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bored of education
09-30-2012, 01:30 PM
Geno Smith?

BuckeyeDan17
09-30-2012, 01:36 PM
He's a Brown dude, get outta here we suck way worse than you don't you understand???



edited to depict I'm not a racist

keylime_5
09-30-2012, 01:45 PM
browns trade pick to chiefs :D

SaintsMan
09-30-2012, 07:20 PM
Saints trade pick to chiefs for 3 1st round picks!!!

bucfan12
09-30-2012, 07:28 PM
Bucs get 1st pick. Take Geno Smith.

BuckeyeDan17
09-30-2012, 07:33 PM
Bucs get 1st pick. Take Geno Smith.

do you really wanna go down this road again tonight?

TACKLE
09-30-2012, 07:35 PM
They'll probably take Star. They won't need a QB after they pickup Brian Hoyer.

SaintsMan
09-30-2012, 07:39 PM
No way! Star is going to the Saints

bucfan12
09-30-2012, 07:39 PM
do you really wanna go down this road again tonight?

Yes. did you not watch that Bucs game? Haha

mqtirishfan
09-30-2012, 07:42 PM
Hes a brown dude get outta here we suck way worse than you don't you understand???

That looks racist without proper punctuation.

bored of education
09-30-2012, 07:44 PM
They'll probably take Star. They won't need a QB after they pickup Brian Hoyer.

DUHHHHHHHHHH Hoyaaaaa

Pat Sims 90
09-30-2012, 07:46 PM
Kansas City will just trade for Ryan Mallet.

SuperPacker
09-30-2012, 07:48 PM
Kansas City will just trade for Ryan Mallet.

That wouldn't be too bad, would it?

BuckeyeDan17
09-30-2012, 07:51 PM
Yes. did you not watch that Bucs game? Haha

Whatevz dude, you don't have a leg to stand on until we win a game.

bucfan12
09-30-2012, 07:51 PM
Whatevz dude, you don't have a leg to stand on until we win a game.

Could be arranged when we play KC :D

BuckeyeDan17
09-30-2012, 07:54 PM
Could be arranged when we play KC :D

Look at cleveland's schedule and tell me what game we're going to win..?

Take your time.

bucfan12
09-30-2012, 08:05 PM
Look at cleveland's schedule and tell me what game we're going to win..?

Take your time.

They play every other team the way they did against hte Ravens, I see a few upsets pulled off.

Raiderz4Life
09-30-2012, 08:33 PM
The Chiefs have 1 win. The Browns have none and may only get one from the Raiders.

Meanwhile the Chiefs play the Raiders twice.

vidae
09-30-2012, 08:53 PM
The Raiders will beat the Chiefs easily if our D keeps playing like this.

T-RICH49
09-30-2012, 09:33 PM
The Raiders will beat the Chiefs easily if our D keeps playing like this.

forget the D if our QB keeps throwing it to the other team

T-RICH49
09-30-2012, 09:34 PM
That wouldn't be too bad, would it?

having already traded for one Pats backup...I'll pass on going down that road again

keylime_5
09-30-2012, 09:56 PM
Browns will win 3 - 5 games. They are competitive in all 4 games they lost so far, all 4 were lost by one score pretty much. The talk of being winless is stupid, they aren't that bad.

TonyGfortheTD
09-30-2012, 10:04 PM
That wouldn't be too bad, would it?

Yes it would be.

Raiderz4Life
09-30-2012, 10:40 PM
forget the D if our QB keeps throwing it to the other team

Shouldn't be a problem. Our DBs might as well take the day off.

J-Spot
10-01-2012, 12:02 AM
On a second note, I'm almost certain that Saints will take Star.

I had this vision of Lotulelei plugging up the middle for a new 2013 Saints D that ranks in the top-5 in the NFL, bringing Saints back into the Super Bowl discussion next year.

BeardedOne
10-01-2012, 03:01 AM
The Chiefs are just good enough to lose out on the #1 pick. They draft Wilson.

T-RICH49
10-01-2012, 04:14 AM
Shouldn't be a problem. Our DBs might as well take the day off.

trust me Matt Cassel can make ANY secondary look good

onejayhawk
10-01-2012, 09:09 AM
The Raiders will beat the Chiefs easily if our D keeps playing like this.

What are you talking about? The defense played well. Put them in a whole with 6 turn overs and even the 2000 Ravens will give up points.

The Chiefs are just good enough to lose out on the #1 pick. They draft Wilson.

He'll be gone. We get stuck with Barkley.:lynched:

J

TonyGfortheTD
10-01-2012, 10:00 AM
What are you talking about? The defense played well. Put them in a whole with 6 turn overs and even the 2000 Ravens will give up points.

The Defense gave up a long ass drive and 7 points before any turn overs. They gave up a lot of yards and couldn't even slow them down in obvious running situations.

That was not a good Defensive performance.

T

onejayhawk
10-01-2012, 03:32 PM
The Defense gave up a long ass drive and 7 points before any turn overs. They gave up a lot of yards and couldn't even slow them down in obvious running situations.

That was not a good Defensive performance.

T
OK. It was not good. As noted the first score came before the slapstick comedy. Neither was it bad, under the circumstances. -5 TO is a killer.

J

duesouth
10-02-2012, 08:52 AM
Johnathan Hankins - DT - Ohio State - a real two gap NT.

vidae
10-02-2012, 10:01 AM
There is no way the Chiefs take another NT when QB is arguably the biggest need for this team.

TheMatriculator
10-02-2012, 10:27 AM
There is no way the Chiefs take another NT when QB is arguably the biggest need for this team.

Arguably??? I think even nepg would have trouble arguing that point now. Well, he would but it would be difficult.

I have defended Cassel in the past and while he isn't as bad as some people make him out to be, he is a problem and not a solution.

vidae
10-02-2012, 10:32 AM
My biggest concern is that we'll eke out a few meaningless wins and miss out on Geno or Tyler Wilson. Then I'll rage so hard.

I'm not interested in turning this around. I want to be 1-15 right now. I want the season to be over so we can actually turn this around.

onejayhawk
10-02-2012, 02:13 PM
My biggest concern is that we'll eke out a few meaningless wins and miss out on Geno or Tyler Wilson. Then I'll rage so hard.

I'm not interested in turning this around. I want to be 1-15 right now. I want the season to be over so we can actually turn this around.

If by "a few" you mean 7-10 more, I agree with you.

J

T-RICH49
10-02-2012, 08:21 PM
If by "a few" you mean 7-10 more, I agree with you.

J

WHAT have you seen from this sorry excuse for a team that makes you believe we'll win 7-10.please explain

villagewarrior
10-02-2012, 08:51 PM
WHAT have you seen from this sorry excuse for a team that makes you believe we'll win 7-10.please explain

1st half of Atlanta. 2nd half of New Orleans. They're too inconsistent to be consistently bad enough for the 1st pick.

vidae
10-02-2012, 09:15 PM
We've had quite a few injuries already so maybe that will continue. Either way we're not winning games with Cassel and we're not playing defense anyway, so it's going to be a long season.

And 7-10 wins? Really?

onejayhawk
10-03-2012, 11:43 AM
We've had quite a few injuries already so maybe that will continue. Either way we're not winning games with Cassel and we're not playing defense anyway, so it's going to be a long season.

And 7-10 wins? Really?

7-10 more wins. Yes.

J

vidae
10-03-2012, 12:41 PM
7-10 more wins. Yes.

J

Ugh. :njx:

Shane P. Hallam
10-03-2012, 12:45 PM
7-10 more losses. Yes.

J


Fixed. and I liked KC, ask vidae. I picked them to win the division, but they are struggling to do the basics right now.

vidae
10-03-2012, 12:46 PM
Fixed. and I liked KC, ask vidae. I picked them to win the division, but they are struggling to do the basics right now.

It's frustrating because there is a lot of talent on this team, but it's apparent that there is no coaching.

BuckeyeDan17
10-03-2012, 01:52 PM
We thought rac would make a nice hc too. He even teased us super hard in 2007. You know how the rest goes :(

Don Vito
10-03-2012, 02:02 PM
I love the direction the Pats defense is going in but I still miss Romeo's defense. With all of the pieces he has in KC I'm surprised it hasn't been working.

AntoinCD
10-03-2012, 02:23 PM
I love the direction the Pats defense is going in but I still miss Romeo's defense. With all of the pieces he has in KC I'm surprised it hasn't been working.

There's lots of guys who make great coordinators and sucky head coaches. When the Chiefs turned to RAC last year it was mentioned that the players wanted to play for him. I think that is bull and they were just glad of something different from Haley. Sometimes you need a hard ass or a disciplinarian as the head coach.

When "nice guys" are head coaches often it leads to ill-discipline and a general level of apathy from the players. I know they are grown men but sometimes what they really need is a kick in the ass and someone to light a fire under them.

Don Vito
10-03-2012, 02:30 PM
There's lots of guys who make great coordinators and sucky head coaches. When the Chiefs turned to RAC last year it was mentioned that the players wanted to play for him. I think that is bull and they were just glad of something different from Haley. Sometimes you need a hard ass or a disciplinarian as the head coach.

When "nice guys" are head coaches often it leads to ill-discipline and a general level of apathy from the players. I know they are grown men but sometimes what they really need is a kick in the ass and someone to light a fire under them.

I was more referring to the defense rather than the team as a whole but I know what youre saying. They've obviously invested a lot on that DL, there's homegrown high picks at linebacker, a stud corner in flowers and a talented young safety in Berry. Our success started up front with Romeo and I think the Chiefs are still looking for their Seymour type player as well as an anchor
NT. At least that's what Romeo wants, don't know how much more time he will have to build it.

vidae
10-03-2012, 03:37 PM
I like Romeo but I'm hoping we have a new FO and coaching staff after this year. And a new QB. That would be neat.

y.f.s.
10-03-2012, 04:12 PM
I like Romeo but I'm hoping we have a new FO and coaching staff after this year. And a new QB. That would be neat.

Basically, the Chiefs are a more talented version of the Jaguars.

Race you to Geno and a new regime.

Ozzy
10-03-2012, 04:31 PM
Who ever is in charge of that 3/4 defense and player personnel, needs to stop sucking. Here are the picks they have spent over a few years on that 3/4 defense. Some were ok and most are all still around. But they keep seeming to fill needs in the defense and it is not working all that great. Would have been very interesting if Glenn Dorsey was put in a 4/3 defense, because he clearly is not a great 3/4 DE at all. The fit makes sense for guys like Bailey, Powe and Jackson. Worst of them though is Poe, that was a huge reach but who knows maybe he will turn out ok.


2012
1st round Donatri Poe NT

2011
2nd round Justin Houston OLB, Allen Bailey DE
6th round Jerrell Powe NT


2009
1st round Tyson Jackson DE
2nd round Alex Magee DT

2008
1st round Glenn Dorsey DT/DE

2007
2nd round Turk McBride DE
3rd round Tank Tyler DT

2006
1st round Tamba Hali DE/OLB





Chiefs take a quarterback though regardless, clearly not even a question to even ask anymore.

descendency
10-03-2012, 06:35 PM
The best player in the draft, Jarvis Jones.

descendency
10-03-2012, 06:37 PM
1st round Glenn Dorsey DT/DE

He wasn't drafted as a DE/DT. He was drafted as a 43 under tackle, which is part of the reason why he was so bad in KC for a pick that high.

vidae
10-03-2012, 07:25 PM
Dorsey is okay for a 3-4 DE but he's clearly not being used correctly. I don't even think it matters atm because he's in the final year of his contract and will probably not be re-signed.

vidae
10-03-2012, 07:27 PM
Basically, the Chiefs are a more talented version of the Jaguars.

