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View Full Version : What Is Up With Matt Barkley?


kwilk103
09-24-2012, 02:40 PM
not playing up to the hype

his numbers are way down from last year
2011 vs 2012

69% to 61%
7.91 ypa to 7.03 ypa
7 int to 5 int
8 sacks to 6 sacks
161.2 rating to 141.3

was holmes (whose been injured) and kalil that big of a loss? actually his numbers so far compare very favorably to his sophomore year:

62%
7.40 ypa
12 int
16 sacks
141.2 rating

is it possible his junior year was an aberration and this is the "real" barkley?

Babylon
09-24-2012, 03:10 PM
In a nutshell Holmes and Kalil are that big of a loss. Their backup center probably cost them the Stanford game.

PossibleCabbage
09-24-2012, 03:32 PM
In a nutshell Holmes and Kalil are that big of a loss. Their backup center probably cost them the Stanford game.

More to the point, Barkley very much seems like a player who needs to be surrounded by talent in order to succeed, rather than a guy who will singlehandedly carry a program from time to time. Most of what he does is the simple, high percentage stuff that looks so good because of the people around him.

descendency
09-24-2012, 04:23 PM
Let's also not forget Tyron Smith. I don't really know USC's OL situation, but losing 3 elite OL (one due to injury) in 2 years is pretty insane.

SickwithIt1010
09-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Holmes has been a huge loss for him. They have not been able to go to their vertical and deep passing game because they just cant keep the pressure off of him, which is leading him to throwing a ton of hitches, quick hitting screens...and when they arent getting any YAC it makes his numbers look bad. The stanford game he was pressured everytime he dropped back, it was bad.

Once Holmes gets back up to full strength you will see improvement from him. Being able to drop back confidently you arent going to be on your back on the 2nd step of your drop is always very nice.

murdamal86
09-27-2012, 11:33 AM
not playing up to the hype

his numbers are way down from last year
2011 vs 2012

69% to 61%
7.91 ypa to 7.03 ypa
7 int to 5 int
8 sacks to 6 sacks
161.2 rating to 141.3

was holmes (whose been injured) and kalil that big of a loss? actually his numbers so far compare very favorably to his sophomore year:

62%
7.40 ypa
12 int
16 sacks
141.2 rating

is it possible his junior year was an aberration and this is the "real" barkley?

Probably so. He was a turnover machine his senior year in HS too :shrugs:

killxswitch
09-27-2012, 11:53 AM
He is Curtis Paintering himself. Should've declared last year.

MI_Buckeye
09-27-2012, 02:52 PM
I think the real question now is just how far will he slide? I know it's still very early, and late season performances tend to outweigh early season performances, but I just never bought into to Barkley as a premier prospect.

If you really break down Barkley's career at USC, he's had one tremendous half-season with a great supporting cast and has otherwise been solid but unspectacular. Good character, good work ethic, but he has average physical tools and nowhere near the accuracy, anticipation and acumen to push him over the top.

At this point, I would say he is solidly behind Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel with the potential to lose ground to guys like Landry Jones and Tyler Bray. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a second rounder here.

kwilk103
09-27-2012, 07:26 PM
I think the real question now is just how far will he slide? I know it's still very early, and late season performances tend to outweigh early season performances, but I just never bought into to Barkley as a premier prospect.

If you really break down Barkley's career at USC, he's had one tremendous half-season with a great supporting cast and has otherwise been solid but unspectacular. Good character, good work ethic, but he has average physical tools and nowhere near the accuracy, anticipation and acumen to push him over the top.

At this point, I would say he is solidly behind Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel with the potential to lose ground to guys like Landry Jones and Tyler Bray. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a second rounder here.

coming out of hs, i expected a lot more from him; the hype around him was unbelievable; then hes named starting qb and beats osu at osu in his 2nd game

disappointing career for sure

gpngc
09-27-2012, 07:28 PM
He is Curtis Paintering himself. Should've declared last year.

http://www.vigilantsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Curtis-Painter-hair.jpg

You called?

SickwithIt1010
09-27-2012, 07:47 PM
At this point, I would say he is solidly behind Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel with the potential to lose ground to guys like Landry Jones and Tyler Bray. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a second rounder here.

Lol, What?

D-Unit
09-27-2012, 08:54 PM
ABBERRRAAATTTIIOOOOONNNN!!!! :freakout: :freakout: :freakout:

Saints-Tigers
09-27-2012, 10:13 PM
USC QB's are pampered princesses, that's the real issue. Way too much good things going for them at USC to ever learn to handle adversity. Money, bitches, weapons all over, awesome offensive lines, TV love...

Damn I'm jelly :(

DcmRulz
09-27-2012, 11:38 PM
Barkley is like Eli Manning or Jay Cutler in that when he's bad, he's AWFUL. But he's got about as much upside as any non-superstar QB in this league.

Raiderz4Life
09-28-2012, 12:17 AM
At this point, I would say he is solidly behind Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel with the potential to lose ground to guys like Landry Jones and Tyler Bray. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a second rounder here.
http://cdn.overclock.net/6/6f/6f7d7db4_350x700px-LL-4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg

Caulibflower
09-28-2012, 01:34 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/jimmy-clausen-nd-nc-600x400.jpg

FUNBUNCHER
09-28-2012, 05:40 AM
Barkley is like Eli Manning or Jay Cutler in that when he's bad, he's AWFUL. But he's got about as much upside as any non-superstar QB in this league.


That's just it, I don't think Barkley is considered to be a QB with much upside.
He may look as good in the pros as his best games at USC, but I doubt he's a guy scouts think will be an even more dynamic player in the NFL.

Barkley has had the benefit of playing with multiple future NFL players on offense, so IMO what you see with Barkley is what you get.

I totally agree there's not much chance he's the first overall pick, and he has a less than 50/50 shot to be the first QB draft particularly since this class at the top is weak for teams looking to draft franchise QB type prospects.

D-Unit
09-28-2012, 01:19 PM
I enjoy watching people jump off the bandwagon. I don't think he'll be the #1 overall pick, and I like Tyler Wilson more, but Barkley offers a lot to like. I can see a team like the Raiders or Cowboys being a perfect spot for him.

wicket
09-28-2012, 02:49 PM
why are people calling Manuel a prospect, he is borderline draftable iyam

bored of education
09-28-2012, 03:00 PM
he just seems off and he is not as comfortable in the pocket, the losses to the oline dont help as someone already mentioned

MassNole
09-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Why are people surprised that he is regressing with who he has for a head coach?

MI_Buckeye
09-28-2012, 03:12 PM
why are people calling Manuel a prospect, he is borderline draftable iyam

Manuel's going to end up having a Heisman campaign IMO, and he has all the protoype measurables of a top QB prospect.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 03:22 PM
Why are people surprised that he is regressing with who he has for a head coach?

What? Where are you going with this? Kiffen has been known as one of the best playcallers in CFB for a while now. If anything people would have expected his numbers to sky rocket. Dumb statement.

MassNole
09-28-2012, 03:27 PM
What? Where are you going with this? Kiffen has been known as one of the best playcallers in CFB for a while now. If anything people would have expected his numbers to sky rocket. Dumb statement.

Only USC fans would believe this. With the talent he had he was below average as an OC at USC, then completely ruined Jamarcus Russell in the NFL, now we see Matt Barkley regress as a Senior.

descendency
09-28-2012, 03:28 PM
Only USC fans would believe this. With the talent he had he was below average as an OC at USC, then completely ruined Jamarcus Russell in the NFL, now we see Matt Barkley regress as a Senior.

I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility when you said the bold part.

wicket
09-28-2012, 03:31 PM
Manuel's going to end up having a Heisman campaign IMO, and he has all the protoype measurables of a top QB prospect.

he is going to have a heisman campaign based on his schedule and his defense, him being considered has nothing to do with his own skills, hell, he isnt even the best qb on his own team

MassNole
09-28-2012, 03:38 PM
he is going to have a heisman campaign based on his schedule and his defense, him being considered has nothing to do with his own skills, hell, he isnt even the best qb on his own team

:facepalm:

He is 6'5, 240 lbs, has a good arm, and is currently the ACC's all time leader in career completion percentage. On top of that he's run a pro style offense under a coach who has produced multiple NFL draft picks. On top of this, he is tough as demonstrated by playing the second half of a bowl game with a broken leg.

Clint Trickett has a stronger arm, but that is about it. Down the road Jameis Winston will probably be a better NFL prospect, but it's impossible to say for sure as a true freshman.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 03:38 PM
Only USC fans would believe this. With the talent he had he was below average as an OC at USC, then completely ruined Jamarcus Russell in the NFL, now we see Matt Barkley regress as a Senior.

You have no clue as to what the **** you are talking about right now.

hawkeye123
09-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Only USC fans would believe this. With the talent he had he was below average as an OC at USC, then completely ruined Jamarcus Russell in the NFL, now we see Matt Barkley regress as a Senior.

What does Russel being a lazy fat lard have anything to do with Kiffin?

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 03:52 PM
What does Russel being a lazy fat lard have anything to do with Kiffin?

http://www.jamesjoyce.co.uk/images/14817_thisthis.jpg

Raiderz4Life
09-28-2012, 04:15 PM
I love guys like MassNole...they always offer good lulz

MassNole
09-28-2012, 04:17 PM
What does Russel being a lazy fat lard have anything to do with Kiffin?

So player motivation has nothing to do with being an NFL HC? He never had those issues under the combination of Saban, Fisher, and Miles at LSU and put up tremendous numbers in a defense first conference.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 04:25 PM
So player motivation has nothing to do with being an NFL HC? He never had those issues under the combination of Saban, Fisher, and Miles at LSU and put up tremendous numbers in a defense first conference.

Because he was just flat out better than anyone else. The guy was still a fat, lazy **** in college.

Oh I forgot Jimbo was one of his coaches, thats why he was so good at LSU. **** me right?

Caulibflower
09-28-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility when you said the bold part.

I laughed when I read that, too. Quite the leap to say any one person "ruined" a young player who couldn't quit getting busted, didn't really like football and had a higher BMI than some of his offensive linemen. There are certainly QBs whose situations put them at a huge disadvantage and make you wonder what their careers would've looked like had they landed in better spots (David Carr?), but JaMarcus is the quintessential example of a player simply not being suited to play in the NFL. Just a frickin' monstrous dude with a monstrous arm. Wasn't much more to Russell than that. If you want, you could ding Kiffin a little for not putting more support around Russell, or the Raiders organization as a whole for being dysfunctional and fostering an environment better suited for cultivating players' egos than their skills, but he certainly didn't ruin JaMarcus Russell.

Caulibflower
09-28-2012, 04:34 PM
But to tie that back into the thread - you can't say "Kiffin didn't motivate NFL Russell." Just doesn't work. Whatever kind of coach Kiffin is, Russell's problems started with himself. Russell couldn't be motivated to try to make a successful NFL career; after he got paid, it was essentially a shrug of the shoulders for him. "I got paid. I'm done."

Barkley has all the motivation in the world right now. He knows full well he's playing to be the number one pick, and you don't hear things about how Barkley doesn't have his head in it. He does - he's just not putting up the same kind of numbers that he did last year. So it's a question of whether he can make that step everyone expects him to take, the step you expect from someone you'd draft to lead an NFL offense, and he hasn't taken it. He's put up stats, but he doesn't look like he's getting better. Having a great season at USC doesn't transfer to the NFL. That's just how it goes. It's exactly the reason Jevon Snead never had a career, despite being the number 1 overall pick in I-don't-know-how-many preseason mocks after his sophomore season. Producing as an underclassman catches the eye of scouts, but if a player is going to be drafted high, he better be showing you a little more every time you see him. He should always be reinforcing the idea that he can lead an NFL team. Even if he struggles, the scout should be saying, "But he's got that accuracy, he's got that anticipation, the defense fooled him bad that time, but now he's making better reads, etc." You don't just look at his stats and say, "Well, he was really good last year, and he must be regressing this year because his coach is ruining him just like he ruined JaMarcus Russell years ago."

...Huh?

descendency
09-28-2012, 04:36 PM
So player motivation has nothing to do with being an NFL HC? He never had those issues under the combination of Saban, Fisher, and Miles at LSU and put up tremendous numbers in a defense first conference.

The dude's life coach quit on him.

Caulibflower
09-28-2012, 04:42 PM
The dude's life coach quit on him.

Ah! See? It wasn't Kiffin's fault at all. There real question here is...

