Raiders Draft - Round Two

[Tha rizzock]

Round 1, Pick# 1 - WR Calvin Johnson (GT)
The Play makers the raiders thought Randy Moss would be is here in calvin Johnson hes the best player in this whole draft and there are too many questions following Jamracus russel who is a good QB but not a great fit for a variation of the WCO. Calvin will likely be the #2 his rookie season next to Jerry porter with curry in the slot and with Moss likely gone or even if he is here calvin is too good to pass up.

Round 2, Pick# 1 - TE Zach Miller(AZ ST)
Will start right away and give whoever the QB is a target but not only that he can block too. There isnt a chance any TE on the raiders roster will start over him with the acception of Tony stewart in Two TE sets that USC used.


Round 3, Pick# 1 - QB Kevin Kolb(houston)
Kevin will automaticlly compete for the starting QB spot with Andrew,josh.
Kevin has evrything the raiders need a good solid arm,leadership qualties and can make plays with his feet. Greg knapp is exactly the kind of coach kevin needs to scuceed.

Round 3, Pick# 36 - OG manuel ramirez(texas Tech)
Will automatclly start at LG, mcquistan was a reach last season and did alright but ramrirez will be a perfect fit next to a vetran LT in the ZBS like barry simms.

Round 4, Pick# 1 - DE Brian Robinson(Texas)
Very fast and Athletic DE that will give a much needed pass rush weve been lacking. will proably start as a rook. Brain and derric can be the much needed pass rush the raiders have been needing for there secondary to make plays and pressure The QB.

Round 5, Pick# 1 - SS Zach Catanese (Arizona State)
Will see alot of playing time its only a matter of time untill stu gets yanked he cant tackle or hit at all.Yes we had the #1 pass defense but it was becuse we got ran alot and couldnt score points. Stu makes alot of mental errors and
never plays the run his tackling stats are overated becuse the person runs down field he hits them or they catch the ball in front of him and he hits them he will be a solid backup however.

Round 5, Pick# 28 - Traded for QB Josh mccown
We need a vetran presence type QB and hes perfect for that. Mccown will compete with walter kolb for the starting spot. Hes got a big arm and is mobile.

Round 6, Pick# 1 - OT Brandon Frye(V-tech)
VT runs the ZBS and this guy will fit right in with what we are trying to do and will proably see some playing time. Hes very fast and athletic which is prefect for the ZBS.

Round 7, Pick# 1 - DT Joe Cohen (Florida)
We need a DT who is a hard worker and to rotate with sapp,kelly,taj. Kelly is being paid starters money and will get a good amount of the snaps.

Round 7 pick#44- WR Jordan kent Oregon State
Hes a big fast track star who will likely see some action on the field in 4 WR sets he creates mismatches for smaller DBs. Will be a special team guy.

Roster
]Offense
Rookies*
QB-Josh mccown,Kevin Kolb*,Andrew walter,booty
RB-Lamont Jordan,Dom rhodes, Justin fargas
FB- Justin griffith,zach crockett
WR-Jerry porter
WR- calvin Johnson*
WR- Ronald curry
WR-Jordan kent*
TE-Zach Miller*, Tony stewart, John madsen, fred wakefield
(randal williams,courtney anderson are garbage)
LT-Barry simms, Brandon Frye*,corenll green
LG- Manuel ramriez*, Paul mcquistan
C-Jermey newberry(healthy), jake grove, chirs morris
RG-kevin Boothe, brad badger,corey hulsey
RT-Robert Gallery, chad slaughter

Defense
LDE-Brian robinson*,Lance Johnstone,tyler brayton
UT-Warren sapp,Joe cohen,antaj hawthorne
NT-Terdell sands,Tommy kelly
RDE-Derric Burgess,kevin huntley
WLB-Robert thomas,darnell bing,sam williams
MLB-Kirk Morrison,ricky brown
SLB-Thomas howard,isiah ekijuba
SS-*zach contoneeze,B.J ward
FS- Mike Huff,Stuart schweigert
LCB-Nnamdi asomugha, stanford routt,chirs carr
RCB-Fabian washington,duane starks,hiram euegene

K-seabass
P-lechler
KR/PR- chris carr

[Stash]

Love the CJ pick, but I doubt we take a TE Round 2 seeing as how we signed two of them already. Also, I don't think Ramirez would be a good fit for the ZBS that we are supposedly going to use even though I like him a lot. And if we take CJ #1, I doubt we take another WR in the draft, it would be overkill. That's just IMO.

[Tha rizzock]

Love the CJ pick, but I doubt we take a TE Round 2 seeing as how we signed two of them already. Also, I don't think Ramirez would be a good fit for the ZBS that we are supposedly going to use even though I like him a lot. And if we take CJ #1, I doubt we take another WR in the draft, it would be overkill. That's just IMO.

we need another WR after CJ becuse morant isnt anything special,curry could get hurt again, alvis whitted is junk,Moss may not be here and will buchanon is nothing more then a track guy.

The two TEs we signd are blocker nothing more. we have No pass catching TE outside of madsen anderson,williams should be cut becuse there junk.

Ramariez has the speed and strength to be in the ZBS so i think he would fit.

Thanks for the feedback

[RaiderNation]

no on the 2nd rounder. kalil or staley there. we go DE in the 3rd where kolb is and pick up palmer mayb in the 4th. we need a OLB in there. other than that VERY NICE

[Tha rizzock]

no on the 2nd rounder. kalil or staley there. we go DE in the 3rd where kolb is and pick up palmer mayb in the 4th. we need a OLB in there. other than that VERY NICE

DE will be adressed with brain robinson who would complment Burgess very nicely bro, we would need kolb to make sure we have a young QB whos a good fit for the offense unlike palmer would be. Kolb has alot of potential and is someone who i think fits very well in the offense we will run. Zach miller is what we need why take kalil when we have a center who is suited for the ZBS already? Grove is a good player in that system and J new is 100 healthy and knows the system as well we need play makers on offense and Miller will help that.


Thanks for the feedback bro

[RaiderNation]

DE will be adressed with brain robinson who would complment Burgess very nicely bro, we would need kolb to make sure we have a young QB whos a good fit for the offense unlike palmer would be. Kolb has alot of potential and is someone who i think fits very well in the offense we will run. Zach miller is what we need why take kalil when we have a center who is suited for the ZBS already? Grove is a good player in that system and J new is 100 healthy and knows the system as well we need play makers on offense and Miller will help that.


Thanks for the feedback bro

we have a young qb that fits...andrew walter. i think the DE need is bigger than the TE need so i think we go DE in the 3rd. Jnew inst our long term Center and grove looks to be moved to G.

My Draft
1st Calvin Johnson WR
Best player in the draft.
2nd Ryan Kalil C
Long term Center since grove will be moved to Guard
3rdA Ikaika Alama-Francis DE
Althletic and fast and will apply pressure from the other side of Burgess
3rdB Scott Chandler TE
A TE that has great size and okay speed.
4th Doug Free OT
Could be our future RT if Gallery turns out good.
5thA Derek Landri DT(could be traded for mccown)
Althetic DT that will be taught by Sapp
5thB Dallas Sartz OLB
USC guy who is pretty athletic
6th Gerald Alexander S
Will replace Gibson as a decent back up
7thA Isaiah Stanback QB/WR
An athlete that can play QB or WR
7thB Palauni Ma Sun OG
Huge Guard that could help our running game if hes giving playing time

[Tha rizzock]

we have a young qb that fits...andrew walter. i think the DE need is bigger than the TE need so i think we go DE in the 3rd. Jnew inst our long term Center and grove looks to be moved to G.

My Draft
1st Calvin Johnson WR
Best player in the draft.
2nd Ryan Kalil C
Long term Center since grove will be moved to Guard
3rdA Ikaika Alama-Francis DE
Althletic and fast and will apply pressure from the other side of Burgess
3rdB Scott Chandler TE
A TE that has great size and okay speed.
4th Doug Free OT
Could be our future RT if Gallery turns out good.
5thA Derek Landri DT(could be traded for mccown)
Althetic DT that will be taught by Sapp
5thB Dallas Sartz OLB
USC guy who is pretty athletic
6th Gerald Alexander S
Will replace Gibson as a decent back up
7thA Isaiah Stanback QB/WR
An athlete that can play QB or WR
7thB Palauni Ma Sun OG
Huge Guard that could help our running game if hes giving playing time


Offense is a bigger need then defense IMO. Zach miller is going to be a great TE bro any young QB need a TE like him. Brian robinson is a fast DE who ran in the 4.6 and was an ex basket ball player hes very athletic. Burg and brain would be sacking QBs like crazy. I think Kolb is a way better fit then wakter and hes alot diffrent too. Hes got a good arm but not like walter but way more accurate, Hes way faster ran a 4.6 and has quick football speed, isnt really tall and lankey, think quicker on his feet, has one of the quickest releases on a qb ive see and hes a perfect fit for greg knapp. chandler is a clone of anderson big and soft.
J-new just turned 30 and has alot of time left as does grove who will excel in a ZBS so i dont think he will be at guard unless we are super thin there.

