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RCAChainGang
07-25-2006, 01:29 PM
Vinatieri makes the ones that matter!

draftguru151
07-25-2006, 01:30 PM
It isn't even close, Vinatieri.

RyanLeaf#1
07-25-2006, 01:33 PM
It isn't even close, Vinatieri.

I couldnt agree with you more

Smooth Criminal
07-25-2006, 01:33 PM
Not a hard question to answer.

bigbluedefense
07-25-2006, 01:33 PM
Vanderjagt hasn't made an important field goal his whole career. The most overrated kicker ive ever seen. Vinatieri could possibly make the HOF if he continues to make clutch kicks. Vinatieri by a mile.

RCAChainGang
07-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Ive had lots of arguments with cowboys fans about this.

cunningham06
07-25-2006, 01:40 PM
Vanderjagt can't even do kickoffs, Vinatieri hands down, he makes important kicks that Vanderjagt doesn't.

drowe
07-25-2006, 01:40 PM
lol..unanimous so far.

Splat
07-25-2006, 01:41 PM
Vinatieri will own this poll!

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 01:45 PM
As a Cowboys fan, I absolutly love the addition of Vanderjagt but, I'd go with Vinatieri on this one. I'm hoping Vanderjagt can remain accurate in a non-domed stadium.

The Unseen
07-25-2006, 01:45 PM
Not only is there the typical argument of the un-clutch kicking of Vanderjagt...he doesn't do kickoffs. That's a waste of roster space, although it's not if it's the punter (does anyone know this?).

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 01:46 PM
Not only is there the typical argument of the un-clutch kicking of Vanderjagt...he doesn't do kickoffs. That's a waste of roster space, although it's not if it's the punter (does anyone know this?).

Well, actually he will kickoff for the cowboys this season.

The Unseen
07-25-2006, 01:51 PM
Okay then.

But I'm still going with Vinateri. The only clutch kick he's made (that I know of, don't bash me if I'm wrong) was after a botched first one that got re-done because of a subjective penalty - the comeback vs. the Bucs on MNF.

Staubach12
07-25-2006, 01:52 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? He missed one 46 yard kick, and everyone hates him. Know why the Colts didn't win that game? Because Peyton couldn't get them in the enzone that drive. That's it. And everyone misses sometime. Did you know Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career? It happens. Vanderjagt will make some cluch kicks this year. He'll prove his worth.

Geo
07-25-2006, 01:59 PM
Vanderjagt hasn't made an important field goal his whole career. The most overrated kicker ive ever seen.
To be fair, he made two superb 50+ yards kicks in heavy snowfall at Denver in 2002, a 54-yard FG at the end of regulation to tie the game and a game-winning 51-yard FG in overtime. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20021124_IND@DEN)

But that's the only legit clutch perfomance that I recall, whereas I can think of multiple times where the opposite held true.


Mike Shanahan and the citizens of Denver, Colorado are big fans of the Colts incidentally. :lol:

TitleTown088
07-25-2006, 02:44 PM
It isn't even close, Vinatieri.

cunningham06
07-25-2006, 02:45 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? He missed one 46 yard kick, and everyone hates him. Know why the Colts didn't win that game? Because Peyton couldn't get them in the enzone that drive. That's it. And everyone misses sometime. Did you know Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career? It happens. Vanderjagt will make some cluch kicks this year. He'll prove his worth.

Not on kickoffs he won't. Anyway what is with his attitude? He's a kicker! He needs to stop running his mouth about how he is the best who ever lived and is the star of the team.

Philliez01
07-25-2006, 02:47 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? He missed one 46 yard kick, and everyone hates him. Know why the Colts didn't win that game? Because Peyton couldn't get them in the enzone that drive. That's it. And everyone misses sometime. Did you know Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career? It happens. Vanderjagt will make some cluch kicks this year. He'll prove his worth.


You really can't compare NBA game-winning shots to NFL game-winning kicks, too big of a difference. A shot could be from half-court for all we know.

Vandy did miss a FG kick back in '00 (I believe) against Miami, I remember he missed the game-tying FG in New England (first game of the year) and the kick against Pittsburgh. Vinatieri missed what, a kick in the first game of the year in Oakland when they were up by at least a TD?

P-L
07-25-2006, 02:48 PM
Vanderjagt is probably the better fantasy option, but Vinatieri is the better overall kicker.

Jensen
07-25-2006, 02:49 PM
Vinatieri, and its not close at all. Why was this question even asked?

07-25-2006, 02:59 PM
Vinatieri, and its not close at all. Why was this question even asked?

Shane P. Hallam
07-25-2006, 03:03 PM
Question has been answered it seems. Well, if you want to change the direction of the thread, go for it.

RCAChainGang
07-25-2006, 03:10 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? He missed one 46 yard kick, and everyone hates him. Know why the Colts didn't win that game? Because Peyton couldn't get them in the enzone that drive. That's it. And everyone misses sometime. Did you know Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career? It happens. Vanderjagt will make some cluch kicks this year. He'll prove his worth.

I disagree if u dont get in the endzone and ur close thats wy there is a kicker. The reason Vinetieri is highly praised is cause when Tom Brady couldnt get into the endzone he turned to the kicker he made some big kicks to win playoff games and superbowls. The reason pats won is cuz of that kick. "People say well we won cause of that kick." but when he misses vanderjagt lovers say we lost that game cuz of Peyton Manning. He did fine it was the kick that lost it Sure Peyton could've played better and the line colud've played better, but that is no excuse for missing that kick. Dont get me wrong Vanderjagt is an amazing kicker but he isnt as amazing or as good as vinatieri. That is wy the colts picked him up. Vinatieri will make the crucial kicks...

Texico From Mexico
07-25-2006, 03:28 PM
Morton Anderson in his day owns them both! :D

njx9
07-25-2006, 03:32 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? He missed one 46 yard kick, and everyone hates him. Know why the Colts didn't win that game? Because Peyton couldn't get them in the enzone that drive. That's it. And everyone misses sometime. Did you know Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career? It happens. Vanderjagt will make some cluch kicks this year. He'll prove his worth.


You really can't compare NBA game-winning shots to NFL game-winning kicks, too big of a difference. A shot could be from half-court for all we know.


... and the kick could've been from 55+. what's your point?

additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?

Immaculate Tackle
07-25-2006, 03:33 PM
When I need an important kick at the end of a game, I know who I'll choose...

Mike Vanderjagt. That's right.



if I'm on the other team

Immaculate Tackle
07-25-2006, 03:36 PM
additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?

RCAChainGang
07-25-2006, 03:40 PM
additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?

The one against the titans in the playoffs,the one against the rams in the super bowl, and one against the panthers in the super bowl. Also like u said the oakland one.