...What in the world has happened to Matt Barkley's life coach?

MassNole
09-28-2012, 04:59 PM
But to tie that back into the thread - you can't say "Kiffin didn't motivate NFL Russell." Just doesn't work. Whatever kind of coach Kiffin is, Russell's problems started with himself. Russell couldn't be motivated to try to make a successful NFL career; after he got paid, it was essentially a shrug of the shoulders for him. "I got paid. I'm done."

Barkley has all the motivation in the world right now. He knows full well he's playing to be the number one pick, and you don't hear things about how Barkley doesn't have his head in it. He does - he's just not putting up the same kind of numbers that he did last year. So it's a question of whether he can make that step everyone expects him to take, the step you expect from someone you'd draft to lead an NFL offense, and he hasn't taken it. He's put up stats, but he doesn't look like he's getting better. Having a great season at USC doesn't transfer to the NFL. That's just how it goes. It's exactly the reason Jevon Snead never had a career, despite being the number 1 overall pick in I-don't-know-how-many preseason mocks after his sophomore season. Producing as an underclassman catches the eye of scouts, but if a player is going to be drafted high, he better be showing you a little more every time you see him. He should always be reinforcing the idea that he can lead an NFL team. Even if he struggles, the scout should be saying, "But he's got that accuracy, he's got that anticipation, the defense fooled him bad that time, but now he's making better reads, etc." You don't just look at his stats and say, "Well, he was really good last year, and he must be regressing this year because his coach is ruining him just like he ruined JaMarcus Russell years ago."

...Huh?

When a player regresses his senior season as a 4th year starter and at least in theory the skill players around him have only improved, then the first issue to look at is the coaching the player is receiving as the reason for the drop off, especially once the level of competition he faces increases. The last 2 weeks he is 42/74, 446 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT, for a QB rating of 104.1. Not exactly the makings of a Top 10 pick.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 05:31 PM
When a player regresses his senior season as a 4th year starter and at least in theory the skill players around him have only improved, then the first issue to look at is the coaching the player is receiving as the reason for the drop off, especially once the level of competition he faces increases. The last 2 weeks he is 42/74, 446 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT, for a QB rating of 104.1. Not exactly the makings of a Top 10 pick.

You are something else man.

FUNBUNCHER
09-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Why are you blaming Barkley's coaching??? These are mostly the same coaches that helped him to steadily progress in his development since his freshman year.
As a senior should be when a QB who's started for 4 years actually needs LESS coaching, not more.

The season is still early. I expect Barkley to get back on his grind very soon.

descendency
09-28-2012, 05:48 PM
Ah! See? It wasn't Kiffin's fault at all. There real question here is...

...What in the world has happened to Matt Barkley's life coach?

The sad thing is, USC QBs are too busy being blown by ultra hot women to need life coaches.

SolidGold
09-28-2012, 05:48 PM
When a player regresses his senior season as a 4th year starter and at least in theory the skill players around him have only improved, then the first issue to look at is the coaching the player is receiving as the reason for the drop off, especially once the level of competition he faces increases. The last 2 weeks he is 42/74, 446 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT, for a QB rating of 104.1. Not exactly the makings of a Top 10 pick.

EJ Manuel plays in a dick conference and has played no team this season with anything resembling a quality defense. Barkley is a much better prospect than Manuel will ever be. Manuel's all the sudden being hyped due to one game - he does not play at a consistently high level.

I'm not worried about Barkley. He isn't regressing - he lost Kalil - his blindside protector and that offensive line has had trouble protecting him the past few weeks. Stanford was hitting him every chance they got and Cal has a pretty solid defense as well.

Someone mentioned Keith Price's struggles vs. Stanford were due to the offensive line not being able to protect him in the Keith Price thread yet no one seems to want to recognize that same issue might be why Barkley has struggled some.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 05:54 PM
The sad thing is, USC QBs are too busy being blown by ultra hot women to need life coaches.

Barkley is very Tebow-esque, lol. Hes been dating a girl for like 7 years now, and I doubt they have even ******.

Raiderz4Life
09-28-2012, 06:02 PM
When a player regresses his senior season as a 4th year starter and at least in theory the skill players around him have only improved, then the first issue to look at is the coaching the player is receiving as the reason for the drop off, especially once the level of competition he faces increases. The last 2 weeks he is 42/74, 446 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT, for a QB rating of 104.1. Not exactly the makings of a Top 10 pick.

So the fact that he's lost 3 key guys in his line had nothing to do with it? Interesting.

yo123
09-28-2012, 06:19 PM
Barkley is very Tebow-esque, lol. Hes been dating a girl for like 7 years now, and I doubt they have even ******.

If that is at all true he's doing it so, so, so wrong.

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 06:59 PM
If that is at all true he's doing it so, so, so wrong.

Yeah she goes to Seattle U, they both rock promise rings. My buddy at USC says that he constantly sees Barkley racing off from parties on his bike while a crowd of like 10 dimes chase him. (Doesnt drive a care anywhere)

Raiderz4Life
09-28-2012, 07:05 PM
Yeah she goes to Seattle U, they both rock promise rings. My buddy at USC says that he constantly sees Barkley racing off from parties on his bike while a crowd of like 10 dimes chase him. (Doesnt drive a care anywhere)

A bike bike or motorcycle bike

SickwithIt1010
09-28-2012, 07:19 PM
A bike bike or motorcycle bike

Like a mountain bike lol.

descendency
09-28-2012, 07:21 PM
A bike bike or motorcycle bike

He's got a promise ring on with a gf going to Seattle U...

It's probably a scooter.

kalbears13
09-28-2012, 07:25 PM
Matt Barkley

HS
Freshman: 57.3% for 1685 yards 10 TDs/ 9 INTs
Sophomore: 57.1% for 1349 yards 11 TDs/ 5 INTs
Junior: 62.6% for 3560 yards 35 TDs / 9 INTs
Senior: 54.7% for 2877 yards 23 TDs/ 18 INTs

College
Freshman: 59.9% for 2735 yards 15 TDs/ 14 INTs
Sophomore: 62.6% for 2791 yards 26 TDs/ 12 INTs
Junior: 69.1% for 3528 yards 39 TDs/ 7 INTs
Senior: 61.5 % for 1005 yards 12 TDs/ 5 INTs

Eerily similar.

Raiderz4Life
09-28-2012, 07:37 PM
He's got a promise ring on with a gf going to Seattle U...

It's probably a scooter.

I just...didn't want to believe it!!!

YAYareaRB
09-28-2012, 10:48 PM
player motivation? thats ******* hilarious

LonghornsLegend
09-28-2012, 11:49 PM
A bike bike or motorcycle bike


Like a mountain bike lol.



He's got a promise ring on with a gf going to Seattle U...

It's probably a scooter.


I wanted to post on topic but this threw me all off lol. Nicely played.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2012, 04:20 AM
I don't think we've heard of Jamarcus working out for a team even one time. He has/had no desire to play after getting paid. Super talent, his arm strength actually overshadows that when he cared, he was a good QB as well.

BeardedOne
10-02-2012, 03:53 AM
Most competent NFL QBs can win with a good supporting cast around them. Would you spend the tip pick on Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, or Alex Smith? With #1 overall pick, you want someone who can consistently carry a team on his shoulders. Barkley is not that guy. His upside is hanging outside that top 12 group of QBs.

OSUGiants17
10-02-2012, 06:43 AM
Most competent NFL QBs can win with a good supporting cast around them. Would you spend the tip pick on Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, or Alex Smith? With #1 overall pick, you want someone who can consistently carry a team on his shoulders. Barkley is not that guy. His upside is hanging outside that top 12 group of QBs.

Alex Smith WAS a #1 overall pick

BeardedOne
10-02-2012, 09:35 AM
Alex Smith WAS a #1 overall pick

Yeah, but in hindsight, he never would have been drafted that high.

Raiderz4Life
10-02-2012, 09:53 AM
Yeah, but in hindsight, he never would have been drafted that high.

Well they do say hindsight is 20/20

y.f.s.
10-02-2012, 01:37 PM
vs Syracuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYjRSIWA5-U&feature=plcp

vs Stanford: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiBzzHdUaTQ&feature=plcp

I've heard somebody compare him to Marc Bulger, and I think that fits to be honest. He can be good in the right situation, but limited tools are going to keep him from being the foundation of an offense I think.

He does a lot of advanced stuff pre-snap and SC runs some pretty sophisticated pass concepts, though (way moreso than during the Leinart or Sanchez eras).

onejayhawk
10-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Yeah, but in hindsight, he never would have been drafted that high.

They were saying at the time that he should not have been drafted that high. He projected mid first round. SF decided they needed the best QB available and took Smith. Rodgers was the close 2nd best, poor guy.

J

Halsey
10-02-2012, 03:27 PM
They were saying at the time that he should not have been drafted that high.

Who is "they"? "They" don't draft players. NFL teams do. "They" think every QB who's not an Andrew Luck level prospect is overrated. "They" though Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, Cam Newton, etc., etc. were all drafted too high.

onejayhawk
10-03-2012, 11:40 AM
Who is "they"? "They" don't draft players. NFL teams do. "They" think every QB who's not an Andrew Luck level prospect is overrated. "They" though Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, Cam Newton, etc., etc. were all drafted too high.

Places like this. On air pundits. IIRC the ST 49ers admitted they were reaching, but they felt it was necessary.

J

Raiderz4Life
10-03-2012, 11:47 AM
They were saying at the time that he should not have been drafted that high. He projected mid first round. SF decided they needed the best QB available and took Smith. Rodgers was the close 2nd best, poor guy.

J

This is totally off.

Thruought the whoke process it was widely known it was either Smith or Rodgers at #1. It was also said whoever wasn't picked would slide. That's exactly what happened. But no one said they were mid-1st picks that got reached on. Everyone and their mothdr knew one of them would go first.

Big Bird
10-03-2012, 08:56 PM
Barkley isn't playing up to the hype because that's all he was before this year; hype.

I beat this drum constantly over the summer, he just isn't that talented. His physical skills are lacking and his deep ball velocity leaves a lot to be desired. When he has put up numbers, it's generally him just utilizing his great talent.

The guy is Brian Brohm 2.0.

Raiderz4Life
10-03-2012, 08:58 PM
Brian Brohm 2.0 hahaha

:facepalm:

Big Bird
10-03-2012, 09:01 PM
Brian Brohm 2.0 hahaha

:facepalm:
I'm sorry the USC fan can't see it, but it's the truth.

Both overhyped as juniors, so their stock drop big as seniors, have great mechanics that make people think "oh, that makes up for his lack of physical tools." It doesn't though, and the sooner people understand that, the better so they stop overrating future clipboard holders like Barkley.

I hear Brohm is doing well in the UFL. Maybe Barkley can find professional success there...

soybean
10-03-2012, 09:07 PM
Ok well how is Barkley any different from say Matt Ryan who was considered fairly limited as a prospect (not a strong arm, average mobility). He left a lot to be desired too his Senior year throwing 19 interceptions to 31 tds.

Plus, it's not like Barkley is completely imploding. He really only had one really bad game. You can tell from freshman - sophmore - junior years his improving as a qb.

http://i.imgur.com/HSUIK.png

DanDanE420
10-03-2012, 09:12 PM
The way the game is played right now suits a player like Barkley. Timing and accuracy trumps pure arm strength. Guys like Schaub are extremely effective.

Raiderz4Life
10-03-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm sorry the USC fan can't see it, but it's the truth.

Both overhyped as juniors, so their stock drop big as seniors, have great mechanics that make people think "oh, that makes up for his lack of physical tools." It doesn't though, and the sooner people understand that, the better so they stop overrating future clipboard holders like Barkley.

I hear Brohm is doing well in the UFL. Maybe Barkley can find professional success there...

Lol I like that your argument hinges on the ASSUMPTION that I'm an SC fan. I don't really tie myself to any one school.

But its all good. You're track record has led me to take anything and everything you say with a bottle of salt.

YAYareaRB
10-03-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm sorry the USC fan can't see it, but it's the truth.

Both overhyped as juniors, so their stock drop big as seniors, have great mechanics that make people think "oh, that makes up for his lack of physical tools." It doesn't though, and the sooner people understand that, the better so they stop overrating future clipboard holders like Barkley.

I hear Brohm is doing well in the UFL. Maybe Barkley can find professional success there...

so if you have great mechanics, you're automatically gonna have a brian brohm turn out?

