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jsagan77
07-30-2006, 08:07 PM
Who has the best Defense in the NFC East? Again a buddy of mine is Arguing. He says Dallas.. Even though they are all top notch I think it will be the Giants this year..

The Fat Kid
07-30-2006, 08:13 PM
dallas

yourfavestoner
07-30-2006, 08:14 PM
This is a tough one. I'll go with Washington. It's going to be interesting to see what they can do with a pass rush now.

PACKmanN
07-30-2006, 08:16 PM
i like the Eagles S/CB but i like Dallas front 7 so i pick both.

cunningham06
07-30-2006, 08:17 PM
This topic was made a while ago. Philly could very well be up there again if the pass rush picks up this year, but Dallas's defense is overrated, so I'd say Washington.

Ho0k Em'
07-30-2006, 08:21 PM
I like Philly.

They brought in Howard and Bunk to help that pass-rush, and help free up space for Jeremiah. We all know about that secondary Lito, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis.

Smooth Criminal
07-30-2006, 08:26 PM
I have to go with Dallas. Their entire defense looks really good this year.

07-30-2006, 08:28 PM
Redskins. very underrated team. superbowl contenders.

ninerfan
07-30-2006, 08:40 PM
Dallas

Jughead10
07-30-2006, 09:49 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 09:52 PM
I'm hoping Thomas "pepper" Johsnon and Stanley could provide some solid depth at DT for the boys. They're going to have to.

moc182
07-30-2006, 10:03 PM
Dallas.

D-Unit
07-30-2006, 10:35 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 10:38 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

yeah, I was gonna comment on that but, decided not to. Now it's understandable if he said depth a NT but, there is nothing wrong with Fergy.

Jughead10
07-30-2006, 10:41 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the Cowboys definately have to worst NT of the bunch.

Ho0k Em'
07-30-2006, 10:43 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the Cowboys definately have to worst NT of the bunch.

Cleveland?

Jughead10
07-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the Cowboys definately have to worst NT of the bunch.

Cleveland?

I'll take the combination of Washington and Oshinowo for depth over what the Cowboys are going to put out there.

PACKmanN
07-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the 49ers definately have to worst NT of the bunch. there i fixed it for u

yourfavestoner
07-30-2006, 10:46 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the Cowboys definately have to worst NT of the bunch.

Cleveland?

Ted Washington?

Jason Ferguson severely underperformed last season, especially considering how much he was paid.

Jughead10
07-30-2006, 10:47 PM
Gotta go with the Redskins here. Their defense will give up the least amount of yardage again this year. Dallas defense while is promising is still too young in my opinion and has a big question at NT, the most imporant position in the 3-4 defense. I think a lot of people are looking past that. It is also how you judge a defense. I think the Redskins will give up the least yardage but I also think the Giants will cause the most turnovers again. But my vote still goes to the Skins.
Since when is Jason Ferguson a scrub?

He's not a scrub, but he isn't so great either. A defense with such high aspirations should have a better player at the key position that makes the whole defense work. Out of the majors teams that run a 3-4 defense, the 49ers definately have to worst NT of the bunch. there i fixed it for u

Thats true I forgot about them. But still, you get the point. The team that will be lucky to win 5 games has a worse NT than the Cowboys.

RCAChainGang
07-30-2006, 10:47 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

yodabear
07-30-2006, 10:51 PM
I voted the Giants cuz I fricking felt like it.

Ho0k Em'
07-30-2006, 10:51 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

draftguru151
07-30-2006, 10:55 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

:shock: :? Ayodele was just signed and he is above average and And Bradie James is really good and young. The only position on their front 7 that is a question is NT.

Jughead10
07-30-2006, 10:59 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

:shock: :? Ayodele was just signed and he is above average and And Bradie James is really good and young. The only position on their front 7 that is a question is NT.

Who is there other DE besides Spears. Canty? I know he is promising and Cowboys fans are high on him but until he really proves it, he is a slight question. Although he could turn out to be great.

