PDA

View Full Version : 2013 NFL Draft Thread


mdmgrand
01-12-2013, 04:07 PM
With the new coach bringing in an attacking offense and most likely a 3-4 attacking defense, this is who I would like the Browns to target with each of their picks. (I'm including the 7th rounder that they will likely receive from the Eagles for that training camp trade)

Round 1, Pick 6:
Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia
- Jones may end up going 2nd or 5th overall to the Jaguars or the Lions. But I think ultimately he will end up being available at the 6th pick. Jones will immediately step in and play opposite of Jabaal Sheard at OLB. Sheard's primary duty will be to rush the passer, while Jones will play a jack-of-all-trades position. This could be a deadly combination on third down if Sheard can make the transition.

Round 3, Pick 6:
Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB, UConn
- Wreh-Wilson has the size (6-0, 190) and the athleticism (4.45) of a quality starter. Hopefully the Browns resign and try Brown at FS. Wreh-Wilson could jump in opposite of Haden and allow Skrine to strictly play nickel, where he is decent (while horrible on an island).

Round 4, Pick 7:
J.C. Tretter, OG, Cornell
- A small school prospect who is rising up boards. He started as a Tight End and has put on over 65 lbs of mass, but in the NFL he will need to get stronger. He could start out as a great pulling technician to help the run game out, while providing good pass protection.

Round 5, Pick 6:
Michael Williams, TE, Alabama
Williams has the size and experience to develop into a great blocking Tight End. He is underrated as a pass catcher, but this pick would essentially be for Double Tight sets with Cameron as the primary receiver and Williams as a blocking counterpart.

Round 6, Pick 7:
Rontez Miles, FS, California (PA)
- This guy looks the part with decent size and athleticism. He is a fearless, big hitter across the middle, but he will have to adjust to the athleticism in the NFL.

Round 7, Pick 4 (From Eagles):
Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech
- I am sick of the sub par punting over the past couple of years. Hodges needs to go, and the Browns need to try to get either Allen or Quinn Sharp in the 7th. There looks to be three draftable Punters in this year's class, and the Jaguars proved that a rookie punter can step in and be a force in field position (the Jags just couldn't do anything else right)

Round 7, Pick 6
Marquise Goodwin, WR, Texas
- Goodwin is a phenomenal athlete qualifying for the Olympics in the long jump (over 27 feet, which is amazing considering he is 5-9, and he ran a 10.24 100m dash). With Goodwin and Benjamin on special teams and using him sporadically in four or five wide sets, the Browns would truly be a vertical team.

Iamcanadian
01-17-2013, 02:02 PM
Jarvis would be nice if he can get past the doctors. His medical situation will ultimately decide his draft fate. For me, it is far too early in the draft process to get any kind of read on rounds 2-7.

Brown Leader
01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
Cudders, hope you don't mind, but I wanted to repost this here to help get this discussion going.
Well, Chud reiterated to the media in Cleveland that it’s going to be a mixed defense. Meanwhile, Horton told the media in Arizona that it’s going to be a 3-4 that mirrors Pittsburgh’s. He also said during the radio interview that he would’ve been able to add Norv Turner to his staff if he was promoted in Arizona. Did Chud hire Horton? Or did Banner and Haslam pull rank and hand Horton to Chud? And is Horton bitter that Chud got the Browns job over him? It’s clear there are some things that still need to be worked out. A star-studded coaching staff is useless if it’s divided. The head coach sets the scheme. The coordinators work within that scheme. The position coaches teach to the responsibilities of that scheme. There’s little room for a rogue attitude.

Now, at this point, it might be a misunderstanding. I don’t know. Chud might be speaking in generalities about the gradual incorporation of even front concepts within an odd front. Which, given the homogenization of defense in the NFL, isn’t inconceivable. I’ve seen Arizona run some even front. But Horton’s definition of a mixed defense might be a unit that lacks a “base” front altogether. The origin of their differences doesn’t matter. It just needs to be addressed and corrected as soon as possible. Regardless, this seems to be the first communication barrier that needs to be hurdled.

As far as personnel goes, I think our front seven fits the switch. We’ve got a lot of big bodies and bulk. Once OTA’s and mini-camps and training camp start, we can move some pieces around and find their best fit. I think we’ve got a flexible line. I could see multiple unit combinations. Our starting trench size is rare for a team transitioning to an odd front.

The biggest need is a rush linebacker. Given the makeup of this class, we need to capitalize and hit on a rusher with the sixth overall pick. Sheard could be a solid part of our edge force as long as he works on hand usage and re-routing techniques. But I don’t see high upside there, so adding an explosive pass rusher with potential opposite him makes sense. Horton is a self-described aggressive coordinator. An edge presence would be put to good use.

Past that, I expect the Mallett rumors have serious merit. Lombardi loved the kid coming out of Arkansas and remains close friends with Belichick. Chud professed his desire to run a vertical offense in his initial presser. Mallett’s arm talent fits those concepts and meets that vision. New England doesn’t have a fourth, fifth, or sixth in the upcoming draft. The links between the Browns and Patriots make sense. New England gets the selections they’re starving for and Cleveland gets their future quarterback. I’m guessing for a multi-pick package. A framework of something like a fourth- and sixth-rounder in 2013 and a second-rounder in 2014. Perhaps a non-pick piece, too. Or our third instead of the fourth.

That leaves a rough, rough draft along the lines of:

RD 1 (6) – Barkevious Mingo | OLB | LSU
I doubt Damontre Moore lasts to the sixth pick. Jarvis Jones has to clear his medical concerns and could be vulnerable to a slight slip. That leaves Mingo or Jordan. From what I’ve seen so far, I like Mingo’s projectables more.

RD 3 (68) – Larry Warford | RG | Kentucky
It’s hard to get a read on these bigger guards. It wouldn’t surprise me if Warford didn’t last this long. But we’ve seen the guard position get devalued and pushed down, too. I would love to grab a massive mauler like him right here. We need interior push.

RD 5 (132) – Michael Williams | TE | Alabama or Brad Wing | P | LSU
It’s important that a tight end gives their guard short corners to get around on wide runs. Williams is a powerful in-line blocker and profiles as a valuable part of the tight end rotation.

I wouldn’t mind Wing either. Our punting situation hasn’t been the greatest and Wing is a worthwhile prospect. I love a left-footed punter, too.

RD 7 (196) – Cornelius Washington | OLB | Georgia
Just a depth pick. He was an underachiever at Georgia, but I’ve heard intriguing things about his athleticism. Stash him and perhaps develop him as part of a pass rusher stable.

I wouldn’t mind closing with a class like that. Given the shortage of selections, free agents would need to step into starter or stopgap roles. But we have the cap space to do it. A centerfielder is critical and I still think Phillips is the most realistic option on the market. Sign a man corner as a number two. Perhaps squeeze the Steelers on Keenan Lewis? Perhaps Greg Toler because he’s familiar with Horton? Extend Haden and Mack. Re-sign Dawson, Watson, Brown, and perhaps Cribbs. Add a sub-package, coverage specialist at linebacker like Lawson if possible. And then fill out the rest of the roster with flexible, specialized short-term deals.

QB1: Mallett
QB2: Weeden or Colt
RB1: Richardson
RB2: Hardesty / ???
WR1: Gordon
WR2: Little
WR3: Benjamin / ???
TE1: Watson
TE2: Jordan
TE3: Williams
LT: Thomas
LG: Greco
C: Mack
RG: Warford
RT: Schwartz

DL: Taylor
DL: Rubin
DL: Winn
DL: Hughes
DL: Kitchen
DL: Rucker
OLB: Sheard / ???
ILB: JMJ / Lawson / Gocong
ILB: Jackson / Robertson
OLB: Mingo
CB1: Haden
CB2: Free Agent CB
NB: Brown / Skrine / ???
FS: Phillips
SS: Ward

K: Dawson
P: ???

Looking at the above roster, I think that’s a solid, competitive football team with room to grow. Now, it’s as premature as it gets, and the additions are quite fluid, but it shows that potential exists for this team to be aggressive and target and attack its problem areas in an effort to improve.

Interesting. Horton comments might be revealing some bitterness but I'm still too psyched about the hire to get down about it. Bottom line is Horton knows he needs success here to get HC consideration again so it's all good.

Mingo vs Jordan is a great debate. Someone brought this up in the draft forum and it was pitched. Because the skill sets are so identical I think it comes down to intangibles. now we get to speculate who Lombardi would like more.

Going by some Lombardi comments, I think he thinks WR is a position of need. He mentioned after the Skins game that no one could win 1 on 1 on the outside. Tony Pauline also commented recently that he thought the Browns would look at WR after their first pick. At OG, Greco stepped in and really played better then Pinkston. I think the former 3rd rounder might have found himself a long term starting position. And I haven't heard much on the med status of Pinkston but potentially he's still in future plans.

Steelers are well over the cap and CB Lewis will demand big money imo. That would be a great signing. And Mallett? I was a big fan when he came out. He's humbled himself to a degree in New England and we haven't heard anything negative out of him as yet. I figured he'd go for a conditional 14' pick-a 2nd rounder with the chance of it becoming a 1st. But your right, BB could use more choices in this draft.

