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View Full Version : 2012 Top Heisman Contenders


shylo3716
08-18-2012, 06:08 PM
Name Position School Year 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Total
Matt Barkley QB USC Sr. 13 1 0 1 0 71
Montee Ball RB Wisconsin Sr. 0 9 2 1 1 45
Geno Smith QB West Virginia Sr. 1 2 2 2 2 25
Denard Robinson QB Michigan Sr. 0 2 2 4 2 24
Landry Jones QB Oklahoma Sr. 0 0 3 4 4 21
Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina Jr. 1 0 3 0 1 15
De'Anthony Thomas RB Oregon So. 0 1 2 1 1 13
Aaron Murray QB Georgia Jr. 0 0 1 1 1 6
Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina So. 0 0 0 1 0 2
EJ Manuel QB Florida State Sr. 0 0 0 0 1 1
Tyler Wilson QB Arkansas Sr. 0 0 0 0 1 1
Robert Woods WR USC Jr. 0 0 0 0 1 1

shylo3716
08-18-2012, 06:10 PM
I believe it's all on the Black Mamba this year with LaMichael James out of the picture for him to get all the touches James were getting last year.

SickwithIt1010
08-18-2012, 06:41 PM
Barner is gonna get a fair share of touches...

JRTPlaya21
08-18-2012, 07:37 PM
When are people going to realize that E.J. Manuel is nothing but hype....

SickwithIt1010
08-18-2012, 07:50 PM
Bu bu but he goes to Florida State, they are gonna return to GLORY this year.

Hurricanes25
08-18-2012, 07:57 PM
My money is on Barkley. The best QB in the nation with some dangerous weapons on the outside. Yeah, I'm picking Barkley.

tjsunstein
08-19-2012, 12:43 AM
Comes down to Geno Smith and Barkley for me. Edge to Barkley ohviously.

jth1331
08-21-2012, 10:51 AM
I'll be shocked if Barkley wins it to be honest.
I have a feeling some "underdog" QB will come out and win it, ala Robert Griffin/Cam Newton.

OSUGiants17
08-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Watch out for these guys as dark horses:
http://goldandbluezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kstate_klein.jpg

http://www.pistolsfiringblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tumblr_ltw4u6FG3a1qeflxso4_1280.jpg

I think Collin Klein, Logan Thomas, Matt Barkley, Kenjon Barner and Joseph Randle are the 5 finalists. Wouldn't be shocked to see any of them win it. The biggest dark horse out there though has to be Teddy Bridgewater from Louisville. Watch out for that kid

FUNBUNCHER
08-30-2012, 12:04 AM
When are people going to realize that E.J. Manuel is nothing but hype....


Jason Campbell 2.0.:wave:

SickwithIt1010
08-30-2012, 12:32 AM
Jason Campbell 2.0.:wave:

Jason Campbell was a great college QB so thats not a knock at the college level.

But Randle is a stud, I agree with OSUGiants in saying that he might be a dark horse. THey will be running more with a freshman QB.

SolidGold
08-30-2012, 07:19 AM
Watch out for these guys as dark horses:
http://goldandbluezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kstate_klein.jpg

http://www.pistolsfiringblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tumblr_ltw4u6FG3a1qeflxso4_1280.jpg

I think Collin Klein, Logan Thomas, Matt Barkley, Kenjon Barner and Joseph Randle are the 5 finalists. Wouldn't be shocked to see any of them win it. The biggest dark horse out there though has to be Teddy Bridgewater from Louisville. Watch out for that kid

Bridgewater isn't winning - he plays in one of the worst conferences. I wouldn't mind seeing Klein get invited to NYC - he was underrated and under-appreciated last season. If his passing game develops it will help his chances as well as boost up his draft stock.

SolidGold
08-30-2012, 07:21 AM
Jason Campbell was a good college QB so thats not a knock at the college level.

But Randle is a stud, I agree with OSUGiants in saying that he might be a dark horse. THey will be running more with a freshman QB.

Fixed it for you. Campbell was a good college QB with two great college RBs in the backfield.

TheBoyWonder22
08-30-2012, 08:10 AM
Fixed it for you. Campbell was a good college QB with two great college RBs in the backfield.
Who would have thought Carlos Rogers would have the most successful NFL career with all of those studs? Certainly not me.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-31-2012, 06:24 PM
Just made a $20 bet with my best friend that Geno Smith will be at the heisman presentation. I think he will explode this year for 40 touchdowns.

Cigaro
08-31-2012, 07:09 PM
Just made a $20 bet with my best friend that Geno Smith will be at the heisman presentation. I think he will explode this year for 40 touchdowns.

I honestly would not be that surprised if he was. Good talent surrounded by good talent, playing in a system designed to put up numbers. If he can continue the momentum from the Orange Bowl, that offense should be very fun to watch.

Docta
08-31-2012, 07:13 PM
Just made a $20 bet with my best friend that Geno Smith will be at the heisman presentation. I think he will explode this year for 40 touchdowns.
If your friend has the field, then he's probably getting the 20 bucks. Too many worthy candidates to be betting on one player.

tjsunstein
08-31-2012, 07:47 PM
Just made a $20 bet with my best friend that Geno Smith will be at the heisman presentation. I think he will explode this year for 40 touchdowns.

I honestly would not be that surprised if he was. Good talent surrounded by good talent, playing in a system designed to put up numbers. If he can continue the momentum from the Orange Bowl, that offense should be very fun to watch.
Geno Smith will finish in the top 3 of Heisman voting. He's so talented and in Holgerson's system with those WRs a little bit more mature, he's going to fill the stat sheet every week. I love that bet for you and maybe I'm being a bit of a homer but Geno might single handedly make Austin a legit Heisman darkhorse if he continues to excel in the return game as well. I'm so hyped for this season.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-31-2012, 08:02 PM
If your friend has the field, then he's probably getting the 20 bucks. Too many worthy candidates to be betting on one player.

All he has to do is be a finalist

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-31-2012, 08:04 PM
I honestly would not be that surprised if he was. Good talent surrounded by good talent, playing in a system designed to put up numbers. If he can continue the momentum from the Orange Bowl, that offense should be very fun to watch.
If this season is a repeat of their bowl game O_o

tjsunstein
08-31-2012, 08:06 PM
If this season is a repeat of their bowl game O_o
That's basically the expectation for the offense all season long. We've seen what they're capable of losing very little on offense. Scary thought, built for the big 12.

SolidGold
09-01-2012, 09:19 PM
Too soon to drop Denard from the conversation?

dezsucks (Bob)
09-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Scratch Robinson unless they run the table.

dezsucks (Bob)
09-01-2012, 10:29 PM
Too soon to drop Denard from the conversation?

He looked awful. He can not hit the broad side of a barn.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-01-2012, 11:02 PM
Damn my pick before the year was Thomas but I didnt expect them to have a good QB. Thought he'd carry them to the Pac12 title and be rewarded for it

BRAVEHEART
09-02-2012, 12:23 AM
http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/14/75/77/3399633/3/628x471.jpg

fenikz
09-02-2012, 08:17 AM
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Duke+Johnson+Miami+v+Boston+College+UcSNRTUuHb3x.j pg

NGSeiler
09-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Just made a $20 bet with my best friend that Geno Smith will be at the heisman presentation. I think he will explode this year for 40 touchdowns.

Opening performance: 32/36 (88.9%) for 323 yds & 4 TDs through the air. Add 8 rushes for 65 yds and another TD on the ground.

Verdict: Off to a good start. :beers:

tjsunstein
09-02-2012, 12:09 PM
The Geno Smith hype train is full steam ahead. Absolutely love what this season is going to bring.

Other guys I was impressed with included Marquise Lee, Le'Veon Bell, Taylor Martinez, Johnathan Franklin, De'Anthony Thomas, and Cordarelle Patterson.

TitanHope
09-02-2012, 12:24 PM
Call Me Brayme passed for 333 yards, 65.9% completion at 8.1 Y/A, and 2 TD's with no INT's against a very good secondary.

Bray got a lot of flack for his lack of production versus quality competition, so it's nice to see him prove himself a little more, even if he has Hunter and CP at WR. If he stays healthy and keeps performing like that in the SEC, then I hope he gets some Heisman hype.

SolidGold
09-02-2012, 12:32 PM
The Geno Smith hype train is full steam ahead. Absolutely love what this season is going to bring.

Other guys I was impressed with included Marquise Lee, Le'Veon Bell, Taylor Martinez, Johnathan Franklin, De'Anthony Thomas, and Cordarelle Patterson.