[Komp]

I don't think we take a QB [other than JR] on day 1, especially if we end up with McCown...

[Tha rizzock]

I don't think we take a QB [other than JR] on day 1, especially if we end up with McCown...

why not? Kolb is a very talented QB and we need one like him hes perfect for knapp.

[Stash]

we need another WR after CJ becuse morant isnt anything special,curry could get hurt again, alvis whitted is junk,Moss may not be here and will buchanon is nothing more then a track guy.

The two TEs we signd are blocker nothing more. we have No pass catching TE outside of madsen anderson,williams should be cut becuse there junk.

Ramariez has the speed and strength to be in the ZBS so i think he would fit.

Thanks for the feedback

Don't forget about Porter. CJ/Porter/Curry would be the starting three and then we have Morant and Whiitted as the extras. Even though I agree Morant is nothing special and Whitted sucks, they are still on the roster and picking up another WR in addition to CJ would be a waste.

[Tha rizzock]

Don't forget about Porter. CJ/Porter/Curry would be the starting three and then we have Morant and Whiitted as the extras. Even though I agree Morant is nothing special and Whitted sucks, they are still on the roster and picking up another WR in addition to CJ would be a waste.

special teams gunner to go along with coop and a big WR who can catch unlike whitted,morant and who wont fumble LOL i dont expect whitted to be around much longer and morant needs to be cut.

[RaiderNation]

special teams gunner to go along with coop and a big WR who can catch unlike whitted,morant and who wont fumble LOL i dont expect whitted to be around much longer and morant needs to be cut.

they would be gone by now if we didnt want them

[Komp]

why not? Kolb is a very talented QB and we need one like him hes perfect for knapp.


I think that would be a wasted pick. I don't see the point of having 3 young Qb's on the roster [with McCown]. I'd rather have good young OL prospects to either push veterans [Sims, Grove, etc] to play harder or to push for playing time themselves.

[Tha rizzock]

I think that would be a wasted pick. I don't see the point of having 3 young Qb's on the roster [with McCown]. I'd rather have good young OL prospects to either push veterans [Sims, Grove, etc] to play harder or to push for playing time themselves.

I dont think so hes a better fit for the offense we run and we would let him set back and wait a while. J-new will push grove and Frye will push simms becuse hes used to the ZBS even though hes a rook.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I don't like the reaches on Miller and Cantanese and don't like picking up Robinson (who wouldn't help our run defense at all).

Also, Ramirez and his slow footed, T-rex armed self is a terrible fit for the ZBS. I don't think there is a worse guard in the draft for our scheme.

Also, Burgess is our LDE (strongside), just so you know.

[Tha rizzock]

I don't like the reaches on Miller and Cantanese and don't like picking up Robinson (who wouldn't help our run defense at all).

Also, Ramirez and his slow footed, T-rex armed self is a terrible fit for the ZBS. I don't think there is a worse guard in the draft for our scheme.

Also, Burgess is our LDE (strongside), just so you know.

Burg is the rightside DE dude he doesnt go up against the LT he goes against the RT. I highly doubt robinson wont help. Manny has good feet and is strong at the point of attack he can fit in the ZBS you just described mcquistan LOL

[skatman]

The DE facing the RT is referred to as the left end, and the guy facing the LT is referred to as the right end.

You guys are in agreement.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Indeed Skatman, thanks.

Robinson would help, but he isn't what we need. As for Ramirez, he's even slower and has even shorter arms than McQuistan (who might never start in the new scheme). He's an awful awful fit.

[neko4]

no on the 2nd rounder. kalil or staley there. we go DE in the 3rd where kolb is and pick up palmer mayb in the 4th. we need a OLB in there. other than that VERY NICE

Kalil and staley shouldnt be there

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Kalil and staley shouldnt be there

Staley won't be, but who do you see Kalil going to in the 1st? There isn't a single team from 20-32 who particularly needs a center, and certainly not enough to pass up the players who will be there.

[TheChampIsHere]

Besides Robinson in the 4th, I hate every pick on the 1st day. Manuel Ramirez in the ZBS? U gotta be kidding. I really dont like Calvin over Russell anymore, we need a QB too much to pass on Russell. Zach Miller in the 2nd? No way do we need to pick him that high, big reach there, give us an OL. Pass on Russell, pick up Kolb? No thank you.

[Komp]

Yah I just don't like your mock in general. You are entitled to your opinion tho.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Besides Robinson in the 4th, I hate every pick on the 1st day.

The 4th round isn't on the 1st day.

[skatman]

I'm not crazy about it, but that might mean it's very possible.

[Tha rizzock]

Besides Robinson in the 4th, I hate every pick on the 1st day. Manuel Ramirez in the ZBS? U gotta be kidding. I really dont like Calvin over Russell anymore, we need a QB too much to pass on Russell. Zach Miller in the 2nd? No way do we need to pick him that high, big reach there, give us an OL. Pass on Russell, pick up Kolb? No thank you.

This draft is making people succed dude you put solid playmaker there for a QB miller isnt a reach at all dude just becuse his 40 was a little slow means nothing he still catches really well. I dont care for russel so yeah. Manny can do it hes got good feet and a strong punch with good balance.

[Tha rizzock]

Indeed Skatman, thanks.

Robinson would help, but he isn't what we need. As for Ramirez, he's even slower and has even shorter arms than McQuistan (who might never start in the new scheme). He's an awful awful fit.

In the ZBS you dont need long arms to cut someone LOL.
Robinson will allow us to make more plays on the QB and will start right away believe it.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

If I had to venture a guess, I'd do something like this.

1. CJ - WR
2. Ryan Kalil - C
3. Trent Edwards - QB
3. Allen Barbre - OT
4. Antonio Johnson - DT
5. Courtney Brown - CB
5. Jackie Battle - RB
6. Mkristo Bruce - DE
7. Leonard Peters - S
7. Legedu Naanee - WR

Just a guess. It's making a few assumptions on stocks rising and falling, but I don't think it is too out there. Also assuming one of the picks doesn't go to Detroit for McCown.

In the ZBS you dont need long arms to cut someone LOL.
Is not overly athletic...Not very mobile or agile in space...Is only an average pass blocker despite a lot of reps...Short arms...Stamina is an issue late in games.

A ZBS guard needs to be able to pull and run, get to the second level, and to be able to handle speed rushers. Ramirez can be counted on to do exactly none of those things.

[Komp]

Primary pick first, backup pick in brackets...

1) Jamarcus -QB - LSU [CJ]

2) Kalil - C - USC [Ugoh/Blalock]

3) Ben Patrick - TE - Delaware [Marcus Thomas/Brandon Mebane/DT's]

4) Brian Robison - DE - Texas [Dan Bazuin - DE - CMU]
This pick was the hardest for me, I wanted to take a DE in round 3, but I didn't like the pick value for them at that point and I'm probably less famaliar with the DE's than I am with most other positions.

5) Allen Babre - OT - Missouri South. St [Mario Henderson - OT - FSU]

6) Brandon Sharp - S - Louisville [Sam Olajubutu - LB - Arkansas]

7) Bret Smith - WR - Tennessee [Matt Trannon - WR/TE - Mich St]


Now you can all be as mean to my mock as I have been to yours. ;)

[skatman]

Primary pick first, backup pick in brackets...

1) Jamarcus -QB - LSU [CJ]

2) Kalil - C - USC [Ugoh/Blalock]

3) Ben Patrick - TE - Delaware [Marcus Thomas/Brandon Mebane/DT's]

4) Brian Robison - DE - Texas [Dan Bazuin - DE - CMU]
This pick was the hardest for me, I wanted to take a DE in round 3, but I didn't like the pick value for them at that point and I'm probably less famaliar with the DE's than I am with most other positions.

5) Allen Babre - OT - Missouri South. St [Mario Henderson - OT - FSU]

6) Brandon Sharp - S - Louisville [Sam Olajubutu - LB - Arkansas]

7) Bret Smith - WR - Tennessee [Matt Trannon - WR/TE - Mich St]


Now you can all be as mean to my mock as I have been to yours. ;)

God, sign me up.

Well as long as we're dreaming:

1. Jamarcus
2. Greg Kalil
3. Quentin Moses
3. Aundrae Allison
4. Marcus Thomas

After that, we could draft nothing but cornerbacks, and I'd be happy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that be too early for Thomas. I think with the new rules, teams will really, really avoid problem children.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

1. CJ - WR
2. Ryan Kalil - C
3. Trent Edwards - QB
3. Allen Barbre - OT
4. Antonio Johnson - DT
5. Courtney Brown - CB
5. Jackie Battle - RB
6. Mkristo Bruce - DE
7. Leonard Peters - S
7. Legedu Naanee - WR

Posted in the other thread.

[Komp]

Oh yeah, I forgot we had two thirds.

Looks like me and pmd agree on position needs/rounds addressed...