Race you to Geno and a new regime.

NO, you have your franchise QB! Damnit YFS, stop hoggin all the QBs!

villagewarrior
10-03-2012, 07:37 PM
Worst of them though is Poe, that was a huge reach but who knows maybe he will turn out ok.

Actually, and I have been one of the biggest critics of the Poe selection, but he hasn't looked that bad so far. Hasn't made many big plays yet, but I don't think I've seen him blown off the ball at all and I see him double teamed frequently. Every once in a while he flashes that athleticism from the Combine. I'm much higher on him now than I ever was on Tyson Jackson.

I'd be ok with the Chiefs taking Jarvis Jones. This is a terrible QB year, Geno Smith is the best one it looks like. I would just as soon talk to San Francisco or Arizona about Kaepernick/Skelton for a 3rd or 4th round pick than invest a high first round pick on a QB who will bust.

vidae
10-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Actually, and I have been one of the biggest critics of the Poe selection, but he hasn't looked that bad so far. Hasn't made many big plays yet, but I don't think I've seen him blown off the ball at all and I see him double teamed frequently. Every once in a while he flashes that athleticism from the Combine. I'm much higher on him now than I ever was on Tyson Jackson.

I'd be ok with the Chiefs taking Jarvis Jones. This is a terrible QB year, Geno Smith is the best one it looks like. I would just as soon talk to San Francisco or Arizona about Kaepernick/Skelton for a 3rd or 4th round pick than invest a high first round pick on a QB who will bust.

Ugh Village, don't get in that mindset. We can't go through another year like the last three or four. We NEED a QB. And trading for Kaepernick or Skelton is just the same ****, different year. I'm sick of it. Tyler Wilson, Matt Barkley, Geno Smith.. one of those needs to be in KC red next year, period. I'm sick of doing things the same way and seeing no new results. So god damn sick of it.

Raiderz4Life
10-03-2012, 08:30 PM
Hey...I like Kaep. I think he'll be pretty good.

KCStud
10-03-2012, 10:57 PM
No to Kaepernick!!!! NOOO!!!! Tired of this organization getting backup QB's from other teams!

Draft someone in the first round. I think Geno, Wilson or even Murray would work out.

The team is a quality QB and HC away from being a perennial playoff contender. If the team can make Matt freaking Cassel look good, than a rookie QB should have no problem.

bored of education
10-03-2012, 10:59 PM
Who ever is in charge of that 3/4 defense and player personnel, needs to stop sucking. Here are the picks they have spent over a few years on that 3/4 defense. Some were ok and most are all still around. But they keep seeming to fill needs in the defense and it is not working all that great. Would have been very interesting if Glenn Dorsey was put in a 4/3 defense, because he clearly is not a great 3/4 DE at all. The fit makes sense for guys like Bailey, Powe and Jackson. Worst of them though is Poe, that was a huge reach but who knows maybe he will turn out ok.


2012
1st round Donatri Poe NT

2011
2nd round Justin Houston OLB, Allen Bailey DE
6th round Jerrell Powe NT


2009
1st round Tyson Jackson DE
2nd round Alex Magee DT

2008
1st round Glenn Dorsey DT/DE

2007
2nd round Turk McBride DE
3rd round Tank Tyler DT

2006
1st round Tamba Hali DE/OLB





Chiefs take a quarterback though regardless, clearly not even a question to even ask anymore.



umm you missed a regime and defensive change right in the middle.

bored of education
10-03-2012, 11:00 PM
He wasn't drafted as a DE/DT. He was drafted as a 43 under tackle, which is part of the reason why he was so bad in KC for a pick that high.

and he was used as an 43 NT by Gunther his rookie year.

Brent
10-04-2012, 07:51 PM
Race you to Geno and a new regime.
You and I both know that any team you root for a team is doomed to not have a functioning QB.

KaneMarko
10-12-2012, 01:03 PM
There is no way the Chiefs take another NT when QB is arguably the biggest need for this team.

My brother in Red and Gold, there is no "arguably" about it. QB IS the biggest need on this team. True, not the only need. But this organization has spent high draft picks on just about every position on the field. It's time for them to go QB.

And if Pioli (assuming he's still here) even THINKS about taking another defensive lineman in the first round...oh man I'm going to flip $h!t.

KaneMarko
10-12-2012, 01:13 PM
Actually, and I have been one of the biggest critics of the Poe selection, but he hasn't looked that bad so far. Hasn't made many big plays yet, but I don't think I've seen him blown off the ball at all and I see him double teamed frequently. Every once in a while he flashes that athleticism from the Combine. I'm much higher on him now than I ever was on Tyson Jackson.

I'd be ok with the Chiefs taking Jarvis Jones. This is a terrible QB year, Geno Smith is the best one it looks like. I would just as soon talk to San Francisco or Arizona about Kaepernick/Skelton for a 3rd or 4th round pick than invest a high first round pick on a QB who will bust.

VW, I have to disagree with your last sentence there. This organization has been doing that forever. Trying to get backups from other teams to come here and start: Cassel, Trent, Grbac, Bono...just to name a few.

That CANNOT go on. I know it's scary to spend a 1st on a QB. It's hard to find that guy. In fact, I'm of the opinion that finding starting pitching and a true starting QB are the hardest things to find in sports. But you're never going to find it if you don't take a legitimate change at it. We have to find a true, long term solution to that spot. We can't keep trying to do what hasn't worked hoping for different results. 30 years is far too long, IMO, to go without spending a first on QB. True, chances are whoever we'd pick in the first will bust. But, we won't know until we try. We have zero chance of finding that guy if we don't even try.

bored of education
10-14-2012, 03:03 PM
Geno Smith please.

vidae
10-14-2012, 03:31 PM
There is no way the Chiefs aren't the worst team in the NFL now. No way.

TonyGfortheTD
10-14-2012, 03:33 PM
There is no way the Chiefs aren't the worst team in the NFL now. No way.
Jacksonville says bring it.

Unbiased
10-14-2012, 03:38 PM
Jacksonville says bring it.

And we mean business.

T-RICH49
10-14-2012, 03:41 PM
And we mean business.

Hey our QB's are crappier then your's so IT'S ON!!!

vidae
10-14-2012, 03:43 PM
I would put money on the Jags beating the Chiefs. A lot of money. Gabbert is better than any QB on our roster and MJD would destroy this defense. Hell, we'd make Blackmon look good too.

This is the worst Chiefs team I've ever seen.

T-RICH49
10-14-2012, 04:11 PM
I would put money on the Jags beating the Chiefs. A lot of money. Gabbert is better than any QB on our roster and MJD would destroy this defense. Hell, we'd make Blackmon look good too.

This is the worst Chiefs team I've ever seen.

This Chiefs team makes me miss the Herm Edwards coached Chiefs teams...yes it's gotten that bad

JagWired32
10-14-2012, 10:20 PM
Wouldn't get too excited about the Chiefs being #1 overall, the Jaguars most definitely could, haha.

Vikes99ej
10-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Would you guys take Tyler Wilson?

descendency
10-15-2012, 12:14 AM
Hey our QB's are crappier then your's so IT'S ON!!!

Cassell > Gabbert for sure.

vidae
10-15-2012, 12:54 AM
Would you guys take Tyler Wilson?

Over Geno? I don't know. I like Tyler Wilson a lot but I need to see more of him this season.

Cassell > Gabbert for sure.

No, it is not for sure. In fact, it's straight up false. Cassel has more turnovers than most teams. He has 14 himself. 14 turnovers. I would take Gabbert over Cassel in a heartbeat.

Vikes99ej
10-15-2012, 01:35 AM
Over Geno? I don't know. I like Tyler Wilson a lot but I need to see more of him this season.



No, it is not for sure. In fact, it's straight up false. Cassel has more turnovers than most teams. He has 14 himself. 14 turnovers. I would take Gabbert over Cassel in a heartbeat.

Nah, I'm talking if you guys were in a position where Barkley and Smith were taken already

villagewarrior
10-15-2012, 08:11 AM
Nah, I'm talking if you guys were in a position where Barkley and Smith were taken already

I'd take Wilson over Barkley for sure. Don't know about Smith.

vidae
10-15-2012, 08:52 AM
Nah, I'm talking if you guys were in a position where Barkley and Smith were taken already

Yeah I don't see how we'd pass on him.

Don Vito
10-15-2012, 09:15 AM
Are people talking about possibly taking Wilson over Geno? If so, what a difference a couple of days makes.

vidae
10-15-2012, 09:20 AM
No, he said if Geno and Barkley were gone. Geno is still the clear cut #1 in my mind, but there are a lot of games left to play so we'll see.

Don Vito
10-15-2012, 09:20 AM
Oh got ya.

BuckeyeDan17
10-15-2012, 03:08 PM
We won this week but that's okay, I can still **** on your guys' hopes and dreams unless we go on a winning streak.

Babylon
10-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Are people talking about possibly taking Wilson over Geno? If so, what a difference a couple of days makes.

Would have liked to have seen Wilson play against Alabama, i think he could have made a bigger name for himself there. I don't think it's a given Geno Smith goes first.

Don Vito
10-15-2012, 03:35 PM
I am a big Wilson fan as well. You cannot ask a QB to do anything more than what Geno has done this year so I would still have Wilson rated second, but things can change.

onejayhawk
10-16-2012, 06:22 AM
I must admit I was wrong about the Chiefs. I filly expected them to be .500 now. Its easy to pile on Cassel, and he deserves a lot of the blame, but nothing has work consistently. Our ST should be top 10 with the personnel available. They are actually bottom 10. That is a sign of not focusing on basics.

J

bored of education
11-18-2012, 07:05 PM
Mike Glennon

Brent
11-18-2012, 07:18 PM
I filly expected them to be .500 now.
swing and a miss. sorry dude. :\

vidae
11-18-2012, 10:47 PM
Mike Glennon

Tyler Wilson.

bigbuc
11-18-2012, 11:45 PM
KC takes Star Lotulelei. Would be a great combo with Poe.

I think they trade back into round 1 for a QB. No reason to reach on the first overall pick

ChiFan24
11-18-2012, 11:47 PM
I'm becoming reasonably sure all these QBs suck. One more year in limbo for KC.

SolidGold
11-18-2012, 11:49 PM
KC takes Star Lotulelei. Would be a great combo with Poe.

I think they trade back into round 1 for a QB. No reason to reach on the first overall pick

I dunno - depends if they go back to the 4-3. That said I bet most people would be pissed if the Chiefs used another first rounder on a d-linemen - Poe, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey are all first round picks and I think most Chiefs fans would agree that its time for them to address QB

vidae
11-18-2012, 11:54 PM
KC takes Star Lotulelei. Would be a great combo with Poe.

I think they trade back into round 1 for a QB. No reason to reach on the first overall pick

Do you know how many times a year we see these kinds of posts? Oh just trade back into the first for a QB! Like it's so simple to do that. How many teams can you recall doing that in the last 10 years? How about 5?

I dunno - depends if they go back to the 4-3. That said I bet most people would be pissed if the Chiefs used another first rounder on a d-linemen - Poe, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey are all first round picks and I think most Chiefs fans would agree that its time for them to address QB

The team is already going to lose a good chunk of their season ticket holders. Taking Star over a QB would just solidify that for most people. It would also hammer home that the Chiefs just have no interest in winning football games. Not like people can't see that right now.

descendency
11-19-2012, 12:54 AM
Do you know how many times a year we see these kinds of posts? Oh just trade back into the first for a QB! Like it's so simple to do that. How many teams can you recall doing that in the last 10 years? How about 5?

