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the_legend_killer
07-05-2010, 08:28 PM
Alcides has had the yips the last few days.

umphrey
07-06-2010, 12:03 PM
He can't have an OBP under 300 (currently .299) and be a liability in the field and play major league ball. This year is on the job training but we need to see improvement by next year.

GB12
07-06-2010, 05:12 PM
Gallardo has been placed on the DL, but it's Doug Davis, not Cain, that takes his spot.

the_legend_killer
07-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Alcides has had the yips the last few days.

The rest of the defense has had the yips the last few days. Poor Wolf, he had a damn good start going.

the_legend_killer
07-06-2010, 08:51 PM
Corey Hart's taking part in the All-Star Home Run Derby, now I'm dead set in the feeling we need to trade him.

princefielder28
07-07-2010, 07:15 PM
Narveson getting smoked

umphrey
07-07-2010, 07:17 PM
If the Giants were smart they wouldn't bother wasting a Linececum start today

PackerLegend
07-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Turn On

1-11 in the 4th

Turn Off

umphrey
07-08-2010, 02:04 PM
sell sell sell like you just got a fair cash offer for your house

the_legend_killer
07-08-2010, 02:34 PM
Holy Facepalm Batman.

princefielder28
07-08-2010, 02:36 PM
sell sell sell like you just got a fair cash offer for your house

bring in some pitching!!!!

PackerLegend
07-08-2010, 04:10 PM
Atleast when the Brewers are losing..... ughhh I mean winning next year and your attending the game you will get to watch it on a screen thats 4 times bigger then the current one and its 1080 HD. Its going to cost like 8 million or something and will be the 3rd biggest screen in baseball and 4th biggest with 1080 in all sports.

umphrey
07-08-2010, 07:31 PM
So we'll get a high first rounder and picks/prospects for Hart and Fielder...go Brewers 2015!

umphrey
07-09-2010, 08:40 AM
Trading players:

Ryan Braun, Yovani Gallardo
Impossible to trade. Even if we got offered Tim Linececum for Gallardo and Joe Mauer for Braun they have to turn it down. Can't pay those guys - not gonna get more per dollar out of anyone else. Braun/Gallardo are all around good baseball players, all stars with no majors flaws in their game. Can't imagine any prospect related trade worth while either.

Prince Fielder, Corey Hart, Jim Edmonds, Craig Counsell, Randy Wolf, Kottaras
Trade them and get what you can, otherwise take a draft pick when they sign somewhere else. Edmonds/Counsell might get a low grade prospect or something out of a team like the Giants. If anyone wants Wolf they can take him - I'm not that down on him but we don't need him. I actually believe in Hart to some degree, that he will continue playing well (not amazing) but his stock is high enough that we might get some good compensation.

Alcides Escobar, Gomez, the rest of the starting pitching
Keep them because their stock is at bottom so don't sell low.

Lucroy
Keep him because the best we could hope for is a prospect just like him.

Braddock, McGehee, Axford, Loe
Listen to offers. They could get traded but only if the buyer was buying a lot of potential. Probably not going to get a worthwhile offer, but if a team wants to give up a 5 star starting pitcher prospect in AA ball for Axford because they need a closer now, we should consider it. I don't know how old Loe is or what his contract is, but I'm thinking young-ish and cheap/short.

Rickie Weeks
I have no idea. Probably keep him because his bat has been pretty good and consistent and so has his OBP. He either goes in the Lucroy category or the Braddock/Axford category depending on contract and negotiations.

princefielder28
07-09-2010, 08:46 AM
Players who will not be moved...Weeks, Escobar, McGehee, Braun, Gomez, Lucroy, Gallardo, Wolf (nobody will trade for him), Braddock, Axford, Loe...i mention those guys at the end because they're pieces to build our bullpen with so it'd be dumb to let them go...I would be surprised to see Prince be dealt and I would consider Hart the most likely player to be moved

umphrey
07-09-2010, 08:55 AM
I agree with all. I went into a little more depth because it bugs me when people say a guy is un-tradable. You still listen to offers for everybody, except Braun and Gallardo for the reasons I posted above.

umphrey
07-09-2010, 07:40 PM
Braun looks pathetic. Most at bats he sees 3-4 pitches, none of which are strikes, doesn't even manage to make contact, and strikes out swinging at a pitch in the dirt. When is the last time he took a walk even?

princefielder28
07-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Braun looks pathetic. Most at bats he sees 3-4 pitches, none of which are strikes, doesn't even manage to make contact, and strikes out swinging at a pitch in the dirt. When is the last time he took a walk even?

He came through at the end but the fact still remains that he's in a big slump

umphrey
07-10-2010, 12:22 PM
JSOnline is calling this the end of his slump, but he's still up there hacking like a rookie at the plate. I want to see him consistently see the baseball better and start swinging at strikes and taking balls. The end of a slump usually starts with walks and then the hits will come when he forces pitchers to throw him strikes.

princefielder28
07-11-2010, 03:43 PM
I would have Casey bunt in this scenario

Boston
07-11-2010, 04:13 PM
Corey Hart is a pimp.

GB12
07-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Perfect impression to leave on GMs going into the all star break. Time to trade him off.

princefielder28
07-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Perfect impression to leave on GMs going into the all star break. Time to trade him off.

agree 100%

let's get ourselves some pitching!

umphrey
07-12-2010, 08:41 AM
It's probably the better move to trade him but I still feel like we'll be trading a good player. He's swinging at strikes, taking balls. Hitting for average, hitting for power. Consistent now that he's not whiffing at sliders anymore. Also an all around player with stealing speed, fielding, and good throwing arm.

It comes down to the fact that I think he's for real now and I might opt to take the risk and sign Corey long term than bring in prospects. We need pitching but we will need bats too when Prince leaves.

I am 50/50 on a Corey Hart trade it completely depends on the offer I guess.

umphrey
07-12-2010, 08:52 AM
2008 1st round pick 2B Brett Lawrie batting .295, 6HR, 24 SB and good slugging numbers as one of the youngest players in AA ball. Maybe sell Rickie instead. He has impressive power and a tantalizing OBP.

RyanBraun8
07-12-2010, 11:55 PM
The team should not feel pressed to trade Hart or Fielder, listen to the offers and if teams are trying to low ball, tell them to get bent. Two many times teams in the Brewers sitution fell like they have to "sell" and don't make the best possible trade.Hold out for the players you want and if you don't get them this season...o well, all that means is we still have one of the top offenses in the NL next season.

Pretty much I'd like to see a Mike Minor, Jeremy Hellickson type of pitcher for Hart. Someone who projects in a 2 or 3 spot in the rotation (neither are seen as true Ace type prospects). I personally think this is the real Corey Hart and not just some random fluke hot streak. I followed him very closely when he was coming up through the system and he was always just about the most productive player on his teams. .300 hitter, good minor league power stats, tons of extra base hits, drove in a bunch of runs, stole a bunch of bases and etc. Was an All-Star at every level and even won league MVP in AA. With his track record, current hot streak and 2 All-Star games in 3 years, I think there is a pretty good chance to net a quality pitcher like mentioned before.

It is also great to know that Rivas, Rogers, and Jeffress could all contribute at least sometime next year for our staff. i think Rivas has the best chance of making the team/ winning the 5th spot in the rotation of of camp with Rogers (depending on control) being able to to come in June or July. Jeffress also depending on command could contribute at some point. He will most likely be a September call up this year so we will see how that goes. (Since he was added to the 40 man mid season he will be losing an option from the season already so make sense.)

princefielder28
07-13-2010, 09:24 AM
I think we could get Mike Minor in a deal for Hart but not Hellickson. If we got someone from Tampa I would guess Wade Davis.

umphrey
07-13-2010, 03:32 PM
A few too many shots of Patron for Corey in between rounds yesterday

umphrey
07-15-2010, 08:44 AM
“When you win, you usually get a couple of surprises out of guys,” said Melvin. “We haven’t really had that. Nobody’s stepped up unexpectedly like Casey McGehee did last year.

Ken Macha, say hello to Corey Hart

RyanBraun8
07-15-2010, 09:12 AM
Kacha also says hello to Kameron Loe and John Axford

princefielder28
07-15-2010, 06:13 PM
Corey Hart being Corey Hart

Boston
07-15-2010, 06:45 PM
Hopefully Doug Melvin starts being Doug Melvin.

GB12
07-15-2010, 08:37 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by that. It depends on your opinion of Melvin I guess.

Boston
07-16-2010, 07:30 AM
I really hope we trade Hart before he regresses back to his career average.

umphrey
07-16-2010, 08:28 AM
I believe!
Trade Prince
Keep Hart
Keep Weeks
Pitching prospects pitching prospects pitching prospects

Depending on compensation of course and any outstanding offers we get

RyanBraun8
07-16-2010, 11:33 AM
Keep Fielder (against most peoples beliefs he is not as simply replaced by just throwing Gamel or McGehee over at first or hoping Hunter Morris develops fast and into a star player).

Hart- Trade , I like him but if he can save us from signing another crappy soft tossing FA and bring in a Davis, Minor, Bumgardner, cant say no.

Weeks- wait and see, it all depends on if the Brewers prefer him to Lawrie or if the want to move Lawrie off 2nd. He will be ready by midseason next year I am guessing so we will have to wait and see how it turns out

drowe
07-16-2010, 11:44 AM
My thoughts...

Trade Fielder-gotta come to terms with him NOT being a Brewer much longer. Scott Boras is only part of the problem. Whether Prince admits it or not, he's gone Hollywood. he's too big (in the figurative sense) for Milwaukee and too big to be sharing a spotlight with Ryan Braun. Even if the Brewers do pay the man, it still is gonna restrict us financially for years. it's not like power-hitting first baseman are hard to come by...well, players like Fielder are hard to find...but the drop off can't possibly warrent a contract 3 times what Braun is making.

Keep Hart and Weeks-keep as much of the core together as possible. Let Hart and Weeks be the silver lining to losing Prince.


BUT, if the Giants really want to deal for Fielder and it involves one of their stud pitchers and an additional piece...take it.

princefielder28
07-16-2010, 02:21 PM
Cain is up!!!!

drowe
07-16-2010, 02:45 PM
Cain is up!!!!

I saw that too. interesting news. and Davis to the DL as the corresponding move.

princefielder28
07-16-2010, 08:15 PM
Nice to see us kicking some ass tonight

RyanBraun8
07-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Wow Cain with just a rope but gosh darn Diaz made a b-e-a-utiful diving grab to rob Cain of his first major league hit.. come on who does that?! ha

RyanBraun8
07-16-2010, 10:06 PM
Braun-Fielder combo keeps the Brewers and elite NL offense

a Braun mixed and matched combo makes the Brewers a middle of the pack offense.....unless we keep Hart and he never comes down from where he is at right now, that will take us to an above average offense.

I think if Brewers can land a Howard deal for Prince they should get it done and if Boris pushes for a Texeria contract tell him to get bent... but you don't trade Prince until you know for sure it is a lost cause. And if we do trade him we better get some pretty phenominal pitchers to make up for the gapping whole that will be in the heart of our order.