[Tha rizzock]

Im not huge on russel so you already no i dont like that pick. I like the ben patrick pick. kalil remids me of Grove coming out of VT both guys who should be in a ZBS which is exactly why we dont need him becuse grove and newberry are there and we will be in a ZBS.

[Tha rizzock]

If I had to venture a guess, I'd do something like this.

1. CJ - WR
2. Ryan Kalil - C
3. Trent Edwards - QB
3. Allen Barbre - OT
4. Antonio Johnson - DT
5. Courtney Brown - CB
5. Jackie Battle - RB
6. Mkristo Bruce - DE
7. Leonard Peters - S
7. Legedu Naanee - WR

Just a guess. It's making a few assumptions on stocks rising and falling, but I don't think it is too out there. Also assuming one of the picks doesn't go to Detroit for McCown.




A ZBS guard needs to be able to pull and run, get to the second level, and to be able to handle speed rushers. Ramirez can be counted on to do exactly none of those things.



well in resonse too the manuel ramreiz thing is he can get in better shape with the raiders in camp and get his game right. Hes got good feet and is quick around the edge not the fastest puller but is adequate.

[Romyrick]

Primary pick first, backup pick in brackets...

1) Jamarcus -QB - LSU [CJ]

2) Kalil - C - USC [Ugoh/Blalock]

3) Ben Patrick - TE - Delaware [Marcus Thomas/Brandon Mebane/DT's]

4) Brian Robison - DE - Texas [Dan Bazuin - DE - CMU]
This pick was the hardest for me, I wanted to take a DE in round 3, but I didn't like the pick value for them at that point and I'm probably less famaliar with the DE's than I am with most other positions.

5) Allen Babre - OT - Missouri South. St [Mario Henderson - OT - FSU]

6) Brandon Sharp - S - Louisville [Sam Olajubutu - LB - Arkansas]

7) Bret Smith - WR - Tennessee [Matt Trannon - WR/TE - Mich St]


Now you can all be as mean to my mock as I have been to yours. ;)

This would be absolutely amazing.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I really like Moondocks.

[Komp]

Im not huge on russel so you already no i dont like that pick. I like the ben patrick pick. kalil remids me of Grove coming out of VT both guys who should be in a ZBS which is exactly why we dont need him becuse grove and newberry are there and we will be in a ZBS.

Grove is much better at Guard than Center. And unless Newberry grows new knees I'm not optimistic about a return to his old form. Kalil is probably already better than either of them.

We just have different visions on where we want the team to go.

[Windy]

1st Round - Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech







Less than a month until the Draft. Vote for the selection for each round.

After a few days we will go to the next round. To make things simple I didnt include the option of trading down.

[NotoRussell]

i agree with you about 1st round.
i 2nd i hope we can get Blalock or Staley

[Paranoidmoonduck]

There's no way Staley is there, but I voted for him. I like Kalil and Johnson as well.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

Kalil please.

[locseti]

Kalil for real

[Tha rizzock]

Give me zach miller all day

[Komp]

Any OL or Charles Johnson....I voted for Kalil cause it is the most realistic scenario....

A TE, WR or RB would not be a good choice after selecting CJ in the 1st...

[portermvp84]

I said Zack Miller, it's hard to pass up on him. If not him Kalil or Tank tyler.

[locseti]

I think that there are some interesting TE prospects that can be drafted later, particulary Kevin Boss.

[portermvp84]

We could take Kalil in the second and draft a TE by the name of Scott Chandler out of Iowa in the fourth.

[skatman]

I take the tackle over the center.

Agreed, he won't be there, but considering we are going to a stretch and cut blocking scheme, mobile linmen are nice, and Staley has wheels.

Kalil is mobile as well, but mobile tackles are tougher to come by.

[RaiderNation]

staley or kalil. if none is there blalock or johnson

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I take the tackle over the center.

Agreed, he won't be there, but considering we are going to a stretch and cut blocking scheme, mobile linmen are nice, and Staley has wheels.

Kalil is mobile as well, but mobile tackles are tougher to come by.Gabe Hall and Allen Barbre both fit the ZBS well.And they're both Ts that will be available later.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Gabe Hall and Allen Barbre both fit the ZBS well.And they're both Ts that will be available later.

Neither are great left tackle prospects though, although I suppose Barbre might be able to handle it with a lot of development. The typical rule is that ZBS centers are far easier to find in later rounds than any sort of starting left tackle, and although that isn't perfectly represented in this draft, I would take Staley over Kalil every day of the week and twice on sundays.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I hear where your coming from.But like him or not Sims was a UFA.ANd he was servicable.Even though Kiffin said that Barry will most likely be moving back to LT I still think that Gallery can win back the position.Maybe I just dont want Gallery to be a bust but I still havent given up on him.

[Xonraider]

I'd take a Guard over a Tackle.. atleast in our case. Get Blalock

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I hear where your coming from.But like him or not Sims was a UFA.ANd he was servicable.Even though Kiffin said that Barry will most likely be moving back to LT I still think that Gallery can win back the position.Maybe I just dont want Gallery to be a bust but I still havent given up on him.

Well, I'm comforted by the fact that I'm sure the team wouldn't take another LT high if they were at all happy with what Gallery has shown to date (he looked a lot slimmer in those workout photos). However, you can take comfort in the fact that there is absolutely no way that Staley is going to be there at #33.

[bernbabybern820]

Best lineman available (Staley, then Kalil, then Grubbs, then Blalock, then Sears)

[Komp]

Best lineman available (Staley, then Kalil, then Grubbs, then Blalock, then Sears)


That is they way I'd do it, altho I'd have Blalock ahead of Grubbs on my depth chart.

[ThALiVinLeGeND]

I wouldnt draft Kalil. Jake Grove still has a promising career

[raidersfanxxx]

yeah, i think that the zbs is going to do wonders for both gallery and groves careers.

[skatman]

yeah, i think that the zbs is going to do wonders for both gallery and groves careers.

god, I hope so.

[portermvp84]

I think if it doesn't this year, we should cut them both and start fresh.

[NotoRussell]

I think if it doesn't this year, we should cut them both and start fresh.

so you would draft Joe Thomas as 1st overall?
give Gallery and Grove the chance to show what they can do with the new coach and new system.

[portermvp84]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying if Gallery and Grove have another sucky year we should cut them and start fresh NEXT YEAR. I'll give them one more chance be for they're declared busts. I think we should be smart in this draft and draft guys like Kalil, Blalock, Grubbs, or Staley. We just need to be smart about what we do this offseason.

[bernbabybern820]

That is they way I'd do it, altho I'd have Blalock ahead of Grubbs on my depth chart.

idk the more and more i see Grubbs on tape the more i love him. Very aggressive and has room to get bigger without being too slow.

[bernbabybern820]

i love kalil too and hes already very experienced in the zone blocking scheme and very quick to get to the second level.

[spinuzza13]

None of you guys no this stuff you guys are all lame in past drafts teams drafted quarterbacks in the first round only leading them to a dissapointing season example david carr,and joey harrington.
i would draft calvin johnson number 1 overall then draft troy smith in the second round because he is no hesiman trophy winner for no reason he beat brady quin for the heisman. i know he is small but he had ohio state undefeated and the national championship brought his stocks down. go troy smith i would still trade for mccown though =D go raiders!!!!!!!! not to mention the revamp of the offensive line. jeremy new berry and that one guy from denver who is visiting oakland this week he is pretty good.
lets wait and see ohio states pro day workout. lets see anybody top this fools

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

Troy SMith at the top of the 2nd?the heisman means nothing when it comes to prospects.Jason White won the Heisman to you know.

[slightlyaraiderfan]

Troy Smith 2nd round? ouch.

And I wouldn't really call adding Newberry as revamping the o-line, it's pretty much the same people...different system.

[spinuzza13]

we will see on their proday work out tell me why he shouldnt go in the second round and if he beat quinn then even more the reason

[slightlyaraiderfan]

we will see on their proday work out tell me why he shouldnt go in the second round and if he beat quinn then even more the reason
OU's Jason White also won the Heisman, where is he now?

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

1.By Product of the talent around him.
2.Lack of arm strength.
3.Size
4.The Heisman means nothing.
5.College Sucess doesnt mean much.
6.Lack of Starts.
7.Mechanics arent good.
8.Him beating Quinn for Heisman or the Fiesta Bowl means nothing at all.

[Stash]

College success doesn't neccessarily translate to pro success, that is why it is so difficult to tell which players will be good and which won't. I guess most NFL scouts don't feel that Smith's college success will translate well to the pros, therefore teams will be less likely to use a high draft pick on him.

[portermvp84]

That is true, Troy Smith had everything given to him on the Ohio State team. If he guoes to a team like the Browns he's gonna suck. Because he does not have any stand out weapons like A Gonzo, Ginn, and a sturdy o line. IMO he's gonna suck in the NFL.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

on the Browns he has Winslow and Edwards.

[portermvp84]

I know, but you know what I mean a sucky team besdies us.

[Windy]

I probably should of left out Joe Staley because he most likely won't be there at #33. Kalil it is.