FUNBUNCHER
10-04-2012, 12:07 AM
I still see Barkley as a starting NFL QB. I don't think it's reasonable to expect every QB to have to CARRY an offense.

A QB is supposed to be like a great PG; make good decisions and get the ball to his playmakers.

I think Barkley can do this better than most.

He's going to have the same issues as Bradford, in that if you don't give him a quality Oline and talent at the skill positions, his skills are never going to shine.

MassNole
10-04-2012, 11:01 AM
I still see Barkley as a starting NFL QB. I don't think it's reasonable to expect every QB to have to CARRY an offense.

A QB is supposed to be like a great PG; make good decisions and get the ball to his playmakers.

I think Barkley can do this better than most.

He's going to have the same issues as Bradford, in that if you don't give him a quality Oline and talent at the skill positions, his skills are never going to shine.

Translation: He's not good enough to make the players around him better. If you're drafting a QB in the late first round or lower this is one thing, if you're taking him first overall you're just going to be keep drafting that high for the considerable future.

princefielder28
10-04-2012, 11:48 AM
Ok well how is Barkley any different from say Matt Ryan who was considered fairly limited as a prospect (not a strong arm, average mobility). He left a lot to be desired too his Senior year throwing 19 interceptions to 31 tds.

Plus, it's not like Barkley is completely imploding. He really only had one really bad game. You can tell from freshman - sophmore - junior years his improving as a qb.

http://i.imgur.com/HSUIK.png

In Matt Ryan's defense, he wasn't surrounded by NFL caliber talent at running back or receiver...Barkley is playing with the best wide receiver duo in the entire nation

onejayhawk
10-04-2012, 12:04 PM
This is totally off.

Throughout the whole process it was widely known it was either Smith or Rodgers at #1. It was also said whoever wasn't picked would slide. That's exactly what happened. But no one said they were mid-1st picks that got reached on. Everyone and their mother knew one of them would go first.

Almosr every thing you said (fixed some for you) agrees with what I said. The 49ers were taking a mid rounder, knew it, admitted it and did it anyway.

Everyone and the mother in law's, sister's dog knew that the 49ers were taking a QB. They also knew there was no worthy QB in the draft pool. Ergo they knew it was a reach, admit it or no. Admitting a reach is a PR issue.

J

Babylon
10-04-2012, 12:41 PM
Almosr every thing you said (fixed some for you) agrees with what I said. The 49ers were taking a mid rounder, knew it, admitted it and did it anyway.

Everyone and the mother in law's, sister's dog knew that the 49ers were taking a QB. They also knew there was no worthy QB in the draft pool. Ergo they knew it was a reach, admit it or no. Admitting a reach is a PR issue.

J

In hindsight the Niners would trade down and draft Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think.

MassNole
10-04-2012, 12:46 PM
In hindsight the Niners would trade down and draft Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think.

Until Harbaugh became his HC, Aaron Rodgers would have been an abortion of a #1 overall pick for the 49ers. He is the text book example of why it is important for a QB to be able to sit a couple years and learn the offense before being thrown to the wolves, especially with the previous history of Tedford QBs in the NFL who started as rookies. IIRC, the Packers were so unimpressed early on that taking Matt Leinart the next year was on the table. Obviously Rodgers has proven everyone wrong, but had he gone to San Francisco then he wouldn't be close to the QB he is now.

BRAVEHEART
10-04-2012, 12:54 PM
Hey guys, he's playing against Utah tonight.

Babylon
10-04-2012, 01:12 PM
Hey guys, he's playing against Utah tonight.

Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.

MassNole
10-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.

This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.

Babylon
10-04-2012, 01:23 PM
This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.

No doubt. I'm looking forward to the Holmes vs Loteuleli matchup.

BRAVEHEART
10-04-2012, 01:52 PM
Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.

I don't think it's as much Khaled vs Starlite 1on1, but the whole line against theirs. I don't think Khaled went 1on1 with him too much last year.

onejayhawk
10-04-2012, 02:02 PM
In hindsight the Niners would trade down and draft Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think.

No one wanted to trade up. Back then the first 3-5 picks were almost untradable, except if there was a franchise QB in the pool.

J

soybean
10-04-2012, 02:04 PM
In Matt Ryan's defense, he wasn't surrounded by NFL caliber talent at running back or receiver...Barkley is playing with the best wide receiver duo in the entire nation

yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.

TACKLE
10-04-2012, 02:13 PM
In Matt Ryan's defense, he wasn't surrounded by NFL caliber talent at running back or receiver...Barkley is playing with the best wide receiver duo in the entire nation

yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.

Zobel'd. ...

MassNole
10-04-2012, 02:20 PM
yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.

He forced an absurd number of throws his senior year at BC.

Halsey
10-04-2012, 02:21 PM
This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.

Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l

MassNole
10-04-2012, 02:27 PM
Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l

Every FBS QB that Utah has faced has had a terrific day and none of them have much NFL potential at this point. If he has a good day, that is what a possible #1 pick is supposed to do. It certainly won't prove he's fixed whatever is wrong with him this season or that he is back, it would simply be him doing what he should. Now if he goes for like 600 yards and 8 TDs, we can talk. But say 350 and 4 TDs is basically what he should do against their efense.

Babylon
10-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l

So Geno Smith's numbers mean nothing because he's faced garbage defenses too, right?

MassNole
10-04-2012, 03:50 PM
So Geno Smith's numbers mean nothing because he's faced garbage defenses too, right?

Basically. Last week's game was simply pathetic, he had 5-6 seconds to throw and the Baylor secondary is at a bad FCS level talent wise. Those numbers are eye popping but translate to the NFL about as well as those of Andre Ward and David Klingler.

y.f.s.
10-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l

Norv Turner has said that when he scouts QBs for the draft, he specifically requests cutups of 3rd down situations, man coverage, blitzes, and throws under pressure. Basically, he wants to see the QB in difficult, adverse situations.

Nobody cares about completing a bubble screens. I charted Barkley's games vs Stanford and Oregon last year myself. 50% of his throws travel through the air 5 yards or fewer beyond the LOS. Close to another 50% of those passes don't even travel past the LOS. ESPN Stats and Info released today that he's 3-15 on passes of 20 yards or further. I've cut most of his games up this year and had other people chart him. More of the same.

That's not to say I hate Barkley as a QB prospect or think he shouldn't be drafted in the first round. He's not Mark Sanchez. On the actual intermediate/downfield dropback pass stuff USC does, he's making some pretty sophisticated reads. He's responsible for a lot of stuff at the LOS - and all the screen stuff I was talking about is actually built into their gun game. So while the throws aren't necessarily difficult, he's still responsible for processing a lot of info pre-snap. I just don't think he's a god-tier QB prospect (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Take Andy Dalton, for instance. Great QB, much better than I thought he'd be. That being said, he went to an amazing situation. Still not sure how good he'd be in a piss poor situation like Cleveland, Jacksonville, or New York, but I definitely think he'd make the talent around him better, as opposed to being wholly reliant on his supporting cast. I'm not quite saying that Barkley is, but his physical limitations are concerning. That being said, the book isn't written either. Still a lot of games to be played.

SolidGold
10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
Every FBS QB that Utah has faced has had a terrific day and none of them have much NFL potential at this point. If he has a good day, that is what a possible #1 pick is supposed to do. It certainly won't prove he's fixed whatever is wrong with him this season or that he is back, it would simply be him doing what he should. Now if he goes for like 600 yards and 8 TDs, we can talk. But say 350 and 4 TDs is basically what he should do against their efense.

Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.

MassNole
10-04-2012, 03:56 PM
Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.

Matt Barkley doing that in a Pro Style offense against a team with one stud DL and at least the rest are solid shows a lot more than Smith doing it against a defense where I doubt there is one NFL player. Barkley won't have 5, 6, up to 7 seconds to throw the ball and for routes to develop. Geno Smith's day was a real life video game, plain and simple.

y.f.s.
10-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.

Matt Barkley doing that in a Pro Style offense against a team with one stud DL and at least the rest are solid shows a lot more than Smith doing it against a defense where I doubt there is one NFL player. Barkley won't have 5, 6, up to 7 seconds to throw the ball and for routes to develop. Geno Smith's day was a real life video game, plain and simple.

Isolate the QB.

FUNBUNCHER
10-04-2012, 11:10 PM
Until Harbaugh became his HC, Aaron Rodgers would have been an abortion of a #1 overall pick for the 49ers. He is the text book example of why it is important for a QB to be able to sit a couple years and learn the offense before being thrown to the wolves, especially with the previous history of Tedford QBs in the NFL who started as rookies. IIRC, the Packers were so unimpressed early on that taking Matt Leinart the next year was on the table. Obviously Rodgers has proven everyone wrong, but had he gone to San Francisco then he wouldn't be close to the QB he is now.

Really??
This is news to me.
Rodgers was NOT expected to come into GB and unseat Brett Favre as a rookie or 2nd year pro. He was a value pick, their potential QB of the future. I never heard or read anything that said the Packers weren't thrilled with everything Rodgers did in camp and in preseason waiting his turn.

princefielder28
10-05-2012, 07:14 AM
Really??
This is news to me.
Rodgers was NOT expected to come into GB and unseat Brett Favre as a rookie or 2nd year pro. He was a value pick, their potential QB of the future. I never heard or read anything that said the Packers weren't thrilled with everything Rodgers did in camp and in preseason waiting his turn.

Leinart was never a consideration for the Packers...their pick came down to AJ Hawk or Vernon Davis and they ended up going with the wrong guy

SickwithIt1010
10-05-2012, 03:05 PM
Hard to tell how Vernon would have done in Green Bay. Obviously imagining what he is now in that offense is a SCARY thought, but Singletary ripping his ass has a lot to do with the player hes become IMO.

WCH
10-06-2012, 02:02 AM
Vernon Davis literally cried tears of joy when the Packers passed on him. That's reason enough to think that he would have been a bad fit.

And yeah, I've never heard that the Packers considered Leinart. Ted Thompson did have some very good things to say about Vince Young, for whatever TT's pre-draft word is worth.

PossibleCabbage
10-06-2012, 11:32 AM
The player the Packers really wanted that year was D'Brickashaw Ferguson, anyway. I suspect that Thompson had Ferguson, Bush, and Williams above Hawk or Davis, either was a consolation prize and I suspect Davis would have been a terrible fit.

Personally I wanted Ngata there, and I still want Ngata there.

Babylon
10-06-2012, 12:38 PM
Thought Barkely looked the part on thursday night. I think the big year that Geno Smith has had is coming at the expense of Matt Barkely, which it shouldn't. I still see him coming off the board in the top 5 picks.

SickwithIt1010
10-06-2012, 01:35 PM
The touchdown he threw to Lee is the some of the most arm strength ive seen out of him in a long time.

Babylon
10-06-2012, 01:53 PM
The touchdown he threw to Lee is the some of the most arm strength ive seen out of him in a long time.

To be honest i always thought he had a strong arm going all the way back to highschool.

SickwithIt1010
10-06-2012, 02:05 PM
To be honest i always thought he had a strong arm going all the way back to highschool.

As do I, but he doesnt show it off enough.

y.f.s.
10-06-2012, 02:27 PM
The touchdown he threw to Lee is the some of the most arm strength ive seen out of him in a long time.

You mean the one that hung up in the air that Lee had to stop and wait for?

Not an attack at you, but I never see the same things other people see with USC QBs. Ever.

SickwithIt1010
10-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Yeah, it hung for a second but like I said in my last post...he never seems to want to show it off. I feel like had he put that more on a line it would have been perfect. If you go back to his high school film it seemed like he made throws of that distance regularly and put them on a line most times. Idk they just seemed to come out with more zip.

Raiderz4Life
10-06-2012, 03:12 PM
You'd think his arm would be stronger with all the masturbating he must do because he won't smash on all them fine USC girls.

SickwithIt1010
10-06-2012, 03:14 PM
You'd think his arm would be stronger with all the masturbating he must do because he won't smash on all them fine USC girls.

He probably frowns upon whacking it as well...

...that would suck.

y.f.s.
10-06-2012, 03:29 PM
Yeah, it hung for a second but like I said in my last post...he never seems to want to show it off. I feel like had he put that more on a line it would have been perfect. If you go back to his high school film it seemed like he made throws of that distance regularly and put them on a line most times. Idk they just seemed to come out with more zip.

I get what you're saying, because he very often doesn't follow all the way through with his throwing motion. Will cut it short and try to "place" the throw.

