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View Full Version : 2012 49ers Gameday Thread: Week 4: 49ers at Jets


Borat
09-29-2012, 06:16 AM
Week 4:
Sunday, September 30, 2012

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0927/com_120927_nfl_CDDPredict_SFNYJ/com_120927_nfl_CDDPredict_SFNYJ.jpg

San Francisco 49ers (2-1)
At
New York Jets (2-1)

Location: Metlife Stadium
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/new-meadowlands-metlife-stadium.jpg

Time: 10:00 am pst
Line: SF -4
Announcers (FOX): Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

Obviously, the 49ers are going to lose. They have to face this guy:
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63927/151636183_standard_1348626528_730.jpg
HINT: NOT MARK SANCHEZ

Ok, just had to get the obligatory Tebow joke out of the way.

San Francisco is 9-2 all time against the Jets and are 5-1 against them in New York New Jersey. Niners have a better team. They should win this game. Of course, that’s pretty much exactly what I said last week against the Vikings. I overlooked them. So did the Niners. I won’t do it this week. Hopefully they don’t either.

Last weeks performance was fairly awful. They looked flat and slow and slow and also, slow. Any team in the league could have beaten them. I really think they’ll be up for this game. But it’s tough to beat Jesus’ team
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tebow-jesus.jpg


Time to eat crow: I was a pre-draft believer in this guy:
http://www.holidayinn-newyork.com/our-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mark-sanchez-jets.jpg
HINT: NOT THE GAY GUY ON THE RIGHT

I didn’t think he’d be elite, but I pegged him as being top 15. With a Matt Schaub ceiling. I was wrong.

But there is always this:
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/051909_mark_sanchez_gq_magazine_shoot.jpg

Is Rex Ryan, like, the greatest Troll of all time?
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/wibx950.com/files/2012/07/Rex-Ryan-before-and-after-630x484.jpg
You can’t even make fat jokes anymore. Dammit Rex.

So, ummm, this guy:
http://ocnnreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Darrelle-Revis-5.jpg
Is out because of this:
http://balljunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/67777_NpAdvSinglePhoto.jpg

But hey, always remember, Tebow has a plan for all of us and He works in mysterious ways
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tebow-jesus.jpg

The plan is to use this:
http://usc.ocregister.com/files/2011/01/Joe-McKnight-AP.jpg
To replace this:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.458452!/img/httpImage/image.jpg
For reals.

But hey, always remember, Tebow has a plan for all of us and He works in mysterious ways
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tebow-jesus.jpg

Too bad we don’t get to see this draft crush:
http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.3988144.1347582460!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG

But hey, always remember, Tebow has a plan for all of us and He works in mysterious ways
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tebow-jesus.jpg


I wanted Fleener, then Hill … then a bunch of other guys … then this:
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/12/76/43/2877694/9/628x471.jpg

Silver lining is …
http://l.yimg.com/os/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/yahoo_aj_jenkins.jpg
Being part Vulcan could become a huge asset down the line

I’d like to see some more of this guy in the slot:
http://www.fantasyfootballchallenge.com/images/player_photos/49ers-receiver-kyle-williams-runs-after-catch-against-arizona-cardinals.jpg
Get him out in space and he’s a big play waiting to happen.

And please feed this beast the ball:
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/15/25/54/3496726/3/628x471.jpg

And finally … hey, remember this guy:
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/15/25/53/3496663/3/628x471.jpg
Still waiting on that first endzone fade. I’d run that play, maybe, once a ******* game at least. I mean, it’s Randy ******* Moss out there. Give him a look, … you know … like, … at least, ONCE A ******* GAME. I just don’t underst …

But hey, always remember, Tebow has a plan for all of us and He works in mysterious ways
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tebow-jesus.jpg

Amen.

Standings
NFC West
1. Arizona Cardinals (3-0)
2. San Francisco 49ers (2-1)
2. Seattle Seahawks (2-1)
4. St. Louis Rams (1-2)

AFC East
1. New York Jets (2-1)
1. Buffalo Bills (2-1)
3. New England Patriots (1-2)
3. Miami Dolphins (1-2)

Special Note:

http://a.fn.fncdn.com/images/content/getty/comp/XMUrUW.jpg
And with a simple touch, Alex Smith transfers all his Alexsmithiness to Christian Ponder.

abaddon41_80
09-29-2012, 07:31 AM
Honestly, as someone who has always prided himself on being able to objectively judge the attractiveness of anyone regardless of gender, I don't see why women think Sanchez is attractive.

Ness
09-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Honestly, as someone who has always prided himself on being able to objectively judge the attractiveness of anyone regardless of gender, I don't see why women think Sanchez is attractive.

Well...he's not an ugly guy.

Doesn't matter. He's a celebrity. I'm sure Jonah Hill can get supermodels too.

Ness
09-29-2012, 11:24 AM
Oh and about the game, the 49ers better win. If they lose again...it could start a downward spiral. These are the kind of bounce-back games this team needs to win. I hope it's a blowout too. If this 49ers team is the next Steelers/Ravens type team that wins a good amount of games annually and doesn't lose many back to back games, then this should be a win. More pressure is on the 49ers this week to win than the New York Jets.

By the way Harbaugh, you can pass the ball deep. Remember Moss is on your team.

Borat
09-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Niners were 3-0 last year following a loss.

Ness
09-29-2012, 12:06 PM
Niners were 3-0 last year following a loss.

Right, but 2011 could still be seen as a fluke season.

By the way I typed in Youngstown, Ohio in the Google image search and there is like nothing out there. Looks like a ghost town.

Borat
09-29-2012, 02:01 PM
Right, but 2011 could still be seen as a fluke season.


Sure. BTW, I wasn't arguing with you, just posting that stat. I guess you could go with 4-0 off a loss if you count the week 1 win as coming off the NFCCG loss.

Harbaugh doesn't believe in losing streaks.

phlysac
09-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Right, but 2011 could still be seen as a fluke season.

By the way I typed in Youngstown, Ohio in the Google image search and there is like nothing out there. Looks like a ghost town.

Huh? Youngstown is far from a ghost town. But it's definitely not a big city. Players shouldn't be doing anything but practicing and studying film, anyways.

abaddon41_80
09-29-2012, 07:16 PM
Isn't the population of Youngstown only like 50,000?

49erNation85
09-29-2012, 09:50 PM
I think JH is afraid to let Alex Smith down field , he has no deep ball IMO. I was like throw it deep all game last week.But really no Moss at all ? Why the hell you sign him then ? Then a big peeve , is why the hell are we not passing the ball more in the 3rd quarter then like the last 4 min we have the ball?Freaking stupid . I know we are a running team but c'ome on man. PASS THE BALL MORE!! And these dinky passes 10 yards or less.

abaddon41_80
09-29-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't think the problem is that Alex can't throw the deep ball. He threw an excellent deep ball in 2006, Norv said it was the best he ever saw after he left the 49ers. I am sure he lost some arm strength after the separated shoulder fiasco but he has still thrown some pretty deep balls since then. There are two problems, one with Alex and one with the system.

Alex's problem is that he doesn't want to throw to covered receivers because he just doesn't have the confidence that they will make a play on the ball. Moss may still be able to out-jump everyone but he hasn't looked like he can still outrun everyone. Alex isn't just going to throw it up to him.

The second, and bigger, problem is that the 49ers just aren't going deep. You can watch the games and see that there are not many deep patterns. This is a WC-style offense. The QB completes short, quick passes and the receivers get YAC. The 49ers receivers haven't been very great and getting YAC this year, though.

phlysac
09-29-2012, 11:03 PM
Isn't the population of Youngstown only like 50,000?

Just under 70,000.


{redneck voice} Guess y'all city-folk thinks datsa ghost town.

I was born 3 miles from a town of 609 (last census) and live in a town of 1573 (2010 census.)

Youngstown is basically a little more than half as many people as Santa Clara.

Ness
09-29-2012, 11:45 PM
Huh? Youngstown is far from a ghost town. But it's definitely not a big city. Players shouldn't be doing anything but practicing and studying film, anyways.

Just seems like no one is on the streets from the images I saw.

Carlos Rogers was on KNBR the other day and he sounded bored as hell. I'm sure all the players put their time in studying film and practicing, but they also get some down time too.

Ness
09-29-2012, 11:48 PM
I don't think the problem is that Alex can't throw the deep ball. He threw an excellent deep ball in 2006, Norv said it was the best he ever saw after he left the 49ers. I am sure he lost some arm strength after the separated shoulder fiasco but he has still thrown some pretty deep balls since then. There are two problems, one with Alex and one with the system.

Alex's problem is that he doesn't want to throw to covered receivers because he just doesn't have the confidence that they will make a play on the ball. Moss may still be able to out-jump everyone but he hasn't looked like he can still outrun everyone. Alex isn't just going to throw it up to him.

The second, and bigger, problem is that the 49ers just aren't going deep. You can watch the games and see that there are not many deep patterns. This is a WC-style offense. The QB completes short, quick passes and the receivers get YAC. The 49ers receivers haven't been very great and getting YAC this year, though.
That's fine and all. I don't mind it really. But the 49ers need to start throwing deeper down the field when there is barely any time left on the clock and you are down by two scores. I was disappointed that they stuck with the short passing game and didn't try anything beyond a few yards when they really needed a big play.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 12:22 AM
Moss, Moss, Moss. The passing game is more than Moss. Everyone wants Moss to get more throws....why? Because when I re-watch the first 3 games, I see a guy who looks old out of his breaks. He's lost a step and some hops. He's still a good route runner but the explosion in and out of his breaks is m.i.a. This is not the Moss we saw in NE and Minny in the early years. I don't think he's the homerun threat ppl think. He still may be able to get behind a defense but those days of just throwing one up and watching Moss go get it are over and done. Age has caught up to him. Catches up to everyone eventually. But defense still key on him and CBs are still weary of him. So he still helps the passing game even if a pass doesn't go his way.

The guy who REALLY needs more touches is Manningham. That guys has some jets and plays with a certain explosion. He's cat-quick and elusive after the catch. Need to get him some more touches, ASAP. He is the key to opening up the passing game, not Moss.

Borat
09-30-2012, 12:47 AM
I don't think anyone feels Moss is a No. 1 WR that should see 10-12 targets a game. But I think he should get at least ONE legitimate target when we get in the red zone. Just once a series. That doesn't seem like much of a workload for Moss. I feel everyone's frustration that if they're just going to ignore him, then he's just wasting a roster space. I don't think anyone is out of line for wondering what exactly the plan was for signing him at this point.

49ersfan_87
09-30-2012, 12:51 AM
I don't think anyone feels Moss is a No. 1 WR that should see 10-12 targets a game. But I think he should get at least ONE legitimate target when we get in the red zone. Just once a series. That doesn't seem like much of a workload for Moss. I feel everyone's frustration that if they're just going to ignore him, then he's just wasting a roster space. I don't think anyone is out of line for wondering what exactly the plan was for signing him at this point.

We did target him 5-6 times against the Vikings, especially early on. Alex missed him high on a couple of throws, including a TD.