Really curious as to what his draft stock is going to end up being. Is it more of the system? That system is renowned for throwing up huge stats - Texas Tech/Houston/Ok St were all prolific offenses with Holgersen running them and having really good college QBs that have not translated to the NFL. The verdict is out on Weeden but he has been the only first round pick to run that offense and I think he will more than likely bust.

tjsunstein
09-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Really curious as to what his draft stock is going to end up being. Is it more of the system? That system is renowned for throwing up huge stats - Texas Tech/Houston/Ok St were all prolific offenses with Holgersen running them and having really good college QBs that have not translated to the NFL. The verdict is out on Weeden but he has been the only first round pick to run that offense and I think he will more than likely bust.
Geno Smith is a far better prospect than Brandon Weeden, Graham Harrell, and Case Keenum.

SolidGold
09-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Geno Smith is a far better prospect than Brandon Weeden, Graham Harrell, and Case Keenum.

Weeden had a stronger arm-maybe Smith is more accurate(and younger obviously) but I don't see much that separates them as prospects which could be a good thing for Smith since Weeden was a first round pick after all.

CashmoneyDrew
09-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Call Me Brayme passed for 333 yards, 65.9% completion at 8.1 Y/A, and 2 TD's with no INT's against a very good secondary.

Bray got a lot of flack for his lack of production versus quality competition, so it's nice to see him prove himself a little more, even if he has Hunter and CP at WR. If he stays healthy and keeps performing like that in the SEC, then I hope he gets some Heisman hype.

I think if Daniel McCullers gets 1 sack this season, he should win the Heisman.

Babylon
09-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Not sure anything is clear on Sept. 2nd but Denard Robinson pretty much took himself out of the competition. In past years there were some in here (no longer) that had him winning it by the middle of the first month. Then again he won't be facing any more defenses like Bama's this year.

jrdrylie
09-02-2012, 01:21 PM
Not sure anything is clear on Sept. 2nd but Denard Robinson pretty much took himself out of the competition. In past years there were some in here (no longer) that had him winning it by the middle of the first month. Then again he won't be facing any more defenses like Bama's this year.

Yeah, he's done. Watching him pass is just painful. He is as inaccurate as they come. I think a real darkhorse is Braxton Miller. He will put up huge numbers in Meyer's offense and tOSU will win probably 10 games.

Babylon
09-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Yeah, he's done. Watching him pass is just painful. He is as inaccurate as they come. I think a real darkhorse is Braxton Miller. He will put up huge numbers in Meyer's offense and tOSU will win probably 10 games.

Well OSU's schedule is pretty favorable but Miller isnt going to put up the numbers of a Matt Barkely who only has to throw a 10 yard out and have his receivers take it 70 yds so it'll be tough for him to win it. I'd say an extreme dark horse.

soybean
09-02-2012, 02:33 PM
I love braxton miller.

He won't win it though since the voters probably aren't going to give someone the heisman while the team is in the middle of sanctions.

BuckeyeDan17
09-02-2012, 03:17 PM
I think Miller is still a ways from actual contention for the heisman (year) He's going to have many ups-and-downs this season and I don't think his completion percentage will be anywhere near heisman worthy; hence, your guys' reasons for calling him an 'extreme' darkhorse.

He does some jaw-dropping **** though, he just isn't a complete package yet as far as being an elite college QB is concerned. He's got all the tools though to put it together.

I'd say next year is when **** can get real for him. He needs to focus now on knowing every nut and bolt of the offense, and still refine his throwing so some of his balls don't look like a dead duck.

Anyway, Le'Veon Bell was a monster on Friday. Not looking forward to Sept. 29th in East Lansing.

Cigaro
09-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Marcus Lattimore looked good versus Vanderbilt. If Lattimore is to win, SC will probably need to win the SEC East, but unless our passing game improves along with our passing defense, it is hard to see that happening. Clowney also looked, occasionally just completely throwing his blocker to the ground, but we really would need to win the SEC East for him to have any shot at all.

Matt Barkley got the premier start to his Heisman campaign.

If Montee Ball or LeVeon Bell are going to win the Heisman, their respective team is going to have to win the Big 10. Definitely could happen, though.

Geno Smith should be on every one's watch list. He has a harder road to get there compared to some other players, but at the same time, the offense he plays in is built for the kind of show that attracts Heisman votes. West Virginia will need to win the Big 12 for him to have a shot.

Denard Robinson is done. Completely horrific game in the national spotlight. Even if it was week one, I feel it will be impossible to overlook when considering him.

De'Anthony Thomas looks posed to make a big push. That Oregon offense is unreal, and their quarterback looks like he will be able to keep defenses from focusing solely on the run game.

There are a trio of Clemson players who may start to get mentions. Watkins is the obvious one. Ellington had an impressive game, and even if Auburn's run defense looks shoddy, its not like the ACC will feature much better. Tajh Boyd would be the last of three to get a mention, he was on a few lists last season until he started slumping midseason. With that running game and set of receivers, he may return to the spotlight. But at the same time, Clemson routinely plays well in the beginning and accumulates hype, only to collapse later on.

If I had to come up with a prediction list after week one, Matt Barkley, De'Anthony Thomas and one of Montee Ball/LeVeon Bell for sure, with a chance for Geno Smith or Marcus Lattimore also getting an invite.

shylo3716
09-02-2012, 04:09 PM
De'Anthony Thomas 3 TDs before the first half, just imagine what he would have done if he didn't get pulled.

descendency
09-02-2012, 06:53 PM
Someone really needs to vote for Chance Warmack. (I know... OL don't win the Heisman)

Halsey
09-02-2012, 08:41 PM
The SEC often gets criticized for being weak offensively. Funny how non-SEC schools often don't look so hot on offense when playing an SEC defense. Maybe people should consider that when criticizing SEC offenses.

P-L
09-08-2012, 11:12 PM
De'Anthony Thomas is playing NCAA on Freshman difficulty.

NGSeiler
09-29-2012, 06:20 PM
Sooooo Geno Smith had a solid day.

Miaoww
09-29-2012, 06:34 PM
Phillip Dorsett.

georgiafan
10-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Here is my person Todd Gurley

Plays for a top 5 undeafted team
Leads the SEC in rushing yards (536)
Leads the SEC in rushing TD's (9)
Leads the SEC in scoring offense/points
2nd in the SEC in yards per attempt (7.8)
Also has 243 KR yards and 1 TD with over 34 yards per return

tjsunstein
10-05-2012, 05:16 PM
Geno Smith will finish in the top 3 of Heisman voting. He's so talented and in Holgerson's system with those WRs a little bit more mature, he's going to fill the stat sheet every week. I love that bet for you and maybe I'm being a bit of a homer but Geno might single handedly make Austin a legit Heisman darkhorse if he continues to excel in the return game as well. I'm so hyped for this season.

Jeez, who is this guy...

thenewfeature06
10-05-2012, 05:27 PM
This stage in the season it is Geno by a good amount. I am not sure if this continues in Big12 play but at the same time not much defense is played in that conference.

Marquise Lee has had a dominant season but too hard for wideouts.

SickwithIt1010
10-05-2012, 05:34 PM
You nailed that one. Without a doubt Fitzgerald was the best player in the country back when Jason White won his, but he still got screwed. Shouldnt have even been a question IMO. Lee can continue to put up huge numbers but it wont do anything more than get him a seat in NY.

thenewfeature06
10-05-2012, 05:38 PM
And coming into the season my eyes were on Robert Woods

pshhhhhhhhhhhhh I want one of em in Oakland along with Bark

imajustkeepdreamin

SickwithIt1010
10-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Yeah, its kind of unfair to look down on Robert this year. Hes still very good, its just that Lee is better...flat out. Thats not his fault haha.

SolidGold
10-16-2012, 12:53 PM
If Manziel has a big game against LSU he deserves to be in the conversation RS Freshman or not

MassNole
10-16-2012, 12:58 PM
This stage in the season it is Geno by a good amount. I am not sure if this continues in Big12 play but at the same time not much defense is played in that conference.

Marquise Lee has had a dominant season but too hard for wideouts.

No traditional WR will win the Heisman anytime soon. For a "WR" to win it, it would have to be someone like Percy Harvin.

descendency
10-16-2012, 06:25 PM
Yeah, its kind of unfair to look down on Robert this year. Hes still very good, its just that Lee is better...flat out. Thats not his fault haha.

I think the fact that Lee is quite a bit better should show that Robert Woods is not a top 10 WR. He's a first rounder (top 25, maybe top 40), but not the kind of guy GMs want in the top 10.

Brent
10-16-2012, 06:45 PM
If Manziel has a big game against LSU he deserves to be in the conversation RS Freshman or not
We (A&M) are seriously flawed as a team.

LSU is going to show us what a top tier team looks like.

