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View Full Version : Landry Jones vs. E.J. Manuel


Scott Wright
09-06-2012, 07:02 PM
I am working on the initial rankings for the re-launch and was struggling with whether to put Landry Jones of Oklahoma or E.J. Manuel of Florida St. as the #3 senior quarterback.

I'll let my ultimate decision be a surprise on September 14th but I'd be interested to see what the board thinks. Are you Team Landry or Team E.J.?

D-Unit
09-06-2012, 07:19 PM
Team Neither. If I really was forced to pick between the 2, I'd say Landry just to stay more conventional. But I really don't like either QB in the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
09-06-2012, 08:22 PM
I'll take Manuel between the two. More potential, even if I don't think he does anything in the league.

CashmoneyDrew
09-06-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm not touching either one.

But this is interesting. This means you have one of Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith rated below both of them which I would disagree with.

Scott Wright
09-06-2012, 08:35 PM
This means you have one of Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith rated below both...

This is correct... :o)

princefielder28
09-06-2012, 08:37 PM
I would side with Manuel and then know that I'll be receiving my pink slip in the not so distant future.

farfromforgotten
09-06-2012, 09:10 PM
I'm not touching either one.

But this is interesting. This means you have one of Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith rated below both of them which I would disagree with.

I'm guessing he has Wilson rated below both of them. I'd go with Landry over Manuel, but I'd also go with Wilson and/or Smith over both of them.

D-Unit
09-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Seriously... is Colt Brennan an option? :D

JHL6719
09-06-2012, 09:23 PM
Neither one is the 3rd best Senior QB prospect. Although if I had to choose between those two duds it would be Landry Jones.

brat316
09-06-2012, 09:25 PM
E.J. this is where the future of the NFL is going...again. The mobile QB, not scrambling, just mobile.

SolidGold
09-06-2012, 09:51 PM
E.J. this is where the future of the NFL is going...again. The mobile QB, not scrambling, just mobile.

Meh...the whole mobility thing gets played up way too much. Pocket presence and the ability to move within the pocket will always be the more desired traits in the NFL. It's the media types that want to hype up QB 40 times - it gives everyone something to talk about during the off-season. I don't think the league can really do much else to change the rules to favor the passing game.

I would pick Jones over Manuel since Jones actually has a complete body of work to judge from.

Hurricanes25
09-06-2012, 10:51 PM
Not a fan of either but I would take Manuel between the 2. Both have very low floors but I feel that Manuel has a higher ceiling.

BeerBaron
09-06-2012, 11:16 PM
I would side with Manuel and then know that I'll be receiving my pink slip in the not so distant future.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. This is a real no win situation if those are your only options.

Brent
09-06-2012, 11:23 PM
http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/randmid_1254508137_landryjones.JPG

He has a mustache.

/debate

FUNBUNCHER
09-06-2012, 11:44 PM
Meh...the whole mobility thing gets played up way too much. Pocket presence and the ability to move within the pocket will always be the more desired traits in the NFL. It's the media types that want to hype up QB 40 times - it gives everyone something to talk about during the off-season. I don't think the league can really do much else to change the rules to favor the passing game.

I would pick Jones over Manuel since Jones actually has a complete body of work to judge from.

A mobile QB may not have the pocket presence of Tom Brady but he has the bonus of being able to escape a pass rush with a scramble to the sideline and still complete a pass on the run. Landry isn't mobile and his pocket presence is nil.

That said I still think he'll be a more effective pro that Manuel. Just haven't seen EJ look dominant enough at the college level to believe he'll be a difference maker as a pro.

Tyler Wilson/Geno Smith x10.

SolidGold
09-07-2012, 06:27 AM
A mobile QB may not have the pocket presence of Tom Brady but he has the bonus of being able to escape a pass rush with a scramble to the sideline and still complete a pass on the run. Landry isn't mobile and his pocket presence is nil.

That said I still think he'll be a more effective pro that Manuel. Just haven't seen EJ look dominant enough at the college level to believe he'll be a difference maker as a pro.

Tyler Wilson/Geno Smith x10.