I was holding off comment on Blidi Wreh-Wilson until I saw him at senior practices. He really struggled but then looked very good in the game. Still not sold on him.

My most recent mock went something like this...

1. Dion Jordan /OLB/ Oregon
It's close but right now I side more on Jordan then Mingo. I just didn't like the way Mingo looked against quality OTs for most of the year. But really, I could go either way. Jordan makes plays all over the field, looking like a 6'7 safety at times. Mingo has shown more physicality though. I don't think Lombardi or Banner would be comfortable with Jones.

3. Stedman Bailey /WR/ West Virginia
Huge fan of Bailey since last season and if he makes it to the 3rd, I think he's a steal. Despite his size he's extremely physical at the los. I loved the way he physically beat up Mo Claiborne last year on running plays.

4. Duke Williams /FS/ Nevada
Hadn't watched any Nevada games this season but was intrigued by this guy in Mobile. Watched a couple games of his since and I like him. Reminds me a little of Brian Dawkins.

5. Brad Wing /P/ LSU
Wasn't Hodges in or almost in the pro bowl his first year starting? what happened?

6. Adrien Bushell /CB/ Louisville
Stood out to me when I watched them vs UConn. Followed him a little more and liked what I saw.

7. Matt Stankiewitch /OC/ Penn State
Another guy who flashed when I watched them play. I've always considered Mack a little overrated and he's due a new contract after this season. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not resigned.

Brown Leader
01-28-2013, 12:50 PM
Teammate of Wreh-Wilson would be a perfect fit in Horton's defense.

Sio Moore /ILB/ UConn
Followed him and OLB Trevardo Willliams most of the year. He looked very good at the Shrine and Senior practices and games. He looks like a type that could fill a similar role as Daryl Washington, especially as a blitzer.

Cudders
01-31-2013, 04:55 AM
Cudders, hope you don't mind, but I wanted to repost this here to help get this discussion going.

Not at all.

Interesting. Horton comments might be revealing some bitterness but I'm still too psyched about the hire to get down about it. Bottom line is Horton knows he needs success here to get HC consideration again so it's all good.

Oh, donít get me wrong. I still love the hire. The aggressive potential is salivating. Weíve run a lot of conservative, vanilla defenses over the past decade. While Jauron did some admirable things in Cleveland, I think Hortonís aggressiveness sets him apart. The performance of a defense canít be measured with the same, time-honored benchmarks. More and more, itís becoming a practice of timeliness. Making big stops in big moments. Aggressive, unpredictable coordinators have the edge in those situations because thereís not a discernable pattern to glean and an opening to call the appropriate beater on a consistent basis. Heíll rotate right through the rolodex and bring pressure off that. Clouds, Skies, Cover 1, 2 Man Under, blitzes from the defensive backfield, etc.

And, as stated, he knows he needs to succeed here in order to land a job as a head coach. So I donít doubt his motivation to excel. Undermining Chud would be counterproductive. After reading a transcript of their dual-press conference, Iím inclined to chalk it up as a miscommunication. Horton said itís going to be an attacking, multi-front defense. Like the Cardinals. Or the Steelers. It appears the ďissueĒ stemmed from a differing definition of terminologies.

Mingo vs Jordan is a great debate. Someone brought this up in the draft forum and it was pitched. Because the skill sets are so identical I think it comes down to intangibles. now we get to speculate who Lombardi would like more.

At this point, Iíve just seen more of Mingo. I like Mingoís projectables quite a bit. The coaching staff at LSU didnít put him in a favorable position to showcase an NFL skill set. (Nor is it their job to do that.) Often, heís aligning on the strong side with an inside shade in a three-point stance. In the NFL, I would want to minimize his exposure to both guards and tackles. As an edge rusher with more two-point stance opportunities, I think his explosiveness could shine through. Having his feet under him to start his rush could remove some of his initial hesitance. I like his instincts for someone that picked up football as a high school junior, too. He finds the football and read-and-reacts well. There are some tackling and technique issues that need corrected, but pass rushers that leave college as finished products are rare, so Iím not knocking the kid too hard for that. To me, the most important attributes of a pass rusher are desire and determination. From what Iíve read, Mingoís motor isnít a question mark.

With regard to Jordan, I think he profiles better as a 4-3 SAM. Reminds me some of Lawson in that regard. Right now, I like him in that role quite a bit. The thing that worries me most about Jordan is weight. Iíve read reports that his weight dropped down to 226 lbs. during the season, so Iím not sure what kind of growth potential his frame can support. Thatís something the scouting staff will have to do their homework on. Adding and maintaining healthy weight can be a persistent problem for these hypermetabolic athletes. I donít love the prospect of an edge-setter that light against NFL tackles. I do love his coverage potential though. And his length and explosion could pose serious problems as a blitzer if utilized in a creative scheme. But I need to watch more cut-ups of him.

Going by some Lombardi comments, I think he thinks WR is a position of need. He mentioned after the Skins game that no one could win 1 on 1 on the outside. Tony Pauline also commented recently that he thought the Browns would look at WR after their first pick.

Given the above draft and free agent class, wide receiver can be short-listed in terms of future needs, I agree. I know Lombardi wasnít a fan of Josh Gordonís coming out, but Gordon can win one-on-oneís on the outside and stretch the field. Iím hopeful Lombardiís evaluation will change after watching the tape. If we want to be vertical, Gordon is going to be a big part of that plan. While Little struggled to start the season, I think he flashed enough to get another look as a ďnumber twoĒ. Benjamin is a speed demon with some potential. Wouldnít surprise me if heís relegated to a number four / return specialist role in the future though.

In general, Iím just a fan of attacking areas of a football team in the draft. In this draft, I would target improvement in the running game. Thereís a sizeable investment in Trent Richardson. Norv Turner likes to lean on a reliable running game. A running game helps whoeverís at quarterback and frees up a vertical passing game. The running game was deficient in doses because of shield-blockers starting along the interior. Give me a mauling guard, an in-line tight end, and a rejuvenated Richardson and letís see what kind of progress we can make on the ground.

Steelers are well over the cap and CB Lewis will demand big money imo. That would be a great signing.

I didnít make the immediate connection, but Hortonís familiar with Lewis, too. He was Lewisí position coach for two seasons in Pittsburgh before moving to Arizona. Might have even had a hand in picking him in the draft. It doesnít hurt having a little inside information and perspective on some of these free agent corners. Keenan Lewis, Greg Toler, Mike Jenkins, Terrance Newman, Derek Cox, Antoine Cason, Quentin Jammer, etc.

And Mallett? I was a big fan when he came out. He's humbled himself to a degree in New England and we haven't heard anything negative out of him as yet. I figured he'd go for a conditional 14' pick-a 2nd rounder with the chance of it becoming a 1st. But your right, BB could use more choices in this draft.

Youíre right. In this case, no press just might be good press.

Mallett fell because teams pegged him as an immature kid with potential drug abuse issues. His arm talent grades out much, much higher than a third-round level. Now, the million-dollar question is whether heís recovered from those labels and their stigma.

As referenced, the hope is that his freefall in the draft and backup duties have been humbling experiences. Mallettís spent two seasons in a strict culture. I donít know how his mentoring has been handled, but itís possible heís learned from one of the greatest of all-time through osmosis alone. Observing work habits, listening in the classroom, watching defensive patterns on the sideline, etc. If the management team is confident heís grown as a person, his position and upside make him a worthwhile risk.

Iíve heard rumblings about bringing Alex Smith into the organization. I donít know if I see it. I understand his ties to Norv, but Mallett is a stronger fit for Clevelandís profile. I think Smith is better than a good chunk of starting quarterbacks in the NFL because heís careful and smart. I just donít see the vertical-centric skill set that the new staff claims to covet that would make him a viable option here.

mdmgrand
02-10-2013, 02:48 PM
The reason I would want Jordan is for what he would do for passing defense in its entirety. He probably will never be a 10+ sack guy, but if you put him opposite of a pure rush backer like Sheard, Jordan is perfect as a pass rusher/coverage backer combination. Jordan's zone/man coverage skills are excellent for a guy his size, and would really help counter the athletic Tight End craze.

I've been pulling for Brad Wing and Michael Williams, but both will likely be taken in Round 5. The punting has been terrible for two years and Wing could step in and become a Top 10 punter immediately, maybe even Top 5. Williams would provide a great compliment to Cameron and has potential to become one of the top blocking TE's in the league. Either would be fantastic in Round 5.

Also I really hope the Browns pass on taking a WR in this draft. They should pick up a decent slot receiver in Free Agency. The two best case scenarios would be Danny Amendola or Greg Jennings. Both come with injury concerns and would probably become over-payed the minute they sign the contract, but I would like the aggressive move by the Front Office.

Brown Leader
02-12-2013, 01:03 PM
just some random things...

Sheard is not a great pass rusher. I don't know why so many analysts have him as the primary pass rusher in Horton's scheme. This past season, I think it's safe to say he was better on run defense.

And I'm not a fan of signing Paul Kruger to a big contract. He's not a top tier pass rusher. He's a lot like Jarrett Johnson in the Ravens scheme. He had a playoffs full of splash sacks and now he's being considered a big time OLB/DE. He's playing across from a former league defensive MVP in Suggs. Kruger/Sheard would be solid but definitely not special.

