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View Full Version : Dontrelle Willis or Carlos Zambrano?


nvot9
07-31-2006, 08:57 AM
I realize there is a baseball discussion, but this is a big topic and I'm including a poll, so I think it deserves it's own thread for atleast a half a day.

That being said, what pitcher would you rather have? Both are extremely young, Willis 24 and Zambrano being 25. They both are very big pitchers who can hit. They both have very fast fastballs, although Zambrano's gains a bit more velocity. They both put movement on nearly every pitch and are very "interesting" on the mound. That being said, what pitcher would you rather have?

I'm going to say Zambrano, only because he has been consistently dominant nearly his entire career, whereas Dontrelle has really only had 1 absolute dominant year and 1 more above average 1 his rookie year, where as 2004, and now, 2006, he has struggled massively. Granted, those years, he coincidently had a pretty bad team, however,Carlos Zambrano hasn't exactly had gem teams in his cub career.

Don Vito
07-31-2006, 09:13 AM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

ny10804
07-31-2006, 09:15 AM
http://www.wildcardsports.com/images/Zambrano.jpg

It's a shame he has to play for the Cubs.

nvot9
07-31-2006, 09:57 AM
Anyone else?

And also, I don't think it's fair to vote for Dontrelle because he plays on a horrible team, because the Cubs are less than spectacular themselves...

jetvilma51
07-31-2006, 10:01 AM
i would take dontrell

Eaglez.Fan
07-31-2006, 10:01 AM
http://www.freewebs.com/iaan/dontrelle%20willis.jpg

07-31-2006, 10:04 AM
http://www.wildcardsports.com/images/Zambrano.jpg

It's a shame he has to play for the Cubs.

He just has better stuff and is a much better pitcher and is finally putting it all together. I always knew he was going to be the Ace of that rotation.

Plus he hass a CY Young which is something the D-Train doesn't have.

Eaglez.Fan
07-31-2006, 10:07 AM
And the D-Train can hit

07-31-2006, 10:10 AM
And the D-Train can hit

Carlos has 4 HR leads all pitchers

Deeerrrr

art vandelay
07-31-2006, 10:13 AM
Zambrano - he has filthy stuff

07-31-2006, 10:16 AM
Anyone else?

And also, I don't think it's fair to vote for Dontrelle because he plays on a horrible team, because the Cubs are less than spectacular themselves...

I think the Marlins have a better record than the Cubs by the way. So that should not have anything to do with an argument.

YAYareaRB
07-31-2006, 10:37 AM
The D-Train gets my vote!

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 10:41 AM
The D-train. When he is on, he us unhitable. He never has good back to back seasons though. Next year if the Marlins actually compete, he will be dominant.

slightlyaraiderfan
07-31-2006, 11:02 AM
Zambrano, his stuff is more intimidating.

Shane P. Hallam
07-31-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm going with Zambrano. He can be flat out dominant and always gives a solid outing. I feel like Willis is a half of the year player than just fails. Not to mention the World Baseball Classic...

Brodeur
07-31-2006, 11:14 AM
Personally, I'd say Zambrano. While Willis is a great pitcher when he wants to be, he isn't consistent enough. He was top notch last season, but he hasn't shown the same dominance this season. The last few years, Zambrano has been consistently great and consistence is the key.

nvot9
07-31-2006, 11:23 AM
Ok, well I was using this for a draft, and I think I'm going to go with Zambrano. This was my gut and initial decision, but I didn't want to make the wrong choice, so I wanted to check. Thanks for your opinoins etc. it honestly helped!

danman253
07-31-2006, 11:45 AM
Carlos. Dontrelle is a great young picther and won 22 last season, but if you are 12-3 with the cubs you are dominant.

07-31-2006, 11:59 AM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

cuz zambrano is on a powerhouse team :roll:

VoteLynnSwan
07-31-2006, 12:06 PM
http://www.wildcardsports.com/images/Zambrano.jpg

It's a shame he has to play for the Cubs.

He just has better stuff and is a much better pitcher and is finally putting it all together. I always knew he was going to be the Ace of that rotation.