Borat
09-30-2012, 01:14 AM
We did target him 5-6 times against the Vikings, especially early on. Alex missed him high on a couple of throws, including a TD.

Correct. But, I said IN THE REDZONE. Randy doesn't have to be a thoroughbred when we're inside the 20. His size, body-control, and hands are a huge asset that we should be giving a shot in the Redzone. I would rather target him once or twice a game in the redzone, rather than 5-6 times at midfield.

Ness
09-30-2012, 02:02 AM
What is wrong with throwing a bomb deep to Moss once a game? A lot of people think he is done, but we won't know until the 49ers at least try. Especially when you are down two scores. If Moss is a guy that isn't going to out jump a defensive back for a ball I want to see it with my own eyes. Then we'll know if he's actually worth being here.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 05:10 AM
Correct. But, I said IN THE REDZONE. Randy doesn't have to be a thoroughbred when we're inside the 20. His size, body-control, and hands are a huge asset that we should be giving a shot in the Redzone. I would rather target him once or twice a game in the redzone, rather than 5-6 times at midfield.

But we've done that EVERY game at least once, like you said. He had a p/i call against the Lions in the red-zone that put the ball at the goaline. And Alex missed him for a easy TD on a corner route against the Vikes so we are doing excatly what you asked. My complaint is for the 'we need to go deep to Moss' camp. If he's one on one, sure no problem. Fact is, he hasn't been deep, one-on-one yet. Part of Moss's value as a WR is that he dictates coverage. His presence allows for other stuff to open up elsewhere on the field. There's value in that alone. We'll take shots when the opportunity presents itself. It hasn't presented itself yet. If we send him deep and he has a safety and a CB with him, we still throw him the ball just to say we did it? Thats the logic I'm not understanding at this point. Just because you don't see the ball go to him, doesn't mean we haven't sent him deep. And if we send him deep and he takes two and three CBs with him, that doesn't mean Alex should ignore logic and just toss him jump-balls into double coverage so we can say, 'hey look....we're using him'.

Ness
09-30-2012, 06:51 AM
How many times was Jerry Rice doubled one on one and Montana and Rice still went to him?

How many times was Randy Moss doubled all his career and quarterbacks still went his way?

How often is Calvin Johnson doubled, yet Matt Stafford still throws to him?

If you have a playmaker you give him a chance. You don't wait for him to be in single coverage and only throw him the ball in that circumstance. If he has a step on two people, throw him the ball.

Brent
09-30-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't think Alex is going to throw him the ball because he doesn't trust him. You can see Alex's trust in Crabs and VD; he will throw to them in tight coverage, but he won't with Randy.

And, is it just me, or does it seem like Alex throws high to Randy all the time? He did that crap last year with Crabs when they didn't have much practice together.

farfromforgotten
09-30-2012, 07:09 AM
How many times was Jerry Rice doubled one on one and Montana and Rice still went to him?

How many times was Randy Moss doubled all his career and quarterbacks still went his way?

How often is Calvin Johnson doubled, yet Matt Stafford still throws to him?

If you have a playmaker you give him a chance. You don't wait for him to be in single coverage and only throw him the ball in that circumstance. If he has a step on two people, throw him the ball.

You can't compare 2012 Randy Moss to Jerry Rice when he played with Joe Montana or today's Calvin Johnson.

I'm not sure what Moss has left right now. That said, hopefully he sees some action today with Revis out. Or, better yet, hopefully we get an early lead and play our style of football. It's not the most exciting type of football in the league right now, but it's pretty damn effective.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 08:06 AM
That's fine and all. I don't mind it really. But the 49ers need to start throwing deeper down the field when there is barely any time left on the clock and you are down by two scores. I was disappointed that they stuck with the short passing game and didn't try anything beyond a few yards when they really needed a big play.

I definitely agree. When it was clear the short passing game wasn't working very well at Minnesota we should have at least tried something different.

How many times was Jerry Rice doubled one on one and Montana and Rice still went to him?

How many times was Randy Moss doubled all his career and quarterbacks still went his way?

How often is Calvin Johnson doubled, yet Matt Stafford still throws to him?

If you have a playmaker you give him a chance. You don't wait for him to be in single coverage and only throw him the ball in that circumstance. If he has a step on two people, throw him the ball.

That is my point, Alex doesn't have the confidence in his guy to throw it up to him. Can we really blame him after his career? We say we want him to trust his receivers but if he does that and it is intercepted he takes the blame every single time, even if it is what we as fans wanted.

And, is it just me, or does it seem like Alex throws high to Randy all the time? He did that crap last year with Crabs when they didn't have much practice together.

I noticed that as well. I figured it was because of a miscommunication, considering how accurate Alex has been this year.

49erNation85
09-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Yes I'm with most of you hear about going deep to Randy more then once a game. I mean really, i just don't want us trying to pass the ball late int he game like in the 3 mins or less trying to gain yards. We need to do it earlier in the game like 3rd or 2nd quarter , not a whole lot but a few times a series at least .

phlysac
09-30-2012, 11:06 AM
I think a huge point that some are missing...


Jim Harbaugh DOES NOT WANT Smith "throwing it up" to guys who are covered.

Alex Smith = Conservative
Jim Harbaugh = Conservative

They fit what each other wants to do.

dan77733
09-30-2012, 11:41 AM
I think a huge point that some are missing...


Jim Harbaugh DOES NOT WANT Smith "throwing it up" to guys who are covered.

Alex Smith = Conservative
Jim Harbaugh = Conservative

They fit what each other wants to do.

That's the problem and why the 49ers wont win or get to the SB. They need to be aggressive. Stop with all this chicken **** garbage because you're not winning anything doing that. Harbaugh has to STOP being conservative and allow Smith to throw deep. Start airing it up. Even if its overthrown or intercepted, Harbaugh has to let Smith throw it deep because if they dont, no defense will ever fear our passing game and that alone will be why we wont win games.

Baalke/Harbaugh added a lot of offensive weapons this off-season (signed Moss, Manningham and Jacobs, re-signed Ginn, drafted Jenkins and James) yet our offense looks worse than last season.

Until Harbaugh takes the chains off of Smith and let's him play, we're not winning a damn thing and if we lose today, im sure this will be the reason yet again.

STOP THE CHICKEN **** PANSY GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

Borat
09-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Oh Dan. The offense is much better this year. And Harbaugh/Smith's conservatism can take them to the SB. It practically did last year until Kyle Williams' non-conservatism stepped in.

binary
09-30-2012, 11:59 AM
That's the problem and why the 49ers wont win or get to the SB. They need to be aggressive. Stop with all this chicken **** garbage because you're not winning anything doing that.

STOP THE CHICKEN **** PANSY GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

13-3 last year bro

Madirishman
09-30-2012, 12:15 PM
Should have challenged that 3rd down and long play. Sanchez was over the line when he passed....the 'ol Favre move. Would have stopped a drive that got into Niners territory.

Borat
09-30-2012, 12:18 PM
Love using Kaepernick.

Ness
09-30-2012, 12:23 PM
You can't compare 2012 Randy Moss to Jerry Rice when he played with Joe Montana or today's Calvin Johnson.

I'm not sure what Moss has left right now. That said, hopefully he sees some action today with Revis out. Or, better yet, hopefully we get an early lead and play our style of football. It's not the most exciting type of football in the league right now, but it's pretty damn effective.

The point is when you have a playmaker you give that guy a chance.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 12:25 PM
How many times was Jerry Rice doubled one on one and Montana and Rice still went to him?

How many times was Randy Moss doubled all his career and quarterbacks still went his way?

How often is Calvin Johnson doubled, yet Matt Stafford still throws to him?

If you have a playmaker you give him a chance. You don't wait for him to be in single coverage and only throw him the ball in that circumstance. If he has a step on two people, throw him the ball.

Seriously, are you really comparing a 35 year old Randy Moss to Megatron and Rice in their prime? I'm done having this conversation with you. CK just granted your wish. Luckily it wasn't picked because it should have been.

Ness
09-30-2012, 12:26 PM
Oh Dan. The offense is much better this year. And Harbaugh/Smith's conservatism can take them to the SB. It practically did last year until Kyle Williams' non-conservatism stepped in.

We'll see. Hopefully Harbaugh isn't remembered as another Martyball kind of guy.

Borat
09-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Ughhhhh. Penalties. Dammit.

Ness
09-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Seriously, are you really comparing a 35 year old Randy Moss to Megatron and Rice in their prime? I'm done having this conversation with you. CK just granted your wish. Luckily it wasn't picked because it should have been.

If Rice is 35 I'm throwing deep and giving him a chance at some point.

And yes they finally tried it and Randy Moss almost had the catch he just flat out dropped it. It wasn't almost picked. Please don't make me create a gif later.

Ness
09-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Manningham looked explosive on that reverse.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 12:39 PM
If Rice is 35 I'm throwing deep and giving him a chance at some point.

And yes they finally tried it and Randy Moss almost had the catch he just flat out dropped it. It wasn't almost picked. Please don't make me create a gif later.

If you really believe he almost had a catch, your more dense than I even realized.

Ness
09-30-2012, 12:40 PM
If you really believe he almost had a catch, your more dense than I even realized.

Feel the same way about yourself bro.

Borat
09-30-2012, 12:42 PM
Easy guys.

Kaepernick!!!!

Madirishman
09-30-2012, 12:53 PM
Love to see Smith's adjustments at the line, shot taken to Moss, Manningham and Kap involved in the offense, with Kap "out-Tebowing" the holiest one.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-30-2012, 01:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmJcUlrkMNg#t=1m29s

Moss dis Moss dat Moss dis Moss dat.

Borat
09-30-2012, 01:08 PM
Yay more penalties. Feels like we're the Raiders right now.

And Lee with a crappy punt. Too many mistakes guys.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 01:37 PM
Not a pretty first half but 210 offensive yards and a 10-point lead, with a missed field goal, is better than last week.

Madirishman
09-30-2012, 01:39 PM
Niners should be up 20-0 right now. Last drive before half was going well and they settled for 3 points. They should have at least taken ONE shot at getting the TD. Time to step on the throat of this flailing Jets team and pile up some points in the 3rd quarter, putting these guys away.

Brent
09-30-2012, 01:44 PM
This game is ugly, we should not be in it. A testament to just how good our defense is today.

Borat
09-30-2012, 01:50 PM
This game is ugly, we should not be in it. A testament to just how good our defense is today.

Also, Sanchez.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 02:00 PM
I'm not thrilled with the play-calling on 2nd and medium, 3rd and medium. And Alex has missed a few deep throws. Gotta conncect on those. It's like Alex only has touch deep when he's throwing to VD.

Borat
09-30-2012, 02:32 PM
Man, I hope Hunter gets in the endzone. He's been awesome today.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 02:34 PM
Man, I LOVE the way Hunter runs. And you can tell he's learned from Gore. Much more patience following his blocks and allowing lanes to open up this year versus last. He makes me think every run is going to be huge gain, as he explodes through a crease.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Awwww ****, Fox switched my game to the Panthers-Falcons.

Borat
09-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Awwww ****, Fox switched my game to the Panthers-Falcons.

