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Smokey Joe
04-01-2007, 04:27 PM
Welcome to the Bears forum Baseball thread...

White Sox > Indians > Cubs.

bearsfan_51
04-01-2007, 06:22 PM
I actually think the Cubs will win the NL Central.

I also think the National League is a joke and should be sent to Canada though.

Smokey Joe
04-01-2007, 07:53 PM
I actually think the Cubs will win the NL Central.

I also think the National League is a joke and should be sent to Canada though.
If the NL is a complete joke, how did a representative of them win the World Series?

biotch! :D

VoteLynnSwan
04-01-2007, 11:08 PM
yea that was easily the most ridiculous world series ever.

sweetness34
04-02-2007, 12:31 AM
yea that was easily the most ridiculous world series ever.

It was a fluke how the Cardinals, a team who squeeked into the playoffs beat the Tigers, who like 51 said, shat down their legs.

The AL is kinda like the AFC in Football.

Who else is with me that Detroit falls off the table this year? Ok maybe not off the table but I think they finish 3rd in the Central behind the Indians and ChiSox. Being without Kenny Rogers for what, 3 months is going to hurt. I don't care who the think can step in, Kenny is still a very good pitcher IMHO.

If Prior can sprout a dick this season and step up, the Cubs are going to be goooooood. Their hitting is insane, I like their bullpen, and their pitching is ok. But it's got a shot to be very solid. Depends a lot on what Lilly, Hill, and Marquis can do.

sweetness34
04-02-2007, 12:32 AM
If the NL is a complete joke, how did a representative of them win the World Series?

biotch! :D

Because Detroit totally choked. They should've swept the friggin Cardinals, especially with how good they were playing at the time. Major choke job.

VoteLynnSwan
04-02-2007, 12:52 AM
It was a fluke how the Cardinals, a team who squeeked into the playoffs beat the Tigers, who like 51 said, shat down their legs.

The AL is kinda like the AFC in Football.

Who else is with me that Detroit falls off the table this year? Ok maybe not off the table but I think they finish 3rd in the Central behind the Indians and ChiSox. Being without Kenny Rogers for what, 3 months is going to hurt. I don't care who the think can step in, Kenny is still a very good pitcher IMHO.

If Prior can sprout a dick this season and step up, the Cubs are going to be goooooood. Their hitting is insane, I like their bullpen, and their pitching is ok. But it's got a shot to be very solid. Depends a lot on what Lilly, Hill, and Marquis can do.

a lot depends on what Wade Miller can do as well... if he can be what he was before his injuries... he could be terrific for us.

dabears10
04-02-2007, 11:40 AM
Who else is with me that Detroit falls off the table this year? Ok maybe not off the table but I think they finish 3rd in the Central behind the Indians and ChiSox. Being without Kenny Rogers for what, 3 months is going to hurt. I don't care who the think can step in, Kenny is still a very good pitcher IMHO.

You don't think the twins will be a top 3 team in the AL central? That's blasphemy.

Anyways, the Cubs need Hill and Marquis/Miller/Lilly to step up, with 3 quality starters i believe the Cubbies can win the Central easy.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2007, 01:49 PM
Good first start for Contreras. I'm telling you, this White Sox rotation is going to do some damage this year.

;)

Smokey Joe
04-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Good first start for Contreras. I'm telling you, this White Sox rotation is going to do some damage this year.

;)

Jose did look pretty bad, but it wasn't as bad as the box-score would show. He had a very good spring. Today his splitter wasn't splitting and he was missing his spots with the fastball. I think he will rebound nicely next week. Don't forget there are 161 games left in the season ;)

Smokey Joe
04-02-2007, 06:07 PM
Any team can beat any other team on any given day... I don't care if it is the Pirates vs. the Yankees in a 4 game set at Yankee Stadium. The Pirates could still sweep them, IMO. It all depends on if the ball bounces your way or not.

Like for the Superbowl, did any of you think we had no shot vs. the Colts? I hope not, because that game was for the Bears taking, but they mainly blew it.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2007, 06:44 PM
This is just example 1 out of 162 of my "why the White Sox starting pitching will keep them out of the playoffs".

Two young guys out of the bullpen (after the crummy guy with pitches) looked pretty good though. I like the big guy they got from the Royals if we can get control of his stuff. He reminds me of Scott Elarton of a few years ago.

sweetness34
04-02-2007, 07:10 PM
Good first start for Contreras. I'm telling you, this White Sox rotation is going to do some damage this year.

;)

They don't need to do damage, they need to give us consistent starts. Our hitting can do their part and we have a solid bullpen.

Borowski would scare the hell out of me if he was our closer, yikes. He throws some meat pitches.

GB12
04-02-2007, 09:07 PM
I actually think the Cubs will win the NL Central.

I also think the National League is a joke and should be sent to Canada though.

NL Central is wide open. There is only one team that can not win it. I'm still staying with the Cardinals but not by much.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2007, 09:09 PM
They don't need to do damage, they need to give us consistent starts. Our hitting can do their part and we have a solid bullpen.

Borowski would scare the hell out of me if he was our closer, yikes. He throws some meat pitches.
I'm not crazy about Borowski, but he's the best we could do on the Free Agent market. I imagine we'll win a lot of games by 3-4 runs anyway.

Smokey Joe
04-02-2007, 09:37 PM
This is just example 1 out of 162 of my "why the White Sox starting pitching will keep them out of the playoffs".

Two young guys out of the bullpen (after the crummy guy with pitches) looked pretty good though. I like the big guy they got from the Royals if we can get control of his stuff. He reminds me of Scott Elarton of a few years ago.

Masset got off to a shakey start early allowing 3 runs, but settled down after that. Sisco looked great. And Aardsma looked real good also. Our downfall last year was the Bullpen.

And about the rotation, if we can get 3 guys to consistantly pitch good, we will be fine. Contreras will rebound nicely, as I have said before. Buehrle looked great the other day in ST, and he might return to form. Vazquez is due for a break out year. Garland, well, is Garland. We need to hope Danks lives up to that ace potential.

bearsfan_51
04-04-2007, 04:50 PM
Chalk up another one for the good guys.

sweetness34
04-04-2007, 04:58 PM
Chalk up another one for the good guys.

That umpire sucked ass 51...Jesus, talk about squeezing pitchers (for both sides of course).

Anywho nice catch to end the game. It's only fitting that Pods robs that one guy in the 9th, and then Crede gets robbed to end the game. Oh well. Not to upset about it.

The Mavs started 0-4 and have the best record in the league right now. The KC Royals were incredible 3 years ago the first half of the season and totally fell off. Just got to get that pitching back, and it all starts with throwing strikes, limiting walks, and attacking hitters.

dabears10
04-05-2007, 12:13 AM
Lilly Pitched really well today. I was impressed with the way he was working the strikezone. Too bad Dempster actually pitched well, I can't wait til Howry takes closing duties. The Cubbies "great" offense has not done well but they have been a bit more patient this year.

Smokey Joe
04-05-2007, 06:01 PM
finally got one, even though we made very unimpressive Jeremy Sowers look like Cy Young.

bearsfan_51
04-05-2007, 07:25 PM
Jeremy Sowers is better than any starting pitcher for the Tribe or the White Sox. He was off today, I've seen him much much better. He had the best ERA besides Roger in the 2nd half of the season, he's just not talked about much.

By the way, that was a really lame way to end the game. Granted they would have eventually won anyway, but stand in the ******* batters box or they should bean him in the face next time.

Smokey Joe
04-05-2007, 08:27 PM
From what I saw of Sowers, he looked like a little league pitcher. Topping out at 86 with his fastball, had a very mediocre change, and his breaking ball was just a roller. As a tribe fan, you better hope he was "off" because if he pitches like that all the time, he isn't gonna last long in the majors.

Also, that was a *** way to end. I was even pissed. If that was me at bat, I wouldn't care if I just got drilled in the head. I'd want to earn the game winning RBI.

bearsfan_51
04-05-2007, 08:31 PM
From what I saw of Sowers, he looked like a little league pitcher. Topping out at 86 with his fastball, had a very mediocre change, and his breaking ball was just a roller. As a tribe fan, you better hope he was "off" because if he pitches like that all the time, he isn't gonna last long in the majors.

Also, that was a *** way to end. I was even pissed. If that was me at bat, I wouldn't care if I just got drilled in the head. I'd want to earn the game winning RBI.
It's not like Sowers came out of nowhere, he started 15 games last year with 2 complete game shutouts and a 3.53 ERA. He doesn't have elite stuff, but that's so vastly overrated anyway. For as much as you think "insert mediocre pitcher from the White Sox" is a great young talent to say that Sowers won't last long in the majors is laughable. He was a top 10 pick, and is more highly ranked than any young pitcher the White Sox have in their system.

Smokey Joe
04-05-2007, 08:53 PM
It's not like Sowers came out of nowhere, he started 15 games last year with 2 complete game shutouts and a 3.53 ERA. He doesn't have elite stuff, but that's so vastly overrated anyway. For as much as you think "insert mediocre pitcher from the White Sox" is a great young talent to say that Sowers won't last long in the majors is laughable. He was a top 10 pick, and is more highly ranked than any young pitcher the White Sox have in their system.

I just watched some highlights of Sowers from last year, and he reminds me a bit of Buehrle. But he has a "funkier" motion. Their fastballs are about the same, and they both rely on their location. Sowers has a bit better breaking ball, but Buehrle has a better change and also has a cutter. Sowers is never going to be a stud. With the success Buehrle has had so far in his career, Sowers has hope.

Also, I said if he pitches like he did today, he won't last long in the league. I never saw him pitch before, and today he looked like the only thing that he had was a corkey deliever that unbalanced some hitters, so don't try and act like some genius know it all and try and try and say I am practically an idiot, a-hole.

And how can you say Sowers is soo much better then everyone on both the White Sox and Indians? Now that is laughable. And I can name dozens of players who were drafted in the top 10 who suck. Gavin Floyd was drated 4th overall. And has much better stuff then Sower. But he so far has not succeeded in the ML lever, so far in his young career.

Also, you act like Buehrle is a horrible pitcher, but he was a top pitcher in baseball for a couple years. And CC is much better then Sowers. Jon Garland has won 36 games these past two years. And I would also rather have Vazquez over Sowers. Vazquez has some of the best stuff in the league, and is due for a cy young contender-esque year.

And as far as prospects go, some I would rather have then Sowers include: Jon Danks, Gio Gonzalez, Adam Russel, and Charlie Haeger.

Can Sowers succeed in the majors? Probably. But will he be this elite player? I doubt it.

bearsfan_51
04-05-2007, 11:16 PM
Of course you would rather have those players, you've been drastically overrating the White Sox farm talent all year. I said Sowers is higher ranked, by people that are objective and know these things.

Smokey Joe
04-06-2007, 12:13 PM
From the Indians organization, I'd much rather have Adam Miller, and they have a couple other interesting pitching prospects that I'd might rather have. So no, it isn't all my White Sox bias and pure hatred of the Indians.

bearsfan_51
04-06-2007, 12:22 PM
From the Indians organization, I'd much rather have Adam Miller, and they have a couple other interesting pitching prospects that I'd might rather have. So no, it isn't all my White Sox bias and pure hatred of the Indians.
Oh Miller is definately the better pitching prospect. He's a future ace, whereas Sowers will probably max out as a #2.

iowatreat54
04-07-2007, 08:15 PM
the NL central is going to be really close this year IMO...the brewers are going to be tough and the reds will hang around...if the cubs want to win it the need consistency from atleast Z and Lilly plus solid contribution from the rest and then not have dempster decide to play with himself instead of closing out games...only then will they have a legit chance

awfullyquiet
04-11-2007, 04:42 PM
mmmm cubs.
i can smell the snow covering wrigley field right now.
it smells like cold.

more important.
NLC = ultra-tight.
cubs may have the better bats. which is weird.
they just need to convert hits into runs. i don't know if they have the speed for that. brewers, the only thing that scares me about them is turnbow. that kid can and will be scary as you try to come from behind.
reds/cards. yeah. y'know.
astros. are getting old, doesn't have the big power. will probably just be around .500 at best. yet dropped three so far to them.
pirates? i'd love to say they're a laughing matter.
oh, they're a laughing matter.
cool.

GB12
04-11-2007, 04:48 PM
mmmm cubs.
i can smell the snow covering wrigley field right now.
it smells like cold.

more important.
NLC = ultra-tight.
cubs may have the better bats. which is weird.
they just need to convert hits into runs. i don't know if they have the speed for that. brewers, the only thing that scares me about them is turnbow. that kid can and will be scary as you try to come from behind.
reds/cards. yeah. y'know.
astros. are getting old, doesn't have the big power. will probably just be around .500 at best. yet dropped three so far to them.
pirates? i'd love to say they're a laughing matter.
oh, they're a laughing matter.
cool.
Turnbow isn't even the closer, he was demoted after last years allstar break. He is starting to look good again and I said from the begining of the year that he will get it back. Either way with him and Cordero we are in good shape late into games. If something should scare you watch out for Sheets and Prince.

