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View Full Version : D.J. Fluker, OT, Alabama


Matthew Jones
05-24-2012, 10:27 PM
Last year I scouted D.J. Fluker in order to gain some insight into him as a potential 2012 NFL Draft entrant but was mostly unimpressed; Fluker got a lot of early first-round hype midway through last season but his passive demeanor, his lack of balance, and his inability to sustain blocks raised question marks. Recently I re-watched the BCS National Championship Game and Fluker appears to have made strides from my previous viewing. Fluker probably doesn't deserve to be drafted in the first round and many of my prior concerns remain unaddressed but his overall size and his athleticism should interest teams looking for a developmental offensive tackle prospect; Fluker now ranks among my top offensive tackle prospects after coming away seriously disappointed in Louisiana State left tackle Chris Faulk. Based on what I've seen I'd grade Fluker as a second-round pick. Take a look at Alabama's offensive snaps from the championship game below and share your opinions on Fluker, who lines up at right tackle:

zttXkYBnGzQ

Besides Fluker, Alabama's primary prospects for the 2013 NFL Draft are RB Eddie Lacy (42), TE Michael Williams (89), LT Barrett Jones (75), and LG Chance Warmack (65.) LSU's primary prospects in 2013 are DT Josh Downs (77), DT Bennie Logan (93), DE Barkevious Mingo (49), DE Sam Montgomery (99), CB Tyrann Mathieu (7), and FS Eric Reid (1.)

Big Bird
05-25-2012, 12:04 PM
I've never been a fan of Fluker. Just as overrated as Andre Smith was coming out. Neither Fluker or Faulk belong 1st round. They are all hype.

The Texas A&M tackles are the ones who deserve some love.

Matthew Jones
05-25-2012, 12:20 PM
I've never been a Fluker. Just as overrated as Andre Smith was coming out. Neither Fluker or Faulk belong 1st round. They are all hype.

The Texas A&M tackles are the ones who deserve some love.

I agree that Fluker and Faulk are overrated and from what I've seen Luke Joeckel seems like a quality left tackle, but Andre Smith wasn't overrated as a prospect, he just had a high bust rate because of his conditioning. He was dominant on the field in college.

Razor
05-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Besides Fluker, Alabama's primary prospects for the 2013 NFL Draft are RB Eddie Lacy (42), TE Michael Williams (89), LT Barrett Jones (75), and LG Chance Warmack (65.) LSU's primary prospects in 2013 are DT Josh Downs (77), DT Bennie Logan (93), DE Barkevious Mingo (49), DE Sam Montgomery (99), CB Tyrann Mathieu (7), and FS Eric Reid (1.)


No Jesse Williams?

Anywho, I agree with your assessment of Fluker: Great potential, size and athleticism, but he just hasn't put it together. I can't put him in the first right now.

Matthew Jones
05-25-2012, 03:27 PM
No Jesse Williams?

Anywho, I agree with your assessment of Fluker: Great potential, size and athleticism, but he just hasn't put it together. I can't put him in the first right now.

I didn't list Williams because he's not in that video.

SenorGato
05-25-2012, 08:57 PM
Michael Williams is a badass TE prospect.

Victory X
05-29-2012, 04:14 AM
I would drag my balls through a mile of broken glass and salt for the Bills to get this guy

K Train
05-29-2012, 12:52 PM
I've never been a fan of Fluker. Just as overrated as Andre Smith was coming out. Neither Fluker or Faulk belong 1st round. They are all hype.

The Texas A&M tackles are the ones who deserve some love.

andre smith was incredible in college, pure man beast. he just turned into a fatass

Big Bird
05-29-2012, 02:14 PM
andre smith was incredible in college, pure man beast. he just turned into a fatass
He was always a fatass and honestly, overrated as a college player. People hyped him as a top 5 guy. He never played that good, and with the work ethic issues, he belonged in the 2nd.

K Train
05-29-2012, 03:12 PM
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS478US478&authuser=0&biw=1280&bih=890&tbm=isch&tbnid=9jfkobSmoLQHhM:&imgrefurl=http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2009/02/25-random-things-about-me-andre-smith.html&docid=v3TMNNjefObWeM&imgurl=http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/andre-smith.jpg&w=510&h=350&ei=Xi3FT4C5HYnq0gHU_5HSCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=186&vpy=96&dur=445&hovh=186&hovw=271&tx=164&ty=87&sig=106897975031752025704&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=202&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:139

this andre smith was a monster

the one we see today is a better guard and pretty tubby

Caulibflower
05-29-2012, 03:41 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/andre-smith.jpg

this andre smith was a monster

the one we see today is a better guard and pretty tubby

Fixed it for you. Half the problem is that when people picture Andre Smith, they think of those chest-hams, and not someone who looks intimidating.

RCAChainGang
06-24-2012, 11:39 PM
Again, MJ thanks for the videos. Really helps with the scouting. I'll check out Fluker later, but I watched Barret Jones.

He seemed to struggle in backpedalling in pass protection at OT. He also didn't sustain blocks in the run as much as I would want. Although when his side was bunched and he took more the role of the guard he seemed to do better. I think he would be better suited as a guard in the NFL. As an OT he would lose balance dealing with the speed off the edge and I saw some holding that he got away with.

I don't think I would take Barrret Jones in the first. More of a second round prospect. Opinions?

BroKing
07-08-2012, 09:10 PM
I've never been a fan of Fluker. Just as overrated as Andre Smith was coming out.

Andre Smith was ******* incredible in college. Please refrain from speaking on matters you know nothing of.

Matthew Jones
07-08-2012, 09:13 PM
Again, MJ thanks for the videos. Really helps with the scouting. I'll check out Fluker later, but I watched Barret Jones.

He seemed to struggle in backpedalling in pass protection at OT. He also didn't sustain blocks in the run as much as I would want. Although when his side was bunched and he took more the role of the guard he seemed to do better. I think he would be better suited as a guard in the NFL. As an OT he would lose balance dealing with the speed off the edge and I saw some holding that he got away with.

I don't think I would take Barrret Jones in the first. More of a second round prospect. Opinions?

I agree that he's a little bit overrated, mostly in terms of sustaining blocks and driving players back. I like him as a pulling guard and his versatility/character/intangibles are appealing but probably also over-inflate his draft stock. I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the second round, and that may be a better place for him. He's the type of prospect who is easy to fall in love with though.

AntoinCD
11-16-2012, 03:14 AM
I think whoever drafts Fluker needs to be fully aware of his strengths and limitations when they take him and what their expectations are. Make no bones about it, this guy is not going to be a stud pass protector at the next level. He is the definition of a heavy legged waist bender. His kick slide is very choppy and he over extends himself at the waist instead of bending his knees and keeping his body within his base. Look at this pic from the Tennessee game where he gets beaten by speed and can't recover giving up a pressure

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/DJFluker-passpro.png

However, you ask the guy to go into a power scheme and ask him to be a mauling run blocker and you have yourself a player. From the same game this first picture shows where the play starts and who is going to block down on

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/DJFluckerRunset.png

Now see where he ends up on the play

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/DJFlukerRunpro.png

Despite this run only going for 1 yard Fluker has driven his guy (DL Maurice Couch) 6 yards off the ball.

If a team like Arizona or Chicago draft someone like Fluker to solve their pass rush problems then they will be disappointed. However any team who like to run power man locking would be smart to look no further than Fluker. I like his fit in San Diego, but not in the 1st

rawdawg
11-16-2012, 05:54 PM
I like Fluker in Chicago. I agree with your assessment of him for the most part, but I think he can get (and has gotten) better. I think he has a shot to play LT, but he's not going to pass block at a pro bowl level. He has a chance to be adequate though, and has had some success against NFL caliber speed rushers (Mingo, Montgomery, Jarvis Jones, etc). But I also think he could be a near dominant OG for someone. As a Bears fan, I am resigned to the fact that the team likes Webb, and he's done a fine job the last couple weeks...so if they want to put Fluker at LG and let him maul people inside, I'm fine with that too.

JohnCandy
11-16-2012, 06:52 PM
The real question is can Fluker play OG?

Because he is not playing OT in the NFL. Is he too tall to play OG or is he so big at 6'6" 350lbs that he does not need leverage.

This guy is Orlando Franklin, who can play RT, but I think would be a beast at OG.

gpngc
11-16-2012, 06:55 PM
He was always a fatass and honestly, overrated as a college player. People hyped him as a top 5 guy. He never played that good, and with the work ethic issues, he belonged in the 2nd.

He absolutely played that good. He was insane in college.

There were warning signs with him (in terms of becoming a LT worthy of a high pick) but none of them had anything to do with his actual film.

And he's a pretty good RT right now in Cincy anyway.

ph90702
11-16-2012, 07:22 PM
D.J. Fluker is very stiff. Heavy feet as well. Best fit will come in a power running scheme. Can only play one position (RT).

descendency
11-16-2012, 07:31 PM
I've never been a fan of Fluker. Just as overrated as Andre Smith was coming out. Neither Fluker or Faulk belong 1st round. They are all hype.

The Texas A&M tackles are the ones who deserve some love.

Joeckel is a top 5 pick and Matthews is a top 15. I don't really see how much more love you can give them.

If either comes back, it's a mistake.

rawdawg
11-16-2012, 07:32 PM
The real question is can Fluker play OG?

Because he is not playing OT in the NFL. Is he too tall to play OG or is he so big at 6'6" 350lbs that he does not need leverage.

This guy is Orlando Franklin, who can play RT, but I think would be a beast at OG.

He's not too tall to play OG. Eric Steinbach was a pretty good OG in the NFL for almost a decade at 6'6". Faneca and Hutchinson were great OGs both at 6'5". Gene Upshaw 6'5". Bruce Matthews 6'5". Even Jonathan Ogden played his rookie year at LG at 6'8-6'9" ish. He's also not 350lbs. He's closer to 330-335. And weight doesn't appear to be an issue for him. Franklin is a good comparison, but I think Fluker's better, and I was a big Franklin fan.

I don't see why Fluker couldn't play OT in the NFL. He's likely going to be a RT, but I could see a team giving him a shot at LT and him being passable there. If Cordy Glenn can play LT, Fluker certainly can.

descendency
11-16-2012, 07:33 PM
I don't know what you guys are talking about... Andre Smith demolished people in the run game and was a serviceable pass blocker.

TACKLE
11-16-2012, 07:45 PM
He's not too tall to play OG. Eric Steinbach was a pretty good OG in the NFL for almost a decade at 6'6". Faneca and Hutchinson were great OGs both at 6'5". Gene Upshaw 6'5". Bruce Matthews 6'5". Even Jonathan Ogden played his rookie year at LG at 6'8-6'9" ish. He's also not 350lbs. He's closer to 330-335. And weight doesn't appear to be an issue for him. Franklin is a good comparison, but I think Fluker's better, and I was a big Franklin fan.

I don't see why Fluker couldn't play OT in the NFL. He's likely going to be a RT, but I could see a team giving him a shot at LT and him being passable there. If Cordy Glenn can play LT, Fluker certainly can.