Brewers really hurt themselves by not placing any real 1b prospects into the system until this draft (Hunter Morris).When the Brewers made the choice to trade LaPorta instead of Gamel in the C.C. deal for the sole purpose of Fielder being our future at 1b (Brewers already knew that LaPorta would not stick in the OF, as did every scout because he was just horrible out there) put us in a bad situation that we are in right now...no reliable or true replacement for Fielder. And no I will never suggest Gamel because I don't think that is the right move (3B or RF only) but there is a reason I am not in the front office for the Brewers ha.

princefielder28
07-20-2010, 06:28 PM
ouch, rough start!

princefielder28
07-20-2010, 08:17 PM
props to Dave Bush tonight for hanging tough and giving us four innings

cvv84
07-20-2010, 08:28 PM
Don't call it a comeback
I been here for years
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear
Makin the tears rain down like a MON soon
Listen to the bass go BOOM
Explosion overpowerin
Over the competition (if you count the Pirates as competition) I'm towerin

umphrey
07-21-2010, 09:23 AM
props to Dave Bush tonight for hanging tough and giving us four innings

My thought in the first inning was: leave him out there for 150+ pitches. Doesn't matter if his arm falls off, if he gets murdered like that by the Pirates he doesn't have an arm worth saving. Finishing at 4 IP 5 ER was impressive though, considering...

cvv84
07-21-2010, 09:11 PM
Deja vu... Wolfpan at it again.

princefielder28
07-21-2010, 09:16 PM
work the phones Doug, find us some good deals!!!

EvilMonkey
07-22-2010, 07:26 AM
work the phones Doug, find us some good deals!!!

yeah, I've been trying to hold out hope of making a run, but after this past week, I think it's obvious we have to be sellers and start working for next year...

umphrey
07-22-2010, 08:31 AM
I really hope we are looking for a new pitching coach. Two games, two starting pitchers, two catchers, both getting torched by a crap offensive team. Rick Peterson is an idiot. His "scouting report" was completely moronic during yesterdays game. He talked some gibberish about Wolf's rhythm and dancing to the wrong music. I don't think he knows anything about pitching mechanics, pitch selection, or prepping his pitchers for the hitters he's going to face. Instead he talks a bunch of psychological nonsense that gets the pitchers to think too much while getting no real help on mechanical flaws or how to approach hitters. Dale Sveum always has something interesting and intelligent to say - I think most days he knows the other teams pitcher better than Peterson knows his own.

Boston
07-22-2010, 11:12 AM
The Brewers are out of contention already because we don't have any pitching, that's not Rick Peterson's fault, at all.

princefielder28
07-22-2010, 12:06 PM
I think the struggles of our pitching staff obviously comes from the lack of talent and I do believe Rick Peterson is the right guy to be our pitching coach. One thing I think the past two years show is how effective Mike Maddux was as a pitching coach for us and Texas is getting to see that right now.

princefielder28
07-23-2010, 10:30 PM
Hart hurt (ouch), nice win (yay) and Narveson needs to not be starting

ATLDirtyBirds
07-23-2010, 10:45 PM
Rick is the man. Don't be foolish and let him go like us.

princefielder28
07-25-2010, 06:44 PM
a sweep of the nationals, alright!

big three game set with the reds starting tomorrow...will dictate how we view the trade deadline

umphrey
07-26-2010, 08:38 AM
So is this our chance to turn it around? Maybe 6th or 7th time I've made this post...

Sign Rickie asap regardless. He's good. He can bat anywhere 1-5 IMO. Prince is leaving and even if Hart doesn't get traded I still don't see him signing with us.

We might be able to go 1-Escobar 2-???? 3-Braun 4-Weeks 5-McGehee or we should at least be able to fill 4/5 bats at the top of the order. Hopefully McGehee doesn't want a lot of money because he isn't worth a big contract. I like him batting 5 right now and his fielding has been excellent but his stats are inflated for a number of reasons. He gets good pitches and RBIs batting behind Fielder and Braun. He got some numbers catching pitchers off guard before they had much of a scouting book on him.

princefielder28
07-26-2010, 08:54 AM
I like Jonathan Lucroy's potential as a future #2 hitter...he's got good patience at the plate, does a nice job hitting late in the count and runs the bases well, given he's a catcher.

badgerbacker
07-26-2010, 09:57 AM
Don't forget about Brett Lawrie as a long term answer for the 2-spot. He's been doing very well and is still only 20 years old. I know he's still atrocious in the field, but he's got good speed/a great bat and I could see him making the Ryan Braun transition to the outfield. (Maybe move Braun to right and have Lawrie play left?)

princefielder28
07-26-2010, 08:29 PM
Weeks has been so wonderful this year

Wolf has really settled down since the 2nd inning

the_legend_killer
07-26-2010, 09:34 PM
"Old Man River" Jim Edmonds comes thru again. Five games under .500.

princefielder28
07-26-2010, 09:44 PM
The next two games are huge...i believe that if they manage to win them then they'll look to add a starting pitcher in hopes of getting back into the race

Boston
07-26-2010, 10:33 PM
The next two games are huge...i believe that if they manage to win them then they'll look to add a starting pitcher in hopes of getting back into the race

We're 8 games behind in the division and 9 in the wild card with 7 teams to leap frog. I hate to sound like a downer, but we're not making the playoffs and definately shouldn't trade for a starting pitcher.

umphrey
07-27-2010, 09:04 AM
Yesterday was a key win because Wolf has been inconsistent and Bronson Arroyo is pretty good, seems to give us a lot of problems especially. Tonight we should be heavily favored to take the series with Gallardo well rested pitching against Volquez. According to stats Volquez had a very good 2008 but hasn't pitched more than 8 or so games a year since his rookie year in ~05. This is his third start of the year. We should take our winning streak to 6 games tonight. Tomorrow is less about the pitching matchup but a second sweep in a row is a realistic possibility at this point.

GB12
07-27-2010, 09:05 AM
I'll be so pissed if we buy. Let's be serious here, We are in no way a contender. We should still be doing everything possible to trade Corey Hart. If the right deal is on the table, Fielder too, but he can wait until the offseason. This is probably the highest Hart's stock value will ever be and we need to sell high for once.

princefielder28
07-27-2010, 09:22 AM
I'll be so pissed if we buy. Let's be serious here, We are in no way a contender. We should still be doing everything possible to trade Corey Hart. If the right deal is on the table, Fielder too, but he can wait until the offseason. This is probably the highest Hart's stock value will ever be and we need to sell high for once.

I agree that we shouldn't be buyers but that's just not the way that the new ownership wants to rolls; if there's any chance of a light at the end of the tunnel then go for it. I believe the best move for this team the rest of the season and moving forward into next season would be to move Corey Hart for pitching. Between Carlos Gomez, Joe Inglett, Jim Edmonds, and Lorenzo Cain we should have two guys capable of inserting into the lineup every night to replace him.

and Corey Hart needs to get in the lineup tonight or tomorrow otherwise there's no way a team deals for him before the deadline

princefielder28
07-28-2010, 12:59 PM
if/when Narveson gets his ass kicked again today i would love to see the team promote AA pitcher Amaury Rivas and give him a shot in the starting rotation...he's been solid the last four years in the minors and this year he's taken another step...certainly deserves a chance

princefielder28
07-31-2010, 01:24 PM
an uneventful day so far....i understand holding onto Hart and Fielder til the offseason but why not move Coffey???

princefielder28
07-31-2010, 10:34 PM
getting shutout back-to-back games by the re-building Astros is absolutely garbage and the team has no life....this is the type of scenario Melvin had discussed in the past that would be warranting Macha's dismissal

umphrey
08-01-2010, 02:18 PM
Hardest series to watch that I've ever...umm...kind of watched. Team wide hitting slump and pitchers look like they're throwing BP - until Wolf today but by now we are at the point where 6-8 shutout innings from a starter doesn't even matter because the offense is so pathetic.

princefielder28
08-01-2010, 04:00 PM
5 straight losses now...we go one turn through the rotation and come away with no wins whatsoever and manage to score 8 runs...two years ago Doug Melvin made a managerial change before heading to Chicago and that may be the appropriate move at this point too...i have not seen a Brewers team look this sluggish in quite some time and I'm so glad football is getting going because the next to months of baseball are going to be rough

umphrey
08-02-2010, 08:32 AM
Corey Hart Signs 3 Year Deal!!! (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100802&content_id=12927806&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
Financial terms unknown

Really excited about this. I'm a believer in Corey Hart these days. We have $20 mil coming off the books next year from money we are still paying Suppan and Bill Hall so we have the cash. We needed to lock up Weeks and Hart to keep some bats in the middle of the order to generate some offense when Prince leaves. Also, this will make him easier to trade if anything this winter if we decide to go that route.

I've been getting less and less disappointed that we didn't sell off our major leaguers. I want to strive for a team that is at least within a few games of .500 every year with maybe a shot at the playoffs. That way we keep revenue up and can keep paying guys to generate more revenue. I'm afraid of turning into the Pirates of the past decade who were constantly selling budding stars for prospects because they couldn't pay them. It's that downward spiral - you don't have any money because you don't have fans, you don't have fans because you don't have any good players, you don't have any good players because you don't have any money, and so on.

If you put together a team of former Pirates they would probably beat the current Pirates...

Update: Likely $25 M over 2011-2013 so ~$8.5 M per year. Worth it IMO considering he was in line to make $6-7 M next year anyway and he's been so crucial to our offense this year. Just look at the last series - his wrist was a mess yet he still generated the only offense we had in 3 games. In fairness that just goes to show how much we suck especially in pitcher friendly parks, but still...

drowe
08-02-2010, 11:56 AM
Corey Hart Signs 3 Year Deal!!! (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100802&content_id=12927806&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
Financial terms unknown

Really excited about this. I'm a believer in Corey Hart these days. We have $20 mil coming off the books next year from money we are still paying Suppan and Bill Hall so we have the cash. We needed to lock up Weeks and Hart to keep some bats in the middle of the order to generate some offense when Prince leaves. Also, this will make him easier to trade if anything this winter if we decide to go that route.

I've been getting less and less disappointed that we didn't sell off our major leaguers. I want to strive for a team that is at least within a few games of .500 every year with maybe a shot at the playoffs. That way we keep revenue up and can keep paying guys to generate more revenue. I'm afraid of turning into the Pirates of the past decade who were constantly selling budding stars for prospects because they couldn't pay them. It's that downward spiral - you don't have any money because you don't have fans, you don't have fans because you don't have any good players, you don't have any good players because you don't have any money, and so on.

If you put together a team of former Pirates they would probably beat the current Pirates...

Update: Likely $25 M over 2011-2013 so ~$8.5 M per year. Worth it IMO considering he was in line to make $6-7 M next year anyway and he's been so crucial to our offense this year. Just look at the last series - his wrist was a mess yet he still generated the only offense we had in 3 games. In fairness that just goes to show how much we suck especially in pitcher friendly parks, but still...

yes. awesome news. i've been a Hart fan for a long long time. really happy he's in it for the long haul.