Being "mobile" also leads you to being exposed to more hits. NFL offenses are more or less geared to delivering the ball to your play makers in space. There are so many more important traits than mobility when it comes to being a QB: intelligence, arm accuracy, arm strength, pocket awareness, ability to move within the pocket while keeping your eyes down field and then I would put mobility in their. All QBs have at the very least functional mobility anyway. It is a nice trait to have but not one completely necessary and like I said people get boner's about QB 40 times which are more useful in video games than real games.

I would take Andrew Luck as the prime example - the thing that really sticks out with him is how he moves around in the pocket - stands tall and delivers the ball downfield - not his 4.6 40 time which is nice for sure but not vital.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-07-2012, 07:33 AM
Not a big fan of either, but I'd definitely take EJ in this one. If EJ becomes more consistent, he's going to rise big time.

jrdrylie
09-07-2012, 08:06 AM
These guys are both interesting. They both have the tools to be very good QBs but for one reason or another, they just haven't quite put it all together. With Manuel, he needs to be more consistent. With Jones, he just seems to lack that "it" factor.

But to answer the question, I'd go with Jones. I like him more than most. I think he is more accurate than Manuel and can read defenses a bit better. I would definitely take Jones with a top-15 pick but I think Manuel is better served to be picked later in the first by a team that can sit him for a few years.

SolidGold
09-07-2012, 11:03 AM
How high is Sean Renfree going to be on your board?

RaiderNation
09-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Not a big fan on Landry anymore, but I'd still rank him above Manuel for now.

fenikz
09-07-2012, 05:15 PM
1. Barkley
2. Wilson
3. Smith
4. Jones
5. Manuel

Raiderz4Life
09-07-2012, 11:34 PM
I dislike em both as well but I guess I would take Jones. I just think if either one of them will do anything it'll be him.

Flyboy
09-08-2012, 09:22 AM
If I HAD to choose, I'd take Manuel but that's not really saying much.

rawdawg
09-08-2012, 10:02 AM
At least Jones had that 1 good year. Agree with fenikz list. I'd like to see the argument for either Jones or Manuel over Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-08-2012, 10:35 PM
No thanks to both

vidae
09-08-2012, 11:57 PM
I'm not a fan of Landry Jones at all. Not at all. I'd take Manuel 10 times out of 10.

bored of education
09-09-2012, 06:14 PM
I will go neither, please. Is that an option Scott?

MassNole
09-10-2012, 11:35 AM
Manuel is bigger, stronger, faster, and has played in a system NFL teams love. This isn't even a debate.

sbh15
09-10-2012, 12:33 PM
Manuel is bigger, stronger, faster, and has played in a system NFL teams love. This isn't even a debate.

and has proven ... absolutely nothing. EJ still riding the hype train

BuddyCHRIST
09-10-2012, 01:34 PM
EJ is by no means an NFL QB at this stage, he is just not a good passer.

He can throw the ball, but possess no timing ability and is woefully inaccurate. He and Tebow are the biggest reasons why you can't trust completion %. FSU rarely lets him throw in the middle of the field, most if his throws are corner routes or bubble screens. And he routinely throws it behind and at guys feet. The number of huge plays that we could have if he would hit guys in stride that end up being nothing really frustrate me. He lofts every ball, even against terrible teams he tries to guide the ball in. He would get pick 6'ed so much in the NFL with that crap. His pocket awareness is pretty poor too, he tries to spin out of the rush all the time, usually just losing more yardage.

That said, he's an above average college QB because he's big and athletic, and is a leader. He can look average all game and then lead a game winning drive, extending plays with his athleticism and ability to shake tacklers. But his flaws are definitely covered up in our offense with alot of short throws to an insanely deep WR corps.

And even still I have other opinions about him, as FSU's o-line has been poor during his career, and maybe Jimbo puts too much pressure on him with the types of throws he can make. He could be a great passer if he would just be let loose, but I tend to doubt it. Thats why sometimes I wish we would just go 5 Wide and let him sling the ball around.

