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View Full Version : Mock, Mock, Mock, tis' the season... 2 rounds of mock draft joy...


Poz51
12-06-2012, 10:42 AM
A couple thoughts on the draft; I was more excited than ever for this QB class heading into the season, and could not be more disapointed as the season comes to an end. I do think T. Wilson is far more consistant than G. Smith with less talent around him, and people fell in love with Smith's first couple games, and are not looking at the season as a whole or last year.
I think several trends will change in this draft, Jeff Fisher will draft at least one offensive linemen in the first round, Buddy Nix will be more open to drafting players outside of the SE in the early rounds, and teams will not reach on QB's as much.
I like to come up with 2 sleepers about this time of year, last year I had Chandler Jones and Leonard Johnson, this year my sleepers are Ryan Nassib (QB -Syracuse) and Andrew Jackson (ILB - W. Kentucky - should he come out) who I dont think are not getting the credit at this point they deserve.
Anyway, I am looking for any intelligent feed back and insight into what does not make sense about a pick, or a trade. I included my initial end of the season draft grades, using my previous format as I did not like the system I came up with last year. As usual I will respond when I can, enjoy!!


2013 NFL Mock Draft
Round 1 (v1.3)

1 – Kansas City – Tyler Wilson (QB – Arkansas)
Grade: Top 5
*Trade* Carolina trades the 5th pick and 36th pick in the 2013 draft, as well as their 2nd round pick in 2014 to Jacksonville for pick number 2 in the 2013 draft.
2 – Carolina (via. Jax) – Star Lotulelei (DT – Utah)
Grade: Top 5
3 – Oakland – Damontre Moore (DE – Texas A & M)
Grade: Top 5
4 – Philadelphia – Luke Joeckel (LT – Texas A & M)
Grade: Top 5
5 – Jacksonville (via. Carolina) – Jarvis Jones (OLB – Georgia)
Grade: #1 Pick
*Trade* St. Louis trades the 15th,47th, 79th, and 207th picks in 2013 to San Diego for the 6th and 104th picks in 2013.
6 – St. Louis (via. S.D.) – Taylor Lewan (LT – Michigan)
Grade: Top 10
7 – Cleveland – Bjoern Werner (DE – F.S.U.)
Grade: Top 20
8 – Tennessee – Keenan Allen (WR – Cal.)
Grade: Top 10
9 – Arizona – Jake Matthews (LT/RT – Texas A & M)
Grade: Top 10
10 – Detroit – Ezekiel Ansah (DE – B.Y.U.)
Grade: Top 20
11 – Buffalo – Manti Te’o (ILB – Notre Dame)
Grade: Top 5
12 – New Orleans – Sheldon Richardson (DT – Mizzu)
Grade: Top 20
13 – Miami – Cordarrelle Patterson (WR – Tennessee)
Grade: 1st Round
14 – N.Y.J. – Barkevious Mingo (OLB – L.S.U.)
Grade: Top 20
15 – San Diego – Eric Fisher(LT – C. Michigan)
Grade: 1st Round
16 – Tampa Bay – Johnathan Banks (CB – Miss. St.)
Grade: Top 10
17 – St. Louis (via. Washington) – Chance Womack (G – Alabama)
Grade: Top 10
18 – Dallas – Johnathan Hankins (DT – O.S.U.)
Grade: Top 20
19 – Minnesota – DeAndre Hopkins (WR – Clemson)
Grade: 1st Round
20 – Cincinnati – Sam Montgomery (DE – L.S.U.)
Grade: 1st Round
21 – Pittsburgh – T.J. McDonald (FS – U.S.C.)
Grade: 1st Round
22 – Seattle – Tevon Austin (WR – W. Virginia)
Grade: First Round
23 – N.Y.G. – Dee Milliner (CB – Alabama)
Grade: Top 20
24 – Indianapolis – Anthony Barr (OLB – U.C.L.A.)
Grade: 1st Round
25 – Chicago – Jonathan Cooper (G – U.N.C.)
Grade: 1st Round
26– Green Bay – Lane Johnson (LT/RT – Oklahoma)
Grade: 1st Round
27 – Denver – Kawann Short (DT – Purdue)
Grade: 1st Round
*Trade* Philadelphia trades the 35th, 69th, and 216th picks in the 2013 draft to Baltimore for the 28th, and 92nd picks in the 2013 draft.
28 – Philadelphia (via. Baltimore) – Geno Smith (QB – W. Virginia)
Grade: 2nd Round
29 – San Francisco – Dion Jordan (OLB – Oregon)
Grade: 1st Round
30 – New England – Barrett Jones (G/C/T – Alabama)
Grade: 1st Round
31 – Atlanta – Jesse Williams (NT – Alabama)
Grade: 1st Round
32 – Houston – Quinton Patten (WR – La. Tech.)
Grade: 1st Round

