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Don Vito
10-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Is anyone familiar this guy? Incredibly raw and new to football, but is a freak. Listed at 6-6 265 and is an amazing athlete. Van Noy gets a lot of credit on the BYU DL and rightfully so, but Ansah screams JPP. I know it is premature, but the correlations are pretty scary. Ansah moved from Ghana a few years ago. He lined up everywhere along the front 7 from linebacker to nose tackle against Hawaii. Keep an eye on him, could be this years prospect who comes out of nowhere.

TACKLE
10-01-2012, 11:00 AM
I just watched a video of this guy and I think you may be onto something here Vito. They have him playing inside mostly but you can see he's clearly pure 4-3 DE type. Still, I expected him to be a little lost, a little uncoordinated but he actually looked really good. Very active, strong, and uses his hands surprisingly well. The athleticism pops as well. Definitely will be keeping close tabs on him.

z-JxQlaxBHU

YAYareaRB
10-01-2012, 11:22 AM
Walked right into Coach Mendenhalls office and told him he wanted to play. Atheticism is there, when he develops pass rushing moves, EZ will be insane!

TACKLE
10-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Walked right into Coach Mendenhalls office and told him he wanted to play. Atheticism is there, when he develops pass rushing moves, EZ will be insane!

For being as 'raw' as he is, he sure uses his hands well in disengaging. It'd be nice to see him get a few more reps rushing off the edge though just from an evaluation standpoint.

YAYareaRB
10-01-2012, 11:41 AM
He does have a good D Line coach in Steve Kaufusi but youre right, if they had more depth in the trenches, we would probably see more of him at OLB.

no bare feet
10-01-2012, 12:50 PM
He is raw in terms of playing the game of footbal but some parts of his game are well beyond his years. He could be a 1st rounder if he blows up in the pre-draft process.

Ozzy
10-01-2012, 09:18 PM
Brought him up week 3 after seeing him week one for the first time.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53691&page=2



And I agree, kid is so raw and has so little football experience the upside is crazy. A that size, he is going to get a strong look and could even get into the 2nd or 3rd round if he keeps playing this well. Former track athlete, obviously is in great shape and that is rare for a guy his size, if he has a constant motor his upside will make him a very high pick in the draft I think.

All he has to do is keep up this same level of play on an already solid defensive unit for BYU, one of the best in the country really all around.

Scott Wright
10-02-2012, 03:11 AM
Someone recently sent in a tip about this guy and I jotted his name down but haven't got a chance to check him out yet. Certainly intrigued by those measurables though.

AntoinCD
10-02-2012, 11:16 AM
The first thing that stood out to me was damn this guy can play the run. Against Boise he just stood the o-lineman up and disengaged with ease. I agree with TACKLE I'd like to see him run the arc more, however he has ridiculous functional strength and as his technique improves he could be a monster. He may fit best as a 5 tech, but he looks like he can play all over the place. Would make a real nice strongside end opposite Chandler Jones

Don Vito
10-02-2012, 11:21 AM
http://www.deseretnews.com/m/article/765608473

According to this Ansah has been timed at 10.9 in the 100 and 21.9 in the 200. I am taking those times with a grain of salt because that is foolishly fast for someone who is 6-6 270, but this is clearly a freak here.

FUNBUNCHER
10-02-2012, 12:49 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/m/article/765608473

According to this Ansah has been timed at 10.9 in the 100 and 21.9 in the 200. I am taking those times with a grain of salt because that is foolishly fast for someone who is 6-6 270, but this is clearly a freak here.

Clearly he didn't run those times at 270#. But it does suggest that he possesses ideal athleticism for the position.
For instance, RGIII's world class times in the 110 meter hurdles were run when he was 180-190#. Griffin is @ 220# now.

YAYareaRB
10-03-2012, 06:40 PM
He came to byu from Ghana to run track. He wasn't 270 but he wasn't far from it

Don Vito
10-05-2012, 11:36 PM
Don't know who is watching this game, but yeah...this kid is the absolute real deal.

TACKLE
10-05-2012, 11:51 PM
Don't know who is watching this game, but yeah...this kid is the absolute real deal.

Tuned in just to watch him. You're right, he's legit.

y.f.s.
10-06-2012, 12:07 AM
Soooo legit.

descendency
10-06-2012, 01:37 AM
He's an incredible athlete, but his football form (technique and everything) is god awful.

It's really amazing he doesn't get pushed out of every play. He's literally playing on talent out there.

It's scary to think of what he could become.

Hines
10-06-2012, 02:17 AM
Could he play 5T in your guy's opinion?

Matthew Jones
10-06-2012, 04:16 AM
Could he play 5T in your guy's opinion?

It would take years for him to gain enough bulk for that. You can't just add 20-30 pounds in a year. Look at how BYU was using him as a rusher out of a two-point stance. He's tall and has long arms, but he looks like more of an elephant linebacker or 4-3 defensive end than a five-technique.

bored of education
10-06-2012, 09:17 AM
He will be a first rounder.

EricCartmann
10-06-2012, 10:49 AM
Easily early first round. That guy is a beast! I think he has the quickness to play corner! Dam dude is quick.

TACKLE
10-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Could he play 5T in your guy's opinion?

Based off his size and ability, he looks like your prototypical LDE to me who also has the ability to kick inside on passing downs.

Matthew Jones
10-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Based off his size and ability, he looks like your prototypical LDE to me who also has the ability to kick inside on passing downs.

When is the last time a 270 pound player was drafted high to play five-technique for a 3-4 team though? I just looked through 15 years of draft history and couldn't find any examples. Even Cameron Jordan weighed 287 pounds and played five-technique in college and he was passed on by 3-4 teams before the Saints drafted him. I can see a 3-4 team considering him as a designated pass rusher that they move around, but not as a defensive lineman in a three-man base. He'll get drafted by a 4-3 team as a defensive end well before 3-4 teams would consider him for the same spot.

TACKLE
10-06-2012, 01:25 PM
When is the last time a 270 pound player was drafted high to play five-technique for a 3-4 team though? I just looked through 15 years of draft history and couldn't find any examples. Even Cameron Jordan weighed 287 pounds and played five-technique in college and he was passed on by 3-4 teams before the Saints drafted him. I can see a 3-4 team considering him as a designated pass rusher that they move around, but not as a defensive lineman in a three-man base. He'll get drafted by a 4-3 team as a defensive end well before 3-4 teams would consider him for the same spot.

Whoops. By LDE, I meant in a 43. I must have accidentally edited it out when I was tweaking the wording. We're on the same page here.

y.f.s.
10-06-2012, 02:35 PM
Got somebody working on a cutup the game from last night. Will be up in a few days probably.

PossibleCabbage
10-06-2012, 04:18 PM
Ansah does seem like the rare prospect who looks to actually be better in an even front than an odd one (not just more valuable, better.)

You don't want to ask a guy as green as he is to play OLB, since it's a much more mentally demanding position and he's as green as seasick grass, and as Matthew Jones pointed out, he's not a good immediate fit at 5-tech.

I fully expect the Giants to draft him.

y.f.s.
10-06-2012, 04:20 PM
We're starting to see with guys like Henry Melton and Aldon Smith that playing on the interior a lot can actually be really helpful in college, as it forces you to use your hands instead of just trying to run by people off the edge. Good for his development that he's starting inside and will work his way out as he gets better IMO.

Docta
10-06-2012, 07:30 PM
We're starting to see with guys like Henry Melton and Aldon Smith that playing on the interior a lot can actually be really helpful in college, as it forces you to use your hands instead of just trying to run by people off the edge. Good for his development that he's starting inside and will work his way out as he gets better IMO.
Chris Long and Alex Okafor are other examples. Spending time inside really does help out.

Dblevins13
10-07-2012, 09:48 PM
It would take years for him to gain enough bulk for that. You can't just add 20-30 pounds in a year. Look at how BYU was using him as a rusher out of a two-point stance. He's tall and has long arms, but he looks like more of an elephant linebacker or 4-3 defensive end than a five-technique.

Im new here and wanted to add my opinion. He could realistically add 20 pounds in 4-5 months with proper diet and work out regimen. I've seen him play 2 games now and watch highlights of the others. Ansah could very well play 5 tech by next NFL season if he wanted to. He could be one of the most versatile players any way it goes. Being a Packer fun and loving the 3-4 defense I would LOVE to see Ziggy add the weight through the season and into the off season to have the versatility to play DE/DT and maybe a standing elephant hybrid player all in defense. He is one of my favorite players in the draft. Just my thoughts on the situation. It all depends on what he wants to do and who wants him to do what

FUNBUNCHER
10-07-2012, 10:20 PM
It would be silly for him to 'fake' bulk up 20# before the combine so he 'looks' more versatile to NFL teams.

Isn't he already 270#??
If an NFL player is going to put on good weight that's mostly muscle, he needs at least a couple seasons.

His weight isn't a problem right now and if he's destined to be a 34 DE, let him grow the right way into the position.

Guys who put on 20# in 4-5 months aren't doing it clean, or it's mostly water weight and too much fat, not muscle.

The added weight is supposed to enhance his play not just let him say he's only gained pounds and not power/strength/speed.

Dblevins13
10-07-2012, 11:22 PM
I wasn't saying he needed to do it to look versatile. You can legit ad 4-5 pounds of clean lean muscle a month with right diet and regimen. It was more of a it could be done rather than a should be done. I would like to have him on my team as is now and grow. I will say I am glad I found somewhere to discuss scouting players and what not.

FUNBUNCHER
10-07-2012, 11:39 PM
No one that I know can consistently gain 4-5# of muscle for four months straight, especially if they're already involved in a rigorous weight lifting program.

Ansah has already bulked to get to 270#. An additional 20# of muscle in five months is very unlikely to happen clean.

Think about what you just wrote, 20# of muscle in five months for a guy who's already a regular lifter??

Honestly that's damn near impossible.

descendency
10-07-2012, 11:52 PM
I wasn't saying he needed to do it to look versatile. You can legit ad 4-5 pounds of clean lean muscle a month with right diet and regimen. It was more of a it could be done rather than a should be done. I would like to have him on my team as is now and grow. I will say I am glad I found somewhere to discuss scouting players and what not.

An off-season is 15 pounds, max. That 4-5 pounds works for 1 month. Maybe two. Not 6 in a row.

Also, they have to train their body to handle the rigors of an entire season. A lot of guys start at 270 and finish at 250, because of the stress on their body.

Dblevins13
10-08-2012, 08:57 AM
Honestly its really my bad for really trying to apply a non-football weight gain to football.I think the kid is a monster as is tho.

AntoinCD
10-08-2012, 09:31 AM
No one that I know can consistently gain 4-5# of muscle for four months straight, especially if they're already involved in a rigorous weight lifting program.

Ansah has already bulked to get to 270#. An additional 20# of muscle in five months is very unlikely to happen clean.

Think about what you just wrote, 20# of muscle in five months for a guy who's already a regular lifter??

Honestly that's damn near impossible.

While I agree with the fact he would struggle to add that much good weight in that time, players usually decrease their liftin during the season. A lot of players may limit that to one or two days lifting. What with meetings, practice, recovery etc sometimes it isn't possible to stick to a heavy lifting regime.

Mr. Goosemahn
10-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Even if he does bulk up to play 5 tech, it's got to be for a scheme that will allow him some versatility when rushing the passer, like Wade Phillips'. More traditional 3-4s don't use DEs like he does, or Dlinemen for that matter. That's why his guys, while great players on their own, sometimes get "inflated" stats for the position.

Mr. Goosemahn
10-08-2012, 10:02 AM
While I agree with the fact he would struggle to add that much good weight in that time, players usually decrease their liftin during the season. A lot of players may limit that to one or two days lifting. What with meetings, practice, recovery etc sometimes it isn't possible to stick to a heavy lifting regime.

Remember hearing somewhere that they lifted more in college.

Don Vito
10-08-2012, 10:05 AM
I don't know why you would want a guy with his skillset to play 5 tech anyway. Could he? Maybe, but that would be like asking Steven Jackson To bulk up and play full Back out of college because he has the body type that looks like he could do it.

Mr. Goosemahn
10-08-2012, 10:06 AM
I don't know why you would want a guy with his skillset to play 5 tech anyway? Could he? Maybe, but that would be like asking Steven Jackson. To bulk up and play full Back out of college because he has the body type that looks like he could do it.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. There are better candidates for 5tech than him.

y.f.s.
10-08-2012, 11:43 AM
8O4NawUsjtc

And (again) this:


We're starting to see with guys like Henry Melton and Aldon Smith that playing on the interior a lot can actually be really helpful in DL development, as it forces you to use your hands instead of just trying to run by people off the edge. Good for his development that he's starting inside and will work his way out as he gets better IMO.

BlueFunk96
10-11-2012, 01:15 PM
A little info about Ziggy.

I'm a BYU fan, and I was just googling around to see some of the buzz about Ziggy. He's created some excitement around Cougar Nation over the last few weeks, as his play on the field is starting to catch up with his potential.

Ziggy joined the LDS church a few years ago in Ghana. He was talking to one of the missionaries about his dream of playing in the NBA (he grew up playing basketball and soccer - had never seen a football until he came to the U.S.). He was told if he wants to play in the NBA, he needed to go to BYU and play college ball.

So he did that. He tried out for the BYU basketball team a couple of times, unsuccessfully. Word is, he has some hops and can touch the rim with his elbow. During the course of trying out for basketball, his vertical was measured at 39". He doesn't appear to have added appreciable bulk since joining the football team in 2010 - his first year playing football, he was listed at 6-6, 270 lbs. I've heard some comments that he might be up to 280 now.

When he didn't make the basketball team the second time, he went out for track. It was the indoor season. It was at this time that he was purportedly timed at 21.9 in the 200 meters (I think late 2009 or early 2010). However, according to the track coach, he was so big that he was having a hard time with colliding with the guys in the lanes next to him on the indoor track. I believe his 200 meter time was recorded at 270 lbs. Not a high school time before he bulked up. Now that I think about it, he didn't run track in high school, so it has to be a BYU time.

Because of his size, the track coach felt his best potential was in football, so he walked Ziggy over to the football offices and introduced him. This was in spring 2010.

The head coach, Bronco Mendenhall, was initially skeptical. Yeah, he had great size and athleticism, but he had never watched, much less played football, and had no idea how to put his pads on. Bronco thought Ziggy wouldn't make it through fall camp, as his conditioning wasn't up to par. But he didn't give up, and started contributing on special teams during that season. According to Bronco, he was extremely fast, usually the first one down the field on kick coverage, and nobody could block him. Several times, he would just run over the blocker. Fans started noticing him on special teams that year, too.

The next year, he learned to play outside linebacker and DL. This year, with a couple of years of experience under his belt, he's just exploded.

For me, I think the first real eye-popping play from Ziggy this year was against Boise State on a fake punt. They snapped it to an up back on the punt. When I watched the play live, all I saw was a Boise lineman go flying onto his back off to the right, and all of a sudden, Ziggy was blowing up the ball carrier. That was Ziggy's man who went flying backward a couple yards. The great thing about this play was it was around Boise's 10 yard line - I don't think anyone really expected a fake at that point, and Ziggy showed great recognition and discipline to see the fake and blow it up behind the line of scrimmage.

Here's Ziggy's highlights from that Boise State game - the fake punt is at about 1:13.

(I have a You Tube video I tried to link, but I don't have a high enough post count. Its v number is 7u9DLxjuYGs.)

He had two sacks in the last game against Utah State and is starting to overshadow our star linebacker, Kyle Van Noy (tied for 5th in the nation with 6 1/2 sacks).

This is a kid with incredible upside, who's just now starting to dominate in college. I've heard he may actually be up to 280 now. And he's one of the fastest guys on the team.

So, his 21.9 200 time and 39" vertical were measured at about 270 lbs. I think there's a good chance he could put up a sub-4.5 40 time. And with a little pre-combine training (BYU players have been going to a local guy, Dave Stroshine, who's had a lot of success with draftable players), he might even hit 40" on the vertical. If he has a strong bench press showing, his measureables are going to be off the charts at the combine for a guy 6-6, 270 lbs.

Most of all, he's starting to dominate as a D-lineman, which is another big key. He's a humble kid, very soft-spoken, and he's shown great tenacity, work ethic, and willingness to learn. He could be a steal for someone, even as an early-round pick.

FUNBUNCHER
10-11-2012, 01:30 PM
Can't wait to see him at the combine and have his measurables confirmed.
It's hard for me to fathom a man close to 270# can run a sub 22 second 200m.


Does anyone know who was the heaviest player to run a 4.4 range Indy time??
Vernon Davis comes to mind and his 4.38 time at a weight of 253/4#.
Still looks like a great pro prospect, but the athletic feats seem..not plausible to me.

BlueFunk96
10-11-2012, 02:51 PM
doesn't he have to do the missionary thing next?

No. He is not going to go on a mission. He wants to play in the NFL.

BlueFunk96
10-11-2012, 02:57 PM
8O4NawUsjtc

And (again) this:

Keep in mind while watching this that Ziggy was fighting nausea the entire game - he had to sit out a number of plays. So despite the fact he still made a bunch of plays, he wasn't feeling well.

