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View Full Version : Would you guys do this trade with the Falcons


Vickissick07
03-31-2007, 12:31 PM
Falcons receive #4 overall to take Joe Thomas (assuming CJ is gone is the only way I see this happening)

Tampa receives #8 overall to take Okoye, our 3rd (#75 overall) and our 2008 2nd rounder.

I think it works for all parties involved. How do you guys feel about it?

princefielder28
03-31-2007, 12:32 PM
I think it works good for both parties. Gruden does have interest in Okoye and if he could receive a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year and still get Okoye that would be beneficial to him.

Booger
03-31-2007, 01:12 PM
Falcons receive #4 overall to take Joe Thomas (assuming CJ is gone is the only way I see this happening)

Tampa receives #8 overall to take Okoye, our 3rd (#75 overall) and our 2008 2nd rounder.

I think it works for all parties involved. How do you guys feel about it?

I would be surprised if we would do that sort of trade with a division rival.

I would personally take Thomas before I traded him to the Falcons.

Merlin
03-31-2007, 01:45 PM
Falcons receive #4 overall to take Joe Thomas (assuming CJ is gone is the only way I see this happening)

Tampa receives #8 overall to take Okoye, our 3rd (#75 overall) and our 2008 2nd rounder.

I think it works for all parties involved. How do you guys feel about it?If Quinn wasn't their, I'd take the deal in a heartbeat.

etk
03-31-2007, 03:00 PM
It's a great trade for us, but I don't think the Falcons are looking to move up.

Booger
03-31-2007, 04:54 PM
I like the idea of trading down if CJ is gone, I just dont see it happening with the Falcons.

After watching more highlights and analysis, I am actually starting to like Landry and Carriker more than Okoye.

I wouldnt even mind a trade down with Buffalo at #12 if they are targeting AD, we could likely get Okoye or Carriker at that spot.

Caddy
03-31-2007, 05:17 PM
I'd do that for sure, but a divisional trade is very unlikely

Bucsfan
03-31-2007, 08:37 PM
I would do that in a heartbeat

etk
03-31-2007, 10:10 PM
I like the idea of trading down if CJ is gone, I just dont see it happening with the Falcons.

After watching more highlights and analysis, I am actually starting to like Landry and Carriker more than Okoye.

I wouldnt even mind a trade down with Buffalo at #12 if they are targeting AD, we could likely get Okoye or Carriker at that spot.

Those players you mentioned are the 4 that I would accept us drafting! :D

Bucsfan
03-31-2007, 11:01 PM
hypothetically, IF we did draft Carriker, which I see as unlikely, what position would he play DE or DT?

etk
03-31-2007, 11:16 PM
hypothetically, IF we did draft Carriker, which I see as unlikely, what position would he play DE or DT?

UT for sure

Booger
04-01-2007, 12:33 AM
UT for sure

Agreed, and he could likely start day 1. I am not sure that Okoye could.

Caddy
04-01-2007, 12:59 AM
Agreed, and he could likely start day 1. I am not sure that Okoye could.

I would start Carriker from Day 1, but I think Okoye would benefit from sitting for 6-8 weeks. His age is a huge positive thing for him, but it could also hinder him initially.

etk
04-01-2007, 09:57 AM
If Gruden didn't have a supposed "man-crush" on Okoye I'd say there's a 50-50 chance of us taking Carriker if we were looking for a UT.

YoJoeBucsFan
04-01-2007, 12:24 PM
The only way I do that trade is if the Falcons give use their 1 and both 2's.

-black
04-01-2007, 01:17 PM
I'd rather take Landry if we traded back.....

Vickissick07
04-01-2007, 03:40 PM
The only way I do that trade is if the Falcons give use their 1 and both 2's.

You are out of your mind. There is only a 400 point difference between the picks. Our 2 2nd rounders is worth roughly 900-1000 points. Lol @ you.

Caddy
04-01-2007, 04:18 PM
If Gruden didn't have a supposed "man-crush" on Okoye I'd say there's a 50-50 chance of us taking Carriker if we were looking for a UT.

Now there is news circulating about Grudens crush on Calvin Johnson so I'm not really sure what to believe anymore.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/16991786.htm

YoJoeBucsFan
04-01-2007, 05:37 PM
You are out of your mind. There is only a 400 point difference between the picks. Our 2 2nd rounders is worth roughly 900-1000 points. Lol @ you.
I am saying what it would take for me, given you are a division rival.