Round 2

33 – Jacksonville – Xavier Rhodes (CB – F.S.U.)
Grade: 1st Round
34 – Kansas City – Terrance Williams (WR – Baylor)
Grade: 2nd Round
*Trade* Arizona trades the 40th and 102nd picks in the 2013 draft to Baltimore for the 35th pick.
35 – Arizona (via. Baltimore /Philadelphia) – Matt Barkley (QB – U.S.C.)
Grade: 2nd Round
36 – Jacksonville (via. Carolina) – Larry Warford (G – Kentucky)
Grade: 2nd Round
37 – Cincinnati (via. Oakland) – Giovani Bernard (RB – U.N.C.)
Grade: 2nd Round
38 – Cleveland – Josh Gordon Supplemental Draft
39 – Tennessee – Alex Okafor (DE – Texas)
Grade: 2nd Round
40 – Baltimore (via. Arizona) – Andrew Jackson (ILB – W. Kentucky)
Grade: 1st Round
41 – Detroit – Eric Reid (SS/FS – L.S.U.)
Grade: 2nd Round
42 – San Diego – C.J. Mosley (OLB – Alabama)
Grade: 2nd Round
43 – New Orleans – Bounty Gate
44 – Miami – Jackson Jeffcoat (DE – Texas)
Grade: 2nd Round
45 – N.Y.J. – Oday Aboushi (LT/RT – Virginia)
Grade: 2nd Round
46 – Buffalo – Ryan Nassib (QB – Syracuse)
Grade: 2nd Round
47 – San Diego (via. St. Louis) – Jordan Poyer (CB – Oregon St.)
Grade: 2nd Round
48 – Washington – David Amerson (CB – N.C. St)
Grade: 2nd Round
49 – Dallas – Dallas Thomas (G/T – U.Tennessee)
Grade: 2nd Round
50 – Minnesota – Sharrif Floyd (DT – Florida)
Grade: 2nd Round
51 – Tampa Bay – Kevin Minter (ILB – L.S.U.)
Grade: 2nd Round
52 – Cincinnati – Shayne Skov (ILB – Stanford)
Grade: 2nd Round
53 – Seattle – Kahseem Green (LB – Rutgers)
Grade: 2nd Round
54 – N.Y.G. – Zach Ertz (TE – Stanford)
Grade: 1st Round
55 – Pittsburgh – Chase Thomas (OLB – Stanford)
Grade: 1st Round
56 – Miami (via. Indy) – Tyler Eifert (TE – Notre Dame)
Grade: 1st Round
57 – Green Bay – Eddie Lacy (RB – Alabama)
Grade: 2nd Round
58 – Chicago – Desmond Trufant (CB – Washington)
Grade: 2nd Round
59 – Baltimore – Matt Elam (SS – Florida)
Grade: 2nd Round
60 – Denver – Jonathan Jenkins (NT – Georgia)
Grade: 2nd round
61 – San Francisco – Logan Ryan (CB – Rutgers)
Grade: 3rd Round
62 – New England – Justin Hunter (WR – Tennessee)
Grade: 2nd Round
63 – Atlanta – Kyle Long (LT – Oregon)
Grade: 3rd Round
64 – Houston – Nico Johnson (ILB – Alabama)
Grade: 3rd Round

ChicagoBearsVet23
12-06-2012, 11:11 AM
A Perfect Bears draft would be B. Jones and Elam

coordinator0
12-06-2012, 11:22 AM
I don't mind the Ravens trading back but if Jordan is still on the board at that point I'd really prefer them just to take him. As for who you actually have them taking I'm not as familiar with Jackson as the other ILB prospects but I've heard good things about him. I would prefer Mosley but right now that's only because I know more about him and I like what I've seen. Arthur Brown is probably a bit higher on my list than even Mosley but I see you don't have him in the top two rounds.

Elam (as a FS, not SS) is alright with the second pick. I have my concerns about any S taken with a high pick sitting for at least a couple of seasons (I think Reed comes back on a multi-year deal and starts as long as he's a Raven) but that's easier to swallow for a second round pick than a first round pick.

Pat Sims 90
12-06-2012, 12:23 PM
I would like the Bengals draft. The only nitpick I would give is give the Bengals Green or Thomas over Skov. Maualuga has played a lot better since being called out.

CJSchneider
12-06-2012, 12:38 PM
If I am NO, I'd rather have Johnathan Hankins.

Poz51
12-06-2012, 12:44 PM
A Perfect Bears draft would be B. Jones and Elam

I have been trying to get out a mock for a little over two weeks, and in one version I had Jones going to the Bears, and agree it would be a nice pick, I do however have Cooper rated higher, and went with his grade and athleticism over Jones flexability. When I watch the Bears play, I see a interior line that is slow, has poor reaction time, especially to twists and stunts. Do you think Jones is a better upgrade in that area, or am I just wrong?
As for Elam, I would agree that he is a strong possibility at that spot, but again, had Trufant as a better value, and had heard the Bears will have FA issues at corner, is that true from what you know?

Poz51
12-06-2012, 12:53 PM
If I am NO, I'd rather have Johnathan Hankins.