07-25-2006, 03:46 PM
http://www.sportskevesti.net/t/content_images/capt.injh10403231902.colts_vinatieri_injh104.jpg

07-25-2006, 03:52 PM
the ppl who voted for vanderjagt must be the cowboys fans

RCAChainGang
07-25-2006, 03:56 PM
the ppl who voted for vanderjagt must be the cowboys fans

Ya i think that is a given :roll:

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:04 PM
the ppl who voted for vanderjagt must be the cowboys fans

Ya i think that is a given :roll:

Your probably right, there are a lot of homers on here but, i didnt vote for him.

Smooth Criminal
07-25-2006, 04:08 PM
Or they could be looking at stats.

Vanderjagt and Vinatieri had the same amount of attempts last year, 25. Vanderjagt made 92% of them while Vinatieri made 80%. Vinatieri also missed an extra point.

Vanderjagt is a better field goal kicker. If it wasn't for the miss against the Steelers he wouldn't be regarded as badly as he is.

I think Vinatieri is overrated. All of the clutch kicks he made weren't from hard distances. Most kickers in his situation would have made the same kicks. He just gets more opportunities to be the 'hero' than anyone else.

But with all that said, if I had to pick a kicker, I take Vinatieri because he does kickoffs and is still a reliable kicker.

But we all know the best kicker is Neil Rackers.

Texico From Mexico
07-25-2006, 04:23 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

Splat
07-25-2006, 04:25 PM
The fact that as of now 9 people have voted for Vanderjagt is just unreal.

Staubach12
07-25-2006, 04:26 PM
the ppl who voted for vanderjagt must be the cowboys fans

Ya i think that is a given :roll:

Your probably right, there are a lot of homers on here but, i didnt vote for him.

Me neither... thet makes me mad. Homers like that give us Cowboys fans a bad name.

07-25-2006, 04:26 PM
But we all know the best kicker is Neil Rackers.

Not this year. we're going for 7 not 3.

07-25-2006, 04:27 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:35 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

07-25-2006, 04:37 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:40 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Well, will still have to see on that one. We dont know how well Vandy will do in the non-domed Texas Stadium. He may be just as good.

scorchin
07-25-2006, 04:41 PM
Vinatieri, he kicks outside. It's not that hard to be good, when you kick inside most of your career.

07-25-2006, 04:41 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Well, will still have to see on that one. We dont know how well Vandy will do in the non-domed Texas Stadium. He may be just as good.

non domed?

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:43 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Well, will still have to see on that one. We dont know how well Vandy will do in the non-domed Texas Stadium. He may be just as good.

non domed?

You cant really consider it an actually dome.

Shiver
07-25-2006, 04:45 PM
More Clutch: Vinatieri
Better Kicker: Vanderjagt

07-25-2006, 04:45 PM
You cant really consider it an actually dome.

its better than being just outside. i think vanderjagt will put up similar numbers to what he has. I still consider him as the 3rd best kicker in the NFL

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:46 PM
You cant really consider it an actually dome.

its better than being just outside. i think vanderjagt will put up similar numbers to what he has. I still consider him as the 3rd best kicker in the NFL

Who are the top 2, in your opinion?

07-25-2006, 04:49 PM
You cant really consider it an actually dome.

its better than being just outside. i think vanderjagt will put up similar numbers to what he has. I still consider him as the 3rd best kicker in the NFL

Who are the top 2, in your opinion?

Vinatieri and Rackers. I am a lil biased though, being a Colts and Cardinals fan. I know this was Rackers first great year but i put him about equal with vanderjagt.

M.O.T.H.
07-25-2006, 04:50 PM
You cant really consider it an actually dome.

its better than being just outside. i think vanderjagt will put up similar numbers to what he has. I still consider him as the 3rd best kicker in the NFL

Who are the top 2, in your opinion?

Vinatieri and Rackers. I am a lil biased though, being a Colts and Cardinals fan. I know this was Rackers first great year but i put him about equal with vanderjagt.

rackers was amazing last year.

Texico From Mexico
07-25-2006, 04:51 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I agree too that Vin is better...but what is the purpose of this poll? Seems like a bash hunt.

Staubach12
07-25-2006, 05:05 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.

07-25-2006, 05:14 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.

thats not what i was saying. i was saying that Vinatieri's stats will go up b/c of playing in a dome

Staubach12
07-25-2006, 05:44 PM
Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth. Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D

no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.

I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.

vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions

Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.

thats not what i was saying. i was saying that Vinatieri's stats will go up b/c of playing in a dome

Oh, I thought you said Vanderjagts will go down. Sorry, my mistake. I agree, though.Vinetieri will do very well in the dome.

The Unseen
07-25-2006, 05:58 PM
...atlhough, it takes adjusting to kick in a dome. In the end it's easier, but if you are in a stadium that consistently gets wind (does the Razor?), you might over or under-compensate on your kicks in certain directions.

njx9
07-25-2006, 11:11 PM
additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?

the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.

njx9
07-25-2006, 11:13 PM
Vinatieri, he kicks outside. It's not that hard to be good, when you kick inside most of your career.

and yet the little kids on this board still think vinatieri's kick in st. louis was "incredible" or "clutch" somehow.

DHVF
07-25-2006, 11:16 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

njx9
07-25-2006, 11:19 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:

duckseason
07-25-2006, 11:22 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

Thread was created by a Colt fan. For quite awhile there, Vanderjagt was considered the top kicker. Vinatieri's heroics on the global stage vaulted him to potential HOF status. I'd rather have him too......but I'll take Neil Rackers over both. Did you guys see on NFL network when Rackers kicked 4 balls in a row, first 2 hit the left upright, the last 2 hit the right upright. Looked to be from about 50 yards. My jaw dropped.

1. Rackers
2. Vinatieri
3. Vanderjagt

cunningham06
07-25-2006, 11:23 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:

The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.

07-25-2006, 11:26 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

Thread was created by a Colt fan. For quite awhile there, Vanderjagt was considered the top kicker. Vinatieri's heroics on the global stage vaulted him to potential HOF status. I'd rather have him too......but I'll take Neil Rackers over both. Did you guys see on NFL network when Rackers kicked 4 balls in a row, first 2 hit the left upright, the last 2 hit the right upright. Looked to be from about 50 yards. My jaw dropped.

1. Rackers
2. Vinatieri
3. Vanderjagt

Ive seen b4 cardinals games racker will kick 40 yarders from out of bounds.

njx9
07-25-2006, 11:27 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:

The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.

every kicker does that.

and yeah, vinatieri was fricking unreal in 2003 when he missed four from 30-39, and 3 from 40-49. what a bloody all-world kicker :roll:

cunningham06
07-25-2006, 11:33 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:

The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.

every kicker does that.

and yeah, vinatieri was fricking unreal in 2003 when he missed four from 30-39, and 3 from 40-49. what a bloody all-world kicker :roll:

No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.

njx9
07-25-2006, 11:37 PM
No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.

thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.

cunningham06
07-25-2006, 11:41 PM
No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.

thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.

