

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2012, 10:11 AM
Hines Ward may not be a HOFer, but he's not what I would ever call a 'marginal' WR.

Some guys are so clutch and dependable all the time that people forget what they bring to an offense.

georgiafan
05-16-2012, 10:12 AM
Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Stafford had Megatron.
Bradford had who last year that wasn't an overglorified 2nd or 3rd WR??
Even when healthy, which one of Bradford's WRs would have been starters on another NFL team??

The only QB I know who's won with marginal WR talent around him is Tom Brady.

Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.

K Train
05-16-2012, 10:21 AM
Hines Ward may not be a HOFer, but he's not what I would ever call a 'marginal' WR.

Some guys are so clutch and dependable all the time that people forget what they bring to an offense.
i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious

georgiafan
05-16-2012, 10:27 AM
i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious

I get what your trying to say when you compare the pitt WR group has a whole at the time was prob somewhere in the teens in the NFL.

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2012, 10:36 AM
Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.

Steven Jackson wasn't a top 5 tailback in either '10 or '11. And he was hurt for much of last year.
Roddy White had a 1200 yard/6 TD season the year before Matt Ryan was drafted.

Give Bradford decent protection and WR talent that can beat man coverage deep and get open across the middle and we'll see if Bradford is trash or not.

How many people were saying Matt Stafford was looking like a bust before last year??

When a QB is injured or playing hurt for most of the season, it's not really a fair analysis to judge whether he's any good or not.

georgiafan
05-16-2012, 11:22 AM
Steven Jackson wasn't a top 5 tailback in either '10 or '11. And he was hurt for much of last year.
Roddy White had a 1200 yard/6 TD season the year before Matt Ryan was drafted.

Give Bradford decent protection and WR talent that can beat man coverage deep and get open across the middle and we'll see if Bradford is trash or not.

How many people were saying Matt Stafford was looking like a bust before last year??

When a QB is injured or playing hurt for most of the season, it's not really a fair analysis to judge whether he's any good or not.

Steven Jackson is a productive HB at the worst he is a top 10 HB the last 2 years. Everyone agrees that the WR core needs more talent.

But lets take a closer look at his stats from 2010. He threw for a lot of yards in over 3,500 but he also had the 3rd most pass attempts in the NFL with 590. You give him a pass on interceptions bc he was a rookie. His yards perr attempt was 30th in the NFL that year with under 6. The scary thing is that even though his yards per attemp is really low he didnt complete a lot of pass with 60% that year.

Compare his yard per attempt that year to QB's that year and he is below people like Rex Grossman, Tarvaris Jackson, Tebow, Curtis Painter, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Freeman, Cassell and barely above Colt Mccoy. His QB rating that year is also below most of the names I just mentioned.

Poz51
05-16-2012, 11:56 AM
1 - 3 OC's in 3 years, creates a lack of stability, and hinders development.
2 - His offensive line is terrible, he is constantly on his back, and is developing TES.
3 - His wide recievers are nothing more than a collection of backups.
4 - He cant stay healthy and could not before he won the lottery.
5 - He's not at Oklahoma, in the safety of their spread offense.
6 - He does not have huge college windows to throw the ball through anymore.
7 - Even in a dome his arm strength and accuracy are an issue, especially on any vertical throws, and defenses pack it in tight on him.
8 - He was not a legitimate #1 pick at QB to begin with, and neither was Clausen, who I also had rated higher than Sam.

I am not overly high on him, but I can not say he has gotten a fair shake by any means, no stability, no protection, and no weapons. His development has constantly been hindered. I am not sure anyone can fairly gage him until he gets some thing besides S. Jackson to work with. Maybe with pieces around him he turns into J. Montana...

whatadai
05-16-2012, 03:08 PM
Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.

Matt Ryan had Roddy White AND Michael Turner when they were both hitting their prime.

Who the **** needs a rushing game when you have a freak like Megatron? Have you seen the ****** throws into double and triple coverage that Stafford gives to Megatron only to see Megatron come out with it? I'm not saying Bradford will be an elite QB, but he is not as bad as he looks and Stafford is definitely not as good as he looks. Bradford and Stafford are underrated and overrated, respectively.

stlouisfan37
05-16-2012, 09:12 PM
i was calling it a marginal group, hines ward as your #1 just is pretty average imo. Wilson and ARE were pretty atrocious

Hines Ward's rankings on the all-time list...

Receptions - 8th
Yards - 18th
Touchdowns - 13th

That isn't what I would call average. I would say he has been a star player. Not a HOFer, but a star nonetheless.

Additionally, the Steelers have one of the league's top run games and Roethlisberger throws a lot less than the league average. As well as the fact that they have a solid team with a well-developed system and a culture of winning. I think it is an unfair comparison.

JHL6719
05-16-2012, 10:58 PM
I never thought that highly of him. Bradford is just another in a long line of overrated, stat-whoring Big-12 quarterbacks who pad their stats against bad defenses in college and have to be "surrounded by weapons" just in order to look halfway decent in the NFL.

Can't maintain any type of consistency from year to year even for the better one's. They're either above average or horrible once they get to the NFL and see defense being played for the first time.

Bradford looks a lot like Jimmy Clausen with no talent around him. Nevermind the fact that Bradford can't stay healthy.

I don't believe that the folks who had Clausen even with Bradford, or even ahead of him as prospects are going to end up that far off in the long run, if they end up being off at all.

For all the talk that Clausen was the next Rick Mirer from Notre Dame, it's Bradford's career that's seemingly going to mirror Mirer's career, at least to this point.