BunMagnet2
04-02-2007, 02:17 AM
I would also rather take Landry. I mean we obviously don't have a safety..hello have u guys not seen the defense the only highlight Will Allen has is breaking MaGahee's Leg..lolol...and Jermaine Phillihps does'nt have a highlight...so the trade would be nice if we made the right choice.

Caddy
04-02-2007, 04:23 AM
I would also rather take Landry. I mean we obviously don't have a safety..hello have u guys not seen the defense the only highlight Will Allen has is breaking MaGahee's Leg..lolol...and Jermaine Phillihps does'nt have a highlight...so the trade would be nice if we made the right choice.

Don't forget when Allen 'jacked up' Steve Smith.

etk
04-02-2007, 05:26 AM
Don't forget when Allen 'jacked up' Steve Smith.

Phillips has jacked up many receivers in his heyday.....

Caddy
04-02-2007, 07:06 AM
Phillips has jacked up many receivers in his heyday.....

And been 'jacked up'.. Kevin Jones comes to mind.. That "tackle" was not a pretty sight

-black
04-02-2007, 01:19 PM
They have def jacked up some recievers, but also cant cover for the life of them and miss easy tackles.....put them on special teams and get a starting caliber S

I'd rather have us replace Phillips the fastest tho...

Watchman
04-02-2007, 01:34 PM
They have def jacked up some recievers, but also cant cover for the life of them and miss easy tackles.....put them on special teams and get a starting caliber S

I'd rather have us replace Phillips the fastest tho...

I would be interested to see how much their play improves with a more effective pass rush. I'd rather see the team invest in the d-line, as they have been, then at the S position.

-black
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I would be interested to see how much their play improves with a more effective pass rush. I'd rather see the team invest in the d-line, as they have been, then at the S position.

IMO effective Pass rush means a heathly and determined Rice and a DE with 2a......and Landry with the 1st pick lol

thats ideal for me

etk
04-02-2007, 02:07 PM
I would be interested to see how much their play improves with a more effective pass rush. I'd rather see the team invest in the d-line, as they have been, then at the S position.

DLine is much more valuable to our defense. Ever notice how we only draft safeties on the 2nd day......

etk
04-02-2007, 02:07 PM
IMO effective Pass rush means a heathly and determined Rice and a DE with 2a......and Landry with the 1st pick lol

thats ideal for me

We will never draft a S with a top 15 pick. Never.

TRJ997
04-02-2007, 02:13 PM
Falcons receive #4 overall to take Joe Thomas (assuming CJ is gone is the only way I see this happening)

Tampa receives #8 overall to take Okoye, our 3rd (#75 overall) and our 2008 2nd rounder.

I think it works for all parties involved. How do you guys feel about it?

If CJ is gone, I would make the trade for a 2nd rounder this year and no picks next year.

Booger
04-02-2007, 02:23 PM
DLine is much more valuable to our defense. Ever notice how we only draft safeties on the 2nd day......

That is true, but it has left us with Phillips and Allen, two below average starters. The reason we have not needed a first day safety in a long time is because our QB pressure has always been there.

But if we improve our pass rush, we do not need a Landry type player. If we were to draft Landry, our pass rush would still be anemic, and our safties would suffer as a result.

I actually thought that Phillips played well down the stretch last year, and can be a quality starter as soon as he figures out that you cant Superman tackle everybody. I had high hopes for Allen, but after last season, I would be nervous to see him starting on opening day.

Both DL and S are huge needs, and I would like to see two DL and one S drafted on day 1. Weddle or Merriweather would be a great 2nd round pick-up.

Caddy
04-02-2007, 04:24 PM
That is true, but it has left us with Phillips and Allen, two below average starters. The reason we have not needed a first day safety in a long time is because our QB pressure has always been there.

But if we improve our pass rush, we do not need a Landry type player. If we were to draft Landry, our pass rush would still be anemic, and our safties would suffer as a result.

I actually thought that Phillips played well down the stretch last year, and can be a quality starter as soon as he figures out that you cant Superman tackle everybody. I had high hopes for Allen, but after last season, I would be nervous to see him starting on opening day.

