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bigbluedefense
06-10-2012, 03:49 PM
Discuss teams, units, or players that you think are sleepers heading into this season in this thread.

Right now, I have my eyes on 2 offenses that I think are sleepers to be very good this upcoming season.

Units

1. Pittsburgh

I think with the addition of Adams and DeCastro, the Steelers have really shored up that OL. I think Wallace, Brown, and Sanders makes a very potent and fast 3 WR set, and I know Haley plans on using Miller more in the passing game as well. That's a great group of players at the skill positions. Couple the improved OL with Ben at qb, and an improved run game under Haley, and I think this unit has a lot of potential to be deadly this season.

2. Tennessee

There are a lot of "Ifs" associated with this unit. IF CJ bounces back, IF Locker can develop, IF Britt is healthy, IF Wright has a great rookie season. But all of those Ifs aren't crazy. If they all happen, and it's not out of the question that they do, you have a potent offense. Nate Washington is slept on, Britt is a stud, Wright is a great slot, they have a very underrated TE, CJ at his best is a beast, and now you have a qb who can also add the scrambling element to the field in Locker if he develops.

It really all depends on Locker to me. I was a big Locker fan, so I expect him to be good. If he can be, coupled with all those other factors bouncing their way, watch out for Tennessee. Tennessee as a whole is being slept on a lot this season. Don't be surprised if they win the division.


3. St. Louis's defense

I also think we see a lot of improvement from St. Louis's defense this year. They were banged up like hell last year. They add Finnegan and Jenkins to the secondary, Laurentitis is underrated, and Long and Quinn are on the come up. Brockers should help the run defense. I think that group has potential.

Players

I think Malcolm Jenkins breaks out this year at FS. He's known as a very good FS, I think under Spags can be an elite FS. He's got it all, the size, speed, instincts, tackling ability, he can lay wood, I think Spag's scheme should really bring out the best in him.

I think Jimmy Smith in Baltimore establishes himself as one of the best CBs in the game. I love me some Jimmy Smith. I think he's a stud.



That's all I got for now, I'm sure more will come to mind later.

SuperPacker
06-10-2012, 03:58 PM
1. Chiefs
They're going to the Superbowl.

2. Packers Defense
With Perry and Worthy hopefully helping the pass rush, we could go back too the 2010 defense.

3. Rams Offense
Sam Bradford with a better team around him should do better.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 04:03 PM
1. Chiefs
They're going to the Superbowl.


I love the Chiefs too, but Cassell will never ever reach the Super Bowl

bigbluedefense
06-10-2012, 04:04 PM
Unless Cassell becomes Brady's backup again, he'll never be in a Super Bowl.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 04:06 PM
Buccaneers will make the Playoffs this year. I think Ryan has a bad year for Atlanta, New Orleans is in turmoil and Carolina isn't there...yet, but they will be soon.

That's all I got for now.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2012, 04:07 PM
I like the Bucs too. Schiano will have them playing Jersey football. They'll be tough and physical.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 04:12 PM
I like the Bucs too. Schiano will have them playing Jersey football. They'll be tough and physical.

Yea man, I can't wait to see Martin and Blount behind that new O-Line with Nicks. They are going to put up some big numbers, plus VJax will help them a lot. I loved what they did this offseason both in the draft and in FA.

O I also agree with you on Tennessee, I think they are in playoff contention this year as well as Buffalo. I think in a year or 2 when Locker takes over they will put on some great battles with Houston for the division crown.

Brent
06-10-2012, 04:15 PM
Arizona's defense - That defense is scary on paper. I am expecting their young OLBs to wreck havoc.

scottyboy
06-10-2012, 04:19 PM
Arizona's defense - That defense is scary on paper. I am expecting their young OLBs to wreck havoc.

I agree whole heartedly.

I also like the Bills. I like their draft and liked what they did last season

bigbluedefense
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
Yeah I also like Arizona's defense a lot. I love Buffalo's dline, I want to see upgrades to the LB core though. I'm also iffy on their secondary, although if Gilmore pans out, and Williams continues to grow they'll be good in the secondary too.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 04:56 PM
I like Arizona's D also, but I hate their QB play. I think they have a mediocre season but get too many wins because of that D to be in position to draft a real QB.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2012, 04:57 PM
Yeah Arizona will be handcuffed by horrible qb play. What's worse is they run an offensive system that's heavily reliant on good qb play and quick decision making.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 05:13 PM
Yea I think they just gotta hope a lot of underclassmen declare and they can get a guy like Smith, Jones or maybe even Barkley. I think if Bray and Logan both declare they will beat out Barkley and be in the top 3 along with Wilson letting Barkley slip into a very lucky scenario.

onejayhawk
06-10-2012, 07:34 PM
1. Chiefs
They're going to the Superbowl.

I dont know about the team winning the AFC. Houston has the inside track there. But the Chiefs defense is going to rock the league this year. Last year without Eric Berry and a decent NT they were top 10 for the second half of the season. Both those issue have been addressed, depth is much improved, and Justin Houston and Allen Bailey are no longer rookies.

J

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 07:37 PM
I don't care how good their D is, they still have a horrible QB. The Ravens have a better D and QB and still can't make it past the Pats. No ******* chance the Chiefs make it. Sorry, like I said I love them and wish they would, but they won't. Also, stop signing posts "J" it's dumb.

WCH
06-10-2012, 07:51 PM
People are sleeping on the Bears. They're going to compete for the NFC North, and if/when they make the playoffs, they're a legitimate threat to go all the way.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 07:54 PM
People are sleeping on the Bears. They're going to compete for the NFC North, and if/when they make the playoffs, they're a legitimate threat to go all the way.

I've been saying that all season long. I think if Cutler stays healthy they're a SB threat, but that's a big if with their OL. I love that they gave him some legit WRs and got Forte a backup, but they need Forte to actually play and to keep Cutler healthy. Like I said, they do that and they're easily a playoff team.

Gay Ork Wang
06-10-2012, 07:58 PM
The OL is not that bad.

WCH
06-10-2012, 08:12 PM
Cutler's health is the key thing. Last season, they looked damn good before his injury. The year before, they may very well have gone to the Super Bowl if Cutler hadn't gotten injured in the NFCCG.

On paper, I think they're better this season. They should scare Packers, Giants, and 49ers fans.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-10-2012, 08:25 PM
Couple of Chargers I could see putting up big years: Ryan Matthews and Robert Meachum.

WCH
06-10-2012, 08:27 PM
I'm still a big fan of Ryan Matthews.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 09:01 PM
Matthews went from being called a bust to being deemed for a breakout year. Just shows what a difference a year makes.

Mufasa
06-10-2012, 09:11 PM
People are sleeping on the Bears. They're going to compete for the NFC North, and if/when they make the playoffs, they're a legitimate threat to go all the way.

The Bears are such a popular "sleeper" pick, that they can't be considered a sleeper.