MassNole
09-10-2012, 01:38 PM
and has proven ... absolutely nothing. EJ still riding the hype train

3-0 in bowl games proves nothing I guess. Leading a team from 14-0 in a bowl game with a broken fibula proves nothing either.

kwilk103
09-10-2012, 11:36 PM
homer pick, but neither and go with geno smith over both

bored of education
09-11-2012, 06:50 PM
One thing I noticed with EJ is while he throws he generates no torque from his core and the ball comes out with no snap/zip. It kinda pisses me off a lot.

MassNole
09-11-2012, 07:42 PM
One thing I noticed with EJ is while he throws he generates no torque from his core and the ball comes out with no snap/zip. It kinda pisses me off a lot.

This was worked on extensively with a private QB coach in the offseason.

bored of education
09-11-2012, 07:44 PM
I hope I see it soon, has not seen much of it this season

MassNole
09-11-2012, 07:50 PM
I hope I see it soon, has not seen much of it this season

TD pass to Greg Dent had some zip on it.

He has improved dramatically in taking care of the ball.

SolidGold
09-12-2012, 07:54 AM
I am eager to see both Jones and Manuel go up against quality competition instead of the early season cupcakes. I am hoping Wake pulls an upset of FSU once again this weekend!!!

BuddyCHRIST
09-12-2012, 08:24 AM
TD pass to Greg Dent had some zip on it.

He has improved dramatically in taking care of the ball.

No need to be a homer, he hasn't proved that he's improved anything this year. We've played horrible teams and he's played about 3 quarters.

He has the arm strength, but tries to hard to loft balls in spaces instead of just firing them. He made atleast 2 throws against Murray St that should have been picked off. Unfortunately EJ is what he is at this point. Luckily he's a good all around athlete and leader.

Poz51
09-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Not sure myself how either is better than Wilson or Smith, much less Ryan Nassib, who I would also put over Manual and Jones myself. I dont think either has the mental capabilities right now to be in the top three, but if I have to put one over the other right now its Jones who I think is more accurate and has better "arm talent". Would love to have seen Manual play a real team this year, to see if his off-season work has paid off, because I could easily be swayed his way on this. Tough call when differentiating the two right now.

Cigaro
09-13-2012, 11:48 AM
Private QB coach? Is that allowed in NCAA?

Anyways, I honestly wouldn't take either one. Neither have shown me that they would be anything more than a somewhat competent college quarterback.

MassNole
09-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Private QB coach? Is that allowed in NCAA?

Anyways, I honestly wouldn't take either one. Neither have shown me that they would be anything more than a somewhat competent college quarterback.

It was done pretty publicly, so I can't imagine there is a rule against it. Since the Maryland game in 2011 Manuel hasn't thrown an INT that was his fault and has taken care of the football. Against a good Notre Dame defense he tore them apart in the second half of the bowl game. Like Ponder before him he will be a first round pick.

TuckNole
09-13-2012, 08:03 PM
Most QB's who want to be in the NFL go to these guys in the offseason.

JRTPlaya21
09-14-2012, 12:49 PM
E.J. Manuel in the first round? Righttttttttttttttt

Miaoww
09-15-2012, 08:51 PM
Being "mobile" also leads you to being exposed to more hits. NFL offenses are more or less geared to delivering the ball to your play makers in space. There are so many more important traits than mobility when it comes to being a QB: intelligence, arm accuracy, arm strength, pocket awareness, ability to move within the pocket while keeping your eyes down field and then I would put mobility in their. All QBs have at the very least functional mobility anyway. It is a nice trait to have but not one completely necessary and like I said people get boner's about QB 40 times which are more useful in video games than real games.

I would take Andrew Luck as the prime example - the thing that really sticks out with him is how he moves around in the pocket - stands tall and delivers the ball downfield - not his 4.6 40 time which is nice for sure but not vital.

Funnily enough I don't think Luck runs enough. I caught his game last week - time and again he could have taken off for a 5/6/7 yard gain when nothing was on. Instead he tried to throw into tight coverage.

As for the actual thread - Landry, but honestly I wouldn't want either.

SolidGold
09-21-2012, 07:29 AM
Big matchups this week for both of these players. Great head to head QB matchups - Manuel vs Boyd and Jones vs Klein.