Denver did! They got Tebow.

You guys could have had him if you traded back in.

/obvioustrolling

KaneMarko
11-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Mike Glennon

I know at least most will disagree but I predict Mike Glennon will end up going much earlier than people think.

bigbuc
11-19-2012, 02:08 PM
Do you know how many times a year we see these kinds of posts? Oh just trade back into the first for a QB! Like it's so simple to do that. How many teams can you recall doing that in the last 10 years? How about 5?



The team is already going to lose a good chunk of their season ticket holders. Taking Star over a QB would just solidify that for most people. It would also hammer home that the Chiefs just have no interest in winning football games. Not like people can't see that right now.

It's better to take the player worth the first overall pick then to grab a QB just to take one. Case in point Cinny, could have reached for a QB but didn't got the best player in the draft in AJ Green came around in the second got the QB.

bored of education
12-16-2012, 06:38 PM
Geno Wilson or Tyler Smith please

KCStud
12-16-2012, 07:10 PM
I don't know how ANYONE can possibly mock ANYTHING but a QB to the Chiefs.

Our offense had 17 yards at halftime and 119 total.

Not trying to be a dick, but just pissed that people don't mock QB to us after games like this. Seriously.

bored of education
12-16-2012, 07:11 PM
9 of the 11 drives were of 4 plays or less that ended with PUNT/TO/on downs

tmljeh19
12-16-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't know how ANYONE can possibly mock ANYTHING but a QB to the Chiefs.

Our offense had 17 yards at halftime and 119 total.

Not trying to be a dick, but just pissed that people don't mock QB to us after games like this. Seriously.

So you want to drastically reach for a QB just because your O sucks?

vidae
12-16-2012, 07:14 PM
So you want to drastically reach for a QB just because your O sucks?

First, our O sucks because of QB play.

Second, there is no such thing as reaching on a QB when you flat out don't have one.

tmljeh19
12-16-2012, 07:16 PM
First, our O sucks because of QB play.

Second, there is no such thing as reaching on a QB when you flat out don't have one.

When you take a guy first overall that isn't worthy of the pick then it doesnt matter what your need is/isnt. Just asking for a disaster.

bored of education
12-16-2012, 07:18 PM
When you take a guy first overall that isn't worthy of the pick then it doesnt matter what your need is/isnt. Just asking for a disaster.

Who are YOU to judge who is worthy of of first overall pick? Please explain to me why you dont believe any of the QBs are not 1st overall material.

tmljeh19
12-16-2012, 07:22 PM
Who are YOU to judge who is worthy of of first overall pick? Please explain to me why you dont believe any of the QBs are not 1st overall material.

As of now there isn't. Sure Geno can blow people away with his workouts and might look like one but he clearly isnt a hands down first overall pick right now.

KCStud
12-16-2012, 08:20 PM
So you want to drastically reach for a QB just because your O sucks?

Absolutely. Any of the QB's in the draft are a significant upgrade for us at QB. Cassel and Quinn are that bad.

Who else should we take with the first pick?

Te'o is not worth the first overall pick, Jones is not needed when we have both OLB's who are 10+ sack guys, Joekel isn't needed because we have Albert who's only given up 1 sack all year and God help me if we draft Star Lotuleioewhatever with the 1st pick.

We've drafted DL high in the first round 3 out of the last 5 years. Taking another one right now is just stupid.

QB is the most important position in all of sports. Reaching for one, especially when you have a huge need, is worth it.

tmljeh19
12-16-2012, 08:48 PM
Absolutely. Any of the QB's in the draft are a significant upgrade for us at QB. Cassel and Quinn are that bad.

Who else should we take with the first pick?

Te'o is not worth the first overall pick, Jones is not needed when we have both OLB's who are 10+ sack guys, Joekel isn't needed because we have Albert who's only given up 1 sack all year and God help me if we draft Star Lotuleioewhatever with the 1st pick.

We've drafted DL high in the first round 3 out of the last 5 years. Taking another one right now is just stupid.

QB is the most important position in all of sports. Reaching for one, especially when you have a huge need, is worth it.

I agree they are putrid but you would be best served trying everything to trade back. Being able to snag Geno or Barkley 3-5 or further back would be ideal. Its an absolutely awful draft for top 5 talent.

vidae
12-16-2012, 09:23 PM
I agree they are putrid but you would be best served trying everything to trade back. Being able to snag Geno or Barkley 3-5 or further back would be ideal. Its an absolutely awful draft for top 5 talent.

Saying you should trade back and being able to trade back are two vastly different things. And if you CAN trade back, you better be damn sure the guy you like is there when you're picking.

Me, I'd rather just take him when we're first able to and not chance it. I'm tired of being a laughing stock.

tmljeh19
12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Saying you should trade back and being able to trade back are two vastly different things. And if you CAN trade back, you better be damn sure the guy you like is there when you're picking.

Me, I'd rather just take him when we're first able to and not chance it. I'm tired of being a laughing stock.

Agreed trading up and down is easier said then done. Hence why I said you should try not that it should just happen.

If you're tired of being a laughing stock then just imagine if you swing and miss at a QB #1 overall that wasnt worth the pick to being with.

y.f.s.
12-17-2012, 03:25 PM
Agreed trading up and down is easier said then done. Hence why I said you should try not that it should just happen.

If you're tired of being a laughing stock then just imagine if you swing and miss at a QB #1 overall that wasnt worth the pick to being with.

It could somehow get worse?

Scared money don't make money.

gpngc
12-17-2012, 03:26 PM
Surprised Kirk Cousins hasn't been mentioned 17 times in this thread.

vidae
12-17-2012, 04:33 PM
Agreed trading up and down is easier said then done. Hence why I said you should try not that it should just happen.

If you're tired of being a laughing stock then just imagine if you swing and miss at a QB #1 overall that wasnt worth the pick to being with.

At least in that scenario we tried. Anything is better than the same crap we've been doing for three decades. Anything. Even a Jamarcus Russell level bust.

tmljeh19
12-18-2012, 08:13 AM
At least in that scenario we tried. Anything is better than the same crap we've been doing for three decades. Anything. Even a Jamarcus Russell level bust.

I just have this feeling that someone is going to make a blockbuster and move up to 1 for Geno. The Jets and Eagles are my gut feeling. The Jets made a big move for Sanchez and the Eagles were in talks about moving up for RG3. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Shane P. Hallam
12-18-2012, 08:15 AM
I just have this feeling that someone is going to make a blockbuster and move up to 1 for Geno. The Jets and Eagles are my gut feeling. The Jets made a big move for Sanchez and the Eagles were in talks about moving up for RG3. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Both could have new GMs (Eagles definitely), so not sure that is applicable.

villagewarrior
12-18-2012, 08:48 AM
If the Chiefs can trade out of 1 in order to not take Geno than I would be happy. If I'm reaching for a QB I think I'm reaching for one of the Tyler's. I like their games the best.

AntoinCD
12-18-2012, 08:52 AM
I just have this feeling that someone is going to make a blockbuster and move up to 1 for Geno. The Jets and Eagles are my gut feeling. The Jets made a big move for Sanchez and the Eagles were in talks about moving up for RG3. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

I don't see the Jets making a big move up this year. They really have too many holes on both sides of the ball, plus Sanchez is pretty much tied to the team next year too. The Eagles could do it but I see them possibly seeing what they have for a full year with Foles. I don't think this is a great year for QBs. Teams will overdraft guys like Geno based on positional value while teams who may have moved up for a Luck, RG3 etc will happily let guys like Star, Joeckel etc fall to them

tmljeh19
12-18-2012, 10:28 AM
I don't see the Jets making a big move up this year. They really have too many holes on both sides of the ball, plus Sanchez is pretty much tied to the team next year too. The Eagles could do it but I see them possibly seeing what they have for a full year with Foles. I don't think this is a great year for QBs. Teams will overdraft guys like Geno based on positional value while teams who may have moved up for a Luck, RG3 etc will happily let guys like Star, Joeckel etc fall to them

If Rex stays in NY then no they won't. But both teams might and probably will have a new HC (especially Philly). I can't see how a HC would like to have a QB forced upon them unless you have a legit franchise QB or a stellar prospect that a coach would be drawn there to coach to begin with. Foles is neither of those.

AcheTen (Thumper)
12-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Both could have new GMs (Eagles definitely), so not sure that is applicable.

The Eagles GM, Howie Roseman, was given a 5 year extension in the offseason. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

All of the coaches are getting fired, obviously, but Roseman will continue to be the GM indefinitely.

trappeshot
12-19-2012, 05:18 PM
If i were the cheifs i would swap firsts with the pats for ryan mallett

SuperPacker
12-19-2012, 05:30 PM
If i were the cheifs i would swap firsts with the pats for ryan mallett

http://k.minus.com/ib2dFrNbSwSDss.gif

Caulibflower
12-19-2012, 05:39 PM
Surprised Kirk Cousins hasn't been mentioned 17 times in this thread.

And I'm surprised no one has responded to this post. If I'm Kansas City I think I'd rather have Cousins for a third round pick (the first pick of the third, I'm assuming) and keep the first two for other positions.

SuperPacker
12-19-2012, 05:41 PM
Would Washington even trade him for that? The 2nd round pick would probably make more sense, although I think that could be too much.

TACKLE
12-19-2012, 06:05 PM
I cannot even fathom why someone would think it would be best for the Chiefs to trade for Cousins instead of drafting one of these QB's.

Diehard
12-19-2012, 06:43 PM
I think this is a case where need trumps all. There is *no* way the Chiefs can justify taking another DL (Star) in round 1 with the offensive failure they've been suffering (unless they can work a trade for a credible veteran starter).

It seems clear that the Quinn/Cassel + Daboll combination is the root of all evil in this situation... so draft Geno Smith and bring in a OC who can work with his talents.

no bare feet
12-20-2012, 07:17 AM
This thread is full of all the lols especially since tmljeh19 started posting

vidae
12-20-2012, 08:46 AM
If i were the cheifs i would swap firsts with the pats for ryan mallett

So we'd give up number 1 overall for a pick in the late 20s or 30s to get Ryan Mallett? What?

And I'm surprised no one has responded to this post. If I'm Kansas City I think I'd rather have Cousins for a third round pick (the first pick of the third, I'm assuming) and keep the first two for other positions.

This is the same thing we've ALWAYS DONE. ALWAYS. Get someone elses QB. And to be honest, the same question is raised here: WHO do we take first overall? What other position?

It's QB or bust, and that's it. Nothing else makes the least bit of sense.

I cannot even fathom why someone would think it would be best for the Chiefs to trade for Cousins instead of drafting one of these QB's.

I can't either.

Grizzlegom
12-20-2012, 08:55 AM
This is the same thing we've ALWAYS DONE. ALWAYS. Get someone elses QB. And to be honest, the same question is raised here: WHO do we take first overall? What other position?

It's QB or bust, and that's it. Nothing else makes the least bit of sense.

As a fan of a team that just ended its run of doing exactly this (taking QBs in the mid-rounds of the draft and signing/trading for other teams' backups to have them compete), I completely agree with viddy here. The Chiefs have to take a chance on their own QB in the first round. If they do anything else, they'll regret it big-time.

KaneMarko
12-20-2012, 09:14 AM
I cannot even fathom why someone would think it would be best for the Chiefs to trade for Cousins instead of drafting one of these QB's.

