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Giantsfan1080
07-23-2012, 12:28 PM
I think it's about time for this.

Rutgers players to keep an eye on this year:

CB Logan Ryan
OLB Khaseem Greene
S Duron Harmon
CB Brandon Jones
WR Mark Harrison
ILB Steve Beauharnais
LONGSHOT WR Brandon Coleman

Giantsfan1080
07-25-2012, 09:58 AM
Positions that we might be interested in at this time?

OL
DB
WR
LB

Forenci
07-25-2012, 10:46 AM
Positions that we might be interested in at this time?

OL
DB
WR
LB

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line.

Even if Beatty and Baas do play well, Diehl and Snee aren't getting any younger. I hope Baas and Beatty do well. It'd allow us to (assuming we'll be picking somewhat later in the draft) to take one of those blue chip guards that will fall in the draft because the position isn't valued highly early in the rounds.

Rosebud
07-25-2012, 01:36 PM
OL - Unless the world goes crazy this'll be our biggest weakness, even though Eli will hide the pass blocking problems.
DL - Gonna need a new DE to groom if the plan isn't to move Kiwi back once Osi's gone, even then Tuck's getting older so adding another high upside but raw DE into the pipeline wouldn't be unwise. DT is still a question mark to.
LB - Need a stud mike, otherwise I like our depth outside
DB - A lot of question marks about who'll still be here in 3 years, so adding another talent to the defensive backfield is probably not a bad call.

scottyboy
07-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Steve Beauharnis is such an awesome thumping LB, but would probably fit best in the middle of a 3-4.

Logan Ryan is the next studly Rutgers corner, but with Webster, Prince and TT, I doubt corner is an early priority. Who're the top OT prospects? Oline, I feel we all agree, should be our #1 concern going into next offseason

BigBlueNorwegian
07-25-2012, 07:31 PM
I want us to focus on the trenches as it stands today. But who knows what we'll end up with come April. Either way I trust Jerry Reese and Marc Ross. They are awesome at drafting and scouting.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-10-2012, 05:48 PM
If the opportunity presented itself this upcoming draft, I want us to trade up big and get a blue-chip left tackle. I think our roster is pretty stacked with talent all over as it stands right now. We have enough talent at every position other than CB and OL in my opinion. And good CBs can be had in the later rounds.

So what do you think? Say if we pick in the mid-twenties or something like that, and we get an opportunity to trade into the top 10 to get our LT for the future. Do we go for it, knowing it will probably cost us our 1st, 2nd and probably a late rounder as well?

I think we should, if the right guy is available. We have to get better blocking up front. Both for the benefit of the running game, and to protect Eli, as he's going into his mid-thirties.

scottyboy
09-10-2012, 06:03 PM
LOGAN RYAN LOGAN RYAN LOGAN RYAN

or Khaseem to eventually replace Boley and Rivers. God that'd be sex.

but yeah, a nice blue chip OL guy would be awesome.

Round 1: Stud OT
Round 2: Corner
Round 3: Khaseem.

perfection

D-Unit
09-10-2012, 06:07 PM
OL - Unless the world goes crazy this'll be our biggest weakness, even though Eli will hide the pass blocking problems.
DL - Gonna need a new DE to groom if the plan isn't to move Kiwi back once Osi's gone, even then Tuck's getting older so adding another high upside but raw DE into the pipeline wouldn't be unwise. DT is still a question mark to.
LB - Need a stud mike, otherwise I like our depth outside
DB - A lot of question marks about who'll still be here in 3 years, so adding another talent to the defensive backfield is probably not a bad call.
Would you guys target Anthony Spencer in FA?

scottyboy
09-10-2012, 06:12 PM
Would you guys target Anthony Spencer in FA?

I doubt it. We're tight on cash as it is. We like Tracy and Ojomo enough to keep both on the 53 (5 DE's), will have Tuck and JPP and ever reliable Kiwi could move back there (if we bring him back too).

Maybe on a cheap Martellus type of deal, but I think we draft one round 4 or something to bring in for Tuck's insurance

Giantsfan1080
09-10-2012, 08:23 PM
3rd round does sound right for Greene about now.

As of now I'd be fine with any position in the 1st.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-06-2012, 11:41 AM
I always love the draft but I got to admit the FA signings and re-signings interest me more. Where do we invest? Who is a long term guy and who won't fit the long term model?

scottyboy
10-07-2012, 11:08 AM
i want that matt elam kid, good lord he's a baller at safety for Florida

bigbluedefense
11-15-2012, 02:11 PM
Well, now that we're more than halfway through the season, I think it's time to identify needs:

On offense, we need:

OG
RT

That's pretty much it. I think we should re-sign Bennett. I think WR is not a need bc Randle steps up in year 2. I also expect us to re-sign both Cruz and Nicks so no worries there. RB is not a need, we have Brown and Wilson for the future. Beatty has surprisingly stepped up at LT and that is not a need at the moment. And we obviously don't need a qb.

Defense:

DT
DE
MIKE
SAM
CB
Possibly S


So long story short, we need a lot of defensive talent. We have NO DTs. Joseph is the only one, and we might lose him. Canty will be a cap casualty. Bernard is old and sucks. Austin sucks. Kuhn is meh. We literally have no DTs at all. Major concern.

With Osi most likely walking away, Tuck being a shell of his former self (I strongly believe we should not re-sign him), and Kiwi coming back to the DL in all likelihood, we could use another DE in our rotation. I like Tracy and Ojomo, but we do not know enough about them to rely on them.

Our linebackers suck. Let's be brutally honest about it. All that great "depth" we raved about in the offseason, it sucks. Herzlich is a backup. Rivers is never healthy and likely gone. Boley is strictly a coverage LB. The only good young LB we have is Jacquan Williams. Paysinger is a solid backup, that's it.

We NEED LINEBACKERS. I've been saying it all season, we are a terrible tackling defense. That starts with the LB core. We need linebackers who can tackle, and shed blocks. We don't have any right now. WE NEED LINEBACKERS.

We also need a CB. Corey is done. I believe in Prince and Hosely, but we need another guy on the outside to groom as Corey's replacement. If we lose Kenny, we need a safety.

AcheTen (Thumper)
11-15-2012, 02:24 PM
If you start going down the road of "WE NEED POSITION X", and start drafting for need, you become a mediocre team.

As bad as the "need" for LBers may look, it would be foolish to draft one in the 1st or 2nd round just to fill a purported "need".

If Jerry Reese is smart, he will go BPA on OL or DL or DB or WR in the first round. LB is one of the least important positions on the 4-3 defense and capable players can always be found in free agency or in the later rounds of the draft.

If Manti Teo was sitting there when the Giants picked in the 1st round, honestly, if I were Reese I would actually pick someone like Jarvis Jones or Damontre Moore or Jonathan Hankins over him.

bigbluedefense
11-15-2012, 02:27 PM
If you start going down the road of "WE NEED POSITION X", and start drafting for need, you become a mediocre team.

As bad as the "need" for LBers may look, it would be foolish to draft one in the 1st or 2nd round just to fill a purported "need".

If Jerry Reese is smart, he will go BPA on OL or DL or DB or WR in the first round. LB is one of the least important positions on the 4-3 defense and capable players can always be found in free agency or in the later rounds of the draft.

I agree, I don't agree with filling needs at all costs. I believe in the board. But look at that list. We have a lot of needs. Realistically, the highest graded player on our board could very well fill any 1 of those needs listed.

If the best guy on the board is a Guard, I'm fine with it. We need a guard. If it's a CB, cool, we need a CB. A DE, I'm fine with that. A DT, etc.

In a perfect world we get a linebacker who is the highest graded player on our board, but I do believe in sticking to our board.

Rosebud
11-15-2012, 02:27 PM
So do we have no DTs or is Joseph the only one?...

Giantsfan1080
11-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Sounds about right BBD. Can't really disagree with anything you said in that post.

Giantsfan1080
11-15-2012, 02:29 PM
So do we have no DTs or is Joseph the only one?...

As far as I'm concerned Joseph really is the only one.

bigbluedefense
11-15-2012, 02:31 PM
So do we have no DTs or is Joseph the only one?...

Joseph is the only one. My concern is we might lose him to FA which would result in us having absolutely none left.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-15-2012, 05:17 PM
Stick to our board. I am down for going offensive trench player in the first round if he is the highest rated player. I really hope so! Defensive players are a need, however, I feel like no matter who we get, they would stink in these scheme.

BigBlueNorwegian
11-16-2012, 02:31 PM
We better find a way to re-sign Joseph, with the way our other DTs look. I really want that Bjoern Werner kid. He just looks like a typical Giants DE. Other than him, I don't really have any personal favorites yet, at least that is outside the top 10-15 picks, which I hope we won't be picking inside.

Malaka
11-16-2012, 02:40 PM
We better find a way to re-sign Joseph, with the way our other DTs look. I really want that Bjoern Werner kid. He just looks like a typical Giants DE. Other than him, I don't really have any personal favorites yet, at least that is outside the top 10-15 picks, which I hope we won't be picking inside.

Werner might be exactly where we are picking so he's a definite possibility. I am not in love with FSU DEs although he is sort of a different breed.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-16-2012, 05:49 PM
I don't want another DE. I hope we go another position. Maybe draft a defensive coordinator? I think whoever on defense we get the scheme will stink and expose peoples play.

OSUGiants17
11-16-2012, 06:32 PM
I have a huge hard-on for Sheldon Williams the DT from Missouri. Just thought I'd share

Malaka
11-16-2012, 06:45 PM
I don't want another DE. I hope we go another position. Maybe draft a defensive coordinator? I think whoever on defense we get the scheme will stink and expose peoples play.

With awful Osi looks in the run, and how awful Tuck looks all together... I really would not be opposed if he is truly the BPA.

JPP and Kiwanuka could probably work... for a limited time...

Rosebud
11-16-2012, 08:53 PM
JPP, Kiwi, Tracy and Ojomo isn't bad. But if we get a chance at a potential monster I'm all for it.

Giantsfan1080
11-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Who knows how good Tracy and Ojomo are though?

Rosebud
11-16-2012, 10:00 PM
Who knows how good Tracy and Ojomo are though?

The coaching staff and JR.

Giantsfan1080
11-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Meh. You and I are the most positive here but I can't even go that far. Who knows what they bring.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-16-2012, 10:07 PM
JPP, Kiwi, Tracy and Ojomo isn't bad. But if we get a chance at a potential monster I'm all for it.


That's what I was thinking. But why don't we actually get a better scheme. We rely way too much on the front 4. It's almost like there is the front 4 and if they are not effective, we are screwed because our scheme is pathetic!

I'd rather not worry about our front 4 because of the people above, and get a better scheme. Realistically, TC won't get rid of Fewell, but we can hope someone offers him a job. I am waiting for a DC to give us a good aggressive scheme.