I dont blame you in the respect that many have Hankins as a top 10 type value, although I am not sold on that yet, I went with Richardson because I think he is a better scheme fit as a 3 tech than anyone else on the roster. IMO Bunkley and Hicks are better suited to play the nose, and I think Ellis will want too much money to stay in the NOLA. Additionally I have Richardson and Hankins with the same grade, with Richardson being a better fit in their attacking style. I also down grade Hankins due to his inconsistant effort, from what I have seen of both so far on the field I would take Richardsons more consistant effort over Hankins.

Razor
12-06-2012, 12:53 PM
I'd be fine with that...

Brown Leader
12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Werner's a great pick. I'm not sure he'll be there for us though. There's also a slight issue in that Werner primarily plays LE, which is where the Browns play Sheard, who's proven less effective on the right side. Werner's first step is outstanding so you'd think he could play either side but it's something they'll consider when scouting. It's also not out of the question that they might sit Sheard if they get a better LE.

Rest

-I'm curious why you have the Titans taking another WR?
-Te'o outside of the top ten is looking unlikely-even if his best position is MLB.
-Sheldon Richardson's attitude is gonna drop him.
-T.J. McDonald in the first is surprising. I liked him before the season but he hasn't had a great year.
-Quinton Patton. I'm skeptical about this guy.
-Given the opportunity to take Barkley, Bray or Nassib, which do you think the Bills would prefer? If Barkley/Bray drop, it won't be too difficult for the Bills to move up.

Poz51
12-06-2012, 01:07 PM
I don't mind the Ravens trading back but if Jordan is still on the board at that point I'd really prefer them just to take him. As for who you actually have them taking I'm not as familiar with Jackson as the other ILB prospects but I've heard good things about him. I would prefer Mosley but right now that's only because I know more about him and I like what I've seen. Arthur Brown is probably a bit higher on my list than even Mosley but I see you don't have him in the top two rounds.

Elam (as a FS, not SS) is alright with the second pick. I have my concerns about any S taken with a high pick sitting for at least a couple of seasons (I think Reed comes back on a multi-year deal and starts as long as he's a Raven) but that's easier to swallow for a second round pick than a first round pick.

I thought about Jordan to the Ravens, but with Suggs and Upshaw, I thought it would be a little too much of a luxury. But I will certainly entertain eating crow.
Jackson is a guy I was turned onto last year, and love what I see from him, especially in a 3-4/hybrid style defense, kind of reminds of Lavon Kirkland. Heart and Soul type, with surprising athleticism, instictive, and a tackling machine. Alabama smoked W. Kentucky, but Jackson I thought was a star, and did not look out of place playing against Bama.
Mosley concerns me because he was not a 3 down player from what I saw, talented no doubt.... I still need to double check alot of things.
I like Arthur Brown alot, and had him at the top of the third round as a second round value, but did not finish the third... I wanted to fit him in, and in time probably will do so.
Elam I think could play FS, and if Reed hangs on for a couple more years, I hear what you are saying, makes sense... Elam at FS, then in time move him over?

Poz51
12-06-2012, 01:44 PM
Werner's a great pick. I'm not sure he'll be there for us though. There's also a slight issue in that Werner primarily plays LE, which is where the Browns play Sheard, who's proven less effective on the right side. Werner's first step is outstanding so you'd think he could play either side but it's something they'll consider when scouting. It's also not out of the question that they might sit Sheard if they get a better LE.

Rest

-I'm curious why you have the Titans taking another WR?
-Te'o outside of the top ten is looking unlikely-even if his best position is MLB.
-Sheldon Richardson's attitude is gonna drop him.
-T.J. McDonald in the first is surprising. I liked him before the season but he hasn't had a great year.
-Quinton Patton. I'm skeptical about this guy.
-Given the opportunity to take Barkley, Bray or Nassib, which do you think the Bills would prefer? If Barkley/Bray drop, it won't be too difficult for the Bills to move up.

Werner may not be, he is continually moving up my board, some of my notes from last season mention him as a RE, and I think he can play there, but this season everything I have mentions him as a LE, and I considered that Sheard issue and almost had the Browns move up for Moore, but could not see Oakland trading back and had Carolina steal the 2nd spot. I did like the Sheard/Werner combination at LE/RE respectively.

Titans - I think K. Wright is best suited for the slot, Every year it seems like Britt gets into one or two off the field problem/s and they seem to be escilating, I wonder if the give him a big contract in two years? Injury concern are also starting to mount IMO. Nate Washington is a good player, but I think Allen is a big upgrade. All of that coupled with Allen's value, his ability to grow with Locker, and their first two options off the board made me go with Allen. I did almost put Ansah their, and in time just might.

Te'o - I agree, although if Willis goes 11th, so can Te'o IMO. Not to mention things just fell that way, I actually almost went with him to Cleveland.

Richardson - It might, i have heard rumors and will be interested to see how that develops leading up to the draft. I actually have his talent level as board line top ten, but until the other stuff is figured out, have him as a top twenty overall, and could drop.

