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Achilles33
04-07-2007, 11:41 AM
Hey guys, I was just watching Football Friday (bear with me, ESPN is all I've got :() and Todd McShay said that Branch is falling A LOT, maybe to the middle of the first round. If he is there at 12-15 or so, we better trade up. Is there any chance he falls to us at 22?

BX
04-07-2007, 12:59 PM
Well, which teams between 5 and 22 are interested in Branch?

Burns336
04-07-2007, 02:18 PM
No way he lasts until 22. Even if he does fall (which im not sure if it would be more than 2 or 3 spots) We are still going to need to move up and the question we need to ask is if Branch is worth the number of draft points we are going to have to give up to get him. If our staff believes he can play at a high level at NT I think it would be a good move, if they dont I would like to see us sit at 22 and take a CB, preferably ross.

Achilles33
04-07-2007, 04:54 PM
I like Houston, but Ross wouldn't be bad either. I don't think Ross is good value there though. We could trade down to 26, right before the Saints, and pick up some more picks and then take him. Houston has way more potential, and would be good value at 22.

Burns336
04-07-2007, 09:54 PM
I like Houston, but Ross wouldn't be bad either. I don't think Ross is good value there though. We could trade down to 26, right before the Saints, and pick up some more picks and then take him. Houston has way more potential, and would be good value at 22.

Houston has more potential based on what? Last season was the first season Ross was given an opportunity to start and he won the Thorpe award and far surpassed everyone's expectations? I dont see where the differentiation in potential comes from? Age is the only argument i could think of, but ross was sitting out in between college and highschool due to a mix up in transcripts, he had no choice.

Achilles33
04-08-2007, 08:35 AM
Houston is more raw, and still has a good amount of development left, Ross doesn't. I also don't like Ross' body type. He is very top heavy. He has a large torso, and short legs, making him akward and not very fluid in the hips.

thule
04-10-2007, 11:37 PM
Branch would be at home in a one gap scheme...I would be down. If he falls out of the top 10 it'll really be a great opportunity for us.

thule
04-10-2007, 11:41 PM
Houston is more raw, and still has a good amount of development left, Ross doesn't. I also don't like Ross' body type. He is very top heavy. He has a large torso, and short legs, making him akward and not very fluid in the hips.

I'm just curious where you get your information. Short legs...large torso? I've never heard this mentioned. I've heard the fluid hips bs...but he has nothing that would go to show me physically that he is incapable of it...more of a coaching issue I think. After all when he was playing at the senior bowl...he had no problem jamming at the line or getting his hips around...This would lead me to believe its a coaching problem.

Burns336
04-11-2007, 12:27 AM
I'm just curious where you get your information. Short legs...large torso? I've never heard this mentioned. I've heard the fluid hips bs...but he has nothing that would go to show me physically that he is incapable of it...more of a coaching issue I think. After all when he was playing at the senior bowl...he had no problem jamming at the line or getting his hips around...This would lead me to believe its a coaching problem.

and how is Houston more raw with room to improve, yet Ross has hit his full potential and is done? Once again you are relying on the age argument. I just dont see how your butt boy T-newman was in the exact same situation and you love him but you are so against ross?

and to add to what thule was saying, im not sure if he has "short legs" or where you got that information but he sure can lay the wood alot harder than any of the other CB's in the draft that i've watched.

either way, Achilles/t-new, whoever you want to be, i always read you making arguments about how T-new doesnt have the wear and tear that most people his age do because he started late or somthing like that. Do you realize ross sat out 2 years and just worked at a burger joint inbetween highschool and college and then he sat and watched on the bench at texas for 3 years until he finally got his first year of starting in his senior season?

If you are going to use the "no wear and tear" argument it should be for this guy, he pretty much sat on his ass for 5 years and then when he was given the opportunity he showed up big time.