Smokey Joe
04-14-2007, 01:41 AM
owned *****.

sweetness34
04-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Well it must be the Indians' year this season. We have **** luck against them so far this year. They have one hit and are winning this game, and when we nail a ball it somehow goes to their defense. Unbelievable.

Smokey Joe
04-15-2007, 03:05 PM
Greg Walker is a useless hitting coach...

sweetness34
04-15-2007, 05:29 PM
Greg Walker is a useless hitting coach...

No he's not. He's a good hitting coach. We out hit the Indians by 6 today and lost.

Whoever our fielding coach is was useless today. We always have trouble against CC. Danks needs some run support though b/c he hasn't gotten any so far this season, and I'm not joking. He's gotten 0 run support. That's pathetic right there.

Smokey Joe
04-15-2007, 05:59 PM
No he's not. He's a good hitting coach. We out hit the Indians by 6 today and lost.

Whoever our fielding coach is was useless today. We always have trouble against CC. Danks needs some run support though b/c he hasn't gotten any so far this season, and I'm not joking. He's gotten 0 run support. That's pathetic right there.

You know nothing... you should stick to basketball. This offense is pathetic, and it is amazing how everyone on the team has the approach to try and pull and hit home runs. NO ONE, not anyone tries to go with the pitch, and hit line drives. It is sad really, because this is a talented offense, but Greg Walker's "power" philosophy just is a bad way to go. And Crede made 2 errors...

sweetness34
04-15-2007, 06:02 PM
You know nothing... you should stick to basketball. This offense is pathetic, and it is amazing how everyone on the team has the approach to try and pull and hit home runs. NO ONE, not anyone tries to go with the pitch, and hit line drives. It is sad really, because this is a talented offense, but Greg Walker's "power" philosophy just is a bad way to go. And Crede made 2 errors...

If you actually watched the games this year you'd realize that we've been hitting line drives and they'yre being caught. Look at the Cleveland series in Chicago and the Minnesota series. We were hitting seeds that were going right to the opposition.

Walker is a good hitting coach. His past two seasons show that, so just shut up and give it some time. Because no one is hitting in this cold weather right now.

Sure we've had our share of tough days at the plate, but those were against CC and Johan (Paul Byrd has been great this season so far as well). It's not like we aren't hitting against nobodies. Our offense will be fine. I just like our pitching right now, becuase that's my main concern for this team.

Smokey Joe
04-15-2007, 08:11 PM
If you actually watched the games this year you'd realize that we've been hitting line drives and they'yre being caught. Look at the Cleveland series in Chicago and the Minnesota series. We were hitting seeds that were going right to the opposition.

Walker is a good hitting coach. His past two seasons show that, so just shut up and give it some time. Because no one is hitting in this cold weather right now.

Sure we've had our share of tough days at the plate, but those were against CC and Johan (Paul Byrd has been great this season so far as well). It's not like we aren't hitting against nobodies. Our offense will be fine. I just like our pitching right now, becuase that's my main concern for this team.

Line drives? Maybe one or two good ones. Look at Ryan Garko, nothing but line shots hit to center or right by him. He focuses on going with the pitch, and making solid contact, like most of the Cleveland hitters. But Greg Walker, over the past several years, has thought the team to have a "power approach" to the plate. That is why soft tossing lefties and pitchers like Paul Byrd shut out the team. The offense tries to pull everything, and go for the big home run.

Smokey Joe
04-18-2007, 09:37 PM
suck it everyone... suck it...

awfullyquiet
04-19-2007, 01:33 AM
suck it everyone... suck it...

big b ftw.

not like i care. but always props to men who pitch perfect games...

dabears10
04-19-2007, 09:52 AM
Impressive performance by Buerhle. However, how do you walk Sosa who swings at anything?

Smokey Joe
05-09-2007, 10:30 PM
whatever happened to your boy Sowers 51? I told you that he wasn't that impressive... but it is still early, I'll give you that 51.

bearsfan_51
05-09-2007, 10:33 PM
The White Sox suck ass, I would hardly be bringing up anything that was said in the offseason.

4th highest payroll in the league and you can't crack .500

Smokey Joe
05-09-2007, 10:47 PM
actually, we are .500 right now. And guess what my friend, if the Indians want to continue to compete, that means they are going to have to rake over BIG money to players such as Sizemore, Hafner, Sabathia, and even some others like Garko in a few years. So, don't be surprised if the Indians move up to the 90 million range... if they want to continue to compete in the AL Central. Baseball is a business, and the workers get paid a lot. Quit bitching about it.

Also, the White Sox are currently 5th, but take away the 10-15 million other teams are paying them from trades (Phillies, Diamondbacks), they are more in the 10 range. And don't be surprised to see the White Sox go into rebuild mode.

Also, it is still early 51, and if the White Sox offense finally comes around, and when Hall and Thome come back from the DL, the White Sox have a chance to go on a big run. Especially if the pitching continues to deal. Hell, I think after tonight, the White Sox have the best ERA in the Central.

bearsfan_51
05-09-2007, 10:53 PM
The Indians have this thing called a farm system where we build new talent to replace the overrated older players that leave. Where do you think that Sizemore, Martinez, Hafner, and Sabathia come from?

The Indians farm system is stacked, and while you continue to dilude yourself that the W.Sox have a good farm system, they don't. SI had a list of 50 young players to build a team around, want to guess how many White Sox players were on it? I'll give you a hint, less than the Royals. Take any prospect ranking sheet, hardly any White Sox prospects to be found.

The differences between the two organizations could not be bigger. I'll give the White Sox the one year where they put it all together and won the series, those days are long gone.


And cracking .500 means being better than .500

As for the Sox rebounding, I called 4th in the Central, I'll stick 4th in the Central. Although you are correct that a purge will likely soon follow that..then we'll see what young talent they have that's actually ready.

Smokey Joe
05-09-2007, 11:04 PM
I don't care what anyone says, the White Sox have a very underrated farm system. Adam Russel and Jack Egbert are two of the most underrated pitching prospects in all of baseball. Jack Egbert compares to Brandon Webb, and has been nothing short of dominate. And Russel is a good young power arm, and in ST he dealt, and has been dealing down at AA. In fact, he was in competition for the 5th starter spot earlier.

Add that to Gio Gonzalez who compares to a young Barry Zito, along with a couple other mid-level pitching prospects, and the future rotation is looking bright.

Also, there is Dewon Day and Matt Long for the future of the bullpen. And Dewon might be 26-27, but when you have a slider that ranks in the 70's on a scouts chart, that's fantastic. And Long if he can get his control down, to go along with the hard fastball and biting curve he has, he can be a very good SU man at the least.

The offensive prospects are very questionable, but Ryan Sweeney who is currently on the Roster is the real deal, but Fields could become another 1st round bust. But there are a few more good looking hitting prospects down in A and AA. Most notably Chris Carter and Aaron Cunningham.

Also, how long do you think the Indians can continue to get top prospects up every year and preform? And especially when they take over for some like Sizemore, Hafner, or Sabathia? For every top prospect who succeeds, there are probably about 5 who fail miserably. You have to spend money to have a consistently good team. The Indians pre-2005 pretty much sucked.

bearsfan_51
05-09-2007, 11:13 PM
Also, how long do you think the Indians can continue to get top prospects up every year and preform? And especially when they take over for some like Sizemore, Hafner, or Sabathia? For every top prospect who succeeds, there are probably about 5 who fail miserably. You have to spend money to have a consistently good team. The Indians pre-2005 pretty much sucked.
See this is why you are in over your head. The Indians built up the team that dominated the 90's under John Hart and his assistant GM (and now current GM) Mark Shapiro. They had a 2 1/2 year slump after Shapiro took over because Hart did exactely what you said and started overspending to keep guys. Once they figured out that was stupid they fired Hart, purged the whole team, traded for guys like Sizemore, and rebuilt. I'm not saying we're going to win 90 games every year, no small market team does that. But guess what? No big market team does that either besides the Yanks and the Sox. So untill you start spending into the 150-175k range don't get your hopes up.

Sizemore still has 3 or 4 years under contract I believe. We've got Hafner and Sabathia for two more. Hafner should be resigned for what will be a relatively reasonable deal because he'll be a DH over 30, Sabathia will go to the Yanks or the Sox, and we'll replace him with Adam Miller, who currently is killing in AAA.

The Indians FO thinks 4-5 years in advance. That's why they can compete in the Central on a 50-60 million dollar payroll. They're smart.

bearsfan_51
05-09-2007, 11:22 PM
Here, read:

You Got To Grow Your Own


The baseball economy is all built around the Reserve Clause. You might think that the Reserve Clause is dead ? after all, we're always being told how powerful the MLB Players Union is. But the Reserve Clause is alive and well, it's just been tempered a bit by arbitration and free agency. It still allows a team to control a player for the first 10 to 12 years of his professional career. And that is why Jhonny Peralta made one-tenth of what Omar Vizquel made last season. And why he will next season, too. And the season after that. No matter how many home runs he hits.


We are told, especially as Shapiro-era Indians fans, of how important it is to build a team through the farm system, yet few actually understand why this is so. The obvious part is control: you get to keep the players you develop for a while before they can become free agents. The more subtle part is cost containment ? players that haven't reached free agency are far less expensive than players that have. And incredibly, players that haven't reached free agency aren't just cheaper, they're usually better, too. That's why it's possible for a low-budget budget team to perform on a par with the highest-paid teams.


For one example, let's go back to early 2004. Jason Varitek, leader of the world champion Red Sox, is a free agent. He's represented by the Big Bad Scott Boras?, but he really does want to stay. The two sides agree to a four-year deal that guarantees Varitek $40 million.


Now zoom ahead a few months to April. The Indians announce that like the Red Sox, they too will be signing their All-Star catcher to a long-term contract. Victor Martinez's deal is for five years and guarantees him $15.8 million. And the year after that, the Indians can choose to pay him another $7 million if they want to, or else they can let him go.


What the heck is going on here? Martinez is 26 and entering the prime of his career. Varitek is almost seven years older, nearing the age when most catchers start to deteriorate quickly. There is no one, and I mean no one, in the baseball industry who would predict that Varitek will be better than Martinez over the next four years. So why does Martinez get only 40 percent of the guaranteed money, and 32 percent of the annual salary, that Varitek gets? And how come Martinez is in a position where he has to also give up an option year to get the money, while Varitek is in a position to demand a no-trade clause?


Believe it or not, the answer is not that Martinez didn't have the BBSB?. Well, that may be part of the answer, but only a very small part. The main reason is that teams have amost complete control over player salaries until they've been in the major leagues for a few years -- and significant control after that, too. That gives the team tremendous leverage in contract negotiations -- but only if you drafted the player, or signed him before he was an established major leaguer.


And of course, if all goes well, one day Martinez will be just like Varitek. When his current contract expires, it's very likely he'll be past his prime and on the decline. And yet, he'll be more expensive. Think about Manny Ramirez ? who has been, in terms of performance, a very successful signing for Boston. Yet he has never quite achieved the same numbers in Boston that he had in his final years in Cleveland ? and the $20 million Boston pays him every season is more than he made in his entire career as an Indian.


And Manny's not even a very good example of this trend. In fact, he's one of the worst examples. Have you seen Jim Thome's numbers lately?


In general, you can only get a talented, cheap young player if you develop him in your own farm system. In theory, you can also trade for them ? the way the Tribe acquired Lofton, Baerga, Vizquel, Crisp, Sizemore and Lee ? and about ten other guys who were lousy, by the way. But the market appears to have finally caught up and ended that party ? young talents are now recognized by almost all teams as the most valuable assets a team can have, and they don't part with them as readily as they used to. And sadly, there won't be any more threats to contract the Expos, and Steve Phillips may never be a GM again.


A Brief History Of One Player's Contracts


And by "brief" I mean "vastly oversimplified." You're the GM, and you sign a prospect and give him his signing bonus, and then ...


Years 1-4. Prospect works his way through the minor leagues. After a few years, you decide whether he's important enough to use up a space on the 40-man roster ? or whether he's unimportant enough that you can live with losing him in the Rule 5 draft. Then ...


Years 4-6. Once he's on the 40-man roster, you have another three or four years to bounce him between the majors and minors, hoping he'll stick in the majors eventually. These are called "option years." Once those option years are gone, you have to keep him in the majors, or you might lose him to the waiver wire. Even if he stinks, like Brandon Phillips. (Side note to Brandon: Please don't take this personally. I like you, I believe in you, I'm rooting for you. But you stink.)