WCH
06-10-2012, 09:34 PM
The Bears are such a popular "sleeper" pick, that they can't be considered a sleeper.

To be fair, I wasn't saying that they're a sleeper to improve over last season or to win 10+ games. I was saying that they're a sleeper to win the whole damned thing.

gpngc
06-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Colts and Brownies.

Chargers and Falcons Super Bowl.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 09:41 PM
There is always a common sleeper that everyone agrees will break out and surprise people. It's only impressive when they do even better than the sleeper expectations. Like WCH said, a lot of people expect them to compete for the playoffs, but if they won it all that would be a shock still and even to those who had them as a "sleeper" pick.

nepg
06-10-2012, 09:44 PM
I don't see Houston taking another step forward. The team makes the playoffs once in its existence and all of a sudden they're front-runners for the AFC?

Matt Schaub's never even played in a playoff game.

Mufasa
06-10-2012, 09:48 PM
To be fair, I wasn't saying that they're a sleeper to improve over last season or to win 10+ games. I was saying that they're a sleeper to win the whole damned thing.

Right. Most people view the Bears as a legit contender, as they should. A team that is expected to make the playoffs and challenge for the Super Bowl can't be considered a sleeper.

bantx
06-10-2012, 09:49 PM
The seahawks has been on my radar since last year, they a solid squad out there.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 09:53 PM
I don't see Houston taking another step forward. The team makes the playoffs once in its existence and all of a sudden they're front-runners for the AFC?

Matt Schaub's never even played in a playoff game.

It was the first time in their existence because theyre a very young franchise who started off with nothing. They have improved every year and have been favorites to breakout for 3 years now and they finally did last year. Even without Schaub, a guy who most people feel will put them over the hump, they won a playoff game too. So yea, improving your team and getting your starting QB back certainly makes you a SB threat. Who's better than them in the AFC? The Pats and who else? Pittsburgh? Maybe. Baltimore? Not really. Any West team? No. So what makes you say they won't do it?

gpngc
06-10-2012, 09:54 PM
I think picking the Chiefs or Bucs to make the playoffs is unwise. Obviously any team can make the playoffs but they are terrible bets. Way too many ifs. KC has the worst QB in a rough division and the Bucs defense was atrocious last year and their young QB regressed because of tougher competition. And their division is tough as hell also.

I'd pass on both of those teams fairly quickly.

The Browns upgraded at QB and HUGE at RB, return a solid OL and decent defense (underrated secondary).

The Colts upgraded at the most important position with a guy poised for a monster rookie year. I don't know about their defense but Pagano could make an impact and they at least have a couple of pass rushers.

WCH
06-10-2012, 09:56 PM
Right. Most people view the Bears as a legit contender, as they should. A team that is expected to make the playoffs and challenge for the Super Bowl can't be considered a sleeper.

Everybody who follows the NFC North is sold on the Bears, and so are most of the people on boards like this, where we obsessively talk football for 12 months a year. The vast majority of the football-following world is ready to hand the division to Green Bay, and give a Wild Card spot to the Lions.

Docta
06-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Chiefs and Bucs

Chiefs because they don't have Todd Haley anymore, and Charles is back. Bucs because Freeman worked harder than anyone this season, and the Saints aren't going to be as elite as they used to be. They also stole Nicks from them.

And the Texans aren't a sleeper team. We already know they're going to be good.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 10:02 PM
The chiefs have an incredible defense which will improve by getting Berry back and adding Poe. They also improved the OL, added Boss and Hillis and get Charles back. A healthy Cassell is better than Palmer and at the very least is a game manager. The Broncos are the team with bigger "ifs". They need Peyton to stay healthy or else they're screwed and even then they may miss the playoffs. The Raiders are a bottom 10 team this year. The Chargers are always overrated and have a mediocre passing attack with a meh D.

The Bucs have improved their OL by adding Nicks which helps Freeman. They also got him VJax to throw too and got him a better running game by adding Martin and making Schiano the HC. They improved the defense by addressing needs in the secondary finally and giving Clayborne and Bowers another year to develop(along with McCoy/Price) gives them a scary D-Line. The Saints have no HC and Brees isn't with the team right now. The Falcons have disappointed 2 years in a row and struggle against good teams(watch them play teams with winning records and see how overrated they are). The Panthers are too young right now.

Both teams might not be the safest bets, but they're damn good ones. Also you doubting them is what makes them sleepers, so go ahead and doubt, but don't be shocked when you're wrong.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Chiefs and Falcons

Chiefs because they don't have Todd Haley anymore, and Charles is back. Falcons because Freeman worked harder than anyone this season, and the Saints aren't going to be as elite as they used to be. They also stole Nicks from them.

And the Texans aren't a sleeper team. We already know they're going to be good.

:facepalm: the Bucs have Freeman and signed Nicks, not the Falcons. Also, no one said the Texans are a sleeper, in fact that guy said they're overrated.

Mufasa
06-10-2012, 10:06 PM
Everybody who follows the NFC North is sold on the Bears, and so are most of the people on boards like this, where we talk football 12 months a year. The vast majority of the football-following world is ready to hand the division to Green Bay, and give a Wild Card spot to the Lions.

Since when do we dumb ourselves down to the vast majority of the football following world?

In either case though, the Bears can not be called a sleeper. Saying the Bears are a sleeper for the Super Bowl is as bold as saying the Jaguars are a sleeper for the #1 pick. Two years ago the Bears were in the NFC Championship game. If not for injuries they could have found themselves in it again, and at the very least would have made the playoffs. Then in the offseason they go out and finally get a true #1 WR. That in no way fits the definition of a sleeper.

Docta
06-10-2012, 10:08 PM
The chiefs have an incredible defense which will improve by getting Berry back and adding Poe. They also improved the OL, added Boss and Hillis and get Charles back. A healthy Cassell is better than Palmer and at the very least is a game manager. The Broncos are the team with bigger "ifs". They need Peyton to stay healthy or else they're screwed and even then they may miss the playoffs. The Raiders are a bottom 10 team this year. The Chargers are always overrated and have a mediocre passing attack with a meh D.

The Bucs have improved their OL by adding Nicks which helps Freeman. They also got him VJax to throw too and got him a better running game by adding Martin and making Schiano the HC. They improved the defense by addressing needs in the secondary finally and giving Clayborne and Bowers another year to develop(along with McCoy/Price) gives them a scary D-Line. The Saints have no HC and Brees isn't with the team right now. The Falcons have disappointed 2 years in a row and struggle against good teams(watch them play teams with winning records and see how overrated they are). The Panthers are too young right now.

Both teams might not be the safest bets, but they're damn good ones. Also you doubting them is what makes them sleepers, so go ahead and doubt, but don't be shocked when you're wrong.
Bowers is out for the season, but Clayborn is just as good. They also have Lavonte David and Mark Barron starting on D.

I think everyone forgot about Mike Williams too. He's not going to get much double coverage now that they have VJax.