Plus he hass a CY Young which is something the D-Train doesn't have.

um.... Unless you're talking about this year... Carlos doesn't have a Cy Young.

Funny that both these guys are Cubs products. I wish we would've never traded Willis, although who knows if he'd have been nearly as good.

moc182
07-31-2006, 12:07 PM
I'd take Carlos.

Don Vito
07-31-2006, 12:10 PM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

cuz zambrano is on a powerhouse team :roll:

The Marlins have thrived on pitching for many years. So when Dontrelle is on the mound, he has the game essentially on his shoulders.


Up until this year, the cubs have been pretty good on offense. So if Zambrano were to give up 5 runs, the game would not be over.

07-31-2006, 12:13 PM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

cuz zambrano is on a powerhouse team :roll:

The Marlins have thrived on pitching for many years. So when Dontrelle is on the mound, he has the game essentially on his shoulders.


Up until this year, the cubs have been pretty good on offense. So if Zambrano were to give up 5 runs, the game would not be over.

that makes your statement completely pointless. Zambrano has done better than Willis this year even with a terrible offense

VoteLynnSwan
07-31-2006, 12:15 PM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

cuz zambrano is on a powerhouse team :roll:

The Marlins have thrived on pitching for many years. So when Dontrelle is on the mound, he has the game essentially on his shoulders.


Up until this year, the cubs have been pretty good on offense. So if Zambrano were to give up 5 runs, the game would not be over.

that makes your statement completely pointless. Zambrano has done better than Willis this year even with a terrible offense

you're wrong... what makes the statement pointless is that it is absolutely false.

Don Vito
07-31-2006, 12:21 PM
If I had to pick one for my team it would be Dontrelle. That is all I will say.

danman253
07-31-2006, 12:21 PM
Dontrelle. If he were on a powerhouse team he would be unbelievable.

cuz zambrano is on a powerhouse team :roll:

The Marlins have thrived on pitching for many years. So when Dontrelle is on the mound, he has the game essentially on his shoulders.


Up until this year, the cubs have been pretty good on offense. So if Zambrano were to give up 5 runs, the game would not be over.

What are you talking about?

Finsfan79
07-31-2006, 12:25 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he is one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

07-31-2006, 12:26 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you gay?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.

slightlyaraiderfan
07-31-2006, 12:27 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you cool?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.
He means marketing wise..

07-31-2006, 12:29 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you cool?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.
He means marketing wise..

i was just kidding

M.O.T.H.
07-31-2006, 12:29 PM
I would take Willis just because, he is one of my favs but, he is not as consistant as Zambrano.

Finsfan79
07-31-2006, 12:33 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you cool?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.
He means marketing wise..

thank you, yes I did.

Show average baseball fans a picture of Willis and Zambrano. I bet 95% will know Willis. Less will Zambrano.

dont get me wrong, Zambrano is the best pitcher on the cubs, been saying that for a few years now. But still, I would rather have willis, better all around pitcher if you ask me.

07-31-2006, 12:34 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you cool?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.
He means marketing wise..

thank you, yes I did.

Show average baseball fans a picture of Willis and Zambrano. I bet 95% will know Willis. Less will Zambrano.

dont get me wrong, Zambrano is the best pitcher on the cubs, been saying that for a few years now. But still, I would rather have willis, better all around pitcher if you ask me.

i was kidding about the g a y thing but explain how dontrelle is a better pitcher

Brodeur
07-31-2006, 12:39 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he is one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

He didn't win a Cy Young, Chris Carpenter won it.

Finsfan79
07-31-2006, 12:47 PM
The d-train is pitching before the worst rated defense in the league.

He has already posted 22 wins, and won a Cy Young. He has already won a World Series. He pitches on a team with a payroll 1/8 that of the Cubs.


I will take Willis also because from a marketing sense he has one of the best faces in the majors. The guy has that aura and love of the game you can market. Black, Spanish, White, Green, Grey, everyone loves guys with personality like that.