Giantsfan1080
11-16-2012, 10:10 PM
DL will work it soon.

Rosebud
11-16-2012, 10:21 PM
The DL isn't playing great right now because the players aren't executing. Right now JPP and Joseph are our only DL I expect to play well in any given game. That's not a scheme thing.

As for Ojomo and Tracy, I don't expect much from them, but if JR and TC think they're legit I won't doubt them. If they don't think they're legit, they won't rely on them.

OSUGiants17
12-15-2012, 03:22 PM
I want Khaseem Greene so bad in the 2nd round. I think with him and Williams set up as our OLBs of the future we could develop a strong group of LBs. Add in Herz or if he doesn't pan out another MIKE and I love it. My current ideal draft is below

Rosebud
12-15-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm down with Ansah, not in love with him like some people in this board, but the kid has the tools to be a prime Justin Tuck, if we pick him I'll be very confident in him making good on those tools. The way JPP is making good on all of his raw talent.

AcheTen (Thumper)
12-18-2012, 11:17 AM
I think the Giants should target Star Lotulelei to bolster the interior of their D-Line.

IF they can't grab Star, they should try to trade up for Bjoern Werner. I like Werner more than the other DEs in this draft. He's all effort with a surprisingly high level of athleticism.

Forenci
12-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Both guys will likely be far out of our pick range and Reese wouldn't trade up far enough to get them, in my opinion.

bigbluedefense
12-18-2012, 12:35 PM
I don't think we should fall in love with 1 prospect in particular in this draft. It's pretty deep in several positions of need and we should just go after the BPA in any of those positions.

We're gonna have a lot of needs come draft day so just go BPA based on front 7 and OL players on the board.

If a G is the best guy, take him. We need a Guard. If an OT is, take him, we need an OT. A DE, DT, LB. DB. We have options.

Just take the best guy from those positions.

Big_Pete
12-18-2012, 03:10 PM
We certainly do have options.

the salary cap is likely to be tight so that will have an impact for sure.

I think we have around 21 players coming off contract, there are also quite a few veterans who are being overpaid, so there is going to be change in the roster next year.

We do need to take the best player available with each pick. We are lucky that there are likely be plenty of talent at the main positions we are looking for.

Big_Pete
12-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Going by Scott's current rankings, I would expect our first three rounds could look something like:

1. DE Ezekiel Ansah, BYU (DC #10 Senior)

2. OL Barrett Jones, Alabama (DC #26 Senior)

3. LB Chase Thomas, Stanford (DC #53 Senior)

Forenci
12-18-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't think we should fall in love with 1 prospect in particular in this draft. It's pretty deep in several positions of need and we should just go after the BPA in any of those positions.

We're gonna have a lot of needs come draft day so just go BPA based on front 7 and OL players on the board.

If a G is the best guy, take him. We need a Guard. If an OT is, take him, we need an OT. A DE, DT, LB. DB. We have options.

Just take the best guy from those positions.

Oh I agree completely. I'm a big believer in that philosophy and so is Reese. Just take the best pick that fits a relative need.

Big_Pete
12-19-2012, 03:20 PM
Just thinking a little outside the box...

If Manti Teo is available around 10 (as im Scott's mock), is it worth us considering trading up for him (for the right price)?

It is quite possibly he is one of the top prospects in the entire draft. He is a genuinely special talent has rare ability, much like Urlacher
I think Teo would allow us more flexibility and dramatically improve how our entire defence plays regardless of the scheme we use.

Sure we need help in other positions as well, but we can address them in later rounds.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 03:27 PM
Just thinking a little outside the box...

If Manti Teo is available around 10 (as im Scott's mock), is it worth us considering trading up for him (for the right price)?

It is quite possibly he is one of the top prospects in the entire draft. He has the ability, much like Urlacher did for the Bears, to allow us more flexibility and dramatically improve how our entire defence plays.

Sure we need help in other positions as well, but we can address them in later rounds.

If we were gonna do that, I wish we did it for Luke Keuchly, bc he was the sex on top of sex on top of Ray Rice's thighs.

Manti...I'm torn on him right now. I need to thoroughly scout him before I pass judgement. Part of me thinks he can be Brian Cushing, the other part of me thinks he could be a solid but not spectacular LB. Depends on his combine numbers.

But with all of our needs, I don't think we can afford to trade up this year. We have a lot of needs, this team needs to get overhauled soon, and we can't afford the luxury of going after 1 player.

Forenci
12-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Manti is a good player, but like most ND players he's getting a big boost from the Notre Dame hype machine.

Big_Pete
12-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Manti is a good player, but like most ND players he's getting a big boost from the Notre Dame hype machine.

Perhaps,

I looked at it from what he can do.

Just looking at it, he is probably the one player that can pretty much instantly impact and upgrade our defence.

It does depend on value but it seems like an option.

Big_Pete
12-19-2012, 04:30 PM
But with all of our needs, I don't think we can afford to trade up this year. We have a lot of needs, this team needs to get overhauled soon, and we can't afford the luxury of going after 1 player.

In general I do agree with you.

But you could have easily made the same argument in 2004 when we traded up for Eli. I will admit I didn't like that trade, but you can't argue with the results. We have built the offense around Eli and been successful.

I guess the question is whether Teo the kind of player we can build our defence around? and how much would it cost to trade up.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 04:35 PM
In general I do agree with you.

But you could have easily made the same argument in 2004 when we traded up for Eli. I will admit I didn't like that trade, but you can't argue with the results. We have built the offense around Eli and been successful.

I guess the question is whether Teo the kind of player we can build our defence around? and how much would it cost to trade up.

QB is really the only position you should trade the farm for. This is a linebacker we're talking about.

As much as I loved Luke last year, and boy do I love Luke, look at who was available at LB in round 2 in the same draft:

-Michael Kendricks
-Bobby Wagner
-Lavonte David


All of whom would do great for us. Of the 3 Wagner would make the most sense bc he has the size we like and he's a MIKE.

But the point remains, you can find linebackers. We just do an awful job of scouting LBs as an organization but they're out there to have.

This draft is actually pretty good at LB, no need to sell the farm for 1.

Big_Pete
12-19-2012, 04:44 PM
QB is really the only position you should trade the farm for. This is a linebacker we're talking about.

As much as I loved Luke last year, and boy do I love Luke, look at who was available at LB in round 2 in the same draft:

-Michael Kendricks
-Bobby Wagner
-Lavonte David


All of whom would do great for us. Of the 3 Wagner would make the most sense bc he has the size we like and he's a MIKE.

But the point remains, you can find linebackers. We just do an awful job of scouting LBs as an organization but they're out there to have.

This draft is actually pretty good at LB, no need to sell the farm for 1.

That was my thinking previously, I just wanted to through the idea out there.

I was a big fan of Kendricks last year to be honest.

There are a lot of good LBs this year. Alot of them are undersized, but I guess that is the trend.
One player I am intrigued by as a MLB prospect for us is Chase Thomas, I suspect he may be more athletic.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 04:51 PM
Khaseem Greene in the 2nd
Logan Ryan in the 3rd
Fapping time the rest of the draft.

If Ryan comes out I'm going to be way more annoying on us taking him than I was with Sanu last year.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 04:56 PM
Depends on Ryan's 40 time for me. Its hard to gauge how good he really is when he didn't play elite competition in the Big East.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 05:02 PM
His 40 is what's going to make him drop to late 2nd/3rd round. It's his weak spot but he' the real deal. Great all around CB.

Forenci
12-19-2012, 05:21 PM
QB is really the only position you should trade the farm for. This is a linebacker we're talking about.

As much as I loved Luke last year, and boy do I love Luke, look at who was available at LB in round 2 in the same draft:

-Michael Kendricks
-Bobby Wagner
-Lavonte David


All of whom would do great for us. Of the 3 Wagner would make the most sense bc he has the size we like and he's a MIKE.

But the point remains, you can find linebackers. We just do an awful job of scouting LBs as an organization but they're out there to have.

This draft is actually pretty good at LB, no need to sell the farm for 1.

I actually think we do a pretty decent job drafting LB and finding LB's in free agency considering we rarely take one above the fourth round.

Actually, looking back, the only LB we've taken above the fourth round (under Ross) is Clint Sintim, and I'm not sure we would really consider that a linebacker pick considering how we converted to DE almost immediately.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Sintim was a DE who he converted to LB.

Forenci
12-19-2012, 05:56 PM
Yeah, I basically don't consider him a LB as a pick, even if it might have been technically.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Starting my early scouting on some of these LBs.

So far:

Arthur Brown looks good, but hes a little light. Reminds me of Lavonte David a little. Long arms, but he's short and thin. Good instincts, great tackler. Ok in coverage. This is early, I haven't seen much yet.

Gerald Hodges has tremendous instincts, both in the run and pass game. He's very good in coverage, great in zone defense, he covers his zones and glides btw players with ease. He's built for zone defense, he's very good in zone defense, and he's very good in man coverage with Backs out of the backfield as well. Tremendous instincts. He dissects plays very well and is always in position to make a play. BUT, so far I'm not thrilled with his tackling. And I'm gonna try to make tackling the main focal point of my scouting for defenders this year.

Khasim: You already know. Only concern is size.

Big_Pete
12-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Starting my early scouting on some of these LBs.

So far:

Arthur Brown looks good, but hes a little light. Reminds me of Lavonte David a little. Long arms, but he's short and thin. Good instincts, great tackler. Ok in coverage. This is early, I haven't seen much yet.

Gerald Hodges has tremendous instincts, both in the run and pass game. He's very good in coverage, great in zone defense, he covers his zones and glides btw players with ease. He's built for zone defense, he's very good in zone defense, and he's very good in man coverage with Backs out of the backfield as well. Tremendous instincts. He dissects plays very well and is always in position to make a play. BUT, so far I'm not thrilled with his tackling. And I'm gonna try to make tackling the main focal point of my scouting for defenders this year.

Khasim: You already know. Only concern is size.

Thanks BBD,

Im curious on your thoughts on Chase Thomas

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 07:16 PM
Thanks BBD,

Im curious on your thoughts on Chase Thomas

Don't know a thing about him yet. Just starting to look at guys but I'm far from done. I'm just gathering names and looking at what I can.

Big_Pete
12-31-2012, 04:45 PM
Well it's official, our draft picks for 2013 are

19
51
83
115
147
179
211

plus any compensation picks we might get.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2013, 11:56 AM
I really want a pass rusher. But to be fair, I love scouting pass rushers every year so I am a bit biased.

I'm not gonna waste my time scouting WRs or RBs, I don't see us taking any. Not gonna scout TEs either.

I'm gonna scout DEs, DTs, LBs, CBs, OTs, OGs.

I think that's what we're looking at and that's where we should draft our players.