And yes, major brain fart on my part in the first post.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 10:11 PM
I think they are being slept on a little. A lot of people forgot about them after last season and have hopped on the Lions bandwagon and everyone still loves the Packers. They aren't a big sleeper and in no way is that a bold prediction, but yea I feel they are being slept on somewhat.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Bowers is out for the season, but Clayborn is just as good. They also have Lavonte David and Mark Barron starting on D.

I think everyone forgot about Mike Williams too. He's not going to get much double coverage now that they have VJax.

And yes, major brain fart on my part in the first post.

Forgot about Bowers. He was one of the many who messed up his achillies, right? But yea I agree with everything you said. I love Mike Williams as a fantasy pick this year.

WCH
06-10-2012, 10:16 PM
Since when do we dumb ourselves down to the vast majority of the football following world?

In either case though, the Bears can not be called a sleeper. Saying the Bears are a sleeper for the Super Bowl is as bold as saying the Jaguars are a sleeper for the #1 pick. Two years ago the Bears were in the NFC Championship game. If not for injuries they could have found themselves in it again, and at the very least would have made the playoffs. Then in the offseason they go out and finally get a true #1 WR. That in no way fits the definition of a sleeper.

Fair enough; you're right. I've spent the past year in the Tampa area, and people here have completely forgotten about the Bears.

I want to like the Chiefs a lot, but I don't know if they're good enough to overcome their QB situation. To make a run with a guy like Cassel, you have to be really outstanding in other areas.

Docta
06-10-2012, 10:21 PM
Forgot about Bowers. He was one of the many who messed up his achillies, right? But yea I agree with everything you said. I love Mike Williams as a fantasy pick this year.
Yeah. They also signed Dallas Clark to replace Winslow. Don't think he has much left in him though. He's currently listed as the back-up to Luke Stocker.

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 10:23 PM
Yea I don't think he has much left either, but he certainly will help Stocker in his development and can be just as good as Winslow(that is if they planned on making Stocker the starter even if they kept him).

OSUGiants17
06-10-2012, 11:22 PM
hi all,
Oh yeah I think they just gotta hope a lot of underclassmen declare and they can get a guy like Smith, Jones or maybe even Barkley
I think they are in playoff contention this year as well as Buffalo. I think in a year or 2 when Locker takes over they will put on some great battles with Houston for the division crown.

See! This guy agrees with me!

Bixby (Thumper)
06-11-2012, 02:00 AM
The Eagles defense. Last year they were 8th in yards allowed, 10th in points allowed and 1st in sacks. FootballOutsiders had them ranked as the 7th overall defense in DVOA. It was already a pretty strong unit and it got much better.

How did they get better?

For starters Juan Castillo and company now have a full offseason to install the rest of the defense.
They already had the best 4-3 defensive line in football and it only got better, the Eagles' second DL unit is better than some team's starting units. They already had Trent Cole, Jason Babin, Cullen Jenkins, Mike Patterson, Derek Landri, Phillip Hunt and Darryl Tapp. Now the Eagles have Brandon Graham at 100%, Antonio Dixon is coming back and they added Fletcher Cox and Vinny Curry.
The linebackers have been significantly upgraded with the additions of DeMeco Ryans and Mychal Kendricks. The Eagles started Jamar Chaney and Moise Fokou at these spots last year. Yikes.
The Eagles traded Asante Samuel which allows them to play more press man coverage, which suits Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Asante's presence forced those two to play more zone than they were comfortable with.
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie isn't a nickel corner anymore. He's a spectacular athlete but he's not the sharpest tack in the box, complex run fits and route combinations weren't for him. But when he played on the outside he was absolutely stellar. He took 209 snaps on the outside last year and in those snaps he was targeted only 19 times and he only allowed 8 receptions for 70 yards.
And then all the safeties get their first full offseason and Nate Allen is fully healthy this offseason too.


I think this unit is lined up for a big year.

Other than that, I'm really high on the Bears, Seahawks, Panthers and Bills. I think all four of those teams make the playoffs.

Caulibflower
06-11-2012, 03:51 AM
Arizona's defense - That defense is scary on paper. I am expecting their young OLBs to wreck havoc.

I'll up you one -

NFC West.

Caulibflower
06-11-2012, 04:09 AM
Seahawks - They have the best secondary in the NFL, the Bruce Allen pick could very well end up making Pete Carroll look good and keep the 'Hawks climbing into the elite defenses of the league. The OL is finally healthy and has an off-season to work together, and Marshawn will make the Pro Bowl - not as an alternate. Turbin takes some of the pressure off, and Marshawn is deadly late in games. The three-way QB competition should produce something better at the position than what we had last year, which was a team good enough to beat the Eagles, Ravens and Giants, but lost two nail-biters to the 49ers and laid a couple of eggs against bad teams. They're more mature, Pate Carroll finally has the defensive personell he's wanted, and the offense should be improved. Looks like a team that's going to be making a playoff push.

Arizona - Emerging, young defense with some of the best young players nobody outside of the division knows about. Calais Campbell is becoming one of the best all-around defensive lineman in the game, and he's playing next to Darnell Dockett, another Pro Bowler. Adrian Wilson is in control of the secondary, and they have a young, athletic linebacking corps. Beanie Wells finally looked like a first-round pick last year, while he was healthy, and Ryan Williams will be coming back from injury. With Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd, their receivers are scary, and Early Doucet is a very good number three. But much like the Seahawks, it's going to come down to QB, and with all the surrounding talent this is another team that might be a competent quarterback away from serious playoff contention.

San Fransisco 49ers - Everyone heard about them last year. Might have two of the top 5 linebackers in the NFL, their secondary plays solid football, Justin Smith is a ******* terrifying human being, they have a talented, tough offensive line for Frank Gore to run behind and Alex Smith finally looked like he belongs in the NFL. Vernon Davis is one of the best at his position, and I think a lot of people are still holding out hope that Crabtree breaks out for a big year. And oh yeah... they brought in Randy Moss. We'll see how that goes.

Rams - Honestly, I don't really follow the Rams. But they looked ******* terrible last year. I don't know what else to say. Bradford regressed pretty badly last year, they still don't have a number one receiver after losing Brandon Lloyd, they've got hardly anything at tight end and one of the league's better running backs in Steven Jackson. Poor, poor Steven Jackson. I hear the defense is better, but all I know about it is that Howie's kid plays defensive end and supposedly looked pretty good last year. But I sense some optimism here on the board, so as always - we'll see.

bigbluedefense
06-11-2012, 07:54 AM
The Eagles defense. Last year they were 8th in yards allowed, 10th in points allowed and 1st in sacks. FootballOutsiders had them ranked as the 7th overall defense in DVOA. It was already a pretty strong unit and it got much better.

How did they get better?