IMO this is one of the guys who we have no clue about how high his ceiling can be because we only have 1 year of him?

thule
04-11-2007, 12:32 AM
and how is Houston more raw with room to improve, yet Ross has hit his full potential and is done? Once again you are relying on the age argument. I just dont see how your butt boy T-newman was in the exact same situation and you love him but you are so against ross?

and to add to what thule was saying, im not sure if he has "short legs" or where you got that information but he sure can lay the wood alot harder than any of the other CB's in the draft that i've watched.

either way, Achilles/t-new, whoever you want to be, i always read you making arguments about how T-new doesnt have the wear and tear that most people his age do because he started late or somthing like that. Do you realize ross sat out 2 years and just worked at a burger joint inbetween highschool and college and then he sat and watched on the bench at texas for 3 years until he finally got his first year of starting in his senior season?

If you are going to use the "no wear and tear" argument it should be for this guy, he pretty much sat on his ass for 5 years and then when he was given the opportunity he showed up big time.

IMO this is one of the guys who we have no clue about how high his ceiling can be because we only have 1 year of him?

I was wondering if anyone caught on to the achilles/tnew similarities. I'd love to see an ip check on them.

Modano
04-11-2007, 02:20 AM
I was wondering if anyone caught on to the achilles/tnew similarities. I'd love to see an ip check on them.

I've no doubt they're the same person. Mancrush on Newman, calling TO the best WR in the game, calling all the time the pressure that Phillips will bring to our team, saying the Cowboys have no holes, homerism at red alert level, even bad rep!

Burns336
04-11-2007, 02:49 AM
I was wondering if anyone caught on to the achilles/tnew similarities. I'd love to see an ip check on them.

At first I didnt know for sure because he wasnt being as "homerish", but i soon realized he favors alot of the same players such as Houston over ross, and he uses 40 times as the basis for a majority of his arguments which is a complete T-new thing. I also noticed that T-new had vanished from the boards because my headaches from reading idiotic post's had left me, but i soon realized that this new poster known as achilles was posted at a high frequency, which was comparable to t-news. Thats when i realized this dip **** was probably back under a new alias. The t-new sig that he recently added is also a huge red flag.

thule
04-11-2007, 03:05 PM
At first I didnt know for sure because he wasnt being as "homerish", but i soon realized he favors alot of the same players such as Houston over ross, and he uses 40 times as the basis for a majority of his arguments which is a complete T-new thing. I also noticed that T-new had vanished from the boards because my headaches from reading idiotic post's had left me, but i soon realized that this new poster known as achilles was posted at a high frequency, which was comparable to t-news. Thats when i realized this dip **** was probably back under a new alias. The t-new sig that he recently added is also a huge red flag.

Multiple accounts are illegal. Maybe a mod could take care of our little problem.

Achilles33
04-11-2007, 03:27 PM
Thule is correct. your IP and e-mail address forbids you of having 2 names, so I can't possibly be that person. I read the rules before I post on a site. Anyway, I got the large torso and short legs part from a bunch of scouting reports and draft books I have read. To me Ross doesn't have the potential to be a #1, and Houston does. No one really is a true #1 CB in this class, but if anyone can turn into one it is Houston or McCualey.

Burns, I didn't really like the Newman pick at first. And even with the success, I will never support drafting a player at 25 years old when you can get someone who will be just as good if not better at 22 or 23 (Houston, Revis).

jdnoyes
04-11-2007, 03:42 PM
True you have to have a 2nd email address but thats easy enough, as to the IP thing while it is against the rules, I am pretty sure you would still be able to create an account, and you would only be found out if someone took the time to check if the IP's were the same. I think you are TNew, I personally don't care if you are or not.

Burns336
04-11-2007, 09:57 PM
Thule is correct. your IP and e-mail address forbids you of having 2 names, so I can't possibly be that person. I read the rules before I post on a site. Anyway, I got the large torso and short legs part from a bunch of scouting reports and draft books I have read. To me Ross doesn't have the potential to be a #1, and Houston does. No one really is a true #1 CB in this class, but if anyone can turn into one it is Houston or McCualey.

Burns, I didn't really like the Newman pick at first. And even with the success, I will never support drafting a player at 25 years old when you can get someone who will be just as good if not better at 22 or 23 (Houston, Revis).