TACKLE
10-16-2012, 10:38 PM
Jeez, who is this guy...

a homer who didn't have the cajones to actually pick him to win the heisman. :P

i'm glad someone brought up manziel. can't think of a more deserving non-geno candidate at this point.

JRTPlaya21
10-16-2012, 10:55 PM
You nailed that one. Without a doubt Fitzgerald was the best player in the country back when Jason White won his, but he still got screwed. Shouldnt have even been a question IMO. Lee can continue to put up huge numbers but it wont do anything more than get him a seat in NY.

That was such a farce. I'm still salty Fitzy didn't win it. He had a touchdown catch 18 straight games.

PeterMurray
10-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Gotta give the nod to Manti Te'o right now.

SolidGold
10-17-2012, 02:54 PM
a homer who didn't have the cajones to actually pick him to win the heisman. :P

i'm glad someone brought up manziel. can't think of a more deserving non-geno candidate at this point.

All props go to Brent - pretty sure he was the first person to really talk about Manziel - i just love watching the guy - in terms of excitement he is a much more dynamic player than Geno Smith

PeterMurray
10-18-2012, 11:37 AM
If Manziel has a big game against LSU he deserves to be in the conversation RS Freshman or not

Completely agreed. If Manziel can keep winning games in the SEC, especially against the likes of LSU he absolutely has to be considered a candidate.

wicket
10-18-2012, 12:11 PM
You nailed that one. Without a doubt Fitzgerald was the best player in the country back when Jason White won his, but he still got screwed. Shouldnt have even been a question IMO. Lee can continue to put up huge numbers but it wont do anything more than get him a seat in NY.

this can be said for so many heismen, its ingram shouldnt have won, bradford was iffy, same for troy smith, matt leinart and plenty of other guys

SniperDosPuntoCero
10-18-2012, 12:39 PM
Gotta give the nod to Manti Te'o right now.

Not even the best defensive player on his team or the best linebacker in the country, but sure, I guess.

SniperDosPuntoCero
10-18-2012, 12:40 PM
this can be said for so many heismen, its ingram shouldnt have won, bradford was iffy, same for troy smith, matt leinart and plenty of other guys

Troy Smith shouldn't have won? Why not? And why not for Leinart?

soybean
10-18-2012, 12:42 PM
Troy Smith shouldn't have won? Why not? And why not for Leinart?

cause they didn't turn out to be good pros. :njx:

OSUGiants17
10-18-2012, 02:20 PM
Not even the best defensive player on his team or the best linebacker in the country, but sure, I guess.
So who is then? :njx:

:spam:

MassNole
10-18-2012, 02:24 PM
Eric Crouch had no business winning it in 2001, he and Jason White are probably the least deserving winners since Gino Toretta, who is easily the most undeserving winner of all-time.

SolidGold
10-18-2012, 03:08 PM
Eric Crouch had no business winning it in 2001, he and Jason White are probably the least deserving winners since Gino Toretta, who is easily the most undeserving winner of all-time.

Throw Mark Ingram on that list.

MassNole
10-18-2012, 03:11 PM
Throw Mark Ingram on that list.

I cannot believe he is the only player from Alabama to ever win the Heisman. Who was more deserving in 2009?

SolidGold
10-18-2012, 03:30 PM
I cannot believe he is the only player from Alabama to ever win the Heisman. Who was more deserving in 2009?

Gerhart was a better running back.

tjsunstein
10-18-2012, 04:25 PM
Let's not pretend the TT loss takes Geno's hands off of it, but another L will.

keylime_5
10-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Gerhart was a better running back.

Suh was the most deserving that year. Most dominating year by a defensive player you can ask for.

SolidGold
10-18-2012, 05:10 PM
Suh was the most deserving that year. Most dominating year by a defensive player you can ask for.

Suh was a beast...Gerhart was better than Ingram considering they played the same position, SEC bias had a role in the 2009 Heisman vote for sure.

Todd Bertuzzi
10-18-2012, 05:12 PM
Suh was never going to win after Nebraska blew it vs Texas, even though he was downright dominant in that game.

gpngc
10-18-2012, 05:19 PM
Let's not pretend the TT loss takes Geno's hands off of it, but another L will.

I want Geno to lose for financial reasons, but he could lose three games and his stats will still give him the award.

If he has 40ish TDs and less than 3 interceptions... I mean come on.

And that's exactly what he's going to have.

If has ZERO picks? It's over.

This is a case in which the stats are just too historic.

Giantsfan1080
10-18-2012, 05:38 PM
So who is then? :njx:

:spam:

I could make an argument that Khaseem Greene has been a better LB this year than Te'o.

niel89
10-18-2012, 05:45 PM
**** that. Toby > Ingram forever. Gerhart was better that year, but Ingram was on a higher profile team. I think east coast bias is eh, but I believe it actually happened. Toby dominated games and the pace of play. 4 yard runs in the 1st quarter ground into 12 yard runs in the 4th. I wish more of Gerhart and Luck overlapped. I'm fully Ger-hard right now.

Coming up 2nd 3 years in a row sucked man. Cam clearly deserved his, but I would argue for Luck and Gerhart in the others.

SniperDosPuntoCero
10-18-2012, 06:22 PM
So who is then? :njx:

:spam:

Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.

Giantsfan1080
10-18-2012, 06:27 PM
Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.

Agreed. For a LB to win the Heisman he'd have to be 5x better than the next LB in college. There are plenty of guys on the same level as him and better.

Complex
10-18-2012, 06:48 PM
Manti Te'o lol really? Clowney deserves it more than Manti.

Darren McFadden should of won it the year Troy Smith won it.

SniperDosPuntoCero
10-18-2012, 07:21 PM
Manti Te'o lol really? Clowney deserves it more than Manti.

Darren McFadden should of won it the year Troy Smith won it.

Yeah, but Clowney doesn't play for the undefeated media darling, either.

Defensive players who have been more dominant than Manti Te'o off the top of my head in no order: Jadeveon Clowney, Stephon Tuitt, Jarvis Jones, Jordan Poyer, Will Sutton, Dee Milliner, Kawann Short. Again, that's off the top of my head.

P-L
10-18-2012, 08:10 PM
Yeah, Tuitt is a monster. Te'o has really impressed me this year (I thought he was really overrated the previous two years), but I agree with Sniper that Tuitt is the best player on that defense.

sbh15
10-18-2012, 08:33 PM
Notre Dame's website lists him as having 6.5 TFL and 6.5 sacks... do sacks count toward his TFL (and therefor account for all of them) or are they separate statistics?

Giantsfan1080
10-18-2012, 08:34 PM
CFBstats has him with 2 TFL and 0 sacks.

Giantsfan1080
10-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Notre Dame's website lists him as having 6.5 TFL and 6.5 sacks... do sacks count toward his TFL (and therefor account for all of them) or are they separate statistics?

ND's website has the same thing. You must be looking at last year?

sbh15
10-18-2012, 08:37 PM
CFBstats has him with 2 TFL and 0 sacks.

I was referring to Tuitt, not Te'o

Giantsfan1080
10-18-2012, 08:41 PM
I was referring to Tuitt, not Te'o

Sorry about that. Sacks do count as TFL though. He has the same amount of yards lost in sacks as he does TFL. I don't think that's a coincidence.

SniperDosPuntoCero
10-18-2012, 11:52 PM
Yeah, in college, sacks are TFLs.

MassNole
10-19-2012, 09:22 AM
Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.

T'eo has some Luke Kuechley-esque stat padding going on this year.

OSUGiants17
10-21-2012, 08:58 AM
So with Klein's 7 TD performance over Geno Smith(who had 2 INTs on the day), does Klein become the new frontrunner?

MassNole
10-21-2012, 08:59 AM
So with Klein's 7 TD performance over Geno Smith(who had 2 INTs on the day), does Klein become the new frontrunner?

Well it's obvious at this point Geno is just another system QB, so he has no business being in the discussion at all. If these were games that were lost like 49-45 or 55-42. it would be one thing, but each time he's played a real defense he's been embarrassed. Now I really wish WV had cancelled the game earlier this season.

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I don't think Smith is a just a 'system' QB, he happens to play in an offensive system at WVU that's been figured out. It was like TT and K-State knew all the routes being run by WVU WRs and never bit on the option runs.
BTW
K-State is a really good football team, possibly one of the top 4 teams in the BCS.

That said, the Heisman IMO is Klein's to lose. If K-State finishes the regular season undefeated I think he wins it in a walk.

SolidGold
10-21-2012, 10:43 AM
I don't think Smith is a just a 'system' QB, he happens to play in an offensive system at WVU that's been figured out. It was like TT and K-State knew all the routes being run by WVU WRs and never bit on the option runs.
BTW
K-State is a really good football team, possibly one of the top 4 teams in the BCS.