We blocked a punt. Twas awesome.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Has Jimbaugh pulled the startes yet? Don't want another Josh Morgan-freak injury repeat to another valuable starter.

Justone2
09-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Yeah the Jets just thought they didn't need to block so Grant had an wide open lane and blocked it with his chest.

Borat
09-30-2012, 02:54 PM
Has Jimbaugh pulled the startes yet? Don't want another Josh Morgan-freak injury repeat to another valuable starter.

Yeah, he just did.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 03:00 PM
And the Hawks lost to the Rams....is that karma or just a nice upset by Fisher's boys? Be nice if the 'fins could pull off a upset as well.

Borat
09-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Seahawks should be 1-3.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 03:32 PM
Passing offense still needs work. Thought we were on track after the Lions game but they've seemed to have regressed these last two weeks. 3rd down offense is still a problem. Seems like we get too cute on 3rd downs. Just run plays that give Alex plenty of options and a outlet short. And if its a run, enough with the jumbo package on every short yardage play. I'd like to see some play-action in those instances. Use our success running the ball against defenses in some of those instances. I like the little run to Hunter on 3rd and 4. Considering the one-high safety, that was a perfect check to by Alex. Too many times it seems like we're calling plays that are designed to get just enough to for a first instead of just running our normal offense. So if three is one little hiccup on the play, it usually falls short. Alex with only a 143 yards passing.....Jimbaugh and Roman HAVE to wake-up this passing offense.

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:36 PM
God, I don't want even look at the third down statistics of this game.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 03:38 PM
Not really worried about the passing game. Alex had that one bad overthrow of Crabtree but was otherwise fairly on-target, had three drops today. He was 9/13 for like 110 yards at halftime and then just didn't have to throw

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:40 PM
So we're all on board the "Alex doesn't get any credit for the win as per usual" train...right? o.O

Honestly Borat I couldn't tell if you were being facetious in the other thread.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't give him much credit for today's win, honestly. Like I said in the week four thread, I could have played QB and won that game

phlysac
09-30-2012, 03:44 PM
We'll see. Hopefully Harbaugh isn't remembered as another Martyball kind of guy.

Harbaugh proudly endorses Bo Schembechler as his football mentor, outside of his father. Look at Schembechler's philosophy.

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Right but, as per usual?

Borat
09-30-2012, 03:44 PM
So we're all on board the "Alex doesn't get any credit for the win as per usual" train...right? o.O

Honestly Borat I couldn't tell if you were being facetious in the other thread.

Honestly, I just can't put up with Brodeur's antics anymore, so I just tried to appease him.

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:45 PM
Harbaugh proudly endorses Bo Schembechler as his football mentor, outside of his father. Look at Schembechler's philosophy.

Whatever. Just get another ring for this franchise.

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Honestly, I just can't put up with Brodeur's antics anymore, so I just tried to appease him.

Brodeur talks about Smith?

Borat
09-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Brodeur talks about Smith?

He hates me, so he just comes at me with the opposite of whatever I say. It used to be amusing, but now it's just an irritant.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 03:47 PM
If Rice is 35 I'm throwing deep and giving him a chance finally tried it and Randy Moss almost had the catch he just flat out dropped it.

Wow! I don't even.


Kaeperscuses, I guess.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Not really worried about the passing game. Alex had that one bad overthrow of Crabtree but was otherwise fairly on-target, had three drops today. He was 9/13 for like 110 yards at halftime and then just didn't have to throw

He missed 3 deep balls...two to Crabs and one to MM where they totally beat Kyle Wilson. He HAS to make those throws for this offense to take the next step. He also missed Moss on a seam route that looked like a sure TD on that pass to Walker around the 10 yard line. His deep touch to anyone other than VD still looks shaky. He has to hit at least one of those. To miss all three is not good when your trying to convince defenses that your QB is capable of making you pay. He has to step it up. He wasn't bad but those are a plays you have to make if you have SB aspirations. And it wasn't like there was great coverage so he had to be pinpoint. Those guys had the defender clearly beat.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 03:50 PM
He missed 3 deep balls...two to Crabs and one to MM where they totally beat Kyle Wilson. He HAS to make those throws for this offense to take the next step. He also missed on a seam route that looked like a sure TD on that pass to Walker around the 10 yard line. His deep touch to anyone other than VD still looks shaky. He has to hit at least one of those. To miss all three is not good when your trying to convince defenses that your QB is capable of making you pay. He has to step it up. He wasn't bad but those are a plays you have to make if you have SB aspirations. And it wasn't like there was great coverage so he had to be pinpoint. Those guys had the defender clearly beat.

One was a PI, one was overthrown, one was a shaky stab by Manningham. Agree that THE TEAM needs those plays, but they're not all on Alex.

Alex needs better timing on the deeps. Perhaps if they threw them more? But lets not forget Crabs had pass off his hands, two off his chest, and DWalk had one off his facemask.

Inconsistency in the passing game has spreadable blame.

Borat
09-30-2012, 03:51 PM
Yep. They probably haven't been looking deep prior to today because Alex has always struggled with his deep accuracy.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 03:55 PM
Yep. They probably haven't been looking deep prior to today because Alex has always struggled with his deep accuracy.

Andrew Luck is an all-time accurate QB and Harbaugh rarely had him throw deep.

Borat
09-30-2012, 03:55 PM
Do you disagree about Alex's deep accuracy?

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 03:58 PM
He missed 3 deep balls...two to Crabs and one to MM where they totally beat Kyle Wilson. He HAS to make those throws for this offense to take the next step. He also missed Moss on a seam route that looked like a sure TD on that pass to Walker around the 10 yard line. His deep touch to anyone other than VD still looks shaky. He has to hit at least one of those. To miss all three is not good when your trying to convince defenses that your QB is capable of making you pay. He has to step it up. He wasn't bad but those are a plays you have to make if you have SB aspirations. And it wasn't like there was great coverage so he had to be pinpoint. Those guys had the defender clearly beat.

What phylsac said, he only really missed one of those.

I don't think his deep accuracy is all that bad. It isn't great but it is at least average. The 49ers offense just doesn't go deep.

Ness
09-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Wow! I don't even.


Kaeperscuses, I guess.

I wasn't blaming Kaepernick.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 03:59 PM
One was a PI, one was overthrown, one was a shaky stab by Manningham. Agree that THE TEAM needs those plays, but they're not all on Alex.

I'm not talking about the p/i one....there was another two to Crabs that Alex overthrew. And it wasn't a shaky stab, if the ball was where its supposed to be, that's six points. You can't put that on MM, it was clearly overthrown. And yes, they are on Alex. When he makes plays, I defend him. We he misses plays, I criticize. Nothing more, nothing less. If we had been playing any QB other than Sanchez, this game could have have a totally different outcome. It's the QBs job to put the ball where his guys can make plays. He had a clean pocket on those throws. His WRs clearly had their defender beat. No excuses, those plays need to be converted. At least one of them. You have to see that.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:00 PM
He hates me, so he just comes at me with the opposite of whatever I say. It used to be amusing, but now it's just an irritant.

Weird, I didn't even see you guys bickering in the thread. Meh.

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm not talking about the p/i one....there was another two to Crabs that Alex overthrew. And it wasn't a shaky stab, if the ball was where its supposed to be, that's six points. You can't put that on MM, it was clearly overthrown. And yes, they are on Alex. When he makes plays, I defend him. We he misses plays, I criticize. Nothing more, nothing less. If we had been playing any QB other than Sanchez, this game could have have a totally different outcome. It's the QBs job to put the ball where his guys can make plays. He had a clean pocket on those throws. His WRs clearly had their defender beat. No excuses, those plays need to be converted. At least one of them. You have to see that.

Agree 100%. Those were overthrows.

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:02 PM
Weird, I didn't even see you guys bickering in the thread. Meh.

I have to ignore him most of the time. He's just a contrarian and I hate e-arguing.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:03 PM
I'm not talking about the p/i one....there was another two to Crabs that Alex overthrew. And it wasn't a shaky stab, if the ball was where its supposed to be, that's six points. You can't put that on MM, it was clearly overthrown. And yes, they are on Alex. When he makes plays, I defend him. We he misses plays, I criticize. Nothing more, nothing less. If we had been playing any QB other than Sanchez, this game could have have a totally different outcome. It's the QBs job to put the ball where his guys can make plays. He had a clean pocket on those throws. His WRs clearly had their defender beat. No excuses, those plays need to be converted. At least one of them. You have to see that.

Meh. Could have been worse. Cassel or Fitzpatrick might have thrown a pick. Gabbert too maybe?

But yeah, those deep throws need to be worked on. I don't know if Alex can improve his deep ball accuracy, but...he needs to do something. I'm glad they at least tried attacking down the field every so often instead of well, just not doing it.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:05 PM
I wasn't blaming Kaepernick.
Exactly. What would you have said if Alex threw a bomb into triple coverage?

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:06 PM
Meh. Could have been worse. Cassel or Fitzpatrick might have thrown a pick. Gabbert too maybe?

But yeah, those deep throws need to be worked on. I don't know if Alex can improve his deep ball accuracy, but...he needs to do something. I'm glad they at least tried attacking down the field every so often instead of well, just not doing it.

They may not have connected on the deep throws, but that really opened up the middle of the field which is the important side-effect of stretching the defense deep.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 04:07 PM
What phylsac said, he only really missed one of those.

I don't think his deep accuracy is all that bad. It isn't great but it is at least average. The 49ers offense just doesn't go deep.

I understand that and accept that. What do you think me and Ness having been arguing about in regards to taking deep shots to Moss? But when we DO go deep....and two of those throws were more intermediate touch throws that could have gone for huge gains because it was man coverage, you need your QB to make them pay for going one-on-one versus your playmakers. That's the reason we brought them here....to beat man coverage, which they did. Their QB failed to do his part and deliver a catchable ball in those instances.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:07 PM
And it wasn't a shaky stab, if the ball was where its supposed to be, that's six points. You can't put that on MM, it was clearly overthrown.

I disagree. It wasn't a "drop" but timing is so very, very important on those throws. It hit Manningham's hand in-stride. It was "almost" perfectly thrown, and then you consider the speed lost when Manningham had to hand-fight Wilson.

There's a difference between barely missing on a bomb or completely overthrowing a bomb.

Agree that connnections need to be made, but I'm not blaming a bad throw IN THAT INSTANCE.

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:08 PM
I really hope we get Manningham more touches. He looks dangerous out there.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Hey Smith 11.9 yards per pass today.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:10 PM
Exactly. What would you have said if Alex threw a bomb into triple coverage?

That Moss didn't haul in the pass. Just like I said here.

Don't know what you're getting at. :confuse:

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Yep. 11.9/pass. 284 yards rushing. 34-0 victory. Sadly we're spending our time arguing QB play. :(

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:12 PM
Yep. 11.9/pass. 284 yards rushing. 34-0 victory. Sadly we're spending our time arguing QB play. :(

I tried to switch it to Manningham! lol.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Meh. Could have been worse. Cassel or Fitzpatrick might have thrown a pick. Gabbert too maybe?