GB12
08-02-2010, 02:53 PM
I definitely wanted to trade Hart while he was hot, but I"m perfectly fine with this deal. 3 years is perfect and the money isn't bad at all.

$1 million signing bonus.

$6.5 million salary in 2011.

$9 million salary in 2012.

$10 million salary in 2013.

If he keeps playing like he is now it'll be a great deal. If he goes for his 162 game average it'll still be quite good. And if he regresses to how poor he was last year it'll be bad, but not absolutely terrible. Good job by the front office.

And it's not like we couldn't trade him still if we get the right offer. In fact he could even be more attractive now that the new club would know how much they have to pay him. This way we can see what we can get, but have no problems hanging on to him if we don't like the return.

GB12
08-02-2010, 09:20 PM
I feel like there should be some comment on tonight's game. Gallardo is owning and our offense is kicking ass. Having our pitching and offense hot during the same game doesn't happen often, you should be enjoying it.

umphrey
08-03-2010, 08:26 AM
That was a pretty awesome game. Hart-Braun-Fielder hitting 2-3-4 went 14/21 hits, pretty ridiculous and awesome it came against the Cubs. Nice bright spot in a dismal season. Even when we're out of contention it's still lots of fun beating up on the Cubs in their own stadium and hearing the boos.

I can't believe we scored 18 runs with only 1 HR. Why couldn't we do this in Houston? I thought our offense died because of the big park.

Brewers statistics are going to be completely out of whack and mostly useless this season. So many shut outs and blow ups from hitters and pitchers and collectively as a team.

princefielder28
08-03-2010, 09:27 AM
last night was great to watch and a big relief after this past weekend

GB12
08-04-2010, 02:32 PM
This series is doing wonders for saving Braun's average. Before he fell all the way down to .275, and after two games he's back to .286. 6 more games against the Cubs and he'll be back where he should be.

princefielder28
08-04-2010, 03:16 PM
ouch! bring in coffey to face aramis and he hits one deep

GB12
08-06-2010, 05:42 PM
Gomez to the DL, Cain up and starting tonight.

princefielder28
08-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Trevor moved one step closer to 600

tomorrow we go for the sweep

princefielder28
08-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Jim Edmonds has been traded to the Reds for OF Chris Dickerson

sorry to see him go

princefielder28
08-09-2010, 07:15 PM
and a typical Narveson start :(

umphrey
08-10-2010, 12:14 PM
I'm very irritated that Hoffman closed that game.

-Don't mess with your rookie closer! Axford has been awesome. Let him focus on pitching. Give him the work. Don't make him wonder who's going to be closing. Don't make him feel guilty for impeding Hoffman's quest to 600.
-Hoffman earned 596 saves - make him earn the last 4. 600 feels tainted when you're getting handed saves on a losing team after the trade deadline.
-Axford shouldn't be demoted just so Hoffman can reach a number.
-Let Axford start his own legacy - after all he might break the rookie saves record if his manager stops pulling the rug out from underneath him.
-I don't care that we're losing and wins don't really matter. Axford deserves it, Hoffman doesn't!

the_legend_killer
08-11-2010, 11:41 PM
lol. Oh, this team.

GB12
08-13-2010, 11:02 PM
Got to feel bad for Yovani. God damn it Macha.

umphrey
08-15-2010, 03:39 PM
3 runs on Ubaldo Jimenez and his 17-3 record with Ryan Braun and Rickie Weeks going a combined 6/6 so far

princefielder28
08-15-2010, 04:26 PM
3 runs on Ubaldo Jimenez and his 17-3 record with Ryan Braun and Rickie Weeks going a combined 6/6 so far

Ubaldo has been much more human since the start of June so I'm not too surprised that we've had some success against him...with Parra starting today, we didn't stand much of a chance to win

umphrey
08-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Rickie Weeks up to bat with the chance to hit a 3 run HR to give us the 6-5 lead and the cycle...it would be so perfect

umphrey
08-15-2010, 05:01 PM
And.....he gets hit for the thousandth time

GB12
08-15-2010, 05:06 PM
Wow. Talk about a lucky break

umphrey
08-15-2010, 05:07 PM
Wow this game is getting interesting. Ubaldo got absolutely robbed of win #18.

the_legend_killer
08-15-2010, 05:07 PM
Right off the bat you could tell from Barmes' reaction the ball was swirling. That's why you always run those pop-up's out, never know what could happen.

Boston
08-15-2010, 06:29 PM
Didn't we already go through this Hoffman disaster earlier in the year?

GB12
08-15-2010, 07:27 PM
We had no business even getting to the bottom of the ninth so I'm not too upset today

EvilMonkey
08-16-2010, 08:59 PM
Covey doesnt sign
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/100814479.html

draft next year is pretty stacked so hopefully the replacement pick we get turns into a better player

umphrey
08-17-2010, 08:35 AM
I'm pissed we missed out on Covey. High schooler with a mid 90s fast ball and plus curve ball had major leaguer written all over him. He was a good prospect that came and went so fast.

princefielder28
08-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Casey goes deep!!!!

umphrey
08-21-2010, 01:31 PM
It was a really fun game to watch yesterday if you missed it. Some young guys and some old guys produced, mainly Capuano and Lucroy. My favorite was when Lucroy took a really good pitch very low and inside and knocked it out to left field to give us the lead 7-6 with a man on. Lucroy is one of my favorite players to watch. He has natural baseball instincts that rival Craig Counsell. I'm talking about having a good swing and a good eye, fielding his position like a natural, good athlete, smart baserunning, and plays with a competitive edge I only see in Braun and Fielder.

rAtRjHnP58U

J-Mike88
08-27-2010, 04:27 PM
I guess the season pretty much ended awhile ago for the Brew Crew, but there's this today from off the diamond:

MILWAUKEE - Brewers pitcher Yovani Gallardo and a clubhouse attendant were robbed at gunpoint early Friday, hours after the Milwaukee ace pitched in a loss to the Dodgers.


Brewers spokesman Tyler Barnes confirmed that Gallardo and Alex Sanchez were robbed, but both were doing fine and did not want to discuss the incident.
According to WTMJ-AM, an armed black man approached the two in a supermarket parking lot demanding money and jewelry and that Sanchez was hit in the head, but not seriously injured.

Milwaukee police were investigating and spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said a suspect remains at large. Schwartz confirmed that two men were robbed at an address that corresponds with a grocery store, but wouldn't identify the men.

She said the suspect struck one victim with a gun and fled.

Gallardo signed a $30.1 million, five-year contract extension earlier this year. He's 11-6 with a 3.50 ERA in 25 starts and was chosen to his first All-Star game this season.

He's struggled recently, losing 7-1 to Los Angeles on Thursday. It was the fourth straight start in which Gallardo has allowed at least four runs.

princefielder28
08-27-2010, 09:14 PM
Alcides had one of the best plays of the year earlier in this game...watch the highlights!

umphrey
08-28-2010, 10:58 AM
He was #1 on ESPNs top plays today

princefielder28
08-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Randy Wolf just stole a base...wow!

umphrey
08-30-2010, 08:23 PM
Lorenzo Cain is such a fking pimp...please don't be hurt. Talk about sacrificing your body for a play. He looked like a receiver leaving his feet and getting drilled on a catch going across the middle. Except instead of running into a wall type hit he literally ran into a wall. Top 3 ESPN play tomorrow.

princefielder28
09-08-2010, 11:02 AM
last night's game and trevor's accomplishment was great to watch...600 saves is a huge number

drowe
09-08-2010, 11:55 AM
yay! the fake milestone that was forced down our throats all season finally happened!

GB12
09-08-2010, 02:35 PM
yay! the fake milestone that was forced down our throats all season finally happened!

Seriously. There is nothing significant about 600 saves. Nothing. Yeah he's the only one to do it, but he was already the all time saves leader.

umphrey
09-08-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah I kind of hated hearing about it for so long. Especially when Axford was (still is) pitching great, all anyone talks about is Hoffman's 600. Worst yet no one seemed to care about how terrible he was to start the season and what might have happened if he hadn't blown so many saves. Furthermore, Axford is a great option for the future so lets put him to the test and get him some experience. Finally, it doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment since he only saved maybe 50 games in Milwaukee after he was somewhat washed up.

umphrey
09-08-2010, 03:55 PM
I feel like I'm saying this every year but next year we have a good chance to make a wildcard. This year we had some bad luck and bad timing of things but lately we've been consistently playing good, consistent ball all around the diamond and it's not just against the Pirates we've been doing it against the Cardinals too.

Projected roster:
1. Yovani Gallardo - He's struggled lately but I think he's been worn down playing with some minor injuries. True ace most days, but every ace gets lit up a few times a season.
2. Randy Wolf - He gets a lot of hate for some bad outings starting the year but he's been going 6-7 innings with 2 ERs a lot lately, good for a #2.
3. Dave Bush - I don't know. Sometimes he looks like an ace, sometimes he's terrible. If he can keep his emotions out of it he should be a good pitcher.
4. Chris Narveson - This was kind of his rookie year, he improved steadily I thought though even though he'll have a high ERA.
5. Chris Capuano - Does really well for like 4-5 innings. As a #5 maybe we can pull him then, wear out our bullpen a bit and hope Yo goes deep the next day.
Doug Davis - I think he sucks but there's a chance his body wasn't healthy and he was distracted so maybe he can take a spot in the rotation.

A major point here is that $20 mil comes off the books, $8 from Bill Hall and $12 from Suppan, so we can definately sign someone or trade for a guy without worrying about his contract much. It depends on how much Weeks wants though and if we can/will sign him. Prince takes about $15 off but Hart and Gallardo are making a little more than that combined I think.

Our bullpen is starting to get pretty awesome especially now that we have all these written off prospects coming up.

Axford: ++closer
Loe: +++long/mid relief man
Braddock: +++lefties, +short relief, needs to work on throwing strikes
Coffey: +short reliever, ground ball pitcher that does well with inherited runners
Hawkins: ++short relief if he's healthy, so like 80 games maybe
Parra: +long reliever, use him when our starter needs 50 pitches to get through 2 innings
Villenueva: ++1-2 inning guy, I like that he has 4 pitches and he uses them all

Guys fighting for a spot:
Jeffress: very good pitcher that throws FAST, I think he'll do very well people just assumed he was dead after his suspension
Mark Rogers: same, replace suspension with injury
Estrada: showed some potential and was able to get major leaguers out
McClendon: same
Scarpetta: top prospect, WILL be good, is he ready though?
Hoffman: hope we don't sign him but we probably will...

It's pretty awesome how many pitchers we have that can bring the heat, middle to high 90s. We've always used pitchers that top out at high 80s because we couldn't develop any young arms with velocity and power pitchers are about as easy to acquire as power hitters.

Our offense 1-5 is as good as anyone in the league. Lucroy, Escobar and Cain all finishing out their rookie year, all proved they can play, all look like they are going to be good players, should make an excellent 6-7-8. Lucroy is awesome. He's one of my favorite players.