I agree with pretty much everything in this post. Cordy's success outside definitely has me thinking Fluker can play there too. That fact that with the exception of one or two plays, Mingo really didn't give him problems with his speed and he did a nice job vs. Damontre Moore from what I saw. I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. He's not a big, sloppy, overweight athlete, he's just a massive human being. He is somewhat heavy-footed but I think he's got decent agility and rawdawg mentioned, every bit the athlete Orlando Franklin is. He displays surprising flexibility for a guy as big as he is. I wouldn't be scared to try him out at tackle. He's incredibly powerful and one of the better run blockers in college football in the last couple of years. I wouldn't be scared to give him a shot at OT but at the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could be an elite guard in the NFL either.


sidebar: Bama's O-Line is so ridiculous. You know it's a good group when Barrett Jones is your worst starter.

JohnCandy
11-16-2012, 10:21 PM
I think Cordy Glenn moved better against SEC guys than Fluker does against those guys.

I think LG on a power team like the Bears, Ravens or Steelers would be the best fit for him and would cover up his weakness in pass protection and showcase his strengths in the run game.

Iamcanadian
11-17-2012, 02:33 AM
Flucker can still get drafted very late in round 1. He'll play RT in the pros or possibly OG. He is not a LT prospect. the Texas A&M OT's are both far better prospects and can both play LT. Joeckel is a top 5 prospect while Matthews is a top 10 prospect.
Chance Warmack is the star of the Alabama OL and probably will go top 10. Jones is next in line, a top 20 as an OC/OG.

rawdawg
11-17-2012, 08:34 AM
Flucker can still get drafted very late in round 1. He'll play RT in the pros or possibly OG. He is not a LT prospect. the Texas A&M OT's are both far better prospects and can both play LT. Joeckel is a top 5 prospect while Matthews is a top 10 prospect.
Chance Warmack is the star of the Alabama OL and probably will go top 10. Jones is next in line, a top 20 as an OC/OG.

I think Barrett Jones will wind up in the Jonathan Martin, Stefan Wisnewski range in the mid-2nd round. He's solid, but nothing more. Guys like Joeckel, Matthews, Warmack, and maybe even Fluker will get drafted ahead of Jones because he's not a special player. The team that drafts him will probably get 8-10 years of above average interior OL play from him, but the guys I mentioned all have probowl potential. And guys with that type of potential (realized or not yet) tend to go higher.

If the aTm boys, Fluker, and Lewan all come out, Barrett Jones may 8th or 9th OL off the board (also behind Warmack, Cooper, Thomas, and Fisher).

AntoinCD
11-17-2012, 10:58 AM
I think Barrett Jones will wind up in the Jonathan Martin, Stefan Wisnewski range in the mid-2nd round. He's solid, but nothing more. Guys like Joeckel, Matthews, Warmack, and maybe even Fluker will get drafted ahead of Jones because he's not a special player. The team that drafts him will probably get 8-10 years of above average interior OL play from him, but the guys I mentioned all have probowl potential. And guys with that type of potential (realized or not yet) tend to go higher.

If the aTm boys, Fluker, and Lewan all come out, Barrett Jones may 8th or 9th OL off the board (also behind Warmack, Cooper, Thomas, and Fisher).

I think the thing with this year's draft though is it's very strong in trenches. You could see up to 5 OTs and 3/4 interior o linemen go in the first. Likewise you could have as many as 7/8 DEs and 5 DTs go in the first. This draft isn't very strong at the top with QBs and skill positions.

Realistically you could have only 3 QBs, 2 WRs, 0 RBs, 3 CBs, 0 safeties, 1 TE and 3 LBs in the first too. Each draft is relative to itself, so if the talent isn't there at other positions then guys playing at positions like OG and OC will inevitbaly get pushed up.

descendency
11-17-2012, 11:23 AM
After watching more of Barrett Jones, I'm 99% sure he's going to fall alot father than people expect.

He struggled with the speed A&M gave him. It lead to TFL, holding penalties, and interior of the pocket was basically collapsed on numerous plays.

NFL evaluators are going to continue wondering if he has the athleticism to play in the NFL.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-17-2012, 11:48 AM
There's a reason he's played every position on the line. If he was actually good he'd have stuck at one of the tackle spots

Babylon
11-17-2012, 11:53 AM
There's a reason he's played every position on the line. If he was actually good he'd have stuck at one of the tackle spots

So he's really a guard by trade but he should have stuck at tackle, that makes no sense to me.

AntoinCD
11-17-2012, 11:59 AM
So he's really a guard by trade but he should have stuck at tackle, that makes no sense to me.

Exactly, especially considering you have such a big, mauling guy like Fluker at the right tackle position and maybe the best of 'Bama's linemen Kouandjio at left tackle. I'm not sure I love Jones as a OC in the NFL but I think he can be a very good OG who can play spot duty at any positon if needed. That sort of versatility on the interior is a much desired trait

JohnCandy
11-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Does Fluker have a little Cordy Glenn in him?

Last year everyone was saying that Glenn was too big, too slow and not athletic anough to play LT.

He has been very good at LT for the Bills this season.

Are we alll going to be saying the same thing about Fluker at this time next year.

rawdawg
11-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Does Fluker have a little Cordy Glenn in him?

Last year everyone was saying that Glenn was too big, too slow and not athletic anough to play LT.

He has been very good at LT for the Bills this season.

Are we alll going to be saying the same thing about Fluker at this time next year.

I literally HATED Glenn before the Senior Bowl last year. He really showed me a lot at LT then. Fluker won't be in the Senior Bowl, but if he comes out, he'll get to show his athleticism at the combine. Whether that's enough for teams to give him a shot at LT? I don't know. I do think Glenn did show to teams he could play LT during SB week.

But at this point, I'd take Fluker late 1st and let his ability and the depth chart dictate where he'll play. I could see him at any of LT, RT, or LG starting and playing well as a rookie. If you're a team like the Bears, you could use him at any of those positions (especially if Carimi takes to RG well the next 5-9 games).

JohnCandy
11-30-2012, 09:14 PM
Has he really been that bad in pass protection he looked fine against Michigan with the exception of one inside move.

People bash him for no feet but I see them and they are not that bad.

And like Glenn there is 0 chance that he gets bull rushed.

rawdawg
12-01-2012, 10:58 AM
Has he really been that bad in pass protection he looked fine against Michigan with the exception of one inside move.

People bash him for no feet but I see them and they are not that bad.

And like Glenn there is 0 chance that he gets bull rushed.

He does have a few plays here and there where he gets beat by speed rushers. But those plays are getting fewer and further between. And his level of competition has been everything you can ask for. Did a great job vs. LSUs two pass rushers, has played against guys like Demontre Moore, Melvin Ingram, Jarvis Jones, Lemonier, Chris Smith, Jake Bequette, etc. I don't remember any of those guys dominating him or anything close to it.

AntoinCD
12-01-2012, 11:11 AM
I think the hardest thing to do when evaluating players in college is to look past how they "performed" in games. Often times guys will dominate others but it doesn't mean their skills will transfer to the NFL. Take the QB position as an example. Every year there are guys who put up video game numbers but simply aren't NFL caliber players. I'm not saying Fluker can be compared to that at OT but just because he hasn't been dominated doesn't mean he can turn that into success as a pro, particularly on the left side. I like his potential. You can't teach size and he has it in spades. However when you watch him play you see he has some flaws, flaws which experienced NFL linemen will take advantage of week in, week out. Glenn was such a big guy, however he had pretty light feet. Fluker is a plodder. I think he has a shot to be a very good RT in the right scheme, however I would only put him on the left hand side if injuries dictated it. Overall though I believe his highest upside is at RG

Don Vito
12-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Fluker is a freak. I agree that he isn't neccesarily "light on his feet", but he is going to frighten people in the pre-draft process. He has mammoth size but he carries his weight way better than people think. Absolutely freakish strength but is way more athletic than people give him credit for. He will not show up looking like Andre Smith, he may not strike a lot of people as a prototypical LT and I understand why but I honestly think he could play there. RT is his best fit without question though. He can pass block and has all of the tools to be succesful at it in the pros, but he will be a dominant run blocker no questions asked. He is a freak and is only going to get better.

JohnCandy
12-01-2012, 11:40 AM
I can name a ton of really good LTs in the NFL who were to big an plodding to play the position.

Andrew Whitworth
Max Starks
Cordy Glenn
Roger Saffold
Donald Penn

There has to be something said for being so much stronger than the guy you are playing against.

ph90702
12-01-2012, 01:28 PM
I literally HATED Glenn before the Senior Bowl last year. He really showed me a lot at LT then. Fluker won't be in the Senior Bowl, but if he comes out, he'll get to show his athleticism at the combine. Whether that's enough for teams to give him a shot at LT? I don't know. I do think Glenn did show to teams he could play LT during SB week.

But at this point, I'd take Fluker late 1st and let his ability and the depth chart dictate where he'll play. I could see him at any of LT, RT, or LG starting and playing well as a rookie. If you're a team like the Bears, you could use him at any of those positions (especially if Carimi takes to RG well the next 5-9 games).

It makes little sense to me that there isn't a place for juniors and redshirt sophomores to showcase their skills against each other.

rawdawg
12-01-2012, 05:32 PM
Is there really a big difference between LT and RT at this point? This is a passing league. Most teams have multiple pass rushing options. Even if they don't, the star rusher for every team flips sides. If Fluker has trouble with the speed rush at RT, teams will find out and put a speed rusher over him every play.

Fluker isn't light on his feet, but he positions himself pretty well, has very long arms, and like has been said is strong as an ox.

TACKLE
12-01-2012, 05:41 PM
Is there really a big difference between LT and RT at this point? This is a passing league. Most teams have multiple pass rushing options. Even if they don't, the star rusher for every team flips sides. If Fluker has trouble with the speed rush at RT, teams will find out and put a speed rusher over him every play.

Fluker isn't light on his feet, but he positions himself pretty well, has very long arms, and like has been said is strong as an ox.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think the value of the big, strong RT is that he affects how the QB feels frontside pressure and because of that you don't want that guy getting bullrushed easily. For that reason alone, Fluker might have more value on the rightside.

rawdawg
12-01-2012, 06:14 PM
I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think the value of the big, strong RT is that he affects how the QB feels frontside pressure and because of that you don't want that guy getting bullrushed easily. For that reason alone, Fluker might have more value on the rightside.

Yeah, definitely value is as a RT. And like I've said, I think he can be a good OG. But I also think he can play LT if necessary.

stl705
12-01-2012, 06:24 PM
Side note - but Barrett Jones has not looked impressive at all. For a guy whose got all the size you could want from a Center, he's been getting no leverage, standing almost straight up that last play. There are times when you use angles and body position, and other times when you have to fire off low and use your hands. Looks like he's just trying to be a wall and not push anybody backwards.

Bama's line as a whole is straight bliss from a running back's perspective though.


Fluker has looked ok, but make no mistake... Bama is going left.. and they don't care who knows it. I'd grade Fluker mid-2nd round, but i doubt he lasts past the early 2nd. I think his footwork has been pretty good this game, but i haven't focused on him every play.

JohnCandy
12-02-2012, 12:20 AM
I am a fan of his.

But he looked very OGish today. He just did not control the edge in the passing game today.

JohnCandy
01-16-2013, 02:13 PM
I thought Fluker played very well late in the season.

He dominated Stephon Tuitt in the National Championship game and many speak of him as a 1st round pick.

He is an ELITE athlete for a man at 6'6" 350lbs.

I think he can play RT.