A lot of mocks have the Browns going CB with the first pick. I don't like taking Milliner at #6. Even if he eventually becomes a great player, he'll have his growing pains as a young player. He won't play as good as Brown did last year as a rookie. I think it makes much more sense to go with a solid FA CB, who's proven and in his prime. (Keenan Lewis)We don't have to project how a guy may or may not pan out and we get a solid CB for the next 4-5 seasons.

I disagree that Jordan won't be a 10+ sack guy. His problem is strength and technique (which is readily fixable) but he's got elite first step quickness and bend.

I'd like to see us make a play in FA for TE Fred Davis and WR Danario Alexander. Both carry some injury concerns but each were the best rec threats on their teams when 100% healthy. They might not be as coveted this off season because of the injury issues. It's well worth the risk. The Browns offfense needs more playmakers and experienced talent would help more then adding more rookies.

Right now, I'm favoring E.J. Manuel as a high upside guy to groom behind Weeden. It would be wasteful to replace Weeden after his rookie season. Give him an opportunity to start his 2nd season and see how much progress he makes with a better system and staff. He could be a valuable bargaining chip if a developing player like Manuel really shows promise.

My Browns draft right now looks like...

1. Dion Jordan OLB Oregon
2. E.J. Manuel QB FSU
3. Duke Williams FS Nevada
4. Bruce Taylor ILB Virginia Tech
5. Quinn Sharp P Oklahoma State
6. Chris Thompson RB FSU

stlouisfan37
02-12-2013, 03:23 PM
I hope you guys don't mind me chiming in on your board...

I like Jordan more than either Jones or Mingo. I think he does have the frame to play at #245. He has the athleticism to do anything you ask of him. More than anything, he has extremely uncommon coverage skills for a guy with his height & stature. I think that, with the evolution of the TE in the passing game, a similar movement will follow with linebackers...I call it the Coverbacker. Fast enough to handle a RB or WR (in short spaces) yet big enough to cover a TE on seam routes. Additionally, has all the tools to go the other way and rush the passer. A huge matchup problem for OC's, rather than the other way around.

Trust me on this one, you don't want Danario Alexander. It isn't a matter of him being "injury prone." His knee is permanenly injured, and he plays when it allows him to. He will never actually be healthy. This is really frustrating because you can never know what you can count on. He is a great fit for a team like Jacksonville, a team that will never invest heavily in their receiving corps.

I like Kruger a lot. He definitely benefitted from playing opposite Suggs, but not as much as some guys in the past, such as the guy in Minnesota who made a Pro Bowl opposite Jared Allen only to stink it up when he left. One thing you can always depend on with Kruger is that his motor never quits. I don't know if I would give him a huge contract, but he is more deserving of $8 million a year than a lot of guys out there.

I like Mike Williams too, but I think he is more of a 6th-7th rounder. It will depend a lot on what he runs. I love those big blockers, though. He looked more athletic that I thought he would at the Senior Bowl, and caught a beautiful TD pass from Manuel.

Iamcanadian
02-13-2013, 03:27 PM
just some random things...

Sheard is not a great pass rusher. I don't know why so many analysts have him as the primary pass rusher in Horton's scheme. This past season, I think it's safe to say he was better on run defense.

And I'm not a fan of signing Paul Kruger to a big contract. He's not a top tier pass rusher. He's a lot like Jarrett Johnson in the Ravens scheme. He had a playoffs full of splash sacks and now he's being considered a big time OLB/DE. He's playing across from a former league defensive MVP in Suggs. Kruger/Sheard would be solid but definitely not special.

A lot of mocks have the Browns going CB with the first pick. I don't like taking Milliner at #6. Even if he eventually becomes a great player, he'll have his growing pains as a young player. He won't play as good as Brown did last year as a rookie. I think it makes much more sense to go with a solid FA CB, who's proven and in his prime. (Keenan Lewis)We don't have to project how a guy may or may not pan out and we get a solid CB for the next 4-5 seasons.

I disagree that Jordan won't be a 10+ sack guy. His problem is strength and technique (which is readily fixable) but he's got elite first step quickness and bend.

I'd like to see us make a play in FA for TE Fred Davis and WR Danario Alexander. Both carry some injury concerns but each were the best rec threats on their teams when 100% healthy. They might not be as coveted this off season because of the injury issues. It's well worth the risk. The Browns offfense needs more playmakers and experienced talent would help more then adding more rookies.

Right now, I'm favoring E.J. Manuel as a high upside guy to groom behind Weeden. It would be wasteful to replace Weeden after his rookie season. Give him an opportunity to start his 2nd season and see how much progress he makes with a better system and staff. He could be a valuable bargaining chip if a developing player like Manuel really shows promise.

My Browns draft right now looks like...

1. Dion Jordan OLB Oregon
2. E.J. Manuel QB FSU
3. Duke Williams FS Nevada
4. Bruce Taylor ILB Virginia Tech
5. Quinn Sharp P Oklahoma State
6. Chris Thompson RB FSU

I think Jordan is a nice prospect but #6 is quite high for him but it isn't outside the realm of possibility. I seriously doubt Kruger ever reaches FA, he's far more likely to be franchised on a team loaded with older players.

Brown Leader
02-14-2013, 11:07 AM
I hope you guys don't mind me chiming in on your board...

I like Jordan more than either Jones or Mingo. I think he does have the frame to play at #245. He has the athleticism to do anything you ask of him. More than anything, he has extremely uncommon coverage skills for a guy with his height & stature. I think that, with the evolution of the TE in the passing game, a similar movement will follow with linebackers...I call it the Coverbacker. Fast enough to handle a RB or WR (in short spaces) yet big enough to cover a TE on seam routes. Additionally, has all the tools to go the other way and rush the passer. A huge matchup problem for OC's, rather than the other way around.

Trust me on this one, you don't want Danario Alexander. It isn't a matter of him being "injury prone." His knee is permanenly injured, and he plays when it allows him to. He will never actually be healthy. This is really frustrating because you can never know what you can count on. He is a great fit for a team like Jacksonville, a team that will never invest heavily in their receiving corps.

I like Kruger a lot. He definitely benefitted from playing opposite Suggs, but not as much as some guys in the past, such as the guy in Minnesota who made a Pro Bowl opposite Jared Allen only to stink it up when he left. One thing you can always depend on with Kruger is that his motor never quits. I don't know if I would give him a huge contract, but he is more deserving of $8 million a year than a lot of guys out there.

I like Mike Williams too, but I think he is more of a 6th-7th rounder. It will depend a lot on what he runs. I love those big blockers, though. He looked more athletic that I thought he would at the Senior Bowl, and caught a beautiful TD pass from Manuel.

Yeah, I shouldn't have said Alexander at 100%. I mean when he was able to play last season with Norv and Rivers, he played like a #1 WR. The Browns have 2 young starters in Gordon and Little. Whatever DA could produce would be a plus. At best, he's stays healthy as he did in SD and gives great production, at worst he's a jag that didn't work out. I think it's worth it for a reasonable price.

Brown Leader
02-14-2013, 11:13 AM
I've looked more at E.J. Manuel recently trying to confirm that he's a high upside guy and I'm coming away more disappointed. The tools are there but he lacks the mindset to go and try and take over a game. He's entirely too passive. In FSU's biggest rivalry games, against Miami and Florida, he really shrunk in the moment.

If recent rumors are true that Tyler Wilson might drop into the 3rd, and Lombardi is intent on getting a QB, then he's our guy.

stlouisfan37
02-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Yeah, I shouldn't have said Alexander at 100%. I mean when he was able to play last season with Norv and Rivers, he played like a #1 WR. The Browns have 2 young starters in Gordon and Little. Whatever DA could produce would be a plus. At best, he's stays healthy as he did in SD and gives great production, at worst he's a jag that didn't work out. I think it's worth it for a reasonable price.

I agree, you just wouldn't want to overpay for him or expect him to be completely dependable. Personally, I think he should go see Dr. Andrews and look into becoming the first NFL player with a full knee replacement. While there is a high likelihood that this would end has career, someone will have to be the first, and if there was a chance it could solve his knee problems and allow him to play at 80% without all the injury problems it might be worth it.

keylime_5
02-28-2013, 03:06 PM
I'm all for high upside, raw pass rushers who are athletic freaks but didn't produce a ton in college. They seem to work out a lot. Jason Pierre-Paul, Aldon Smith, Chandler Jones being the 3 best recent examples, maybe Robert Quinn too. So....I'm all for Dion Jordan at #6, or Ezekiel Ansah if not him. Both of these guys are huge 6-6 outside pass rushers with closing speed and athleticism to fit in any system.

Of course if we don't go DE/OLB, obiviously Dee Milliner at #6 would be a no brainer. Big, super fast, long shutdown cornerback at Alabama who would be a great compliment to Haden.

I like the prospects of getting a good safety, WR, or guard in round 3. This is a deep draft at safety and WR, and I think it's pretty deep at OG too.

gpngc
02-28-2013, 03:10 PM
Cudders, have you given up on Weeden?