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2012, 11:14 PM
Tough crowd. 2nd year injury challenged QB who's not a pro bowler yet??

Cut him. He sucks forever.

Same can wipe his ass with that ROTY award he won in 2010 too.lol

georgiafan
05-17-2012, 07:23 AM
Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that

tmljeh19
05-17-2012, 09:08 AM
To me he just doesn't have it. I don't buy the whole 3 new offenses in 3 years thing. Hell Jason Campbell had 7 in 7 years including 4 in college and 3 his first 3 years in DC and he still blew when he finally got that stability. Not to mention he lead his team to an undefeated national championship in his fourth year and fourth offensive system. Bradford should be having his way with that division expect for SF possibly. He is starting to develop the David Carr/Patrick Ramsey syndrome. It's not entirely his fault but at least half if not more of the blame has to be put on him. For being a number 1 overall pick you need to produce. Period. IMO this is his make or break year. If he shits the bed again I would entertain the thought of moving on, deeply.

PACKmanN
05-17-2012, 10:03 AM
Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that

How many elite qbs are there and at what point in their careers did they hit their elite status..

You act as if any qb can come into that team and win. The entire team needs to be rebuilt, not just on offense.

georgiafan
05-17-2012, 10:29 AM
How many elite qbs are there and at what point in their careers did they hit their elite status..

You act as if any qb can come into that team and win. The entire team needs to be rebuilt, not just on offense.

Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.

FUNBUNCHER
05-17-2012, 10:58 AM
Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.

Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.:facepalm:

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.:wave:

brat316
05-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Falcons were butt after Mike Vick left, and then their coach. 2 men brought the dirty bird back to life.

brat316
05-17-2012, 12:21 PM
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.:facepalm:

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.:wave:

Watkins will probably suck it a Clemson thing.

Woods will be there, I don't know about Bradford till 2015. And if they can't find another WR through the draft or FA in 3 years hmmm. seems like Qb isn't the only problem. Also very optimistic thinking he'll be around for a total 5/6 years

georgiafan
05-17-2012, 12:39 PM
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.:facepalm:

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.:wave:

None of the QB's we are talking about was in a perfect situation you could say they had a better supporting cast then Bradford but all of them faced issues.

Ryan - The falcons was a train wreck when he was drafted both on and off the field. The OL went from bad to respectable bc of Ryan being smart and getting rid of the ball fast. The OL was so bad they reached badly trading up for Sam Baker.

Cam Newton - He has overpaid and overpriced HB's a WR that was past his prime and no proven depth at WR.

Dalton - lack of a running game, terrible owners and a very talented but rookie #1 WR.

Flacoo - Good defense and running game but no elite WR's.

Iamcanadian
05-17-2012, 06:26 PM
Fans are fickle and follow the 'what have you done lately' trends. Hence all the hate for Sanchez and Bradford no matter what they did the year before. I think both will rebound and have very successful careers and a lot of people will be left with egg on the face disclaiming they ever criticized either.

Rosebud
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Another thing about bradford is the divison he in is horrible and the QB's in that division might be the worst group of all time. His rookie year a 7 win team won the division.

You can say all you want to about supporting cast and they do matter but elite QB's make the players around them better. Bradford has yet do that

I'd like you to name a sophomore QB that was elite enough to take a bad team to a division championship, not even getting into the 9ers surge that would've meant Bradford would've needed to lead that team to at least 12 wins, assuming they beat the 9ers in both games, to get to that division title. Just one would be nice. If you can do more than just one that'd be great, but can we start ******** on Cam if the Panthers can't win the NFC South this year?

Rosebud
05-17-2012, 06:44 PM
Here lately QB's have started to win early over the last 5 years QB's like Ryan, Flacco, Dalton, Newton all won games pretty early. Bradford has no excuse not win games bc the divison is so weak. The 49ers won 13 games last year, but overall the last 2 years that divison is a joke.

An elite QB doesn't need talent around him to win a superbowl he makes the players around him better. This is why Matt Ryan will never be a top 5 QB bc if he is ever gonna win the superbowl he is gonna have to have a lot of talent around him. Bradford could be a avg to good QB but I don't see him ever getting past that level.

One of these is not like the other. Look at the talent Ryan, Flacco and Dalton have to work with. Now look at what Sam Bradford had to work with. Now that you feel stupid, look at how many more wins Cam got than Sam did, then remember that Cam had a good OL, multiple good backs so that one getting injured didn't take away the running attack...oh yeah, and he had Steve Smith.

stlouisfan37
05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
Flacco was drafted by one of the most dominant defensive teams in the league. He hasn't exactly lit the league on fire with his aerial skills either.
Andy Dalton went in the 2nd round to a team that had playoff caliber starting talent. Cam Newton is a freak of nature who played behind a solid Oline, had two talented TEs and a dominant #1 WR, and one of the best RB tandems in the league.
The Falcons are playoff contenders annually in a tough division because of Matt Ryan with a talented core of players on both sides of the football.

Which one of these situations remotely resembles what Bradford has to work with in St. Louis??? The guy was hurt on and off for most of last year, his second year in the league.:facepalm:

Were people really expecting Bradford in his 2nd year to take the Rams to the playoffs, for the most part all by himself???

I personally can't dump on the guy after his 2nd year in the pros after winning ROTY in 2010.

Sam Bradford's biggest challenge this season is to stay healthy all 16 games.

THe Rams have two first round draft picks in both 2013 and 2014, which should not be taken for granted.

When Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods are both Rams in 2015, let's have this convo again about how bad Bradford sucks as an NFL QB.:wave:

I knew you were a mindreader!

bucfan12
05-17-2012, 09:14 PM
I will agree that the Rams haven't done a good job at surrounding Bradford with WR help. However, I was never really a fan of him coming out. I always thought he was just a product of the Oklahoma offense like most QBs out of Oklahoma are. Same with Landry Jones.

Bradford to me isn't much better than Mark Sanchez and Bradford's potential isn't elite. More of like an Alex Smith in my opinion.

Complex
05-18-2012, 01:25 AM
His lack of any actual arm strength will always limit him, he simply can not throw a 15+ yard pass with accuracy or zip

And the Rams have used multiple picks on receivers even trading for Brandon Lloyd

Name these amazing WR's they traded for

Complex
05-18-2012, 01:27 AM
hines ward, cedric wilson, antwaan randel el=marginal WR talent



http://media.celebremix.com/5/celebrity/431/1333657330.jpg

You're funny

Complex
05-18-2012, 01:32 AM
Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.

Roddy said he didn't care about becoming great his 1st few seasons and had 1,000 yard receiving. Mike Turner carried the falcons not Matt. Stafford lobbed it up to Megatron half the time and has a pretty good supporting cast in Titus,Nate, Scheffler, and Pettigrew.

Who from Sam Bradford supporting cast would have started on the lions? The rams best WR not counting Lloyd who joined during the season would of have been the 6th option for the Lions.

fenikz
05-18-2012, 01:45 AM
Name these amazing WR's they traded for

gj reading

Complex
05-18-2012, 01:55 AM
gj reading

Named these amazing WR's they picked

Ness
05-18-2012, 02:30 AM
Roddy White was not the WR he is now until Matt Ryan showed up. The lions couldn't win without Stafford. A real francshise QB finds a way to win games no matter the talent around him. He may not have a great WR core but he has a top 5 HB thats more then some people have.

Tampa Bay should have held on to Steve Young then haha.

fenikz
05-18-2012, 02:36 AM
Named these amazing WR's they picked

Also never said they are amazing, but they have basically spent an entire draft of picks worth plus 2 WR & 2 RB this year, he is almost out of excuses

2010
4. Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincy
5. Michael Hoomanawanui, TE, Illinois
6. Fendi Onobun, TE, Houston

2011
2. Lance Kendricks, TE, Wisconsin
3. Austin Pettis, WR, Boise State
4. Greg Salas, WR, Hawaii

Scotty D
05-18-2012, 02:38 AM
I'm not going to fault the Rams for not getting Blackmon but they should have at least found a way to get Floyd.

stlouisfan37
05-18-2012, 02:43 AM
Named these amazing WR's they picked

Last year they picked Pettis and Salas. They were highly criticized for taking a pair of possession receivers that were similar to a few guys they already had. Salas may turn out decent. I doubt if Pettis makes the team this year.

This year they took Brian Quick and Chris Givens. I think Quick has all the tools to really be something. Givens has wheels and will stretch the field. While neither has yet to play a down, IMO they are both much better prospects than the guys they took last year.

49ersfan_87
05-18-2012, 02:56 AM
I'm not going to fault the Rams for not getting Blackmon but they should have at least found a way to get Floyd.

They didn't even like Floyd all that much, they had Blackmon, Jenkins, and Quick rated higher than him.

fenikz
05-18-2012, 03:19 AM
And that's why the Rams are horrible at drafting ;)

Complex
05-18-2012, 02:03 PM
Also never said they are amazing, but they have basically spent an entire draft of picks worth plus 2 WR & 2 RB this year, he is almost out of excuses

2010
4. Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincy
5. Michael Hoomanawanui, TE, Illinois
6. Fendi Onobun, TE, Houston

2011
2. Lance Kendricks, TE, Wisconsin
3. Austin Pettis, WR, Boise State
4. Greg Salas, WR, Hawaii

Nice 2010 draft, cause we all know the good WR's and TE's are picked in 3rd day of the draft. After that draft Sam Bradford had no excuses.

Pettis and Salas are fighting for the 5th and 6th WR spots because they are so amazing. I don't see how Bradford with that godly supporting cast he had last year.

A Rams team insider told Pro Football Weekly that Steve Smith will likely be St. Louis' fourth receiver if he's healthy enough to make the roster.
Only Brian Quick, Chris Givens, and Danny Amendola are considered locks to make the 53, and it's wide open for the fifth and sixth spots if Smith can secure the fourth. "It really is up in the air between Brandon Gibson, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis and Greg Salas," said the Rams source. "I really was starting to like Salas before he got hurt. He reminds me of a bigger Amendola."

BigBanger
05-18-2012, 05:17 PM
I think Bradford is a middle of the pack type QB. At his best. I don't think he'll be a great player, but I don't fault him for last season. That offensive scheme was the polar opposite of what he needed. It magnified all his weaknesses (and the offensive line by making deeper drop backs and longer, drawn out throws) and hid all his strengths.

When he was in an offense that got rid of the ball quickly, then he was mildly effective and won 7 games as a rookie. The offensive line looked better, he looked better and the Rams looked like they were an NFL team. When they got away from that, Roger Saffold looked like the RT that he is (playing out of position) and the rest of the line was forced to sustain blocks. It bombed in their faces since it played to all their weaknesses, Bradford included.