But I think he could be a Carl Nicks type of OG. You cannot teach a man to be this big and nasty.

Babylon
01-16-2013, 02:25 PM
I thought Fluker played very well late in the season.

He dominated Stephon Tuitt in the National Championship game and many speak of him as a 1st round pick.

He is an ELITE athlete for a man at 6'6" 350lbs.

I think he can play RT.

But I think he could be a Carl Nicks type of OG. You cannot teach a man to be this big and nasty.

Definitely benefits from Matthews and Lewan staying in school but regardless i like him a lot. As you mentioned being big and nasty isn't a bad combination. My guess is he could get some interest from where teams like the Rams, Chargers and Bears are picking.

JohnCandy
01-16-2013, 05:36 PM
I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.

JohnCandy
01-16-2013, 05:37 PM
I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.

JohnCandy
01-16-2013, 05:37 PM
I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.

Cigaro
01-16-2013, 05:49 PM
So JohnCandy, do you think the Bears will look at him at LG?

Iamcanadian
01-16-2013, 11:15 PM
Fluker will be drafted to play RT, he is no where near the athlete that Glenn was and completely lacks the feet for the LT position. He'll go late 1st or early second because RT's don't get drafted too early.
Could he play OG, yes, but he has little experience playing there and may take a year or 2 to reach even average production. His agent will also resist the move because OG's make less money than OT's including RT's.

CrossOfDeath
01-17-2013, 12:05 PM
I have focused soley on pass rushers this season but many times a guy I was watching was playing Alabama. D.J. Fluker is one of the worst OTs I have watched this season. I think Bobbie Massie was better than him last year and Massie fell to the 4th. Fluker may not fall that far because this is a weaker class, but I don't think anyone is going to get a good quality starter out of him.

ph90702
01-17-2013, 08:26 PM
After watching more of Barrett Jones, I'm 99% sure he's going to fall alot father than people expect.

He struggled with the speed A&M gave him. It lead to TFL, holding penalties, and interior of the pocket was basically collapsed on numerous plays.

NFL evaluators are going to continue wondering if he has the athleticism to play in the NFL.

Jeff Saturday isn't a great athlete, and he's had a nice career. Also, Barrett Jones is very intelligent.

JohnCandy
01-20-2013, 01:16 PM
I think you are seeing this more and more often in the NFL. I call it the Saints method of drafting big, physical nasty OTs and moving them to OG. Like Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks and Kelechi Osemele come to mind.

Fluker to me is a more battle tested, SEC, version of Kelechi Osemele who was really good for the Ravens at RT and LG and if we re-drafted would go in the 1st round.

Sometimes these guys even make it at OT, Cordy Glenn and Orlando Franklin.

JohnCandy
01-20-2013, 01:18 PM
I have focused soley on pass rushers this season but many times a guy I was watching was playing Alabama. D.J. Fluker is one of the worst OTs I have watched this season. I think Bobbie Massie was better than him last year and Massie fell to the 4th. Fluker may not fall that far because this is a weaker class, but I don't think anyone is going to get a good quality starter out of him.



"I thought even in pass protection this year he did a heck of a job," Kiper Jr. said. "That was the big question mark with him. Got very incredibly long arms, physical, tough player. I thought he held up a lot better in pass protection."

Kiper Jr. ranks Fluker as the No. 1 right tackle available in the 2013 NFL Draft. In his latest mock draft, he has Fluker landing with the St. Louis Rams at No. 22.

Gil Brandt of NFL.com projected Fluker to go 13th overall to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/01/mel_kiper_jr_alabamas_dj_fluke.html

JRTPlaya21
01-20-2013, 01:22 PM
Lol Bobby Massie.

bigbuc
01-20-2013, 01:27 PM
Lol Bobby Massie.

The guy started to get it late in the season.

JohnCandy
01-20-2013, 01:28 PM
Lol Bobby Massie.


I am guessing you are a Bama fan?

What is your opinion of Fluker?

JRTPlaya21
01-20-2013, 02:01 PM
Not quite as nimble on his feet as some would want in a right tackle but against most of the top speed rushers he faced this year he did quite well. I think wherever he ends up he will be a serviceable lineman for the next decade. Very effective in the run game and with the right coaching I think big Fluker could be a stud in the pass pro as well.

Ozzy
01-20-2013, 04:53 PM
I don't see why all this hate on DJ Fluker, kid has been an NFL prospect since his redshirt freshman year. He can physically impose his will on defensive lineman and linebackers, he moves people. Sure might be so so in pass protection but has got way better since he started.

He will be a 1st round pick, no reason to think he cannot have a good pro career. And like many have said as well as myself long time ago, if tackle does not work out guard is a possibility as well.

JohnCandy
01-21-2013, 09:57 AM
@DraftCountdown: #Alabama OT D.J. Fluker is HUGE! 6-4 7/8 and 355 pounds, 36 3/8 Arms, 10 1/4 Hands with a 87 Wingspan!!! WOW!

AntoinCD
01-21-2013, 09:58 AM
If Fluker's calf is ok he could make some money this week. If he can show he can handle pass rushers he could go as high as mid teens

Goon61
01-21-2013, 05:34 PM
If I was a scout I would be drooling over Fluker right now and re watching tape. That kind of size just doesn't come around too often.

I hope no one compares him to Cordy Glenn as Glenn was a great athlete.

Also if I was a scout my team would probably draft him and then he would just totally let himself go and he would suck because he has no quickness

JohnCandy
01-21-2013, 05:36 PM
I really hope that if he practices that he gets some reps at OG.

Monomach
01-21-2013, 05:42 PM
I think you are seeing this more and more often in the NFL. I call it the Saints method of drafting big, physical nasty OTs and moving them to OG. Like Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks and Kelechi Osemele come to mind.

Fluker to me is a more battle tested, SEC, version of Kelechi Osemele who was really good for the Ravens at RT and LG and if we re-drafted would go in the 1st round.

Sometimes these guys even make it at OT, Cordy Glenn and Orlando Franklin.

I don't think you get to name it since it's been happening in the entire time that the NFL has existed. We're not seeing more and more of it. It's always been the case. Most NFL guards were big, physical tackles at some point who were converted because they didn't have the quickness or footwork for the outside. The Saints just had two success stories at the same time, so you finally noticed it. ;)

energizerbunny
01-21-2013, 07:03 PM
I don't think you get to name it since it's been happening in the entire time that the NFL has existed. We're not seeing more and more of it. It's always been the case. Most NFL guards were big, physical tackles at some point who were converted because they didn't have the quickness or footwork for the outside. The Saints just had two success stories at the same time, so you finally noticed it. ;)

While that may be true in some cases, the reason many guys get moved inside is more for a lack of length.

The thing that jumps off the screen when watching Fluker is how nasty he is, I would venture to say you won't find many guys that have the desire to wipe his man on the stat sheet like he does.

Technically he has his deficiencies, 1st off he does not play with the best balance, which is easily correctable especially with such a large base as he has.

His hand placement is inconsistent, but again a lot of that has to do with the balance issue.

I think you try to project him as a guard to be honest (If you value LG more than RT), he isn't the athlete Iupati is in space, but I think he is stronger at the point that him. His length and ability to brawl in a phone booth would do wonders at LG with all these hybrid 30 fronts bringing their 5 tech's in on the guards on passing situations to exploit mismatches (i.e. JJ Watt).

My last thought on him would be that is going to run better than a lot of people think, he may be a little tight in the calves and ankles but he is no slouch when it comes to movement skills, the ability is clearly there.

JohnCandy
01-21-2013, 07:14 PM
While that may be true in some cases, the reason many guys get moved inside is more for a lack of length.

The thing that jumps off the screen when watching Fluker is how nasty he is, I would venture to say you won't find many guys that have the desire to wipe his man on the stat sheet like he does.

Technically he has his deficiencies, 1st off he does not play with the best balance, which is easily correctable especially with such a large base as he has.

His hand placement is inconsistent, but again a lot of that has to do with the balance issue.

I think you try to project him as a guard to be honest (If you value LG more than RT), he isn't the athlete Iupati is in space, but I think he is stronger at the point that him. His length and ability to brawl in a phone booth would do wonders at LG with all these hybrid 30 fronts bringing their 5 tech's in on the guards on passing situations to exploit mismatches (i.e. JJ Watt).

My last thought on him would be that is going to run better than a lot of people think, he may be a little tight in the calves and ankles but he is no slouch when it comes to movement skills, the ability is clearly there.

I think he is going to blow up the combine.

I think he is the most powerful player we have seen in the draft process maybe ever.

In the phone booth when he does not need to re-direct, when he just has to punch, grab and sit he could be awesome.

energizerbunny
01-21-2013, 07:26 PM
I think he is going to blow up the combine.

I think he is the most powerful player we have seen in the draft process maybe ever.

In the phone booth when he does not need to re-direct, when he just has to punch, grab and sit he could be awesome.

Thats why I think if he can move inside he could potentially be a better Guard than Warmack. Given a power blocking scheme.

JohnCandy
01-21-2013, 07:30 PM
Thats why I think if he can move inside he could potentially be a better Guard than Warmack. Given a power blocking scheme.

The biggest problems OGs have is getting bull rushed and allowing the pocket to collapse.

Good luck bull rushing this guy.

Abaddon
01-22-2013, 03:09 AM
Thats why I think if he can move inside he could potentially be a better Guard than Warmack. Given a power blocking scheme.

Slooow down there, Tex.

Iamcanadian
01-22-2013, 10:33 AM
I think he needs to lose about 15-20lbs. I could see him dropping to late round 1 or early round 2 if teams question his committment to staying in shape.

JohnCandy
01-22-2013, 11:04 AM
I think he needs to lose about 15-20lbs. I could see him dropping to late round 1 or early round 2 if teams question his committment to staying in shape.

Where is he losing it from?

He looks like he is in really good shape.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=fluker+weigh+in&um=1&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=JGLbYfaGSudCYM:&imgrefurl=http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/01/senior_bowl_weigh-in_nerve-wra.html&docid=jMn6qWQU-TDqRM&imgurl=http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/2013/01/12149140-large.jpg&w=380&h=569&ei=C7n-UOXFNOH0iwKpl4HIAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=464&vpy=90&dur=1343&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=87&ty=118&sig=101214442709345900044&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=103&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:94

Monomach
01-22-2013, 01:39 PM
Where is he losing it from?

He looks like he is in really good shape.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=fluker+weigh+in&um=1&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=JGLbYfaGSudCYM:&imgrefurl=http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/01/senior_bowl_weigh-in_nerve-wra.html&docid=jMn6qWQU-TDqRM&imgurl=http://media.al.com/mobile-press-register/photo/2013/01/12149140-large.jpg&w=380&h=569&ei=C7n-UOXFNOH0iwKpl4HIAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=464&vpy=90&dur=1343&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=87&ty=118&sig=101214442709345900044&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=103&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:94That's just about the healthiest-looking 355 lbs ever.

AntoinCD
01-22-2013, 02:06 PM
Yeah if Fluker runs with his top off you aren't going to see a titty bounce like you did with Andre Smith. He is so damn solid and thick the whole way through his body.

In the right scheme Fluker could be dominant at either RT or inside at OG. Don't ask him to be a zone guy or anything like that but he could be damn nasty in a power blocking front.

