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cunningham06
07-27-2006, 01:04 PM
Who's the best cornerback in the NFC North? I got this idea from the topic about the best corner in the NFC East. The top 3 I'd say are Al Harris, Dre Bly, and Antoine Winfield, but who do you think is the best?

07-27-2006, 01:07 PM
Betcha cant guess who I voted for!

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 01:11 PM
Betcha cant guess who I voted for!

Antoine Winfield?

Ho0k Em'
07-27-2006, 01:18 PM
I went with Winfield.

filibuster
07-27-2006, 01:31 PM
see sig

Dillen
07-27-2006, 01:33 PM
I went with Al Harris. I loved him when he was an Eagles. I remember we got a 2nd rounder for him, too bad we used it to trade up for Jerome McDougle.

Harris was a monster in Philly. I always called him "He Flag Me" because he got called for so many pass interference calls in Philly, like Rod Smart's XFL name. I once photoshopped a picture of penalty flags as his dreadlocks but that was a long, long time ago.

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 01:38 PM
I went with Al Harris. I loved him when he was an Eagles. I remember we got a 2nd rounder for him, too bad we used it to trade up for Jerome McDougle.

Harris was a monster in Philly. I always called him "He Flag Me" because he got called for so many pass interference calls in Philly, like Rod Smart's XFL name. I once photoshopped a picture of penalty flags as his dreadlocks but that was a long, long time ago.

I voted for him too, but because of how he played last season. He's also got excellent size at 6'1. Sadly we've let a lot of cool corners slip through our fingers. Al Harris, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent.

TitleTown088
07-27-2006, 01:41 PM
this is a good poll because there are alot of good corners n the NFC north now. Hard to decide, but i had to go with harris.

SuperMcGee
07-27-2006, 01:41 PM
I went with Al Harris. I loved him when he was an Eagles. I remember we got a 2nd rounder for him, too bad we used it to trade up for Jerome McDougle.

Harris was a monster in Philly. I always called him "He Flag Me" because he got called for so many pass interference calls in Philly, like Rod Smart's XFL name. I once photoshopped a picture of penalty flags as his dreadlocks but that was a long, long time ago.

I voted for him too, but because of how he played last season. He's also got excellent size at 6'1. Sadly we've let a lot of cool corners slip through our fingers. Al Harris, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent.

Taylor didnt do too much after he left Philly.
I voted for Winfield

07-27-2006, 01:42 PM
http://www.diehardsteel.com/files/images/alharris_0.jpg

Suprisingly, he got my vote

Dillen
07-27-2006, 01:44 PM
Taylor signed a 3 year contract with Seattle and im pretty sure he was cut after one year. He isnt on a team now. The guy could cover anyone, but he SUCKED at tackling. I mean he was horrible.

Vincent was losing a step and was moved to safety when he signed with Buffalo.


Both of these guys were let go to make room for Lito and Sheldon, so I dont care.

07-27-2006, 01:44 PM
I went with Al Harris. I loved him when he was an Eagles. I remember we got a 2nd rounder for him, too bad we used it to trade up for Jerome McDougle.

Harris was a monster in Philly. I always called him "He Flag Me" because he got called for so many pass interference calls in Philly, like Rod Smart's XFL name. I once photoshopped a picture of penalty flags as his dreadlocks but that was a long, long time ago.
He passed the skill of getting a lot of penalties on to Ahmad Carrol

Go_Eagles77
07-27-2006, 01:47 PM
I went with Al Harris. I loved him when he was an Eagles. I remember we got a 2nd rounder for him, too bad we used it to trade up for Jerome McDougle.

Harris was a monster in Philly. I always called him "He Flag Me" because he got called for so many pass interference calls in Philly, like Rod Smart's XFL name. I once photoshopped a picture of penalty flags as his dreadlocks but that was a long, long time ago.

I voted for him too, but because of how he played last season. He's also got excellent size at 6'1. Sadly we've let a lot of cool corners slip through our fingers. Al Harris, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent.

Yeah, but look who we got now.