Both DL and S are huge needs, and I would like to see two DL and one S drafted on day 1. Weddle or Merriweather would be a great 2nd round pick-up.

In principle the D-Line is definitely more important to the Cover 2 Defense and as long as we can upgrade both positions I will be more than happy.

-black
04-02-2007, 09:49 PM
We will never draft a S with a top 15 pick. Never.

and if we do....

Caddy
04-02-2007, 11:06 PM
and if we do....

Then that statement will no longer be plausible

-black
04-03-2007, 11:58 AM
Then that statement will no longer be plausible

to say a team will never draft a certain position in the top 15 is a very strong statement. Especially when under new direction for a head coach and GM. This is no longer Dungy's or McKay's team. I find it hilarious a fan on a message board will tell me what a franchise will never do

Three Step Drop
04-03-2007, 12:20 PM
I guess that most teams historically havent rated the S position that highly.

However reviewing the last few drafts that view might be changing Huff, Whitner and Sean Taylor were taken top 15. In previous drafts players such as Polamalu and Ed Reed were taken as mid to low 1sts.

Caddy
04-03-2007, 04:15 PM
to say a team will never draft a certain position in the top 15 is a very strong statement. Especially when under new direction for a head coach and GM. This is no longer Dungy's or McKay's team. I find it hilarious a fan on a message board will tell me what a franchise will never do

I agree with you -black. Whilst history can provide a good source of precedents, it does not really help you when talking about something which will occur in the future. What the past tells us is that it will be unlikely that we take a safety in the 1st round, however it is still entirely possible and too say it will never happen is just plain stupid.

etk
04-03-2007, 04:42 PM
to say a team will never draft a certain position in the top 15 is a very strong statement. Especially when under new direction for a head coach and GM. This is no longer Dungy's or McKay's team. I find it hilarious a fan on a message board will tell me what a franchise will never do

Well both of our starting safeties are 2nd day picks. Our backups are RFAs or undervalued guys brought over from other teams where they were cut. We are not a team that invests big money or draft picks on our safeties. Gruden especially doesn't think highly of the position, but in the past we took safeties early on, like John Lynch. Dexter Jackson was a Super Bowl MVP and we let him walk. Dwight Smith was solid and we let him walk. Lynch was cut. Gruden has been our coach since 2002, so how can you say we have new management? Allen is here to manage the cap, Gruden makes most personnel decisions. If it was still Dungy's team, we might draft a S in the 1st.

I find it hilarious that you want us to draft LaRon Landry ahead of other players that actually have value on our team. What I said was not a strong statement, because we won't be picking in the top 15 every year, and when we do we will be taking positions that are important to our coaches and management.

etk
04-03-2007, 04:44 PM
I agree with you -black. Whilst history can provide a good source of precedents, it does not really help you when talking about something which will occur in the future. What the past tells us is that it will be unlikely that we take a safety in the 1st round, however it is still entirely possible and too say it will never happen is just plain stupid.

Fine, but it's not stupid to say we won't take a safety in the top 15. Precedent and management decisions are a pretty good indicator of how we value the S position. It's stupid to think we will ever think about taking LaRon Landry with the 4th.

Caddy
04-03-2007, 04:46 PM
Fine, but it's not stupid to say we won't take a safety in the top 15. Precedent and management decisions are a pretty good indicator of how we value the S position. It's stupid to think we will ever think about taking LaRon Landry with the 4th.

The statement I made was just a clear cut, logical statement. Personally, I don't want the Bucs to draft Landry at 4, however I'm sure most would agree he could be an attractive option at 7,8,9,10 whatever. In that case it is highly possible we could take a safety in the top 15.

etk
04-03-2007, 05:33 PM
I'm sure most would agree he could be an attractive option at 7,8,9,10 whatever. In that case it is highly possible we could take a safety in the top 15.

I like Landry, a lot, but I recognize that we don't value safeties very much, and there is very little chance of us drafting one that early. I don't agree with Gruden and how he treats the position, there is a definite need for young talent, but smart money says that he's content with 2 mediocre safeties and little depth. Sad, but most likely true. My pipe dreams of getting Brandon Meriweather, and yours of Eric Weddle, and blacks of getting Landry, are unlikely to come to fruition. Sad, but most likely true.