Big_Pete
01-23-2013, 05:09 AM
Fluker will be drafted to play RT, he is no where near the athlete that Glenn was and completely lacks the feet for the LT position. He'll go late 1st or early second because RT's don't get drafted too early.
Could he play OG, yes, but he has little experience playing there and may take a year or 2 to reach even average production. His agent will also resist the move because OG's make less money than OT's including RT's.

I don't buy that at all

Fluker will get paid based on where he gets drafted just like any other rookie.

And Fluker will play wherever his NFL team wants him to play.

Good Right Tackles get drafted in the same kind of area as good Guard prospects. Teams will play him wherever they need him.

All this can change after 3-4 seasons when he becomes eligible for free agency, but until then neither Fluker or his agent will have much choice in his career options.

regoob2
01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
He really seems to be a Carl Nicks clone.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 11:22 AM
To me what really makes him stand apart from other big men is that he is just mean.

Every peice of film that I watch of him he is trying to pancake guys and it trying to destory them. He works to the whistle which is rare for guys who are 350lbs.

He reminds me of Orlando Franklin who has been very goot at RT for the Broncos.

FUNBUNCHER
01-23-2013, 11:34 AM
I wonder if Fluker's quickness would improve if he lost 20#???
When you're 355#, you can lose some poundage and still be a massive specimen.

I think FLuker at 330# would be more than adequate in pass pro, probably better than that.

I can't remember the last time I saw an OT with that bodytype. He looks like a small Hulk.

energizerbunny
01-23-2013, 11:48 AM
To me what really makes him stand apart from other big men is that he is just mean.

Every peice of film that I watch of him he is trying to pancake guys and it trying to destory them. He works to the whistle which is rare for guys who are 350lbs.

He reminds me of Orlando Franklin who has been very goot at RT for the Broncos.

You hit the nail on the head, rarely if ever do you see a guy that big play that nasty.

Typically the bigger bodies are more teddy-bear like in their demeanor.

Thats the main reason I can see him being extremely good in the pros.

regoob2
01-23-2013, 12:48 PM
You hit the nail on the head, rarely if ever do you see a guy that big play that nasty.

Typically the bigger bodies are more teddy-bear like in their demeanor.

Thats the main reason I can see him being extremely good in the pros.
Herman Johnson was the poster child for that.

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Do you really think some team will draft him as a Guard? I have a hard time seeing that. I think he would make one hell of a Guard, but I think more that teams would want him at tackle.

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 01:06 PM
Do you really think some team will draft him as a Guard? I have a hard time seeing that. I think he would make one hell of a Guard, but I think more that teams would want him at tackle.

Yeah he isn't being drafted as a OG. He will be taken to play OT, in fact some team may even draft him hoping he can be their LT.

If he plays LT and fails he will be a RT. OG is probably worst case scenario for the team that drafts Fluker

Babylon
01-23-2013, 01:08 PM
Do you really think some team will draft him as a Guard? I have a hard time seeing that. I think he would make one hell of a Guard, but I think more that teams would want him at tackle.

I think in the first you're drafting him as a tackle. If it doesn't work out you kick him inside like a James Carpenter or ever an Alex Boone. For me you don't draft a guy round 1 to switch to another position.

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 01:12 PM
I think in the first you're drafting him as a tackle. If it doesn't work out you kick him inside like a James Carpenter or ever an Alex Boone. For me you don't draft a guy round 1 to switch to another position.

I don't even think it's just about draft position although I agree with what you are saying.

NFL teams are full of egomaniacs. I would bet money that some coach sees Fluker and thinks "hey I bet I could coach this monster of a man up to be a great LT. he has the size, the bulk, the long arms and the nastiness. A little technique on his footwork and he will be a stud".

Now whether or not Fluker can do that is all in the future, but NFL decision makers don't tend to me meek or lacking confidence. I don't think too many guys will go in with the opinion that they can't mould a 6'5 355lb guy who played in the SEC and dominated into a good OT

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 01:14 PM
It is becoming more and more common to draft OTs and play them at OG.

Now granted in the 1st round it does not happen as often, but I could see a team thinking he can be Carl Nicks.

For the Saints and I am assuming the Bears now the LG position is more important than RT.

I think you draft him to fill the more important position on your team. But versatility is not a bad thing.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 01:15 PM
I do have concerns about Fluker at OT, either for that matter, because he gets beat inside by speed a lot.

Now that might be a coaching issue, but I think he struggles to redirect inside.

This will not be as big a problem against bigger DTs.

Babylon
01-23-2013, 01:20 PM
I do have concerns about Fluker at OT, either for that matter, because he gets beat inside by speed a lot.

Now that might be a coaching issue, but I think he struggles to redirect inside.

This will not be as big a problem against bigger DTs.

I like near everything about but like you i have concerns about the footwork to play tackle. If it's apparent that Joeckel, Fisher and Johnson are the first 3 tackles taken then Fluker might drop some and then a team can play around with him a little more. If he plays tackle look for him to lead the league in penalties/personal fouls.

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 01:23 PM
I like near everything about but like you i have concerns about the footwork to play tackle. If it's apparent that Joeckel, Fisher and Johnson are the first 3 tackles taken then Fluker might drop some and then a team can play around with him a little more. If he plays tackle look for him to lead the league in penalties/personal fouls.

I think it all depends. Joeckel is a likely top 5 pick and Fisher could be making himself a lot of money right now at the Senior Bowl, a lot of people now projecting him in the top 10. Then when you see teams Tennessee, San Diego, St Louis, Carolina, Chicago, Indy etc all in need of offensive linemen I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the top 25 picks

PossibleCabbage
01-23-2013, 01:33 PM
In the NFL I think he can be a really good right tackle, honestly.

There's really two ways to be a 10 year starter at RT in the NFL:

1) You don't commit penalties, you never miss assignments, and you don't get beat.
2) About 10% of the time you make a mistake and get beat, but the rest of the time you blow the doors off the guy who you want to block.

Fluker has a real shot at category #2. If you live with the fact that he's not going to win (or draw) every rep, and you mitigate this you can have a darn good RT.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 01:36 PM
I like near everything about but like you i have concerns about the footwork to play tackle. If it's apparent that Joeckel, Fisher and Johnson are the first 3 tackles taken then Fluker might drop some and then a team can play around with him a little more. If he plays tackle look for him to lead the league in penalties/personal fouls.

Things we Know

He is as physically powerful as anyone in the draft in recent memory.

He had every physical trait that we want.

He is a big mean man.

He sturggles to redirect quickly in space.

I do not know why anyone would even waste their time trying him at RT. From what I have described I have drawn up the perfect OG.

Can Fluker play RT and start, sure.

Can Fluker be a dominant OG in the mold of Carl Nicks, yes.

Give me a Pro Bowl OG over a good RT any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

killxswitch
01-23-2013, 01:38 PM
Phil Loadholt had a lot of the same questions and concerns as a prospect and he's been the Vikings starting RT since he was drafted. I don't think it's a waste of time to see if he can handle tackle before moving him to guard. Especially if the team that takes him thinks he's the BPA and doesn't need a guard.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 01:43 PM
People act like RT is a more important position than OG.

Look at the increased importance placed on OGs in the league and in the draft.

I think it is a waste of Fluker's talents to force feed him at RT.

He was born to play OG.

Don Vito
01-23-2013, 01:46 PM
I think some people are underestimating how much of a freak Fluker is. The guy carries his weight waaaay better than most people his size, and he can really move around. He is not a finished product fundamentally but he has every tool you could ask to work with in a lineman and, I know it is cliche, but he has been playing and practicing against the best college football has to offer since his freshman year. People may doubt his best fit at the next level, he has the ability to play LT no question but I think he will at least start out at RT. The dude is a freak of nature though.

FUNBUNCHER
01-23-2013, 01:52 PM
I just think Fluker is a little heavy to have really good lateral quickness for OT.
Great physique as is, but he could stand to lose some weight and improve his mobility.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 01:59 PM
I just think Fluker is a little heavy to have really good lateral quickness for OT.
Great physique as is, but he could stand to lose some weight and improve his mobility.

I don't know if he is too heavy.

I think he just has heavy feet and that is who he is. He does not move laterally really well and and he does not re-direct against speed really well.

Cordy Glenn is another 350lbs. man, but he moved so much better and rarely was beaten clean inside. Put on the Michigan tape and you will see Fluker get beat inside a couple of times by DEs that we are not talking about in a draft forum.

He was built to play OG.

y.f.s.
01-23-2013, 02:00 PM
In the NFL I think he can be a really good right tackle, honestly.

There's really two ways to be a 10 year starter at RT in the NFL:

1) You don't commit penalties, you never miss assignments, and you don't get beat.
2) About 10% of the time you make a mistake and get beat, but the rest of the time you blow the doors off the guy who you want to block.

Fluker has a real shot at category #2. If you live with the fact that he's not going to win (or draw) every rep, and you mitigate this you can have a darn good RT.

Yep. High-variance vs low-variance.

energizerbunny
01-23-2013, 02:07 PM
In the NFL I think he can be a really good right tackle, honestly.

There's really two ways to be a 10 year starter at RT in the NFL:

1) You don't commit penalties, you never miss assignments, and you don't get beat.
2) About 10% of the time you make a mistake and get beat, but the rest of the time you blow the doors off the guy who you want to block.

Fluker has a real shot at category #2. If you live with the fact that he's not going to win (or draw) every rep, and you mitigate this you can have a darn good RT.

The thing is, a lot of the time he gets beat it is correctable stuff. I.E, being too aggressive, lunging or having bad hand placement. Give the guy a little time and he'll stop making those mistakes. Check the improvements he made over his 3 years as a starter.

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 02:09 PM
Yep. High-variance vs low-variance.
I respect your opinion. What do you think of a team drafting Fluker to play Guard?

Been a good discussion so far. Nice thoughts by John Candy and Possible Cabbage.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:10 PM
The thing is, a lot of the time he gets beat it is correctable stuff. I.E, being too aggressive, lunging or having bad hand placement. Give the guy a little time and he'll stop making those mistakes. Check the improvements he made over his 3 years as a starter.

But he does not have great feet and that is always going to be his weakness.

Why not let him play a position that puts him in a position to be the most successful.

RTs are a dime a dozen, take a LT that cannot play the position in the NFL.

Guys who have the size, temprement and power to dominate inside are harder to find.

energizerbunny
01-23-2013, 02:10 PM
I think some people are underestimating how much of a freak Fluker is. The guy carries his weight waaaay better than most people his size, and he can really move around. He is not a finished product fundamentally but he has every tool you could ask to work with in a lineman and, I know it is cliche, but he has been playing and practicing against the best college football has to offer since his freshman year. People may doubt his best fit at the next level, he has the ability to play LT no question but I think he will at least start out at RT. The dude is a freak of nature though.

Not sure he has the body control to be a LT, however with his athleticsm and length I would not be surprised to see someone try to make him one. Especially with the shortage of quality OLineman in the league nowadays, it is very possible someone try him there.

There have been guys that were worse off that have been quality NFL LTs.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:11 PM
What would people's reaction be if he went 20 to the Bears?

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 02:12 PM
What would people's reaction be if he went 20 to the Bears?
It's not a shocking location. What position? Cowboys could even take him at 18. RG or RT? That would be the question.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:15 PM
It's not a shocking location. What position? Cowboys could even take him at 18. RG or RT? That would be the question.