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 01:48 PM
Taylor signed a 3 year contract with Seattle and im pretty sure he was cut after one year. He isnt on a team now. The guy could cover anyone, but he SUCKED at tackling. I mean he was horrible.

Vincent was losing a step and was moved to safety when he signed with Buffalo.


Both of these guys were let go to make room for Lito and Sheldon, so I dont care.

I liked them, but we did get rid of them at the right time. Bobby was never nasty enough to be a great tackler, Troy is a decently solid safety, even though their skills were declining I liked them both and was sad to see them go.

Vikes99ej
07-27-2006, 01:52 PM
Hmmm... this is hard for me. Besides Winfield, I'd say Dre Bly.

07-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Al Harris is horrible...

07-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Al Harris is horrible... 85 says he's the 2nd best corner in the league so he's gotta be the best in the norris

07-27-2006, 02:14 PM
Al Harris is horrible... 85 says he's the 2nd best corner in the league so he's gotta be the best in the norrisyou know players say things about other players to be nice right? Just like coaches last year when they would be like the Texans, they would say "that was a great team you just beat out there." Yea thats why they went 2-14.

No way in hell is Harris even in the top 10 CBs in the NFL imo.

njx9
07-27-2006, 02:17 PM
Al Harris is horrible... 85 says he's the 2nd best corner in the league so he's gotta be the best in the norris

and given that chad johnson faced every cornerback in the nfl last year, his opinion is absolutely a GREAT measuring stick to use here.

Smooth Criminal
07-27-2006, 02:19 PM
Winfield got my vote.

thetedginnshow
07-27-2006, 02:19 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.

07-27-2006, 02:22 PM
I'm gonna say harris but it will soon be vasher or bly.

TitleTown088
07-27-2006, 02:23 PM
Al Harris is horrible...

yeah he's just terrible.................care to back that statement up? you can say you don't think he's the best , but to say he's horrible is just stupid.

T-Col
07-27-2006, 02:30 PM
As a Lafayette, Louisiana Lafayette native and Ragin Cajun fan forever, I gotta say Charles Tillman.


However, as a football fan in general, Al Harris.

PACKmanN
07-27-2006, 02:36 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

07-27-2006, 02:36 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

PACKmanN
07-27-2006, 02:42 PM
Al Harris is horrible...He just mad that Harris didnt let his WR get a 100 yards or even a TD.

cunningham06
07-27-2006, 03:34 PM
Al Harris is horrible... 85 says he's the 2nd best corner in the league so he's gotta be the best in the norrisyou know players say things about other players to be nice right? Just like coaches last year when they would be like the Texans, they would say "that was a great team you just beat out there." Yea thats why they went 2-14.

No way in hell is Harris even in the top 10 CBs in the NFL imo.

How many Packers games did you watch last season? He played very well and even shut down some of the receivers he went up against. Am I saying he is a shutdown corner? No, but he is a good corner, and saying he's horrible is ridiculous.

thetedginnshow
07-27-2006, 03:51 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Couldn't be. People always talk about him as a top corner. It'd have to be overrated.

toonsterwu
07-27-2006, 06:11 PM
Out of those 8, the most complete corner right now is Antoine Winfield. Provided he cares and is working hard, the best pure cover guy is probably Fred Smoot, although that's debatable, and I did note that he has to be focused. I think a case could be made for Al Harris against Antoine Winfield, but I still like Winfield better.

Talent wise, I'd rank the 4 teams as: Vikings, Bears, Packers, Lions.
Fit for scheme wise, I'd rank the 4 teams as: Bears, Vikings, Packers, Lions.

But that's just my opinion.

toonsterwu
07-27-2006, 06:12 PM
Interesting voting results. 13-12 for Harris. Hmm ... I have to say, I was tempted on Harris there. I just think that Winfield reads situations better, which is why I gave him the edge. But certainly, I can respect a Harris vote, as I nearly went that route.

P-L
07-27-2006, 06:17 PM
Close poll. I voted for Harris.