He is just one of those kids it is impossible to hate.

are you cool?

anway Zambrano is more experienced, has a better career ERA and is an all around better pitcher than Dontrelle.
He means marketing wise..

thank you, yes I did.

Show average baseball fans a picture of Willis and Zambrano. I bet 95% will know Willis. Less will Zambrano.

dont get me wrong, Zambrano is the best pitcher on the cubs, been saying that for a few years now. But still, I would rather have willis, better all around pitcher if you ask me.

i was kidding about the g a y thing but explain how dontrelle is a better pitcher

He has better ranger then any other pitcher around. According to most League GM's he screws up hitters the next few games often because of his release points and deception upon the ball. Yes, he doesnt throw as fast (only on average 93-91 range instead of 95-93 for zambrano), but speed isnt everything. His slider is much better and his fastball's movement is very sick.

He is younger, and when he has a league average defense (marlins defense was ranked in the lower half last year, unlike dead last here), He will see most of the balls upon the ground and easily turned for doubleplays.

His numbers last year, upon a .500 ball club with lower half of the league defense were.

2.63 era 1.13 whip 170 Ks, 236.1 innings pitched, 22-10

First black pitcher in 20+ years to break 20 wins

He also has the fact he has never been injured in his career, not even once missing a start (knock on wood), unlike Zambrano whom has missed some games each year so far of his career.

He has been the leader of his ball club since he came up in 2003 and really it was him that was the catalyst to start the winning streak and lead them to win the 2003 WS

I think overall, I would take him before Zambrano. But I would take Zambrano over most other pitchers in the game from Prior, Wood, Schilling, Randy, Felix Hernandez, etc.

07-31-2006, 12:55 PM
You said he was a better overall pitcher so age has nothing to do with it. You can't just look at one year and say those stats show that a pitcher is better. Zambrano has a better career ERA and is averaging 30 more strikeouts per season than Willis. You realize that when a player makes an error that it doesnt count against the pitchers era right?

thetedginnshow
07-31-2006, 01:19 PM
Haha. Well I know who you're taking next. :lol:

Tobzilla
07-31-2006, 01:20 PM
Both are great and almost even in my book, but I would go with Dontrelle because he's left handed.

Finsfan79
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
You said he was a better overall pitcher so age has nothing to do with it. You can't just look at one year and say those stats show that a pitcher is better. Zambrano has a better career ERA and is averaging 30 more strikeouts per season than Willis. You realize that when a player makes an error that it doesnt count against the pitchers era right?

not all poor defense ranks into errors dude. That is why era is a flawed system. Alot of plays that are "bad plays" arent counted as errors. Or balls hat should be gotten to but arent, which are counted as errors. It all factors into range and fielding percentages. But if you must before this year Willis had a better career ERA.

As for Strike Outs, Dontrelle isnt a strike out pitcher, if you notice I said he is a groundball pitcher that gets strike outs as well. He isnt going to give you 1 for 1 K/IP ratio. that is what becket, penny, burnett were for.

He is a different type of pitcher then that.

thetedginnshow
07-31-2006, 01:31 PM
Oh btw, I'd probably take Zambrano, all this stuff aside.

P-L
07-31-2006, 02:41 PM
This is real close. If Willis was a righty I'd say Zambrano by far. But him being a lefty pushes his value up. Still, I like Zambrano a little more.

psub10champs
07-31-2006, 02:47 PM
Both are outstanding, but I'd take willis. He hasn't shown it as much this year, but in previous years, he's let his emotions run him wild. Both are great pitchers

VoteLynnSwan
07-31-2006, 03:08 PM
Both are outstanding, but I'd take willis. He hasn't shown it as much this year, but in previous years, he's let his emotions run him wild. Both are great pitchers

you're just upset about carlos owning you this past weekend.

theshark08
07-31-2006, 03:13 PM
Zambrano- He's a horse, has great stuff, and the only reason he doesn't get as much recognition as he should is because he is on one of the worst teams in a while.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Willis, but I just like Zambrano more.

xpostxscript
07-31-2006, 03:40 PM
Both are good but i gotta go with Dontrell Willis. He's a stud. Even though he has no run support with his team he still managed to try his best to put this team behind his shoulder

draftguru151
07-31-2006, 04:12 PM
All I have to say is if if we don't get Willis in '03 we don't win the world series. Him not having Castillo and Gonzo behind him is killing him.