I think Bradford does lack the NFL tools of the great QBs currently in the game today. I don't think he has the vertical passing ability to be an elite player. I never thought he did. I think he can be a solid QB. Is he going to make a Pro Bowl? In the NFC? Nowadays? Probably not even with a career year. But can he win and lead a team to the playoffs? If he has the right system and players around him, yes. He's more the type of QB that needs everything around him clicking on all cylinders so he can look good. When I watched him at Oklahoma, he looked like the 5th best player on their offense. Wasn't asked to do much, didn't make difficult throws and he got the ball to skilled players in space. It was easy for him. The NFL hasn't been easy. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a bust and it wouldn't surprise me if he turned into a halfway decent QB. If he turned into an elite player... color me shocked. He's been one of the worst QBs in the NFL for the past two years. That can be tough on a player. He's gotta know it.

Would I trade him? I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it if I were making the calls. I would have never drafted him in the first place, but he just doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that is going to get your team to that next level. He might be a David Garrard or Alex Smith type where he flashes just enough, plays well just enough to maintain a starting job, but at the same time the type of guy you're always looking to upgrade.

FUNBUNCHER
05-18-2012, 06:12 PM
Who were the 4 other better offensive players on those OU offenses when Bradford was the starter?

There sure aren't in the NFL doing jack.
Bradford maxed out Stoops' offense and it's never looked the same before or since. He made reads that most QBs don't in that OU spread. I don't buy that Bradford was 'handing off' to his WRs at OU.

He elevated the play of that entire unit by himself.

OzTitan
05-18-2012, 07:14 PM
The only reason you need to consider - because Jeff Fisher is where talented QBs go to become game managers.

Complex
05-18-2012, 09:03 PM
The only reason you need to consider - because Jeff Fisher is where talented QBs go to become game managers.

This is true plus Jeff doesn't really like drafting WR's early besides Dyson and Britt. Vince young WR's for a while were Roydell Williams, Justin Gage, Courtney Roby and a couple other scrubs.

TitanHope
05-18-2012, 09:44 PM
Nice 2010 draft, cause we all know the good WR's and TE's are picked in 3rd day of the draft. After that draft Sam Bradford had no excuses.

Pettis and Salas are fighting for the 5th and 6th WR spots because they are so amazing. I don't see how Bradford with that godly supporting cast he had last year.

I never liked the Austin Pettis pick, and thought Salas was kind of redundant since they already had Amendola. So if Salas becomes the slot WR he should be, what do they do with Amendola?

If I'm not mistaken, Pettis is a good ST's contributor. He can hold kicks and play Gunner, I believe. Drew Bennett was the holder for the Titans way back when, so maybe that'll intrigue Fisher. Plus, he was a 3rd RD pick, and it could be hard to cut ties after one season (but it should be remembered that he wasn't a Fisher pick, so draft status may not mean much). They should hang on to Danario Alexander, in my opinion. I wanted the Titans to trade for him last season after Britt went down. So I guess that leaves Brandon Gibson as the odd man out, but he'd probably be picked up as a 5th WR somewhere else pretty quickly.

X WR: Brian Quick, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis (ST),
Z WR: Chris Givens, Steve Smith,
Y WR: Danny Amendola, Greg Salas,

So that's 7 WR's. Not sure why Steve Smith is considered to have a near automatic roster spot, but if he can return to form, then he could definitely handle #2 Z WR duties.


Also, I have no clue why I'm talking about the Rams receivers...

Rosebud
05-19-2012, 08:57 AM
This is true plus Jeff doesn't really like drafting WR's early besides Dyson and Britt. Vince young WR's for a while were Roydell Williams, Justin Gage, Courtney Roby and a couple other scrubs.

To be fair, when you've got a QB like VY why bother wasting resources on Receivers? Just get guys that can run block and stock up the D.

San Diego Chicken
05-20-2012, 06:35 AM
He's not good with pressure in his face at all. I think he has the worst completion % of any starter over the last two years while pressured (just going off memory maybe someone can look that up for me). You can't be a top QB with this flaw and that's the only way you can justify his contract. The Rams failed to improve their OL so it's hard to see him succeeding anytime soon.

whatadai
05-20-2012, 01:39 PM
Not sure why Steve Smith is considered to have a near automatic roster spot, but if he can return to form, then he could definitely handle #2 Z WR duties.

He wasn't ready last year because of his injury. There's a reason the Giants didn't work very hard to sign him. Philadelphia was full of horrible decision makers last season and played him when he still wasn't 100%. Bradford loves his slot and Steve Smith at 100% is a way better slot option than Amendola at 100%.

bigbluedefense
05-20-2012, 01:42 PM
It's a shame what happened to Stevey.

He should have just listened to the Giants medical staff and he wouldn't be in this position.

Saints-Tigers
05-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I still feel like if you have to say "well the team needs to do this, this and this for him to be elite" then he will never be elite. Sam's best case is somewhere between Alex Smith and Matt Ryan if he totally pans out and stays healthy.

whatadai
05-20-2012, 07:36 PM
I still feel like if you have to say "well the team needs to do this, this and this for him to be elite" then he will never be elite. Sam's best case is somewhere between Alex Smith and Matt Ryan if he totally pans out and stays healthy.

That's such a huge range...and Matt Ryan has one more year to prove it IMO.

georgiafan
05-21-2012, 07:55 AM
I still feel like if you have to say "well the team needs to do this, this and this for him to be elite" then he will never be elite. Sam's best case is somewhere between Alex Smith and Matt Ryan if he totally pans out and stays healthy.

That's a pretty good way to put it as even if Sam lives up to his potential I don't see him getting past Matt Ryan's level. Who puts up good stats, puts his time in the playoffs but needs help to ever win a superbowl

Rosebud
05-21-2012, 09:12 AM
I still feel like if you have to say "well the team needs to do this, this and this for him to be elite" then he will never be elite. Sam's best case is somewhere between Alex Smith and Matt Ryan if he totally pans out and stays healthy.