07-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.umm.....yea ok? The bucs beat the Packers so i dont know what you're talking about. And for future reference use the quote button.

portermvp84
07-27-2006, 07:07 PM
I said Dre Bly he's a big leader on their defense. He's probably one of the best CB's they have ever had.

duckseason
07-27-2006, 07:15 PM
I think it's a tie in my mind. I think Winfield has more overall talent, but I think Harris is one of the hardest working guys in the league. To go from 6th round pick, to outstanding NFL corner, is really quite amazing. Winfield was expected to be what he is today. Not sure who I'd pick first to play for my team....I think I'd lean towards Winfield though, just based on age.

jpapa4490
07-27-2006, 10:21 PM
i say harris or winfield, but i chose harris. only givin up 1 TD i n the NFL is almost un heard of. and to the buccaneer fan not to be singling u out or anything but back ur talk up when u say sumthin and not just "he's horrible".

The Unseen
07-27-2006, 10:23 PM
Winfield.

ny10804
07-27-2006, 10:29 PM
Alshinard.

PACKmanN
07-27-2006, 10:30 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.umm.....yea ok? The bucs beat the Packers so i dont know what you're talking about. And for future reference use the quote button.Well we lost by one point and if our kicker didnt miss his FG we would have won so i wouldnt be talking.

yourfavestoner
07-27-2006, 10:36 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.

Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

07-27-2006, 10:40 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.umm.....yea ok? The bucs beat the Packers so i dont know what you're talking about. And for future reference use the quote button.Well we lost by one point and if our kicker didnt miss his FG we would have won so i wouldnt be talking.how do you know you wouldve won? The bucs had the ball last and ran the clock out, griese couldve thrown another TD or caddy couldve ran one in if we were trying to score.

draftguru151
07-27-2006, 10:45 PM
Antoine Winfield is the third best CB in the game, and guess what, Al Harris ain't top 2. Winfield easily for me. Harris is a good starter, but Packers fan overrate him.

07-27-2006, 10:47 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.

07-27-2006, 10:53 PM
see sig

I like Vasher as a special teamer, but I'm not sold on him as a CB, not yet atleast

sweetness34
07-27-2006, 11:20 PM
see sig

I like Vasher as a special teamer, but I'm not sold on him as a CB, not yet atleast

Vasher doesn't have great cover skills but he has awesome ball skills and great football intelligence. He rarely got beat (although he went up against #2 recievers most of the time).

Vasher made the Pro Bowl because of his what, 7 or 8 INT's. He's a playmaking CB. He's not a lock down CB like say DeAngelo Hall.

I voted for Vasher because he's a Bear, but I think it's b/w Harris and Winfield. But if I had to choose, I'd go with Winfield.

portermvp84
07-27-2006, 11:24 PM
Vasher is fast he was made for special teams.

The Fat Kid
07-28-2006, 12:26 AM
antoine winfield, i cant think of any corner than defends the run better than him

PACKmanN
07-28-2006, 12:41 AM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.How does that make him overrated? Fans telling you that he a top 5 CB makes him overrated, do u even know what overrated means.

portermvp84
07-28-2006, 12:44 AM
Oh i see we have some people that voted for Charles Woodson.

PACKmanN
07-28-2006, 12:49 AM
Is Keith Smith the Loins number two CB? If so thats really sad. :lol:

portermvp84
07-28-2006, 12:51 AM
Their only good secondary guy is Dre Bly by far.

psub10champs
07-28-2006, 04:06 AM
Woodson has the most talent out of all of them I believe, so I picked him

VikesRule
07-28-2006, 10:49 AM
Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)

jpapa4490
07-28-2006, 10:37 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.

says the redskin fan who thinks sean taylor is a saint.

draftguru151
07-28-2006, 10:39 PM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.

says the redskin fan who thinks sean taylor is a saint.

:roll: Wow that wasn't lame.

dc22
07-28-2006, 10:57 PM
Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)

You can't really judge a CB by stats only, just look at the bengals cb's

draftguru151
07-28-2006, 11:09 PM
Well it's not like he did INTs, it was more of showing how good Winfield is in run support.

portermvp84
07-28-2006, 11:50 PM
Who the hell votes for Charles Woodson I mean come on honestly me real.

bearsfan_51
07-29-2006, 12:09 AM
I went with Winfield. I've though Harris and Bly were overrated for a while.In what way shape or form is Harris overrated? You must mean he underrated.