For starters Juan Castillo and company now have a full offseason to install the rest of the defense.
They already had the best 4-3 defensive line in football and it only got better, the Eagles' second DL unit is better than some team's starting units. They already had Trent Cole, Jason Babin, Cullen Jenkins, Mike Patterson, Derek Landri, Phillip Hunt and Darryl Tapp. Now the Eagles have Brandon Graham at 100%, Antonio Dixon is coming back and they added Fletcher Cox and Vinny Curry.
The linebackers have been significantly upgraded with the additions of DeMeco Ryans and Mychal Kendricks. The Eagles started Jamar Chaney and Moise Fokou at these spots last year. Yikes.
The Eagles traded Asante Samuel which allows them to play more press man coverage, which suits Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Asante's presence forced those two to play more zone than they were comfortable with.
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie isn't a nickel corner anymore. He's a spectacular athlete but he's not the sharpest tack in the box, complex run fits and route combinations weren't for him. But when he played on the outside he was absolutely stellar. He took 209 snaps on the outside last year and in those snaps he was targeted only 19 times and he only allowed 8 receptions for 70 yards.
And then all the safeties get their first full offseason and Nate Allen is fully healthy this offseason too.


I think this unit is lined up for a big year.

Other than that, I'm really high on the Bears, Seahawks, Panthers and Bills. I think all four of those teams make the playoffs.

The Eagles aren't sleepers. And you guys have a very good dline, but not the best in the league.

My issue with the Eagles defense is it's still tiny. It's a unit full of elves. They need more size on defense, they're eventually going to bump into a team that's gonna come out with 22 personnel and just run it down their throat. And they can't stop it bc they're so tiny their base 4-3 looks like a nickel defense.

TheFinisher
06-11-2012, 08:25 AM
I think the Redskins are going to be a lot better than people expect. The defense has been good for a couple years now, it's a unit that has been good enough to keep them in most games and I expect more of the same this year. Obviously, the difference now is that they have a legit QB.

There has been a recent trend of rookie QBs coming into the league and performing at a high level right off the bat, and with the raw talent and intangibles that RG3 has I see him being next in line. He doesn't have a true #1 WR, but the Skins have done a good job of surrounding him with enough playmakers to where that offense can be dangerous. Garcon and Moss give them speed and quick strike ability, Hankerson has a ton of talent and should make strides going from year 1 to year 2, and Fred Davis is one of the more underrated receiving TEs in the league. Sprinkle in a Shanahan running game led by Hightower and Helu, and the ingredients are in place for that offense to be successful.

You couldn't find a better fit for RG3's talents than Shanahan's offense. They're going to utilize his legs on plenty of play-action bootlegs, allowing him to take plenty of down field shots to Garcon and Moss.

If RG3 can adapt as quickly to the NFL game as I think he can, and Shanahan can get that running game going like he always does... the Redskins are going to surprise a lot of people this year.

hockey619
06-11-2012, 08:33 AM
The Eagles aren't sleepers. And you guys have a very good dline, but not the best in the league...its the best in the history of the world! theyll have to open an entirely new hall of fame building just for the eagles!

My issue with the Eagles defense is it's still tiny. It's a unit full of elves. They need more size on defense, they're eventually going to bump into a team that's gonna come out with 22 personnel and just run it down their throat. And they can't stop it bc they're so tiny their base 4-3 looks like a nickel defense. Im a hater though, I only hope theyre as average/above average as i said so they dont tear the league apart like wet tissue paper!

you left some of your thoughts unfinished so im just helping out, otherwise thumper 3.0 might throw a little tantrum because someone is crashing his eagles knob slobber party.


back on topic, i think arizona is in the same boat as KC: lots of good pieces, but the QB is still a problem. much more so for AZ then KC. i think cassel is the definition of mediocre, but kolb is gunna get wiz fired unless they go with skelton instead. then hes got a shot at staying, though i didnt see enough of skelton to be willing to bank on him a whole lot yet.

Rosebud
06-11-2012, 09:36 AM
The Bears have 6 players that they can not afford to lose, Cutler, Forte, Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher and Gould. These guys make their whole team go and without them they'll fall apart. Other teams have a irreplaceable players but no one that I can think of has as many as the Bears and thus no one is as dependent on good luck with injuries. You look at the Pats, they can afford to lose anyone except for Brady and Wilfork, the Giants can survive anyone but Eli or Phillips, the Packers have only Rodgers and Clay as their irreplaceable, even the Lions only have Stafford and Megatron. So the Bears are may be an excellent team when healthy, they're one of the riskest good teams in the NFL.

FUNBUNCHER
06-11-2012, 09:38 AM
I've been saying that all season long. I think if Cutler stays healthy they're a SB threat, but that's a big if with their OL. I love that they gave him some legit WRs and got Forte a backup, but they need Forte to actually play and to keep Cutler healthy. Like I said, they do that and they're easily a playoff team.


Cutler healthy for 16 games with Brandon Marshall added to their WR corps makes the Bears a threat all season long, including the post season. It's all about being able to dress their top playmakers on both sides of the football for the Bears. Before Cutler got hurt, they were one of the most dangerous teams in the NFL.

There are so many teams with a chance this season to make noise. Matt Flynn is going to win at least 10 games in Seattle. How good can the Bengals be in with AJ Green and Andy Dalton in their sophomore seasons??

I don't think there's an overwhelming favorite in the NFC South, I like Tampa Bay to rebound in a big way in 2012 but when you think how many games the Panthers were leading late into the 4th quarter they could make a strong push for the playoffs this year.

I can't remember the last time there were this many good teams on paper in the NFL.

If Matt Cassel isn't asked to win games for the Chiefs and instead asked just to make the offense efficient, I think their defense can carry them.
I think the Eagles rebound on defense and challenge for the NFCE title, assuming again if Vick stays healthy.

The SKins sleeper will be former Nebraska WR now converted to TE Niles Paul. Shanahan sees him a role similar to SHannon Sharpe.:njx:

If Eli wins another SB this year, he's in the HOF right now.:freakout:

WCH
06-11-2012, 10:05 AM
The Packers have this UDFA WR in camp, Dale Moss. He's a basketball player who didn't play football until last season, but he got better in each game and looked pretty good by the end of the season. The kid is 6'3", he has something like a 42" vertical jump, and he had the fastest 3-cone time I've ever heard of. It was stupid fast; a couple tenths of a second faster than fast. NFLDraftScout reports it as 6.35, which is already outstanding, but I've read that people have timed the guy in the high 6.1 range. As you guys know, that's kind of like running a 3.9 40 yard dash. It's just silly.

ycby0P7End8

I'm surprised that he wasn't drafted, and I have no idea how Green Bay can fit him on the 53 man roster because they're already ridiculously deep at WR, but he's going to make some noise over the next few years. "Speed Kills" and whatnot.

jrdrylie
06-11-2012, 12:06 PM
Tennessee Titans- Jake Locker showed a lot in his limited playing time last year. He should be the starter this year and will be an upgrade to Hasselbeck. I think Chris Johnson has a rebound year. Hopefully Kenny Britt comes back fully healthy. If he does, the offense could be quite dangerous. They should go 4-2 in Division. Unfortunately, the rest of the schedule is kind of tough. Their three easiest games are Miami, Minnesota, and the Jets. Let's assume 2-1 there. Can they get four wins from New England, San Deigo, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Green Bay to make the playoffs?