McDonald - I am torn on him right now. I am trying to figure out Lane Kiffins affect on his teams. Which might have an negative affect on his players. I also have not re-evaluated him fully yet. Right now nothing with him would shock me in terms of where he went in the draft.

Patten - I dont blame you, and will be interested see how his pre-draft process plays out.

Bray - I dont think he should declare, and I am not as high on him as most. Buffalo maybe... I think the Bills would probably prefer Bray out of the 3, Nassib is actually my second rated QB right now. If a new coach comes in, I could see Barkley, but dont think he fits with Gailey, if Barkley or Bray drop, I could see them moving up for Bray. Bray and or Nassib would be the best fit IMO. Nix's history tells me Bray. Although I do think Nassib will be a better pro-QB. I had a conversation with a well known writer for another sight, who tore Nassib apart, and that was after the USC game in which he only wrote negatives about Nassib, but had no answers for the positives I brought up (he regularly develops tunnel vision, and told me last year C.Jones was nothing more than a mid-late round prospect who would be lucky to be a back up), including Nassib being the only reason Cuse' wasnt blown out of the water in that game. I am actually shocked he is not getting more national attention, Sales and Lemon will be lucky to get camp invites, unless one of them blows up the pre-draft process, and Nassib has Manning/Brady/Brees like on the field command qualities. I hope he ends up in Buffalo as a Bills fan. That is all just my opinion though.

vidae
12-06-2012, 02:01 PM
I love that KC draft.

coordinator0
12-06-2012, 02:18 PM
Elam I think could play FS, and if Reed hangs on for a couple more years, I hear what you are saying, makes sense... Elam at FS, then in time move him over?

The thing is Pollard is almost a perfect fit for what the Ravens need/want at SS. Maybe in a few seasons when Pollard's contract is over and/or they don't keep him around Elam could move over to that role but I don't think that would be the best fit for him anyways, especially not in the role that the Ravens usually like the SS to have. Honestly I think they're going to stick with developing Christian Thompson (4th round pick last season, really raw but has some nice physical tools to work with) to take over for Reed in a few seasons and then go from there.

regoob2
12-06-2012, 03:06 PM
A Perfect Bears draft would be B. Jones and Elam
That would be a terrible Bears draft. Jones isn't worth a 1st round pick and Elam would be our 2nd or 3rd string SS?

If we take Cooper in the 1st give us Gerald Hodges in the 2nd.

indyfan1985
12-06-2012, 04:31 PM
Bad pick for the Colts. Give them the higher rated pass rusher LB Dion Jordan. He would give them a versatile pass rusher with great length that we do not have.

Cigaro
12-06-2012, 04:55 PM
There's really no need for the Panthers to trade up. Lotulelei and Hankins have similar grades, and Joeckel is a legitimate option as well. We pissed away two second round picks to draft a player who may have been available at five, and even if not wasn't that much better than the other options. We have too many needs to hitch ourselves to a single player in that manner.

ArkyRamsFan
12-06-2012, 06:03 PM
Poz51,

Permit me to comment on your Rams draft with a simple word....NOOOOOOOO!!....and hell no. My reasoning is as follows:

1.) I agree with you that this could be the year that Fish finally goes OL in the first round, but this is ONLY because he has multiple picks in the first round. If he didn't he would not draft an offensive lineman.

2.) There is next to no way in Hades the Rams take TWO OL in the first round.

3.) The Rams if anything are looking to trade DOWN with at least one if not both of their first round picks. So this trade up ain't gonna happen...

4.) Speaking of your trade it makes little to no sense on multiple levels.

A.) We give up way too much for a team with as many holes as we have.

B.) According to your mock we could've just stayed at 15 and picked a LOT like Eric Fisher and saved all of our picks. Huh?!? Is Lewan really that much better than Fisher? And, if so, is he worth what is tantamount to a King's ransom to get him?

5.) If (and it is a big 'IF') we were to trade up for an OL it had better be for a guy named Luke Joeckel.

6.) Many do not know this but the Rams actually like Rodger Saffold as their LOT. The only issue with him has been health but since he has returned to the starting lineup he has played well.

Since the Rams are in Buffalo this Sunsday I suggest you watch Saffold a bit and see how he does. You may be surprised....

Finally, this game against the Bills is a MUST win for the Rams for reasons beyond the usual trite stuff like playoffs or a winning record, etc. You see my lovely wife is FROM Buffalo ( grew up in Cheektowaga - try saying that 5x's quickly) and it is absolutely imperative that we dunk the Bills in the Niagara River or is it Lake Erie? Well, no matter. For continued peace in our home it is necessary that I..er..the RAMS win convincingly so all will be in harmony in the universe. If not, though, all **** will break loose! Besides with a RAMS victory over the hapless Bills, I will then have the opportunity to show my lovely better half just what a good and commendable sport I can truly be.

P.S. FWIW... My Buffalonian wife couldn't really care less about this epic battle as she seems to despise only the Miami Dolphins. :confuse:

Heh...whatever.

GO RAMS!!