Because all packers fan swear up and down he is a top 5 corner when he has a hard time cracking a top 15 list.
Give em a break. Now that Favre is washed up they don't have a whole lot of good players to talk about. Harris is probably the best player on their team. Maybe in a few years A.J Hawk can be the guy.

07-29-2006, 07:57 AM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.

07-29-2006, 08:01 AM
Oh i see we have some people that voted for Charles Woodson.

I admit I was one of those few people. I really expected a lot out of him. But from what I have heard, he got burnt by a handful of recievers in the first practice of TC yesterday. Maybe it was because he skipped all of the workouts and was out of shape. I'm not totally down on him yet because there is tons of time before the season starts, but I am quite disappointed.

President
07-29-2006, 08:24 AM
Dre Bly

jackalope
07-29-2006, 11:11 AM
it's close but i voted al haris.

TheChampIsHere
07-29-2006, 02:33 PM
I love Harris and I think hes arguably a top 10 CB and definetely top 15, but Winfield is the best CB in the group. Bly is overratedd and C. Wood could be the best CB in the group if he ever gets his act together.

P-L
07-29-2006, 02:54 PM
Personally, I think Winfield is a tad overrated. The reason he is rated so highly is because he is a good tackling corner. And as someone mentioned, (I don't remember if it was this thread or another) a corner with a lot of tackles isn't always a good thing. Harris plays man-to-man better and gets beat deep a little less than Winfield does.

bearfan
07-29-2006, 02:57 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.

Yes he does, YFS is a genius.

JagsFanWL
07-29-2006, 03:00 PM
I really like Dre Bly, and then Antoine Winfield

yourfavestoner
07-29-2006, 04:09 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.

GB12
07-29-2006, 04:21 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.

2003 he might have been able to stay on one side because he and McKenzie were very close in talent. the past couple years he has followed the #1 WR. If one CB is much better than the other teams will do that. If they are about equal they can stay on just one side.

P-L
07-29-2006, 04:31 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

draftguru151
07-29-2006, 04:45 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

yourfavestoner
07-29-2006, 04:52 PM
Harris, if i recall correctly, only gave up one TD the whole year and shut down CJ85 AANNNNNNDDDDDD STEVE SMITH. You must still be bitter about the packers having the bucs number.

It's impossible to say which corners shut down which receivers unless you watched and made sure he was actually covering that receiver during the game. I can tell you right now through common sense that Harris didn't hut Steve Smith down. Harris is a RCB. Steve Smith is a flanker. They wouldn't even be lined up on the same side of the field.
Personally, I find it really difficult to vote a RCB as one of the best corners in the game. Right corners are dime a dozen. They play a lot of squat and zone coverage and are often involved in double teams with the free safety. Left corners are the premium corners.

And you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Packers don't have, (maybe they will this year with Woodson and Harris), a RCB and a LCB. Harris was always on the #1 reciever. He rotated sides.

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25113

2003: Took over the starting right cornerback job after joining the Packers in an offseason trade with Philadelphia. Played in all 16 games for the sixth straight year, starting all 16 contests for the first time as a pro. Also started both playoff games. Holds an active streak of 96 consecutive games played (105 including postseason) - 16 with Green Bay after 80 with the Eagles. Made 3 interceptions (tied for third on the team) among a career-high 14 passes defensed (also third on club). Recorded 46 tackles (43 solo), tying him for ninth on the team, including 1 forced fumble (his first as a pro). Added 9 stops, 1 interception and 2 pass breakups during the postseason. Also had a pair of return touchdowns over the course of the season, including an interception that instantly became an indelible part of Packers lore. Earned NFL 'Defensive Player of the Week' honors for Wild Card Weekend in recognition of his game-winning inteception return for a touchdown.

2003 he might have been able to stay on one side because he and McKenzie were very close in talent. the past couple years he has followed the #1 WR. If one CB is much better than the other teams will do that. If they are about equal they can stay on just one side.