Offense should be a big plus, relief pitching should be a big plus, starting pitching we have to overcome but we will probably get better play there than last year, maybe we'll add someone, and if we do well we can get someone at the trade deadline to solidify the rotation and give us a pretty good 1-2-3 for the playoffs.

princefielder28
09-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Capuano with another real nice start...working his way towards a spot in the rotation for next year

gpngc
09-11-2010, 10:51 PM
I hate to ask a fantasy baseball question... but can I start Axford with confidence this week? Is there a chance they try to make it look like they weren't putting Hoffman in there for 600 to sell tickets and give him a chance at 601, 602, 603, etc. randomly here down the stretch? + rep for answer...

princefielder28
09-12-2010, 07:11 AM
I hate to ask a fantasy baseball question... but can I start Axford with confidence this week? Is there a chance they try to make it look like they weren't putting Hoffman in there for 600 to sell tickets and give him a chance at 601, 602, 603, etc. randomly here down the stretch? + rep for answer...

what other options do you have??? if the team gets to a save opportunity I feel Axford will get a shot but that seems like a big if right now

umphrey
09-12-2010, 01:58 PM
This series is SO BORING they should start prescribing it instead of sleeping pills. I thought this would be the best series out of the last 6 weeks or so but wow it's been terrible. The Cubs suck horribly and they are trying to lose but we still can't win. The announcers are saying the same lines over and over. They tried to call yesterdays 1-0 loss a "great pitchers duel" but it was really just a good pitcher (Dempster) throwing at a totally unprepared offense that was guessing against an above average pitcher (Wolf) throwing at guys who cashed in and are just pretending to play baseball until next year.

princefielder28
09-20-2010, 09:39 AM
Mark Rogers will be making his first career major league start on Friday against the Marlins

umphrey
09-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Mark Rogers will be making his first career major league start on Friday against the Marlins

Starting candidate for next year maybe? I've never seen him pitch. I know he has velocity, is he just a 2, 2 and a half pitch guy or does he have 3-4 plus pitches?

We need a 3 in the rotation for next year. Gallardo and Wolf work as 1 and 2 and past that I don't think anybody deserves a spot unless they breakout/comeback big time. Capuano maybe, if he can keep his velocity up and last 100 pitches (ish) every 5th day. Ideally we'll sign someone and Bush will have a comeback year because he has some ability.

princefielder28
09-20-2010, 11:38 AM
I think Rogers is definitely a candidate for next year

Gallardo is 1 and Wolf is 2 like you mentioned...Capuano has probably earned himself a chance heading into next year and if Rogers stays healthy he's probably another...I'd like to see Bush back b/c he's a gamer and dependable if someone like Capuano or Rogers goes down...I'd like to see Narveson back too because he can be an effective spot starter...and remember Fielder is more than likely being moved and I'd like to think we'll get a starter out of him...what we need heading into Spring Training is a quantity of quality pitchers and have them battle it out for 2011

princefielder28
09-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Randy Wolf is finally pitching like we thought he would/should...over his last ten starts his ERA has fallen almost .7 of a run and he's currently 14th in the NL with 13 wins and 11th in IP with 201.2

umphrey
09-27-2010, 02:59 PM
If it's true that we could have gotten Daniel Hudson for Fielder then our general manager needs to stop smoking crack

princefielder28
09-27-2010, 08:15 PM
If it's true that we could have gotten Daniel Hudson for Fielder then our general manager needs to stop smoking crack

Hudson wasn't performing that well this year before the trade and seemed more like a 4th/5th starter than a #1...guarantee Arizona wasn't even expecting this much

cvv84
09-30-2010, 10:19 PM
Casey McGehee and Corey Hart join Ryan Braun in driving in 100 runs this year. Its the 1st time 3 Brewers have accomplished the feat since 1982.

princefielder28
10-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Last game of the year today...not the year we were expecting but we did finish third in the division; for whatever that's worth

cvv84
10-03-2010, 09:49 AM
Last game of the year today...not the year we were expecting but we did finish third in the division; for whatever that's worth

We also got a good look at some guys who could be our future in Lucroy, Cain, Jeffress, and Rogers. Hopefully Ax can continue his success as well next year in whats been a much improved bullpen.

umphrey
10-03-2010, 01:30 PM
A couple smart offseason moves and we'll have a playoff team in 2011. What we do with Prince will make or break our season. If we just keep him then at least we have the best 1-5 in baseball, or at least the NL. I hope we trade him for a pitcher and resign Weeks.

princefielder28
10-03-2010, 06:59 PM
Ken Macha is done!

umphrey
10-03-2010, 11:20 PM
No surprise, good move

princefielder28
10-06-2010, 10:30 AM
Bob Brenly is the next manager

Boston
10-06-2010, 11:57 AM
Bob Brenly is the next manager

http://blog.submityourquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/rainn-wilson-as-dwight-schrute.jpg

GB12
10-06-2010, 02:57 PM
Bob Brenly is the next manager

No he's not.


Thank god. That would have been horrible.

princefielder28
10-06-2010, 07:11 PM
No he's not.


Thank god. That would have been horrible.

yeah, thank god the report was false

umphrey
10-12-2010, 08:32 PM
OK, this is what I've been thinking today, tell me if you think I'm crazy.

1) Keep Prince Fielder for the year
2) Sign a top tier centerfielder e.g. Carl Crawford
3) Trade for a top pitcher. Put guys on the table like Lorenzo Cain, Mat Gamel, Alcides Escobar or Luis Cruz, Carlos Gomez, Angel Salome, etc.
4) Try to get a second pitcher, middle/low tier guy with upside, through free agency or trade
5) Platoon Escobar or Cruz at short stop
6) Keep Inglett as a pinch hitter and Dickerson as a 4th outfielder

Here's why it will work:
-We would upgrade our entire starting roster instead of downgrading it or moving lateral trading Prince
-Every playoff team (with very few exceptions) have 3 high quality starting pitchers and that's what we would have
-We would have possibly the best hitting team in baseball on paper. Without question the best outfield. An excellent infield with Counsell against RHP and Escobar/Cruz against LHP we can scrap together production out of SS and Lucroy is a good hitter and was a top defensive catcher last year.
-It will be a lot easier and we will have more options getting a pitcher with great prospects who even have major league experience offering those guys. What team will give away a starting pitcher for a 1 year rental at 1B? It would have to be a team prepping for a playoff push and they aren't going to give up a starting pitcher.
-We have $20 mil coming off the books from Suppan and Hall (Finally!!!) and a little from Zaun and maybe Riske. We spent some on Hart but we get another financial break next year when Fielder leaves and depending on what we do with Weeks.
-We still get a supplemental pick out of Fielder. Yeah, I know that's not worth much in baseball, but I don't know if there will be a deal out there that's a significant upgrade, especially factoring in the year of baseball we would lose out of him and the ticket sales we would lose that has (an admittedly minor) affect on signing free agents.
-I'm willing to sell some of the farm for this year. That's kind of what we did in 2008 and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
-With Weeks and Fielder in contract years and pieces like Braun, Hart, Gallardo, McGehee to go with them, this opportunity might not come along for a very, very long time.

princefielder28
10-12-2010, 09:11 PM
your plan is dead at #2...no way crawford would ever come to Milwaukee, no way Milwaukee would even pursue him, and we can't afford a free agent of his price

umphrey
10-12-2010, 11:15 PM
Yeah, I guess that would be a problem, and there aren't many free agent center fielders besides him. If we could do it, I would do it. There are some decent starting pitchers out there at least:

Starting Pitchers
David Bush MIL
Chris Capuano MIL
Doug Davis MIL
Jorge De La Rosa COL
Justin Duchscherer OAK
Hiroki Kuroda LAD
Cliff Lee TEX
Ted Lilly LAD
Noah Lowry SF
Carl Pavano MIN
Brad Penny STL
Andy Pettitte NYY
Ben Sheets OAK
Hisanori Takahashi NYM
Javier Vazquez NYY
Brandon Webb ARI


Maybe we can get Brad Penny or Ted Lilly. Cliff Lee would be amazing of course.

umphrey
10-14-2010, 01:50 PM
Would you trade Lorenzo Cain, Escobar, Gamel, or any other top prospect for a pitcher short term e.g. the Sabbathia deal? I'd have to give it some serious consideration.

princefielder28
10-14-2010, 02:27 PM
Would you trade Lorenzo Cain, Escobar, Gamel, or any other top prospect for a pitcher short term e.g. the Sabbathia deal? I'd have to give it some serious consideration.

I'd move Gamel but not Cain or Escobar

Bobby V is on the managerial radar

GB12
10-14-2010, 03:14 PM
We're not contenders this year no matter what we do, so no.

umphrey
10-14-2010, 04:28 PM
It's hard to think of an NL roster with a better offense besides Philly if we play to our potential. Like, for example, score 5 runs in 4 games instead of 20 runs in 1 game and 0 runs in the next 3.

RE: Prince Fielder, maybe it's separation anger but I don't think he's going to have the career most people assume. He's short and stocky, never going to be a good defensive fielder. At the plate, he has one approach: swing as hard as you can and try to hit a fast ball HR to right center. He can't hit the ball to the opposite field, at all, and the defensive shift drops his average significantly. His numbers have steadily declined since his rookie year because it's so cut and dry how to minimize his impact. When he leaves the hitter friendly NL Central for a competitive AL division without teams like the Pirates or the Cubs (this year), I don't see him as anything close to producing $20M/year numbers.

cvv84
10-16-2010, 05:59 PM
I'd move Gamel but not Cain or Escobar

Yeah same here. Cain showed alot of promise and could be our CF of the future. Escobar, while a little disapointing, is still young and playing in his 1st full season. We all knew his offense needed work and he showed flashes of that defensive capibility. Way too early to give up on him.



In all honestly I think we're going to be a mediocre team for a few more years. We aren't going to get a top pitching prospect for Prince and we aren't going to go out and sign a top, let alone a middle tier pitcher. We're going to need a guy from Jeffress, Rogers, or Braddock to emerge as a #3 pitcher and the likeihood of that is slim considering all 3 have had their innings limited for one reason or another.

We're going to have to get what we can for Prince and hopefully sign Weeks long term to at least stabilize our offense. I just hope whoever is the next manager can play some small ball and use the speed thats on this roster.

umphrey
10-16-2010, 06:26 PM
I wasn't commenting on their abilities (or lack there of) but questioning whether it was worth it to sell a piece of the future for next year which could be the last small window for this team to make the playoffs for a long time with this pretty good offense intact. Like you said, we are probably going to be a mediocre team for the next few years, so personally yes I would use those prospects to get a short term pitcher. After next year, well, it's hard to predict but yeah it looks like mediocrity. It would be worth it, IMO.

umphrey
10-19-2010, 11:06 AM
so we're going to sign Cliff Lee, right?

senormysterioso
10-19-2010, 11:20 AM
so we're going to sign Cliff Lee, right?

It depends...are "we" the Yankees?

umphrey
10-19-2010, 11:39 AM
That's true, they don't have enough good lefty horses to ride to the playoffs, oh wait...

http://media.cleveland.com/livingston_impact/photo/sabathia-vstribe-yanksjpg-acdb884309d914bd_large.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/05/06/alg_yankees_andy_pettitte.jpg

cvv84
10-23-2010, 07:40 PM
FOXSports.com is reporting that Bob Melvin and Joey Cora are two of the four finalists to take over as the Brewers' next manager.