Matthew Jones
12-06-2012, 06:43 PM
I'd be happy with Jones and Hunter.

Brent
12-06-2012, 06:59 PM
Dion Jordan would make that draft for me.

Smash28Dash34
12-06-2012, 08:49 PM
There's really no need for the Panthers to trade up. Lotulelei and Hankins have similar grades, and Joeckel is a legitimate option as well. We pissed away two second round picks to draft a player who may have been available at five, and even if not wasn't that much better than the other options. We have too many needs to hitch ourselves to a single player in that manner.

What Cigaro said. Star is not an elite enough prospect to trade 2 2nds for. We have way to many needs to be hitching our wagon on one player in this draft. Remember we don't have a 3rd in this draft either. We would have Star and nothing else until the 4th round.

prock
12-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Fantastic Vikings draft.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2012, 10:12 PM
There's basically a 0% chance the Titans take a WR in the 1st.

Abaddon
12-07-2012, 03:47 AM
Prefer a pass rusher to a DT for Oakland, but prefer trading down to either.

Poz51
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
The thing is Pollard is almost a perfect fit for what the Ravens need/want at SS. Maybe in a few seasons when Pollard's contract is over and/or they don't keep him around Elam could move over to that role but I don't think that would be the best fit for him anyways, especially not in the role that the Ravens usually like the SS to have. Honestly I think they're going to stick with developing Christian Thompson (4th round pick last season, really raw but has some nice physical tools to work with) to take over for Reed in a few seasons and then go from there.

I got you, I totally disregarded Pollard in all lines of thought. Thank you for the thoughtful intelligent feedback I appreciate it!!

Miaoww
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
The new Carolina GM would be fired on the spot.

We're not one superstar player away from competing. We lack depth AND talent. Can't afford to trade away picks

Poz51
12-07-2012, 11:58 AM
Bad pick for the Colts. Give them the higher rated pass rusher LB Dion Jordan. He would give them a versatile pass rusher with great length that we do not have.

I actually have Barr rated higher, and although it will be interesting to see how they both truely measure out, is +2 inches and -5-10 pounds that much of a difference? I have Barr as a much more tenacious passrusher, who has fewer concerns IMO against the run and I think has a better feel for the game, Jordan is better in pass pro IMO, but if rushing the passer is the difference maker, I will take Barr at this point, although this is just my initial thoughts, a long way to go. The difference in current length is irrelevant IMO, unless they being looked at for the NBA draft.

Poz51
12-07-2012, 12:29 PM
I love that KC draft.

I'd love it even more if it were Buffalo's draft... At least Wilson in the first that is....

Poz51
12-07-2012, 12:41 PM
I'd be fine with that...

You better be... :spam:

Poz51
12-07-2012, 01:01 PM
There's really no need for the Panthers to trade up. Lotulelei and Hankins have similar grades, and Joeckel is a legitimate option as well. We pissed away two second round picks to draft a player who may have been available at five, and even if not wasn't that much better than the other options. We have too many needs to hitch ourselves to a single player in that manner.

I would disagree in that I dont have Lotulelei and Hankins with similar grades at all. Star still produced constantly with double and triple teams all season, being the only guy worth blocking on Utahs D-line, and Hankins while drawing double teams had much more talent around him, and I think under-performed and actually am expecting him to drop once people start focusing on the tape. Maybe its because I just watched him against Wisconsin, in which he was physically dominated by one blocker most of the game. When he choses to be, he can be dominate, but then again, thats when he choses to be. Star IMO always choses to be. I think Hankins skill set is phenominal, but I worry about him when he starts collecting that check, and the season roles into November and fatigue starts taking over. If they sit pat, IMO the Raiders take Starr, and the Iggles take Joeckel. So IMO the trade is much better than the other options, but that is my opinion (I like talent and production more than talent and potential).
As for having too many other needs; that is something I can sink my teeth into. Makes alot of sense, my question to you is what are your top needs for the Panthers?

Poz51
12-07-2012, 01:08 PM
GO RAMS!!

Dear ArkyRamsFan;3203276,

I appreciate the response, and while I have no more time right now to respond I will soon, and look forward to it. Please check back, I look forward to our impending conversation... :evil_laugh:

Sincerely,
Poz51

T-RICH49
12-07-2012, 01:38 PM
FANTASTIC KC draft!!

ArkyRamsFan
12-07-2012, 01:58 PM
Dear ArkyRamsFan;3203276,

I appreciate the response, and while I have no more time right now to respond I will soon, and look forward to it. Please check back, I look forward to our impending conversation... :evil_laugh:

Sincerely,
Poz51

Poz51,

Good to hear from you. I anxiously await your reply to my post.

BTW have you ever considered the similarities between the Rams and the Bills. Seems both teams have a lot of same pro's and con's.

P.S. Where did you get the numbers 3203276 from?

BallerT1215
12-07-2012, 06:06 PM
I'm not as high on Nassib as other but wouldnt complain about landing Manti

RochesterRox19
12-07-2012, 06:23 PM
Te'o falling to Buffalo and Syracuse's QB becoming our QB of the future......