But yeah, those deep throws need to be worked on. I don't know if Alex can improve his deep ball accuracy, but...he needs to do something. I'm glad they at least tried attacking down the field every so often instead of well, just not doing it.

The thing is, after seeing Alex deliver beautiful touch passes to VD during the playoffs last year, I thought Alex had turned a corner in his accuracy and touch. But it seems if its not VD, his touch disappears. He threw a nice touch pass to VD today. I don't know if he just trust VD more so he just throws it up and worries less but its evident he doesn't posses that same touch to other WRs.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Well anyways, I'm going to be in China and Macau for the next three games. I might be able to see them via streams though. I can always torrent them later.

The Bills come here next. Should be a win and more turnovers for our defense. Fitzpatrick is trigger happy.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:15 PM
The thing is, after seeing Alex deliver beautiful touch passes to VD during the playoffs last year, I thought Alex had turned a corner in his accuracy and touch. But it seems if its not VD, his touch disappears. He threw a nice touch pass to VD today. I don't know if he just trust VD more so he just throws it up and worries less but its evident he doesn't posses that same touch to other WRs.

Well he's been around Davis a very long time. Maybe that has something to do with it.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2012, 04:15 PM
I understand that and accept that. What do you think me and Ness having been arguing about in regards to taking deep shots to Moss? But when we DO go deep....and two of those throws were more intermediate touch throws that could have gone for huge gains because it was man coverage, you need your QB to make them pay for going one-on-one versus your playmakers. That's the reason we brought them here....to beat man coverage, which they did. Their QB failed to do his part and deliver a catchable ball in those instances.

I felt that Smith dropped it in perfectly to Manningham. Manningham had just been held, which wouldn't have even mattered if he hadn't started running to the middle of the field instead of staying on the sideline. The one the Crabtree was a huge overthrow, though. No excuses

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:15 PM
The thing is, after seeing Alex deliver beautiful touch passes to VD during the playoffs last year, I thought Alex had turned a corner in his accuracy and touch. But it seems if its not VD, his touch disappears. He threw a nice touch pass to VD today. I don't know if he just trust VD more so he just throws it up and worries less but its evident he doesn't posses that same touch to other WRs.
I absolutely agree. There HAS to be some accountability outside of the QB if he is deadly accurate to one guy but often "just misses" to others.

Again, I say "some" accountability. Not "all."

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:19 PM
I'm just stumped why Delanie Walker and Bruce Miller were targeted 5 times more than VD and Moss, combined.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:20 PM
Well he's been around Davis a very long time. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I agree that continuity and familiarity and reps have a TON to do with it.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 04:22 PM
I disagree. It wasn't a "drop" but timing is so very, very important on those throws. It hit Manningham's hand in-stride. It was "almost" perfectly thrown, and then you consider the speed lost when Manningham had to hand-fight Wilson.

There's a difference between barely missing on a bomb or completely overthrowing a bomb.

Agree that connnections need to be made, but I'm not blaming a bad throw IN THAT INSTANCE.

It hit Manningham's hand(not plural). And he had to leap to get that one hand on it barely. Yes, timing is part of it but a open WR streaking down the sidelines shouldn't require a after practice throwing session. Most starting NFL QBs should make that throw, 9 times out of 10. I'm not putting it all of it on Alex. I'm not happy with the play-calling to some extent too. But those 3 throws are ones I expect Alex to make. He didn't make them.

binary
09-30-2012, 04:26 PM
Well he's been around Davis a very long time. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I also think it's because VD is so strong, his speed and body don't't get altered by any contact. On his overthrows today, there was always contact between Wr and DB, and Alex missed by a hair.

I was more upset with those sacks Alex took, the overthrows were more of a team breakdown. Can't be taking those drive killing sacks.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 04:34 PM
I absolutely agree. There HAS to be some accountability outside of the QB if he is deadly accurate to one guy but often "just misses" to others.

Again, I say "some" accountability. Not "all."

But that's a slippery slope. So I have to wait for 5 year before Alex develops that same touch with other WRs? That doesn't strike you as odd? It shouldn't be that difficult a task is all I'm saying. I see different QBs balling with back-up WRs, new additions just activated or picked up off the waiver wire every week that they haven't had much time with. Alex is just not very accurate the longer the ball is in the air. That's the bottom line. Doesn't mean we can't win with him but let's call it what it is.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 04:35 PM
It hit Manningham's hand(not plural). And he had to leap to get that one hand on it barely. Yes, timing is part of it but a open WR streaking down the sidelines shouldn't require a after practice throwing session. Most starting NFL QBs should make that throw, 9 times out of 10. I'm not putting it all of it on Alex. I'm not happy with the play-calling to some extent too. But those 3 throws are ones I expect Alex to make. He didn't make them.

So, in your opinion, Manningham, slowing to hand-fight Kyle Wilson and taking a stride inside, didn't interrupt the timing? It was still a poor pass?

I agree it'd be nice to hit some long ones, but the degree of difficulty is high. The elite miss by inches on those balls regularly. Two differences. 1. Alex is not yet elite and 2. the 49ers don't throw nearly as many as most elite QB teams do.

VAfy-ya
09-30-2012, 04:43 PM
So, in your opinion, Manningham, slowing to hand-fight Kyle Wilson and taking a stride inside, didn't interrupt the timing? It was still a poor pass?

I agree it'd be nice to hit some long ones, but the degree of difficulty is high. The elite miss by inches on those balls regularly. Two differences. 1. Alex is not yet elite and 2. the 49ers don't throw nearly as many as most elite QB teams do.

All I'm saying is call a spade a spade. Alex touch and accuracy still leaves a lot to be desired and is something he is STILL struggling with. That's the only point I'm trying to convey really.

And the hand-fighting didn't stop MM's momentum. He was still running, in stride and had both hands free to make a play on the ball IF the ball is put where he could make a play on it.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:53 PM
Smith should have had a couple of touchdowns today in those throws. Or at least long gains. Hopefully it was either a day where he just didn't have good touch on those long throws and/or he isn't familiar with his other targets. He hasn't thrown the ball deep enough to everywhere else to make a definitive judgment I think.

Borat
09-30-2012, 04:54 PM
Offensive line was dominant in the run game. Oh, and Frank is just damn awesome. I love that guy so much. Great 49er.

Ness
09-30-2012, 04:56 PM
I built up enough courage to look at our 3rd down percentage from today.

4/12. 33%. Oy. That's not good. The offense needs to do better on third downs. Still a weak area.

It would be great if we could flirt around 40% for the season.

phlysac
09-30-2012, 05:06 PM
I'm just kind of smirking at this thought...

Alex Smith has a weak arm.

Alex Smith always overthrows the deep ball.

I remember Ben Roethlisberger saying how great it was to have Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown because it was nearly impossible to overthrow them.

For having such a weak arm on deep throws, Alex seems to have no problem.


There's more to it than just Smith's accuracy. Does he deserve blame? Yes, absolutely, but there is blame to go around.

Borat
09-30-2012, 05:10 PM
Alex Smith topic change attempt #3:

Patrick Willis missed a tackle today. Obviously, he sucks now.

farfromforgotten
09-30-2012, 11:19 PM
Alex Smith topic change attempt #3:

Patrick Willis missed a tackle today. Obviously, he sucks now.

lol. Call me old school but all I care about is wins and losses. I didn't get to see the game today, but when I got home and saw we won 34-0 on the road, on the East Coast, at another NFL teams home field... well, I was all smiles.

Drew Brees is a great QB. The Saints are 0-4. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB. The Packers are 2-2. Alex Smith is our QB and we're 3-1. Would I take either of those guys over Alex as our starting QB? Absolutely. Do I think either of those guys would put up the same type of numbers in our offense that they do now in their respective offenses? Absolutely not. Is my asking and answering my own questions annoying? Probably.

I know, I know, I know. We have a great defense and special teams and those guys don't, but whatever... All I care about is wins. Have I mentioned that? And since Harbaugh has been here, and it hasn't always been pretty, but this team usually finds a way to win. 16-4 in 20 regular season games? Yes, please. I'm confident that this team can beat any team in the league on any given Sunday. It might always be by Alex "managing" the game, or whatever you want to call it, and playing stellar D and special teams. Occasionally it might be by Alex going all BA and ripping a team like the Saints in the playoffs last year. (lol) I believe that this team will find a way to win games. It's a good feeling for me, anyways...

Who's next? I'm ready for next week already!

Ness
09-30-2012, 11:28 PM
Only three points off those turnovers for the offense. Got to do better.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 12:28 AM
lol. Call me old school but all I care about is wins and losses. I didn't get to see the game today, but when I got home and saw we won 34-0 on the road, on the East Coast, at another NFL teams home field... well, I was all smiles.

Drew Brees is a great QB. The Saints are 0-4. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB. The Packers are 2-2. Alex Smith is our QB and we're 3-1. Would I take either of those guys over Alex as our starting QB? Absolutely. Do I think either of those guys would put up the same type of numbers in our offense that they do now in their respective offenses? Absolutely not. Is my asking and answering my own questions annoying? Probably.

I know, I know, I know. We have a great defense and special teams and those guys don't, but whatever... All I care about is wins. Have I mentioned that? And since Harbaugh has been here, and it hasn't always been pretty, but this team usually finds a way to win. 16-4 in 20 regular season games? Yes, please. I'm confident that this team can beat any team in the league on any given Sunday. It might always be by Alex "managing" the game, or whatever you want to call it, and playing stellar D and special teams. Occasionally it might be by Alex going all BA and ripping a team like the Saints in the playoffs last year. (lol) I believe that this team will find a way to win games. It's a good feeling for me, anyways...

Who's next? I'm ready for next week already!

Believe me, I only care about wins. We won today and Im grateful. But I'm a 'big picture' kind of guy. Our division is the toughest in football this year. Points and plays will be hard to come by versus defenses like the 'Hawks and Cards. If were gearing up to make a post-season run, we'll have to face Philly's pass-rush and a have to keep up pace with the weapons the Falcons posses on the outside. So yes, we won today and I'm grateful. But I'm not naive enough to think we still don't have problems offensively we need to work on and improve if we ever ntend on getting further than we did last year. We won't run for over 250 yards every week and have the defense to bail us out with 4 turnovers. So yeah, it concerns me when I see us to start to regress offensively and we still can't seem to covert 3rd downs at a respectable clip. That we are still having red-zone issues. That my QB is still exhibiting accuracy issues on his touch throws. Doesn't mean I think the sky is falling. But yea, it concerns me that we've invested time, money, and players to these issues and yet they are still present. It's much too early to panic but its nothing wrong with dialogue and critique, even with a "W".

Our passing game needs to be better going forward. I think any fan of The Faithful could agree to that much. It's not merely a QB issue but the QB was mostly the culprit today, from my perspective. When we played the Lions, it was the WRs dropping a ton of catchable passes that was the problem. Next week, it may be the O-Line. My point is, its always something......and that needs to change rather quickly. You don't get many opportunities with a team this stacked on both sides of the ball. There needs to be a bit more sense of urgency in Jimbaugh and the players to get the passing game on track. Not saying that they aren't working at it but with a whole off-season, another full training camp and with most of the key players in their second year of the scheme, I expected we'd be further along than what we have shown thus far.