Duffman57
10-11-2012, 03:05 PM
I'm just curious, but he looks athletic enought to where if he showed up at the combine around 270, does anyone think that he could play as a 3-4 OLB In the mold of Aldon Smith. When he's asked to just pure rush, his explosion off the edge is great, he's got those long arms and works very hard to hand fight (though that needs work). Just watching some video of him, he looks like when he's in a position where he gets out in space, he's real comfortable changing directions and shadowing a RB or QB. Or is he just a strict 4-3 DE with upside?

SuperPacker
10-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Not sure if BlueFunk is actually Ezekiel Ansah.

y.f.s.
10-11-2012, 03:39 PM
Ziggy joined the LDS church a few years ago in Ghana. He was talking to one of the missionaries about his dream of playing in the NBA (he grew up playing basketball and soccer - had never seen a football until he came to the U.S.). He was told if he wants to play in the NBA, he needed to go to BYU and play college ball.



Oh. (10 char)

BlueFunk96
10-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Not sure if BlueFunk is actually Ezekiel Ansah.

No, we're just not used to having guys with this kind of athleticism at BYU. There's been a bunch of stories out recently about him, as he's really broken out the last couple of weeks.

YAYareaRB
10-12-2012, 08:05 PM
No, we're just not used to having guys with this kind of athleticism at BYU. There's been a bunch of stories out recently about him, as he's really broken out the last couple of weeks.

Welcome.. I THINK I'm the only other BYU fan here

Scott Wright
10-17-2012, 03:41 PM
Finally got to see this guy, just kept forgetting to post my thoughts.

Ansah definitely looks the part physically but I was underwhelmed overall.

My biggest issues were that Ansah plays a finesse brand of football and doesn't seem to like contact while his awareness and instincts are lacking and he struggles mightily to get off of blocks. Ansah must also develop additional pass rush moves and counters because he overuses the spin. Granted all of that can conceivably be fixed with time and more experience, but the big question is how early do you select a prospect who is such a major project? Also, with the way Ansah is utilized in BYU's defensive scheme he never really gets the chance to pin his ears back and rush off the edge.

At this point I'd be hard-pressed to stamp anything more than a mid-round grade on "Ziggy" and that could be based mostly on upside. However, if he works out as well as expected and proves that he can be a force off the edge and / or play on his feet as an outside linebacker in an odd front at an all-star game then his stock could certainly continue to rise.

I will be checking Ansah out again this weekend so we'll see if I come away with the same impression. I’ll post another update at that time.

villagewarrior
10-21-2012, 02:23 AM
Welcome.. I THINK I'm the only other BYU fan here

You're not. Hard to get BYU football in Missouri without the BYU channel, so I was happy to watch the Notre Dame game. He's just an impressive football player for his level of experience. I think you could probably bulk him up to play 5 tech, but man you just hate to pigeonhole a guy with his talent without seeing exactly what he can and can't do.

The thing I like most about his game is how active he is with his hands, which is extremely impressive for such a young player. Yes, he needs to refine his technique in all levels, but the fact he has taken to it so well already bodes well for the future.

y.f.s.
10-21-2012, 10:42 AM
You're not. Hard to get BYU football in Missouri without the BYU channel, so I was happy to watch the Notre Dame game. He's just an impressive football player for his level of experience. I think you could probably bulk him up to play 5 tech, but man you just hate to pigeonhole a guy with his talent without seeing exactly what he can and can't do.

The thing I like most about his game is how active he is with his hands, which is extremely impressive for such a young player. Yes, he needs to refine his technique in all levels, but the fact he has taken to it so well already bodes well for the future.

Thisthisthisthisthisthis. It's why playing as an interior lineman will end up being a good thing for his development long-term.

Scott Wright
10-22-2012, 05:05 PM
Caught Ansah again this past weekend and was more impressed as there were a couple more edge rush opportunities. With that said, the BYU scheme just doesn't turn Ansah loose so it's a tough evaluation for that type of player. Once again though, the guy definitely looks the part!

Really looking forward to seeing Ansah at an all-star game in a more conventional defense.

ChiFan24
10-22-2012, 05:14 PM
I totally agree that playing him at DT is going to be huge for him in the long run, but against ND he had a tough time standing out and got handled pretty easily on run plays. Just not big enough yet.

Rosebud
10-22-2012, 06:34 PM
Would make a great giant if the team doesn't believe Ojomo or Tracy will be able to take the third DE role behind JPP and Kiwi.

AcheTen (Thumper)
10-22-2012, 11:56 PM
How high will this guy likely go? Is he a top-15 lock?

Razor
10-23-2012, 05:26 AM
How high will this guy likely go? Is he a top-15 lock?

Not at all. JPP was considered raw, but Ziggy is way much more of a project than JPP. I think the second round is a fair bet...

BlueFunk96
10-28-2012, 01:45 PM
Didn't get to watch the game, but I hear Ziggy had a great showing against Georgia Tech. He's improving technically every week. I did see some highlights, including a sack by Ziggy on a bull rush, just abusing the RT.

Heard this weekend he's rumored to bench press in excess of 400.

So . . . 6'6", 270-280, 39" vertical, bench presses 400#, very bright (statistics major), I expect he'll run a 4.45-4.50 40. Multiple NFL GM's at BYU looking at him, I'm hearing he could be a surprise 1st round pick.

villagewarrior
10-28-2012, 02:25 PM
Didn't get to watch the game, but I hear Ziggy had a great showing against Georgia Tech. He's improving technically every week. I did see some highlights, including a sack by Ziggy on a bull rush, just abusing the RT.

Heard this weekend he's rumored to bench press in excess of 400.

So . . . 6'6", 270-280, 39" vertical, bench presses 400#, very bright (statistics major), I expect he'll run a 4.45-4.50 40. Multiple NFL GM's at BYU looking at him, I'm hearing he could be a surprise 1st round pick.

If he runs a 4.6 that would be very surprising. I doubt he gets higher than that. If so, he's an anomaly.

Duffman57
10-29-2012, 02:27 AM
If he runs a 4.6 that would be very surprising. I doubt he gets higher than that. If so, he's an anomaly.

He ran a sub 22 second time in the 200m in track, and he only added about 10-15 lbs to play football, dudes got FREAKISH speed.

Caddy
10-29-2012, 03:42 AM
200m time doesn't really tell us how fast he'd run a 40 in. Proves that he is an athlete, but for all we know he might have a sluggish first 50-75 metres.

YAYareaRB
10-29-2012, 11:18 PM
i wouldnt put too much emphasis on his 40 time. I wanna see his field strength and vision improve

Duffman57
10-30-2012, 01:20 AM
i wouldnt put too much emphasis on his 40 time. I wanna see his field strength and vision improve

His field strength is awesome. The problem is that he's so tall that playing inside and trying to keep leverage is hard. If he's playing DE or even OLB like he should be (honestly i think 3-4 OLB might be his best position, he's that athletic), he'll have no problems.

DraftSwag
10-31-2012, 04:21 PM
Not only is Ansah 6'6 270, but he also is a high character kid. Actually was a 200m runner before playing football and is rumored to have been running in the 22/23's so apparently he could fly. Has JPP written all over him. Can't wait for the season to end and start seeing what guys get graded out as.

YAYareaRB
11-01-2012, 09:15 PM
His field strength is awesome. The problem is that he's so tall that playing inside and trying to keep leverage is hard. If he's playing DE or even OLB like he should be (honestly i think 3-4 OLB might be his best position, he's that athletic), he'll have no problems.

yeah maybe im basing too much off of his playing inside. he really got washed out in some plays vs Notre Dame

HellonEarth84
11-02-2012, 03:41 AM
Looks like a DE who can move inside on 3rd downs.

y.f.s.
11-02-2012, 10:34 AM
Looks like a DE who can move inside on 3rd downs.

I still think his best comp is Idonije.

AntoinCD
11-02-2012, 11:18 AM
The thing that worries me about Ansah is he rarely lines up outside the offensive tackle. If he is going to play a similar role in the NFL he will need to add some bulk. He does use his hands well in the run game though.

It's all going to be a pretty big projection with him. Do you bulk him up to play the 5 and focus on his hand usage at the point of contact, or do you put him outside and use his athleticism more? I really don't see him being an OLB in the NFL though.

Either way you can't be certain from what you're seeing during the games. I think he could be an impact player at either however not elite. I think he could end up being a Ray Edwards type player

y.f.s.
11-02-2012, 11:28 AM
The thing that worries me about Ansah is he rarely lines up outside the offensive tackle. If he is going to play a similar role in the NFL he will need to add some bulk. He does use his hands well in the run game though.

It's all going to be a pretty big projection with him. Do you bulk him up to play the 5 and focus on his hand usage at the point of contact, or do you put him outside and use his athleticism more? I really don't see him being an OLB in the NFL though.

Either way you can't be certain from what you're seeing during the games. I think he could be an impact player at either however not elite. I think he could end up being a Ray Edwards type player

If he plays a similar role in the NFL, it's going to still be in a 1-gap front as the Closed DE in an Under front. Can't see many teams projecting him as a two-gapping 5 tech.

AntoinCD
11-02-2012, 11:36 AM
He's not going to play a similar role in the NFL, he's a 4-3 DE all the way IMO.

I definitely think that's his best role. Let him play left end. Hell, if you want to be creative have him move inside on some passing downs and it's not a stretch to say he couldn't play the 5 at his current weight if a team wants to incorporate some 34 into their scheme, however I agree above all else he should play in an even front for the majority of the time.

I actually think he would be a great fit for what the Pats are doing right now. Ninkovich has had a nice year with some big plays however it would be foolish to believe he is a long term answer at the spot and Cunningham is pretty much a situational guy right now. Ansah could play that spot quite easily. But the main reason I like him in New England is the fact that Belichick likes to employ both 34 and 43 principles up front at the same time. Quite often Chandler Jones will line up in a traditional down end stance outside the LT. Vince Wilfork will play the 3. However what differs the rest of the way is Kyle Love will line up directly on the nose and someone like Brandon Deaderick will play the 5. It's not a full time thing or even an every game thing but it is something that Belichick has done this year. The issue is Nink or Cunningham can't play 5 technique and Deaderick can't really play anything outside the 5. If it's one thing Belichick loves on defense is an ability to disguise and this guy would be great for that

y.f.s.
11-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Ninja edited on ya, but I'm in total agreement.

Iamcanadian
11-03-2012, 01:57 PM
I think some teams that passed on Pierre Paul just might jump on this guy at the end of round 1. This is a tremendous draft class for DE's which might hinder his climb up draft boards. The comparisons to Pierre-Paul are close.

brasho
11-04-2012, 07:31 AM
Im new here and wanted to add my opinion. He could realistically add 20 pounds in 4-5 months with proper diet and work out regimen. I've seen him play 2 games now and watch highlights of the others. Ansah could very well play 5 tech by next NFL season if he wanted to. He could be one of the most versatile players any way it goes. Being a Packer fun and loving the 3-4 defense I would LOVE to see Ziggy add the weight through the season and into the off season to have the versatility to play DE/DT and maybe a standing elephant hybrid player all in defense. He is one of my favorite players in the draft. Just my thoughts on the situation. It all depends on what he wants to do and who wants him to do what

Add weight? Yes. Add 20 lbs of muscle? Only if BALCO is back and fully operational. Even WITH steroids you can't add 20 lbs of muscle in 6 months. It can't be done. Lean mass takes years to build and develop and to do it naturally, years and years. Even for a guy with EZ's frame, the most he could gain naturally in 12 months would probably be about 12 lbs.

brasho
11-04-2012, 07:33 AM
200m time doesn't really tell us how fast he'd run a 40 in. Proves that he is an athlete, but for all we know he might have a sluggish first 50-75 metres.

JPPs 40 time wasn't earth shattering... his 40 yard backflip time, however, is legendary.

AntoinCD
11-14-2012, 04:25 PM
I think Ansah is plenty fast and plays like it on the field. Here is some images of the Utah St where he made a heads up play to diagnose a screen, done a full turn, chase down the RB and made the tackle

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/Ansah-sniffingoutscreen.png

Here he beats his block but notices the linemen go upfield. He notices the RB go across him and turns

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/AnsahturnandrunwithRBinscreen.png

Notice how he sees the RB go into the flat behind him and does a full turn on himself

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/Ansahmakingangletotkl.png

This to me is the best part of this individual play. Despite being a step behind the RB, he is able to take a good enough angle to stop the RB getting upfield, but also preventing the back cutting it back and making him missing

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/AntoinCD/Ansahmakingtkl.png

Finally he makes the tackle.

What this play says to me is, first and foremost, the guy is a hell of an athlete. He chased the back down from behind all while initially rushing upfield and then doing a turn on himself. Heady plays like this are a great thing to see from such a "raw" prospect. Definitely a first rounder in my eyes

y.f.s.
11-14-2012, 04:30 PM
He's not raw, he just hasn't played football for very long. Big difference IMO.

AntoinCD
11-14-2012, 04:36 PM
He's not raw, he just hasn't played football for very long. Big difference IMO.

Yeah I agree, however it is a tag he will be labelled with throughout this process. In fact in this thread he has been compared to both JPP and Aldon Smith who were also labelled as raw coming out. One thing that really impresses me with him is his hand usage. He really extends his arms into his blocker and is able to steer him during run plays and that is a trait that is not evident with prospect who are actually "raw"

mdmgrand
11-14-2012, 07:35 PM
I found his official times this pdf

http://www.byutrack.com/various/Special/Meet_Info/2009-10/Robison/Full%20Meet%20Program.pdf

He ran a 10.91 100m, and a 21.89 200m... Outrageous for a guy his height and weight... Though there isn't a true way to convert times one way or another, he'll probably be right around a 4.6... Taller guys (other than Bolt) normally gain the rest during the second phase of the race due to their stride length...

Don't be upset if he doesn't get in the low 4.4's, he's still plenty fast, and freakish, at 4.6.

villagewarrior
11-14-2012, 09:52 PM
4.6 is still ridiculously fast for a man who will likely measure in at about 6'5 260 pounds. I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a guy who Ansah might compare too but I just can't find anyone. JPP has been mentioned but I actually think JPP may be more athletic. Merriman comes to mind for some reason, but I think Merriman may have been more of a strict DE in college - but it's been a long time since I've seen his college film so I could be misremembering.

Lil Quip
11-15-2012, 12:01 AM
For those wondering about blistering forty times, you just have to go back to 2011.

Dontay Moch, the guy out of Nevada that played with Kaepernik (sp?) He had a 4.44 forty, beating out Bryan Thomas who had a 4.47.

And one I can personally attest to is Dwight Freeney. Pulled off a 4.48 at 266.

BlueFunk96
11-15-2012, 12:45 PM
4.6 is still ridiculously fast for a man who will likely measure in at about 6'5 260 pounds. I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a guy who Ansah might compare too but I just can't find anyone. JPP has been mentioned but I actually think JPP may be more athletic. Merriman comes to mind for some reason, but I think Merriman may have been more of a strict DE in college - but it's been a long time since I've seen his college film so I could be misremembering.

275-280 lbs. My sense is that BYU heights and weights tend to be pretty accurate (although a lineman last year came in a couple inches shorter than listed). I think he'll come in at 6'5"+ and 275 or 280 at the combine. He also has a 39" vertical jump (he reportedly can touch a 10' basketball rim with his elbow).

I tend to believe the size measurements - during the Boise game, he threw aside a linebacker listed at 239 aside like a rag doll when he blew up a fake punt. The guy ended up on the ground at least 5 yards to the side.

I can't link to videos or images yet, but if you go to YouTube and search for "Ezekiel Ziggy Ansah Short Spot" there's a promo he did before this season that gives you an idea of his physique. Also, google "BYU blackout uniforms" and the promo images they used were Ziggy (wearing # 55). You don't see guys that big and that trim very often.

BlueFunk96
11-15-2012, 01:51 PM
I found his official times this pdf

He ran a 10.91 100m, and a 21.89 200m... Outrageous for a guy his height and weight... Though there isn't a true way to convert times one way or another, he'll probably be right around a 4.6... Taller guys (other than Bolt) normally gain the rest during the second phase of the race due to their stride length...

Don't be upset if he doesn't get in the low 4.4's, he's still plenty fast, and freakish, at 4.6.

Just as a point of reference, the best 100 meter time I found for Vernon Davis (4.38 40 at the combine) was 10.7. It's tough to find comparisons for Ziggy because guys his size don't tend to be track sprinters.

nofalcons10
11-29-2012, 06:37 AM
It would take years for him to gain enough bulk for that. You can't just add 20-30 pounds in a year. Look at how BYU was using him as a rusher out of a two-point stance. He's tall and has long arms, but he looks like more of an elephant linebacker or 4-3 defensive end than a five-technique.

I watched nearly all of his vids last night and came here to post essentially the same thing.


He really looks like a top 10 pick when used as a stand up DE from the elephant position. He may never be a traditional 4-3 end from the 3-point stance but he definitely looks disruptive standing up. I never watched any of his games before now but after a close analysis of his tape this becomes very apparent.