The Chiefs have been going after and relying on other team's backups and leftovers for decades. Literally. And it hasn't worked. Well, not since Len Dawson 40+ years ago. I'm not sure why there is this segment of people that want us to do it yet again with Cousin or Alex Smith or whoever. It's WAY past time for the Chiefs to draft and develop THEIR OWN franchise signal caller instead of feasting on leftovers. The list of QBs that the Chiefs have gone after that were castoffs from other teams is long and littered with failures. The closest they've come to being successful with that was probably Joe Montana back in 93. But, that was Joe Freaking Montana.

The best route for the Chiefs is to draft and develop their own QB. Not rely on someone else's leftovers. Because that hasn't worked.

FUNBUNCHER
12-20-2012, 09:50 AM
Captain Kirk Cousins is the second coming of Trent Green. I think the guy is a ten+ year starter who can be a top 10 QB for his NFL career.

Chiefs IMO should look into it since a 2nd and maybe a mid/lower round pick in 2014 would get the deal done.

But I wouldn't do it unless the Chiefs had Cousins rated very highly before the 2012 draft and are in love with him now.

vidae
12-20-2012, 10:02 AM
But I wouldn't do it unless the Chiefs had Cousins rated very highly before the 2012 draft and are in love with him now.

If they had him highly rated they probably would have drafted him before he went in the 4th round.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-20-2012, 10:49 AM
Captain Kirk Cousins is the second coming of Trent Green. I think the guy is a ten+ year starter who can be a top 10 QB for his NFL career.

Chiefs IMO should look into it since a 2nd and maybe a mid/lower round pick in 2014 would get the deal done.

But I wouldn't do it unless the Chiefs had Cousins rated very highly before the 2012 draft and are in love with him now.

yeah, uuummmmm.... thanks, but no thanks. the Chiefs had every opportunity to draft Cousins if they liked him. they did not. of course keep in mind the talent evaluator hasn't been all that good @ his job. it isn't Cousins that makes the equation bad. its the Chiefs trading for anothers QB.

i will reiterate what EVERY Chiefs fans has already posted. this franchise needs to DRAFT a QB in the 1st round the they believe will be the best QB in this draft. there is no other choice here. this town will revolt. imma steal a lyric from Sublime Riots on the streets of Kansas City trading for another teams BU isn't going to be the long term answer. can anyone remember the last time a QB the Chiefs drafted won a game? made a playoff appearance? exactly. it's been a while. gotta start now.

Witten4HOF
12-20-2012, 10:56 AM
I agree with a lot of the comments that Scott and Shane talked about in the podcast about it is time to select a QB with a prime pick. That being said if they aren't fans of Geno or Barkley they shouldn't be strong handed to reach for someone they don't want.

I think in that case it could be in their best interest to draft down into the mid teens and target someone like Tyler Wilson who has experience in a pro type system at Arkansas. With the rookie wage scale it is a whole lot easier to navigate trades even without a lock at #1. Teams will be hungry to get their targets and can make decent offers to jump up and snatch their man ala Dallas with Mo Claiborne last year.

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 11:00 AM
I cannot even fathom why someone would think it would be best for the Chiefs to trade for Cousins instead of drafting one of these QB's.

didn't you see Cousins tear to shreds that dominant Browns defense? Dude is a freaking stud. Don't compare him to scrubs like Geno and Tyler. Pls go.

vidae
12-20-2012, 11:03 AM
I think in that case it could be in their best interest to draft down into the mid teens and target someone like Tyler Wilson who has experience in a pro type system at Arkansas. With the rookie wage scale it is a whole lot easier to navigate trades even without a lock at #1. Teams will be hungry to get their targets and can make decent offers to jump up and snatch their man ala Dallas with Mo Claiborne last year.

Who is going to trade up to #1? And for what prospect? There isn't that OMG ELITE prospect this year that teams are going to be clamoring for. It will be extremely difficult to move back so the Chiefs should just take their favorite QB and roll the dice.

Witten4HOF
12-20-2012, 11:12 AM
Who is going to trade up to #1? And for what prospect? There isn't that OMG ELITE prospect this year that teams are going to be clamoring for. It will be extremely difficult to move back so the Chiefs should just take their favorite QB and roll the dice.

Thats my point with this new rookie wage scale it doesn't matter. Cleveland could move up to get a pass rusher or New Orleans goes up to get Star or Jarvis. It all depends on how KC sells it, no they won't get a furture first for the next three years but the sure as hell can move down and pick up an extra 2nd.

May not sound like much but having a second round pick and the guy you want is a hell of a lot better then picking someone that your not comfortable with.

Unbiased
12-20-2012, 11:54 AM
No general manager is uncomfortable with drafting someone #1. They tirelessly scout the players. They interview the players, his coaches, and his teammates.

Only amateur "scouts" on the internet like myself would ever be uncomfortable with drafting someone at the top.

Witten4HOF
12-20-2012, 12:06 PM
No general manager is uncomfortable with drafting someone #1. They tirelessly scout the players. They interview the players, his coaches, and his teammates.

Only amateur "scouts" on the internet like myself would ever be uncomfortable with drafting someone at the top.

Of course that is that case and that was the point I was making. If they dont like what they are looking at position/value wise it isn't impossible to move down.

RCAChainGang
12-20-2012, 12:06 PM
Who is going to trade up to #1? And for what prospect? There isn't that OMG ELITE prospect this year that teams are going to be clamoring for. It will be extremely difficult to move back so the Chiefs should just take their favorite QB and roll the dice.

Star is the only player I could see being that kind of prospect, but I don't think anyone will trade for the #1 slot for him. So basically I agree with you. You kinda need a OMG QB prospect to have someone trade to #1.

D-Unit
12-20-2012, 01:47 PM
I think the Chiefs will select Damontre Moore.

vidae
12-20-2012, 02:08 PM
I think the Chiefs will select Damontre Moore.

What the hell for? That doesn't fill a need at all.

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 02:13 PM
What the hell for? That doesn't fill a need at all.

Brian. Bulaga.

vidae
12-20-2012, 02:14 PM
Brian. Bulaga.

RT was actually a big need then though.

SuperPacker
12-20-2012, 02:15 PM
I think the Chiefs will select Damontre Moore.

They have Tamba Hali and Justin Houston. Why on earth would they select another outside linebacker..WITH THE FIRST PICK?!

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 02:23 PM
RT was actually a big need then though.

dammit vidae i've been in the library for 6 hours now and I try and make a funny and this is what I get?!?!!

fine.

vidae
12-20-2012, 02:30 PM
dammit vidae i've been in the library for 6 hours now and I try and make a funny and this is what I get?!?!!

fine.

Oh, you're in the library? MAYBE YOU CAN LOOK UP WHAT THE WORD FUNNY MEANS!

Yeah. I went there.

DeepThreat
12-20-2012, 02:33 PM
I think the Chiefs will select Damontre Moore.

That would be the worst pick since Tyson Jackson.

But worse. Much worse.

descendency
12-20-2012, 03:24 PM
The Chiefs should trade Glenn Dorsey to NE for peanuts and draft Star L...

vidae
12-20-2012, 03:45 PM
The Chiefs should trade Glenn Dorsey to NE for peanuts and draft Star L...

You can have Dorsey AND keep the peanuts.

I want Dorsey to go to a 4-3 team and hopefully revitalize his career. He wasn't as bad as people made him out to be as a 3-4 DE, but he could be better in a different scheme.

Witten4HOF
12-20-2012, 04:02 PM
You can have Dorsey AND keep the peanuts.

I want Dorsey to go to a 4-3 team and hopefully revitalize his career. He wasn't as bad as people made him out to be as a 3-4 DE, but he could be better in a different scheme.

Do you like Poe at NT or do you feel like it is going to be a lost cause? He could possibly get a look at 5-tech if they dump Dorsey.

vidae
12-20-2012, 04:06 PM
Do you like Poe at NT or do you feel like it is going to be a lost cause? He could possibly get a look at 5-tech if they dump Dorsey.

Poe has actually played pretty well this year. I was a big fan of the selection at the time but I thought it would take a while for him to get where he's at now.

tmljeh19
12-20-2012, 04:31 PM
Would Washington even trade him for that? The 2nd round pick would probably make more sense, although I think that could be too much.

IMO a 3rd would never do it. Washington doesn't have to trade him. Its a different story for someone like Sanchez. Cousins is proving to be a good back up to RG3. Washington knows they wont be keeping Kirk for long but giving him away for a 3rd is not gonna happen.

tmljeh19
12-20-2012, 04:33 PM
This thread is full of all the lols especially since tmljeh19 started posting

what is so "lol" about Geno and Barkley not being clear cut #1 overall talent as of right now? I want for this brilliant explanation...

tmljeh19
12-20-2012, 04:41 PM
yeah, uuummmmm.... thanks, but no thanks. the Chiefs had every opportunity to draft Cousins if they liked him. they did not. of course keep in mind the talent evaluator hasn't been all that good @ his job. it isn't Cousins that makes the equation bad. its the Chiefs trading for anothers QB.

i will reiterate what EVERY Chiefs fans has already posted. this franchise needs to DRAFT a QB in the 1st round the they believe will be the best QB in this draft. there is no other choice here. this town will revolt. imma steal a lyric from Sublime trading for another teams BU isn't going to be the long term answer. can anyone remember the last time a QB the Chiefs drafted won a game? made a playoff appearance? exactly. it's been a while. gotta start now.

Im a Redskins fan and I would love to trade Cousins to KC for their 2nd but it isnt whats best for KC. I would pull the trigger on Geno or Barkley if I was them even though I dont think either is going to be a the answer to their problem unless they get someone that can maximize Geno's talents.

vidae
12-20-2012, 04:42 PM
Im a Redskins fan and I would love to trade Cousins to KC for their 2nd but it isnt whats best for KC. I would pull the trigger on Geno or Barkley if I was them even though I dont think either is going to be a the answer to their problem unless they get someone that can maximize Geno's talents.

We'll know more whenever the new GM and HC are hired. Once the staff starts getting into place it could go a long way to making me feel better about a rookie QB. Or worse.

Bengals78
12-20-2012, 05:04 PM
Oh, you're in the library? MAYBE YOU CAN LOOK UP WHAT THE WORD FUNNY MEANS!

Yeah. I went there.

Is this what funny means?

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/3033732_o.gif

vidae
12-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Is this what funny means?

You make me so sad.

Brent
12-20-2012, 05:43 PM
Is this what funny means?
I think it means this

http://a.fn.fncdn.com/images/content/4/201204091412/pbvwxj.jpg

Babylon
12-20-2012, 05:44 PM
The Chiefs should trade Glenn Dorsey to NE for peanuts and draft Star L...

If i'm drafting a DL that high i'd like to see him be able to get to the QB.

Caulibflower
12-20-2012, 06:07 PM
If i'm drafting a DL that high i'd like to see him be able to get to the QB.

Clearly, you would not fit in among the rest of the Chiefs front office.

Bengals78
12-20-2012, 06:13 PM
I think it means this

http://a.fn.fncdn.com/images/content/4/201204091412/pbvwxj.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr40gt7FrS1qly9zdo1_400.gif

Bucs_Rule
12-20-2012, 08:02 PM
You can have Dorsey AND keep the peanuts.

I want Dorsey to go to a 4-3 team and hopefully revitalize his career. He wasn't as bad as people made him out to be as a 3-4 DE, but he could be better in a different scheme.

The Chiefs might become a 4-3. The talent is much better suited for 3-4, coaches have switched alignement before despite a talent disparity.

KCStud
12-23-2012, 08:00 PM
The Chiefs rushed for 350 yards and held Indy's offense to 13 points holding Andrew Luck in check all day....and we still lost.