Years 6-8. The player is settling into the big leagues. Maybe he's doing it quickly, maybe he's doing it slowly. As long as he's better than Brandon Phillips, you don't really mind too much, because he's making peanuts ? relatively speaking. And even if he's threatening to win the MVP, he's still making peanuts ? it's great! But if that's the case, you better think about giving him a long-term deal, because pretty soon ...


Years 9-11. The player is now eligible for arbitration. He still can't leave unless you non-tender him, but a three-man panel is going to make you pay him something remotely fair. The first year is still quite cheap, the second feels reasonable, but the third ... well, you're practically paying him like a free agent now, so if you haven't signed him to a long-term deal already, maybe it's time to move on ...


And that, in a nutshell, is how a team with a tiny budget can compete with a team with a big budget. Is your All-Star catcher making $2 million or $8 million? Is your slugging shortstop making $350,000 or $19 million? Is your 17-win starter making $350,000 or $20 million? And have you managed to avoid having $60 million sitting on the Disabled List?


It adds up, particularly if you strip down your whole roster and attempt ? attempt ? to fill every single roster spot with players who fit that mold. And particularly if you consider: the $2 million young catcher is at the start of his prime, while the $8 million version is at the end of his. And all those $350,000 players are getting better, while the $20 million players are getting worse.


That may sound like a vast generalization, and it absolutely is. But it's also a fundamental truth of the game, and one that must be understood in order to build a roster effectively.

awfullyquiet
05-10-2007, 02:29 AM
news from the north side...

marquis.
ftw.

sweetness34
05-10-2007, 02:46 PM
Sox took 2 out of 3 from the Twinkies, should've swept them though. KC up next and then the Yanks.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 06:22 PM
Hey 51, fun fact for you. Out of all the AL Schedule's so far this season, the White Sox have had the toughest one with an opponents WP of .521. The only team with a tougher schedule has been the Dodger with an opponent WP of .527...

So, it is quite reasonable when you have a team struggling as bad as the White Sox being above .500 now vs. the teams they have had to face.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 06:25 PM
Also, 51. The White Sox are a big market team, and have consistantly been over .500, and have been a top 10 team for the past 20 years.

Also, I don't care what anyone says. No matter how many top prospects you have, not all of them pan out. You might get 1 become a stud, and 2-3 be decent, but the rest will fail miserably most likely. You can have the best scouting department in the world, players fail, no matter how much talent they have.

bearsfan_51
05-10-2007, 06:58 PM
I really have no idea what that has to do with anything.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 07:12 PM
I really have no idea what that has to do with anything.

It has everything to do with everything.

awfullyquiet
05-10-2007, 07:31 PM
dear everyone.
it's hot out.
but good baseball weather.

sox vs cubs = very soon.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-10-2007, 07:35 PM
Cubs > Sox.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 07:39 PM
Sox >>>>>>>>>>> Cubs

It really isn't close. Sox play in the toughest division in baseball, by far. the Cubs play in arguably the easiest, and also the national league.

awfullyquiet
05-10-2007, 08:16 PM
Sox >>>>>>>>>>> Cubs

It really isn't close. Sox play in the toughest division in baseball, by far. the Cubs play in arguably the easiest, and also the national league.

blah blah blah, designated hitter BS, blah blah blah.

Zambrano homers deep to left, blah blah blah.

I'm tired of all the black and white 'back to the grind' billboards.

VoteLynnSwan
05-10-2007, 08:54 PM
Sox >>>>>>>>>>> Cubs

It really isn't close. Sox play in the toughest division in baseball, by far. the Cubs play in arguably the easiest, and also the national league.

for the same reasons you're trying to compare them... they are simply incomparable.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 09:11 PM
blah blah blah, designated hitter BS, blah blah blah.

Zambrano homers deep to left, blah blah blah.

I'm tired of all the black and white 'back to the grind' billboards.
Actually, those are ***. The good ones are "We are Chicago Baseball"

Also, do you know how much easier the it is to pitch in the NL then the AL? You practically have 2 easy outs. Even if a pitcher is good at hitting, he would still suck at being an everyday hitter.

Smokey Joe
05-10-2007, 09:13 PM
Also, don't get me wrong. The Cubs are a decent team. But like VLS has said, they are tough to compare. The Cubs are good by NL standards one can say, but by AL they could possibly be worse then the Royals. But like I have always stated, any team can win a series in baseball, no matter how good one team or another is.

With that being said, I like the NL style of play better then the AL, and I am not a big fan of the DH, but I grew up a Sox fan.

awfullyquiet
05-10-2007, 09:27 PM
i'm sorry your parents raised you wrong...
well, that being said, my parents are sox fans.

but where we all get along is the bears. minus my brother, who's some version of a cheesehead. from the great green flight.

dabears10
05-11-2007, 12:13 PM
Also, don't get me wrong. The Cubs are a decent team. But like VLS has said, they are tough to compare. The Cubs are good by NL standards one can say, but by AL they could possibly be worse then the Royals. But like I have always stated, any team can win a series in baseball, no matter how good one team or another is.

With that being said, I like the NL style of play better then the AL, and I am not a big fan of the DH, but I grew up a Sox fan.

I don't think you could say they'd be as bad as the royals. With a DH the Cubs could start Jacque, Alfy, Murton/Pagan and have floyd as a DH and have derosa theriot Lee Aramis and Barrett. There is not an easy out in the whole lineup so I doubt that it would be a last place cubs team. I however am not silly enough to think we'd be able to win it but maybe stay within 10 games.

awfullyquiet
05-11-2007, 03:37 PM
at least our second city doesn't pay for giambi.

VoteLynnSwan
05-11-2007, 04:29 PM
If the Cubs were in the AL... the lineup would likely look something like this

1. Alfonso Soriano LF R
2. Mark DeRosa 2B R
3. Derrek Lee 1B R
4. Aramis Ramirez 3B R
5. Jacque Jones CF L
6. Michael Barrett C R
7. Cliff Floyd DH L
8. Matt Murton RF R
9. Caesar Izturis SS S

(this is how i'd do it at least)

Combine that with a pitching staff that has seen their 2-4 pitchers pitch lights out in the NL, which would be at least serviceable in the AL... And a #1 pitcher who typically starts out slow, and has been one of the most dominant pitchers over the last couple of years, plus a bullpen that has been pitching extremely well, especially lately; I don't know where you come off trying to say that this team would be comparable to the Royals... that's probably the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

sweetness34
05-11-2007, 04:48 PM
If the Cubs were in the AL... the lineup would likely look something like this

1. Alfonso Soriano LF R
2. Mark DeRosa 2B R
3. Derrek Lee 1B R
4. Aramis Ramirez 3B R
5. Jacque Jones CF L
6. Michael Barrett C R
7. Cliff Floyd DH L
8. Matt Murton RF R
9. Caesar Izturis SS S

(this is how i'd do it at least)

Combine that with a pitching staff that has seen their 2-4 pitchers pitch lights out in the NL, which would be at least serviceable in the AL... And a #1 pitcher who typically starts out slow, and has been one of the most dominant pitchers over the last couple of years, plus a bullpen that has been pitching extremely well, especially lately; I don't know where you come off trying to say that this team would be comparable to the Royals... that's probably the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

The Cubs' bullpen is horrid right now. Howry and Eyre are gawd awful, Cotts can't hit the strike zone, and Ohman is "Oh-Man!!." The only ones who are worth a salt right now are Wuertz, Cherry, and Dempster.

VoteLynnSwan
05-12-2007, 01:23 AM
i really question where you come up with that... The bullpen was bad at the beginning of the year, but since has turned it around...

Stats:

Bob Howry 0-2 2.60 ERA
Ryan Dempster 1-1 2.50 ERA 7 for 8 Saves
Mike Wuertz 0-1 1.62 ERA
Neil Cotts 0-1 1.98 ERA
Will Ohman 0-1 3.86 ERA
Rock Cherry 1-1 3.24 ERA
Angel Guzman 0-0 2.19 ERA
Scott Eyre 0-1 8.49 ERA

Eyre has been terrible, but other than that... I question how good you want these guys to be.

VoteLynnSwan
05-12-2007, 01:26 AM
to your defense however, these stats seem to be a little misleading, because of what i've seen from them (of the few games that i actually get up here) the bullpen has been nothing specatcular.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 02:01 AM
Cubs in the AL:

Soriano - LF
Theriot - SS
DLee - 1B
ARam - 3B
Floyd - DH
Jones - RF
Barrett - C
DeRosa - 2B
Pie - CF

Definitely better than the Royals.. Don't get too ridiculous.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 02:15 AM
i really question where you come up with that... The bullpen was bad at the beginning of the year, but since has turned it around...

Stats:

Bob Howry 0-2 2.60 ERA
Ryan Dempster 1-1 2.50 ERA 7 for 8 Saves
Mike Wuertz 0-1 1.62 ERA
Neil Cotts 0-1 1.98 ERA
Will Ohman 0-1 3.86 ERA
Rock Cherry 1-1 3.24 ERA
Angel Guzman 0-0 2.19 ERA
Scott Eyre 0-1 8.49 ERA

Eyre has been terrible, but other than that... I question how good you want these guys to be.

Angel Guzman is no longer in the bullpen. Howry has been horrid this season. Screw the ERA. When I've seen him pitch he's been horrible and can't get anyone out. Ohman has bounced from the minors to the majors this season so that ERA is not good at all.

Again, I'm not going by numbers here. I'm going by what I've seen. Eyre has been terrible. Howry has been hit or miss. Cotts couldn't find the strike zone but has since improved. And Dempster has been a bit shaky lately. Add that to Ohman struggling early in the year before he was sent down.

I shouldn't have said it was horrid because it's not, but it's certainly not a stength of that team and can be improved.

Oh and the Cubs are much better than the Royals Smokey and it's not even close. The North Siders have underachieved so far this year but they'll turn it around and I already predicted they'd win the division, but if they don't do that I think they can make the playoffs easily. Guzman looks like he'll be solid as the #5. Marquis, Lilly, and Hill have been great so far. Zambrano will turn it around. With those 5 guys they've got a very nice rotation. Offensively they've got loads of potential. Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Theriot, Barrett, Floyd/Murton, Jones, DeRosa...That's a pretty nice lineup right there that can put up some runs. The concern I still have is that bullpen of theirs. Howry and Eryes need to pick it up, as does Cotts who like I said has been shaky lately. Wuertz, Dempster, and Cherry have been really the only consistent guys in there.

Once they start clicking they're going to be damn good.

bearsfan_51
05-12-2007, 08:10 AM
I warn you now Smokey, if the Indians keep tanking and you talk ****, I'm coming to your house and beating you with a hammer.

IrishBrowns
05-12-2007, 11:29 AM
wow the tribe starting pitching has been awesome, our team in general has struggled this past week, but just wait until our team starts hitting like they are supposed to..

757Dawg
05-12-2007, 11:32 AM
wow the tribe starting pitching has been awesome, our team in general has struggled this past week, but just wait until our team starts hitting like they are supposed to..
Seriously.

We've put together one of the best records in baseball and we really aren't playing that great. We haven't clicked at all yet.

When it finally does come together, watch out.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 12:06 PM
"Ohman has bounced from the minors to the majors this season so that ERA is not good at all."

No, he didn't.. He's been up all year.. Even after Lou said he was throwing 30 foot curveballs.. He was never sent down.

The only roster moves the Cubs have made was Pie for Guzman when Alfonso got hurt.

And then sent down Cedeno for Guzman.

And just recently Pie for Pagan.

Oh yeah, and when Miller went on the DL they brought up Rocky Cherry.

Ohman was never in the minors this year.

& Jacque Jones is quite possibly the worst professional baseball player I have ever seen.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 01:30 PM
"Ohman has bounced from the minors to the majors this season so that ERA is not good at all."

No, he didn't.. He's been up all year.. Even after Lou said he was throwing 30 foot curveballs.. He was never sent down.

The only roster moves the Cubs have made was Pie for Guzman when Alfonso got hurt.

And then sent down Cedeno for Guzman.

And just recently Pie for Pagan.

Oh yeah, and when Miller went on the DL they brought up Rocky Cherry.

Ohman was never in the minors this year.

& Jacque Jones is quite possibly the worst professional baseball player I have ever seen.

I could've sworn Ohman went down. Kasper must've been misinformed because he stated that they sent down Ohman and brought up Cherry. Oh well, my mistake.

Smokey Joe
05-12-2007, 01:38 PM
I warn you now Smokey, if the Indians keep tanking and you talk ****, I'm coming to your house and beating you with a hammer.