The Kid is going to be an outstanding elephant in the pros.

nofalcons10
11-29-2012, 06:44 AM
Watch him here standing up against washington state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAI&feature=player_embedded



He've very disruptive in that role. If he wasn't moved around so much from one play to the next he'd probably double his production.

FUNBUNCHER
11-29-2012, 07:00 AM
Something tells me he'll end up being drafted by the NYG/Steelers/Pats/Packers/49ers/Texans and we'll be talking about how did the rest of the league miss on him?

bigbuc
11-29-2012, 12:04 PM
If you watch the ND game he makes 1-2 nice plays. Came around on a stunt for a TFL. But he stays blocked a lot, now sometimes it's cause he's the NT. He played with his hand in the ground in this game a lot.

To me he looks much better on his feet. I the Wash St game. ( I know it's a bad team ) but just looks like he could get more done at the OLB spot.

phlysac
11-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, to me, he is an elephant 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB. His time being spent at DT should only help him in the long run.

brasho
12-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Speaking of big guys running very fast...Jevon Kearse ran 4.43 at his Pro Day at 265 lbs.

A decent comparison because as fast as Kearse was, he never really had that elite ankle flexion to run the arc, something I have yet to see EZ do. I've learned all I can learn about him from watching BYU tape. I want to see him in one-on-ones and at RDE in a 4-3 to see if he can accelerate and turn the corner.

bigbuc
12-04-2012, 10:57 PM
Didn't Kearse break his foot that's why his missed games and never returned to the " Freak " that we all saw his rookie year

descendency
12-04-2012, 11:21 PM
If you watch the ND game he makes 1-2 nice plays. Came around on a stunt for a TFL. But he stays blocked a lot, now sometimes it's cause he's the NT. He played with his hand in the ground in this game a lot.

To me he looks much better on his feet. I the Wash St game. ( I know it's a bad team ) but just looks like he could get more done at the OLB spot.

He looked practically unblockable at LDE against ND (to me). Their RT was on his ass quite a bit. When he was slid inside to a DT position, he seemed to lose track of the OL and would not even try to not be blocked (his arms never made contact a lot of times).

This guy is going to be a monster LDE for someone. He needs to improve his consistency. One play he plays with perfect leverage, smacks up the OL, and then blows up the play. Others, he's washed out into the trash because he is seemingly lost.

He'll be a top 15-20 pick.

brat316
12-04-2012, 11:43 PM
Have to watch him against GT. Nobody blows him off the ball, and he holds the point and sheds. He has so much raw power for play only 3 years.

He doesn't have that finesse or speed you want to see at times, he does waste his time doing spin moves and jukes.

But with coaching his footwork, and hand placement, dude would be a monster.

phlysac
12-05-2012, 01:49 AM
He's my dream pick to learn behind Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks for a season or two.

TACKLE
12-05-2012, 01:56 AM
He's my dream pick to learn behind Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks for a season or two.

You're not allowed to have two Aldon Smith's. It's in the rule book somewhere, I think.

Duffman57
12-05-2012, 02:25 AM
You're not allowed to have two Aldon Smith's. It's in the rule book somewhere, I think.

Therefore he automatically gets placed with the Chargers. Thats how that works right?

TACKLE
12-05-2012, 12:37 PM
The more I watch this guy, the more I come away thinking this guy is really ******* good. Just such a complete package and is far more advanced his technique and awareness than a guy with his experience should be. Not trying to be too hyperbolic but I can't help but think that he is cut from the JPP/Aldon cloth and he's likely faster than both. His ceiling is as high or higher than any player, regardless of position in this draft and because of that, I really think there's a good chance that Ziggy establishes himself as one of the elite defensive talents in this draft. If I'm a 4-3 team picking in the top 10 and need a DE, he's on the short list.

AntoinCD
12-05-2012, 12:46 PM
The more I watch this guy, the more I come away thinking this guy is really ******* good. Just such a complete package and is far more advanced his technique and awareness than a guy with his experience should be. Not trying to be too hyperbolic but I can't help but think that he is cut from the JPP/Aldon cloth and he's likely faster than both. His ceiling is as high or higher than any player, regardless of position in this draft and because of that, I really think there's a good chance that Ziggy establishes himself as one of the elite defensive talents in this draft. If I'm a 4-3 team picking in the top 10 and need a DE, he's on the short list.

I agree with pretty much everything here, although I would put Dion Jordan in the same boat upside-wise. I really think he will be a massive riser throughout the draft process. If I'm looking for a 43 base end the only guy I will have higher rated than him is Werner right now

y.f.s.
12-05-2012, 12:55 PM
The more I watch this guy, the more I come away thinking this guy is really ******* good. Just such a complete package and is far more advanced his technique and awareness than a guy with his experience should be. Not trying to be too hyperbolic but I can't help but think that he is cut from the JPP/Aldon cloth and he's likely faster than both. His ceiling is as high or higher than any player, regardless of position in this draft and because of that, I really think there's a good chance that Ziggy establishes himself as one of the elite defensive talents in this draft. If I'm a 4-3 team picking in the top 10 and need a DE, he's on the short list.

I agree with pretty much everything here, although I would put Dion Jordan in the same boat upside-wise. I really think he will be a massive riser throughout the draft process. If I'm looking for a 43 base end the only guy I will have higher rated than him is Werner right now

Pretty much this.

Cannot say it enough times - he's not raw, he just hasn't played for very long. These are inherently different things.

brat316
12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
I think he is way better as a stand up pass rusher. He gets more of a jump and explosion as a stand up vs 3 point stance.

When standing up, OT, barely get there hands on the guy, unless he is crashing in.

mdmgrand
12-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Yeah I really want the Browns to take a long look at Ansah and Dion Jordan do to their versatility and athleticism.

I bet Ansah flies up draft boards with a good workout and ends up being a Top 10, possibly Top 5 pick. We might see a showing at the combine that can rival Mario Williams, who, to me, had the best combine ever considering his massive size.

1. Moore
2. Ansah
3. Jordan
4. Werner
5. Mingo
6. Okafor
7. Montgomery
8. Simon
9. Carradine
10. Lemonier

norcalgsr
12-05-2012, 03:25 PM
I think he is way better as a stand up pass rusher. He gets more of a jump and explosion as a stand up vs 3 point stance.

When standing up, OT, barely get there hands on the guy, unless he is crashing in.

Totally agree with this. He's so strong and explosive he doesn't need the deep knee and hip bend that comes with the 3/4-point stance. Just stand up and use the hands and feet.

bigbuc
12-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Not saying he won't be a 1st rounder. But this top 10 talk has to slow down.

y.f.s.
12-05-2012, 03:50 PM
Not saying he won't be a 1st rounder. But this top 10 talk has to slow down.

Why? (10 char)

descendency
12-05-2012, 05:03 PM
Why? (10 char)

JPP went 15th in a much weaker draft (from a DE perspective). This class is stronger and deeper than that one. There are a lot of other players that could go top 10.

I still think he's a top 25 lock, though.

y.f.s.
12-05-2012, 05:27 PM
JPP went 15th in a much weaker draft (from a DE perspective). This class is stronger and deeper than that one. There are a lot of other players that could go top 10.

I still think he's a top 25 lock, though.

So it's impossible for him to go higher than JPP went? Why? Isn't it likely teams will have learned from the mistake of letting JPP fall to the 15th pick?

Duffman57
12-05-2012, 05:29 PM
Yeah I really want the Browns to take a long look at Ansah and Dion Jordan do to their versatility and athleticism.

I bet Ansah flies up draft boards with a good workout and ends up being a Top 10, possibly Top 5 pick. We might see a showing at the combine that can rival Mario Williams, who, to me, had the best combine ever considering his massive size.

1. Moore
2. Ansah
3. Jordan
4. Werner
5. Mingo
6. Okafor
7. Montgomery
8. Simon
9. Carradine
10. Lemonier

I can name more than a few players recently (Since Mario) who have had better combines then Mario Williams.

JJ Watt being one of them.

brat316
12-05-2012, 06:08 PM
I can name more than a few players recently (Since Mario) who have had better combines then Mario Williams.

JJ Watt being one of them.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23220757.jpg

Really list some names, H/W/40/BJ/V
H....W......40....10...Bench...BJ...Vert
6'7 295 4.70, 1.60, 35 reps, 10, 40 1/2

mdmgrand
12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
There is only one other recent combine in the Mario Williams class of athleticism and that's Vernon Davis.....

descendency
12-05-2012, 08:35 PM
So it's impossible for him to go higher than JPP went? Why? Isn't it likely teams will have learned from the mistake of letting JPP fall to the 15th pick?

All I am saying is that there is a much wider and stronger selection of pass rushers this year. Whereas a team in 2010 might have drafted a guy and forced him into their system, this year you have guys that provide a much broader range of options. If you need a pass rusher, you don't have to compromise as much.

descendency
12-05-2012, 08:37 PM
JJ Watt being one of them.

Mario Williams was 295 and ran a 4.7

JJ Watt was 290 and ran a 4.85.

norcalgsr
12-06-2012, 12:18 AM
Who cares about 40 times. It's the 10-yard split that really matters.

Besides in Watt's case, it's not the 40 time that impresses, it's the 3-cone: 6.88, and short shuttle: 4.21. Those are ridiculous times for a 295-pounder. By comparison, AJ Green (211 lbs) had a 6.91 3-cone and identical 4.21 short shuttle.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=76434&draftyear=2011&genpos=DE

Duffman57
12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
There is only one other recent combine in the Mario Williams class of athleticism and that's Vernon Davis.....

Vernon is another...

Taylor Mays is another (again, just listing combine blowups)
How bout some Dontari Poe
Hell what about Patrick Peterson

All those guys are close.

brasho
12-22-2012, 09:36 AM
I can name more than a few players recently (Since Mario) who have had better combines then Mario Williams.

JJ Watt being one of them.

Michael Johnson had a great combine as well.

brasho
12-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Posted this on the Bucs team board and thought it would apply here:

Just rewatched the BYU-San Diego St. game... I have to say, I was thoroughly unimpressed with Ziggy Ansah.

A big reason for not being impressed likely had to do with how Ansah was utilized by BYU on D.

First to go over the positives:
His closing speed is excellent. Once he decides to open up his hips and give chase, his speed is apparent on film and could be a major asset.

He has a fantastic motor. No matter where the ball was, he always gave chase. On one particular play, a screen, Ansah missed the tackle (a soccer style-looking slide tackle), got up, then made the tackle 25 yards downfield.

His strength is a plus. He was double teamed often, and even more often he lined up at 5-technique and then stunted inside taking on the guard and was able to stand toe-to-toe with a much bigger Olineman and usually not give ground. He does not have great strength as a 2-gap DL, but he is definitely not weak.

The negatives:
Due to BYU's scheme, he was constantly head up on the opposing OLinemen so it is impossible to see him display the skills needed to be successful as a 4-3 DE.

He stands nearly straight up at the snap. His head pops up, then his body follows. He is quick to engage an OL, and although he does a pretty good job with his hands, in pass rush he doesn't use his speed at all.

His first step explosion is completely negated by a sloppy loose stance and taking short choppy steps. Again, this is probably part of the scheme at BYU. No DL ever looked to hit a hard edge, bend and turn the corner. On obvious passing downs, Ansah was often moved to NT where it was even harder to see if he had the first step explosion, stride, and lean to get to the QB.

Even when he was "trying" to rush the passer, he was often the furthest BYU DL from the QB. The announcers even said on the ball that he intercepted that he was playing like a spy on the play. He wasn't spying, he just got ZERO penetration on the play. He got no penetration on many other plays as well, getting stoned at the LOS. Again, this could have a lot to do with BYU's scheme and also perhaps he wasn't supposed to get much penetration to keep the QB in the pocket.


Anyway, after watching there were little questions I had about him that were answered. At this point, it would be a stretch to project Ansah into round 1. The good news is that he accepted his invite to the Senior Bowl and his ability to get off the ball and turn the corner in the one on one drills will be on display for all the world to see. But at this stage, despite Ansah's obvious physical advantages, his situation reminds me quite a bit of Miami's DE Allen Bailey and UNC's DT Marvin Austin. As for Bailey, I never saw him run the arc and despite his freakish athletic ability, he was slow off the ball, lacked pass rush technique, and didn't live up to his press clippings. In comparison to Marvin Austin, it was widely known that Austin was an athletic marvel, but he often failed to get penetration (though Austin was routinely pushed 10 yards downfield in college) or distinguish himself... Okay, comparing him to Austin might be a bit much because I absolutely hated Austin as a prospect and I'm still intrigued with Ansah. But for right now, the comparison to Bailey, perhaps due to scheme, is warranted. His athleticism may still be JPP 2.0, but from what I've seen so far, he has a lot to prove.

I say he is no better than a mid 2nd at this point... he has a ton of chance to improve at both the Senior Bowl and combine.

phlysac
12-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Posted this on the Bucs team board and thought it would apply here:

Just rewatched the BYU-San Diego St. game... I have to say, I was thoroughly unimpressed with Ziggy Ansah.

A big reason for not being impressed likely had to do with how Ansah was utilized by BYU on D.

First to go over the positives:
His closing speed is excellent. Once he decides to open up his hips and give chase, his speed is apparent on film and could be a major asset.

He has a fantastic motor. No matter where the ball was, he always gave chase. On one particular play, a screen, Ansah missed the tackle (a soccer style-looking slide tackle), got up, then made the tackle 25 yards downfield.

His strength is a plus. He was double teamed often, and even more often he lined up at 5-technique and then stunted inside taking on the guard and was able to stand toe-to-toe with a much bigger Olineman and usually not give ground. He does not have great strength as a 2-gap DL, but he is definitely not weak.

The negatives:
Due to BYU's scheme, he was constantly head up on the opposing OLinemen so it is impossible to see him display the skills needed to be successful as a 4-3 DE.

He stands nearly straight up at the snap. His head pops up, then his body follows. He is quick to engage an OL, and although he does a pretty good job with his hands, in pass rush he doesn't use his speed at all.

His first step explosion is completely negated by a sloppy loose stance and taking short choppy steps. Again, this is probably part of the scheme at BYU. No DL ever looked to hit a hard edge, bend and turn the corner. On obvious passing downs, Ansah was often moved to NT where it was even harder to see if he had the first step explosion, stride, and lean to get to the QB.

Even when he was "trying" to rush the passer, he was often the furthest BYU DL from the QB. The announcers even said on the ball that he intercepted that he was playing like a spy on the play. He wasn't spying, he just got ZERO penetration on the play. He got no penetration on many other plays as well, getting stoned at the LOS. Again, this could have a lot to do with BYU's scheme and also perhaps he wasn't supposed to get much penetration to keep the QB in the pocket.


Anyway, after watching there were little questions I had about him that were answered. At this point, it would be a stretch to project Ansah into round 1. The good news is that he accepted his invite to the Senior Bowl and his ability to get off the ball and turn the corner in the one on one drills will be on display for all the world to see. But at this stage, despite Ansah's obvious physical advantages, his situation reminds me quite a bit of Miami's DE Allen Bailey and UNC's DT Marvin Austin. As for Bailey, I never saw him run the arc and despite his freakish athletic ability, he was slow off the ball, lacked pass rush technique, and didn't live up to his press clippings. In comparison to Marvin Austin, it was widely known that Austin was an athletic marvel, but he often failed to get penetration (though Austin was routinely pushed 10 yards downfield in college) or distinguish himself... Okay, comparing him to Austin might be a bit much because I absolutely hated Austin as a prospect and I'm still intrigued with Ansah. But for right now, the comparison to Bailey, perhaps due to scheme, is warranted. His athleticism may still be JPP 2.0, but from what I've seen so far, he has a lot to prove.

I say he is no better than a mid 2nd at this point... he has a ton of chance to improve at both the Senior Bowl and combine.

He also spent a majority of the time at DT/NT.

I try to consider how his ability clogging lanes and fighting with strong, interior linemen will supplement his natural athleticism and length as a 3-4 OLB.

Shane P. Hallam
12-22-2012, 10:14 PM
BYU just doesn't seem to be using him correctly. I think he is a first round talent who is far from hitting his potential or knowing how to. Senior Bowl shall be interesting.

jared3
12-22-2012, 11:24 PM
How about LB Kyle Van Noy. He had a great game. You think he will declare for the NFL draft?

norcalgsr
12-22-2012, 11:25 PM
BYU just doesn't seem to be using him correctly. I think he is a first round talent who is far from hitting his potential or knowing how to. Senior Bowl shall be interesting.

They're trying to win games by putting him at DT/NT because everyone else is just less talented.

Imagine him on the edge with 5 men on the line consistently. Or imagine Ansah playing next to himself, which is basically what Van Noy gets to do.

TACKLE
12-23-2012, 12:32 AM
He also spent a majority of the time at DT/NT.

I try to consider how his ability clogging lanes and fighting with strong, interior linemen will supplement his natural athleticism and length as a 3-4 OLB.

Exaaactly.

Although it makes it more challenging as an evaluator to not see him in an edge rushing role often, this draft game is all about projecting players' games and skillsets. In theory, his experience inside will have made him a much more physical player with better hand use who has learned to feel and react to pressure better than he ever would have playing outside. So now you have a guy with elite length, elite athleticism and a great motor who has has proven he can play physically and use his hands and length to separate/disengage from blockers. Although it makes for a tougher evaluation and he hasn't exactly proven himself in that specific role, he projects very well to that role because those acquired skills combined with his physical prowess.

brasho
12-23-2012, 07:20 AM
How about LB Kyle Van Noy. He had a great game. You think he will declare for the NFL draft?