I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.

tylaw24
07-26-2006, 12:25 AM
additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?

the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.
Dude, those kicks were game winners. Did u happen to remember the time left on the clock? He is considered "clutch" because he made those kicks under tremendous pressure. A superbowl winning kick is a lot harder to make than a regular season kick. Duh!

BX
07-26-2006, 02:05 AM
How? Why? Have you kicked any game-winning field goals? Have you kicked any field goals at all? Where are you getting this assumption from? Madden '06?

njx9
07-26-2006, 07:09 AM
No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.

thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.

I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.

blahblahi'mwrongblahblah. no really, you're totally right. i mean, having actually been a holder for several teams including one at the college level, i've probably never seen an actual kicker in an actual game. your opinion is clearly so much better than mine considering you haven't pointed out a single kicker who DOESN'T lean it forward.

http://www.profootballhof.com/assets/default/Elam_T20_Feb21.jpg

you can clearly see that the ball is angled slightly forward and slightly towards the holder.

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img5799032.jpg

again, clearly angled slightly forward.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Player/57067_NeilRackers.GIF

huh, weird. another one angled slightly forward and towards the holder.



now that that's out of the way, go sit in a corner and don't post until you can verify that you in fact do have some vague degree of football knowledge. you've not posted a single thing in this or any other thread that i would've considered insightful or even "correct". you might try working on that, for starters.

njx9
07-26-2006, 07:12 AM
additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?

the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.
Dude, those kicks were game winners. Did u happen to remember the time left on the clock? He is considered "clutch" because he made those kicks under tremendous pressure. A superbowl winning kick is a lot harder to make than a regular season kick. Duh!

:roll:

no really, GREAT justification. no wind in a dome. period. boy, what a tough kick that saved the patriots from the brink of... overtime. yeah, boy, that was some scott norwood stuff right there.

NONE of vinatieri's kicks were win/lose situations.

drowe
07-26-2006, 08:51 AM
can't believe this is a debate. its gotta be vinatieri. i like how the vanderjacht supporters are trying to take the 'clutch' aspect out of the equation. that is a big part of being a kicker.

cunningham06
07-26-2006, 12:07 PM
No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.

thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.

I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.

blahblahi'mwrongblahblah. no really, you're totally right. i mean, having actually been a holder for several teams including one at the college level, i've probably never seen an actual kicker in an actual game. your opinion is clearly so much better than mine considering you haven't pointed out a single kicker who DOESN'T lean it forward.

http://www.profootballhof.com/assets/default/Elam_T20_Feb21.jpg

you can clearly see that the ball is angled slightly forward and slightly towards the holder.

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img5799032.jpg

again, clearly angled slightly forward.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Player/57067_NeilRackers.GIF

huh, weird. another one angled slightly forward and towards the holder.



now that that's out of the way, go sit in a corner and don't post until you can verify that you in fact do have some vague degree of football knowledge. you've not posted a single thing in this or any other thread that i would've considered insightful or even "correct". you might try working on that, for starters.

Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

tylaw24
07-26-2006, 08:05 PM
How? Why? Have you kicked any game-winning field goals? Have you kicked any field goals at all? Where are you getting this assumption from? Madden '06?
Its the fkin superbowl! only ONE team wins it every year. ffs! what dont u get about my argument? does anyone else find what these people are saying to be irritating?

Staubach12
07-26-2006, 08:20 PM
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.

The only reason he's in the thread is because nathan put him there. The only people voting for him are homer cowboys fans, yes.

frogstomp
07-26-2006, 08:27 PM
You guys are all missing the key question...

Who cares? They're kickers.

07-26-2006, 08:44 PM
I can't believe Mike got 21 votes.

Staubach12
07-26-2006, 08:45 PM
You guys are all missing the key question...

Who cares? They're kickers.

I care. A crappy kicker lost Dallas 3 games last year. We would have been 12-4.

Texico From Mexico
07-26-2006, 08:50 PM
You guys are all missing the key question...

Who cares? They're kickers.

I care. A crappy kicker lost Dallas 3 games last year. We would have been 12-4.

I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

duckseason
07-26-2006, 10:35 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.

njx9
07-27-2006, 08:24 AM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

P-L
07-27-2006, 08:53 AM
You tell him njx. :lol: :lol:

Texico From Mexico
07-27-2006, 01:58 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 02:01 PM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

Sorry, but I believe what Vinatieri says himself about how he kicks more than any of the "evidence" you've presented. Yes most kickers kick with some lean, we agree on that point, but Vinatieri likes a little more, and I don't see why this point is so important to you that you feel the need to have this long of a debate about it.

bigbluedefense
07-27-2006, 02:05 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

njx9
07-27-2006, 02:06 PM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

Sorry, but I believe what Vinatieri says himself about how he kicks more than any of the "evidence" you've presented. Yes most kickers kick with some lean, we agree on that point, but Vinatieri likes a little more, and I don't see why this point is so important to you that you feel the need to have this long of a debate about it.

because you have yet to be right about a single thing in this debate. so as long as you say things like "your evidence sucks, but my hearsay clearly proves that ..." i'm going to tell you what an awful argument that is.

the fact is, you still don't have any idea what you're talking about and yet you continue talking. as long as you do so, i'm going loudly let you know that you don't know anything about sports in general. *shrug*

Texico From Mexico
07-27-2006, 02:27 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

bigbluedefense
07-27-2006, 02:47 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

Your dallas team's were good, but theres NO way they couldve blocked LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks...their Oline wasn't fast enough for it. You guys had big powerful olinemen, but that LB core would blow right past them. And that LB core would smack Emmit like they were his daddy. The 90 49ers had just as good of an Oline as the Cowboys and the Giants slapped it around for fun. And Troy "i get a concussion whenever someone sneezes on me" Aikman would be out of the game by the 1st quarter after LT puts a Joe Theisman on his butt. :D

You can't say Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Why? Because they didn't win 4 championships, period. Wouldve couldve shouldve doesn't count. Jimmy is not better than Parcells and you know it...theres no need to go over this again with you. He BOMBED in Miami, he was a one team wonder. Great drafter? Yes. Great head coach? Not really. Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship. They played in an era where there was 2 good teams in the NFL. The 90s didn't produce the type of players the 80s or the 70s did. A lot of teams would spank that cowboy team, the Steel Curtain, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 89 49ers, heck...i think Landry's squad was better.

Theres no need to carry this on, we're detracting from the subject. If you wanna whine about how great Jimmy's jock is then make a thread about it.

Texico From Mexico
07-27-2006, 02:49 PM
Please do not reply back to this thread until you understand football.