Personally I'd rather go with Cora seeing that Listach is out of the running.

senormysterioso
10-23-2010, 08:00 PM
That's true, they don't have enough good lefty horses to ride to the playoffs, oh wait...


You know it's gonna happen. They've tried to trade for him at least twice that we know of. The Yankees always get their man.

umphrey
11-01-2010, 06:50 PM
The four candidates, as we all know by now, are ESPN analyst Bobby Valentine, Mets scout Bob Melvin, Chicago White Sox bench coach Joey Cora and Los Angeles Angels bench coach Ron Roenicke.

Reports have surfaced that Valentine is the favorite to get the job, and it is my understanding that general manager Doug Melvin is a backer of his. Of the four finalists, Valentine would take the most financial negotiating because he is making a big salary at ESPN.
Valentine would be a solid hire IMO. I don't think we need an elite strategist or anything like that. With Sveum and Peterson staying on as hitting and pitching coaches I guess we don't need a mentor or teacher coach. Our biggest problem last year was psyching ourselves out of games and showing up flat in games we should have won. We should hire whoever we think can inspire confidence and get our team mentally prepared to get more consistency.

cvv84
11-01-2010, 08:53 PM
We should hire whoever can utilize the talent on this team. AKA not another AL-minded manager like Macha.

princefielder28
11-02-2010, 02:16 PM
Ron Roenicke is the guy

GB12
11-02-2010, 02:26 PM
I'm fine with that.

umphrey
11-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Well all I know about him is the article I read today but it makes him sound like just the kind of guy I wanted

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/106552243.html

Also Doug Davis, Dave Bush, Chris Capuano, and others all hitting the road for now at least. The good news is that means we are sure to bring in other pitches. The bad news is we can't sign anyone good and there are pretty limited choices unless we make a trade, and I don't see us getting much for a 1 year rental of Prince.

GB12
11-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Randolph gone, Seder gone, Sveum stays, Peterson undetermined yet.

cvv84
11-11-2010, 06:12 PM
Braun and Gallardo named 2010 Silver Sluggers.



On another note, anyone catch Peter Gammons little report that the Red Sox would be interested in Braun in he was made available this offseason? Yeah lets trade our best overall offensive player who's under control through 2015 at a very reasonable price... So no Fielder and no Braun? No way Gammons...

Randolph gone, Seder gone, Sveum stays, Peterson undetermined yet.

An Astros newspaper just announced that Seder will return to the Brewers but they don't know in what capacity.

cvv84
11-15-2010, 04:46 PM
Rick Peterson is out as pitching coach.

Rick Kranitz hired as new pitching coach and Jerry Narron was hired as a bench coach.

umphrey
11-15-2010, 04:57 PM
I wanted Peterson for another year, just to see if he had a multiple year plan that would have worked in time. I'll survive though since our pitching was and has been the losing unit of the team.

Hines
11-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Is Rick Peterson a good pitching coach? I heard the Pirates could be interested in him when they field their staff.

umphrey
11-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Is Rick Peterson a good pitching coach? I heard the Pirates could be interested in him when they field their staff.

I'd give him like a C or a C+ grade for his first and only year in Milwaukee. Supposedly he uses a system that has something to do with biomechanics or some high tech thing like that but it didn't show much. I'd say Randy Wolf and Chris Narveson and Chris Capuano all improved, but I'm not sure if Peterson deserves much credit because the pitching staff as a whole was pretty terrible. However I would have liked to give him more time because guys like Kameron Loe and John Axford and the 3 I mentioned earlier either came out from obscurity or declining careers and pitched well.

princefielder28
11-16-2010, 02:24 PM
Is Rick Peterson a good pitching coach? I heard the Pirates could be interested in him when they field their staff.

Peterson is considered one of the best in the business and it'd be unfair to him to be overly critical of how of pitchers performed because bad habits take time to overcome.

umphrey
11-17-2010, 04:56 PM
What is Rickie Weeks' trade value? What about his contract value? I feel like this would be a huge topic of debate if not for Prince being in the exact same situation. In an ideal world I'd trade him for pitching and/or a 2nd baseman prospect and get a more traditional lead off hitter who can hit in the high 200s and steal 30 bases every year (ideal world). If the offer isn't there we can still sign him and our team gets better. Maybe we can get out speed out of SS and CF and bat Rickie in the middle of the order where he belongs.

cvv84
11-17-2010, 05:38 PM
I'd rather sign Weeks long term. He also is a guy who can steal bases as he stole 25 in only 118 games back in 2007. Macha was affraid to run and hopefully that will change now with Roenicke.

Weeks, Escobar, Hart, and Braun should be more active on the baes on this year.

EvilMonkey
11-29-2010, 07:53 PM
bored and just thinking Prince trade scenarios through my head.

I know Ellsbury has fallen out of favor in Boston and is potentially on the block this winter according to rumors. With Beltre leaving, I think it could make sense to send Fielder to Boston to play 1st (and eventually DH when Papi is gone) and put Youk at 3rd. My dream scenario would be Buchholz and Ellsbury for Prince but I would take Ellsbury and one of their pitching prospects (Casey Kelly or Ranuado maybe).

Anyone think this might be feasable or am I way overvaluing Prince?

GB12
12-03-2010, 02:59 PM
Carlos Villanueva traded to Toronto for a player to be named later.

cvv84
12-04-2010, 10:23 AM
Reports are that the Red Sox just traded for Adrian Gonzolez. The Padres got their top prospect plus another good prospect. Might be a good time to try to unload Prince.

umphrey
12-04-2010, 11:42 AM
It might be worth it to hold on to Prince. If we could get some damn pitching we'd be in the playoffs. My point though is that Prince's value is in the crapper right now since he's strictly a rental with Boras as his agent and he's not even a good defensive player. Hell he hasn't even been hitting at an elite level IMO - he's just been getting walked at an elite level. He has that inherent flaw of never hitting to the opposite field so unless the pitcher makes a mistake and he crushes it he has a really tough time getting on base. He can't go outside the zone or at the corners, he has to wait for a mistake. I'm saying he's good (this is what most hitters do) but he isn't elite or a must-have player.

If I were GM right now, I would be looking for a really good offer. If it didn't come, which is what I would be expecting, I would be laying the ground work for a mid season trade. If we are on the bubble, we buy and look for playoffs. If not, we sell Prince to someone else who is on the bubble. I'd say the offer then is going to be about the same since a team vying for a playoff spot around the deadline can get Prince and feel confident he'll take them into the post season. Right now everyone is 0-0 so making a trade is riskier.

Then there's always draft compensation if we keep him. It would probably be a worst case scenario but at least the team gets revenue from fans who want to see Prince's last go around Milwaukee and it probably means we have a winning team if we didn't sell him at the deadline.

Everyone says Milwaukee loses no matter what they do. Those people have their expectations too high. We win something no matter what we do. Once people get it into their heads that Prince will not be a Brewer in 1 year no matter what, the bargaining chip we have and the consolation prize we get will be something worth while, and we have a ton of options.

princefielder28
12-04-2010, 04:49 PM
Reports are that the Red Sox just traded for Adrian Gonzolez. The Padres got their top prospect plus another good prospect. Might be a good time to try to unload Prince.

Adrian is also a more desired player so if we do unload Prince we probably can't expect a better package

cvv84
12-04-2010, 05:14 PM
Adrian is also a more desired player so if we do unload Prince we probably can't expect a better package

Thats exactally my point. We aren't going to get major league ready pitching. The Padres settled for prospects and so are we. The iron is hot so hopefully we can take advantage of teams trying to keep up with one another and get something descent in return.

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 08:25 PM
It's reported that the Brewers have traded for Shaun Marcum...awesome! he's probably our #2 starter right now

cvv84
12-05-2010, 08:30 PM
Good pickup. He's under control for another 2 years too. I'm curious as to who are the pitching prospects that we traded though.

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 08:32 PM
Good pickup. He's under control for another 2 years too. I'm curious as to who are the pitching prospects that we traded though.

As long as Odorizzi isn't involved then I'm fine with whatever we gave up in terms of pitching

cvv84
12-05-2010, 08:34 PM
As long as Odorizzi isn't involved then I'm fine with whatever we gave up in terms of pitching

Thats where Melvin scares me :\

senormysterioso
12-05-2010, 08:35 PM
Braun for Greinke?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/04/2497673/speculation-on-greinke-deals-should.html

cvv84
12-05-2010, 08:37 PM
Rumors are that Brett Lawrie could be involved in the trade....

Braun for Greinke?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/04/2497673/speculation-on-greinke-deals-should.html

I saw that this morning. No chance in hell. We trade Braun, then Fielder walks/is traded? Braun is the Geoff Jenkins of this team.

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Braun for Greinke?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/04/2497673/speculation-on-greinke-deals-should.html

I'd love to have Greinke but I think Braun is the only bat on this team that is absolutely un-tradeable

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 08:45 PM
Rumors are that Brett Lawrie could be involved in the trade....





If Lawrie is part of the deal, I will be so mad...i'd rather give Lawrie a chance in the big leagues and trade Weeks away for pitching

cvv84
12-05-2010, 08:50 PM
If we're trading these guys to Toronto so they can use them to get Greinke then why doesn't Melvin just pony up and go after Greinke.

Sounds like Lawrie is indeed involved so hopefully that means Weeks is going to be locked up at least.

If Lawrie is part of the deal, I will be so mad...i'd rather give Lawrie a chance in the big leagues and trade Weeks away for pitching

It makes no sense to deal Lawrie right now. Let Weeks prove he can stay healthy before signing him. Melvin, Melvin, Melvin... always looking at the short term. Nelson Cruz? Jorge DeLaRosa? Dana Eveland? Give these guys a chance.

badgerbacker
12-05-2010, 08:52 PM
Crap. Lawrie is going to be a stud, at least offensively. I hope he isn't actually involved.

cvv84
12-05-2010, 08:56 PM
A source told FOXSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi that top prospect Brett Lawrie is in the Shaum Marcum deal with the Blue Jays.




I knew they shoulda dumped Melvin with Macha.

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 08:56 PM
I don't see the Jays sending Lawrie to KC in a deal...he'd be too big of a draw, if he pans out, to trade away, especially if they covet him so much...

princefielder28
12-05-2010, 09:10 PM
And with Adrian Gonzalez dealt to the Red Sox, Melvin has left himself in an even tougher spot because that equates to one less team in need of a slugging 1B and any deal with Prince will be measured off of that one...

GB12
12-05-2010, 09:16 PM
I don't get this. Trading for Marcum makes no sense when we're trying to unload Fielder. Marcum is only under control for two more years. Make a decision to go for it or build for the future, but trying to do both is how you end up screwed for a long time.