And I also think you make a great point about TRich. They drafted him high so they should concentrate on their running game to make it a strength. Could Warmack or Cooper be a good pick in the first round?

Cudders
03-01-2013, 07:26 AM
So, the rumor mill is churning. Reports circulating that Lombardi loves Geno Smith. Even told a South Florida radio station that he believes Smith is worth the number one overall pick when he was an NFL Network pundit. Donít know if he was pandering to a hometown kid at the time, but I tend to believe thereís substance behind these rumors.

Iíve watched a few games of Smith. Heís a prospect with a wild streak. Itís a little frustrating to watch. When that West Virginia offense is firing, he looks like a world-beater. When it struggles, his limitations are brought to the forefront. Iíve got three main issues with him.

First, progressions. Heís a deficient frontside-to-backside passer. This is a tough one. Often, that offense cuts the field and runs complementing route combinations to win separation. Itís a common college concept. So Geno is just executing offensive directives when heís throwing frontside. But when heís forced to throw the ball elsewhere, he is robotic moving to the backside and validating it. Not fluid through his reads. Thatís the evaluation. Now, itís important to find the subtext. WHY was Geno a deficient frontside-to-backside passer? Option A is Geno wasnít asked to do it, so the coaches didnít devote much time to it. The job of an NCAA coach isnít to prepare prospects for the NFL. Itís to win football games for their school. Thereís a taxing time constraint at the college level that doesnít exist for professionals. Perhaps Holgorsen felt that his time with Smith was best allocated in other focus areas. You canít fault someone for something thatís never been taught to them. Option B is Geno might have been coached some, but still struggles with the post-snap validation of a pre-snap read thatís not to the side of his primaries. Again, find the subtext. Is it an issue of low reps? Is it an issue of ineffective coaching techniques? It is an issue that Geno is cognizant of and working to correct? Not all college quarterbacks are Andrew Luck. Some need a little more seasoning. Thatís not a problem. Option C is Geno just might not be able to process a multitude of concepts at chaotic in-game speeds. And thatís the killer one.

Second, transitional footwork. Heís not a glider. Heís a bouncer. It chops and slows his drop. On a timing-based throw in the NFL, thatís disastrous. Also, his tendencies to bounce raise issues in the pocket, too. It lengthens re-set time. The best quarterbacks use short steps to keep a balanced, consistent base. The ball can come out quicker. With Smith, his base is unbalanced and inconsistent. When linebackers and linemen rush to their spot, the quarterback needs to get off it or get rid of it.

Third, pressure. This one is tied to the second. The longer the re-set, the quicker the pocket gets clipped, the tighter the throw becomes. He was able to escape some pressure wobblers in college because of gaping windows. The coverage, closing speed, and ball skills of an NFL defensive back is different. Thatís where the coaching needs to start. Correcting the feet. It starts from the base up. Heís got natural, quick feet. It depends on whether heís willing to work at it. It can take thousands of reps to fix.

From what Iíve heard, Genoís work ethic is tireless. Thatís a bonus. His idea of cutting loose after a win was preparing for next week. Thatís a bonus. Coaches love when their quarterbacks are their hardest workers because much of that position is mental. Genoís fate will be decided in interview rooms. Both when teams interview him and teams interview former coaches and teammates. Thatís where teams will get the best feel for what he was asked to do, how much he knows, how much he needs to learn, how well he learns, how driven he is, how he interacts with his teammates, how he interacts with his coaches, etc. Charles Davis suggested at the Combine that West Virginia coaches were frustrated that he didnít run more often. Thatís something that will be brought up. Is neglecting his athleticism a conscious decision? Was he ignoring the expressed wishes of his coaches? If Geno checks out in those meetings, it wouldnít surprise me if heís the pick. That said, Iím unconvinced that heís there at six. I think Oakland will be quite interested at three. Heís a similar prospect to Aaron Rodgers, so Iím sure Reggie McKenzieís interest is piqued at least.

Other than Geno, and assuming Ansah is gone, I have our big board looking something like:

1.) Dion Jordan | ROLB | Oregon | 6-6 ľ, 248 lbs, 4.60 (1.57 Split)
Iím a Jordan ďconvertĒ. I love his ceiling and skill set. I donít love the reports of being 226 lbs. during the season, but Oregon pushes a torrid pace in practice and Jordan was dealing with a torn labrum, too. If the trainers believed he could manage his weight on an NFL training regimen, his athleticism and length and experience in space gives him the edge.

2.) Barkevious Mingo | ROLB | LSU | 6-4 ľ, 241 lbs, 4.58 (1.55 Split)
Still a bigger fan of Mingo than most. I think this kid is a strict 3-4 OLB. His explosiveness is much better out of a two-point stance. Isolating him from LSUís scheme, heís got a lot of the translatable tools weíre looking for in a rush linebacker. Growth potential is just as concerning as Jordan.

3.) Chance Warmack | LG | Alabama | 6-2, 317 lbs, 5.49 (1.83 Split)
Adding Chance solidifies the left side of the line. Thomas / Warmack / Mack is as good as there is. Three Pro Bowl-caliber linemen. Warmack upgrades the left sideís punch in the running game. And a pass-protecting line of Thomas / Warmack / Mack / Greco / Schwartz goes far in keeping a quarterback clean. Lot of blue-chippers there.

4.) Jonathan Cooper | LG | North Carolina | 6-2 ⅛, 311 lbs, 5.07 (1.73 Split)
See above for Warmack.

5.) Xavier Rhodes | CB | Florida St. | 6-1 Ĺ, 210 lbs, 4.43 (1.47 Split)
If we dip into the free agent market for a pass rusher, we have the chance to add a corner opposite Haden. At this point, I value Rhodes over Milliner. Love Rhodesí blend of size, speed, and strength. Love his length. Superior positioning skills. I donít know if Iíd take Milliner in the top ten. I think heís overrated. Iíd consider Rhodes at six.

And, if we decide to leverage one of the left tackles or pass rushers into a trade down to pick up more picks in the depth of the draft, two mid-first prospects to target:

1.) Tyler Eifert | TE | Notre Dame | 6-5 Ĺ, 250 lbs, 4.68 (1.66 Split)
I think heís the best tight end in this class and it isnít even close. Love the hands, the catching radius, the jump-ball abilities, the athleticism, the improvement as a blocker, etc. Both Chud and Norv come from tight end backgrounds. The tight end is an evolving mismatch. Eifert profiles as a big-time weapon for the Browns. His value just isnít tied to the areas weíre picking.

2.) D.J. Fluker | RG | Alabama | 6-4 ⅝, 339 lbs, 5.31 (1.83 Split)
I think Flukerís got the skill set to kick inside to guard. Heís got massive mauling potential in that role. Not as polished as Warmack or Cooper, but the raw talent and upside is evident.

(Note: A mid-to-late round guard that Iím intrigued with is Edmund Kugbila from Valdosta State. Moved from Africa to United States. Started football in junior high. Received scholarship offers from Alabama, Florida, and Georgia, but didnít meet admission standards. Good size, long arms, decent movement skills. Appears to be a promising project.)

Cudders, have you given up on Weeden?

And I also think you make a great point about TRich. They drafted him high so they should concentrate on their running game to make it a strength. Could Warmack or Cooper be a good pick in the first round?

Given up is a tough term. I wasnít a fan of the pick in the first place. I never saw the polish that his age suggested. After his rookie season, I havenít seen enough from Weeden to abandon that belief. Is continued investment in the development of an overage quarterback worth the potential reward of having a stable signal-caller with a short shelf life? Thatís the bottom-line. In the end, I would explore all possible upgrades, but I wouldnít feel obligated to dump Weeden right now. I would need confidence in the quarterback. ďHeís better than what weíve gotĒ isnít enough of a reason. That line of thinking drafted Weeden. If none of the choices instill confidence, Iím fine with Weeden as a placeholder while the core coalesces. That said, if Weeden doesnít make significant strides in his second season, then an aggressive pursuit of a long-term replacement needs to be launched.

And, as I said, Iíd consider them quite a bit. Even harder if itís a trade down scenario.

Brown Leader
03-01-2013, 10:32 AM
Great breakdown. I wouldn't be upset with Smith at #6 but I don't like the thought of completely bailing on Weeden, not just yet. I'd wager rumored interest is an attempt to stir a trade up for him if he's there.

Charles Davis suggested at the Combine that West Virginia coaches were frustrated that he didn’t run more often. That’s something that will be brought up. Is neglecting his athleticism a conscious decision? Was he ignoring the expressed wishes of his coaches? If Geno checks out in those meetings, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s the pick. That said, I’m unconvinced that he’s there at six. I think Oakland will be quite interested at three. He’s a similar prospect to Aaron Rodgers, so I’m sure Reggie McKenzie’s interest is piqued at least.


Smith got on set with Davis and spoke of his reluctance to run, saying he was the facilitator of the offense and didn't want to selfishly take it over. That almost strikes me as a flag. Idk, but I'd prefer a guy who wants to take over games.

Latest Browns mock..