That is all....

bigbluedefense
07-27-2006, 02:56 PM
Please do not reply back to this thread until you understand football.

That is all....

So I guess you can't respond to this thread anymore...or any thread for that matter :D

Staubach12
07-27-2006, 03:04 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

Your dallas team's were good, but theres NO way they couldve blocked LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks...their Oline wasn't fast enough for it. You guys had big powerful olinemen, but that LB core would blow right past them. And that LB core would smack Emmit like they were his daddy. The 90 49ers had just as good of an Oline as the Cowboys and the Giants slapped it around for fun. And Troy "i get a concussion whenever someone sneezes on me" Aikman would be out of the game by the 1st quarter after LT puts a Joe Theisman on his butt. :D

You can't say Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Why? Because they didn't win 4 championships, period. Wouldve couldve shouldve doesn't count. Jimmy is not better than Parcells and you know it...theres no need to go over this again with you. He BOMBED in Miami, he was a one team wonder. Great drafter? Yes. Great head coach? Not really. Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship. They played in an era where there was 2 good teams in the NFL. The 90s didn't produce the type of players the 80s or the 70s did. A lot of teams would spank that cowboy team, the Steel Curtain, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 89 49ers, heck...i think Landry's squad was better.

Theres no need to carry this on, we're detracting from the subject. If you wanna whine about how great Jimmy's jock is then make a thread about it.

Woah, woah, now. Now you're just disrespecting the Cowboys. We had the best O Line. Ever. That's it. Also Emmitt Smith could still run on them. He ran on everyone. Smith played with the most energy and the most force of any player I've ever seen. He moved nose tackles on his back every day, and no one could stop him. Not LT, not Harry Carson, and not Carl Banks. Troy Aikman was one of the most accurate passers in NFL history, he also had a cannon, and he was a winner. And Aikman was tough. He played through more pain than you can imagine. Yeah, he had a few concussions, and that cost him his career, but he was one of the most talented QBs ever to play the game. And don't give me the " Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship." crap. Johnson pulled that team together, made it the best, and when he left it all fell apart. The 95 Cowboys was a team putting out it's last best effort to win, and they were living off the shadow that Jimmy left, not Switzer. I'm not saying BP is not as good as Jimmy, because I beleive BP is a bit better, just don't talk about my team like that.

bigbluedefense
07-27-2006, 03:17 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

Your dallas team's were good, but theres NO way they couldve blocked LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks...their Oline wasn't fast enough for it. You guys had big powerful olinemen, but that LB core would blow right past them. And that LB core would smack Emmit like they were his daddy. The 90 49ers had just as good of an Oline as the Cowboys and the Giants slapped it around for fun. And Troy "i get a concussion whenever someone sneezes on me" Aikman would be out of the game by the 1st quarter after LT puts a Joe Theisman on his butt. :D

You can't say Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Why? Because they didn't win 4 championships, period. Wouldve couldve shouldve doesn't count. Jimmy is not better than Parcells and you know it...theres no need to go over this again with you. He BOMBED in Miami, he was a one team wonder. Great drafter? Yes. Great head coach? Not really. Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship. They played in an era where there was 2 good teams in the NFL. The 90s didn't produce the type of players the 80s or the 70s did. A lot of teams would spank that cowboy team, the Steel Curtain, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 89 49ers, heck...i think Landry's squad was better.

Theres no need to carry this on, we're detracting from the subject. If you wanna whine about how great Jimmy's jock is then make a thread about it.

Woah, woah, now. Now you're just disrespecting the Cowboys. We had the best O Line. Ever. That's it. Also Emmitt Smith could still run on them. He ran on everyone. Smith played with the most energy and the most force of any player I've ever seen. He moved nose tackles on his back every day, and no one could stop him. Not LT, not Harry Carson, and not Carl Banks. Troy Aikman was one of the most accurate passers in NFL history, he also had a cannon, and he was a winner. And Aikman was tough. He played through more pain than you can imagine. Yeah, he had a few concussions, and that cost him his career, but he was one of the most talented QBs ever to play the game. And don't give me the " Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship." crap. Johnson pulled that team together, made it the best, and when he left it all fell apart. The 95 Cowboys was a team putting out it's last best effort to win, and they were living off the shadow that Jimmy left, not Switzer. I'm not saying BP is not as good as Jimmy, because I beleive BP is a bit better, just don't talk about my team like that.

Come on dude, don't act like there weren't other great teams. Its not disrespecting the Cowboys by saying other teams were better. Because there were better teams. That oline was good, the best if you will, but it wasn't so much better than the Niners oline in 89/90. I personally favor Landry's doomsday defense over the 90s cowboys. But thats just my opinion. But yeah, i have that team in my personal top 5, but it wasn't the best ever. An overlooked aspect of great teams is coaching staffs as well. I think the coaching tree of Bill Walsh, Parcells, Chuck Noll, and Landry would outsmart Jimmy in what would be a closely fought game. But anyway, its all subjective so arguing about it is useless.

And Id like to point out that it was my team that was disrespected first. I merely finished what someone else started. Now I don't want to comment on this subject matter anymore, we're detracting from the point of the thread. If you wanna continue discussing it, make a thread about it.

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 03:42 PM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

Sorry, but I believe what Vinatieri says himself about how he kicks more than any of the "evidence" you've presented. Yes most kickers kick with some lean, we agree on that point, but Vinatieri likes a little more, and I don't see why this point is so important to you that you feel the need to have this long of a debate about it.

because you have yet to be right about a single thing in this debate. so as long as you say things like "your evidence sucks, but my hearsay clearly proves that ..." i'm going to tell you what an awful argument that is.

the fact is, you still don't have any idea what you're talking about and yet you continue talking. as long as you do so, i'm going loudly let you know that you don't know anything about sports in general. *shrug*

You still did not answer my question about why this is so important to you that you feel the need to debate. If you disagree alright then, but don't question my knowledge of sports. What have you contributed to this topic? Jack **** thats what. You think people don't know that Vanderjagt is the most accurate kicker in the NFL? If stats were all that mattered we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we? So thank you for reminding us all of a stat we had already heard of. BTW the go sit in the corner insult or whatever that is isn't as funny now that you've used it multiple times. Your attempts at humor are kind of sad, but if you really want to continue to try, please go ahead.