Why do I feel like you must live in my area? :p

Miaoww
12-07-2012, 08:51 PM
I would disagree in that I dont have Lotulelei and Hankins with similar grades at all. Star still produced constantly with double and triple teams all season, being the only guy worth blocking on Utahs D-line, and Hankins while drawing double teams had much more talent around him, and I think under-performed and actually am expecting him to drop once people start focusing on the tape. Maybe its because I just watched him against Wisconsin, in which he was physically dominated by one blocker most of the game. When he choses to be, he can be dominate, but then again, thats when he choses to be. Star IMO always choses to be. I think Hankins skill set is phenominal, but I worry about him when he starts collecting that check, and the season roles into November and fatigue starts taking over. If they sit pat, IMO the Raiders take Starr, and the Iggles take Joeckel. So IMO the trade is much better than the other options, but that is my opinion (I like talent and production more than talent and potential).
As for having too many other needs; that is something I can sink my teeth into. Makes alot of sense, my question to you is what are your top needs for the Panthers?

Where do I begin?

Essentials:

DT - D. and R. Edwards have done a solid job this year, but they're bandages on a gaping wound. They're also both 30+. Hardy, Johnson and the surprising Alexander all need help from the interior of the D-line to increase their effectiveness.

RG - Hangartner started there this year. He was mediocre. Once Kalil went down he shifted to C and we've had a revolving door there. A good RG (or LG and switch Silatolu) would make a world of difference.

LT - It's sad to see, but Gross isn't the player he used to be. He's the wrong side of 30 and he's being paid like an elite player. Bell is doing a fine job at RT so there's no need to shift Gross their either.

FS - We don't have one. Nakamura is awful. After him it's STs players. Godfrey isn't the best SS either, but he's going to be tough to shift on the contract Hurney gave him.


Gravy picks (Positions I'd like to improve/if the player is BPA it's a no-brainer):

TE - I'd really like a complete TE to offset Olsen. Newton and the Panthers have been at their most effective when playing the 2 TE set. Someone that can block well and catch the ball would be nice. At the moment we only have Barnidge (who can catch) and Hartsock (who can't block).

CB - Gamble, Norman, Thomas are the top three. I can't see Munnerlyn staying (nor should he). We certainly need a 4th guy (or a 2nd guy and bump everyone down depending on talent), but it's something that the Panthers can wait and see on.

WR - There's no elite WR for Newton to throw to. Smith isn't the same guy he was 2 or 3 years ago. LaFell is stepping up, but his inconsistency makes him a #3 rather than a #2. Behind him is a host of guys that haven't done much.

OLB - Beason is going to have to shift to WLB if he wants to start, Kuechly is the better player. Davis is 30 and has had his knee re-constructed 3 times. Anderson is a JAG and should be a cap casualty. The Panthers have struggled to seal the edge against the run and also have had very little pass rush from the LBs. If there's a great OLB available I'd be tempted - NOT in the first though!

K - You don't tend to draft these guys, but the Panthers sorely need a reliable one.


So as you can see. In my opinion there are at least 7 positions that could do with an upgrade. We traded our 3rd round pick for Alexander last year (which has proven to be a bargain) so that limits our options here. Trading away a whole host of picks, both present and future, would hamstring the team.

I happen to think that Star is much better than Hankins, but he's not going to change the franchise on his own. At #5 the Panthers should wait and see. If Star and Joeckel are gone then you shop the pick to a team needing a QB (they always get over drafted) or you just go off your draft board. Hankins wouldn't be a deal breaker with the new rookie salary cap.

thebow305
12-08-2012, 12:53 AM
Seems a little high for Cordarrelle at the moment, but I love the guy and the rest of the draft is great, so what the heck!

Poz51
12-08-2012, 07:22 PM
Poz51,

Permit me to comment on your Rams draft with a simple word....NOOOOOOOO!!....and hell no. My reasoning is as follows:
I appreciate the reasoning

1.) I agree with you that this could be the year that Fish finally goes OL in the first round, but this is ONLY because he has multiple picks in the first round. If he didn't he would not draft an offensive lineman.
With as bad as the offensive line has performed from what I have seen so far, you still think he would refuse to make it a priority and address it in the first round? I have not seen all the Rams games and will watch intently tomorrow, as I think the Bills defensive line is finally starting to live up to their potential. At this point do you think guard or tackle is more likely? I get the history of Fisher and Oline in the draft, but dont you have to see the result on the field and say: "Maybe this is the time for change?"

2.) There is next to no way in Hades the Rams take TWO OL in the first round.
I am sure that it will not happen, but like many poor personnel choices before by numerous other teams, I think it is silly, and not addressing the oline early in the draft proves foolish in the long run and stunts young quarterbacks development IMO, which is what I have seen with the couple of Rams games I have seen, not that I am the all knowing Rams guru. But that is me... Now again, maybe they have addressed some of the issues and I am ignorant too it, and in that case, I usually defer to an well spoken fan such as yourself, or coordinatorO (in the case of the Ravens) as you'z guys make good points, clearly are intelligent, and watch more of your teams, while knowing your front offices more than myself.