The Bears are going to a Saints type passing and protection game with the hiring of New Orleans OC/OL coach Aaron Kromer.

The main issue the Bears have is that they do not have there version of Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans and they allow a ton of pressure up the middle.

Fluker could be their Carl Nicks at LG.

energizerbunny
01-23-2013, 02:16 PM
But he does not have great feet and that is always going to be his weakness.

Why not let him play a position that puts him in a position to be the most successful.

RTs are a dime a dozen, take a LT that cannot play the position in the NFL.

Guys who have the size, temprement and power to dominate inside are harder to find.

I'll actually agree with that, its probably harder to find a quality LG than RT. Finding a guy who can consistently get movement on 325+ LBs.

You also need more toughness inside, because its a much more physical position and alot more head banging goes on in there.

y.f.s.
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
I respect your opinion. What do you think of a team drafting Fluker to play Guard?

Been a good discussion so far. Nice thoughts by John Candy and Possible Cabbage.

I would probably prefer him at guard, because his weaknesses will be neutralized playing in a phone booth. That said, I think he *can* play RT, and with time could do it at a pretty high level. He's better than Phil Loadholt.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:19 PM
I'll actually agree with that, its probably harder to find a quality LG than RT. Finding a guy who can consistently get movement on 325+ LBs.

You also need more toughness inside, because its a much more physical position and alot more head banging goes on in there.

Watch the Senior Bowl right now and outside of Johnson and Fisher you are watching 10 RTs play football.

If you look at Fluker as an OG he has Iupati type physical skills and ability to physically over power NFL players. I think if you have a guy who can consistently over power 320lbs DTs you play him at OG and allow him to use what god gave him.

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 02:20 PM
I think the whole RT isn't an important position is incorrect in today's NFL. It is based on the old days of run first. The RT would be asked to go against a bigger, more stout DE and get them off the ball. However nowadays players are moved all over the defensive formation. Demarcus Ware doesn't solely rush from the defensive right side. If a team has a weakness anywhere along the line defenses will find a way to exploit it. Aldon Smith absolutely raped Gabe Carimi at RT. That position is of great importance nowadays.

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 02:24 PM
I would probably prefer him at guard, because his weaknesses will be neutralized playing in a phone booth. That said, I think he *can* play RT, and with time could do it at a pretty high level. He's better than Phil Loadholt.
I'm really starting to be convinced... but is this creative forum draft talk or will teams really do it? :)

edit: I might have just thought up the answer to my own question... Cowboys fixed Leonard Davis when they moved him from Tackle to Guard. I can see Fluker similarly used.

energizerbunny
01-23-2013, 02:24 PM
I think the whole RT isn't an important position is incorrect in today's NFL. It is based on the old days of run first. The RT would be asked to go against a bigger, more stout DE and get them off the ball. However nowadays players are moved all over the defensive formation. Demarcus Ware doesn't solely rush from the defensive right side. If a team has a weakness anywhere along the line defenses will find a way to exploit it. Aldon Smith absolutely raped Gabe Carimi at RT. That position is of great importance nowadays.

Your right, but it is easier to schematically give an RT more help in the pass game. Especially with right handed QB.

You have a fraction of the alternatives on the left side that doesn't disrupt the flow of your regular offense.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:26 PM
I think the whole RT isn't an important position is incorrect in today's NFL. It is based on the old days of run first. The RT would be asked to go against a bigger, more stout DE and get them off the ball. However nowadays players are moved all over the defensive formation. Demarcus Ware doesn't solely rush from the defensive right side. If a team has a weakness anywhere along the line defenses will find a way to exploit it. Aldon Smith absolutely raped Gabe Carimi at RT. That position is of great importance nowadays.

The pressure that disrupts QBs more than anything is the pressure up the middle.

Also with the amount of blitzing that happens in todays NFL means your interior players are going 1 on 1 more often.

The great passing attacks/successful teams in the NFL have really good interior OL play,

49ers: Iuapti and Boone
Ravens: Yanda, Osemele
Patriots: Mankins, Connoly

In the Bears case Gabe Carimi sucks. Journeymen John Scott stepped in after that game and stabilized the position.

Good OG play makes OT play easier and allows the QB to step up negating the speed of players like Ware to a degree.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:32 PM
I'm really starting to be convinced... but is this creative forum draft talk or will teams really do it? :)

edit: I might have just thought up the answer to my own question... Cowboys fixed Leonard Davis when they moved him from Tackle to Guard. I can see Fluker similarly used.

Teams do it already look at the best OGs in the league they all played OT in college,

Carl Nicks
Jahri Evans
Kelechi Osemele
Marshal Yanda
Logan Mankins
Justin Blalock
Andy Levitre
Alex Boone

Last Years Draft 2nd Round

Jeff Allen
Kelechi Osemele
Amini Silaotulo

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 02:34 PM
The pressure that disrupts QBs more than anything is the pressure up the middle.

Also with the amount of blitzing that happens in todays NFL means your interior players are going 1 on 1 more often.

The great passing attacks/successful teams in the NFL have really good interior OL play,

49ers: Iuapti and Boone
Ravens: Yanda, Osemele
Patriots: Mankins, Connoly

In the Bears case Gabe Carimi sucks. Journeymen John Scott stepped in after that game and stabilized the position.

Good OG play makes OT play easier and allows the QB to step up negating the speed of players like Ware to a degree.
From my perspective, I know Tony Romo hates inside pressure A LOT more than outside pressure. Outside pressure is easier for him to escape from since he can either run to the other side or step up in the pocket and throw. When it's up the middle, he can't step up to throw and choosing a side to run to becomes problematic. So I can definitely agree that solidifying the interior is crucial... but in the end.... all of the OL positions are equally important, imo.

PossibleCabbage
01-23-2013, 02:39 PM
I think the whole RT isn't an important position is incorrect in today's NFL. It is based on the old days of run first. The RT would be asked to go against a bigger, more stout DE and get them off the ball. However nowadays players are moved all over the defensive formation. Demarcus Ware doesn't solely rush from the defensive right side. If a team has a weakness anywhere along the line defenses will find a way to exploit it.

I think people misunderstand the value of both right and left tackles in the NFL these days. They're both critical to the passing game (but not for the reasons that are oft-reported.)

When the right tackle gets beat, a right handed QB gets pressure in his face. While it's often possible to step out of the way of a rusher you see, you rarely are able to throw accurately with good mechanics in the face of such pressure.

When the left tackle gets beat, a QB might get hit without seeing it. This doesn't generally lead to injuries but to fumbles. The whole "you need an LT to keep your QB healthy" is sort of a myth (though the Theisman/Taylor incident does mean it sometimes happens) because the hits that rock the QB hardest are hits from blitzing linebackers up the middle. Yet we don't pay running backs highly for their skills in blitz pickup.

So bad RT play leads to incompletions, whereas bad LT play leads to fumbles. Both are bad, but on third down the different is more or less field position.

I think if you have no OT positions set in stone on your roster, you don't spend a high pick on a college OT without giving him a shot at either RT or LT. It's like Glenn last year, if you take him and you don't have definite starters outside you give him every chance to play tackle.

AntoinCD
01-23-2013, 02:40 PM
The pressure that disrupts QBs more than anything is the pressure up the middle.

Also with the amount of blitzing that happens in todays NFL means your interior players are going 1 on 1 more often.

The great passing attacks/successful teams in the NFL have really good interior OL play,

49ers: Iuapti and Boone
Ravens: Yanda, Osemele
Patriots: Mankins, Connoly

In the Bears case Gabe Carimi sucks. Journeymen John Scott stepped in after that game and stabilized the position.

Good OG play makes OT play easier and allows the QB to step up negating the speed of players like Ware to a degree.

I don't disagree that good OG play is a huge benefit to the passing game, however the best pass rushers tend to line up outside. Teams can't line up with 4 DEs all the time because then teams will run on that front. But it's like I mentioned above, if you have a weakness anywhere on your offensive line teams will expose it.

Big_Pete
01-23-2013, 02:47 PM
I respect your opinion. What do you think of a team drafting Fluker to play Guard?

Been a good discussion so far. Nice thoughts by John Candy and Possible Cabbage.

I could see teams drafting Fluker to play guard. Teams these days do draft guards a lot earlier than they used to.

I could also see him being drafted by a team like the Giants who want to upgrade both LG and RT and seeing how he performs at both positions and go from there.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 02:52 PM
I don't disagree that good OG play is a huge benefit to the passing game, however the best pass rushers tend to line up outside. Teams can't line up with 4 DEs all the time because then teams will run on that front. But it's like I mentioned above, if you have a weakness anywhere on your offensive line teams will expose it.

Agreed that the best pass rushers are outside.

But by playing OT you can get beat up field and still have the pass rusher not affect the play. You have more space to work with on the outside and as long as they go wide you are fine.

Inside you can't get beat or give up ground on either side because both lead to pressure.

Also it is easier with TEs and RBs to help a RT in pass portection without disrupting what is going on in the play.

JohnCandy
01-23-2013, 03:05 PM
I'm really starting to be convinced... but is this creative forum draft talk or will teams really do it? :)

edit: I might have just thought up the answer to my own question... Cowboys fixed Leonard Davis when they moved him from Tackle to Guard. I can see Fluker similarly used.

The Leonard Davis comparison is a good one since they are simialr sizes and skill sets.

Leonard was an average OT with the Cardinals.

Leonard was a Pro Bowl OG with the Cowboys.

D-Unit
01-23-2013, 03:13 PM
The Leonard Davis comparison is a good one since they are simialr sizes and skill sets.

Leonard was an average OT with the Cardinals.

Leonard was a Pro Bowl OG with the Cowboys.
I guess another thing to note is that not every team would look at him at either OG or OT. ZBS teams probably wouldn't.

Iamcanadian
01-23-2013, 04:30 PM
Still think he gets drafted to play RT and unless he flops there, there is little chance he ever plays OG. Late round 1 to early round 2 is his likely draft position.

killxswitch
01-24-2013, 08:55 AM
I guess another thing to note is that not every team would look at him at either OG or OT. ZBS teams probably wouldn't.

I doubt ZBS teams look at him at all.

I am hesitant to say that because a player faced this or that competition he must be good. That was my argument for Gabe Carimi being the #1 OT in his class. Obviously that was not correct.

Big_Pete
01-24-2013, 08:16 PM
I could easily see the Bills drafting Fluker as a LG at #41 if Levitre leaves in free agency.

Talk about a powerfull left side for that oline...

JohnCandy
01-25-2013, 09:24 AM
Is D.J Fluker a more mentally stable Shawn Andrews?

Similar physical builds, Fluker [6'5" 355lbs, 36.5" arms], Andrews [6'4" 366lbs. 34" arms]

Similar level of competition SEC.

Similar strengths [size, power and position versatility] and similar weaknesses [feet, tackle movement skills.]

descendency
01-25-2013, 02:16 PM
Still think he gets drafted to play RT and unless he flops there, there is little chance he ever plays OG. Late round 1 to early round 2 is his likely draft position.

Most teams will prioritize RT over LG.

D-Unit
01-25-2013, 02:20 PM
Is D.J Fluker a more mentally stable Shawn Andrews?