4 games out... 4 games out

And that is with the way the Sox have been hitting, which is arguably the worst in the majors.

regoob2
05-12-2007, 01:55 PM
ya when a.j.'s your top hitter with a sensational .252 avg. youve got problems

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 04:03 PM
When Jacque Jones is your CF you have problems.

regoob2
05-12-2007, 04:52 PM
agreed, but the cubs need starting pitching

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 05:08 PM
agreed, but the cubs need starting pitching

SP has been the least of their problems this year.

regoob2
05-12-2007, 05:13 PM
down the stretch it will be

Smokey Joe
05-12-2007, 05:22 PM
ya when a.j.'s your top hitter with a sensational .252 avg. youve got problems
Luckily the pitching has been lights out.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 05:44 PM
4 games out... 4 games out

And that is with the way the Sox have been hitting, which is arguably the worst in the majors.

And against the hardest schedule so far in the AL. If our hitting can get going and our pitching can stay the way it is, um look out.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 05:45 PM
SP has been the least of their problems this year.

Execution on offense (RISP, getting guys over, etc) and the bullpen have been the problems. Starting pitching has been the most impressive part of the Cubs so far this season.

They'll start clicking and when they do IMO they are on paper a damn good ball club that has a chance to do some damage if they reach the playoffs.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 06:28 PM
Scott Eyre sucks donky dick, and so does Howry who just gave up another run.

regoob2
05-12-2007, 06:51 PM
ya howry is a piece of s**t. a nice era of about 30 or so.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 07:31 PM
Scott Eyre sucks donky dick, and so does Howry who just gave up another run.

The sad thing is these guys were automatic last year.

Now they do suck dick.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 09:08 PM
The sad thing is these guys were automatic last year.

Now they do suck dick.

Time to trade Jockstraq for some relief pitching.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-12-2007, 09:32 PM
Pie is hitting .470 in AAA.

He has nothing left to prove in the minors. Time to reward him.

Jones will be gone soon enough.

Smokey Joe
05-12-2007, 10:13 PM
Howry is a little *****. All he did was talk **** about the White Sox because they hurt his feelings. Eyre is a ***** also.

sweetness34
05-12-2007, 11:19 PM
Howry is a little *****. All he did was talk **** about the White Sox because they hurt his feelings. Eyre is a ***** also.

I don't think Cub fans will disagree with this either Smokey.

Smokey Joe
05-12-2007, 11:20 PM
Also, VLS, in that lineup you made, you have to have The Riot in it.

bearsfan_51
05-12-2007, 11:23 PM
I would take Bob Howry back on the Tribe anyday. I loved that dude.

But yes...I don't know when people will learn that you don't spend big money on the bullpen (especially set-ups guys). It's such a crap shoot year to year.

sweetness34
05-13-2007, 12:52 AM
Also, VLS, in that lineup you made, you have to have The Riot in it.

Theriot is a very good player Smokey. Have you seen him at all this year? He's a great contact hitter and he's a stud in the field.

VoteLynnSwan
05-13-2007, 01:07 AM
Theriot is a very good player Smokey. Have you seen him at all this year? He's a great contact hitter and he's a stud in the field.

he's saying that i should have included him in the lineup... I know he's a great player, but i haven't been able to watch much of the Cubs up here, so i didn't know he's been starting.

sweetness34
05-13-2007, 01:10 AM
he's saying that i should have included him in the lineup... I know he's a great player, but i haven't been able to watch much of the Cubs up here, so i didn't know he's been starting.

Whoops my bad. Guess I forgot how to read, ****.

And yes, Theriot is a regular now in the starting lineup as he should be.

VoteLynnSwan
05-13-2007, 01:22 AM
i just wish the guy wasn't already 27 years old...

dabears10
05-14-2007, 12:54 AM
Yeah he's 27, but he can play 2b till he's like 40. He is not predicated on power so his batting would not suffer as much during the later years. But, yes they need to start selling Theriot jerseys ASAP.

awfullyquiet
05-19-2007, 07:14 PM
i think now is the time to say.
dear sox fans.
wtf?
dropped two to the cubs.
i forgot they were playing this afternoon, when i was coming up from my friends in LP up sheffield. and then traffic died. i nearly felt like just putting my car in park where it was and walking the mile home.
but. david 'lights out' aardsma is all yours. the 8th. that was one hell of a finish.

Smokey Joe
05-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Sox should be 2-0 right now against the Cubs. Perfect time for the pen to suck.

awfullyquiet
05-19-2007, 08:41 PM
but the cubs kept it competitive and won close games.
wow.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Sox should be 2-0 right now against the Cubs. Perfect time for the pen to suck.

And the Cubs should have 10 more wins.

No way the Sox are making the playoffs this year.

sweetness34
05-19-2007, 11:26 PM
And the Cubs should have 10 more wins.

No way the Sox are making the playoffs this year.

I disagree. The pitching up to this series has been stellar, and once we get Pods and Thome back that'll help with the offense. Anything can happen, especially with how competative our division is. You just never know in baseball.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2007, 11:37 PM
I disagree. The pitching up to this series has been stellar, and once we get Pods and Thome back that'll help with the offense. Anything can happen, especially with how competative our division is. You just never know in baseball.

Detroit and Cleveland's pitching has been just as good (except for freaking Sowers who is going back to Buffalo whenever Westbrook is healthy).

I guess I just don't buy it because I always pegged the White Sox as the 4th team (which they would be if Mauer didn't go down). I'm just a little suprised by the quality of the pitching, which I question if it will be able to hold even if the hitting does come around.

sweetness34
05-20-2007, 12:09 AM
Detroit and Cleveland's pitching has been just as good (except for freaking Sowers who is going back to Buffalo whenever Westbrook is healthy).

I guess I just don't buy it because I always pegged the White Sox as the 4th team (which they would be if Mauer didn't go down). I'm just a little suprised by the quality of the pitching, which I question if it will be able to hold even if the hitting does come around.

Eh, we've been able to stay afloat without our leadoff hitter and our best power hitter. Our win pct. drops drastically when Pods isn't in the lineup. It goes from about .600 to around .500. And we miss Thome's power in the middle of the lineup without a doubt.

You have to play with the cards you're dealt, and we've done that. Buerhle has been great so far, Contreras has calmed down a bit, Vasquez apart from today has been reliable, Garland has pitched well even though his record doesn't indicate it, and Danks has been very consistent so far. If the kid could actually get some run support he could be unbeaten, or close to it.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-20-2007, 12:41 AM
No one in the lineup is hitting over .300 lol.

Erstad & Iguchi are the only ones hitting over .250 & they both just barely are.

When Erstad is your leadoff hitter you have problems.. It's like Ozzie is trying not to score runs.

Should have never traded Chris Young.

I don't see the White Sox even sniffing the playoffs this year. They don't seem to have that swagger they've had in recent years.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 02:31 AM
If the offense wakes up, and the bullpen gets their heads out of their asses, the Sox should have no problem making the playoffs, if the starting pitching continues to deal.

When the Sox are a over .500 with the second toughest schedule in baseball with the way the offense has been hitting, that tells you something. Dye is coming around, and we all know PK isn't a 190 hitter. Iguchi is coming around, and that comment you made about Erstad is erroneous. In the leadoff spot this year, Erstad has put up some of the best numbers. And before his injury, Thome was actually the best offensive player in baseball statistically...

dabears10
05-20-2007, 02:44 AM
If the offense wakes up, and the bullpen gets their heads out of their asses, the Sox should have no problem making the playoffs, if the starting pitching continues to deal.

When the Sox are a over .500 with the second toughest schedule in baseball with the way the offense has been hitting, that tells you something. Dye is coming around, and we all know PK isn't a 190 hitter. Iguchi is coming around, and that comment you made about Erstad is erroneous. In the leadoff spot this year, Erstad has put up some of the best numbers. And before his injury, Thome was actually the best offensive player in baseball statistically...

Wait, so if every player plays well, and does there job better than the other team, they will win games. Take it from a life long Cubs fan, when you start talking in terms of "well, if only our hitters came through and our bullpen was better while the starters keep playing well we could win." It's the last step before accepting failure.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 02:50 AM
These are completely different. The White Sox are full of under achievers right now. MacDougal, Konerko, Crede, Iguchi, Dye, etc. have always been good players, but have just gotten piss-poor starts to the season. No one would have said that all those players would suck ass before the season. Maybe 1 or 2, but not all of them.

The Cubs have always been filled with players who never really did anything to warrant all those sayings of them winning the world series every year.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 02:56 AM
The White Sox are full of "underachievers" in part because you think the White Sox are better than they are. This isn't 2005 anymore.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 10:27 AM
So you knew all along that Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, Tadahito Iguchi, Joe Crede, and A.J. Pierzynski were all sub .200 hitters? And predicted that they would bat below .250 this season? Give me a ******* break.

Paul Konerko is one of the best hitters in the league off to a ****** start. And Dye, Iguchi, and Pierzynski have always been good hitters. Crede you could make a case for, never a fan of his.

And do you really think MacDougal will be worthless the rest of the season? He's got great stuff, but just off to a bad start.

Like I said earlier, give me a ******* break. The age factor doesn't work here either, because 1 year isn't going to make a difference, or one big enough like this.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 10:28 AM
Also, like I told you a month ago, Sowers sucks.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 11:31 AM
So you knew all along that Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, Tadahito Iguchi, Joe Crede, and A.J. Pierzynski were all sub .200 hitters? And predicted that they would bat below .250 this season? Give me a ******* break.

Paul Konerko is one of the best hitters in the league off to a ****** start. And Dye, Iguchi, and Pierzynski have always been good hitters. Crede you could make a case for, never a fan of his.

And do you really think MacDougal will be worthless the rest of the season? He's got great stuff, but just off to a bad start.

Like I said earlier, give me a ******* break. The age factor doesn't work here either, because 1 year isn't going to make a difference, or one big enough like this.
It's just really lame and predictable that you're saying "well the hitting isn't what it should be" but then saying that your pitching, which by all accounts should be worse than it is, will stay the same. Things change, some things get worse, some get better, and with an old team with a ****** farm system like the Sox it's more likely to get worse.

And you didn't know a damn thing about Sowers. He's just 23 years old and is struggling this year, which is why he'll be sent back down as soon as Westbrook comes up. He's still a good prospect and has shown that he can pitch very well in the majors. I'd rather one player on my team be struggling than my entire team sucking ass.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 12:05 PM
If you recall, I saying all year that the pitching will be good. But no one listened to me. Just ask Sweetness if you don't believe me. And if you are trying to say that Paul Konerko has degressed from a .300+ hitter to a .190 hitter, you are out of your ******* mind. 1 year doesn't change all of that.

Prediction, once Thome comes back tomorrow, the White Sox offense will go on a tear.

And Sowers does suck. He doesn't have one good pitch, and it is showing. He might have succeeded in the lower levels, but a couple times through the league, he gets rocked.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 12:09 PM
If you recall, I saying all year that the pitching will be good. But no one listened to me. Just ask Sweetness if you don't believe me. And if you are trying to say that Paul Konerko has degressed from a .300+ hitter to a .190 hitter, you are out of your ******* mind. 1 year doesn't change all of that.

Prediction, once Thome comes back tomorrow, the White Sox offense will go on a tear.

And Sowers does suck. He doesn't have one good pitch, and it is showing. He might have succeeded in the lower levels, but a couple times through the league, he gets rocked.
You've been saying that everything would be good. You think your farm system is good. Eventually a blind squirrel finds a nut.

And Sowers was excellent in the majors last year, so there's goes that theory. You watched one game on him and now you're the expert. Please.

I'm sure the Sox bats will heat up a bit, they can't get any worse, and maybe they'll even tighten the gap a bit, but they are at best the 3rd best team in the division and that's only because the Twins can't stay healthy (Liriano, Mauer). You want to talk about a team with real injury excuses, look at them. The White Sox just aren't very good. It's not the last 40 games that have proven that to me, it's been clear since the 2nd half of 2006 that they aren't the same team they were in 2005.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 12:13 PM
Last year was Sowers first time through the league. Lots of pitchers succeed their first time through. But his 2nd and 3rd times through won't be so kind to him, as you can see.

Also, the White Sox do have a pretty good farm. They have a lot of good pitching prospects: Russell, Gonzalez, Egbert, De Los Santos, and several others. They are lacking offensive prospects, but they have guys like: Carter, Cunningham, Fields (top 50 MLB prospect), Lucy, and 1 or 2 more promising ones.

sweetness34
05-20-2007, 01:02 PM
Last year was Sowers first time through the league. Lots of pitchers succeed their first time through. But his 2nd and 3rd times through won't be so kind to him, as you can see.

Also, the White Sox do have a pretty good farm. They have a lot of good pitching prospects: Russell, Gonzalez, Egbert, De Los Santos, and several others. They are lacking offensive prospects, but they have guys like: Carter, Cunningham, Fields (top 50 MLB prospect), Lucy, and 1 or 2 more promising ones.

Um Sweeney Smokey, forgot about him. He'll be a stud in the majors.

You also forgot to add Broadway and McCulloch in there as pitching prospects, both who whom look to be in our rotation in the near future.