Buffalo Bills- They were well on their way to the playoffs before Fitzpatrick was injured. They made great improvements to the defense and I think the offense will be decent. Like the Titans, I think they'll go 4-2 in the division. Luckily, their schedule is a bit easier. Games against Kansas City, Cleveland, Arizona, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, St. Louis, and Seattle should net five wins. They would only need to beat one of San Francisco, Tennessee, or Houston to make the playoffs.

Dallas Cowboys- It's hard to call "America's Team" a sleeper. But the Giants won the Super Bowl and the Eagles get more hype. But I think Dallas is the team that comes out of this division on top. In fact, I think the Cowboys will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-11-2012, 12:07 PM
I've seen a lot of hype for Brandon LaFell too.

Docta
06-11-2012, 12:17 PM
The Bears have 6 players that they can not afford to lose, Cutler, Forte, Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher and Gould. These guys make their whole team go and without them they'll fall apart. Other teams have a irreplaceable players but no one that I can think of has as many as the Bears and thus no one is as dependent on good luck with injuries. You look at the Pats, they can afford to lose anyone except for Brady and Wilfork, the Giants can survive anyone but Eli or Phillips, the Packers have only Rodgers and Clay as their irreplaceable, even the Lions only have Stafford and Megatron. So the Bears are may be an excellent team when healthy, they're one of the riskest good teams in the NFL.
They signed Jason Campbell as a back-up. He may not be starter material, but he's above average, and definitely better than Caleb Hanie and Josh McCown.

OSUGiants17
06-11-2012, 01:50 PM
Campbell would be fine for a few games, but anything more than that and you can forget about doing any damage in the playoffs.

San Diego Chicken
06-11-2012, 03:40 PM
Nobody's really talking about the Vikings. I usually look at DL and QB first when I asses a team. They still have pro bowlers on that line, and I like Ponder enough to where I believe he can guide that offense. Plus, I think they upgraded the most of any team out of that division in the draft. The two first rounders addresses their biggest problem areas on offense and defense.

Caulibflower
06-11-2012, 03:41 PM
The Packers have this UDFA WR in camp, Dale Moss. He's a basketball player who didn't play football until last season, but he got better in each game and looked pretty good by the end of the season. The kid is 6'3", he has something like a 42" vertical jump, and he had the fastest 3-cone time I've ever heard of. It was stupid fast; a couple tenths of a second faster than fast. NFLDraftScout reports it as 6.35, which is already outstanding, but I've read that people have timed the guy in the high 6.1 range. As you guys know, that's kind of like running a 3.9 40 yard dash. It's just silly.



The numbers sure are pretty, but I gotta say - the guy is getting caught from behind playing FCS football, and despite the crazy 3-cone he doesn't make anyone miss. I didn't really see any ability at all to run after the catch. Call him raw, I guess, but I didn't see an NFL prospect while watching that video.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-11-2012, 04:02 PM
He's no Cody Pearcy, that's for damn sure.

gpngc
06-11-2012, 04:49 PM
Nobody's really talking about the Vikings. I usually look at DL and QB first when I asses a team. They still have pro bowlers on that line, and I like Ponder enough to where I believe he can guide that offense. Plus, I think they upgraded the most of any team out of that division in the draft. The two first rounders addresses their biggest problem areas on offense and defense.

If I wasn't a big detractor of Ponder I'd like them as a surprise team. Their secondary sucks but the defense shouldn't be that bad. They just play against some tough offenses.

bigbluedefense
06-11-2012, 04:51 PM
Division. The Vikings play in a killer division. That's the problem.

Mufasa
06-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Nobody's really talking about the Vikings. I usually look at DL and QB first when I asses a team. They still have pro bowlers on that line, and I like Ponder enough to where I believe he can guide that offense. Plus, I think they upgraded the most of any team out of that division in the draft. The two first rounders addresses their biggest problem areas on offense and defense.

No they don't. They have one. Jared Allen is still one of the best 4-3 DEs in the league. The rest of the line isn't that impressive. Kevin Williams is nowhere near the player he once was and Robison is decent, but nothing special.

WCH
06-11-2012, 11:13 PM
I probably should have been more clear. When I said that Dale Moss will make some noise, I meant "He'll eventually play on Sundays and will show up on a few ESPN and Youtube highlights." I didn't mean "He's the next James Lofton."

Brown Leader
06-11-2012, 11:21 PM
Broncos. ...with the rookie at QB.

I'll 2nd the Bills. That offense will easily be top 10.

Rams. The Fisher approach will do wonders.

Bengals. Losing Simpson and Benson will actually hurt but they've got top 5 types on both offense/defense.

Colts. I like Pagano but they'll be just as bad.

Gay Ork Wang
06-11-2012, 11:35 PM
The Bears have 6 players that they can not afford to lose, Cutler, Forte, Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher and Gould. These guys make their whole team go and without them they'll fall apart. Other teams have a irreplaceable players but no one that I can think of has as many as the Bears and thus no one is as dependent on good luck with injuries. You look at the Pats, they can afford to lose anyone except for Brady and Wilfork, the Giants can survive anyone but Eli or Phillips, the Packers have only Rodgers and Clay as their irreplaceable, even the Lions only have Stafford and Megatron. So the Bears are may be an excellent team when healthy, they're one of the riskest good teams in the NFL.
meh, we can work without Forte if hard comes to hard. Bush is a decent option and as long as we have Cutler i have faith.

Peppers and Urlacher we cant miss. But Briggs, while an incredible player and playmaker, will not make or break the season. Same for robbie gould. They hurt as hell, but we wont be a **** team if anyone of them are injured

ChiFan24
06-11-2012, 11:55 PM
The Bears have 6 players that they can not afford to lose, Cutler, Forte, Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher and Gould. These guys make their whole team go and without them they'll fall apart. Other teams have a irreplaceable players but no one that I can think of has as many as the Bears and thus no one is as dependent on good luck with injuries. You look at the Pats, they can afford to lose anyone except for Brady and Wilfork, the Giants can survive anyone but Eli or Phillips, the Packers have only Rodgers and Clay as their irreplaceable, even the Lions only have Stafford and Megatron. So the Bears are may be an excellent team when healthy, they're one of the riskest good teams in the NFL.

I'd say it's more like Cutler, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs. But yeah, you're mostly right on.

Rosebud
06-12-2012, 12:02 AM
I'd say it's more like Cutler, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs. But yeah, you're mostly right on.

Yeah, I think one of Forte or Gould you could survive for a little while, but to make a real Superbowl run I think you absolutely need to have at least 5 of these 6 guys out there, which is a lot more than most other contenders, which is why I think the bears are one of the toughest teams to predict. They could win that division, or barely hold off Minnesota, and I wouldn't be surprised.