1. Cleveland Browns – Dion Jordan /OLB-DE/ Oregon:
Jarvis Jones is the perfect scheme fit but I think Lombardi/Banner won’t take the risk. Jordan’s got a similar skill set to previous busts like Jarvis Moss-Aaron Maybin, but I think his experience and ability in space separates him. It’s also remarkable that he put up such a solid season while playing half of it with that torn labrum. Had he stayed healthy, he'd have even more buzz. NFL comp. Julian Peterson (with 4 more inches)

3. Cleveland Browns - Duke Williams /S/ Nevada: (4.41) (1.50 split)
Browns have a great big hole at FS. Williams actually reminds me a little of Brian Dawkins.

4. Cleveland Browns – Jordan Reed* /TE/ Florida:
Might start creating buzz after the combine. An underrated guy that would be a steal in the 4th. NFL Comp. Aaron Hernandez

5. Cleveland Browns - Kevin Reddick /ILB/ North Carolina:
Solid but unspectacular inside LB does a little bit of everything.

Iamcanadian
03-01-2013, 12:50 PM
Great breakdown. I wouldn't be upset with Smith at #6 but I don't like the thought of completely bailing on Weeden, not just yet. I'd wager rumored interest is an attempt to stir a trade up for him if he's there.



Smith got on set with Davis and spoke of his reluctance to run, saying he was the facilitator of the offense and didn't want to selfishly take it over. That almost strikes me as a flag. Idk, but I'd prefer a guy who wants to take over games.

Latest Browns mock..

1. Cleveland Browns Ė Dion Jordan /OLB-DE/ Oregon:
Jarvis Jones is the perfect scheme fit but I think Lombardi/Banner wonít take the risk. Jordanís got a similar skill set to previous busts like Jarvis Moss-Aaron Maybin, but I think his experience and ability in space separates him. Itís also remarkable that he put up such a solid season while playing half of it with that torn labrum. Had he stayed healthy, he'd have even more buzz. NFL comp. Julian Peterson (with 4 more inches)

3. Cleveland Browns - Duke Williams /S/ Nevada: (4.41) (1.50 split)
Browns have a great big hole at FS. Williams actually reminds me a little of Brian Dawkins.

4. Cleveland Browns Ė Jordan Reed* /TE/ Florida:
Might start creating buzz after the combine. An underrated guy that would be a steal in the 4th. NFL Comp. Aaron Hernandez

5. Cleveland Browns - Kevin Reddick /ILB/ North Carolina:
Solid but unspectacular inside LB does a little bit of everything.

Not a bad draft IMO.

Brown Leader
03-25-2013, 02:15 PM
latest and greatest....EDIT

1 -12. TRADE Cleveland Browns (MIA) – Tyler Eifert /TE/ Notre Dame:
It's clear with the pursuit of Fred Davis that the Browns FO doesn't see Jordan Cameron as the guy at receiving TE. Chudzinski's offense revolves around the TEs to the degree that he's contemplating stitching K2 back together for a reunion. "Eifert is underrated and I think his stock will soar as the draft gets closer-starting with the combine." -Check. NFL Comp. Jason Witten

2 -24. TRADE Cleveland Browns (MIA) – Tyrann Mathieu* /CB/ LSU:
If he showed the same awareness and humility in team interviews he showed on NFLN, he’s going to get some team execs table banging for him. Possibly the best CB out of this class. NFL Comp. Brent Grimes

3 -6. Cleveland Browns – Duke Williams /S/ Nevada:
Browns have a great big hole at FS. Williams actually reminds me a little of Brian Dawkins. NFL Comp. Ryan Clark
*previous Jordan Reed

4 -7. Cleveland Browns – Tyler Wilson /QB/ Arkansas:
Wilson’s small hands and the beating he took as a senior are looking like deal breakers for his stock. The team that eventually drafts him is going to get a big steal. NFL comp. Matt Hasselbeck

5 -6. Cleveland Browns – Cobi Hamilton /WR/ Arkansas:
Huge fan of Hamilton. He was unstoppable for the Razorbacks this past season. NFL Comp. Denarius Moore

6 -5 Cleveland Browns - Earl Watford /OG/ James Madison:
Showed impressive movement skills at the combine.

6 -7 Cleveland Browns - Brett Maher /K-P/ Nebraska:
Dual kicking threat is a all round solid.



1.) Tyler Eifert | TE | Notre Dame | 6-5 Ĺ, 250 lbs, 4.68 (1.66 Split)
I think he’s the best tight end in this class and it isn’t even close. Love the hands, the catching radius, the jump-ball abilities, the athleticism, the improvement as a blocker, etc. Both Chud and Norv come from tight end backgrounds. The tight end is an evolving mismatch. Eifert profiles as a big-time weapon for the Browns. His value just isn’t tied to the areas we’re picking.


I'm wondering if Eifert could be in play with our first pick, even without a trade down.

Iamcanadian
03-25-2013, 04:38 PM
latest and greatest....

1 -12. TRADE Cleveland Browns (MIA) Ė Tavon Austin /WR-RB/ West Virginia:
With big money spent on the front 7 in FA and the dearth of quality CBs in this draft, I think Lombardi looks to upgrade the offense first by trading down and getting the draft's most explosive player. The value of a legitimate playmaker is higher then ever-Harvin/Cruz/Wallace. And similar to Harvin, Austin can be utilized everywhere on offense. NFL comp. (taller) Darren Sproles

2 -24. TRADE Cleveland Browns (MIA) Ė Tyrann Mathieu* /CB/ LSU:
If he showed the same awareness and humility in team interviews he showed on NFLN, heís going to get some team execs table banging for him. Possibly the best CB out of this class. NFL Comp. Brent Grimes

3 -6. Cleveland Browns Ė Jordan Reed* /TE/ Florida:
Might start creating buzz after the combine. An underrated guy that could be a steal. NFL Comp. Aaron Hernandez

4 -7. Cleveland Browns Ė Tyler Wilson /QB/ Arkansas:
Wilsonís small hands and the beating he took as a senior are looking like deal breakers for his stock. The team that eventually drafts him is going to get a big steal. NFL comp. Matt Hasselbeck

5 -6. Cleveland Browns Ė Duke Williams /S/ Nevada:
Browns have a great big hole at FS. Williams actually reminds me a little of Brian Dawkins.



I'm wondering if Eifert could be in play with our first pick, even without a trade down.

This draft I'm not at all crazy about. I love Austin but only as a 2nd rounder. He's way too small to ever be special, strickly a slot receiver who will always be 1 hit away from a career ending injury. No way I would ever touch him in round 1.

I also love Mathieu but he's a 3/4 th rounder at best considering his drug issues. Very talented guy but with a high drug bust issue.

The rest of the draft I like.

Brown Leader
03-25-2013, 09:48 PM
This draft I'm not at all crazy about. I love Austin but only as a 2nd rounder. He's way too small to ever be special, strickly a slot receiver who will always be 1 hit away from a career ending injury. No way I would ever touch him in round 1.

I also love Mathieu but he's a 3/4 th rounder at best considering his drug issues. Very talented guy but with a high drug bust issue.

The rest of the draft I like.

Changed it up already with Eifert but I disagree on Austin. I think he's tough enough to play a good bit of RB. I get the sense the good teams picking at the backend of the 2nd round might take a gamble on a playmaker like Mathieu. Especially Belichick.

Iamcanadian
03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
Changed it up already with Eifert but I disagree on Austin. I think he's tough enough to play a good bit of RB. I get the sense the good teams picking at the backend of the 2nd round might take a gamble on a playmaker like Mathieu. Especially Belichick.

Trouble with Mathieu isn't talent, he's got 1st round talent IMO, but he failed multiple drug tests at LSU before they finally had enough and booted him off the team. I think the absolute best he can hope for is round 3 but even that might be too high.

Austin is 5'8" and 174lbs. There is no way he can play RB in the NFL, end around on occassion but that is about it. He has great explosion and if he were 6'1", 200lbs., he would be a top 5 pick but he isn't and we saw last year with Wilson, that if you are small, you won't get picked high in the draft no matter how talented you are.

Brown Leader
04-23-2013, 11:10 AM
FWIW 2013 12 questions draft game. copy/paste-answer. :0
Last year's. (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49421&page=4)



1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #6, would be? Sheldon Richardson If you could trade back to #11, your first choice there would be? same

2. If the guy you covet most at #6 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be? Tyler Eifert.

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #6? Dee Milliner

4. If the Browns could trade back and pick up a 2nd rounder, say #45, who would your first choice there be? Tyrann Mathieu And first choice at #68? Shamarko Thomas

5. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? Xavier Rhodes

6. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Datone Jones

7. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Kiki Mingo

8. If you had to pick one prospect, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? Sheldon Richardson

9. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Tyrann Mathieu

10. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Tyler Wilson

11. What current guy on the roster do you think will have a breakout season in 13'? Craig Robertson

12. What current guy on the roster do you think will have disappointing 13' season? Phil Taylor

Iamcanadian
04-23-2013, 04:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW 2013 12 questions draft game. copy/paste-answer. :0
Last year's.