If we were closer to making a run I'd be fine with this trade, but giving up Lawrie for 2 years of Marcum when we're not in contention is dumb.

the_legend_killer
12-05-2010, 10:50 PM
But now the scope of what Melvin wants for Fielder could change. It could shift from "We need major league starters" to "We'd like prospects" because the rotation just got a little better and he could look at the #4 spot as someone he doesn't have to pay for, just from one of the reclamation projects (Webb/Penny/etc.)

Maybe this is a precursor to a Weeks extension. If Melvin thinks he's close there, then he'd have his 2nd baseman locked up long term, then he knew he could flip Lawrie for a solid starting pitcher.

Also, was it for sure that Lawrie was going to play second? He could rake, no doubt, but wasn't he a butcher in the field? At least it's to the AL where we dont' have to worry about his revenge coming at us.

Chucky
12-05-2010, 10:54 PM
You guys are getting a stud in Marcum. May not have the best stuff out there but he should make a great number 2 behind Gallardo.

gpngc
12-05-2010, 11:02 PM
Marcum is ******* awesome.

Hitters have trouble seeing his stuff and he always gets a million foul balls. He should be even better against hitters who have never faced him.

princefielder28
12-06-2010, 09:34 AM
We're not done dealing for pitching yet...Lorenzo Cain is being dangled out there to gauge interest..it appears that we're in a win-now mode

the_legend_killer
12-06-2010, 10:21 AM
We're in "Save Doug Melvin's Job" now mode. I don't want to go with Gomez/Dickerson in CF again this year........

princefielder28
12-06-2010, 11:42 AM
the team has inquired on the availability of Dodgers' 1B James Loney so that means Prince is certainly available out there; probably at too rich of a cost right now for other teams though

GB12
12-06-2010, 02:48 PM
We're not done dealing for pitching yet...Lorenzo Cain is being dangled out there to gauge interest..it appears that we're in a win-now mode

Now they're saying that Cain isn't going anywhere. Good. I don't want to go back to Carlos Gomez.

umphrey
12-06-2010, 03:20 PM
I don't care who we trade as long as Braun and Gallardo aren't involved. They are the only 2 players on the team that are sure things and under contract for awhile. There are only a couple players in the entire league that are as good a deal for their team. It's extremely rare to find that combination of excellency, consistency, good price, and length of contract.

So yeah I don't care much if we trade Lawrie or Cain or Fielder. Lawrie and Cain are all potential at this point. Percentages aren't great for them. We'll have to choose between Lawrie and Weeks anyways.

At this point I'd really rather hang on to Fielder for at least half a season because, screw it, we can't sell every year and keep looking for the playoffs next year. I don't think his value is going to change much between now and the deadline anyways because there will be injuries and there will be teams on the bubble that will feel confident that adding Fielder will be the difference between the playoffs or not.

Oh, and the 2 other players I would have on my untradable list would be Lucroy and Odorizzi. Lucroy because he was the most impressive rookie and we have no other option at catcher. Even if he slumps at the plate he's still a starter by being one hell of a defensive catcher. Odorizzi because putting pitchers with starter potential should be our #1 priority. I'm still unsure about guys like Jeffress and Mark Rogers. They could easily be solid relievers but I'm not sold on them as starters, at all. That reminds me, one last player on my untradable list is Axford because it would be the dumbest move of the century to trade your good young closer with zero other options.

drowe
12-06-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm cool with the Lawrie/Marcum trade.

Obviously, it sucks that we won't have Lawrie to look forward to anymore...but, we had to know that getting pitching was gonna cost something. And, getting pitching was a requirement.

We really can't afford to keep stockpiling hitting prospects while we try to piece together a crappy rotation of starting pitching and expect to compete.

The Brewer Farm is awesome at growing hitters. Bad at growing pitchers. It makes perfect sense to trade the latest in a long line of elite hitting prospects for a proven pitcher. I'm glad they did it. I hope they do it again.

In fact, maybe the strategy from here out should be to keep draft hitters early and then trade them to teams that know what the hell they're doing in the pitching department.

umphrey
12-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Exactly. Another hitter in the system isn't going to be a difference maker now or in the future. If we don't upgrade our pitching ranked 14th and last in the NL 2009 and 2008 respectively we might as well throw in the towel right now.

cvv84
12-06-2010, 05:08 PM
Also, was it for sure that Lawrie was going to play second? He could rake, no doubt, but wasn't he a butcher in the field? At least it's to the AL where we dont' have to worry about his revenge coming at us.

He did commit alot of errors at 2nd but remember he was making the transition from catcher. Scouts say he is a 3rd baseman or corner outfielder. Even still, we have little to no impact bats in our system now. I likened Lawrie to Casey McGehee. We'll see how this goes but lately Melvin's trades haven't favored the Brewers.


Oh and the Brewers and Dodgers are discussing Fielder. We'd be looking at James Loney and Johnathan Broxton in return. -----OK forget that, its been shot down. Gotta love the winter meetings.

drowe
12-06-2010, 06:07 PM
He did commit alot of errors at 2nd but remember he was making the transition from catcher. Scouts say he is a 3rd baseman or corner outfielder. Even still, we have little to no impact bats in our system now. I likened Lawrie to Casey McGehee. We'll see how this goes but lately Melvin's trades haven't favored the Brewers.


Oh and the Brewers and Dodgers are discussing Fielder. We'd be looking at James Loney and Johnathan Broxton in return. -----OK forget that, its been shot down. Gotta love the winter meetings.

That trade would've angered me. We can win this Prince Fielder situation. But, trading for an inferior first baseman isn't the way. get another solid #2 or 3 pitcher or a pitching prospect and i'm happy.

EvilMonkey
12-06-2010, 10:02 PM
love the trade.

I realize he is still young and has a great swing, but lawrie wasn't exactly raking in the minors. .286 w/ 8 HR in AA after .274 w/ 13 HR in A the year before. Decent OBP and obviously has a lot of potential still, but he hasn't shown a ton of it yet. And that doesn't even bring into play how bad he is defensively and the apparent attitude problems he has. Brett Lawrie is by no stretch of the imagination anywhere near ready for the majors or shown that he can be ready anytime soon, and it's not even a sure thing he ever gets there, let alone becomes an all-star, like some people seem to think.

EvilMonkey
12-07-2010, 04:17 PM
http://m.deadspin.com/5707799/blue-jays-fans-take-a-good-look-at-your-classy-new-infielder

the_legend_killer
12-08-2010, 12:59 AM
Wil Nieves, **** Yeah!


And of course by that, I mean "Seriously? What the ****?"

drowe
12-08-2010, 06:01 PM
Wil Nieves, **** Yeah!


And of course by that, I mean "Seriously? What the ****?"

Agreed. Every year, it's a new mediocre-at-best catcher. I didn't mind Kottaras as a #2. I realize the chances of him ever throwing out a runner are roughly the same as if the ball were to bounce off the catcher's mask and roll to second..but, he was serviceable.

Sounds like we're looking at some pitchers. Pavano, Garza...even a dark horse for Greinke. solid.

But, I think I'm out of the loop on Mark Rogers...what are his prospects of being in the 2011 rotation? good, or starting the year in Nashville?

princefielder28
12-08-2010, 06:04 PM
I think Rogers will start the year in Nashville and build his stamina as a starter and then be a bullpen guy later in the year, emergency starter, and then breaking into the rotation in 2012 as long as things go as planned.

umphrey
12-09-2010, 05:52 PM
I think Rogers will start the year in Nashville and build his stamina as a starter and then be a bullpen guy later in the year, emergency starter, and then breaking into the rotation in 2012 as long as things go as planned.
Agreed, completely.

If we get Pavano or the amazing Zach Grienke we are legitimate contenders. Too bad we can't hurt the farm anymore to get Grienke and we are almost certain to get outbid for Pavano. It would be a surprise but not out of the question and get me ultra psyched for the season.

By the way, is it pronounced Markum or Marsum or Marschum or what?

cvv84
12-18-2010, 11:10 PM
A Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel blog reports that the Brewers could be acquiring Zack Greinke from the Royals for Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress and Lorenzo Cain.

Ughhh... I'd hate to give up on Escobar so soon and both Cain and Jeffress have shown flashes of their potential. Sure our pitching could be improved but who's going to play SS and I feel queezy seeing Gomez as a starter.

J-Mike88
12-19-2010, 07:07 AM
Ughhh... I'd hate to give up on Escobar so soon and both Cain and Jeffress have shown flashes of their potential. Sure our pitching could be improved but who's going to play SS and I feel queezy seeing Gomez as a starter.
Prospects RARELY turn into All-Stars, and it's more common for them to barely even end up as solid players.

CONGRATS BREW CREW!!
GREAT DEAL FOR the BREWERS to GET ZACH!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5935586&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_5935586

Former Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke has been traded to the Milwaukee Brewers, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney on Sunday morning.

In the deal, the Brewers would reportedly give the Royals outfielder Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar and prospect pitchers Jake Odorizzi and Jeremy Jeffress for Greinke, 10-14 with a 4.17 ERA in 2010 after winning the 2009 Cy Young.

EvilMonkey
12-19-2010, 08:02 AM
Ughhh... I'd hate to give up on Escobar so soon and both Cain and Jeffress have shown flashes of their potential. Sure our pitching could be improved but who's going to play SS and I feel queezy seeing Gomez as a starter.

agree. Melvin definitely is going all-in on this year. Our rotation is much improved, but potentially having Betancourt and Gomez in our lineup every day and getting on base at a sub .300 clip scares me.

Please get Counsel signed and make him the starting SS just to keep Betancourt on the bench. And let Dickerson start in CF or something. If we are gonna go all in like this, can we just trade Gamel for someone who can adequately play CF or SS?

drowe
12-19-2010, 08:03 AM
HOLY ************* ****!!!11111 AND IT'S NOT EVEN CHRISTMAS YET.


Ok, so we literally sold the farm to get the guy, but indivdually, didn't lose any cornerstones.

Odorizzi and Jeffres might be good, but I don't trust the Brewers to bring along any pitching prospects.

Escobar was never gonna be an elite player because he was a one dimensional hitter at best.

I liked Cain, but not as much as Zach ************* Greinke!!!!!!!!

Time to type up the Brewers rotation and rub one off.

princefielder28
12-19-2010, 08:07 AM
Oh happy day!!!!!!

EvilMonkey
12-19-2010, 08:10 AM
veteran guys who might be cheap who I immediately want the Brewers to go after:

bring back Counsell, can Scotty Po play center?, Orlando Cabrera, Rick Ankiel, Jim Edmonds, Lastings Milledge, Edgar Renteria, Randy Winn

I do not want to see Yunesky Betancourt and Carlos Gomez in a lineup every day.

princefielder28
12-19-2010, 08:14 AM
Orlando Cabrera would be a great addition

senormysterioso
12-19-2010, 08:15 AM
Greinke is going to ******* beast in the national league. Three legit starters in Milwaukee, we haven't been able to say that for awhile.

Chucky
12-19-2010, 08:16 AM
Congrats on getting Greinke. You guys absolutely stole him, I can't believe the Jays couldn't top that offer.

princefielder28
12-19-2010, 08:25 AM
Thanks Chucky!

We've always had the "future" to hang our hats on, waiting patiently year-by-year for everything to come together, but now we've mortaged the future for now and i'm excited about it!!!!