I hate drafting DTs early nowadays bc of the high bust rate, so I'm more looking at 2nd and 3rd round value guys at DT. I believe in drafting DEs and CBs high, so I'm looking at the 1st round talent there. OT and OG I'll do the same, because if an OT or OG is by far BPA on the board in round 1 I think we should pull the trigger.

I'd prefer grabbing a LB in round 2, but I'll also scout the round 1 guys. I want a LB in the first 3 rounds. I think this is a must.

Ideally, I want to go:

1. DE
2. LB
3. OG
4 - 7 BPA regardless of position.

Forenci
01-01-2013, 12:24 PM
For me it's just BPA that fits a need. We do it every year so I'm not surprised. Whatever our main needs are, pick the best player available at that position.

19 is a good pick. We can get a really good player at that spot.

OSUGiants17
01-01-2013, 12:59 PM
BBD you might want to look at safety too, you never know if KP is coming back and even if he does we could use someone behind him if we don't feel comfortable in Will Hill/Sash taking over if he goes down again.

OSUGiants17
01-01-2013, 01:03 PM
Also, if he is there, how would you guys feel about Jonathan Hankins as our pick?

bigbluedefense
01-01-2013, 01:27 PM
If we re-sign KP, then I'm fine with the safety position. But if not, then it definitely becomes a need. I don't believe in Stevie Brown. He's a flash in the pan.

OSUGiants17
01-01-2013, 02:40 PM
Brown is nothing more than opportunistic, he isn't a starting safety and you know he is going to be overpaid this offseason. Let him walk, resign KP cheap and draft a safety in the later rounds

Giantsfan1080
01-01-2013, 04:44 PM
Brown is a RFA. He'll most likely be back next year.

Damix
01-02-2013, 09:09 AM
Give him a 3rd round tender and hopefully someone bites.

Tehzl
01-07-2013, 07:44 PM
Hey guys, I am new here to the forum, so nice to meet you all. Now question, it seems most of you really like Khaseem Greene, and that some of you guys here are Rutgers fans. I don't really watch college football, so I was wondering if you guys could go into more detail about why you like him, and maybe even compare him to a current player in the league. Lastly what position would he be playing? In the middle, or maybe taking over for Kiwanuka.

Big_Pete
01-07-2013, 10:06 PM
Hey guys, I am new here to the forum, so nice to meet you all. Now question, it seems most of you really like Khaseem Greene, and that some of you guys here are Rutgers fans. I don't really watch college football, so I was wondering if you guys could go into more detail about why you like him, and maybe even compare him to a current player in the league. Lastly what position would he be playing? In the middle, or maybe taking over for Kiwanuka.

I really like Khaseem Greene as a prospect, but he is purely a 4-3 WLB in my opinion.

We already have Jaquain Williams, Spencer Paysinger and Michael Boley who play WLB. I guess the jury is out as to whether Boley returns, but I just don't see the major need for Greene to invest a 2nd round pick.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 07:23 AM
Don't forget in Fewell's system the Will is actually the Strong.

Forenci
01-08-2013, 08:42 AM
Hopefully Fewell won't be here long enough for that to matter though.

Greene is alright, just way too undersized for my liking. I'd much rather invest in a corner, D-Linemen or offensive linemen in the second round.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 08:44 AM
You need smaller faster LB's in today's NFL though.

scottyboy
01-08-2013, 09:04 AM
and greene plays bigger than he is. lets not forget it's only his 2nd year at the position and he couldn't bulk up much this past offseason because he was rehabbing off a freak ankle injury. He can play SAM if need be I feel, but will be an animal of a WILL for whoever drafts him. Great instincts, can still cover like a safety and hits like a mofo

Forenci
01-08-2013, 09:14 AM
I mean, that's fine, I just disagree. I think he's too small and not nearly strong enough to play to position. He'll be a solid player but not great, in my opinion. I wouldn't be extremely upset if we took him in the second, but I think there are better, more high upside linebackers to consider than Greene.

Although I personally wouldn't bother taking any LB in the second round this year. Too many other concerns and too much depth at other positions to not try and hit on some of those areas.

scottyboy
01-08-2013, 09:36 AM
i agree with your take on the giants, not on greene, obviously. I think a guy like Greene or Arthur Brown would be AWESOME to have, but I'm more concerned up fron on the Dline. that's my biggest concern heading forward

Rosebud
01-08-2013, 10:25 AM
Yup, get some big uglies and maybe a corner.

Big_Pete
01-08-2013, 06:28 PM
Here is my thinking of the kind of thing I would like to see on draft day for the Giants.

1 (19): Manti Teo, LB Notre Dame

2 (49): Logan Ryan, CB Rutgers

3 (81): Justin Pugh, T Syracuse

4 (113): Alvin Bailey, G Arkansas

5 (145): Joe Kruger, DE Utah

6 (177): Tyrann Mathieu, CB LSU

7 (209): Russell Shepard, WR LSU

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 02:30 PM
What do you guys think Ryan is gonna run at the combine? I wasn't as big on Ryan as GF and Scotty were. He screams Cover 2 CB to me as his ceiling.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2013, 02:33 PM
Ryan can play man or zone equally well. He's just an all around very good CB in any scheme. I think he winds up running a 4.5-4.6.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 02:36 PM
Ryan can play man or zone equally well. He's just an all around very good CB in any scheme. I think he winds up running a 4.5-4.6.

I can live wit 4.5. If he's there in the 2nd round and he ran a 4.5 I'd love him.

4.6 makes him undraftable to me.

Forenci
01-09-2013, 02:36 PM
Yeah 4.6 is too slow. 4.5 is doable because of his great size.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2013, 02:37 PM
The .1 of a second won't change my mind. I've seen him play enough to know at worst he'll be a very good #2 or even a very good S.

Forenci
01-09-2013, 02:39 PM
.1 is a huge difference when running the 40. The difference between a 4.3 and a 4.4 is huge. Likewise, the same applies for a 4.5 and 4.6. 4.6 is almost purely a cover 2 guy.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2013, 02:45 PM
He has great technique. It makes up for any lack of speed.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 02:52 PM
The thing that scares me about Logan is he was never tested. He didn't really have to go against any studs in college.

Combine that with his lack of speed and I'm just not sure on him. I'm gonna study him hard at the combine. I want to see how he does during the drills, his speed, and I want to see how he drops his hips.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2013, 02:55 PM
He has great fluidity with his hips. That's why I'm not worried about his speed. He's definitely not going to be one of the better timed CB's that's for sure. He has a nose for the ball and is great in run support. Also, he's gone up against some very good WR's and shut them down.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 03:07 PM
I wish we could get this Dion Jordan character. I've seen a couple of games worth so far and I think he has potential.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 03:26 PM
Dion Jordan is going to be an animal. His shoulder injury could make him last to us in the 1st. I'd be very approving of it.

Logan's going to be a solid guy. Perhaps a career #2 but he'll be solid. Not a playmaker really though.

I've also never seen him miss a tackle. His run support is a huge asset.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
If Eric Fisher turns out to be the same in skill set as Joe Staley, then I hope we draft him. This Barrett Jones has impressed me. He is a hard worker, smart, and played 3 positions. The way our OL gets hurt, that's very good versatility.

However, if he pushed Eli like he did to AJ, Snee would kill him.

Forenci
01-09-2013, 04:33 PM
I don't know. I just prefer my players picked in the first and second round to be really high upside guys. I feel like Ryan will be a good, solid #2 like Scottyboy said. I want more than that though.

Rosebud
01-09-2013, 04:43 PM
I just want us to focus on the trenches. This draft has so many excellent OL and DL that we could walk away with a JPP partner, a decade long starter at LG to be our new Snee and a DT capable of pushing Canty and Joseph for their starting spots, if the board breaks right for us. A corner would be nice, and there's some really good ones, but with all of the gifted Lineman in this draft, some really special players will get pushed down the board.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 05:26 PM
if front 7 isn't addressed in the first 2 rounds, I'll be upset.

Unless it's like an OL and Logan or something, but still.

Although Lewan staying in school lowers a chance of a good OT round 1 for us, really

Forenci
01-09-2013, 05:28 PM
Personally I don't care to draft a LB. I'm a big believer in you can get away with average/solid linebackers if you have a great defensive front and secondary.

With the inception of pass heavy offenses and the spread into the NFL the value of the linebacker has plummeted.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2013, 06:00 PM
Like I said I think a hulking DT helping the middle will help the LB corps that we have.

OSUGiants17
01-09-2013, 06:05 PM
Like I said I think a hulking DT helping the middle will help the LB corps that we have.

I would love to improve both. Get a guy like Sheldon Richardson round 1 or if Big Hank falls(which I doubt) take him and get Khaseem Greene or Kevin Minter round 2. Move Kiwi back to DE and have him and Tuck split time lining up across from JPP with Ojomo, Tracy and a later round DE as our depth with Linval, Canty and Richardson/Hank in the middle.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 06:20 PM
Personally I don't care to draft a LB. I'm a big believer in you can get away with average/solid linebackers if you have a great defensive front and secondary.

With the inception of pass heavy offenses and the spread into the NFL the value of the linebacker has plummeted.

I think that's a myth. With the proliferation of the athletic TE and all these read options, and slot WRs and spread offenses making their way to the NFL, linebackers who can cover and stuff the run are a premium.

Linebackers cover the middle of the field. If you can't defend the middle, you're not gonna be a good defense. Look at SF, great linebackers. Seattle has great linebackers. Chicago, great linebackers. Look at how much Dallas' defense improved with Lee and Carter in the middle.

Linebackers are important. DBs aren't the only ones who cover. If you have LBs who can cover and can stay on the field for 3 downs you have a huge advantage schematically.

Forenci
01-09-2013, 06:27 PM
It really just depends on who you play week to week. It's become easier and more favorable to pass in this league, meaning it makes sense to acquirer players who can stop that. How do you do that? Get to the quarterback and keep his targets covered. Linebackers can only do so much, depending on the team and defensive scheme.

The 49ers have superb edge rushers too. Aldon isn't really a LB in the true sense as he's clearly a pass rusher. Justin Smith is quite good too. They haven't been the same without him. They've also gotten very good secondary play. Willis and Bowman get a lot of hype but I honestly don't think they're the two most important pieces on that defense. Maybe not even top 3.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 06:33 PM
I think the SF secondary is actually pretty average. The coverage they get from Willis and Bow coupled with the pass rush they get up front is the reason why they're so good.

Willis and Bow completely eliminate the middle of the field by themselves, which allows them to play umbrella shells on the back end and take away the sidelines.

It's not a black and white picture you paint. Linebackers cover just as much as DBs do. And they're also your first line of defense vs YAC. Which is becoming more and more important nowadays bc of the spread and read option.