SuperMcGee
07-31-2006, 04:12 PM
wow dead even.
I love the Marlins but had to take Zambrano here

The Unseen
07-31-2006, 04:27 PM
Willis is having a bad year, but he has a history Zambrano hasn't. The definitive answer for this question comes next season.

One thing is for sure: they both are great hitters as pitchers.

Finsfan79
08-01-2006, 01:26 PM
willis also is getting the top 5 lowest run support in the majors btw

Jensen
08-01-2006, 01:29 PM
Dontrelle.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 08:48 PM
Zambrano is better by a bunch. Wilis is a good pitcher but Zambrano is an ace.

Tobzilla
08-01-2006, 08:50 PM
Both are Aces. Give me a valid argument why dontrelle isnt an ace.

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:04 PM
I think stuff wise both are tops yet Dontrelle's delivery worries me still.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:20 PM
Both are Aces. Give me a valid argument why dontrelle isnt an ace.

go to baseballprospectus.com, Joel Sheehan's Prospectus today from a couple days ago puts forth a good argument why he isn't. If you don't have BP Premium I'll PM you the article because I'm pretty sure I can't post it. (Though you should have BP Premium, a must have for any baseball fan)

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Both are Aces. Give me a valid argument why dontrelle isnt an ace.

go to baseballprospectus.com, Joel Sheehan's Prospectus today from a couple days ago puts forth a good argument why he isn't. If you don't have BP Premium I'll PM you the article because I'm pretty sure I can't post it. (Though you should have BP Premium, a must have for any baseball fan)

if you don't mind i would love to see that article.

BTW Slayer is an awesome band. I'm more of an indy fan but i can appreciate some quality metal.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:28 PM
I'm all over it Raoul.

thetedginnshow
08-01-2006, 09:29 PM
I'm all over it Raoul.

If you don't mind, could I see it as well?

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:33 PM
I'm all over it Raoul.

If you don't mind, could I see it as well?

absolutely

P-L
08-01-2006, 09:34 PM
I'll take a look.

08-01-2006, 09:34 PM
I hate Zambrano. Hate him with a passion. But you're a damn fool if you take Willis over a horse like Carlos.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:37 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:39 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

I just noticed your from cleveland to. Where abouts? I'm living downtown.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:41 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

I just noticed your from cleveland to. Where abouts? I'm living downtown.

I live in th 'burbs. I live in Aurora. Though I'm going back to school in Ada soon

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:43 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

I just noticed your from cleveland to. Where abouts? I'm living downtown.

I live in th 'burbs. I live in Aurora. Though I'm going back to school in Ada soon

I spent part of my youth in shaker heights and around gates mill.

thetedginnshow
08-01-2006, 09:45 PM
Huh. That was pretty interesting.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:45 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

I just noticed your from cleveland to. Where abouts? I'm living downtown.

I live in th 'burbs. I live in Aurora. Though I'm going back to school in Ada soon

I spent part of my youth in shaker heights and around gates mill.

cool

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:52 PM
I'll take a look.

no, you're a Michigan fan. I will not let you see it.

I just noticed your from cleveland to. Where abouts? I'm living downtown.

I live in th 'burbs. I live in Aurora. Though I'm going back to school in Ada soon

I spent part of my youth in shaker heights and around gates mill.

cool

Not really. Everyone in shaker heights thought they were great because their parents were rich.

bigrick0016
08-01-2006, 09:54 PM
Aurora's the same way

Raoul Duke
08-01-2006, 09:56 PM
Aurora's the same way

Makes me happy i live in the city right now.

johnnyjonesmich
08-02-2006, 09:55 AM
I would rather have Joel Zumaya.

This kid is those two put together.

and I am happy with Verlander too!

Finsfan79
08-02-2006, 12:46 PM
I would rather have Joel Zumaya.