T-RICH49
12-19-2010, 08:52 AM
congrats on stealing Zack from us...oh and good luck with Yuni...you'll need it

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-19-2010, 09:02 AM
Yuni is terrible defensively and offensively he is an OBP liability. Of course, he did manage a career high 16 HRs and some of those were pretty clutch.

I don't like what I'm seeing so far on your board about "stealing" Greinke. I've done some research on your minor leagues and see that Escobar was the #2 prospect, Cain #8, Odorizzi #9 and they said Jeffress would have been listed if not for his drug issue??? Escobar seems like a great glove with not much bat. Cain looks like a guy with all the tools, he just hasn't put it together yet and Odorizzi is going to be a good pitcher. I wanna know what you think about these guys from a Brewers fan perspective. And what's up with Jeffress and drugs?

Oh, by the way, you'll ******* love Greinke. He is better than you though he was and pitching in the NL will only make him better. Great fastball in the mid-low 90's. He can reach back and push it to the high 90's when he needs it. He has a great curve ball and then an even better super slow curve ball. Every pitch in his arsenal are ++ and can be thrown for strikes. If the opposing team is going to get to him, most of the time it's early in the game. If he makes it through the 2nd inning unscathed, then get ready for a great pitching performance. I hate to see him go, but I understand the baseball decision that had to be made. He wasn't resigning with KC after 2012 and he wants to win now.

princefielder28
12-19-2010, 09:08 AM
Odorizzi is the best part of the deal for the Royals, top end of the rotation potential, and Jeffress has some serious ability but loves grass

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-19-2010, 09:16 AM
Odorizzi is the best part of the deal for the Royals, top end of the rotation potential, and Jeffress has some serious ability but loves grass

LOL, we all love/loved grass. I had to give it up when I got married and he should know he can't smoke in baseball. He was a 1st round pick, right? Hopefully this trade works out better for KC than the Beltran trade or the Damon trade or the Dye trade. Not a single player on the roster from the Beltran trade. I know we have much better management and talent evaluators now. I think that'll help.

senormysterioso
12-19-2010, 09:19 AM
LOL, we all love/loved grass. I had to give it up when I got married and he should know he can't smoke in baseball. He was a 1st round pick, right? Hopefully this trade works out better for KC than the Beltran trade or the Damon trade or the Dye trade. Not a single player on the roster from the Beltran trade. I know we have much better management and talent evaluators now. I think that'll help.

Yah, he was 16th overall for us a few years back if memory serves me. I was always really excited about his potential.

cvv84
12-19-2010, 09:49 AM
Now Jeffress might not be involved in the trade. Its rumored to be Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi, and a player to be named.

EvilMonkey
12-19-2010, 10:46 AM
I don't like what I'm seeing so far on your board about "stealing" Greinke. I've done some research on your minor leagues and see that Escobar was the #2 prospect, Cain #8, Odorizzi #9 and they said Jeffress would have been listed if not for his drug issue??? Escobar seems like a great glove with not much bat. Cain looks like a guy with all the tools, he just hasn't put it together yet and Odorizzi is going to be a good pitcher. I wanna know what you think about these guys from a Brewers fan perspective. And what's up with Jeffress and drugs?


It is "potentially" a steal of Greinke.

Escobar was a top prospect, but he definitely didn't play up to expectations last year. He obviously still has room to grow, but a .235 AVG and .288 OBP last year is not a good sign. I can't imagine what his AVG would have been if he didn't have the speed to beat out some infield singles. He is not the prospect he was a year ago.

Cain is somewhat of an enigma for me. I love him but truly have no idea how good he could be. He has speed, but it hasn't been shown a ton in the majors or minors. Really don't know if he could develop some power potential or not but right now it doesn't look like it. Best case scenario, I think he is Randy Wynn in his prime with a little more speed (.300 AVG, .350 OBP, 30 SB easily possible), worst case he is a great defensive CF that hits around .275, .330 obp, 20-30 steals. Either way, he'll be a good player.

Odorizzi has been talked about plenty. Great potential and I think the best piece of the trade, but still very much a prospect and you never know how they pan out.

I feel people are calling it a steal, because if Escobar doesn't improve a lot offensively and Odorizzi doesn't pan out (which he is by no way a sure thing since he's just pitched in A ball), the trade could end up being a great defensive SS with a bad bat and a slightly above average CF for a Cy Young winning Starter.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-19-2010, 10:50 AM
your right, cbssports.com is calling the trade official now, but Jeffress isn't specifically named in the trade. They leave it open for him to eventually be the player named later.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
12-19-2010, 10:59 AM
It is "potentially" a steal of Greinke.

Escobar was a top prospect, but he definitely didn't play up to expectations last year. He obviously still has room to grow, but a .235 AVG and .288 OBP last year is not a good sign. I can't imagine what his AVG would have been if he didn't have the speed to beat out some infield singles. He is not the prospect he was a year ago.

Cain is somewhat of an enigma for me. I love him but truly have no idea how good he could be. He has speed, but it hasn't been shown a ton in the majors or minors. Really don't know if he could develop some power potential or not but right now it doesn't look like it. Best case scenario, I think he is Randy Wynn in his prime with a little more speed (.300 AVG, .350 OBP, 30 SB easily possible), worst case he is a great defensive CF that hits around .275, .330 obp, 20-30 steals. Either way, he'll be a good player.

Odorizzi has been talked about plenty. Great potential and I think the best piece of the trade, but still very much a prospect and you never know how they pan out.

I feel people are calling it a steal, because if Escobar doesn't improve a lot offensively and Odorizzi doesn't pan out (which he is by no way a sure thing since he's just pitched in A ball), the trade could end up being a great defensive SS with a bad bat and a slightly above average CF for a Cy Young winning Starter.

thank you for your fans perspective. That's good info on all the players involved. So, it sounds like this trade is completely based on potential for the Royals. Even though a couple of these guys have had MLB experience, they are all still potential players. Odorizzi and Cain sound like really good prospects. Escobar is young enough to see his potential. I just wish that we didn't pigeon hole ourselves, as a franchise, to needing only "up the middle prospects". That seems pretty narrow minded. I'd rather have BPA in a trade than best CF or SS, you know?

umphrey
12-19-2010, 01:18 PM
No freakin way. This is the trade I have dreamed about but said wouldn't happen. Go back and find all the posts where I said Grienke would be too good to be true and Escobar/Cain/Jeffress are completely tradable players. I don't like giving up Odorizzi but I am so freakin happy I couldn't care less at the moment. He was in what, A league? Whatever, he's a polished rookie (that's the opinion I choose now that he's gone, though it's pretty much true).

Playoffs. PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!! We are legit contenders now.

I don't know who we are going to put at short stop (a cornerstone position) but I feel so ridiculously happy about our pitching and offensive fire power I feel like we can compete with anyone in the NL. Seriously, this is so awesome, management has made pretty much every move I wanted them to make so far this offseason and not the ones I didn't want so far. Beyond happy, ecstatic, elated.

From next to last pitching to top 3 I'd say (vs. Phillies and Giants) in a couple of trades and a middle of the order Weeks-Hart-Braun-Fielder-McGehee that can slug and hit with anybody - my expectations are sky high for this team right now and I can't wait for March.

umphrey
12-19-2010, 01:50 PM
I'll add that I'm glad we unloaded Jeffress. He doesn't have starting potential to me since all he has is a fastball and he has been trying and failing to develop a 2nd let alone 3rd or 4th pitch. Don't really trust him as a reliever either for a lot of reasons but one of the top one is would you really trust him to throw a bunch of 98 MPH fast balls and not give up home runs in tight games?

Also, best starting rotation in the NL would be the Phillies and after that right now it looks like it could be us or San Francisco or St. Louis (I forgot about STL in my previous post). To be honest I probably like our rotation better than SF's since they only have 2 pitchers I really like (Lincecum and Cain) and their awesome pitching had a lot to do with their bullpen. Which brings me to the last thing I wanted to say - Brewers, please have a competitive bullpen to complement these studs. They should do better since the starters will eat more innings but I don't want to see the team fail because of them.

J-Mike88
12-19-2010, 03:28 PM
agree. Melvin definitely is going all-in on this year.
I wouldn't say that "this year" here.
Greinke is not old or anything like that.

He just turned 27 after the season ended.
For comparison's sake:

Adam Wainwright is 29
CC Sabathia is 30
Cliff Lee is 32
Roy Halliday is 33
Roy Oswalt is 33
Chris Carpenter is 35

The Brewers just stole a guy who's a Cy Young arm and is 6 years younger than Cliff Lee.
Great deal. Forget the "prospects".

6 years from now, when ZG is 33 (same age as Cliff Lee now), I bet only one of those prospects is a regular big leaguer, and none of them will be at near the level Greinke is.

This is like Christmas.

This would be like the Packers adding a Julius Peppers or Elvis Dumervil in the off-season..... stop it.

senormysterioso
12-19-2010, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't say that "this year" here.
Greinke is not old or anything like that.

He just turned 27 after the season ended.
For comparison's sake:

Adam Wainwright is 29
CC Sabathia is 30
Cliff Lee is 32
Roy Halliday is 33
Roy Oswalt is 33
Chris Carpenter is 35

The Brewers just stole a guy who's a Cy Young arm and is 6 years younger than Cliff Lee.
Great deal. Forget the "prospects".

6 years from now, when ZG is 33 (same age as Cliff Lee now), I bet only one of those prospects is a regular big leaguer, and none of them will be at near the level Greinke is.

This is like Christmas.

This would be like the Packers adding a Julius Peppers or Elvis Dumervil in the off-season..... stop it.

Not to be a pessimist, but 6 years from now Greinke is going to be getting $150 million from the Red Sox.

GB12
12-19-2010, 04:17 PM
Wow this is awesome. I didn't believe it when the rumors came out, but this is incredible.

I really don't care about giving up Escobar and Jeffress. I'd rather not have lost Oddirizzi and Cain, but for Greinke it's totally worth it.

J-Mike88
12-19-2010, 04:21 PM
Not to be a pessimist, but 6 years from now Greinke is going to be getting $150 million from the Red Sox.
Well, that's 6 YEARS... and if he gets gigantic dollars in 6 YEARS, that means he will have given the Brewers 6 GOOD or GREAT YEARS.

No worries about 2017 right now.
Enjoy the next 6 YEARS.

umphrey
12-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Grienke has 2 years left on his contract last I heard and that was a major point in him getting traded. It's like we were talking about trading Prince last offseason. 2 years he's going to be awesome though, and there is always a chance he signs. Maybe he'll like it here and/or we'll go to the playoffs.

senormysterioso
12-19-2010, 05:30 PM
Yah, that's what I was getting at. It's hard to envision a scenario where we're able to resign him after this deal. But you're right, we should enjoy him while we have him. This is like the wave of excitement after we got CC, except it should last 2 years instead of 2 months.

umphrey
12-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Yah, that's what I was getting at. It's hard to envision a scenario where we're able to resign him after this deal. But you're right, we should enjoy him while we have him. This is like the wave of excitement after we got CC, except it should last 2 years instead of 2 months.
Yeah I think we heavily avoid signing pitchers for more than 3 years anyway so this is probably only a year off what we would have offered him if we had to negotiate a deal.