Ness
10-01-2012, 05:32 AM
Smith needs to have that dominant game against a good team where he takes control of the offense and has essentially a Hall of Fame type of performance. I'm not sure if Harbaugh's offense will ever let him have that chance though. Either that or the coaching staff just doesn't have confidence to let Smith dictate the game. I will say that it seemed like that is what they tried to do last week early against the Vikings, but it never developed.

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 06:07 AM
Look at it like this, only four of the quarterbacks in the top 16 in passing yards this year have a winning record. Only five of the top 20 in pass attempts have a winning record.

Ness
10-01-2012, 06:25 AM
Look at it like this, only four of the quarterbacks in the top 16 in passing yards this year have a winning record. Only five of the top 20 in pass attempts have a winning record.

Eh. It's a team sport. Doesn't Vince Young still have a winning record as a starter?

The 49ers are winning because of their stellar defense and run game for the most part. You put Drew Brees on this team and it's scary good. You put Smith on the current Saints team and it's worse than it already is. This would be the perfect situation for a lot of quarterbacks. Alex doesn't really have to carry the team to win. It is what it is. I don't know how long the 49ers can keep this up year after year in this day and age where the majority of the teams in the playoffs every season revolve around good quarterback play. That's the only issue. A sputtering passing attack is a really bad omen to have. Really though, the entire passing offense needs to get it's act together. It's kind of annoying having to cringe every time the ball is thrown.

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 06:46 AM
I don't even think the passing offense was that bad yesterday. It was bad against the Vikings but yesterday it seemed like they were just incredibly lackadaisical, like they did most of last season. Smith has proven that he can pass when we really need him to repeatedly since last season; Eagles, Bengals, first game against the Giants, Saints and I could name more instances; and has rarely lost us a game when it was on his shoulders.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 08:39 AM
Look at it like this, only four of the quarterbacks in the top 16 in passing yards this year have a winning record. Only five of the top 20 in pass attempts have a winning record.

Thats not the point right now. If you think we can continue to have our starting QB throw for 143 yards and win games going away your crazy. Im not saying trade Alex for a QB in the top 4 in passing. I'm saying we need to fix what's obviously broke.

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 08:53 AM
We can't win most games with Alex throwing for 143 yards but we could win yesterday's game 10/10 times with a QB throwing for 143 yards. We are 3-1 right now, 16-4 in the regular season dating back to last year and 19-5 in games Alex Smith has played >half dating back to 2010 after the Eagles debacle. The passing only when we need to is working. And when we have needed to pass we have done so pretty well for the most part.

YAYareaRB
10-01-2012, 11:46 AM
for all the big picture guys.. Number 11 is buying time for number 7. If hes doing it while winning, double win!!

dan77733
10-01-2012, 12:08 PM
The passing game is non-existent. What makes this even worse than it already is, is the fact that we added a lot more weapons in the passing game in addition to who we already have. Quite honestly, its pathetic.

The play-calling needs to improve and be more aggressive. And I dont know about others but im sick of seeing that power run crap with two DT's or whatever because the defense already knows what's coming. Us going for that TD on 4th and goal with that power run would have pissed me off if we didnt score a TD but majority of the time, that doesnt work. In short, this "cute" crap needs to go.

I want to see more screens, inside slants (they work almost every time in every game with every team) and more shots downfield. The pass from Kaepernick to Moss was there but it was a combination of Moss trying to one arm it and the defender's arm knocking it out of his grasp. Even if that gets picked, I wouldnt have minded because at least the offense is taking more shots downfield.

Forget last season. Its done and over with. Everyone can blame Kyle Williams for the loss in the NFCCG but I dont. I blame the crappy play-calling, that bullcrap call when Bradshaw fumbled and the fact that we had no passing offense whatsoever. If we had a legitimate passing attack, we would have blown out the Giants.

This is why the passing attack MUST become a threat because if it doesnt, we're not matching let alone surpassing what we did last year. Look at the Falcons, Texans, etc....their passing offense are threats and when we play teams with a balanced attack (unlike the Jets, Packers or Lions), we wont be able to match those teams unless we get turnovers and score TD's (not FG's) because we dont have the passing offense to match those other teams.

The passing game needs to become a legitimate threat in order for this team to be considered SB contenders. I personally dont consider this team to be that yet and I dont care about last season. The passing attack isnt even half as good as what it was with Garcia/Owens despite us having more weapons on offense.

As for Smith and his accuracy problems on deep passes, how will he ever improve his accuracy if Harbaugh never allows him to throw deep to begin with? If you're only throwing short and medium passes, you just wont be used to passing deep and thus, your touch and accuracy wont be there. Have to take more shots downfield and at least give Smith the chance to throw downfield.

Overall, very happy we shutout the Jets but at the same time, we were playing a team with an offense thats worse than ours. And would have liked Kaepernick to score at the end. I hate that "not running up the score crap", you have a chance to score, you score. Only time doing that is good is when the game is close and you want to win the game as time expires, etc. Otherwise, I run that score in and get another offensive TD on the board and get to 41 points. The one thing that still exists is that we keep teams within striking distance which I hate because eventually, its going to bite the team in the ass. We need more of a killer instinct. You have a team down, put their ass awa instead of just trying to "hold on" with a 10-0 lead. Honestly, I hate that and frustrates me to no end.

Hopefully, we'll beat the Bills and go into the Giants game 4-1. After the Bills, we have some very tough and important games including two divisional games. We need to get our offense on track for those three games before the bye week. BUF gave up 52 points including 45 (I think) in the second half. We need to score points, points and more points. And by more points, I mean TD's, not FG's.

I'm not trying to be negative here but our team is the same as last year. Good defense/running game/special teams but no passing attack and at times, crappy or predictable play-calling. Those areas need to be solved sooner rather than later.

dan77733
10-01-2012, 12:13 PM
As for Kaepernick, im actually looking forward to when he becomes our franchise QB. However, he needs he be a passer first and foremost with his running ability used if/when needed. If he can improve in his passing to where defenses MUST respect his dual threat ability, then, we'll have an awesome passing game.

binary
10-01-2012, 12:17 PM
Thats not the point right now. If you think we can continue to have our starting QB throw for 143 yards and win games .

Dude it was one game. Alex played great in the first two games, against really good teams. For some reason he's played worse against these two mediocre teams (although the Vikes might not be bad).

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 12:21 PM
CK did the smart thing. Why risk guys running downfield on another kick-off, blowing out a knee or tearing a ACL trying to make a ST tackle? Having a key reserve tear his triceps having to defend three meaningless offensive plays in garbage time? Injuries in this league are one fluke play away from happening, just ask Santonio Holmes. Smartest play I've seen from a young QB in quite some time. Who cares about hanging 41 on the Jets? The game was over. Nothing to gain there by running it in. Kid sacrificed a two TD run perforamnce. I was throughly impressed by his smarts and 'big picture' thought-process there.

49ersfan_87
10-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Dude it was one game. Alex played great in the first two games, against really good teams. For some reason he's played worse against these two mediocre teams (although the Vikes might not be bad).

Wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings and Jets have better secondaries than the Packers and injury decimated Lions.

dan77733
10-01-2012, 01:12 PM
CK did the smart thing. Why risk guys running downfield on another kick-off, blowing out a knee or tearing a ACL trying to make a ST tackle? Having a key reserve tear his triceps having to defend three meaningless offensive plays in garbage time? Injuries in this league are one fluke play away from happening, just ask Santonio Holmes. Smartest play I've seen from a young QB in quite some time. Who cares about hanging 41 on the Jets? The game was over. Nothing to gain there by running it in. Kid sacrificed a two TD run perforamnce. I was throughly impressed by his smarts and 'big picture' thought-process there.

And CK could have gotten injured just by running and sliding. With injuries, you never know when they will happen. The Jets probably would have kneeled down anyway in defeat. Personally, I would have liked to see CK score. Rather see that killer instinct and bury the team (which for us is rare) instead of just taking knees. You can look at it both ways but I prefer to score. I'm Belichick that way. :p

phlysac
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
The play-calling needs to improve and be more aggressive. And I dont know about others but im sick of seeing that power run crap

Then Harbaugh has to go. He has always been a conservative, power-running disciple of Bo Schembechler.

Execution needs to improve. But the emphasis on the pass game simply will NOT change under Harbaugh.

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Thought you guys might find this interesting,

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=&rank=098&year=

Third down conversions/passes on third down,

Alex Smith - 35.7%
Eli Manning - 34.2%
Can Newton - 36%
Tom Brady - 38.2%
Joe Flacco - 35.3%

*Blames 49ers third down problems on Alex Smith*

49ers are also bottom 10, 24th, in YAC, and tied for second in the league with 10 dropped passes. Give the 49ers the median YAC (360) and dropped passes (5) and Alex Smith's adjusted numbers would be,

81/113 (72%)
~900 yards
8.0 Y/A
5 TD
1 INT
106 QB rating

phlysac
10-01-2012, 03:46 PM
The play-calling needs to improve and be more aggressive. And I dont know about others but im sick of seeing that power run crap

Then Harbaugh has to go. He has always been a conservative, power-running disciple of Bo Schembechler.

Execution needs to improve. But the emphasis on the pass game simply will NOT change under Harbaugh.

I want to see more inside slants (they work almost every time in every game with every team)
You mean like the 3 inside slants that were ran to Crabtree and Walker? All 3 were dropped.

The pass from Kaepernick to Moss was there
If being triple-covered is the definition of "there" then every single route EVER run by ANY receiver EVER, has been "there."

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 04:18 PM
Thought you guys might find this interesting,

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=&rank=098&year=

Third down conversions/passes on third down,

Alex Smith - 35.7%
Eli Manning - 34.2%
Can Newton - 36%
Tom Brady - 38.2%
Joe Flacco - 35.3%

*Blames 49ers third down problems on Alex Smith*


49ers are also bottom 10, 24th, in YAC, and tied for second in the league with 10 dropped passes. Give the 49ers the median YAC (360) and dropped passes (5) and Alex Smith's adjusted numbers would be,

81/113 (72%)
~900 yards
8.0 Y/A
5 TD
1 INT
106 QB rating

And this means what exactly? Because Brady and Eli are playing like crap on 3rd down, its ok for Alex to? I want better execution. From Alex to Roman, to the WRs....IT'S A 49ER ISSUE! I want the 49ers(all of them) to correct the problem because its been one for far too long. I could give two shits what Brady, Eli, or Flaaco are doing. No one is dumping the blame solely on Alex. But being the QB, he bares more of the burden. Nature of the position he plays. Every time someone says the slightest negative thing about Alex, you hop into the discussion with a bunch of raw numbers. Stats tell HALF of the tale. Anyone that has played any sport at a high level will tell you that. Sometimes you have to view things in the context in which they are transpiring. Saying Alex left some plays on the field Sunday doesn't mean everything is he's fault or that he's a awful QB. Please tell me your smarter than that.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 04:27 PM
And ppl are actually GLAD we threw into triple coverage to Moss just to say we did it? That's the most ass-backward logic I've seen from this fan-base in a long time. Especially considering CK missed a wide open guy underneath. If Alex would have threw up that wounded duck into triple coverage and it would have been picked, most would be talking **** about Alex's deep ball ability. How does throwing a ball into triple-coverage 'soften up' a defense other than them praying that you'll do it again?