Oh and btw, Chris Young is really tearing it up. .268 average, yikes haha just kiddin. He's a darn good prospect. Javy has been throwing the ball pretty darn good this year and I don't think it was as bad of a trade as a lot of people think it was. I also said the Sox pitching was going to be pretty darn good this season, not great but good. Our pitching was horrid last year and we still won 90 games.

Oh and BUST, Erstad is the ony leadoff hitter we have right now with Pods out. It's either him or Ozuna. You have to put out a lineup with the players you have. The hitting will come around and that'll help compensate for if the pitching goes through a rough patch here and there.

Baseball is a funny sport. Anything can happen and yes I believe we can make the playoffs without question.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-20-2007, 01:22 PM
Konerko is not one of the best hitters in the league.

He's a good hitter. But not even close to being one of the best.

sweetness34
05-20-2007, 01:42 PM
Konerko is not one of the best hitters in the league.

He's a good hitter. But not even close to being one of the best.

I'll agree with that. He's not one of the best, but he's still a good one who's better than his .190 average.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 02:08 PM
Konerko is not one of the best hitters in the league.

He's a good hitter. But not even close to being one of the best.
No, PK is one of the best hitters in baseball right now. Top 10-20.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 02:08 PM
JD heating up in the cold!

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 02:14 PM
No, PK is one of the best hitters in baseball right now. Top 10-20.
I don't disagree, but I wouldn't consider 10-20 "one of the best".

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Here, I'll take a stab.

1)Barry Bonds
2)Vlad Guerrero
3)A-Rod
4)David Ortiz
5)Travis Hafner
6)Alburt Pujols
7)Ryan Howard
8)Manny Ramirez
9)Chipper Jones
10)Magglio Ordonez
11)Jim Thome
12)Miguel Cabrera
13)Carlos Beltran
14)Derek Lee
15)Justin Morneau
16)Lance Berkman
17)Todd Helton
18)Matt Holliday
19)Ken Griffey Jr.
20)Joe Mauer

I'd probably put Konerko somewhere close outside that, but he's not top 20. Hell, I've got him 3rd on the White Sox alone.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-20-2007, 02:53 PM
Here, I'll take a stab.

1)Barry Bonds
2)Vlad Guerrero
3)A-Rod
4)David Ortiz
5)Travis Hafner
6)Alburt Pujols
7)Ryan Howard
8)Manny Ramirez
9)Chipper Jones
10)Magglio Ordonez
11)Jim Thome
12)Miguel Cabrera
13)Carlos Beltran
14)Derek Lee
15)Justin Morneau
16)Lance Berkman
17)Todd Helton
18)Jermaine Dye
19)Ken Griffey Jr.
20)Joe Mauer

I'd probably put Konerko somewhere close outside that, but he's not top 20. Hell, I've got him 3rd on the White Sox alone.

Soriano, Aramis Ramirez, Hanley Ramirez, Andruw Jones, Holliday, Sizemore, Jeter, Utley, Rollins, Sheffield, Jose Reyes, lol.. The list goes on and on.

Konerko is a good hitter, but not even remotely close to being one of the best.

sweetness34
05-20-2007, 03:45 PM
Here, I'll take a stab.

1)Barry Bonds
2)Vlad Guerrero
3)A-Rod
4)David Ortiz
5)Travis Hafner
6)Alburt Pujols
7)Ryan Howard
8)Manny Ramirez
9)Chipper Jones
10)Magglio Ordonez
11)Jim Thome
12)Miguel Cabrera
13)Carlos Beltran
14)Derek Lee
15)Justin Morneau
16)Lance Berkman
17)Todd Helton
18)Jermaine Dye
19)Ken Griffey Jr.
20)Joe Mauer

I'd probably put Konerko somewhere close outside that, but he's not top 20. Hell, I've got him 3rd on the White Sox alone.

If we're talking about pure hitting, Derek Lee should be higher IMO. The guy is leading the league in batting average right now, this after being out for what 2 weeks now with a bad neck. He was the best hitter two years ago, he was doing pretty darn well last year before he got hurt, and right now he's batting right at .400 with a .394 average. As a pure "hitter" I think right now DLee is one of the best. Top 10 IMO. His power numbers have gone down a bit but he's getting on base pretty much every game. He still has the power to hit 30 HR's easily.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 03:57 PM
Konerko. Consistanly hits .280-.300, draws around 80 walks, .380 OBP, .500 SLG, 300+ TB, 30-40 homers, and 100 RBI's. And he does strike out 100x, but not an obscene amount like players such as Soriano.

Not a lot of players can consistently put up numbers like that.

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Also, I am a big JD fan, but how does one good season make him a top 20 hitter? That was a career year.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 04:14 PM
Konerko. Consistanly hits .280-.300, draws around 80 walks, .380 OBP, .500 SLG, 300+ TB, 30-40 homers, and 100 RBI's. And he does strike out 100x, but not an obscene amount like players such as Soriano.

Not a lot of players can consistently put up numbers like that.
Find me more than 5 players on that list that Konerko is a better hitter than in today's game.

And you're right about Dye. I just put him on there so there was two White Sox and you could be happy. Replace him with Matt Holliday. There, one White Sox.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 04:18 PM
If we're talking about pure hitting, Derek Lee should be higher IMO. The guy is leading the league in batting average right now, this after being out for what 2 weeks now with a bad neck. He was the best hitter two years ago, he was doing pretty darn well last year before he got hurt, and right now he's batting right at .400 with a .394 average. As a pure "hitter" I think right now DLee is one of the best. Top 10 IMO. His power numbers have gone down a bit but he's getting on base pretty much every game. He still has the power to hit 30 HR's easily.
If that's the case his OPS would be a lot higher than it is. He's a good hitter for average but if you factor in power, walk to strikeout ratio, etc, I can't put him above anybody in my top 10 except for maybe Magglio. I had him higher initially but his OPS is pretty low for a player with such a high average.

sweetness34
05-20-2007, 05:22 PM
If that's the case his OPS would be a lot higher than it is. He's a good hitter for average but if you factor in power, walk to strikeout ratio, etc, I can't put him above anybody in my top 10 except for maybe Magglio. I had him higher initially but his OPS is pretty low for a player with such a high average.

Yea I guess I can agree with that, as a pure "hitter" he's one of the best in the league. His power numbers are unusually low for him, I think he has like 2 or 3 homers this year.

DLee also for some reason has a very high walk/strikeout ratio this season. I watch him pretty much every day and I didn't think it was that scewed. He does have a very high OBP though at .466.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-20-2007, 05:39 PM
If we're talking about hitters in the prime right now DLee is undoubtely a top 10 hitter.

If we're talking about careers than okay. But right now he is easily a top 10 hitter in baseball.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 05:41 PM
If we're talking about hitters in the prime right now DLee is undoubtely a top 10 hitter.

If we're talking about careers than okay. But right now he is easily a top 10 hitter in baseball.
It's a bit of both. I did a composit picture of players over the last 2-3 years, mixed in a little career numbers, projected a bit, and gave a little more emphasis on this year. Obviously I don't think Thome or Bonds will be top 15 guys 3 years from now, but they currently are.

I just don't see how Lee is better than anyone in the top 10 other than maybe Ordonez. Manny? Ortiz? A-Rod? Hafner? Pujols? I don't see it.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
05-20-2007, 06:22 PM
Hes definitely a better hitter than Magglio. I think Magglio is way too high on your list. But thats just my opinion.

And I dont think Griffey is a top 20 hitter in baseball right now. Hes not the same hitter. I also think Miggy should be higher. I would drop Vlad a few spots as well. I would put ARod #2 & Hafner #3 w/ Vlad at #5.

And with how bad Howard has been this year I think you would have to drop him down a few spots.

But the list is pretty solid other than that.. It just depends on your opinion really.. I'm obviously a Cubs fan so might be a little bias but I think a lot of people would tell you Lee is a top 10 hitter in baseball right now. His lack of power this season has to do with the weather I expect his power #s to improve quite a bit in the 2nd half.

bearsfan_51
05-20-2007, 08:04 PM
I love Ken Griffey Jr. That's a personally addition on my part. He could have saved baseball from what it is today had he not gotten hurt so much. Easily the most likeable athlete since Michael Jordan.

That being said, he's still a good hitter, he's just off the radar in Cincinnatti

Smokey Joe
05-20-2007, 08:19 PM
If Griffey hadn't been off injured these past 6-7 years, he'd probably be in the 700 club right not. With that being said, I love Griffey as well. He was by far my favorite player growing up.

Also, when he has been healthy, he has been still a top hitter. Like this season, he is having a very good season.

TitleTown088
05-30-2007, 03:48 PM
http://www.wfrfire.com/website/misc/tools/broom_big.jpg

BUSTKUNTLAWL
06-01-2007, 03:26 PM
Big Z & Michael Barrett fighting in the dugout.

bearsfan_51
06-01-2007, 03:42 PM
Isn't it great when you say something point blank and then it comes true?

Last year calling out Packers fans for being silly homers and putting a guarantee that the Bears would win the North.

And now calling out the White Sox for the overrated, over-the-hill, sub .500 team that they are. Ahh....sweet redemption.

You can come admit you were wrong and I was right anytime you want Smokey. I'll be waiting....:)

Smokey Joe
06-01-2007, 05:27 PM
Chicago baseball in general this year is a crap-shoot... Oh well, at least there is the Kane-County Cougars!

bearsfan_51
06-01-2007, 05:52 PM
http://www.softcom.net/users/abingham/undertaker.jpg

Paul Bearer and The Undertaker say that the White Sox can Rest.......In........*long dramatic pause*.....Peace.

awfullyquiet
07-06-2007, 03:35 AM
i like how this gets quiet when the sox really start sucking.
i like the north side.
woot.
get rid of a bad apple (barrett), have the best june in the NL.

TitleTown088
07-07-2007, 11:53 AM
Twins win............ Twice!

Smokey Joe
07-07-2007, 04:17 PM
Twins win nothing in the postseason though... OUCH!

How does it feel to watch your team make it to the playoffs year in and out, and end up sucking and getting swept in the DS?

sweetness34
07-07-2007, 05:47 PM
Twins win............ Twice!

Twins lose and get dominated by Marky Mark tonight, biotch.

I'm sure people expected the Sox to fall off a bit this year, but there is no way in hell you expected them to play this bad. Not with the hitting they have and not with the pitching. Yes a part of me thought they'd struggle, but not this bad.

iowatreat54
07-07-2007, 06:30 PM
Twins win nothing in the postseason though... OUCH!

How does it feel to watch your team make it to the playoffs year in and out, and end up sucking and getting swept in the DS?

yea they have as many WS wins as the Sox in the last 100 years...I wouldn't be bragging

and thats 1 more than the Cubs so I'll shut up now :(

iowatreat54
07-07-2007, 09:34 PM
you know...the further the whole buehrle situation goes, the more and more the Sox look like complete dicks...it seems that he really wants to stay in Chicago and is giving the Sox about a 20-25 million hometown discount, but the Sox front office are being completely unreasonable with terms of the contract...I hope he just leaves during FA and screws them...

awfullyquiet
07-07-2007, 09:39 PM
Twins win............ Twice!

i was there.
my friend got back from korea on wednesday, and we went to a sox game just because.

i left sometime when it was 22-10 because i was laughing so hard.

at least were not as bad as the nationals like the sox are to the royals.

TitleTown088
07-07-2007, 11:49 PM
Twins win nothing in the postseason though... OUCH!

How does it feel to watch your team make it to the playoffs year in and out, and end up sucking and getting swept in the DS?

Umm.... Atleased the Twins make the postseason?


And sweetness that's 2-1 Twins... I think they did better in the series... Biotch.

Smokey Joe
07-08-2007, 01:10 AM
Umm.... Atleased the Twins make the postseason?


And sweetness that's 2-1 Twins... I think they did better in the series... Biotch.
whats the point if you get your asses handed to you each and every time?

sweetness34
07-08-2007, 10:02 AM
Umm.... Atleased the Twins make the postseason?


And sweetness that's 2-1 Twins... I think they did better in the series... Biotch.

Too bad you can't get the job done.

TitleTown088
07-08-2007, 04:01 PM
whats the point if you get your asses handed to you each and every time?

Hmm.... last time I checked the Twins have won more world series in my lifetime than the Sox. When was the sox last win prior to 2005, 1918? That is , if you like to use past refrences instead of the present. Nice try though burly bear.

sweetness34
07-08-2007, 05:09 PM
Hmm.... last time I checked the Twins have won more world series in my lifetime than the Sox. When was the sox last win prior to 2005, 1918? That is , if you like to use past refrences instead of the present. Nice try though burly bear.

Good choke job in the series. Too bad you can't but split against a pathetic team like us, hahahahaha.

TitleTown088
07-08-2007, 06:26 PM
Good choke job in the series. Too bad you can't but split against a pathetic team like us, hahahahaha.