StudentBodyLeft
10-06-2012, 05:18 PM
You mean the one that hung up in the air that Lee had to stop and wait for?

Not an attack at you, but I never see the same things other people see with USC QBs. Ever.

Quit hating. It hung up in the air because it was thrown 50+ yards. Who in the NFL do you know can throw it 50+ yards on a line?

Anywho, if you measure the distance from throw to catch, it was 58 yards with a tight spiral all the way through. That's the same distance as this throw from Mike Vick to Desean Jackson in this video. Again, measure the yardage from throw to catch.

Jv5dTTYuDpk

And yes, Lee did have to stop and wait for it, but it was thrown pretty far already. Anything more would be elite arm strength. The bottom line is this: Matt Barkley has above average arm strength for an NFL QB. He's at his best on short to intermediate routes, but does need to work on his deep ball.

FUNBUNCHER
10-06-2012, 09:41 PM
Mike Vick threw that ball from his own 3 yard line all the way to the SKins 35 yard line where Desean caught it. 62 yards in the air, a little more than 58.

If Barkley really does have a live arm, he becomes a franchise type prospect.
What I don't understand is as a prep all I heard about him was mainly about his arm strength. Being able to throw the football 58 yards classifies as a strong arm IMO. So why doesn't he display it more in an offense that's designed to exploit the talents of a QB with deep ball skills??

Or maybe that's just it, Barkley may not have great accuracy beyond 25-40 yards, like Rex Grossman.

Really I think being from USC will hurt Barkley's final evaluation by scouts more than his actual tools or game film.

DcmRulz
10-06-2012, 09:56 PM
Barkley is capable of making the deep throw with zip, and some of them look beautiful.

I remember a bomb to Marquise Lee against Oregon, about 50 yards in the air for around 1 second, leading to a 59 yard TD. But he opts to go to the flat or the shorter route more often (like Ponder circa 2012).

While his deep balls look beautiful and fairly quick, they're way off target if he puts zip on the deep ball. He's just not that accurate a deep thrower (that 3 for 15 completion rate from deep sounds fairly consistent from his prior years).

descendency
10-06-2012, 11:32 PM
The question isn't how far you can throw it, but how far you can throw a frozen rope.

Arm strength isn't measured in distance. It's measured in seconds. Seconds to complete a 25 yard out throw from the opposite hash, without stepping into it.

FUNBUNCHER
10-07-2012, 12:02 AM
Has anyone so far had serious questions about Barkley's zip on intermediate passes?? I thought that was the best part of his game.
The negatives were mostly his ability to drive the ball downfield.

Saints-Tigers
10-07-2012, 12:30 AM
Honestly, this forum thinks everyone except Kellen Moore has a strong arm.

DcmRulz
10-07-2012, 12:39 AM
Considering the core he usually got in college, Barkley could work on a team with a good slot WR and a guy who can stretch the field. Buffalo might do nicely for a guy like Barkley.

kalbears13
10-07-2012, 04:51 AM
The question isn't how far you can throw it, but how far you can throw a frozen rope.

Arm strength isn't measured in distance. It's measured in seconds. Seconds to complete a 25 yard out throw from the opposite hash, without stepping into it.

You realize that how far you can throw it is directly correlated to how fast you can throw it right? It's basic projectile motion physics stuff...

bucfan12
10-07-2012, 11:33 AM
I think there is too much nit-picking with Barkley's game. I will agree i don't see enough of him to consider him an elite prospect. I got to watch USC Thursday night and I will say, he has the command of a Franchise QB. He's got an arm no weaker than Matt Ryan's and his arm is just strong enough.

I seem as a tweener between Ryan and Andy Dalton coming out, only difference is coming from a bigger school .

Halsey
10-07-2012, 06:30 PM
There are two levels of arm strength on the DC forums: Rocket arm and noodle arm. No QB can possibly be somewhere in between.

keylime_5
10-07-2012, 06:40 PM
I'm more concerned about his size and lack of athleticism than his arm strength. He can make the throws but he's too small. That lack of size will be a lot more of a problem in the pros (where everyone is big and fast) than it is in college.

vidae
10-07-2012, 07:12 PM
He's listed at 6'2 but I wouldn't be shocked if he measured up at around 6 feet. He doesn't look very tall to me.

SickwithIt1010
10-07-2012, 07:14 PM
He's listed at 6'2 but I wouldn't be shocked if he measured up at around 6 feet. He doesn't look very tall to me.

measure in at 6'1" and 3/4 in spring practice.

Raiderz4Life
10-07-2012, 07:27 PM
Just get him bigger spikes. Problem solved.

SickwithIt1010
10-07-2012, 07:35 PM
I mean, he would measure in at 6'2" in cleats so...its whatever.

keylime_5
10-07-2012, 07:44 PM
You can eyeball him and tell that he's not very tall or big just by comparing him to the other players. Usually if you are that small in the NFL you are a little more atlhletic that Barkley is if you're going to be successful.

Raiderz4Life
10-07-2012, 07:47 PM
You can eyeball him and tell that he's not very tall or big just by comparing him to the other players. Usually if you are that small in the NFL you are a little more atlhletic that Barkley is if you're going to be successful.

Funny how he's considered small now but I remember trying to sack him in HS and used to think "**** this guy's thick, go down ************!"

keylime_5
10-07-2012, 07:48 PM
well high school, nfl, two different things.

Raiderz4Life
10-07-2012, 08:00 PM
Yea I know...just thought is was kinda funny.

BRAVEHEART
10-09-2012, 09:38 AM
Funny how he's considered small now but I remember trying to sack him in HS and used to think "**** this guy's thick, go down ************!"

What HS you play for?

bucfan12
10-09-2012, 04:24 PM
I think so many are finding too many small flaws with Barkley. I noticed his offensive line is very weak, which is a major issue that many seem to over-look. No protection= no time to set the feet and make a throw or read.

Barkley is getting overrated to the point I think he's underrated in the end. Geno Smith is a very good prospect no doubt, but you don't think his weapons aren't doing a lot of the work? Austin and Bailey are taking 10-15 yard routes and turning them into big plays as well. But people will look at Barkley and say his WRs are doing the work.

Barkley has been a starter since he was a Freshman. He's had 4 years to develop and his instincts and intanglibles are excellent to the caliber of a Franchise guy. His arm is no weaker than that of a Matt Ryan's and that is my comparison.

I think he'll be an elite QB because he's got the intangibles, can make all the throws, and can throw on anticipation and get a guy open and know's how to read defenses.

D-Unit
10-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Barkley is fine.... His draft stock is fine... He'll be a high pick and get a great chance to prove himself in the NFL.

People need to climb away from the ledge.

soybean
10-10-2012, 08:02 PM
DIDYJzlZ2IA

Norv Turner has said that when he scouts QBs for the draft, he specifically requests cutups of 3rd down situations, man coverage, blitzes, and throws under pressure. Basically, he wants to see the QB in difficult, adverse situations.

Nobody cares about completing a bubble screens. I charted Barkley's games vs Stanford and Oregon last year myself. 50% of his throws travel through the air 5 yards or fewer beyond the LOS. Close to another 50% of those passes don't even travel past the LOS. ESPN Stats and Info released today that he's 3-15 on passes of 20 yards or further. I've cut most of his games up this year and had other people chart him. More of the same.


after watching all his throws in both games again, I low key i agree with this. He played tight and predetermined where he was going with the ball. He also tried a lot to force it to robert woods.

Now I know Utah isn't the best barometer but watching all his throws from Utah he looks like a much more mature qb. He waited until receivers were open, and didn't force any throws to anyone that was covered. He also took what the defense gave him and stepped away from the rush a lot of times. He's definitely not the perfect prospect but he's got good placement on his balls and I think he has the necessary tools.

KCStud
10-10-2012, 09:17 PM
Honest question guys: is Matt Barkley any better than the previous USC QB's? Cassel, Leinart, Palmer and Sanchez all haven't had that much success and you can't really say they are a franchise QB can you?

Raiderz4Life
10-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Better than all but Palmer.

You're grouping post-injury Palmer with them but pre-injury Palmer looked like one of the best QBs in the league.

SickwithIt1010
10-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Honest question guys: is Matt Barkley any better than the previous USC QB's? Cassel, Leinart, Palmer and Sanchez all haven't had that much success and you can't really say they are a franchise QB can you?

as a prospect I think hes better than all of em outside of Palmer IMO. Leinart looked the part but if you paid attention you knew how much of a bum he was behind the scenes.

SolidGold
10-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Honest question guys: is Matt Barkley any better than the previous USC QB's? Cassel, Leinart, Palmer and Sanchez all haven't had that much success and you can't really say they are a franchise QB can you?

Palmer was the absolute prototype of an NFL QB when he came out - big, smart, accurate and strong armed. This was back right when I began getting into the draft so its all vague now but he was as close to as perfect of a QB prospect as you could get. I guess I would compare him with Andrew Luck to a point as a "perfect QB prospect" you could get. I still remember that long pass play when Kimo rolled up on his leg in the playoff game and than two years later - he had that arm issue and was never really the same.

Leinart was a pretty big disappointment - his work ethic and lack of a strong arm really hurt him. He seems to have caught on as a career backup but is definitely a bust.

Sanchez was never anything special. He only started for one year and had an avg skill set. I think his persona and the fact he threw at the combine really lifted his stock in eyes of the Jets who needed a franchise QB. The Jets really over drafted based on a need in a really weak QB draft.

Cassell really can't be bashed to hard. He was a seventh round afterthought when he was drafted. He had the prototypical size and the Pats basically struck gold with him. Considering he was a 7th round pick he has had a remarkably good career (compare his career to Sanchez's for fun). Don't kill me Chiefs fans!! Not saying he should be a Franchise QB but considering his career path his career has been solid.

In my eyes Barkley is a notch below Palmer but above all those other QBs. He will have been a 4 year starter, has a good head on his shoulders, shows poise, dedication, has a good arm and is accurate. I think he has all the traits of a franchise QB

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2012, 02:00 AM
At the time when Leinart came out there weren't major concerns about his arm. It wasn't a cannon but it wasn't a pop gun either. IMHO Barkley wasn't a better pro prospect than Leinart. In fact in hindsight Leinart busting is somewhat mindboggling.

Carson Palmer was a major disappointment at USC until his final season. He was always a guy who had great potential, but never put it together until Norm Chow took over as his QB coach.

None of those guys is Barkley, and Barkley isn't the same as every QB who's left USC.

I am concerned that Barkley plays in a system that only asks him to make clean decisions with the football but rarely is he asked to challenge a defense with his arm.

Someone described the amount of bubble screens and passes less than 5 yards Barkley throws, and if you weren't paying attention it sounded like he was describing Texas Tech's air raid offense under Mike Leach that always had QBs who threw for 4K/35 TDs but were never anything in the NFL.

I think Barkley will be better than Sanchez which would make a solid to good NFL QB, but I also believe he'll have some of the same problems in the NFL.

y.f.s.
10-11-2012, 02:09 AM
There were concerns on this board about Leinart's arm...big part of the Cult of Cutler growing on here before the 06 draft. Even worse, though, was how slow he was at everything. Drop, release, reads....everything was slow motion for Leinart and still is. Combine those attributes with a weak arm, and dude better be Tom Brady before the ball is snapped or else he'll die.

SickwithIt1010
10-11-2012, 02:44 AM
In the end Leinart busted because he would rather party and pound chicks than be a good football player.

Halsey
10-11-2012, 03:47 AM
Barkley will bust because he went to USC. The team with the #1 pick should take whoever the QB at Ole Miss is. He'll be just like Eli.

Cudders
10-11-2012, 06:43 AM
Nothing is wrong with him. He was built up to be something he never was. Itís a routine preseason draft practice. The tools to be a number one overall pick just werenít there. You need to be special to survive pro scouts. Once scrutinized, he ďslippedĒ to a more reasonable slotting. Thatís all.

Now, that isnít to belittle him. Heís far from a poor prospect. Heís a rock-solid quarterback. Not an impressive thrower, but a polished package between the ears. Iíve seen him be an accurate passer. Iíve seen him make smart decisions. His game has a certain smoothness to it that Sanchezís doesnít, so I think that particular comparison is unfair. Iím not a fan of his arm strength right now and I have some mechanical issues, too. Almost to the point where itís hand-in-hand. Thereís some general sloppiness that needs to be tidied up, which goes for most college quarterbacks, but I donít love the throwing motion. It can get stiff and truncated and undermine his natural strength. On some of his throws, he flashes plus zip, so thereís definite room for improvement when it comes to functional arm strength. Comes down to whether he is willing to work at it. Correcting quarterback mechanics is more of a chore than given credit for.