Monomach
06-12-2012, 06:24 PM
The OL is not that bad.

Sure, and fire isn't all that hot.

You're not fooling anyone with that.

jrdrylie
06-12-2012, 08:01 PM
Sure, and fire isn't all that hot.

You're not fooling anyone with that.

I think the offensive line will be better this year. It's still going to be below-average. But I have faith in Mike Tice that he can it into something at least serviceable.

Grizzlegom
06-12-2012, 08:25 PM
For the Phins, I expect Brian Hartline to have a big season in the new offense. On defense, I expect Jared Odrick to take another step forward and have a big season.

Some other players from around the league I like include Jordan Cameron, O'Brien Schofield, Kendrick Lewis, and (dare I say) DHB.

EvilNixon
06-12-2012, 08:29 PM
Oakland Raiders might have a top 5 passing offense if healthy

1300+ yards for Darrius Heyward Bey...you heard it here first.

10+ sacks for Matt Shaugnessy too.

Pat Sims 90
06-12-2012, 09:12 PM
Oakland Raiders might have a top 5 passing offense if healthy

1300+ yards for Darrius Heyward Bey...you heard it here first.

10+ sacks for Matt Shaugnessy too.

If the Raiders throw the ball that much Carson will easily lead the league in INTs.

vidae
06-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Oakland Raiders might have a top 5 passing offense if healthy

1300+ yards for Darrius Heyward Bey...you heard it here first.

10+ sacks for Matt Shaugnessy too.

Oh lawd.

If the Raiders throw the ball that much Carson will easily lead the league in INTs.

The Chiefs DBs hope they throw it that much.

Scotty D
06-12-2012, 09:40 PM
Well I don't know about all that but Denarius Moore is going to beast all over the NFL next year.

ChiFan24
06-12-2012, 11:11 PM
Oakland Raiders might have a top 5 passing offense if healthy

1300+ yards for Darrius Heyward Bey...you heard it here first.

10+ sacks for Matt Shaugnessy too.

Well no, that's definitely not going to happen.

vidae
06-12-2012, 11:31 PM
Well I don't know about all that but Denarius Moore is going to beast all over the NFL next year.

No, no he won't.

EvilNixon
06-13-2012, 06:05 AM
DHB missed 1 game, and Hue Jackson completely ignored him in two others. He could have had 1300 yards last year.

tjsunstein
06-13-2012, 08:27 AM
Randall Cobb is going to explode on offense, in my opinion. Not sure how much of a sleeper he is but I think he emerges as the #3 reciever behind Jennings and Nelson.

As for defense, I like Sam Acho to record double digit sacks for Arizona.

mdmgrand
06-13-2012, 08:45 AM
I few suprises that I have:

- Carolina will make the playoffs... not as a wild card either. I believe in a division that will beat itself up, in addition to playing the equally matched NFC East. I cannot see an NFC South team getting above 10-6. The Panthers improved their defense, which was a bottom ten defense in almost every aspect, with Kuechly and Alexander in the draft and also the return of Beason and Thomas Davis. Also they added Mike Tolbert. His presence in addition to Newton, Williams, and Stewart will most definitely allow the Panthers to lead the league in rushing, and control games through the clock. I can see a 10-6 season with this team.

- Darren McFadden (if he stays relatively healthy) will lead the NFL in rushing and get over 2,000 yards from scrimmage. I see 1,500 Rushing Yards and over 500 Receiving Yards.

- I really believe that the New York Giants will not make the playoffs this year. I see that division being tough from top to bottom again, with Philadelphia winning and Dallas coming in second. Philadelphia went 5-1 in the division last year, and 5/8 losses came by a touchdown or less.

- And just for the sake of it, I will list my Playoff predictions... This will include my thinking of minor injuries and some good players missing time, but obviously no one can predict an injury that cripples a team's chance...

NFC:
1) San Francisco
2) Philadelphia
3) Green Bay
4) Carolina
5) Chicago
6) Detroit

(I really do believe that three NFC North teams will make the playoffs, they drew the NFC West and the AFC South as the divisions they must play. These two divisions will provide two hard matchups in the 49ers and the Texans. And the Vikings will probably give each of these teams two wins. Whoever wins the Week 16 game with the Falcons will probably be the winner of the last playoff spot.)

AFC:
1) Denver
2) New England
3) Baltimore
4) Houston
5) Buffalo
6) Kansas City

RaiderDiehard
06-13-2012, 09:55 AM
Gimme some more Cobb love. The heir apparent to Driver in the slot over there in GB. Expecting him to factor in close to Antonio Brown production.

Yeah, I'm setting the bar high.

K Train
06-13-2012, 10:25 AM
I'd say it's more like Cutler, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs. But yeah, you're mostly right on.

yeah i think the bears could definitely live without forte, people underestimate michael bush and his studliness, he wont offer what forte does in the passing game but he will out class him on the ground

RaiderDiehard
06-13-2012, 10:29 AM
yeah i think the bears could definitely live without forte, people underestimate michael bush and his studliness, he wont offer what forte does in the passing game but he will out class him on the ground

Absolutely not. Bush has seemingly lost his explosion year after year. I've watched enough of the guy over the past couple of seasons to classify him as a slightly above average runner, and not much more.

The Bears would dearly miss Forte. Accounted for nearly half their offense last season (have to double check).

K Train
06-13-2012, 10:41 AM
I think bush will be fine playing in chicago, forte has always been an excellent receiving back and he had a great year running the ball last year for the most part, but he has been known to be a painfully average runner on occasion

FUNBUNCHER
06-13-2012, 11:40 AM
I look for Chicago to have a Detroit Lions type passing offensive explosion in 2012. Their offense isn't going to based around their ground game, running the ball will be complementary to Jay Cutler throwing deep to Marshall/Hester/Jeffrey.

Bush will be fine in that Bears offense if the passing game takes off.

Caulibflower
06-13-2012, 01:31 PM
yeah i think the bears could definitely live without forte, people underestimate michael bush and his studliness, he wont offer what forte does in the passing game but he will out class him on the ground

Bush is actually a really good receiver. If you want a real sleeper for this thread, you might just throw out the possibility of Michael Bush making Chicago forget about Forte. They're actually pretty similar. Forte's quicker, but Bush is bigger. Neither runs real violently for their size, but both are big, strong and deceptively fast and smooth. Don't think the Bears will be losing much in terms of receiving ability at the position going from Forte to Bush.

Bush might've been a first-round pick if he hadn't broken his leg his senior year (He was tearing **** up at the time), and he certainly would've gone second - same as Forte. And you've gotta remember he's been sharing time with Darren MacFadden. Forte's basically been a 4.0 yard per carry guy most of his career anyways - a lot of the press he receives is for how big of a load he carries, not because he does it spectacularly, necessarily.

So in short, count me among those who thinks it's quite plausible that Michael Bush could pretty seamlessly step in for Forte if Forte decides to hold out.