3.) The Rams if anything are looking to trade DOWN with at least one if not both of their first round picks. So this trade up ain't gonna happen...
I am sure they are, seems like everyone is nowadays. This is just my opinion, but one elite olineman makes a significant improvement to the line, but two can tell you a ton about you skill guys and is a great evaluation method, which is the direction I was going in with the Rams first round in this mock. I relate it to the Jets, the oline with Mangold and Fergy, help out the guards, but show the true weakness of their RT, and with Holmes out and Keller at times as well, shows me the weakness at RB, and depth at WR, because outside of the RT breaking down, he usually has time, but outside of Kerley occasionally getting seperation, I have seen none. I am not a Sanchez guy, but IMO this season is by no means an 100% him issue, he does not have the tools around him.

4.) Speaking of your trade it makes little to no sense on multiple levels.

A.) We give up way too much for a team with as many holes as we have.
That might be true, although that seems to be the company line with every fan base. Again I dont know enough about the Rams to make any sort of arguement that would not sound ignorant. What are their needs in you opinion? Top 5 lets say...

B.) According to your mock we could've just stayed at 15 and picked a LOT like Eric Fisher and saved all of our picks. Huh?!? Is Lewan really that much better than Fisher? And, if so, is he worth what is tantamount to a King's ransom to get him?
Lewan IMO is a franchise type impact player, and Fisher has that type of potential, but needs work. Lewan I can see coming in and starting day one, Fisher not so much. Maybe in time. Rep for using tantamount in a response :) I do think coming out of this draft with Lewan and Womack would be a significant improvement to the Rams offensive line, like a score 20+ points against the 9ers impact.

5.) If (and it is a big 'IF') we were to trade up for an OL it had better be for a guy named Luke Joeckel.
I have loved Joeckel since last year, and would love to make that happen for ya'll.

6.) Many do not know this but the Rams actually like Rodger Saffold as their LOT. The only issue with him has been health but since he has returned to the starting lineup he has played well.
This I did not know and look forward to seeing in person tomorrow.

Since the Rams are in Buffalo this Sunsday I suggest you watch Saffold a bit and see how he does. You may be surprised....
I will, and I may...

Finally, this game against the Bills is a MUST win for the Rams for reasons beyond the usual trite stuff like playoffs or a winning record, etc. You see my lovely wife is FROM Buffalo ( grew up in Cheektowaga - try saying that 5x's quickly) and it is absolutely imperative that we dunk the Bills in the Niagara River or is it Lake Erie? Well, no matter. For continued peace in our home it is necessary that I..er..the RAMS win convincingly so all will be in harmony in the universe. If not, though, all **** will break loose! Besides with a RAMS victory over the hapless Bills, I will then have the opportunity to show my lovely better half just what a good and commendable sport I can truly be.
I am from Rochester, and went to school and lived in Buffalo for 6 years including living in "Cheektovegas" for 2 of those years. One of our favorite pre-dehydration games was Cheektowaga tongue twister, similar to saying it 5x's. Lol, dunking them in either is really one in the same. By the way, if your wife's (who must be a strong woman to still be a Bills fan) last name is Pfender I will bug out. Good luck tomorrow, I know how the "better half" can be, mine is a Skins fan...

P.S. FWIW... My Buffalonian wife couldn't really care less about this epic battle as she seems to despise only the Miami Dolphins. :confuse:
Although the Patriots are my current most despised team, Miami has taken the cake for years, including a interesting parking lot altercation at the Ralph, and I understand her distain for the Phins as I still celebrate every victory, and get ill with every loss more than any other team.

Heh...whatever.

GO RAMS!!
I have noticed that their are similarities between our two beloved teams, fortunately yours has been on the winning side of the Superbowl, and I can only dream that one day the Bills will do the same, and yours again as well.
As for that weird number, I dont know, when I backspaced your post, it must have been part of your quote from the reply and I thought at that exact second for some reason that it was part of your name... Always in a rush... My apologies if any offense outside of general confusion resulted...
Having said that, good luck to the Rams tomorrow, I appreciate your insight, as well as all future correspondence!! Once again, I am out of time and hope harmony in your home is the result of the game regardless,

Poz51

I Billieve...

eliasrapp98
12-08-2012, 07:51 PM
The Eagles don't need an OT... Next year we have Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Watkins, Herremans. That's fine.

kBuc5
12-08-2012, 08:10 PM
I like the Banks pick to the Bucs but I would like Milliner better and would bet that we would draft him over Banks if given the choice.

Poz51
12-10-2012, 11:35 AM
What Cigaro said. Star is not an elite enough prospect to trade 2 2nds for. We have way to many needs to be hitching our wagon on one player in this draft. Remember we don't have a 3rd in this draft either. We would have Star and nothing else until the 4th round.

Far enough, no more trade up for the Panthers. I do still contend that Hankins in the top 5 is a mistake.