Apart from that, like I said, heís rock-solid. Havenít seen special attributes, but heís got a stable skill set to work with. Stable can suffice, and even excel, in some schemes. Look at Houston. Look at San Francisco. The talent pool in this league isnít deep enough for each team to have a cornerstone quarterback. For example, ignoring the obvious Carroll-USC connection, Seattle would be a nice destination to land. On offense, that team is improved quarterback production and a top-flight target from contender status. He could be Matt Hasselbeck-esque for them.

Barkley will bust because he went to USC. The team with the #1 pick should take whoever the QB at Ole Miss is. He'll be just like Eli.

Your comments on quarterbacking amuse me.

y.f.s.
10-11-2012, 10:41 AM
In the end Leinart busted because he would rather party and pound chicks than be a good football player.

No, he busted for all the reasons I just described. Partying with chicks just prevented him from overcoming his already flawed skillset.

Saints-Tigers
10-11-2012, 10:49 AM
I was a bit concerned about Leinart's arm, but I thought he could overcome it because he seemed to really "get" being a QB. There was a confidence about him and I felt like he responded well to poor situations.

I feel like if Matt didn't become so timid in the NFL he could have still been something, though probably still not an elite QB.

TACKLE
10-11-2012, 11:02 AM
No, he busted for all the reasons I just described. Partying with chicks just prevented him from overcoming his already flawed skillset.

^^^^^^

this.

SolidGold
10-11-2012, 11:42 AM
At the time when Leinart came out there weren't major concerns about his arm. It wasn't cannon but it wasn't a pop gun either. IMHO Barkley wasn't a better pro prospect than Leinart. In fact in hindsight Leinart busting is somewhat mindboggling.

Carson Palmer was a major disappointment at USC until his final season. He was always a guy who had great potential, but never put it together until Norm Chow took over as his QB coach.

None of those guys is Barkley, and Barkley isn't the same as every QB who's left USC.

I am concerned that Barkley plays in a system that only asks him to make clean decisions with the football but rarely is he asked to challenge a defense with his arm.

Someone described the amount of bubble screens and passes less than 5 yards Barkley throws, and if you weren't paying attention it sounded like he was describing Texas Tech's air raid offense under Mike Leach that always had QBs who threw for 4K/35 TDs but were never anything in the NFL.

I think Barkley will be better than Sanchez which would make a solid to good NFL QB, but I also believe he'll have some of the same problems in the NFL.

Sounds alot like the offense Geno Smith runs more so than the USC offense. From what I have seen USC takes more shots downfield - WVU's offense is all crossing patterns and bubble screens with lots of YAC.

bucfan12
10-11-2012, 11:57 AM
Sounds alot like the offense Geno Smith runs more so than the USC offense. From what I have seen USC takes more shots downfield - WVU's offense is all crossing patterns and bubble screens with lots of YAC.

This. I like Geno Smith a lot but Barkley I see gets dogged for his system and the talent around him. I've pulled more yape in comparing the two. Geno Smith also has weapons that he benefits from taking 7-10 yd crossing patterns to 40-50 yd TD plays.

If most are critiquing Barkley bc of his cast and scheme, why are none doug the same with Smith?

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Both WVU, and TTech under Mike Leach, run/ran the 'Air Raid' offense, a variation of the spread, so yes there are much more of those five yard hitch routes and bubble screens.

But generally speaking it seems that Geno Smith takes more shots downfield. Maybe the difference is Smith hits on more downfield plays and has better long ball accuracy than Barkley, so it doesn't feel like all his passing stats are YAC by his WRs.

Raiderz4Life
10-11-2012, 12:57 PM
What HS you play for?

I played for St. John Bosco HS
No, he busted for all the reasons I just described. Partying with chicks just prevented him from overcoming his already flawed skillset.

I think this what he was trying to get at. Him preferring to party meant he wasn't working at improving his fixable flaws and trying to mask the unfixable flaws.

ph90702
10-15-2012, 10:05 PM
Matt Barkley is overrated.

coltsarenumber32
10-17-2012, 03:57 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading. I still think Barkley is a lock to be the first QB taken. Am I really off on this now? I don't see what some other people are seeing...

caught an article at nflsoup.com that dissects where Barkley could go. they say kansas city. but that's if he goes #1, which a lot of you seem to think won't happen.

I still think he's extremely talented and has a good amount of upside. One year doesn't make or break a guy. Hopefully he can get his stock beefed back up before the year is over.

Raiderz4Life
10-18-2012, 11:02 AM
Matt Barkley is overrated.

Great assessment there sparky. Very thought provoking.

BRAVEHEART
10-21-2012, 08:41 AM
The USC signal caller had a game for the ages by completing 19 of 20 passes (his only miss was a dropped ball) for 298 yards and six touchdowns. His completion percentage (95 percent) set a Pac-12 record, and his touchdowns gave him 102 for his career, which broke the school record held by former USC quarterback Matt Leinart. It was the type of performance which should put Barkley back in the discussion for the Heisman Trophy with several high-profile games left on the schedule to make his case.

Matt Barkley was not satisfied with merely breaking the USC and Pac-12 career touchdown pass record. Of course, he did surpass the mark en route to tying his own school record of six TD passes in a game, but he also broke the conference single game records for completion percentage going 19/20 (95%) and pass efficiency (319.16 passer rating). "It's something I did dream of as a kid," said Barkley about playing at USC. "To be able to be here for four years living those dreams out as a senior, it's something cool. I'm trying to soak it up."

I believe 319.16 is the highest this year?

FUNBUNCHER
10-21-2012, 09:43 AM
Barkley looked like he was playing 7 on 7 against Colorado.

It's hard to see right now another QB being drafted ahead of him, no matter what physical deficiencies Barkley has as a QB.

y.f.s.
10-21-2012, 10:39 AM
Barkley looked like he was playing 7 on 7 against Colorado.

It's hard to see right now another QB being drafted ahead of him, no matter what physical deficiencies Barkley has as a QB.

Colorado is USC's Baylor. I didn't see the game, so I won't comment one way or another besides that.

This week to week **** is starting to kill me, though.

Armchair Scout
10-21-2012, 02:22 PM
I think Barkley is a bit overrated. He struggle to throw sideline routes with accuracy and he doesn't have a particularly strong arm. He is a great game manager, but his arm talent is far inferior to that of most top picks. I would take Geno Smith over him, as Smith is just a much better thrower of the football. Barkley is solid, but I am not convinced he will become a franchise QB.

Raiderz4Life
10-21-2012, 04:25 PM
I think Barkley is a bit overrated. He struggle to throw sideline routes with accuracy and he doesn't have a particularly strong arm. He is a great game manager, but his arm talent is far inferior to that of most top picks. I would take Geno Smith over him, as Smith is just a much better thrower of the football. Barkley is solid, but I am not convinced he will become a franchise QB.

O yea...Geno's superiority was on great display.

SickwithIt1010
10-21-2012, 04:28 PM
The Colorado game is what got the offense rolling last year. Lets see what he does the rest of the year, and when he goes against Oregon. I have a feeling Kiffen wasnt showing everything the last couple weeks. I think Barkley threw like 4 passes in the 2nd half last week once they had a 2 td lead over UW. No excuse for that with those weapons...

vidae
10-21-2012, 04:33 PM
Matt Barkley would also look good in KC red. Not as good as Geno, but still good.

Raiderz4Life
10-21-2012, 04:42 PM
Matt Barkley would also look good in KC red. Not as good as Geno, but still good.

I already had to put up with Barkley in a red uniform carving up my team....don't think I can take it for another 10+ years.

AcheTen (Thumper)
10-23-2012, 12:06 AM
Offensive line (or lack thereof) affects QB more than you'd think.

Armchair Scout
10-23-2012, 01:49 AM
People rag on Geno for his bad games, but Barkley has had some very poor performances as well. Yes, it is very disappointing to see Smith struggle in these past weeks. I have become uncomfortable with viewing him as a potential 1st overall pick given those struggles, but one of the reasons those struggles are so publicized is that he has been so incredibly productive in the past, against inferior defenses. Barkley's struggles have been more spread out, as he has shown poor performances against Stanford and Washington.

Don't get me wrong, there is a solid argument for Barkley as the top QB prospect for the 2013 draft, but I would prefer Smith given his superior arm talent and innate pocket presence.

Big Bird
10-23-2012, 12:53 PM
Lol I like that your argument hinges on the ASSUMPTION that I'm an SC fan. I don't really tie myself to any one school.

But its all good. You're track record has led me to take anything and everything you say with a bottle of salt.
What track record? And I think you got the phrase wrong...

And sorry for the delay, but I don't visit the forums often.

Babylon
10-23-2012, 01:02 PM
People rag on Geno for his bad games, but Barkley has had some very poor performances as well. Yes, it is very disappointing to see Smith struggle in these past weeks. I have become uncomfortable with viewing him as a potential 1st overall pick given those struggles, but one of the reasons those struggles are so publicized is that he has been so incredibly productive in the past, against inferior defenses. Barkley's struggles have been more spread out, as he has shown poor performances against Stanford and Washington.

Don't get me wrong, there is a solid argument for Barkley as the top QB prospect for the 2013 draft, but I would prefer Smith given his superior arm talent and innate pocket presence.

Barkley did struggle against Stanford mainly because their back up center had his lunch handed to him for the whole game. Against Washington his numbers were down but i'd note Desmond Trufant did a great job covering Marquis Lee.

Not sure about Geno Smith having the better arm than Matt Barkley. I guess i never bought into the whole Matt's arm is average idea.

BuckeyeDan17
10-23-2012, 02:55 PM
Really anxious to see this kid against Notre Dame.

y.f.s.
10-24-2012, 03:01 PM
Really anxious to see this kid against Notre Dame.

After this week, they play vs Oregon, vs ASU, at UCLA, and vs Notre Dame. He's either going to make or lose a lot of money in the next month.

keylime_5
10-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Barkley did struggle against Stanford mainly because their back up center had his lunch handed to him for the whole game. Against Washington his numbers were down but i'd note Desmond Trufant did a great job covering Marquis Lee.

Not sure about Geno Smith having the better arm than Matt Barkley. I guess i never bought into the whole Matt's arm is average idea.

Smith definitely has more physical talent, he makes the throws that Barkley can make with less effort and he does have pretty good pocket presence....the thing we've seen with Matt though that we haven't seen as much with Geno is that Barkley can make accurate throws into tight windows while it seems like Geno's big passes are always to wide open guys either downfield or on short passes that the WR turns into a big play after the catch (i.e. the signature of the dreaded "system" QB).

I do think that Barkley's lack of physical size and tools will hurt his draft stock regardless of his performance right now. Some scouts are not even putting a first round grade on him right now apparently.

BamaFalcon59
10-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Would hate to need a QB in this draft, and while people say that every year it seems, I generally don't. Geno Smith and Barkley are not players I would want to invest my franchise in.

bucfan12
10-24-2012, 05:09 PM
I still think Tyler Wilson is the best guy to go with. All 3 will probably go in the top 12. Theres really no comfort zone for any teams needing a QB. I feel bad for Cheifs, Cardinals, Bills, and Raider fans. Any one of them who takes a QB is really reaching.

Saints-Tigers
10-24-2012, 06:05 PM
Yea, I wouldn't want to be a top 5 or so team needing a QB this year. You'll feel the pressure of getting a guy, and I'm not a fan of taking a QB unless I'm pretty sure he'll be a top tier guy.

Halsey
10-25-2012, 01:41 AM
Would hate to need a QB in this draft, and while people say that every year it seems, I generally don't.

Yea, I wouldn't want to be a top 5 or so team needing a QB this year. You'll feel the pressure of getting a guy, and I'm not a fan of taking a QB unless I'm pretty sure he'll be a top tier guy.

Seems like people forget every year that most QBs are not viewed as "sure things" before they enter the league. Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning were not viewed as sure things. They had as many or more doubters than Barkley does. Many Giants and Packers fans didn't want them at the time they were drafted.

San Diego Chicken
10-25-2012, 07:15 AM
Seems like people forget every year that most QBs are not viewed as "sure things" before they enter the league. Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning were not viewed as sure things. They had as many or more doubters than Barkley does. Many Giants and Packers fans didn't want them at the time they were drafted.