That's actually not true at all. It's actually very, very rare that a corner will switch sides.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a [i]nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.

PACKmanN
07-29-2006, 04:56 PM
Winfield... and I really don't think its that close... I personally believe that Harris is overrated, and its not because he is a Packer.

These are Winfield's stats since he joined the Vikings (two years). He is not known for his great hands so he doesn't have many interceptions.

2004: 14 games, 85 tackles, 3 INT, 5 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 98 tackles :!: , 4 INT, 4 Pass Deflects

These are Al Harris stats the past two years. I'm only doing recent stats because the poll is about who is the best right now, so what they did 5 years ago doesn't matter.

2004: 16 games, 62 tackles, 1 INT, 19 Pass Deflects
2005: 16 games, 53 tackles, 3 INT, 10 Pass Deflects

Now, you can make a case for Harris because he has more PDFs, but Winfield has the edge in tackles and interceptions. However, I'd still take Winfield because he has the best tackling ability of any corner in the NFL and can get a few picks despite not having very good hands (from his days in Buffalo).

(Stats from NFL.com)
becuase Harris is a cover CB not a INT CB.

yourfavestoner
07-29-2006, 05:00 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

The NFL isn't like Madden, where you can have your number 1 corner follow the number 1 receiver around. It's a tad unrealistic to have your corners know how to play LCB, RCB, and nickleback for every freaking play in the defensive playbook.

Moses
07-29-2006, 05:01 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.

yourfavestoner
07-29-2006, 05:06 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.

I'll repost my explanation in case you missed it. Believe it or not, it actually makes sense.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and [I think, but I'm not 100% sure] Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.

Moses
07-29-2006, 05:07 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.

I'll repost my explanation in case you missed it. Believe it or not, it actually makes sense.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and [I think, but I'm not 100% sure] Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.

That is only certain in some schemes and defensive plays. Most teams will matchup their best cover corner on the opposing teams best wide receiver. Also, #1 receivers are very rarely left in single man-to-man coverage.

yourfavestoner
07-29-2006, 05:18 PM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.

I'll repost my explanation in case you missed it. Believe it or not, it actually makes sense.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and [I think, but I'm not 100% sure] Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.

That is only certain in some schemes and defensive plays. Most teams will matchup their best cover corner on the opposing teams best wide receiver. Also, #1 receivers are very rarely left in single man-to-man coverage.

That's what I said. Most #1 receivers are X receivers. The RCB and FS are usually in double coverage on him.

jkpigskin
07-29-2006, 07:27 PM
not 1 sticks out to me but winfield is my pick due to his toughness and ability...

Komp
07-30-2006, 12:22 AM
Who the hell votes for Charles Woodson I mean come on honestly me real.

Exactly what I was thinking. We'll see how much Packers fans like ol' Turf Toe/Pass Interference Woodson at the end of the year.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 01:29 AM
Well everyone has at least one vote except for Keith Smith, and I'm really not surprised at all.

iripcorners26
07-30-2006, 02:54 AM
My vote goes to the Wood. He is possibly my favorite collegiate player of all time and I am fiercly loyal to him. I think he will turn his game around with a new change of scenery.

Most of those guys are just cover 2 guys who sit in the flat (Bly, Vasher, etc.). I think guys like that are overrated. Sure they have nice ball skills, I will give them that, but I like cover ability and that is what the Wood brings. I think those cover 2 guys are more effective because of their system, not their talent.

bearsfan_51
07-30-2006, 03:27 AM
My vote goes to the Wood. He is possibly my favorite collegiate player of all time and I am fiercly loyal to him. I think he will turn his game around with a new change of scenery.

Most of those guys are just cover 2 guys who sit in the flat (Bly, Vasher, etc.). I think guys like that are overrated. Sure they have nice ball skills, I will give them that, but I like cover ability and that is what the Wood brings. I think those cover 2 guys are more effective because of their system, not their talent.
Performing in a system is talent. Woodson couldn't cut it in the cover 2.

johbur
07-30-2006, 03:28 AM
People, actually watch football before you post crap. Just because he is offically the RCB, doesn't mean he only plays on the right side. Teams put their #1 CB on the other teams' #1 WR all the time. And you would know that by even watching a couple football games.