-black
04-03-2007, 07:33 PM
Well both of our starting safeties are 2nd day picks. Our backups are RFAs or undervalued guys brought over from other teams where they were cut. We are not a team that invests big money or draft picks on our safeties. Gruden especially doesn't think highly of the position, but in the past we took safeties early on, like John Lynch. Dexter Jackson was a Super Bowl MVP and we let him walk. Dwight Smith was solid and we let him walk. Lynch was cut. Gruden has been our coach since 2002, so how can you say we have new management? Allen is here to manage the cap, Gruden makes most personnel decisions. If it was still Dungy's team, we might draft a S in the 1st.

I find it hilarious that you want us to draft LaRon Landry ahead of other players that actually have value on our team. What I said was not a strong statement, because we won't be picking in the top 15 every year, and when we do we will be taking positions that are important to our coaches and management.


why dont you tell me exactly how many 1st round picks have Gruden had with the Bucs....we have seen 2 picks, and how many 1st rounders have Allen made? so when judging history, it is fairly new to determine what they will and wont do. You say "we havent spent a high pick on a S" in the past, but when have we needed it? When Lynch was making a Pro Bowl every season and Jackson/Smith filled it perfectly...and our defensive line was one of the best in the league? I recall Gruden taking a S in the first round while in Oakland in Derrick Gibson. Say it was "Al Davis" all you want, but the fact is Landry is the best defensive player in the draft and the S position was horrible (for the first time in years) and we need replacements. Gruden may be stubborn but not to the fact where he will be an idiot and act as if adressing a need can wait till the 6th round. Saying we'd never take a S in the 1st round is ********. So if Sean Taylor would have dropped to us we would have passed on him? I mean come one, and YOU say i overstate things.

btw, Dungy is the one who did not take S's early. Lynch was a 3rd round pick. D. Jackson was a 4th round pick. Dwight Smith was a CB when he was drafted (3rd round btw)...so some were saying we would never take a CB or any DB high. Well Dungy is not here anymore, this is Grudens team and he doesnt have to follow the trend of Dungy or McKay.

I find it hilarious that you want us to draft LaRon Landry ahead of other players that actually have value on our team

you find it hilarious that I want the highest rated defensive player in the draft and future pro bowler on a unit that was torched and exposed all season? Wow, what another strong statement. I'd be more than happy with a defensive player like Okoye or Adams (as long as its defense), but if I had my pick I'd take Landry since he is an immediate impact and an "ALMOST" cant miss Pro Bowler in our system. If im "stupid" for wanting that then hand me a helmet and sign me up for Special Olympics.

etk
04-03-2007, 08:00 PM
Jeez Black, I'm speaking from a team's perspective. I know S is a big need for us, and I also agree that Landry is the best defensive player in the draft and a future Pro Bowler. I'm just not sure that Gruden/Kiffin really value the position much. Look at the history of us drafting safeties, signing safeties, and losing safeties. It seems like we are content with mediocrity, and we have that right now with Phillips and Allen. I don't know if our team thinks we need an upgrade, but I would bet that they think we don't. Once again, it's a sad truth. I hope I'm proven wrong, and I hope we add reasonable depth at the very least, instead of inserting camp-body outcasts from other teams.

-black
04-03-2007, 08:08 PM
what do you base this off of though? from Gruden making two draft picks in the 1st round since he has been here? Gruden tried to bring in Charles Woodson to play S and has drafted a S in the 1st round before. Of course DUNGY showed that he did not value the S position with a high draft pick but how do you figure Gruden and Allen will copy what Dungy's philosophies were. Quite frankly we dont know what or how Gruden feels or will apporach this draft. All I know is he has reached plenty of times before and goes after needs. Its the reason we took a G in the 1st who was valued in the mid 2nd, and a WR in the top 15 who was not valued that high either....

you say your speaking from a teams perspective, well you should know that this team and its philosophies are different then the teams we saw on the field pre-Gruden. You say look at the history of "us" drafting S's and I see look at the history of Gruden and look at how the S position is changing. Traditionally S's were not taken high regardless. This is a copy cat league, and after the success of the Ed Reed's and Sean Taylors, that too will change

etk
04-03-2007, 08:29 PM
I'll work backwards here:

Drafts

2006: No safeties drafted despite a need for depth and starting competition.
2005: Drafted Donte Nicholson in the 5th, good value pick. Drafted Hamza Abdullah, a camp body.
2004: Drafted Will Allen in the 4th. Another value pick to be groomed as a starter.
2003: No safeties drafted again.
2002: In Gruden's first year, we take Jermaine Phillips in the 5th. Pretty low to draft an eventual replacement for Lynch, but it worked out well.