And people still think KC shouldn't draft a QB with the first pick. Blows my mind.

rawdawg
12-23-2012, 08:59 PM
You can have Dorsey AND keep the peanuts.

I want Dorsey to go to a 4-3 team and hopefully revitalize his career. He wasn't as bad as people made him out to be as a 3-4 DE, but he could be better in a different scheme.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say Dorsey's a Bear next year. While Emery didn't get to KC until after the 2008 draft, he should be pretty familiar w/ Dorsey from his KC days. Also, the Bears have a history of going after D-linemen who were top picks that haven't quite put it together, that they hope would excel in their scheme. Amobi Okoye, Gaines Adams, Brian Price all come to mind.

bored of education
12-24-2012, 07:17 AM
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1822ayrzhsq8sgif/original.gif

No, we don't need a quarterback in KC.

He cannot throw a pass with his helmet...off..oh

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/GENO-SMITH-HELMET-THIEVERY.gif
http://show-me-your-tds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/dana-holgorsen-geno-smith-dance.gif

Saints-Tigers
12-24-2012, 02:34 PM
The Chiefs do need a QB. Sucks that there isn't a good one for them to take. They are where I wanted Luck to go last year, love their young core.

y.f.s.
12-24-2012, 03:20 PM
The Chiefs might become a 4-3. The talent is much better suited for 3-4, coaches have switched alignement before despite a talent disparity.

They don't need to fully switch to a 4-3, but I think it'd be a much better idea for them to go to a 1-gap 3-4 and get some more versatile players for the interior. I think it'd help them get more from Poe quickly, too. 0-tech NT is just a long developmental position.

But they need to take a QB first overall.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 03:31 PM
I haven't scouted the QBs this year, but I did see some of Tyler Wilson, and I like him. He's no Luck or RGIII, but you guys have to get that out of your head. That was once in every 10 years type of qb draft class, it's not happening again, but just bc a guy isn't Andrew Luck doesn't mean he can't be a franchise qb.

I think Tyler has potential.

vidae
12-24-2012, 04:28 PM
They don't need to fully switch to a 4-3, but I think it'd be a much better idea for them to go to a 1-gap 3-4 and get some more versatile players for the interior. I think it'd help them get more from Poe quickly, too. 0-tech NT is just a long developmental position.

But they need to take a QB first overall.

Yes please to the 1-gap. I think RAC is the only coach still running a 2-gap, unless I'm mistaken?

TonyGfortheTD
12-24-2012, 05:53 PM
They don't need to fully switch to a 4-3, but I think it'd be a much better idea for them to go to a 1-gap 3-4 and get some more versatile players for the interior. I think it'd help them get more from Poe quickly, too. 0-tech NT is just a long developmental position.

But they need to take a QB first overall.
No disagreements with that here.

tmljeh19
12-24-2012, 07:05 PM
The Chiefs do need a QB. Sucks that there isn't a good one for them to take. They are where I wanted Luck to go last year, love their young core.

Exactly my point. Its blatantly obvious that its their biggest need. The problem is there isnt one worthy of number 1 status so they will have to pull the trigger on one and hope for the best.

vidae
12-24-2012, 07:20 PM
A lot can change between now and April.

It doesn't matter to me anyway. I'm taking Geno #1 right now and not caring about perceived value.

49ers1984
12-25-2012, 11:49 AM
The Chiefs rushed for 350 yards and held Indy's offense to 13 points holding Andrew Luck in check all day....and we still lost.

And people still think KC shouldn't draft a QB with the first pick. Blows my mind.

If you do not think that the QB is going to be a franchise QB then it does make sense not to draft one. Why not draft more of a sure thing at another position then draft a QB you are not sure about? Why do people assume there is no good QBs later or you can not get a QB through trade or free agency? People are way to enamored with taking QBs early when they are not that good. Just ask Jacksonville or Minnesota how that has been working for them this year.

vidae
12-25-2012, 11:54 AM
If you do not think that the QB is going to be a franchise QB then it does make sense not to draft one. Why not draft more of a sure thing at another position then draft a QB you are not sure about? Why do people assume there is no good QBs later or you can not get a QB through trade or free agency? People are way to enamored with taking QBs early when they are not that good. Just ask Jacksonville or Minnesota how that has been working for them this year.

The Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round in three decades. It's no wonder that the franchise has been largely irrelevant in that time. I'm sick of trading for another teams backup or off the scrap heap. We have to be done with that.

And you list Jacksonville and Minnesota as reasons to not do it. When I look at those teams I'm envious. At least they're attempting to fix the most important position in sports. At least they're trying.

And at #1, there are no other glaring needs for this team. There is no WR worthy of a top 10 selection, there is no need for another DT or an OT. QB is the biggest need and we'll be in the position to draft the best one. We have to do it.

princefielder28
12-25-2012, 01:55 PM
Tyler Wilson, Geno Smith, and Mike Glennon all have the skill sets to be successful in the NFL. The most important decision for the Chiefs will be bringing in a coach and philosophy that matches well with whichever quarterback they select. It sounds like a simple concept but far too often in the league we see teams try to plug in players who have "talent" but don't necessarily fit the team's system/philosophy. Seeing who the Chiefs bring in this off-season may give us a strong indication of which quarterback ultimately goes number one.

Dangermouse
12-25-2012, 02:11 PM
Personally, if there's not a QB I like to be THE FRANCHISE, I'm not taking him with the first pick.


Now I haven't scouted this draft enough yet, but I'd I'm the KC GM and I don't fall in love with a guy, here's what I'm gonna do.


I'm gonna add a veteran QB that can win games, maybe Alex Smith if I can get him, if not then maybe somebody like Matt Moore. Just somebody I know I can win games with.


Then I'm gonna go BPA with the top pick and build a great defense/running game/weapons around my solid QB.

Then on day 2 I'm adding a QB that can possibly be successful to compete with the veteran.


Then I'll look to get a QB in the first next year and add him onto my great team.

vidae
12-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Personally, if there's not a QB I like to be THE FRANCHISE, I'm not taking him with the first pick.


Now I haven't scouted this draft enough yet, but I'd I'm the KC GM and I don't fall in love with a guy, here's what I'm gonna do.


I'm gonna add a veteran QB that can win games, maybe Alex Smith if I can get him, if not then maybe somebody like Matt Moore. Just somebody I know I can win games with.


Then I'm gonna go BPA with the top pick and build a great defense/running game/weapons around my solid QB.

Then on day 2 I'm adding a QB that can possibly be successful to compete with the veteran.


Then I'll look to get a QB in the first next year and add him onto my great team.

We've done the veteran QB / add "talent" route for years. It doesn't work here.

SuperPacker
12-25-2012, 02:21 PM
Personally, if there's not a QB I like to be THE FRANCHISE, I'm not taking him with the first pick.


Now I haven't scouted this draft enough yet, but I'd I'm the KC GM and I don't fall in love with a guy, here's what I'm gonna do.


I'm gonna add a veteran QB that can win games, maybe Alex Smith if I can get him, if not then maybe somebody like Matt Moore. Just somebody I know I can win games with.


Then I'm gonna go BPA with the top pick and build a great defense/running game/weapons around my solid QB.

Then on day 2 I'm adding a QB that can possibly be successful to compete with the veteran.


Then I'll look to get a QB in the first next year and add him onto my great team.

No one the Chiefs could draft with the 1st pick would make sense. Taking the BPA will just mean wasting a high pick on a position they dont need players, instead of taking a QB that can turn their franchise around.

And you're assuming they'll be able to get a QB on on day 2. There is no guarantee that one will be available. Then if they were to get a QB on day 2, why would they then get one the next year in the first? That makes no sense.

Also, with an Alex Smith at QB, the Chiefs would win enough games to push them out of the reach of good QB's, but they definitely wouldn't be getting to the playoffs. There would be literally nothing good coming from that situation other than setting the franchise even further back.

Taking a QB with the #1 pick is the only option for them. If you fail to see otherwise then I don't know what to say.

bruschis4all
12-25-2012, 03:11 PM
No one the Chiefs could draft with the 1st pick would make sense. Taking the BPA will just mean wasting a high pick on a position they dont need players, instead of taking a QB that can turn their franchise around.

And you're assuming they'll be able to get a QB on on day 2. There is no guarantee that one will be available. Then if they were to get a QB on day 2, why would they then get one the next year in the first? That makes no sense.

Also, with an Alex Smith at QB, the Chiefs would win enough games to push them out of the reach of good QB's, but they definitely wouldn't be getting to the playoffs. There would be literally nothing good coming from that situation other than setting the franchise even further back.

Taking a QB with the #1 pick is the only option for them. If you fail to see otherwise then I don't know what to say.

We've seen recent examples of that not being true. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Might even have another example this year. Russell Wilson. Seems that unless your a Manning brother. More fail than succeed.

Top 5 PIcks Working Out
Peyton Manning - 1998
Donovan McNabb - 1999
Eli Manning - 2004
Philip Rivers - 2004
Matt Ryan - 2008

Not Working Out
Ryan Leaf 1998
Tim Couch 1999
Akili Smith 1999
David Carr 2002
Joey Harrington 2002
Alex Smith 2005
Vince Young 2006
Jamarcus Russell 2007
Mark Sanchez 2009

Had their moments but really didn't work out
Mike Vick 2001
Carson Palmer 2003

Too Early To Tell
Matt Stafford 2009
Cam Newton 2010

Let's look where this year's playoff qb's were drafted
Tom Brady 199
Joe Flacco 18th Traded up from 26 after trading down to that spot
Matt Schaub 115
Peyton Manning 1st
Andy Dalton 35
Andrew Luck 1st

RGIII 2nd Romo - Free Agent
Aaron Rodgers 24th
Matt Ryan 3rd
Colin Kaepernick 36
Russell Wilson 75
Christian Ponder 12th Playoff qb....LOL

Looks to me that unless you were graded a super, super prospect. Like the Manning Brothers or Andrew Luck. Most of the others just don't live up to their rep. Geno Smith fits the profile more of a Couch, Stafford or David Carr than either Manning or Luck. Time will tell.

TACKLE
12-25-2012, 05:01 PM
correlation does not imply causation.

vidae
12-25-2012, 05:04 PM
Looks to me that unless you were graded a super, super prospect. Like the Manning Brothers or Andrew Luck. Most of the others just don't live up to their rep. Geno Smith fits the profile more of a Couch, Stafford or David Carr than either Manning or Luck. Time will tell.

Then it's settled, I'll take a QB as good as Stafford 100 times out of 100. He threw for 5k yards and 40 TDs last year and for over 4k yards this year. I would KILL for that.

bruschis4all
12-25-2012, 05:59 PM
Then it's settled, I'll take a QB as good as Stafford 100 times out of 100. He threw for 5k yards and 40 TDs last year and for over 4k yards this year. I would KILL for that.

And, Detroit is 4-11. Because, judging qb's on passing yards is kinda silly.

SuperPacker
12-25-2012, 06:01 PM
And, Detroit is 4-11. Because, judging qb's on passing yards is kinda silly.

And the Saints are 7-8. Does that mean Drew Brees is only an average NFL quarterback?

Judging qb's on team wins is kinda silly.

Mufasa
12-25-2012, 06:02 PM
And, Detroit is 4-11. Because, judging qb's on passing yards is kinda silly.

And last year Detroit was 10-6 and made the playoffs. Because, judging QBs on the team record of one season is kinda silly.