We'd be making the same argument for Matt Stafford if he didn't have megatron and there's people already ready to put him in their top 5s. *shrug*

The same arguments where being made about Eli needing less ******** receivers. About Big Ben needing to learn to carry his offense and not just provide occasional big plays. Rodgers needing to speed up his deliver if the Packers weren't going to improve their OL. Every QBs needs tools to succeed and that applies to elite QBs to. Give any QB what Sam Bradford has been working with and they will not put up an elite season.

georgiafan
05-21-2012, 09:31 AM
We'd be making the same argument for Matt Stafford if he didn't have megatron and there's people already ready to put him in their top 5s. *shrug*

The same arguments where being made about Eli needing less ******** receivers. About Big Ben needing to learn to carry his offense and not just provide occasional big plays. Rodgers needing to speed up his deliver if the Packers weren't going to improve their OL. Every QBs needs tools to succeed and that applies to elite QBs to. Give any QB what Sam Bradford has been working with and they will not put up an elite season.

Stafford had over 5,000 yards and 40 TD's and carried the lions to the playoffs. Brees and Rogers just had better #'s and that took the spotlight off him. Calvin is a great player but they don't come close to the playoffs without Stafford. Since we are on the subject of support casting the Lions have a average OL, terrible run game.

Yea Calvin is great but lets not act like he is the only reason they are winning. TE/WR have little outcome on the games. When Gronk got hurt for the superbowl the line moved 0.5 points

Rosebud
05-21-2012, 09:49 AM
I'm not saying Stafford would be terrible, but he wouldn't be close to elite if you took Calvin off that team. Does that mean that with a quality supporting group he couldn't become elite? No, and that was the point I was making.

georgiafan
05-21-2012, 10:10 AM
I'm not saying Stafford would be terrible, but he wouldn't be close to elite if you took Calvin off that team. Does that mean that with a quality supporting group he couldn't become elite? No, and that was the point I was making.

I get what you are saying that bc any QB is going to be better with a good supporting cast. But a elite QB will put up stats and win games no matter his supporting cast.

Part of the blame does go to the rams bc they had a chance to give him some elite players in the last draft. But they keep on trading back and brought up 2nd and 3rd tier players. Though they do have a chance to make up for that in the next 2 years.

Rosebud
05-21-2012, 10:53 AM
I get what you are saying that bc any QB is going to be better with a good supporting cast. But a elite QB will put up stats and win games no matter his supporting cast.

Part of the blame does go to the rams bc they had a chance to give him some elite players in the last draft. But they keep on trading back and brought up 2nd and 3rd tier players. Though they do have a chance to make up for that in the next 2 years.

But how many QBs become elite in their sophomore season. I'm not arguing Sam Bradford is already great and just needs to stay healthy so he can have a monster year the way Stafford did, but I'm arguing against the notion that he can never become elite. His arm strength concerns are well overplayed, it's to the lower end of top NFL guys, but it's not weak like Colt McCoy's or post-surgery Chad Pennington, when he's attacked down the field his balls don't flutter, he doesn't need to sky them and they get where their going with good pace. His arm is absolutely no worse than Brees' and Brady's were when they first broke out. He's also got quick feet and a good throwing motion, if he doesn't break from all the pressure he's got the ability to slide around in the pocket very well. His accuracy and feel for passing are strengths and he's a smart kid. He needs to consistently improve, but so does every QB that ever becomes elite, the tools for Bradford are there, he's looked good when healthy and that team has a lot of ammunition to drastically up the talent level around him. The Rams won't be passing SanFran and Seattle next season, but the future is far from grim in St Louis.

Matthew Jones
05-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Sam Bradford deserves a couple more seasons before the Rams get really serious about trying someone else at quarterback; maybe Jeff Fisher decides to add a veteran backup if Bradford doesn't make some serious strides forward this year but this will be the third offense Bradford has learned in three years so it may not be fair to evaluate him on this season alone. So far he hasn't made much of an impact (low completion percentage, YPA, high turnover rate) but the financial investment is too high to give up already and St. Louis won't find a more promising option without investing a top draft pick.

BigBanger
05-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Who were the 4 other better offensive players on those OU offenses when Bradford was the starter?

There sure aren't in the NFL doing jack.
Bradford maxed out Stoops' offense and it's never looked the same before or since. He made reads that most QBs don't in that OU spread. I don't buy that Bradford was 'handing off' to his WRs at OU.

He elevated the play of that entire unit by himself.
DeMarco Murray, Trent Williams and Jermaine Gresham are certainly doing something in the NFL. More than "jack", and I think you could argue that they are doing more than Bradford has, or at least flashed the elite / borderline elite ability that Bradford hasn‘t. Gresham is already in the discussions for one of the Top 5 TEs in the NFL. Murray has looked pretty special. He has exploded onto the NFL scene much like he did in his college spring game. Williams has the potential to be a Pro Bowl player, and was named offensive co-captain in his second season. Those guys are all NFL starters and they’re all pretty good players. They’re guys who were great college players, which is more to my original point.

Ryan Broyles was a pretty good college WR. He only holds the FBS career receptions record. Juaquin Iglesias (3rd Rounder) and Manuel Johnson were pretty solid as well. Chris Brown was a pretty good compliment to Murray when they both ran for 1,000+ yards in the same record breaking season.