Rodgers yes. He had many doubters. Manning, not even close. He was the original Andrew Luck. He was basically guaranteed to go #1 overall when he decided to go back for his senior year.

Halsey
10-25-2012, 10:42 AM
Rodgers yes. He had many doubters. Manning, not even close. He was the original Andrew Luck. He was basically guaranteed to go #1 overall when he decided to go back for his senior year.

Sorry, but I remember clearly all the claims that Eli was an overrated brat who got by on his last name. He was not viewed by fans as Andrew Luck was at the time they were drafted.

y.f.s.
10-25-2012, 10:44 AM
Sorry, but I remember clearly all the claims that Eli was an overrated brat who got by on his last name. He was not viewed by fans as Andrew Luck was at the time they were drafted.

You remember those criticisms here or elsewhere?

I think you get a little too overboard trying to rail against this point, but it really is amazing how quarterback prospects on this board either have to be the second coming or a complete bum.

Before anyone says I've been critical of Barkley in this thread, remember too that I've maintained all along that he's easily a 1st round prospect. I'm just really unsure as to whether he's the best QB in this class (which I think is actually a very good and deep QB class, especially for Seniors).

jth1331
10-27-2012, 03:48 PM
This group of QB's really does seem extremely iffy.
Geno has been highly inconsistent of late
Barkley hasn't really been impressive this year, as he has struggled against tougher opponents.
Wilson, I don't get why he gets a pass for his inconsistency and Landry Jones doesn't.

SolidGold
10-27-2012, 03:56 PM
This group of QB's really does seem extremely iffy.
Geno has been highly inconsistent of late
Barkley hasn't really been impressive this year, as he has struggled against tougher opponents.
Wilson, I don't get why he gets a pass for his inconsistency and Landry Jones doesn't.

Jones could experience a rise if he plays strong to close out the season. Barkley has been a little bit of a disappointment. Wilson I think gets some slack due to the ****** situation at Arkansas - he has played pretty well all things considered. Smith has been exposed against good defenses and should raise some red flags IMO.

jth1331
10-27-2012, 04:02 PM
Jones could experience a rise if he plays strong to close out the season. Barkley has been a little bit of a disappointment. Wilson I think gets some slack due to the ****** situation at Arkansas - he has played pretty well all things considered. Smith has been exposed against good defenses and should raise some red flags IMO.

All the top rated QB's seem iffy/questionable to me. All have shown flaws that make me think "Maybe this guy isn't elite franchise QB".
But at some point, you need to roll the dice and hope you get your QB.

FUNBUNCHER
10-27-2012, 07:23 PM
On that last Hail Mary play, Barkley threw the ball 60 yards in the air easily.
I'm beginning to agree that Barkley's problem isn't throwing the long ball, it's throwing long with accuracy where he struggles.

DcmRulz
10-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Having an inaccurate deep throw is a fairly common issue. It's the type of issue that separates an all-star QB from a franchise face QB, but as flaws go, it's fairly common.

bigbluedefense
10-27-2012, 08:37 PM
On that last Hail Mary play, Barkley threw the ball 60 yards in the air easily.
I'm beginning to agree that Barkley's problem isn't throwing the long ball, it's throwing long with accuracy where he struggles.

The biggest misconception about arm strength is when we judge it based on the deep ball.

The deep ball isn't an accurate measure of arm strength. Noodle arms can throw it deep.

The true test of arm strength, test of an NFL caliber arm is the intermediate out patterns. If you can throw it on a rope 15 yards down the field to your right (if you're righty) with accuracy and zip, you have an NFL arm thats not limited.

y.f.s.
10-27-2012, 11:05 PM
The biggest misconception about arm strength is when we judge it based on the deep ball.

The deep ball isn't an accurate measure of arm strength. Noodle arms can throw it deep.

The true test of arm strength, test of an NFL caliber arm is the intermediate out patterns. If you can throw it on a rope 15 yards down the field to your right (if you're righty) with accuracy and zip, you have an NFL arm thats not limited.

Yup.

The second test is velocity/accuracy when you don't have functional space and can't fully stride into the throw.

Makes a huge difference when you can plant off that back foot and drive into the throw vs when you're resetting and throwing flat-footed with your shoulders square to the LOS because the rush made you move off your spot.

Armchair Scout
10-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Barkley can throw with excellent zip when he can step into his throws, but he doesn't fair nearly as well when he doesn't have a clean pocket. He does have issues with deep throws, though, which do stem in part from arm strength issues. He doesn't just lack consistently effective ball placement on deep throws; he floats his deep balls too much and doesn't show a particular aptitude on sideline throws of any kind beyond 15 yards.

This isn't to say he can't be a top 5 pick, but it will because of his excellent decision making both pre- and post-snap, his accuracy on short and intermediate throws, his polished footwork, and his ability to throw on the move, not his downfield throwing ability.

kwilk103
11-17-2012, 05:03 PM
17/34 257yds 3td 2 int vs ucla

up to 15 int on the year

MassNole
11-17-2012, 08:14 PM
Barkley is just god awful, in 6 games he's thrown 2+ interceptions. If he was like Matt Ryan and had to force throws because his receivers sucked, it would be one thing. But he has 2 AA caliber WRs and a good stable of RBs. He just sucks and whatever GM drafts him should already be drafting a letter of apology to their fans.

descendency
11-17-2012, 08:20 PM
Barkley is just god awful, in 6 games he's thrown 2+ interceptions. If he was like Matt Ryan and had to force throws because his receivers sucked, it would be one thing. But he has 2 AA caliber WRs and a good stable of RBs. He just sucks and whatever GM drafts him should already be drafting a letter of apology to their fans.

You missed an A in AAA.

TACKLE
11-17-2012, 08:31 PM
You missed an A in AAA.

Awesome All Americans?

Halsey
11-17-2012, 08:38 PM
So are ya'll just looking at box scores and counting interceptions, or is Barkley actually playing as bad as some are making it out as? I haven't really watched him much this year, but fans always make a big deal when a QB throws more than 1 int in a game, regardless of his overall play.

descendency
11-17-2012, 08:40 PM
Awesome All Americans?

Triple-A rating?

descendency
11-17-2012, 08:41 PM
So are ya'll just looking at box scores and counting interceptions, or is Barkley actually playing as bad as some are making it out as? I haven't really watched him much this year, but fans always make a big deal when a QB throws more than 1 int in a game, regardless of his overall play.

From what I've seen and read, he's been that bad.

MassNole
11-17-2012, 08:45 PM
So are ya'll just looking at box scores and counting interceptions, or is Barkley actually playing as bad as some are making it out as? I haven't really watched him much this year, but fans always make a big deal when a QB throws more than 1 int in a game, regardless of his overall play.

He's regressed to his Freshman form. He makes bad decisions and forces far too many passes. He now has 15 INTs this year, only games he didn't throw picks in were Utah, Hawaii, and Colorado.

Iamcanadian
11-18-2012, 10:51 AM
Lane Kiffin and his father Monte, just are not good college coaches and should be fired. The team has loads of talent and there is no way the defense should stink that bad.
The pressure on Barkley to score every time he's on the field is making mistakes come easier. This team was the consensus #1 pre-season college team and now will likely not finish in the top 25. When a QB has to put up 50+ points to win a game, interception are bound to follow. Geo Smith is in the same boat.

SickwithIt1010
11-18-2012, 01:18 PM
Lane is just fine as a college coach. Is he a better OC than a HC? Yes absolutely, but the guy deserves to be a head coach, me may have gotten the SC job before he was ready but they went out and got a guy they knew would be able to recruit at a high level under sanctions. Monte, he is not cut out for the college game and we need to move on from him.

Babylon
11-18-2012, 01:42 PM
Lane is just fine as a college coach. Is he a better OC than a HC? Yes absolutely, but the guy deserves to be a head coach, me may have gotten the SC job before he was ready but they went out and got a guy they knew would be able to recruit at a high level under sanctions. Monte, he is not cut out for the college game and we need to move on from him.

From the post Rey Rey, Cushing, Matthews era the defense hasn't been any good so not sure i'd blame Monte for all that much.

Ozzy
11-18-2012, 03:45 PM
SickwithIt1010 Lane is just fine as a college coach. Is he a better OC than a HC? Yes absolutely, but the guy deserves to be a head coach, me may have gotten the SC job before he was ready but they went out and got a guy they knew would be able to recruit at a high level under sanctions. Monte, he is not cut out for the college game and we need to move on from him.It is kind of strange, but the defensive line and linebacker positions, there are almost not there, almost no prospects at those spots. It is like they do not even have a front seven because so few of them make an impact on the game defensively. Sure 91 is ok but he is nothing elite. Is it Monte Kiffin's fault? Who knows, but all I know is with Pete Carroll they were gang busters on defense, now they are just like any standard offensive college team with little to no defensive help. Sure say it is Monte's fault but fact is they have no players and no coach could make some of those guys look good. Sure they are a fine defensive front seven for an average team but nothing compared to what they used to have in their front seven.

There is a reason why UCLA will beat them in years to come, UCLA plays defense, USC at the moment does not and I am not sure it is only because they have scholarship taken away and lack depth. If I was a top prospect I would pick UCLA over USC right now, I know that much. There is a toughness issue and I think that mindset comes right back to the head coach. I would get Kiffin out of there real fast and get an iconic coach with an actual backbone and character. Not just the son of one of the most famous NFL defensive coaches in history. Easy to blame Monte but Monte has accomplished things in his coaching career, Lane has really accomplished nothing as a head coach, nothing.

SickwithIt1010
11-18-2012, 04:03 PM
Dion Bailey is the best player on our defense it'll just be interesting to see what he projects as in the NFL. Pullard is solid but hasnt been playing as well of late.

Ozzy
11-18-2012, 04:32 PM
SickwithIt1010 Dion Bailey is the best player on our defense it'll just be interesting to see what he projects as in the NFL. Pullard is solid but hasnt been playing as well of late.Dion Bailey I would project him at safety in the NFL in my book, no one will have a 210 pound linebacker, and as a safety I would say what average at best. TJ McDonald, however he might be not as great as most want him to be, is by far the best prospect on the defense followed by Roby I feel. McDonald's ability to play in the box close to the line of scrimmage as a safety is impressive, a very rangy aggressive athlete but not as dominating in coverage as most would like but few are. He could start on a lot of teams at safety in the NFL I feel, not many good safeties are out there.

Pullard is underachieving I agree as is Dawson, sure they get tackles but who cares if you give up the points and yards they have been giving up, of course one will get tackles. They do not impact or change the game most of the time. And sure Breslin is productive with sacks but really who cares, he gets dominated in the run game as does that entire front most of the time.

Quite a shame considering where that defense came from under Pete Carroll.

SickwithIt1010
11-18-2012, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I was just saying as far as how he is playing with Bailey. Prospect wise is most definitely TJ.

Lane has made it a point to sacrifice size for speed, which is something we never did with Pete because the guys we had were just as fast but much bigger/stronger. He's trying to come up with something to match Oregon's speed and it obviously isnt working, something has to change.

Ozzy
11-18-2012, 06:47 PM
SickwithIt1010 Yeah, I was just saying as far as how he is playing with Bailey. Prospect wise is most definitely TJ.

Lane has made it a point to sacrifice size for speed, which is something we never did with Pete because the guys we had were just as fast but much bigger/stronger. He's trying to come up with something to match Oregon's speed and it obviously isnt working, something has to change.Florida State is doing that same thing with small linebackers at around 215 with Telvin Smith and Terrance Smith that have speed, but they are also tough. However they have big linebackers as well and an outstanding defensive line, the packups on Florida State on the defensive line would easily all start on USC, every single one of them.

soybean
11-19-2012, 01:48 AM
I'm still under the belief that Kiffin is an offensive genius. That doesn't necessarily mean his play calling is awesome but he at least knows how to get the most out of the offense.

Monte Kiffen and the defense has been horrible. Under holtz in 2008 we only gave up 7 passing tds all year with arguably a worse secondary.

Like I said in ther other thread, we can score with anybody in the country. If it weren't for our ****** penalties (last in f***ing college football...) and dumb turnovers, we'd have only one loss this year.