Similar physical builds, Fluker [6'5" 355lbs, 36.5" arms], Andrews [6'4" 366lbs. 34" arms]

Similar level of competition SEC.

Similar strengths [size, power and position versatility] and similar weaknesses [feet, tackle movement skills.]
Honestly, he doesn't even look like he has a brain. Just bred to play football and nothing else. I think his interview will have to be important. Especially teams that prioritize intelligence at the position.

Monomach
01-25-2013, 03:45 PM
The Bears are going to a Saints type passing and protection game with the hiring of New Orleans OC/OL coach Aaron Kromer.

The main issue the Bears have is that they do not have there version of Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans and they allow a ton of pressure up the middle.

Fluker could be their Carl Nicks at LG.

While they do allow a ton of pressure up the middle, they, in fact, allow more on the edges.

The pressure that disrupts QBs more than anything is the pressure up the middle.

Also with the amount of blitzing that happens in todays NFL means your interior players are going 1 on 1 more often.

The great passing attacks/successful teams in the NFL have really good interior OL play,

49ers: Iuapti and Boone
Ravens: Yanda, Osemele
Patriots: Mankins, Connoly

In the Bears case Gabe Carimi sucks. Journeymen John Scott stepped in after that game and stabilized the position.

Good OG play makes OT play easier and allows the QB to step up negating the speed of players like Ware to a degree.

I'm sorry, but you're uninformed here. Yes, Carimi sucks at RT. His pass pro was abysmal. However, in his time at RG, it was better. At both positions, he was among the best in the NFL in run blocking. The man clearly has a future at RG if he doesn't turn it around at RT. John Scott did not stabilize the position. His pass pro was barely better and his run blocking was nonexistent. He was actually a net loss for the Bears. I expect that he will not be offered a contract this offseason. RT is very much a need, as the Bears don't have one.

JohnCandy
01-25-2013, 05:53 PM
While they do allow a ton of pressure up the middle, they, in fact, allow more on the edges.



I'm sorry, but you're uninformed here. Yes, Carimi sucks at RT. His pass pro was abysmal. However, in his time at RG, it was better. At both positions, he was among the best in the NFL in run blocking. The man clearly has a future at RG if he doesn't turn it around at RT. John Scott did not stabilize the position. His pass pro was barely better and his run blocking was nonexistent. He was actually a net loss for the Bears. I expect that he will not be offered a contract this offseason. RT is very much a need, as the Bears don't have one.

Carimi was benched at RG as well.

In fact he was benched at 2 different positions and while he was a solid run blocker he was an abysmal pass protector and the Bears are going to a west coast offense which requires pass protection.

And the health arguement is moot as well it has been 16 months since he was injured.

He is what he is and that is not any good.

rawdawg
01-25-2013, 06:38 PM
While they do allow a ton of pressure up the middle, they, in fact, allow more on the edges.



I'm sorry, but you're uninformed here. Yes, Carimi sucks at RT. His pass pro was abysmal. However, in his time at RG, it was better. At both positions, he was among the best in the NFL in run blocking. The man clearly has a future at RG if he doesn't turn it around at RT. John Scott did not stabilize the position. His pass pro was barely better and his run blocking was nonexistent. He was actually a net loss for the Bears. I expect that he will not be offered a contract this offseason. RT is very much a need, as the Bears don't have one.

Agree 100% with everything. The Bears need linemen at any position they can get them. Nobody that played OL for them in the last 3 years has been even average. Scott wasn't very good. The best thing I can say about him is he didn't completely whiff on blocks like Carimi and Webb did at times. The thing that scares me about Emery's comments about Scott is that I really don't want him back. If he comes back that means the Bears probably didn't do anything about the OT position on either side.

The realistic ideal situation for the Bears OL would be to re-sign Lance Louis (not great, but not terrible). Give Garza 1 more year (terrible, but not killing the team). Then sign a free agent LT or LG, and use an early draft pick on whichever one they didn't sign. Louis/Carimi compete for RG. Carimi/Webb compete for RT.

Monomach
01-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Carimi was benched at RG as well.Yeah, and Lovie also benched a pro bowl corner after having one bad game in a season in which he allowed a QB rating in the 70s and didn't allow a TD. Doesn't mean a thing, as he still outperformed every player that took a snap at guard in Chicago last season. Just means Lovie handled his roster like **** and ignored advanced metrics when evaluating player performance, which we already knew.

In fact he was benched at 2 different positions and while he was a solid run blocker he was an abysmal pass protector and the Bears are going to a west coast offense which requires pass protection.
You're still wrong. His pass pro at G was fine. It was only at RT that he was abysmal. He wasn't a "solid" run blocker. He was very close to the top of the league. You think a west coast offense requires pass pro? Do you think we didn't when we ran some variation of Air Coryell the past three years? That requires twice the pass pro of a WC. The west coast offense unloads the ball twice as fast as what we've been doing.

And the health arguement is moot as well it has been 16 months since he was injured.
He had time for his knee to heal, but not time to regain the lower body weight he lost from not being able to lift that entire time. You're being willfully ignorant.

He is what he is and that is not any good.
He's a better linemen than you are an analyst. What did you do? Watch Bears games in real-time and look at a stat sheet without going back and checking snap-by-snap? Anyone who would dare to accuse Jon Scott of stabilizing anything while assuming an air of knowledge may as well put a sign around their neck that says "BERATE ME. I AM A FRAUD."

...and you know what? They guy's started 14 games in his career. You really think that's an adequate sample size to make a decision on?

Abaddon
02-12-2013, 06:44 AM
http://media.al.com/alabamafootball_impact/photo/12027139-large.jpg


Did anyone else not realize his face looked like that? Holy crap. It's like evolution just said screw it, then got hit with some gamma radiation. I don't know whether to draft the guy or put him in a museum.

He can play RT for me any time.

LonghornsLegend
02-12-2013, 09:39 AM
I love Fluker, he's got high upside and a very high floor also IMO. Slap him at RT you get a road grader, put him at Guard and he can work in a booth very well, he's got that versatility to move around in his first few years in the league as needed also. I really hope Dallas is looking at him long and hard, I love me some Jonathan Cooper but we could play Fluker at Guard and then kick him out to RT after his first year and give Jeremy Parnell a stop gap year at RT(who has looked surprisingly good).

JohnCandy
02-12-2013, 02:08 PM
You cannot teach what Fluker is, there is no amount of time in the weight room that turns you into Fluker.

Than man is a freak of nature.

Monomach
02-12-2013, 02:53 PM
http://media.al.com/alabamafootball_impact/photo/12027139-large.jpg


Did anyone else not realize his face looked like that? Holy crap. It's like evolution just said screw it, then got hit with some gamma radiation. I don't know whether to draft the guy or put him in a museum.

He can play RT for me any time.

Looks a lot like one of those 70 year old purebred Australian aborigines...except three times as big.

TACKLE
02-12-2013, 02:54 PM
If you were to rank Fluker only as a guard prospect, where would he fit on your big board if you weren't factoring in position value?

For me he's be top 10 for sure. Could easily see both he and Warmack becoming the two best guards in the game.

D-Unit
02-12-2013, 02:55 PM
At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?

D-Unit
02-12-2013, 02:55 PM
If you were to rank Fluker only as a guard prospect, where would he fit on your big board if you weren't factoring in position value?

For me he's be top 10 for sure. Could easily see both he and Warmack becoming the two best guards in the game.
Answered my question while I was posting. LOL.

regoob2
02-12-2013, 03:24 PM
At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?
I really think he can. I'm that high on him as a OG.

BallerT1215
02-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Been digging the Flukster ever since I saw his profile and this pic on the Rivals100 list.

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/r/9b/9b888b3f0c501d8dc1e92a03b36664b5/101863.jpg

Big_Pete
02-12-2013, 07:54 PM
If there is enough that powerful interior linemen like Iupati and Pouncey to get drafted in the first round, then Fluker should be a first rounder as well.

At the very least he is going to be a quality guard prospect and has huge upside imho.

Iamcanadian
02-12-2013, 10:11 PM
At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?

No, not even close, if Warmack played OT, he be a top 10 pick, Flucker will get drafted very late round 1 or early round 2 and will play RT in the NFL. He might make a very few Pro Bowls but he won't be special.

Warmack is a future HOFer if he stays healthy. Flucker simply doesn't have the feet to be special, is likely overweight and will always struggle against speed. The team that drafts Warmack will immediately be a dominate interior rushing team with a very solid pass protector.

LonghornsLegend
02-12-2013, 10:59 PM
No, not even close, if Warmack played OT, he be a top 10 pick, Flucker will get drafted very late round 1 or early round 2 and will play RT in the NFL. He might make a very few Pro Bowls but he won't be special.

For somebody who claims they can't tell the future you sure do act like it. Fluker is more likely to go mid round 1 then he is early round 2 and you have no clue if a team will draft him to be a guard or tackle because he can play either one. Seems like your just making a bunch of assumptions here with no basis to it.

Iamcanadian
02-13-2013, 02:55 PM
For somebody who claims they can't tell the future you sure do act like it. Fluker is more likely to go mid round 1 then he is early round 2 and you have no clue if a team will draft him to be a guard or tackle because he can play either one. Seems like your just making a bunch of assumptions here with no basis to it.

I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.

Attyla the Hawk
02-13-2013, 04:06 PM
This is a guy that just seems like he could make a Brady Quinn like slide to round 2.

There are several LT prospects in the draft, so they'll keep teams wanting OT help satisfied. There are 2 elite OG prospects in this draft. So he's not going to go before them either. It is going to take a team that thinks he will make it as a RT and want him more than some other position in order for him to have his name called in R1. Realistically, I'm not sure there are many teams in the back half of round 1 willing to do that.

This is a weird draft with not a lot of separation between the 15th through 50th rated players. The combine will undoubtedly create some separation since everyone is so close. Fluker will need to do very well there.

Of course, Seattle went that route already (Carpenter) at 25. The main difference between the two drafts, is that there wasn't a lot of talent to compete with in 2011. Fluker has much stiffer competition in 2013. Even amongst his own position group.

Additionally, Carpenter played LT and had shown the ability to move around the line. It was probably the main reason we took him instead of Carimi or someone else. Ultimately, it was a pick we couldn't trade out of and were stuck with making the pick. So he wasn't our best case option.

LonghornsLegend
02-13-2013, 04:11 PM
I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.

He's not coming into the league in the middle of a contract negotiation. His contract is set where he is picked, not from what position his team puts him at. That point is completely irrelevant for rookies.

scottyboy
02-13-2013, 04:12 PM
perhaps. except, well, Brady Quinn went round 1...

LonghornsLegend
02-13-2013, 04:13 PM
perhaps. except, well, Brady Quinn went round 1...

And if he is drafted at the beginning of round 2 I'm not sure anyone would really classify that as a huge slide or fall in the draft.

Iamcanadian
02-13-2013, 04:29 PM
He's not coming into the league in the middle of a contract negotiation. His contract is set where he is picked, not from what position his team puts him at. That point is completely irrelevant for rookies.

Agents and players know the money is gotten when their rookie contracts are up and the position you play will decide how much you make if you are a good player. OG's make considerably less money than an OT and to get Flucker and his agent to agree to a switch to OG will be a very tough sell.