Phil Loadholt (2nd Rounder) was an All-Everything offensive linemen and Duke Robinson (5th Rounder) was a highly regarded prospect entering the draft due to all his college accolades (2x All-American).

That team was stacked. Donald Stephenson went in 3rd round this year as well from that offensive line. And I didn't even get to the defensive side of the ball.

My point wasn't supposed to be taken literally, but noted that the offensive talent was not only incredible for the college game, but historically impressive. That was one of the greatest offenses in the history of college football. Bradford had something to do with that -- no question about it -- but there were also some pretty good players on those teams and a scheme / hurry-up system that feasted on weak opposing Big 12 defenses. When you watched him, it should have been something worth noting, or something that should have raised a little red flag.

I always said it was difficult to watch Bradford, in the same way that it was difficult to scout Cam Newton. You could watch an entire game and see, maybe (MAYBE), 5 throws that were NFL type reads + throws. Guys were so wide open that I felt you could stick anyone behind the center and the offense would put up 40 points a game (Then Landry Jones became a 1st round talent as well. Who knew that was going to happen?).

I remember thinking just how boring it was to watch Bradford. I was hardly ever impressed with him. The only really impressive game I saw from Bradford was the BCS Championship game. He was actually getting hit and making throws into coverage … like consistently.

Caulibflower
05-21-2012, 04:41 PM
Cross between Alex Smith and Matt Ryan.

EDIT: Just realized Saints-Tigers said exactly this at the top of the page.

=FACT.

FUNBUNCHER
05-21-2012, 05:35 PM
BB, I'm talking about skill position talent.
Iglesias have been a marginal NFL player. Malcolm Kelly is out of the league. Chris Brown never played in the NFL. Manuel Johnson is MIA. Broyles is still trying to make an NFL roster this summer.

Greshman and Murray are the only NFL caliber skill position talent that Bradford played with at OU.

You're correct to argue Bradford played behind one of the better Olines in college football, which allowed him to maximize great college, but marginal pro talent at the skill positions.
I still contend that Bradford was the BEST offensive player on those Sooners football teams.

Saints-Tigers
05-21-2012, 10:48 PM
Stafford's tools and play are just substantially superior to Bradford's though. Even Megatron is going to struggle if your pass gets their so slow and late that the entire secondary isalready there.

Great QBs are great. They need a great supporting cast to win consistently, but great QBs look great even in ****** situations.

georgiafan
05-22-2012, 07:19 AM
edit - im deleting this as I didnt see you name Duke RObinson at first

DeMarco Murray, Trent Williams and Jermaine Gresham are certainly doing something in the NFL. More than "jack", and I think you could argue that they are doing more than Bradford has, or at least flashed the elite / borderline elite ability that Bradford hasn‘t. Gresham is already in the discussions for one of the Top 5 TEs in the NFL. Murray has looked pretty special. He has exploded onto the NFL scene much like he did in his college spring game. Williams has the potential to be a Pro Bowl player, and was named offensive co-captain in his second season. Those guys are all NFL starters and they’re all pretty good players. They’re guys who were great college players, which is more to my original point.

Ryan Broyles was a pretty good college WR. He only holds the FBS career receptions record. Juaquin Iglesias (3rd Rounder) and Manuel Johnson were pretty solid as well. Chris Brown was a pretty good compliment to Murray when they both ran for 1,000+ yards in the same record breaking season.

Phil Loadholt (2nd Rounder) was an All-Everything offensive linemen and Duke Robinson (5th Rounder) was a highly regarded prospect entering the draft due to all his college accolades (2x All-American).

That team was stacked. Donald Stephenson went in 3rd round this year as well from that offensive line. And I didn't even get to the defensive side of the ball.

My point wasn't supposed to be taken literally, but noted that the offensive talent was not only incredible for the college game, but historically impressive. That was one of the greatest offenses in the history of college football. Bradford had something to do with that -- no question about it -- but there were also some pretty good players on those teams and a scheme / hurry-up system that feasted on weak opposing Big 12 defenses. When you watched him, it should have been something worth noting, or something that should have raised a little red flag.

I always said it was difficult to watch Bradford, in the same way that it was difficult to scout Cam Newton. You could watch an entire game and see, maybe (MAYBE), 5 throws that were NFL type reads + throws. Guys were so wide open that I felt you could stick anyone behind the center and the offense would put up 40 points a game (Then Landry Jones became a 1st round talent as well. Who knew that was going to happen?).

I remember thinking just how boring it was to watch Bradford. I was hardly ever impressed with him. The only really impressive game I saw from Bradford was the BCS Championship game. He was actually getting hit and making throws into coverage … like consistently.

jrdrylie
05-22-2012, 09:58 AM
I'm not saying Stafford would be terrible, but he wouldn't be close to elite if you took Calvin off that team. Does that mean that with a quality supporting group he couldn't become elite? No, and that was the point I was making.

Ugh, I hate this argument. He came into a team that was 0-16. The next season, the team wins only 2 games (both Stafford starts) but he was injured for half the season. His second year, he played only 3 games and the team goes 6-10. His first healthy season, they go 10-6 and make the playoffs. As for Calvin, his numbers were okay during his first few years. But they weren't great. Some people were even calling him a slight disappointment. A full season under Stafford, he increased his career high numbers by 18 receptions, 350 yards, and 6 TDs.

Job Reborn
05-22-2012, 10:21 AM
BB, I'm talking about skill position talent.
Iglesias have been a marginal NFL player. Malcolm Kelly is out of the league. Chris Brown never played in the NFL. Manuel Johnson is MIA. Broyles is still trying to make an NFL roster this summer.