That said, the Heisman IMO is Klein's to lose. If K-State finishes the regular season undefeated I think he wins it in a walk.

TT and KSU kept everything in front of them and tackled WVU receivers once they got they ball. Other teams did not have the talent or the coaching to have their defenders tackle in space. ESPN CFB Final put a stat up that Smith in the last two losses is 2-23 on passes of 15 yds +. WVU has a few challenges left and could potentially lose the next 4 games.

I think Smith is very much a system QB - when things were going good within the system and things were going WVU's way it was easy to heap praise upon Smith yet he has not seemed to handle the adversity particularly well - throwing chairs and not keeping his composure on the sideline. Just think Cam Netwon's non-composure on the sidelines this season - it will have an effect on the draft process. The victory at Texas is becoming less impressive as the weeks go on seeing that their defense is absolute garbage - Smith has not got it done against good defenses.

It was great to see a very well coached and well balanced team on both sides of the ball completely dominate one of the hyped up offenses of college football.

That said Klein leapfrogged Smith as the Heisman frontrunner and did it in remarkable fashion in a head to head matchup.

Halsey
10-21-2012, 10:44 AM
The Heisman Trophy: Awarded to the nations most outstanding Big 12 QB with pretty stats.

SolidGold
10-21-2012, 10:51 AM
The Heisman Trophy: Awarded to the nations most outstanding Big 12 QB with pretty stats.

I wouldn't say Klein has the prettiest stats. He is a great competitor and leader with intangibles that also make him a good heisman candidate.

sbh15
10-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Klein has 24 total touchdowns and quarterbacks the nation's #4 team. I don't think there's a player in the nation more important to an undefeated/1-loss team (because that has become a requirement barring some unreal stats)

SolidGold
10-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Klein had another 4 TD outing vs TT. Really solidifying his position going into the home stretch.

TACKLE
10-29-2012, 12:32 PM
Klein has 24 total touchdowns and quarterbacks the nation's #4 team. I don't think there's a player in the nation more important to an undefeated/1-loss team (because that has become a requirement barring some unreal stats)

It is hard to argue against Klein but a case could be made for Braxton Miller using that criteria.

gpngc
10-29-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm playing devil's advocate here as I have a strong rooting interest in Klein to win it, but why not McCarron? He's got 0 interceptions and is the best offensive player on the best team in the country.

gpngc
10-29-2012, 01:00 PM
It is hard to argue against Klein but a case could be made for Braxton Miller using that criteria.

This is a pretty good point showing how the Bowl ban might have some influence.

But Klein has had signature wins whereas Miller hasn't.

sbh15
10-29-2012, 03:00 PM
I'm playing devil's advocate here as I have a strong rooting interest in Klein to win it, but why not McCarron? He's got 0 interceptions and is the best offensive player on the best team in the country.

because Alabama would, in all likelihood, still be undefeated without McCarron. he'll be a finalist at this rate, but I wouldn't bet on him to finish ahead of Klein (and I'd contend he doesn't deserve to at this point, anyway)

MassNole
10-29-2012, 03:08 PM
because Alabama would, in all likelihood, still be undefeated without McCarron. he'll be a finalist at this rate, but I wouldn't bet on him to finish ahead of Klein (and I'd contend he doesn't deserve to at this point, anyway)

They would definitely not be undefeated with Phillip "how did I ever get a D1 offer" Ely as their starting QB.

sbh15
10-29-2012, 11:13 PM
given the teams they've played, their defense, and their running game? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were undefeated

edit: granted, I thought they had someone better when I made that post.. it would certainly be difficult with a crappy freshman at qb, but Alabama is talented enough to do it

MassNole
10-30-2012, 06:22 AM
given the teams they've played, their defense, and their running game? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were undefeated

edit: granted, I thought they had someone better when I made that post.. it would certainly be difficult with a crappy freshman at qb, but Alabama is talented enough to do it

Running game would be hurting because you could load the box. McCarron at least keeps teams honest.

thenewfeature06
10-30-2012, 09:53 AM
Maybe this is the year a non QB gets it?

Maybe Te'o.

MassNole
10-30-2012, 03:18 PM
It is criminal how little Heisman hype Giovani Bernard of UNC gets.....

In 7 games he has run for 930 yards, 10 TDs, with an eye popping 7.4 YPC. On top of that he has 32 receptions for 319 yards and 3 TDs to go along with 12 punt returns for 249 yards (20.75 avg) and 2 TDs.

Scary what his numbers would look like if he hadn't missed 2 games (both likely wins if he played).

PeterMurray
10-31-2012, 09:44 AM
Gio Bernard is no question the most overlooked guy in the country when it comes to this list. The numbers above prove that but the fact is the heisman goes to teams that win which is why I think people need to really think about McCarron for heisman.
Right now my list is (in order):
Te'o, Klein, Smith, Dat Thomas and McCarron
Dat doesnt get enough touches and the may lose games... McCarron will be the QB and offensive star of the #1 team at the end of the year which is a recipe for a heisman winner in these "up in the air" seasons.

FUNBUNCHER
10-31-2012, 11:51 AM
It's Klein IMO by a wide margin, 'his to lose' as they say.:njx:

No player is more valuable to the success of his football team. No player seems to be as unstoppable as Klein. His game is very reminiscent of Tebow's, except Klein's throwing motion is less funky.

It's hard for a guy like McCarron to win it, but I also doubt if Alabama would be undefeated with a lesser QB starting for the Tide.

I can't see a one way defensive player ever winning it unless he was a freakish pass rusher, or a DT who stopped the run AND had @ 20 sacks.

gpngc
11-05-2012, 05:14 PM
So what did Alabama's win do to McCarron's chances?

Realistically, it is EASY to see he is not the most outstanding player in college football.

But, he will be arguably the most important player on the best team, which I think voters will look at.

Also, he'll likely finish the season with ZERO turnovers, which I'm sure will be a record.

But is there any argument for him after a 154-yard performance, even though he DID lead the game-winning drive?

FUNBUNCHER
11-05-2012, 05:29 PM
If McCarron finishes the season undefeated AND with zero INTs, he would be a major darkhorse for the Heisman.

I don't care how dominant a team a QB plays for in college, there's never been a QB at a high profile program that's never thrown an INT during the season.
Even if McCarron throws only 3 INTs the entire season, I think he gets some Heisman buzz.

keylime_5
11-05-2012, 05:37 PM
What is this crap about McCarron and Te'o for Heisman? Game manager and a good linebacker (who wouldn't even be in the discussion if Notre Dame wasn't undefeated). Playing great defense is such a team effort so much moreso than offense, that is why defenders don't win the heisman unless they play both ways or make a bunch of TDs on turnovers and/or special teams. McCarron is riding the wave of a super taltented team to an undefeated season. Glorified game manager. I mean the guy's "signature heisman moment" is throwing a screen and then TJ Yeldon makes an awesome play to make a bunch of people miss and get in the endzone.

Heisman should be list: Collin Klein, Johnny Manziel, Kenjon Barner, Braxton Miller, Marqise Lee. Those 5 should go to New York at this point. They have been the 5 most outstanding players, and that is what the Heisman used to be. Really Manziel should be the clear frontrunner, but he happens to play for Texas A&M and not an undefeated super power. His total offensive statistics this season are insane and eclipse every other QB - and he plays in the "mighty" SEC. Klein should be a close second or 1A.

gpngc
11-05-2012, 05:38 PM
What is this crap about McCarron and Te'o for Heisman? Game manager and a good linebacker (who wouldn't even be in the discussion if Notre Dame wasn't undefeated). Playing great defense is such a team effort so much moreso than offense, that is why defenders don't win the heisman unless they play both ways or make a bunch of TDs on turnovers and/or special teams. McCarron is riding the wave of a super taltented team to an undefeated season. Glorified game manager. I mean the guy's "signature heisman moment" is throwing a screen and then TJ Yeldon makes an awesome play to make a bunch of people miss and get in the endzone.

Heisman should be list: Collin Klein, Johnny Manziel, Kenjon Barner, Braxton Miller, Marqise Lee. Those 5 should go to New York at this point. They have been the 5 most outstanding players, and that is what the Heisman used to be.

I agree with you but my questions have to do with what we think the voters think, not what's right...

JRTPlaya21
11-05-2012, 05:59 PM
I take it Braxton's signature moment is getting hurt and having the backup QB lead the team to an emphatic win over Purdue? As gaudy as Lee's numbers are there is no way he will win it over a QB or RB. Now we all know A.J. & Manti probably won't win it. No need to rag on them because Braxton is having a great season which basically equates to nothing because of your bowl ban.

keylime_5
11-05-2012, 06:08 PM
I don't think Braxton should win it. He's not quite there as a passer and has been inconsistent despite being probably the best runner in the nation, including both runningbacks and quarterbacks. I think with a monster game against Michigan though would warrant him a trip to New York as one of the five finalists. Bowl ban has nothing to do with Braxton. The Heisman goes out before the bowls. Ohio State playing a weak schedule this year will have more to do with it than anything. I mean Griffin won last year on a 3 loss Baylor team that wound up in the Alamo Bowl.