Cigaro
12-25-2012, 07:04 PM
The only "number one overall" type talents in this draft for me would be either Star Lotulelei or Luke Joeckel (and Joeckel is very borderline in this category). Kansas City has absolutely no need for another big defensive lineman as far as I'm aware, nor do they need to replace Branden Albert. Quarterback is the only option that makes sense at that spot.

bruschis4all
12-25-2012, 07:08 PM
A little testy Lions fans, eh? When Stafford starts to win divisions, gets to championship games and finally wins super bowls. Get real. No comparision to the two. When Stafford steps up and leads his team during the off-season like Brees does call me. Matter of fact, call me when Stafford grows up. He gets his yardage because he's throwing to the best athlete in the history of the NFL. Not because he diligently prepares himself to becoming a championship quarterback. He's unable to even repeat his throwing motion on successive passes. Can't believe you guys had the nerve to compare Stafford to a team leader like Brees.

SuperPacker
12-25-2012, 07:13 PM
A little testy Lions fans, eh? When Stafford starts to win divisions, gets to championship games and finally wins super bowls. Get real. No comparision to the two. When Stafford steps up and leads his team during the off-season like Brees does call me. Matter of fact, call me when Stafford grows up. He gets his yardage because he's throwing to the best athlete in the history of the NFL. Not because he diligently prepares himself to becoming a championship quarterback. He's unable to even repeat his throwing motion on successive passes. Can't believe you guys had the nerve to compare Stafford to a team leader like Brees.

Because i'm clearly a Lions fan. :njx:

And what the **** are you talking about, I never compared Drew Brees to Stafford. My point was that the number of wins a team has, doesn't determine how good the starting QB is. Which is what you were trying to say.

Mufasa
12-25-2012, 07:17 PM
A little testy Lions fans, eh? When Stafford starts to win divisions, gets to championship games and finally wins super bowls. Get real. No comparision to the two. When Stafford steps up and leads his team during the off-season like Brees does call me. Matter of fact, call me when Stafford grows up. He gets his yardage because he's throwing to the best athlete in the history of the NFL. Not because he diligently prepares himself to becoming a championship quarterback. He's unable to even repeat his throwing motion on successive passes. Can't believe you guys had the nerve to compare Stafford to a team leader like Brees.

I never even mentioned Brees.

Besides, you're the one making idiotic comparisons. Grouping Stafford with Tim Couch and David Carr, get the **** out of here with that ****.

bruschis4all
12-25-2012, 07:20 PM
Because i'm clearly a Lions fan. :njx:

And what the **** are you talking about, I never compared Drew Brees to Stafford. My point was that the number of wins a team has, doesn't determine how good the starting QB is. Which is what you were trying to say.

When your quarterback rating drops to under 80pct despite throwing to Calvin Johnson and your win total drops from 10 to 4. The qb is damn well responsible for a big portion of that. I can't think of too many qb's in a position similiar to him who lead their team to 4-12 records. And, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the Lion fan in the thread.

49ers1984
12-26-2012, 06:04 AM
The Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round in three decades. It's no wonder that the franchise has been largely irrelevant in that time. I'm sick of trading for another teams backup or off the scrap heap. We have to be done with that.

And you list Jacksonville and Minnesota as reasons to not do it. When I look at those teams I'm envious. At least they're attempting to fix the most important position in sports. At least they're trying.

And at #1, there are no other glaring needs for this team. There is no WR worthy of a top 10 selection, there is no need for another DT or an OT. QB is the biggest need and we'll be in the position to draft the best one. We have to do it.

There is more then drafting bad QB'S that is why they have been bad. Jacksonville and Minnesota are trying sure but failing so if what good is trying if it is not helping them? There is more then one way to get the QB you want you could trade or get one in free agency but overreaching for one is not it. Why are you assuming all the good QBs are in the first round plenty of good QBs have been found in later rounds just as many first overall picks have been busts.There is no other glaring need really how are you that bad and only need one position are you even watching the games?:facepalm:

vidae
12-26-2012, 08:57 AM
There is more then drafting bad QB'S that is why they have been bad. Jacksonville and Minnesota are trying sure but failing so if what good is trying if it is not helping them? There is more then one way to get the QB you want you could trade or get one in free agency but overreaching for one is not it. Why are you assuming all the good QBs are in the first round plenty of good QBs have been found in later rounds just as many first overall picks have been busts.There is no other glaring need really how are you that bad and only need one position are you even watching the games?:facepalm:

I'm honestly not sure how to respond to any of this.

Halsey
12-26-2012, 09:14 AM
There's always people that say "don't reach for a QB" before a Draft, yet many of the successful QBs in the league were viewed as "reaches" when they were drafted. You're only reaching if the QB doesn't turn out to be a quality starter. Cherry picking guys who have not played well doesn't mean it's always bad to "reach" for a QB.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2012, 09:38 AM
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.

KaneMarko
12-26-2012, 10:48 AM
yeah, uuummmmm.... thanks, but no thanks. the Chiefs had every opportunity to draft Cousins if they liked him. they did not. of course keep in mind the talent evaluator hasn't been all that good @ his job. it isn't Cousins that makes the equation bad. its the Chiefs trading for anothers QB.

i will reiterate what EVERY Chiefs fans has already posted. this franchise needs to DRAFT a QB in the 1st round the they believe will be the best QB in this draft. there is no other choice here. this town will revolt. imma steal a lyric from Sublime trading for another teams BU isn't going to be the long term answer. can anyone remember the last time a QB the Chiefs drafted won a game? made a playoff appearance? exactly. it's been a while. gotta start now.


This was a trivia question recently. The answer is: Todd Blackledge 1987

Which is so sad it's almost funny.

y.f.s.
12-26-2012, 10:52 AM
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.

This, this, this, this.

Everybody wants to "build an awesome team" so the QB doesn't even have to do anything. Problem is that style has little-to-no margin for error to have any consistency season-to-season. Even if you catch lightning in a bottle with a David Garrard, it's still going to be really difficult to have any type of sustained success.

Good QBs reduce EVERYONE ELSE'S margin for error. Average/bad QBs force everybody else to be perfect. If you're a GM, which situation would you rather have?

KaneMarko
12-26-2012, 10:55 AM
The Chiefs rushed for 350 yards and held Indy's offense to 13 points holding Andrew Luck in check all day....and we still lost.

And people still think KC shouldn't draft a QB with the first pick. Blows my mind.

The Chiefs are currently the 32nd ranked scoring offense in the NFL with 13.9 points/game. Almost 2 full points worse thanthe 31st ranked Jags in scoring. The Chiefs offense needs to be focused on STRONGLY in the offseason. And they better find a way to keep Albert. And, I know many will disgree, but they might also want to ink Bowe to a 4 or 5 year deal because he's the ONLY real receiving threat the Chiefs have short of swing passes to RBs and little dumpoffs to McCluster.

Chiefs need a QB desperately out of this draft. Probably 2. And they might also want to spend a pick or two on receivers.

KaneMarko
12-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Yes please to the 1-gap. I think RAC is the only coach still running a 2-gap, unless I'm mistaken?

You may be right. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't even think the Pats run that style of 3-4 any more, do they?

KaneMarko
12-26-2012, 11:01 AM
We've done the veteran QB / add "talent" route for years. It doesn't work here.

Exactly v. That's been the Chiefs' formula for decades and it hasn't worked. The Chiefs are playing solid defense now and running the hell out of the ball and are still the favorite for the #1 pick in the draft.

In general, that formula of football doesn't work in the NFL. Sure there are exceptions. The 9ers almost pulled it off last year. And the Steelers did it with a similar formula. But the successful teams nowadays are winning through the air and racking up points.

It's time for the Chiefs to try a new formula.

KaneMarko
12-26-2012, 11:09 AM
There is more then drafting bad QB'S that is why they have been bad. Jacksonville and Minnesota are trying sure but failing so if what good is trying if it is not helping them? There is more then one way to get the QB you want you could trade or get one in free agency but overreaching for one is not it. Why are you assuming all the good QBs are in the first round plenty of good QBs have been found in later rounds just as many first overall picks have been busts.There is no other glaring need really how are you that bad and only need one position are you even watching the games?:facepalm:

The Chiefs have tried finding QBs later in the draft with ZERO success. Also, they have tried getting FA QBs with ZERO success. They've tried trading for other team's backups with, again, ZERO success. They haven't spent a first round pick on a QB since 1983. And no DRAFTED Chiefs QB has won a game for this franchise since Todd Blackledge in 1987. Doesn't that just seem a little odd to you?

Between Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, and Dontari Poe, the Chiefs have 3 top 11 picks on their defensive line (although Dorsey is likely to be gone after this year). The Chiefs do not need to be spending another high pick on a defensive lineman. And if they re-sign Albert (which, if they know what's good for them they will), there really isn't any need to go after Joeckel with Albert and Winston on the edges.

San Diego Chicken
12-26-2012, 01:17 PM
Here's what I'm wondering. Since its a generally accepted that KC should draft a QB, what should Jacksonville do? They're sort of in the same spot, having drafted OL and DL recently. Is their QB situation any better? As a Charger fan I would gladly trade up with them for Joeckel and I'd imagine other teams would too. But perhaps they see themselves in the same boat as KC and just can't pass up a QB despite having just recently drafted one.

y.f.s.
12-26-2012, 01:24 PM
Here's what I'm wondering. Since its a generally accepted that KC should draft a QB, what should Jacksonville do? They're sort of in the same spot, having drafted OL and DL recently. Is their QB situation any better? As a Charger fan I would gladly trade up with them for Joeckel and I'd imagine other teams would too. But perhaps they see themselves in the same boat as KC and just can't pass up a QB despite having just recently drafted one.

I would very much like them to draft a QB. Their entire roster is in much worse shape than KC's though.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2012, 01:39 PM
This, this, this, this.

Everybody wants to "build an awesome team" so the QB doesn't even have to do anything. Problem is that style has little-to-no margin for error to have any consistency season-to-season. Even if you catch lightning in a bottle with a David Garrard, it's still going to be really difficult to have any type of sustained success.

Good QBs reduce EVERYONE ELSE'S margin for error. Average/bad QBs force everybody else to be perfect. If you're a GM, which situation would you rather have?

Not only that, but it makes no sense because when your team peaks, your qb isn't ready to take advantage of them with a SB run, and by year 4 when your qb is ready, your talent is old and needs to be redone, so then you need another 3 years to rebuild around your qb, and you just wasted 3 years of your qb's prime because you didn't set the team up to peak with the qb at the same time.

So instead of potentially having a SB team in 4 years, you'll have 1 in 7 years. It's poor roster management.

Babylon
12-26-2012, 01:42 PM
I would very much like them to draft a QB. Their entire roster is in much worse shape than KC's though.

I'd play around with Tebow and Gabbert (a pair to draw to) next year, then go after a better QB in 2014 when that plan didn't work.

As for the Chefs i have been solidly in the camp that said there isn't a QB worthy of the top pick. Having thought about that, there isn't a non QB out there worthy of the top pick either. Go after the QB and let the chips fall where they may.

San Diego Chicken
12-26-2012, 01:44 PM
I would very much like them to draft a QB. Their entire roster is in much worse shape than KC's though.

Let's make a deal.

San Diego Chicken
12-26-2012, 01:51 PM
I'd play around with Tebow and Gabbert (a pair to draw to) next year, then go after a better QB in 2014 when that plan didn't work.

As for the Chefs i have been solidly in the camp that said there isn't a QB worthy of the top pick. Having thought about that, there isn't a non QB out there worthy of the top pick either. Go after the QB and let the chips fall where they may.