He had a fantastic game, didn't he?! Always around the ball, goes hard, fairly athletic. The announcers kept talking about how Van Noy had everything including size. To me, that is his biggest question mark. Perhaps it is his #3 jersey, or because he is tiny... he just doesn't look 6'3 235 (and even if he was, that is still small by NFL 3-4 OLB standards)... he looks like a safety.

It wouldn't be uncommon for a BYU prospect to come out early, because with a lot of BYU players that went on missions, coming out one year early, is still coming out one year late.

brasho
12-23-2012, 07:26 AM
Exaaactly.

Although it makes it more challenging as an evaluator to not see him in an edge rushing role often, this draft game is all about projecting players' games and skillsets. In theory, his experience inside will have made him a much more physical player with better hand use who has learned to feel and react to pressure better than he ever would have playing outside. So now you have a guy with elite length, elite athleticism and a great motor who has has proven he can play physically and use his hands and length to separate/disengage from blockers. Although it makes for a tougher evaluation and he hasn't exactly proven himself in that specific role, he projects very well to that role because those acquired skills combined with his physical prowess.

Yes, but fighting with and kicking these less talented interior linemen's rears are two different things. He doesn't stand out usually when he lines up inside, he hand fights, he looks to engage, he has a decent spin move, but for the most part it looks to me to be a waste of his talents.

In Aldon Smith's last season in Missouri, he was often lined up inside at 3-tech and not only did he produce, but he was a constant disruption. To me, showing that a player CAN do a desired task is far different than a player showing he is good at it.

I mean, would it be that hard for the BYU coaches to put the guy on the outside once or twice a game and ask him to hit a hard edge, lean, and turn the corner? Just for me! But instead they line him up at NT and watch him chop his feet and hand fight with the OC.... the Senior Bowl week will be big for him.... he has to show that he is more than just a hand-fighter and run and chase athlete.

phlysac
12-23-2012, 11:42 PM
In Aldon Smith's last season in Missouri, he was often lined up inside at 3-tech and not only did he produce, but he was a constant disruption. To me, showing that a player CAN do a desired task is far different than a player showing he is good at it.

And Aldon dominated immediately in the NFL. I look at what Ansah has shown and I see someone with similar upside, but we need more time to develop.

PossibleCabbage
12-24-2012, 09:27 PM
Why? (10 char)

Yeah, doesn't somebody who's a consensus low 1 or high 2 usually end up going in the top 15 or so picks every year?

I mean, Bruce Irvin, Christian Ponder, Tyson Alualu, Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

TACKLE
12-24-2012, 11:17 PM
Yeah, doesn't somebody who's a consensus low 1 or high 2 usually end up going in the top 15 or so picks every year?

I mean, Bruce Irvin, Christian Ponder, Tyson Alualu, Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

Also, I think an argument could pretty easily be made that he has the highest upside of any player in this draft.

gpngc
02-26-2013, 11:31 PM
Is he in play for Philly at 4? Did he do enough at the combine to show he can stand up?

holt_bruce81
02-26-2013, 11:34 PM
I like my Robert Quinn comparison

Black Bolt
02-27-2013, 08:45 AM
Is he in play for Philly at 4? Did he do enough at the combine to show he can stand up?

Yes, he did. He was amazing in drills. Great agility and balance that defies his physical dimensions.

AcheTen (Thumper)
02-27-2013, 08:47 AM
If Philly selects him at #4 it will be the worst draft mistake they've made in the past 10 years.

Yes, worse than selecting Danny Watkins in the first round in 2011 and worse than picking Jerome McDougle in the first round in 2003.

gpngc
02-27-2013, 12:43 PM
Yes, he did. He was amazing in drills. Great agility and balance that defies his physical dimensions.

If Philly selects him at #4 it will be the worst draft mistake they've made in the past 10 years.

Yes, worse than selecting Danny Watkins in the first round in 2011 and worse than picking Jerome McDougle in the first round in 2003.

Wow. This is all I get?

Black Bolt, thank you.

AcheTen, why?

Black Bolt
03-04-2013, 07:57 AM
Never ran a 40 before. Again, he has the type of talent that can't be taught and will only get better with coaching.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/256791/report-ansah-didnt-even-train-for-combine

FUNBUNCHER
03-04-2013, 09:54 AM
Never ran a 40 before. Again, he has the type of talent that can't be taught and will only get better with coaching.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/256791/report-ansah-didnt-even-train-for-combine

The link said Ansah's agent is the one who reported that Ziggy had never run a 40yd dash before the combine.:facepalm:

If this is true, I hope someone close to Ziggy tells him to FIRE HIS AGENT.

How are you going to represent a college prospect before the biggest predraft testing of his life and NOT hire someone to get him ready for the combine???

Either his agent is lying or he's an idiot.

I easily could see someone in the top 10 falling in love with Ziggy.
He profiles soooo close to JPP in terms of raw physical tools.

Black Bolt
03-04-2013, 11:46 AM
The link said Ansah's agent is the one who reported that Ziggy had never run a 40yd dash before the combine.:facepalm:

If this is true, I hope someone close to Ziggy tells him to FIRE HIS AGENT.

How are you going to represent a college prospect before the biggest predraft testing of his life and NOT hire someone to get him ready for the combine???

Either his agent is lying or he's an idiot.

I easily could see someone in the top 10 falling in love with Ziggy.
He profiles soooo close to JPP in terms of raw physical tools.

I'd (By "I'd" I mean the Raiders) take him in a heartbeat. As far as not running a 40, it is very strange; however, he does have a track background. He may have not run that specific distance in the past. By yeah, if true, his agent should have been fired yesterday.

Shane P. Hallam
03-04-2013, 11:52 AM
The link said Ansah's agent is the one who reported that Ziggy had never run a 40yd dash before the combine.:facepalm:

If this is true, I hope someone close to Ziggy tells him to FIRE HIS AGENT.

How are you going to represent a college prospect before the biggest predraft testing of his life and NOT hire someone to get him ready for the combine???

Or if you read the report, it indicates Ziggy was taking classes instead of preparing with "outside help," but still preparing. Maybe not for the 40 itself, but doesn't say anything about other tests. And there are training staffs that don't focus on the 40 for their clients as it is.

badgerbacker
03-04-2013, 11:59 AM
My guess is Ansah focused on other areas since he knew he'd already do well in the 40 with his track background. The agent is just putting this story out there to attempt to convince people that he would have clocked an even better time if he had trained specifically for it.

I remember when Joe Thomas was training before his draft he stated that he was not training specifically for combine events, just to become stronger and a better overall football player. Obviously a little different situation for him as he was a consensus top 5 player, but I respect the idea that it's more important to be a good football player than it is to have a good combine.

raphael
03-04-2013, 01:45 PM
How old is Ansah though. He looks to be in his mid 20s at least. I wouldn't touch him in the first three rounds.

Black Bolt
03-04-2013, 02:17 PM
How old is Ansah though. He looks to be in his mid 20s at least. I wouldn't touch him in the first three rounds.

Ed Reed looked like he was in his mid 30's in high school.

Duffman57
03-04-2013, 02:24 PM
Hes 23 or 24 IIRC. But watch his 40, it looks like he's accelerating through the 40 yard mark, or at least thats what i saw...anyone else see it or is it just me?

raphael
03-04-2013, 03:43 PM
Hes 23 or 24 IIRC. But watch his 40, it looks like he's accelerating through the 40 yard mark, or at least thats what i saw...anyone else see it or is it just me?

He has to be older than that. He was 19 when some missionary "discovered" him playing soccer in Africa. Means he had to be at least 20 before he got into a U.S. college on scholarship. He has been in school here for five years.
That is assuming that he didn't lie about his age to have a better chance of being accepted on scholarship. We'll probably never know for sure, but I think he is as old as Margus Hunt at least.

ph90702
03-04-2013, 03:59 PM
He has to be older than that. He was 19 when some missionary "discovered" him playing soccer in Africa. Means he had to be at least 20 before he got into a U.S. college on scholarship. He has been in school here for five years.
That is assuming that he didn't lie about his age to have a better chance of being accepted on scholarship. We'll probably never know for sure, but I think he is as old as Margus Hunt at least.

The guy could still be good for a solid 8 seasons.

raphael
03-04-2013, 04:07 PM
The guy could still be good for a solid 8 seasons.

Except he hasn't been good yet. I think last season was his first as a starter in college. Pedestrian stats, no awards. Was very up and down at the Senior Bowl. He isn't likely to get much better, either. Damontre Moore is five years younger than him and has a ton of college production, along with All America status.

This whole thing about Ansah is loopy. So far it's just a media driven, I don't know if he has much credibility on the team level.

Don Vito
03-04-2013, 04:10 PM
I think he is 23 and turning 24 in May.

Babylon
03-04-2013, 04:18 PM
I think he is 23 and turning 24 in May.


I'm always a little leery of the age thing with BYU players.

raphael
03-04-2013, 05:09 PM
If Ansah gets drafted highly with a big signing bonus, that's probably the last you hear about him. Look at his history. Became a Mormon for a scholarship. Dabbled at three or four different sports and lost interest after awhile. Took up football on the promise of being able to make money and hated it for the most part. I don't think a team uses a first round pick on him. I wouldn't take him at all.

ChiFan24
03-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Yikes, I didn't realize he was that old. I've had him as a top 3 player in this draft, but that hurts him a little bit in my eyes.

raphael
03-04-2013, 06:12 PM
Yikes, I didn't realize he was that old. I've had him as a top 3 player in this draft, but that hurts him a little bit in my eyes.

Yeah when I guy has his first year as a starter in college in his mid 20s, he isn't going far from there. Danny Watkins comes to mind. Brandon Weeden. Chris Weinke. At least they had previous backgrounds in the sport. Ansah has to be 25 at least.

Don Vito
03-04-2013, 06:32 PM
The age is definitely not ideal but you can't deny the talent. Drafting a guy who will be a 24 year old rookie is not ideal, but Dion Jordan will be a 23 year old rookie and has similar question marks. You can't deny his raw talent and upside. If ******* 27 year old Danny Watkins can be a first rounder as a guard then someone will take Ansah no later than top 20.

raphael
03-04-2013, 06:45 PM
The age is definitely not ideal but you can't deny the talent. Drafting a guy who will be a 24 year old rookie is not ideal, but Dion Jordan will be a 23 year old rookie and has similar question marks. You can't deny his raw talent and upside. If ******* 27 year old Danny Watkins can be a first rounder as a guard then someone will take Ansah no later than top 20.

I think the difference here is that Ansah is being hyped largely on the basis of upside and untapped potential, though. He has done practically nothing at the college level. If he was 19 or 20 and just off the boat from Ghana, then you might be inclined to roll the dice on the basis of big upside. Watkins, I think was a three or four year starter in college after playing the game for a number of years before he entered college. He was drafted with the expectation that he could step right in to an NFL lineup. Weeden as well. Ansah is described as "extremely raw".

BlueFunk96
03-28-2013, 05:10 PM
How old is Ansah though. He looks to be in his mid 20s at least. I wouldn't touch him in the first three rounds.

He is 23, will turn 24 sometime this year.

By the way, BYU's pro day was today. I don't have enough posts to post a link, but it's on the Deseret News website sports section right now, if you're interested. There's an article and interview with Ziggy.

Ziggy's graduation ceremony is the same day as the 1st round of the NFL draft. He initially declined the invitation to be at the draft, wanting to walk at his graduation, instead. He only changed his mind after a bunch of people talked him into it, and after confirming with the school that he could walk at a later ceremony - probably in August.

Remember, he came to BYU on an academic scholarship, and he's graduating with a degree in statistics and a minor in math.

Regarding the 40 at the combine. What I've been able to glean is that Ziggy chose to focus on schoolwork rather than combine preparation, so he could graduate this spring. I do recall being surprised during the weeks leading up to the draft that he was in Provo training, instead of at one of the draft preparation facilities. Also, he was not going to run the 40 at the combine, which is why he didn't really prepare for it. He made the decision himself at the last minute to run it. I'm sure his agent was not happy with the decision (until after he ran the 4.63), but the pre-combine preparation was Ziggy's choice, not his agent's.

Don't take this to mean Ziggy's not serious about football. The coaches ran him to death when he first started with the team. Nobody (probably even Ziggy) expected him to last.

He's really smart. And he knows where his bread is buttered. Skipping combine preparation to play video games might be a red flag; skipping combine preparation to focus on classes isn't an indication that he's going into the NFL half-assed.

The thing that I kept hearing commentators mention about him over the season was his motor. Yeah, there were times he got a little tired (and at least in the Utah State game, he was sick - I think even throwing up before and during the game), but he was relentless on the field. And to go from never having seen a football game to dominating major college football teams in 3 years strongly indicates a good work ethic.

The thing about Ziggy is he has no red flags. He's got all the athletic ability in the world, he shows a good motor and work ethic, he's really smart, he's coachable, he's never had a whiff of being in trouble, he has no history of injury, and he's explosive and physical. Kind of the perfect storm for a football player. The only knock on him is his lack of experience and technique, and that's going to be overcome pretty quickly.

I've got two favorite plays Ziggy made. The first was against Boise State on a fake punt where he threw the 240-lb. defender 5 yards to the side like a rag doll (look at the video - not an exaggeration), recognized the fake punt, and destroyed the guy with the ball behind the line of scrimmage.

The second was against Utah State where he fought through a double team, chased the QB around for a couple seconds, and when he caught up with him, picked him up and body slammed him for the sack.

Okay, I guess the third was also against Utah State, I believe, where he started his rush, sensed a screen, spun around on a dime and located the running back, and then chased him down for a loss.

I think those three plays really show what a team's going to get with Ziggy.

I'm guessing he'll be a Lion. He took to the defense their coaching staff brought to the Senior Bowl really well.

BlueFunk96
03-28-2013, 05:23 PM
If Ansah gets drafted highly with a big signing bonus, that's probably the last you hear about him. Look at his history. Became a Mormon for a scholarship. Dabbled at three or four different sports and lost interest after awhile. Took up football on the promise of being able to make money and hated it for the most part. I don't think a team uses a first round pick on him. I wouldn't take him at all.

That's a completely false and biased characterization. I don't know where you got that information from.

He joined the Church in Ghana. After that, in fact I think even after the missionary who baptized him had returned home, knowing that Ziggy dreamed of being in the NBA, he suggested that he go to BYU and try out for the basketball team. Ziggy managed to secure an academic scholarship (how many NFL draftees can claim that?) You don't get a scholarship for becoming a Mormon.

He tried out for basketball his first year, but didn't make the team. He tried out again his second year, but didn't make the team. Since he wasn't having success at basketball, he went out for track and joined the team for the indoor season. He did pretty well, but because he was so big, he was having trouble on the indoor track staying in his lane and kept bumping runners in the adjacent lanes.

The track coach, a former BYU track star who is also from Ziggy's home town of Accra, Ghana (Leonard Myles-Mills) decided that with his size and bulk, football might be a better fit for Ziggy, actually walked him down to the football offices to introduce him to the coaches. If I remember the story correctly, it was shortly before this that Ziggy went to his first football game and was intrigued. So he gave it a try.

He didn't make it through the first few workouts, but he kept with it and learned the game. He spent two years primarily on special teams and became a special teams legend. One of his teammates said in his first game, he ran down on kickoff coverage, destroyed three players on the other team on his way down, but didn't get to the ball carrier. He was surprised when his teammates were freaked out about what he had just done (running through three opposing players) because he hadn't made the tackle. He was generally the first guy down on kick coverage and was a key component of an unusually good kick coverage team.

A guy who's only concern is getting that big paycheck isn't going to complete a difficult degree (statistics with a math minor), skip combine preparation to focus on classes, and have to be convinced by multiple people to skip his graduation to go to the NFL draft.

You've got something against Ziggy, and it's clouding your reason.

pierce2walker
03-28-2013, 06:43 PM
BlueFunk droppin knowledge.

Black Bolt
03-28-2013, 07:54 PM
That's a completely false and biased characterization. I don't know where you got that information from.

He joined the Church in Ghana. After that, in fact I think even after the missionary who baptized him had returned home, knowing that Ziggy dreamed of being in the NBA, he suggested that he go to BYU and try out for the basketball team. Ziggy managed to secure an academic scholarship (how many NFL draftees can claim that?) You don't get a scholarship for becoming a Mormon.

He tried out for basketball his first year, but didn't make the team. He tried out again his second year, but didn't make the team. Since he wasn't having success at basketball, he went out for track and joined the team for the indoor season. He did pretty well, but because he was so big, he was having trouble on the indoor track staying in his lane and kept bumping runners in the adjacent lanes.

The track coach, a former BYU track star who is also from Ziggy's home town of Accra, Ghana (Leonard Myles-Mills) decided that with his size and bulk, football might be a better fit for Ziggy, actually walked him down to the football offices to introduce him to the coaches. If I remember the story correctly, it was shortly before this that Ziggy went to his first football game and was intrigued. So he gave it a try.