1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #6, would be? Dion Jordan If you could trade back to #11, your first choice there would be? Tavon Austin

2. If the guy you covet most at #6 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be? Dee Milliner.

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #6? Ziggy Ansah

4. If the Browns could trade back and pick up a 2nd rounder, say #45, who would your first choice there be? Robert Woods And first choice at #68? Shamarko Thomas

5. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? Ziggy Ansah

6. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Sylvester Williams

7. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Ziggy Ansah

8. If you had to pick one prospect, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? Luke Joeckel

9. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Kyle Long

10. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Luke Marquardt

11. What current guy on the roster do you think will have a breakout season in 13'? Josh Gordon

12. What current guy on the roster do you think will have disappointing 13' season? Greg Little

keylime_5
04-24-2013, 12:46 AM
Two days away and I'm trying to figure out what we'll do at 6. It's getting clearer, but still I really have no idea what we'll do with that pick.

This is the likely top 4 (if not in this order, then definitely these 4 players at least):

1-KC-Joeckel (or Fisher)
2-JAC-Fisher (or Joeckel)
3-OAK-Floyd
4-PHI-Jordan

now Johnson could go 4th but I doubt it. What Detroit does at 5 would then hold the key to our pick. If they go Ansah which there is a lot of rumor that they would in this scenario, then Johnson falls to 6 and we can (and I think will) trade down with a team like Miami or San Diego. If Detroit takes Johnson, then we take the top player on our board.

Now say we are picking at 6 and Johnson is gone. We are stuck most likely and have to pick probably between these guys:

Ansah, Lotuleilei, Milliner, and Mingo.

I think those are the realistic four. I have no idea which one they'd take. Before, Miliner seemed obvious, but all the talk of him dropping out of the top 10 makes me skeptical.

If we trade down to 11 or 12, I figure we might still get a shot at some of those guys. Lotuleilei might fall b/c of the lack of need for a DT among the other top 10 teams. If he and Milliner are both there, I think they might take Star and get a CB with the 2nd round pick they would acquire by trading the 6th pick. Eifert is the dark horse at this point as well. Mingo, if he somehow gets by the Jets, would probably be the guy they prefer. I don't see Austin as a guy they would want. Too small, not really a fit for this offense or for what Lombardi likes in prospects (size/speed).

Of course, they could pull a classic Browns maneuver and reach for a bum like EJ Manuel but that's just a nightmare more than a realistic fear.

Iamcanadian
04-24-2013, 01:15 AM
Two days away and I'm trying to figure out what we'll do at 6. It's getting clearer, but still I really have no idea what we'll do with that pick.

This is the likely top 4 (if not in this order, then definitely these 4 players at least):

1-KC-Joeckel (or Fisher)
2-JAC-Fisher (or Joeckel)
3-OAK-Floyd
4-PHI-Jordan

now Johnson could go 4th but I doubt it. What Detroit does at 5 would then hold the key to our pick. If they go Ansah which there is a lot of rumor that they would in this scenario, then Johnson falls to 6 and we can (and I think will) trade down with a team like Miami or San Diego. If Detroit takes Johnson, then we take the top player on our board.

Now say we are picking at 6 and Johnson is gone. We are stuck most likely and have to pick probably between these guys:

Ansah, Lotuleilei, Milliner, and Mingo.

I think those are the realistic four. I have no idea which one they'd take. Before, Miliner seemed obvious, but all the talk of him dropping out of the top 10 makes me skeptical.

If we trade down to 11 or 12, I figure we might still get a shot at some of those guys. Lotuleilei might fall b/c of the lack of need for a DT among the other top 10 teams. If he and Milliner are both there, I think they might take Star and get a CB with the 2nd round pick they would acquire by trading the 6th pick. Eifert is the dark horse at this point as well. Mingo, if he somehow gets by the Jets, would probably be the guy they prefer. I don't see Austin as a guy they would want. Too small, not really a fit for this offense or for what Lombardi likes in prospects (size/speed).

Of course, they could pull a classic Browns maneuver and reach for a bum like EJ Manuel but that's just a nightmare more than a realistic fear.

Believe me, you aren't the only one wondering how it will all play out. I think there will be some real shockers on draft day unlike anything we've seen in a recent draft. Top 10 may just include all linemen which I haven't ever seen. IMO, the top 3 elite prospects are the 3 LT's, after that it is a total crapshoot.

keylime_5
04-24-2013, 01:34 AM
haha, i never thought about that. Yeah, 11 of the top 12 picks could be guys who played on the line (if you count Jordan as a DE).

Joeckel
Fisher
Floyd
Jordan
Ansah
Cooper
Mingo
Lotuleilei
Warmack
Fluker

could be ten of the top 11 or 12 picks (i expect Buffalo to take a QB it sounds like at 8). Not to mention Sheldon Richardson would could make it 11 of the top 12 - 14 picks all college linemen. Nassib and Milliner and maybe Austin and/or Vaccaro could sneak in there.

For the Browns though I'm expecting to come away with either Milliner, Ansah, Mingo, or Lotuleilei. Eifert and maybe Sheldon Richardson as dark horses. I wish Jordan would fall to us but that seems like a longshot.

Brown Leader
04-24-2013, 09:51 AM
Since January I've mocked to us Dion Jordan, Tyler Eifert and Sheldon Richardson. Those would be my top choices for our first pick.

The Manuel rumors are interesting. For a minute I liked him a lot but soured on him after really getting into a bunch of his games where he always seemed to shrink in the biggest moments.

Other guys I like a lot are D.J. Hayden and Tavon.

keylime_5
04-25-2013, 04:24 PM
Prediction time!

#6 I say Barkevious Mingo....unless Dion Jordan is there, then definitely Dion Jordan. :D

BuckeyeDan17
04-26-2013, 12:27 AM
Prediction time!

#6 I say Barkevious Mingo....unless Dion Jordan is there, then definitely Dion Jordan. :D

Well done key. Well done.

Iamcanadian
04-26-2013, 01:08 AM
Yes, well done Key but I'll have to see how I feel when we are averaging 7-10 points a game on offense.

Cudders
04-26-2013, 04:03 PM
Considering the front officeís first alternative was Dee Milliner, Iím pleased with the Mingo pick. I think Millinerís ceiling is quite comparable to Carlos Rogers, but thereís a lot of technique work just to get there. His footwork needs polishing and his hand usage (at the line and downfield) is overrated. With Mingo, he might be a rawer prospect, but I think thereís more upside to realize, too. Heís from LSU. I donít expect him to be a polished product. Talent development isnít Les Milesí strong suit. In the end, athleticism isnít something that can be coached and itís the most coveted trait in a pass rusher. So, in essence, the Browns traded a higher floor for a higher ceiling.

Now, I just hope the front office picked someone that the coaching staff has a defined blueprint for when it comes to development. What are Mingoís strengths? What are his weaknesses? What are the best situations to highlight his strengths and camouflage his weaknesses? At the start of the season, I expect him to be a sub-package rusher and see between 40-50% of defensive snaps, depending on his progress through pre-season. The signing of Kruger as a free agent doesnít necessitate starting and handling most of the workload.

At LSU, Mingo often aligned on the strong side and even shaded inside some. It was a poor scheme fit for him. He was exposed to bigger tackles and guards. And, as one of LSUís most athletic front seven defenders, he was used to mirror backfield action. He wasnít put in aggressive positions in Baton Rouge. Given Hortonís strong blitz tendencies, that role should change. Instead of rushing in tight quarters, heís going to be rushing from positions of space. Thatís where that athleticism could shine. I thought he was more explosive in a two-point stance in college. There wasnít as much hesitance as he got his weight under him and he was more effective converting speed to power. With athleticism, a football mind, a motor, and a work ethic as a foundation, itís not a bad gamble to take at the top of a weaker draft in terms of front-end talent.

That said, thereís still progress to be made. First and foremost, he needs to add weight. Get him on an NFL lifting regimen. Heís thin through the trunk. I think heís got some functional strength in him. He surprised me a few times when he anchored and maintained good leverage, but when he failed to keep his pad level low, he got washed out. Heís nowhere near strong enough to compensate for poor technique. In addition, heís got some sloppiness as a tackler. Not a powerful striker or a reliable finisher. There were times his explosiveness got him into situations where he could make tackles behind the line, but he couldnít finish it. Those missed splashes add up. As far as lacking a complete repertoire as a pass rusher goes, I hear it, but I donít care too much. Show me a prospect thatís got a great go-to, a great counter, and a plus fallback.

Iím not sure what the front office wants to do in the third. In terms of visits and workouts in that area of the draft, weíve shown interest in Gavin Escobar, Tyrann Mathieu, D.J. Swearinger, Jon Bostic, Matt Scott, Larry Warford, Logan Ryan, Travis Kelce, Kenny Stills, and Josh Evans. So a quarterback, a receiver, two tight ends, a guard, a linebacker, two corners, and two safeties. In other words, our possibilities appear open across the board.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2013, 12:54 PM
It is very hard to project Mingo, he was the right pick but for some reason, something went wrong for LSU and all their draft eligible players had off seasons, they didn't employ an attack system but tended to play off the ball, the worst possible system for all those talented guys, which is probably why so many declared.
I think Mingo has a high upside and I really hope he reaches his ceiling.