Ho0k Em'
07-30-2006, 10:59 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

:shock: :? Ayodele was just signed and he is above average and And Bradie James is really good and young. The only position on their front 7 that is a question is NT.

I don't know about Ayodele in a 3-4, and James is a good tackler but he's not a playmaker.

I didn't say bad I just said iffy

draftguru151
07-30-2006, 11:06 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

:shock: :? Ayodele was just signed and he is above average and And Bradie James is really good and young. The only position on their front 7 that is a question is NT.

Who is there other DE besides Spears. Canty? I know he is promising and Cowboys fans are high on him but until he really proves it, he is a slight question. Although he could turn out to be great.

Canty is a perfect 3-4 DE. He played well last year.

Dallas easily has the best D, Redskins in second.

M.O.T.H.
07-30-2006, 11:09 PM
I love the boys linebackers, they have an excellent mix of size and speed. I dont know why people bad mouth Canty all the time, he did beat Ellis out for the starting job last year and he is a better fit.

Go_Eli
07-30-2006, 11:13 PM
Canty is a perfect 3-4 DE. He played well last year.

Dallas easily has the best D, Redskins in second.

How exactly is the Boys defense "easily" the best in the NFCE? The Redskins have had a better D the past few years, have shown they can replace players and still produce, and are still coached by Gregg Williams.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 12:08 AM
Canty is a perfect 3-4 DE. He played well last year.

Dallas easily has the best D, Redskins in second.

How exactly is the Boys defense "easily" the best in the NFCE? The Redskins have had a better D the past few years, have shown they can replace players and still produce, and are still coached by Gregg Williams.

Dallas has better LBs. Dallas has a better DL. Redskins have better DBs, but not by a lot. The front 7 of Dallas is ridiculous and will be good for a very long time.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 12:25 AM
Canty is a perfect 3-4 DE. He played well last year.

Dallas easily has the best D, Redskins in second.

How exactly is the Boys defense "easily" the best in the NFCE? The Redskins have had a better D the past few years, have shown they can replace players and still produce, and are still coached by Gregg Williams.

Dallas has better LBs. Dallas has a better DL. Redskins have better DBs, but not by a lot. The front 7 of Dallas is ridiculous and will be good for a very long time.

Woa woa woa, hold on. Are you considering Demarcus Ware a defensive lineman? If so then the Cowboys definitely do not have better linebackers than the Redskins. Bradie James is a solid starter, he isn't anything spectacular but he's good. Ayodele has also been a solid player, but a little inconsistant. Bobby Carpenter hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. They are a good LB core, but they are not better than Lemar Marshall, and Marcus Washington. Rocky McIntosh, even though he won't start should be a good future prospect, and whoever they start either Holdman or Clemons, they have the superior linebacking core. This all depends on whether you are comparing Demarcus Ware to their D Ends, in which case I agree they have the better defensive line.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 12:27 AM
Washington is the only LB that is better than any of the Cowboys LBs.

RCAChainGang
07-31-2006, 12:34 AM
Washington is the only LB that is better than any of the Cowboys LBs.

Uh....i agree. Dallas has a better LB core IMO by far but there safties are questionable. Aaron Glenn got burned twice by Santana...Newman is really good but glenn, williams, and davis are not good at covering.

M.O.T.H.
07-31-2006, 12:36 AM
Anthony Henry is the starter and he is excellent in coverage and Glenn is normally very good in coverage as well, he's a solid nickel, you wont find many better.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 12:38 AM
Washington is the only LB that is better than any of the Cowboys LBs.

Lemar Marshall had a breakout season last year, as did Bradie James, but Marshall actually rushed the passer and while he only had .5 fewer sacks, Marshall got more interceptions, which cannot be blamed on a great pass rush because they did not have one last season. So how is Marshall not better than Bradie James?

ncbigbody
07-31-2006, 01:11 AM
The boys, hands down.

comahan
07-31-2006, 01:18 AM
I voted Dallas for reasons stated before this post.