Not all teams do. The Dolphins don't and the Cowboys don't.

Like I said, the vast majority of NFL teams have their corners set as a LCB and a RCB. The schemes are already intricate and complex enough as it is. If they had to start changing everything around just because the other teams receiver lined up on a different side of the field it would be absolutely ridiculous.

Are you serious? Most teams will matchup their cornerbacks on certain receivers to get the best matchups possible. Otherwise, teams would just keep putting their star receivers against weaker cornerbacks.

I'll repost my explanation in case you missed it. Believe it or not, it actually makes sense.

What teams do is they play their best man-to-man corner at the LCB spot. Almost every NFL team's best corner is the LCB, with a few notable exceptions like Detroit [Dre Bly], Buffalo [Nate Clements], Green Bay [Al Harris], and [I think, but I'm not 100% sure] Seattle [Marcus Trufant]. The LCB is lined up over the opposing team's Z receiver [most teams' #2 receiver] and is given the task of shutting him down in single coverage.

With the LCB shutting the Z down by himself, it allows the strong safety to play the run more agressively. In turn, the RCB and free safety double cover the X receiver [usually the number 1 receiver].

Quite frankly, the demands of playing LCB are far, far more demanding. Al Harris came to the Packers as a nickleback in Philadelphia and took over the RCB spot because Mike McKenzie was firmly entrenched at LCB. Common sense dictates that if Harris was able to play LCB, they wouldn't have spent a bunch of draft picks on highly athletic corners [LCB prototypes]. RCBs are easy to replace. LCBs aren't.

In 2003, Al Harris was the nickelback coming from Phillie and a pair of pro-bowlers in front of him. He had Mckenzie at LCB, who was the starter there and had the experience in GB's system. Then Mike MCKenzie stuck his head far up his rectum and went away, and starting in 2004, Al Harris went against the opposing team's top guy for 90% of the plays. It does effect coverage when the CB has to switch sides, but as Ahmad Carroll had been Mike Sherman's wunderkin and placed as the #2 CB, it had to be done. Look at the Carlolina game from last year. He followed Steve Smith the entire game, and Steve had two catches. Think that the Bears wouldn't have LOVED to have had Harris rather than Vasher in the playoffs?

Al Harris is a press corner, not a cover 2 guy. He is rarely in zone coverage, which allows you to get more tackles and picks as your first job isn't to lock down the opposing receiver. That means you get fewer tackles as the WR you are locking up with gets a head start at blocking you on run downs. It also means that if you are doing your job correctly, you have disrupted the route the WR is running and the QB throws to his next option, thus you do not get the int chance.

Not that Chad Johnson is a guru of the NFL, but he has played against most of the CBs in the league, and he states that Harris is probably the second best CB in the league behind Bailey. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051027/SPT03/510270309/1035

iripcorners26
07-30-2006, 12:28 PM
My vote goes to the Wood. He is possibly my favorite collegiate player of all time and I am fiercly loyal to him. I think he will turn his game around with a new change of scenery.

Most of those guys are just cover 2 guys who sit in the flat (Bly, Vasher, etc.). I think guys like that are overrated. Sure they have nice ball skills, I will give them that, but I like cover ability and that is what the Wood brings. I think those cover 2 guys are more effective because of their system, not their talent.
Performing in a system is talent. Woodson couldn't cut it in the cover 2.

I am not trying to say guys like Vasher aren't talented. I am just saying that I think it is more difficult to play lock down man coverage than it is to just sit in a flat all day. Guys like Bly get all this credit because they get so many picks, but people don't realize how often guys like Bly get burned (by Antonio Bryant).

detknowitall
07-30-2006, 12:32 PM
what no ahmad carrol??? LOL Harris stopped getting flags for PI when Carrol was drafted now he gets em all. Well at least their downgraded flags to illegal contact and not PI.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 12:36 PM
what no ahmad carrol??? LOL Harris stopped getting flags for PI when Carrol was drafted now he gets em all. Well at least their downgraded flags to illegal contact and not PI.