It's interesting, Russ Lande just came out with a top 200 yesterday (I'd link but I think it's against forum rules). He doesn't have a QB ranked in the first round range. Glennon is his top QB at #32. Also kinda surprising that he only has a second round grade on Damontre Moore at #49, while everyone else sees him going top 10. He also has Jones ranked very low. This is going to be one of those drafts without much consensus.

gpngc
12-26-2012, 02:44 PM
........So who is kc actually going to take?

vidae
12-26-2012, 03:04 PM
It's December. Who knows.

49ers1984
12-26-2012, 04:50 PM
The Chiefs have tried finding QBs later in the draft with ZERO success. Also, they have tried getting FA QBs with ZERO success. They've tried trading for other team's backups with, again, ZERO success. They haven't spent a first round pick on a QB since 1983. And no DRAFTED Chiefs QB has won a game for this franchise since Todd Blackledge in 1987. Doesn't that just seem a little odd to you?

Between Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, and Dontari Poe, the Chiefs have 3 top 11 picks on their defensive line (although Dorsey is likely to be gone after this year). The Chiefs do not need to be spending another high pick on a defensive lineman. And if they re-sign Albert (which, if they know what's good for them they will), there really isn't any need to go after Joeckel with Albert and Winston on the edges.

So why overreach for QBs who do not look they will be franchise players then? Just closing your eyes and hoping for the best is a great way to continue to have a losing team. If this QB class was like last years then okay you have Griffen and Luck who had franchise potential. What QB in this draft have you seen that will improve your team? Just because getting a QB in the past with free agency or trade does not mean it can not happen. I guess people never learn from the Ryan Leaf picks.

farfromforgotten
12-26-2012, 05:19 PM
So why overreach for QBs who do not look they will be franchise players then? Just closing your eyes and hoping for the best is a great way to continue to have a losing team. If this QB class was like last years then okay you have Griffen and Luck who had franchise potential. What QB in this draft have you seen that will improve your team? Just because getting a QB in the past with free agency or trade does not mean it can not happen. I guess people never learn from the Ryan Leaf picks.

Maybe closing their eyes and hoping for the best is something they should try? I take it they have actually scouted QB's in past drafts and researched free agents in the off seasons. What has that gotten them? Still a not very good team, I'd say.

Like I, and others, have said - what good does drafting all the surrounding talent do when you don't have a franchise QB in place? They drafted Dwayne Bowe. Great pick. Legit #1 WR in the NFL. He's probably leaving. Still don't have a franchise QB in place. Drafted all kinds of O and D lineman. What for? The O-line can protect the QB, right? Settle the O-line and then get your QB! Well, wait a minute... where is the franchise QB? No where to be found. A good QB can make an offensive line look better, rarely can the opposite be said.

Luck and RG3 or anyone of their ilk are not in this draft class, correct. But those type of QB's aren't really in many draft classes... should the Chiefs wait 10-15 years in hopes of drafting the next "can't miss, sure fire stud QB"? If I'm a Chiefs fan, I'd rather go into next season with Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson or even Matt Barkley (whom I don't like that much) at QB then have the team bring back Cassel or Quinn or get a Matt Flynn or whomever.

Lastly, Ryan Leaf was the correct pick. As bad as it turned out to be.

bruschis4all
12-26-2012, 06:11 PM
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.

Nobody is saying ignore picking a qb. Most of those saying don't draft one at the top of the draft would still want you to move up from 33 and get one. Take the BPA at 1. Then, move up from 33 to late teens or early 20's to get your qb. I've seen a few Chiefs fans prefer Tyler Wilson over Geno Smith. Seems very feasible to get Wilson by moving up from 33. Baltimore had a high pick in 09, moved back to 26. Then, back up to get Flacco. Why not be a llittle creative and take advantage of the process? Say Arizona signs a free agent qb and loves Luke Joeckel. Move down and get the extra picks. Pick the BPA. Then move some(prob not have to move all) of those picks to move up and get Tyler Wilson.

Halsey
12-26-2012, 06:18 PM
Why settle for a lesser QB just so you can get a lineman with the #1 pick? Why not take your top rated QB #1 and then go for the "BPA" with all your other picks?

bruschis4all
12-26-2012, 06:27 PM
Why settle for a lesser QB just so you can get a lineman with the #1 pick? Why not take your top rated QB #1 and then go for the "BPA" with all your other picks?

Who says Tyler Wilson is the lesser qb? KC might like him more than Geno Smith. But, knows other teams don't. The BPA at 1 is a lot better than the BPA you're going to get at 33.

Halsey
12-26-2012, 06:32 PM
Who says Tyler Wilson is the lesser qb? KC might like him more than Geno Smith. But, knows other teams don't. The BPA at 1 is a lot better than the BPA you're going to get at 33.

How is KC supposed to know how much other teams like Wilson? If they like him, other teams may like him too. If Wilson is KC's top QB, it can be argued they should just take him #1 overall and worry about less important positions later.

vidae
12-26-2012, 06:57 PM
How is KC supposed to know how much other teams like Wilson? If they like him, other teams may like him too. If Wilson is KC's top QB, it can be argued they should just take him #1 overall and worry about less important positions later.

I want them to take their #1 QB first overall regardless of perceived value.

Well, not completely. Don't take Tyler Bray first overall, but if they love Geno or Tyler or even Glennon (ugh) then take them #1 and don't mess around and try to get cute with trade backs or hoping they're available at #33.

I'm sick of the same crap year after year.

gpngc
12-26-2012, 08:04 PM
You wouldn't be OK with trading No. 33 for Cousins? I think he's better than any
QB this year.

vidae
12-26-2012, 08:12 PM
You wouldn't be OK with trading No. 33 for Cousins? I think he's better than any
QB this year.

If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-26-2012, 08:14 PM
in you opinion Cousins is a "franchise QB"?

vidae
12-26-2012, 08:15 PM
in you opinion Cousins is a "franchise QB"?

He had a whole game and a half to showcase it too! Go Cousins!

gpngc
12-26-2012, 08:15 PM
If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.

Well that was Pioli. Not the new GM.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-26-2012, 08:21 PM
He had a whole game and a half to showcase it too! Go Cousins!

i know. this draft is COMPLETELY DEVOID OF A FRANCHISE QB, but Cousins is the answer. a guy drafted in the 4th round? even if Cousins is a franchise QB (which i don't believe he is), then he would have been worth drafting #1 overall by ANY team, right? so, your telling me it's more likely that Geno, Tyler, Mike, Matt and every other QB in this draft all bust than any one of them becoming good. i highly doubt that. the Chiefs need to evaluate the hell out of each 1 of those guys i just named and take THE ONE THEY THINK IS THE BEST. end of story. drafting any other position does nothing to make this franchise better in the long run

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-26-2012, 08:25 PM
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.

btw, i went back and read the last few pages of this thread that i missed. i think you and i just became best friends.

gpngc
12-26-2012, 08:26 PM
...and evaluate Cousins.

And if they think Cousins is the best they should probably offer a draft pick for him.

And I don't think it's ridiculous to suspect Cousins might be the best considering the college careers of Wilson, Smith, and Glennon.

I'm not saying "TRADE FOR COUSINZ SO YOU CAN UZE NUMBER 1 ON SOMETHIN BETTERZZZZZ." What I'm saying is that Cousins may be the best QB of the bunch.

Mufasa
12-26-2012, 08:32 PM
I think Flynn will be better than Cousins if they both get a chance to start.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-26-2012, 08:35 PM
I'm not saying "TRADE FOR COUSINZ SO YOU CAN UZE NUMBER 1 ON SOMETHIN BETTERZZZZZ." What I'm saying is that Cousins may be the best QB of the bunch.

that genuinely made me lol. i used a great "internet genius" voice when i read it aloud.

to your point, you are right. Cousins needs to be evaluated just the same. God help us all (Chiefs fans) if they get done and he is the best of the bunch. just shot me now, if that happens. i am progressing toward the draft as if he is nowhere near the best available. i got my hopes high.

gpngc
12-26-2012, 08:45 PM
I think Flynn will be better than Cousins if they both get a chance to start.

that genuinely made me lol. i used a great "internet genius" voice when i read it aloud.

to your point, you are right. Cousins needs to be evaluated just the same. God help us all (Chiefs fans) if they get done and he is the best of the bunch. just shot me now, if that happens. i am progressing toward the draft as if he is nowhere near the best available. i got my hopes high.

Flynn and Cousins, to me, are pretty much the same as the draft prospects. I'd evaluate them like crazy if I needed a QB, along with the college group.

Yes it feels less dirty to not draft your own guy, but there are success stories and I'm sure the people in Houston love Schaub as their own, as did those for Favre in Green Bay.

I'm not here to argue passing on a QB. What I'm looking for is the outlook/rough evaluation of __________ based on what we've seen that gives KC fans hope.

I just don't see __________. Who specifically excites Chiefs nation? Is it Smith? Why? Wilson? Why or why not? Glennon? Why or why not.

If I was a Chiefs fan, at this point I'd be excited to take a look at Cousins over those guys.

SuperPacker
12-26-2012, 08:50 PM
Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.

gpngc
12-26-2012, 09:02 PM
Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.

This isn't fair.

Because the year prior had so many dumb reaches at QB, the demand for QBs following the Browns pick of Weeden was extremely low. That's why Cousins (and Wilson for that matter) fell as much as anything else. No one thought they needed a QB at that point (Oakland, KC, Min, Jax, NYJ, Ten, etc. incorrectly).

Shanny even said he was shocked Cousins was still there. Well that was because literally every team in the NFL felt they were set at that position.

He was a pretty good prospect. He didn't have a sensational arm but he was accurate enough an absolute gamer - the heart and soul for some super competitive teams.

Now, being a gamer/intangibles/toughness is usually sketchy for a non-elite QB prospect because those traits can mean one thing at the college level but then not matter at all on the NFL level.

Which leads to his NFL experience showing that those things evidently did translate well in this particular case. That's a fair evaluation considering his performance in limited action this season and the rave reviews he's drawn from Redskins camp since his arrival.

So if you want to take Smith or Wilson over him, that's fine. But I'm not so sure he's not right there with those dudes as a prospect, which to me, he still is. I may be absolutely wrong but I'm not very high on either Smith or Wilson right now. I know I don't like Glennon and I still have to look at Dysert and more on Fales.

DeepThreat
12-26-2012, 09:28 PM
I'm wondering if anyone has even watched Cousins at this point.

Against the Browns, Cousins had tons of time to throw and had wide open receivers. He wasn't challenged once by the Cleveland defense. He didn't show anything in that game that he didn't in college. He's not a franchise quarterback.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-26-2012, 09:53 PM
This isn't fair.

Because the year prior had so many dumb reaches at QB, the demand for QBs following the Browns pick of Weeden was extremely low. That's why Cousins (and Wilson for that matter) fell as much as anything else. No one thought they needed a QB at that point (Oakland, KC, Min, Jax, NYJ, Ten, etc. incorrectly).

Shanny even said he was shocked Cousins was still there. Well that was because literally every team in the NFL felt they were set at that position.

He was a pretty good prospect. He didn't have a sensational arm but he was accurate enough an absolute gamer - the heart and soul for some super competitive teams.

Now, being a gamer/intangibles/toughness is usually sketchy for a non-elite QB prospect because those traits can mean one thing at the college level but then not matter at all on the NFL level.

Which leads to his NFL experience showing that those things evidently did translate well in this particular case. That's a fair evaluation considering his performance in limited action this season and the rave reviews he's drawn from Redskins camp since his arrival.