Greshman and Murray are the only NFL caliber skill position talent that Bradford played with at OU.

You're correct to argue Bradford played behind one of the better Olines in college football, which allowed him to maximize great college, but marginal pro talent at the skill positions.
I still contend that Bradford was the BEST offensive player on those Sooners football teams.

He's talking college talent/ability, not NFL. Tim Tebow and Reggie Bush are amongst the greatest college players ever and haven't exactly been so great in the NFL. There's a LOT of guys in college that are better suited for that type of game than others who become a lot better than them in the NFL.

I'm not saying it is or isn't the case for that Bradford thing.

RCAChainGang
05-22-2012, 10:26 AM
I think Peyton showed he could be elite without a good supporting cast. This past season showed us that Peyton made several of our receivers look like superstars (Dallas Clark/Pierre Garçon/Hell even Blair White looked impressive).

However, I think it is very rare to find a QB that can pick up the slack of an entire team. I truly believe that Peyton did that. He had to put up tons of numbers to make up for the lack of running game. Also, the defense in Indy was always bad. When we finally won the superbowl it was because the defense finally ate their wheaties for that playoff stretch. Each season the Colts would put up 10-14 wins because of Peyton. As time went on it became more and more because of Peyton. This post comes from a Colts fan so take it with a grain of salt I guess.

armageddon
05-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Give Bradford VJAx and Gates and he would look similar to Rivers.

San Diego Chicken
05-23-2012, 01:07 AM
Give Bradford VJAx and Gates and he would look similar to Rivers.

Give me a Prada dress and I'd look like Beyonce.

yodabear
05-23-2012, 01:21 AM
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bigbluedefense
05-23-2012, 11:27 AM
It's amazing how quickly everyone's opinion on the guy has completely changed. Jeez, the guy had a sophomore slump on a terrible team with a new offense. Give the guy a break.

He has all the tools, and I saw NFL caliber reads and throws. One thing that most ppl don't pay attention to is, when you're evaluating a developing qb, forget the numbers. Throw the numbers out the window.

His development depends on his ability to read defenses, adjust plays, and make NFL throws.

I'll give you a scenario. 2 QBs who are currently developing both complete a 8 yard pass.

QB A does a hard count. From the hard count, he sees that it's a 4 man rush, and reads Cover 3 pre-snap based on the defense's formation, and the way the DBs dropped their hips after the hard count.

QB A motions his X inside, who's running an 8 yard curl, and hikes the ball, where the X wr runs his curl in the open hole in the zone, QB A looks off the safety to open up that hole more, than goes back to the X WR and completes the 8 yard pass.

Now QB B's scenario:

QB B has a 1 step drop quick slant called. He has 2 reads, the 1 step quick slant to his Z, and if that's covered, a check down to his RB in the flat. No need to read the defense, he's making college level progression type of reads. He hikes the ball, no change in protections, no change to the play, he just hikes it, his Z gets open, he hits his Z for 8 yards.

Now look at those 2 qbs. Both made 8 yard completions. On the stat sheet, both have 8 yards on the board.

But who was more impressive? That's why when you evaluate developing qbs, you don't look at numbers, you look at their ability to grow and develop an NFL caliber mind and make NFL caliber reads and throws.

I saw that from Sam Bradford. He'll be just fine. He just needs time and players.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
05-23-2012, 07:21 PM
It's amazing how quickly everyone's opinion on the guy has completely changed. Jeez, the guy had a sophomore slump on a terrible team with a new offense. Give the guy a break.

He has all the tools, and I saw NFL caliber reads and throws. One thing that most ppl don't pay attention to is, when you're evaluating a developing qb, forget the numbers. Throw the numbers out the window.

His development depends on his ability to read defenses, adjust plays, and make NFL throws.

I'll give you a scenario. 2 QBs who are currently developing both complete a 8 yard pass.

QB A does a hard count. From the hard count, he sees that it's a 4 man rush, and reads Cover 3 pre-snap based on the defense's formation, and the way the DBs dropped their hips after the hard count.

QB A motions his X inside, who's running an 8 yard curl, and hikes the ball, where the X wr runs his curl in the open hole in the zone, QB A looks off the safety to open up that hole more, than goes back to the X WR and completes the 8 yard pass.

Now QB B's scenario:

QB B has a 1 step drop quick slant called. He has 2 reads, the 1 step quick slant to his Z, and if that's covered, a check down to his RB in the flat. No need to read the defense, he's making college level progression type of reads. He hikes the ball, no change in protections, no change to the play, he just hikes it, his Z gets open, he hits his Z for 8 yards.

Now look at those 2 qbs. Both made 8 yard completions. On the stat sheet, both have 8 yards on the board.

But who was more impressive? That's why when you evaluate developing qbs, you don't look at numbers, you look at their ability to grow and develop an NFL caliber mind and make NFL caliber reads and throws.

I saw that from Sam Bradford. He'll be just fine. He just needs time and players.
Hes been slumping since the second half of his rookie season.

bigbluedefense
05-23-2012, 07:36 PM
Hes been slumping since the second half of his rookie season.

He's not a 4 year veteran. He's played 2 years, that's fine. And with awful talent around him.

All of a sudden everyone is acting like Danny Amendola was Wes Welker. Give me a break.

The guy has an awful OL and no WRs. And a washed up RB who's injured half the time.

Now in year 3, if we see no development, then yes we can start worrying. But I think it's way too early to panic. Give the guy a fair chance, he's shown flashes of brilliance, he just needs to show consistency, which will happen with time and improved talent around him.