I didn't include nickel backs because if they were the best cornerback in their division they would obviously be starting.

Brodeur
07-30-2006, 12:41 PM
Outside of Dre Bly's issues with Harrington, he is the best CB in the NFC North when he doesn't have a broken hand. Anybody that says any Bears CB needs to be beaten. And Keith Smith shouldn't even be on this poll.

I'd also like to know how Dre Bly is overrated. He's virtually ignored on this site and no one in the league even bothers to mention him despite the fact that he's been very good for the last few years.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 12:45 PM
Outside of Dre Bly's issues with Harrington, he is the best CB in the NFC North when he doesn't have a broken hand. Anybody that says any Bears CB needs to be beaten. And Keith Smith shouldn't even be on this poll.

I'd also like to know how Dre Bly is overrated. He's virtually ignored on this site and no one in the league even bothers to mention him despite the fact that he's been very good for the last few years.

The only reason Keith Smith is on this poll is because I put all the starting CB's, and just to be fair I included him. Dre Bly is a very good cornerback, and has excellent coverage skills. He also allows very few receptions.

portermvp84
07-30-2006, 12:47 PM
It seemed like Dre was injured the whole year, I saw him with a cast on his hand.

Moses
07-30-2006, 01:02 PM
Outside of Dre Bly's issues with Harrington, he is the best CB in the NFC North when he doesn't have a broken hand. Anybody that says any Bears CB needs to be beaten. And Keith Smith shouldn't even be on this poll.

I'd also like to know how Dre Bly is overrated. He's virtually ignored on this site and no one in the league even bothers to mention him despite the fact that he's been very good for the last few years.

I would put Bly behind both Antoine Winfield and Al Harris.

keylime_5
07-30-2006, 01:05 PM
Winfield. this one isn't remotely close.

bearsfan_51
07-30-2006, 01:49 PM
Outside of Dre Bly's issues with Harrington, he is the best CB in the NFC North when he doesn't have a broken hand. Anybody that says any Bears CB needs to be beaten. And Keith Smith shouldn't even be on this poll.

I'd also like to know how Dre Bly is overrated. He's virtually ignored on this site and no one in the league even bothers to mention him despite the fact that he's been very good for the last few years.
Oh whatever. Bly is, at best, on the same level as Vasher. Broken hand or not he gets burnt a LOT, sure he makes up for it with great plays from time to time but I'd take Harris or Winfield over him anyday. It's become somewhat vogue to bash on Vasher as of late but nobody can argue that he's a 2nd year player in the league that only makes plays. Ronde Barber benefits from being in the cover 2 as well, nobody seems to have the same problems with him. In terms of longterm potential the Bears are VASTLY ahead of all other teams in the North at the cornerback position. Deserves to be beaten? Anyone that mentions any Lions player for best anything deserves to be beaten.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 06:24 PM
Outside of Dre Bly's issues with Harrington, he is the best CB in the NFC North when he doesn't have a broken hand. Anybody that says any Bears CB needs to be beaten. And Keith Smith shouldn't even be on this poll.

I'd also like to know how Dre Bly is overrated. He's virtually ignored on this site and no one in the league even bothers to mention him despite the fact that he's been very good for the last few years.
Oh whatever. Bly is, at best, on the same level as Vasher. Broken hand or not he gets burnt a LOT, sure he makes up for it with great plays from time to time but I'd take Harris or Winfield over him anyday. It's become somewhat vogue to bash on Vasher as of late but nobody can argue that he's a 2nd year player in the league that only makes plays. Ronde Barber benefits from being in the cover 2 as well, nobody seems to have the same problems with him. In terms of longterm potential the Bears are VASTLY ahead of all other teams in the North at the cornerback position. Deserves to be beaten? Anyone that mentions any Lions player for best anything deserves to be beaten.

It's not ridiculous to consider one of the Bears CB's the best. I personally don't think they are, but they are both really good and should be at least considered.