[raidersfanxxx]

what do you guys think of it?

[Windy]

I think Marcus Thomas is a reach at the top of round 3 other than that it's solid.

[RaiderNation]

i think we go oline with the first 3rd rounder. love the 1st

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I like it but I agree with WCBGU that Thomas is a bit of a reach.

[Romyrick]

I hope we dont make the mistake of taking Calvin Johnson

[Komp]

I don't mind the CJ pick as much as the Edwards pick. I'm 100% against taking a Day 1 QB other than JR/Quinn [and Quinn only if we trade down].

I personally love the Marcus Thomas pick. I think he'll be a stud, but you guys are probably right that he will still be there with our other 3rd rd pick so we could pick up another OT/OG.

[RaiderNation]

I hope we dont make the mistake of taking Calvin Johnson

picking the best prospect and probably the best prospect ever is a mistake?

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I dont get how drafting a WR thats 6'5 240 pounds that runs a 4.35 40 with basically no weakness is a mistake.

[Caddy]

I dont get how drafting a WR thats 6'5 240 pounds that runs a 4.35 40 with basically no weakness is a mistake.

He is probably just being a pessimist. But I hope the Raiders pass on him for Tampa's sake.

[Romyrick]

He is probably just being a pessimist. But I hope the Raiders pass on him for Tampa's sake.

It wouldnt be a pessimist, it would be a contrarian.

Anyways its a mistake because of Position Scarcity.

[gdamac]

picking the best prospect and probably the best prospect ever is a mistake?

Ever? that's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? Certainly this year and maybe, I say maybe, the best prospect at WR ever, but best overall prospect ever? I would have to give that mantle to John Elway, with Peyton Manning as a distant second.

[gdamac]

I like his round one, you can't argue with CJ but I would hope we trade him for BQ or JR + picks.

[661rep]

I don't like the idea of drafting CJ. I think we need a QB, and if not a QB we need to cut L. Jordan and draft Peterson.

[NotoRussell]

He is probably just being a pessimist. But I hope the Raiders pass on him for Tampa's sake.

you guys in Tampa are the luckies people in the world if we pass on CJ;)

[NotoRussell]

I don't like the idea of drafting CJ. I think we need a QB, and if not a QB we need to cut L. Jordan and draft Peterson.

we already have Rhodes. he will be a nice starter.

[bucksavage]

It wouldnt be a pessimist, it would be a contrarian.

Anyways its a mistake because of Position Scarcity.

I agree, CJ doesnt make us any better next year. just another one our 4th or 5th talented reciever and nobody to get them the ball. Then we are gonna have a record salary # for our Wide Reciever core. Taking CJ makes no sense

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

NEither does RUssell.THey're both long term.

[661rep]

we already have Rhodes. he will be a nice starter.

No, Rhodes will be a nice backup to a real RB not named Lamont Jordan. But I guess i'm willing to give Jordan another chance with the new coaching staff and OL additions.

[Crow]

Johnson in 1 is perfect. The rest pretty much leaves me cold.


Also, we can't afford the cap hit cutting Jordan this year would create. Next year, on the other hand, we'd net a nice little savings by cutting him.


Our WR position is in trouble, so taking Johnson makes a ton of sense.

Moss is gone. He's also a nappy headed ho and a quitter.
Porter and Gabriel are FAs after the season.
Curry is outstanding, but his ankles are still a concern.
Morant, Francis, Buchanon...not a starting caliber WR in the bunch.

We need Calvin Johnson. The fact that he's far and away the best and safest prospect in this class only makes the choice that much easier.

We need a RB as well. But in this scheme, taking a RB in Rd1 is bad business. Irons, Leonard, or Hunt in Rd3, if they're there, would be outstanding.

[bucksavage]

NEither does RUssell.THey're both long term.

Russell can be plugged in next year just like Palmer was and generate some hope in this franchise. Johnson is just a WR, not a huge impact in the games as a QB.

And as for Porter and Moss potentially being gone after next season, if a stable QB and coach is in place they may not go. But if they do, WRs are a easily replaceable position.

If we do not not take Russell, It will be a giant mistake and within 2 years we will have the #1 pick again

[NotoRussell]

so if Porter and Moss are gone at the latest next season,Moss probably this draft day, then we need a WR.
2nd round of this year should be adressed to a WR if we draft JR.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

Russell can be plugged in next year just like Palmer was and generate some hope in this franchise. Johnson is just a WR, not a huge impact in the games as a QB.Palmer didnt play his whole entire rookie year.Thats not even relevant.And although Russell has a great arm hes still a rookie QB and the defense wont worry that much about Russell.CJ is CJ.The defense will focus alot on him.

And as for Porter and Moss potentially being gone after next season, if a stable QB and coach is in place they may not go. But if they do, WRs are a easily replaceable position.
well i doubt that Moss is still on this team come draft day.There isnt a prospect coming out next year that is like CJ.So we if pass on him we wont get another shot.

[Crow]

so if Porter and Moss are gone at the latest next season,Moss probably this draft day, then we need a WR.
2nd round of this year should be adressed to a WR if we draft JR.

Can't assign a round to a certain position. You take the best available player at a position of need. In this case, that means taking Johnson at #1, then trading up for someone like Marshawn Lynch, or waiting to see who falls into our lap. Might be a DE. Might be Ryan Kalil. I certainly wouldn't commit myself to taking a WR at #33. After Johnson, the talent at that position falls off considerably.

If we do not not take Russell, It will be a giant mistake and within 2 years we will have the #1 pick again

Dion Warwick called. Your application has been rejected. Psychic you're not.

[Romyrick]

Wait a minute, Rookie Wide outs have not exactly been the belle of the ball in thier rookie years.

[Crow]

The NFL will still be in business after 2007, you realize.

[Romyrick]

The NFL will still be in business after 2007, you realize.

Idiot, thats your knock on Russell.

[661rep]

Johnson in 1 is perfect. The rest pretty much leaves me cold.

Our WR position is in trouble, so taking Johnson makes a ton of sense.

Moss is gone. He's also a nappy headed ho and a quitter.
Porter and Gabriel are FAs after the season.

Yeah, Johnson is the best WR in this class, but I still see 4 other WRs who could have just as good careers as CJ if not better. Also are you sure Porter is a FA after this year? didn't he sign like a 5 year deal in 05?

As of right now our QB position is in more trouble then our WR positon, then you add that the QB is the most important position on the field. With Russelle I can see this team improving tremendously, but with CJ I don't. I just feel we need a QB to lead this team IMO.

[bucksavage]

Can't assign a round to a certain position. You take the best available player at a position of need. In this case, that means taking Johnson at #1, then trading up for someone like Marshawn Lynch, or waiting to see who falls into our lap. Might be a DE. Might be Ryan Kalil. I certainly wouldn't commit myself to taking a WR at #33. After Johnson, the talent at that position falls off considerably.



Dion Warwick called. Your application has been rejected. Psychic you're not.

Thats false. In the 1st round especially the #1 overall pick can be assigned to a position. Thats why Qbs are normally pick #1 and WR, Guards, Center, tight ends,DT,LB,CB and Safety are not.

So by your theory the Cardinals should take Brady Quinn at #5

Need vs BPA reallydepends what position your team is. If your team is like the patriots,colts bears,ravens etc you wanna fill your most glaring need in the 1st because you have a serious chance to reach the Super bowl again. BPA should be used if you dont have a huge hole in a key positon such as QB

[bucksavage]

Yeah, Johnson is the best WR in this class, but I still see 4 other WRs who could have just as good careers as CJ if not better. Also are you sure Porter is a FA after this year? didn't he sign like a 5 year deal in 05?

As of right now our QB position is in more trouble then our WR positon, then you add that the QB is the most important position on the field. With Russelle I can see this team improving tremendously, but with CJ I don't. I just feel we need a QB to lead this team IMO.

Porter has the option to opt out of his contract after next season. Porter will opt out if we have Walter stinking up the place but is Russell is here he will not opt out.



Palmer didnt play his whole entire rookie year.Thats not even relevant.And although Russell has a great arm hes still a rookie QB and the defense wont worry that much about Russell.CJ is CJ.The defense will focus alot on him.

well i doubt that Moss is still on this team come draft day.There isnt a prospect coming out next year that is like CJ.So we if pass on him we wont get another shot.

We already have a WR that the Defense focuses on and his name is Randy Moss. Moss is gonna be hear next season.

Al: doesnt want to give up Moss without great compensation

Moss: Doesnt wanna restructure his contract and get paid less

Packers: dont wanna take Randy's Contract

Kiffin: thinks that Moss can be a important part of this team

Russell: Needs Moss next year

[Crow]

Thats false. In the 1st round especially the #1 overall pick can be assigned to a position. Thats why Qbs are normally pick #1 and WR, Guards, Center, tight ends,DT,LB,CB and Safety are not.

DTs and WRs have and do go #1 overall.

You don't assign a position to a round, is what I said. Reading comprehension is fun, isn't it? Oh, wait.