Forenci
01-09-2013, 06:37 PM
They're great players, but I could certainly argue that Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, Carlos Rogers and Goldson have been just as essential to that defense than Bowman and Willis.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 06:49 PM
Rogers is kind of overrated, and Gholdson is definitely overrated. Rogers didn't have a great season. Gholdson is good but he gets a lot of freedom to do things other safeties don't get to do.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 09:20 PM
I think that's a myth. With the proliferation of the athletic TE and all these read options, and slot WRs and spread offenses making their way to the NFL, linebackers who can cover and stuff the run are a premium.

Linebackers cover the middle of the field. If you can't defend the middle, you're not gonna be a good defense. Look at SF, great linebackers. Seattle has great linebackers. Chicago, great linebackers. Look at how much Dallas' defense improved with Lee and Carter in the middle.

Linebackers are important. DBs aren't the only ones who cover. If you have LBs who can cover and can stay on the field for 3 downs you have a huge advantage schematically.


I agree, you only need to look at at the top 4-3 defences with teams like Seattle, Chicago, Denver, Cincinnati; they have all invested multiple premium (top 3 round) draft picks at LB.

The way the NFL is these days, if you don't have talented LBs they are basicalluy a liability waiting to be exploited, particularly with a 4-3 defence. In the past we have been able to compensate with a premier pass rush, but once teams adjust to manage that, we have issues.

In Buffalo Fewell still had Poslunzy and Mitchell (both 2nd round picks).

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 11:35 AM
I think from a philosophical standpoint, our approach to defense has been flawed in some ways.

We built our defense outside in. Heavy emphasis on DEs and CBs. In a passing league, this makes sense.

However, we have pretty much completely ignored the middle of the defense. No linebackers, no DTs. I have no problem with the outside in approach, but there has to be SOME investment inside.

Our lack of investment to the middle of our defense is why we are such a poor tackling defense, and why we're not good against the run.

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2013, 11:38 AM
I don't think we've completely ignored the middle. We drafted LJ high and signed Canty to a huge contract. The depth at DT is what hurt. It's pretty much impossible to have good depth everywhere on the team though.

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 11:45 AM
Plus a first round pick on Kenny and a big contract for Rolle. We've really just neglected LB and even there we paid up for Boley and AP before him.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 11:48 AM
And I have no problem with that. I think you can get away with 3 good DTs on the roster. The problem is, right now we have 1 good DT in Joseph who's contract is coming up, an aging Canty who might get cut bc of his salary, and a bust draft pick in Marvin Austin.

We didn't do a good enough job of replenishing our rotation. Busts will hurt you and Marvin Austin hurt us in this situation.

And we just don't do a good job of drafting linebackers or identifying ones that should get drafted. Think about how many good linebackers we passed on in the draft for mediocre talent elsewhere.

Whatever the reason may be, I think this draft does need to focus on the middle of the defense. It just has to. Our depth in the middle is severely lacking.

Now if a great DE prospect is available, I'm all for it, bc I believe our pass rush is what makes our defense tick. If a supreme CB is available, fine, let's do it. Can never have too many of those.

But if neither are on the board, and there isn't a OLmen on the board who is BPA, then we better go after a LB or DT with our pick bc we desperately need them.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 11:49 AM
Plus a first round pick on Kenny and a big contract for Rolle. We've really just neglected LB and even there we paid up for Boley and AP before him.

I consider them outside players. DBs are outside players.

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
That's the thing though LB gets neglected cause there's and always will be higher priorities. Right now it's our lack of tackles, the coming transition at DE, replacing Corey and our aging and unspectacular OL. If equal prospects we need to fill those positions before we can grab a LB.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 12:04 PM
1. Jordan/Ansah
2. Ryan (if he runs 4.5)
3. Gerald Hodges
4. OG

Boom.

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 12:14 PM
1. Jordan/Ansah
2. Ryan (if he runs 4.5)
3. Gerald Hodges
4. OG

Boom.

And what sign Dorsey on top of resigning Joseph and keeping Canty?

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 12:15 PM
And what sign Dorsey on top of resigning Joseph and keeping Canty?

Where's the money gonna come from? The sky?

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
Where's the money gonna come from? The sky?

Exactly my point. Even in your best case for taking a LB scenario we end up ****** at DT.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 12:23 PM
Exactly my point. Even in your best case for taking a LB scenario we end up ****** at DT.

Dorsey is **** to begin with. I don't care if he was a high draft pick 5 years ago.

We just need able bodies at DT who can stuff the run. Cheap bodies can be found.

Now ideally I want a great DT bc we need to clean up the middle, I agree with you there. But the bust rate for DTs scare me. And I really think LB can't be ignored any longer.

So if I have a choice btw LB or DT, I'm taking LB, which is going against my general philosophy. But I'm just tired of passing on linebackers.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 12:26 PM
We need both DTs and LBs. I just get scared of drafting DTs bc of the bust rate.

And for what it's worth, I think in general DTs don't impact the game. There's maybe 4 or 5 DTs in the entire league that impact the game. The rest are lane cloggers for the most part.

A LB impacts the game more. Especially when we take our DTs off the field on 3rd down.

I understand the need for a DT, but I don't want to spend a high draft pick on one. I think it's a diminishing return.

Damix
01-10-2013, 12:52 PM
We need both DTs and LBs. I just get scared of drafting DTs bc of the bust rate.

And for what it's worth, I think in general DTs don't impact the game. There's maybe 4 or 5 DTs in the entire league that impact the game. The rest are lane cloggers for the most part.

A LB impacts the game more. Especially when we take our DTs off the field on 3rd down.

I understand the need for a DT, but I don't want to spend a high draft pick on one. I think it's a diminishing return.

I completely agree with this, but unless we get a top pick LB, he'll be riding the bench the entire year.

The whole sit and learn for a year is great when we don't have holes to plug, but right now we have a ton.

I wish there was an Antonio Pierce we could sign to man the middle for us, but the options just aren't out there.

Thats why I'd be ok with a DE, CB or OL first round.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 01:21 PM
I completely agree with this, but unless we get a top pick LB, he'll be riding the bench the entire year.

The whole sit and learn for a year is great when we don't have holes to plug, but right now we have a ton.

I wish there was an Antonio Pierce we could sign to man the middle for us, but the options just aren't out there.

Thats why I'd be ok with a DE, CB or OL first round.

I think part of the reason why we had guys sit and learn is because we had the luxury to allow them that opportunity. For a long while we were one of the deeper teams in the league.

But we don't have that luxury in certain positions, and I think they would play more given our circumstances. Look at 07, our rookies had immediate impact bc we needed them to.

Also, you never draft a player for 1 year. Every player you draft has to be a long term decision. If LB is there and he's a great player, take him. Who cares if he sits a year, he'll start the next year.

Look at David Wilson. He sat this year. But he'll play significant minutes this coming season, and pretty much wipes RB off the board. Same with Randle. If we don't draft those 2 last year, RB and WR are needs this year. If we don't draft a LB bc we're afraid of him sitting, then it will always be a need and will never be solved bc we keep pushing it out of the picture.

Damix
01-10-2013, 01:32 PM
I think part of the reason why we had guys sit and learn is because we had the luxury to allow them that opportunity. For a long while we were one of the deeper teams in the league.

But we don't have that luxury in certain positions, and I think they would play more given our circumstances. Look at 07, our rookies had immediate impact bc we needed them to.

Also, you never draft a player for 1 year. Every player you draft has to be a long term decision. If LB is there and he's a great player, take him. Who cares if he sits a year, he'll start the next year.

Look at David Wilson. He sat this year. But he'll play significant minutes this coming season, and pretty much wipes RB off the board. Same with Randle. If we don't draft those 2 last year, RB and WR are needs this year. If we don't draft a LB bc we're afraid of him sitting, then it will always be a need and will never be solved bc we keep pushing it out of the picture.

I'm not saying don't draft a LB, I'm saying don't draft a LB in the first. 07 Ross played, but only after a multitude of injuries, hell, we had RW playing back there for a while that year.

For the pub that draft class got, only Bradshaw and DeOssie are still on the team and one or both may be cut this offseason.

Wilson barely played this year even with 3 RBs down. I hate the pass protection excuse, I saw Bradshaw miss plenty of blocks and stay in.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 01:45 PM
I'm not saying don't draft a LB, I'm saying don't draft a LB in the first. 07 Ross played, but only after a multitude of injuries, hell, we had RW playing back there for a while that year.

For the pub that draft class got, only Bradshaw and DeOssie are still on the team and one or both may be cut this offseason.

Wilson barely played this year even with 3 RBs down. I hate the pass protection excuse, I saw Bradshaw miss plenty of blocks and stay in.

The average career in the NFL is like 3 years. I'm not surprised only 2 of them remain on the team. Bradshaw's career is almost over and he only played 5 years. Think about it.

I don't see the problem with taking a LB in the first if he's BPA. Why not? The only guy I see as a 1st round grade LB at the moment is Teo, and he might be available.

I still haven't figured out how I feel about Teo. I need to really sit down and look at him. I do remember when I was scouting last year, I was significantly more impressed with Keuchly vs Teo. But Luke was a beast. He was perfect.

Forenci
01-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Haha BBD, weren't you raving about our linebacker position before the start of the season?

That's something I never understood. I don't know how people look at our linebacker situation and thought we were stacked. I thought we had a bunch of average to below average players so for me this is not a shock after this season.

My philosophy is with linebackers: unless you're getting a stud LB don't bother drafting them in the first two rounds. Wasted pick that can be addressed later in the draft or via free agency. I truly believe a LB can only have so much of an impact.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 03:14 PM
Haha BBD, weren't you raving about our linebacker position before the start of the season?

That's something I never understood. I don't know how people look at our linebacker situation and thought we were stacked. I thought we had a bunch of average to below average players so for me this is not a shock after this season.

My philosophy is with linebackers: unless you're getting a stud LB don't bother drafting them in the first two rounds. Wasted pick that can be addressed later in the draft or via free agency. I truly believe a LB can only have so much of an impact.

I did think we had great depth but I was wrong. I was hoping Herzlich would pan out, but it's clear to me now that he's a career backup at best, Boley has regressed, and Paysinger is average. If Herzlich panned out I'd still feel good about it bc we'd have JWill and Herz as the future, but right now we just have JWill. That's it.

Ideally I want 2 linebackers but realistically I just want a middle linebacker, and I want JWill to start.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 11:45 AM
It sounds like some of these OL prospects are staying in college, which weakens the group. Will be interesting to see if a very good one falls to 19 anymore.

I'm really hoping Jordan or Ansah fall to 19 right now. I'm less confident in Ansah right now vs Jordan. Jordan would be a no brainer to me from what I've seen so far.

If we can go DE in round 1, LB in round 2, OT or OG round 3 and DT in round 4 I'd be a happy camper.