This kid is those two put together.

and I am happy with Verlander too!

how about zumaya pitch in the WS, win a RoY, win 22 games to lead the majors, pitch for more then 2 years without an injury (prone problems he has), then lets talk?

Paranoidmoonduck
08-02-2006, 01:06 PM
Zambrano has been worlds more consistent than Willis while being a total workhorse. I love Willis, but his mechanics have a tendency of unraveling on their own and I'm not quite sure he can survive on his fastball forever.

I take Zambrano by a small margin.

P-L
08-02-2006, 01:16 PM
I would rather have Joel Zumaya.

This kid is those two put together.

and I am happy with Verlander too!

how about zumaya pitch in the WS, win a RoY, win 22 games to lead the majors, pitch for more then 2 years without an injury (prone problems he has), then lets talk?

How about Dontrelle start a game in the WS or pitch at least 4 innings before we bring up the WS argument?

ATLDirtyBirds
08-02-2006, 01:22 PM
They are both awesome, and would love either one on the Mets, but I would take Carlos Zambrano, he is averaging a K per inning and averages about 6 2/3 innings per start. He also has deadly stuff, if he could just get it under control, he would definately be the top pitcher in baseball.

Finsfan79
08-02-2006, 01:31 PM
I would rather have Joel Zumaya.

This kid is those two put together.

and I am happy with Verlander too!

how about zumaya pitch in the WS, win a RoY, win 22 games to lead the majors, pitch for more then 2 years without an injury (prone problems he has), then lets talk?

How about Dontrelle start a game in the WS or pitch at least 4 innings before we bring up the WS argument?

Willis took that team to the world series more then any other player on the team. If he didnt come up and have the spark he did, the marlins dont make the playoffs at all. Or even start their incredible run.

I would take zambrano or willis over verlander or zumaya.

P-L
08-02-2006, 01:46 PM
I would rather have Joel Zumaya.

This kid is those two put together.

and I am happy with Verlander too!

how about zumaya pitch in the WS, win a RoY, win 22 games to lead the majors, pitch for more then 2 years without an injury (prone problems he has), then lets talk?

How about Dontrelle start a game in the WS or pitch at least 4 innings before we bring up the WS argument?

Willis took that team to the world series more then any other player on the team. If he didnt come up and have the spark he did, the marlins dont make the playoffs at all. Or even start their incredible run.

I would take zambrano or willis over verlander or zumaya.

I didn't say I would take Zumaya over the rest, I said Dontrelle did nothing in the WS.

nvot9
08-02-2006, 01:52 PM
Alright guys, I gotta confess, I was using this to help me with an MLB Dynasty Mock Draft that I'm organizing, and I went with Zambrano, but some how Dontrelle fell 2 more rounds and I went with him, so I got both, I got Zumaya as well... 8) :lol:

ruthlessrussian
08-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Love the D-Train, but Zambrano just looks scary on the mound. He looks like he's pissed off and ready to kick somebodies a** You gotta go big Z

RyanLeaf#1
08-02-2006, 02:19 PM
Im going with the D-Train on this one.

toonsterwu
08-03-2006, 11:32 PM
I may be accused of bias, but I'd rather have Zambrano. I'm not sold on Willis keeping it up over the next few years. Right now, I'm not sure it's really close. Zambrano's consistency of stellar pitching and his ability to work gives him a solid edge, IMO. If Willis bounces back next year, maybe there's a case, but his stuff isn't on par with Z's, and if hitters start seeing the ball better, as they have this year, then Willis just won't be effective unless he makes big changes.

TB_39
08-05-2006, 12:39 PM
How many pitchers also switch-hitting with power to both fields. He also stole his first base this year at 6'5 255+. How many pitchers (or players) do you see snapping the bat over their knee after striking out?

I have to go with Zambrano, regardless of what Willis has done since Z is my favourite baseball player. I love seeing the fire and emotion he has on the mound. Too many baseball players seem to lack emotion.

Smokey Joe
08-05-2006, 01:39 PM
I'd take Willis over Zambrainless anyday of the week.