49ersfan_87
05-23-2012, 07:42 PM
He's not a 4 year veteran. He's played 2 years, that's fine. And with awful talent around him.

All of a sudden everyone is acting like Danny Amendola was Wes Welker. Give me a break.

The guy has an awful OL and no WRs. And a washed up RB who's injured half the time.

Now in year 3, if we see no development, then yes we can start worrying. But I think it's way too early to panic. Give the guy a fair chance, he's shown flashes of brilliance, he just needs to show consistency, which will happen with time and improved talent around him.

Still has a lot of the same players around him. His most proven receivers are Amendola, Salas, and Steve Smith. Still the same OL and TE's. An underwhelming pro group, and his receivers all fit the same kind of mold anyway (slot WR). Can Brian Quick and Chris Givens make a substantial rookie impact? Plus, Brian Schottenheimer is his OC, and he was never anything special with the Jets either.

bigbluedefense
05-23-2012, 07:45 PM
Still has a lot of the same players around him. His most proven receivers are Amendola, Salas, and Steve Smith. Still the same OL and TE's. An underwhelming pro group, and his receivers all fit the same kind of mold anyway (slot WR). Can Brian Quick and Chris Givens make a substantial rookie impact? Plus, Brian Schottenheimer is his OC, and he was never anything special with the Jets either.

Yeah the talent is still awful, they better hope that Quick and Givens can bring something to the table immediately. I do think that losing Amendola hurt him a lot too last year even though I feel Danny is overrated. He still was a security valve for him.

I think if Smith is healthy, and if Amendola can work the slot, and if Quick can provide some deep ability he has some hope. That OL is still awful though, and that's going to be a problem.

I think Schottenheimer isn't a great OC, but I also think he was a scapegoat in NYJ. Every fanbase hates their OC. Like literally 2 or 3 fanbases like their OCs, and that's it. Players make plays. Sometimes we give the OC a little too much grief.

And that's coming from a guy who has Kevin Gilbride as the OC of his team. But I learned a couple of years ago my lesson, as much as we rag on coordinators, at the end of the day, players have to play.

stlouisfan37
05-23-2012, 09:10 PM
Still has a lot of the same players around him. His most proven receivers are Amendola, Salas, and Steve Smith. Still the same OL and TE's. An underwhelming pro group, and his receivers all fit the same kind of mold anyway (slot WR). Can Brian Quick and Chris Givens make a substantial rookie impact? Plus, Brian Schottenheimer is his OC, and he was never anything special with the Jets either.

There will be a very different look about the Rams this season than in the past. They brought in Scott Wells to anchor the middle. They drafted Rokevious Watkins who they really like as a big mauling guard. They signed Joe Long, who is Jake Long's little brother, as a project. They also signed two or three others as depth players. They have a new line coach in Paul Boudreau, who has coached four 10,000 yard rushers.

As for the receiving corps, they did not bring in a high dollar free agent like a lot of people said they needed to. Instead, they signed Steve Smith and drafted two very talented players in Quick and Givens. They hired Ray Sherman as ther WR coach. Sherman is known for sending receivers to the Pro Bowl, as well as taking very average guys and getting a lot of production from them. For the first time in several years there will actually be a fight to make this team as a receiver. I also see someone from the group of Salas/Pettis/Alexander/Gibson breaking out finally. While I don't see the group as one of the league's most talented, we did get more talented this year and I think you will see marked improvement.

Jackson is getting short in the tooth, there's no denying that. But they drafted Isaiah Pead to finally give him an adequate backup. I think we improve the run game as well.

One area on offense that I am really excited about is the tight ends. Lance Kendricks is a really good player who was kind of left out of the offense last year. Rob Boras is the new TE coach, and it was under his tutelage that Marcedes Lewis (Jacksonville) and Greg Olsen (Chicago) had their best Pro Bowl seasons. As a team the Rams' TE's caught 46 passes for 508 yards and no touchdowns. By comparison, Fisher's teams his last 5 seasons in Tennessee averaged 74/750/3.4. So I see that being an area of improvement as well.

Overall, I see this season as one of growth as a team. I think we throw for 3400 yards and run for 1800. That would put us at about 22nd in the league in total offense. I also think we score another 7 points a game, which would get us closer to the pack. In the end, I think we win 6 games, maybe 7, and go into next offseason as a team that people talk about having made decent strides. And we walk into the draft with two top-15 picks.

49ersfan_87
05-24-2012, 02:43 PM
Still a very underwhelming offensive supporting cast, and an underwhelming OC to boot too. I'm just saying if you're going to use it as a reason for Bradford not performing, chances are offensively it's not going to change much this year. I see the Rams improving this year though, making big strides on defense and running a safe, ground attack and ball control style of offense. Just not sure if the offensive skill positions outside the RB's and maybe Kendricks are going to flourish this year.

stlouisfan37
05-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Still a very underwhelming offensive supporting cast, and an underwhelming OC to boot too. I'm just saying if you're going to use it as a reason for Bradford not performing, chances are offensively it's not going to change much this year. I see the Rams improving this year though, making big strides on defense and running a safe, ground attack and ball control style of offense. Just not sure if the offensive skill positions outside the RB's and maybe Kendricks are going to flourish this year.

I hear ya, and I totally get what you are saying. It would be foolish to suggest that they will suddenly be among the league's top passing teams.

What I would like to see is some cohesion begin to develop on the offensive line, a strong running game that includes contributions from Pead and whoever else they keep, and the development of some chemistry between Bradford and his receivers besides Amendola. I don't think that is out of reach, and I think it would be a nice building block for the future.