Rosebud
01-11-2013, 12:01 PM
It sounds like some of these OL prospects are staying in college, which weakens the group. Will be interesting to see if a very good one falls to 19 anymore.

I'm really hoping Jordan or Ansah fall to 19 right now. I'm less confident in Ansah right now vs Jordan. Jordan would be a no brainer to me from what I've seen so far.

If we can go DE in round 1, LB in round 2, OT or OG round 3 and DT in round 4 I'd be a happy camper.

Ansah to me looks like the perfect Tuck replacement. He's supposed to have a great head on his shoulders, he's a powerful, long armed kid, with great understanding of how to use his hands. Would make a great LE opposite JPP who can kick inside in passing situations for Kiwi to come on.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 12:02 PM
Isn't Dion Jordan more of a 3-4 OLB?

Rosebud
01-11-2013, 12:04 PM
He's such a great athlete he could be, but he's so long and has a good frame on him to add a little weight and play 4-3 DE with no problems cause he's strong, even at this lighter weight.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 12:06 PM
Depends on what he weighs at the combine. I can easily see him get to 260 lbs. He's listed at 245 right now, but 260 would be so easy for him. He has no base, he just has to put mass on his lower body and he can easily get to 260, his frame can handle 270 but you want to keep him around 260 so he doesn't lose any speed.

If we drafted Jordan he'd probably play RE and we'd move JPP to LE long term.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-12-2013, 05:46 AM
Depends on what he weighs at the combine. I can easily see him get to 260 lbs. He's listed at 245 right now, but 260 would be so easy for him. He has no base, he just has to put mass on his lower body and he can easily get to 260, his frame can handle 270 but you want to keep him around 260 so he doesn't lose any speed.

If we drafted Jordan he'd probably play RE and we'd move JPP to LE long term.

I'd rather keep JPP at RE. He's much more effective on the right side, and we can find someone who plays LE in the draft.

Forenci
01-12-2013, 09:47 AM
I think Ansah can play anywhere. RE, LE, inside or out. 3-4 or 4-3. He's extremely versatile. I actually think he makes a better LE to be honest.

Puretalent
01-13-2013, 10:00 AM
Kevin Reddick from UNC is some one Im liking for the gmen in the 2or 3rd rds.
Don't think reese will draft a de in the first. Don't see tuck going anywhere. So Im more hoping a Warmack makes it to 19. Beatty and Warmack would solve the left side for a good while.

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 10:20 AM
I'd love to get Warmack or Warford. Both are just so good at pulling despite their massive frames and great natural power. That said I'd still rather snag an Ansah or Jordan in the first and hope Warford lasts til the second.

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 10:22 AM
agreed. and before people say no chance Warmack falls, let's remember how Decastro fell last year and he was one of the best guard prospects we've ever really seen

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 10:26 AM
The OT class getting weaker helps the guards move up the board, but I still think that people are slightly over-rating just how high we'll see these awesome guards go.

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 10:33 AM
The OT class getting weaker helps the guards move up the board, but I still think that people are slightly over-rating just how high we'll see these awesome guards go.

agreed. and while we've all realized we've got quite a bit of holes, this draft is deep in positions we need. We can miss out on guys at a certain position and have no problem taking a guy at the other. Deep at guards, Dline and corner makes it pretty nice for us

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 11:09 AM
agreed. and while we've all realized we've got quite a bit of holes, this draft is deep in positions we need. We can miss out on guys at a certain position and have no problem taking a guy at the other. Deep at guards, Dline and corner makes it pretty nice for us

Yup, that's why I'm not so fired up for a LB. I'd much rather we take advantage of this draft's depth at OG, DE and DT, to find young studs at those spots than snag just a good young LB.

Forenci
01-13-2013, 11:12 AM
Yeah, normally I'm not someone to hold out hope for guys to fall but because of his position it is very possible Warmack could be at our pick. After watching the 49ers offensive line just DOMINATE I really want to get a top offensive linemen in the draft. Warmack will be a stud. I hope we can get him.

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 11:14 AM
Yup, that's why I'm not so fired up for a LB. I'd much rather we take advantage of this draft's depth at OG, DE and DT, to find young studs at those spots than snag just a good young LB.

OR we trade down, grab Khaseem and take full advantage of the depth, obviously

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 11:18 AM
OR we trade down, grab Khaseem and take full advantage of the depth, obviously

*shrug* we've got Jacquain and until he's cut, Boley, I'd rather get the better choice of prospects than another tiny LB.

Forenci
01-13-2013, 11:38 AM
Honestly, if we take a LB in the second round I want it to be Alec Ogletree if he's at our pick. Dude has huge upside and I loved watching him play at Georgia.

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 11:53 AM
shhhhhh BECAUSE KHASEEEEEEEEM

Forenci
01-13-2013, 12:20 PM
Haha, no offense Scotty. It's just Ogletree has a billion times more upside than Kasheem does.

bigbluedefense
01-13-2013, 12:45 PM
I don't think we need another OLB. I think we need a MIKE. JWill should hold down the outside for us.

Forenci
01-13-2013, 12:52 PM
Ogletree is an MIKE. I just fear he will go in the first round because he is so damn good.

bigbluedefense
01-13-2013, 12:53 PM
Height/weight/speed?

NY+Giants=NYG
01-13-2013, 12:54 PM
I just hope Fewell fixes his scheme or else it won't matter who we have on this team.

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 12:56 PM
My problem with Ogletree is he's a little guy to

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 12:57 PM
Even if we did trade back after already getting a DE, DT and OG, I'd want a DB, be it another corner to challenge Webster and Hosley, or a deep safety to back up Kenny.

bigbluedefense
01-13-2013, 01:01 PM
I just hope Fewell fixes his scheme or else it won't matter who we have on this team.

He won't. Let it go. We're gonna run the same Cover 2 defense next year.

We have to draft better tacklers in the LB core, a CB and possibly S in the secondary, and a pass rusher opposite JPP for the DL for us to be competitive on defense next year. Unless some of these old guys find lightning in a bottle.

Forenci
01-13-2013, 01:04 PM
Height/weight/speed?

Listed at 6'3 232 with a frame to add more weight. I'm not sure what he's timed at but every game I've seen he FLIES from sideline to sideline. Amazing speed. He takes guys on at the point of attack too.

AZy_y0on4u8

Against Bama. I like how he sheds some of Bama's linemen during the game. Wasn't his best game necessarily but he had 11 tackles and did a pretty good job.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
He won't. Let it go. We're gonna run the same Cover 2 defense next year.

We have to draft better tacklers in the LB core, a CB and possibly S in the secondary, and a pass rusher opposite JPP for the DL for us to be competitive on defense next year. Unless some of these old guys find lightning in a bottle.


I can't let it go! That side of the ball is wasting Eli's prime! We need a better LB coach who can teach these kids who to tackle. We do need a CB, we are fine at safety unless we plan on pushing Rolle out the door.

I talked about this on BBI, but watching these mobile QBs and some running the read option, our DL can't keep getting attention for us. We need to branch to other areas. Also, I do believe the " You never can have too much pass rushers, meaning for me front 4, might be out dated.

We can put Kiwi and Ojomo, and hope our scheme helps us. If we extend Fewell I will flip out!

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 03:28 PM
Haha, no offense Scotty. It's just Ogletree has a billion times more upside than Kasheem does.

I like Ogletree and would love the pick but I disagree with you on upside considering that's a huge part of Khaseem's upside. Dude's only been a LB for 2 years now haha. He's only gonna get better.

Ogletree fits better as a MIKE, obviously. Khaseem will be a stud WILL somewhere. Not here most likely, i know that. i just keep saying khaseem because i love him. Ogletree would be fine, but I REALLY wanna work the trenches and nab a corner early

Forenci
01-13-2013, 03:32 PM
I just don't think Kasheem has the size to become a dominant LB. I think he'll be a good, solid player though.

I want to work on the trenches and corner as well. We agree there for sure. If Ogletree (somehow) ever fell to our second pick I wouldn't mind grabbing him at all.

Giantsfan1080
01-13-2013, 03:33 PM
I really like Ogletree also so I'd be very happy with him.

Big_Pete
01-13-2013, 03:47 PM
Looking at the depth in this year's draft, I think we can probably still get a good LB in the 3rd/4th rounds.

If we can't get Ansah, I would rather look at the offensive line.
A rotation of Tuck, Pierre-Paul, Kiwanuka and Tracy/Ojomo/Trattou is solid.

The guy I like is Barrett Jones, he can play any of our oline positions. We could plug him in at LG for a couple of years and groom him as Baas's successor.

I do think with the uncertainty around Corey Webster and Terrel Thomas, we need to look at corner and there should be very good options in the 2nd and third rounds.

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 04:06 PM
Not a Jones fan, not overly dominant and getting over-rated because of his "versatility". At the NFL he'll be much better at Center than guard because he's smart and good, but he's not a dominant guard and we've still got Baas for the foreseeable future.

Big_Pete
01-13-2013, 04:55 PM
Not a Jones fan, not overly dominant and getting over-rated because of his "versatility". At the NFL he'll be much better at Center than guard because he's smart and good, but he's not a dominant guard and we've still got Baas for the foreseeable future.

You do realise Baas will be 32 before next season?

Big_Pete
01-13-2013, 09:22 PM
I was looking at the depth of talent this year particularly with 70 underclassmen declaring, this is my latest thinking of what I would like to see in the draft.

1 (19): Ezekiel Ansah, DE Brigham Young

2 (49): Margus Hunt, DL Southern Methodist

3 (81): Arthur Brown, LB Kansas State

4 (113): Kwame Geathers, DT Georgia

5 (145): Trevardo Williams, OLB Connecticut

6 (177): Jamar Taylor, CB Boise State

7 (209): Khalid Wooten, CB Nevada

Groom Ansah, Hunt and Geathers behind Tuck, Canty and Joseph. Brown will compete for playing time and can play all of our LB spots, Williams is a developmental SLB. Taylor and Wooten add valueable CB depth.


[hr]

Note, I expect us to:

Resign: Victor Cruz (RFA), Will Beatty, Martellus Bennett, Kenny Phillips, Kevin Boothe, Stevie Brown (RFA), Keith Rivers, Chase Blackburn, Lawrence Tynes, Sean Locklear, Bear Pascoe (RFA), Andre Brown (RFA), Domenik Hixon, Adrian Tracy (ERFA), Justin Trattou (ERFA), Jim Cordle (ERFA)

Cut: David Diehl, Michael Boley, Terrell Thomas

Restructure: Eli Manning, Antrel Rolle, Corey Webster, Chris Canty, Chris Snee, David Baas, Justin Tuck

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 07:52 AM
I was looking at the depth of talent this year particularly with 70 underclassmen declaring, this is my latest thinking of what I would like to see in the draft.