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 07:11 AM
Canty is a perfect 3-4 DE. He played well last year.

Dallas easily has the best D, Redskins in second.

How exactly is the Boys defense "easily" the best in the NFCE? The Redskins have had a better D the past few years, have shown they can replace players and still produce, and are still coached by Gregg Williams.

Dallas has better LBs. Dallas has a better DL. Redskins have better DBs, but not by a lot. The front 7 of Dallas is ridiculous and will be good for a very long time.

Dallas does not have a better DL than the Redskins.

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 11:03 AM
I just saw an article at Foxsports that ranked Dallas' D-Line 22nd in the league as a unit. Everyone else in the NFC East was in the top 10. Although I think they had the Eagles a bit too high.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5819844

I also think the Seahawks are too high and the Falcons too low.

Dillen
07-31-2006, 11:09 AM
On paper the Eagles are probably top 10, but they havent proved it yet. They have four 1st rounders (Kearse, Patterson, Bunkley, McDougle,) one player that was the first pick of the 2nd round (Howard), and a very good 5th rounder (Cole.) They have Walker and Rayburn. Kearse hasn't been even close to what he was in Tennesse. Patterson was the Eagles most consistent lineman last year but didnt really produce well. Bunkley has all the tools but is a rookie. Walker has been bad since his contract extension in 2002, and has had a lot of injuries. Rayburn had 6 sacks in limited playing time in 2004 but was non existant last year. McDougle has looked great in TC but hasnt put anything on the field except crushing Eli Manning. Howard has came off a bad year, and has some injury history. Cole might actually be the only guy without questions about him.

bigbluedefense
07-31-2006, 11:42 AM
I gotta give it to Dallas. Washington's blitz heavy defense is great and all, but you live and die with the blitz. And contrary to what most people believe, i still don't think they'll have a pass rush from their front 4. Carter's days are done. And Archulletta can't cover a ham sandwich, so he's no upgrade either.

Dallas has 2 very good 3-4 DEs in Canty and Spears, and have depth with Ellis at backup. Their NT is great when healhty (Ferguson), and their LB core is sick. Ware and Carpenter are studs, and James will stuf the inside run. They have a great corner trio, and Roy Williams is a great run supporting SS. He's not the best in coverage, but their pass rush should be even better this year, so that will make up for it. Its also their 2nd year in the 3-4, so everyone should be used to it by now.

The Giants will have the best turnover defense, but we'll give up yards too. Our 4-3 Over base will have gaping holes in its pass coverage. So teams will move the ball on us through the air. However we easily have the best pass rush in the division, and becaue of that, we should force the most turnovers. But Dallas is the gonna give up the least yards. Washington only gave up less yards than Dallas last year because Dallas had to adjust to the 3-4. And don't forget, they had rookies playing key spots. This year Ware, Canty and Spears will all be sophomores...big difference. And Carpenter gives them a LB who can cover TEs man up, wihch allows Williams to roam more.

Ward
07-31-2006, 12:01 PM
I was going to vote Washington, but because of all the ignorant comments about Dallas, I voted Dallas.

jsagan77
07-31-2006, 01:26 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 01:27 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

yourfavestoner
07-31-2006, 01:36 PM
Dallas has only one weakness on D...and that is FS

I think they're MLB's are a bit iffy.

:shock: :? Ayodele was just signed and he is above average and And Bradie James is really good and young. The only position on their front 7 that is a question is NT.

Ayodele is nowhere near above average. The guy is as medicore as they come.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 01:37 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

I don't know about them leading in turnovers. Their secondary is awful. Demps is not nearly as good as you think he is, Madison is way past his prime, Mcquarters is a solid at best starter, the only decent person in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

07-31-2006, 01:39 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

I don't know about them leading in turnovers. Their secondary is awful. Demps is not nearly as good as you think he is, Madison is way past his prime, Mcquarters is a solid at best starter, the only decent person in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

I agree, i give the Eagles a slight edge over the redskins in turnovers.