_YL_
06-13-2012, 10:17 PM
Oh lawd.



The Chiefs DBs hope they throw it that much.

Pass interference # 26 automatic first down. Get use to it. Huge down graded from Carr to Routt.

Far as Sleepers mine would be D.Moore

vidae
06-13-2012, 10:24 PM
Pass interference # 26 automatic first down. Get use to it. Huge down graded from Carr to Routt.

Far as Sleepers mine would be D.Moore

Romeo Crennel, huge upgrade from whoever you had as a DC with Routt there.

Routt was a great #2 when Nnamdi was there, and he suffered as a #1. He won't be asked to be a #1 here, he will be the #2 to Flowers. He will be just fine. You'll see how a DB is really coached up.

Scotty D
06-13-2012, 10:32 PM
Romeo Crennel, huge upgrade from whoever you had as a DC with Routt there.

Routt was a great #2 when Nnamdi was there, and he suffered as a #1. He won't be asked to be a #1 here, he will be the #2 to Flowers. He will be just fine. You'll see how a DB is really coached up.

You can polish a turd all you want but its still a turd at the end of the day.

vidae
06-13-2012, 10:42 PM
You can polish a turd all you want but its still a turd at the end of the day.

Hey, they all can't be as good as Chris Houston, but we'll try to make do.

Matthew Jones
06-13-2012, 11:28 PM
Hey, they all can't be as good as Chris Houston, but we'll try to make do.

They really can't:

Houston:

45/86 (52.9%), 585 yards, 4 TD, 5 INT, 5 PD, 65.9 rating (2 penalties)

Routt:

48/94 (51.1%), 532 yards, 9 TD, 4 INT, 10 PD, 82.4 rating (17 penalties)

Chris Houston: underrated?!

vidae
06-13-2012, 11:35 PM
Yeah, give me Routt on a Romeo Crennel coached defense over Chris Houston 100 times out of 100. It doesn't shock me that Routt was awful in Oakland because everyone is awful in Oakland.

Scotty D
06-13-2012, 11:44 PM
All I was saying is that you are overestimating the impact of Romeo Crennel.

RaiderDiehard
06-14-2012, 07:36 AM
Routt isn't all that much of a drop-off from Carr. Just sayin'.

Neither is Routt a turd. He's an aggressive corner who suffered mightily last season under the guidance of an incompetent asshole named Chuck Bresnahan.

Brent
06-14-2012, 07:58 AM
All I was saying is that you are overestimating the impact of Romeo Crennel.
I don't know, buffets around Kansas City are raising their prices.

scottyboy
06-14-2012, 08:02 AM
Routt isn't all that much of a drop-off from Carr. Just sayin'.

Neither is Routt a turd. He's an aggressive corner who suffered mightily last season under the guidance of an incompetent asshole named Chuck Bresnahan.

Didn't you hear? When Carr signed with the Cowboys he became a top 5 CB in the league.

Same with Asante now that he's a Falcon.

bigbluedefense
06-14-2012, 08:05 AM
Routt isn't that bad at all. And when evaluating Carr, I noticed he did get help up top a lot, he's good, but he wasn't asked to sink his hips and cover interior routes all that much, he was put in a lot of Cover 2/3 looks where he defended the sidelines.

Carr is good, but his skill set is exaggerated. He's not the second coming.

Routt on the other hand gets killed more than he deserves. They ran a ton of cover 0 man in Oakland, he was left on an island a lot more than Carr was. And he actually covered pretty well for the majority of the time. He just held way too much, but with 0 coverage, what would you rather have, him hold or him get beat and give up a touchdown?

In KC he won't be on that island nearly as much and will be effective.

Pat Sims 90
06-14-2012, 10:36 AM
My Sleeper for the Bengals is whoever ends up as the #2 WR between Armon Binns, Brandon Tate, Mohamed Sanu or Marvin Jones. Teams will be more focused on Green and Gresham.

FUNBUNCHER
06-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Carr and Routt are both more reliable than D Hall. When he gets to face the QB, Hall is a ballhawk. But when he was to turn his back and run with a WR, he's barely a starting caliber corner.

I think Routt has a career year in KC.

vidae
06-14-2012, 11:36 AM
Didn't you hear? When Carr signed with the Cowboys he became a top 5 CB in the league.

Same with Asante now that he's a Falcon.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brandon Carr, but that made me laugh too. I loved seeing those lists with Carr being top 5.

Giantsfan1080
06-14-2012, 12:12 PM
I somehow found out Branon Carr's email address yesterday because of what I do at work. If he does something good against the Giants I will spam the crap out of him.

Roddoliver
06-14-2012, 12:46 PM
TE Joel Dreessen

Brent
06-14-2012, 01:15 PM
I somehow found out Branon Carr's email address yesterday because of what I do at work. If he does something good against the Giants I will spam the crap out of him.
post that email address on Reddit or 4Chan's sports page if you want to get something done

Rosebud
06-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I somehow found out Branon Carr's email address yesterday because of what I do at work. If he does something good against the Giants I will spam the crap out of him.

Now I hope he gets burned for the game winning TDs so you can write him a polite thank you note.

EvilNixon
06-23-2012, 01:41 PM
Romeo Crennel, huge upgrade from whoever you had as a DC with Routt there.

Routt was a great #2 when Nnamdi was there, and he suffered as a #1. He won't be asked to be a #1 here, he will be the #2 to Flowers. He will be just fine. You'll see how a DB is really coached up.

Routt was a horrific #2...he was a horrifically horrific #1....

Caulibflower
06-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Has Golden Tate been mentioned yet in this thread? There's a bit of buzz about him in Seahawk's circles lately, to the tune of "He might be starting opposite Sidney Rice this year." Doug Baldwin will still be in the slot, but don't be too surprised if Tate makes some noise this year.

bigbluedefense
06-23-2012, 07:56 PM
Has Golden Tate been mentioned yet in this thread? There's a bit of buzz about him in Seahawk's circles lately, to the tune of "He might be starting opposite Sidney Rice this year." Doug Baldwin will still be in the slot, but don't be too surprised if Tate makes some noise this year.

They need to figure out that qb spot first. The rest of the team is SB caliber. Yes, Super Bowl caliber.

But they need to figure out qb.

Rosebud
06-23-2012, 08:28 PM
They need to figure out that qb spot first. The rest of the team is SB caliber. Yes, Super Bowl caliber.

But they need to figure out qb.

SB caliber is a bit much unless the solution to their QB problems is a top 5 guy. Rice, Tate and Baldwin isn't exactly elite, the OL, while good isn't great and the defense doesn't have the best pass rush. They're like the chiefs, a very good team with a crappy QB situation, but just a good guy, someone like Schaub or Ryan, wouldn't take them tot he superbowl, even though they could win a playoff game or two with just a solid QB.