Cudders
04-27-2013, 03:31 PM
Well, given the front officeís willingness to move out of the draft for future picks, I think itís safe to assume that Weeden needs to prove a lot. Itís a show-me season for him. Because Banner has assembled the ammunition to target a franchise quarterback in the following draft. You can start building an attractive package with six selections in the first four rounds. Or, if the Browns flounder enough to grab one with their own pick, use those selections to surround that quarterback with complementing pieces.

BuckeyeDan17
04-27-2013, 07:48 PM
I'm not really upset with anything we did. I think we were solid. I don't view Slaughter as anything more than ST, Bryant may make it as a rotational guy.

Leon McFadden looks like he could be an above average player. It seems that he has the traits that Milliner lacks: excellent footwork, not "grabby." Further, he has excellent stop-and-go ability due to his fluid hips. While he may not have the elite speed, it can be masked by his aforementioned skills. He may be on the shorter side a bit but I read he has pretty long arms. Could make a really good #2.

#teddybridgewater2014

Iamcanadian
04-27-2013, 08:52 PM
Well, given the front officeís willingness to move out of the draft for future picks, I think itís safe to assume that Weeden needs to prove a lot. Itís a show-me season for him. Because Banner has assembled the ammunition to target a franchise quarterback in the following draft. You can start building an attractive package with six selections in the first four rounds. Or, if the Browns flounder enough to grab one with their own pick, use those selections to surround that quarterback with complementing pieces.

I think you hit the nail on the head and I agree, they may be assembling enough picks in next year's draft to move up for a franchise QB, however, as we all saw with RG111, there are absolutely no guarantees that always works out. But at least it looks like they have a plan.

keylime_5
04-28-2013, 03:46 PM
Yeah, this is the make or break year obviously for Weeden. As he goes, the offense goes. We have some good pieces in place around him with a good offensive line, Richardson (who is gonna thrive in Norv Turner's offense by the way), Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Davone Bess, sleeper signee David Nelson, and second year burner/return man Travis Benjamin. Jordan Cameron staying healthy and having a breakout year at TE is a MUST for our offense as well since he is the only TE on the roster that can catch. This is the first time in a while where we can't blame our QB struggles on the supporting cast I think.

I'm not worried about Mingo. He should blossom in Horton's system with all that talent around him (Bryant, Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Sheard, Kruger, Groves), though it's not necessarily a given that he will produce as well as a rookie yet because he is so thin right now, needs to add 10-15 lbs. of muscle, but he will be part of a rotation that will get to QBs this year b/c we have 4 pass rushers who can get to the QB and they will keep each other fresh throughout games.

Brown Leader
04-28-2013, 11:11 PM
My initial thoughts.

Mingo
Not high on him. He was top 5 before the junior season, than looked like a mid to late first rounder after really struggling. Seems he started getting elevated the closer it got to the draft. He's completely a finesse guy at this point. He doesn't finish. And he doesn't have anything when he gets there. No pop. Not exactly an AFC north type guy. Also gets a little out of control and unbalanced. Big Ben could shrug him all day, if he can even get that close. Lombardi liked to say you don't look at where a guy is now, you look where he'll be in 2-3 years. That's why he's a Brown. They're banking on his development but....

Worst case scenario, Mingo is Manny Lawson. A reasonable projection is he'll be Mathias Kiwanuka. Best case scenario, he's Osi Umenyiora.

McFadden
I like him. He plays salty. He's small though and not real fast. Reminds of the type of CBs the Colts always used to draft. I think he's another Jerraud Powers. Decent starter but nothing exceptional. Mathieu going the next pick was a kick in the pants. Lombardi or Banner pussed out. Mathieu is similar but with exceptional playing traits. Greater risk but higher reward. Mathieu is like former Jet/Texans great Aaron Glenn. Pro bowl CB and punt returner.

Slaughter
First, I kind of loved the trade outs. Stock piling for next year is good. BUT...passing on Shamarko Thomas and allowing the Steelers to come up for him could haunt this FO. Thomas, imo, isn't strictly an inbox guy. His speed (sub 4.4) and range make him also suited to play the deep half as the last line of defense. He also showed the ability to man up on the slot WR/TE.

But to Jamoris. Even if he makes it back 100% healthy, which is always a big if, he'll still be an underpowered slow FS. I love his play style and Ive read he's a leader and smart but slow is slow. I think he looked like a 4.6 guy healthy. As a 6th round gamble, he's an ok pick. But in light of passing Thomas to your #1 rival, it turns bad.

Bryant
Solid developmental pass rusher. I read he didn't have the greatest week at the East West but looked very good at his pro day and private workouts.

Gilkey
I love the value here. I had him as a mid 5th rounder. He looked very good senior week in Mobile and in the game. Stout and quick.

The Bess trade was as good as it gets. If you factor Bess and Gordon into this draft it looks sort of good. Without them though, I don't think it cuts it. Supposedly we had the same deal from the Rams as the Bills did but opted to stay put and take Mingo. That's a big fat fail imo.

villagewarrior
04-29-2013, 06:58 AM
I'm pretty meh on Cleveland's draft class. Mingo is a huge reach in the top 10. Incredible intangibles, not nearly enough production for me. McFadden is the best pick, should jump in immediately and play. Bryant and Gilkey (especially) are very intriguing.

C.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2013, 06:35 PM
For once in a long time, I can actually live with our draft, Mingo has a shot to be great even if it isn't guaranteed.
MaFadden is OK and filled a need. The rest are just special teamers so it hardly matters anyways.
The fact that they are obviously looking to add picks for next year in hopes of being in a position to move up to get a franchise QB, is the right way to go.
Therefore this draft cannot be graded till we know the results of next year's draft.

keylime_5
04-30-2013, 06:52 PM
Yeah, this draft was more about just the players they did pick. We got a 3rd and 4th rounder for next year. We got Davone Bess and Josh Gordon. Those 4 moves were very well done. Mingo is a high upside, swing for the fences pick at OLB - he can be a 10-15 sack a year guy once he develops. I think him in Horton's system is a great match. I would have taken that trade from St.Louis though and taken Jarvis Jones and a 2nd rounder. Safer pick who is sure to be a 8+ sack a year type OLB even though he isn't as fast or big and might have long term issues with that stenosis. Not a big deal though if Mingo pans out.

Iamcanadian
05-01-2013, 10:03 AM
The only problem I have with the Brown's future is that next year's crop of QB's may actually be worse than this years, of course a lot can happen in a year, but right now I'm not seeing a franchise QB out there.

keylime_5
05-01-2013, 12:53 PM
Teddy Bridgewater is a surefire first round QB I think. To get him we might have to move up though and that can be expensive. Good thing we have a lot of picks. Other than him there are no certainties....but a few guys (Marcus Mariota, Bryn Renner to name a couple) who can emerge with big seasons this year passing the ball. Ya never know this early. We had no idea that Kaepernick or Dalton or Manuel or Weeden would go as high as they did the April before their final college seasons. Lets let it play out before worrying. For all we know Weeden will have a decent 2nd season and we won't be as urgent about getting a new QB. Best case scenario is that Weeden has a good year and we can think about finding his eventual replacement but not as a pressing need.

BuckeyeDan17
05-01-2013, 01:16 PM
I think he can be average but I don't think it's going to be enough for Banner and Lombardi to say to each other "this is the dude right here." I think you need an elite passer to make it to the promise land and I don't see Weeden ever reaching that ceiling.

Maybe they do like you suggested and take a more relaxed approach to it and grab someone later. For once, I would like for it to be us that gets the sexy top flight prospect in Bridgewater.

Brown Leader
05-01-2013, 05:29 PM
Lombardi on the 2013 draft [Bull & Fox]
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/05/01/browns-gm-michael-lombardi-says-to-look-through-a-larger-lens-at-2013-draft/


"It's about building a team not collecting talent." Banner mentioned the same line when he hired Lombardi as a parting shot toward Heckert. Is it me or is this just pure doubletalk?

keylime_5
05-01-2013, 09:12 PM
He can say what he wants but the doom of H&H (aside from hiring Shurmur) was not finding a QB. They had Delhomme, McCoy, and rookie Weeden on their watch. No coach in the NFL is gonna win with those guys QBing the team. Heckert drafted pretty well. There were some questionable moves like the Julio Jones trade, but he built a nice foundation of talent with a lot of picks and very few big whiffs on them. Josh Gordon, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz, Phil Taylor, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, Ishmaay'il Kitchen, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, LJ Fort, Tashaun Gipson, Johnson Bademosi, Greg Little, Jordan Cameron, Jason Pinkston - there are some really nice gems in his drafts and UDFA signings. Props to Heckert for putting us in position to be just a QB away from contention.

BuckeyeDan17
05-02-2013, 08:43 AM
Bademosi has quietly been an exceptional ST player.

How do you guys think James Mike Johnson is going to fare inside in the new system?

Iamcanadian
05-02-2013, 11:26 AM
He can say what he wants but the doom of H&H (aside from hiring Shurmur) was not finding a QB. They had Delhomme, McCoy, and rookie Weeden on their watch. No coach in the NFL is gonna win with those guys QBing the team. Heckert drafted pretty well. There were some questionable moves like the Julio Jones trade, but he built a nice foundation of talent with a lot of picks and very few big whiffs on them. Josh Gordon, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz, Phil Taylor, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, Ishmaay'il Kitchen, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, LJ Fort, Tashaun Gipson, Johnson Bademosi, Greg Little, Jordan Cameron, Jason Pinkston - there are some really nice gems in his drafts and UDFA signings. Props to Heckert for putting us in position to be just a QB away from contention.

Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB, add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.

ArkyRamsFan
05-02-2013, 04:17 PM
Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB,add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.

Rams fan here...

IAC is absolutely correct when he says Holmgren screwed up the negotiations for RG111. It has been well known among Rams fans that the Rams brain trust of Jeff Fisher and Les Snead WANTED to deal with the Browns much more than any other team. This was due to the fact that Fish wanted to draft either Trent Richardson or Justin Blackmon. Trading down with Cleveland would have ensured that would have gotten one of them.

Also, the Rams in no way would have demanded the same package they got from Washington because of their interest in Richardson or Blackmon. This is why it was reported that Fish threw his glasses when the news broke that Jax had moved ahead of us to pick Blackmon. Yeah, they wanted him pretty bad....

I still cannot understand why Holmgren messed around and at the end of the day did nothing but piss in his own bath water. This deal should have been like falling of a log. And for what....Brandon Weeden??? Gimme a break....

You had a team that needed a franchise QB...you had a team that needed to trade down and get more picks but not so far down that we missed out on the players we had been targeting. This just might be a case of The Fat Guy having to show everyone that he was the smartest one in the room.

Don't get me wrong...I love the deal we got from the 'Skins but I can certainly commiserate with long-suffering Browns fans also. Side note: (My family is originally from Cleveland and I was born in Garfield Heights though raised in Cali - hence why I'm a Rams fan.) A big part of me wants the Browns to return to their former glory. I still remember being regaled by my parents with stories of Otto Graham, Paul Brown, and Jim Brown and Frank Ryan and Paul
Warfield. I knew about the famous Browns sweep - Schafrath and Hickerson IIRC leading Leroy Kelly before I was even a football fan. Holmgren had a chance to restore some dignity to this franchise. Now all he's remembered for is missing out on Robert Griffin.

Or, as the guy who drafted Colt McCoy and Brandon Weedon. Now that's a compelling legacy...:njx:

Sorry for rambling on (no pun intended!) but I had to get this off my chest. I so want the Browns to return to their former glory. I'm just sorry that the wrong guy was in charge when a franchise changing opportunity was there for the taking.

Having said all of that I do wish you all the best for the 2013 season.

Thanks for listening.....

keylime_5
05-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB, add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.

I never said they didn't. In fact I said they made a few questionable moves Botching the chance to get Griffin takes the cake, and the Juilo Jones thing is debatable, but it's looking like we didn't maximize the value of those picks we got in return.

Aside from that we have the most loaded roster we've had in decades and are a playoff team if we get decent QB play. There are plenty of QB teams who get there without great QB play (see Minnesota Vikings, when they made it with Sage Rosenfels or Christian Ponder, or the Baltimore Ravens any year they went before Flacco). If they are willing to deal (or if they get lucky in the draft slotting) then they should be able to get a QB in the next couple years. You never know, they might be able to get their hands on a young veteran like Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles that could turn out to be something. Predicting the future in the NFL isn't that easy.

Iamcanadian
05-04-2013, 11:17 PM
I never said they didn't. In fact I said they made a few questionable moves Botching the chance to get Griffin takes the cake, and the Juilo Jones thing is debatable, but it's looking like we didn't maximize the value of those picks we got in return.

Aside from that we have the most loaded roster we've had in decades and are a playoff team if we get decent QB play. There are plenty of QB teams who get there without great QB play (see Minnesota Vikings, when they made it with Sage Rosenfels or Christian Ponder, or the Baltimore Ravens any year they went before Flacco). If they are willing to deal (or if they get lucky in the draft slotting) then they should be able to get a QB in the next couple years. You never know, they might be able to get their hands on a young veteran like Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles that could turn out to be something. Predicting the future in the NFL isn't that easy.

Unfortunately, the likelihood of us getting decent QB play is highly doubtful to say the least , add that to the fact that we play in a tough division and I think it is pure fantasy to see anyway we make the playoffs any time soon.

I also have to question this loaded roster, where is a #1 WR? Where is our offense? You also have to remember that nobody we play takes us seriously, so we never have to face a really good team that is sky high emotionally when they play us, their players have already marked a win down for the game and just go through the motions during the game itself. This is the type of myth that fans fail to realize when assessing a poor team. They think because they pull off the occasional upset or keep some games close, that they are close to being competitive, they never add in the above factor into the equation.

We are going to win between 4-7 games next year and if we win more than 4, our chances of drafting a franchise QB falls to about 5%, because we will be drafting too high. That is the trouble with having a loaded roster minus a QB, you finish too high to be in a position to trade up for a QB, should one be available.

keylime_5
05-05-2013, 11:26 AM
Josh Gordon is our #1. He's very young and still raw, but he showed flashes of it last year as the year went on, and I have no problem with he and Little as our outside guys. Both very young and kinda unproven still, but so talented and they got better and better last year. You shouldn't be worried about those two with Davone Bess at the slot and good backups in Nelson and Benjamin. Richardson should blossom in this offense as well. The only thing we're really missing offensively is a really good QB. Now you never know, Norv and Chud might turn Weeden in Derek Anderson of 2007 this year, it's certainly going to be a better year offensively.

It's hard to predict wins - the line between a 4 win season and a 9 or 10 win season is very thin. Remember all those 4th quarter chokes we had last year? There were 6 games we lost late that we could have just as easily won if not for a few plays. THat's how the NFL is, that's why some years teams like the Lions and Eagles have top 5 picks despite having so much talent while teams like the Colts or Vikings make the playoffs .
..
For all we know we'll stay healthy and win 7-9 games, or we could have bad luck again and not finish games that we are winning for 3 quarters. Either way we know we won't consistently win games and compete until we get great QB play.

Brown Leader
05-05-2013, 08:41 PM
Seems the guy in my sig, Duke Williams, may have been the target in the 4th. And after he came off the board they decided to trade out. Ah well.

I'm wondering if they might use Nelson as a TE in some situations. He's the kind of guy you want on the field and they struck out on getting a top talent there.

Brown Leader
05-09-2013, 09:51 PM
In case you missed it.
Black and Brown Blues
A visit inside ó OK, near ó the Cleveland war room on the occasion of the NFL draft
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9255454/chuck-klosterman-draft-day-cleveland?ex_cid=grantland33

Cudders
05-10-2013, 12:17 AM
I wasnít Grantlandís biggest fan in the first place, but the whininess in that piece is hilarious. Klosterman is upset because the Browns didnít give him unrestricted access to their war room or feed him a bunch of delicious details? Uh, duh? Talk about a chronic case of naivete. Ever seen a coachís or general managerís press conference, Chuck? These arenít the most transparent personalities around. Thereís not a team in the NFL that would (or, for that matter, should) trust a member of the media with inside information. Then, instead of realizing the foolishness of his expectations in hindsight, he decides to write a not-so-subtle, suggestive column about the organizationís blandness and ineptitude? Right. Keep on keepiní on, Grantland. If the sports thing doesnít work out, Iím sure breaking down the New York Timesí wedding section will. :njx:

Past the whininess, thereís still some interesting stuff buried in there. In terms of trading out of the first round altogether, Iíd hazard the unnamed team was the Falcons. Given Thomas Dimitroffís willingness to make big moves, and their aggressive pursuit to upgrade their defensive backfield, Iíd guess Dee Milliner was their intended target. But thatís a tough blockbuster to complete. Leaves the Browns without a pick until the late second in 2013 and leaves the Falcons without a first-round pick until 2016.

As for the Rams trade, I think I wouldíve dropped down. I donít mind Mingo, but I wouldíve been fine with a multitude of options in that range, too. Eifert, Warmack, Cooper, Fluker, Rhodes, etc. And it couldíve allowed the front office to be more flexible in subsequent rounds as well. Couldíve shopped the second-round pick for a first in 2014. Or, if possible, taken a higher-rated corner than McFadden there and traded our third for a future second. Or made both picks. The possibilities wouldíve been numerous.

As for that Chud anecdote, as far as I can tell, itís one of the Florida State linemen in all likelihood. The Seminoles had three linemen in first-round discussions and fit the SEC opponent part of the criteria with Florida. From what I remember, Watson stonewalled Floridaís rushers in pass protection and flashed his athleticism, but I didnít watch more than a few of his YouTube cut-ups, so Iím not sure if it was his defining game. Same goes for Carradine. He made some splashes in that game, but I donít know if it was his definitive performance, and he hurt his knee as well. I remember Werner terrorized Florida in that game, and finished with career-highs in sacks and tackles for loss, but I donít see Chud being as impressed from a tools perspective.

As for Bannerís shot at a ďcluelessĒ draft pundit, Iím a little curious. The implied conviction and immediateness of it made me wonder if it was Daniel Jeremiah. Both were in Philadelphia together. Banner as president and Jeremiah as an area scout. But I donít consider Jeremiah high-profile per se.