The fact remains that Ross wasn't given a chance until his senior season and when he was given the chance he put up better numbers than anyone else, and has the ability to return kicks. Now i know numbers dont mean everything, but given that we have only had a year to watch him as a starter, it is one of the only things i have to go by. Other than that, he plays more aggressive than Newman in the sense that he will take a chance to make a play. He is similar to Henry in that aspect of the game, but he also has the ability to do things that Henry can't such as returning punts for us and staying off the injured list.

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 11:40 AM
Hey guys, I was just watching Football Friday (bear with me, ESPN is all I've got :() and Todd McShay said that Branch is falling A LOT, maybe to the middle of the first round. If he is there at 12-15 or so, we better trade up. Is there any chance he falls to us at 22?

Latest on Branch, is that he is falling further than that now. I'm talking possibly in the 20's. Apparently teams are beginning to take him off their draftboards. Branch has several stress fractures in his legs and people question his longevity. You add that with his subpar technique and mechanics, his weight/stamina issues, and his lack of collegiate production... things arent looking too good for him... at least for the time being.

I dont know about most of you but, selecting Alan Branch would scare me.

Honestly, i cannot see him falling that far but, if he did... reagrdless of value, i wouldnt touch him.

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 06:52 PM
Latest on Branch, is that he is falling further than that now. I'm talking possibly in the 20's. Apparently teams are beginning to take him off their draftboards. Branch has several stress fractures in his legs and people question his longevity. You add that with his subpar technique and mechanics, his weight/stamina issues, and his lack of collegiate production... things arent looking too good for him... at least for the time being.

I dont know about most of you but, selecting Alan Branch would scare me.

Honestly, i cannot see him falling that far but, if he did... reagrdless of value, i wouldnt touch him.
Is that the direction the heard is going today?

Caution. Don't be a sheep. Make your own judgements.

Branch is the #1 player on my Dallas Board.

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 07:06 PM
Is that the direction the heard is going today?

Caution. Don't be a sheep. Make your own judgements.

Branch is the #1 player on my Dallas Board.

Hey, if Kiper and Mcshay are saying the same thing about stress fractures... i'm gonna listen. I've never been too high on Branch especially not as a NT... he was not as productive as many seem to believe he was in college. Now, if their is truth to the whole stress fractures...lets call it "gossip" for lack of a better term... has any truth to it... this could be a big problem. We're talking about a 330 pound big man here... there is virtually no way he could hold up an entire season with such an injury...not at that weight. This is also an injury that tends to linger. I just think there are too many red flags here... without a doubt, he has the biggest chance at being a bust in this years draft, IMO.

jdnoyes
04-19-2007, 07:06 PM
Wouldn't trade up for him, but assuming these "stress fractures" aren't serious how can he not be the pick if he falls to 22.

Im_a_Romosexual
04-19-2007, 07:28 PM
I'd love if we ended up with him, sure the stress fractures are an issue and so are the questions about his weight and conditioning, but his skills are to good I cant see us passing him up

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 07:30 PM
I'd love if we ended up with him, sure the stress fractures are an issue and so are the questions about his weight and conditioning, but his skills are to good I cant see us passing him up

I never said we wouldnt draft him...We most likely would but, personally i wouldnt want him.

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 08:19 PM
We're looking for a NT. NOT a playmaker.

That's the whole reason why our 3-4 is ineffective. We have a guy in Ferg who tries to much to be a playmaker instead of fulfilling his true role. Instead of occupying 2 blockers, he's shooting the gaps and trying to make the backfield tackle. Doh! So when he doesn't make the tackle the blockers he was supposed to occupy are already downfield blocking our LBs and the RB is in the Secondary... and on passing downs we get no pressure on the QB because Ferg isn't freeing anyone up by performing his all important role of demanding a double team. He's an Under Tackle playing Nose Tackle. I'm SICK of it!

So now people are saying he played poorly at Michigan... oh phoey! When analyzing a ton of different players game tape, after a while your eyes begin to tell you what you want them to tell you.

Stress Fracture? Add the fact that he's been working out in spite of it and that only shows me toughness and wonderment of how he'd be 100% healthy.

Branch is the best NT prospect available in the draft. This is not solely my opinion. It has been confirmed by NFL scouts and coaches. My only question is his whether or not he has enough of that badass attitude... I think Tyler has more of that, but is less talented.