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 01:44 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

I don't know about them leading in turnovers. Their secondary is awful. Demps is not nearly as good as you think he is, Madison is way past his prime, Mcquarters is a solid at best starter, the only decent person in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

Well they led the East in turnovers last year I believe. Even with Will "Stone Hands" Allen on the team. The turnovers aren't caused by the secondary, but by the front 7. We just need guys who can catch a poorly thrown ball, and we have that now. Madison has had high interception totals in his career, he can catch.

cunningham06
07-31-2006, 01:49 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

I don't know about them leading in turnovers. Their secondary is awful. Demps is not nearly as good as you think he is, Madison is way past his prime, Mcquarters is a solid at best starter, the only decent person in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

Well they led the East in turnovers last year I believe. Even with Will "Stone Hands" Allen on the team. The turnovers aren't caused by the secondary, but by the front 7. We just need guys who can catch a poorly thrown ball, and we have that now. Madison has had high interception totals in his career, he can catch.

Yes, but last year the Eagles pass rush disappeared completely, and it usually is very good. That and the excellent secondary they have makes me think they will lead in turnovers. Not in yardage though because our LB's aren't the greatest.

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 01:53 PM
How can people count out the Giants...? Strahan, OSi, Pierce, Arrington, Madison, Mcquarters, Demps, Joseph, Emmons will be better as well. They are going to have an ureal D this year.. That pass rush with those CB's will be Pic city for them..

It all depends how you rank a defense. I said before I think the Redskins will give up the least amount of yardage. But I think the Giants will cause the most turnovers. I guess the real key is who will give up the least points and I'm not ready to pick what team that will be.

I don't know about them leading in turnovers. Their secondary is awful. Demps is not nearly as good as you think he is, Madison is way past his prime, Mcquarters is a solid at best starter, the only decent person in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

Well they led the East in turnovers last year I believe. Even with Will "Stone Hands" Allen on the team. The turnovers aren't caused by the secondary, but by the front 7. We just need guys who can catch a poorly thrown ball, and we have that now. Madison has had high interception totals in his career, he can catch.

Yes, but last year the Eagles pass rush disappeared completely, and it usually is very good. That and the excellent secondary they have makes me think they will lead in turnovers. Not in yardage though because our LB's aren't the greatest.

Maybe in interceptions the Eagles might lead, but in total turnovers I still have to go with the Giants, because of our better pass rush and better LBs. We force a lot of fumbles on top of our picks.

DMWSackMachine
07-31-2006, 02:36 PM
This one isn't even close, at least on the personnel front. Dallas is by far and away the best in terms of players. Washington has been living off of the brilliance of Gregg Williams for the last couple of years. And let's get real here. Last year Dallas had basically as good a defense as the Skins, even though we were starting 3 rookies, 1 first year starter, plus dealing with a career ending injury to our defensive leader (Dat Nguyen), AND transitioning to a new defensive scheme which non of our players had experience in and our two best front 7 players were ill-suited for.

All of that, and yet we were a mere 3ypg away from Washington in defensive rankings with 2 more sacks and 2 less TOs.

As this poll demonstrates, at this point in time, there is every reason to beleive that Dallas will be the best in the division.

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 02:45 PM
This one isn't even close, at least on the personnel front. Dallas is by far and away the best in terms of players. Washington has been living off of the brilliance of Gregg Williams for the last couple of years. And let's get real here. Last year Dallas had basically as good a defense as the Skins, even though we were starting 3 rookies, 1 first year starter, plus dealing with a career ending injury to our defensive leader (Dat Nguyen), AND transitioning to a new defensive scheme which non of our players had experience in and our two best front 7 players were ill-suited for.

All of that, and yet we were a mere 3ypg away from Washington in defensive rankings with 2 more sacks and 2 less TOs.

As this poll demonstrates, at this point in time, there is every reason to beleive that Dallas will be the best in the division.