IMO, his agent will be telling teams that want Flucker to play OG to back off of drafting him, suggesting he won't make the switch. Teams that draft him to play OG will be facing a very reluctant player who may not give it his all in those circumstances. He could be a headache for a team if they switch him without giving him a solid shot at playing RT.

I'm not saying he won't eventually end up at OG if he's not good enough to play RT, that's a process that every rookie goes through but to draft him as an OG right from the start, good luck to the team that tries it.

Monomach
02-13-2013, 04:52 PM
Agents and players know the money is gotten when their rookie contracts are up and the position you play will decide how much you make if you are a good player. OG's make considerably less money than an OT and to get Flucker and his agent to agree to a switch to OG will be a very tough sell.

IMO, his agent will be telling teams that want Flucker to play OG to back off of drafting him, suggesting he won't make the switch. Teams that draft him to play OG will be facing a very reluctant player who may not give it his all in those circumstances. He could be a headache for a team if they switch him without giving him a solid shot at playing RT.

I'm not saying he won't eventually end up at OG if he's not good enough to play RT, that's a process that every rookie goes through but to draft him as an OG right from the start, good luck to the team that tries it.
LMAO

This is silly talk. He's going to play where the team puts him or he won't be getting any second contract at all after his three years of riding the bench with a reputation as a huge cancer. What kind of leverage do you really think a late first/early second rounder has here?

Caulibflower
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
I see him as a guard, too. He's just not really as fluid as I want a tackle to be, and is vulnerable when he gets isolated in space against speed rushers. But he's huge and powerful and takes up a lot of space, and can be very effective holding a gap in pass pro and creating lanes in the run game.

Big_Pete
02-13-2013, 08:45 PM
I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.

How do you say that?

Fluker has exception mobility for his size?

Guards have been drafted quite often in the first round in recent years. I don't buy the positional argument there. Some teams will see him as a right tackle, others will see him as a guard.

your comments about money and agents, dont make sense at all. With the rookie wage scale, he will get paid based on where he gets selected.

A team will pick him and play him where they want, the player or agent get little choice until the rookie contract is up.

I think Fluker will end up in the 15-20 range.

In free agency the contracts the top guards are getting isn't that different to what the top RTs get anyways.

JohnCandy
02-13-2013, 09:18 PM
OG make more than RT. Top OGs are making an average of 9 million a season can someone show me a RT making anywhere near that?

And the franchise number is the same for all OLmen.

Fluker will play OG if that is where he is going to be the best and make the most Pro Bowls and then he will sign a deal like Carl Nicks (5 years 45 million) or Jahri Evans (7 year 56 million) or Logan Mankins (6 year 51 million).

For comparisons the highest paid RTs are,

Tyson Clabo 5 years 25 million (11 guaranteed)
Eric Winston 4 years 22 million
Doug Free 4 years 32 million (17 guaranteed), and Doug Free was playing LT.

It is not even close between RT and OG.

If your not playing LT the money is at OG, not RT.

JohnCandy
02-13-2013, 09:44 PM
If Fluker is smart he plays OG.

Cigaro
02-13-2013, 10:06 PM
If Fluker is smart he plays OG.

He's smart if he's willing to make the move to OG. But there's no reason not to try out RT if the opportunity is there.

bigbuc
02-14-2013, 02:24 AM
I see this guy as a Colt.

JohnCandy
02-14-2013, 07:15 AM
He's smart if he's willing to make the move to OG. But there's no reason not to try out RT if the opportunity is there.

Absolutely he can try RT, but the arguement that he will make less money at OG is not true.

If all he cares about is money and he knows he cannot play LT then he should move to OG.

LonghornsLegend
02-14-2013, 08:18 AM
Agents and players know the money is gotten when their rookie contracts are up and the position you play will decide how much you make if you are a good player. OG's make considerably less money than an OT and to get Flucker and his agent to agree to a switch to OG will be a very tough sell.

IMO, his agent will be telling teams that want Flucker to play OG to back off of drafting him, suggesting he won't make the switch. Teams that draft him to play OG will be facing a very reluctant player who may not give it his all in those circumstances. He could be a headache for a team if they switch him without giving him a solid shot at playing RT.

I'm not saying he won't eventually end up at OG if he's not good enough to play RT, that's a process that every rookie goes through but to draft him as an OG right from the start, good luck to the team that tries it.


When have you ever heard a lineman coming into the draft that is a hybrid G/T prospect, telling teams what position he will and won't play and demanding what position he is gonna play? Seriously? He's a rookie, he's not Branden Albert going into free agency, there is a difference. He could be drafted as a swing guy, and play both positions.

Your assuming things that are not true what so ever and I can't remember ever happening. You make it seem like this is a team wanting to draft Joeckel and put him at Guard. Where has his agent said any of what you claim? When has an agent of a G/T prospect came out and told teams "my client won't be playing Guard so do not draft him as such"?

Goon61
02-23-2013, 08:55 AM
He looked really bad in the OL drill I just watched. He took very short steps and wasn't moving in straight lines for some reason.

I don't have much experience scouting large OL, but I would be surprised if this guy can even play RT in the NFL

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 08:56 AM
He looked really bad in the OL drill I just watched. He took very short steps and wasn't moving in straight lines for some reason.

I don't have much experience scouting large OL, but I would be surprised if this guy can even play RT in the NFL

His feet were so heavy and slow

Goon61
02-23-2013, 09:00 AM
Yeh, Cooper looked better than him in that drill. Fluker is an interesting prospect

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 09:02 AM
Yeh, Cooper looked better than him in that drill. Fluker is an interesting prospect

It's no surprise that Cooper impressed, but it is surprising, not in a good way, how Fluker looked during the drill.

Monomach
02-23-2013, 09:49 AM
That drill was pretty bad. If he keeps that up all weekend, he's going to go from the best "traditional" RT in the class to the 3rd-or-4th-best guard in the class.

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 09:53 AM
That drill was pretty bad. If he keeps that up all weekend, he's going to go from the best "traditional" RT in the class to the 3rd-or-4th-best guard in the class.

I don't see any way he's a guard at the next level with his sluggish movement and operating in space is foreign to him

killxswitch
02-23-2013, 12:28 PM
I don't see any way he's a guard at the next level with his sluggish movement and operating in space is foreign to him

Isn't RG in a power blocking scheme one of the better places to hide a slow-footed guy that can't work in space?

I wonder if he feels sluggish because he's been losing so much weight. Might just be low on energy. It's not like he's suddenly forgot how to play football.

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 12:32 PM
Isn't RG in a power blocking scheme one of the better places to hide a slow-footed guy that can't work in space?

I wonder if he feels sluggish because he's been losing so much weight. Might just be low on energy. It's not like he's suddenly forgot how to play football.

Even in a power scheme you would think teams want to still have the ability to pull and trap at times and Fluker doesn't appear to have the ability to do that.

Cigaro
02-23-2013, 12:32 PM
Speed's always been a concern of Fluker's. If people are just now catching on, they haven't watched him close enough.

Also Fluker no doubt can play guard, and would instantly be competing with Warmack for the top position. All this "he's too slow to play guard" stuff is nonsense. Guards work inside, very little lateral movement.

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Speed's always been a concern of Fluker's. If people are just now catching on, they haven't watched him close enough.

Also Fluker no doubt can play guard, and would instantly be competing with Warmack for the top position. All this "he's too slow to play guard" stuff is nonsense. Guards work inside, very little lateral movement.

We're talking about Fluker's ability to move, which is still very much a requirement of the guard position regardless of scheme. Fluker's feet look incredibly heavy, his hips are as stiff as a board, and his change of direction is an additional struggle for him. I knew he wasn't the world's greatest athlete, but today's performance makes me think he's nothing more than a mid-round player.

D-Unit
02-23-2013, 01:10 PM
Fluker has no bend and is stiff as a rock. Totally disinterested man. The cats outta the bag now.

Babylon
02-23-2013, 01:18 PM
Fluker has no bend and is stiff as a rock. Totally disinterested man. The cats outta the bag now.

Fluker is what he is, a massive mauler with a bad disposition. We aren't talking Baryshnikov here.

Cigaro
02-23-2013, 01:29 PM
We're talking about Fluker's ability to move, which is still very much a requirement of the guard position regardless of scheme. Fluker's feet look incredibly heavy, his hips are as stiff as a board, and his change of direction is an additional struggle for him. I knew he wasn't the world's greatest athlete, but today's performance makes me think he's nothing more than a mid-round player.

You are completely exaggerating the athleticism needed to play guard. "Athletic" guards would often find themselves considered unathletic tackles. Fluker offers unparalleled power in the box, which is where he will spend the vast majority of his time. He may never be a great pulling guard, but lets not pretend that he'll be asked to pull on every run, or even the majority of running plays. Fluker's sheer power and ability to completely neutralize his man once locked on completely negates any lacking athleticism when it comes to the guard position. Any and every team is capable of scheming in a way where Fluker can still be a great addition to the line.

killxswitch
02-23-2013, 01:35 PM
I'm surprised seasoned SWDCers are letting one drill at the underwear olympics completely invalidate game tape. I still say this is likely a result of low energy from caloric deficit.

princefielder28
02-23-2013, 03:36 PM
You are completely exaggerating the athleticism needed to play guard. "Athletic" guards would often find themselves considered unathletic tackles. Fluker offers unparalleled power in the box, which is where he will spend the vast majority of his time. He may never be a great pulling guard, but lets not pretend that he'll be asked to pull on every run, or even the majority of running plays. Fluker's sheer power and ability to completely neutralize his man once locked on completely negates any lacking athleticism when it comes to the guard position. Any and every team is capable of scheming in a way where Fluker can still be a great addition to the line.

We clearly disagree in what we look for in successful guards. I will not dispute his power, but when footwork is poor then that power can be neutralized.

I'm surprised seasoned SWDCers are letting one drill at the underwear olympics completely invalidate game tape. I still say this is likely a result of low energy from caloric deficit.

Did you happen to see the linemen drills? Fluker was easily of one of the worst, if not the worst. His entire lower body appears to be a liability for him.

Abaddon
02-23-2013, 03:38 PM
Isn't RG in a power blocking scheme one of the better places to hide a slow-footed guy that can't work in space?

The Raiders did it with Mo Collins to great success. Fluker might have to kick inside, but he can definitely excel there.

ph90702
02-23-2013, 03:43 PM
We clearly disagree in what we look for in successful guards. I will not dispute his power, but when footwork is poor then that power can be neutralized.



Did you happen to see the linemen drills? Fluker was easily of one of the worst, if not the worst. His entire lower body appears to be a liability for him.

I watched him in pass protection, and he is stiffer than a flagpole. He'd be better as a guard.

rawdawg
02-23-2013, 03:55 PM
He looked exactly the way Phil Loadholt looked in drills 4 years ago. Loadholt is now the best RT in football. Those drills don't mean much. Bottom line is it takes a whole lot to get past him and to the QB.

Babylon
02-23-2013, 04:16 PM
He looked exactly the way Phil Loadholt looked in drills 4 years ago. Loadholt is now the best RT in football. Those drills don't mean much. Bottom line is it takes a whole lot to get past him and to the QB.

I like your take on Fluker but I'd have several RTs rated higher than Loadholt.

FUNBUNCHER
02-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Maybe it's just me, but there's something about Fluker and Warmack IMO where I don't see them living up to their predraft hype in the pros.