Guys at his size and skill set are rare. Very rare. If you have a chance to get one, you do it. Simple as that. If he is there at 22 and we pass on him, I will make my own video and sent it to NBC. (Oh damn, I didn't just go there, did I?) I take it back.... but you get the message.

I'm not trying to pursuade you or anyone on Branch. Heck, believe what you want. Just base your beliefs of your own analysis and not others... is my 2 cents.

This time of year, all sorts of rumors will start to pop up on prospects to boost or deflate a players stock... Majority of it is hogwash. Don't take it for gospel. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no stress fracture at all. Wouldn't it have come out at the combine where they dig into your health condition like digging to China?

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 08:21 PM
Oh and the biggest first round bust potential is Ted Ginn and Robert Meacham...

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 08:34 PM
First off... i liked your post D.

But, come on... you should know by now that... I make my own judements when it comes to players. Remember the whole Rob Petetti thing at the beginning of the year? I was the only one on here against the guy, where everyone else couldnt see letting him go because, Parcells seemed to be enamoured with the guy for some reason.

When it comes to Branch... I just find it way too risky... he could have been playing with this injury for a while now, being a college athlete, there is little time to rest and that type of injury requires lots of rest... he may have more miles on those legs than you actually know and he may not but, i'm not gonna risk it...Most likely wont matter anyway because, I'm sure he'll be long gone before 22, so this is probably all for not.

So, lets end this on something we do agree on... of course I'm talkin bout "The Tank", I'm with you... I'd be all for it.

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 08:37 PM
Oh and the biggest first round bust potential is Ted Ginn and Robert Meacham...

I'd still say Branch... he could be picked potentially higher than the two and is viewed as one of two elite DTs, where as Ginn and Meachem are just seen as two of the better receivers in the class. Just an opinion.

You add Branch's lack of statistical production with his weight/stamina concerns and subpar quickness, I think you have some big bust potential...considering Branch is considered to be one of the "elite".

ironman4579
04-19-2007, 09:04 PM
Hey, if Kiper and Mcshay are saying the same thing about stress fractures... i'm gonna listen. I've never been too high on Branch especially not as a NT... he was not as productive as many seem to believe he was in college. Now, if their is truth to the whole stress fractures...lets call it "gossip" for lack of a better term... has any truth to it... this could be a big problem. We're talking about a 330 pound big man here... there is virtually no way he could hold up an entire season with such an injury...not at that weight. This is also an injury that tends to linger. I just think there are too many red flags here... without a doubt, he has the biggest chance at being a bust in this years draft, IMO.

I'm really not trying to bust into your forum here, but I keep seeing the whole "Branch wasn't as productive as you'd like argument" and I really don't understand it. Let's really look at this for a second.

Branch's 3 season total's
37 Games played, 61 tackles, 18 TFL's, 9 sacks, 3 FF, 3 FR

Okoye's 4 season total's
48 games played, 121 tackles, 23 TFL, 10.5 sacks, 3 FF, 3 FR

Now, if we look at per season averages we get

Branch
12 games, 20.3 tackles, 6 TFL, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR

Okoye
12 games, 30.25 tackles, 5.75 TFL, 2.63 sacks, 1 FF, FR

Really, Branch has been more productive overall than Okoye, except in terms of tackles, yet, I don't here anyone question Okoye's production. Perhap's that was because he had a monster senior season. But I also hear people wonder if guys like Reggie Nelson are one year wonders, yet again, I never hear people question Okoye on that. But really, without that one great senior season, Okoye's numbers would be(after 3 seasons)

66 tackles. 8 TFL's, 2.5 sacks, 3 FR, 0 FF

Now, clearly I'm a Michigan fan. But honestly, I did think Branch was slighlty overrated going into this process. He never should have been ranked as the #3 or 4 prospect in the draft. But I don't see how some of the things that are said about him and other prospects magically don't touch Okoye. I realize no one actually said anything about Okoye, I guess I'm just trying to get a grip on this as a whole, rather than just within this thread. Anyway, not trying to sway anyone, one way or another, and clearly numbers don't really mean a ton anyway, just thought I'd post a little info.