So by your theory the Cardinals should take Brady Quinn at #5

Where in the hell did you get that? Now you're just rambling.

Need vs BPA reallydepends what position your team is. If your team is like the patriots,colts bears,ravens etc you wanna fill your most glaring need in the 1st because you have a serious chance to reach the Super bowl again. BPA should be used if you dont have a huge hole in a key positon such as QB

That's garbage. You'd never make it as a GM. Well, maybe in Detroit.

Good teams don't reach for need in the 1st round. That's why they're good teams. They actually know how to draft.

Calvin Johnson to Oakland has nothing to do with BPA vs Need. Calvin is the BPA and he addresses a need. Therefore, he's the most logical pick. The top player with the top pick. Simple math type stuff.

Regardless of how one feels about Andrew Walter, neither of these QBs warrants the #1 overall pick. Taking either there would be just plain dumb, IMO.

[Crow]

Porter has the option to opt out of his contract after next season. Porter will opt out if we have Walter stinking up the place but is Russell is here he will not opt out.

Told you this, did he?

Doesn't matter which QB is stinking up the place, Porter won't be here in 2008. That's almost a certainty.

We already have a WR that the Defense focuses on and his name is Randy Moss. Moss is gonna be hear next season.

If he is, we're already screwed. Moss is worthless to us. Anyone who saw the turd play this year realizes this.

Al: doesnt want to give up Moss without great compensation

Let me get Al's number from you. I need to ask him a couple things. You don't have it? Oh, so you're just making this sh/t up as you go? So...we're all wasting our time reading your baseless nonsense?

I swear, idiots should come with a warning label.

Moss: Doesnt wanna restructure his contract and get paid less

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't have Moss number either.

Packers: dont wanna take Randy's Contract

Are you going to say anything with any base or substance anywhere in this post?

Kiffin: thinks that Moss can be a important part of this team

I guess not.

Russell: Needs Moss next year

No he doesn't. We could put anyone out there to drop passes. Nothing special about the way Moss does it, unless you consider jogging half speed and folding up when a DB gets nearby to be special.

If Russell needs Moss, we can trade Moss to whoever drafts Russell.

[locseti]

Told you this, did he?

Doesn't matter which QB is stinking up the place, Porter won't be here in 2008. That's almost a certainty.



If he is, we're already screwed. Moss is worthless to us. Anyone who saw the turd play this year realizes this.



Let me get Al's number from you. I need to ask him a couple things. You don't have it? Oh, so you're just making this sh/t up as you go? So...we're all wasting our time reading your baseless nonsense?

I swear, idiots should come with a warning label.



I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't have Moss number either.



Are you going to say anything with any base or substance anywhere in this post?



I guess not.



No he doesn't. We could put anyone out there to drop passes. Nothing special about the way Moss does it, unless you consider jogging half speed and folding up when a DB gets nearby to be special.

If Russell needs Moss, we can trade Moss to whoever drafts Russell.

http://twoday.tuwien.ac.at/static/spitzipezi/images/keep%20smiling.jpg

[bucksavage]

DTs and WRs have and do go #1 overall.

You don't assign a position to a round, is what I said. Reading comprehension is fun, isn't it? Oh, wait.



Where in the hell did you get that? Now you're just rambling.



That's garbage. You'd never make it as a GM. Well, maybe in Detroit.

Good teams don't reach for need in the 1st round. That's why they're good teams. They actually know how to draft.

Calvin Johnson to Oakland has nothing to do with BPA vs Need. Calvin is the BPA and he addresses a need. Therefore, he's the most logical pick. The top player with the top pick. Simple math type stuff.

Regardless of how one feels about Andrew Walter, neither of these QBs warrants the #1 overall pick. Taking either there would be just plain dumb, IMO.


In recent Draft history since college football teams have incoporated more pro style offenses, Quarterback going #1 has increased and 1st round QBs transition into the NFL has been smoother. Keyshawn was the last WR to picked #1 and his impact was ho-hum. The last DT to be picked #1 was big daddy Wilkinson. He did sure turned around the Bengals franchise. QBs go #1 for a reason not Wide Recievers

You calling me a idiot but you want Andrew Walter to start and add another WR to have the highest paid WR core ever. Wait doesnt that sound like someone from Detriot?... WR is not a need. WR cannot do anything without Quarterback throwing the ball to them. Apparently you have not paid close attention to the last 2 years of horrible QB play which turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a normal WR.

What is with these Raider fans who want to keep scooping up other teams garbage QBs, start pathetic QBs and are totally against drafting a elite QB ??

[Stash]

You calling me a idiot but you want Andrew Walter to start and add another WR to have the highest paid WR core ever. Wait doesnt that sound like someone from Detriot?... WR is not a need. WR cannot do anything without Quarterback throwing the ball to them. Apparently you have not paid close attention to the last 2 years of horrible QB play which turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a normal WR.

I'm pretty sure at this point that everyone who wants CJ is assuming that Moss will be gone and that opens up plenty of room for the best WR prospect in a long time. And this past year the QB was not the problem at all IMO. Peyton Manning would have played just as poorly if he had been lined up behind center for the Raiders. I don't get Raider fans blaming Walter or anyone else who took the snaps for last years performance, it was clearly the o-line and horrible play calling. BTW, it was Moss's lack of effort that turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a $hitty WR.

What is with these Raider fans who want to keep scooping up other teams garbage QBs, start pathetic QBs and are totally against drafting a elite QB ??

I don't think Russell or Quinn are elite QB's at all. Both are overhyped to make up for a rather weak QB draft class. Russell was almost nobody before the bowl game where he played well against a crappy college defense and then he showed he can throw the ball really, really far. Quinn chokes in big games so I don't think I really want either of them, but if I had to choose one I would take Quinn because he at least has a great work ethic so you know you will get 110% from him.

[661rep]

In recent Draft history since college football teams have incoporated more pro style offenses, Quarterback going #1 has increased and 1st round QBs transition into the NFL has been smoother. Keyshawn was the last WR to picked #1 and his impact was ho-hum. The last DT to be picked #1 was big daddy Wilkinson. He did sure turned around the Bengals franchise. QBs go #1 for a reason not Wide Recievers

You calling me a idiot but you want Andrew Walter to start and add another WR to have the highest paid WR core ever. Wait doesnt that sound like someone from Detriot?... WR is not a need. WR cannot do anything without Quarterback throwing the ball to them. Apparently you have not paid close attention to the last 2 years of horrible QB play which turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a normal WR.

What is with these Raider fans who want to keep scooping up other teams garbage QBs, start pathetic QBs and are totally against drafting a elite QB ??

I gotta agree... some Raider fans seem like there hoping we can find another Gannon. The last 4 years we have had sucky QB play and because of that we haven't won more then 4(?) games in a season in four years.

The QB position is the most important on the offense... the WR position is like the 4th in importance IMO. I hope we draft a QB.

[bucksavage]

I'm pretty sure at this point that everyone who wants CJ is assuming that Moss will be gone and that opens up plenty of room for the best WR prospect in a long time. And this past year the QB was not the problem at all IMO. Peyton Manning would have played just as poorly if he had been lined up behind center for the Raiders. I don't get Raider fans blaming Walter or anyone else who took the snaps for last years performance, it was clearly the o-line and horrible play calling. BTW, it was Moss's lack of effort that turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a $hitty WR.


I don't think Russell or Quinn are elite QB's at all. Both are overhyped to make up for a rather weak QB draft class. Russell was almost nobody before the bowl game where he played well against a crappy college defense and then he showed he can throw the ball really, really far. Quinn chokes in big games so I don't think I really want either of them, but if I had to choose one I would take Quinn because he at least has a great work ethic so you know you will get 110% from him.

I dont where some of you posters get the idea that Russell was a nobody before the Sugar Bowl. This own websites Scott Wright has been reporting in his blogs about Russell potentially going #1 long before the Sugar bowl took place.

Walter and Brooks have to take some of the blame last year too. That doesnt make any sense to totally excuse Walter for his bad play last year.

[Crow]

In recent Draft history since college football teams have incoporated more pro style offenses, Quarterback going #1 has increased and 1st round QBs transition into the NFL has been smoother. Keyshawn was the last WR to picked #1 and his impact was ho-hum. The last DT to be picked #1 was big daddy Wilkinson. He did sure turned around the Bengals franchise. QBs go #1 for a reason not Wide Recievers

Calvin Johnson's jock strap could outplay Keyshawn.

QBs go #1 a lot. That's an organization crippling move as often as it is a step in the right direction.

You calling me a idiot

I never said you were an idiot. I just implied that you couldn't read. There's a difference.

but you want Andrew Walter to start

Why not?

and add another WR to have the highest paid WR core ever.

A WR corps that will have only Ronald Curry remaining from the top 4 after this season. You don't draft for the present. You draft with an eye towards the future. Taking Johnson not only prepares this team for life after Moss and Porter, he represents an upgrade over both.

Wait doesnt that sound like someone from Detriot?...