Yeah, because they Twins are such a powerhouse team this year they shouldn't ever split a series with a divisional team.........

sweetness34
07-08-2007, 06:33 PM
Yeah, because they Twins are such a powerhouse team this year they shouldn't ever split a series with a divisional team.........

You should be able to take at least 3 against the White Sox, they're that bad right now. Oh and I just like giving you ****.

bearsfan_51
07-09-2007, 12:28 AM
Wow you guys are ***....haha

Nice job resigning Buerhle. It's a lot of money but he deserves it. The years are really nice too. The WS haven't done much good this year but that was a smart move.

RockJock07
07-09-2007, 01:46 AM
God I hope Kenny trades Dye and Contreras, and while he's at it, why not Uribe too.

The Twins might not win anything but one thing I've learned by being a White Sox fan, respect the Twins. They play the game the right way and have a steller manager. They won't make the playoffs this year, but next year look out, the AL central will also be stronger next year.

sweetness34
07-09-2007, 02:04 PM
Wow you guys are ***....haha

Nice job resigning Buerhle. It's a lot of money but he deserves it. The years are really nice too. The WS haven't done much good this year but that was a smart move.

He's well worth it though. One of the best lefties in the game right now and a fan favorite.

princefielder28
07-14-2007, 10:08 PM
Cubs fan interested????
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11220

awfullyquiet
08-11-2007, 12:19 AM
Podsednik as a cub?

eerie.

awfullyquiet
03-05-2008, 01:00 PM
Just because this hasn't gotten any love.

Swisher? Leadoff? Really? Huh? Soxies. WTF?

regoob2
03-05-2008, 01:07 PM
Cubs are looking solid so far. I hope D.Lee can rebound and have a better year than last. I we can grab Brian Roberts I would be so happy.

BeerBaron
03-05-2008, 01:43 PM
what is this.....stickball, diamond running thread doing here?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml

iowatreat54
03-05-2008, 03:46 PM
Cubs are looking solid so far. I hope D.Lee can rebound and have a better year than last. I we can grab Brian Roberts I would be so happy.

as long as we somehow don't give up Pie or Marshall idc...I don't understand why people think we need Roberts, sure he would be a true lead off spot, but why remove Alfi from his best batting position? You can't guarantee that his numbers will be that much better while batting lower in the order because he has proven leadoff is his most productive spot

sweetness34
03-05-2008, 05:47 PM
Leadoff is not Soriano's best batting slot. He's not a leadoff hitter, he's a run producer that swings for the fences to much to be batting #1.

iowatreat54
03-05-2008, 06:11 PM
Leadoff is not Soriano's best batting slot. He's not a leadoff hitter, he's a run producer that swings for the fences to much to be batting #1.

actually, statistically it is his best batting position...he has the best avg. while batting leadoff, and averages more HRs and RBIs at that position than any other...he may not be viewed as a "true" leadoff hitter, but that is his best statistical spot by far...believe me, I've wanted to bat Soriano at least 3rd for the past 1.5 years, but I can't argue with production

sweetness34
03-05-2008, 07:25 PM
Roberts>>>Soriano in the leadoff slot.

iowatreat54
03-05-2008, 07:45 PM
Roberts>>>Soriano in the leadoff slot.

depends on what you mean, as far as statistical production, no...as for getting on base, yes...I want a true leadoff hitter, trust me, it's not like I hate Roberts, I just don't wanna give up a ton for him and since we prolly have to, then I'd rather not have him

regoob2
03-05-2008, 08:17 PM
I think/hope they would bat Roberts in the 2 hole to break up all the right handed hitters. They were talking about batting Fukudome in the 4 spot spot. I would like to see
1. Soriano
2. Roberts
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Fukudome

I would give us a lot more flexibility with lefty/righty match ups.

iowatreat54
03-05-2008, 08:25 PM
I think/hope they would bat Roberts in the 2 hole to break up all the right handed hitters. They were talking about batting Fukudome in the 4 spot spot. I would like to see
1. Soriano
2. Roberts
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Fukudome

I would give us a lot more flexibility with lefty/righty match ups.

if we got roberts we would put him leadoff no matter what, that's why we want him...I think it would be more like...
1. roberts
2. lee?
3. fukudome
4. ramirez
5. soriano

I don't think they would put lee, ramirez, and soriano 3 in a row because we got fukudome for a left handed bat in the middle...but they might go 1. roberts 2. lee/soriano 3. soriano/lee 4. ramirez 5. fukudome

regoob2
03-05-2008, 09:48 PM
I doubt Soriano would hit 5th in any lineup. That lineup doesnt make a ton of sense.

iowatreat54
03-05-2008, 11:58 PM
I doubt Soriano would hit 5th in any lineup. That lineup doesnt make a ton of sense.

oh I know, I was just trying to spread it out...if we got Roberts, there is no way he doesn't bat leadoff is what I was getting at...Soriano would prolly bat 2nd or 3rd

regoob2
03-06-2008, 10:21 AM
yeah if Roberts was lead off I'd rather lee hit 2nd, soriano 3rd, Fukudome and ramirez 4th or 5th depending on the pitcher. I'm not sure about Fukudome until I see him actually play though. I don't want him in the heart of the line-up until he has earned it.

VoteLynnSwan
03-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Lee wouldn't bat 2nd... if we got Roberts, which would be a terrible move...

1. Soriano
2. Roberts
3. Fukudome
4. Lee
5. Ramirez
6. Theriot
7. Soto
8. Pie

Roberts would make DeRosa a utility player, which would then limit Pie's playing time, which is simply not a good move.

Alos, Fukudome WILL be in the heart of the line-up because he is the only lefty we have capable of hitting in the middle. Plus that fat contract.

Soriano is the leadoff hitter, plain and simple, you may not like it, but that's where he's going to be.

regoob2
03-06-2008, 10:50 AM
Why would Fukudome hit 3rd? Lee would be perfect there and Fukudome 4th. Roberts being a switch hitter I would hope would hit 2nd. Then the righty lee and lefty fukudome followed by Aramis righty.

As for Pie I'm not sold on him being the starter. He should have a limited role until he proves he can hit. He went hot and cold last year with the majority being cold. He's a great prospect but hasn't earned everyday playing time.

dabears10
03-06-2008, 11:32 AM
Why would Fukudome hit 3rd? Lee would be perfect there and Fukudome 4th. Roberts being a switch hitter I would hope would hit 2nd. Then the righty lee and lefty fukudome followed by Aramis righty.

As for Pie I'm not sold on him being the starter. He should have a limited role until he proves he can hit. He went hot and cold last year with the majority being cold. He's a great prospect but hasn't earned everyday playing time.

Well the only other person to play center is Sam Fuld. We don't really have other people to play it. Soriano has proved it's not his position and we promised Fukudome not to move him. Every team has question marks, the fact our Center Fielder is not the greatest hitter as a weakness is not too bad. He is great defensively and provides speed on the base paths. I'm not sure how you would want in Center.

I think the reason we get Roberts is to lead-off. If we do not get Roberts I want to try DeRosa at the two spot behind Soriano.

regoob2
03-06-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't think DeRosa should hit 2nd. he's a nice player but if we don't get Roberts I would actually like to see Lee hit 2nd, fukudome 3rd and Ramirez 4th. Lee is a great contact hitter but he hasn't proven he can consistently hit for power and he runs fairly well.

VoteLynnSwan
03-06-2008, 11:41 AM
without Roberts, it'd be Theriot batting second

Pie doesn't NEED to hit... we're not expecting him to be a major contributor, and anything we get out of him is great. He will likely be hitting 7th or 8th, and we don't need a huge bat in that position. As long as Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukudome produce what they should... it doesn't matter if we have one weak link in a key defensive position.

iowatreat54
03-06-2008, 12:01 PM
I really feel that if we get Roberts, we will push DeRosa to RF unless Pie has an amazing spring, and then put Fukudome in CF...and I will say this again, if we get Roberts he will bat leadoff without question, the whole reason we are getting him is so that we have a true leadoff hitter...the only thing that might happen would be in the middle of the season if Soriano is blowing we may move him back to leadoff, but would be very unlikely imo...the only reason I had Lee 2nd in that lineup is because A. I didn't want our only lefties batting 1st 2nd and 8th vs. right handed pitching and B. Lee has a very good avg. and OBP, so I would be willing to see him bat 2nd in front of Soriano or Fukudome

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 06:36 PM
The cubs don't need roberts.
Period.

1. Theriot. Speed. Decent OBP. Will get better this year. Eventually i'd see him batting in the 2-3 spot. Isn't as aggressive as would like. Patterson will eventually rise up for this spot, but he needs to make like the impossible leap in 3 easy steps. Theriot will move down in the order when soriano becomes 'good to go'.
2. Fukudome. Like it. Contact. Good Fastball Hitter. More patience than any cubs (without taking a regular season at bat, i'd say he'll get almost 70 walks this year)
3. Lee. Plays the 3 hole well.
4. ARam. If it ain't broke. dont' fix it. Aram hit well here.
5. Soriano. I don't like it here. But. I like it better than everywhere else. Knack for hitting in RBI's. i always thought he should be dropped down. and 5 seems right, but oh so weird.
6. Soto. Why not? Power hitter. Will bat .250. 20hr. Lefty. Seems right. No Pun.
7. Pie. Here's the issue. If he wasn't gonna have 300 k's and bat .215. i'd say. why not, bat him first. but he will. and for starting the season. this is the start of the season. eventually i'd like to see him bat 2. But not yet.
8. Derosa. I've heard pieces of people saying 'derosa should bat leadoff', Grudz did in 03, but this was also a different lineup. speed isn't negligible at this time. with fukudome, i wouldn't have anyone but theriot at one right now.
9. Zambrano and Marquis would move up to the 8th spot and give pie the 9th spot. Hell. we should just turn Marquis into a rick ankiel. what's with the cards and pitchers who could turn into batting machines.

top to bottom. this could be a decent lineup. with the cubs pitching? bah.

VoteLynnSwan
03-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Well Soto is a right handed hitter...

and the pitcher WILL bat 9th... I remember Lou saying something about not wanting to put a pitcher over a hitter in the order

so...

1. Theriot (Soriano likely takes over when he gets healthy)
2. Soriano (Lou won't put him lower in the lineup, although he should be)
3. Lee
4. Fukudome (I'd prefer him 2nd, but whatcha gonna do?)
5. Ramirez
6. DeRosa
7. Soto
8. Pie
9. Pitcher

i think that's as likely a lineup as you'll see...

regoob2
03-15-2008, 06:44 PM
The cubs don't need roberts.
Period.

1. Theriot. Speed. Decent OBP. Will get better this year. Eventually i'd see him batting in the 2-3 spot. Isn't as aggressive as would like. Patterson will eventually rise up for this spot, but he needs to make like the impossible leap in 3 easy steps. Theriot will move down in the order when soriano becomes 'good to go'.
2. Fukudome. Like it. Contact. Good Fastball Hitter. More patience than any cubs (without taking a regular season at bat, i'd say he'll get almost 70 walks this year)
3. Lee. Plays the 3 hole well.
4. ARam. If it ain't broke. dont' fix it. Aram hit well here.
5. Soriano. I don't like it here. But. I like it better than everywhere else. Knack for hitting in RBI's. i always thought he should be dropped down. and 5 seems right, but oh so weird.
6. Soto. Why not? Power hitter. Will bat .250. 20hr. Lefty. Seems right. No Pun.
7. Pie. Here's the issue. If he wasn't gonna have 300 k's and bat .215. i'd say. why not, bat him first. but he will. and for starting the season. this is the start of the season. eventually i'd like to see him bat 2. But not yet.
8. Derosa. I've heard pieces of people saying 'derosa should bat leadoff', Grudz did in 03, but this was also a different lineup. speed isn't negligible at this time. with fukudome, i wouldn't have anyone but theriot at one right now.
9. Zambrano and Marquis would move up to the 8th spot and give pie the 9th spot. Hell. we should just turn Marquis into a rick ankiel. what's with the cards and pitchers who could turn into batting machines.

top to bottom. this could be a decent lineup. with the cubs pitching? bah.Why would theriot bat first and soriano 5th and derosa 8th?

iowatreat54
03-15-2008, 07:05 PM
Well Soto is a right handed hitter...

and the pitcher WILL bat 9th... I remember Lou saying something about not wanting to put a pitcher over a hitter in the order

so...

1. Theriot (Soriano likely takes over when he gets healthy)
2. Soriano (Lou won't put him lower in the lineup, although he should be)
3. Lee
4. Fukudome (I'd prefer him 2nd, but whatcha gonna do?)
5. Ramirez
6. DeRosa
7. Soto
8. Pie
9. Pitcher

i think that's as likely a lineup as you'll see...