Texico From Mexico
07-27-2006, 04:16 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

Your dallas team's were good, but theres NO way they couldve blocked LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks...their Oline wasn't fast enough for it. You guys had big powerful olinemen, but that LB core would blow right past them. And that LB core would smack Emmit like they were his daddy. The 90 49ers had just as good of an Oline as the Cowboys and the Giants slapped it around for fun. And Troy "i get a concussion whenever someone sneezes on me" Aikman would be out of the game by the 1st quarter after LT puts a Joe Theisman on his butt. :D

You can't say Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Why? Because they didn't win 4 championships, period. Wouldve couldve shouldve doesn't count. Jimmy is not better than Parcells and you know it...theres no need to go over this again with you. He BOMBED in Miami, he was a one team wonder. Great drafter? Yes. Great head coach? Not really. Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship. They played in an era where there was 2 good teams in the NFL. The 90s didn't produce the type of players the 80s or the 70s did. A lot of teams would spank that cowboy team, the Steel Curtain, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 89 49ers, heck...i think Landry's squad was better.

Theres no need to carry this on, we're detracting from the subject. If you wanna whine about how great Jimmy's jock is then make a thread about it.

Woah, woah, now. Now you're just disrespecting the Cowboys. We had the best O Line. Ever. That's it. Also Emmitt Smith could still run on them. He ran on everyone. Smith played with the most energy and the most force of any player I've ever seen. He moved nose tackles on his back every day, and no one could stop him. Not LT, not Harry Carson, and not Carl Banks. Troy Aikman was one of the most accurate passers in NFL history, he also had a cannon, and he was a winner. And Aikman was tough. He played through more pain than you can imagine. Yeah, he had a few concussions, and that cost him his career, but he was one of the most talented QBs ever to play the game. And don't give me the " Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship." crap. Johnson pulled that team together, made it the best, and when he left it all fell apart. The 95 Cowboys was a team putting out it's last best effort to win, and they were living off the shadow that Jimmy left, not Switzer. I'm not saying BP is not as good as Jimmy, because I beleive BP is a bit better, just don't talk about my team like that.

Come on dude, don't act like there weren't other great teams. Its not disrespecting the Cowboys by saying other teams were better. Because there were better teams. That oline was good, the best if you will, but it wasn't so much better than the Niners oline in 89/90. I personally favor Landry's doomsday defense over the 90s cowboys. But thats just my opinion. But yeah, i have that team in my personal top 5, but it wasn't the best ever. An overlooked aspect of great teams is coaching staffs as well. I think the coaching tree of Bill Walsh, Parcells, Chuck Noll, and Landry would outsmart Jimmy in what would be a closely fought game. But anyway, its all subjective so arguing about it is useless.

And Id like to point out that it was my team that was disrespected first. I merely finished what someone else started. Now I don't want to comment on this subject matter anymore, we're detracting from the point of the thread. If you wanna continue discussing it, make a thread about it.

Listen, Im gonna say this once. The Giants defense while good, would NOT have been able to stop the Cowobys Offense. Slow it down? Maybe..but the Giants offense was a JOKE! A Pure JOKE. The Cowboys D would have T' eed off off on it like nobodys business. Do you actually think Simms was a great QB? he was average AT BEST...AT BEST! Haley would have been all over him...the Cowboys defense in general would have been all over that team period! The score would have been something like 28 - 10. And I am giving you only 28 our of respect for Carson and Taylor...you think the Giants defense was fast? Not anywhere near the Cowobys defensive speed...

And I 100% agree with Jimmys philosophy..you have to win 2 of 3 phases of the game to be successful. Cowobys offense and special were head and shoulders above the Giants....defense IMHO was a split, but ill give you the GIants D.....we still win.

Game Over!

You and all the Giant fans put Parcells on a pedastal because of one reason.

He was the best thing to happen to that team since the 1950's/ early 60's?.....the Giants did jack crap for what? 20 something years???? Parcells is and was a just above average coach....thats is all.

portermvp84
07-27-2006, 04:22 PM
Adam because he has wons some big games and Vanderjerk has blown a game or two.

RCAChainGang
07-27-2006, 04:34 PM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

Sorry, but I believe what Vinatieri says himself about how he kicks more than any of the "evidence" you've presented. Yes most kickers kick with some lean, we agree on that point, but Vinatieri likes a little more, and I don't see why this point is so important to you that you feel the need to have this long of a debate about it.

because you have yet to be right about a single thing in this debate. so as long as you say things like "your evidence sucks, but my hearsay clearly proves that ..." i'm going to tell you what an awful argument that is.

the fact is, you still don't have any idea what you're talking about and yet you continue talking. as long as you do so, i'm going loudly let you know that you don't know anything about sports in general. *shrug*

You still did not answer my question about why this is so important to you that you feel the need to debate. If you disagree alright then, but don't question my knowledge of sports. What have you contributed to this topic? Jack *********** thats what. You think people don't know that Vanderjagt is the most accurate kicker in the NFL? If stats were all that mattered we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we? So thank you for reminding us all of a stat we had already heard of. BTW the go sit in the corner insult or whatever that is isn't as funny now that you've used it multiple times. Your attempts at humor are kind of sad, but if you really want to continue to try, please go ahead.

Hey i dont mean to blow this up anymore, but you both know a lot about football i've followed this argument and i have laughed numerous times. You guys are arguing over a way a holder holds the ball.
I will show an adam vinatieri pic and we will decide.

http://imagesource.allposters.com:80/images/pic/PHO/837231~Adam-Vinatieri-Snow-Game-12-7-03-Photofile-Posters.jpg

I hate to bust ur bubble cunningham but he kicks normal.

But im disappointed that u guys insulted each other so much on this thread. I dont see why u both are arguing and degrading each other as u are both prominent posters. :roll:

bigbluedefense
07-27-2006, 04:40 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Face it Tex...the 2 best coaches your team's ever had were GIANTS. And I know it hurts inside, but its not my fault we produce the best coaches in NFL history.

Oh yeah..he is so much better than Jimmy.. NOT! You need to wake up and realize that Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Had he been here they would had beat the 49ers in 95. Lets see Parcells equal that and I will shut the hell up! In fact not one of your Giant teams could have played with Jimmys teams! Not one and thats a fact! The 92-96 Cowboys would have spanked the 86- 91 Giants ass like a newborn babe! Even you can say no different. L.T. would not have EVEN sniffed Troy Aikman's jock with that OL he had!

And parcells did nothing with the PATS except lose....havent been been all over this subject in my class before? :wink:

Your dallas team's were good, but theres NO way they couldve blocked LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks...their Oline wasn't fast enough for it. You guys had big powerful olinemen, but that LB core would blow right past them. And that LB core would smack Emmit like they were his daddy. The 90 49ers had just as good of an Oline as the Cowboys and the Giants slapped it around for fun. And Troy "i get a concussion whenever someone sneezes on me" Aikman would be out of the game by the 1st quarter after LT puts a Joe Theisman on his butt. :D

You can't say Jimmy built a 4 year champion. Why? Because they didn't win 4 championships, period. Wouldve couldve shouldve doesn't count. Jimmy is not better than Parcells and you know it...theres no need to go over this again with you. He BOMBED in Miami, he was a one team wonder. Great drafter? Yes. Great head coach? Not really. Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship. They played in an era where there was 2 good teams in the NFL. The 90s didn't produce the type of players the 80s or the 70s did. A lot of teams would spank that cowboy team, the Steel Curtain, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 89 49ers, heck...i think Landry's squad was better.