I am hoping Klein has a big game - He has potential to shoot up draft boards much like Griffin and Newton have done the past two seasons. He has refined his mechanics and improved in the passing game - if he can put together a strong season passing the ball I think he will jump from a late round pick to a 2nd-3rd rounder and get a bump in the Heisman race.

bucfan12
09-21-2012, 09:11 AM
The more film I watch on geno smith the more I want to bump him up to the top qb prospect in 2013.

Witten4HOF
09-21-2012, 09:52 AM
Big matchups this week for both of these players. Great head to head QB matchups - Manuel vs Boyd and Jones vs Klein.

I am hoping Klein has a big game - He has potential to shoot up draft boards much like Griffin and Newton have done the past two seasons. He has refined his mechanics and improved in the passing game - if he can put together a strong season passing the ball I think he will jump from a late round pick to a 2nd-3rd rounder and get a bump in the Heisman race.

I agree, I mentioned that in the offseason and it basically got laughed off but he has some serious potential if he is developed correctly.

SolidGold
09-21-2012, 10:20 AM
I agree, I mentioned that in the offseason and it basically got laughed off but he has some serious potential if he is developed correctly.

I do not know why he is not being talked about more to be honest. He is a really underrated prospect. He is a big strong athletic QB - granted he is raw and learning the nuances of the passing game but if he makes a really noticeable jump teams will have to take notice. He dedicated his offseason to improving his mechanics. KSU does not throw the ball much but I think some team is going to see a kid who has a good head on his shoulders, athletic and is a well respected team leader. He is also like 6'5 230 and will prob run in the 4.6 range.

Witten4HOF
09-21-2012, 11:02 AM
I do not know why he is not being talked about more to be honest. He is a really underrated prospect. He is a big strong athletic QB - granted he is raw and learning the nuances of the passing game but if he makes a really noticeable jump teams will have to take notice. He dedicated his offseason to improving his mechanics. KSU does not throw the ball much but I think some team is going to see a kid who has a good head on his shoulders, athletic and is a well respected team leader. He is also like 6'5 230 and will prob run in the 4.6 range.

Knock will always be that he is more apt to tuck and run after his initial reads rather then letting his routes develop down field. Also the read option K-State runs isn't heavy on getting the recievers vertical, so he doesn't get the chance to wing the ball down the field like RGIII and Cam did.

I think he is a much better prospect the Tebow for sure and actually has a chance to be a decent starter down the road.

Docta
09-22-2012, 09:52 PM
Manuel's breakout game?

FUNBUNCHER
09-22-2012, 10:00 PM
It's still hard to tell how good a passer Manuel is, he rarely challenges a defense and it seems a large percentage of his throws are to stationary targets.


On crossing routes, seam throws or deep outs, from what I've seen Manuel just isn't willing to take those chances.
Just looks like a guy IMO who's playing not to lose, which may have more to do with the talent on FSU and the opponent they were facing tonight.

SickwithIt1010
09-22-2012, 11:03 PM
Idk, I still dont like Manuel as a passer. His release is VERY robotic.

bored of education
09-23-2012, 08:52 AM
I dont like either at all.

Babylon
09-23-2012, 11:04 AM
I'd have to say last night was the most impressed i've been with Manuel. I thought he hung in there and didn't lose any composure when the team was struggling a little.

TACKLE
09-23-2012, 03:45 PM
I really like everything about EJ Manuel except for his ability to pass the ball.

bucfan12
09-23-2012, 04:07 PM
I'd have to say last night was the most impressed i've been with Manuel. I thought he hung in there and didn't lose any composure when the team was struggling a little.

I'm reserving my judgement here. He played a Clemson team that really isn't good. He didn't do what mr Geno Smith did to them and that was absolutely TORCH THEM constantly through the air.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-24-2012, 08:18 AM
When will everyone admit Landry Jones sucks?

Shane P. Hallam
09-24-2012, 11:15 AM
When will everyone admit Landry Jones sucks?

Pretty sure this is the time. Still has the physical tools to end up in the top 100, but sinking fast. Hopefully he doesn't end up getting the Jerrod Johnson treatment.