This is going to seriously light a fire under the entire team. Weeks and Fielder are both playing for a contract anyways and guys like Braun and Hart are going to be at it 110%. I like how high the bar is being set for 2011.

cvv84
12-21-2010, 05:18 PM
According to Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com, an unidentified team from the NL Central is attempting to make a late run at signing Brandon Webb.

How awesome would it be if this were the Brewers!

drowe
12-21-2010, 10:54 PM
How awesome would it be if this were the Brewers!

Well, I'd bet good money that this news is BECAUSE of the Brewers. But, it ain't the Crew.

drowe
12-21-2010, 11:02 PM
So, now that the dust has settled, some thoughts:

Still love the Zach Greinke trade. For so many reasons;
-If nothing else, Milwaukee was the center of the baseball world for 48 hours. I love reading the MLB thread where fans of 8 different teams were pissed that their team couldn't put together a package to get the guy we got. We're not a 'headline news' team, so, any time the Crew is the lead story, it's fun.
-It's so weird to be excited about pitching. After a half decade of a potent offense and a AAA rotation, we're a complete team.
-We get to play the 'which pitcher will have more wins, Ks and lowest ERA game.
-Randy Wolf is our #4 pitcher.


Losing the group of prospects hurts, but, if history is any indication, we just would've ****** up the pitchers anyway. And, I liked Lorenzo Cain, but, small price to pay.

Lawrie doesn't even bother me too much. He is, by most accounts, a douche, and by all accounts, Canadian. I hope he does well for Toronto.


So, if the Packer season goes up in flames this week or next, at least we have the draft and Brewer season to look forward to.

PACKmanN
12-23-2010, 04:53 PM
I know it's kind of random, but here's my beef with the Marcum trade; When you find young pitchers and they become established as a 2-3 type in the rotation, you're never suppose to dispose of him for a hitter, and worse a unproven big league hitter.

Marcum, even though he lacks the big stuff, is a 2nd and even a underrated number 1 type pitcher in a rotation. How he was trade for just a single hitter, who may lack a position on our team, disappoints me. I'm pretty sure we could have gotten something more for him mid-season for teams making a push to the playoffs.

cvv84
12-23-2010, 05:09 PM
I know it's kind of random, but here's my beef with the Marcum trade; When you find young pitchers and they become established as a 2-3 type in the rotation, you're never suppose to dispose of him for a hitter, and worse a unproven big league hitter.

Marcum, even though he lacks the big stuff, is a 2nd and even a underrated number 1 type pitcher in a rotation. How he was trade for just a single hitter, who may lack a position on our team, disappoints me. I'm pretty sure we could have gotten something more for him mid-season for teams making a push to the playoffs.

Its all about money. Marcum was coming back from Tommy John surgery and the Blue Jays didn't want to comit the years and money to lock him up. Instead they get a hitter who they can control for more years at a cheaper cost. They didn't want to risk Marcum having a setback so trading him before the season makes sense, selling high in a way.

I think Lawrie is going to be a good player. Not a stud hitter but a guy who can hit .260-270 with 15-20 HRs. He's either a 3rd baseman or corner OFer though.

PACKmanN
12-23-2010, 09:52 PM
Its all about money. Marcum was coming back from Tommy John surgery and the Blue Jays didn't want to comit the years and money to lock him up. Instead they get a hitter who they can control for more years at a cheaper cost. They didn't want to risk Marcum having a setback so trading him before the season makes sense, selling high in a way.

I think Lawrie is going to be a good player. Not a stud hitter but a guy who can hit .260-270 with 15-20 HRs. He's either a 3rd baseman or corner OFer though.

Marcum was never a blow it past you type of guy and, like it has been reported in the past, tommy john surgery is overrated. Not only that, his commend and movement in his pitches are what makes him dominate. I could see him have a better season than Grenkie; he's an underrated guy because he played for the Jays

Again on that tommy john thing, Marcum is a hard working guy, let alone he saw it first hand in Roy and rubbed off to him.

Chucky
12-24-2010, 10:32 AM
I think Lawrie is going to be a good player. Not a stud hitter but a guy who can hit .260-270 with 15-20 HRs. He's either a 3rd baseman or corner OFer though.

I think you severely underrating Lawries hitting ability. He is much better than a .270 and 20 HR guy at best.

cvv84
12-24-2010, 01:33 PM
I think you severely underrating Lawries hitting ability. He is much better than a .270 and 20 HR guy at best.

Yeah because he's been so productive at the minor league level lol. He's solid but overall he isn't anything more.

Marcum was never a blow it past you type of guy and, like it has been reported in the past, tommy john surgery is overrated. Not only that, his commend and movement in his pitches are what makes him dominate. I could see him have a better season than Grenkie; he's an underrated guy because he played for the Jays

Again on that tommy john thing, Marcum is a hard working guy, let alone he saw it first hand in Roy and rubbed off to him.

I'm just saying that maybe it scared the Jays away from wanting to keep him long term so they sold high when he was coming off a very good season - his 1st back from Tommy John.

EvilMonkey
12-24-2010, 07:20 PM
I think you severely underrating Lawries hitting ability. He is much better than a .270 and 20 HR guy at best.

he hasn't shown much since being drafted. I know he has a great swing but it hasn't translated into hitting the ball in the minors yet. Not the prospect people say he is. That said, his ceiling still could be better than .270, 20 HR; but not by that much, which if he can do that consistently, is a damn good ballplayer, especially if he can stay at 2B (which is doubtful since he is atrocious there). I think his ceiling is an average corner OF(which would be worth Marcum).

Chucky
12-24-2010, 07:36 PM
I mean the guy was drafted right out of high school. It is pretty unreasonable to expect much production from a guy right of HS. His production was pretty damn solid for a 20 year old.

umphrey
12-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Marcum does pitch pretty slow averaging 87.1 MPH on his fast ball for 4th slowest in the AL last year. It should work out fine though if we sandwich him between Grienke and Gallardo, who can both hit mid 90s. Unfortunately that means our rotation goes R R R L L handed assuming Narveson pitches 5th. I don't really see any way we don't have Grienke Gallardo Marcum as the 1-2-3 though.

This year we need LaTroy Hawkins and John Axford to step up big time. Axford I have confidence in but he was wild at times and being a second year player there is going to be more scouting reports on him. If he hits a sophomore slump it would spell disaster. Hawkins needs to pitch well and stay healthy because I don't see any other good setup man option. I have complete confidence that we are going to see starters pitching 7 innings more often than not this year. Innings 8 and 9 are the questionable and most important ones.

Projected bullpen:
Closer: John Axford
Set Up: LaTroy Hawkins
Lefty specialist: Zach Braddock
Long reliever: Manny Parra
Short reliever: Kameron Loe
1 or 2 guys we haven't seen much and will be the last option

There's just a lot of pressure on Loe, Axford, and Hawkins to keep this elite pitching staff hitting on all cylinders because I don't see anyone else we can hand the ball to and expect a shut out inning from. Thankfully it's 3 guys and they won't have to eat up a lot of innings but to me this part of the team is on the most shaky ground.

cvv84
12-27-2010, 10:40 AM
According to Japan's Nikkan Sports, the Brewers are nearing a one-year contract with right-hander Takashi Saito worth around $3 million.

the_legend_killer
12-27-2010, 10:49 AM
We need a bullpen arm and I wouldn't have a problem with Saito, especially only a one-year deal.

umphrey
12-27-2010, 02:12 PM
I ask for a setup man and a day or 2 later we sign a setup man. I love this franchise over the past 5 years or so.

Takashi Saito signed to a 1 year deal of about $3.2M.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4575/saitoe.jpg

cvv84
12-27-2010, 03:38 PM
Next time ask for the Brewers to trade for Felix Hernandez...

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2011, 07:31 PM
Do any of you guys think Capuano has anything left in his arm to be a decent SP still? We just signed him and I think it's a very good low risk solid reward move. I heard his stuff was just as good the 2nd half of last year as i ever was, is this true?

princefielder28
01-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Do any of you guys think Capuano has anything left in his arm to be a decent SP still? We just signed him and I think it's a very good low risk solid reward move. I heard his stuff was just as good the 2nd half of last year as i ever was, is this true?

Capuano still has something to provide as a starter..I was hopeful that we would bring him back to compete with Narveson as our fifth starter but obviously that didn't happen

cvv84
01-03-2011, 08:34 PM
SP this year is a bit of a stretch if you ask me. Maybe after the All Star break but he's missed a ton of innings the past 2 years so to expect anything more than a reliver who's good for a spot start or two would asking alot IMO.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2011, 09:31 PM
He had 106 IP last year combined between the majors and minors so I'm hoping he can slot in as our 5th. I'm not expecting any miracles but if his stuff is still there I'll be hopeful he can contribute.

senormysterioso
01-03-2011, 09:55 PM
He had 106 IP last year combined between the majors and minors so I'm hoping he can slot in as our 5th. I'm not expecting any miracles but if his stuff is still there I'll be hopeful he can contribute.

The thing I'll always remember about Cappy is that whenever he tried to pick off a guy, our announcers would always go on and on for the rest of the inning about how his move to first base is the best in the history of baseball, every time!

EvilMonkey
01-10-2011, 09:59 PM
Can we just give Podsednik a 1 year deal for like 3 mil and have him as our everyday CF?

I don't understand at all why there is no market for a guy who's hit above .290 with over 30 steals the last 2 years. Not great on defense, but cmon he is gonna be a bargain for someone.

princefielder28
01-11-2011, 04:34 PM
Trevor Hoffman has retired

princefielder28
02-01-2011, 04:02 PM
looks like we're gonna sign Mark Kotsay

EvilMonkey
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
looks like we're gonna sign Mark Kotsay

can we sign Scotty Po or Edmonds instead?

EvilMonkey
02-13-2011, 06:38 PM
buster olney said today it makes perfect sense for the Brewers to trade for Michael Young. I doubt we have the players left in the system to make that happen, but please Doug, pull another rabbit out of your hat and get us a SS that isnt Betancourt.

princefielder28
02-13-2011, 06:48 PM
buster olney said today it makes perfect sense for the Brewers to trade for Michael Young. I doubt we have the players left in the system to make that happen, but please Doug, pull another rabbit out of your hat and get us a SS that isnt Betancourt.

I don't think it would take much to get Michael Young given his ugly contract, and I feel the road block in getting a deal done for him would come financially, not compensation-wise

the_legend_killer
02-13-2011, 06:52 PM
No thanks on Michael Young.

umphrey
02-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Last year Betancourt hit .260 with 16 HRs in the AL. I don't love the guy but how much hate can this guy possibly get before even entering spring training for this team? Can't have stars at every position. Between him and Counsell we'll get adequate production out of our short stop. We're not asking him to win games, just get on base once in awhile at the bottom of the order and don't screw up too many ground balls. I wouldn't give much consideration at all to a trade for a starting short stop until we get to June or so and the position is killing the team.