So if you want to take Smith or Wilson over him, that's fine. But I'm not so sure he's not right there with those dudes as a prospect, which to me, he still is. I may be absolutely wrong but I'm not very high on either Smith or Wilson right now. I know I don't like Glennon and I still have to look at Dysert and more on Fales.

you and i will have to agree to disagree on a few things. i think there is MANY more reasons why Cousins was passed up other than every team thought they didn't need a QB. the QB is the most important player on the field. if ANY team thought he had a 1st round grade and he was available when they selected in the 2nd round and they passed on him, they should be fired immediately. its 1 thing to let a QB go by 1once because you have targeted a position or player. it's another to pass on him again for any reason at all. now, we are assuming that he had a 1st round grade. i don't think he did. he was drafted very close to where most teams had him slotted.

and forgive me for not buying coaches rave reviews or training camp heroism. Matt Cassel had 1 full year of film to break down before we traded for him and he has been a training camp stud for 4 years. that all means diddly pooh right now cause we all know Cassel sucks. now, i won't hold Cassel agaisnt Cousins. they are each their own man, but 1.5 games of success in the NFL doesn't make a career. and succeeding in preseason and training camp means even less.

at no point during last years draft did i think Cousins was a franchise QB. i maybe proved wrong, but nothing to this point has convinced me he is worth trading a high 2nd, or anything else for that matter, for him.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-26-2012, 10:21 PM
If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.

Glennon and Cousins are probably about the same value as prospects. Difference being that Cousins is average physically in just about every way whereas Glennon has DAT ARM which to NFL scouts, of course, overrides all his flaws.

KCStud
12-27-2012, 12:32 AM
You guys need to look at KC's schedule. Look at these games.

vs BAL L 9-6
vs DEN L 17-9
vs OAK L 0-15
vs IND L 20-13
vs PIT L 16-13

All close games without a QB. At all. I guarantee KC wins those games if Geno is the QB. So that would make them 7-9. Oh and did I mention that the Chiefs had 5 pro bowlers? And that's not counting Justin Houston and Brandon Flowers who are good players too.

The Chiefs get a quality QB and HC and they are in the WC conversation next year in the AFC.

SAGA45
12-27-2012, 12:54 AM
You guys need to look at KC's schedule. Look at these games.

vs BAL L 9-6
vs DEN L 17-9
vs OAK L 0-15
vs IND L 20-13
vs PIT L 16-13

All close games without a QB. At all. I guarantee KC wins those games if Geno is the QB.

Not with Brian Daboll calling the offense. This entire current regime is a hospice for rookie QB's.

Oh and did I mention that the Chiefs had 5 pro bowlers? And that's not counting Justin Houston and Brandon Flowers who are good players too.

Houston should easily replace Hali as a Pro Bowler. Berry shouldn't be on the list. If Pro Bowl voting was even worth a damn, it'd have been Colquitt, Charles, DJ and maybe Houston.

KaneMarko
12-27-2012, 08:37 AM
So why overreach for QBs who do not look they will be franchise players then? Just closing your eyes and hoping for the best is a great way to continue to have a losing team. If this QB class was like last years then okay you have Griffen and Luck who had franchise potential. What QB in this draft have you seen that will improve your team? Just because getting a QB in the past with free agency or trade does not mean it can not happen. I guess people never learn from the Ryan Leaf picks.

Because the basic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting different results. This organization has been doing the same thing over and over again with that position and the results have been minimal for the most part. What should the Chiefs do? Trade for Alex Smith like they did with Elvis Grbac, Steve Bono and Matt Cassel? How about signing more Steve DeBergs or Dave Kreigs?

We all know it's a QB league. And the Chiefs don't have one single QB on their roster worthy of being a starter.

And I find it funny how when people want to try to re-inforce a point about the QB position they always throw out names like Ryan Leaf as some kind of proof as to why it's bad to draft a QB at some point. Yet they neglect to mention guys like Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, etc. There are two sides to that coin. And the Chiefs haven't even tried the other side since 1983.

KaneMarko
12-27-2012, 08:42 AM
He had a whole game and a half to showcase it too! Go Cousins!

Yeah, I love how everyone is wanting the Chiefs to go after Cousins based on 1.5 games of play.

Firstly, if I'm the Redskins, I don't trade him for anything less than a 1st because they are going to need a backup QB with the way RG3 plays.

Secondly, as I keep saying, the Chiefs have been there and done that with going after backups trying to make them starters. And it hasn't worked. Why on earth should Chiefs fans want to do it yet again? I just do not get it.

KaneMarko
12-27-2012, 08:50 AM
Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.

Ding Ding Ding! Exactly.

And before people say 32 passed on Tom Brady...There is no evidence that Cousins is Tom Brady at this point.

I'd ask the people against the Chiefs considering a QB this: What's the alternative? Wait another 15 years for the next Andrew Luck to draft a QB? Trade for another backup from another team like the ALWAYS do with little to no success?

At least one QB in this draft is going to go on to have success. Maybe even great success. I don't know who that prospect is. I've watched a ton of games this year and there are a select few that I like that I think have a good shot success. But I'm not getting paid to get it right. The Chiefs owe it to themselves to do everything in their power to find that prospect. And if they select a QB and he turns out to be a bust, so be it. Then they should ramp up and prepare to select another one in a few years after it's established that this one was a bust. And keep on doing it until they find that guy.

vidae
12-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Pretty much. I'm so desperate for a QB that I don't care if he busts because at least we're trying. Not trying is so much worse. Most of you don't know that feeling, but the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round in three decades. I just want to try. Just once in my gd lifetime.

MaxV
12-27-2012, 10:42 AM
Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.

Would they be top 10 picks now?

I like Wilson and Smith, but not at 1st overall.

MaxV
12-27-2012, 10:50 AM
Yeah, I DEFINITELY disagree with forcing a QB pick at 1st overall.

y.f.s.
12-27-2012, 11:11 AM
Would they be top 10 picks now?

I like Wilson and Smith, but not at 1st overall.

No, but Dalton and Kaepernick probably would be.

Forcing a QB pick is fine, and it's usually the right move. You just have to take the right one.

KaneMarko
12-27-2012, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I DEFINITELY disagree with forcing a QB pick at 1st overall.

Ok, what's the alternative? Maybe draft Star #1 overall giving the Chiefs a 4th high 1st round pick on the defensive line then hope not many QBs go between then and their second pick?

Or maybe draft Luke Joeckel #1 overall instead of re-signing Branden Albert who has proven to be a very good LT?

I'm not trying to flame anyone. Chiefs' fans are probably more frustrated now than any time I've seen them in decades. People say the Chiefs shouldn't go QB in the first round. Fine. Then I want to hear some legit opinions as to if not a QB then who/what (while keeping in mind what the Chiefs already have/don't have on their roster balanced with their current needs).

Leon Sandcastle
12-27-2012, 11:24 AM
Ok, what's the alternative? Maybe draft Star #1 overall giving the Chiefs a 4th high 1st round pick on the defensive line then hope not many QBs go between then and their second pick?

Or maybe draft Luke Joeckel #1 overall instead of re-signing Branden Albert who has proven to be a very good LT?

I'm not trying to flame anyone. Chiefs' fans are probably more frustrated now than any time I've seen them in decades. People say the Chiefs shouldn't go QB in the first round. Fine. Then I want to hear some legit opinions as to if not a QB then who/what (while keeping in mind what the Chiefs already have/don't have on their roster balanced with their current needs).

Pretty spot on. Hands are kinda tied here. Unless they find a trade partner which looks slim pickings this year I think Chiefs kinda reluctantly go Geno/Glennon #1.

vidae
12-27-2012, 11:35 AM
I don't think they reluctantly do anything. This QB class isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be, and someone will be worth a high selection by the time April rolls around.

Some are just spoiled because of RG3 and Luck.

MaxV
12-27-2012, 11:40 AM
I don't think they reluctantly do anything. This QB class isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be, and someone will be worth a high selection by the time April rolls around.

Some are just spoiled because of RG3 and Luck.

Well, to me this QB class has solid depth, but not really great on top.

San Diego Chicken
12-27-2012, 11:50 AM
Like I said before, the only way they can justify not taking a QB in the first is if they go out and sign Flacco. And even then, if he becomes available, it would probably be because he wants a ridiculous contract, and that isn't the smartest move either, paying a non-elite QB elite money.

I will say though, that if KC does decide to go Geno Smith, it would behoove them to also bring in a veteran who can guide him. He doesn't seem to be as mature as Barkley or Wilson who both have top notch intangibles.

49ers1984
12-27-2012, 12:37 PM
Pretty much. I'm so desperate for a QB that I don't care if he busts because at least we're trying. Not trying is so much worse. Most of you don't know that feeling, but the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round in three decades. I just want to try. Just once in my gd lifetime.


So if whatever QB you pick this year is a bust your gonna justify picking another QB next year in the top ten? Are you not going to learn from your mistakes?

vidae
12-27-2012, 12:43 PM
So if whatever QB you pick this year is a bust your gonna justify picking another QB next year in the top ten? Are you not going to learn from your mistakes?

You mean like the mistake of not even trying to draft a QB in the first round for THREE DECADES?

And how can you label someone a bust after a year?

MaxV
12-27-2012, 12:51 PM
I guess it depends how they feel about these prospects.

If they think there isn't much that seperates guys like Smith and Wilson from guys like Glennon and Jones (my personal opinion), then they may as well wait until 2nd round.

descendency
12-27-2012, 01:13 PM
And how can you label someone a bust after a year?

Did you see Jimmy Clausen?

edit: I've honestly warmed up to the thought of Tyler Wilson at #1 (though, I think people are going to be shocked at Mike Glennon's post season rise as well)

Caulibflower
12-27-2012, 01:53 PM
Did you see Jimmy Clausen?

edit: I've honestly warmed up to the thought of Tyler Wilson at #1 (though, I think people are going to be shocked at Mike Glennon's post season rise as well)

This is pretty much right where I'm at, too. I'm liking Tyler Wilson better and better as a potential number one, and I also think Glennon's going to be a top-10 pick when it's all said and done, if not no. 1 himself.

TACKLE
12-27-2012, 06:34 PM
This is pretty much right where I'm at, too. I'm liking Tyler Wilson better and better as a potential number one, and I also think Glennon's going to be a top-10 pick when it's all said and done, if not no. 1 himself.

When it's all said and done, I expect that those two and Geno will all be top 10 picks.

Cigaro
12-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Yeah I expect three top ten quarterbacks from this class, regardless of actual talent. Wilson is also my favorite to go first overall, he's the quarterback I like the most, and he strikes me as the type of passer that has a better shot of moving up draft boards in the offseason than Geno would.

Halsey
12-27-2012, 08:57 PM
It's funny that some fans think there's a way around risk with the #1 pick. Not taking a QB is not a way to avoid risk. Other positions bust too. Go look at past drafts if you think QB is the only risky position.

Saints-Tigers
12-27-2012, 09:08 PM
There is no such thing as reaching for a franchise QB. If you feel he is a franchise guy, make sure you get him... the problem is that teams take whoever just to appease the fans' call for a new QB.

Mufasa
12-27-2012, 09:13 PM
There is no such thing as reaching for a franchise QB. If you feel he is a franchise guy, make sure you get him... the problem is that teams take whoever just to appease the fans call for a new QB.

This guy has it right. If you don't confidently think a guy is a franchise QB, you don't draft him in the first round. If you do think a guy is a franchise QB you draft him as soon as you possibly can.

farfromforgotten
12-27-2012, 09:49 PM
There is no such thing as reaching for a franchise QB. If you feel he is a franchise guy, make sure you get him... the problem is that teams take whoever just to appease the fans' call for a new QB.

Except for the Chiefs, apparently.