Theres no need to carry this on, we're detracting from the subject. If you wanna whine about how great Jimmy's jock is then make a thread about it.

Woah, woah, now. Now you're just disrespecting the Cowboys. We had the best O Line. Ever. That's it. Also Emmitt Smith could still run on them. He ran on everyone. Smith played with the most energy and the most force of any player I've ever seen. He moved nose tackles on his back every day, and no one could stop him. Not LT, not Harry Carson, and not Carl Banks. Troy Aikman was one of the most accurate passers in NFL history, he also had a cannon, and he was a winner. And Aikman was tough. He played through more pain than you can imagine. Yeah, he had a few concussions, and that cost him his career, but he was one of the most talented QBs ever to play the game. And don't give me the " Barry Switzer coached that team to a championship." crap. Johnson pulled that team together, made it the best, and when he left it all fell apart. The 95 Cowboys was a team putting out it's last best effort to win, and they were living off the shadow that Jimmy left, not Switzer. I'm not saying BP is not as good as Jimmy, because I beleive BP is a bit better, just don't talk about my team like that.

Come on dude, don't act like there weren't other great teams. Its not disrespecting the Cowboys by saying other teams were better. Because there were better teams. That oline was good, the best if you will, but it wasn't so much better than the Niners oline in 89/90. I personally favor Landry's doomsday defense over the 90s cowboys. But thats just my opinion. But yeah, i have that team in my personal top 5, but it wasn't the best ever. An overlooked aspect of great teams is coaching staffs as well. I think the coaching tree of Bill Walsh, Parcells, Chuck Noll, and Landry would outsmart Jimmy in what would be a closely fought game. But anyway, its all subjective so arguing about it is useless.

And Id like to point out that it was my team that was disrespected first. I merely finished what someone else started. Now I don't want to comment on this subject matter anymore, we're detracting from the point of the thread. If you wanna continue discussing it, make a thread about it.

Listen, Im gonna say this once. The Giants defense while good, would NOT have been able to stop the Cowobys Offense. Slow it down? Maybe..but the Giants offense was a JOKE! A Pure JOKE. The Cowboys D would have T' eed off off on it like nobodys business. Do you actually think Simms was a great QB? he was average AT BEST...AT BEST! Haley would have been all over him...the Cowboys defense in general would have been all over that team period! The score would have been something like 28 - 10. And I am giving you only 28 our of respect for Carson and Taylor...you think the Giants defense was fast? Not anywhere near the Cowobys defensive speed...

And I 100% agree with Jimmys philosophy..you have to win 2 of 3 phases of the game to be successful. Cowobys offense and special were head and shoulders above the Giants....defense IMHO was a split, but ill give you the GIants D.....we still win.

Game Over!

You and all the Giant fans put Parcells on a pedastal because of one reason.

He was the best thing to happen to that team since the 1950's.....the Giants did jack crap for what? 20 something years???? Parcells is and was a just above average coach....thats is all.

I wouldn't go there my friend. The Giants are a more successful franchise than your beloved cowgirls. We have more championships (nfl championships and SBs combined), more total victories, more HOFers, more great head coaches, we invented the gatorade splash, the td spike, the football that your team plays with was named after our owner...shall I continue? Only the Packers and Bears can talk big about success in comparison to the Giants. So keep dreaming about Jimmy's jock....thats all you got.

And the Giants defense would stop your offense. The Redskins HOGs of the 80s were at the very least near equal to your line. They also won 3 championships (with 3 different qbs I might add which makes them even more impressive). And the Giants spanked that line, what makes you think yours would be any different? And yes, our offense wasn't that best ever, but it wasn't poor either. You had no one who could cover Bavaro, we had a great run attack. And Simms is not much different from Aikman, Aikman just had a better surrounding cast. Didn't Simms post the best qb rating in SB history? Right....but I guess our offense wasn't that great right? Especially when he did it against the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL that season? Right... Wait...but how about the spanking he put on the 49ers in the playoffs 49-3, against a defense that was in the top 5 in the league? Right....

And Charles Haley? He couldn't touch Simms when he was with the Niners, what makes you think he would when he was aged/slower with the Cowboys?

You need to stop arguing with people Tex. You get owned in every single thread you try. Its flat out embarrassing.

duckseason
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
I disagree...sure he should have made those kicks but if you live and die by playing low scoring close to the vest football like Parcells plays you will get burned eventually. And he did......never put your team in a postion to rely on a kicker! Sure sometimes it happens, but in Parcells case ....all too often!

Yeah! Let's switch to the run & shoot!! That way we can give up 20 point leads over the course of 10 minutes!!
Tex, get over it. Parcells is one of the greatest coaches this game has seen. For some reason, I trust his game-management philosophy a bit more than yours.
No! Lets play some balanced Football ala Jimmy Johnson! I am over it, now I want to see him do something than win 4 more games in the same time period as Gailey and Campo.....thats all he has done is win 4 MORE GAMES IN THREE YEARS! Its time to put up or shut up! You people are just living off his reputation that is so so so long ago! In fact before most of your were born, or very young. He had some success with the Giants in the 80's, sqeaked by a better Bills team (missed field goal, case in point) and you think hes god. Please.....

Umm...he put together arguably the greatest 3-4 defense ever in 86, won the SB in 90 with a BACKUP QB AND RB (forget the missed FG, we had our backup QB and RB in the game and STILL WON), took a 1-15 Jets team to the AFC championship, took a doormat Pats team to the SB, and now he's taken a Dallas team that was the laughing stock of the NFC and built them into a team that will contend for a championship well after he retires.

Exactly what I would have said. Just like to add that he did all this with completely different personnel each time. The one common denominator for all 4 of those teams was Parcells. That says alot. He has proven himself more so than any other coach, IMO.

On the other hand, Jimmy Johnson really hasn't. I don't say this to knock Jimmy. I always liked him. Think about it though. How much of the Cowboys success can really be attributed to Jimmy's coaching prowess?

Doesn't anybody remember the all-star cast of assistants he had? How could ANY Head Coach not win Super Bowls with the amount of talent/tutelage those Cowboys teams had? The fact that Jimmy did absolutely nothing in Miami while posting a 26-21 record (with one of the best offenses in football, and he's supposed to be some defensive genius) further discredits his "greatness". Who followed Jimmy in Miami? Oh yeah, his former D-coordinator in Dallas- Dave Wannstedt. He happened to go 65-40 during his stint with Miami. Much of it without Dan Marino.