He didn't make it through the first few workouts, but he kept with it and learned the game. He spent two years primarily on special teams and became a special teams legend. One of his teammates said in his first game, he ran down on kickoff coverage, destroyed three players on the other team on his way down, but didn't get to the ball carrier. He was surprised when his teammates were freaked out about what he had just done (running through three opposing players) because he hadn't made the tackle. He was generally the first guy down on kick coverage and was a key component of an unusually good kick coverage team.

A guy who's only concern is getting that big paycheck isn't going to complete a difficult degree (statistics with a math minor), skip combine preparation to focus on classes, and have to be convinced by multiple people to skip his graduation to go to the NFL draft.

You've got something against Ziggy, and it's clouding your reason.

He must of earned a scholarship considering that free schooling you just game him.

Black Bolt
03-28-2013, 07:58 PM
I think the difference here is that Ansah is being hyped largely on the basis of upside and untapped potential, though. He has done practically nothing at the college level. If he was 19 or 20 and just off the boat from Ghana, then you might be inclined to roll the dice on the basis of big upside. Watkins, I think was a three or four year starter in college after playing the game for a number of years before he entered college. He was drafted with the expectation that he could step right in to an NFL lineup. Weeden as well. Ansah is described as "extremely raw".

Ansah is far more talented than Weeden and Watkins. Why you are comparing him to them in the first place, I don't know. Ansah is 23, not 26 or 28

Nastradamus
03-28-2013, 09:06 PM
Ansah is 23, not 26 or 28

Maybe. Some say he is in fact 28.

Black Bolt
03-28-2013, 09:14 PM
Maybe. Some say he is in fact 28.

Okay, I said Jarvis Jones is 29. Instant rumor.

FUNBUNCHER
03-28-2013, 09:20 PM
Maybe. Some say he is in fact 28.


Oh my.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcrre4NcEp1qd8ggv.gif

AcheTen (Thumper)
03-28-2013, 11:55 PM
This guy is going to go down in history as one of the all-time legendary busts on par with Vernon Gholston and Jamarcus Russell.

I pity the team that blows its first round pick on this guy.

SilentJaguar
03-29-2013, 01:09 AM
This guy is going to go down in history as one of the all-time legendary busts on par with Vernon Gholston and Jamarcus Russell.

I pity the team that blows its first round pick on this guy.
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss39/ShadowReplication/8ffe36f6-1.gif

BallerT1215
03-29-2013, 01:24 AM
I don't see the love for Ansah as well.

Even his "highlight" tapes are rather ordinary.

FUNBUNCHER
03-29-2013, 06:30 AM
Ansah was lined up inside for BYU, not on the edge as a rush end the way he should have been. He's a different player when he's lined up out wide and just allowed to get after the QB.

Black Bolt
03-29-2013, 08:10 AM
This guy is going to go down in history as one of the all-time legendary busts on par with Vernon Gholston and Jamarcus Russell.

I pity the team that blows its first round pick on this guy.

You want to be right so bad.

Nastradamus
03-29-2013, 12:08 PM
Okay, I said Jarvis Jones is 29. Instant rumor.

Fausto Carmona says hi.

y.f.s.
03-29-2013, 12:22 PM
BlueFunk droppin knowledge.

Pretty sure BlueFunk is Ziggy.

BlueFunk96
03-29-2013, 12:23 PM
Pretty sure BlueFunk is Ziggy.

I wish. He's going to be a multimillionaire in a month or two. I may be a multi hundredaire.

SuperPacker
03-29-2013, 12:25 PM
BlueFunk is fine, it's the Mike Catapano family reunion that's annoying. Nothing he's said about Ansah is false, he's just informing us. Catapano is dick riding himself and not being subtle about it at all.

batsandgats
03-29-2013, 07:39 PM
BlueFunk is fine, it's the Mike Catapano family reunion that's annoying. Nothing he's said about Ansah is false, he's just informing us. Catapano is dick riding himself and not being subtle about it at all.

you sure its not just some fan(s) of the team? How much would Catapano have to gain by propping himself up on this site?

pierce2walker
03-29-2013, 11:00 PM
you sure its not just some fan(s) of the team? How much would Catapano have to gain by propping himself up on this site?

I kind of doubt this board has a bunch of Princeton football fans. Its either Catapano or his close friends.

descendency
03-30-2013, 12:41 AM
I kind of doubt this board has a bunch of Princeton football fans. Its either Catapano or his close friends.

It could just be a random troll. People like that do exist. Granted, they tend to pick more popular players.

BallerT1215
03-30-2013, 12:57 AM
It could just be a random troll. People like that do exist. Granted, they tend to pick more popular players.

Random trolling is the new fad.

pierce2walker
03-30-2013, 02:13 AM
If its a random troll I have to give them some serious credit for their persistence on one of the randomest of prospects.

Bobo
03-30-2013, 02:28 AM
I don't see the love for Ansah as well.

Even his "highlight" tapes are rather ordinary.

I know right?! Soooo over-rated!!! Teams 1-9 better understand that!!!

pierce2walker
03-30-2013, 02:33 AM
I know right?! Soooo over-rated!!! Teams 1-9 better understand that!!!
http://images.wikia.com/walkingdead/images/4/42/I-See-What-You-Did-There..png

Bobo
03-30-2013, 02:44 AM
I just can never be smooth :-/

Black Bolt
04-15-2013, 11:08 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131806/ezekiel-ansah

Ansah is a difference making player with rare movement skills and closing speed. I've been saying this consistently since I saw him halfway through the college season.

BlueFunk96
04-17-2013, 07:30 PM
BYUTV made a short video about Ziggy's journey to the first round of the NFL draft:

A Ziggy Path to the NFL (http://youtu.be/OaGPqYaNS0U)

(My first link here - I hope it works)

Black Bolt
04-18-2013, 09:24 PM
ESPN Did a huge piece on him today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry6cftdUGic

GoRavens
04-18-2013, 10:12 PM
I don't think he'll ever be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL.
For a team to expect that is unrealistic.
I see him bulking up as a run stuffing end, more of a 3-4 type, versatile enough to move around schematically.
- That said, I wouldn't touch him in the first 20 picks.

K Train
04-18-2013, 10:13 PM
i actually am liking him as a big pass rushing OLB

SuperPacker
04-18-2013, 10:16 PM
I don't think he'll ever be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL.
For a team to expect that is unrealistic.
I see him bulking up as a run stuffing end, more of a 3-4 type, versatile enough to move around schematically.
- That said, I wouldn't touch him in the first 20 picks.

Why is that unrealistic to expect?

It's not as if he doesn't have the athleticism to become that type of player.

brat316
04-18-2013, 10:21 PM
Workout warrior. Doesnt have football iq, getting by on just skill. Should be like 2/4 round pick. Doesnt have the stats either for a first rounder

K Train
04-18-2013, 10:36 PM
Workout warrior. Doesnt have football iq, getting by on just skill. Should be like 2/4 round pick. Doesnt have the stats either for a first rounder

lebeau didnt even need his viagara to get it up when he put ansah through LB drills....fwiw

SuperPacker
04-18-2013, 10:38 PM
Workout warrior. Doesnt have football iq, getting by on just skill. Should be like 2/4 round pick. Doesnt have the stats either for a first rounder

You say workout warriors like it's a bad thing lol.

Doesn't have football iq? I'm not sure how you worked that one out. That's just a stereotype because he's athletic and only started playing the game recently. There is no basis for that. Not that it would be important anyway. He's going to be a defensive end rushing the passer, not a quarterback.

Stats? He played defensive tackle most of the year and had 4.5 sacks and 13 tfl. In his first year as a starter. What more do you expect?

Come back when you have an actual argument against Ansah.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-18-2013, 10:49 PM
You say workout warriors like it's a bad thing lol.

Doesn't have football iq? I'm not sure how you worked that one out. That's just a stereotype because he's athletic and only started playing the game recently. There is no basis for that. Not that it would be important anyway. He's going to be a defensive end rushing the passer, not a quarterback.

Stats? He played defensive tackle most of the year and had 4.5 sacks and 13 tfl. In his first year as a starter. What more do you expect?

Come back when you have an actual argument against Ansah.


Simply put, if I'm investing a high, premium draft pick, and premium money into a player that is being drafted solely for the ability to rush the passer, then I want him to have a baseline level of production rushing the passer in college.

If we're talking about Ansah as a DT prospect that is not going to rush the passer heavily in college, then his stats are fine. But we're not evaluating him as a DT in the NFL because he doesn't have the size. We're evaluating him as an edge rusher, and his stats simply do not meet the requirements for first round consideration as an edge rusher.

SuperPacker
04-18-2013, 11:06 PM
Simply put, if I'm investing a high, premium draft pick, and premium money into a player that is being drafted solely for the ability to rush the passer, then I want him to have a baseline level of production rushing the passer in college.

If we're talking about Ansah as a DT prospect that is not going to rush the passer heavily in college, then his stats are fine. But we're not evaluating him as a DT in the NFL because he doesn't have the size. We're evaluating him as an edge rusher, and his stats simply do not meet the requirements for first round consideration as an edge rusher.

It's a projection. Players aren't drafted for what they did in college, they're drafted for what they're going to do in the NFL. Pointless stats such as number of sacks, mean absolutely nothing.

brat316
04-18-2013, 11:24 PM
It's a projection. Players aren't drafted for what they did in college, they're drafted for what they're going to do in the NFL. Pointless stats such as number of sacks, mean absolutely nothing.

What would not be a pointless stat then?

I don't have a problem drafting and projecting him, just reaching for him in the top 10 of the first round is the problem.

You see other guys with great numbers and they are tossed aside for the second and third round. Say a Margus Hunt, why is he not as good as Ezekiel?

I also believe you are vastly under rating football IQ.

Caulibflower
04-18-2013, 11:43 PM
Read today that he didn't work out for the combine. 0.0

SuperPacker
04-19-2013, 12:04 AM
What would not be a pointless stat then?

I don't have a problem drafting and projecting him, just reaching for him in the top 10 of the first round is the problem.

You see other guys with great numbers and they are tossed aside for the second and third round. Say a Margus Hunt, why is he not as good as Ezekiel?

I also believe you are vastly under rating football IQ.

Stats vary in usefulness depending on the amount of outside factors that can effect them.

Eg. 'sacks' can be effected by a lot of different outside factors, such as whether the QB throws the ball away, whether the QB is escapes the sack, whether another pass rusher tackles him first, etc etc etc...

So why is Ansah a reach in the top 10?

And seriously? Is that an actual question? That's like asking 'Drew Brees and Chase Daniel are about the same size, why is Brees better than him?'. Because Brees does the things he's meant to do better than Chase Daniel. Same with Ziggy and Margus.

This is obviously just some stupid stereotype you have with 'workout warriors'. Have you even watched Ansah play before? You just assume Margus and Ziggy are the same players because they're both athletic. I hope you realize how ridiculous that is.

Bobo
04-19-2013, 12:08 AM
Simply put, if I'm investing a high, premium draft pick, and premium money into a player that is being drafted solely for the ability to rush the passer, then I want him to have a baseline level of production rushing the passer in college.

If we're talking about Ansah as a DT prospect that is not going to rush the passer heavily in college, then his stats are fine. But we're not evaluating him as a DT in the NFL because he doesn't have the size. We're evaluating him as an edge rusher, and his stats simply do not meet the requirements for first round consideration as an edge rusher.

I don't think any team is seeing him as just a pass rusher. He's a big, long armed athlete who is physical and plays the run well. He fits the bill as prototype 43 DE, he's not just a pass rusher.

It's like SuperPacker said, the NFL teams are trying to project what these guys will turn out to be as pros. Plenty of big stats guys are high pick busts, or aren't even viewed as worthy of high picks and also never do anything if they are given a shot as pros.

Clay Matthews stats simply do not meet the requirements for first round consideration as an edge rusher, right? It's just not so black and white. Btw, have you watched Ansah?

pierce2walker
04-19-2013, 12:15 AM
I understand the production argument against Ansah, but that argument also punishes him for the position/scheme he played in at BYU. As a 3-4 DE and NT he wasn't going to rack up a lot of sacks.

brat316
04-19-2013, 01:12 AM
Stats vary in usefulness depending on the amount of outside factors that can effect them.

Eg. 'sacks' can be effected by a lot of different outside factors, such as whether the QB throws the ball away, whether the QB is escapes the sack, whether another pass rusher tackles him first, etc etc etc...

So why is Ansah a reach in the top 10?

And seriously? Is that an actual question? That's like asking 'Drew Brees and Chase Daniel are about the same size, why is Brees better than him?'. Because Brees does the things he's meant to do better than Chase Daniel. Same with Ziggy and Margus.

This is obviously just some stupid stereotype you have with 'workout warriors'. Have you even watched Ansah play before? You just assume Margus and Ziggy are the same players because they're both athletic. I hope you realize how ridiculous that is.

They do provide a good backing, just like combine numbers provide a good backing. They aren't meant to be the stand alone factor, but you go see that he a great athlete, he doesn't have something to back it up. And yes, since he was playing vastly out of position you expect that, but you are going to project him to another position all together, and not only that but as a top 10 pick.

Just to many factors for things to work out properly, in the top 10. To high a bust factor, I would be all in for a mid first round pick.

HEHE....hell I would draft him at 11 just like J.J Watt.

And I was hoping you would provide me specifics as to why the 2 players are so different.

And seriously? Is that an actual question? That's like asking 'Drew Brees and Chase Daniel are about the same size, why is Brees better than him?'. Because Brees does the things he's meant to do better than Chase Daniel. Same with Ziggy and Margus.

Yes, and yes.

Brees does the things he's meant to do better than Chase Daniel

:confuse:

FUNBUNCHER
04-19-2013, 05:50 AM
Ansah might be slightly overdrafted in the top 5, but again remember in the rookie salary cap era teams have an incentive to take chances on talent.

Ansah to me jumps out on film with his movement skills, ability to chase and pursue and his strength. His recognition IMO is much better than Margus Hunt who looks slow to react quite often on game film.

Scouting and drafting for any NFL team is tricky. For instance, correct me if I'm wrong but did Brian Urlacher even play LBer extensively if at all at New Mexico?? Or was he a big safety that converted for the draft???

You put Ansah outside in a 43 front and give him some simple run/pass keys to read, I think he can dominate. No way would I put him at 34 OLB with coverage responsibilities.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:37 AM
It's a projection. Players aren't drafted for what they did in college, they're drafted for what they're going to do in the NFL. Pointless stats such as number of sacks, mean absolutely nothing.

I have told this guy the same thing for weeks now. He is stubborn and wants to be right at any cost.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:40 AM
I don't think any team is seeing him as just a pass rusher. He's a big, long armed athlete who is physical and plays the run well. He fits the bill as prototype 43 DE, he's not just a pass rusher.

It's like SuperPacker said, the NFL teams are trying to project what these guys will turn out to be as pros. Plenty of big stats guys are high pick busts, or aren't even viewed as worthy of high picks and also never do anything if they are given a shot as pros.

Clay Matthews stats simply do not meet the requirements for first round consideration as an edge rusher, right? It's just not so black and white. Btw, have you watched Ansah?

I have told this guy the same thing for weeks now. He is stubborn and wants to be right at any cost.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:46 AM
What would not be a pointless stat then?

I don't have a problem drafting and projecting him, just reaching for him in the top 10 of the first round is the problem.

You see other guys with great numbers and they are tossed aside for the second and third round. Say a Margus Hunt, why is he not as good as Ezekiel?I also believe you are vastly under rating football IQ.

I don't know why, but he definitely is. All you have to do is watch them play. The differences are obvious. Hunt does not get off of blocks at the same rate. He can't touch Ansah when it comes to pursuing the ball laterally. Ansah plays a little high at times- Hunt plays higher most of the time. Hunt gets caught inside way too much and allows runners to break contain whereas Ansah has a radar lock on the ball. Ansah's movement skills are elite, Hunt's don't even come close not.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:47 AM
I don't think he'll ever be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL.
For a team to expect that is unrealistic.
I see him bulking up as a run stuffing end, more of a 3-4 type, versatile enough to move around schematically.
- That said, I wouldn't touch him in the first 20 picks.

Good, but I bet Ozzie would touch him in the top ten if given the opportunity.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:50 AM
Ansah might be slightly overdrafted in the top 5, but again remember in the rookie salary cap era teams have an incentive to take chances on talent.

Ansah to me jumps out on film with his movement skills, ability to chase and pursue and his strength. His recognition IMO is much better than Margus Hunt who looks slow to react quite often on game film.

Scouting and drafting for any NFL team is tricky. For instance, correct me if I'm wrong but did Brian Urlacher even play LBer extensively if at all at New Mexico?? Or was he a big safety that converted for the draft???

You put Ansah outside in a 43 front and give him some simple run/pass keys to read, I think he can dominate. No way would I put him at 34 OLB with coverage responsibilities.