1 (19): Ezekiel Ansah, DE Brigham Young

2 (49): Margus Hunt, DL Southern Methodist

3 (81): Arthur Brown, LB Kansas State

4 (113): Kwame Geathers, DT Georgia

5 (145): Trevardo Williams, OLB Connecticut

6 (177): Jamar Taylor, CB Boise State

7 (209): Khalid Wooten, CB Nevada

Groom Ansah, Hunt and Geathers behind Tuck, Canty and Joseph. Brown will compete for playing time and can play all of our LB spots, Williams is a developmental SLB. Taylor and Wooten add valueable CB depth.


[hr]

Note, I expect us to:

Resign: Victor Cruz (RFA), Will Beatty, Martellus Bennett, Kenny Phillips, Kevin Boothe, Stevie Brown (RFA), Keith Rivers, Chase Blackburn, Lawrence Tynes, Sean Locklear, Bear Pascoe (RFA), Andre Brown (RFA), Domenik Hixon, Adrian Tracy (ERFA), Justin Trattou (ERFA), Jim Cordle (ERFA)

Cut: David Diehl, Michael Boley, Terrell Thomas

Restructure: Eli Manning, Antrel Rolle, Corey Webster, Chris Canty, Chris Snee, David Baas, Justin Tuck

2 DE's with the first two picks? I don't like that.

Rosebud
01-14-2013, 11:04 AM
I'm not a big Hunt fan for our scheme, he'd have to learn to DE and is an older prospect who dominated boys. I'd rather not be the team that takes him.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 11:45 AM
Listed at 6'3 232 with a frame to add more weight. I'm not sure what he's timed at but every game I've seen he FLIES from sideline to sideline. Amazing speed. He takes guys on at the point of attack too.

AZy_y0on4u8

Against Bama. I like how he sheds some of Bama's linemen during the game. Wasn't his best game necessarily but he had 11 tackles and did a pretty good job.

This is the first I've seen of him so I can't judge too much, but so far I'm intrigued.

I like his length and speed. His instincts are good, not great but good. I really don't like how he tackles. He tackles high and doesn't wrap up well. And as you know, tackling is my highest priority right now when evaluating these guys.

He makes up for his shortcomings with incredible speed and range. I'll keep an eye on this guy.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:24 PM
Having that said, I love athletes. And if this guy can bulk up a little at worst I can see him being a solid OLB. I need to see more of him to judge his tackling though.

We need an impact player on the 2nd level. I know everyone keeps saying LB isn't important, but just look at the transformation of the league.

I just saw Russell Wilson run all over the Falcons. I just saw Kolin Kaepernick run all over the Packers. Hell, we just saw RGIII in our own division run all over the place.

We are seeing TEs dominate the middle of the field as passing mismatches. YOU NEED LINEBACKERS!

Enough is enough. We can't rely on our pressure to just save the day and blow **** up every play all the time. Let's get some linebackers. We need some range there or else we're in trouble. The game is changing, we have to adjust.

TACKLE
01-14-2013, 12:28 PM
You can have any of the linebackers not named Arthur Brown your heart desires.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:33 PM
So far Arthur Brown is my guy. I need to see more, but I really like his instincts and tackling ability.

The kid from Penn State has potential too. The more I think about this Oggletree character, the more I think he's a OLB. Don't like how he plays the run.

Rosebud
01-14-2013, 12:37 PM
Having that said, I love athletes. And if this guy can bulk up a little at worst I can see him being a solid OLB. I need to see more of him to judge his tackling though.

We need an impact player on the 2nd level. I know everyone keeps saying LB isn't important, but just look at the transformation of the league.

I just saw Russell Wilson run all over the Falcons. I just saw Kolin Kaepernick run all over the Packers. Hell, we just saw RGIII in our own division run all over the place.

We are seeing TEs dominate the middle of the field as passing mismatches. YOU NEED LINEBACKERS!

Enough is enough. We can't rely on our pressure to just save the day and blow **** up every play all the time. Let's get some linebackers. We need some range there or else we're in trouble. The game is changing, we have to adjust.

The Falcons have really good LBs and it didn't matter because their pass rush was dogshit. Packers LBs sucked, but their DL getting continually raped sucked to. And their gameplan was awful. Tough to blame either of those performances on LBs unless you're suggesting every team that isn't the Bears needs to be looking for better LBs.

But to keep overanalyzing the playoff performances on leaguewide trends, the Seahawks and 9ers amazing LBs corps have been getting abused. Facing playoff offenses you just can't take over on D without the DL getting pressure, regardless of your linebackers.

Which isn't to say that if we could get a DE, DT and DB/OL I wouldn't mind getting a very good LB to, it's just our Line needs a boost to, and ultimately it is still more important.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 12:39 PM
The Falcons have really good LBs and it didn't matter because their pass rush was dogshit. Packers LBs sucked, but their DL getting continually raped sucked to. And their gameplan was awful. Tough to blame either of those performances on LBs unless you're suggesting every team that isn't the Bears needs to be looking for better LBs.

But to keep overanalyzing the playoff performances on leaguewide trends, the Seahawks and 9ers amazing LBs corps have been getting abused. Facing playoff offenses you just can't take over on D without the DL getting pressure, regardless of your linebackers.

Which isn't to say that if we could get a DE, DT and DB/OL I wouldn't mind getting a very good LB to, it's just our Line needs a boost to, and ultimately it is still more important.

Exactly. These playoff games haven't really changed my mind as to what the Giants D needs. We need to stop the run first and foremost and I still think a big DT would help us. LB would help also but I don't think it's as big of a need and you can find good LB later more so than DT.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:45 PM
I want a DT and DE as well, but I don't like the idea of completely ignoring LB. DT has a high bust rate, I just don't like taking them high.

DE is my first preference in round 1, but there's no guarantee that a good guy will be there at 19.

If a good LB is available in the first 2 rounds, I don't see why we should pass on one. We need linebackers.

I personally think LBs impact the game more than DTs. Especially in our defense, where DTs get off the field on 3rd down. I don't want to spend a 1st round pick on a 2 down run stuffer on the DL. That makes no sense to me, it's a diminishing return.

A 3 down DE or 3 down LB is higher priority to me.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 12:51 PM
It seems to me like most of the PB caliber DTs in the NFL are high round picks. Usually a DT who's big and athletic enough won't fall to far so it's hard to find a good DT late. It's possible of course but it's more of a longshot.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
Here's the thing though, how many DTs in the entire league make an impact in the pass game?

Maybe 4 or 5 at most? The rest are very good run stuffers. But we don't necessarily need to put a high pick in a 2 down run stuffer, if we're gonna spend a high pick it should be as a pass rusher inside.

But those guys are just hard to find. Even Ngata, for all the pub he gets, doesn't do much in the pass game. His value could be a little overstated bc of it.

I rather just get a 3rd or 4th round guy who can give us snaps and solid run stuffing ability at DT. We make our money by saturating the DL with pass rushers, a DT is simply a 2 down player in our system.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 01:00 PM
Stopping the run game helps the passing game though. It seems like we hardly had any team in 3rd & long this year because we couldn't stop jack at the line. I want to get back to controlling the LOS on both sides of the ball like we did in 07 and 08.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 01:23 PM
And again, I'm fine with that. But I ask, do you need a 1st or 2nd round DT to do so?

I think we can get better value in round 3 for a DT. If we can find another Barry Cofield, that's more than enough. We just need a good run stuffer next to Joseph to take on blockers. We can find that in round 3.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 01:24 PM
Of course, the board will dictate the selection, so if a stud DT is there then I'm fine with it. I'm just speaking in general terms.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
Well yeah I am also. I'm not saying take a 1st round DT over a LB just because he's a DT. I definitely want a LB also and if that's where we go I'm more than fine with it. I pretty much just want any defensive player in the 1st this year.

Big_Pete
01-14-2013, 01:38 PM
2 DE's with the first two picks? I don't like that.

I had Hunt as a DT developing behind Canty. The guy is going to be around an inch or so taller than Canty, similar size and more athłeticism.

Big_Pete
01-14-2013, 01:40 PM
So far Arthur Brown is my guy. I need to see more, but I really like his instincts and tackling ability.

The kid from Penn State has potential too. The more I think about this Oggletree character, the more I think he's a OLB. Don't like how he plays the run.

Brown is the LB I really like as an option so far.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 02:04 PM
Well yeah I am also. I'm not saying take a 1st round DT over a LB just because he's a DT. I definitely want a LB also and if that's where we go I'm more than fine with it. I pretty much just want any defensive player in the 1st this year.

What if a guy like Warmack is sitting there? I'm open to OL too, as long as it's a stud.

I had no idea Baas is 32 years old also. Throw C as a need as well then, bc he has another 2 years left in him before he shits the bed.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 02:08 PM
I'd be fine with an offensive player as long as it's OL. No skill players though.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 02:11 PM
I think we can safely remove any offensive skill position player off the board in the first 2 rounds. Maybe the first 3.

Any defensive player + OL is game. But I'll be very upset if we go skill position offensive player.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 02:16 PM
I think we can safely remove any offensive skill position player off the board in the first 2 rounds. Maybe the first 3.

Any defensive player + OL is game. But I'll be very upset if we go skill position offensive player.

My thoughts exactly. The playoffs have bored me this year I just want them to finish up so we can get to the exciting part of the offseason. It's really bothered me today that 3/4 teams from last year are the same except for us.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 02:18 PM
Yup. Like I said, it was a blown opportunity. Truthfully we weren't as good of a team as last year, but we still should have made the playoffs.

I think our offense has potential to be VERY good next year. If Randle and Wilson develop, we re-sign Bennett who stays healthy, and Nicks can stay healthy and we draft a OLmen, watch out.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 02:20 PM
Every year we have Eli and we aren't in the playoffs is a blown opportunity. I know we have the 2 SB's but boy it's really really frustrating watching this team knowing we should have so many more W's under our belt.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 02:23 PM
We're good enough of a team that we should be in the playoffs every year like the other upper tier teams in this league if we just play with some consistency.

Unfortunately now with a potential major rebuilding coming up, I don't see us reaching a SB level in terms of talent until maybe 2 years from now. Unless we absolutely nail this draft and can keep these old guys going for another 2 years.

scottyboy
01-14-2013, 02:53 PM
You can have any of the linebackers not named Arthur Brown your heart desires.

you know you love Khaseem too, don't lie

Big_Pete
01-14-2013, 03:26 PM
I think we need to take the best player available for sure.

I think on offense we are doing pretty well

We have good depth at the skill positions (providing we resign Cruz, Bennett and Pascoe as I expect). All we need to look at is depth/developmental guys.