I think Warmack will be a very good NFL guard but not scheme diverse one. For some reason I don't think he has the lateral quickness to get out on blocks in the pros, or pull effectively.

Running a 5.5 40 tells me he doesn't have great quickness. He's fluid, but he's not moving that fast.

If a DE or DT tries to bullrush Fluker they are going to take themselves out of the play. But if FLuker has to has to take an inside/outside step to pick up an NFL pass rusher, I think he's getting beat often.

rawdawg
02-23-2013, 07:25 PM
What does it matter what a pulling guard runs? He's not going to be faster than the LB or S he's trying to block at the 2nd level anyway.

Don't underestimate Fluker's arm length. He gets beat quite a bit, but he can get his hands on a lot of players that other OTs can't. And he's strong enough that when he gets his hands on them, they don't get to the QB.

TACKLE
02-23-2013, 07:41 PM
Maybe it's just me, but there's something about Fluker and Warmack IMO where I don't see them living up to their predraft hype in the pros.

I think Warmack will be a very good NFL guard but not scheme diverse one. For some reason I don't think he has the lateral quickness to get out on blocks in the pros, or pull effectively.

Running a 5.5 40 tells me he doesn't have great quickness. He's fluid, but he's not moving that fast..

I feel like the ability to pull out in space is becoming a really overrated attribute with the majority of teams running primarily zone. Not saying you don't want athletic The ability to move people off the ball is so much more important. I know he was returning from injury but we saw DeCastro get solidly outperformed by Zeitler. DeCastro was always great at pulling out in space but didn't really thrive and driving guys off the ball. Zeitler was more so the opposite but was able to be more of an impact player because of his ability to get movement at the point of attack. It's like having a pass rusher who is great at creating pressure on stunts and designed blitzes but is just alright in 1-on-1 situations off the edge. You can create situations for a guy to best use his and best attributes but at the end of the day the guy who can wins the most often and most decisively in man-on-man (pause) situations is the guy you want.

Warmack, and Fluker, but sticking with Warmack for now isn't 'light on his feet'. He has heavy (size 18) feet. He has a big, heavy, powerful lower body which is where power and anchor are generated from. He may not be the best guard you'll find at pulling out to the sideline on tosses (though he's proven to be very effective at pulling on power plays between the tackles) or making blocks 20 yards down field on a screen but that big, heavy base of his is what makes him so dominant everywhere else.

The exact same thing hold true with Fluker but being light on your feet is obviously more important outside. It's why I think he can be an all-pro inside but might be a little too up-and-down at tackle.

Not meaning to go off on you FUN, just something I've been noticing.

FUNBUNCHER
02-23-2013, 08:19 PM
I didn't take it that you were going off, TACKLE.;)
You went into greater depth on what I thought I saw from both prospects compared to what they offer a team as individual players.

I agree if an Offensive coordinator is asking either Fluker or Warmack to move laterally at the snap too often, that OC isn't taking advantage of both player's strengths.

I keep thinking of blocking in terms of ZBS, but you're right being able to anchor in pass pro and move DL off the ball on run downs is an invaluable skillset and Warmark appears to have this ability and then some.

finessence
02-23-2013, 09:28 PM
htp://youtu.be/6i4dlVyj4K0

Flukers FRESHMAN tape in 2010. You're all welcome. The film does not lie... The Kid is not a slouch on the field. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a Floridian who knows nothing about football.

Monomach
03-04-2013, 05:52 PM
I keep seeing mock drafts that have him going in the first and the first part of their explanation usually mentions shoring up pass protection for the team.

Weird, considering that the weakest part of Fluker's game is pass pro. He had some conspicuous struggles with speed rushers in college. I'm not 100% sold on him as a tackle.

K Train
03-04-2013, 05:57 PM
i think with him dropping weight by quite a bit and getting in better shape he could become a good pass blocker. His ungodly long arms make up for his slow feet

Kase1
03-05-2013, 05:50 PM
I don't know what it is, I cant put my finger on it but I just don't want this guy on my team where he's been mocked. I feel that the 1st round is just too high to draft a pure RT.

K Train
03-05-2013, 06:33 PM
hes more of a RT/Guard that will make DTs fake injuries just to get a breather

LonghornsLegend
03-06-2013, 08:25 AM
I don't know what it is, I cant put my finger on it but I just don't want this guy on my team where he's been mocked. I feel that the 1st round is just too high to draft a pure RT.

There were numerous RT's drafted in the top 10-15, and there probably always will be.

nepg
03-06-2013, 08:49 AM
Fluker just isn't as athletic as some other options, but he is a beast with a nasty streak. He's purely a RT, which is why he doesn't seem as attractive as other options. He's also going to be a team leader wherever he goes.

Don Vito
03-06-2013, 08:57 AM
Fluker just isn't as athletic as some other options, but he is a beast with a nasty streak. He's purely a RT, which is why he doesn't seem as attractive as other options. He's also going to be a team leader wherever he goes.

Having a guy like Fluker on your OL is awesome. He might not be a dancing bear but I think he will be better in pass protection in the NFL then people are projecting. Just a bulldozer who plays pissed off and will be a guy who beats on people for 60 minutes, every team should want a guy like that.

killxswitch
03-06-2013, 09:22 AM
I don't think he's a "pure RT" either. Whoever drafts him should try him at RT and guard and keep him wherever he can be most successful. Let him use that power on the strongest defenders on the field and drive them off the line.

Don Vito
03-06-2013, 09:45 AM
If we don't re-sign Vollmer I would love for us to take a look at Fluker, even if we do bring Vollmer back for that matter. He doesn't fit the mold for what we typically look for on the OL but I think he could play guard or RT and we will have a hole in at least one of those spots come draft day. Cannon is still a developmental guy with upside, but I would love us adding Fluker. I would not complain if we took him in the first even though I am sure other Pats fans will disagree with me, I have just always been a fan of Fluker. Mankins is a nasty player as well but he has regressed.

Monomach
03-06-2013, 09:52 AM
If we don't re-sign Vollmer I would love for us to take a look at Fluker, even if we do bring Vollmer back for that matter. He doesn't fit the mold for what we typically look for on the OL but I think he could play guard or RT and we will have a hole in at least one of those spots come draft day. Cannon is still a developmental guy with upside, but I would love us adding Fluker. I would not complain if we took him in the first even though I am sure other Pats fans will disagree with me, I have just always been a fan of Fluker. Mankins is a nasty player as well but he has regressed.

Would probably be a good fit. With how that offense likes to get the ball dumped off quickly, it'd mitigate any pass pro problems on his part while still getting all of the benefit of his run blocking.

killxswitch
03-06-2013, 09:57 AM
Would probably be a good fit. With how that offense likes to get the ball dumped off quickly, it'd mitigate any pass pro problems on his part while still getting all of the benefit of his run blocking.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Pats offense. Sure, there are quick pass plays. But there are plenty of plays where Brady has a metric **** ton of clean pocket time to wait for a downfield route to develop.

Don Vito
03-06-2013, 10:03 AM
You always see our linemen pulling on screen plays so that could be a concern. Our linemen are asked to play out in space a lot so that could be a bit of an issue, his 40 time was not great but if you watch him on tape he doesn't look completely awful down field or outside on swing plays.

Monomach
03-06-2013, 10:07 AM
I don't agree with your assessment of the Pats offense. Sure, there are quick pass plays. But there are plenty of plays where Brady has a metric **** ton of clean pocket time to wait for a downfield route to develop.

The Pats offense has the fastest average time from snap to pass in the league @ 2.49 seconds. I agree that when they do go downfield, he has a buttload of time, but for the most part, he's dumping it off quickly.

killxswitch
03-06-2013, 10:10 AM
The Pats offense has the fastest average time from snap to pass in the league @ 2.49 seconds. I agree that when they do go downfield, he has a buttload of time, but for the most part, he's dumping it off quickly.

I think part of that stat is their execution. They don't go downfield as much as they throw short and intermediate passes. Most offenses don't. But you wouldn't want to damage the deep passing game, it'll negatively impact the whole offense.

Don Vito
03-06-2013, 10:17 AM
There are a lot of plays where Brady sits back there for 10 seconds looking for someone to get open, but so much of our offense is built on those screens and quick passes. You will always see a few linemen being asked to go out and make a key block in space, and that is a big thing that we look for in our OL. Solder can do it, Vollmer can do it, Mankins isn't the player he used to be but he can still do it to an extent. Fluker is a mountain and he didn't run like Lane Johnson, but if you watch some of his tape he doesn't look incredibly lost when he was asked to go to the second level or get out in space. Was he asked to do it a ton? No, but I would still consider Fluker a good athlete for his size just based on how he looks on film. He will never be mistaken for a tight end but he looks comfortable and not completely unnatural when he is asked to do more than just down block.

Again, he won't be mistaken for Jonathan Cooper, but considering it is his widely considered his biggest weakness I wouldn't be overly concerned seeing him out in space once in a while. He would just be asked to do it quite a bit in our scheme so that could be a concern.

bitonti
03-06-2013, 11:28 AM
i don't buy the "purely RT" talk. If Cordy Glenn can play LT then so can fluker. What these guys lack in movement skills they make up for in being gigantic. It's the Marcus McNeil model of LT.

princefielder28
03-06-2013, 11:42 AM
i don't buy the "purely RT" talk. If Cordy Glenn can play LT then so can fluker. What these guys lack in movement skills they make up for in being gigantic. It's the Marcus McNeil model of LT.

Fluker could never make it at left tackle. Glenn and McNeil may (may have) lacked movement skills, but when it comes to Fluker, his movement skills are almost non-existent.

killxswitch
03-06-2013, 11:51 AM
Gordy Glenn has much better feet than Fluker has ever shown.

K Train
03-06-2013, 04:48 PM
glenn is a terrible comparison. a more angry phil loadholt with longer arms and probably more power is better comparison...hes a bit shorter than loadholt, and could realistically be a pro bowler at guard or RT

Cigaro
03-06-2013, 05:04 PM
Guys, don't you know Fluker is so unathletic that he can't play anywhere on the line and is worth nothing more than a mid round pick?

Punisher
03-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Move him to DE: he will know what the tackle is thinking.

Monomach
03-08-2013, 09:52 AM
Watched a few more games; now 100% convinced he's a guard at the next level. Tied with Warmack for #2-3 in my rankings, behind Cooper.

TankGiant
03-08-2013, 10:47 AM
Do you guys think Fluker compares to Cordy Glenn at all? From what I have seen, Glenn seemed to be playing really well at Left tackle for the bills.

PossibleCabbage
03-08-2013, 11:10 AM
Do you guys think Fluker compares to Cordy Glenn at all? From what I have seen, Glenn seemed to be playing really well at Left tackle for the bills.

I have a higher grade on Fluker as a right tackle than anybody since Loadholt. Hard to compare to Glenn, since I do think Glenn can play left tackle a bit (I want to see him fail at it before I move him). Fluker I wouldn't play at left tackle, and he's honestly not my kind of guard.

killxswitch
03-08-2013, 12:51 PM
Glenn seems to be more light on his feet but is not the mauler Fluker is. I mean that as a prospect, not as a retroactive thing now that he is the Bills LT. The words "dancing bear" were used more than once before he was drafted.