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 04:31 PM
And this means what exactly? Because Brady and Eli are playing like crap on 3rd down, its ok for Alex to? I want better execution. From Alex to Roman, to the WRs....IT'S A 49ER ISSUE! I want the 49ers(all of them) to correct the problem because its been one for far too long. I could give two shits what Brady, Eli, or Flaaco are doing. No one is dumping the blame solely on Alex. But being the QB, he bares more of the burden. Nature of the position he plays. Every time someone says the slightest negative thing about Alex, you hop into the discussion with a bunch of raw numbers. Stats tell HALF of the tale. Anyone that has played any sport at a high level will tell you that. Sometimes you have to view things in the context in which they are transpiring. Saying Alex left some plays on the field Sunday doesn't mean everything is he's fault or that he's a awful QB. Please tell me your smarter than that.

I give Alex the blame he deserves, which has not been most of it this year. He obviously left a couple of plays on the field yesterday, he overthrew a wide open Crabtree for one, but he has not been the 49ers main problem on third down this year, he hasn't even been close to it.

But when the problems on third down, or with the offense in general, are brought up it is always on the passing game, particularly Alex Smith. People completely ignore that the running game is one of the worst in the league at converting on third down and short and that the receivers get almost no YAC and drop more passes per pass attempt than any other team in the NFL. The three dropped passes weren't even brought up until phylsac. His overthrow of Crabtree is mentioned tons but people ignore that Manningham not sticking to the sideline cost him a long gain.

It is always about Smith, though. Maybe not entirely on this board but even here he gets most of the blame when he clearly shouldn't. I don't like to see any player getting blamed for problems that aren't their fault.

I will be worried when Smith starts missing open receivers when the game is actually in jeopardy. Until then I am fine with having 110 passing yards at halftime but only finishing the game with 143 yards.

Ness
10-01-2012, 05:07 PM
And ppl are actually GLAD we threw into triple coverage to Moss just to say we did it? That's the most ass-backward logic I've seen from this fan-base in a long time. Especially considering CK missed a wide open guy underneath. If Alex would have threw up that wounded duck into triple coverage and it would have been picked, most would be talking **** about Alex's deep ball ability. How does throwing a ball into triple-coverage 'soften up' a defense other than them praying that you'll do it again?

I wouldn't. If it became a habit throwing into triple coverage, yes. But I'm glad to see the coaching staff actually try to have a play designed to go deep to a playmaker. We didn't have one last week.

And it's not just Moss. Manningham was open deep a few times and he was missed, but at least we tried to go deep. That's the important thing.

Ness
10-01-2012, 05:12 PM
Thats not the point right now. If you think we can continue to have our starting QB throw for 143 yards and win games going away your crazy. Im not saying trade Alex for a QB in the top 4 in passing. I'm saying we need to fix what's obviously broke.

Well, we need to also consider the possibility that this might be the Alex will ever get and we'll just have to tolerate it. There is a reason why he only got a three year deal. He hasn't shown, and might never show, that ability to just dominate a team. A good team. Other areas can be improved like receivers catch the ball and the run game actually working which will help Alex.

49ersfan_87
10-01-2012, 05:24 PM
And ppl are actually GLAD we threw into triple coverage to Moss just to say we did it? That's the most ass-backward logic I've seen from this fan-base in a long time. Especially considering CK missed a wide open guy underneath. If Alex would have threw up that wounded duck into triple coverage and it would have been picked, most would be talking **** about Alex's deep ball ability. How does throwing a ball into triple-coverage 'soften up' a defense other than them praying that you'll do it again?

Honestly, it seemed like a designed shot play to Moss. If he was covered, I bet Kaep was told to run with the ball.

I don't know for sure. But just watching the play, that was my guess.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 05:29 PM
I give Alex the blame he deserves, which has not been most of it this year. He obviously left a couple of plays on the field yesterday, he overthrew a wide open Crabtree for one, but he has not been the 49ers main problem on third down this year, he hasn't even been close to it.

But when the problems on third down, or with the offense in general, are brought up it is always on the passing game, particularly Alex Smith. People completely ignore that the running game is one of the worst in the league at converting on third down and short and that the receivers get almost no YAC and drop more passes per pass attempt than any other team in the NFL. The three dropped passes weren't even brought up until phylsac. His overthrow of Crabtree is mentioned tons but people ignore that Manningham not sticking to the sideline cost him a long gain.

It is always about Smith, though. Maybe not entirely on this board but even here he gets most of the blame when he clearly shouldn't. I don't like to see any player getting blamed for problems that aren't their fault


I will be worried when Smith starts missing open receivers when the game is actually in jeopardy. Until then I am fine with having 110 passing yards at halftime but only finishing the game with 143 yards.

The game was in jeopardy though. That makes ZERO sense. The game was still close midway through the 3rd quarter. Two of those passes came in the first half when the game was far from over. Your talking about the season as a whole. Let's focus on yesterday. Yesterday, I saw 3 passes that should be huge gains that Alex failed to deliver accurate passes. Thats legitimate criticism. I don't know where this talk about MM should have stuck to the sidelines is coming from, but I saw a guy running parrell to the sidelines trying to locate a ball that was overthrown. That's all my argument is....yesterday he didn't perform up to the standards I think he can. He himself said post-game that he HAS to make those throws work.

Most of ppl I see arguing about the 3rd down are focusing on play-calling and in particular, the conservative nature of said play-calling. I've rarely see anyone arguing 3rd down or the passing game is Alex fault. Most ppl are harping on Harbaugh/Roman for not being more aggressive with the weapons we have. Now some Alex-haters might use that against him as a testament to their faith in him as a QB, but most just want Jimbaugh to put his foot on the gas a little more.

Borat
10-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Running for 250 yards is so much fun.

Also, I'm going to be buying a few 9er jerseys soon and am contemplating on who to get.

For sure: Aldon Smith, Vernon Davis
Probable: Navorro Bowman
Questionable: Dashon Goldson, Kendall Hunter
Doubtful: Alex Smith
Never: Chilo Rachal, Replica Mike Nolan suit

Who would you guys go with?

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 05:34 PM
I wouldn't. If it became a habit throwing into triple coverage, yes. But I'm glad to see the coaching staff actually try to have a play designed to go deep to a playmaker. We didn't have one last week.

And it's not just Moss. Manningham was open deep a few times and he was missed, but at least we tried to go deep. That's the important thing.

My point is if that's all it takes to please us fans, we have some issues as fanbase. Alex could have been done that. Luckily, he actually like wants to complete a pass and move the chains as opposed to appeasing fans. Most of the time, its COVERAGE, not play-calling that determines whether the ball goes deep or not.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 05:37 PM
Running for 250 yards is so much fun.

Also, I'm going to be buying a few 9er jerseys soon and am contemplating on who to get.

For sure: Aldon Smith, Vernon Davis
Probable: Navorro Bowman
Questionable: Dashon Goldson, Kendall Hunter
Doubtful: Alex Smith
Never: Chilo Rachal, Replica Mike Nolan suit

Who would you guys go with?

Meh, I'm never buying a player's jersey. Too much turnover. Only customize ones. Waiting for NFL Shop to get the 'away' customizables up and running.

abaddon41_80
10-01-2012, 05:38 PM
Running for 250 yards is so much fun.

Also, I'm going to be buying a few 9er jerseys soon and am contemplating on who to get.

For sure: Aldon Smith, Vernon Davis
Probable: Navorro Bowman
Questionable: Dashon Goldson, Kendall Hunter
Doubtful: Alex Smith
Never: Chilo Rachal, Replica Mike Nolan suit

Who would you guys go with?

Bruce Miller. Gonna be on the team for a while and the perfect 49er. Plus he is #49

phlysac
10-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Gonna be on the team for a while and the perfect 49er. Plus he is #49

http://pauloccamacho.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/patrickwillis1.jpg

Borat
10-01-2012, 05:54 PM
http://pauloccamacho.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/patrickwillis1.jpg

Guess I should have mentioned I already have Willis. Although I don't have his Ole Miss jersey.

Borat
10-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Meh, I'm never buying a player's jersey. Too much turnover. Only customize ones. Waiting for NFL Shop to get the 'away' customizables up and running.

Normally I'm the same way. I can't really get too into it online, but these jerseys are top quality and yet, super cheap. I got to see them in person at the home opener. I'll just leave it at that lol.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 06:45 PM
My friend has a new Niner 'home' Wilis jersey. The Nike ones are really is much better quality than the Reebok ones. Only player jersey I want is 'a 94 throwback Rice 'home' jersey. But if you got the hook-up, by all means invest....

Menardo75
10-01-2012, 07:28 PM
Am I the only person that thinks it's sad that people on here complain after a win more than after a loss? This is ridiculous. The Niners just scored their first road shut out since 2001 and all a couple people on here want to do is *****. I felt like the Niners won last week on here after the Vikings game.

Borat
10-01-2012, 08:09 PM
My friend has a new Niner 'home' Wilis jersey. The Nike ones are really is much better quality than the Reebok ones. Only player jersey I want is 'a 94 throwback Rice 'home' jersey. But if you got the hook-up, by all means invest....

Yeah I'm getting the Nike jersey. So much better quality.

I think they have the '94 Rice throwback lol.

The investment is practically nothing which is the only reason I'm doing it. I usually stay away from jerseys except for Willis and even then, I waited until he signed his extension. Honestly, if my friend hadn't successfully bought from them 3 previous times, I'd think it was a scam.

Borat
10-01-2012, 08:45 PM
Did you guys hear Dallas playing "Tony Montana"? That's our damn song. Also, ... my ringtone.

Ness
10-01-2012, 08:47 PM
My point is if that's all it takes to please us fans, we have some issues as fanbase. Alex could have been done that. Luckily, he actually like wants to complete a pass and move the chains as opposed to appeasing fans. Most of the time, its COVERAGE, not play-calling that determines whether the ball goes deep or not.

Wait what? So Drew Brees and Tom Brady don't want to complete passes and move the chains when they throw the ball deep?

Wait what? So teams that throw the ball deep a good amount more than the 49ers means that they're going up against opponents that don't play tight coverage on the back end? Man the 49ers are really unlucky then. Perhaps the 49ers offense just isn't recognizing their big play opportunities and want to play it safe? No that wouldn't make sense at all.

There is nothing wrong with being critical of your passing offense as a fan that doesn't seem as explosive compared to other passing offenses around the league. You can be satisfied with mediocrity, but I won't stand for it.

This week was an improvement as the 49ers actually tried taking shots down the field compared the previous week against the Vikings. And it doesn't even have to do with just Randy Moss being on the team. 4 passes over twenty yards attempted coming into this week's game against the Jets, last in the league, strikes me as pedestrian. Sorry.