The Oline, while not a traditionally dominant line has been solid and under rated. Our running game improved dramatically and our sacks given up dropped from 28 to 19. They have done a good job. If we can resign Boothe we are ok, we have Brewer and Mosely waiting in the wings at RT. Sure we need depth and if good value is available by all means, but our major needs are on defence.

On defence we need to look at reloading at DT, DE, LB and CB

Canty and Joseph are good starters at DT, but behind them we have stop gaps like Bernard and Rogers plus Kuhn who did well but is coming back from ACL injury and Austin who really hasn't flashed as well as expected.

At DE we are likely to keep Tuck, and move Kiwanuka back to DE. We also have decent youngsters in Trattou, Tracy and Ojomo. However our pass rush was aweful and we are going to want to upgrade. Add in the fact that we are likely to lose one of our best pass rushers and this is a probable need.

At LB we need speed, athleticism and effective tacklers. With the popularity of passing attacks and mobile QBs, we need quality LBs. Boley is likely gone, but we have a decent core with Williams, Herzlich, Paysinger and I expect we will resign Rivers and Blackburn.

At CB Webster isn't the player he used to be, but he is still solid and with a pay cut is a good player. Thomas is almost certainly gone (at least as a CB), leaving us with Amukamara and Hosely. We need to add CB depth.

Overshadowing all this is the salary cap, we aren't going to have a lot of room and we are going to be doing well if we can resign our key free agents. Add in the fact that decent DEs, DTs and CBs get decent money plus there isn't too much upgrade available at LB, we are probably going to need address these in the draft.

I would grade our needs as LB, CB, DT, DE. This draft has good depth at all these positions, which certainly helps. However, if a better talent at another position falls to us, by all means we should consider the best player available.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2013, 12:07 PM
I'm warming up to taking Warmack if he's there. He'd really improve our weakside run game. If we can get another Locklear type to fill in at RT (maybe even Locklear himself) and we get Warmack I think our OL can be pretty good.

Our main issue is we have absolutely no weakside run game bc Beatty sucks as a run blocker and Boothe is average at everything. If we get Warmack to plow the left side that opens up the strong side running game as well bc that box player won't always line up strongside.

I'm not banging the table for Warmack just yet, but I think it would be a good pick if we made it.

Forenci
01-15-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm a huge Warmack fan. I'd love him if he's at our pick. Beatty isn't a great run blocker (which I really don't care about as long as he keeps pass protecting really well) so having a road grader next to him would be awesome.

I think Warmack is going to be a stud. I reallllly want him if we go OL in the first, assuming he is there.

Just watching the 49ers makes me want to go offensive line, offensive line, offensive line. Their offensive line absolutely crushes its opponents.

Rosebud
01-15-2013, 12:30 PM
Warford's going to be a stud to, would love either of those two if there's no DL talent on the board.

Forenci
01-15-2013, 12:34 PM
Yeah Warford is pretty good too. His weight scares me a little though. I always get nervous when guys are THAT big. He's massive.

Giantsfan1080
01-15-2013, 12:34 PM
What about Fluker for RT?

Forenci
01-15-2013, 12:36 PM
I haven't seen a lot of Fluker yet. I'm going to have to look into him a bit more. I'm much more worried about guard than tackle at the moment though. Beatty saved our asses a bit. If he sucked it up then this O-Line would be in shambles.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2013, 12:38 PM
I think a G would actually improve our OL more than a RT right now, assuming that we can get Locklear back or find a Locklear equivalent somewhere.

I also forgot that Alan Branch is a FA. If he comes at a decent price, I'd love for the Giants to add him to our DT rotation to add bulk vs the run.

Giantsfan1080
01-15-2013, 12:41 PM
Yes to Branch and then we could take DT off the board. I'd rather a G also but just trying to gather thoughts on all positions.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2013, 12:55 PM
I think with some restructuring we could free up enough space to grab a couple of midlevel guys. I'd like Branch at DT and if we feel confident enough in Locklear bring him back to play RT.

That would really help us out quite a bit.

I really want a road grader OG on this team, but the only way I see that happening is if we spend a 1st rounder on a guy. But I really want to spend a 1st on defense, particularly DE if a good one is there.

Giantsfan1080
01-15-2013, 01:30 PM
Anyone know anything about this huge DT from Georgia, John Jenkins? Strictly a 3-4 anchor?

Big_Pete
01-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Anyone know anything about this huge DT from Georgia, John Jenkins? Strictly a 3-4 anchor?

I think Jenkins can easily anchor a 4-3 as well. He is the type of guy who keeps the MLB free to make plays.

I actually like the other Georgia DT as well Kwame Geathers.

Giantsfan1080
01-15-2013, 01:39 PM
I want to see more of Jenkins. He might be someone I could easily fall in love with as a prospect.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2013, 01:42 PM
What about the DT from Missouri? If we're gonna spend a high pick on a DT, I want him to be a pass rusher as well as an anchor.

Like I rather have a Fletcher Cox than a Michael Brockers if that makes any sense.

Giantsfan1080
01-15-2013, 01:44 PM
I honestly don't know enough about any of the DTs this year. In general I know less about the college prospects this year than ever before. As I'm getting older it's harder to keep track of this stuff.

Big_Pete
01-15-2013, 01:45 PM
I want to see more of Jenkins. He might be someone I could easily fall in love with as a prospect.

Very true, an anchor like that inside would go a long way to fixing our run problems and allow us to have a smaller more athletic MLB

That's pretty much John Fox's preferred style of 4-3 DT

Rosebud
01-15-2013, 01:47 PM
I honestly don't know enough about any of the DTs this year. In general I know less about the college prospects this year than ever before. As I'm getting older it's harder to keep track of this stuff.

Sometimes I really worry that you're spying on my mind.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2013, 02:09 PM
I honestly don't know enough about any of the DTs this year. In general I know less about the college prospects this year than ever before. As I'm getting older it's harder to keep track of this stuff.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I don't have time for that **** anymore. I especially hate when ppl tell me stupid forum **** like "i fell off" or whatever. Sorry. My bad for growing up and having a career.

Forenci
01-15-2013, 03:07 PM
Haha yeah. I'm like BBD too and am not a big college football fan either so that makes it difficult. I find youtube is extremely helpful though. People break down whole games of players these days and put them on there.

I'm finding it very hard to evaluate the Alabama linemen. I worry that are they are just really solid/good and that's making them look better individually. Still, I don't think I'd be upset with any of those Bama linemen if we take them.

Big_Pete
01-15-2013, 10:04 PM
How do people feel about MLB Kevin Minter as an option in the first if the top tier DEs and OL are off the board?

Giantsfan1080
01-16-2013, 10:45 AM
Mel Kiper has us taking DE Sam Montgomery in his first mock.

bigbluedefense
01-16-2013, 10:50 AM
He's from LSU right? LSU DLmen scare me. Most of them historically haven't lived up to expectations at the NFL level.

Giantsfan1080
01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
He's from LSU right? LSU DLmen scare me. Most of them historically haven't lived up to expectations at the NFL level.

Yup he's an LSU guy.

bigbluedefense
01-16-2013, 01:04 PM
Yup he's an LSU guy.

He looked slow in his youtube video. *shrug*

I think right now, and mind you I haven't done much scouting, I think if we go DE I want either Jordan or Ansah. They fit the "profile" of what we like in pass rushers. We like big long guys. Long arms, some good size. They fit the bill.

Crap, we have so many needs and not enough draft picks to fit them.

Forenci
01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
Yep haha. Will never happen but depending who's available trading down would be nice this year.

Big_Pete
01-16-2013, 03:21 PM
I am not a huge fan of Sam Montgomery for us, I think he is pretty much purely a RDE and we are set there.

at DE I like Ansah, Hunt, Jones, Carradine and late round guys like Bass and Catapano.


Just like LB, we really need a MLB, preferably someone like Poslunzsy who was drafted to play MLB in Fewell's defence in Buffalo despite being an OLB in college. To me that is the kind of guy I want us to get. Two guys I really like are Kevin Minter and Arthur Brown, I am not a fan of Ogeltree, he is a little too inconsistent.

Big_Pete
01-16-2013, 04:02 PM
Scott just updated his top 125 rankings to include all the underclassmen

Using this as an approximate guide, how would people feel about something like this:

1 (19): Ezekiel Ansah, DE Brigham Young (DC#20)

2 (49): Khaseem Greene, OLB Rutgers (DC#48)

3 (81): Gerald Hodges, MLB Penn State (DC#81)

4 (113): Leon McFadden, CB San Diego State (DC#114)

bigbluedefense
01-16-2013, 04:46 PM
Well, I guess we can take Manti Teo off the board...

Forenci
01-16-2013, 04:48 PM
Haha, never really liked him as a prospect anyway so I'm alright.

bigbluedefense
01-16-2013, 04:50 PM
Yeah I'm kind of glad in a way. I caught myself trying to force myself to like him as a prospect the same way I was with Rolando McClain.

Now I can throw him off the board and not feel guilty about it.

Forenci
01-16-2013, 04:51 PM
Indeed. Check out Alec Ogletree though if you get a chance. I loooooove him. He's too good to get in the second round though.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2013, 11:30 AM
I was happily surprised Scott had the two Rutgers defensive guys ranked so high.

Ryan #42 overall #5 CB
Greene #48 overall #4 OLB

scottyboy
01-17-2013, 12:02 PM
and that's with Brown as an OLB (YFS has informed me he's best at MLB) and 2 3-4 rushers ahead of him. Khaseem is the best pure 4-3 OLB in this class

bigbluedefense
01-17-2013, 12:33 PM
Brown kind of reminds me of DeMeco Ryans right now. So far.

bigbluedefense
01-17-2013, 12:53 PM
What really sucks is there doesn't seem like there will be a run at quarterbacks this year. That usually pushes a lot of good prospects back towards us but I don't think that will happen this year.

In fact, our pick becomes a tradable pick bc I can see teams looking to moving around to select quarterbacks opposed to taking quarterbacks earlier than valued.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2013, 01:47 PM
It's still early. Plenty of time for QB's to rise up the board.

Forenci
01-17-2013, 02:43 PM
Yeah. I'm really excited for the Senior Bowl this year. A lot of interesting things will happen. I'm starting to get into scouting some more guys too.

Ogletree is my #1 pure linebacker right now. I honestly wouldn't be upset at all if we took him in the first round. Now that said I want a DE, DT, DB or OL but I wouldn't be upset if we grabbed him at all.

Big_Pete
01-17-2013, 03:22 PM
I am really looking forward to the senior bowl.



I want to see Gerald Hodges, the LB from Penn state. He should be an option in the third and about when we are more likely to look at a LB. Along with Arthur Brown they are my favouritwe LBs; I want to see how Chase Thomas plays as well.

I also want to see how Trevardo Williams goes at OLB, I think he might be an option at SLB in the mid rounds.