Seeing the transformation of Jonathan Crompton during the course of the season 4 years ago was nothing short of miracle work.

pierce2walker
11-19-2012, 03:57 AM
There's nothing better than $C ******** the bed. It's been a while, but the rivalry could finally be turning tides. Not to overreact to one game, but Mora looks like he has really straightened out the program and brings a no nonsense program that is basically the exact opposite of Neuheisel. Plus it looks like Hundley will be the QB to ride with for the next few years. I was really impressed with Hundley's composure in a rivalry game in the rain...certainly outplayed Barkley.

Turning back to the Barkley topic, I've watched him a few times this year, but obviously paid the most attention on Saturday as a UCLA fan. Going into the game I thought he would torch us with those receivers and the fact that UCLA's defense has been fairly average all year and has definitely given up some big plays. Both of Barkley's picks were pretty awful throws. He seems to throw a pretty accurate deep ball, but he doesn't get a lot of velocity on his throws. I'm sure he can be a solid pro, but he doesn't strike me as the stud many think he could be.

MassNole
11-19-2012, 07:58 AM
Florida State is doing that same thing with small linebackers at around 215 with Telvin Smith and Terrance Smith that have speed, but they are also tough. However they have big linebackers as well and an outstanding defensive line, the packups on Florida State on the defensive line would easily all start on USC, every single one of them.

4 LBs see most of the playing time at FSU, Telvin Smith is barely 215 in pads, but Christian Jones, Nick Moody, and Vince Williams all go 240+. That said, watching 5-6 USC games this year, no one on USC's DL would even begin to see playing time at FSU.

onejayhawk
11-19-2012, 08:44 AM
From what I've seen and read, he's been that bad.

The criticism that really sticks is that he is another Leinart.

He has a lot to like. Very clean, polished mechanics. Understands the game. Good leadership. But,

Mediocre NFL arm. Not someone you want throwing a timing pattern to a tight window. Has never had to handle real adversity. with any kind of pressure his range is 15 yards tops. He is supposed to be from an "NFL offense", but his decision responsibilities are minimal. Does not improvise well.

J

Halsey
11-19-2012, 09:02 AM
The criticism that really sticks is that he is another Leinart.

He has a lot to like. Very clean, polished mechanics. Understands the game. Good leadership. But,

Mediocre NFL arm. Not someone you want throwing a timing pattern to a tight window. Has never had to handle real adversity. with any kind of pressure his range is 15 yards tops. He is supposed to be from an "NFL offense", but his decision responsibilities are minimal. Does not improvise well.

J

What type of adversity are you talking about? What adversity have other QB prospects had to face that Barkley hasn't? That criticism seems like more of a hollow stereotype about USC QBs than actual fact.

And where is the evidence that his responsibilities are minimal?

Iamcanadian
11-19-2012, 09:02 AM
Yeah, but is Lane willing to part with his father. Saying USC has no talent on defense is ridiculous, they have plenty of talent but the DC, Lane's father, is getting nothing out of them, zilch.
He either brings in a new DC or USC is going to go downhill as a program pretty quickly. There is going to be a lot more competition for talent in California than in the last decade as many Pac 12 teams are on the rise.

y.f.s.
11-19-2012, 10:41 AM
The criticism that really sticks is that he is another Leinart.

He has a lot to like. Very clean, polished mechanics. Understands the game. Good leadership. But,

Mediocre NFL arm. Not someone you want throwing a timing pattern to a tight window. Has never had to handle real adversity. with any kind of pressure his range is 15 yards tops. He is supposed to be from an "NFL offense", but his decision responsibilities are minimal. Does not improvise well.

J

I get the offense not asking him to make a whole lot of difficult throws, but to say he has minimal decision responsibilities is just false.

The entire screen game is structurally built into their run game. Very rarely does USC just "call a screen." He actually does way, way, way more decision at the line of scrimmage pre-snap than 99% of college QBs. They give him a ton of freedom.

And that doesn't even go into him calling their run game at the line of scrimmage either.

There's a lot of things to pick on Barkley for, but that's the wrong battle to choose IMO.

y.f.s.
11-19-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah, but is Lane willing to part with his father. Saying USC has no talent on defense is ridiculous, they have plenty of talent but the DC, Lane's father, is getting nothing out of them, zilch.
He either brings in a new DC or USC is going to go downhill as a program pretty quickly. There is going to be a lot more competition for talent in California than in the last decade as many Pac 12 teams are on the rise.

They don't have an offensive line, they don't have a defensive line, and they don't have depth. More than one person pointed this out at the beginning of the season, but "hurrrrr, WRs and Silad Redd OMGZZZ" drowned everything else out.

USC is on scholarship restrictions for ****'s sake, why did anybody think they'd make it through the attrition of a college football season unscathed?

SolidGold
11-19-2012, 10:51 AM
The criticism that really sticks is that he is another Leinart.

He has a lot to like. Very clean, polished mechanics. Understands the game. Good leadership. But,

Mediocre NFL arm. Not someone you want throwing a timing pattern to a tight window. Has never had to handle real adversity. with any kind of pressure his range is 15 yards tops. He is supposed to be from an "NFL offense", but his decision responsibilities are minimal. Does not improvise well.

J

He stuck around during the USC sanctions from the Pete Carroll era. Played his ass off even though he knew they weren't bowl eligible last year. To me that says alot - a college kid decides to stay for his senior year to help his program try to reach the NC game after his 60 year old coach just bails on the team due to sanctions he was responsible for - he doesn't succeed but still has a pretty good year and the whole season he just gets picked apart. Barkley has faced adversity. His LT went to the NFL and is playing at a borderline pro-bowl level. The DE Breslin and the safety McDonald are the only players that seem to be worth a damn on the defense.

Admittedly I am a little disappointed in his season - USC did not live up to expectations but unlike Geno Smith who gets a pass because of the WVU defense - Barkley does not get that same luxury. I would still take Barkley over Smith.

soybean
11-19-2012, 01:36 PM
I know this has gotten way off topic but I just wanted to mention that in the 3rd quarter of the UCLA game I heard we only ran it 3 times (i don't remember) when Curtis McNeal was averaging 7 ypc.

y.f.s.
11-19-2012, 01:51 PM
I will never understand why Kiffin hates McNeal so much. TBH, everybody gives credit to Barkley for that insane stretch to end last year, but that stretch coincided with McNeal getting the starting RB job (and BALLING OUT). He's been their best RB and most consistent offensive player for two seasons it seems, and they're constantly trying to replace him.

pierce2walker
11-19-2012, 02:33 PM
My friends and I spoke about the abandoning of the run game as well. McNeal was gashing us and Barklet had certainly made some bad decisions so that made no sense. Saying USC has no talent in pretty much any element of the game is a bit ridiculous. Sanctions or not, they have had a top recruiting class year in and year out. Kiffin's greatest strength is probably recruiting (and the pile of violations that have come with it).

jth1331
11-19-2012, 07:14 PM
He stuck around during the USC sanctions from the Pete Carroll era. Played his ass off even though he knew they weren't bowl eligible last year. To me that says alot - a college kid decides to stay for his senior year to help his program try to reach the NC game after his 60 year old coach just bails on the team due to sanctions he was responsible for - he doesn't succeed but still has a pretty good year and the whole season he just gets picked apart. Barkley has faced adversity. His LT went to the NFL and is playing at a borderline pro-bowl level. The DE Breslin and the safety McDonald are the only players that seem to be worth a damn on the defense.

Admittedly I am a little disappointed in his season - USC did not live up to expectations but unlike Geno Smith who gets a pass because of the WVU defense - Barkley does not get that same luxury. I would still take Barkley over Smith.

So lets blindly defend Barkley, when I could do the same for Landry Jones to be honest.

Man, none of these QB's really stand out to me. Its going to be one of those classes I think you hope you pick the right guy.

vidae
11-19-2012, 07:21 PM
So lets blindly defend Barkley, when I could do the same for Landry Jones to be honest.

Man, none of these QB's really stand out to me. Its going to be one of those classes I think you hope you pick the right guy.

As opposed to what?

SickwithIt1010
11-19-2012, 07:23 PM
As opposed to what?

Obviously every class has 5 can't miss guys, and they don't have to go through the process.

Halsey
11-19-2012, 08:03 PM
How many times a year does this get posted on every Draft message board:

"This years crop of QBs is teh suxxorz! (Insert team) should wait till next year! Next years class will be loaded at QB!"

vidae
11-19-2012, 08:06 PM
How many times a year does this get posted on every Draft message board:

"This years crop of QBs is teh suxxorz! (Insert team) should wait till next year! Next years class will be loaded at QB!"

I've been harping on this for the last month. People do this almost every single year. Someone will separate themselves from the pack soon enough.

SolidGold
11-19-2012, 08:15 PM
So lets blindly defend Barkley, when I could do the same for Landry Jones to be honest.

Man, none of these QB's really stand out to me. Its going to be one of those classes I think you hope you pick the right guy.

I like Jones and am on the record saying that. I wasn't blindly defending Barkley - I acknowledged he was disappointing this season. Like Vidae said the pre-draft process will help sift through all the QB prospects.

onejayhawk
11-20-2012, 06:29 AM
He stuck around during the USC sanctions from the Pete Carroll era. Played his ass off even though he knew they weren't bowl eligible last year. To me that says alot - a college kid decides to stay for his senior year to help his program try to reach the NC game after his 60 year old coach just bails on the team due to sanctions he was responsible for - he doesn't succeed but still has a pretty good year and the whole season he just gets picked apart. Barkley has faced adversity. His LT went to the NFL and is playing at a borderline pro-bowl level. The DE Breslin and the safety McDonald are the only players that seem to be worth a damn on the defense.

Admittedly I am a little disappointed in his season - USC did not live up to expectations but unlike Geno Smith who gets a pass because of the WVU defense - Barkley does not get that same luxury. I would still take Barkley over Smith.

Adversity in QB terms. See, for example, Freeman at Kansas State before the coaching change. He may see an unblocker pass rusher once a game, not everythird play.

J

TheFinisher
11-23-2012, 06:55 PM
The criticism that really sticks is that he is another Leinart.

He has a lot to like. Very clean, polished mechanics. Understands the game. Good leadership. But,

Mediocre NFL arm. Not someone you want throwing a timing pattern to a tight window. Has never had to handle real adversity. with any kind of pressure his range is 15 yards tops. He is supposed to be from an "NFL offense", but his decision responsibilities are minimal. Does not improvise well.

J

I've seen this criticism often, and I have to say I don't agree with it at all. SC's OLine has been trash this year and Barkley has handled it A LOT better than most are giving him credit for. His ability to improvise this season has been one of his strongest traits, he's been brilliant buying more time in the pocket and delivering strikes down the field from all sorts of body angles. From what I've seen, everyone wants to credit his receivers for making him look good.... but I've seen the opposite. Barkley has thrown some absolute dimes, and he does it on a weekly basis. And I'm talking NFL caliber throws 15+ down the field... despite popular opinion, SC has more to their offensive playbook than the bubble screen. There have been way too many routine drops, poorly run routes, and failures to win jump ball situations. Basically, Barkley's surrounding cast has not given him a whole lot of help this year.

Barkley is the safest QB in this class, and I know no prospect is 100% fool-proof... but I'd bet on him becoming a good to great QB at the next level. His ball placement and touch is close to elite, and that will always be more important to QB play in the NFL than having a rocket arm. Not to mention, his decision making is top notch. There's another guy by the name of Drew Brees who had similar strengths and weaknesses as Matt Barkley, and he turned out OK.

brat316
01-28-2013, 07:50 PM
I think Andy Reid is going to pick Barkley.

He does everything well that Andy Reid needs and wants in a WCO. He has great short to mid range weapons in Dexter and Jamaal, and those TEs. Also a WR that can do it all, KC might improve drastically in 1 season.

D-Unit
01-28-2013, 07:51 PM
I think Andy Reid is going to pick Barkley.

He does everything well that Andy Reid needs and wants in a WCO. He has great short to mid range weapons in Dexter and Jamaal, and those TEs. Also a WR that can do it all, KC might improve drastically in 1 season.
At least Barkley is better than Geno.

Miaoww
01-28-2013, 08:09 PM
He's Jimmy Clausen with a better PR team.

Babylon
01-28-2013, 08:30 PM
I think Andy Reid is going to pick Barkley.

He does everything well that Andy Reid needs and wants in a WCO. He has great short to mid range weapons in Dexter and Jamaal, and those TEs. Also a WR that can do it all, KC might improve drastically in 1 season.

would be funny as hell if after all was said and done it was Barkley after all. Could have saved us a lot of time in here.

BRAVEHEART
01-28-2013, 08:40 PM
He's Jimmy Clausen with a better PR team.