Not really ragging on McCarron and Te'o as much as the system that puts team record over how dominant a player is. McCarron has good stats as a game manager on a great Alabama team with 30 something future NFLers on it. Te'o is a good player on a great defense of an undfefeated team. He's not that dominant though. There have been defensive players on undefeated teams in the past having better or as good of seasons in the past who got no where near the Heisman hype as he is. I think Notre Dame and the name recognition from the year before play a part in that.

JRTPlaya21
11-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Pretty much. It's almost like everyone forgets that they haven't done a damn thing of relevance since Holtz was lisping on the sidelines. I figure Klein leads now. But anything can happen in the next month.

keylime_5
11-05-2012, 06:14 PM
I just think it's a darn shame that Manziel isn't top 2 on like everyone's list by now. Maybe if he has a killer game against Alabama and upsets them he'll get it, otherwise it's probably Klein's to lose.

JRTPlaya21
11-05-2012, 06:19 PM
Johnny Football is killing it. That kid may give us some serious fits this Saturday.

TACKLE
11-05-2012, 06:44 PM
I don't think Braxton should win it. He's not quite there as a passer and has been inconsistent despite being probably the best runner in the nation, including both runningbacks and quarterbacks. I think with a monster game against Michigan though would warrant him a trip to New York as one of the five finalists.

Braxton is a far, far better passer than the guy who is favored to win the Heisman and I agree with you that Brax is probably been the best runner in college football this year. Braxton is better than Klein as a player basically in every way, is more productive and also has carried his team to an undefeated record. I understand a lot of other narratives go into the Heisman voting but if the vote is for best offensive skill position player on a undefeated/1-loss team, Braxton would probably get my vote.

SolidGold
11-05-2012, 07:14 PM
Braxton is a far, far better passer than the guy who is favored to win the Heisman and I agree with you that Brax is probably been the best runner in college football this year. Braxton is better than Klein as a player basically in every way, is more productive and also has carried his team to an undefeated record. I understand a lot of other narratives go into the Heisman voting but if the vote is for best offensive skill position player on a undefeated/1-loss team, Braxton would probably get my vote.

Klein is a better passer than Miller - makes better decisions, has great accuracy and good arm strength. He is makes the offense better. Miller got knocked out of the Purdue game and Guiton came in and pulled off the win. I would argue Martinez is equivalent to Miller as well. Klein is rightfully the Heisman favorite. Johnny Football should be number 2 behind him.

P-L
11-05-2012, 07:48 PM
Braxton isn't even a slightly better than Klein, much less far better. He is a beast of a runner though. He may be the best in college football, regardless of position.

FUNBUNCHER
11-05-2012, 08:00 PM
Is Manziel a true frosh??
He'll get his shot at the Heisman especially playing in the SEC.

Cigaro
11-05-2012, 08:05 PM
Is Manziel a true frosh??
He'll get his shot at the Heisman especially playing in the SEC.

RS FR...............

keylime_5
11-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Braxton isn't even a slightly better than Klein, much less far better. He is a beast of a runner though. He may be the best in college football, regardless of position.

I'll agree with this. Klein is a better passer right now. Miller has the tools to be a great passer - strong arm, nimble feet, lightning release. Very raw right now still. Inconsistent mechanics, decision making and accuracy not there yet.

Manziel should win the heisman this year though he won't. Klein should be a close #2.

gpngc
11-05-2012, 08:38 PM
Another thing to think about with Klein or Barner is that if they both go undefeated, the guy who DOESN'T get the title game bid might get some sympathy votes...

Brent
11-05-2012, 09:58 PM
Johnny Football is killing it. That kid may give us some serious fits this Saturday.
as much as I love a fellow Aggie, Collin Klein is undoubtedly the most deserving of the Heisman

JoeJoeBrown
11-05-2012, 10:50 PM
https://twitter.com/piper_15/status/265622817779904512/photo/1

Note that I like Te'o, but the hype is a bit much. Shazier is a very good, but not OMG awesome outside LB for OSU. His stats (I know, stats can lie) are better than Te'o's.

My point is, he's very good, just not Heisman worthy, or even extraordinary. He's a good story, which is why the media is hyping him.

dabears10
11-06-2012, 06:56 AM
https://twitter.com/piper_15/status/265622817779904512/photo/1

Note that I like Te'o, but the hype is a bit much. Shazier is a very good, but not OMG awesome outside LB for OSU. His stats (I know, stats can lie) are better than Te'o's.

My point is, he's very good, just not Heisman worthy, or even extraordinary. He's a good story, which is why the media is hyping him.

Seems odd that this:
Ar2w6wEG5MY
is a half a sack or less, I believe he had half a sack in the Pitt game.

JoeJoeBrown
11-06-2012, 08:06 AM
Seems odd that this:
Ar2w6wEG5MY
is a half a sack or less, I believe he had half a sack in the Pitt game.

Maybe it means that he only has one nut?

Looks like it is 1.5.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/517633/manti-teo

J-Mike88
11-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Collin Klein didn't look like a Heisman Trophy winner tonight even though they beat TCU.

Johnny Football did.

This is a down-year for Heisman production all-in-all.

Will there be a Signature Moment coming down the stretch?
Maniel won't have another spotlight like today..... but if he racks up big numbers, who knows?

TACKLE
11-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Marqise Lee. That is all.

SolidGold
11-11-2012, 12:31 AM
Collin Klein didn't look like a Heisman Trophy winner tonight even though they beat TCU.

Johnny Football did.

This is a down-year for Heisman production all-in-all.

Will there be a Signature Moment coming down the stretch?
Maniel won't have another spotlight like today..... but if he racks up big numbers, who knows?

I wouldn't go that far. Alot of players are having great seasons. ESPN basically starting the Griffin hype train after the TCU game last year and handed him the trophy after that game. I felt Luck was robbed last year because of this.

Manziel is a more exciting player than Griffin - he is playing against better competition and the thing that separates him from Griffin is the fact he is a much more improvisational/spontaneous player.

I still think Klein should be the frontrunner - he is the key cog in the offense and the reason they are going to be ranked #1 when the next poll comes out. He is under appreciated because he is consistently good every week.. He is a very productive player and is responsible for 30+ TDs with two games to go. If he does falter down the stretch Manziel would be the next man up.

OSUGiants17
11-11-2012, 12:39 AM
I think the final 5 at this point are set after Manziel upsetting McCarron and Alabama. The final 5 will Klein, Barner, Te'o, Manziel and Miller. WRs simply don't get the hype they deserve and USC failed miserably to live up to live up to their expectations this year and their record isn't good enough to send a WR from their team to the finals, no matter how good he is.

sbh15
11-12-2012, 01:38 AM
when you consider the fact that Manziel has 2 stat-padder games vs SHS and Missouri to end the season, I find it very hard to believe that anyone else is going to take this Heisman from him.

he could easily hit 3000 passing yards, 1200 rushing yards, and 40 total tds by the time this season ends

TACKLE
11-12-2012, 01:57 AM
when you consider the fact that Manziel has 2 stat-padder games vs SHS and Missouri to end the season, I find it very hard to believe that anyone else is going to take this Heisman from him.

he could easily hit 3000 passing yards, 1200 rushing yards, and 40 total tds by the time this season ends

Stat padder games yes but also two games no one will be watching/giving a **** about.

keylime_5
11-12-2012, 09:47 AM
doesn't matter after what he did against Bama. Klein and other others have to have memorable monster games between now and then to get the Heisman from Manziel imo....but the overrated team record stat might win out again you never know.

FUNBUNCHER
11-16-2012, 05:44 AM
when you consider the fact that Manziel has 2 stat-padder games vs SHS and Missouri to end the season, I find it very hard to believe that anyone else is going to take this Heisman from him.

he could easily hit 3000 passing yards, 1200 rushing yards, and 40 total tds by the time this season ends

Check how many times a freshman or RS freshman has ever won the Heisman.
Yeah what class you're in isn't supposed to matter, but to many older voters it still does.

Besides Manziel is going up against a guy in Klein who has his team in NC title contention.
Manziel will be the frontrunner next season but he's not gonna win it in 2012.
(I don't think he's going to win it!lol It's not like it would be impossible for Manziel to win it though.)