Look, I like Jimmy as much as the next guy, but I'm not gonna let that cloud my judgement. To put him on the same level as one of footballs all-time greats is laughable. No coach in the history of the game has proven himself quite like Parcells has. Everywhere he goes, he turns grapes into wine. And he does it in short order. Recognize his resume, and give the man his due.

njx9
07-28-2006, 08:36 AM
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:

i just showed you several examples of why you're completely incorrect. further, i tend to read an inordinate number of your posts because i MODERATE A FEW OF THESE BOARDS. that means i have to watch the threads for things that need to be locked/deleted. that's sort of my job here. to read all the NFL/Draft/Mock board threads. so feel free to pm Ward and D and Xio and tell them to get lives too. i'm sure they'll appreciate it straight to deleteing your account.

again, feel free to never post on any of the aforementioned boards again until you're able to display at least one iota of general football knowledge. saying "i heard on some tv show once" is NOT, oddly enough, credible sourcing, and actually makes your argument far weaker when the other person shows you direct, first hand evidence of you being wrong.

if you're not going to say anything worthwhile in response, please do me a favor and just stop clicking the link to this board.

Sorry, but I believe what Vinatieri says himself about how he kicks more than any of the "evidence" you've presented. Yes most kickers kick with some lean, we agree on that point, but Vinatieri likes a little more, and I don't see why this point is so important to you that you feel the need to have this long of a debate about it.

because you have yet to be right about a single thing in this debate. so as long as you say things like "your evidence sucks, but my hearsay clearly proves that ..." i'm going to tell you what an awful argument that is.

the fact is, you still don't have any idea what you're talking about and yet you continue talking. as long as you do so, i'm going loudly let you know that you don't know anything about sports in general. *shrug*

You still did not answer my question about why this is so important to you that you feel the need to debate. If you disagree alright then, but don't question my knowledge of sports. What have you contributed to this topic? Jack *********** thats what. You think people don't know that Vanderjagt is the most accurate kicker in the NFL? If stats were all that mattered we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we? So thank you for reminding us all of a stat we had already heard of. BTW the go sit in the corner insult or whatever that is isn't as funny now that you've used it multiple times. Your attempts at humor are kind of sad, but if you really want to continue to try, please go ahead.

*yawn*

all right, then let me question your lack of ability to debate anything. you've been proven wrong. this isn't a disagreement in any way, shape or form. this is just you. being wrong. period.

i've visually demonstrated that you're wrong. you've given absolutely no evidence to dispute anything that's been said, and you haven't even done anything to support your position. in truth, it's not really relelvant to me what the debate is about because the simple fact of the matter is that you a) don't know what you're talking about, b) don't have the faintest clue how to effectively argue a position and c) have done this enough times across the forum that i've decided to call you out on it.

i will absolutely question your sports knowledge until you at least vaguely demonstrate that you do in fact have some. again. you've been proven wrong here. be a man, admit it and move on. the more you sit here and whine about "someone told you some stuff about something so i'm right and we just disagree" the worse it all looks. again, the fact is that i've proven, with evidence that's freely available on google images, that you've not got the faintest clue what you're talking about.

and again, being that it's sort of my job to look through almost every thread on this board, i'm going to notice 98% of your posts. when they look this bad, and when you fail to argue anything effectively, i will call you out on every single one.

the "go sit in the corner" thing is really not an insult. you can think of it as a sort of plea, as in, get away from your keyboard before you say anything else to weaken your own position in this or any other argument.

lastly: stats are all i've contributed? oh, right, i must've missed the general annoyance with board members in thinking that kicking in a dome, in a tied game is "clutch". beyond that, it seems like most board users DIDN'T know about vandy's kick pct. as most of them would, for whatever bizarre reason, rather have a guy who missed 50% of his kicks from 30-39 yards just three seasons ago.

but hey, tell me about stats again. it'd be fun to prove you wrong about something else and then see you go on for 17 pages about how it's "just a disagreement" and that you can think the world is made of snow if you want to. :roll:

RCAChainGang
07-28-2006, 01:27 PM
Wow this thread has brought out two at your throat arguments. :| Wy cant everyone get along? Or at least have an argument without insulting people! :roll:

njx9
07-28-2006, 01:39 PM
Wow this thread has brought out two at your throat arguments. :| Wy cant everyone get along? Or at least have an argument without insulting people! :roll:

was the mr. rogers show good today? i must've missed it.

RCAChainGang
07-28-2006, 01:44 PM
Wow this thread has brought out two at your throat arguments. :| Wy cant everyone get along? Or at least have an argument without insulting people! :roll:

was the mr. rogers show good today? i must've missed it.

Haha thats exactly wat i mean you just attacked me that is wy sometimes this site you dont want to express your opinion about a player or something cause ur afraid of getting ganged by a bunch guys who think differently. Do u think ur cool by putting me down?

njx9
07-28-2006, 01:46 PM
Wow this thread has brought out two at your throat arguments. :| Wy cant everyone get along? Or at least have an argument without insulting people! :roll:

was the mr. rogers show good today? i must've missed it.

Haha thats exactly wat i mean you just attacked me that is wy sometimes this site you dont want to express your opinion about a player or something cause ur afraid of getting ganged by a bunch guys who think differently. Do u think ur cool by putting me down?

how did i put you down? i asked if you'd seen a show that espouses the same values you do. boy, what an insult. i'm such a prick! wait, was that also a personal attack? :roll:

and really, you have absolutely NO business using the internet if you're THIS scared of someone disagreeing with you.

cunningham06
07-29-2006, 11:46 PM
Wow this thread has brought out two at your throat arguments. :| Wy cant everyone get along? Or at least have an argument without insulting people! :roll:

was the mr. rogers show good today? i must've missed it.

Haha thats exactly wat i mean you just attacked me that is wy sometimes this site you dont want to express your opinion about a player or something cause ur afraid of getting ganged by a bunch guys who think differently. Do u think ur cool by putting me down?

how did i put you down? i asked if you'd seen a show that espouses the same values you do. boy, what an insult. i'm such a prick! wait, was that also a personal attack? :roll:

and really, you have absolutely NO business using the internet if you're THIS scared of someone disagreeing with you.

In what way is mocking him a disagreement? You're just being a complete ass. How can you insult the way I debate, which doesn't really matter to me because I don't respect your opinion, when you just insult people. I am surprised a jerk like you could even become a mod since you aren't supposed to insult people you are talking to. I tried to keep this civil, but you felt the need to make it personal with your uncreative petty insults. You've been waiting for me to back mine up, and since pictures are one of the only ways to do this here you go.

http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/sports/football-pro/indpls_colts/2000_season/img/1001vanderjagt.jpg
Here's your boy Vanderjagt kicking with lean in a different direction from Vinatieri, and since that is the Colts holder, what I said was relevant.