Ness
10-01-2012, 08:59 PM
By the way ever since the 49ers lost, I've noticed most media outlets have the Jets losing being a bigger story than the 49ers winning. Can't say I mind. I actually like it when the media doesn't talk too much about the franchise.

By the way when is Ahmad Brooks going to get recognized? EVERY time I hear a media head talk about the 49ers saying how great their linebackers are it's something along the lines of "This defensive group of linebackers will knock you around. Patrick Willis, Bowman, and Smith are all just monsters. And that secondary is..."

Brooks has been great this season so far. I haven't heard one shoutout though from the major media folks, when they actually do decide to talk about San Francisco.

dan77733
10-01-2012, 09:12 PM
Then Harbaugh has to go. He has always been a conservative, power-running disciple of Bo Schembechler.

Execution needs to improve. But the emphasis on the pass game simply will NOT change under Harbaugh.

You mean like the 3 inside slants that were ran to Crabtree and Walker? All 3 were dropped.

If being triple-covered is the definition of "there" then every single route EVER run by ANY receiver EVER, has been "there."

Being conservative will only get you so far. Eventually, you have to be aggressive here and there. Cant be conservative all the damn time. I like Harbaugh and is the best HC we've had since Seifert (yes, better than Mooch) but the one thing that killed Mooch was the lack of aggression. Harbaugh has to be more aggressive. Not every play but when the chances are there, take the shot down field.

I agree about the execution needing to improve but the play-calling needs to improve as well. I'm not looking for a Packers/Saints/Texans/Falcons/Giants passing attack but it has to improve from what it is. There will be games where we'll have to pass (like last week) in order to win and we wont those games if the passing attack doesnt improve. Cant win every game depending on the running game, defense and special teams. Must start having some offense.

There should be MORE inside slants but NOT to Walker. Seriously, come on. Crabtree, Manningham and Williams should be getting the inside slant plays. Not Walker. UGH.

Moss was triple covered and STILL had a chance to catch the ball. I dont want to see Smith/Kaepernick throw into triple coverage all the time but a shot here and there to Moss is okay by me because even if it gets picked, its all the way on the other side of the field so its worth the shot. Have to take some shots down the field or the passing (and running game) will never open up.

Everyone here says that we lost in the NFCCG because of the two fumbles by Williams but thats not why - its because we had no ******* passing offense whatsoever. If we did, we would have blown the Giants out.

Look at the teams that have won the SB in the last decade -

Giants
Packers
Saints
Steelers
Giants
Colts
Steelers
Patriots
Patriots
Buccaneers

If you subtract the passing attack from the SB winners, I would say that they all lose except for the Buccaneers and the Giants in 2007 even though it was Eli who won them both games. People always say defense wins championships but thats such crap because except for the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Buccaneers, its always been offense.

We have the defense, special teams and running game. If we can get our passing game to be at least respected by defenses, then we'll be a complete team and able to win every game in every/any way.

I dont think thats asking too much.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 10:15 PM
By the way ever since the 49ers lost, I've noticed most media outlets have the Jets losing being a bigger story than the 49ers winning. Can't say I mind. I actually like it when the media doesn't talk too much about the franchise.

By the way when is Ahmad Brooks going to get recognized? EVERY time I hear a media head talk about the 49ers saying how great their linebackers are it's something along the lines of "This defensive group of linebackers will knock you around. Patrick Willis, Bowman, and Smith are all just monsters. And that secondary is..."

Brooks has been great this season so far. I haven't heard one shoutout though from the major media folks, when they actually do decide to talk about San Francisco.

Is Brooks a Pro Bowler?

Is Brooks a All-Pro?

Is Brooks statistically, a dominant player?

That's why Brooks doesn't get mention. Same way Ice doesn't get mention. Same way Ray Mac doesn't get mention. Just like no one mentioned the stellar performance of RJF Sunday. When you play on a defense full of Pro Bowlers and All-Pros your going to get overlooked, no matter how good you are. Brooks has gotten his props. FO and PFF had nice write-ups about his play during the off-season as one of the catalyst as to why our defense took off. But the sports analyst and ESPN are rarely going to mention his or anybody else's name who isn't Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, Willis, Bowman, Goldson, Rogers, or Whitner.

VAfy-ya
10-01-2012, 10:32 PM
Wait what? So Drew Brees and Tom Brady don't want to complete passes and move the chains when they throw the ball deep?

Wait what? So teams that throw the ball deep a good amount more than the 49ers means that they're going up against opponents that don't play tight coverage on the back end? Man the 49ers are really unlucky then. Perhaps the 49ers offense just isn't recognizing their big play opportunities and want to play it safe? No that wouldn't make sense at all.

There is nothing wrong with being critical of your passing offense as a fan that doesn't seem as explosive compared to other passing offenses around the league. You can be satisfied with mediocrity, but I won't stand for it.

This week was an improvement as the 49ers actually tried taking shots down the field compared the previous week against the Vikings. And it doesn't even have to do with just Randy Moss being on the team. 4 passes over twenty yards attempted coming into this week's game against the Jets, last in the league, strikes me as pedestrian. Sorry.

And I guess us and the Saints share the same offensively philosophy as well right? Or maybe you don't see Brees throwing into double-coverage often and getting burned for it. Then again, he has a mis-match in Graham who can physically bail him out bad decisions. Moss isn't that kind of mis-match anymore. I don't understand why anyone believes throwing the ball into triple coverage to guy that is a shell of his former self is something positive. If Megatron was a Niner, I could totally see your point. Physical specimen in his prime....absolutely, lofts some balls up and watch CJ go grab a few. But Moss is not that. Not even a fifth of that. Or did you forget we signed him for mere peanuts after he sat out a entire year. Put on the tape of Moss's last season in NE and watch him run routes now. He's not that guy anymore.

Ness
10-02-2012, 12:10 AM
And I guess us and the Saints share the same offensively philosophy as well right? Or maybe you don't see Brees throwing into double-coverage often and getting burned for it.

No, I did see Brees win a Super Bowl in 2010 though.

Brees has Graham. Alex has Vernon who can take short passes and turn them into long gains. What is your point? God-forbid good quarterbacks having playmakers. Brees has also been productive before Graham was around and after he had left the Chargers with Gates there.

Let's not forget that due to the Saints and their garbage defense, Brees is having to play catch up in every game now. Not surprising that he is committing more turnovers than usual trying to carry his team.

And no, the Saints don't have the same offensive philosophy as we do. The Saints are also a much better offense than San Francisco because of their philosophy.

Borat
10-02-2012, 01:44 AM
Special Note:

http://a.fn.fncdn.com/images/content/getty/comp/XMUrUW.jpg
And with a simple touch, Alex Smith transfers all his Alexsmithiness to Christian Ponder.


Ponder: 16-of-26 passes for 111 yards Sunday against the Lions.

Ness
10-02-2012, 02:19 AM
Why aren't you going to get Alex Smith's jersey Borat?

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 05:36 AM
I don't understand this talk of not being able to win the Super Bowl with Smith's play. If Kyle Williams doesn't let that punt go off of his knee are we even having this conversation?

Ness
10-02-2012, 06:19 AM
I don't understand this talk of not being able to win the Super Bowl with Smith's play. If Kyle Williams doesn't let that punt go off of his knee are we even having this conversation?

I don't know. The way I look at it is that you can't just rely on the defense and special teams being perfect in big games all the time. I could say if the offense could pass the ball to a receiver or convert a third down in the crucial parts of the game are we even having this discussion? Turnovers are going to happen. Good offenses are still able to overcome those blunders as long as it doesn't happen every game throughout the season.

I'm trying to think back...has Alex ever had a game where he was dominant all four quarters? This isn't a bashing attempt. This just popped into my mind. Has he? I really can't remember. I suppose that Tampa Bay game last season, but he didn't really dominate.

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 06:36 AM
I don't know. The way I look at it is that you can't just rely on the defense and special teams being perfect in big games all the time. I could say if the offense could pass the ball to a receiver or convert a third down in the crucial parts of the game are we even having this discussion? Turnovers are going to happen. Good offenses are still able to overcome those blunders as long as it doesn't happen every game throughout the season.

I'm trying to think back...has Alex ever had a game where he was dominant all four quarters? This isn't a bashing attempt. This just popped into my mind. Has he? I really can't remember. I suppose that Tampa Bay game last season, but he didn't really dominate.

Turnovers are going to happen, true, but when is the last time you saw a punt returner fail to get out of the way of a punt he didn't field and let the ball go off of his knee? The special teams didn't need to be perfect, just fair catch that or get out of the way.

He hasn't really had many of them, true enough, but I mostly think that is because even before Harbaugh the coaching always wanted the offense to play not to lose. Nolan and Singletary played with a lead the same way that Harbaugh does. But Alex has had great games from start to finish. Off of the top of my head the game against St. Louis last year and against the Seahawks in 2010 pop into my mind first. He was also great against the Packers and Lions this year.

Ness
10-02-2012, 07:55 AM
Turnovers are going to happen, true, but when is the last time you saw a punt returner fail to get out of the way of a punt he didn't field and let the ball go off of his knee? The special teams didn't need to be perfect, just fair catch that or get out of the way.

Well it doesn't really matter. Turnovers are turnovers and they will screw you over. But that is when you need to have the QB and offense to get you out of those situations. Especially in big games.

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 08:04 AM
Well it doesn't really matter. Turnovers are turnovers and they will screw you over. But that is when you need to have the QB and offense to get you out of those situations. Especially in big games.

It does matter. Alex did play good enough and put up enough points to win that game. The Giants defense played great in the postseason, no QB was able to put the team on their back and win the game against them. Ryan, Rodgers and Brady all failed and arguably did worse than Smith.

Those other QBs weren't let down by their special teams, though. The Patriots only turnover was a Brady interception, not to mention he gave the Giants two points with that safety. Rodgers did almost nothing. Ryan did nothing. Smith had his team in position to win the game if not for a freak turnover.

Ness
10-02-2012, 08:32 AM
It does matter. Alex did play good enough and put up enough points to win that game. The Giants defense played great in the postseason, no QB was able to put the team on their back and win the game against them. Ryan, Rodgers and Brady all failed and arguably did worse than Smith.

Those other QBs weren't let down by their special teams, though. The Patriots only turnover was a Brady interception, not to mention he gave the Giants two points with that safety. Rodgers did almost nothing. Ryan did nothing. Smith had his team in position to win the game if not for a freak turnover.

Rodgers and Brady have won Super Bowls. So they've already proven themselves and carried their teams on their back.

Again, turnovers happen. You have to have an offense that is still able to score late in the game to overcome those mistakes. The 49ers offense has much to blame as the special teams for not being able to move the ball. Doesn't matter what defense they were playing against. That is when an offense is supposed to rise up regardless of the challenge. That is the difference between legend and non-legend.