No. They used a top 10 pick 3 years in a row on WRs, the last time on a guy who ran something like a 5 flat in the 40. That was stupidity that only Matt Millen could achieve.

WR is not a need.

Yes. It really is. Anyone with half a brain can see that it is.

WR cannot do anything without Quarterback throwing the ball to them.

And a QB can't do jack without someone to throw to and someone to block for them. Walter had neither last year.

Apparently you have not paid close attention to the last 2 years

Ironic comedy at its finest.

of horrible QB play which turned the most dangerous weapon in the league into a normal WR.

Our QB play had nothing to do with Moss becoming a full time piece of trash. Our QBs didn't make him jog through his routes or drop touchdowns. He did that all on his own. But, considering you probably didn't see a single game last year, I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

What is with these Raider fans who want to keep scooping up other teams garbage QBs,

Like Gannon? Hos?

start pathetic QBs

Not our idea. That idiot in the jumpsuit did that without consulting us.

and are totally against drafting a elite QB ??

I'm not against drafting an elite QB. Problem is, this draft class doesn't have any. So, Johnson is the easy choice.

[Crow]

I gotta agree... some Raider fans seem like there hoping we can find another Gannon. The last 4 years we have had sucky QB play and because of that we haven't won more then 4(?) games in a season in four years.

The QB position is the most important on the offense... the WR position is like the 4th in importance IMO. I hope we draft a QB.

QB play isn't the sole reason, or even the primary reason, why this team has sucked eggs for the last few years.

Norv Turner
Jimmy Raye
Jim Colletto
Art Shell
Tom Walsh
Jackie Slater
Al Davis

There's 7 problems we've had more significant than our QB play.

Randy Moss
Alvis Whitted
Randal Williams
Courtney Anderson
LaMont Jordan

5 more problems from last year more problematic than our QB play.


I could go on.


Also, regardless of how you rate the QB and WR positions, you don't draft an inferior player because of the position he plays. That's just foolish.

[661rep]

QB play isn't the sole reason, or even the primary reason, why this team has sucked eggs for the last few years.

Norv Turner
Jimmy Raye
Jim Colletto
Art Shell
Tom Walsh
Jackie Slater
Al Davis

There's 7 problems we've had more significant than our QB play.

Randy Moss
Alvis Whitted
Randal Williams
Courtney Anderson
LaMont Jordan

5 more problems from last year more problematic than our QB play.


I could go on.


Also, regardless of how you rate the QB and WR positions, you don't draft an inferior player because of the position he plays. That's just foolish.

I understand that overall we have had bad coaches, players and ect. But we need a QB more so then any position right now, and there is Russell a Consenus top 3 pick. So if we take him #1 its not like were reaching to get a player for need.

I still dont see how you could say the WR position is more problematic then our QB position right now. The offensive line was the only position that was more problematic last year then the QB position. Also Jerry Porter didn't even play last year he seems excited about the season, Curry is good #3 WR, Moss right now is still on the team and even if we traded him we could find a very good WR in the 2nd round to go with Porter, and Curry. We need a QB.

[bernbabybern820]

werent you the one who was advocating drafting Peterson Crow?

[skatman]

I'd like Marcus Thomas as our 6th round Taj Hawthorne stoner pick, but at the top of the 3rd, people would be right to knock the pick. They haven't really made a big deal out of it, but the Raiders have passed on a lot of character question marks the last few years.

I don't think CJ is the guy at #1, so I obviously have a problem with #33.

Russell at #1, and either a DL or WR at #33. My best guess.

[Stash]

Walter and Brooks have to take some of the blame last year too. That doesnt make any sense to totally excuse Walter for his bad play last year.

What I was tyring to point out about the QB situation is that nobody could have been successfull behind that o-line with that kind of play calling. It doesn't make sense to blame Walter when he didn't have a chance. The o-line didn't block, the WR's didn't give a crap, the TE's were just terrible, and the RB's couldn't find a hole. How is that the QB's fault, especially when it was his first year as a starter? IMO it remains to be seen if Walter has what it takes to be a successfull NFL QB, all I ask is that the Raiders give him a better supporting cast (most importantly CJ and an improved o-line) and see if he's got what it takes.

[skatman]

What I was tyring to point out about the QB situation is that nobody could have been successfull behind that o-line with that kind of play calling. It doesn't make sense to blame Walter when he didn't have a chance. The o-line didn't block, the WR's didn't give a crap, the TE's were just terrible, and the RB's couldn't find a hole. How is that the QB's fault, especially when it was his first year as a starter? IMO it remains to be seen if Walter has what it takes to be a successfull NFL QB, all I ask is that the Raiders give him a better supporting cast (most importantly CJ and an improved o-line) and see if he's got what it takes.

How long should they wait? They don't know if he's any good, he hasn't shown anything. True, he didn't get any help. But that doesn't mean he has shown anything. If he was a 5th round pick, would you be this patient?

[bucksavage]

What I was tyring to point out about the QB situation is that nobody could have been successfull behind that o-line with that kind of play calling. It doesn't make sense to blame Walter when he didn't have a chance. The o-line didn't block, the WR's didn't give a crap, the TE's were just terrible, and the RB's couldn't find a hole. How is that the QB's fault, especially when it was his first year as a starter? IMO it remains to be seen if Walter has what it takes to be a successfull NFL QB, all I ask is that the Raiders give him a better supporting cast (most importantly CJ and an improved o-line) and see if he's got what it takes.

if you are giving a pass to Walter, why isnt Jordan getting one?? or even Aaron Brooks. Randy Moss?? Jerry Porter?? all of these players suffered from poor coaching and bad oline.

[bucksavage]

Calvin Johnson's jock strap could outplay Keyshawn.

QBs go #1 a lot. That's an organization crippling move as often as it is a step in the right direction.



I never said you were an idiot. I just implied that you couldn't read. There's a difference.



Why not?



A WR corps that will have only Ronald Curry remaining from the top 4 after this season. You don't draft for the present. You draft with an eye towards the future. Taking Johnson not only prepares this team for life after Moss and Porter, he represents an upgrade over both.



No. They used a top 10 pick 3 years in a row on WRs, the last time on a guy who ran something like a 5 flat in the 40. That was stupidity that only Matt Millen could achieve.



Yes. It really is. Anyone with half a brain can see that it is.



And a QB can't do jack without someone to throw to and someone to block for them. Walter had neither last year.



Ironic comedy at its finest.



Our QB play had nothing to do with Moss becoming a full time piece of trash. Our QBs didn't make him jog through his routes or drop touchdowns. He did that all on his own. But, considering you probably didn't see a single game last year, I wouldn't expect you to understand that.



Like Gannon? Hos?



Not our idea. That idiot in the jumpsuit did that without consulting us.



I'm not against drafting an elite QB. Problem is, this draft class doesn't have any. So, Johnson is the easy choice.


Im talking about the last 2-3 years where we have had Collins,Brooks and Walter Starting. Gannon and Hoss is in the past where we did not have the opportunity to take best QB to come the draft in years. Andrew Walter will ge t his chance to prove better but for you to say that his poor play last year was not his fault and everyone else is insane.

You say that these QBs are not worthy of the #1 pick and are not a elite prospect but we have experts like Mayock and Mcshay saying that Jamarcus Russell has the best skill set since John Elway. Plus Al Davis has even said that Russell's arm reminds him of John Elway.

[bucksavage]

Practice what you preach Crow

Example 1

I swear, idiots should come with a warning label.

I never said you were an idiot. I just implied that you couldn't read. There's a difference.

hypocritical posts

Example 2


Dion Warwick called. Your application has been rejected. Psychic you're not.

A WR corps that will have only Ronald Curry remaining from the top 4 after this season. You don't draft for the present. You draft with an eye towards the future. Taking Johnson not only prepares this team for life after Moss and Porter, he represents an upgrade over both.

hypocritical posts again. If your gonna insult someone...make sure you do not turn around and do the same thing

[RaiderNation]

Practice what you preach Crow

Example 1





hypocritical posts

Example 2






hypocritical posts again. If your gonna insult someone...make sure you do not turn around and do the same thing

he did say your a idiot, said there are alot of them

[661rep]

if you are giving a pass to Walter, why isnt Jordan getting one?? or even Aaron Brooks. Randy Moss?? Jerry Porter?? all of these players suffered from poor coaching and bad oline.

You're exactly right. Every skill position on the offense suffered because of poor O-line play. Jordan atleast showed he could rush for a 1000+ yards in 05 and he had like 1500 total yards when you include his recieving #s. Porter and Moss can still contribute adequately at the WR position. But Walter? What has he showed to warrant us not taking a QB? Man if we don't get a QB and Walter sucks again we will be the laughing stock of NFL far worse then we are now.