I don't know about having the best personnel. They are still starting 3 1st year players and a rookie again. They are very promising but still young. Not to mention a player who in my opinion can't replace Nguyen and is transitioning to a new scheme. And I don't trust Jason Ferguson at NT. The talent on defense across the NFC East is extremely close.

Texico From Mexico
07-31-2006, 04:01 PM
Silly Poll....its not even a horse race. The Boys have this hands down.

President
07-31-2006, 04:24 PM
I think moc had it right when he said, we will cause the most turnovers, but the Skins will give up the least yardage.


Texico from Mecico, you are offically the biggest homer on the board. Just to tell you.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.

moc182
07-31-2006, 04:34 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 04:46 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

moc182
07-31-2006, 04:51 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 04:57 PM
Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?

bigbluedefense
07-31-2006, 05:01 PM
The one thing that really makes the Giants no 2. on this list imo is the fact that our secondary is not that talented coupled with the fact that Tim Lewis's defensive schemes makes for horrible pass coverage. We have the best DE quad in the game (yup, quad, we got Kiwi and Tuck on the bench who both could start for some teams), we have a slowly improving UT in Joseph, great MIKE in Pierce and solid OLB core in Arrington and Emmons. We have tons of depth at LB now too. The NT is a question that will be answered during Preseason. We honestly don't know how good our NT is until we see them play. Everyone is buzzing about Jonas Seawright, he's been apparently "unblockable" but i gotta see it to believe it. Coffield at the very least will be a Clancy for us. Our DT duo isn't as bad as people think. Joseph should have a breakout year this year if he stays healthy, and hopefully Seawright becomes the NT everyone is proclaiming him to be.

But DMWSackmachine put it the best. Dallas has the best personell. Look what they did last year despite all the hurdles. And this year with Carpenter, theyll even be better. Ware is gonna have a big second year, and with that ball-control offense that Parcells will run, their defense won't be on the field for long periods of time. I might have some bias because I personally favor the 3-4 alignment, but I think its Dallas without question at least at this point in the year, depending on how the Giants secondary and interior line perform, it could be the Giants but right now its easily Dallas.

moc182
07-31-2006, 05:01 PM
Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?


Yea, I think the plan is to have Arrington standing up next to Strahan more or less. I'd probably prefer him to play the WILL, but it will only aid the pass rush, which is obviously our strength.



5k

bigbluedefense
07-31-2006, 05:05 PM
Aren't you guys running like a 4-3 over or something like that?


Yea, I think the plan is to have Arrington standing up next to Strahan more or less. I'd probably prefer him to play the WILL, but it will only aid the pass rush, which is obviously our strength.



5k

We're pretty much using Arrington as a 3-4 Will in a 4-3 alignment. Expect alot of zone blitzes with him and Strahan, and alot of blitzes with him period. Its almost like we're gonna have 5 down linemen. He will either rush the passer or drop into a flat zone. Thats gonna put more pressure on Wilson to cover the TE, and the 2 other LBs to defend the intermediate. And by doing that, we will ultimately depend on either Madison or Webster to defend a WR man up with no safety help, and rely on Demps to provide safety help for the deep ball. Like I said, Tim Lewis's scheme will make for poor pass coverage.

DMWSackMachine
07-31-2006, 05:05 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.

moc182
07-31-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.


:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.

07-31-2006, 05:09 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.


:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.

no that makes you an idiot

moc182
07-31-2006, 05:11 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.


:roll: I'm a homer that thinks the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl...moron.

no that makes you an idiot


:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.

bigbluedefense
07-31-2006, 05:12 PM
I'm just gonna say the Giants have the worst in the division. The other 3 are top notch, the Giants, well I'm just gonna say they aren't top notch.


Yea they are. No one in the league is going to be able to pressure the QB like the Giants, and that's the name of the game. Two of the best run stopping ends in the league, and one of the best run stopping mikes in the league. Their secondary is mediocre, but the pass rush will more than neutralize that weak spot.