Signings/History

2006: Did not sign any relevant safeties, despite having 2 young starters that needed competition and good depth. Kalvin Pearson was our only backup S that got any PT, despite inconsistency from both Allen & Phillips.
2005: No changes made to secondary. Entered the season with a rotation of 3 mediocre safeties.
2004: Brought back Dexter Jackson for cheap.
2003: Lynch & Smith were starters with no-name backups. Phillips was the only backup contributor.
2002: Nothing to report. We had 2 good starters then.

Losses

2006: Dexter Jackson
2005: Dwight Smith. He was our best safety and loaded with more potential, but we didn't sign him because of the cost. Drafted a 4th rounder instead. Hmm....
2004: Released John Lynch. Cap casualty for a player on the decline.
2003: Did not resign Dexter Jackson, a Super Bowl MVP.

Is that good enough to convince you that Gruden does not value the S position, or do you need more proof? We never drafted one on the 1st day, despite the need for talented youth every year. We cut/failed to sign all of our former starters, and replaced them with Day 2 picks. Our only signings were for cheap contracts, and sometimes minimum-salary.

-black
04-03-2007, 08:37 PM
no, because this is the first year that the position was bad. We thouht we had gems with Phillips and Allen (our defense did finish number 1 in the league last season). So NO we didnt draft a S when we seemingly were doing fine. But after being exposed, THIS draft will tell us how Gruden values the position, not past years when we were excelling. The way you are talking is kind of like saying Gruden also does not value the DT position, because even with the losses of the likes of Sapp (and trading Mcfarland) we have not drafted a young DT. Instead he went after throw aways and castoffs like Hovan and D. Russell...so no, your evidence does not add up, since its highly illogical. We thought we were set at the position with gems in the later rounds (heck I thought Phillips was going to be a star and Allen was a steal). Now after knowing that is not the case, we will see how Gruden reacts to having a huge need at the position (which he has NOT had in the past)

etk
04-03-2007, 08:46 PM
But after being exposed, THIS draft will tell us how Gruden values the position, not past years when we were excelling. We thought we were set at the position with gems in the later rounds (heck I thought Phillips was going to be a star and Allen was a steal). Now after knowing that is not the case, we will see how Gruden reacts to having a huge need at the position (which he has NOT had in the past)

If you limited your post to these 2 comments, I would agree 100%. Precedent does not tell us everything, but it is a good indicator. Things could change this year, but if they don't, it will be an obvious fact of how Gruden values the position.

Your post about the DT position is untrue. Hovan is a solid starter, and it was a good signing because we were cap-constricted. McFarland was traded because the value was tremendous, and Wyms was cutting away his minutes and outplaying him. We haven't drafted one lately because there wasn't a need for one. Hovan & McFarland was a solid combination, and Wyms provided good depth. We didn't sign a big-name DT because it's Bruce Allen's job to manage the cap, and he has done well.

-black
04-03-2007, 08:55 PM
I think hovan is a GREAT DT for us. But he was a castoff from Minnesota because many thought he was done....so yes he was a castoff, kind of like Rich Gannon for Gruden. We havent drafted a DT because we havent needed one....just like we thought we havent needed a day one S...

Caddy
04-03-2007, 08:57 PM
I don't really want to get involved in this debate, but I think both of you bring valid points to the argument. In saying that however, DT, specifically UT, is more important to this team than a safety and if you think Ellis Wyms is the answer there is a problem. If there is no value at DT I am all for taking a safety, however if I had to choose ultimately between Landry and Okoye, I would take Okoye. Both should be great players, but that is the luxury and burden you get with picking so high. You have an opportunity to draft the best talent the draft has to offer.

PS Weddle in the 2nd Round!!!! :) (What can I say? I'm a bit of a Weddle homer)

etk
04-03-2007, 09:00 PM
Who said Ellis Wyms was the answer? Even if he didn't have health problems....

We all have a pet safety that we want, can't wait to see if Gruden breaks the trend or settles for a Chinedum Ndukwe. Hehehe at least Merlin would be happy.