AntoinCD
11-16-2012, 05:59 AM
when you consider the fact that Manziel has 2 stat-padder games vs SHS and Missouri to end the season, I find it very hard to believe that anyone else is going to take this Heisman from him.

he could easily hit 3000 passing yards, 1200 rushing yards, and 40 total tds by the time this season ends

Eh, Klein has 2 as well. You have Baylor giving up 40 points per game and then Texas giving up 30. Plus the Texas game will have everyone watching because that will be the game against a likely top 12-15 team to remain unbeaten and finish #1 in the country.

Klein will either have to lose or play really badly in either game to not win the Heisman now

TACKLE
11-17-2012, 05:45 PM
I know everyone's decided they don't want a WR to win the Heisman but...

Marqise Lee: 107 rec, 1605 yards, 14 TD's/10 carries, 110 yards/701 return yards, 1 TD/220 all purpose yards per game

tjsunstein
11-17-2012, 06:13 PM
I know everyone's decided they don't want a WR to win the Heisman but...

Marqise Lee: 107 rec, 1605 yards, 14 TD's/10 carries, 110 yards/701 return yards, 1 TD/220 all purpose yards per game

WR on a 7-4 team that wont see a conference championship game, though.

TACKLE
11-17-2012, 06:22 PM
WR on a 7-4 team that wont see a conference championship game, though.

I understand there's other external factors that go into winning the Heisman but he is the best player in college football.

FUNBUNCHER
11-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Basically the same stats as Kendall Wright for Baylor last season.
It's really hard for a WR to win the Heisman if most of his production is only from pass receptions.

SuperPacker
11-17-2012, 07:35 PM
I beleeve!!!

Smooth Criminal
11-17-2012, 10:15 PM
So we all know who's getting the Heisman after tonight right?

FUNBUNCHER
11-17-2012, 10:24 PM
If K-State loses, that leaves an opening for who??
Right now Manziel looks like the most deserving candidate IMO.

Shane P. Hallam
11-17-2012, 10:37 PM
Manziel for Heisman.

descendency
11-17-2012, 11:10 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/597/830/manzielscoobydoo3_original.png

Smooth Criminal
11-18-2012, 06:54 AM
Braxton isn't getting enough mention. He won't win, but if he can lead Ohio State to 12-0 and have 3000+ total yards I cant help but think he'd win it if this team was playing for a NC.

Not getting a conference title game would usually hurt. But no other candidate will be playing in a conference title game either.

tjsunstein
11-18-2012, 09:16 AM
Manziel
Klein
Te'o
Miller
Barner

SolidGold
11-18-2012, 10:21 AM
Manziel for Heisman.

Yup...Klein blew it against a subpar Baylor defense

descendency
11-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Manziel
Klein
Te'o
Miller
Barner

Teo with a decent game should be over Klein.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Manziel
Lee
Te'o
Barner
Klein

Miaoww
11-24-2012, 07:17 PM
The Heisman is for the best player in college football, right?

Well clearly that's Duke Johnson.

gpngc
11-24-2012, 10:59 PM
Manziel won it tonight. Excellent.

soybean
11-24-2012, 11:17 PM
It's going to be Teo.

undefeated team. Senior. Good stats.

The fact that the only standout offensive player is a freshman will give the heisman committee a reason to give it to a defensive player this year.

gpngc
11-24-2012, 11:18 PM
It's going to be Teo.

undefeated team. Senior. Good stats.

Nope. Manziel broke the SEC yardage record. He had the signature moment.

Vegas has it as Manziel.

soybean
11-24-2012, 11:19 PM
Nope. Manziel broke the SEC yardage record. He had the signature moment.

Vegas has it as Manziel.

hmm interesting. I definitely would not be disappointed if he wins it.

gpngc
11-24-2012, 11:22 PM
If ND had an offensive player with awesome stats, that might be different. But you'd need to have a record-breaking, once-in-a-lifetime defensive performance to get it over a guy who broke the freaking SEC yardage record and beat Bama on the road lol.

Te'o will finish second, but it won't be close.

G Mobile
11-24-2012, 11:31 PM
Its gotta be Manziel. The only argument I see against him is that he is a freshman, and I don't think that really matters. He has the moments and the #s.

StickSkills
11-24-2012, 11:55 PM
It's too bad that USC is 7-5, as I think Lee is one of the best players in the FBS right now.

Bert Macklin
11-24-2012, 11:56 PM
It's Johnny ******* Football.

Mufasa
11-25-2012, 12:11 AM
This season is the least I've followed college football in years. Has Te'o really had that great of a year to be in the Heisman conversation as a defensive player? More or less deserving than Suh?

Smooth Criminal
11-25-2012, 07:10 AM
I think he's less deserving than Suh. Teo is awesome, but Suh was the most dominant player in college football that year.

It's gotta be Johnny. He sealed it up yesterday with a nice stat booster.

Brent
11-25-2012, 08:01 AM
To quote ESPN, Manziel "became the SEC's single-season total yardage record-holder, eclipsing Cam Newton's mark of 4,327 (Manziel finished with 4,600 for the season, breaking Newton's mark in two fewer games)."

TACKLE
11-25-2012, 01:01 PM
This season is the least I've followed college football in years. Has Te'o really had that great of a year to be in the Heisman conversation as a defensive player? More or less deserving than Suh?

Significantly less.

Hurricanes25
11-25-2012, 01:04 PM
My pick is Manziel.

It's too bad that USC is 7-5, as I think Lee is one of the best players in the FBS right now.
Absolutely. Lee has had a ridiculous season. If USC was a little better this year, Lee would get a lot of consideration.

wicket
11-25-2012, 01:25 PM
To quote ESPN, Manziel "became the SEC's single-season total yardage record-holder, eclipsing Cam Newton's mark of 4,327 (Manziel finished with 4,600 for the season, breaking Newton's mark in two fewer games)."

it remains sumlins offense so those stats arent really serious and he screwed the pooch against UF and LSU.

I really struggle to find a guy to vote for tbh

SolidGold
11-25-2012, 06:35 PM
it remains sumlins offense so those stats arent really serious and he screwed the pooch against UF and LSU.

I really struggle to find a guy to vote for tbh

Newton and Tebow both played in spread option explosive offenses coached by Meyer and Chizik - can't really hold that against him. Manziel put up better numbers in the same conference. He showed up vs Bama and beat the number 1 team in the country.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
11-25-2012, 11:24 PM
I hope teo is nowhere near the award. Id rather see jadaveon clowney. If it went to best player in the country it should go to marquise lee.

JoeJoeBrown
11-26-2012, 11:12 AM
I hope teo is nowhere near the award. Id rather see jadaveon clowney. If it went to best player in the country it should go to marquise lee.

Agree. T'e'e'e'o'o'o is greatly overrated. Very good player, but not a world beater.

Giantsfan1080
11-26-2012, 12:36 PM
It's Manziel by far. Te'o even in the conversation is a joke.

niel89
11-26-2012, 10:48 PM
I love Teo and I would kill to have him available for the Ravens to snap up, but he shouldn't be in the heisman debate. Great kid with a great story playing on a great defense on a top team, but he isn't a crazy amazing defensive player.

TACKLE
11-27-2012, 02:57 PM
It's Manziel by far. Te'o even in the conversation is a joke.

This. He's not the best defensive player in college football let alone best overall player.

wicket
11-28-2012, 09:47 AM
Newton and Tebow both played in spread option explosive offenses coached by Meyer and Chizik - can't really hold that against him. Manziel put up better numbers in the same conference. He showed up vs Bama and beat the number 1 team in the country.

cant compare meyer or chiziks system to sumlins system. I would compare it to the system leach ran at texas tech and those QBs were nowhere near the heisman either dispite amazing seasons.

Also the fact that Manziel shat the bed on two of his three biggest games is really an issue for me. Also keep in mind he had a Heisman half against Bama, kid didnt do **** in the second half

keylime_5
11-28-2012, 09:50 AM
It would be a stretch to call what Auburn ran "Chizik's" system. That was Gus Malzahn.

wicket
11-28-2012, 09:59 AM
It would be a stretch to call what Auburn ran "Chizik's" system. That was Gus Malzahn.

thats also true/fair

SolidGold
11-28-2012, 10:32 AM
cant compare meyer or chiziks system to sumlins system. I would compare it to the system leach ran at texas tech and those QBs were nowhere near the heisman either dispite amazing seasons.

Also the fact that Manziel shat the bed on two of his three biggest games is really an issue for me. Also keep in mind he had a Heisman half against Bama, kid didnt do **** in the second half

Newton and Tebow gained alot of their yards on designed run plays. Manziel gained most of his rushing yards on broken plays - ie passing plays that did not work out so he took off and created with his feet. He is a much more improvisational and exciting player than either Tebow or Newton.