I love the pass rush. Easily a top DE duo. LaVar is great. Pierce is great. But Joseph is sub par and who is starting at NT? Probably someone I've never heard of. Madison ain't what he used to be. RW ain't what he used to be. Webster is average. Demps is average. Wilson is good, and is the best starter in your secondary. Who is the SLB? Torbor, Griesen. Both are sub par. Pass rush better be amazing every single play or you guys will get torched. The are in the middle of the league overall. The other teams are top 10/12.

Joseph is fine. NT wil either be Jonas Seawright, Barry Cofield, orFred Robbins but Tuck will see plenty of time on passing downs. My point about the secondary was although it is only average, it won't be a huge problem because of the pass rush. I actually think gibril is really overrated btw. Arrington is playing the strongside, Emmons on the weak, and Emmons is an excellent, excellent player. They're a top 10 D.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I believe the term for this is, uh....um.....what is that word....oh, yeah homerism. Emmons isn't even average anymore. And no matter how you spin it, the fact remains that you are returning a defense that was middle of the league last year, with a secondary that is seriously in flux, and a LB core that was even weaker last year which you will be relying upon a recently cut former Pro Bowler to bolster, along with an aging star at defensive end.

Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some nice pieces, but the Giants easily have the worst D in the division this year (which the poll clearly bears out), and have a stunning amount of weak spots. Jughead wants to bag on our NT position as being so weak, but you guys have probably the worst DTs in the NFC, if not the whole NFL. Your corners suck ass, your SOLB is weak and your SS will have to show something he never showed in Baltimore if he's going to be anything more than average. You can't just a line up a couple of dynamic pass rushers and a solid MLB and say that your defense is going to be a top unit. You have to have good players. Hell, you would think that it's rocket science.

Now while I agree with you that Dallas has the best defense, I disagree with you on how you rated the Giants defense. Our DTs aren't nearly as bad as people think. The Giants had the 12th ranked rush defense in the league with 4th stringers playing in our last 4-5 games at LB. Thats not bad. Joseph is better than people think, he just has health issues, and our NT position is overrated. I agree with you on Emmons, he's done. But we have solid depth to replace him. Nothing jaw dropping, but OLBs are somewhat overrated in the 4-3 anyway.

Yes our secondary isn't that good. Nor is our pass coverage schemes. But our pass rush will be dynamic, arguably the best in the league. And a good pass rush hides alot of weaknesses in the secondary. The SB champs had a joke secondary. The patriots secondary is a joke. That didn't stop those defenses from being great.

DMWSackMachine
07-31-2006, 05:14 PM
The one thing that really makes the Giants no 2. on this list imo is the fact that our secondary is not that talented coupled with the fact that Tim Lewis's defensive schemes makes for horrible pass coverage. We have the best DE quad in the game (yup, quad, we got Kiwi and Tuck on the bench who both could start for some teams), we have a slowly improving UT in Joseph, great MIKE in Pierce and solid OLB core in Arrington and Emmons. We have tons of depth at LB now too. The NT is a question that will be answered during Preseason. We honestly don't know how good our NT is until we see them play. Everyone is buzzing about Jonas Seawright, he's been apparently "unblockable" but i gotta see it to believe it. Coffield at the very least will be a Clancy for us. Our DT duo isn't as bad as people think. Joseph should have a breakout year this year if he stays healthy, and hopefully Seawright becomes the NT everyone is proclaiming him to be.

But DMWSackmachine put it the best. Dallas has the best personell. Look what they did last year despite all the hurdles. And this year with Carpenter, theyll even be better. Ware is gonna have a big second year, and with that ball-control offense that Parcells will run, their defense won't be on the field for long periods of time. I might have some bias because I personally favor the 3-4 alignment, but I think its Dallas without question at least at this point in the year, depending on how the Giants secondary and interior line perform, it could be the Giants but right now its easily Dallas.