[bernbabybern820]

You're exactly right. Every skill position on the offense suffered because of poor O-line play. Jordan atleast showed he could rush for a 1000+ yards in 05 and he had like 1500 total yards when you include his recieving #s. Porter and Moss can still contribute adequately at the WR position. But Walter? What has he showed to warrant us not taking a QB? Man if we don't get a QB and Walter sucks again we will be the laughing stock of NFL far worse then we are now.

x3. (10 characters)

[Stash]

if you are giving a pass to Walter, why isnt Jordan getting one?? or even Aaron Brooks. Randy Moss?? Jerry Porter?? all of these players suffered from poor coaching and bad oline.

Pass protection is completely different than run blocking. Jordan is not performing well enough to live up to the big fat contract he signed (even though he recently re-negotiated). His best season was his first year in Oakland (when the o-line wasn't as bad as it was now) and he barely got over 1,000 yds and he only averaged around 3.3 per carry. Aaron Brooks had been on some talented Saints teams in the past and showed he is mediocre at best. Moss and Porter shouldn't have been affected by poor o-line play at all. I didn't know a bad o-line caused WR's to jog, drop passes, and become cry baby quitters.
You're exactly right. Every skill position on the offense suffered because of poor O-line play. Jordan atleast showed he could rush for a 1000+ yards in 05 and he had like 1500 total yards when you include his recieving #s. Porter and Moss can still contribute adequately at the WR position. But Walter? What has he showed to warrant us not taking a QB? Man if we don't get a QB and Walter sucks again we will be the laughing stock of NFL far worse then we are now.

I agree we should draft a QB to compete for the job, but not with the first pick. Why invest $40+ million in a guy when you don't know what you currently have at the position, you don't know if the o-line is going to suck again like last year, and you don't know if the WR's (Moss/Porter) are going to put in an effort if we lose a few games.

[bernbabybern820]

Pass protection is completely different than run blocking. Jordan is not performing well enough to live up to the big fat contract he signed (even though he recently re-negotiated). His best season was his first year in Oakland (when the o-line wasn't as bad as it was now) and he barely got over 1,000 yds and he only averaged around 3.3 per carry. Aaron Brooks had been on some talented Saints teams in the past and showed he is mediocre at best. Moss and Porter shouldn't have been affected by poor o-line play at all. I didn't know a bad o-line caused WR's to jog, drop passes, and become cry baby quitters.


I agree we should draft a QB to compete for the job, but not with the first pick. Why invest $40+ million in a guy when you don't know what you currently have at the position, you don't know if the o-line is going to suck again like last year, and you don't know if the WR's (Moss/Porter) are going to put in an effort if we lose a few games.

no the run blocking was horrible as well...

[661rep]

Pass protection is completely different than run blocking. Jordan is not performing well enough to live up to the big fat contract he signed (even though he recently re-negotiated). His best season was his first year in Oakland (when the o-line wasn't as bad as it was now) and he barely got over 1,000 yds and he only averaged around 3.3 per carry. Aaron Brooks had been on some talented Saints teams in the past and showed he is mediocre at best. Moss and Porter shouldn't have been affected by poor o-line play at all. I didn't know a bad o-line caused WR's to jog, drop passes, and become cry baby quitters.


I agree we should draft a QB to compete for the job, but not with the first pick. Why invest $40+ million in a guy when you don't know what you currently have at the position, you don't know if the o-line is going to suck again like last year, and you don't know if the WR's (Moss/Porter) are going to put in an effort if we lose a few games.

How can you say that a bad O-line or in our case the worst O-line in the NFL doesn't affect the WR. If the O-line can't protect more then a second and don't allow the WRs to run their routes of course the WRs are going to get frustrated. If the O-line don't do their job then the QB and definitely the WRs can't do theirs... because they all depend on the O-line.

You're right we don't know what we have at the QB position thats why it should be addressed first. Walter had a good pre-season his rookie year, he later got injured that same year. I won't blame him for last year, but I can't blame any other player either.

[skatman]

You're right we don't know what we have at the QB position thats why it should be addressed first.


Exactly......

[Stash]

How can you say that a bad O-line or in our case the worst O-line in the NFL doesn't affect the WR. If the O-line can't protect more then a second and don't allow the WRs to run their routes of course the WRs are going to get frustrated. If the O-line don't do their job then the QB and definitely the WRs can't do theirs... because they all depend on the O-line.

You're right we don't know what we have at the QB position thats why it should be addressed first. Walter had a good pre-season his rookie year, he later got injured that same year. I won't blame him for last year, but I can't blame any other player either.

You know what is funny about that first paragraph? That is pretty much my argument to defend the QB who is much, much more dependant on the o-line than the WR's. Yes, if the o-line is protecting poorly the WR's will see fewer passes because the QB will be sacked/pressured more often, but that doesn't mean they should be giving up on the ones that are thrown their way. If Moss is getting paid millions and millions of dollars to catch balls and then gives up on nearly every pass play, how can you blame that on the o-line? At least they were putting in the effort.

As for addressing the QB position first, I would rather find out what we already have before I passed up on the BPA (CJ) and spent $40 million on a QB who, IMO, is not as good as the top QB's in last years or next years class.

[Crow]

Idiot, thats your knock on Russell.

Hey, Idiot. Read again. That was someone else's knock on Russell. Not only are you an idiot, but you can't read either. Your mama did a piss poor job raising you, didn't she?

Yeah, Johnson is the best WR in this class, but I still see 4 other WRs who could have just as good careers as CJ if not better. Also are you sure Porter is a FA after this year? didn't he sign like a 5 year deal in 05?

It's voidable after this season by either Porter or the team. Odds are, one or the other is going to void the deal.

As of right now our QB position is in more trouble then our WR positon, then you add that the QB is the most important position on the field. With Russelle I can see this team improving tremendously, but with CJ I don't. I just feel we need a QB to lead this team IMO.

We don't know that the QB position is in more trouble. We simply don't know what Walter is capable of beyond what he did at ASU. He's yet to be given the chance to show whether or not he can play at this level. That clusterfuk last year certainly does not qualify as an indication of what Walter is capable of.

Also, adding a QB with the bust potential of JaMarcus Russell has as much of a chance of setting us back for 5 years as putting us on the road to recovery. Russell is one of the highest risk picks in this draft. We'd be damn fools to draft this guy.
I understand that overall we have had bad coaches, players and ect. But we need a QB more so then any position right now, and there is Russell a Consenus top 3 pick. So if we take him #1 its not like were reaching to get a player for need.

Consensus top 3 pick with an equal consensus on the risk a team takes drafting him. Every draft pick is a risk. But when it comes to a position as volatile as QB, you can't simply draft a QB because you believe you need a QB. You have to weigh the risk vs the reward and take a really hard look at the guy's desire and work ethic...both of which have been called into question by almost, if not every draftnik. That's just too great a risk, especially when you consider the fact we could address another great need with a superior prospect with a far superior desire to be great. The cap implications of a #1 overall QB bust are astronomical. We simply can't afford the risk.

I still dont see how you could say the WR position is more problematic then our QB position right now.

If I had a dollar for every missed opportunity caused by Moss' indifference, Whitted's incompetence, and Randal Williams'/Johnnie Morant's uselessness, I could damn near afford a new computer.

The offensive line was the only position that was more problematic last year then the QB position.

Another blessing those cretins on the sideline bestowed upon us. And also one of the primary reasons that it's just foolish to judge Walter's ability by what we saw last year. People really should have better sense than that.

Also Jerry Porter didn't even play last year he seems excited about the season,

It's a contract year for him. He should be excited.

Curry is good #3 WR,

With two healthy tendons, he's a #1 IMO.

Moss right now is still on the team

Which just goes to show you that Al Davis would rather cling to his mistakes rather than move swiftly to rectify them.

and even if we traded him we could find a very good WR in the 2nd round to go with Porter, and Curry.

No one of Johnson's caliber, and no one I'd use the #33 on. After Johnson, the drop-off is significant.

We need a QB.

We simply do not know that. We only have 1 QB on the roster, other than the two camp arms we added. We need to address the position, but we may already have our starter in place. Andrew Walter didn't just forget how to play football. The kid has game. It'd be nice to see him given the opportunity to show what he can do.

But, for argument's sake, let's say he's not our guy. Neither of these QBs people are trying to saddle us with inspire any confidence in me. Russell's work ethic and desire are sizable question marks. You just can't afford to put a guy like that under center. Quinn's accuracy comes and goes, and he looks fairly easy to rattle. I wouldn't touch either of these guys before Rd2. I don't trust them.

I'd just as soon give Walter his shot, and if he blows it, trade up for Brian Brohm next year. I'd rather have him than either of these two.
werent you the one who was advocating drafting Peterson Crow?

I was, and I'm still not opposed to us taking him. But if we stay at #1 overall, then I feel like we have to take the top prospect available. That's Calvin Johnson.
What I was tyring to point out about the QB situation is that nobody could have been successfull behind that o-line with that kind of play calling. It doesn't make sense to blame Walter when he didn't have a chance. The o-line didn't block, the WR's didn't give a crap, the TE's were just terrible, and the RB's couldn't find a hole. How is that the QB's fault, especially when it was his first year as a starter? IMO it remains to be seen if Walter has what it takes to be a successfull NFL QB, all I ask is that the Raiders give him a better supporting cast (most importantly CJ and an improved o-line) and see if he's got what it takes.
Smart man.

if you are giving a pass to Walter, why isnt Jordan getting one?? or even Aaron Brooks. Randy Moss?? Jerry Porter?? all of these players suffered from poor coaching and bad oline.