Bengals78
06-23-2012, 08:55 PM
first off, LOLOLOLOL at the Raiders for hiring Chuck Bresnaham in the first place.

This Cincinnati defense can be very, very dangerous.
We have a lot of high picks invested there (not all ours) and it will hopefully pay off.
Newman, Jones, Hall, Clements, Nelson, Lawson, Allen, Kirkpatrick, Anderson, Harvey are all first rounders. (I dont expect all of them [Harvey] to make the final roster)
Dunlap, Mays, Maualuga, Still, Howard are 2nd rounders.
Thompson, Johnson and Sims are third rounders.
Peko and Atkins from the 4th round.

Atkins can solidify his rank as a top interior lineman this year. And I think he will.
Dunlap needs to step up and show he is a top pass rusher like his skill set shows flashes of.

The talent is there, but the question is will Zimmer get it all together this season.

Caulibflower
06-23-2012, 09:22 PM
SB caliber is a bit much unless the solution to their QB problems is a top 5 guy. Rice, Tate and Baldwin isn't exactly elite, the OL, while good isn't great and the defense doesn't have the best pass rush. They're like the chiefs, a very good team with a crappy QB situation, but just a good guy, someone like Schaub or Ryan, wouldn't take them tot he superbowl, even though they could win a playoff game or two with just a solid QB.

I don't know how much you've watched the Seahawks, but you're underrating them. They're a team that's very strong across the board, with glaring exceptions (at least last year) at QB and pass rush. They have the best secondary in the NFL. Their linebackers are solid and athletic, and the D-line was great at stopping the run last year despite being poor at rushing the passer. This year that's going to change with the additions of Bruce Irvin and Jason Jones. The thing that people seemed to fail in realizing with the Bruce Irvin pick is that it's not simply that "he won't have to defend the run" as a way of blowing off perceived wekanesses in his game - it's that our run defense is already one of the better ones in the league, and he is literally just going to come in and rush the passer. A nickel D with Clemons on one side, Irvin on the other and Jones in the middle isn't one that O-lines aren't going to like facing, and that's something we didn't have last year. The front office did a good job there.

Our offensive line really came together at the end of last year... missing two of its best players. Okung is going to be back, and when he is, you can tell. He's been injured a lot, but if he puts together a healthy season he's a very solid left tackle. Marshawn's going to do his thing, and hopefully Turbin can keep him fresh. If Turbin shows he's good enough to take the load off of Marshawn earlier in games, he's going to be nasty in the fourth quarter.

But of course, there's quarterback. The front office has probably done enough to turn this from a 7-9 team to a 9-7 team even with Tarvaris Jackson, so if someone beats him out it's pretty easy to see this being a team that wins ten or more games, which is the kind of team you call a Super Bowl contender. Certainly not a "favorite," but a team that's surely in the mix.

Rosebud
06-23-2012, 10:42 PM
I don't know how much you've watched the Seahawks, but you're underrating them. They're a team that's very strong across the board, with glaring exceptions (at least last year) at QB and pass rush. They have the best secondary in the NFL. Their linebackers are solid and athletic, and the D-line was great at stopping the run last year despite being poor at rushing the passer. This year that's going to change with the additions of Bruce Irvin and Jason Jones. The thing that people seemed to fail in realizing with the Bruce Irvin pick is that it's not simply that "he won't have to defend the run" as a way of blowing off perceived wekanesses in his game - it's that our run defense is already one of the better ones in the league, and he is literally just going to come in and rush the passer. A nickel D with Clemons on one side, Irvin on the other and Jones in the middle isn't one that O-lines aren't going to like facing, and that's something we didn't have last year. The front office did a good job there.

Our offensive line really came together at the end of last year... missing two of its best players. Okung is going to be back, and when he is, you can tell. He's been injured a lot, but if he puts together a healthy season he's a very solid left tackle. Marshawn's going to do his thing, and hopefully Turbin can keep him fresh. If Turbin shows he's good enough to take the load off of Marshawn earlier in games, he's going to be nasty in the fourth quarter.

But of course, there's quarterback. The front office has probably done enough to turn this from a 7-9 team to a 9-7 team even with Tarvaris Jackson, so if someone beats him out it's pretty easy to see this being a team that wins ten or more games, which is the kind of team you call a Super Bowl contender. Certainly not a "favorite," but a team that's surely in the mix.

You haven't contradicted me at all. I admitted that they were a very good team despite a very questionable QB situation. I said that SB caliber is a bit much, and I stand by it. I liked the Irvin pick and the Jones pick up, but they still have to show that they'll actually improve that pass rush before my criticism that it's "not the best" goes away. The receivers are still just good and not elite. And the OL still needs to play great to earn that title. Hell in other threads I've talked them up as being a team to look out for as NFC west champs with Flynn and their other additions, I just don't think they're quite SB caliber without an elite QB.

Caulibflower
06-23-2012, 11:05 PM
You haven't contradicted me at all. I admitted that they were a very good team despite a very questionable QB situation. I said that SB caliber is a bit much, and I stand by it. I liked the Irvin pick and the Jones pick up, but they still have to show that they'll actually improve that pass rush before my criticism that it's "not the best" goes away. The receivers are still just good and not elite. And the OL still needs to play great to earn that title. Hell in other threads I've talked them up as being a team to look out for as NFC west champs with Flynn and their other additions, I just don't think they're quite SB caliber without an elite QB.

The other post had said, "The rest of the team is Super Bowl caliber" and you said "That's a bit much." I was saying that while it's true that we are lacking at the most critical position, the rest of the team is good enough to get to the Super Bowl: like you're saying - if a top-5, or really even a top-10 QB shows up in Seattle, that's a team you can't count out against anybody.

Rosebud
06-23-2012, 11:55 PM
The other post had said, "The rest of the team is Super Bowl caliber" and you said "That's a bit much." I was saying that while it's true that we are lacking at the most critical position, the rest of the team is good enough to get to the Super Bowl: like you're saying - if a top-5, or really even a top-10 QB shows up in Seattle, that's a team you can't count out against anybody.

Fair enough. To me a team being SB caliber means they don't need an elite QB to win a SB, just a solid starter, because most teams would be SB caliber if you put Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli or Peyton under center. Teams like this years 9ers and Texans or Rex Grossman's bears, were teams that I'd call SB caliber outside of the QB. The Seahawks could win a SB with a top 10 QB if things go well, but that's not the same as being SB caliber outside of the QB since getting one of those elite or near elite QBS is such a *****, while getting a just competent starter is quite feasible.

gpngc
06-24-2012, 08:02 AM
WR Donnie Avery.

Caddy
06-24-2012, 08:39 AM
This thread has rekindled my love for the word turd

bigbluedefense
06-25-2012, 09:40 PM
The Jaguars defense is another sleeper. They ranked very high this year and they improved in the offseason.

Ross was a great pickup, I love the de they drafted, they get Mathis back, dont sleep on their defense. Its going to be very good. Gabbert's awfulness will detract from it, but that defense should be good.