-black
04-03-2007, 09:02 PM
article that reinforces that Hovan was indeed seen as a cast-off when he left Minnesota

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/04/Bucs/Hovan_flashing_his_ol.shtml


LAKE BUENA VISTA - The long, caveman locks are gone. The menacing black face paint that caused some to question his sanity has met the same fate.

Other than his numerous tattoos, Chris Hovan practically looks ready for the corner office.

But Tampa Bay hopes what remains of Hovan is the unstoppable, physical force they saw years ago. In Hovan, the Bucs see a player who has the potential to return to the form that once made him a second-team All-Pro and a first-round draft pick. In the Bucs, Hovan sees a team with a defense that can live up to its reputation as one of the fiercest in football.

Together, they see the opportunity for great things.

"I came to Tampa because these guys know how to play defense and I want to be a part of that," said Hovan, 27, who joined the Bucs as an unrestricted free agent this summer. He landed with the Bucs after falling out of favor in Minnesota, where he once was considered a cornerstone of the Vikings' defense.
"These guys are already established," Hovan added. "They have Derrick Brooks, Anthony McFarland, Shelton Quarles, Greg Spires. I just want to come here and be a part of this mix."

The feeling mutual.

"I knew what he was out of Boston College," said defensive line coach Rod Marinelli, who became enamored with Hovan while scouting him. "I evaluated the heck out of him. I thought he really fit what we do. When you study those guys like that, they may go someplace else, but you tend to keep your eye on them. Those are the guys you want up front."

But the Bucs promised Hovan nothing, giving him a one-year deal worth $540,000. All he has is the chance to compete for the starting job created by the departure of nose tackle Chartric Darby, though that is hardly a guarantee.
It is a humbling position for a player who entered the league as a coveted prospect in 2000 and had immediate success. But with his new look has come a new attitude. Hovan is willing to do anything to resurrect his career.

He was deactivated for both of the Vikings' playoff games last season, and as the season ended, it became clear his days in Minnesota were over. Hovan prefers not to delve into the specifics, but it's safe to assume coach Mike Tice was trying to motivate Hovan when he benched him in favor of rookie free agent Spencer Johnson.

Knowing he must produce to change the perception that resulted from his unceremonious exit from Minnesota, Hovan has performed during the first week of training camp like his career is on the line. Coaches and players are buzzing about his "motor" and how it never stops.

"I have a lot to prove," he said. "I think that's true with everybody. But I'm my worst critic. I really am. I'm demanding a lot out of myself."

Take it from center John Wade, who draws the unenviable task of battling with Hovan's 296 pounds during drills.

"His effort is relentless," said an exhausted Wade after a practice that included one-on-one work with Hovan. "Since the day he walked in here, he's been ready to work. In my opinion, he's got all the tools, the attitude and the effort. How can he not help us?"

And, oh, how the Bucs welcome the help. They yielded 123.3 rushing yards a game last season, the most since 1993 when they went 5-11 under coach Sam Wyche.

But the new-and-improved Chris Hovan plans to do his part to change that. His transformation began with the new look, as he decided during the summer to chop off his long hair in favor of the closely-cropped 'do he now sports. He also said he won't wear the black face paint, which was a tribute to former Vikings great John Randle, who was famous for playing with black paint around his eyes.

Hovan didn't intend for the outward changes to be symbolic at a time he is hoping for the rebirth of his career, but it is hard to deny the irony.

"I just decided to clean it up a little," he said. "There were a lot of people who liked me and a lot of people who don't, so I thought I'd just come out and represent myself by what I do on the field."

That alone will determine where Hovan's career goes from here. But his attitude suggests things will only get better.

"I'm really eager to come to work every day with a guy who has that viewpoint," Bucs coach Jon Gruden said, "a guy that has something to prove and wants to take his game to another level

etk
04-03-2007, 09:04 PM
No one ever questioned how Hovan fell out of favour and was a Minny castoff.

-black
04-03-2007, 09:04 PM
I don't really want to get involved in this debate, but I think both of you bring valid points to the argument. In saying that however, DT, specifically UT, is more important to this team than a safety and if you think Ellis Wyms is the answer there is a problem. If there is no value at DT I am all for taking a safety, however if I had to choose ultimately between Landry and Okoye, I would take Okoye. Both should be great players, but that is the luxury and burden you get with picking so high. You have an opportunity to draft the best talent the draft has to offer.