Yeah, and the other factor is the weak DE class of this year. You have to put him at the top as he is the best of the class. Combine that factor with DE being a premium position and no elite QB prospects to push other talent down, and Ansah is likely a top five selection in this years draft. Great character doesn't hurt either.

brat316
04-19-2013, 09:37 AM
I don't know why, but he definitely is. All you have to do is watch them play. The differences are obvious. Hunt does not get off of blocks at the same rate. He can't touch Ansah when it comes to pursuing the ball laterally. Ansah plays a little high at times- Hunt plays higher most of the time. Hunt gets caught inside way too much and allows runners to break contain whereas Ansah has a radar lock on the ball. Ansah's movement skills are elite, Hunt's don't even come close not.

Well Thank You, I was hoping SP would give a accurate answer like that.

And I know they are vastly different, but from a pure triangle numbers you would say both a workout warriors.

Historically we know that workout warriors more than not fail. I had more of a problem with SP thinking workout warriors are good.

Given each case is different cases by case and I do love Ansah, as I've stated in the start of this thread. But you should still take cation, when you draft and project him.

I think he can be just as good as J.J. Watt, in a 3-4 DE, or Jumbo 3-4 Olb and 4-3 DE. He gives you a lot of versatility, his main positions being 3-4DE in a 1 gap and 4-3 DE.

Iamcanadian
04-19-2013, 09:53 AM
I really don't think Ansah is going top 10, I don't think any GM is going to risk his career by taking him that high.

1) he was horrible during the Senior Bowl practices and manhandled by every OT there.
2) during the game he totally dominated but people forget that the playing rules of the Senior Bowl are very restrictive for both the offense and defense and really suit athletic ability over technique, he's never going to see that type of offense at the next level where his athletic ability won't be enough in complicated offenses.
3) he could develop but has a very high bust factor, and if he develops, it will be at least 2 years before he is anywhere near effective. So which NFL team is willing toi wait another 2 years before they can get anything out of this guy.

I think possibly, some team in the 11-17 group will draft him but he could have a really long day at the draft and may not get drafted till late round 1 or even early round 2.

Bobo
04-19-2013, 10:30 AM
2) during the game he totally dominated but people forget that the playing rules of the Senior Bowl are very restrictive for both the offense and defense and really suit athletic ability over technique, he's never going to see that type of offense at the next level where his athletic ability won't be enough in complicated offenses.
3) he could develop but has a very high bust factor, and if he develops, it will be at least 2 years before he is anywhere near effective. So which NFL team is willing toi wait another 2 years before they can get anything out of this guy.

His abilities shouldn't be totally nullified by an intricate NFL offensive game plan. Whether he is raw or not, I've seen him make plays all over the field and lined up in different positions. He seems to react pretty quickly to plays, doesn't seem to get lost as one may think with the term "raw" being used. And this is not rocket science for a DL, even at the NFL level. We're not talking about Vince Young transitioning to the NFL.

He may be raw in the fact that he's relatively new to football, but I don't see it taking 2 years before he can be effective. That is from a 43 front point of view anyway, where I think his abilities would be best used. If he's going to be a 34 olb, yeah he would probably transition slower. But even if he's just asked to rush the passer on passing downs at the start, I think he will do that well and be able to do it outside or inside further increasing his versatility and chances to contribute.

Roddoliver
04-19-2013, 10:31 AM
It's amazing how the QBs are being mercilessly destroyed while the most unproven players are praised as the top options in this draft. The QBs aren't good because of "inconsistencies". What has Ansah done? His consistency is he has not done anything, unless a Senior Bowl game can define a career. Remember Robert Ayers, the defensive MVP? It's puzzling. If you're going to bet on potential, I'd rather bet on a QB because you don't win without one.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 11:34 AM
I really don't think Ansah is going top 10, I don't think any GM is going to risk his career by taking him that high.

1) he was horrible during the Senior Bowl practices and manhandled by every OT there.
2) during the game he totally dominated but people forget that the playing rules of the Senior Bowl are very restrictive for both the offense and defense and really suit athletic ability over technique, he's never going to see that type of offense at the next level where his athletic ability won't be enough in complicated offenses.
3) he could develop but has a very high bust factor, and if he develops, it will be at least 2 years before he is anywhere near effective. So which NFL team is willing toi wait another 2 years before they can get anything out of this guy.

I think possibly, some team in the 11-17 group will draft him but he could have a really long day at the draft and may not get drafted till late round 1 or even early round 2.

Where are you getting that he was manhandled by every OT there?

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 11:36 AM
It's amazing how the QBs are being mercilessly destroyed while the most unproven players are praised as the top options in this draft. The QBs aren't good because of "inconsistencies". What has Ansah done? His consistency is he has not done anything, unless a Senior Bowl game can define a career. Remember Robert Ayers, the defensive MVP? It's puzzling. If you're going to bet on potential, I'd rather bet on a QB because you don't win without one.

Actually, he had 60+ tackles, 14 TFL and 4.5 sacks last year as an interior lineman. That's doing nothing?

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 11:38 AM
Well Thank You, I was hoping SP would give a accurate answer like that.

And I know they are vastly different, but from a pure triangle numbers you would say both a workout warriors.

Historically we know that workout warriors more than not fail. I had more of a problem with SP thinking workout warriors are good.

Given each case is different cases by case and I do love Ansah, as I've stated in the start of this thread. But you should still take cation, when you draft and project him.

I think he can be just as good as J.J. Watt, in a 3-4 DE, or Jumbo 3-4 Olb and 4-3 DE. He gives you a lot of versatility, his main positions being 3-4DE in a 1 gap and 4-3 DE.

That's just it, he is not simply a workout warrior. He has some production and good film. Truth be told, he had already made a name for himself prior to the combine. You don't make the leap from undrafted free agent to 1st round pick on a workout.

TACKLE
04-19-2013, 11:42 AM
I really don't think Ansah is going top 10, I don't think any GM is going to risk his career by taking him that high.

1) he was horrible during the Senior Bowl practices and manhandled by every OT there.
2) during the game he totally dominated but people forget that the playing rules of the Senior Bowl are very restrictive for both the offense and defense and really suit athletic ability over technique, he's never going to see that type of offense at the next level where his athletic ability won't be enough in complicated offenses.
3) he could develop but has a very high bust factor, and if he develops, it will be at least 2 years before he is anywhere near effective. So which NFL team is willing toi wait another 2 years before they can get anything out of this guy.

I think possibly, some team in the 11-17 group will draft him but he could have a really long day at the draft and may not get drafted till late round 1 or even early round 2.

smh. You do realize the rules at Senior Bowl do NOTHING to hold back O-Lineman and nothing to benefit D-Lineman. In fact, if anything, it's the opposite because there's no blitzing, it makes protections that much easier. 1-on-1's is a skill development drill. The fact that you're dismissing what someone did in an actual football game because of how he performed in a specific drill is ******* ridiculous.

Roddoliver
04-19-2013, 01:21 PM
Actually, he had 60+ tackles, 14 TFL and 4.5 sacks last year as an interior lineman. That's doing nothing?

He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 01:27 PM
He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.

Did Moore spend most of his time on the interior? Also, Moore fell for other reasons than just his 40 time, he had a pathetic bench press and also some bad press about his character. Ansah didn't. I don't discount you point that draft rankings can be very fluid, but again, something simple does not pass my smell test with Floyd. Again, why break him out BEFORE that combine? Why tell us what general managers are thinking at that time? Why keep mocking him to one team that has not shown a great deal of (public) interest? IMO, the Raiders are being used as a placeholder for Jeremiah's boy and he will not go to them.

Iamcanadian
04-19-2013, 01:47 PM
smh. You do realize the rules at Senior Bowl do NOTHING to hold back O-Lineman and nothing to benefit D-Lineman. In fact, if anything, it's the opposite because there's no blitzing, it makes protections that much easier. 1-on-1's is a skill development drill. The fact that you're dismissing what someone did in an actual football game because of how he performed in a specific drill is ******* ridiculous.

You do know that the scouts, coaches and GM's all leave before the game is played, and that the game is designed to match up players one on one to test their athletic ability. The OT's get no help from TE's, and the RB's rarely have a clue how to pass block, something they learn with the pros.
Technique at the next level is everything for a successful player, without it, your athletic ability alone, will get you a seat on the bench and on special teams, but will never make you a starter.

Ansah isn't asked to read and react, just attack and blow up what you can no matter what the consequences are. The offense is kept as simple as possible since this guys have only been together for a week and most of the week is spent on drills not actual practice for the game.

Ansah started a whole 4 games in his college career and you expecting him to be a top 5/10 pick off of one exhibition game with simplified rules.

I think you are in for a shock on draft day, Ansah has a huge bust factor given his limited exposure to football and GM's get fired especially for screwing up top 10 picks.

Bobo
04-19-2013, 02:54 PM
But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

It's not all about the workout. Ansah's "wow" plays blow Moore's wow plays away imo. And then the workout #'s just reaffirm that. There are legit excuses for the lack of prodution, but I do totally understand why everyone would want to see more production from Ansah. But it is what it is at this point. The teams go to projecting how they think guys will play at the next level.

I think the current vibe is correct that Ansah will go high, Moore will go lower, and the production #'s won't be the sole deciding factor, as it shouldn't be. Workout #'s shouldn't be the sole deciding factor either, and they are not, there is more to go by with the film.

stlouisfan37
04-19-2013, 03:02 PM
He was not just an interior lineman. Ansah was used in several different ways, many times playing outside and even as a rush LB. And he will work as an edge rusher in the NFL. Ansah has one year (actually 9 games) of production and his production is lacking compared to a guy like Damontre Moore, for example, who has two consistent years of good work against better competition. But because Ansah looks better in shorts and Moore had a slow dash, Ansah is a top 3 pick and Moore is being tossed out of the 1st round. These rankings are all about the workout.

Damontre Moore was a consensus a top 5 pick before the combine anNFd now he's trash because of a 40-yard dash. Just look at the hype Darius Slay is getting and how much Johnthan Banks is being disrespected because of the 40-yard dash. Warmack was the next big thing, best player in the draft and then the crazy hype started to fade after mediocre numbers at the combine. Now people are even saying the faster, more athletic Cooper is the best guard.

All these projections and sudden stock changes I'm talking about come from the media, draftniks and fans. It does not mean NFL teams work this way. Maybe general managers already had Ansah at the top before the media; maybe Ansah is overrated and won't be drafted as high as expected.

You also need to take into consideration that Ansah has been playing football for a couple of years while Moore has probably been playing since he was 8 or 9. Fundamentals and concepts that are well ingrained in the one player are still new to the other.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 03:23 PM
You do know that the scouts, coaches and GM's all leave before the game is played, and that the game is designed to match up players one on one to test their athletic ability. The OT's get no help from TE's, and the RB's rarely have a clue how to pass block, something they learn with the pros.
Technique at the next level is everything for a successful player, without it, your athletic ability alone, will get you a seat on the bench and on special teams, but will never make you a starter.

Ansah isn't asked to read and react, just attack and blow up what you can no matter what the consequences are. The offense is kept as simple as possible since this guys have only been together for a week and most of the week is spent on drills not actual practice for the game.

Ansah started a whole 4 games in his college career and you expecting him to be a top 5/10 pick off of one exhibition game with simplified rules.

I think you are in for a shock on draft day, Ansah has a huge bust factor given his limited exposure to football and GM's get fired especially for screwing up top 10 picks.

So explain why every other D-lineman didn't come close to looking like Ansah under the same conditions.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 03:24 PM
You also need to take into consideration that Ansah has been playing football for a couple of years while Moore has probably been playing since he was 8 or 9. Fundamentals and concepts that are well ingrained in the one player are still new to the other.

Exactly. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. It's a unique situation, but it's not hard to understand.

BlueFunk96
04-19-2013, 05:22 PM
I don't think he'll ever be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL.
For a team to expect that is unrealistic.
I see him bulking up as a run stuffing end, more of a 3-4 type, versatile enough to move around schematically.
- That said, I wouldn't touch him in the first 20 picks.

I'm interested in your reasoning why.

ESPN also did a Sports Science segment on him: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9186590

He had the fastest 10-yard burst of all the d-ends tested this year, even though he was the heaviest - faster even than 2nd-fastest Dion Jordan by almost 2 tenths of a second - that's over just 10 yards. His physical tools are better than any other d-lineman this year, and very consistent with current elite NFL linemen, particularly when you combine his skills with his size.

The on-field improvement he showed over the course of this season was impressive, as well. He's really smart and has picked up the game surprisingly well, considering he'd never played football prior to 2010.

Do you believe Dion Jordan can be a consistent pass rusher in the NFL? Then why not Ziggy, who has very comparable skills and quickness, plus is stronger and 30 lbs heavier?

BlueFunk96
04-19-2013, 05:27 PM
Simply put, if I'm investing a high, premium draft pick, and premium money into a player that is being drafted solely for the ability to rush the passer, then I want him to have a baseline level of production rushing the passer in college.

So I suppose you're applauding the Eagles for selecting Brandon Graham over Jason Pierre-Paul in 2010.

BlueFunk96
04-19-2013, 05:29 PM
Read today that he didn't work out for the combine. 0.0

He did. He just didn't go to one of the training centers. He trained at BYU while finishing up classes.

BlueFunk96
04-19-2013, 06:43 PM
I don't know why some of these misconceptions about Ziggy continue to be made.

In 2010 and 2011, Ziggy played almost exclusively at special teams. In 2010 (the first year in his entire life he ever played football - not even touch football) he was trained at outside linebacker. But his 3 tackles that year were, I believe, exclusively on special teams. Remember that during spring practice that year, he had to be taught how to put his pads on. Most players at this level had already played many years of tackle football.

In 2011, the coaches moved him to defensive line, which he had to learn that year, based on personnel and where they thought he could best help the team, if he were to get into a game, other than on special teams. By this year he was a special teams standout, but still learning a new position.

In fall 2012, because BYU was returning four 4-year starters on the d-line (due to missions and injuries). So the coaches moved Ziggy back to outside linebacker - even though they already had emerging star Kyle Van Noy and experienced and capable Spencer Hadley - the thought was to try to work Ziggy into the rotation, particularly on passing downs. He started really catching the coaches' eyes during fall camp, and it looked like he was going to get some significant time in the OLB rotation.

However, BYU's top DE, Eathyn Manumaleuna, went down with an injury in the third game, against Utah. Ziggy started the fourth game, against Boise State. In the first start of his career, Ziggy tied for the team lead with 8 tackles, had a team-leading 6 solo tackles, the team's only sack, and tied for the team lead with 2.5 TFL.

To me, his most impressive play in this game, his first start, a Thursday night game on ESPN, actually came on what turned out to be a fake punt. At the snap, he threw the 240-lb. defender about 5 yards to the side like a rag doll, recognized the fake, and swallowed up the ballcarrier for a loss. Really an impressive play for someone still just learning the game. I think this was when he first started being noticed on a national level, because he seemed to be everywhere in that game, including an instrumental part of a goal-line stand (he had two stops on the goal line).

Two games later, while fighting the flu (he had to sit out a series every once in a while due to nausea) he still managed two sacks, and better stats than BYU's star linebacker, Kyle Van Noy. This game is where he showed another impressive indicator of his grasp of the game - in only the third start of his career. One play, he started his rush, sensed a screen quickly enough to spin out of the, locate the intended receiver, the RB, before the ball was thrown to him, and run him down for a 4-5 yard loss.

Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.

In the bowl game against San Diego State, his teammate, Kyle Van Noy, had one of the best games any defensive player has had in recent memory in a bowl game, which overshadowed another really good game by Ziggy.

I think way too much is being made about Ziggy's struggles in practices leading up to the Senior Bowl. He actually started off the week strong. But then they got into technique-heavy drills, and he did struggle a bit - perhaps it's more accurate to say he didn't dominate as he was expected to.

After getting some advice from his DL coach to stop thinking so much when he gets into the game, while playing alongside Margus Hunt, Ziggy dominated in a game with really good college talent, most of whom are NFL-bound, while Hunt disappeared.

There was a really good feature on ESPN about him yesterday. The comment was made that the progress he made from the third game of the year against Utah, until later in the season against Notre Dame, was remarkable, with regard to playing against double teams. Against Utah, he had some trouble when double teamed. But by the Notre Dame game, he had learned how to use his hands much better and avoid the double teams. Ziggy's learning curve this past year was far steeper than most seniors. You expect seniors to know these sorts of things. But this was really Ziggy's first year playing the position, much less starting. If you're looking at film from earlier in the year, you're seeing a very inexperienced player who has trouble with things like double teams and pass coverage. But the remarkable thing about Ziggy is how quickly he picked it up during the season. He essentially fit four years' worth of experience into a single season.

So, no, there's no guarantee he's going to be a star in the NFL. But his athleticism, particularly for a guy his size, but amazingly even for a guy 30 lbs. lighter than he is, is elite. He's extremely smart, both in baseline intelligence (academic scholarship, major in actuarial science, minor in math - do most NFL draftees even know what a minor is? Or math, for that matter?) and in football IQ (examples are the Boise State fake punt and Utah State screen recognition). He's the most explosive defensive lineman in this year's draft, and you don't even have to say "for his size," as he's comparable to the best of the small defensive ends, even though he's 30 lbs. heavier. And to top it off, he's a relentless, violent, high motor player.