Halsey
09-24-2012, 11:54 AM
I have no idea if either will be good in the NFL, but I find it funny that people are so quick to write them off. Just like people did with so many other talented QBs in recent years who are doing well in recent years.

TuckNole
09-24-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm reserving my judgement here. He played a Clemson team that really isn't good. He didn't do what mr Geno Smith did to them and that was absolutely TORCH THEM constantly through the air.

How many of Geno's passing yards were on the shuffle pass (really a jet sweep)?

kwilk103
09-24-2012, 12:53 PM
How many of Geno's passing yards were on the shuffle pass (really a jet sweep)?

we run it like 3-4x a game

hes avg like 30 completions a game

TuckNole
09-25-2012, 12:00 PM
we run it like 3-4x a game

hes avg like 30 completions a game

Against Clemson? I honestly don't remember, but I vaguely recall a bunch of it coming on the jet sweep passes.

comahan
09-25-2012, 12:45 PM
When in doubt, always choose the guy who ISNT Landry Jones.

kwilk103
09-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Against Clemson? I honestly don't remember, but I vaguely recall a bunch of it coming on the jet sweep passes.

clemson i think 5x; they just had no idea how to stop it

we run it on avg 3-4x a game

SolidGold
09-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Maybe the real conversation here should be how terrible the Clemson defense is.

Scott Wright
09-25-2012, 06:31 PM
We're going to be talking about Manuel on the podcast tonight, be sure to tune in!

DanDanE420
10-03-2012, 09:08 PM
Landry Jones is Matt Cassell.

SolidGold
10-06-2012, 10:17 PM
EJ Manuel is not good - very inconsistent. Jones at least shows some consistency. Manuel looks like he floats the ball too.

DcmRulz
10-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Too raw for my blood.

bored of education
10-06-2012, 10:54 PM
I stick with my original answer, neither.

SolidGold
10-21-2012, 10:22 AM
Jones may have finally got into a groove. He has looked a lot better and consistent since the Kansas St loss.

Halsey
10-21-2012, 10:34 AM
Yeah, I noticed that Jones has been putting up pretty box scores this year. I'd be interested to hear from Scott about how he's playing. Could he potentially re-enter the #1 overall pick discussion?

SolidGold
10-21-2012, 10:53 AM
I don't think Jones is going to warrant an early first round pick - he is a later 1st/2nd round guy. Early in the season after the KSU game people went into full bash mode on him though when he really isn't that terrible of a prospect.

BuddyCHRIST
10-22-2012, 03:36 PM
Someone who commented on Manuel throwing to stationary targets is spot on, he just doesn't have the rhythm passing ability or accuracy to really hit a guy in stride. He just floats everything forcing guys to stop their route.

In the Miami game he left numerous WRs out to dry, and narrowly missed a wide open Chris Thompson on a short pass (where he eventually got hurt on). He had one throw in the game where he fired it in the middle, and I said to myself "Thats the first time he's thrown a ball like that."

He's got a ton of talent, but is just so frustrating sometimes. I'm beginning to think it might be more Jimbo's coaching style as he definitely micro manages the QB position.

MassNole
10-22-2012, 04:22 PM
Someone who commented on Manuel throwing to stationary targets is spot on, he just doesn't have the rhythm passing ability or accuracy to really hit a guy in stride. He just floats everything forcing guys to stop their route.

In the Miami game he left numerous WRs out to dry, and narrowly missed a wide open Chris Thompson on a short pass (where he eventually got hurt on). He had one throw in the game where he fired it in the middle, and I said to myself "Thats the first time he's thrown a ball like that."

He's got a ton of talent, but is just so frustrating sometimes. I'm beginning to think it might be more Jimbo's coaching style as he definitely micro manages the QB position.

He puts that pass on a rope and Thompson is gone for a TD and doesn't get hurt.

SolidGold
11-11-2012, 12:34 PM
Jones is flying really under the radar. He has put together a pretty good season. He is worth a late first round/early second round pick. If Bradford was able to go number 1 overall Jones deserves first round consideration. I actually like him more than Bradford coming out.