Poz51
12-10-2012, 11:38 AM
There's basically a 0% chance the Titans take a WR in the 1st.

Who would you take at this spot in this mock?
Do you worry about Britt's off the field behavior, and/or potential actions?

Poz51
12-10-2012, 11:42 AM
The new Carolina GM would be fired on the spot.

We're not one superstar player away from competing. We lack depth AND talent. Can't afford to trade away picks

I do see Star as an impact player, but I do get the lack of picks issue with Carolina. How would Keenan Allen sound at 5? I know people like Hankins there, but IMO they would be better off, as I dont see him as a top 5 guy.

Poz51
12-10-2012, 11:54 AM
Te'o falling to Buffalo and Syracuse's QB becoming our QB of the future......

Why do I feel like you must live in my area? :p

I had a feeling more people would call me a homer, and I could see why. Although I do not live in Rochester anymore, I am from there...
I could see Te'o going anywhere in the top 15, Patrick Willis fell to 11, and I think athletically he is superior to Te'o, and just about even in all other aspects. Although as a Bills fan I was "bangning on the table" for him, even if they had to trade up, the front office at the time was not listening. Anyway, if he can fall to 11, IMO Te'o falling to 11 is not that much of a stretch.
I like Nassib alot, he is one of my sleepers, pro-style offense, 3 year starter, improved every year, a field general with a strong arm, who makes good decisions, my #2 QB right now, I think he is terribly under rated right now, with many in the national media picking him apart with their infinite tunnel vision wisdom.

Poz51
12-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Where do I begin?

Essentials:

DT - D. and R. Edwards have done a solid job this year, but they're bandages on a gaping wound. They're also both 30+. Hardy, Johnson and the surprising Alexander all need help from the interior of the D-line to increase their effectiveness.

RG - Hangartner started there this year. He was mediocre. Once Kalil went down he shifted to C and we've had a revolving door there. A good RG (or LG and switch Silatolu) would make a world of difference.

LT - It's sad to see, but Gross isn't the player he used to be. He's the wrong side of 30 and he's being paid like an elite player. Bell is doing a fine job at RT so there's no need to shift Gross their either.

FS - We don't have one. Nakamura is awful. After him it's STs players. Godfrey isn't the best SS either, but he's going to be tough to shift on the contract Hurney gave him.


Gravy picks (Positions I'd like to improve/if the player is BPA it's a no-brainer):

TE - I'd really like a complete TE to offset Olsen. Newton and the Panthers have been at their most effective when playing the 2 TE set. Someone that can block well and catch the ball would be nice. At the moment we only have Barnidge (who can catch) and Hartsock (who can't block).

CB - Gamble, Norman, Thomas are the top three. I can't see Munnerlyn staying (nor should he). We certainly need a 4th guy (or a 2nd guy and bump everyone down depending on talent), but it's something that the Panthers can wait and see on.

WR - There's no elite WR for Newton to throw to. Smith isn't the same guy he was 2 or 3 years ago. LaFell is stepping up, but his inconsistency makes him a #3 rather than a #2. Behind him is a host of guys that haven't done much.

OLB - Beason is going to have to shift to WLB if he wants to start, Kuechly is the better player. Davis is 30 and has had his knee re-constructed 3 times. Anderson is a JAG and should be a cap casualty. The Panthers have struggled to seal the edge against the run and also have had very little pass rush from the LBs. If there's a great OLB available I'd be tempted - NOT in the first though!

K - You don't tend to draft these guys, but the Panthers sorely need a reliable one.


So as you can see. In my opinion there are at least 7 positions that could do with an upgrade. We traded our 3rd round pick for Alexander last year (which has proven to be a bargain) so that limits our options here. Trading away a whole host of picks, both present and future, would hamstring the team.

I happen to think that Star is much better than Hankins, but he's not going to change the franchise on his own. At #5 the Panthers should wait and see. If Star and Joeckel are gone then you shop the pick to a team needing a QB (they always get over drafted) or you just go off your draft board. Hankins wouldn't be a deal breaker with the new rookie salary cap.

Roger that... I appreciate the feedback :) Very well done.

Poz51
12-12-2012, 09:02 AM
Seems a little high for Cordarrelle at the moment, but I love the guy and the rest of the draft is great, so what the heck!

Cordarrelle is a guy I like a lot, and right now in terms of general draft stock is high, but I have him as the 2nd reciever in the draft, and I think has the highest ceiling. I liked the mock for Miaimi, and like how they have postioned themselves in this draft. Thanks for the feedback!!

Miaoww
12-12-2012, 10:32 PM
I do see Star as an impact player, but I do get the lack of picks issue with Carolina. How would Keenan Allen sound at 5? I know people like Hankins there, but IMO they would be better off, as I dont see him as a top 5 guy.

It's a tough pick to make.

I don't really like Hankins or Allen at #5, but obviously you have to mock someone to them!

I'm sure the Panthers are hoping for a trade down (if they don't finish lower than #5).