Where are the red flags on him? He's dominated in actual games, he showed elite athleticism in the combine and subsquent workouts, he's really smart, he's had ZERO legal or behavioral issues, and he's shown himself to be extremely teachable and a high character guy. All of the reasonable criticisms I've seen of him involve technique, which can be taught. And you need to consider, that he doesn't have years of bad habits he's developed that need to be overcome. I suppose the only other real criticism of him is that he can get winded later in the game. Okay, so he'll need to work himself into a little better shape.

A lot of guys who are project players are considered projects because they have talent, but perhaps they need a little more size or strength. Or perhaps they have size and strength, but their talent level is not that high, and with experience and technique, they can learn to maximize the talent they have and become a contributor. Ziggy has elite athleticism and speed. What makes anyone think he can't be successful rushing the passer in the NFL? I'd have thought his run defense would be the biggest question. With how much he improved during his only year with significant playing time in organized football, why is it reasonable to assume he's not going to continue to improve? You can look at a guy who's played at a consistent level for 3 years and reasonably assume he's reached his peak. Ziggy's not that guy. Ziggy's improvement was meteoric last season. What makes anyone with half a brain think he's hit his ceiling?

Ziggy's freaking 270 lbs and runs a 4.63 in the 40. His combine 4.63 would have ranked him at # 18 among the running backs at the combine - Oklahoma State RB Joseph Randle (projected to go in round 2 or 3) also ran a 4.63 - at 207 lbs., almost 65 lbs. lighter than Ziggy.

Does this answer the guys who wonder how Ziggy can be a top 10 draft pick without having better "production" in college?

Yeah, I'm sniffing Ziggy's jock. He's the kind of talent that BYU rarely gets, and his story and his talent are amazing. In one year, he's become probably the most beloved BYU player ever. How can I not be optimistic for him? We haven't had a lot of BYU guys to follow in the NFL lately. We're definitely ready for one.

BlueFunk96
04-19-2013, 07:09 PM
By the way, yesterday on Sports Center, when asked if Ziggy compares to Jason Pierre-Paul in raw ability, Bill Polian said no - Ziggy's more physical. Polian (who would know) said the better comparison is Bruce Smith, especially in how he converts speed to power.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:23 PM
By the way, yesterday on Sports Center, when asked if Ziggy compares to Jason Pierre-Paul in raw ability, Bill Polian said no - Ziggy's more physical. Polian (who would know) said the better comparison is Bruce Smith, especially in how he converts speed to power.

Wow. Hopefully he goes #3.

Black Bolt
04-19-2013, 07:24 PM
I don't know why some of these misconceptions about Ziggy continue to be made.

In 2010 and 2011, Ziggy played almost exclusively at special teams. In 2010 (the first year in his entire life he ever played football - not even touch football) he was trained at outside linebacker. But his 3 tackles that year were, I believe, exclusively on special teams. Remember that during spring practice that year, he had to be taught how to put his pads on. Most players at this level had already played many years of tackle football.

In 2011, the coaches moved him to defensive line, which he had to learn that year, based on personnel and where they thought he could best help the team, if he were to get into a game, other than on special teams. By this year he was a special teams standout, but still learning a new position.

In fall 2012, because BYU was returning four 4-year starters on the d-line (due to missions and injuries). So the coaches moved Ziggy back to outside linebacker - even though they already had emerging star Kyle Van Noy and experienced and capable Spencer Hadley - the thought was to try to work Ziggy into the rotation, particularly on passing downs. He started really catching the coaches' eyes during fall camp, and it looked like he was going to get some significant time in the OLB rotation.

However, BYU's top DE, Eathyn Manumaleuna, went down with an injury in the third game, against Utah. Ziggy started the fourth game, against Boise State. In the first start of his career, Ziggy tied for the team lead with 8 tackles, had a team-leading 6 solo tackles, the team's only sack, and tied for the team lead with 2.5 TFL.

To me, his most impressive play in this game, his first start, a Thursday night game on ESPN, actually came on what turned out to be a fake punt. At the snap, he threw the 240-lb. defender about 5 yards to the side like a rag doll, recognized the fake, and swallowed up the ballcarrier for a loss. Really an impressive play for someone still just learning the game. I think this was when he first started being noticed on a national level, because he seemed to be everywhere in that game, including an instrumental part of a goal-line stand (he had two stops on the goal line).

Two games later, while fighting the flu (he had to sit out a series every once in a while due to nausea) he still managed two sacks, and better stats than BYU's star linebacker, Kyle Van Noy. This game is where he showed another impressive indicator of his grasp of the game - in only the third start of his career. One play, he started his rush, sensed a screen quickly enough to spin out of the, locate the intended receiver, the RB, before the ball was thrown to him, and run him down for a 4-5 yard loss.

Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.

In the bowl game against San Diego State, his teammate, Kyle Van Noy, had one of the best games any defensive player has had in recent memory in a bowl game, which overshadowed another really good game by Ziggy.

I think way too much is being made about Ziggy's struggles in practices leading up to the Senior Bowl. He actually started off the week strong. But then they got into technique-heavy drills, and he did struggle a bit - perhaps it's more accurate to say he didn't dominate as he was expected to.

After getting some advice from his DL coach to stop thinking so much when he gets into the game, while playing alongside Margus Hunt, Ziggy dominated in a game with really good college talent, most of whom are NFL-bound, while Hunt disappeared.

There was a really good feature on ESPN about him yesterday. The comment was made that the progress he made from the third game of the year against Utah, until later in the season against Notre Dame, was remarkable, with regard to playing against double teams. Against Utah, he had some trouble when double teamed. But by the Notre Dame game, he had learned how to use his hands much better and avoid the double teams. Ziggy's learning curve this past year was far steeper than most seniors. You expect seniors to know these sorts of things. But this was really Ziggy's first year playing the position, much less starting. If you're looking at film from earlier in the year, you're seeing a very inexperienced player who has trouble with things like double teams and pass coverage. But the remarkable thing about Ziggy is how quickly he picked it up during the season. He essentially fit four years' worth of experience into a single season.

So, no, there's no guarantee he's going to be a star in the NFL. But his athleticism, particularly for a guy his size, but amazingly even for a guy 30 lbs. lighter than he is, is elite. He's extremely smart, both in baseline intelligence (academic scholarship, major in actuarial science, minor in math - do most NFL draftees even know what a minor is? Or math, for that matter?) and in football IQ (examples are the Boise State fake punt and Utah State screen recognition). He's the most explosive defensive lineman in this year's draft, and you don't even have to say "for his size," as he's comparable to the best of the small defensive ends, even though he's 30 lbs. heavier. And to top it off, he's a relentless, violent, high motor player.

Where are the red flags on him? He's dominated in actual games, he showed elite athleticism in the combine and subsquent workouts, he's really smart, he's had ZERO legal or behavioral issues, and he's shown himself to be extremely teachable and a high character guy. All of the reasonable criticisms I've seen of him involve technique, which can be taught. And you need to consider, that he doesn't have years of bad habits he's developed that need to be overcome. I suppose the only other real criticism of him is that he can get winded later in the game. Okay, so he'll need to work himself into a little better shape.

A lot of guys who are project players are considered projects because they have talent, but perhaps they need a little more size or strength. Or perhaps they have size and strength, but their talent level is not that high, and with experience and technique, they can learn to maximize the talent they have and become a contributor. Ziggy has elite athleticism and speed. What makes anyone think he can't be successful rushing the passer in the NFL? I'd have thought his run defense would be the biggest question. With how much he improved during his only year with significant playing time in organized football, why is it reasonable to assume he's not going to continue to improve? You can look at a guy who's played at a consistent level for 3 years and reasonably assume he's reached his peak. Ziggy's not that guy. Ziggy's improvement was meteoric last season. What makes anyone with half a brain think he's hit his ceiling?

Ziggy's freaking 270 lbs and runs a 4.63 in the 40. His combine 4.63 would have ranked him at # 18 among the running backs at the combine - Oklahoma State RB Joseph Randle (projected to go in round 2 or 3) also ran a 4.63 - at 207 lbs., almost 65 lbs. lighter than Ziggy.

Does this answer the guys who wonder how Ziggy can be a top 10 draft pick without having better "production" in college?

Yeah, I'm sniffing Ziggy's jock. He's the kind of talent that BYU rarely gets, and his story and his talent are amazing. In one year, he's become probably the most beloved BYU player ever. How can I not be optimistic for him? We haven't had a lot of BYU guys to follow in the NFL lately. We're definitely ready for one.

Surely there will be a slew of responses. Any second now...

brat316
04-19-2013, 07:58 PM
Two games after that, he had a nice game in a close loss against a Notre Dame team that would be the #1 ranked team the next day.

The next game, at Georgia Tech, he had another dominant game.


LOL. wrote about every game, picking out each detail and these 2, they were really dominant games for him.

Bobo
04-19-2013, 08:04 PM
Nice post BlueFunk.

I didn't like JPP near as much from college tape compared to Ziggy. I think his ceiling is likely higher, and that's scary.

BroadwayJoe10
04-19-2013, 09:26 PM
Wow. Hopefully he goes #3.

So you dislike Daniel Jeremiah, a former scout, because he mocks a certain player to your team that you don't like. But a few paragraphs from poster, on an internet draft site, is the type of information you can really rally behind?? Sounds about right...

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-19-2013, 09:37 PM
So I suppose you're applauding the Eagles for selecting Brandon Graham over Jason Pierre-Paul in 2010.

Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-19-2013, 09:43 PM
Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:


Ezekiel Ansah (BYU): A young, developmental-type player who has only been playing football a few seasons, Ansah ran the 40-yard dash in 4.56 seconds. At 6’5” and 270 lbs., he is the perfect blend of strength, speed, power and agility. There is just one very small issue: He doesn’t know how to play football. He was a one-year “starter.” I am using starter very loosely, because in watching his tape, I saw he was mostly used as a situational pass rusher, and he only started nine games last season.

BYU had one of the best defenses in the country last year. The Cougars finished third overall in total defense, tenth in pass defense and second in rush defense. They had a fundamentally sound defense with a true leader, a player who, if he had come out this season, would have been a first-round draft selection. His name is Kyle Van Noy. Below is a quick breakdown of Ansah and Van Noy. See which one you think is a legitimate first-round talent.
Player Games Total Tkls Total TFL Career Sacks PB FF INT Blocked Kicks Impact Plays Impact Plays Per Game Avg
Ezekiel Ansah 31 55.5 13 4.5 10 1 1 0 29.5 0.95
Kyle Van Noy 39 133.5 44.5 22 10 11 5 3 101.5 2.60

BYU opponents weren’t afraid of Ansah. They were afraid of Van Noy. He is the reason why offenses left a tight end on the line to block Ansah, and more often than not, they were moving their protection to Van Noy’s areas.

In 31 career games, Ansah averaged .95 impact plays a game, whereas Van Noy averaged roughly 2.60 impact plays a game.

There has been a lot of talk of Ansah being compared to Jason Pierre-Paul, but remember Pierre-Paul actually played. He saw the field at a junior college for a couple of seasons before playing a year at South Florida University. The NFL isn’t a venue where first-round draft picks have the luxury of sitting and watching.

If we fast forward four years and take a look back, and Ansah has failed to produce in the NFL, are you really going to be shocked about a player who only had nine career starts in college, never played the game before college and has a limited pass technique and skill set? I don’t think so.



(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-draft-2013-ogletree-ansah-bust)

Black Bolt
04-20-2013, 01:24 AM
So you dislike Daniel Jeremiah, a former scout, because he mocks a certain player to your team that you don't like. But a few paragraphs from poster, on an internet draft site, is the type of information you can really rally behind?? Sounds about right...

No, I dislike Jeremiah's seemingly bias promotion of one player. The detailed information the "poster" provided on Ansah has nothing to due with my perception of Jeremiah. Nice try.

Black Bolt
04-20-2013, 01:26 AM
Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:



(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-draft-2013-ogletree-ansah-bust)

This is a pretty stupid article. Van Noy was by far the more accomplished, experienced player. Of course teams were game planning around him. I guess you didn't get the point about Ansah learning the game and improving on the field during the season. He was an undrafted free agent coming into his year.

FUNBUNCHER
04-20-2013, 07:18 AM
Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.


Wait, are you saying Brandon Graham is a better player than JPP??
Please THINK before you type.

JPP didn't start as a rookie. His 2nd year in the league he had 16.5 sacks in 12(!!) games started. Last year JPP faced constant double teams and his production dipped.

Brandon Graham has been garbage thus far in his NFL career. Injuries unfortunately are a part of the game, but don't come here with this BS that Graham is better than JPP on a per play basis.

Graham did NOT have a better year than JPP last season. I saw both those guys twice last season. One of them the Skins were able to stone with a TE.
The other guy gave Trent Williams all he could handle and sacked RGIII.

Graham is an afterthought in the NFL. If the Eagles tried to trade him, they'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick.

What I hate is when people hide behind stat crunchers like PFF to defend a crap argument.

JPP is up here.
Brandon Graham is waaaaaay down there. Until further notice, Graham is on bust-watch.:wave:

No one from the 2010 draft has more sacks than JPP.

What a crazy comparison for Pierre-Paul.:facepalm:
At least pick a player whom most NFL fans consider to be GOOD.

Black Bolt
04-20-2013, 09:50 AM
I pulled these quotes from another board:

Kyle Van Noy, BYU linebacker:

"Ziggy's first practices as a walk-on in 2010 have kind of become legend, but it's all true. He tried to cram the wrong pads into the wrong slots on his pants. He put his shoulder pads on backward. The first times he lined up, he either just stood there straight up or he'd get down like a frog on all fours. But nobody laughed at him because he was so big we were afraid of what he might do to everyone if he got mad."



Bronco Mendenhall, BYU coach:

"He had no concept of how to tackle, no idea about leverage or getting low on someone to bring them down. He just ran around hitting stuff, straight up. But he was so fast and so naturally strong that technique didn't matter. The first time we ran him in some kickoff drills at practice, he took off and knocked down about nine guys, all arms, and never broke stride. The play ended and he was just standing there, bodies all over the ground around him, looking like, 'What? Did I do something wrong?' One of the first times we put him into a game was on kick coverage halfway through the 2010 season [against Wyoming on Oct. 23]. The same thing happened. We basically just said, 'Go hit the guy with the ball.' He ran 10 yards ahead of everyone else and brought the player down by himself."



Romney Fuga, BYU nose tackle:

"We got him in the weight room and realized he had no idea what he was doing. He'd never lifted a weight in his life. But we'd all seen him with his shirt off and we thought, Wait, all of this is just DNA?"



Chris Petersen, Boise State coach:

"We played BYU in our third game of the 2012 season. Thursday night, national TV. It was a super-tight game when we recovered a fumble on their 1-yard line in the second half. Well, BYU has been strong along the defensive front for decades, but their best defensive end [Eathyn Manumaleuna] was out with an injury, so we were thinking we might have an advantage. We were going right at that position. But suddenly this No. 47 blasted in and dropped [running back] D.J. Harper for a loss. Next play, he did it again. They ended up stopping us on downs. We had zero information on No. 47, so our staff was scrambling for a roster, asking, 'Who is this guy?' He was so big, we wondered if maybe BYU had a jersey mix-up and one of its starters had switched numbers for a couple of plays or something. It turned out that Ansah had just never really played before. I don't know how many tackles he had, but it was a lot. And he also blew up a fake punt attempt. On one hand, we felt like, Man, how could we let some unknown guy beat us like that? Then when we saw what he did the rest of the year, it was like, Oh, he did that to everybody. Unfortunately, he had his arrival moment against us."



Steve Kaufusi, BYU defensive line coach:

"After the Boise game, I ran up to Ziggy with the stats. I told him he had eight tackles, two and a half for a loss, broke up a pass and had the first sack Boise had given up all year. This is a guy who had seven tackles in all of 2011. I was going crazy; he just smiled and said, 'Thanks, Coach, I think I did good too.' I don't think he understood what he'd done. And he did it on national TV, with everybody in the NFL watching."



Omoregie Uzzi, Georgia Tech right guard:

"As complicated as people think our offense option is, the goal is really simple: All of us on the offensive line just look across to see who we're facing and say, 'Okay, that's the guy I have to beat on this play.' We're constantly sizing players up, and it takes a lot to surprise me. I'm 6'3", 300 pounds -- not a giant, but not small either. Well, we lined up against BYU [on Oct. 27, 2012] and I saw this 6'5" guy standing in. I thought, Whoa! I looked over at [left guard] Shaquille Mason and was like, 'Good luck, dude.' Ansah killed us. He was all over the place all day. But the crazy thing was, the whole time he was smiling and very polite, like, 'This is fun; thank you for playing with us today.' You don't want to like a guy who is beating up on you, but you couldn't help it with him."



Todd McShay, ESPN NFL Draft analyst:

"I'm watching Ansah film and I get to that Georgia Tech game in which he had eight tackles and a sack. I was so impressed that I started tweeting while I watched. His explosiveness is what separates him from other defensive ends, which is where he'll play in the NFL. He just killed the guard and fullback in the Georgia Tech game. If that fullback quit football forever after that game, I would totally understand."