Soriano will bat leadoff, there's really no other likely scenario

how I would do it if I wanted to set up a batting order:

1. Theriot
2. Fukudome
3. Soriano
4. Ramirez
5. Lee
6. DeRosa
7. Soto
8. Pie
9. Pitcher

I've wanted to bat Theriot leadoff since last year, I think his avg. and OBP will improve this year, and he is a pretty patient hitter

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 07:29 PM
1. Theriot (Soriano likely takes over when he gets healthy)
2. Soriano (Lou won't put him lower in the lineup, although he should be)



Soriano isn't bad at the two spot if pitchers keep feeding him fastballs. Theriot needs to get on base to force pitchers to throw said fastballs. Soriano needs to be a more rounded hitter to be good in the 2 spot. he isn't. he won't bunt. he's not a '2' hitter. he won't hit to all fields.

Soto is a righty. I'm mildy ********. Pie and **** you do me are the only lefties who'll see a regular spot in the order.

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 07:44 PM
Why would theriot bat first and soriano 5th and derosa 8th?

Theriot. Good Speed. Decent Hitting.
Soriano. RBIs. Pure and simple. He can clean up.
DeRosa. i don't like Derosa in the 8th. i don't. but. where else do you put him? 1st? 2nd? You put derosa in the 2, it screws up thing. derosa can go 1 or 8. imo. i'd believe theriot would be the better leadoff hitter.

eventually, around the ASG, i'd see

1. soriano
2. theriot
3. lee
4. aram
5. fukudome
6. soto
7. derosa
8. pie.

VLS? why fukudome in the 4th?

regoob2
03-15-2008, 08:19 PM
I think theriot is the best pure leadoff hitter we have but I dont think Soriano should hit 5th. Id prefer Soriano hitting 2nd or 3rd.

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 08:32 PM
I think theriot is the best pure leadoff hitter we have but I dont think Soriano should hit 5th. Id prefer Soriano hitting 2nd or 3rd.

what do you look for a 2 or 3 spot hitter?

regoob2
03-15-2008, 08:37 PM
I don't think our lineup has a good balance to it at all. Way to many right handed hitters. I hope we bring in Roberts.

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 08:44 PM
I don't think our lineup has a good balance to it at all. Way to many right handed hitters. I hope we bring in Roberts.

Well. it is what it is.

With what it is, i don't think soriano belongs in the 2 or 3.

iowatreat54
03-15-2008, 08:53 PM
Well. it is what it is.

With what it is, i don't think soriano belongs in the 2 or 3.

well he definitely shouldn't be a 2, but with Ramirez and Lee right behind him, he has great protection to bat 3rd...if he bats 5th, he has absolutely no protection, so he will see less fastballs and pitchers can pitch around him...he needs to bat 1st because he will not get pitched around and see plenty of fastballs, 3rd or 4th because of protection...he has too low of an OBP and strikes out too much to bat 2nd, and after 4th he really has no protection

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 09:03 PM
well he definitely shouldn't be a 2, but with Ramirez and Lee right behind him, he has great protection to bat 3rd...if he bats 5th, he has absolutely no protection, so he will see less fastballs and pitchers can pitch around him...he needs to bat 1st because he will not get pitched around and see plenty of fastballs, 3rd or 4th because of protection...he has too low of an OBP and strikes out too much to bat 2nd, and after 4th he really has no protection

okay. put him at 3rd? what would you do with lee? i think it's really who's more valuble in what spot?

iowatreat54
03-15-2008, 09:10 PM
okay. put him at 3rd? what would you do with lee? i think it's really who's more valuble in what spot?

put lee 4th or 5th...hell, put him 2nd if you want...Lee doesn't need protection behind him, he's a patient hitter that will get on base and can drive in runs...personally, I would rather have an RBI producer/more dangerous bat 3rd and 4th...you look at it like who is more valuable where, but putting Soriano 5th basically takes away all of his strengths as a hitter

regoob2
03-15-2008, 09:21 PM
Lee would probably be better hitting 2nd cause hes a solid contact hitter who doesnt have a ton of power. Other than that one year he never had huge HR numbers. I think we should shuffle the lineup and see who does what wear for a while.

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 09:27 PM
put lee 4th or 5th...hell, put him 2nd if you want...Lee doesn't need protection behind him, he's a patient hitter that will get on base and can drive in runs...personally, I would rather have an RBI producer/more dangerous bat 3rd and 4th...you look at it like who is more valuable where, but putting Soriano 5th basically takes away all of his strengths as a hitter

the 5 hole is not an RBI production spot?

VoteLynnSwan
03-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Soriano isn't bad at the two spot if pitchers keep feeding him fastballs. Theriot needs to get on base to force pitchers to throw said fastballs. Soriano needs to be a more rounded hitter to be good in the 2 spot. he isn't. he won't bunt. he's not a '2' hitter. he won't hit to all fields.

Soto is a righty. I'm mildy ********. Pie and **** you do me are the only lefties who'll see a regular spot in the order.

There was an article on cubs.com that said that Lou is going to bat Soriano 2nd to hopefully prevent some injuries... i know he's going to bat 1st, i wish he wasn't but he is.

The reason i had Fukudome 4th is balance, the top 3 are righties, Ramirez, Soto and DeRosa are all righties, i didn't want 4 straight righties in either option. The best possible lineup for me would be:

1. Theriot SS R (terrific speed, perfect leadoff hitter)
2. Fukudome RF L (ought to have a high OBP, has good speed)
3. Lee 1B R
4. Ramirez 3B R
5. Soriano LF R
6. DeRosa 2B R
7. Soto C R (DeRosa above him because of the veteran aspect)
8. Pie CF L (Low pressure spot, won't likely see many great pitches, Soto could go here)
9. Pitcher

that lineup makes the most sense based on the individual skills of the players. The issue is having 5 righties in a row... that's terrible, you simply can't do that. I don't see Pie batting higher, maybe over Soto, but the only other option is batting Fukudome lower, likely in the 4 spot to stay in front of Ramirez which will give Ramirez more RBI opportunities.

awfullyquiet
03-15-2008, 09:46 PM
There was an article on cubs.com that said that Lou is going to bat Soriano 2nd to hopefully prevent some injuries... i know he's going to bat 1st, i wish he wasn't but he is.

The reason i had Fukudome 4th is balance, the top 3 are righties, Ramirez, Soto and DeRosa are all righties, i didn't want 4 straight righties in either option. The best possible lineup for me would be:

1. Theriot SS R (terrific speed, perfect leadoff hitter)
2. Fukudome RF L (ought to have a high OBP, has good speed)
3. Lee 1B R
4. Ramirez 3B R
5. Soriano LF R
6. DeRosa 2B R
7. Soto C R (DeRosa above him because of the veteran aspect)
8. Pie CF L (Low pressure spot, won't likely see many great pitches, Soto could go here)
9. Pitcher

that lineup makes the most sense based on the individual skills of the players. The issue is having 5 righties in a row... that's terrible, you simply can't do that. I don't see Pie batting higher, maybe over Soto, but the only other option is batting Fukudome lower, likely in the 4 spot to stay in front of Ramirez which will give Ramirez more RBI opportunities.

derosa 6, soto 7, pie 8 isn't bad. and i agree with you, but fukudome really doesn't have mlb power. he's the better 2hole. more important than soriano is in the second hole.

it's a tough job. and i don't envy lou

VoteLynnSwan
03-15-2008, 10:42 PM
derosa 6, soto 7, pie 8 isn't bad. and i agree with you, but fukudome really doesn't have mlb power. he's the better 2hole. more important than soriano is in the second hole.

it's a tough job. and i don't envy lou

I'm not too concerned that Fukudome doesn't have MLB power... i don't understand why the clean up hitter has to be a tremendous power hitter... in my opinion it doesn't matter, because if he's batting 4th, and getting on base at a high rate, it will be Ramirez's responsibility to drive him in, and he's definitely capable of that.

iowatreat54
03-15-2008, 10:55 PM
I really just don't like the idea of Soriano batting 5th...he isn't the type of batter that can bat without seeing a good amount of fastballs and without protection...I'm not saying 5th isn't an RBI producing spot, just that Soriano shouldn't be batting with out anyone behind him, he needs to bat 1-4

we could even do this and I would be happy:

1. Theriot
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Soriano
5. Ramirez

awfullyquiet
03-16-2008, 02:13 AM
I'm not too concerned that Fukudome doesn't have MLB power... i don't understand why the clean up hitter has to be a tremendous power hitter... in my opinion it doesn't matter, because if he's batting 4th, and getting on base at a high rate, it will be Ramirez's responsibility to drive him in, and he's definitely capable of that.

It's always been my thought though, in baseball, if it ain't broke. don't fix it.

ramirez is the best hitter on the team. your best hitter should bat 4th. the more i think about it. i'm ok with moving lee to the five hole and soriano to the three hole.... i was gonna make a statement on how his high K rating would suck in the 3 hole. but. it'd really honestly be worse in the 5 spot. put it this way, in the 9th. heart of the order comes up. soriano, ramirez, lee, derosa, soto?

soriano does one of two things. power or bust. if he gets a base hit, i'd take soriano stealing over dlee in that spot. ramirez and lee can make contact and derosa has good k/bb & obp. you flip it around in you have dlee making contact, ramirez making contact, and you don't have that great of speed at the top of the heart. if it was the top of the lineup (best case scenerio). you have two obp guys in theriot and fukudome with decent to good speed. theriot hits. fukudome walks, they'll pitch to soriano the low ball, hope for the twin killing, but, soriano is good at actually hitting balls low in the zone. so they won't pitch like that. suppose he gets punched out, you have ramirez and dlee to get a rbi. better than ramirez and then soriano.

as far as the bottom of the order when offense comes around? screw it. pull pie. have sterile ward, murton, or fox hit. not the greatest bench hitters, but certainly not horrid. pinch the pitcher. call it a day.

iowatreat54
03-16-2008, 12:56 PM
It's always been my thought though, in baseball, if it ain't broke. don't fix it.

ramirez is the best hitter on the team. your best hitter should bat 4th. the more i think about it. i'm ok with moving lee to the five hole and soriano to the three hole.... i was gonna make a statement on how his high K rating would suck in the 3 hole. but. it'd really honestly be worse in the 5 spot. put it this way, in the 9th. heart of the order comes up. soriano, ramirez, lee, derosa, soto?

soriano does one of two things. power or bust. if he gets a base hit, i'd take soriano stealing over dlee in that spot. ramirez and lee can make contact and derosa has good k/bb & obp. you flip it around in you have dlee making contact, ramirez making contact, and you don't have that great of speed at the top of the heart. if it was the top of the lineup (best case scenerio). you have two obp guys in theriot and fukudome with decent to good speed. theriot hits. fukudome walks, they'll pitch to soriano the low ball, hope for the twin killing, but, soriano is good at actually hitting balls low in the zone. so they won't pitch like that. suppose he gets punched out, you have ramirez and dlee to get a rbi. better than ramirez and then soriano.

as far as the bottom of the order when offense comes around? screw it. pull pie. have sterile ward, murton, or fox hit. not the greatest bench hitters, but certainly not horrid. pinch the pitcher. call it a day.

ahhhh you've finally seen the light :)

it's not that 5 is a horrible spot for Soriano, but 1-4 are all better spots for him for basically the exact reasons you said...all this talk is getting my hopes extremely high for Theriot to bat leadoff, but I have a feeling that either A. he will start there and then after about 15-20 games Soriano will be back or B. Soriano will just bat leadoff from the start...I don't mind Soriano leading off, I really just want to see what Theriot can do in that position because I think he can really succeed there

VoteLynnSwan
03-16-2008, 02:09 PM
you don't put your best hitter 4th... you put him 3rd to increase his atbats... that's why Derrek Lee has been our 3rd hitter... because he was the best hitter. I think he'll have a bounce back year, and we don't need to move him.

awfullyquiet
03-19-2008, 01:56 PM
you don't put your best hitter 4th... you put him 3rd to increase his atbats... that's why Derrek Lee has been our 3rd hitter... because he was the best hitter. I think he'll have a bounce back year, and we don't need to move him.

You're right. Best != Power. I like putting power in the cleanup especially at wrigley. and especially someone who can put it in right field with RISP. Ramirez can. Ramirez will be more productive with soriano batting behind him than cliff floyd. Soriano's numbers might suffer until soto becomes some issue for pitchers.

D-Lee bats third as a great contact hitter with some power. All around, Derrek Lee is a better hitter. More well rounded. People will pitch to him because of Ramirez, he makes good contact, and with OBP before him. They'll pitch to Ramirez because of Soriano behind them.

regoob2
03-21-2008, 06:37 PM
CSN just said that the cubs are considering batting fukudome as the lead off hitter. Not sure about that idea personally.

awfullyquiet
03-21-2008, 07:18 PM
lou said that at the game today. he also said he thinks soriano can hit anywhere 1-5

regoob2
03-21-2008, 07:21 PM
lou said that at the game today. he also said he thinks soriano can hit anywhere 1-5Are they airing the games? I havent seen one yet. I'd prefer fukudome in the 2 hole.

regoob2
03-26-2008, 10:16 PM
Can't wait for opening day!! Anyone going to the game? I guess Murton might not make the team.

awfullyquiet
03-27-2008, 10:07 AM
Can't wait for opening day!! Anyone going to the game? I guess Murton might not make the team.