Jordan has started for 2 years and has failed to either impress or stay healthy. He's also admitted to not studying...which, to me, is reason enough to cut the guy.

Brooks has been a bad QB since he hit the scene. Even Art Shell couldn't make him any worse.

Moss doesn't deserve jack but a bus ticket and a pink slip. The coaches didn't tell him to jog through his routes or drop TDs.

Who's faulting Porter?
Im talking about the last 2-3 years where we have had Collins,Brooks and Walter Starting. Gannon and Hoss is in the past where we did not have the opportunity to take best QB to come the draft in years.

And we still don't have that opportunity this year. What's your point?

Andrew Walter will ge t his chance to prove better but for you to say that his poor play last year was not his fault and everyone else is insane.

Or it shows that some people here just have a better understanding of the situation than you. It's alright. We were all young and ignorant once.

You say that these QBs are not worthy of the #1 pick and are not a elite prospect but we have experts like Mayock and Mcshay saying that Jamarcus Russell has the best skill set since John Elway. Plus Al Davis has even said that Russell's arm reminds him of John Elway.

Skill set is a great term. But what does it have to do with desire, commitment, or leadership? Not a thing. Skill sets don't win football games. If they did, we would have never heard of Montana, Gannon, Warner, Brady, etc. Instead, Randal Cunningham, Mike Vick, Jeff George, and Ryan Leaf would all have had HoF careers.

Al Davis says a lot of things before the draft. Do you really think he's gotten so senile that he'd tip his hand? Me either. He also said that to Adam Schefter...someone he's on record as not really liking. Ya think maybe he was blowing smoke up Schefter's ass? Hmm.

[Crow]

Practice what you preach Crow

Example 1





hypocritical posts

Example 2






hypocritical posts again. If your gonna insult someone...make sure you do not turn around and do the same thing

I guess I'm missing something.

Maybe you really are an idiot.

[bucksavage]

I guess I'm missing something.

Maybe you really are an idiot.


look at message #46

[bucksavage]

Jordan has started for 2 years and has failed to either impress or stay healthy. He's also admitted to not studying...which, to me, is reason enough to cut the guy.

Brooks has been a bad QB since he hit the scene. Even Art Shell couldn't make him any worse.

Moss doesn't deserve jack but a bus ticket and a pink slip. The coaches didn't tell him to jog through his routes or drop TDs.

Who's faulting Porter?


And we still don't have that opportunity this year. What's your point?



Or it shows that some people here just have a better understanding of the situation than you. It's alright. We were all young and ignorant once.



Skill set is a great term. But what does it have to do with desire, commitment, or leadership? Not a thing. Skill sets don't win football games. If they did, we would have never heard of Montana, Gannon, Warner, Brady, etc. Instead, Randal Cunningham, Mike Vick, Jeff George, and Ryan Leaf would all have had HoF careers.

Al Davis says a lot of things before the draft. Do you really think he's gotten so senile that he'd tip his hand? Me either. He also said that to Adam Schefter...someone he's on record as not really liking. Ya think maybe he was blowing smoke up Schefter's ass? Hmm.

Your statements on players you dont like are obsurb and over exaggerated

Lamont Jordan Played well here his first year and give me a quote to where Jordan said he admitted to not studying. To say Lamont has failed to impress at any time is crazy

Aaron Brooks played at a Pro Bowl level for a few years with the Saints. To say that he's been bad since he hit the scene is foolish and makes me question your credibilty.

Again your coming up with the claim that Walter is not accountable for his poor play lol. Walter is a professional. He made bad throws, bad decisions etc. Your best claim for Walter to start next year is his play at ASU and his "lack" of a fair opportunity last year. To have Walter has our best option going to next season will be difficult to stomach.

I really love your examples of Qbs with the skill set argument. You use the best QBs to come out without the greatest skill sets then you mention the worst Qbs to come out with good skill sets. But purposely you fail to mention Peyton Manning, John Elway, Dan Marino, Troy Aikman, Donovan Mcnabb and Carson Palmer. Those are Quarterbacks who have came out with great skill sets and have been successful. Randall Cunningham had a good career btw Then you dont mention QBs than came in with leadership desire and commitment those are Qbs like leftwich(jury still out), Rick Mirer, Akilli Smith, Health Shuler, Danny Wuerrful, Gino Torretta, Eric Crouch. Come on there has been good examples of QBs with great skill set that have succeed and ones that have not.

Ironically Russell has the desire, commitment and leadership that you were talking about with the great skill set. Then even more ironically that Andrew Walter has failed to show that he has any of those traits as a QB

[skatman]

His new mock would be a dream.

Russell, Ugoh, Alama-Francis, and Thomas.

[RaiderNation]

if the 1st pick were CJ it would be the best oakland mock ive seen.

[bucksavage]

Scott has just changed his mock draft to better picks

[Crow]

He changed it, but the picks certainly aren't any better.

[Crow]

ramble, ramble, blah, blah...

Ironically Russell has the desire, commitment and leadership that you were talking about with the great skill set.

Is that right? Funny how that's his biggest question mark.

Believe me, if he had the heart and head to match his physical abilities, he'd be the clear cut #1 prospect available and I'd be on board. As it stands, he's not even the consensus #1 QB in this class.

Buyer beware. This guy screams bust.

[bucksavage]

Is that right? Funny how that's his biggest question mark.

Believe me, if he had the heart and head to match his physical abilities, he'd be the clear cut #1 prospect available and I'd be on board. As it stands, he's not even the consensus #1 QB in this class.

Buyer beware. This guy screams bust.

8 4th quarter comebacks. Every prospect has a change to bust. We need a QB to change this team. Russell is gonna be the Pick

Heres the jersey your gonna order
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6915/prodyq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[661rep]

Is that right? Funny how that's his biggest question mark.

Believe me, if he had the heart and head to match his physical abilities, he'd be the clear cut #1 prospect available and I'd be on board. As it stands, he's not even the consensus #1 QB in this class.

Buyer beware. This guy screams bust.

I believe V.Young wasn't considered the #1 consensus QB last year, but that didn't stop him from winning ROTY.

Its funny people were screaming bust about V. Young and saying he was a 3 year project last year almost everyone labeled Young as a boom or bust prospect.... its pointless to argue whois going to be a bust... lets just hope whoever we draft isn't a bust.

[Crow]

I believe V.Young wasn't considered the #1 consensus QB last year, but that didn't stop him from winning ROTY.

Neither did the fact that he didn't deserve RotY, but that's another matter for another thread.

Its funny people were screaming bust about V. Young and saying he was a 3 year project last year almost everyone labeled Young as a boom or bust prospect.... its pointless to argue whois going to be a bust... lets just hope whoever we draft isn't a bust.

We still don't know if Young is going to pan out. I think there's still a great chance that he could flop due simply to his passing skills not catching up to his athleticism. Wouldn't be the first to have that happen.

Bad comparison, though. From a heart and desire standpoint, Young is head & shoulders above Russell.

And it's far from pointless to discuss bust probability. Some players are just more likely than others to fall flat on their faces. Obviously, there's no way to know for sure. But some guys definitely look the part. Ron Dayne comes to mind. Mike Williams. Anyone labeled with any adjective that could be interpreted as meaning lazy. Russell just doesn't strike me as a guy who's going to dedicate himself to the Monday-Saturday work necessary to be a good NFL QB. Damn shame, too. Those tools on a bookworm/film junkie would have Hall of Fame potential.

Oh well. Hopefully, Al will do the right thing and all of this will be moot.

[Crow]

8 4th quarter comebacks.

8 games where he managed to dig himself out of the hole he dug.

Every prospect has a change to bust. We need a QB to change this team.

A QB isn't going to change this team. If Kiffin, Knapp, and Cable are legit, that's a start. Ridding ourselves of trash like Randy Moss is a mandatory move if we're going to get this thing turned around. Bringing in another green QB won't do a thing for us while the rest of the team sucks.

Russell is gonna be the Pick

Heres the jersey your gonna order
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6915/prodyq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that. I can get a paper bag with eye holes a lot cheaper.

[NotoRussell]

i would prefer Blalock 2nd, because he can play RT if we move Gallery back to LT.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

1.CJ
2.Edwards
3a.Bazuin
3b.Allen Barbre
4.Kevin Boss

[Crow]

I'd post my mock, but there's too many people here who post on my site and are in the draft contest...and I ain't giving away my picks. http://www.thenflforums.com/forums/images/smilies/ipimp.gif

[portermvp84]

1.CJ
2. Kalil
3A. Edwards
3B. If he's there Moses, if not go with Robinson
4. Te either Ben Patrick which I doubt he will be there or Scott Chandler has great size for a TE.