Its unfair to give more credit to the system for Manziel and less to either Tebow or Newton. The icing on the cake for Manziel is that A&M was essentially a big 12 team coming in against all those vaunted SEC defenses and putting up points on all of them. At the beginning of the season all the pundits were stating that Missouri would have an easier time transitioning to the SEC and A&M would struggle while the opposite proved true.

Klein was my frontrunner but he blew it against Baylor. Manziel now leads the way as the best player in the country. Teo is not even the best linebacker in the nation and those are the only three that should be in the conversation. Manziel came out of nowhere and took college football by storm - as always have to give props to Brent for being the first to mention him on this site.

wicket
11-28-2012, 10:43 AM
one last thing to consider when comparing Manziel and Newton:
the difference between how they performed against teh top opponents and the worst opponents. Im seperating both their schedules in two halves with newtons having 7 on the tough half for the seccg:
Manziel tough 6: Alabama, UF, Florida, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri
Manziel bottom 6: Arkansas (who were without QB otherwise theyd swith with mizzou), Sam Houston State, Auburn, SMU, SC State and LaTech

Manziel passing vs top: 223 Att 155 comp @ 70% 1576 yards 7.1 y/at 6tds 6int
Manziel passing vs bottom: 177 att 118 comp @67% 10.4 y/a 18 tds 2 int
Manziel rushing vs top: 105 att 504yrds @4.8ypc 6tds
Manziel carries vs bottom: 79 att 677yrds @8.6 yoc 13 tds

Newtons top 7: SCar, SCar(SECCG), LSU, Bama, MSU, Arkie, Georgia
Newtons bottom 6: Mississippi, Kentucky, Clemson, LaMo, Chattanooga, Arkansas St

Cam vs top passing: 133 att 89 comp @ 67% 9.2 y/a 1219yrds 14 tds 2 int
Cam vs bot passing: 113 att 76 comp @ 67% 12.1y/a 1370yrds 14tds 4 int

Cam vs top rushing: 162 att 914 yrds @5.6 ypc 13tds
Cam vs bot rushing: 80 att 495 yrds @6.2 ypc 7 tds

the thing is, Cam showed up in big games big time, manziel hasnt. Not saying you need as good of a year as cam to be called a heisman contender. Just saying that acting like their resume is even remotely comparable outside of superficial stats is just flat out wrong imo

wicket
11-28-2012, 10:45 AM
Newton and Tebow gained alot of their yards on designed run plays. Manziel gained most of his rushing yards on broken plays - ie passing plays that did not work out so he took off and created with his feet. He is a much more improvisational and exciting player than either Tebow or Newton.

Its unfair to give more credit to the system for Manziel and less to either Tebow or Newton. The icing on the cake for Manziel is that A&M was essentially a big 12 team coming in against all those vaunted SEC defenses and putting up points on all of them. At the beginning of the season all the pundits were stating that Missouri would have an easier time transitioning to the SEC and A&M would struggle while the opposite proved true.

Klein was my frontrunner but he blew it against Baylor. Manziel now leads the way as the best player in the country. Teo is not even the best linebacker in the nation and those are the only three that should be in the conversation. Manziel came out of nowhere and took college football by storm - as always have to give props to Brent for being the first to mention him on this site.

not saying teo should win, just saying i have a bunch of reasons why id struggle to give it to manziel. there are no other slam dunk picks as well but still

JoeJoeBrown
11-28-2012, 01:29 PM
one last thing to consider when comparing Manziel and Newton:
the difference between how they performed against teh top opponents and the worst opponents. Im seperating both their schedules in two halves with newtons having 7 on the tough half for the seccg:
Manziel tough 6: Alabama, UF, Florida, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri
Manziel bottom 6: Arkansas (who were without QB otherwise theyd swith with mizzou), Sam Houston State, Auburn, SMU, SC State and LaTech

Manziel passing vs top: 223 Att 155 comp @ 70% 1576 yards 7.1 y/at 6tds 6int
Manziel passing vs bottom: 177 att 118 comp @67% 10.4 y/a 18 tds 2 int
Manziel rushing vs top: 105 att 504yrds @4.8ypc 6tds
Manziel carries vs bottom: 79 att 677yrds @8.6 yoc 13 tds

Newtons top 7: SCar, SCar(SECCG), LSU, Bama, MSU, Arkie, Georgia
Newtons bottom 6: Mississippi, Kentucky, Clemson, LaMo, Chattanooga, Arkansas St

Cam vs top passing: 133 att 89 comp @ 67% 9.2 y/a 1219yrds 14 tds 2 int
Cam vs bot passing: 113 att 76 comp @ 67% 12.1y/a 1370yrds 14tds 4 int

Cam vs top rushing: 162 att 914 yrds @5.6 ypc 13tds
Cam vs bot rushing: 80 att 495 yrds @6.2 ypc 7 tds

the thing is, Cam showed up in big games big time, manziel hasnt. Not saying you need as good of a year as cam to be called a heisman contender. Just saying that acting like their resume is even remotely comparable outside of superficial stats is just flat out wrong imo

You forgot one more thing: Cam Newton's swagger was off the charts.

wicket
11-28-2012, 01:40 PM
You forgot one more thing: Cam Newton's swagger was off the charts.

tried to put that in to stats but i couldnt find the infinite button

niel89
11-28-2012, 09:35 PM
It's not that Manziel is above Tebow and Newtons years or even equal really. Manziel is just the best player in an obviously down year. I just don't see a better player this year despite Manziel's flaws. Just name me who is more deserving this year.

SolidGold
11-29-2012, 12:42 AM
I don't really think its a down year. Manziel is arguably better than Griffin who won last season. The last time there was a down year was in 2009 when Ingram won.

Wicket - nice comparison between Manziel and Newton +++ rep

SickwithIt1010
11-29-2012, 12:52 AM
If team success didn't matter I think Lee would be the obvious pick as most outstanding...seems how it does I give it to Manziel with Te'o a close 2nd.

Hollingsworth89
12-01-2012, 07:59 AM
If Johnny Manziel does not become the first freshman to win the award, they may as well chuck it. It's an overrated award for the most part anyway although they've gotten better since 2003.

(Herschel Walker should have won it, but I can at least spot them that that was in the days before email and the ballots were due in before Herschel dashed for over 200 yards in the season finale against Ga Tech).

FUNBUNCHER
12-01-2012, 08:32 AM
I don't really think its a down year. Manziel is arguably better than Griffin who won last season. The last time there was a down year was in 2009 when Ingram won.

Wicket - nice comparison between Manziel and Newton +++ rep

Manziel is a more productive runner than RG3 was last season for Baylor. Griffin by far was the superior passer which isn't unusual since it was Robert's 4th season starting and Manziel's first.

If they both had their Heisman seasons in the same year, IMO most voters would favor the RS junior RG3 over the RS freshman Johnny Manziel.

However in the 2012 season Manziel has separated himself.
Geno Smith fell off and Manziel's upset over undefeated Alabama laps Klein's loss to Baylor.

wicket
12-01-2012, 08:41 AM
If team success didn't matter I think Lee would be the obvious pick as most outstanding...seems how it does I give it to Manziel with Te'o a close 2nd.

agreed, if it was just most outstanding player it would be one of lee, warmack, clowney or elam to me

Halsey
12-01-2012, 08:50 AM
I'm just glad we have a preseason "Heisman Watch" list. I wouldn't have even known to watch Manziel and Te'o if not for that list!

FUNBUNCHER
12-01-2012, 08:51 AM
Clowney has been awesome but not Heisman worthy IMO even for a defensive player.
And Warmack is a good OT, but it's not like he's blocking two people at the same time.

If you're a WR in college and don't play specials, unless you put up record setting numbers as a wideout I don't see how you sniff the Heisman.

JRTPlaya21
12-01-2012, 08:52 AM
If Johnny Manziel does not become the first freshman to win the award, they may as well chuck it. It's an overrated award for the most part anyway although they've gotten better since 2003.

(Herschel Walker should have won it, but I can at least spot them that that was in the days before email and the ballots were due in before Herschel dashed for over 200 yards in the season finale against Ga Tech).

You sir are a very smart man.

Halsey
12-01-2012, 09:01 AM
The problem with a guy like Warmack is his value. How bad would it really hurt Alabama to lose Warmack? I'm guessing not nearly as much as pretty much any team losing its starting QB or top defensive player.

wicket
12-01-2012, 09:18 AM
The problem with a guy like Warmack is his value. How bad would it really hurt Alabama to lose Warmack? I'm guessing not nearly as much as pretty much any team losing its starting QB or top defensive player.

you could see with LSU what the difference was though. I think bama has way better depth along the OLine but when LSU lost one of two of their main olinemen their running game plummeted quickly

Brent
12-01-2012, 04:31 PM
it remains sumlins offense so those stats arent really serious and he screwed the pooch against UF and LSU
You must not have watched many A&M games. They were 13th in the nation in rushing, but please keep assuming they just throw the ball.

stl705
12-01-2012, 06:06 PM
I don't understand why people are down on Teo?? He's the heart and soul of the best team in the nation right now... let alone the team's best player.