Here's a link to a picture that didn't work where Doug Brien is kicking, and his lean is also in the opposite direction from Vinatieri's
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.newyorkjets.com/images/2004.1/frontpage/content/1850douggie.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/index.php%3Fcontent_id%3D1850%26sections_id%3D&h=278&w=215&sz=21&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=6MaomhvXoG345M:&tbnh=114&tbnw=88&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDoug%2BBrien%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D%26safe%3Doff

Here's another picture of Nate Kaeding practicing with the ball leaning back, NOT FORWARD.
http://www.wizardkicking.com/images/nate%20kaeding%20small.JPG

So here you go, here's some proof. Some kickers like the ball leaning forward, some backward, some straight up. So shut up because you're wrong. Hunter Smith in the past has leaned the ball back for Vanderjagt and will have to lean it forward for Vinatieri. If you don't think that will be a big factor, fine then don't agree with me. Oh and BTW you look like a complete jerk for insulting a rookie who's new to the site.

TCU
07-29-2006, 11:48 PM
alright i got into this topic late but Vanderjact has no distance past 45 yards, he cant even do kickoffs and Vinateri is Adam Vinarteri sp i think you know who has my vote.

M.O.T.H.
07-29-2006, 11:58 PM
alright i got into this topic late but Vanderjact has no distance past 45 yards, he cant even do kickoffs and Vinateri is Adam Vinarteri sp i think you know who has my vote.

Are you kidding? Vanderjagt is actually 14-21 for his career from 50+ with a career long of 54 yards, thats 66.7%. Where as Vinatieri is 8-17 from 50+ for his career , thats 46%.

Also, Vanderjagt will be kicking off for the Cowboys this year and his career kickoff average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri's.

TCU
07-30-2006, 12:06 AM
Are you kidding? Vanderjagt is actually 14-21 for his career from 50+ with a career long of 54 yards, thats 66.7%. Where as Vinatieri is 8-17 from 50+ for his career , thats 46%.

Also, Vanderjagt will be kicking off for the Cowboys this year and his career kickoff average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri's.

im talking about last year, i didnt think Vanderjact was that great last year, the Colts had to sign Jose Cortez to do kickoffs, Mike V cant do them, will het even do them in Dallas because they got the Bowling Green kid from last year on the roster to kick off

, and do i even have to mention this.

yeah i was there and i took this picture myself, i think you know what happened here.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/21001052161.jpg&s=f10

draftguru151
07-30-2006, 12:11 AM
Yea that's not working.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 12:14 AM
Vandy will kickoff for the boys this year. They will NOT keep two kickers according to Bill Parcells.

TCU
07-30-2006, 12:14 AM
Yea that's not working.

i know Putfile is being a ***** i cant upload a picture and take the url and post it.

hopefully this works.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/21001052161.jpg&s=f10

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 12:17 AM
How can you say he wasnt good last year? He was 23-25, 7-8 from 40-49.

He didnt attempt a regular season FG from 50 out last year.

TCU
07-30-2006, 12:36 AM
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/21001052161.jpg&s=f10

did that work?

if so thats why i want Adam Vinateri on my team over Mike V.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 12:47 AM
It works TCU but, i dont like it.

TCU
07-30-2006, 12:51 AM
It works TCU but, i dont like it.

and why is that?

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 12:53 AM
Besides for the obvious reasons, it's a little blurry.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 12:57 AM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but this is basically like a Peyton vs. Tom Brady for who's better, but with kickers. One is better statistically, but has choked in big games. The other hits the clutch kicks that they are supposed to make.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 12:59 AM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but this is basically like a Peyton vs. Tom Brady for who's better, but with kickers. One is better statistically, but has choked in big games. The other hits the clutch kicks that they are supposed to make.

That is actually a really good comparison. I'm happy with Vanderjagt being the Peyton Manning of kickers, though. :D

TCU
07-30-2006, 01:01 AM
Besides for the obvious reasons, it's a little blurry.

im sorry im not a pro at the digital camera, and if you think thats not my picture i took i can try to prove it to you if you want.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 01:12 AM
Besides for the obvious reasons, it's a little blurry.

im sorry im not a pro at the digital camera, and if you think thats not my picture i took i can try to prove it to you if you want.

sorry, that was a bad joke I made. :D The pic is fine TCU, i just dont like the outcome of the kick.

TCU
07-30-2006, 01:16 AM
sorry, that was a bad joke I made. :D The pic is fine TCU, i just dont like the outcome of the kick.

you didnt like the outcome, i was f'in pissed like non other. that picture is actually 1500x1500 and i have an even bigger poster i got made with that picture thats hangs in my room, i use it as motavation for whenever i need it, i dont know why but that picture works.

stephenson86
07-30-2006, 07:08 AM
its more a question of, do you want a kicker who bottles it and has horrible tan lines, or a kicker that will make the kicks and doesnt have horrible tan lines

President
07-30-2006, 08:17 AM
I'd take Vinateri, but that's just me.

RCAChainGang
07-30-2006, 11:00 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but this is basically like a Peyton vs. Tom Brady for who's better, but with kickers. One is better statistically, but has choked in big games. The other hits the clutch kicks that they are supposed to make.

That is a great point! I didn't think of that...

O
07-31-2006, 08:55 AM
72% to 27% and it shouldn't even be that close.

07-31-2006, 09:03 AM
its more a question of, do you want a kicker who bottles it and has horrible tan lines, or a kicker that will make the kicks and doesnt have horrible tan lines

And this i what it really comes down to. Forget everything else so everone needs to answer this to themselfs.....tan lines or no tan lines cause thats all that matters.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 01:43 PM
its more a question of, do you want a kicker who bottles it and has horrible tan lines, or a kicker that will make the kicks and doesnt have horrible tan lines

And this i what it really comes down to. Forget everything else so everone needs to answer this to themselfs.....tan lines or no tan lines cause thats all that matters.

Exactly.

07-31-2006, 01:45 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but this is basically like a Peyton vs. Tom Brady for who's better, but with kickers. One is better statistically, but has choked in big games. The other hits the clutch kicks that they are supposed to make.

except Peyton hasnt actually choked in the playoffs. people just assume that because the colts lose that he choked.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 01:59 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but this is basically like a Peyton vs. Tom Brady for who's better, but with kickers. One is better statistically, but has choked in big games. The other hits the clutch kicks that they are supposed to make.

except Peyton hasnt actually choked in the playoffs. people just assume that because the colts lose that he choked.

He played decently well against the Steelers this year, and I would not qualify that as a choke, but when he went up against the Pats in the playoffs I consider that a choke.

xpostxscript
07-31-2006, 03:41 PM
Vinatieri because he can take pressure. I'd want a kicker that can win you the important games, you know.