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 08:34 AM
So, what you are saying that even though Smith played as well and scored as many points as unquestionably great quarterbacks he should have done more? I think maybe your expectations are too high. Smith isn't Joe Montana or Steve Young. He might not even be Jeff Garcia. He isn't a great QB. He is a good QB who can, and did, do enough to get his team to the Super Bowl if someone else on the team doesn't make a terrible mistake

Ness
10-02-2012, 12:16 PM
So, what you are saying that even though Smith played as well and scored as many points as unquestionably great quarterbacks he should have done more? I think maybe your expectations are too high. Smith isn't Joe Montana or Steve Young. He might not even be Jeff Garcia. He isn't a great QB. He is a good QB who can, and did, do enough to get his team to the Super Bowl if someone else on the team doesn't make a terrible mistake

Well this is what I was saying earlier about Smith have maybe already reached his ceiling. If that's the case it's going to be hard to win the Super Bowl. Usually the top quarterbacks, the guys that don't need an elite defense to help them out on offense, are the ones lifting the Lombardi up in February. Who was the last "meh" quarterback to win a championship? I think it was Brad Johnson riding that 2002 Buccaneers defense. Even he had a good season that year though.

VAfy-ya
10-02-2012, 12:20 PM
No, I did see Brees win a Super Bowl in 2010 though.

Brees has Graham. Alex has Vernon who can take short passes and turn them into long gains. What is your point? God-forbid good quarterbacks having playmakers. Brees has also been productive before Graham was around and after he had left the Chargers with Gates there.

Let's not forget that due to the Saints and their garbage defense, Brees is having to play catch up in every game now. Not surprising that he is committing more turnovers than usual trying to carry his team.

And no, the Saints don't have the same offensive philosophy as we do. The Saints are also a much better offense than San Francisco because of their philosophy.

Did that better offense win when it mattered though? As recall, we outplayed the 'better' offense when it was all said and done. We don't win games the same way the Saints do. I'm not trying to be the Saints offensively. And if your waiting for Jimbaugh to turn into Sean Peyton, don't hold your breath. We will never be a pass-first, spread-type of offense as long as Jimbaugh is coaching the Niners. All those visions of a high-powered passing offense you and others have in your head for this team will never happened. Might as well kill that dream now.

Jimbaugh has stated NUMEROUS times his perfect offense is 50/50, pass/run. That what he envisions, that's what he's trying to build. I refer to it as Steelers West. The same way the Steelers built those teams that had them in 3 Super Bowls in a 5 year span a couple of years back, that's what Jimbaugh and Baalke are trying to establish. Dominant run game. Dominant defense. Good passing attack. Except we're still working on the good passing attack aspect. My beef with the offense is not that I want us to pass downfield more. It's that I want us to execute better when we do pass. Giving up pressure, conservative play calling in some instances, dropped balls, overthrows to open WRs, all of those are why the passing game is struggling. It has nothing to do with not taking enough shots downfield or utilizing Moss enough. If we tighten up those areas I mentioned, no one is talking about us not throwing the ball downfield enough because the offense is converting 3rd downs, moving the chains and capitalizing on big gains through the air when the opportunities present themselves.

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 01:09 PM
Well this is what I was saying earlier about Smith have maybe already reached his ceiling. If that's the case it's going to be hard to win the Super Bowl. Usually the top quarterbacks, the guys that don't need an elite defense to help them out on offense, are the ones lifting the Lombardi up in February. Who was the last "meh" quarterback to win a championship? I think it was Brad Johnson riding that 2002 Buccaneers defense. Even he had a good season that year though.

I don't think Smith is only "meh," though. He is a borderline top 10 QB right now and I think he can improve even more. He is never going to be a top 3-5 QB but a top eight QB is not out of the question, and that is more than we need to win a Super Bowl

hawkeye123
10-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Anthony Davis has looked very good so far. I am happy to see this.

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 02:56 PM
I am very surprised at how good the right side has looked in general. Boone is really impressing me

binary
10-02-2012, 05:03 PM
I think everyone needs to calm down about the Offense. Alex is all we got, and even if the O is going to improve it's going to take some time. First two games, A+, last two C-. I'm hoping the first two games are more indicative of where it's gonna be at.

dan77733
10-02-2012, 08:24 PM
If we had a passing offense, those two fumbles by Kyle Williams wouldnt have mattered because we would have blown out the Giants.

I agree with Ness because Harbaugh and company cant keep depending on the running game, defense and special teams. We're eventually going to need a passing attack (hell, we needed it last week in MIN) in order to win some games and without that, there will be games that we wont win even though we should (see Vikings game).

The passing game is the ONLY major flaw we have on our team. Just imagine if we could actually have a passing game thats a threat to opposing defenses?

Smith is a top 15 QB but not top 10 let alone top 8 and here's why - if he was that good, Harbaugh would actually let him pass more instead of playing power run ball. Sorry but watching that and the play-calling sometimes feels like Nolan and Singletary are still here.

Every game is the same - run, get a lead, play good defense and special teams but dont go for the dagger and just try to hold on for the win. What if we didnt get any turnovers? We scored 10 points off four turnovers in the win over the Jets. Eventually, the defense isnt going to get any turnovers and thus, wont score any points off of them.

Then what? Our passing offense will need to win games for us. Eventually, like the NFCCG, thats what its going to come down too and we wont win because our passing attack is pretty much non-existent.

Cant keep depending on our running game, defense and special teams. The passing game has to do its fair share and score some damn points. And no, 10 isnt exactly what I had in mind.

49erNation85
10-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Man CK deep to Randy Moss looked pretty good into triple coverage. I say start him in Buffalo and see what he can do throwing deep. He has a better arm then Smith as well as better legs. Could be the next Steve Young....

I was shocked to see Kap get more playing time this game even with game more of a blow out.I thought it was cool and interesting to watch.I would like to see him start towards the end of season if had the NFC west locked down. I was still disappointing that Smith didn't bomb is down field instead of CK . So it tells me that JH doesn't trust his deep ball passing .. Why would that be ?

binary
10-02-2012, 08:45 PM
Man CK deep to Randy Moss looked pretty good into triple coverage. I say start him in Buffalo and see what he can do throwing deep. He has a better arm then Smith as well as better legs. Could be the next Steve Young....



what? the fluck?

hawkeye123
10-02-2012, 08:48 PM
Yeah im a bit confused as well haha

49erNation85
10-02-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm just saying Colin Kap had a better deep ball then Smith. And like we should start him one game this season . Too hard to ask for ?

VAfy-ya
10-02-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm just saying Colin Kap had a better deep ball then Smith. And like we should start him one game this season . Too hard to ask for ?

Are you high? That was one of the worst throws I've ever seen from him. You want to start him one game based off of that?

abaddon41_80
10-02-2012, 09:22 PM
CK underthrew a triple covered Moss. We should definitely start him. On a more serious note,

If we had a passing offense, those two fumbles by Kyle Williams wouldnt have mattered because we would have blown out the Giants.

Did you not watch the Giants defense during their last six games last year? Smith outplayed most of the quarterbacks they went up against. With his receivers being Michael Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Brett Swain Alex put up 17 points.

Romo was throwing to Miles Austin, Dez Bryant and Laurent Robinson--the Cowboys scored 14 points. Ryan was throwing to Roddy White and Julio Jones--the Falcons scored zero points. Rodgers was throwing to Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones and Randall Cobb--the Packers scored 20 points, seven of those being a garbage time touchdown. Brady was throwing to Wes Welker and Deion Branch--the Patriots scored 17 points.

Smith is a top 15 QB but not top 10 let alone top 8 and here's why - if he was that good, Harbaugh would actually let him pass more instead of playing power run ball. Sorry but watching that and the play-calling sometimes feels like Nolan and Singletary are still here.

Not necessarily true. Harbaugh had Andrew Luck at Stanford and they still ran the ball over 55% of the time. That was actually higher than the percentage the 49ers ran the ball last year.

Every game is the same - run, get a lead, play good defense and special teams but dont go for the dagger and just try to hold on for the win. What if we didnt get any turnovers? We scored 10 points off four turnovers in the win over the Jets. Eventually, the defense isnt going to get any turnovers and thus, wont score any points off of them.

We had no problem dominating the Packers and Lions without forcing turnovers this year. The defense forced no turnovers against the Giants in the NFCCG and we still would have won if not for Williams' knee.

Borat
10-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Holy jeebus. I guess I should get started on the next gameday thread asap. This last page has been fairly embarrassing.

Madirishman
10-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Holy jeebus. I guess I should get started on the next gameday thread asap. This last page has been fairly embarrassing.

Yes please.

abaddon41_80
10-03-2012, 05:57 AM
Holy jeebus. I guess I should get started on the next gameday thread asap. This last page has been fairly embarrassing.

Make sure you put something about Kaep being the starter because he threw a deep ball to a triple-covered Moss that wasn't even completed

Ness
10-03-2012, 06:42 AM
Did that better offense win when it mattered though? As recall, we outplayed the 'better' offense when it was all said and done. We don't win games the same way the Saints do. I'm not trying to be the Saints offensively. And if your waiting for Jimbaugh to turn into Sean Peyton, don't hold your breath. We will never be a pass-first, spread-type of offense as long as Jimbaugh is coaching the Niners. All those visions of a high-powered passing offense you and others have in your head for this team will never happened. Might as well kill that dream now.

Jimbaugh has stated NUMEROUS times his perfect offense is 50/50, pass/run. That what he envisions, that's what he's trying to build. I refer to it as Steelers West. The same way the Steelers built those teams that had them in 3 Super Bowls in a 5 year span a couple of years back, that's what Jimbaugh and Baalke are trying to establish. Dominant run game. Dominant defense. Good passing attack. Except we're still working on the good passing attack aspect. My beef with the offense is not that I want us to pass downfield more. It's that I want us to execute better when we do pass. Giving up pressure, conservative play calling in some instances, dropped balls, overthrows to open WRs, all of those are why the passing game is struggling. It has nothing to do with not taking enough shots downfield or utilizing Moss enough. If we tighten up those areas I mentioned, no one is talking about us not throwing the ball downfield enough because the offense is converting 3rd downs, moving the chains and capitalizing on big gains through the air when the opportunities present themselves.

Yes they did win when it mattered as the Saints won it all in 2009.

And last time I checked the Steelers run game has been awful for like several years now. They're passing the ball primarily now and are in the playoffs every single year as well. Not saying I want that. As long as the chains are moving and third downs are being converted via the air when a pass play is called then it's not a big deal.

But there is nothing wrong with taking shots down the field. A couple people here are acting like this is a crime.

Ness
10-03-2012, 06:46 AM
I don't think Smith is only "meh," though. He is a borderline top 10 QB right now and I think he can improve even more. He is never going to be a top 3-5 QB but a top eight QB is not out of the question, and that is more than we need to win a Super Bowl

Alex is going to have to have some bigger games in the years to come then. As in, games he takes over and just dominates from start to finish, even when every other thing isn't working out perfectly. He had that game against the Saints, but he wasn't good in all four quarters. He was good when it mattered, great. But that game should have been a blowout looking back. The offense just sputtered until the final minutes. And a lot of folks probably see that game as a fluke still as far as Alex is concerned. It wasn't a good defense, Greg Williams is terrible, etc.