Manti has 7 interceptions this year as a Linebacker!! This is 2nd in college football. The D1-A leader in interceptions is a Safety - Phillip Thomas for Fresno State with 8. The next closest linebacker is 19th overall with 4. Including Teo, there are only three linebackers in the top 50 for Interceptions.


Teo is the leader and best player of the best team in college football right now. The most points his defense has given up this year is 26 points in Triple Overtime. His defense has not allowed more than two touchdowns in ANY game this season.... yet has a top 10 Strength of Schedule according to most any college football fan outside a few states in the South.


I'm sorry, but Teo is every bit the Heisman hopeful that Suh was. Imo Suh should have won it back then, and Teo should win it this year. I think the difference is that Teo is a great ambassador to college football, whereas Suh is a complete douchebag. (i suspect a lot of this came after he got his check though)


Yes, Johnny Football is exciting to watch, but give me a break; one win gives this kid the Heisman? I'm not saying Teo is head and shoulders number 1 to win the award, but to say that he is at least not as deserving as anyone else in college football is simply asinine.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-02-2012, 11:53 AM
the thing is, Cam showed up in big games big time, manziel hasnt. Not saying you need as good of a year as cam to be called a heisman contender. Just saying that acting like their resume is even remotely comparable outside of superficial stats is just flat out wrong imo

orly?

http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20121110-20121110_jdm_sx1_023_28246917_904588.jpg.ece/BINARY/w620x413/20121110_jdm_sx1_023_28246917_904588.JPG

JRTPlaya21
12-02-2012, 12:06 PM
I'll just put it this way. Is A&M a 10 win team without Manziel and those extra 4,600 yards he has picked up this year in the toughest conference in all of college football? I for one don't think he is a better football player compared to Manti but I just don't see them being the same team without him. I think Notre Dame still probably beats mighty Michigan, Purdue & Pitt without Manti.

FUNBUNCHER
12-02-2012, 12:30 PM
What historically makes people think Teo is a legit Heisman candidate as a middle linebacker??

To me he's not close to being better than Kuechly was last year, the difference being ND has a better overall squad than BC had last season.
7 INTs is great, but that's not enough of a game changing impact for a Mike to have in order to win the Heisman.

You don't get the Heisman because you're a leader.
ND is undefeated because they have talent on both sides of the football and their Oline and Dline are SEC quality.

Teo is getting way too much credit for the success ND is having this season IMO.

There's absolutely nothing overwhelming about Teo's game when you watch ND play. To me that's go to be one of the defining characteristics of a Heisman winner; when you watch them on TV their talent and skillset more often than not leave you in awe.

That's the reason offensive players dominate this award.

FuzzyGopher
12-02-2012, 05:10 PM
I don't understand why people are down on Teo?? He's the heart and soul of the best team in the nation right now... let alone the team's best player.


Manti has 7 interceptions this year as a Linebacker!! This is 2nd in college football. The D1-A leader in interceptions is a Safety - Phillip Thomas for Fresno State with 8. The next closest linebacker is 19th overall with 4. Including Teo, there are only three linebackers in the top 50 for Interceptions.


Teo is the leader and best player of the best team in college football right now. The most points his defense has given up this year is 26 points in Triple Overtime. His defense has not allowed more than two touchdowns in ANY game this season.... yet has a top 10 Strength of Schedule according to most any college football fan outside a few states in the.

The Heisman, in theory, isn't an award for the best player on the best team. I don't think Te'o is the best defensive player in the country, let alone the best player.

soybean
12-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Welp guess the finalists are down to Manziel, Klein and Te'o. Manziel has this all but locked up I guess.

I wish Lee would've at least gotten an invite though.

Link (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8706848/heisman-trophy-johnny-manziel-collin-klein-manti-teo-named-finalists)

wicket
12-03-2012, 06:20 PM
You must not have watched many A&M games. They were 13th in the nation in rushing, but please keep assuming they just throw the ball.

and inflated offensive stats only happen in air raid offenses, nice try though

wicket
12-03-2012, 06:21 PM
I'll just put it this way. Is A&M a 10 win team without Manziel and those extra 4,600 yards he has picked up this year in the toughest conference in all of college football? I for one don't think he is a better football player compared to Manti but I just don't see them being the same team without him. I think Notre Dame still probably beats mighty Michigan, Purdue & Pitt without Manti.

notre dame wouldve lost to michigan, stanford and probably pitt if it wasnt for manti. admittedly you never know for sure but in all three of these games he was absolutely pivotal

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
12-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Two going is a joke. Lee got snubbed

jrdrylie
12-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Welp guess the finalists are down to Manziel, Klein and Te'o. Manziel has this all but locked up I guess.

I wish Lee would've at least gotten an invite though.

Link (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8706848/heisman-trophy-johnny-manziel-collin-klein-manti-teo-named-finalists)

Don't like the decision the Heisman voters made? Vote yourself!

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54762

SickwithIt1010
12-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Yeah, Lee not getting to at least go is dumb.

P-L
12-04-2012, 04:34 PM
I still think Stephon Tuitt is the best player on that Notre Dame defense, and they almost certainly lose to Stanford without him and probably to Michigan too (although Te'o was the best player in that game). Te'o has had an excellent season, but not an all-time great season.

FUNBUNCHER
12-08-2012, 02:27 AM
It really pisses me off that college football analysts are trying to convince themselves that Teo is a worthy Heisman finalist.

If the biggest argument in his favor has little to do with his performance ON THE FIELD, that player is not worthy of winning the award.

Notre Dame is undefeated because of HC Chip Kelly, not playing in the SEC and the maturation of all those 4 and 5 star recruits. It's not because Teo was so scary good.

He revitalized the program?? His leadership inspired his teammates??
GTFOH.

If a Mike wins the Heisman, he better be Kuechly/Patrick Willis x10.
THat ain't Teo.

If Manziel doesn't win the Heisman, it's going to tarnish the award more than it already is for years to come.

niel89
12-08-2012, 03:16 AM
I like Teo as a person, but seriously man. He is a great player, but not some once in a generation linebacker who single-handedly willed ND to every win. They could use his story as material for a movie maybe someday, but he frankly doesn't deserve the Heisman.

wicket
12-08-2012, 06:06 AM
It really pisses me off that college football analysts are trying to convince themselves that Teo is a worthy Heisman finalist.

If the biggest argument in his favor has little to do with his performance ON THE FIELD, that player is not worthy of winning the award.

Notre Dame is undefeated because of HC Chip Kelly, not playing in the SEC and the maturation of all those 4 and 5 star recruits. It's not because Teo was so scary good.

He revitalized the program?? His leadership inspired his teammates??
GTFOH.

If a Mike wins the Heisman, he better be Kuechly/Patrick Willis x10.
THat ain't Teo.

If Manziel doesn't win the Heisman, it's going to tarnish the award more than it already is for years to come.

what pisses me off is that people keep feeling the need to rip Teos season by looking at very specific things yet they are totally okay with Manziel winning it whilst he was a huge part of aTm losing both games they lost.

Again, im not saying Teo should win, he isnt the best player in the country but with what the heisman has become, hype, stepping up in the big games, team records and highlight plays teo has as good of a claim as anyone (given the flawed parameters) as anyone.

If it really was about the best player it'd be between Lee, Warmack, Elam, Clowney and probably Franklin but that just isnt how the heisman has worked in ages.

FUNBUNCHER
12-08-2012, 06:35 AM
Teo has no claim.

A Mike simply does not impact the game on a per play basis to be considered the most outstanding player in college football.
The Heisman is a stat award, sprinkled with highlight plays.
That's why defensive players are rarely considered Heisman candidates.

If the argument is Teo IS a Heisman candidate because ND is undefeated, he's being given way too much credit for the play of his Dline and the Irish's play on the offensive side of the football.

It's not about Teo not being the best defender in the country, he just didn't compile a Heisman worthy season.

The only reason this race is even close is because Manziel is a RS freshman.

If he were a junior with his stats he'd be the runaway winner.
The only reason Teo allegedly is in striking distance is because many voters IMO still believe a first year player shouldn't win the Heisman.

Alabama is about to beat ND by three TDs in the NC game.
Manziel gave the Tide their only loss.
End of discussion.

tjsunstein
12-08-2012, 11:41 AM
I still like Geno Smith's odds here. *shrug*