I really think we look at the DL in the first couple of rounds, both to upgrade our positions. You know Reese likes phyiscal tools and I really think we look at Ansah at LDE in round 1.

I want to see how Margus Hunt goes too, he has excellent physical tools. I think we could develop him inside at DT.

Big_Pete
01-17-2013, 03:24 PM
It's still early. Plenty of time for QB's to rise up the board.

With Chip Kelly in Philly, I think they get very interested in Geno Smith

Big_Pete
01-17-2013, 03:25 PM
and that's with Brown as an OLB (YFS has informed me he's best at MLB) and 2 3-4 rushers ahead of him. Khaseem is the best pure 4-3 OLB in this class

I think Greene is purely a 4-3 WLB to be honest which will hurt his value a little

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2013, 06:43 PM
Hodges is very good also. He actually committed to Rutgers first then at the last minute went to PSU.

scottyboy
01-17-2013, 06:47 PM
I think Greene is purely a 4-3 WLB to be honest which will hurt his value a little

Sadly, I agree. But he's gonna be one helluva WLB.


Hodges is very good also. He actually committed to Rutgers first then at the last minute went to PSU.

so I have to hate him.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2013, 07:10 PM
Naa I don't hate the players that do that. I just get pissed they didn't live up to their original commitment when they go on to do well.

bigbluedefense
01-18-2013, 09:32 AM
I'm a Hodges fan so far. He doesn't tackle as well as Brown, but he's pretty good in his own right.

He has better measurables than Brown. I still have to really scout these guys, I haven't done anything yet outside of watching some youtube videos.

This year I didn't DVR any games so I might just have to rely on scouting reports and youtube videos. So my judgement may not be the greatest.

I think also part of the problem is I've trusted Reese so much with the draft that I don't scout much bc I don't really care. I know Reese will make the right call, so why bother?

But it does pass time in the offseason, and it is fun to predict some players and see if they wind up successful or not so I still do it.

Forenci
01-21-2013, 01:40 PM
I really need to take a closer look at DJ Fluker. The guys Senior Bowl weigh in was insane. 36 inch arm, 355 pounds, 6'5, 10 inch hands and a 87 inch wingspan. That's absurd.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Just watched the first Senior Bowl practice for the north team. Of the guys in positions we need in my opinion, a couple of guys caught my eye.

DE Alex Okafor beasted in the one on ones and looked real good. Had some great pass-rushing moves, and consistently got the O-linemen on their heels, if he didn't just cleanly beat them off the snap. I will follow him closely throughout the week.

OG Brian Winters also did a good enough job in pass protection, and he seemed to play with a mean streak. Hard to gauge his run-blocking, because I was focused on the defense in 7 on 7's. Could be a mid-late round developmental O-liner that we always seem to get.

CB Jordan Poyer really stood out in the CBs versus WRs one on ones. Had great coverage every rep, and looked the part at the weigh-in as well. I've seen him projected in the mid-late second round elsewhere, and wouldn't mind him there at all if we took him with our second.

I also tried to watch the LBs intently, but couldn't see anyone standing out that much. Kept an extra eye on Khaseem Greene, he had a pretty average day. Had some good reps in stopping the run, and seemed to cover very well. But also struggled mightily to disengage from blockers a couple of times. He played MLB in the 4-3 formation in the 7 on 7's.

Forenci
01-21-2013, 07:19 PM
Greene is a dwarf. He's just not big enough to play the position imo.

scottyboy
01-21-2013, 07:21 PM
love khaseem more than anyone but he can't play MLB. HOF OLB, but not suited for MLB

bigbluedefense
01-21-2013, 08:19 PM
love khaseem more than anyone but he can't play MLB. HOF OLB, but not suited for MLB

Stop it Scotty.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 08:30 AM
Greene is a dwarf. He's just not big enough to play the position imo.

He actually weighed in heavier than I thought he would. He's certainly no MLB though.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 08:35 AM
He actually weighed in heavier than I thought he would. He's certainly no MLB though.

Probably because he gained a lot of weight from fat, not muscle. According to the info the on the site he has a "soft upper body." Not exactly what you want to hear. It's one think if he's 236 and it's all muscle, but when it's not that's a concern.

And he's 6 feet tall.

He's just too small and not strong enough. He might be a solid player but nothing special.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 08:50 AM
Probably because he gained a lot of weight from fat, not muscle. According to the info the on the site he has a "soft upper body." Not exactly what you want to hear. It's one think if he's 236 and it's all muscle, but when it's not that's a concern.

And he's 6 feet tall.

He's just too small and not strong enough. He might be a solid player but nothing special.

Yeah this was always my concern as I never pimped him as hard but it all depends on the kind of system he goes into. He did gain a lot of muscle from last year into this year and it's possible he's still developing his body into a LB build. I think he has a chance to be slightly above average but I'm not expecting him to be a star.

I'm still glad Stevie B got the invite which should help him get drafted now. He always did well but didn't have the hype behind him so I thought he'd go UDFA. I think with a solid performance he has a chance to be 6th or 7th round material now.

Duron Harmon helped himself out big time at the NFLPA game. He's flying under the radar a bit as far as S goes. I really hope he gets an invite to the combine but I doubt it.

I have Ryan, Greene, Beau, Jamison, and Jefferson getting the combine invites. Harmon, Vallone, Jones, Wright, Glaud will have to do well at the Rutgers Pro day. I might be missing a player or two.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 08:53 AM
I'm interested in Jefferson. He's such a big body but I thought I remember him being a guy who dropped a lot of balls or am I mistaken?

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 08:57 AM
I'm interested in Jefferson. He's such a big body but I thought I remember him being a guy who dropped a lot of balls or am I mistaken?

Yeah he's had some drops but he was getting better with that every year. He's a bit undisciplined as well. Rutgers never used him the right way because we're not a very TE heavy offense. We converted him to TE when he got here and he has developed slowly as he's learned the position. Someone should get a solid 2nd TE if they take him. He's an above average blocker and kind of reminds of Martellus. The Giants will pass because we took a project in Robinson last year and Jefferson is also very similar to him. Big athletic TE's that are raw.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 09:00 AM
Is Beckum under contract? He might get cut too. I'm interested in Jefferson because he's so damn big. I'm curious to see how he will run at the combine.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 09:17 AM
Is Beckum under contract? He might get cut too. I'm interested in Jefferson because he's so damn big. I'm curious to see how he will run at the combine.

I think Beckum is UFA so he's gone.

Even with that I just can't see the Giants taking another TE that is raw and will need to be developed. I guess it's somewhat possible because we have Pope but it is a gamble depth wise.

Rosebud
01-22-2013, 09:38 AM
Khaseem's my size, he's a little heavier but if I started working out for bulk I could back to 230, and while that makes me root for him, that absolutely makes him too small to play MIKE or SAM.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 10:46 AM
I think Beckum is UFA so he's gone.

Even with that I just can't see the Giants taking another TE that is raw and will need to be developed. I guess it's somewhat possible because we have Pope but it is a gamble depth wise.

We drafted Adrien Robinson last year. We're not drafting another raw TE. I almost forget that Robinson was on the team. I think if he doesn't show us some kind of development this offseason he might get cut.

But then at the same time he can turn around and show us promise for a 2 TE set which would be huge for us. So we'll see. Time will tell.

But I don't see us taking a TE early. If at all. Bear is a FA but you can find a Bear Pascoe in the UDFA pool.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 10:56 AM
Reese had very good things to say about Robinson. He's not going anywhere.

I said also I'd be very shocked if we took another raw TE. The only thing is that Jefferson reminds me a lot of both Bennett and Robinson so maybe the Giants FO/Pope has a crush on those kinds of players so they give him a long look.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 10:57 AM
I mean, we can have multiple raw TE's. I don't know where Jefferson is predicted to go but if it's the 4th or below I see no reason why we couldn't take a chance on him. Bring in a veteran, bring in a young guy and let them fight for a roster spot.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 10:58 AM
I only see it as a possibility if we don't re-sign Bennett.

The more I think of it, the more I want Warmack if he's available. He reminds me of Shawn Andrews. The not crazy version.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 10:59 AM
Yeah I love Warmack but his stock is really high right now. He's almost a lock to go top 15.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 11:02 AM
Don't read too much into that. Guards fall in the draft. And remember how David DeCastro at this time last year was the best guard prospect to come out since Steve Hutchinson and blah blah blah. Dude went 24 overall.

So Guards fall in the draft. DeCastro was pegged as a top 10 pick this time last year.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 11:06 AM
That's true. I suppose it's possible he falls but he's of a different mold than DeCastro. Warmack is much more of a road grader and mauler.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 11:13 AM
I agree. I think in hindsight DeCastro was overrated bc he was a high floor low ceiling guy.

But at the same time, we're not picking 32, we have the 19th pick. It's entirely possible that he can fall to 19. The last G to go high was Brandon Albert who only went high bc he could play LT.

Also, keep in mind there are some good Guards available in FA. Levitre, possibly Albert. Jake Long is available as an OT. There is a good crop of OL FAs available, and teams will approach them.

Which will in turn, move OLmen down the board. So its entirely possible that he falls. OT depth in this draft is solid as well, and they'll go first.

Dallas could possibly takes him before we get the chance, but I can definitely see a situation where he's there for the taking.

Now for me personally, if he and a great DE prospect are both available at the same time, then I have to think about it. I can't say names yet for DEs bc I haven't scouted them yet.

But for the sake of debate, say him and Ansah are both available. Is it a slam dunk to take one over the other?

I don't think so. And quite honestly, right now I'm thinking Warmack over Ansah. But it's still early. I haven't developed any solid opinions on anyone yet.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 11:31 AM
Well I hope so. If Ansah and Warmack are both at our pick it's going to be a damn tough pick. Ansah has some great length that we like based off the Senior Bowl measurements.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 11:35 AM
How old is Ansah?

Forenci
01-22-2013, 11:39 AM
I think he's 23 since May, but I'm not 100% sure on that. If so that's not bad at all considering how a lot of BYU guys can be much older.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 11:43 AM
Yeah thats why I asked. That's still kind of old. He'll be 24 before he even steps foot in the NFL.

That's basically 6 years worth of usage. 2 years of development + 4 years of quality pass rush.

It's ok, I'll take that. But if Warmack is available you have to factor that in. I'm not thrilled with that age.

Forenci
01-22-2013, 11:47 AM
I mean, good DE's can last a long time. It just depends on the player and how they deal with injuries.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2013, 12:07 PM
I'm still not sold on Ansah either though. Not yet. Need to see more. They didn't put him in enough rush situations for me to really form an opinion yet. I'm definitely gonna use the Senior Bowl as an eye test on him.

Giantsfan1080
01-22-2013, 12:14 PM
I'd do Warmack over Ansah also at this point.