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 09:14 PM
I'd still say Branch... he could be picked potentially higher than the two and is viewed as one of two elite DTs, where as Ginn and Meachem are just seen as two of the better receivers in the class. Just an opinion.

You add Branch's lack of statistical production with his weight/stamina concerns and subpar quickness, I think you have some big bust potential...considering Branch is considered to be one of the "elite".
What does it matter where they are drafted? A bust is a bust.

I'm pretty sure that if you were to ask anyone on the Michigan Defense if Branch was a non-factor, they would emphatically disagree. Don't get caught up in stats. What's so bad about them anyways? Are you comparing them to that of a DE or LB? The weight and stamina concerns are coming out of left field. He's been consistent throughout his college career and he carries his weight extremely well.

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 09:40 PM
What does it matter where they are drafted? A bust is a bust.

I'm pretty sure that if you were to ask anyone on the Michigan Defense if Branch was a non-factor, they would emphatically disagree. Don't get caught up in stats. What's so bad about them anyways? Are you comparing them to that of a DE or LB? The weight and stamina concerns are coming out of left field. He's been consistent throughout his college career and he carries his weight extremely well.

I threw the draft positions in there because, to the average fan (atleast through my observation)... the higher you're drafted and you dont succeed... the bigger the bust you are.

I never said he was a non-factor... he was very disruptive at times but, the production was not what you would look for in such a highly touted prospect. If you watch tape on him it's quite obvious... that he takes plays off and tends to tire rather quickly. I dont know how you could say his weight/stamina concerns are coming out of left field... this has been made public a number of times. Throughout Branch's collegiate career his weight was all over the place... weight control/conditioning has been a noteable problem for him. This has brought up questions of his desire, motivation, and overall committment to the game... I just think this guy has too many red flags.

Paul
04-19-2007, 09:43 PM
All the worries about Branch has go to me also. ESPN reporting that teams are just taking him off there boards because of his stress fractures. That is definitely worrisome. But still, if we do pick him I wouldn't hate it. But I would feel much much better if we picked Tank.

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 10:12 PM
I threw the draft positions in there because, to the average fan (atleast through my observation)... the higher you're drafted and you dont succeed... the bigger the bust you are.

I never said he was a non-factor... he was very disruptive at times but, the production was not what you would look for in such a highly touted prospect. If you watch tape on him it's quite obvious... that he takes plays off and tends to tire rather quickly. I dont know how you could say his weight/stamina concerns are coming out of left field... this has been made public a number of times. Throughout Branch's collegiate career his weight was all over the place... weight control/conditioning has been a noteable problem for him. This has brought up questions of his desire, motivation, and overall committment to the game... I just think this guy has too many red flags.
Well by your logic then, wouldn't Ginn & Meacham be bigger busts since Branch is falling so low? Or do you still think Branch will be picked first?

This is all moot anyways as Branch won't be there at 22 anyways. If he is, it's a steal.

M.O.T.H.
04-19-2007, 10:21 PM
Well by your logic then, wouldn't Ginn & Meacham be bigger busts since Branch is falling so low? Or do you still think Branch will be picked first?

This is all moot anyways as Branch won't be there at 22 anyways. If he is, it's a steal.

Yeah, well i said potentially he could be selected higher. Even if he wasnt... i dont see both being drafted before him and given Branch's once again "elite" status... he could be seen as the bigger bust. ha. I could see how you might see this as flawed...lol.

Anyway... I agree this is pretty much pointless considering that the chances are mighty slim that he would be available.

I get into the stupidest arguments sometimes...haha:)

Nice... going back in fourth with ya D. :)

D-Unit
04-19-2007, 11:08 PM
Yeah, well i said potentially he could be selected higher. Even if he wasnt... i dont see both being drafted before him and given Branch's once again "elite" status... he could be seen as the bigger bust. ha. I could see how you might see this as flawed...lol.

Anyway... I agree this is pretty much pointless considering that the chances are mighty slim that he would be available.

I get into the stupidest arguments sometimes...haha:)

Nice... going back in fourth with ya D. :)
I didn't think it was an argument... just exchanging thoughts buddy. It's good to play devil's advocate when evaluating a player too. You have raised my attention level on his defaults.