Murton has great trade prospect written all over him though.

regoob2
03-27-2008, 06:26 PM
Murton has great trade prospect written all over him though.I'm still hoping its for Brian Roberts.

RockJock07
03-27-2008, 06:59 PM
Brian Roberts won't be a member of the cubs without paying a hefty amount to the O's. However, since this deal hasn't happened yet, it probably won't happen until the deadline if at all.

regoob2
03-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Brian Roberts won't be a member of the cubs without paying a hefty amount to the O's. However, since this deal hasn't happened yet, it probably won't happen until the deadline if at all.
I think the only thing holding it back is one more prospect. I think it still could happen.

awfullyquiet
03-27-2008, 10:13 PM
I think the only thing holding it back is one more prospect. I think it still could happen.

It's not worth it though. Not at all. The ability roberts would bring wouldn't be worth it if we just have soriano eventually bat leadoff again. which i'd totally see happening again.

bearsfan_51
03-28-2008, 02:25 PM
White Sox= suck.

Cubs= suck.

Indians= awesome.

bearsfan_51
03-28-2008, 02:26 PM
I hope that the Cubs don't trade for Roberts though. DeRosa is my super utility man in my FF league. If he's not starting he's worthless.

awfullyquiet
03-28-2008, 07:29 PM
I hope that the Cubs don't trade for Roberts though. DeRosa is my super utility man in my FF league. If he's not starting he's worthless.

Ditto. I think the roberts trade is garbage.
Also because i have derosa too.

p.s. 51. i also feel the tribe love. of all the AL that's my team.

bearsfan_51
03-28-2008, 08:02 PM
We're the lovable losers of the AL. We even got a good series of movies made about us. Who doesn't love Major League?

awfullyquiet
03-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Better question, Who love major league 4?

VoteLynnSwan
03-29-2008, 01:19 AM
I always preferred Little Big League with the Minnesota Twins... and of course Rookie of the Year with the greatest team ever.

regoob2
03-30-2008, 11:42 AM
Baseball Tonight predicts that the World Series will be the Cubs vs. Indians. Interesting.

bearsfan_51
03-30-2008, 11:44 AM
Baseball tonight is full of morons. Steve Phillips was 0/8 last year on his division picks.

But I hope they are right this time.

Smokey Joe
03-30-2008, 12:40 PM
who ready for the sox to get their asses beat by the tribe??? I know I am!

(quietly sobs in corner)

bearsfan_51
03-30-2008, 01:01 PM
Well hopefully Vazquez does well at least. I need him to have a good season.

Smokey Joe
03-30-2008, 01:05 PM
Well hopefully Vazquez does well at least. I need him to have a good season.
Vazquez is a stud, don't worry. He's going to single-handedly win us game 2.

I am willing to bet he will finish the year being in the top 3-5 for the cy young voting.

bearsfan_51
03-30-2008, 01:54 PM
You're joking right? I just need him to win 15-18 games and have an ERA around 4.00

Smokey Joe
03-30-2008, 03:54 PM
You're joking right? I just need him to win 15-18 games and have an ERA around 4.00
don't underestimate the greatness of Vazquez. If he actually got some help from the bullpen and offense last year, Vazquez should have had another 5-7 wins.

sweetness34
03-30-2008, 09:14 PM
Well hopefully Vazquez does well at least. I need him to have a good season.

That's one reason I don't like fantasy, rooting for other players to do well who are playing my team. If a pitcher is facing my team that's on my roster, **** em'.

bearsfan_51
03-30-2008, 09:27 PM
I don't play fantasy football, but I'm not a big enough Indians fan to care. Not to mention that regular season baseball is pretty worthless anyway.

VoteLynnSwan
03-30-2008, 09:44 PM
Vazquez is a stud, don't worry. He's going to single-handedly win us game 2.

I am willing to bet he will finish the year being in the top 3-5 for the cy young voting.

Vazquez is not a stud... stop saying that. He's a solid 2-3 starter, nothing like what you're making him out to be.

Smokey Joe
03-30-2008, 09:48 PM
Vazquez is not a stud... stop saying that. He's a solid 2-3 starter, nothing like what you're making him out to be.
he did better then anyone of the cubs starters last season...

awfullyquiet
03-30-2008, 10:17 PM
he did better then anyone of the cubs starters last season...

in what category?

defend!

VoteLynnSwan
03-31-2008, 12:47 PM
he did better then anyone of the cubs starters last season...

of course you would bring this up... and of course the Cubs starting pitchers have nothing to do with the type of pitcher Javier Vazquez is.

Vazquez's line
15-8 3.74ERA

Carlos Zambrano's line
18-13 3.95ERA

Ted Lilly's line
15-8 3.83ERA

now come on man... Ted Lilly's ERA was 0.09 points worse than Vazquez's... don't act like Vazquez was head and shoulders better than anyone on the Cubs.

I'm sure you'll counter this with some stupid argument about how the American League is better than the National League, and Vazquez's stats would transfer to about 25-3 2.05ERA in the NL. So please... just don't bother. We all know the AL is better, but none of this eliminates the fact that Javier Vazquez is not a top pitcher... and is not Cy Young material, and is nothing more than a capable #2 starter.

bearsfan_51
03-31-2008, 12:58 PM
That may be true, but you have a Matchbox 20 sig.

VoteLynnSwan
03-31-2008, 01:08 PM
That may be true, but you have a Matchbox 20 sig.

that is not Matchbox 20... if you knew anything about good music... you'd know that it's Muse. They're British.

bearsfan_51
03-31-2008, 01:11 PM
Damn..I wish I knew more about good music. Please teach me.

And I know who Muse is. Radiohead wanna-bee's. But certainly much better than Matchbox 20.

VoteLynnSwan
03-31-2008, 01:12 PM
Damn..I wish I knew more about good music. Please teach me.

And I know who Muse is. Radiohead wanna-bee's. But certainly much better than Matchbox 20.

haha i was joking... but Muse is far from Radiohead wanna-bee's by the way... Radiohead wishes they were as good as Muse.

In fact... no one from Muse actually says they were inspired at all by Radiohead... here's what Matt Bellamy (the lead singer) had to say on the matter

Matthew Bellamy: "There's two things that make me understand why we've been compared. Thom Yorke is influenced by Jeff Buckley, and John Leckie produced "The Bends" and John Leckie also produced our album. But, when people see us live, they see that we're more of a rock band."

Bellamy credits Jeff Buckley as the inspiration for his distinctive singing style... so the comment you could make is that Matt Bellamy and Thom Yorke are both wanna bee Jeff Buckleys... i don't particularly care for Buckley much however...

MidwayMonster31
03-31-2008, 11:35 PM
don't underestimate the greatness of Vazquez. If he actually got some help from the bullpen and offense last year, Vazquez should have had another 5-7 wins.Vazquez was definitely our best starting pitcher last year. If the offense scores and the bullpen doesn't implode on sight, he could be an all-star this year. Cy Young might be aiming a little high, but anything is possible.

VoteLynnSwan
03-31-2008, 11:36 PM
well i think Cy Young would be next to impossible... Vazquez would have to absolutely DOMINATE the entire American League to get serious consideration... because i don't think there's any way that the White Sox will be serious contenders.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
04-01-2008, 12:51 PM
You gotta hand it to Buehrle.. He gets out there and gets straight to the sucking.

RockJock07
04-01-2008, 02:33 PM
Mark will be fine, although it's never good to watch your ace get his ace handed to him on opening day.

I don't think the tribe will win the division, however I think they do win the WC. They need that martinez injury to be minor cause he can flat out dominate when healthy. I don't think that bullpen is as good as everyone makes it out to be and the fact that borowski converts save after save just makes me angry. He seemingly throws trash but yet gets almost 50 saves last year, however, I think this is the year he gets tagged.

As for the sox, i really like Swisher, maybe not leading off all year, but he's pretty damn good. I liked how the bullpen pitched yesterday, I don't wanna see Dotel for a week, he put it on a tee all inning and almost got out of it.

AND PLEASE, what's the deal with Fausto love. The year before last year, he was AWFUL, then out of no where he figures it out. I would lay money that he doesn't win 12 games this year.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2008, 08:50 PM
Fausto is like 24 years old dude. And he wasn't awful as a starter his rookie year, just as a closer. I'm pretty sure you could put just about anyone in our starting lineup and he'd win 12 games. I don't think he'll win the Cy Young like some do, but he's better than anyone the White Sox or the Cubs have.

On that note, thanks for nothing Vazquez. I knew I shouldn't have drafted any White Sox.

VoteLynnSwan
04-02-2008, 09:13 PM
Fausto is like 24 years old dude. And he wasn't awful as a starter his rookie year, just as a closer. I'm pretty sure you could put just about anyone in our starting lineup and he'd win 12 games. I don't think he'll win the Cy Young like some do, but he's better than anyone the White Sox or the Cubs have.

On that note, thanks for nothing Vazquez. I knew I shouldn't have drafted any White Sox.

I don't know that you can call Carmona better than Zambrano yet... Zambrano is a streaky pitcher I know... but he himself is only 26, and lets let Fausto have a good year to prove he deserved to be listed among the better pitchers in the league.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2008, 09:14 PM
I don't know that you can call Carmona better than Zambrano yet... Zambrano is a streaky pitcher I know... but he himself is only 26, and lets let Fausto have a good year to prove he deserved to be listed among the better pitchers in the league.
If I was making a list of the best pitchers in the league, Zambrano would be nowhere near it.

VoteLynnSwan
04-02-2008, 09:15 PM
If I was making a list of the best pitchers in the league, Zambrano would be nowhere near it.

well ignore the fact that i said "better" then...

RockJock07
04-03-2008, 12:45 AM
If Zambrano would stop being a d-bag and take care of his body and stop being crazy on the mound, he would be a top 10 pitcher.

Carmona wasn't on his game today, the sox just have a foundness of swinging at everything. Carmona will get lit up vs the tigers.

regoob2
04-05-2008, 02:01 PM
Man I'm falling in love with Fukudome more and more every time I see him play. This Cubs team just seems unmotivated to me. I would like to see Fukudome in the #2 spot.

awfullyquiet
04-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Man I'm falling in love with Fukudome more and more every time I see him play. This Cubs team just seems unmotivated to me. I would like to see Fukudome in the #2 spot.

Fukudome = love

Soriano get all of my ire though. I wasn't too surprised about the switch to move theriot down. BUT. Soriano hasnt produced one bit... not a one. Sure it's game four. But. Any production would be key. and the minimization of defensive errors would be nice too. that tejada triple to the LF wall was a prime example.

also. Pie still sucks.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
04-13-2008, 06:06 PM
Kinda under the radar, but Lou made a brilliant move today.

Basically, using Pie as a pawn to get Gordon out of the game and the exact matchup he wanted. (Soto vs the lefty & not having to waste Ward)

If Manuel doesn't get ejected -- he may have kept Flash in there. Brilliant, imo and it's refreshing to know we have a great manager.

dabears10
04-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Is anyone surprised that both Chicago teams are over .500 2 weeks in the season? I hope both teams do well, Cubs better than the Sox, but it would be a welcomed change to have 2 playoff teams out of Chicago.

regoob2
04-15-2008, 07:14 PM
Well Soriano just hurt his leg doing his little stupid jump to catch a routine fly ball! I hate him.

awfullyquiet
04-18-2008, 03:57 PM
Is anyone surprised that both Chicago teams are over .500 2 weeks in the season? I hope both teams do well, Cubs better than the Sox, but it would be a welcomed change to have 2 playoff teams out of Chicago.

it's april. not august. the cubs do decent in april. sometimes.

i also hope comiskey is swollowed by an earthquake.

regoob2
04-23-2008, 07:38 AM
Ronny Cedeno just said on sportscenter that the Cubs players are talking about the World Series!!! Destiny! It's our year!!!

RockJock07
04-23-2008, 03:01 PM
it's april. not august. the cubs do decent in april. sometimes.

i also hope comiskey is swollowed by an earthquake.

The cubs have played really well but have played mostly bad teams at wrigley. Their schedule gets harder and will require more road games, so I expect them to come down to earth a bit but they should still win their division by 7+ games.

awfullyquiet
04-23-2008, 04:36 PM
WTF? BB?q

Soriano has to bat 5th now and drive home these walkers. Johnson, Theriot, and Fontenot will take the leadoff.

it's so weird that the cubs would walk though. it's a foreign concept. but. god. necessary. screw hits. walks are way better.