I can live with that, as opposed to the blatant homerism that the other guys were spewing before. You make some good points, especially with your DE depth (though Kiwi hasn't done anything to prove his value yet, and most considered him a mid 2nd prospect at best by draft day, but I digress). I think you are over valuing Joseph. He "should have a breakout year this year" has been the mantra every year since he came in as a first rounder, and he hasn't ever been better than average - and has been horrible at other times. Also, I appreciate the reports coming from your camp concerning Seawright, but it doesn't mean much until it at least shows up in preseason. Most people don't go from practice squad to starting lineup in one year.

Besides that, I disagree with some stuff you said, but they are certainly at least debatable, as opposed to being patently untrue like that other guy. I would still say that NY is last in the division on defense, although it will be interesting to watch Osi develop and LaVar try to fit in.

07-31-2006, 05:15 PM
1. Redskins
2. Cowboys
3. Giants
4. Eagles

DMWSackMachine
07-31-2006, 05:17 PM
:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.

Says the guy with a quote from Titanic in his sig.


:lol: :twisted:

07-31-2006, 05:21 PM
:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.

i was kidding and those curses are real

Jughead10
07-31-2006, 05:24 PM
I do point out the problem the Cowobys have at NT. The Giants have one as well. The difference is our defensive schemes. The NT in a 3-4 is so much more critical than it is in a 4-3.

I think people are really looking past the difference Arrington will make. Did you see what happened when the Redskins let him loose in the playoffs. Our secondary is a problem. However it was worse last year, and we still led the NFC East in turnovers despite it. Our pass rush will probably only improve with Tuck maturing and Kiwi being added. Not to mention Arrington. It will be hard to evaluate or defense, because it will probably be third or last in yards given up but lead in turnovers. Bend don't break. Tim Lewis' model.

moc182
07-31-2006, 05:24 PM
:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.

Says the guy with a quote from Titanic in his sig.


:lol: :twisted:


It's from the Office actually.

President
07-31-2006, 05:41 PM
:roll: Says the guy who thinks the cardinals are going to win their division because of 2 curses.

Says the guy with a quote from Titanic in his sig.


:lol: :twisted:
Says the guy who thinks Julius Jones is better then Barber :lol:

'backer
07-31-2006, 06:45 PM
The Cowboys have the best roster from top to bottom.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Newman may be the top corner in the game right now, and he is certainly better than anything else the NFC East has to offer. Anthony Henry was amazing before he got injured last year. But the cowboys not only have the best duo of corners, they have four very capable corners. The other two being the vet, Glenn and the up-and-coming Reeves.

Roy Williams is still one of the best safties in the business, and with Watkins and Berialt impressing in training camp, there should be someone more gifted and more competent than Davis in obvious passing situations at FS. Watkins has some serious height, range, smarts, and leaping ability, which should translate into an excellent deep-zone defender for the Cowboys.

The redskins also have two very good corners in Springs and Rogers. The probowl corners that the Eagles had two years ago looked like anything but probowl performers last year, and I can't remember the last impressive performance by the Giants' CB's.

Both the Cowboys and the Redskins will have excellent LB corps, but I think that Dallas will have more-than capable players backing up the starters at every positions.

The line will be much more experienced with Spears, Ratliff, and Canty entering their second year, all of which are very good ends. Then add in the raw but extremely gifted Hatcher into the equation, and it looks like the Coyboys will have the best DE rotation in the NFL outside of the Giants, who are simply stacked at DE.

The division as a whole is rather weak at the DT spot, and Dallas is no exception. Fergy is solid but unspectacular,and I'm betting that neither Thomas Johnson or Montavious Stanley will match the lost productuion of Glover. But if I had the chance to swap DT's with any other team in the division, I don't think I would do it.

Lastly, Dallas has the big advantage of being the single 3-4 defense in the division. Not only that, but they play a much more straight up style of football which is markedly different from the elaborate blitzing defenses that make up the rest of the division.

On paper, Dallas should definitely get the nod.

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 07:33 PM
The Cowboys have the best roster from top to bottom.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Newman may be the top corner in the game right now, and he is certainly better than anything else the NFC East has to offer.

:shock: Baskalonis?