Mendenhall:

"Remember that first time on special teams? Fast-forward to our last game of 2012, the Poinsettia Bowl against San Diego State. We were calling a defense that had Ziggy as the screen defender. He popped off the line and drew the block from the tackle. When the tackle released, Ziggy turned, got in his hip pocket and made the play. This was a guy who understood the nuances of the game. He was basically fake rushing, inviting the screen so he could make a play on it. That's where we are now, just a couple dozen games removed from 'Go hit the guy with the ball.' "

cmarq83
04-20-2013, 10:06 AM
Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".

I'm really tired of people constantly bringing up Jason Pierre Paul as the answer to all questions about "raw" prospects. Guess what? It's only been THREE years in the league for Pierre Paul as a player. He sucked in his rookie season, and he was average last year. 2011 was his only "good" year so far. He could still be a disappointing player in the long run. Players have one good year and never do anything else noteworthy all the time in the NFL. The history of the NFL is littered with "one year wonders". Pierre Paul could easily become one of these.

Comparing 2 players solely on the basis of a per snap performance pass rushing basis is so fundamentally idiotic, especially when one player is a situational player while the other is a full time player. I like Brandon Graham a lot, and think that he is a solid rusher who has caught some bad breaks in his career, but he's no JPP.

The truth is not all pass rushing snaps are created equal. Somebody is going to rush very differently on 2nd and 2 than 3rd and 16. Also, blocking assignments, quality of opposing tackles, rush assignments, and technique varies widely from team to team. Simply saying player x got 20 rushes in 200 snaps doesn't mean he would have had 40 rushes in 400 snaps.

There is a lot more to being a quality passing situation DE than simply getting high pressure statistics, especially since the definition of a pressure is so nebulous and dependent on the person to begin with.

BlueFunk96
04-20-2013, 10:14 AM
Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:



(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-draft-2013-ogletree-ansah-bust)

Just shows how you can manipulate statistics. Most of those 31 games Ziggy played were solely on special teams. Van Noy was highly recruited out of high school and played significantly at linebacker all three years.

I doubt the "expertise" of someone who makes such basic errors analyzing Ziggy's season. Also, it shows how difficult it is to support the position that Ziggy's got substantial risk of being a bust. And if you think opposing coaches weren't afraid of Ziggy by the second half of last season, you're dreaming.

BlueFunk96
04-20-2013, 10:17 AM
Graham had a better year last year, and had a better rookie season until his injury.

Except for 2011, when Graham had to sit out the entire year due to the ACL injury he suffered in 2010, Graham has actually been a better player than Pierre Paul on a per-snap basis. Check Profootballfocus.com for their 4-3 DE rankings.

And I actually think that going forward, Graham can have the better overall career than PIerre-Paul. I think in 5 years, we will look back at Pierre Pauls' career and say "well, aside from that fluky 2011 season, he wasn't all that great".


I don't necessarily disagree. Except that the Eagles passed over a player who is now a pro bowler for one who is not. Right now, if that draft were done over, there's not a team in the league who would pick Graham over Pierre-Paul.

wicket
04-20-2013, 10:18 AM
I don't necessarily disagree. Except that the Eagles passed over a player who is now a pro bowler for one who is not. Right now, if that draft were done over, there's not a team in the league who would pick Graham over Pierre-Paul.

that being said, the guys ND focused on (only BYU game i saw in its entirety) were van Noy and Ogletree

BlueFunk96
04-20-2013, 10:38 AM
that being said, the guys ND focused on (only BYU game i saw in its entirety) were van Noy and Ogletree

Well, considering that they rushed 43 times and only passed 17 times in that game, it makes a lot of sense to focus on blocking the middle linebacker more than a pass-rushing defensive end when your game plan is to run the ball.

I agree, Van Noy's a beast, and you always have to focus on him. Ask San Diego State.

Rosebud
04-20-2013, 05:39 PM
I hope Zeke drops to the giants so he and JPP can rape Eagles QBs together for the next decade, or until AcheTen picks a new favorite team.

Bobo
04-20-2013, 06:07 PM
Here's an interesting article about Ansah's bust potential written by Predictionmachine.com's resident draft expert:



(from http://predictionmachine.com/nfl-draft-2013-ogletree-ansah-bust)

Some of those "arguments" against Ansah are just nonsense. Looks like someone is maybe trying a little too hard to play Devil's Advocate against Ansah's legitimacy as a round 1 talent.

eagles nut
04-20-2013, 07:06 PM
I don't think there's any question that JPP has had the more successful career to this point compared to Graham but the vast majority of people who criticize the Eagles for that decision are full of it. If you asked Eagles fans before the draft who they'd rather have of the two, 85 percent would have answered Graham. Everyone was worried about him being a raw player from a small school. From what I read of Giants' fans opinions before the 2010 draft, roughly the same percentage would have preferred Graham. It's revisionist history to criticize the pick now.

SilentJaguar
04-20-2013, 07:35 PM
Some of those "arguments" against Ansah are just nonsense. Looks like someone is maybe trying a little too hard to play Devil's Advocate against Ansah's legitimacy as a round 1 talent.
Said it before and I'll say it again: I'd take Ziggy at #2 and be freaking ecstatic about it.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-20-2013, 11:24 PM
I don't necessarily disagree. Except that the Eagles passed over a player who is now a pro bowler for one who is not. Right now, if that draft were done over, there's not a team in the league who would pick Graham over Pierre-Paul.

Let's revisit this in 5 years, which will give a more accurate picture of the two players.

Graham could easily outplay Pierre Paul over the course of their entire careers.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-20-2013, 11:27 PM
Comparing 2 players solely on the basis of a per snap performance pass rushing basis is so fundamentally idiotic, especially when one player is a situational player while the other is a full time player. I like Brandon Graham a lot, and think that he is a solid rusher who has caught some bad breaks in his career, but he's no JPP.

The truth is not all pass rushing snaps are created equal. Somebody is going to rush very differently on 2nd and 2 than 3rd and 16. Also, blocking assignments, quality of opposing tackles, rush assignments, and technique varies widely from team to team. Simply saying player x got 20 rushes in 200 snaps doesn't mean he would have had 40 rushes in 400 snaps.

There is a lot more to being a quality passing situation DE than simply getting high pressure statistics, especially since the definition of a pressure is so nebulous and dependent on the person to begin with.

You're overthinking it.

Pressure is pressure, period. Graham was more productive based on the number of snaps he received.

If Graham had played the same number of snaps as Pierre Paul I am confident that you could literally double Graham's stats (ending up with 10+ sacks, and a ton more pressure).

In fact, I will be shocked if Graham doesn't outproduce Pierre Paul in the next 5 years as long as Graham is given a starting position on a defense somewhere.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-20-2013, 11:30 PM
Wait, are you saying Brandon Graham is a better player than JPP??
Please THINK before you type.

JPP didn't start as a rookie. His 2nd year in the league he had 16.5 sacks in 12(!!) games started. Last year JPP faced constant double teams and his production dipped.


Constant double teams is BS. It's an excuse. Pierre Paul simply did not produce last year.

Graham outplayed Pierre Paul in their most recent NFL seasons.


Brandon Graham has been garbage thus far in his NFL career. Injuries unfortunately are a part of the game, but don't come here with this BS that Graham is better than JPP on a per play basis.


Graham suffered an ACL tear in his rookie season that disallowed him from playing in 2011.

Last year, Graham *was* a better played than Pierre Paul. It's just that he played roughly half the snaps. That doesn't change the fact that on a per-play basis, Graham was better than Pierre Paul last year.


Graham did NOT have a better year than JPP last season. I saw both those guys twice last season. One of them the Skins were able to stone with a TE.
The other guy gave Trent Williams all he could handle and sacked RGIII.


Yeah, so basing an opinion on two games you watched casually as a fan is far more important than the entire body of work of the two guys, their exact stats, and the rating that Profootballfocus.com gives them.. OK.


Graham is an afterthought in the NFL. If the Eagles tried to trade him, they'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick.


Graham will outplay Pierre Paul in the next 5 years and after their careers are over people will say that Graham was the better player.

Black Bolt
04-21-2013, 12:28 AM
I don't think there's any question that JPP has had the more successful career to this point compared to Graham but the vast majority of people who criticize the Eagles for that decision are full of it. If you asked Eagles fans before the draft who they'd rather have of the two, 85 percent would have answered Graham. Everyone was worried about him being a raw player from a small school. From what I read of Giants' fans opinions before the 2010 draft, roughly the same percentage would have preferred Graham. It's revisionist history to criticize the pick now.

Which brings us back to the point. Teams aren't going to make the same mistake twice. They understand the potential of Ansah.

Rosebud
04-21-2013, 05:46 PM
... he's an eagles fan? i apparently totally missed starheather coming back.

I'm pretty sure he is an iggles fan. But he's not half the troll Heather was, Thumper maybe.

Rosebud
04-21-2013, 07:24 PM
I don't think there's any question that JPP has had the more successful career to this point compared to Graham but the vast majority of people who criticize the Eagles for that decision are full of it. If you asked Eagles fans before the draft who they'd rather have of the two, 85 percent would have answered Graham. Everyone was worried about him being a raw player from a small school. From what I read of Giants' fans opinions before the 2010 draft, roughly the same percentage would have preferred Graham. It's revisionist history to criticize the pick now.

No. It would be revisionist history to say the pick was criticized at the time, but criticizing it now is totally legit. And just because a lot of people where wrong about JPP back then doesn't change that.

You're overthinking it.

Pressure is pressure, period. Graham was more productive based on the number of snaps he received.

If Graham had played the same number of snaps as Pierre Paul I am confident that you could literally double Graham's stats (ending up with 10+ sacks, and a ton more pressure).

In fact, I will be shocked if Graham doesn't outproduce Pierre Paul in the next 5 years as long as Graham is given a starting position on a defense somewhere.

Gotta love the classic, my player is so good he'll totally out produce this probowler who's already played a pivot role for a title winning team...if he's good enough for anybody to start him.

WMD
04-21-2013, 11:58 PM
Haven't been following the draft too closely this year, but since Ansah is projected to go to Detroit, I've been reading up on him some..

Anyways, aren't people concerned about Ansah being so raw at 24? I could see people freaking out over him if he was 20 or 21.. but he's only a few months younger than JPP, who was said to be pretty damn raw when he came out 3 years ago, and he was picked #15. I like what I see, but at #5 I don't know..

BlueFunk96
04-22-2013, 12:03 PM
Haven't been following the draft too closely this year, but since Ansah is projected to go to Detroit, I've been reading up on him some..

Anyways, aren't people concerned about Ansah being so raw at 24? I could see people freaking out over him if he was 20 or 21.. but he's only a few months younger than JPP, who was said to be pretty damn raw when he came out 3 years ago, and he was picked #15. I like what I see, but at #5 I don't know..

I don't think his age has any bearing. He's 23 now (will be 24 next month, I believe). He never played football until March 2010, when he was 20. If anything, the fact that after only 3 years of playing football, the fact that he's even being considered as a 1st round NFL draft pick says a lot about his talent and how quickly he's picked up the game. BYU used him at 3 or 4 different positions during his only year of significant playing time.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-22-2013, 12:28 PM
No. It would be revisionist history to say the pick was criticized at the time, but criticizing it now is totally legit. And just because a lot of people where wrong about JPP back then doesn't change that.

Gotta love the classic, my player is so good he'll totally out produce this probowler who's already played a pivot role for a title winning team...if he's good enough for anybody to start him.

Did you watch the NFL last year?

If I'm not mistaken, the most recent NFl season was the 2012 season. In that season, Brandon Graham was a better player than Jason Pierre Paul. In almost half the number of snaps, Graham outproduced Pierre Paul with regard to sacks+hits+hurries and did just as good of a job in the run game.

And really, it's only been three years since the 2010 draft. It's literally impossible to definitively say that "Player X is better than Player Y" and "it was a mistake to pick Player Y over Player X". Five years down the road, we'll be able to say things like this, but right now, that's crazy. Pierre Paul had one good year, and Graham has shown flashes of elite talent. We'll have to see how this plays out for at least 4-5 more years before we can say anything definitive.

FUNBUNCHER
04-22-2013, 12:47 PM
Did you watch the NFL last year?

If I'm not mistaken, the most recent NFl season was the 2012 season. In that season, Brandon Graham was a better player than Jason Pierre Paul. In almost half the number of snaps, Graham outproduced Pierre Paul with regard to sacks+hits+hurries and did just as good of a job in the run game.

And really, it's only been three years since the 2010 draft. It's literally impossible to definitively say that "Player X is better than Player Y" and "it was a mistake to pick Player Y over Player X". Five years down the road, we'll be able to say things like this, but right now, that's crazy. Pierre Paul had one good year, and Graham has shown flashes of elite talent. We'll have to see how this plays out for at least 4-5 more years before we can say anything definitive.


Understand that NO ONE else is as bullish on Brandon Graham as you are.
Three years is enough of a sample size to get a read on a pass rusher. JPP has been a difference maker every year he's been in a Giants uni.

You say JPP 'had one good year,' his All-Pro season.:facepalm: However his other two seasons were still productive.


If Graham has shown 'flashes of elite talent(!!)'lol, WTF has JPP done in NY???
Graham hasn't had one good season yet.

Graham might end up being a decent 34 OLB, but right now he's an undersized, physically challenged 43 DE.

I'm sure most Philly fans would trade Graham straight up for JPP right now and be happy about it.

Graham isn't even on Orakpo's level, and Rak isn't an elite pass rusher.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-22-2013, 02:11 PM
Understand that NO ONE else is as bullish on Brandon Graham as you are.
Three years is enough of a sample size to get a read on a pass rusher. JPP has been a difference maker every year he's been in a Giants uni.


He was only a real difference maker in 2011. In his rookie season he did nothing, and last year he was pedestrian as a pass rusher and good as a run defender.



You say JPP 'had one good year,' his All-Pro season.:facepalm: However his other two seasons were still productive.


Again, basically he was outplayed by Graham in their rookie seasons (2010). Last year, he was again outplayed by Graham on a per-snap basis.

In 2011 Graham had to sit out due to injury but if he hadn't been injured he just as easily could have outplayed Pierre Paul.



If Graham has shown 'flashes of elite talent(!!)'lol, WTF has JPP done in NY???
Graham hasn't had one good season yet.


Graham HAD A BETTER YEAR than Pierre Paul last year.

Graham had more production in his rookie season.

In 2011, again, I have already explained this.


Graham might end up being a decent 34 OLB, but right now he's an undersized, physically challenged 43 DE.


Graham doesn't have great height but he has more explosion and quickness than Pierre Paul.


I'm sure most Philly fans would trade Graham straight up for JPP right now and be happy about it.


Not if they're smart. There's more to an NFL player's career than their first three years, especially if they were injured during their rookie season.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2013, 02:16 PM
Lol, he's so upset. I love it.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-22-2013, 02:24 PM
Lol, he's so upset. I love it.

Remove "upset" from that sentence and replace it with "right" and you're on to something.

You should know just as well as I that three years is way too early to judge two players, especially when Player A had a serious ACL tear in his rookie season and Player B has had one, and only one, highly productive year.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2013, 02:27 PM
Except that JPP is infinitely better than Brandon Graham, and has been all 3 years of their careers.

But it's ok. You win some you lose some. Hopefully you guys draft the right player this year to make up for it.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Except that JPP is infinitely better than Brandon Graham, and has been all 3 years of their careers.


How is this not a completely homer-tastic statement from a Giants fan?

You did watch 2010 and 2012 right? And you do understand that an ACL tear prevented Graham from competing in this contest in 2011 completely, right?

And for the record, I'm not even an Eagles fan. I'm a Raiders fan. My favorite player from the 2010 draft though was Graham, and I though Pierre Paul would be a bust. I still think that Pierre Paul could be seen as a "one year wonder" and Graham can be Defensive Player of the Year caliber player in the right system.

brat316
04-22-2013, 02:58 PM
Name Year Tackles Sacks

Graham 2010 13 3

JPP 2010 30 4.5

JPP 2011 86 16.5

Grahma 2011 ACL

Graham 2012 38 5.5

JPP 2012 66 6.5



Graham always seems to be injuried. He was healthy after 2 years off, and couldn't see action in all 16 games. He couldn't be out the guy in front of him. Babin who's only move was to run fast.

After starting full time in 6 games he was able to produce 4 sacks, most of them coming from CIN game and the other 1.5 from Dallas.

AcheTen (Thumper)
04-22-2013, 03:00 PM
Name Year Tackles Sacks

Graham 2010 13 3

JPP 2010 30 4.5

JPP 2011 86 16.5

Grahma 2011 ACL

Graham 2012 38 5.5

JPP 2012 66 6.5



Graham always seems to be injuried. He was healthy after 2 years off, and couldn't see action in all 16 games. He couldn't be out the guy in front of him. Babin who's only move was to run fast.

After starting full time in 6 games he was able to produce 4 sacks, most of them coming from CIN game and the other 1.5 from Dallas.

He had one major injury in 2010 that forced him to sit out in 2011.

Also, while the sack numbers are comparable, in less snaps, you really have to look at the pressure numbers (sacks+hits+hurries) to see the difference. Graham LAPS Pierre Paul per rush, and you can check Profootballfocus.com for more info.