PS Weddle in the 2nd Round!!!! :) (What can I say? I'm a bit of a Weddle homer)



I agree 100% that UT is more vital to this defense than a S. I never once questioned that. Im just saying If i had my pick of players i'd grab the best defensive player in the draft and thats just my opinion. I'd have NO problem with Adams or Okoye. But to say we're dumb to get Landry or we dont need him or something like that is what gets me aggitated. I may be alittle bias, but i'd rather have Merriweather in the 2nd depending on what we did with the 1st pick. I wouldnt mind Weddle though, but im almost dying to see us draft Kalil at the top of the 2nd, since he is IMO the best Offensive Lineman in the draft

etk
04-03-2007, 09:05 PM
But to say we're dumb to get Landry or we dont need him or something like that is what gets me aggitated

I don't remember why I said that, or what I was thinking, but I didn't mean it. I do that sometimes, lol! Sorry black!

-black
04-03-2007, 09:07 PM
No one ever questioned how Hovan fell out of favour and was a Minny castoff.

I assumed you meant that because you said

Your post about the DT position is untrue

Caddy
04-03-2007, 09:10 PM
Who said Ellis Wyms was the answer? Even if he didn't have health problems....

We all have a pet safety that we want, can't wait to see if Gruden breaks the trend or settles for a Chinedum Ndukwe. Hehehe at least Merlin would be happy.

I said 'if you think' etk. I didn't specify anybody because the fact of the matter is everyone knows he isn't the answer. I was just trying to reinforce the idea that we need a dominant UT.

-black
04-03-2007, 09:12 PM
I love my fellow Bucs fans :)

its ok for us to dispute and have differences of opinion about our team...it just shows passion for what we love. I GURENTEE that come draft day in the war room and in team meeting, the Buc personel are doing this and ALOT more bickering when trying to decide what to do. Except im sure a few more four letter words are mentioned.

etk
04-03-2007, 09:18 PM
I love my fellow Bucs fans :)

its ok for us to dispute and have differences of opinion about our team...it just shows passion for what we love. I GURENTEE that come draft day in the war room and in team meeting, the Buc personel are doing this and ALOT more bickering when trying to decide what to do. Except im sure a few more four letter words are mentioned.

Well actually the Bucs war room is quite obscene. Jon Gruden is an egomaniac, and it has been rumoured that he completely ignores his scouts and just shuts them down harshly. Things like that piss me off, because we have been very poor at drafting with our late picks, and I wish he gave more respect and credibility to our scouts.

Sorry 24, I thought you were speaking directly to black & I because you addressed us when you said "I'm not getting involved in this argument".

-black
04-03-2007, 09:20 PM
Well actually the Bucs war room is quite obscene. Jon Gruden is an egomaniac, and it has been rumoured that he completely ignores his scouts and just shuts them down harshly. Things like that piss me off, because we have been very poor at drafting with our late picks, and I wish he gave more respect and credibility to our scouts.

Sorry 24, I thought you were speaking directly to black & I because you addressed us when you said "I'm not getting involved in this argument".

scouts can still talk under their breaths lol

Caddy
04-03-2007, 11:25 PM
No problem etk. I am glad that we are all so vocal, that way numerous opinions can be given and we can see different sides to the proverbial coin. I can't wait till draft day.

Booger
04-04-2007, 09:37 AM
Is that good enough to convince you that Gruden does not value the S position, or do you need more proof? We never drafted one on the 1st day, despite the need for talented youth every year. We cut/failed to sign all of our former starters, and replaced them with Day 2 picks. Our only signings were for cheap contracts, and sometimes minimum-salary.

I think that you are giving too much credit to Gruden, as I believe that Kiffin has the ultimate say on defensive players.

etk
04-04-2007, 05:49 PM
I think that you are giving too much credit to Gruden, as I believe that Kiffin has the ultimate say on defensive players.

I agree with that statement, it seems like Kiffin has the majority of the say, because our defensive personnel decisions have been pretty consistent, despite coaching and GM changes. It's just easier to say Gruden instead of Gruden/Allen/Kiffin. Gruden does have the last say in all decisions I assume, but Kiffin probably tells him exactly who he wants and who fits.