There is no better PR team than ND.

nepg
01-28-2013, 09:14 PM
Barkley's issues are size, arm strength (deep ball - he has zip), and injuries. That's pretty much it. He's battle tested and if injuries and his arm don't get in the way, he's a great QB. I sort of like him, but he scares the **** out of me because of the injuries and size.

y.f.s.
01-29-2013, 01:19 PM
Barkley's issues are size, arm strength (deep ball - he has zip), and injuries. That's pretty much it. He's battle tested and if injuries and his arm don't get in the way, he's a great QB. I sort of like him, but he scares the **** out of me because of the injuries and size.

Those things aren't concerning in and of themselves, it's the sum of those things that cause him to have major issues when forced to move off his spot and reset. That worries me more than the physical traits.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2013, 01:27 PM
Guys. Just bc you just saw a bunch of qbs in the senior bowl play like ****, doesn't mean you have to go back and look at Barkley and try to convince yourself he's good again just for the sake of wanting someone to be good.

He is what he is. Trust your eyes.

brat316
01-29-2013, 01:30 PM
Those things aren't concerning in and of themselves, it's the sum of those things that cause him to have major issues when forced to move off his spot and reset. That worries me more than the physical traits.

Reid will solve that. WCO qb.

Babylon
01-29-2013, 01:30 PM
Those things aren't concerning in and of themselves, it's the sum of those things that cause him to have major issues when forced to move off his spot and reset. That worries me more than the physical traits.

I actually think he moves around fairly well in the pocket. I'm probably alone in my thinking but i always thought he had a pretty strong arm.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2013, 01:33 PM
Reid will solve that. WCO qb.

WCO offense is no longer in existence. The terminology still exists, but the offense as a whole is obsolete.

Present day "WCO" teams run just as many vertical concepts as any other offense.

I can make an argument that the pure WCO actually requires more arm strength then a vertical offense anyway bc you need zip to fit the ball into tighter windows.

brat316
01-29-2013, 01:37 PM
WCO offense is no longer in existence. The terminology still exists, but the offense as a whole is obsolete.

Present day "WCO" teams run just as many vertical concepts as any other offense.

I can make an argument that the pure WCO actually requires more arm strength then a vertical offense anyway bc you need zip to fit the ball into tighter windows.

we know he has the zip in the short to mid range game, which would be great for the tight windows in the wco. but has no accuracy in the deep ball.

If CK can do it, Barkley maybe able to as well.

y.f.s.
01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
I actually think he moves around fairly well in the pocket. I'm probably alone in my thinking but i always thought he had a pretty strong arm.

Oh, he moves well enough when pressure forces him too, it's just that the ball has a tendency to either die out on him or he ends up making a terrible decision. Oregon game is a great example of this.

WCH
01-29-2013, 03:07 PM
Reid will solve that. WCO qb.

I don't think he's quick footed enough to make it in a WCO (which, like BBD said, is somewhat obsolete). Montana, Young, Favre, McNabb...the best WCO QBs had quick feet (it's worth mentioning that young-Favre was almost a completely different QB than the old, beaten down version that's fresh in our memories). Bill Walsh was even pretty open about the fact that foot quickness was the first thing he looked for in a QB.

y.f.s.
01-29-2013, 04:03 PM
WCO offense is no longer in existence. The terminology still exists, but the offense as a whole is obsolete.

Present day "WCO" teams run just as many vertical concepts as any other offense.

I can make an argument that the pure WCO actually requires more arm strength then a vertical offense anyway bc you need zip to fit the ball into tighter windows.

Really, the only difference between most NFL offenses is how they're communicated. There are families of terminology, and every team has certain ratios of what they like to do/are good at. But (for the most part) everybody is running the same **** conceptually, and it's all a remix of what Paul Brown and Sid Gillman came up with in the 60s.

Schematically, the NFL is very, very bland on a micro-level, and incredibly complex on a micro-level.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2013, 04:06 PM
Really, the only difference between most NFL offenses is how they're communicated. There are families of terminology, but (for the most part) everybody is running the same **** conceptually, and it's all a remix of what Paul Brown and Sid Gillman came up with in the 60s.

All NFL offenses and defenses are essentially the same ****. We want to categorize them bc in the past some concepts have revolutionized the sport, like the 46, the 3-4, the cover 2, etc, but all concepts are used by all teams.

The only difference being, depending on the preference of your coach, you'll use some concepts more than others. And build your team around that. That's really the only difference.

And the read option is a new concept that's peculiar to only some teams.

Random thought of mine: I wonder if the flex makes a comeback in some capacity with the read option becoming popular. The flex would help keep those linebackers clean and might work in neutralizing some of the effectiveness of the read option.

brat316
01-29-2013, 04:10 PM
Really, the only difference between most NFL offenses is how they're communicated. There are families of terminology, and every team has certain ratios of what they like to do/are good at. But (for the most part) everybody is running the same **** conceptually, and it's all a remix of what Paul Brown and Sid Gillman came up with in the 60s.

Schematically, the NFL is very, very bland on a micro-level, and incredibly complex on a micro-level.

But the Giants.

They have a complex offense, both the WR and Qb need to read the same thing for the option routes to work.

Yeah I don't see why the routes would change from offense to offense. Cause routes are routes.

Everyone runs a slant, slant and go, post corner, post, streak, drag, dig, come back.

How frequently, fashion and combination with other routes is what separates the offenses, would you not say?

You are not going to see some unique new routes, like a double comeback, or run up 10 hook a right like a corner route, but then turn right again back towards LOS and then turn left after 2 yards.

brat316
01-29-2013, 04:14 PM
All NFL offenses and defenses are essentially the same ****. We want to categorize them bc in the past some concepts have revolutionized the sport, like the 46, the 3-4, the cover 2, etc, but all concepts are used by all teams.

The only difference being, depending on the preference of your coach, you'll use some concepts more than others. And build your team around that. That's really the only difference.

And the read option is a new concept that's peculiar to only some teams.

Random thought of mine: I wonder if the flex makes a comeback in some capacity with the read option becoming popular. The flex would help keep those linebackers clean and might work in neutralizing some of the effectiveness of the read option.

Flex would keep everything in 1 lane.

MEDlsrPoe6Q

bigbluedefense
01-29-2013, 04:19 PM
But the Giants.

They have a complex offense, both the WR and Qb need to read the same thing for the option routes to work.

Yeah I don't see why the routes would change from offense to offense. Cause routes are routes.

Everyone runs a slant, slant and go, post corner, post, streak, drag, dig, come back.

How frequently, fashion and combination with other routes is what separates the offenses, would you not say?

You are not going to see some unique new routes, like a double comeback, or run up 10 hook a right like a corner route, but then turn right again back towards LOS and then turn left after 2 yards.

Well to be fair, we're the only team (now that Chan Gailey is fired) that runs a Run N Shoot.

Those choice routes and WR rules are a lot more complicated than your traditional "option" route.

The WR rules are much more detailed.

Do other teams run options? Every team does. Do they run Run N Shoot choice routes?

Only NYG, NE do currently to my knowledge. Buffalo used to but again, Chan is fired so they probably won't anymore.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2013, 04:21 PM
Flex would keep everything in 1 lane.

MEDlsrPoe6Q

I'd like to see the Flex come back in some capacity. I think the general concept of the Flex has a place in the NFL in certain packages.

y.f.s.
01-29-2013, 04:53 PM
But the Giants.

They have a complex offense, both the WR and Qb need to read the same thing for the option routes to work.

Eh, even the Giants aren't that different. They've borrowed some of the run-and-shoot concepts Gilbride used to run in Houston, but they've distilled them down and still run it out of a very traditional offense. We make a big deal about the option-routes being unique to the run-and-shoot, but just about every single NFL pass play has sight-adjustments built in.

Yeah I don't see why the routes would change from offense to offense. Cause routes are routes.

Everyone runs a slant, slant and go, post corner, post, streak, drag, dig, come back.

How frequently, fashion and combination with other routes is what separates the offenses, would you not say?

Yep, you're on the right track. The routes in don't mean much of anything and there are only a few true "isolation" routes designed to beat one-on-one man coverage. Passing games are like the pick-and-roll in basketball. By design, you're trying to get a two-on-one advantage or a three-on-two advantage in space and put a defender in a bind.

One-on-one is actually an advantage for the defense, which is why it's a complete misnomer when announcers say "he had single coverage" or crap like that. The NFL is a bit more of a one-on-one matchup league because you have incredible specimens that can make contested catches, but the bulk of what makes a passing game go are trying to get a numbers advantage in space.

That's why it's better to try and learn the passing game conceptually. It's easier to understand how a pass game is attacking the field - horizontal stretches, hi-lows (vertical stretches), triangle stretches, etc.

For example...All Curl/Flat is a horizontal stretch play designed to put five underneath receivers against four underneath zone defenders. The MLB's drop is the key, work opposite of him. All of the windows are horizontal - you're stretching the routes across the field. Same exact thing for a deep passing play like four verticals. It's a horizontal stretch - you're hoping to get four wide receivers across against two or three deep defenders. One is a deep horizontal stretch, the other is a short horizontal stretch, but they're conceptually the same thing.

You are not going to see some unique new routes, like a double comeback, or run up 10 hook a right like a corner route, but then turn right again back towards LOS and then turn left after 2 yards.

Yep. You'll see some tweaks here and there, but for the most part coaches are trying to come up with new route combinations as opposed to new routes.

princefielder28
02-02-2013, 08:31 AM
Call me stupid but just looking at all the options for Kansas City at #1, especially if Branden Albert is re-signed, I think Barkley will be the guy. I have been as critical on Barkley for his play this past year as anyone, but when NFL teams throw in the film they'll see considerable struggles from Geno Smith following his hot start and Barkley has very good tape from his junior year to support his game.

I'd personally take Tyler Wilson #1, but that's clearly not gonna happen.

bitonti
02-02-2013, 12:43 PM
Call me stupid but just looking at all the options for Kansas City at #1, especially if Branden Albert is re-signed, I think Barkley will be the guy. I have been as critical on Barkley for his play this past year as anyone, but when NFL teams throw in the film they'll see considerable struggles from Geno Smith following his hot start and Barkley has very good tape from his junior year to support his game.

I'd personally take Tyler Wilson #1, but that's clearly not gonna happen.


He's got a hurt shoulder and comes from the school that produced Mark Sanchez. He stayed in school an extra year when he didn't have to like Matt Leinart another recently "great" USC QB.

Buffalo would be a dire place for his skills and AZ NYJ can't take another USC QB.

Matt Barkley's draft stock is early 2nd at best.

Cp3
02-02-2013, 01:44 PM
What is Barkley's ceiling?

Ozzy
02-03-2013, 05:23 PM
Will be interesting to see where Barkley goes. Coming into the season I think most had him the #1 pick in the draft. Has consistent production over the years, but this year it is kind of out of sight out of mind. And he did not perform all that well in the big games he did play in before the injury.

Not comparing the two but Aaron Rodgers lost his final college game, a bowl game 45-31 to Texas Tech. Cannot say that did not help him fall in the draft, lack of recent success, coming in on a bad note much like Barkley.



Now will Barkley be able to sit as long as Rodgers did and learn, I doubt it, but I also doubt Barkley is as bad as some say he is. He had some fine years for USC when they did not really have that much talent around or that much to play for.

Kid can throw the ball effortlessly, much like Rodgers coming out. But that injury with Barkley could be the thing that decides his future.

descendency
02-03-2013, 05:32 PM
What is Barkley's ceiling?

Some might argue Drew Brees.

edit: I think everyone looks better until you start watching their games looking for flaws and for elite traits. You will find more flaws than elite traits almost always.

Babylon
02-03-2013, 07:12 PM
What is Barkley's ceiling?

I'd be comfortable with a Matt Ryan comparison.

FUNBUNCHER
02-03-2013, 07:16 PM
He'll be better than Mark Sanchez, I just don't know what his ceiling is.

Black Bolt
02-03-2013, 09:03 PM
What is Barkley's ceiling?

Jay Fiedler

TheFinisher
03-01-2013, 12:49 PM
What is Barkley's ceiling?

Obviously he was a much better athlete outside the pocket, but I see a lot of Rich Gannon(Oakland raiders version) in Barkley when watching him operate in the pocket. Very similar arm talent too. Not a great fit for every offense, but if he lands in an offense with WC tendencies he's gonna carve up defenses.